St. Mary's County, MD Solar Task Force for St. Mary's County, 13 Jan 2021

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From YouTube: 1/13/21 Solar Task Force

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A

Good afternoon, everyone, my name is michael kane and I'm going to call to order uh for.

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Our wednesday january 13th 2021 solar task force meeting um I want to let people know I'm joining.

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Remotely I'm feeling a bit under the weather, and so uh I did not want to uh join in person so.

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Please bear with me if I I inadvertently get some things uh backwards, but I know uh everyone there.

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Will assist so uh I'm sure this will go go well, so to uh begin. uh I'd like to uh first take the role.

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Bonnie kellenberger.

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Present jeffrey shaw present brian thomas is not here. I believe that is correct.

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Mike thompson here.

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Okay, so we have a quorum today, and so we can begin uh with first.

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The approval from the minutes from the december 9th 2020.

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Solar task force meeting: does everyone uh do all the task force members have a copy of those? We do.

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uh I didn't see anything I I moved that we.

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We approved these minutes. Second, all in favor say hi hi, hi,.

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Okay, uh thank you very much. uh It sounds like that past any names. No sir, there we go.

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uh So, let's uh put that one in the books please, for uh so we can move on to some of.

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Our old business, uh so I want to welcome everyone, who's joining uh and uh we'll.

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We'll get to you all in just a second. um I wanted to uh first discuss the mold business.

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The agenda for today uh we're gonna, discuss uh principles first and I'll suggest to the.

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Committee members, that they open up their uh the draft principles that we have been discussing.

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uh And then uh from that we'll really talk about um some of the additional recommendations we have.

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uh The the some overview of the uh the recommendation section and we'll have a number.

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Of different things to work on today, residential commercial and uh you know, discussion of community.

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And uh I know we have some experts to uh weigh in on some of these topics.

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So if uh you would I'd suggest everyone bring up and I'm going to get it on my screen now.

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The draft principles document that les provided to us and less just to characterize this number three.

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Protect important environmental and historic lands. You just made an amendment that really reflects.

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uh That what we're doing there a little bit better with no amendment to uh what.

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Our the statements in there so that looks good to me um and I'll open this up in just a second.

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To other task force members um uh that I think is a friendly amendment. This has not changed the.

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Substance of what we voted on already and so uh without objection, I would ask the.

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Task force members to approve that.

B

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In favor at mr thompson, yes,.

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The next one uh number four encourage smart, solar development. I think that's a simply grammatical.

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Change- uh and I think that we can go and accept that less and then and then number four that.

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This is a substantive change, so I would like the uh committee to look at that and discuss.

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It number five reduce air pollution and climate change just through bonnie's recommendation.

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I'll just read it out loud as a sustainable form of energy generation. The smart deployment of solar.

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Energy in the county will aid the county's efforts in reducing negative effects of air and water.

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Pollution generated by fossil fuels and climate change, so, given that uh bonnie is there anything.

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You want to say additionally about that. uh No, um this, uh it was actually less's suggestion this. The.

C

Verbiage here, uh which I thought was fantastic, um I think it brings to heart um one of the important.

C

Things why we need to move to solar and away from fossil fuels. The only change I added was to add.

C

Water pollution is a very real concern with fossil fuel very good. I fully agree.

A

Do any of the task force members uh would like to comment on this uh uh jeff or or mr thompson.

A

No comments here, uh the only comment I have always have a comment right. Do we want to.

B

Use the term climate change, as that has some uh political overtones or whatever um is there, is.

B

There another term we can use, or I mean I don't. I don't- have any big problem either way, but.

B

Anybody have any thoughts on that. I I I don't have any recommendations. I think it's.

A

um I I certainly think in the community that we live in.

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Most of who work in solar and renewable energies uh certainly think this is appropriate language.

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So I would recommend we keep it. As is okay. That's fine! May I make a suggestion.

A

Yes, please, um because you added and water to the last line, um would it be appropriate to add it to.

D

The title of the section reduce air and water pollution and climate change. It's a friendly.

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Amendment I accept it all right, so I think that would be a good idea that we do that agreed.

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Okay, uh I move that we accept uh number five reduce air and water pollution and climate change.

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uh And that we accept this principle.

C

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Okay, all in favor, say aye aye.

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All those opposed.

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For the record I said I none opposed uh did sandy. Did you get all that? Yes, I did.

E

Yes, I did okay, thank you very much um that uh that then completes if I'm.

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Not uh I think, I'm correct that we have now completed the principal section and voted.

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On each of the principles, so I think we can now uh give that back to you less to include in the.

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We got it: okay,.

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Now uh we're moving on to the main items. I think uh uh we can and at this point I'm going to turn.

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It over to uh in just a second to mr thompson he uh uh before that, I'm sorry uh before we get.

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To the residential accessory solar, um I know we, uh mr knight, you had an update for us on.

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The uh the the one-year uh uh moratorium- yes, so the the your task force um voted unanimously to.

D

Recommend to the county commissioners that they adopt a one year from the date of your decision.

D

Your recommendation, which was december 9th that um prompted us at land, use to draft a communication.

D

Memo to dr bridget and the county commissioners, making them aware providing all background.

D

Information and we have drafted an ordinance for the commissioners to adopt, so we hope that will be.

D

On the commissioner's agenda from on january 26th, it has not been confirmed with them discussing it.

D

In open session on january 26th, should they move in a majority to hold the public hearing? We will.

D

Then have to advertise for a minimum of two weeks the public hearing will be held. The record will be.

D

Kept open for a minimum of seven days, then it comes back to a county. Commissioner.

D

Meeting for final decision, so I predict that the effective date would be march 9th. Therefore, the.

D

Ordinance has been drafted, requesting a 270-day moratorium um because it'll be three months.

D

Between when you asked for it- and you wanted it a year from december 9th so we are on, we are still.

D

Tracking to have your recommendation um fulfilled by the county commissioners so stay tuned.

C

So just a quick point of order on that uh harry, it was not uh unanimous. um Oh I'm sorry said: ned jeff.

D

Shaw had abstained. Absolutely my mistake: um bonnie kellenberger did not um agree to the moratorium.

A

Thank you thank you uh so uh and just to be be sure, there's no! um uh uh No action for.

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This committee- uh and we will not need you- will not need anyone to attend uh this.

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The session on january 26th, uh to tell you the truth, you know when we, when we know for sure that.

D

It will be january 26 um you, um you know I'll, let you know if, if, if I'm giving directions to.

D

Invite you um we, you know under our current um covid restrictions um myself and the director.

D

Would typically not attend in person, but do it by webex, so it would be a webex invitation.

A

Okay, all right, thank you very much and you'll. Let the committee attack excuse.

A

Me the solar task force know about that. Yes, sir, thank you very much appreciate it. Okay,.

A

uh That's general recommendations: um uh unless, just to be clear, we don't need to make any.

A

Any changes we made these changes and discussed them last week on number two correct.

A

uh That and that's what uh was addressed in the global or general recommendations uh there.

A

There was, I noticed, uh just some changes and we we discussed those changes. Last last meeting correct.

A

You're on mute still, uh sorry that is correct. This language simply reflects the amendments. You.

F

Adopted, along with the recommendation all right, thank you very much les for that clarification.

A

um Now I'll point the task force members to residential accessory solar. uh We discussed.

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And approved, I believe the definition, but we as a background and I'll just say a few words.

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And then I'd I'd like to hand it over to you, mr thompson, um we were uh concerned that the.

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The the code as written uh was uh could well affect really small households or lower income.

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Households that were interested in putting uh residential solar, especially on the roof and.

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What motivated this discussion was? Could we modify the building code in a way that was acceptable.

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um To uh you know the fire, commissioners and others so that uh the setback could be.

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uh It restricted a bit on smaller uh roofs, and uh so we have a recommendation uh in.

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Bold, I believe, and I'll just read it and then I'll hand it over to you mike all right on occupation.

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On occupied buildings require a three feet: setback minimally on one side of the roof ridge.

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Also minimally, two three feet clear: pass to the ridge front to back so with that I'll turn it over.

A

To you mike uh you've done a lot of work on this and uh we have some other people here. uh I noticed.

A

I think mr murkatroyd, we have uh uh john nelson, we have joe with us, so could you say a.

A

Few words first, uh mr thompson, yeah, um as you know, originally we were looking at a three foot setback.

B

Up each side and across the top front and back or depending on where. Where your panels were.

B

And the experience, if I say, if I would say in the industry, was that the higher you can.

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Get the panels the more productive they are. They just get more sunlight and and three feet.

B

uh I think they were originally in the front had to be in the front or whatever um you know most.

B

Of the time the panels are not in the front, but sometimes they are um so, as this was developing.

B

What we threw right, there ran up the flagpole. If you will is, can we can we modify the code so.

B

That that you can get 12 to 18 inches from the ridge, no matter what the size of the of the.

B

House or residence or building uh it it's more beneficial to be higher and also could we.

B

Reduce the number of three foot wide pathways to that ridge in the case of firefighters had.

B

To get up there, um I think the response we got back was was very um accommodating. We're.

B

From what I see we're we're talking about 18 inches from the ridge. So that's that's.

B

That's pretty close to where you want to be anyway. You don't want to be all the way up to the ridge.

B

You start getting into wind issues and so forth, um so that that part was fine um and the other.

B

Requirement that you came back with was that at least one path, uh three foot wide path be in the.

B

Front so easily easily viewed uh when firefighters come on the scene, I think we can. We can live with.

B

That as well, so um I I think if, if this, what has been presented stands, I think, is very acceptable.

A

Okay, thank you. uh uh We have uh derek at mercator derek here.

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uh You're you're uh from the mayor office of state fire marshal and uh was hoping that you know you.

A

Weighed in and provided some suggestions here uh in in this draft, do you have any? uh Would you.

A

Like to add to those suggestions or provide any additional advice for the uh for the task force,.

G

Well sure I I guess I could uh first start by saying that uh for those who may not know the.

G

State fire care does not apply to one or two family drawings. So just you know uh that being.

G

Known there's uh we don't have authority and one or two family dwellings. So anything I say here.

G

Is purely just uh you know, recommendation that's nothing to do with the fire code.

G

Now the fire code does uh looks good. Thank you. It has provisions for uh federal voltaic systems.

G

And fire department access and pathways in the fire code that address one or two family dwellings.

G

uh However, you know because we don't have authority, those provisions do not apply so those.

G

Provisions do uh include pathways on either side of the rich um and uh yeah, depending on the.

G

Coverage, you are permitted to reduce that uh setback from the ridge to uh 18 inches.

G

I believe, uh if you're not covering as much of the roof, but my comment about the ridge.

G

Proposal is- and you know this is more of an issue for saint mary's county uh emergency.

G

Services and what they're comfortable with and how their operations work and that kind of thing.

G

So, but from a common sense standpoint, if I have panels on only one side of the ridge, that means.

G

I have to walk on only one side of the ridge, and so if we have first responders on the roof and.

G

Say they? You know their primary escape path is by ladder the way that came up they'll.

G

Set up a secondary, a secondary pathway down the roof on the other side of the building.

G

So, if that primary pathway becomes compromised, they gotta they have to navigate the ridge and.

G

So they'll be having to walk on one side of the ridge to get to their secondary means. Egress.

G

Should fire be coming out of a window near their primary uh so but you know.

G

Say american emergency services they have their, they may have their own ideas. How that goes, and.

G

They may say it's not a big deal at all, you know, so I don't want to speak for them, but that was.

G

Just my uh my first take from that proposal, uh I had another comment about the pers actually.

G

I think that's been revised, I didn't hear you say the word occupied, but I think I saw some language.

G

About it being an occupied roof, it is, it is in the text that the doctor read on occupied okay,.

G

Okay, so I just thought it would be helpful to uh provide some clarity for that uh term, because you.

G

Know that could get subjective and what is an occupy building and what's what's not.

G

uh And so you did provide in, uh we have it in the document, the uh the language that you provided.

A

For occupy buildings, correct, I'm, sorry! Is that a question for me what? Yes, you provided that already.

A

Right and that is in our document on uh okay yeah- I don't, I don't have access. I don't know what you.

G

Guys are looking at. I don't know if everybody's seen the message that I ever or I'm just.

G

uh We do we do you know. I was just gonna speak that I don't have a lot more to add uh to that.

G

um Yeah, okay! Well, that's that's good and thank you. I appreciate it.

A

Both the language providing it and your comments here less uh I just want to write. We have that.

A

Language on occupied buildings, so we're going to want to put that in as well to clarify this.

F

So, just for my own clarity.

F

I can work on that with the occupied building language. I would need to know exactly what you.

F

Wanted me to put in in terms of a definition for that and then also make sure I have the.

F

Exact language with the offsets that the task force wishes that's correct. I understand that.

A

uh And we have not yet made a motion or discussed it yet uh uh so, and we still have a. um I think, mr.

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Mr nelson right with us, and who else do we have uh uh with us um uh joe weither and john nelson.

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Okay and uh either gentlemen, uh can.

A

Can uh I we would like to hear your comments and suggestions on this.

H

Mr nelson, this is joe guy. There um yeah we worked with mike, and we did some coordination on this.

H

And we looked at the fact that.

H

I personally felt that the residential requirements.

H

Were in fact, overly conservative, although I do.

H

Agree with the fire marshal that you got to look at worst case conditions, and so you should have.

H

Two means of uh escape, but it does not appear that the way you have modified the regulation.

H

uh Precludes having the second secondary means of escape, so again, we did some coordination on.

H

This and we felt that it was reasonable for residential structures, and so we did.

H

Not have any particular objections, so I will turn it over on nelson. Thank you very much.

A

Miss mr nelson you're on mute there you go! I'm here, hey sorry about that, uh so so both um first.

E

Off from the fire marshall standpoint, I you know, I would just echo uh derek's comments as far as you.

E

Know I you know, I read his comments and and would agree um also, additionally, is on the other side of.

E

That as a volunteer fire chief stance, you know I would. I would also kind of agree with that, because.

E

uh You know the secondary means of egress is important and I would think if you know if it was.

E

The case where you're operating on the ridge, uh if you could only walk on one side of that ridge, that.

E

Would be very awkward and would could pose a risk, so you know on both sides of it. For me, I you know.

E

I would agree with those comments and and look to uh you know uh to go that direction if possible.

A

um So and just to uh clarify this, so our recommendation and mr thompson feel free to jump.

A

In if I I got this wrong, but our hope is to have it, you know to change this three feet set back.

A

Minimally, on one side of the roof bridge to 18 inches mike right and then minimally, uh you think.

A

One three foot clear path to the ridge is that is that correct? I thought we were gonna have two.

B

uh One was required, one was required in the front, uh but but two paths, two clear paths.

A

Okay, so two clear pass one required in the front and then the second one either in the.

A

Front or the back, that's a question for you mike that that sounds correct to me.

B

The the way this is written um on occupied buildings and.

D

Derek raised the question about you know. um He suggests we clarify what we mean occupied by.

D

Who or what I suppose, but it requires a that, sounds like a single three-foot setback minimally.

D

On one side of the roof ridge front or back so there's one along the ridge proposed, but two to.

D

The ridge, so those are the ones that would go up the side of the along the gable end. If you will.

D

So two to get to the ridge one on the ridge right, but just just to be clear. I think what.

G

What I mean so we're talking about two different kinds of pathways: one that goes from the gutter.

G

To the ridge which two are so two of those are required, and one has got to be well. If you look at.

G

The our recommendations for what's shared in the fire code, one's got to be on the street side and.

G

Then the other one that goes gutter to ridge can be. You know, on a rectangular building on.

G

Any other corner uh on the rig, so the ridge is the second type of pathway, and our comment is.

G

If you reduce the the pathway on both sides of the root, or in other words, if you only have a.

G

Pathway on one side of the ridge you're walking on that slanted surface versus straddling both.

G

Sides of the ridge and walking along towards the other side of the building, for instance, so correct.

G

That's, that's the, I think, that's the the point at issue and then your second point.

A

Derek that you made is that we with an 18 inch that still would allow right uh uh that access.

A

On the ridge vent so to speak on both sides, correct, yeah and 36 is required on both sides.

G

Of the ridge, unless you're- uh and I I don't have the you- probably have an email if you're, if you're.

G

Less than 30, I believe yes, less than one third of the total roof is covered in solar panels.

G

Right then, it may be reduced on both sides to 18 inches, but otherwise you're going to.

G

Have to have 236 inch pads on both sides of the ridge, so you can navigate that bridge.

G

Right right, so I think what I saw from the proposal was that there would be the only real.

G

Path required is on one side of the bridge. The other side of the bridge could be reduced to zero.

G

Right because you only need it on one side of the road, that's correct. The proposal is one 36 inch on.

D

One side of the ridge front or back okay yeah, so perhaps an option might be to reduce it to.

G

18 on one side and require 36 on the other yeah I mean yeah you're free to do anything you wish, but.

G

uh Except I I was just pointing out, it seems to me it would be difficult to walk a ridge.

G

On one side, while the building's on fire at night- and it's raining- you get it, you want to be able to.

G

Put your feet on both sides of the room and get to the other side of the building and get down.

G

That other alternate pathway, yeah and understand, go ahead, mr thompson, yeah. Just uh one comment: I I.

B

Accept in very minor and I'm not sure what the purpose was uh situations. uh Typically, uh you.

B

Only put panels on one side of the roof line anyway, ridgeline anyway, so I've never seen any.

B

Application in a serious application where, where you have panels on both sides, you you look for the.

B

Orientation of the sun, and typically it's well defined by the by the geometry yeah point well,.

D

Made if if, if this side is facing the sun, the back side is is facing away and you wouldn't put panels.

D

There right, um dr kane, so point of clarification. um I didn't mean to invite derrick to put him.

D

In a potentially uncomfortable position, providing advice about residential solar panels because, as.

D

He pointed out um the state fire code does not apply to one and two family dwelling solar panels.

D

But I did want his information because mr gwyther's email talked about commercial buildings.

D

And that's where derek has provided us? What are the state of maryland minimum setbacks for solar.

D

Panels on commercial, institutional, multi-family buildings and derrick will correct me if I'm wrong.

A

I understood and heard loud and clear uh um uh harry and uh my apologies to derek.

A

No, no intention to do that. Okay, no! It's no problem, that's a kind of the uh how it goes so. Okay, thank.

I

You so again, if I may, I mean we've heard from joe weither representative of the saint mary's.

D

County fire board we've heard from keith fairfax, who unfortunately has not joined us tonight, he's.

D

The um I can't remember his exact title with the bay district fire department, but certainly a long.

D

Long term um firefighting expert in st mary's county water supply officer, water supply officer.

D

um And so, while derek's given us perspective of what the state fire code would say to other than.

D

One and two family dwellings, it sounds like we had um a comfort level to go with our proposal.

D

Derrick's only reservation about our proposal or very clear reservation is we might want to.

D

Clarify what we mean by an occupied building, it seems like that's the.

D

That's the soft spot that might need to be firmed up. Okay, understood.

A

A

Do do you want to? Can we uh task you with uh we're the next meeting providing a motion.

A

uh That uh that clarifies this right, because uh we would.

A

We would be changing when occupied buildings required three-foot setback. Isn't that correct.

A

And we would be changing some of that language there correct mr thompson sounds correct. Yes,.

A

So, uh let's do this, uh let's tap you with. uh I would ask you to provide.

A

Less with the exact language for next time,.

A

And uh uh consistent with our discussion today, okay- and uh we will vote on that on.

A

The next task force meeting is that acceptable to you, jeff and uh mr thompson and bonnie works.

A

All right, thank you. Thank you, gentlemen, for your input. We very much appreciate it and needed it.

A

For this, uh for this section uh of the residential uh uh residential solar.

A

So the next uh next order of business on that section is, I think, number four and I invite.

A

The task force to go to number four uh in the recommendations uh and we uh les we had agreed.

A

To this and you've really, this is really about uh the statutory impediments to residential solar.

A

That maybe homeowners associations could somehow block and, as we noted right, this is not really.

A

Permitted, I think harry indicated that that's part of state law and you you cite that state law.

A

But I think really, the issue is that maybe homeowners don't know about this, and so you.

A

You added a sentence that said homeowner education about existing rights under state law regarding.

A

Residential sensory solar could be undertaken where appropriate, so some education here.

A

May well be in order, and this would be one of our recommendations, so I'd like to open it up.

A

To other task force members, if they would like to comment on this uh and have have any thoughts.

A

C

um I think I'm perfectly happy with the the verbiage we have here.

C

I don't know, look like, but that's um I leave that to our capable county professionals. Okay,.

A

Yeah and and uh the homeowner education about existing state law right.

A

uh Could be undertaken where appropriate, such as on the website right left. uh This would be.

A

High cost, we would just provide this, as uh you know, recommend that the county.

A

Provide that to homeowners in a uh in a in a way, that's uh not costly. Is that correct.

F

That is correct. uh The the task force did pass the the language last meeting. What is in black.

F

And there was talk about potentially some change to it um with the stress on homologous education.

F

Is the cheapest way to implement this, so this the new language in blue or whatever color you have.

F

From the print out there, that's underlined is my attempt to try to just realize that, and this is.

F

Can be as little or as much as the county wants, simply putting something on a website and.

F

To say: hey homeowners, be aware of this: if your homeowners association says you can't do solar.

F

Panels, uh this is the state law and you could have the right under most sentences to do it and that's.

F

As simple as that, if the county wanted to be a little more aggressive with pushing out that that.

F

Message or some type of educational program, uh they could do that as well. The the language this.

F

Extra language and the recommendation does not preclude how extensive the county wants to do. This.

A

We have a resident expert at jeff. Did you have any comments on this? I know smek uh smeko does.

A

A lot of you know a lot of education on this, but do you have any comments, uh no comments, but we do.

J

Have a lot of education, like you said when our members reach out to us, perhaps they've.

J

Been denied permission to install that we tell them here's where your rights exist, so.

B

Yeah and it's mike thompson, if, if I may say that any uh contractor solar contractor dealing.

B

With any customer is well versed in this, and and would bring it forward uh very quickly,.

A

So do you think we'd uh are you both saying probably don't need that language in there.

J

I don't see where it's harmful at all. It could stay by me.

B

Yeah, I don't see any harm in it. I I I don't see it applying too many times, but it doesn't hurt to.

B

Have it out there for those that have not inquired for sure? Okay, all those in favor make a motion.

A

uh To include the homeowner education sentence under uh recommendation for under the residential.

A

uh Residential solar, uh all those any any. uh I recommend sorry, I uh uh make a motion second.

A

All those in favor say aye hi, hi hi. All those are perverse.

A

Okay, it's that past, uh so we'll include that record that suggestion into the.

A

Into that language and number four, uh I believe the next. uh The next recommendation here is.

A

Number six uh which we tabled- and this was really uh this- took up some time last time.

A

uh On how we can consider whether any additional county assistance could be provided and.

A

Mr knight, I think you uh in some ways you've done some due diligence on this in the past month.

A

And reached out to some people in the in the county government is that correct.

D

That is correct and um and um received no responses back. However, it did jog my memory.

D

And so what was included in your packets is the um sprinkler tax credit that the county commissioners.

D

Did years ago, when they were trying to promote residential fire suppression sprinklers in new.

D

Homes before it was mandated by state law- and um so um you know the question that delayed the vote.

D

On this section last time was we don't want to recommend something if the county commissioners.

D

Don't have a mechanism to do it, and so I feel that I've answered that question for you.

D

They have the power and authority to create such mechanisms if they think it's appropriate. You know.

D

It um so that, by the time your recommendation gets to them next june, uh where this coming june.

D

These types of questions always come up um during budget discussions and like we're in the in the.

D

Midst of this year's um fiscal budget um planning, and then it goes to public hearing in may so by.

D

The time they get your recommendation, the fiscal year budget will already be fixed for that year.

D

But they'll they'll have your recommendation for the coming year budget and what they have.

D

To balance is if they're going to give people property tax credits to install solar? Where is.

D

That going to hit them in the overall bottom line, you know so, if they're going to give give taxes.

D

Away are they going to recoup? This is a very tough time. You know. Revenues are down um for a variety.

D

Of reasons, and yet revenues are up if if we have needs to spend money on covet, if you know what I.

D

Mean so um anyway, stop myself from thinking of a joke about covet versus solar, but anyway the.

D

Anyway, so I think it's I think you have enough to go forward and include this recommendation.

A

So this sprinkler uh of the sprinkler ordnance that they passed, that was a credit tax credit. This.

A

Is a in a sense, a model and an illustration that that the commissioners can do this uh and we would.

A

If we were interested, we would have to craft such language. uh For this, oh, I mean, I think, you're.

D

Taking it farther than you need, I mean I think your question was, can such a thing be done? I mean.

D

That's why I interpreted it, here's the proof it can. It can be done. It has been done in the past.

D

So I would say include your recommendation because it's it's up to the county commissioners, if they.

D

Want to act on your recommendation, then they'll have staff handle that in the future. After.

D

Appropriate budget discussions to decide how much they can afford in a coming year.

A

Do we need to indicate here that they do indeed have the authority? I don't want to.

A

I want to make it easy for them, but also um don't want to be. uh You know.

A

Say something that I should or us say something we shouldn't well, so maybe the um so. What was.

D

Tabled is it says the commissioner should consider whether any additional county assistance parents.

D

Through ordinance or financial aid is warranted to further encourage residential accessory solar.

D

So I mean- maybe you maybe the commissioner should consider whether a future property tax credit.

D

Should be offered to encourage people, to I mean that's where you could be specific.

A

Yeah, okay and I'm, I think that my sense from the committee last time we did want to do that.

A

But I, like other other task force members weigh in on that. Would we like to recommend.

A

To the commissioners that they consider uh some kind of property tax credit on this.

A

uh I'll, let you go first, mr shaw. Okay, um I'm fine with the proposal. I do have two.

J

Friendly offers of amendments to the statement um and striking should and inserting may.

J

And where it says, additional county assistance, that's implying, there's already assistance.

J

So I would strike the word additional. Perhaps.

J

Because it's already leading to me believe, there's already something out there from the county.

D

Which there's not correct? Yeah I reached out to the housing authority the finance director.

D

And the department of economic and development- and I received two I'll get back two years and the.

D

Third, one was silent, um and yet they still haven't had time to get back to me. So, but uh I mean.

D

Yeah um so they're a friendly amendment yep the friendly amendments from jeff. I think we can.

A

It sounds like uh we could, we could do that and the commissioners may consider.

A

Whether any county assistance, friends through ordinance or financial aid, is warranted to.

A

Further encourage residential solar, such as uh reduction in property tax, is that how we could.

A

Put that or credit property tax credit, I would call it a property tax credit right.

F

So can I uh add in uh one thing here, mr chairman: please yes, please less.

F

So I I think deleted additional makes a lot of sense. The should consider language is kind of.

F

A a term of art- it just says they should look at this. It does not hold them to do anything.

F

um At the state level, at least task forces do not use the word may consider, because they can.

F

They consider this anyway, um if should, is viewed as too strong a word, even though it is not.

F

Meant to mandate that they have to do anything they simply should consider, which means they can.

F

Accept or reject anything and say we can't do it because of budgetary constraints.

F

Then this recommendation does not force them to take that action. You could say. Maybe the task.

F

Force recommends that the commissioners consider whether any county assistance.

F

Such as a property tax credit is warranted to further encourage residential acceptance for.

A

I think uh I think that's a a very reasonable um uh frame for that, uh so I'm not in favor.

A

Of it, jeff uh is: is that a friendly amendment? You know that works for me.

A

Okay, all in favor of this uh recommendation number six as.

A

Mentioned by less uh on I I want to move that we uh we.

A

Put this in so I moved that this uh that this recommendation be put in, as stated by less second.

A

All those in favor of uh this recommendation being included as uh as discussed by less say, aye.

A

Number six recommendation passes.

A

uh And I think that uh that last step brings us to the end of the residential section. We already.

A

Discussed military concerns to uh to take that out, uh and I think we've already approved, that we have.

A

No changes to making taxation recommendations uh and I think we are, I think, we're good.

A

uh We're good to go otherwise is that is that your understanding, less of the residential solar.

A

Yes, okay, uh any any other comments by uh task force. Members on the residential, solar.

A

Otherwise, we're going to close that and move on to commercial, industrial and institutional.

A

Solar yeah, if I, if I just, can add that you know the uh national legislation just just nailed down.

B

The 26 federal tax credit for the years 2021 and 2022, so so that's in place um and and a.

B

Very good incentive, excellent and I think uh less that would be good to include in the report.

A

Right as well as you know, we're gonna, discuss sort of uh generally some features about the about.

A

Solar up front, so that sounds like something that would be useful to put in the front of this report.

A

Thank you, mr tom, for recommending that and if you can get a citation.

A

Of four or less, that would be great.

A

Okay, less uh the commercial uh definition. uh I don't think I, I think, really the issue.

A

Here was number four, but I'll turn it over to you to discuss this section and then.

A

uh And then I think we can get derek to weigh in uh sorry derek uh we'll get you to weigh in now.

A

As opposed to earlier so uh les, could you walk us through a little bit this section.

F

Sure um so number one was passed. Number two was also passed and I have the with an amended.

F

Language that was offered by harry, uh so hopefully this is reflective of what was wanted for two.

F

Number three was passed and then number four is the first one for discussion.

F

uh That was tabled yeah and I think the options I think of where the discussion kind of went.

F

Was do we need any of this language at all? uh There were concerns raised about.

F

Whether any type of major renovation should trigger this or not, uh I also there was also.

F

One option of saying this should only apply to new construction, uh but there was a lot of discussion.

F

Also about just rejecting this entirely at the last meeting yeah- and that was my position because.

A

I thought that other um requirements, building requirements etc would would take care of this and.

A

Would a uh would it develop with a solar, installer, really install something themselves on a roof.

A

Right in a commercial facility that could not uh uh could not bear those those solar panels and.

A

Wouldn't they be liable anyway, so do we, I guess my question to to uh to others or do.

A

We need this right and then, uh uh if, if we want to get derrick to weigh in in any way, we can.

A

Yeah so task force member uh mike yeah. I was just going to say it. It's.

B

My understanding that that that the installer uh and the I think a county requirement so.

B

Forth that this structural analysis of some sort be done and approved by a structural engineer,.

B

uh In virtually any solar application, so uh I'm not sure this would be of any added value.

B

To to come up with additional language on it right right and any any any other uh task force members.

J

Nothing to add I'm just going to reiterate what mike said. I I don't really see a.

C

A purpose or that this falls within kind of the scope of what our task force is meant to be doing.

A

Okay, so that sounds like uh then without objection. I suggest we delete this. uh This section uh less.

K

A

uh And then, uh mr uh uh mr knight, um so would you say again uh some of that you know uh uh derek's.

A

What derek can weigh in on here? What you recommend.

D

Well, um no, it wasn't so much this section of your pr of your principles, but just.

D

Wanted him to provide information on what the fire code required for.

D

Commercial building since joe guyther had mentioned commercial buildings in his.

D

Communication but um yeah, if you're, not gonna, so derek the the language at hand.

D

That the um task force was considering, including was for commercial, industrial and institutional.

D

Facilities, the county should require that all new roof construction and to the extent practicable.

D

A major renovation to an existing roof be able to support the weight of solar panels. But, as.

D

You just heard the task force um has decided to simply strike that from the recommendation.

G

Understood yeah that sounds like it's getting into kind of the greening of building codes and.

C

That again, I think that's getting out of kind of the scope of what this particular task force.

C

Was based with okay uh any uh so I don't want to make uh you derek. You wait around uh much.

A

Longer, uh if you were just gonna comment on that section, um is there anything we should.

A

Be uh the pastor should be particularly aware about that. uh You know we have a definition.

A

We have setback heights that we've discussed a little bit. um We didn't believe that there.

A

Could be special permits uh required beyond those that are required already uh and.

A

And then we provided a suggestion that the county should review all of its current institutional.

A

Facilities on physical and economic viability of adding institutional solar uh is there.

A

Anything that we could be considering the task force from your perspective on.

A

uh Considerations on commercial, industrial, institutional, solar.

G

Well, uh pv systems on buildings other than one and two family dwellings are regulated by the market.

G

So and those you know installations, uh we would uh hope that there would.

G

Be a permit so that there will be a mechanism for the uh for st mary's county uh landing to.

G

Require a review by the fire marshal's office and you know taking instrumental as a normal.

G

uh Permit would be, and we would review that to the middle. As part of um you know, our standard.

G

Process, um you know, there's not a lot in here um about pv systems, markings.

G

uh The rapid shutdown stuff, uh the major thing is the setbacks. They're increased to 48 inches.

G

On one commercial building around the perimeter of the building- and uh you could.

G

See from the method that you know, if I need to reiterate that's enough, there's other pathways.

G

uh Required for smith, ventilation and that kind of thing, and we would review that uh as part of.

G

The permit now we've done- we haven't done a lot of these uh several in charles county and.

G

Except for getting applicants to understand that you know, there's a fire code with provisions.

G

Once they get the provisions, um I don't recall there being a lot of.

G

They've been very problematic, getting them to provide a compliant design.

A

Thank you, mr knight, uh mr knight. Do we have such uh language already uh in this.

A

In permitting or do we do, you recommend that we uh cite this language and and.

A

Put this into our recommendations, uh no, I would say we already have it. um We would treat it as a.

D

Commercial renovation um to make a modification to the roof, to add the solar panels and our standard.

D

Operating procedure is to include derrick's office in the review of those permits, um but.

D

It's really very rare that we see proposed solar panels on commercial roofs in saint mary's county.

D

So far, it looks so yeah that changes, but yeah so far it could change right. Okay, well, thank you.

A

Thank you derek for your time today uh we appreciate it uh that you came in and gave.

A

Us, your insights and uh um uh sorry, I put you on the spot there with some of your colleagues.

A

So get it come again I'll try to find a different uh tight position to put you in okay.

G

Thank you for including us in the process. We appreciate the opportunity to weigh in.

G

And we're you know we just um you know I want to see um safe buildings. So that's it.

G

That's right, that's right! That's right and we want safe solar installations as well.

A

Understood yeah all right well, thank you very much. Take care. You too,.

A

I think we're ready to move on to community solar and we have a presentation, uh francis.

A

uh Is it bluehouse very good, yeah good and are you from the coalition for community solar prop.

K

Yes, I work for turning point energy, but I am the co-chair for the maryland committee for.

K

Community, the coalition for community solar access, excellent excellent. I want to thank jeff shaw.

A

For introducing uh you to us, and uh with that you know, we, as you well know here in st mary's county.

A

We don't we're not. We know we currently not participating in community solar, but the task.

A

Force in our discussion thought as a matter of best practice. We ought to make recommendations.

A

In case that changes, uh either at the state level or or that that something changes that.

A

Allows uh would would uh perhaps encourage smeko to uh uh agree to participate in this program.

A

um And so we wanted to bring you in to suggest you know, uh you know some of the best practices here.

A

And and exactly what it is a little bit okay, um I guess before we get started, I'd like to ask.

K

A few questions, if you had the opportunity just to be, you know, make productive use of your time.

K

Did you have any questions if you had a chance if the members had a chance to review the.

K

Presentation that I sent you yesterday and how I might be able to you know tailor you know my.

K

Comments specific to some subjects or topics that you would be particularly interested in.

A

Fair enough, I I think everyone got a copy of it and had a chance to review it. They may have it.

A

In front of them right now- and I do um so I'll first open it up to committee members- I think.

A

One of the issues is, uh you know, to know what what are some of the concerns that that uh that you.

A

Found that communities have when they're pursuing community solar uh there we have a number of.

A

Recommendations that we're gonna go over here, but uh my understanding is that they always need to be.

A

Less than two megawatts uh in size and um and then you know, I think, reviewing some of the key points.

A

Of it would be helpful of what community solar is for the for the task force task force. Members.

A

And then uh any considerations that you think are important: we're going to talk about setbacks.

A

Right requirements that we may decide on uh and also any screening etc. So if you have any.

A

uh Experience with that or any recommendations, I would. I would welcome that as a task force. Member.

K

Okay, great so then I will go ahead and share my screen and I will go through the presentation.

K

um I will not uh go through the video. I assume you all can watch that on your own, um but we.

K

Thought it might be helpful uh just to give you some perspective of the farming community.

K

Since your first question was um you know what to what? What do we expect or what do we hear.

K

From the community members, so let me know I assume you can see my screen. Yes, oh yes, I can okay.

K

Put it in okay. So again, thank you. Yes, I'm! um I am a the co-chair for uh for the maryland.

K

Committee for the coalition community, solar access- um I personally have been working in.

K

The solar industry since 2005, when I first put a 3.2 kilowatt pv system on my roof.

K

I was one of the first grant recipients from the maryland energy administration.

K

Back in 2005 to help support that clearly, it was not a prudent business decision.

K

From an economic standpoint, when solar was about ten dollars, a watt.

K

And now it's it's, what 250 a watt or less so and then, of course, the panel technology.

K

Is certainly increased. Panel efficiency is up to what 380 400, um maybe even the 410.

K

uh Watts versus the 160 watt panels that I have on my roof. So we've come a long way.

K

And I've learned a lot during this process and that's where I had the opportunity to meet jeff.

K

And it was a wonderful uh opportunity to do one of the first ground mount larger ground mount.

K

Solar projects in maryland, so with that background, I'm going to to launch into you know the the.

K

Coalition for community solar access is really um a a an association of businesses and non-profits.

K

uh To further solar development, particularly community solar projects across the country and.

K

With regard to your question about how community solar works, I assume that since you're, the.

K

Solar task force, you already know how solar works, so I won't go into that, but the community solar.

K

Program is a little bit different in maryland. It is administered by the public service commission.

K

And yes, um in maryland, the projects are limited to 2 megawatts under komar and I think that's.

K

The biggest thing that we need to educate uh the communities and neighborhoods and the counties on.

K

Is that this is not utility scale, this is you know two megawatts about. You know, 15 to 20 acres tops.

K

In land use and an opportunity for people that are not as fortunate as myself or as fortunate as the.

K

People that you're talking about with residential and commercial uh opportunities to put on their.

K

Own facilities, people that live in condominiums or apartment buildings or just have houses that are.

K

Just not conducive to putting solar on their own roofs with you know there might be tree um shading.

K

Or they're just root configuration might be off or the roof night might not be structurally sound.

K

Or might be old and not appropriate um historic buildings? You would mention historic properties.

K

Early on in the conversation this afternoon, and uh you can't put solar on a lot of historic.

K

Properties, so this kit is an opportunity for those people that would like to participate in solar and.

K

The clean energy economy uh to participate by subscribing to a community solar project.

K

So- and I guess the other thing here is that um when the subscriber gets their bill, the whole.

K

Point is that not only are they supporting solar, but that they would also get a slight savings.

K

To the retail residential um standard, on her rate and if I and if I may just add or.

A

I may have a question um generally when community sellers developed here uh uh the developer work.

A

May may work with either individual subscribers or with an organization that can access individual.

A

Subscribers so that they can participate in this program is that is that generally correct.

K

um I'm not sure I understand your question so.

A

So if you have a lot of different people right, multiple customers right, you have to organize.

A

Those customers in some ways you have to uh query them and that's got to be done.

A

By you know a an existing organization that knows these lower income customers or by the developer.

A

Who makes a suggestion to an organization? Yes, I'm sorry? Okay, yes, the subscriber organization, so.

K

So um by by rule um they have to be subscribers, so the subscribers can only subscribe to a community.

K

Solar project in their service territory, so if it were in mecco sarah's territory, um they.

K

Would only be allowed to subscribe it from a community solar project in smeko's territory.

K

As be I'm in bge's service territory, so I can only subscribe to a so community solar project in bge.

K

Service territory, but yes, um the subscriber organization will uh solicit and market to.

K

Potential subscribers, including low to moderate income uh entities as well. Thank you.

K

And I guess the bottom line question that we often get is what's in it for you what's in it, for me,.

K

You know I mean what's in it, for the county, what's in it for the subscribers, what's in it, for the.

K

Community and I think that the two most important things here are number one: the opportunity to get.

K

A slight savings from your utility bill and a local community impact with regard to the.

K

Ability for county to collect the property taxes generated from the solar energy project.

K

Which they can use for local initiatives and local infrastructure projects that they want to install.

K

Or, however, they decide to use that tax revenue, as well as local job creation and the local impact.

K

Of having that money stay within the county, so the electricity is generated.

K

Locally used locally and it's uh it's transmitted through the distribution system.

A

Right right, so there is just a real, quick three-step process. Well, I said real quickly.

K

This process is not quick at all, so there are there's a the first thing you have to do.

K

For a subscriber organization has to submit a project so once they find.

K

The parcel um of land or the very large rooftop or parking canopy, or which they want to build the.

K

Community solar project they have to submit that to the public service commission for approval to.

K

Ensure that it complies with all of the rules under comar regarding community solar and so.

K

Once that the psc determines that it complies with all of those rules, um then the psc will.

K

Put that on an approved project list and send that to the respective uh electric distribution company.

K

Or that, where that project will be located, then the subscriber organization can submit.

K

An interconnection application request to the respective edc to request interconnection and.

K

That can take about 120 days to get responses back to see if interconnection is is viable and.

K

Would be allowed at that particular location and then once the conditional approval is received.

K

Then we can actually submit our um how about that we can submit our actual application.

K

To the c-seg stands for community solar energy generating system, we can actually.

K

Submit our application to the evc for program capacity for actual to get that two megawatts.

K

Of program capacity, the pilot program in maryland is seven years. It started in 2018.

K

We are currently beginning year, four, this coming uh probably next week um year. Four will open.

K

And then any project that was submitted uh for year, three that did not get capacity awarded.

K

Was put on a wait list and then therefore would be eligible for capacity in year. 4.

K

Any questions there chebeka.

K

Okay, so then the typical life cycle of a project- that's the next project, the question that we.

K

Typically, get at the community meetings, is you know you know, what can we expect from the time.

K

The project you know the development process, construction and then its operational life.

K

And so it varies obviously depending on the state, the county. But since we're talking about maryland.

K

The pre-development process of actually just negotiating with the landowner and finding the.

K

Appropriate spot to put the solar that can take, I would say one to six months. Actually, we've.

K

Even had processes take longer than that uh just depending because if there are some agreements.

K

um That you should always have a a lawyer, look at and make sure that it's in your best interest, but.

K

We really do try um to ensure that it's a win-win situation for both the developer and the landowner.

K

Because we're going to be, you know, neighbors, it's got to be a collaborative process, we're.

K

Going to be in the community for 25 or 30 years, so we want it to be an amicable and friendly and.

K

Happy relationship so then, once we go through the psc process that I just outlined, and we actually.

K

Get approval for the project. It's um we've got edc approval. We actually get capacity allocation.

K

Then we can actually start the development process and, depending on the county, again.

K

That's totally dependent on the permitting process. The discretionary.

K

Permitting process, as well as the construction, permitting process, and that can take six months to.

K

Three years- and that is not an exaggeration and then the actual construction actually goes a lot.

K

Quicker, um the the construction, I would say, would be probably an average of six months.

K

And that, of course, is dependent on whether when you start most construction obviously would be.

K

Preferred to start in the spring once a you know, the rainy season has passed and you know.

K

It's not so muddy and, of course, it's just always better to do construction in the summer and early.

K

Spring fall and then in maryland, the operational period for a community solar project is 25 years.

K

And there are options, typically with the landowners to extend.

K

In five-year increments, but typically the minimum project life for under the.

K

Maryland regulations is 25 years and then once the program, the the project has um youth, you know has.

K

Has produced through its useful life, the project is decommissioned, and that is another getting.

K

Back to your question, you know that the counties typically want to know and the landowner as well.

K

What happens at the end of the project like what happens at the end of 25 years, and that would be.

K

Decommissioning the project to make sure that all of the equipment is removed so that.

K

Their land is basically returned to its prior condition. uh Is that and may I just uh ask.

A

uh Franny is this: uh is there usually a bond associated with this uh with community solar? Well,.

K

Oftentimes that there is, um but sometimes it's a belt and suspender situation, because we have to.

K

Typically, for most counties require a bond or several bonds to be to be posted, so we have a.

K

Construction bond, the bond associated with the construction of the system and then there's.

K

Often, what's called a maintenance, um a maintenance agreement so, um for example, in montgomery county.

K

Once you get your certified site plan and you build to that set of drawings, you know.

K

Construction drawings um at the end of the project, um the you know, county, will come and inspect the.

K

System and make sure that you followed every letter of requirement and conditions associated.

K

With that site plan, however, there's often you talked about vegetation and screening.

K

And things like that, so once the vegetation or any vegetative screening that's put in place.

K

Or the big one is storm water management and if there are storm water management facilities that.

K

Have been built with the project to accommodate the project, those typically have to be maintained.

K

Again for the life of the project, so there's a maintenance agreement and easements put into place.

K

Such that the county can come to the site and inspect the stormwater facilities to.

K

Ensure that they're being maintained and working properly and managing the storm water as intended.

K

So there are typically bonds associated with that, so I just cautioned that you can get.

K

Bond overload with all of the different bonds that are already required as a result of the system.

K

Itself, as well as um the landowner, typically, um there is usually some agreement within their.

K

Lease agreement, or uh so that they are protected so because obviously they're the ones that are.

K

Going to be mostly impacted right, it's their land, that's going to be impacted if the system is over.

A

Thank you. So in some cases there does not have to be a then a decommissioning bond.

A

That can be an agreement between a landowner exactly okay, exactly.

K

And then you mentioned um the low income and moderate income entities and uh the public.

K

Service, commission and komar uh has when the design of the program you know back in 2015 when.

K

It started was very cognizant and conscious of the ability for low and moderate income.

K

uh Residents to participate in community solar, so there are actually three buckets that we.

K

Talk about with regard to the program capacity, and that is a category called small brownfield.

K

And other of which 30 of the projects must be allocated to that bucket. There's the open category.

K

Which is obviously the most popular, because that's basically your just open green field.

K

Projects and then um the remaining 30 percent must go to designated as a low to moderate income.

K

Category of which of that project that means that 30 of the kilowatt hour output of that project.

K

Must be subscribed by low income subscribers and that is managed. You were very, very astute.

K

That that is managed by the subscriber organizations- and there are mechanisms in place.

K

To determine um you know who is eligible for that category.

A

Okay, thank you, and these are just some pictures of existing community solar projects um that.

K

Exist, uh you know two megawatts and use roughly about 15 acres of land, and you can see that this.

K

Project, in particular, already has some natural uh screening from neighbors. This is all one property.

K

um But you can see the highway in the background there and then the natural. You know the trees.

K

That are around, it were already there. Naturally, obviously, we have a lot of projects that are not.

K

uh Naturally, agitated and we do most county requirements according to.

K

Their landscaping plans and as part of the site development plan approval, will dictate what these.

K

Screening requirements need to be, and they also you you mentioned setbacks. um They will also.

K

uh Dictate um you know, different counties have different rules, whether it's a 30 percent 30.

K

Foot step back 20 foot setback, um whether it's a 50 foot, setback from a wetland or a water feature.

K

Versus just um you know, a 20 foot or 30 foot setback from a property line.

K

So it's really dependent on the county and what their requirements are.

K

But most important, you know what we're looking for when citing projects is most important is.

K

Number one is interconnection. Viability is that the site is near. uh You know, space phase, three.

K

um Distribution line or within say two miles of a substation such that uh interconnection would.

K

Be viable and that the utility um can handle the capacity can handle another two megawatts there.

K

So we typically have to do that's what the whole point of the interconnection application and in.

K

Order for us to get our conditional approval, they do that engineering analysis to determine.

K

If they can handle it, so in addition to that, we're also looking for accessibility that the.

K

Property can be assessed and see accessed by you know the required vehicle, vehicular traffic.

K

And equipment that will be required during construction, but then once construction is over.

K

This is the interesting part that for the next 25 years, there's very little activity at the site.

K

um There's you know perhaps maybe once a year maybe twice a year, you know someone will have.

K

To visit for some, either routine or preventive maintenance, or to fix something that may have gone.

K

Wrong but there really is very little traffic once the system starts commercial operation.

K

So but location and proximity to utility infrastructure is important.

K

You know clear and open space. We have to minimize shading whether it's a ground-mounted.

K

System um the trees again talking about setbacks, there's a natural setback because you have to be.

K

At least 30 feet from a tree line so as to avoid um shading from trees from you know, surrounding.

K

Trees and then, of course, if it's on a rooftop, um then you have to ensure that nothing will be.

K

Built around the existing structure that would cause shading for the next 25 years.

K

So all of those provisions must be addressed in uh any disagreement and, of course,.

K

um Do you want the shape of the property to be? You know, regularly shaped a rectangle or a square, and.

K

Want to stay away, obviously from wetlands um or flood zones, and I think we we talked about you.

K

Know the typical size you know, 15 to 20 acres, um you know is the most that would be needed.

K

And then, of course, topography is very important. um Obviously, the flatter the better.

A

And then you have a section on farmers, so in your experience of farmers, uh one of the large you know.

A

The groups that really you know, uh work with developers to to do this because it can provide.

A

Additional revenue for them, of course, and that is the number one reason you know they love farming.

K

But they recognize that in today's economy and today's society, that farming is really hard to do.

K

It's hard to make it economically viable, especially if you have a small to mid-size.

K

Farm but they want to keep the property and the family, so this is an opportunity for them to.

K

Diversify their operation, particularly if they do have a larger parcel that they can set aside.

K

You know 15 acres for a community solar project and they can still you know, farm the rest of the.

K

Property economically, it really. It really is a win-win situation. It's a very collaborative.

K

Approach and then allows them to keep the property in the family as well. As you know, believe me, I've.

K

Read you know gabe brown's book, I've read, you know dirt to soil. I've read david montgomery's dirt.

K

And I'm learning a lot about soil, health and the microbial properties of soil. So this really is an.

K

Opportunity to allow the land to lay fallow for 25 years, such that, once the system is decommissioned,.

K

I mean you have a beautiful piece of property for the next generation farmer.

A

Yes, indeed, thank you yeah, so I said you know we have a great testimonies from.

K

Maryland counties um that are featured in that video- and I guess um just the other things that.

K

You know typically are discussed with the landowner. You know. Obviously they get an.

K

Annual typically get an annual lease payment um for the property for the you know, 25 or 30 years.

K

And you know they can decide if they want to continue farming um depending on the acreage.

K

That will allow them to do so. Obviously, I'm sure you've heard all about the bee pollinators.

K

And um you know we do typically, I think most all projects now um will include the.

K

Bee friendly and pollinator-friendly vegetation, it just makes sense.

K

um You know why not and so, and also helps you know that you're attracting the bees that the farmers.

K

Also need to pollinate their crops um if they're, of course, a crop farmer rather than you know,.

K

Just an equestrian center or dairy farm, or something like that.

A

um And that can can that be put into the uh the requirements for of a county that they have. uh You.

A

Know bee friendly uh meadows, uh you know when this is put in yeah we're seeing that um more and more.

K

As uh zoning codes get updated, but often it's addressed again in the site development plan, it.

K

Becomes a negotiation honestly that that the county will ask during the site, development.

K

Process and make that a requirement as part of the landscape plan. Okay, thank you very much.

K

Again, I think we talked about you know: soil health, you know, is of the utmost importance and.

K

You know solar really is a boon to to the soil health and allowing that microbiome.

K

To regenerate over the term of the project- and we talked about the pollinator friendly.

K

Aspects of the project, so I think that was my you know. The last thing I wanted to talk about. I guess.

K

What I thought would be helpful, is you, if you could share with me, you know what concerns you're.

K

Hearing um and you know, how might we address those as an industry and mitigate those going forward as.

K

You go through through your process and then just share some of your thoughts on where you are with.

K

Community, solar and thinking about um implementing such a project for such a program well,.

A

Thank you. We, as you know right I mean, I think, as you know, we do not have. We don't currently.

A

Participate in community solar here um and uh uh and you know, and that's obviously smeko's decision.

A

uh I'm sure you know many of us would like them to to participate, uh but that's obviously a decision.

A

For the you know, uh I think for for smeko, but uh I think what I would like to know. I mean uh here I'd.

A

Like to other I've, been asking all the questions and wanted to let uh other task force members sort.

A

Of weigh in here so I would invite them to ask any questions they have. So I I have a question: do you.

B

Have applications where there are multiple sites in one like a a multiple site in one project,.

B

Maybe of a smaller acreage, uh two acres here, one acre there. uh That kind of thing is there. Have you.

B

Seen any any of that kind of application. So that's a good question um honestly. No.

K

um Because it really does make the most economic sense for these projects to hit the maximum two.

K

Megawatts it is very difficult to make a product less than two megawatts to be financially viable.

K

Unless um there were some other kind of incentives to offset the cost, um obviously rooftop systems.

K

Are much more costly than a greenfield ground mount project to do um getting back to your.

K

Other question about co-location. um So if a project is on a brownfield or a landfill or.

K

You can put up to three two megawatt projects at that location if the acreage.

K

Allows for it. Otherwise, um in order to preserve the landscape and to minimize you know, one of.

K

The big misconceptions about solar is that you know all of the open farmland is going.

K

To be blanketed by solar and that's just not true again, these are not utility scale.

K

Projects, leaders- these are small projects and the puc or the public service commission.

K

um Limits that you cannot, there cannot be one community solar project within adjacent to.

K

Another community solar project, so you might have two parcels of land, but if they're adjacent to one.

K

Another you cannot have a community solar project on both of them. An adjacent has a fairly broad.

K

uh Definition, uh it could be across the street so there could be a highway between them, so um they.

K

Really are they really did think this out and considered uh how we would limit? Actually, the.

K

Number of projects in any one, so no one community got overblown with all of the with hosting all.

K

The solar projects that make sense- I probably could have articulated that a little better.

J

Hey francis indeed,.

J

First of all, thank you very much for agreeing to uh present to us tonight and sticking through the.

J

Early portion of tonight's show, where you had to listen to some you're, welcome some other topics.

J

um I guess a question for myself and the others, probably as well, when you're going through the.

J

Processes, do you still have to go through the cpcn process at the maryland psc, for all your projects.

K

We don't have to no that's the beauty, and that works both ways: beauty for us and beauty for.

K

You as the county uh in that anything under two megawatts does not have to go through the.

K

Cpcn process, which then I'm sure you've heard over the last year, there's been a big hubbub.

K

About the public service commission's preemption, their ability to allow a project to move forward.

K

Even if the county was not in favor of it, um although they do provide, you know, deference and.

K

Do consider the counties and the local communities concerns or questions about a solar project.

K

The community solar projects really are permitted through the local jurisdictions.

J

Thank you now there may be one or two that decided to go outside that route, because.

K

They might not have gotten the answer that they were looking for from the county. It's.

K

Like you know, if, if dad won't, let me do it, let's go to mom and see what she says.

K

But very that's very few and far between. Thank you for that clarification. So I.

C

Yeah, I just had a quick uh point of clarification real fast, so you said that basically, the maximum.

C

Size, so the maximum size is two megawatts, but you wouldn't want anything smaller. So basically.

C

Any community solar project is essentially going to be 2 megawatts. um No, no thank you for pointing.

K

That out there are, you will see some on the cube that are, you know, 500, kilowatts or 750 kilowatts.

K

There are situations um where a developer might be able to make a project like that economically.

K

Viable um particularly- and I again I have I'm just using this as an example, I don't have any specific.

K

Specific statistics or or examples that I can give you. But if a non-profit, for example,.

K

Was willing to or anyone doesn't even have to be, a non-profit if someone was willing just.

K

Out of the goodness of their heart to allow their land, whether it was a rooftop, a parking.

K

Lot or a a barren piece of land to be used for solar um for free, uh yes, smaller.

K

Smaller projects could certainly be, you know, be financially viable um if there were some other.

K

Grant um bus there were maryland energy administration grants to help some of the.

K

Smaller projects in smaller communities that wanted to host the solar project to do that so.

K

There are smaller projects, but in general most uh developers will go for the largest two megawatts.

K

To get the economies of scale in order to be able to offer that savings to the right pair.

C

Yeah and I think that jives, uh similarly to what jeff shaw had spoken to when he speaks about.

C

Solar development in our maryland region that it needs to be a particular size for it to really.

C

Thank you, you're welcome.

A

I I have no further questions uh if there are no further any.

A

Any further questions by the committee uh by the uh uh the task force members.

C

um Sorry I had one last question, the so generally the sorry you call it the citing company or.

C

Committee, this this subscriber organization. Yes, sorry, the subscriber organization- is that.

C

Usually have been seen: that's more non-profit or for-profit groups, um the subscriber organizations.

K

Are mostly for-profit groups um because they're, the ones that are investing they're, putting the.

K

Money up front to do all of the development, um and you know they negotiate with the landowner.

K

They go through the site development process. They go through the application process with.

K

The public service commission, I mean there's a lot of money to be spent before a project goes wide.

K

And so that requires a lot of investment up front, because you know you don't really get.

K

Paid until you start generating kilowatt hours and selling those kilowatt hours.

A

And just a final qualification from my side, uh frannie.

K

um You know that's a good question, um I don't so. No one subscriber can subscribe to more than.

K

200 kilowatt hours of a project, let's, let's go back and make sure I've got that straight. So.

K

Where is it um there? Next next slide? I think yeah.

K

Yeah, so that was for the low, moderate yeah. So no one.

K

Yeah wasn't on this slide so but but there is no one yeah, no one subscriber.

K

Can utilize more than 200 kilowatt hours, and you can't have more. You can't.

K

No more than 20 of the subs of the system can be subscribed by the maximum got it got. It.

A

Okay, so so yeah, I think the answer is yes, but I don't think it would be in their best interest.

K

To do so right, right, right, okay, uh it's a little complicated, yeah yeah and no worries there, and I.

A

Appreciate your uh your input to us on behalf of the committee members, I want to thank you franny.

A

For presenting and giving us your thoughts about this and what you thought was uh you know.

A

How it works and and uh some of the features of it so thank you very much.

A

And yes, indeed, thank you for waiting. uh We very much appreciate it. You're welcome and um if you.

K

Have any other questions on how you know how to get a hold of me and um you'll? Certainly.

K

Follow up by email if necessary, um but thank you very much for your consideration. Thank you.

K

For thinking of me and have a wonderful evening, okay, thank you very much. You too.

K

Should I go or should I stay, do you still have things you know yeah, I mean we're just going.

A

To talk about community solar right now and go through this document, you're welcome to stay.

A

uh That would be interesting, I'll just go on mute and listen. Okay with that, uh let's uh get to.

A

um Thank you very much. Let's get to the community solar uh uh draft less and uh um let's uh dive in.

A

Right now, uh lassa vitomine uh with number one, which is the definition of community solar and.

A

um Unless- and I spoke about this, uh there is, um and uh we were, the definition is to the right.

A

On your document here, which is, of course just what the maryland code defines community solar, we were.

A

At less's recommendation uh we were just simply going to reference the code and not put the.

A

Definition in uh partly because if the code is uh updated at some point we'll, we would then have to.

A

Update this document uh or a recommendation so we'll recommend your recommendation. Less is that.

A

We just for definition, just stated as seen in this, uh the meaning indicated as a public.

A

Utilities, article of the maryland code- section 7 306.2. I think that's a that's reasonable um and I.

A

Don't want to use any other different definition that you have under here that some of the other.

A

Systems, you know some of the other counties have undertaken. So do you want to comment on that? Last.

F

uh Certainly so, just stepping back for a minute the the way this whole community, solar.

F

And the subsequent utility scale sections are: what I've tried to do is take all of the pull.

F

Out examples from all of the county ordinances you had in that original report. The background report.

F

And the addendum, and and rather than you have task force members having to parse through all of that.

F

Put them right here in the appropriate sections to try to give some ideas of how other counties.

F

Have approached this, and I've done this, both for the community solar section and the utility scale.

F

Now, for community solar broadly, um there is an education effort and and as francis noted.

F

This is a still view to somewhat of a even though it's not a new technology, there's still a both a.

F

Public and local government education effort underway so that people understand this and.

F

That it is different from utility scale and and some of the examples here, many counties are still.

F

As as they're updating their code looking to split this off, but in a lot of these codes, they're still.

F

Lumped in with utility scale and as francis noted they're, not utility scale, they are different.

F

And so, as as the task force looks at it, and it said it makes a lot of sense to treat it.

F

Separately as its own type of development, uh having said that, I, as the chair summarized for the.

F

Definition um that is defined very explicitly in state law of how maryland defines what community.

F

Scholar is through this pilot program, and I think anne arundel county is the only.

F

County that really pulled it out as a separate type of entity and named it specifically and.

F

They do reference that code. I think they add in some extra things that really aren't needed from.

F

A legal definition you just reference what the state law is and if that gets changed or updated.

F

That will automatically be reflected in the local code so that that's the proposal as it is.

A

uh Any comments from uh task force, members on this- uh are you in agreement with this definition.

J

Yeah, I think it makes great sense just to reference code and move on sounds good, agreed.

A

Okay, it sounds like we're unanimous on that. If I heard I didn't hear from.

A

Mr thompson, do you agree, mr thompson? Yes, okay, so I think we can uh check that box.

A

uh Less the next is developer notification and communication requirements, um and uh so.

A

I think uh this the question I had about this really was there really a need for it outside of.

A

Other requirements that the developer will have um there was I I think it was here right that.

A

There was a suggestion that perhaps the developer might meet with the community and talk with them.

A

uh That would be a matter of course in some of the zoning right uh requirements. uh If.

A

uh Harry they would have to come in front of a zoning board one day uh to talk about what the.

A

What the plans were for the development of a community solar of a certain size.

D

Yeah, because we have it lumped in with all utility types, we have utility miner versus utility major.

D

We would consider this utility major that would require a board of appeals, public hearing.

D

Yes, so so, uh and- and I just want to ask the task force members to me- it does not seem like we.

A

We ought to have um an additional meeting uh pro. You know in addition to that requirement,.

A

uh uh The public will get a chance to weigh in if they had concerns about the project.

A

uh At that meeting, so um I I don't my own view of this and I don't want to speak for the other.

A

Task force members, I don't see it being needed and I'd like to hear from others.

J

I'm in agreement, I'm okay with striking it and moving on yeah.

C

Same I mean I don't want us to necessarily overburden a process that already exists.

B

Yeah it's complicated, as is so yes, yeah yeah, so I think we're less. I think we're in agreement to.

A

Strike that uh and so we'll take out number two and number three uh really uh the integration.

A

uh Great integration, obviously, that has to be done they have to at some point, come to mr shaw.

A

And speak with him, um so I don't think there's anything, mr shaw: is there anything special? We.

A

Need to say here I know since it's under two megawatts, we don't have to go to pjm.

A

um Is there anything we need to uh emphasize here? Obviously, the developer will have to come.

A

To you to present our you know, to give you their plan for interconnection now, I think.

J

We could remove this as well. I think franny did a good job in her presentation. Walking us through.

J

And letting us know that the interconnection application is part of the process for the.

J

Developers so this is already covered in going through the process of community solar at the psc.

A

Anyone else on the uh on the task board.

B

I agree to strike it: okay, okay, uh I think we're all in agreement left to strike that section.

A

Got that now we come to number four. The next agenda item under uh community solar was where.

A

It should be allowed, and uh I mean uh I think you know I went through these definitions. Less.

A

uh The one thing I'm you know I would say two things one is we have a. I would like to include.

A

Language in here that uh that references, the study we are doing uh that's giving.

A

Recommendation of where to fight solar in the county so that I would like perhaps.

A

Cited here right uh since we're gonna have uh uh where we'd want it now I know uh anne arundel. I.

A

Tend to agree that there are places where we don't want it for sure, right and, um for example,.

A

You know uh in agricultural preservation areas, priority preservation, etc, etc, right uh habitat.

A

For forest, I think there are some of the considerations that we do want to keep in.

A

uh On my views, so could you say a few words about that and then uh I of course I don't know, maybe.

A

Harry can speak to issues of this other portion of residential districts and industrial parks.

F

Certainly so you know from my perspective and and my research, it makes absolute sense.

F

To allow community solar in industrial and commercial zones.

F

And I really think the question is when you get to the residential areas, where do you want to.

F

Allow it um and your agricultural area and clearly, I think, allowing some of those zones.

F

And I will have to refer to harry on this as well, for the specific zoning codes to kind of use. It.

I

It would make sense to allow that in some of those areas, anne arundel has done a good job about kind.

F

Of highlighting where they within those areas, they don't want it. So you know they talk about.

F

Sensitive areas, uh habitat, uh etc, rural legacy areas ag preservation area. I think that's up to.

F

The county, based on the amount that they have in these different areas and would they allow.

F

A little bit of community within there or not and remember this is not utility scale, so you could.

F

Have an option to say we might allow a certain amount within those areas up to some aggregate.

I

Acreage limit or not- or you could just say within those sub areas within those zones, you're.

I

Going to say no, and that's where I need a little guidance is to to where you want to take this and.

F

I can work with terry to develop very specific language using the county's zoning codes, etc.

C

So is this something that we want to table until we get our report back from.

C

For our gis sighting thing and use that as work, I'm using that as a tool to.

C

Define this I think we could. I was hoping that we maybe could include language in that.

A

Basically, uh almost like a flow down in a contract that cites all that information, but you're.

A

Recommending, maybe we table this until we actually see the findings provided by the consultant.

I

Yeah, okay, we can work, walk through and visually identify. What does that impact? Look like what does.

C

This you know if, if we're following, you know how many folks know what their role, what the, what the.

C

Rural legacy areas look like that sort of thing like. I think it would be helpful to look at kind.

C

Of more of a visual of what, um and maybe it's not after our report but or the um assessment from the.

C

Chesapeake conservancy, but I think as you're starting to look at some of these. If you start.

C

Looking at these zoning areas and and legacy areas that we have and where we actually have easements.

C

And stuff, just kind of getting the visual picture of what that looks like, I think, can help us.

C

Make determinations yes, and I mean I think I I think I I don't want it in those locations myself.

A

Right, I mean and- and I think for me, especially with community solar, the question for me that.

A

I would like to hear other people weigh in on is in particular it's the residential. I do think it.

A

Could be appropriate to put it in some kind of residential area so harry? Do you have any thoughts.

A

About that about different zoning there that we have to consider yeah yeah. I um I liked what you.

D

Suggested um you know um that it we need to make reference to our eventual solar sighting map, so.

D

While les has given us um some guidance here on, you know a beginning framework.

D

um I could see that if we were to, you know, take from our current zoning ordinance that.

D

It's allowed in certain zones and the part, I would add you know just um brainstorming ahead when the.

D

Solar sighting map is ready is on the condition that it is a I'm going to use a term. A solar.

D

Plus overlay per the solar siding map versus a solar, negative overlay, because.

D

We don't want to say it's allowed in these zones blanketly if our solar sighting map.

D

Identifies a bad location versus a good location, so I I think the solar sighting map.

D

Needs to be included in the final determination of where we're saying they can be in allowed. So.

D

The thing about this community solar is the more flexible right. It's it's, the more difficult to.

D

Picture how big a thing we're trying to regulate and therefore, where should we or should we not put.

D

It so can't be over 2 megawatt, and yet it could be, you know 1.99 megawatts, so it might as well.

D

Be 2 megawatt from the perspective of um you know how it affects the neighbors, um and yet it could.

D

Be very small right: it could be 750 megawatt like she said, you know one. You know less than.

D

One-Fourth the size of the two megawatt, um so I I would agree I mean I think, because the size is.

D

So um broad, you know we're told it will probably not likely see small ones, but what? If small ones.

D

Become practical and so um yeah, I think I think a broad range of zoning categories is appropriate.

D

um I, like less's, suggestion that maybe there has to be certain acreage limits in certain zones.

D

um She was describing that on average, um you're gonna need at least eight acres, approximately.

D

For the first megawatt and and most people are doing at least one megawatt, but anyway.

D

So I I I do agree with um bonnie that you're not ready to make a you know a final determination.

D

But perhaps les and I can work together to bring you um a more refined framework.

D

To look at next month and we do look forward to having the solar siding map the following month,.

B

So so would you see I just in, for instance, a subdivision application.

B

There could possibly be a small solar community solar system set up as part of the attraction.

B

Of the subdivision, exactly I mean moving forward, we could have a subdivision who is required to.

D

Provide certain open space- um and you know perhaps as a solar incentive in our zoning regulations,.

D

We say open space can be dedicated to community solar and um and just like they create. You know.

D

They provide a tot lot over here and and um and have to preserve forest over there. They might.

D

Offer up a community solar field for the community? You know the one question I had.

D

About the the whole, this whole community, I'm going to take this opportunity to interject.

D

So in theory there could be correct me if I'm wrong, but in theory there could be a community.

D

Solar facility in charlotte hall, but I as a resident of ridge, could subscribe.

J

Certainly, as well as anyone from charles and calvert as long as they're on the smeko system,.

D

That's correct, yeah interesting. Do I have to pay to subscribe it you? There is a subscription fee.

J

Depending on how the subscribing organization sets it up, but then I think I'm going to recoup.

D

More benefit to to to offset my subscription fee and then sign, that's the hope, yeah interesting.

A

uh I think that's a uh harry. Your point is well taken, especially about I think and uh mr thompson.

A

Your point about uh perhaps a development that wants this, so I think uh I think, let's les says.

A

That plan, I I like um the suggestions made by both bonnie and and and uh uh harry and and.

A

Mike and we'll go back, we'll refine this a bit right. You based on our maps that we get from the.

A

Consultants and that uh we, uh you know, I think we do want to allow in some residential areas.

A

Right uh and I think maybe we should think about what uh you know- some different alternatives for.

A

uh You know uh uh limits so to speak in a in just a in one particular area. We heard from.

A

Franny that they can't be adjacent to each other right in parcels of property.

A

But there may be other, you know there may be a a limit that we want to set.

A

Especially in you know, a residential area, so is that a sufficient guidance for you last.

A

To go back and sort of craft this a little bit more and bring it back to the committee.

F

Yes, I'll work with harry on the specific zoning codes and and we'll start um with the basic.

I

Framework and then once the citing map is done, that can inform a little more of the specifics.

I

And maybe looking at some limits as if, for example, you don't want it on a priority.

I

Preservation area et cetera, but I think, with the bureau- don't encode that music on that.

A

Okay, uh I think that's good we're not quite there yet left, so uh we will yeah. We certainly.

A

Welcome your your further feedback on this for us, so that we can, you know, maybe get a uh uh a.

A

Recommendation here that uh you know that I think takes into account all the facts that we have: okay,.

C

Yeah, I would um I would encourage everyone on the committee to check out the act. The saint.

C

Mary's county gis that's available on the government web website. um It.

C

Should it'll let out land use, it lays out zoning. It shows you.

C

You know the different measures, with the exception of actual easements.

C

um And so folks can start getting comfortable with the with the different zoning and land use.

C

um That we have in st mary's. Thank you. Thank you for that.

A

Okay, uh yes, thank you and uh I think that's a good suggestion and.

A

Certainly homework for me, if not some other people, uh so I appreciate that.

A

uh So that um so that's number four left that we've uh we've completed and so in a sense that's.

A

Tabled again to get a little bit additional information, um so number five is, uh you know.

A

Special exemption and conditional use, uh you know, I don't know how this applies and wondered if you.

A

Or harry could discuss this a little bit. uh Do we want to consider special exceptions.

A

uh Maybe it's too early to say that, given that we need to have the other recommendation above.

F

So this is really basically, um how do you apply for allowing a community solar product within.

F

A specific zone, and- and this really is kind of contingent on what st mary's is comfortable with.

F

Other counties with the examples and research I've provided here: do it all sorts of ways uh some do.

F

It by special exception some do it by conditional use others, it's just a permitted use or permitted.

F

By right, so you really have a lot of flexibility here, there's no real pattern or thing. I can pull.

F

Out from other counties is to say what is is appropriate or not so harry. If you want to weigh.

F

In on what you would think would be reasonable here uh that could inform going forward very.

D

Good, so um when we were discussing the previous page number, two um developer notification and.

D

Communication requirements- and it was, you know I was describing as if they were all conditional use.

D

Before the board of appeals, which requires legal advocacy, advertising posting of signs on the.

D

Property and mailing to every property owner within 200 feet, um but is that appropriate for.

D

The smaller community systems- and so we have two ways of requiring development to go through.

D

Public hearings, and sometimes some development, has to go through public hearings twice so.

D

um We have the planning commission so if it was decided that a development of a certain size.

D

Had to go to the planning commission for concept approval that requires a public hearing, the other.

D

um Situation is, then, if they need conditional use so there's times when they would actually.

D

Have to go to two public hearings: one's for the planning commission once for the conditional use.

D

I'm not advocating that I'm. What I'm my point is um our director's feeling generally, is. If it's.

D

Something that's going to be the slightest bit controversial, and the neighbors would want to know.

D

We should have a public hearing, but but we shouldn't have to have two.

D

One should be enough now to give you an example of something that happens in.

D

Different levels of development that trigger different things so.

D

Here in st mary's, county mining is very common, gravel, gravel mines and if you do less than.

D

Five acres of disturbed area: you can have a gravel mine approved without a public hearing.

D

But if you go over five acres, you need a public hearing and so I think we'll.

D

Look at this acreage thing again, um and- and it would also it's also usually.

D

Much like less's examples: our ordinances are similar. It's also um depending on the zone.

D

um You do certain zones, you think people need more notice, so you would require the public hearing.

D

Other zones, you think um you know like industrial or I noticed one of the counties- calls it.

D

Well, I don't remember the exact but like a preferred development area. So so we know.

D

We're going to have development there, so we shouldn't have to have a public hearing.

D

It's just more development there, so I I guess my the bottom line is. I think we need to work on this.

D

And um flesh it out a bit for you and I agree with you harry harry. I agree that um uh I would.

A

In particular, what we're concerned about, I think here is residential.

A

Is community solar near residential areas, and we would certainly want at least one hearing.

A

That allowed the community to express any concerns that they might have about uh a community solar.

A

Development, so uh I think we can wordsmith that and I think you're right, whereas in industrial.

A

Sites I it doesn't seem to me right or brownfield sites that we're going to need a great deal of.

A

Of of hearing on that, uh unless again it's close to some residents, residential development.

A

So uh with that, I guess uh we'll uh we'll send it back uh back to you last to work with.

A

uh Harry on this right, unless other task force members have any additional comments to that on.

A

On this number on number four, I believe well and that's what I would ask is it.

D

Dr kane, you stated that um that you're in favor of requiring a public hearing um it would certainly.

D

Help, if you know if the task force is ready to to have a consensus on that simple statement.

D

Yes, no or we're not sure yet, because then, if it's, if everyone thinks of public hearing.

D

Is appropriate moving forward then les and I can um craft that more completely.

D

But I don't want to be, I don't. I don't want to push that side. Yes,.

A

I understand, thank you, uh thank you for the prompt uh and I think yes, so I opened it up.

A

For discussion, then, that you know uh in particular, if we put community solar near a residential area.

A

My understanding from what you said, I don't want to force the developer to go through. Maybe two.

A

Hearings, uh but I do want them to go through at least one and from what you said. I understood.

A

Harry that they, in some cases they may not have to go through even.

A

One, and so I would want language in there that would require them to go through at least one.

A

Do do task force members have any thoughts on that.

B

uh Since it's a community project I would, I would say that would be appropriate that they have a.

B

At least a hearing in inviting the general public.

C

Yeah, I would, I would say, that's fair. I think that we could word it. So if, if a public hearing is.

C

Not a part of the um established process, it is a requirement um for one to be conducted.

A

Thank you, bonnie. Thank you mike uh jeff.

J

Yeah, I can agree to it. um I see where it's needed. Okay, so I think, uh however little direction.

A

Harry we uh we provide- and I think that is uh uh uh you can see where we're thinking.

A

Maybe a question I have do: we need it for other areas other than residential, uh apart from.

A

uh You know the regular requirements right would we need uh so, for example, uh in industrial.

A

Districts or uh some other areas we're going to probably try to not have them uh work in.

A

Historic districts or or other things or rural legacy areas, uh maybe so we'll have to wait.

A

I guess to find out what the nature conservancy comes with with that sort of those categories, but.

A

Is that does anyone have any any other thoughts on the other areas that we should consider.

A

Okay, okay, yeah. I I think that's going to, I think, that'll feed off of the answers that we.

C

Have question number four.

A

Okay, so so I think we have agreement, then, on certainly on residential areas, that we want to.

A

Have at least one uh public hearing, and uh so if you would, let's working with.

A

Harry on this we'll craft, uh some suggestions I'd be happy to work with you as well. On this.

F

I got it and yes, the feedback. The task force is giving on these.

F

Certainly, it is helpful and gives me just enough direction to start putting pen to paper on this.

A

um So we went through, I think, five, four and five, and now we have six and seven uh remaining.

A

um I'm sorry there's still more uh and I think yeah we're already over six o'clock. I think.

A

uh If it was okay with task force, members we get through a couple more of these. It works.

A

Bonnie, is it good for you to continue it's uh after six.

A

Yeah, yes, mr thompson: we'll go about 15, 15 or 20, more minutes; okay,.

A

Okay, so uh we went through four and five less and uh now aggregate or individual size limits.

A

On projects, um so uh anne arundel has some uh some really in terms of area right. How much uh net area.

A

In a site or 20 acres right, whichever is less so there's a that's, really less a requirement that.

A

The the development that the two megawatts does not take up more than 20 acres is that correct.

F

Correct and and anne arundel is one of the few counties that have specifically for community.

F

Pulled it out and defined it, I think, in a better way,.

F

Than just lumping it in as utility or basically similar in scale to utility scale,.

F

Kent is the other one. I would highlight here just uh noting that within agricultural zoning.

F

Districts, they have a five acre limit now, as [ __ ] said. That may not be enough. That's roughly.

F

At best, one megawatt or a little under um that, that probably is not enough to make many projects.

F

Viable, uh so they don't have any size limit in other allowed districts. You might want to consider.

F

If you consider size district a limit, it would be very. It should be in a very specific set of zones.

F

uh Broadly, I think you've got the hard cap already of 2 megawatts so you're at most uh 20 acres.

F

At most- and you may do better as panel efficiency improves, uh that you may need a smaller footprint.

F

Going forward, so I'm not sure you really for community need a hard limit across the.

F

Board at a minimum either don't have one or just have one in a very narrow circumstance.

A

Yeah, I I I mean I don't want to um set barriers to community solar, especially given that it's so.

A

uh Infrequent and so a size limit would definitely be a disincentive, uh so I think, and and as frannie.

A

Sort of indicated I mean the the largest size is going to probably be under 20 acres, no matter what.

A

um You know or very likely, under 20 acres, so I I don't think we should put certainly uh individual.

A

Size limits on the projects since they will naturally occur, given the given the requirements.

A

Of community solar, I agree. I do not think that we need to have size limits. I think the limitations.

C

That we're going to place based off of zoning is already going to be a sufficient enough limitation.

A

Okay, if there's no more comments by other community, any task force members and I'd suggest.

A

That we eliminate that less okay, okay, thank you, uh the setback requirements, um so this is, I think,.

A

uh Important uh along with any kind of screening requirements that we've sort of heard uh and so.

A

Here, I don't think I've done a lot of work on this. I know again um there. There certainly should be.

A

Setback requirements, especially if it's in a residential area, so I feel strongly about that.

A

And then you would think right that if the farm uh has it as well, uh there'd have to be.

A

Some kind of setback requirement for the farm if they there was an adjacent farm that was nearby.

A

uh And so uh do you want to say a few words about? What do you think are the principal considerations.

A

Here uh on this last yeah, so again from the notes, counties are all over the maps with setbacks in.

F

General, and that is the same with community solar, basically and again, I think harry can.

F

Weigh in on this on how setbacks go in st mary's, but I think a couple of key points to consider is.

F

In a residential area, would the uh setback for an accessory structure uh be sufficient and again.

F

We're gonna be talking in a minute about screening requirements uh that will block this off from from.

F

Certain areas- and I think, where you might have a slightly higher setback, is basically where.

F

You would have um residences directly adjacent to the project uh and that you don't necessarily need.

F

Setbacks as much uh in in your agricultural areas or your commercial or industrial areas, but where.

F

You are adjacent to residences, that's where you might want to consider a slightly larger setback.

F

In conjunction with with screening, uh a couple counties also restrict roads and have greater.

F

Setbacks if there's a road or right-of-way uh from there and again, I think the number like queen anne.

F

Sets it at 300 feet from the nearest slot line of a single family, cluster or sliding scale a lot.

F

Whether that's appropriate or not for anne arundel is a question. Kent actually doesn't set.

F

Direct, they just use the accessory lots in their zone, the accessory setbacks and their.

F

Zones for accessory structures, they do have a height restriction, though of 38 feet in.

F

The agricultural zoning and 45 and other allowed districts no other county that I researched really.

F

Does a height restriction that that they've specifically put in for uh solar, so 50 feet.

F

Could be a starting point of discussion and and work from there and I'll turn over to harry to.

F

Offer the county specific perspective here, so um we do have height restrictions um depending on.

D

Zone and so I don't think, we need to create special height restrictions for solar panels.

D

Because those we already have height restrictions for structures in general, um the interesting thing.

D

About setbacks is so um yeah reading that some of these places have pretty extreme setbacks and yet.

D

That applies to a solar panel, but would it apply to a barn so a barn? You know a very.

D

Large agricultural building might actually be more imposing on the neighbor than than some.

D

Solar panels, it you know, could actually block the view cast more shade. What have you so frankly, I I.

D

Think we should just let the principal structure setbacks of the zone apply now, generally speaking,.

D

And the reason I'm saying principle is because we already agreed in a previous meeting that.

D

Accessory solar accessory to the principal use on the property, because we were talking about the.

D

The ground mount that's serving the house or the ground mount that's serving the office building.

D

Those are going to use accessory structure setbacks, because that is an accessory structure.

D

um But now we're talking about community, that is, um you know, could potentially up to be.

D

um 20 acres of solar panels, and um so I'm going to use the mining example again.

D

Mining is a pretty intense activity, bulldozers front, end: loaders, dump trucks, noise, dust.

D

The the st mary's county zoning ordinance wanted you to have a 200-foot setback.

D

From property lines well, the state of maryland says you only need 25. and, um and anyway,.

D

Other counties maybe had something larger too, and it went to state, uh went to court and um and.

D

The mining operations won, the minimum setback for mining is 25 feet here in st mary's county.

D

Though the board of appeals, when it goes to conditional use, can hear the neighbors concerns.

D

And ask for more because the neighbors are asking for more, but I don't think we should impose more.

D

If no neighbors are objecting, so I would go with the principal structure: setbacks.

D

um And and therefore, wouldn't have to create any special setbacks. Because when you start to cut in.

D

You're taking away, I wish you could see my hands because I talk with my hands.

D

um You uh or maybe you can I'm on screen so anyway, um the I'm following you, okay and it's.

E

Mr thompson's whole point about the roof setbacks right. So if you start to impose these setbacks, you.

D

Are taking away our opportunity to have bigger more effective um solar fields? So I would say we.

D

Don't need special setbacks for solar panels, um so if, if what less could have could tweak it to say.

D

The principal setbacks of the zone would apply principle um structure, setbacks.

F

Got it yeah? I think that that's right uh too. I agree with that harry. I don't want to put any.

A

Additional uh requirements on here- uh and there are still you know- the screening requirements.

A

As well that maybe you know that maybe have a you know that we can address and, as you say,.

A

You know when this is brought forward in a hearing.

A

uh If it's close to a property line, then people can ask for either greater setbacks or greater.

A

Screening perhaps correct yeah, that's the whole point of the public hearing is: is the.

D

The public speaks up says, don't you dare approve that it's going to cause me all this harm.

D

And then people negotiate, you know. So that's when the applicant steps up and proffers well.

D

How about we set it back this much or how about we screen it that much and if they can work it.

D

All out there that evening, everyone walks away. You know, satisfied to a degree but yeah. It's.

D

Very common in commercial development that these setbacks and buffer yards um come up.

A

Okay, so I think uh we we do have some. uh I think we have agreement there uh last on.

A

To to develop that with harry uh and that language and we'll we'll vote on that next time,.

A

uh Screening requirements, so you want to say a few words about this. I do think there should be.

A

Screening requirements under certain conditions, uh and so could you say a few words about that.

F

So every county that addresses community a solar, either directly or indirectly.

F

Does require uh screening requirements; um typically, it has to be uh while there is there's.

F

A fencing requirement, typically for security purposes, um for the screening is a vegetated.

F

Buffer uh of a very differing width, some are uh 10 feet. Wide six feet wide are 50 feet wide.

F

To me, it makes sense some some, like queen anne's literally has pages of their ordinance very.

F

Specifically outlining how the the vegetated buffer works, others reference their their.

F

Landscape manuals to me, I think you would want to when the requirement for screening say mixed.

F

Vegetation, uh you could certainly take advantage of the existing vegetation. That's on site.

F

To do that, as was done shown in the presentation example, uh you have a question here of. Would you.

F

Want to require, or at least have a preference for pollinator habitat as well, and also then do you.

F

Use native species now the challenge with native species is that many of those are not evergreen.

F

So in the winter months the the vegetated buffer may not be there um and you have a visibility.

A

Yeah uh and harry: do we have any and is there any uh uh models that we could use in the county.

A

To give us guidance on how big such a buffer, a screening requirement should be whether it's.

A

Using existing vegetation or not, um it does seem again that you know near uh it may be worthwhile.

A

uh In certain certain places, I'm not sure exactly where certain near residencies right right uh and.

A

Possibly near certain kinds of roads, if there are any scenic roads that we have in uh in the county,.

A

Right, um could you do you have any thoughts on on how big such a buffer should be and what.

A

Should be the uh potential elements of it? I think what I would like to do is distribute to the task.

D

Force um for discussion at the next meeting, what our current um buffer yard requirements.

D

Which does have special provision regarding the scenic byways, because.

D

We do have some designated by the state and um it is so. We have three um buffer yards a.

D

B and c they come in different widths and different quantities of vegetation.

D

Sometimes they can require a fence or a berm and the way you determine which one you need.

D

Is what is your proposed use and we know what that is, um and then what is the adjacent use.

D

um That you're building next to and when you. If, when you see that, chart and see the buffer yards.

D

You'll, perhaps you'll think that that's adequate um or or perhaps you know think it needs some.

D

Additional screening, the um my experience is that bar screening is, is pretty intense, and so we.

D

Oftentimes have people going back to the board of appeals.

D

After their first public hearing of concept approval they now they go to the board of appeals.

D

Asking for their buffer yards to be reduced. So um if that's all right with the task force.

A

uh Yes, uh thank you harry. I think that it we would like to see those and- uh and I think that, if.

A

The task force members think they're. You know they can be tweaked to make them uh uh more.

A

Conducive to community solar, then we can do that at that time, but I think giving.

A

Those to us, I think, will be very helpful now um what the other two points that les brought up.

D

Perhaps the task force is ready to make a recommendation on that.

D

Number one the pollinators and pollinator plantings because that's not in our current.

D

Buffer yards and the other one was native species. That's not in our current. Our.

D

Buffer yards actually dictate the need for some uh a mix, um but not native species.

A

So I would um personally, I would like to put in pollinator um recommendations, not requirements and.

A

That the pollinator recommendations be not part of the buffer necessarily but the part of the site.

A

So, for example, uh a recommendation to plant clover, uh you know in the uh in the field.

A

And uh that would be pollinator friendly, that there's, of course, other other species as well.

A

uh Any thoughts from other uh task force, members on the pollinator friendly requirements, yeah.

B

I just would have gifts that you, you create a pollinated pollinator-friendly.

B

Environment in year, one um I'm not sure what you have in year, five or ten or fifteen.

B

um You know it, it does, does it sustain itself is? Is there a requirement to renew it.

B

I'm just not sure how that works.

F

So the way other counties require this and franny touched on. This is for site planning, many as part.

F

Of that and moving forward do require uh some type of operation and maintenance plan.

F

um And if you would do a pollinator cleanly habitat, obviously that would have to be.

F

Maintained in some way- and I think her point- that these are smaller facilities in the utility scale.

F

You don't want to necessarily put too many financial requirements on it. You definitely.

F

Will want to consider, and that will be. The next recommendation is on decommissioning.

F

And you definitely want some type of bond or other acceptable financial agreement in place for that.

F

um If you do operation and maintenance uh and then what else is also thrown into the mix and we'll.

F

Talk about maintenance and operation agreements under recommendation 10 for the requirement.

A

Can other any other, and I mean I think that that's as I said I would like to see it recommend it in.

A

Some ways, but not be necessarily a requirement uh and that that be considered, um that that, whenever.

A

A development is is done that they consider and attempt to put pollinator-friendly.

A

Ground cover or around it, so I at least want that kind of language, but.

A

I'd yield to the other task force members on their thoughts on this.

C

So I'm going to jump in real fast, so rather than necessarily narrow it to pollinators. I I would say.

C

That we would want folks to to be practicing good soil stewards. More importantly than anything else,.

C

In making sure that they, what other managing the land under the under the solar panels,.

C

Regardless of whether it's pollinators or as we've discussed, there's different ways to.

C

Actually continue to farm the land, sometimes some of that some of that research is being developed.

C

Is that I would say I would encourage that we put in their um basically soil care best practices.

C

I think there's a different way to do that verbiage, but um I think going more that direction.

C

Can can make a little bit more sense.

A

Adjust farming issues and we could also put that under other requirements as well right les.

A

Yes, um has anyone ha any other uh thought on pollinator requirements, and I agree by the way.

A

By bonnie, I definitely agree with that and I think it's a good suggestion, especially given uh all the.

A

Farms here uh being able to say that I think, is important. um uh Any other thoughts on on sort of.

A

Pollinators associated with the uh screening or or perhaps in the other requirements that people.

A

Have any thoughts on it? So as far as screening is concerned, it is there an issue where you can get.

B

A little bit, I guess extreme, I would say low-level glare from sunrise sunset on neighboring houses or.

B

Buildings, or whatever that has that issue come up, is that is that a problem.

A

That's a good question, I don't know the answer to that and that would go uh you're suggesting that there might be a height requirement on the.

A

On the screening, then right, I'm not sure how you saw this so most of the way the county yeah.

F

Sorry so most of the way the counties handle that is, they do take into account that the vegetated.

F

Screening should basically reduce the glare make the panels invisible and that's why some of them.

F

Say year-round screening explicitly, which I think you need to have with mixed vegetation. uh You need.

F

An evergreen component there, otherwise you get no benefits from that in the winter months. Okay,.

D

um Dr kane, your um recommendation for pollinators, um you know my experience is when we recommend.

D

People do things they rarely do it um if it if it costs extra or deviates from their original plan.

D

um Thanks for the recommendation, but no thanks um perhaps um perhaps to phrase it that if you plan x.

D

Number of feet of pollen- well, I I mean definitely the pollinator um plantings between the panels can.

D

Be done um but getting back to the buffer yard or the um the screening. Perhaps um a certain.

D

Quality quality quantity of pollinator planting would reduce your buffer yard. I mean that see.

D

That's the way to get people to do something. Is you got to give them something in exchange.

D

Give me give me 20 right, give me 20 feet of pollinator and I'll take away five feet of buffer.

D

Yard right, very, very good, just food and shows you you're an expert on this. uh I agree with that.

A

And I I think perhaps we should discuss this further uh prior to the next meeting.

A

uh Because I think we need to, we need to just sort of get a better handle on. Maybe some of those.

A

Trade-Offs that you're suggesting um harry- and so I think, we'll table that. I also want to note.

A

That I'm running over 6 30 here so uh I think I might move to adjourn even though we're not.

A

Finished is that okay uh less, I know uh you might have one you want to add any announcements, less.

F

So uh at the moment I think that takes us through the bulk of where I I would like to get task force.

F

Guidance, some of the remainder recommendations are already filled in, or I think I know where.

F

The task force is going to go with them, so yeah, that's more than enough for me to work with harry.

F

And you over the interim, to put pen to paper and come up with something more specific. I've got some.

F

General guidance here on where you want to go and where you don't want to go. So that's very helpful.

F

The other, just very quick general now would be.

F

Take a look at the utility scale I put in the similar data points. I expect that at.

F

Least in some of these, the way you go with community will inform where you're going.

F

uh With utility scale, but there may be, there are going to be some other areas, I'm sure.

F

That will be different because of the scale, scope and size of the utility scale projects.

F

The last update I'll give is for the next meeting. I would like to take a brief.

F

Amount of time to give an update on where the psc's rule making is with respect to.

F

The local zoning process, as well as several pieces of legislation that are in the maryland.

F

General assembly that that could affect the committees, I mean the task force's work as well.

A

Okay, thank you. Yes, I think that's a great idea, uh thank you for for keeping us abreast.

A

Of that and uh I'm glad you agree that we got, we gave you some additional direction.

A

uh For you to come back with some recommendations, and yes, indeed, the utility scale solar- will.

A

uh Certainly, you know we we're going to have to run through that in detail. Just like we did.

A

Community solar, so if you have any specific suggestions task force members, please share.

A

Them with less uh and uh we will get them into that document before the next meeting.

A

um That's all I have I. I would uh uh make a motion to adjourn a second, I second, okay, all in favor aye.

A

Hi aye right. Thank you uh all task force members also our visitors. Thank you very much.

A

For contributing to uh these this, uh this report and uh your your suggestions have been absolutely.

A

Invaluable and I very much appreciate everything that each of the task force members have been.

A

Doing to help bless, sort of develop and us develop. I think a useful report for the commissioners.

A

And thank you harry uh and sandy you're welcome, stay safe. Everyone get well. You.