St. Mary's County, MD Solar Task Force for St. Mary's County, 10 Mar 2021

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: 3/10/21 Solar Task Force for St. Mary's County

Description

No description was provided for this meeting.
If this is YOUR meeting, an easy way to fix this is to add a description to your video, wherever mtngs.io found it (probably YouTube).

A

Good afternoon, everyone, this is wednesday march 10th meeting of the solar task force.

A

I'd like to call this meeting to order and take the role.

A

So good afternoon my name is michael kane, chair of the solar task force and jeff shaw. President.

A

uh Brian thomas is not here: uh please note that he's present.

A

Mr mike thompson here and bonnie kellenberger.

A

Okay and we have less nat, so we have a a quorum.

A

Today uh and uh les snap is joining us via webex um and uh before we begin today, um I think we have.

A

A chance to finish up our uh some of the main work that we've been, I think, have been working.

A

Through and toward, and uh hopefully less can assist us getting through this today, as well as.

A

Some of the assistance of harry knight- um and before we begin, I guess uh we should approve the.

A

Minutes and before we move to any new business, so uh has everyone had a chance to review the minutes.

A

Okay, um any uh uh any uh changes.

A

It's just a one, a misspelling, that's a misspelling. The word percent, in the exception number two on.

B

The second page and um sandy's got that noted right. Thank you very much and without therefore.

A

Without objection, I propose that we uh accept these minutes with the proposed change motion.

A

Accepted minutes with the perspective in favor, aye, aye, okay, the minutes are accepted.

A

uh And so um new business harry you having some new, do you have some new business for us.

B

um Well, I can let you know that the temporary moratorium on seoul on utility scale, solar, was.

B

Approved by the county commissioners, yesterday, okay, thank you very much for that update.

A

We also, I noticed we received these uh nice uh recognition, um uh appreciation.

B

Oh yes, oops! If if if that was a thing on the agenda right, um so that's the annual.

B

Certificate of recognition from the county commissioners, um all the solar task force.

B

Members received one all right well, thank you. It's our pleasure to serve and to work on this.

A

All right um with that, uh I think we have a presentation by les to give us some.

A

uh Updates on what's happening in annapolis, that may uh both be relevant to renewable energy.

A

Development as well as perhaps to the task force so with that less I'll turn it over.

A

To you and to give us a an update, can't hear you less yeah, unless you're, uh muted.

A

Less, I cannot hear you.

C

I'm sorry, can you hear me yes now we can hear you.

C

Now you can hear me: okay,.

C

So I'm going to give you a brief update on what's happening in the 2021 maryland general.

C

Assembly session there's a number of pieces of legislation dealing directly with solar energy.

C

And climate change, I'm limiting my review to those bills that would directly affect.

C

Local governments and might weigh in on uh your deliberations here.

C

Also, I will provide a brief update on the rulemaking efforts of the public.

C

Service commission, so I believe I've submitted a powerpoint uh if that could be brought up now. Okay,.

D

A

Okay, we can see it uh less go ahead.

C

Okay yep: please proceed quick overview of the 2021 session uh right now. The.

D

Session started january 13th we're just over the halfway point of the 90 days.

C

And things are really starting to uh pick up and move forward. uh Critical dates are march.

C

16Th, that's the committee reporting courtesy date. That's the date that the committees in the.

D

House and the senate should report their bills out for consideration on the floor.

C

March 22nd is the opposite chamber: bill crossover date, that's the date where bills that are in the.

C

Senate to cross over to the house and any bills in the house that want to move should cross over.

C

To the senate, and then we're kind of in a sprint after that to the uh adjournment on april 12th.

C

This year the house is considered 1377 bills and six joint resolutions.

C

The senate's considered 963 bills, seven joint resolutions, uh that's.

C

Maybe very slightly on the high side, but not not overly, so it's within general averages.

C

Obviously, the coping situation has made things a little more challenging uh with virtual bill.

C

Hearings and other protections that are in place obviously to address the pandemic.

C

So, moving to the next slide I'll start going through specific pieces of legislation. First.

E

Up is house bill, 33 senate bill 76. This is the climate crisis and education act.

C

And basically, this would change the statewide target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

C

uh It would increase it to 60 of 2006 levels by 2030 achieving net zero emissions by 2045.

C

And then afterwards actually be net negative. It does establish a climate crisis initiative within.

D

The maryland department of the environment that we would work to address and implement various.

C

uh Climate uh change programs and reduction efforts and to help fund that it would establish.

B

Several new fees on fossil fuels and also certain new vehicle sales and registration.

C

The fees would be deposited into three separate funds, one of which is the current commission.

E

Fund to pay for uh k-12 public education, the second would go to a household and employ a.

E

Benefit fund to establish uh private efforts on climate change reduction and the third would be.

D

A climate crisis infrastructure fund which would address public infrastructure, need.

C

The maryland association of counties I'll provide you their position where they've taken it on bill.

C

Here they took a no position and these bills have been heard in their respective committees on.

C

February, 18th and february 2nd, uh so they may or may not move. There is another similar bill moving.

C

That I'll talk about in a moment, so I'm not sure these will actually go forward next slide. Please.

C

House bill 103 senate bill 90.. This makes numerous changes to the cpcn application process critically.

C

For local governments that would prohibit a local government from unreasonably withholding placing.

C

Conditions on or delaying the issuance of a site plan approval or any other permit or approval.

C

For an electric generating station or qualify generated lead line that has received a cpcn.

E

It also prohibits a local government from implementing a site plan approval.

C

Or any other permit or approval requirement that is inconsistent with or more stringent than the.

C

Licensing requirement of the ctcn that was issued mako obviously opposed this, given the significant.

C

Impact this would have a local government land use authority. uh Thankfully, both of these bills have.

C

Been withdrawn by their sponsors and so we're off the table through this session next slide, please.

D

So the task force looked at and considered uh language regarding um building code alterations.

C

To require new construction or renovations to be sold already, uh there are some challenges with.

C

This, but there are a couple of bills in the general assembly that would mandate it house.

D

Bill 469 senator 330 is the first of these and it basically requires any new construction and.

C

Certain major renovations of public buildings that have a roof expanse of at least 4 000 square feet.

C

And are funded by state funds to be designed and constructed to include the.

C

Maximum number of solar panels the roof can accommodate maple opposed this bill.

D

uh And each of the bills have had their hearings and their respective committees.

C

But to date, there's not been any movement forward on these bills.

C

However, we still got six days to the.

C

Committee reporting date so there's plenty of time for something to pop out.

C

Next bill, please.

D

So house bill 569 senate bill, 407 deals with net metering and this would simply double the.

C

Statewide limit currently 1500 megawatts to 3 000 megawatts mako supported the bill. The.

C

House bill has passed the house clean and it's before the senate finance committee.

C

uh For a hearing to be set uh senate, bill 414 is on second leader in the senate, so.

E

It is passed in the senate. uh There are some technical amendments to that. I would imagine.

C

They would be appended to the house bill when the senate finance committee takes that off.

C

So this bill looks like it's on its way to patent.

C

Next bill, please.

B

Okay house bill 583 bill 414. This is the climate solution act now act of 2021.. This does a lot.

C

Of things from, I think the task force perspective, there's four key issues here: one it increases the.

C

Greenhouse gas emission reductions goal 60 uh by 2030 and then mandates net zero emissions by 2040.

C

It would exempt certain community solar projects, uh those that are installed on rooftops parking.

C

Lots roadways or ground field site and that spur of at least more than half of their kilowatt hour.

C

Output goes to low or moderate income, customers from local government, personal property taxes.

C

It requires large commercial and residential buildings and before at least 25 000 square.

C

Feet uh to be constructed, so 40 of the roof area can support solar. That means obviously.

C

uh The weight of bearing is there as well as the roof being cleared, not obstructed in those areas.

C

Finally, it requires that any public schools are constructed after july 1st 2022 to be solar, ready.

C

Or to meet necessarily energy requirements, the bill does establish a net zero school loan fund.

C

To help meet the net zero requirements, if you want to go in that direction, mako did support.

C

This bill some amendments, one to remove the local uh personal property tax exemption mandate and two.

C

To modify the school cost care to better match how schools are currently funded.

C

uh The house bill is still in the committee to have a hearing on february 11th.

D

However, the senate bill has passed second leader uh in the senate, with with some amendments senate.

C

Okay, next is house bill, 584 senate bill 508, another net metering bill.

C

uh This specifically increases the capacity limit for eligible customer generators.

C

From the current two megawatt d5 naval law- and it also prohibits the psc uh from denying uh multiple.

C

Net needed solar facilities that are separate, contiguous lots owned by local governments.

C

Solely because they exceeded the five megawatt generating capacity, this will allow for some.

C

uh County or municipal projects that are aggregative aggregate projects and separate lots.

C

That are connected. uh You go forward in a larger size than they currently produce, though nato has.

C

Supported this legislation, and both of the bills have had their deals varied on their respective.

C

Next, okay house bill 777 senate bill 417. This affects the power plant research program and how.

C

Applications for cpcns are handled. This is more at the state level, but it would.

B

Say for a project where cpcn application has been filed, it puts some time limits of 60 days on both.

C

The department of natural resources and the department of the environment to complete.

D

Certain studies and investigations and then have to present their findings at a public hearing.

C

Held by the public service commission, they then have 15 days after that. Hearing has.

E

Alasked to jointly present the final recommendations on the project to the psn.

C

Chair, so this is tidying up the timeline, uh giving a little shorter and more defined period for.

C

The state agencies get involved, mako took a no position on this because there really is going.

C

To direct local government impact, uh the house has passed uh household seven, seven seventh, amendment.

C

And the senate heard there versus a bill that hasn't taken any actions yet next, please.

C

Okay, uh now I'm going to turn that was it on legislation, I'm going to briefly walk through.

C

Wherever you're at with the pse rule making, uh as you know, the psc has initiated a rule.

C

Making to change how epcn regulations and the application process work. This is based on a.

E

Recommendation from the governor's task force on renewable energy development and fighting.

C

As well as some pressure from the maryland general assembly, some interest from legislators to.

C

Work on condensing or making the process more efficient, uh the rulemaking was based in part.

C

But not in totality over some concerns raised about project delays at the local government level.

C

About projects having to go through the local government, zoning council.

C

Pfc reviewed the regulations and supported the following proposals. We basically require a.

C

Utility scale solar development, either to obtain local zoning approval for a proposed project.

C

Essentially, going through whatever process a county or municipality has in place currently or.

C

At least 90 days prior to them filing a cpc, an application, they have to hold a meeting.

C

With the affected local government and provide a draft environmental review document a properly.

C

Sized conceptual plan and information on the cpcn process, if a developer does that and provides that.

C

Information to the local government, the local government has 90 days to receive review that.

C

Information and then submit a preliminary report to the pse. That includes the statement on whether.

E

They think the project is consistent with the local zoning. It's consistent with a comprehensive.

C

Plan and provide any suggestions for improving the application prior to the filing for a cpcn.

C

So this is all pre-pcn if your local government does not respond within the 90 days. The developer.

C

Must provide documentation showing their efforts to contact the local government.

C

And the developers information on the project's resistance to the global zoning.

C

After the 90-day pre-application period, the developer either formally files a cpc.

C

An application with the pse or can delegate their authority to a public utility law judge.

C

And once the cpc is filed, it also says the power plant research program has 45 days.

C

To issue a determination on whether the application is completely not.

C

That would break that time frame up considerably now. This does not in any way change or limit.

C

What a local government can do uh in terms of participating as a party in interest.

C

Or offering other uh testimony during the cpcn process, but it does obviously.

C

Significantly change whether or not a developer uh has to go through the local zoning process.

C

Next slide, please.

C

So uh the psc accepted comments through a deadline of february 5th mako did submit.

C

Comments, they made three main recommendations. One was to require early and consistent communication.

C

Between developers and local jurisdictions, two uh was to include evidence of participation.

C

Local zoning improvement process as part of the completeness checklist and three uh to say that.

C

Inspected, local governments should automatically be made an intervening party upon request.

C

So the pse had these and numerous other comments that were submitted.

C

They are reviewing those, and the next step will be a date set through our legislators.

E

Hearing on the proposed homeowner revision.

C

So next slide, please.

C

So that was uh a dense information dump on what's happening right now during the session.

C

Happy to go back if you have any questions or want more details on any particular.

C

Bill um so I wanted to just ask.

A

If they're um from from what I understood you to say less, that, um although these are obviously will.

A

Have implications for the development of solar in st mary's county most of what was discussed.

A

Really doesn't impact the work that the solar task force has already done in the sense of the task.

A

Force recommendations, at least to this point, not anticipating what we'll say be said today,.

A

Are consistent largely with these, uh these changes that are going on uh with perhaps the possible.

A

Exception of uh you know that that you know, of course, we're making these recommendations so.

A

Local governments can uh st mary's county government can have a say on both uh uh on utility.

A

Scale, solar and other other projects, so is that a fair characterization of of some of the findings.

C

I think that's a fair assessment, mr chairman, the only area that I would immediately say could be.

C

Affected by and more by, the psc rulemaking would be how you treat um applications for utility if.

C

You want them to go through special exception or something of that nature. um You can still.

C

Recommend that and assuming these recommendations, don't get changed significantly from what the psd.

C

Initially proposed uh a developer could still go through that, but the developers can also say.

C

That's too complicated: I don't want to go through that process as long as they meet the pre-cpc and.

C

Application meeting requirements with the local government they can take that route and pit.

A

All right, thank you. Thank you for that response. Any questions from task force, members for less.

F

I had two and uh roll the bump into one less, and you may not know this or have it before you.

F

But house bill 33 and house bill 583. Do you happen to remember or know.

F

The fiscal notes or the fiscal impacts that were associated with those bills.

F

If not, I can look them up this evening, sometimes 583. I do have that one. That's the climate.

C

Solutions now, after 2021, okay uh and the general estimate is um the state level, the finances cannot.

C

There can't be a reliable estimate made uh state expenditures of all fund types will increase.

C

Significantly beginning in fy 2022, uh the bill does reject redirect funding from several existing.

C

Special funds to offset some of these costs for the local effect. Also, it's hard to make a reliable.

C

Estimate, given the complexity of the bill and there's a lot in there, that I didn't even touch on.

C

But local personal property tax revenues would decrease potentially significantly.

C

uh Given the exemption that is put on as more community stolen projects coming online.

F

Okay, thank you.

A

Okay, jeff um mike any questions. No questions for mike bonnie.

A

Do you have any questions for less on the bills in annapolis, I do not okay. Thank you. Thank you. Les.

A

For the update- uh and yes, indeed a lot going on in annapolis- that I think illustrates the interest.

A

Both in annapolis, as well as of course in st mary's county on on renewable energy and its.

A

Implications for uh at 2030 and beyond and with that I was going to move on to the.

A

Of the business that we have and wanted to uh begin uh with, uh community solar we've talked.

A

About it, I just want to be sure that we're all on the same page, on these recommendations, so.

A

If you look, I would invite all the task force members to go and look at the recommendations.

A

That have been provided by less these are updated and reflect our conversations that we had.

A

uh And so I'm going to propose that we I'm going to just read each of them and then at the end, if.

A

There's any concerns, as I read them, or if you have any feedback I'll, certainly request that feedback.

A

But most of this as I've reviewed, it reflects our discussion from the last meeting and then when we.

A

Go through this, if, if we need to we'll continue to table anything that needs to be tabled.

A

And then we'll vote on the ones that we go through? Okay. So that's how we'll proceed.

A

So allowed zones. We talked about this for community solar, that these would be classified.

A

uh Solar projects be allowed in all zones, and it's classified as a utility minor project.

A

And I think we agreed to that last week. That was my recollection.

A

The application process that community solar projects be treated as permitted use.

A

The setback requirements the task force recommends that the community solar projects.

A

Be subject to the existing setbacks, requirements for each applicable zone.

A

So, uh as you recall, last time, uh harry went through different zones at with different.

A

Setback requirements associated with each of those zones and uh basically they would still.

A

They would apply as a utility minor project to this yeah, no different from any other building.

B

Proposed in those zones, that's correct, okay, so it's consistent with the existing uh zoning.

A

Applica, each of the applicable zones, the screening requirements we did amend.

A

And discussed a bit- and I think these were friendly amendments put forth- that task force.

A

Recommends that type a buffer requirements be applied to community solar projects.

A

With the following modification, the buffer be altered to 20 feet and that additional.

A

Understory vegetation be substituted for canopy trees, where the placement.

A

Of canopy trees could negatively affect the energy generation capacity of that project.

A

And that, I think, reflects the discussion we had and, of course feel free to jump in at any point.

A

Task force members, if you have a concern, we tabled this requirement, but we did discuss it.

A

And I think this does reflect our discussion so I'll mention this: a developer of a community.

A

Solar project on decommissioning: this is the decommissioning on number six.

A

We discussed this and decided that they should submit a decommissioning plan to the county.

A

That describes how the site will be restored to its original state prior to the construction of.

A

The community solar project within one year after the community solar project ceases operation.

A

Or is deemed abandoned, this plan should uh should be subject to county approval and associated.

A

And I think the one thing that we sort of suggested here um was uh we we waived. I'm.

A

Not sure we waived the bond requirement here and that's not contained in here.

A

Okay, the next uh is other requirements. Community solar projects should not unreasonably restrict.

A

Or limit historical or scenic view sheds, the commissioners should also consider whether.

A

To require a community solar project to submit to the county, an operation and maintenance agreement.

A

For stormwater management and vegetation upkeep, the agreement should include a bond.

A

Or other financial agreement acceptable to the county to ensure proper enforcement.

A

Special permits- and that is, uh is that typical as well um mr knight, uh this other requirements.

A

Potentially, submitting a bond uh to upkeep or as for stormwater management or vegetation, upkeep.

A

um So, there's typically a bond required during storm water management, construction to guarantee.

B

It's constructed to the approved specifications, then, when the when it passes, inspection that.

B

Bond is released. What assures inspection and maintenance is a a recorded covenant against the.

B

Land, if you will an inspections and maintenance agreement is recorded against the land that gives.

B

The county, the right to enter upon the land, to do stormwater inspections and um and enforce.

B

That maintenance be done, should it fail inspection, and so that would fall under the other financial.

A

Agreement acceptable to the county under that clause, so thank you. Special permits required.

A

The task force does not believe any additional or special permits beyond those currently necessary.

A

For a permitted use project should be required uh and nine and ten there's no changes there.

A

We have eleven and twelve, so we talked a little bit about potential incentives for brownfield.

A

Gray field and fill in as well as this was 11 and 12 taxation recommendations where we do have some.

A

Language here uh on potential incentives for brownfield grayfield, we saw the bill.

A

That's been passed that perhaps is that at the statewide and if not an incentive, certain kinds.

A

Of encouragement to do that is there anything else that we want to say here, mr thompson, I know.

A

You've uh with uh have helped us here on this and you've. Just we've talked about it right.

A

I'm not sure that without uh we we discussed this in the.

A

Past how we can do this without a fiscal implication for the county.

A

Any any thoughts here uh with any uh task force, member.

A

On any incentives here that could be provided.

G

I don't have any.

A

Yeah I so I don't think we we have any right now, and I think this should be uh unless uh a task.

A

Force member makes a proposal. We should strike this. uh We did have language last didn't we have.

A

Language that the uh uh prior to this uh in in uh uh I think in encouraging the commissioners that.

A

Was that was kind of all, and this goes to number 12, perhaps the county. This is a little bit more.

A

Detailed 12, where the county may wish to consider the creation of a payment in lieu of taxes program.

A

Or other fiscal incentives for community solar located located desirable areas, I'm not sure that.

A

Let me let me try to read that again make sure it's uh it's it's correct. The county may wish.

A

To consider the creation of a payment in lieu of taxes, potentially it says pilot program or.

A

Other fiscal incentives for community solar projects located, I think, in desirable areas.

A

We need in or that address the energy needs of economically disadvantaged communities.

C

I think yes, mr chairman, and I agree.

C

That an end is needed there, where you indicated.

C

What I could do is um expand this language out to know that some potential desirable.

C

Areas could be brownfield gray fields or uh where it serves as infill development.

A

That's, uh I think, that's consistent. That would be consistent with what.

A

I think you're trying to get at and it also would take care of number 11.

A

Since this would be a kind of suggestion right, an encouragement to the to the commissioners.

A

Any thoughts by uh by the task force, members on uh number 12 and potentially striking 11 making.

A

12 sort of the main suggestion that we provide on incentives to community for community solar.

G

So I guess my comment would be.

G

My very limited experience of payment in lieu of taxes is generally people make the.

G

Payment and not go through the complication of doing all the things we want done, so it.

G

It kind of gets you off the hook on this, depending on how it's applied and how it's worded. So I'm.

G

I am concerned that you would have payment in lieu of taxes.

G

um If we're trying to accomplish what what we decided to do, which is a kind of incentive of.

A

Some sort, you you, don't see it as a really uh um you're saying that it's not a real.

A

Not a positively good incentive for for to encourage people any other thoughts. Mr shaw, no I'm.

F

Fine with the current language bonnie, do you have any thoughts on on these uh encouragement here.

H

uh I I do not les, I know you wanted to.

A

Add in something here, could you you want to uh please go ahead.

C

So, um at the end of the first sentence on number 12, I would put the inn in and.

C

Located in desirable areas and then I would add a second sentence.

C

That would read the county should consider brownfields great fields.

C

And infill development sites as areas where to focus community solar development.

A

uh I think that's a I mean, that's a good recommendation. Do you have any thoughts.

A

uh On this payment in lieu of taxes, uh I take it. That's a that would be a a pilot.

A

The payment in lieu of taxes- okay, do you have any thoughts about that less as an encouragement.

C

So I do know that a number of other counties for utility scale and less so for community, because.

C

Community is still very new, have adopted a pilot option.

C

The recommendation here is simply that the county may wish to consider.

C

So I think that is saying: take a look at the financials.

C

uh Or other fiscal incentives, so it's not limiting it into a pilot or it's not even saying that a pilot has to be done.

C

I do know other counties have been satisfied with how they set up and implemented their.

C

Pilot programs, uh it may be the task force- may wish to reach out to one of.

C

Those counties, I believe, caroline, has done a pilot and has definitely been happy with.

C

It there's a few others out there that you can get a little more information.

A

Yeah, I think we're not ready yet to to approve this, so I'll suggest that.

A

We table this one more time until we get that information and finish this on the next meeting.

A

And then on 11, I would suggest at least at this time that we eliminate this since.

A

We don't really have anything else, so that will that'll be something that we eliminate.

A

So uh I want to move then uh that we strike 11 that would table 12 and that.

A

That we approve recommendations 2 through 8 for community solar.

F

A

A

A

Let's uh I've, let's take a vote on this now, um so all those in favor of accepting recommendations.

A

Two through eight for the community solar, say aye all right, all those opposed. Okay. I that's.

A

So everyone was in favor of this, so uh all these, I think we're just about done. Then the community.

A

Solar with the exception of number 12, which we've tabled pending some additional information.

A

Thank you for for that now, utility scale solar, um so we need to go through this. We already had.

A

One, the definition- this is the standard definition uh that's used in.

A

The state it's consistent with, uh what's what's generally used, um two, we, I think we.

A

uh Developer notification: this was there.

A

The county should urge utility scale solar project developers to communicate with the county.

A

As early as possible- and I think that's certainly something that we we've been discussing throughout.

A

I think we also talked about integration of developer concerns and the.

A

Pjm, since these are greater than uh two two megawatts these systems, the utility scale.

A

uh It means that really pjm will have to weigh in on this right, as well as in the cpcn process.

A

uh Isn't that correct, mr shaw? That is correct. Okay, so I think we can.

A

We do not need to really we can strike integration of developer concerns.

A

Less and I don't think we need that in there any longer.

C

Okay, mr chairman, I have that and if we could go back to recommendation too for just a moment which.

C

Recommendation there had been some discussion about number two: the developer notification.

C

Communication requirements and perhaps uh and I'm not sure if this is for harry or someone else but.

C

Potentially recommend or identify a county contact that would be used for the developers.

A

Thank you. That's a friendly amendment to this harry. Do you have any suggestions? Should we put.

A

In there a point of contact in here, yes by all means we can put the department of land.

B

Use growth management with the main number; okay that, let's uh so moved and I think uh that's a.

A

Friendly amendment less you heard that I mean do you: do you think it should be more staff specific.

B

Division of the department- I I don't think I mean I think uh you you would know, and uh I.

A

Don't think it has to be too specific since people come and go but the uh but but it's helpful to say.

B

um Department of land use growth management as opposed to public works and transportation.

B

That's correct, yeah, all right, so I think that's a good recommendation.

A

Yep, so we'll put that in there please do that uh less! Thank you for.

A

Reminding us of that and and I had that written down but I've I've forgotten it.

A

And so les, do you want to talk about number four right? um We had you know uh where aloud. I think in.

A

The in the commercial, um we talked about sort of historic areas right, uh any kind of uh you.

A

Know other kinds of of uh I think in commercial zones here uh you know we wanna, we just wanna, be.

A

More specific, can you say, can you talk about this a little bit? We did talk about it um uh less about.

A

Where this should be allowed and and as you know, we've been concerned about in particular.

A

uh You know historic preservation. We've also were concerned about in the past prime farmland, uh but.

A

Where to allow now, and the zoning.

C

So I think from the discussions of the task force, you would want to treat this.

C

As a utility major abuse, you, you traded community solar as a utility miner used.

C

And I think utility scale obviously is at a much greater size.

C

Most based on how other counties have done this most counties allow it in industrial zones.

C

They also allow it in at least some residential agricultural zones, uh so house, st.

C

Mary's categorizes that and some counties do allow utility scale to be cited in their.

C

More heavy or dense commercial zones, but some many many do not so I think that's.

C

Really up to uh and harry can weigh in here on what the appropriate zone classifications would be.

C

You also have the question here. I think of.

C

How you want to treat uh agricultural, residential or agricultural areas.

C

That have uh ag preservation easements on them and if you want to somehow limit or restrict that.

C

We will have a discussion coming up on recommendation five of how.

C

It's done by right committee to use special perception.

C

And then the recommendation six will be any type of individual or aggregate size on projects. So.

C

Those aspects of the discussion are probably wait until we get to those recommendations.

A

Harry, do you want to say anything here um about some of these.

A

Residential zones- and the other thing that we haven't said is anything is about the the.

A

Location the base right and that uh that location around the around the base- I don't know if we need.

A

To say it here uh that two-mile, I I you know, uh we have that um circumference around the base.

A

On many of the maps that we talked about just the beginning of the task force, so yes, and so the.

B

And, of course, we tasked the chesapeake conservancy with doing our solar, citing report, which actually.

B

Was just finalized today and distributed to the um task force members so that you'll.

B

Be able to review it um and understand it in greater detail and have a presentation by the.

B

Chesapeake conservancy next month, um if you so desire now um that so my concept in trying to.

B

Identify where utility scale solar is allowed is to make use of that solar sighting study.

B

And the map that um they created, which um is um has already identified actual parcels.

B

Based on the um I'm going to call it um a selection criteria, um one is within a mile of.

B

The utility lines, another is not in a rural legacy area, so yeah like you, can name the things that.

B

Steer you towards the preferred locations and those things that exclude the preferred location.

B

So if we were to rattle off you know, what's exclusion zones, the rural legacy areas the.

B

Properties that are more than 50 percent forested properties that have prime soils. We have the.

B

Presentation from the resource conservation, people there's two types of soils: they talk about.

B

One is so one would be exclude properties that have more than 50 percent of a certain.

B

Classification of the soil, another is more than 75 percent of another. You mentioned the navy base.

B

We could propose a specific distance from the navy base. Two miles is what the navy suggested as the.

B

Closest but then they also have a 10 mile concern and they reserve the right to look at anything.

B

That is proposed in st mary's county, so those are all the exclusion areas, the the local st mary's.

B

County airport did not ask for any exclusion from building around the local airport, um so.

B

You know the list that's mentioned residential agricultural industrial zones. Should we consider.

B

Commercial, so you know is, is, is solar, a bad neighbor to other commercial um users um and.

B

Would it prevent other commercial development on the vacant parcel next to a solar field, so.

B

I I don't really see any negativities there if we, if so getting back to the solar siding map, they.

B

Offered up two classifications of where it should go optimal, which is already.

B

The built environment, every existing roof, every existing parking lot, every degraded.

B

Property every publicly owned property, that's what they call optimal and you're. Probably I.

B

Mean you could potentially get some utility scale if it's broken into individual segments that are.

B

Going to be networked somehow so then that leaves us the preferred ground mounted opportunities.

B

Per the solar siding study and the preferred ground mounted again are based on being within a.

B

Mile of the infrastructure, at least five acres in size.

B

Not in the rural legacy, not 50 forested, not in the critical area, not um with the good soils.

B

Does it matter if one of those parcels is residentially zoned, I mean that's a consideration.

B

Is a solar field, a bad neighbor to some houses, next door, or um or vice versa? If I have a solar.

B

Field building houses on the vacant parcel next door. Is that going to interfere? So I.

B

Would tend to um want to say it's allowed where it is identified as optimal or preferred in our.

B

Final version of our solar sighting map.

A

Thank you and and the question I think I have in in terms of uh just operations here. If that would.

A

Be possible to put that in uh in language in this uh in this or we would need to.

A

A couple questions come come up or we would need to sort of list some of the some of the areas.

A

Where it would not be permitted, and we would need to do that- if only to indicate it to the.

A

The commissioners that that was our recommendation, the other thing you asked about neighbors.

A

Since this is zone since we're considering right that this is going to be um classified.

A

I don't know if we've gotten to it yet, but as a major right as a utility major that will affect.

A

How it interacts with the other adjacent zones such as residential, and that will be required.

A

To put in certain kinds of buffers in that case, uh because it's a utility major is that correct.

B

Well, yes, if we, you know, follow the the standard zoning pattern that you determine, what um what.

B

The compatibility of the uses are, and do you need to provide buffer yards to.

B

um Make one more compatible to the other or you know, maybe even more palatable to the other, so.

B

With the community scale, you arrived at a certain buffer yard that would be required.

B

When it's adjacent to certain uses and so that same table can be used to determine which.

B

Uses are less compatible and therefore need more of a buffer yard. Okay, thank you.

A

Perhaps other uh members need to weigh in here yeah I've got um when you say: half forested.

G

If you have 100 acres and half of it's forested, does that eliminate the whole hundred acres or.

G

Just a forested portion well that eliminated that if well let's say I have 100 acres and it's 55.

B

Forested that eliminated that 100-acre parcel from the um listing of a preferred location.

G

I wonder why what's? Is there a rationale for that? I don't understand. Well, the rationality was that.

B

They had to come up with certain criteria to apply to the geospatial information available.

B

And and you know, and basically sift out the chaff and arrive at the um the quality land.

B

And so those were the parameters they set up now you know it could be.

B

Adjusted but we also could um have someone say, I know it's not a preferred location per your map.

B

But I would like you to consider that parcel to be allowed just the same yep. Thank you. Bonnie.

H

um Yeah, I was just. I was gonna type that in with what uh harry said.

H

They had to go with some sort of a metric to run together. They weren't going to look at each parcel.

A

um So, let's make sure I know what you're suggesting so that we can definitely.

A

Put this in and represent your thinking on this, so you're.

A

uh You're agreeing with um mike's suggestion that, uh potentially um in the case of.

A

Of a wooded area of 50 50 greater than 50 percent forested, that that be considered uh despite the.

A

Fact that it might be uh not be in the preferred, so that would be one of them that we would contain.

A

We would call out and say that should also be permitted so to speak or allowed.

A

For utility skills.

H

And so so right, what we're doing here is our ideal, perfect situation. I mean any parcel right. Can.

H

They can run through the process. What we're trying to do is say hey. This is our.

H

This is best bet sort of situation right. I'm sorry would you repeat that.

H

So the purpose of the map is to identify identify parcels where the process is going to be.

H

Easy and minimal objection correct, that's it. I think it was to the the map was to identify.

A

You know the uh exclude areas that were uh we we may not want to consider putting.

A

Utility scale, and some of that was in preferred agricultural areas with.

A

Good soils as well as perhaps you know where we have preservation easements and there were, I think.

A

Even some wetlands there was a lot of different categories there, and so uh the map was intended to.

A

Sort of basically show all the areas and, of course the other consideration was within one mile of.

A

uh I think a a transmission line, uh and so that was really the idea is to sort of get all the.

A

Acreage that really could, where it could, you know, be reasonable to build um uh utility scale. Solar.

H

Yes, where, where it's easier, yes to occur, but as with anything in this county right, if you've got a.

H

Piece of property- and you run through the proper processes or permitting or special permits or.

H

Exemptions or whatever you you can pretty much do what you want until like there's an actual author.

A

Right, I'm not sure I understand I'm sorry, bonnie.

H

um So, let's take this parcel 100 acres, 55 percent of it forested somebody does want to do utilities.

H

Forested side, but it doesn't fall within our yes go. Do it solar task force, but.

H

That doesn't mean that they couldn't start a process of hey. I don't think this quite fits.

H

I think that I should be do I need to separate out the property.

A

Harry do you want you want to weigh in on that harry well yeah, and so I think mike made a perfect.

B

Suggestion and I think bonnie is agreeing with his suggestion that my initial description of.

B

They gave us number one optimal and number two preferred ground mount opportunities.

B

Well, what about that 45 acres! That's part of a hundred acre parcel that is already clear.

B

And so, if it's not the quality soil, if it's not in the rural legacy, so I think we do have.

B

Need to have this third option so option. One is optimal option two is preferred ground mounted.

B

Opportunity and the option three: is these others? The challenge is how to classify those others.

B

um But I think that's a good suggestion yeah. I I think I understood bonnie to be.

A

Asking that, if, if uh the someone wanted to put up utility scale in something other than optimal.

A

Or preferred, or perhaps even other than the and the forested over 50 forested could they do so.

A

Given these suggestions that we're making to the commissioners assuming the commissioners accepted.

A

It yeah well, that's the key is what what are the suggestions? What are the recommendations so.

B

You know my my initial discussion to try to help you arrive at your recommendation. Is.

B

um Rather than look at the zones that we have in the zoning ordinance is now, let's.

B

Look at the solar siding map that we've, um you know, engaged the chesapeake conservancy.

B

To provide their solar sighting map if we take their um parameters and their recommendation.

B

It would be the optimal or the preferred ground mounted, but that would leave out some parcels.

B

That might still be acceptable depending on what the recommendations are right. Yeah right.

A

And we've identified one: is there anything else that uh any uh task force members want to mention.

F

Yeah, um I do have slight concerns with that. If we're referencing the solar sighting map.

F

Into some level of zoning ordinance that now opens the entire study to public.

F

Opinion public input. I think we need to open it because when everything went through zoning, it.

F

Was open for public input? So if we're going to use this to give final determination like this.

F

I think we're going to have to open that up to scrutiny and input as well. If we.

F

Stick away from what we know today, as all the zones within the current zoning wall.

B

Well, that was exactly why we had the commissioners approve the temporary.

B

Moratorium is because we are going to open up the zoning ordinance. um These recommendations.

B

That the solar task force arrives at in june will then be um taken and turned into proposed. Zoning.

B

Text amendments for the ordinance and they will have to go through the public hearing process.

B

um Before we and I'm sorry bonnie, I cut you off, but just one more thing about the map. Our.

B

Director's recommendation is that the solar siding map not become part of our adopted zoning maps.

B

So we want to reference, and- and so this will be another legal challenge- we want to reference the.

B

Saint mary's county solar sighting map- we now own it we can. We can tweak it different from the map.

B

That I mean the chesapeake conservancy built it for us, but but we now own it and we can um massage.

B

It into our final version and in the regulations, the concept is, we would reference the saint mary's.

B

County solar sighting map, but not make that map part of the official zoning maps. Because then any.

B

Massaging we think we need to do in the future would have to go through the total zoning map.

B

Adoption process- that's what I was getting to yeah, so it does sound like we will need to really also.

A

Provide additional granularity on what is being excluded uh in these in this discussion here.

A

And it will have to be put sort of not just simply refer to the map, but rather.

A

Talk about a lot of the zones right or a lot of the areas that could potentially be right in the.

A

Exclusion zone so to speak or in the exclusion areas, so I do think we might need to go through.

A

That uh and make sure that all the task force members understand what's being excluded. Obviously,.

A

We haven't gone through this exact this uh report, yet so uh we still have time to do that, but it.

A

May be worthwhile less for us to work through that to sort of try to characterize some of the things.

A

That are being excluded for certain and some of the criteria that they use so that we can put this.

A

Into a, uh I think, into use language that everyone can understand uh the task force members, but also.

A

The commissioners about what's being included and what is being recommended to be excluded.

G

So um the the circumferential delineation, or whatever around the navy base.

G

I would think we would want to leave that open to the recommendation of the navy, as opposed to.

G

A some strict limit, because two years from now they may be saying we we want forward with it.

G

You know so let them have that play rather than us, incorporating something that they've said.

G

Right now that may change tomorrow, I'm I feel perfectly. I think, that's a reasonable suggestion.

A

um They did suggest right what they want it now, so that I'm not sure. Maybe we could.

A

Put that in in some ways that uh current or or put in uh what they suggested now.

A

Would we be able to put in some some language that allows them to amend that.

A

uh Or would that have to be uh um mr knight? Could it be that that could not be a kind of.

A

A variable in there that they would be allowed to change, or could that be something that uh we.

A

Could put language in that would allow the navy to change their view on where a solar could go.

A

With respect to the base and change their mind, basically, well certainly you know when it comes to.

B

Arriving at our version of the solar recommended solar sighting map for st mary's county.

B

um If the navy wanted to provide input that they think the line needs to move, we would be able.

B

To move the line, the question is whether or not that is um an officially adopted map through the.

B

Zoning map process, um which we recommend it not be so that we can make those adjustments without.

B

Going to public hearing truth is um you know if the navy wants to you know flex their muscles.

B

On anything, you know, they can certainly um make it difficult for local government to give an approval.

B

Because they, they are so important to us right, right and- and the last thing we want to do is.

B

Is ruffle their feathers or not provide what they need to do, but so I mean they were a bit I'll, be.

B

Honest I mean I felt like they were a little bit non-committal. They mentioned the two miles. They.

B

Mentioned the 10 miles, but they really didn't want to offer us a map to incorporate with a.

B

Line, so is it two miles from the runway? Is it two miles from the property line? I'd have to go back.

B

And but by all means we have a very open dialogue with their um local planning liaison, sabrina hecht.

B

And we will continue that um vanessa price is with her staff, sabrina just left on deployment.

B

And will be back, but vanessa is communicating with us in the meantime yeah bonnie can I jump.

H

In real quick sure, so the they didn't give us a map, because all it is is a diet. They just did a.

H

Buffer from the center point of each installation, which is why, when you look at webster.

H

So much more public property is incorporated versus what you see with pax river.

H

It's a generic response to a requirement that didn't wasn't in place until a few years ago.

H

um So the the navy wouldn't the middle for that and again you know he brought the the.

H

Navy is going to do what the baby wants to do to stop anything once it's at a particular process.

H

Depending on the flavor of the administration, um the other thing, though, that I did want to.

H

Bring up with this, is that and- and maybe this is I'm coming at this from a different mindset-.

H

There are already um little tools in place to exclude and preserve land.

H

Conservation, easements and agriculture easiness. So if somebody wants to exclude.

H

Their property from development, they already have the tools in place to do that.

H

So in my mind, what we were doing with this map was: we were identifying optimal locations, not.

H

Excluding locations and excluding people from using their public property as they seek it right.

A

Yeah, I think that that that's true and and trying to give recommendations we're still then.

A

uh I think we will be in the position of having to say, however,.

A

uh Where this is going to be permitted or uh uh where this is allowed, so you know.

A

And uh I think yeah it's still zoning recommendations. Okay, what's that.

H

Yeah, it's it's still. Zoning recommendations permissible uses. We already have processes.

H

In place that you know, if you want exemptions or whatever yeah, and I think bonnie makes a.

B

Very good point moving forward, it's it's much more um appropriate and positive to say we're.

B

We're identifying preferred locations and um you know and not use the word- exclusion sound yeah. So.

B

Here's the preferred those are the not preferred right and then also to emphasize, what's already.

A

Being excluded so to speak by law right um where people are uh development would not be permitted.

H

Yes, so we'll already have consequences or agriculture.

H

Or you know critical area buffer right so as much as we do.

B

As much as we don't want to use the word exclusion, um the comprehensive plan, which is already adopted.

B

By saint mary's county government, through the public hearing and community involvement process,.

B

uh Includes key elements about the preservation of the rural character, um farmland and so on.

B

Those are our mata penai um and hunter creek. I believe it's called.

B

Rural legacy areas, so, um while I wouldn't- um and so I while I I won't call them.

B

The exclusion zone they they have been mapped um as not preferred locations.

B

So when we, you know, when we move forward, saying here's an allowable zone, it's not going to be.

B

In the rural legacy area, all right right, I do think we need additional, obviously additional.

A

Language here less that goes through some of these categories a little bit and incorporates in.

A

This, the um I think, the recommendations by mike and and bonnie uh and that we try to.

A

uh uh At least capture some of the areas that we, you know where it's clear uh by law, that bonnie.

A

Suggested they're really not permitted right, but then to uh somehow capture the areas where.

A

We want to be able to allow this and make it kind of a little bit clearer to the commissioners.

B

So I can definitely take a shot at based on all of the task members input and and connect with.

E

Mr knight, before next meeting, to come up with a some broad outline language that will encapsulate.

E

That focusing on preferred areas as opposed to exclusion areas but still know you know where.

C

Law basically says you can't go uh now. uh I would also say one other potential area that I'm not.

C

And you may or may not want to consider it separately, but that would be the um issue of.

C

Do you want your curry scale to go in your growth area, uh whether it's your priority.

C

Funding area or other county or municipality with identified growth areas, and I think, given.

C

The scope and potential size of utility scale, solar, and especially on residential properties,.

C

If you have a municipality, that's outlined with uh future growth areas, an authentication plan.

C

The county has worked with them to approve that and then suddenly a utility scale, solar project.

E

Is um set to place right in the middle of that future growth zone that could potentially be.

C

Very disruptive uh to the planned growth of that site, so that may be something you want to consider.

C

um Other counties and municipalities have actually had a couple of instances where that's happened.

E

They've had to work around it, and that was prior to having any type of formal identified. Zombies.

A

um I agree with you that we should consider that, and maybe we should.

A

uh Have that in there a little bit and have a discussion about that next time,.

A

Unless uh people have a thinking about it right now about how we should deal with this.

A

I'm good with including it okay, okay, so let's include that a discussion of that as well. Less.

B

Chairman, would you want me to share any of those um zone tables absolutely I actually.

A

Reviewed them, but before I think it is going to be very helpful to have that.

A

To walk through this kind of carefully so that we can, uh we can both explain it to the commissioners.

A

And also to ourselves that what what we are recommending and what we're not recommending.

B

Yeah, but what I meant is um like right now this evening, do you want to look at those use tables.

B

Sure we did with community minor sure sure to remind us.

B

Let me see, um because we've talked about the solar siding map, but now to actually get to the.

B

Other zones, the zoning, the zoning classifications, yeah.

B

So here was um utility.

B

Major use intensity high, as opposed to utility minor, and while les has incorporated this.

B

I was under the impression we might actually create two new use types. One would be.

B

Solar minor and solar major just to separate them out from these other utilities,.

B

Because these other utilities wouldn't have that special buffer yard.

A

Okay, I see what you're saying so we'll need to do that. You're saying you know.

B

From this point forward, rather than call them utility, major and utility minor call them solar.

B

Major and solar money- okay, that's a that's a good point! So if we compare a proposed solar major to a.

B

Current utility major: it's a high use intensity, which is going to affect the buffer yard table.

B

It's a conditional use in the rural preservation zone. Would you remind me uh what that means again.

A

Yeah, so conditional use um means it would go to the board of appeals for uh public hearing.

B

To see if there are any special conditions, they think need to be placed upon the project. Okay,.

B

You know other conditional uses are mining operations, um um major industrial operations.

B

In the rural zone, uh so anyway it it would not be a permitted use in the rsc and rcl. These are rural.

B

Service center and rural commercial limited- these are at our small village centers and crossroads.

B

They're already occupied by existing minor commercial uses, the rlt is a transitional.

B

Low-Density residential zone between the rural preservation, district.

B

And the um residential low density, so there there can be large tracks of undeveloped land.

B

In those zones so while they're intended for low density residential, you know they.

B

That you know, maybe they would be well used for solar and would not be.

B

Incompatible to the houses next door, um the but again they would be conditional uses. So the.

B

Houses next door would be invited to the public hearing to weigh in you can see. Then it's not.

B

Allowed in these other zones, but again that's utility major, and so these other zones.

B

Are are um residential, medium density, where we're trying to crowd houses in more.

B

Tightly packed in the development district in the lexington park, development district.

B

Residential high density, residential neighborhood conservation- these are our.

B

Existing subdivisions of over 25 lots that have a certain character. um The residential mixed.

B

Use zone, so this is going to be residential and commercial. Mixed uses, village mixed use.

B

Town center mixed use, so villages are like calloway town centers are charlotte hall.

B

Corridor mixed use, these are along the highways.

B

You know, california is and great mills road have areas of corridor mixed use, mixed use, high density.

B

Residential mixed use, medium density, residential mixed-use, low-density, residential um lci.

B

Is honestly a new one whose name escapes me but um but I think it's like a low commercial.

B

Industrial type and then we have the industrial zone, so I don't know that.

B

You know, do you necessarily want to exclude utility scale solar from those other zones.

B

um Once again, if we went to the solar siding map right I mean that's. So that's the key here I mean.

A

So here we have this uh these categories, but we don't know how the chesapeake bay conservancy.

A

Map corresponds to each of these zones right. Well, if it, if it's built on it's optimal, because.

B

Because their solar cycling map wants you to put solar on every single roof, that's not a single.

B

Part yeah, I agree, but that's not utility scale. We expect utility scale, unfortunately, to come.

B

Forward wanting to use vacant land yeah right, so I think you know from my point of view to understand.

A

How the map works I'll have to know, for example, especially some of the last ones that you talked.

A

About um the mixed use of where there was just a few different houses on that, maybe that falls into.

A

The permissible uh or or uh yeah permissible for for the chesapeake bay conservancy, so it seems to.

A

Me we have to think about this a little bit or at least see how this table maps onto the chesapeake.

A

Bay conservancy map yeah. Okay, so I mean that's just my opinion as one member of the task force.

A

For me to understand this, because I think you're right what this is saying, solar major, would.

A

Exclude most areas, which some of them are obvious right, we don't want to put them in downtown.

A

Leonard town or downtown callaway or whatever, but adjacent to that we may want to allow that.

A

And um at least with conditional use- and so I think you know, I'm not sure how the map that the.

A

Chesapeake bay conservancy provided uh corresponds to some of these. These uh um categories.

A

Any thoughts on that from the other task force members.

A

I'm sorry, could you repeat yourself, bonnie, uh did we receive um data to put on our actual.

H

Gis with this report, we did receive a map. I don't know what the degree of data that we.

A

Have provided they have a very detailed map? Is there any way, uh maybe to follow up with you.

A

Harry would there be any way to sort of uh uh to put these two together, or is that a sort of very.

A

Heavy lift for oh, no, no, and so I think that's exactly what we need to do um next month is.

B

Is really focus on the map, and so um I mean I can open those maps while we're here today.

B

um But so we can see that this table is geared towards non-solar projects.

B

And um and- and so I think, right now- we've seen enough this table, we know we need to.

B

Figure out, do we want to put these c's? The only other thing you could say here is: is it is the.

B

Task force comfortable that it should always be a conditional use.

A

I think for each of these categories, I think, let's do that as a first cut here for utility.

A

Scale and then, if we feel like that's not necessary, um then I think certainly we will.

A

We'll listen to listen to folks all right last. Do you have any thoughts on this.

C

So I think I don't have too much suggestions off here.

C

Many counties use conditional use of special protection at the default.

C

There are a few counties that go a little more gradually than say and from some specific zone.

C

Area it's a committed use and then in others it could be a conditional use of special discussions.

D

But most will say across the board might either conventional use or a special example.

B

So that is um on the next page, seven item five.

B

How to apply by right permitted use special exception conditional use.

A

So uh just to be clear so for number four, we'll kind of we need to go through the zones.

A

We'll make it perhaps even make a table, that's solar made or major solar minor, and it's really.

A

Just obviously, solar major is just going to be utility scale and we'll be able to get a better.

A

Feel for how the the map sort of uh you know how it corresponds to the categories that we have set.

A

Up that you have set up on the zoning area, because solar miner you've already decided is a permitted.

B

Use in all zones that's correct right, that's correct and, um okay. So that's the consideration.

B

So I mean I can move on to the buffer yard chart. Where would you rather, I bring up a map? uh I I.

A

Think that uh maybe the it's up to the committee members, but uh I think uh the map. However, I think.

A

We need to actually study it. I think that'll. Take too long, don't you agree? Yeah I mean I. I.

B

Think you can probably decide on the buffer yard issue, yes, and then we can start looking at the map.

B

And and yeah I would like to get through some of these harry. I agree so what we can get through and.

A

uh So, let's do uh I know we have the buffer yard. That's the setback requirements correct right. So.

B

Well- and I don't mean to leave less- is um so like num. If so, we know we have to look at the maps.

B

To arrive at the um answer on number four: where allowed that's correct, so then, if we go to five.

B

How do we apply um by right, permitted, use special exception, conditional use and we're not ready to.

B

Make that decision, I I don't, I don't think we are. Unless do you want to say a few words about that.

A

I mean I don't want to make it difficult. I mean I don't want to make it overly difficult right.

A

We have conditional use already that we're talking about or conditional use with special.

A

Exemption, do you have any recommendations here from other counties that can give us.

A

A little bit of guidance on this less so, as I previously noted, I think some counties just say.

C

In the allowed zone, classification for utility scale, they either say always by conditional use.

C

Or qualified stuff description, there's only a couple of counties here and you can look over.

C

As an example, where they sort of study wow, that's a permitted use in a couple of areas and at the.

C

Condition they use this conception in others. I think looking at how uh saint mary's favorite.

C

Pain, I would recommend, if you're comfortable, just to say the allowed areas is the condition we use.

C

Knowing that we're going to go back to recommendation four and be much more.

C

Specific about which of the zoning areas it's allowed in. I think that's, that's a that's a.

A

Reasonable way to proceed yep any thoughts from other task force members, I'm good with that.

A

Yeah, I think that's what we should do. I recommend we do that and put that language in uh less.

E

A

Number six uh yeah, I mean, I think um you know I am very.

A

Very hesitant to put limits on this uh myself, um since uh you know the only thing, there's a.

A

Suggestion here- and this is, I guess, is that uh we consider using uh you know the limits being.

A

On based on current grid capacity, I don't know what implication that has uh mr shaw: if any.

F

Depending on where they're wanting the cyclists, it could or could not be a limiting factor.

F

But even if it is limited by grid capacity, there are ways around that by upgrading the grid.

F

If the developer wants to pay that kind of money.

F

So it's uh any other thoughts from task force. Members on this.

H

um I don't think we should limit the size if they're meeting the other requirements of the.

H

Effort that we face yeah, I'm worried that if we were to go too far here.

A

That we would not only run into problems uh with some of the uh the what what we last brought up.

A

Many many months ago about the perennial decision and and uh having requirements, much more stringent.

A

Than the cpcn process, so I'm reluctant really to put in any kind of aggregate limits or individual.

A

Size limits, I think, in some ways right the uh you know, we could still consider grid capacity.

A

Would that have an effect on the developers that so the developers nonetheless would still have to.

A

That would be a cost to the developers, mr shaw, if they were to put in say a 50 megawatt system.

A

In a place where uh you know the grid needed to be upgraded, they would have to pay for that.

A

Upgrade correct they do and they know that well in advance when they go through the pjm study.

F

That's part of the feasibility analysis that we put before them when they come in.

F

To pjm with the application, we'll let them know if it's constrained and if it is here's what it costs.

F

To fix it, and so even if we did put in language on aggregate limit, the limit of solar is based on you.

A

Know the current grid capacity. That would be so to speak, a very soft requirement in a sense because.

A

It could be, uh it could be, I think, gotten around or by simply upgrading the grid.

A

By the developer is that is that your understanding, it would be.

A

I'm not sure the value of putting it in. I wanted to hear, though, from other task force members that.

A

They feel like this language should go in there and that there should be bonnie's already said.

A

There should be no aggregate limits on these projects or individual size limits other than.

A

What's uh what we're stating in the uh elsewhere in these recommendations, anyone anyone else, you.

A

Want to amend that bonnie! uh No, I I don't want to admit. I just want to kind of expand, because.

H

We're talking about utility scale, so they're going to fall under the limits that are set at the state.

H

Psc, um the actual infrastructure itself, so there's enough other factors that could potentially play.

H

In in how big a utility scale system is, I don't think that we need to put in place anything. That's.

H

An additional limiting factor, um especially since it's kind of handled at the state level I I agree.

A

With you- and uh I think, that's an important factor here- that's uh we should we should consider anyone.

A

I think we all I get I'm seeing some nods around so les. I don't think we want to.

A

Put any limits on this here, knowing full well that as bonnie so are uh so so nicely.

A

Said that the cpcn process and as mr shaw's indicated there's a number of safeguards here.

A

That really will uh you know that have to be met uh prior to this and then there's of course,.

A

All the other considerations that we are putting into these recommendations uh as well all right.

A

Number seven, uh the setback requirements um and uh we so we we have in here harry.

A

And and always again, uh relying on some of your expertise here, we're creating these two new.

A

uh Rows, solar, major and solar miner and for solar miner, we've already actually amended.

A

The setback requirements for solar major, that is, the utility scare solar.

A

We have not really said much about it. We certainly would want to incorporate.

A

I think some of the considerations that we already said, at least for uh you know.

A

Perhaps in in industrial I'm not sure we might be able to use other areas.

A

Could you uh help us here um well and just for clarification, so um the setback is, is.

B

How close to the property line this isn't buffer yards yet, and so with with all the.

B

Other solar uses we've been through up to an including um community, also known as miner solar.

B

The existing setbacks per the zoning ordinance in that zone prevail. We we did not come up with.

B

Any special setbacks to apply to solar, and so the way um less has it drafted here. That would be the.

B

Same for utility scale as well yeah, I think that's, uh I think, that's acceptable. Go ahead. Bonnie. I was.

H

Going to say yeah I would, I would thought the the setback requirements, the screening requirements.

H

That we worked through with community solar- I I would say just apply it to utility, because at.

H

The edges right everything's going to be the same, and it's not like you're getting more pollution.

A

Yeah and I think uh yeah I would compare it, you know the setbacks would say you.

B

Could have a four-story building that close to the property line, and these.

B

Ground-Mounted solar are not going to be as intrusive as a four-story build yeah.

B

um Okay, eight screening, I'm gonna, bring up that.

B

B

So um the high intensity is at the bottom.

B

And so um if this was a high intensity, major, which is a different animal than a major solar, you can.

B

See the there are additional buffer yards that were not required for the low intensity right.

A

So we could uh for our purposes here the transportation community and utility high.

A

We would be substituting solar, solar high in here potentially, and so would you remind us of.

A

The abc buffer yard standards, again yeah, and also just so in case. This is what bonnie meant so like.

B

The utility major is high intensity, but that doesn't mean solar major is high intensity and.

B

So if it's also low intensity, then would the minor solar buffer yards be appropriate right.

B

But I will show you again what those buffer yards are yeah. So this was the a buffer yard.

B

The b buffer yard and the c.

H

Yeah because the buffer impact is going to be the same.

B

So if I heard her correctly um apply the same buffer yard standards to major.

B

Solar that were applied to minor solar. Let's do that and let's make sure that we have these.

A

Sort of mapped out nicely too, because we we're going to need to be able to see these.

A

And make sure that we can confirm that I I'm good with that as well bonnie. So I think.

A

And uh so that would we wouldn't be having additional ones? I just want to see this.

A

All laid out to see if there's any, uh let's just look at this a second um so.

A

For residential uh it's b and it's uh it's standard b in low and that's uh 65 and.

A

Type b, buffer, canopy, trees underlying trees, and then we made the adjustment.

A

That the trees should not uh in any way diminish the production of the solar equipment.

H

Yeah we recommended that the buffer width be alternative 20 feet, an additional understory of.

H

Vegetation can be substituted for canopy trees, where the placement of canopies.

H

Would negatively the energy generation capacity of the project so basically type after replacing.

A

Right and so and.

A

Then see, could I see c one more time. So that's a little bit uh that has a fence and I had a.

A

Fence- and this probably will have a fence, but this was a was this a fence that would.

A

This is intended to be an opaque fence that would block headlights and the like, whereas.

B

We expected to simply have a chain-link security fence so getting back to.

B

This one so the the task force recommended on community solar and approved.

B

That type a buffer requirements be applied to community solar projects and I believe the.

B

Intent was regardless of the adjacent use, so you would disregard the b that you see on this table.

B

That those bees would be replaced by this modified a yeah and the modification.

B

Is um that it's 20 foot, so it's the vegetation of the a but it's been increased by five feet.

A

Yeah, I mean the only the only concern I have and- and this is my concern- I'm not sure it's.

A

Shared by the other task force, members is in residential having a utility scale.

A

um Next to a residential area is that so if that's possible, then for me I think, there's a I mean, I'm.

A

Not positive that will can happen and would happen, but if it did, I certainly would want a a you know.

A

Some kind of buffer to with uh you know for the residential area, it's very possible for two two.

B

Reasons number one, there's always there's always the property. In a particular zoning district, which.

B

Is the boundary and so in this example, this is the last property in the residential zoning district.

B

And it borders a different district, and so that different district is where there's going to be.

B

Some different use likely then our other most common residential is our rural residential.

B

You know every everyone out in the world's own: every occupied property has someone living on it.

B

And um sometimes they're in the center of the property and sometimes they're close to each other.

B

And so yeah it could happen anywhere that you could have the utility scale next to a house.

A

I mean, I think I think this does require other members to suggest it. I mean I.

A

I I personally would would prefer something more than just uh you know.

A

uh For residential something a little bit stricter.

A

Than what was proposed for commercial excuse me, for uh I think it was community community, solar.

A

So chairman sound like it doesn't sound like anyone's.

A

It's pretty quiet in here contemplating yeah, looking good the different pictures. That's typing.

B

You want to show us the pictures yeah and I was- and I was about to say chairman, maybe to help.

B

Move that um you know so, do you think it needs more width, more vegetation or an opaque fence.

A

I think more vegetation to be honest would be would be.

A

Sufficient, would you be good with c that's before us minus the fence? I would.

F

But get behind that but keep it at the 20 foot or keep it where the c is 30 foot, I'm okay with.

F

Keeping it at the 30. yeah, that's 10 yards when, when you're looking at that amount of vegetation.

F

If you begin to squeeze that down to 10 feet less right, the vegetation will die out because it'll.

F

Grow up, yeah compete with everything else, and the other consideration with the community is the.

B

Communities are going to be smaller, solar fields, so we didn't want to take from the perimeter.

B

And and take away usable solar area, but now we're talking about these grander solar fields.

B

Where taking a little bit around the edge, isn't going to diminish the mass as much that's right.

F

I could get behind a modified c with the out of fencing requirement, so.

A

Bonnie, do you have any thoughts on this? um I guess in my mind and right.

H

At the risk of having a massive amount of solar behind me, um I guess.

H

A couple rows of solar versus 10 rows of solar.

H

Doesn't really make that big of a difference? You're not getting noise you're, not getting smell.

H

It you know, and we're trying to maximize this property so.

H

Unless it helps with like storm water or something.

H

I I don't really see the necessity for that to be different than what we have for community.

H

Personally, yep.

A

So I think I I feel comfortable with c um and without the opaque fencing, and I think that would.

A

uh Obviously, that would just be limited to where the residency is right, the property line or would.

A

That have to go around the entire, no, no only where it's adjacent to that other unit. That's right! Yeah,.

A

The less compatible- I think I am comfortable with this, and I think that seems like to me of.

A

Something that's appropriate to protect residents from large.

A

Utility scale, solar and still allows uh you know them to in some ways shield or or what these.

A

Buffers do is, to not be out have to see this directly from their backyard, so to speak.

A

And uh it may may or may not happen, but I don't think it will put undue.

A

uh Pressure on you on the the developer, since this would be probably you know this wouldn't be in a.

A

Strictly residential neighborhood so to speak right for utility scale, but would be in a more.

A

Rural area- and it would be only in the case of a perhaps a a property- that's you know where the.

A

House is somewhere adjacent, it'd, be an issue so um also substitute the understory for canopy trees.

A

Yes, I think that that's that's right now um you were focused on the residential. um Do you.

B

Think you need a buffer next to agricultural on the far left. I I don't personally, okay.

B

And then, and so then, if we move to the right public, semi-public commercial.

B

Industrial and there we had, in the uh other case right where I would say that we do the modified a.

A

uh What we had for community solar, let me ask the question yeah and that's please directed to harry.

F

We're setting the different buffer yard, the zoning exists today and it's an agricultural setting.

F

They go through a zoning modification, it becomes residential. Do we then force them to go back and.

F

Plant more or no, the so the buffer yard and again the buffer yard um that we're talking about here.

B

Is the proposed use is the major solar and the adjacent use is a use, not a zone, there's an actual.

B

Use occurring on the property: now I buy a vacant property next to a major solar, and I build a house.

B

Next to a major solar that major solar doesn't have to do anything because it was there first.

B

This, this is how the new use coming in does something to accommodate the.

B

Existing use next door. By the same token, if I put in a 10 story somehow.

G

Apartment unit I'm allowed to do that, even though it shades solar until maryland, passes.

B

A law that yeah we have no laws that protect view sheds or um or protect you from shade yeah.

B

Such laws do exist um in the nation, but not here so this is. uh I would encourage.

A

We still have to vote on this bonnie. So there's nothing been decided yeah, I'm I'm fine with it.

H

With adjacent residential 30-foot, no fence yeah for utility scale, I'm fine with that: okay, yeah.

A

All right, thank you very much. I think we then have the screening requirements. uh Les did you get that.

C

I got that okay, thank you, so get rid of that slide. The decommissioning requirements.

A

Is number nine? The task force recommends that utility scale uh solar, provide developer.

A

Provide proof to the county: it's complied with. Decommissioning requirements, including proof of.

A

Bond other financial security set forth by the psc. So uh yes, of course, we're basically recommending.

A

What's consistent with the psc requirements for utility scale, solar, no amendment to that.

A

um Other requirements- number 10 uh utility scale projects should not unreasonably restrict or.

A

Limit historical or scenic view shed: this was the same language, less that we used in.

A

Some of the other uh types of solar, correct, and so the commissioner should also consider whether.

A

A utility scale project to submit to the county and operation and maintenance agreement.

A

For stormwater management and vegetation upkeep, the agreement should include a bond.

A

Or other financial agreement acceptable to the county, I think that I'm good with the.

A

Should not unreasonably restrict historical or scenic view shed, I I hope any any thoughts by.

A

The other task force members, I think, we're all in agreement less on that, as well as.

A

The the bond or other financial agreement that was explained to us earlier by harry.

A

I think that language looks acceptable to me is that uh is that clear, less.

C

G

On the bond, um it's very very feasible that the at the county would not require a bond.

A

That that's right and that's uh that's uh what that's what harry suggested and there could be.

A

Things in lieu of that that would be acceptable to the county and to the developer. Hopefully,.

A

11 special permits require, no, I don't think we. We certainly don't think there should be.

A

Additional permits here beyond uh what should be you know, is, will be required, since I think.

A

We have plenty of uh requirements that we should have been going through right.

A

Okay, the military concerns the task force.

A

Basically, you're reminding us here that we haven't made any recommendations here uh um regarding the.

A

Use of commercial- uh in this case industrial or institutional solar accessory with respect to the.

A

Military, so I think we uh I do think we need to think about this right and- and we talked about it,.

B

Well, I, like the word. You just said that they're in respect to the military, so some sort of language.

B

About respecting the appropriate um setbacks from the um important military installations.

B

Pax river and webster field funny, so if we create, if uh so, if we incorporate the data layer, that's.

H

Already at the maryland state level like if we incorporate that into our permanent gis.

H

Of hey you for for any solar projects, you may have you may or may not have to go through this.

H

Process based on this data, or this um sort of like the acoust right, like the acoust, doesn't.

H

Eliminate all development, but it's just a hey by the way. This is where the aqs is, and this may.

H

This may or may not impact your project, so we could do the same thing with the solar.

H

Data layer, yeah so there's the smart dg um state website that actually.

B

Already maps the um the military installations, um and so uh the suggestion here bonnie by you, is to.

A

Maybe recommend that to the developer, the county commissioners here that they use that uh as a.

A

Their indicator for whether or not uh you know to put this military concern in that you could.

H

Either reference the smart dg's site of the process to get your your solar development.

H

Approved we could just send them. Okay, you may have to go through this process if your property falls.

H

Within that site, or, conversely, we could just get the data layer and add it to our canon gis.

H

And say: hey you may or may not deal with these people. If you want to develop here right and this.

A

Is so this? Your remark, too, is is not necessarily to the military, but the broader issue of of.

A

Anything so to speak, of any development uh should go through the smart dg site with utility scale.

H

Yeah, so you you've got two different, there's two different paths. We could.

H

Go, we could just say hey reference this or we could provide the data layer itself.

H

Within our own county gis last, do you have any thoughts on this.

C

I I think, uh having them check at least moving through that exercise is reasonable.

C

For any reason, uh in terms of specifically to the extent the county might be able to incorporate the.

C

Data layers into its own gis, just in case for some reason- and I don't see this happening but just.

E

In case, for some reason, the smart eg program and maps suddenly go away with funding issues or other.

C

Things at the state level: you've got it locally, so you can still require that if something's.

C

Going to happen, and this smart ddg program would change substantially at the state level.

E

That could put you in a situation that you might not want to use.

A

I think your suggestion bonnie, is a good one. Generally so, um and I hear what you're saying.

A

uh Less about uh putting this in if the smart dg site goes away somehow right, we have some of this.

A

Information in there, I still personally think that the commissioners would welcome any remarks about.

A

The military- and so I think, to the degree that we can cite some things here less uh about you.

A

Know that that we are really trying to uh respect the concerns that the military have here and that.

A

We, uh you know- perhaps uh I'm not sure harry, but could this be part of any conditional use that.

A

They have to consult with the military uh if, if, uh if so impact well well, the navy is already on our.

B

Technical evaluation committee, so any any project is going to be um shared with the navy but yeah. I.

B

I can tell you, you know, having been through both the.

B

Public hearing on the moratorium and then the decision, the um the one thing that is brought up.

B

Is the navy and um commissioner morgan, um you know who um initiated this solar task force.

B

Was concerned about protecting the navy commissioner o'connor at the public hearing.

B

um Specifically pointed out that the navy is, um the navy means 22 thousand jobs to saint mary's.

B

County, so I think a strong recommendation of um of you know respecting the navy um understanding the.

B

Need to protect the navy's mission, you know those usual types of statements is what they'd like.

B

What the commissioners would like to see? Okay, so uh last I'll work with you to provide some.

A

Language there, so the committee excuse me the task force can see this uh and, of course, any.

A

Task force members that has language they want to recommend. I invite them to provide that to less.

A

Number 13 the county should support policy changes at the state level to allow an affected county.

A

Or municipality, to have an automatic right to participate in the psc hearing process.

A

As a party of interest is desired, you're saying this is not less required. Currently.

E

Frankly, no, this is not required. This is something that I think the psp itself is interested in.

C

Right now, a county or municipality trust.

C

Usually those were granted, but it is an extra administrative and legal step.

C

uh Here it would basically flip it and say you're automatically considered in if you.

C

Want to be, you don't have to file that separate petition to be found as a party.

A

Yeah, I would think that the county should be involved in this, but I don't know if other.

A

Task force members believe that I'll yield the floor to hear any uh any other thoughts on this.

A

So this is free. This does seem like the right place for this less, since.

A

It really is utility scale and involves the uh the psc, uh and uh so I do think that the.

A

Counties should be uh allowed to sort of have an automatic right to participate. This would.

A

Not obviously be a zoning change, but rather just a a recommendation to the commissioners.

A

Any thoughts from any other task force members, no arguments. I agree with you. Okay, I think we.

A

All agree on that uh uh less that that should be uh put in and provide it since I think the.

A

Task force was commit, I think the commissioners as well as uh many people in saint mary's county.

A

Believe that we should have some say into utility scale development in the county. Here we have.

A

Potential incentives for brownfield or gray field development. Again, I think we probably should I'm.

A

Not sure, if that we had other language there does anyone have any suggestions here on that.

C

Mr chairman, if I could offer a suggestion, uh I could do the same thing for the utility scale that.

E

You adopted for the community solar and bring down um mitch and brownfield great field development.

C

Down in recommendation 15 under the pilot yeah, I I would be good with that to again.

A

This does not constrain the developers, it just is, uh and it doesn't constrain the the.

A

Commissioners, but it does give the commissioners a sense as well as developers of where we would.

A

Prefer development, but that doesn't require development in those areas.

A

Yeah, so I think without objection then we'll put that language in to number 15.

A

um 14 uh we're gonna yeah, exactly thank you in 15 they're, just like before. 14 and 15 will be.

A

Sandy we're going to strike really one of them and they'll be combined.

A

A

Last, I think that is that all on utility scale, that's all. I have on the recommendations so far.

A

Do any other task force members wish to add anything that we didn't cover.

A

uh We could still go back. I do want to characterize some of the things we need to do.

A

Next time, nothing further that night, okay, bonnie! Are you good.

H

No yeah, I'm good, I'm looking to get into the map. Okay, so we have some work. We still have.

A

Some work to do uh here uh on utility scale to go through this, especially on number four.

A

And then uh I think we're gonna get we're gonna have to work through that a little bit more.

A

Mr knight and less and we're gonna certainly need some of your help and guidance on that.

A

So that we can get a better feel for both the language we should put in here, but more.

A

Importantly, the main ideas that we have to bring forward to the commissioners, and so with that.

A

uh Any I think les do you have any further questions for us. Not at the moment. I will follow.

C

Up with harry uh prior to the next meeting to work through the language, particularly on the core.

C

And to make sure all the terminology is written, a couple of the other adopted recommendations.

A

Okay, thank you very much les uh harry. Do you have any final thoughts before we adjourn.

B

No sir, okay, um I I noticed so bonnie, says she's getting in and she's raising her hand. Thank you.

A

Bonnie yeah thanks sorry, I just had one real quick uh request to perry the um zoning definitions.

H

For what the zoning stands for, do we have a? Is there a candy document or link or something.

B

There is um and um you're familiar with the saint mary's county zoning.

B

um Where the saint mary's county website.

B

And so if you go to public agencies and then choose land use and growth management.

H

Why is this not? Oh, it is interesting. Okay, that's that's the way to do it. Okay,.

B

And then, in the lower right hand corner it should be ordinances, ae, ordinances, um okay, gotcha, yeah,.

B

So you see ordinances and then it should be the one for the lexington park. Development district.

B

And that will have that's the new um list of zones that were created.

B

In the lexington park development district, so that is the best source for the full list of.

B

Zones got it: okay, not not only what they what their titles are, but what their purposes are.

H

Okay, yeah: that's going to be research every time; okay! Thank you. Okay! Thank you.

A

Bonnie. Thank you very much for that question and I think yeah we have. We still have some work to do.

A

uh My optimism of finishing today, less uh I'm going to continue to be optimistic. I.

A

Know we're not finished, but uh we made some progress and I think we clarified some of.

A

The things we need to do still so we'll do that for next time, and uh we will then.

A

Go through and and hopefully uh get through the utility scale.

A

Of recommendations and uh be able to clarify that I'll be in touch with you less as needed.

A

And with that, I moved to adjourn this meeting. Second home favor. Yes, all right! Thank you.

A

Bonnie, thank you mike and thank you jeff for your assistance on this and, of course, lesson harry.

A

Thank you sandy. uh If you have any questions about the minutes, please let me know. Thank you very much.