Tennessee House of Representatives 112th House Criminal Justice Committee, 31 Mar 2021

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: House Criminal Justice Subcommittee - March 31, 2021 - House Hearing Room 2

Description

House Criminal Justice Subcommittee - March 31, 2021 - House Hearing Room 2

A

It still doesn't exist.

A

It's 903 on wednesday march, the 31st, the house criminal justice subcommittee, is now in session. Madam clerk, please take the roll.

B

Representatives beck curcio.

C

D

Griffey hardaway howell.

E

Lamberth moody.

F

Russell sexton chairman doggett present, mr chairman, you have a quorum. Thank.

A

You ma'am any uh personal orders before we begin this morning, so you know and we're gonna go through the calendar right quickly and look at uh some things that we need to take care of item number one house bill. 14 34 by representative cheryl will be rolled to the last calendar.

A

Item number five house bill 382 by chairman crawford roll one week.

A

House bill 1062 item number nine by chairman hawk roll one week.

A

Item number 19 house bill 1084 by chairman dixie off notice,.

A

Item number 29 house bill 413 by representative lamar, wrote one week: item number 30 house bill 1533 by representative lamar wrote one week.

A

Item number 33 house bill 600 representative hodges roll one week.

A

Item 34 house bill 601, representative hodges rolled to the first calendar of 2022.

A

Item 42 house bill 352 by chairman farmer off notice.

A

And that will complete that order of business.

G

A

Item number two house bill 1430 by chairman moody. She is not in the room, so we'll roll her a few places.

A

See we'll roll three three spots and we'll come up on item number three house bill 1339 by chairman curcio.

H

Thank you, mr chairman, and I do have an amendment coded 5166, which I wish to move.

A

Okay, we need a motion in a second on this before we proceed. Please, okay, amendment number, zero, zero, five, one, six! Six! I need a motion and a second on the amendment.

A

All right, you recognized thank.

H

You, mr chairman, uh the amendment makes the bill. This legislation would allow the court to permit remote test uh permit remote testimony by a forensic analyst and any criminal proceeding, but only if the state has provided a copy of any report produced by the forensic analyst that the state is seeking to admit into evidence through remote testimony at least 15 days prior to the proceeding.

H

Most importantly, the defendant agrees to permit the remote testimony and the court finds the defendant's agreement was knowing and voluntary, and finally that the court and the state agree to permit remote testimony. So everybody involved would agree to allowing this to happen. Otherwise it wouldn't go forward.

A

Okay, thank you. Any questions on the amendment represented back.

I

To the sponsor, you had any pushback from any of the stakeholders.

H

Thank you, mr chairman. uh No, uh no, no pushback, and just to further that point, this bill was actually brought by um representative ogles and I'm carrying it on his behalf. So when he transferred the file to me, we did check to see if we had any any issues and no one reported any.

I

Very good, thank you so much. Thank you.

A

Any other questions any objection to voting on the amendment. Seeing none we're now voting on amendment uh zero, zero, five, one six six to be placed on the house bill, 1339, all those in favor say aye aye those opposed. No, the eyes prevailed. We are now on house bill 1339, as amended.

H

I renew my motion question.

A

Question has been called any objection, seeing none we're now voting on sending house bill 1339 on the full criminal, all those in favor say aye aye, as opposed no the eyes prevail now moving on to full criminal. Thank you.

H

Thank you chairman. Thank you, committee,.

A

Next item: on the calendar um item number four house bill: 1599 by leader, lamberth we're going to roll him five spaces.

A

That brings us back to house bill 1340 by chairman moody.

A

We're gonna roll without objection, we're gonna roll that bill to the hill.

A

Item number six house bill 1171 by chairman terry.

J

Thank you, chairman and committee, and there is an amendment uh 5826.

A

Let's see here, yes, amendment number, zero, zero, five, eight, two six. I need a motion in a second on that all right. You recognized on the amendment.

J

Thank you, chairman committee, uh while the u.s does not have a federal firearms registry nor a plan for confiscation, there is certainly discussion of it, including a bill that has been filed recently entitled the firearm licensing and registration act in 2015.

J

uh The tennessee journal assembly passed public chapter 380, based on anti-commandeering doctrine that says that the state or any local subdivision will not use funds, personnel or property to enforce any federal law that is against tennessee law or constant or the constitution.

J

This bill has two main goals in the event that the feds tried to infringe on our second amendment rights via confiscation or registration. First, it puts teeth in public chapter 380 by adding a class, a misdemeanor to a state or political subdivision, employee that discloses firearm information for the purposes of confiscation or registration, and secondly, it grants a cause of action for firearm owner against an individual who will just who discloses their firearm information for the purposes of registration or confiscation.

J

The bill does have exclusions for criminal investigations or, if required, by an ffl.

A

Thank you for that explanation. Any questions for the sponsor on this amendment question's been called on the amendment, seeing any any objections. Seeing none uh we're now voting to adopt amendment number zero, zero. Five on the house bill, 1171, all those in favor say aye. Those opposed no nice prevail. We are now on 1171, as amended.

A

Representing back.

I

Thank you and chairman terry. So this is not you're trying to do a preemptory um strike here in case, as we said here today. There's no federal registry and there's no no federal requirement, but you're just you're just doing something that you think is prudent uh to head something like that. Often.

J

I

J

A

J

A

Any other questions. The question has been called any objection: cnn we're now voting on sending house bill 1171 as amended on the full criminal. All those in favor say aye. Those opposed. No, the eyes prevail. You move on. Thank you. Thank you. Chairman committee. Next item number, seven house bill 1312 by chairman terry.

A

You have a motion in a second. You recognize.

J

uh Thank you chairman in committee. There is an amendment uh zero, zero, four, two, four three.

A

Motion in a second all right, all right, you recognized on the amendment thank.

J

You, chairman committee, um this issue was brought to me by a constituent and it's it's truly a concept of self-governance. On their part, uh this was a mother whose daughter uh rolled her vehicle in a fatal car accident one one evening uh pictures were taken at the scene and the mother became aware of those pictures and inquired about their potential use, including for training purposes, and she realized that as a parent and as a victim, she did not have parental rights to keep those graphic photos of her daughter confidential.

J

The goal this legislation has amended is to safeguard the privacy of deceased minors. All photographic evidence of a fatal motor vehicle accident that picks a deceased minor at the scene of the accident, is to be treated as confidential and not open to public inspection.

J

But if the custodial parent or legal guardian wishes, they're authorized to waive the confidentiality.

A

Thank you for explanation. Is there any questions for the sponsor on the amendment? Question's been called on the amendment, any objection, seeing now we're now voting on adding I'm sorry, it's gonna be okay. We're now uh voting on adding amendment number zero, zero. Four, two four three on the house bill, 1312, all those in favor say aye as opposed. No the eyes prevail.

A

uh You adopt we're on house bill 1312 as amended.

A

Do you mind withdrawing that, so that uh leader, lambert, can ask a question here. Thank you.

K

Mr evans, I apologize for being a bit late. I was in another committee on the accident reports on this. um When I was reading this amendment and I should have caught you on this beforehand, um is there an exception within this for rule 16 for purposes of discovery, and I I was trying to find that in the amendment- and I knew you'd be ready for that question, but I just want to make sure that we're not affecting discovery. Yes,.

J

Thank you in section one part: three: a restriction of the application rule, 16 of tennessee rules, criminal procedure in a court or the disclosure of information required. So it's excluded. It's in there.

K

Mr chairman, thank you, mr chairman. I just want to get that on the record that it is excluded. I thought we were covered, but just want to make sure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Any other questions for the sponsor, seeing none any objection to the question. Seeing none we're now voting on house bill 1312 as amended all those in favor say aye, those opposed. No, the ice prevail. uh You move on to full criminal.

J

Thank you, chairman committee,.

A

Is she ready, okay,.

A

We're now on item number, eight house bill 109 by chairman hulsey, he's not in here we're going to roll him to the hill.

A

Brings us back to item number four on your calendar item number four by leader, lambert house, bill 1599.

A

Your motion is second you're, recognized famous chairman.

K

In this bill is is exactly as it appears. It is for uh additional assistant, district attorney positions and uh supporting staff.

A

Thank you for explanation. Any questions for the sponsor question has been called any objection. Cnn we're now voting on sending house bill 1599 on the full criminal. All those in favor say aye aye, as opposed no. The ice prevail, move on the full criminal.

A

We're now on item number 10.

A

item number 10 house bill 1433 by chairman holtzclaw.

A

The motion in the secretary recognized.

L

Thank you, chairman committee. You all look very somber this morning.

A

L

uh Hb 1433, it has an amendment which is uh drafting code 5396.

A

53.69, maybe yeah.

L

That is correct.

A

You have a motion, you have a second, you recognize on the amendment and basically what this.

L

This bill does it changes the the charges from a class e to a class c felony when discharging a firearm from an automobile- and you know I reckon I'm got this basically from watching tv and stuff from a standpoint.

L

People don't think a thing about you know if you cut them off, you know used to they blow the horn. Now they pull out a gun and start shooting. So we need to add some stiffer penalties. Maybe to reduce this, if possible,.

A

Represent the back.

I

Morning, chairman, we'll try not to be too somber on you this morning, um chairman moody and I were just discussing- you said from an automobile: does this include any vehicle or just automobiles.

L

It says motor vehicle: okay, that's.

I

That's what I told chairman moody. She did not believe me so I had to. I had to clarify that with you. Thank you.

A

Chairman moody, you have anything you'd like to add to this.

F

I'll, just let it go. Thank you for clarifying that you're.

A

Welcome any other questions, uh leader lamberth question on the minute question has been called on the amendment, any objections, seeing none we're now voting to adopt amendment number zero, zero, five, three, six, nine on the house bill, 1433, all those in favor say aye aye those opposed. No the ice prevail. You adopt we're on house bill 1433, as amended question has been called any objection, seeing none we're now voting on sending house bill 1433 on the full criminal. All those in favor say: aye aye was opposed.

A

No the eyes per vip move on the full criminal.

L

Thank you community members. Thank.

A

L

I, like your jacket,.

A

A

I thought he was talking to me. Maybe not I don't know he was talking to you all right item number 11 house, bill 26 by chairman todd. You have a motion and second you're recognized.

B

Thank you, mr chairman, glad to finally get to see you guys in here y'all been doing a lot of work and staying late. I know house bill 26 is what I'm calling a self-defense cleanup bill. One of our most seasoned attorneys in this building brought this to me a couple of years ago, as we were discussing some other legislation and said that over the years he has found not only from a supreme court decision, but also from talking to other folks doing research that we had an error in the law.

B

That is really a trap for folks, and what it says currently is that you can use the defense of self-defense as long as you're not involved in unlawful activity, and that is the trap. What is unlawful activity and the supreme court told us years ago that that is in fact something that needs to be changed, and so what this does? It defines what that activity is, and so that's that is the essence of this bill. It just puts in code what the definition is, uh what things are excluded from self-defense.

A

Thank you for that. Any questions for our sponsor representative beck.

I

Thank you and to the sponsor I'm a little confused on this and I read it and it's it seems like you can now claim self-defense if you're committing a b, misdemeanor or lower is and and why I I don't, I'm I'm a little confused on this. Can you straighten me out, mr sponsor.

B

Yes, sir, thank you, sir, um so this would be this would change unlawful activity to conduct that would constitute a felony or class a misdemeanor. That's what the bill does so, instead of saying unlawful activity, it defines it as if you're committing a felony or a class, a misdemeanor. You could not use self-defense as a defense.

I

Representative, but if you are committing a be misdemeanor or lower, you can use self-defense as a defense. Is that correct.

B

I believe that would be the assumption.

I

Okay and what would be since I don't do criminal law, what would be some of the offenses of of cl that are class, b and c.

B

Offenses, I'm going to look and see if I have that list. I have had it in the past, so I can check see if it's in this file, because we went through that with legal to make sure that we're not including things that shouldn't be included and their recommendation was this definition.

B

And I don't know that I have that.

A

B

You don't have the list.

A

We can go out of, I don't.

B

Have that list and.

A

Ask from legal services: please please. I almost said I decided.

G

A

Almost did it without objection, we'll go out of session and hear from legal.

M

Michelle fogerty legal services there's a long list of offenses that are a class b and a class c misdemeanor. Would you like for me to read them all to you? Let's.

I

M

Okay, um 3913 101 a3 assault, offensive or provocative physical contact, communicating a threat concerning a school employee, indecent exposure with no statutory aggravating factors, public indecency, first or second offense punishable by a five hundred dollar. Fine. Only prostitution under subdivision b1 disclosure of surveillance, image captured via unmanned aircraft, falsely reporting credit card or debit card loss, stolen or mislaid issuing false financial statement.

M

Deceptive business practices, fraudulent transfer of a motor vehicle failure to disclose location to the owner interfering with customary agricultural practice on animals, removing electronic or radio transmitting collar from dog to prevent owner from locating dog leaving fire near woodland unattended aggravated criminal, trespass other than habitation hospital or school mailbox. Vandalism, defacement of state property with graffiti throwing or shooting object at train bus, motorcycle watercraft criminal littering hauling, litter in unsecured manner, maliciously inducing contaminant or virus into a computer system damaging animal facility or freeing animals therein with damage of less than five hundred dollars.

M

Disseminating smoking paraphernalia to a minor after three prior violations. Misuse of official information by public servant resisting stop frisk, halt, arrest, our search with no weapon, our obstructing service of process, use of radar, jamming device to interrupt law enforcement, signals, abandonment of airtight containers, seller of radar detection or jamming devices.

M

Disrupting or obstructing meeting or procession obstructing a highway or other passageway disorderly conduct at funerals, gambling promotion, possession of a gambling device or record making a lottery chain letter or pyramid club sale of a lottery ticket to a minor first defense failure.

M

Failure to file charitable gaming, financial accounting, unlawful sale of alcoholic beverages without a license possession of a still possession of software for purpose of interfering with operations of a ticket seller, unlawful possession of a weapon with intent to go armed, second or subsequent offense, carrying a firearm on school property, absent in intent to go armed confiscation and disposition of confiscated weapons in an unlawful manner.

M

Violation of a handgun permit law not otherwise provided fine not to exceed 500 possession of a weapon on posted property displaying in a threatening manner and imitation firearm, conveying dangerous materials to a metals recycling facility without consent and failure to comply with or enforce the children's act for clean indoor air.

M

Those would be the class b misdemeanors.

N

I

um Very good, thank you.

I

A

Any other questions for legal, while we have here see now we'll go back into session. All right representative.

I

Thank you and to the sponsor. There are certain ones on there. I can see why you would not want to give up your uh ability to claim self-defense, but when you're have a weapon on a property posted, no trespassing or you're doing criminal trespassing, and there were a few others. Why would we give them the ability, uh if you're, criminally trespassing or you've, got a weapon on property? That's posted, no trespassing!

I

Why would we want to give them the ability to shoot somebody and then claim? Oh, it's self-defense.

B

Thank you, mr chairman. I don't believe we're giving someone the authority to shoot someone and then claim self-defense if it was not truly self-defense. But if you do find yourself trespassing and someone threatens you with bodily harm or death with a with another weapon. I think you still should be able to defend yourself. That's not what I wouldn't want to take someone's ability to defend themselves when they're, only trespassing or only littering, or only illegally parked. uh There are a number of things that that that this covers that in in the class b.

B

Misdemeanors is why we left that out.

I

I agree with you with the parking, but I didn't hear that in in the list, but the uh credit card fraud and uh buying somebody a lottery ticket and other things. I agree with you on, but I think you're throwing out some things uh when I grew up on a farm and we had uh hunters come on to our property. That was posted, no trespassing when you confront those hunters, it's just you the hunter with the weapon, and uh this this you know he could say.

I

Oh he was coming at me and I was in fear for my life, so I shot him dead and uh now I'm claiming self-defense, even though I was violating um the be misdemeanor, so I I can't support that. I think if it was more narrow on the list, I could support it, but I can't support it as it comes today. So, but but thank you.

B

Thank you, mr chairman. I have personally experienced the exact situation you're talking about when I was much younger. I had an individual that was trespassing that had two weapons on him and fortunately he didn't draw those or point them at me, but had he fired a shot, I would have certainly wanted to be able to defend myself, and I wasn't a trespasser in that situation, but by the same token, had I shot at him for no reason which I don't.

B

I could not lawfully shoot at him as just because he's trespassing, that's not something that is a threat to my life or or bodily harm. So I would not want him to give up his self-defense ability there to defend himself. If I was doing something illegal, that's all this is doing is protecting folks law abiding citizens again, if they're, creating something or having a fence. That's in this category of a class b that they still should be able to defend themselves representing bay.

I

And I don't know if we got a misstatement there or not, but when you met that person you weren't, that was carrying guns, you were not trespassing. You were on your property, you met him or her at the while they were trespassing on your posted property.

I

You if you self-defense, is available to you, because you aren't committing any crime under this bill, but the person who's got. The guns is committing a crime under a b misdemeanor and we're going to give them out in the middle of nowhere the ability to shoot you and claim self-defense, basically under this bill. So that's the reason I can't support it, but I thank you.

B

And all I'm saying is, I would have. I would not have wanted to take that person's right, even though he was trespassing that crime does not supersede.

B

It doesn't rise to the level, and I think that's why it's in the class b category, it doesn't rise to the level of a person giving up their right to defend themselves.

B

If I had done something as the landowner had done, something offensive to him not shoot at him for for something they should not have been shot at for or to create that situation. I don't I wouldn't want to take his defense away. It is my opinion there.

I

What about criminal trespass as she read? Why would why would we want to give somebody who is criminally trespassing, the ability to kill someone and say, oh, I was scared, they were coming at me. They they they came out of the shadows. They scared me. I was in fear for my life and then they've got an absolute right to take them down.

B

And I don't know the difference quite frankly between criminal, trespassing and trespassing. So that may be something that that you could educate me on. I'm not sure the difference there.

I

Can we ask legal to define criminal trespassing, please.

A

Without objection, we'll go out of session, hear from legal.

M

Michelle fogerty legal services, criminal, trespass, a person commits criminal trespass if the person enters or remains on property or any portion of property without the consent of the owner. Consent may be inferred in the case of property that is used for commercial activity available to the general public or in the case of other property, when the owner has communicated the owner's intent that the property be open to the general public.

I

Very good, thank you.

A

Any other questions for legal, saying: no we'll go back in session representative beck. Do you have any other comments.

I

No, but thank you, mr chairman,.

A

Thank you next on our list is uh chairman curcio.

H

Thank you, mr chairman, and thank you sponsor for bringing the bill. I think I was involved in at least one of the conversations that you're referencing, where the kind of genesis of this bill came from, and so um I agree. I think it's something that needs to be defined and tightened, and you know one of the examples that was given under that that list was, you know, leaving a fire near woodland unattended.

H

um So if I'm, you know in that example- and this was this is not I mean- I know it sounds like a silly road to go down, but this is exactly the type of thing that we were talking about in that conversation which which prompted this bill, that, if I'm you know, building a campfire and someone begins to attack me or comes near me to threaten me- and I have to defend myself and I leave that then technically. At that point I am not able to apprise myself of that self-defense defense.

H

So um I know it sounds like we're cherry picking there, but that's exactly that's exactly. The point is that you don't want somebody to to lose their right to defend themselves because they are doing something you know minor. So I appreciate the spirit of the bill and, like I said, was involved in those those initial conversations. So I appreciate you bringing this today.

B

Thank you, and, and one of the examples that uh our expert in legal gave me when he first brought. This was if a gentleman was driving down the road and his pregnant wife called him, and he didn't want to be driving if he didn't have a hands-free device, he wants to pull off the side of the road to take that phone call. When he's illegally parked someone walks up to him to let's say hijack him and carjack carjacking if he shot them or shot at them or pulled a pistol on them.

B

He legally was in violation of this law right now as it stands because he was illegally parked. He was involved in unlawful activity. That's all we're trying to correct here. Well, thank you for that.

E

Leader, lambert.

K

Thank you to my friend from davidson county. um Thankfully, in the law you can't shoot somebody for trespassing, and so, if in this state, trespassing is a minor crime, it's something that you know usually carries a c or a b misdemeanor. There isn't a misdemeanor version that this bill would not affect. But if you happen to wander out on somebody else's property and you miss the no trespassing sign, they can't come at you and threaten serious bodily injury or death to you and if they do, you can defend yourself. That's exactly what this bill says.

K

It just says if you're committing a very minor crime like trespassing and someone tries to kill you, you can defend yourself and then everything else that was mentioned in the back and forth a while ago. I just with all the respect I mean is something for a jury to determine this puts it in the jury's hands. I mean it doesn't say it's automatic. It just says that you can at least make a self-defense argument and then, if the jury believes factually that that's what occurred, then you know you you're not guilty of that.

K

But right now the way the law stands if you're committed even the tiniest of misdemeanors, um you can't even assert assert self-defense, exactly as the chairman gave us an example a while ago um and then was the list given by legal. So I mean it seems to me to be a significant step forward in the law so that we don't allow a minor minor misdemeanor to preclude someone from literally saving their own life. So I appreciate you bringing the bill certainly support it.

B

Thank you, leader, lambert and, and and thank you to my friend from davidson county this that's what the subcommittee's for is to vet these things out and make sure it's a good bill before it goes on, and I appreciate that. I know that you always look for those situations that someone else may have missed and that's what we want. That's what this process is for. So I do appreciate that.

A

Any other questions for the sponsor see. None question has been called any objection. Seeing none we're now voting on sending house bill 26 on the full criminal, all those in favor say aye, those opposed. No, the eyes prevailed. uh Your bill moves on the full criminal. If you wish to be recorded as a no, please see the clerk.

A

Next item on the calendar house, bill 1338 by chairman todd, be item number 12..

A

What did I say? I'm sorry. Thank you house, bill 13 88 by chairman todd.

A

We have a motion and a motion in a second you're recognized.

B

Thank you, mr chairman, and there is an amendment on this bill drafting code 4096 that makes the bill.

A

All right need a motion in a second motion and second on the amendment go ahead. Thank you.

B

Sir, um this deals with section or section 39 17 1307, in our code, uh which defines the offense of carrying a club or firearm, as many of you have heard me talk about recently with other bills. We in this country have the god-given right to protect ourselves to keep and bear arms.

B

Our government by our constitution is not able to infringe on those rights, and those rights are, as I said, given by god. There are several enumerated in the constitution. There are several that are not, but it's not an exclusive list. This is one of them that is enumerated over the years. Many of us in in many states have infringed on those rights. Our federal government has infringed on those rights.

B

This is an attempt to clean that up to get some of those infringements off, uh as we have done already in legislation this week, the permit system we have for carrying firearms and also the new permit-less system, the permit-less, carry that we passed a couple of nights ago are only exceptions to punishment. Many of you know that they don't actually remove the offense of carrying a club like a baseball, bat or a firearm.

B

What this bill does actually does that. It removes the offense and I've been involved in this kind of discussion for many years about how to remove these infringements from our rights and was actually surprised to learn that our permit system is only an exception. It does not say it's not an offense anymore. It just says you're not going to be punished for it.

B

You can still be arrested with your permit for carrying and spend the night in jail and have to hire an attorney that isn't done fortunately, but that is the way our law is written.

B

Is that you can you still have to prevent a present, a defense if you're arrested the law gives you that defense, but if you have a permit and now once the governor signs the bill into law that we passed a couple of nights ago, under those circumstances, you could carry without a permit, but it's still only a defense, as you may remember, the wording of the bill. So what this does?

B

This removes that offense once and for all, except in certain situations and the whole list. If you read the bill, the whole list of things is in there that that a person qualifies for that would not be able to carry section 39 17 1308 states that it is a defense when arrested or confronted for carrying. So that's this bill actually deletes 1308. Once we make this change, we would not need that section any longer. It removes the criminal aspect that was put into code as an infringement on our rights. That's simply what this does.

B

I would be glad to take any questions.

A

Thank you any questions for our sponsor on the amendment.

H

A

H

Thank you, mr chairman, and thank you representative for bringing the bill um just looking at the code section that we're dealing in and this this may be your intent. I'm sorry, I didn't get a chance to ask you this before committee, but if we, if we were to pass this, would be signed into law, it's my understanding that we would be deleting the code section that we just amended with the governor's permit less carry bill is that is that your understanding.

B

Mr chairman, I believe that is the case. I have not had that discussion with legal at this point, knowing what position that is in compared to what position this is in, um and I think that they still would go hand in hand. I don't think it would. I don't think it would change the outcome from the standpoint of the purpose of that bill that we just passed now, I'm open to legal's interpretation of that again with the pace that we've had since night before last, there's just not been an opportunity to to clarify that.

H

Thank you, mr chairman. um I would certainly defer to legal, but it's my understanding that if these two were to pass, what you would what you'd be left with was all of the enhancements in the governor's permit-less carry bill, but the first section of that bill would be rewritten by this. So basically, this version of permit less carry with the governor's desires on enhancements. I think that's right again. I don't know if that was your intent may have been your intent, but I just wanted. I believe.

B

That is correct and, and that would be yeah. That would certainly be my intent. Okay,.

H

Thank you, mr chairman, thank you sponsor. Thank you.

A

Any other questions uh representative beck.

I

To the sponsor removing this part of the code and this penalty, how would that affect um the laws of where you're not to carry private businesses, posting, etc?

I

If there's no penalty seems to me, you could carry anywhere. Am I mistaken.

B

Thank mr chairman, um it still would not affect property rights. Those are still protected by law that it doesn't say you can violate someone's wishes on their own property.

I

Is that a separate uh penal code or is it seems to me, it all grows out of the same section and we may need to go out of a.

I

Session to um ask legal, mr chairman,.

A

All right without objection, we'll go out of session and hear from legal.

M

Michelle fogerty legal services, could you repeat the question please.

I

Yes, by removing the penalty from this, uh removing this whole section, it has to do with penalty uh for wrongfully carrying a firearm.

I

um How does that affect penalties for having a firearm? Where it's posted you? You should not have a firearm.

M

I believe those would remain in effect because they are posted, and I also believe that all the rights that a permit holder has would remain in effect, but I will double check on that.

M

Does that answer your question.

I

Sort of, um but we're not sure on either one of those bases. At this point I mean I mean we're just asking you to do it on the fly, but.

M

This bill does not affect uh enhanced handgun carry permit holders and the rights that they have as a result of that enhanced handgun carry permit.

I

Now, that's the enhanced carry permit.

M

I

I

All right, so, if we pat, if this bill passes and becomes law, it's not going to affect where you can carry and it's not going to affect the bill that was passed on monday night. Is that correct.

M

It will affect the it does not work with the governors with what was passed on monday night. It they don't they don't work together. This the language of this amendment deletes and rewrites section 39, 17 1307.

I

So if we pass this, it's in conflict with uh leader lambert's uh bill that he passionately passed on monday. Is that correct.

M

They do not work together.

I

Okay, thank you.

A

Any other questions for legal leader lamborghini.

K

Sherman, since my name was called just a follow-up question for legal, I I think what you mean by that is that, as the sponsor has described the the bill that was passed on monday night, which again was a phenomenal build and a great step forward appreciate every support, for it um is an exception to the current carry statute.

K

This would remove all of that and rewrite the entire section. That's what you mean by they're in conflict with each other. It's a different perspective on how to go about that. Yes,.

M

Sir, that's correct all right. Thank.

K

A

Any other questions seeing none we'll go back into session, any other questions for the sponsor. On this. We are still on the amendment chairman curcio.

H

Thank you, mr chairman, so, uh and I appreciated that back and forth I so there were several amendments on the floor monday night. That would that would change the way the governor dealt with the permit less carry was. Was this one of those options that was discussed in those amendments? No, sir, okay, but but it is a different version it could. It could well have been an amendment to that bill is that it.

B

Could have been- I actually drafted this as an amendment to that bill a few weeks ago, um but decided that wouldn't wasn't really the right way to go about it.

B

I think, as she stated, the enhancements would not be effective whatsoever, so we still get the increased penalties for gun crimes, which I think is a really good step. We need that. I was quite appalled to find out how little punishment there is for for gun crime, uh certain ones, but this would again go at a different angle from the standpoint of the permit less carry where that bill that we passed as well as our enhanced permit only gives us a defense to a criminal to a criminal offense that we're trying to correct here.

B

This is taking the offense away once and for all. Okay.

H

Thank you very much for that explanation, um so that again, this would just be a way to kind of do it. You know your way as opposed to the governor's way.

B

Yes, sir, and when I started looking into this, not only what the governor had proposed, but what we've done in the past. I was very surprised that we're going about it in this matter. Why are we taking? Why are we giving an exception to a an offense and and just creating a defense for it instead of removing the offense as we should have, I I still don't know how we got there. I don't know how, over the years, that's been the tradition, but it has been.

B

I'm not really sure why, instead of going and correcting this, that went on in the late 18th or yet the late 1800s after the civil war, for reasons that I don't think any of us would appreciate, but uh they they were very bad reasons and that's how this actually got created and we've nibbled at it and and worked around the defense side of it instead of dealing with the offense and- and so that's all. This does.

E

B

E

K

Leader, lambert, hey mr chairman, and I wanted to thank the sponsor of the bill for actually going through the committee system. I know that you know anybody can file any amendment they want to on the floor, but you had a different way to do this, a different idea about it and you're going through the proper system, instead of trying to, quite frankly, as we've seen a couple time over the years, just try to hijack a bill.

K

That's on the floor because it happens to deal with a subject matter that you're passionate about and that you know having a separate bill on this, I think, is a much better way to go about it, and so again I appreciate you working through the committee system. um It's just a different way to look at this issue. I mean it's a it's a completely new way um and I appreciate you working with chairman curtis on others to really kind of look at hey.

K

Why is the defense instead of just starting from scratch and kind of rebuilding the statute? It's a much heavier lift but again appreciate you going through the committee system and doing it that way, instead of just you know, filing an amendment on the floor that had not been through the committee system. Thank you.

B

Thank you for saying that, and I have worked with a number of members, including judge carter. I wish he was here with us right now, but um he has been instrumental in this as well and- and I think this really, I want to remind the committee, as I have in other committees, that when other bills were presented, that we have an oath to uphold the constitution and that constitution says that that right that we already have given by god shall not be infringed.

B

This isn't a an infringement that we have discovered that needs to be removed. So I think it's our duty to uphold our oath to remove this infringement. Thank you, mr chairman representative. Beck.

I

Thank you, mr chairman, and it just hit me that if, if we rewrite this section, there will be no penalty for.

I

Taking out any weapon, whether it's in ar-15 or long long, gun, rifle and walk down, broadway with any of those under this bill, is that correct.

B

I believe it would be, sir, as our constitution states keep and bear arms, not handguns arms.

I

A

Good any other questions for the sponsor question has been called on the amendment. Any objection, seeing none we're now voting on adding amendment number zero, zero, four, zero, nine six on the house bill, 1388, all those in favor say aye. Those opposed no. The eyes prevail. We're now on house bill 1388 as amended.

A

Any questions for the sponsor question has been called any objection. Seeing none we're now voting on house bill, sending house bill 1388 as amended on the full criminal while those in favor say aye aye. That was opposed. No the eyes prevailed. You move on the full criminal. Thank you. Thank you, chairman of committee. If you wish to be recorded as a no, please see the clerk item number 13 house bill 427 by chair, lady littleton.

A

You have a motion in a second you're recognized.

D

Thank you, mr chairman. This bill says the parties with which a victim of sexual battery is incapable of considering to consenting to sexual contact with is a member of the clergy, health care, professional or an alcohol and drug abuser counselor who was treated the victim for mental emotional or physical condition,.

A

Okay, there's an amendment on this: do you uh that.

D

Was I'm sorry that was the the amendment makes the bill.

A

Okay, we're uh you have a motion. Second, amendment coded zero, zero; six one, four five, uh those in favor of the amendment say aye aye. Let's suppose no the ice prevail we adopt. We are on house bill 427, as amended.

D

The amendment made the bill.

A

The amendment made the bill question has been called any objection, seeing none we're now voting on sending house bill 427 on the full criminal, all those in favor say aye, as opposed no the eyes prevail, move on the full criminal. Thank you.

A

Next item number 14. chair, lady littleton house bill 951. You have a motion in a second. You recognized thank.

D

You, mr chairman, this was brought to me last year by the da's and I got caught up in the covid, so here we are again with the bill. It creates a class, a misdemeanor offense of neglect. We, by act of a mission engaging in conduct the conduct that places a child in intimate danger or death, bodily injury or physical or mental impairment, creates a d felony offense of neglect leave.

D

I cannot talk today by act or a mission engaging in the conduct places a child that is eight years of age or less in intimate danger of death, bodily injury or physical or minimal impairment.

A

Any questions for the sponsor seeing none any objection of the question, seeing no we're now voting on sending house bill 951 on the full criminal, all those in favor say aye, those opposed. No, the eyes prevailed. You move on the pool. Thank you item 15 house bill 955, chair lady littleton motion. Second recognized.

D

Thank you, mr chairman. This does have an amendment that makes the bill it's uh 4606.

A

Amendment number four: six: zero. Six. We are have a motion a second. You are recognized on that amendment.

D

Thank you, mr chairman. This bill states that should a juvenile adjudicated delinquent commit conduct that, if committed by an adult, would constitute an offense of aggravated rape, rape, rape of a child or aggravated rape of a child. The court shall con instruct the child that he or she must not accept employment or volunteer in any capacity that the child knows or reasonably should know, will cause the child to be in close and frequent contact with the minor.

A

Thank you. Any questions for our sponsor on the amendment question's been called on. The amendment see any objection, seeing none we're now voting to adopt amendment zero, four, six, zero. Six on the house bill, 955, all those in favor, say aye aye, as opposed no the ice prevail. uh We adopt we're on we're on house bill 955 as amended.

D

The amendment makes the bill thank.

A

You very much any other questions. Questions been called any objection, seeing none we're now voting on sending house bill 955 on the full criminal as amended, all those in favor say aye, those opposed, no, the eyes prevailed, we'll move on. Thank you. Thank you, mr chairman.

A

Item number 16 house bill: 1143.

A

You have a motion in a second.

A

Vice chairman grills.

E

Thank you, mr chairman,.

A

You are recognized.

E

Thank you, mr chairman. I hope that somebody's going to call question on the bill before I got up here so lucky today. Emma this, uh this bill was given to me by senator rose. um He had some constituents in his district that had some had children that were hurt by individuals driving on revoked license, and um this is ultimately what this bill does. It seeks to put some more teeth into the drivers who are repeatedly caught without driving on revoked or suspended license.

E

Currently, the first offense is the class b misdemeanor and the second subsequent fences are class, a misdemeanors. So ultimately, what this bill is going to do is change the third offense to a class e felony.

A

Any questions for our sponsor.

E

Oh man, I've already put myself in position haven't I.

E

Leader lamberth.

K

Mr chairman, given the introductory remarks, we were seriously considering rolling this bill to the hill, but I'll wait I'll, wait until others have asked questions of the bill before we make that determinant. I love you william.

A

Without objection, we're going to roll two spaces.

A

That will bring us back up to item item number two house bill 1430 by chairman chair lady moody. You have a motion in a second, you recognized.

F

Thank you committee and mr chairman, uh this bill, I'm bringing today and uh it does have an amendment.

A

Amendment code, zero, zero, five, five, five, seven correct all right! You recognize on the amendment.

F

Thank you very much.

F

The amendment does make the bill and uh just the short version of this is the the legislation will broaden the definition of bodily injury as it pertains to domestic abuse and it adds to 39 11 106., which is the title regarding criminal offenses, specifically title definitions and again it broadens the definition of serious bodily injury to include a specific reference to instances of domestic abuse and those additions are include a broken bone, regardless of the victim's age, damage to the palate or other sensory function, including, but not limited to the ears mouth eyes or nose.

F

That requires medical repair or reconstruction, tearing of ligaments or muscle tissue dislocation of joints, abrasions to the neck, face or chest substantial bruising to the body um and and I'll stop there.

A

Thank you any questions for the sponsor on the amendment leader, lambert.

K

I just want to make sure I understand them a minute. I know you're subbing in for another sponsor, but in essence, will this make every domestic assault um case a felony.

F

Give me a second.

F

You know I I don't know if I can answer that.

K

Mister sheriff, can we go out a session to legal there? Domestic assault is a very broad definition includes many different types of actions. I'm trying to determine in the amendment if it is those domestic assaults and and which there is any injury whatsoever that we are now presuming that to be serious bodily injury, thus making all of those domestic assaults a felony. I just want to make sure that the intent of the bill is out there. If that's what it is. Mr may we ask that question to legal.

A

Yes, without objection, we'll go out of session, hear from legal.

M

Could you could you specifically restate your question.

K

If you can just give us a brief, just kind of legal definition of what we are changing in the law here, it appears again that we are making, if not all, virtually all domestic assault, misdemeanors now felonies, in which there is any bodily injury whatsoever. I'm just curious. If there's, that is what the language does, it's what it reads like, but I want to make sure what.

M

Michelle fogerty legal services, the the language and the amendment changes the definition of serious bodily injury, so any offense in this title that references serious bodily injury. If it involves a domestic assault victim, then the definite the definition in this amendment is going to apply. So it will be any broken bone. uh The tearing of ligaments muscle tissue uh abrasions to the neck face or chest substantial bruising to the body or dislocation of joints. That's going to be any of those injuries are going to be considered to be serious bodily injury under this definition.

M

So any any time that that term is referenced in this title, then that definition is going to apply if a domestic victim, if the victim is a domestic assault victim.

K

All of those under current law are serious bodily injury, though I mean that we we added strangulation, we added several others within the domestic violence definition. um That's what I'm I'm trying to understand the distinction of what we are changing here. It has a fiscal note of about 14.6 million. um So again I was trying to make the fiscal note and the language of the amendment comply with one another.

K

It appeared that it did the opposite of what you were describing I'm just trying to figure that out, because it seemed like it made any injury, serious bodily injury, but it may not do that, but the fiscal note obviously makes some assumptions there that we're greatly expanding and I'm not arguing the merits one way or the other right. Now, I'm just trying to figure out exactly what the distinctioners were drawing.

M

I can't speak to the intent, but I know there are the the term serious bodily injury is referenced numerous times in title 39, so anytime, there is an offense uh that in if for punishment, that involves serious bodily injury. If the victim is a domestic assault victim, then this definition is going to apply and that could possibly raise the level of the offense.

A

Any other questions for legal see now we'll go back and I'm sorry representative, russell.

E

Thank you, chairman, just a question for legal about salt with serious bodily injury. What's the classification code for the felony now compared to what the classification for the felony would be if it's under domestic violence.

M

Are you talking about domestic assault or just regular assault aggravated.

G

Domestic abuse assault under this new.

E

Amendment, what would the classification code be for the class of felony? It would be under serious.

H

Bodily injury is that different from a seriously boldly injury for assault now.

M

The language of this amendment doesn't change the offense of domestic assault, the punishment it just changes, what it, what what is defined as serious bodily injury.

A

Okay, thank you. Any other questions for legal cnn, we'll go back in session.

A

Chair lady moody.

F

I'm trying to determine if I feel a cool breeze and.

F

I see you know well, I want you know, since it's not my bill and I'm I'm I feel honored to carry. It are.

A

You asking the roll of the week.

F

Yes, yes, I think so.

A

Okay, any objection, we'll roll roll house bill 14 30 one week.

F

A

Brings us up to item number eight house bill 109 by chairman hosey.

A

L

You, mr chairman, amendment.

A

A

You recognized on the amendment that.

L

That is correct and I, if I can ask your indulgent for a verbal amendment, that's very doesn't have much substitute at all. The the parole board asked that we changed the start date to july first and uh I'm asking if that's a simple enough amendment that you could orderly put that on.

H

Thank you, mr chairman. um Mr chairman, it's my understanding that members of the committee uh are able to make verbal amendments, and uh pursuant to that I wish to make a verbal amendment that we changed the start date to july. First.

A

Motion to second any objection, uh we now vote to add that verbal amendment to july 1st, all those in favor say aye aye as opposed not to the israel all right. We adopt uh we're.

A

We're now on amendment one as amended chairman hulsey you're recognized.

L

Thank you, six three one eight and what it does is the the district attorneys were asking for tums on my first bill and they didn't.

L

They didn't like the word presumption, so it was real rewritten to use the word consider that the parole board would consider this bill deals with people that are in our institutions, our penitentiaries, who have been charged in the state court, but they've been also charged many times for the same crime in federal court and been found guilty and they're serving time in our penitentiaries, but they're waiting when they get out of our penitentiary to go to a federal penitentiary 99 of them. These are federal warrants to go to a federal penitentiary and serve another sentence.

L

This bill says that we're trying to save tennessee taxpayers a lot of money here. It says if you're eligible for parole in tennessee- and you got more time to serve in the federal penitentiary, then you got left in the state penitentiary.

L

Then this bill says the parole board will consider running them out to the state penitentiary and let the federal government pay it. Then that's what the bill says.

A

Any other questions for the sponsor.

G

A

Are we're on the amendment we need to so questions been called on the amendment? Any objection, seeing no we're now voting to add amendment number one uh as amended on the house bill 109., all those in favor say aye as opposed no the ice prevail. uh We are now back on house bill 109 as amended.

L

I don't think I can blow the aid anymore. That's all. I got all right any other.

A

H

Chairman curcio, thank you, mr chairman. I moved previous question.

A

Question has been called any objection, seeing none we're now voting to send house bill 109 on the full criminal, all those in favor say aye as opposed no. The ice revealed you move on.

H

Members that brings us to item number 16 on your calendar house, bill 1143, which is previously considered enrolled two spaces representative grills. You are recognized.

E

Thank you, mr chairman. It's good to see you have the gavel now.

H

E

H

Best, I tell you, after after.

E

A conversation we had a couple of minutes ago about some different things: let's roll this bill till next week, if I'd be okay with you in the committee, without objection, sir rolled one and I'm gonna, go talk to chairman doggett right now. Thank you, sir. Thank you.

H

Members that brings us to item number 17 house bill 924 by representative wright.

H

Sir, you have a motion and a second and while things are being prepared, I see you also have an amendment coded 6057. Do you wish to move that amendment today.

G

Thank you, mr chairman, in committee. uh I have to throw myself on the mercy of the court and that the senate moved out six two two, eight, which is the same amendment, but it adds a comma of the third line after the word property.

H

Representative wright, it's my understanding that.

H

G

Could ask for a verbal amendment to add a comma after the word property and use 6228.

H

Chairman hal you're recognized.

E

Thank mr chairman, I make a verbal amendment motion for a verbal amendment to do what chairman said. Wright said.

H

You have a motion and a second on a verbal amendment committee. Is there any discussion seeing none all those in favor of adopting the verbal amendment moved by chairman howell, please signify by saying aye that was opposed you adopt.

H

We are now on amendment one as amended, and I need a motion and a second on amendment, one as amended. Thank you, sir. uh Thank you committee, sir you're recognized on amendment coded 6057, as amended.

G

Thank you, mr chairman, for allowing me to be in proper form. Now I want to go out a form for just a second and say this. This bill makes me the draft drone king makes me the drone king, and that last year I had a bill. Football team didn't want flyers being released from a drone which would drift over their games later on an event. Promoter did not want people filming from a drone, so today, what I'm doing is expanding. Some drone work use of law enforcement to make us safer in the state of tennessee.

G

Currently in code. There is the allowance for the use of a drone, and there are seven defined uses that a drone may be used by law enforcement.

G

What I'm attempting with this bill is to add three more uses of a drone, one being used at a crime scene, two in the event of a natural disaster declared state of emergency and third, with consent at a large public event.

G

This bill has been amended to also change the date of the retention of information from three days to 15 days and then, if we do not like the bill at some future date, it now has, as a part of the amended version, sunshine date of july, the 1st 2024, and with that I stand for questions. Thank you, mr chairman.

H

Thank you, mr sponsor. um I, after conferring with legal, I do want to just advise you for full disclosure doesn't mean you have to do anything with this information if it was your intent for invert. For that verbal amendment to match up with what the senate adopted, we did not accomplish that. So the senate amendment changed a lot more than that comma.

G

Then the amendment that we amended the second there are three amendments. The second amendment.

G

Should look like the senate.

H

No sir, we only have one amendment that was filed with this committee. I'm not trying to knock you off your off your game here at all. I just again, you previously stated on the record that it was your your desire and your thought that that one comma would put you in syncopation with the the the other body down the hall, and that is that was insufficient to do that. If you wish to proceed forward, you're certainly welcome to do that.

H

This body often does things differently than the other body, but if, but, if you're trying to be in the same posture as the senate, I just want you to know that you're not so, if you want to I'm not, I want you to do what you want to do with your bill, but if you want to roll a week and get in the exact same posture as the senate, that's up to you if you want to continue forward the way.

H

This is it's totally up to you, but I just didn't want to advise you that that did not make it match the senate right.

G

If this committee will allow me to roll one week, I will accept a roll.

H

um Yes, sir, I'm also, and and just to advise you if we roll this because of the number of times it's been calendared, it will go to the special calendar. That's not a problem, it will be. It will be taken up on that special calendar. You'll still have an option there to move it forward. I just again want to advise you of that as well. Okay,.

G

Thanks for the advice I will be taken up by this committee at some point in time in this session.

H

uh Yes, sir, uh the special calendar will be taking be taken up after the final calendar, but it, but it will be taken up and be taken just as as seriously as the rest of our calendars for the year. Did that answer your question that.

G

Most certainly didn't I appreciate it. I appreciate the indulgence. Yes.

H

G

This has been, this has created more paperwork than I've carried around on anything else. I.

H

Completely understand and that's why I want to make sure you totally unders that you're you understand what posture you're in and that we don't have any any misunderstandings. I do have chairman howell on the list chairman. How are you recognized? Thank you.

E

Mr chairman, I was just going to suggest to the sponsor. Another option would be to let the senate pass it. You can just consent and conform on the floor and we can move forward, but that's that's your decision. Thank you, mr chairman.

G

Let me again say that I would go with the guidance of the committee and with the chairman, and I agree with the chairman. Thank you. Thank.

H

You, sir, without objection, then this will be rolled to the special calendar.

G

H

Members that brings us to.

H

Item number 18 by representative lynn: I do not see her in the room that will be rolled to the heel.

H

Next, that brings us to item number 20 house bill 997 by leader love.

H

I do not see leader love in the room that objection rolled to the heel.

H

Members that brings us to item number 21 house bill 1480 by vice chairman parkinson, vice chairman parkinson you're, recognized on house bill 1480.. Thank you, mr.

O

Chair and thank you uh committee, if, if, if we will, if we can, uh hopefully we can get a motion and uh and a second on the bill to get the amendment on motion.

O

Thank you thank you, mr chair, and and if we can entertain a motion for it not trying to run your committee, mr chair, just so.

H

uh Representative parkinson, the the there is an amendment filed with the committee. It's coded 5926. Do you wish to move that amendment? Yes, sir? Yes, sir, okay, uh the posture we find ourselves as representative parkinson moves amendment 5926. Do we have a motion in a second okay? We have a motion and a second we're on the amendment. Sir. Thank you. Thank you, mr.

O

Amendment uh rewrite it actually rewrites the bill and and out of transparency uh members uh I was I spoke to. I just want to get the amendments on and discuss the bill and then hold it here to next week, because I'm speaking to the uh da's and- and I think hopefully they'll be okay with it, it seemed like they were leaning that way, and- um and I but I want listen. You know because this bill is important to me and I want everyone all stakeholders to be to at least be okay with the bill.

O

If that's okay. So if you don't mind miss chair, I'll, discuss the bill.

H

Just yeah representative parkinson, the parliamentary uh situation we find ourselves in is you have a motion and a second amendment code of 59-26, which is my understanding that rewrites the bill? Yes, sir, if you would like to get that amendment on the bill. Is that that what I'm hearing? Yes, sir all right? So all those in favor of attaching amendment coded 5926 to house bill 1480, please signify by saying aye that was opposed.

H

You adopt we're now on house bill 1480 as amended.

O

Thank you. Thank you, mr chair and committee. Currently state law says anyone in possession of marijuana and amounts between one half ounce and 10 pounds. It may be inferred that you are in possession with the intent to sell, manufacture and distribute it may be inferred. The wording may be inferred in the code, allows for different outcomes in different courts and laws in jurisdictions. Let me give you an example.

O

Let's say in tipton county an individual is is found in possession of three quarters of an ounce. They may receive a felony charge because the inference can be put in based on that weight.

O

Let's say, on the other hand, an individual is found in possession of three quarters of an ounce in shelby county in shelby county that inference may not be applied just because they don't want to apply because they don't want to deal with small amounts, but what we would end up, having is in different parts of the state, different individuals being charged differently and possibly possibly the the inference being applied in some places and the inference not being applied in other places.

O

What I'm doing with this bill is I'm creating a uniform standard in code regarding simple possession ensuring that all members of this committee, I want to ensure that all members of this committee understand that we are not legalizing marijuana or decriminalizing marijuana.

O

This this bill changes and specifies how and when felony inference is applied and- and let's think about this members for basically a 60 crime, the state is paying 85 a day to house or incarcerate these individuals somewhere around that space.

O

This bill also creates an annual savings to the state of more than 300 000 and even charging and charging a citizen in our state with a felony whether it's whether the final outcome is a felony or reduced down to a misdemeanor.

O

The fact that you were charged with the felony has consequences also so again, what we're doing with this bill is clarifying in the code that the inference will be applied if there's evidence of manufacturing distributing or selling in amounts of less than one ounce of leafy marijuana only and and just real quick. I just want to point out a couple things in in the in the bill itself in the well in the uh amendment itself, number one: it is an offense for a person to sell or distribute marijuana in an amount less than an ounce.

O

It's still criminal number two. It is an offense for a person to knowingly possess or casually exchanged marijuana in an amount of less than an ounce. It's still criminal under a casualty exchange. This is language that I got from as an amendment from our leader from leader, lambert when I ran the bill a few years ago, and we wanted to make sure that that was clarified in there.

O

So we kept the same language from leader, lambert's amendment section three I want to go to 4b- and this is this right here to me- is the meat of the legislation, the intent to sell or otherwise dispense shall not be inferred solely from the possession or casual exchange of less than an ounce of marijuana.

O

However, key sentence, however, other relevant facts surrounding the arrest may be used to infer such an intent, and what that means is to me is: if the evidence is there, stick it to them.

O

If the evidence is not present, let's not apply felonies to people who don't deserve to be charged with a felony, and that's what bill does.

H

Thank you, mr sponsor, for that explanation. Members. We have any questions for the sponsored legislation, as amended.

H

uh Chairman howell, you recognized.

E

Thank you, mr chairman, and to the sponsor thank you for coming by and visiting with me about this, um and it occurred to me, as I was looking at your bill, that it seems like this bill is really a truth and sentencing. Yes, sir bill, that's exactly what it is truth and sentencing and troubles.

O

I'm sorry, mr truth and sentencing and truth in charging, because, based on the language now, a lot of people that may be in have simple possession or possession under an ounce are charged with the felony. It may not come out in the wash as a felony when at the end of it, but the charge of a felony is is an issue also and and this will clarify so we're uniform across the state and how this is applied. Chairman howell.

E

Thank you, mr chairman, and so your example that you used in tipton county versus shelby, county you're, seeking to standardize uh the sentencing guidelines for the entire state of tennessee. Where now it is not standardized.

O

E

I on the right track here, representative.

O

Parkinson, thank you, miss chad, yes, and not only that, but seeking to standardize the application how the inference is applied across the state. Yes, sir again, thank you, mr chairman.

H

Thank you, chairman hal, any any further follow-up members, any other questions for the sponsor legislation.

H

Seeing none we're ready to vote all those in favor of sending house bill 1480 as amended to criminal full. Please signify saying aye aye those opposed the eyes. Have it, sir. You had the criminal full. Thank you. Thank you, mr chair.

O

And thank you committee.

H

Thank you, representative parkinson. I will hand the gavel back to our chairman.

H

A

We're on item number 22 house bill, 1493, representative towns, none in the room. We will roll this to the heel of the calendar.

A

Item number 23 house bill 592 by representative clemons.

A

Roll to the hill.

A

Item number 24 house bill 457 by representative thompson, has been taken off notice.

A

Item 25 house bill 1459 by representative hakeem.

A

We'll need a motion in a second on that. Please.

A

You're recognized.

P

Thank you very much, mr chairman and members. uh What we what this bill is about is nationally. In the past, the state of tennessee has been ranked number four in regards to deaths after domestic assaults in a home.

P

Now we're number nine and I think we want to continue on the path of being further down the line on that number and the pandemic, I think, has exacerbated the problem of people having increased domestic assaults and so forth, and what we're trying to do is to create more of a cooling off period between the incident and the person.

P

Who is the perpetrator going back into we'll say the home, and what this bill does is require magistrate to order as a condition of release or bail, a person arrested for domestic assault to vacate or stay away from the place where the victim resides for 24 hours. Presently, my understanding is it's eight hours and we're saying 24 hours.

P

The intent is to afford an opportunity for a cooling off period to take place, and if someone has a substance in their system more of a time for that to dissipate- and we would add that present law says that if that person goes back to that residence prior to that time period, they can be arrested without a warrant or with a warrant.

P

So essentially, what we're doing is trying to provide an opportunity for cooling off period and for their hopefully to be a lessening of events that take place where death is the result of a domestic assault. Thanks. Mr chairman,.

A

Thank you. Any questions for the sponsor representative beck.

I

Thank you, mr chairman, uh to the sponsor. So is this a mandatory uh cooling off period? I mean there's no discretion by the judge, uh even if somebody would lose their job or et cetera. I mean there's, there's no discretion by the judge. Is this totally mandatory.

P

As as it is written.

P

The magistrate.

P

As it is written yes, sir, that would be mandatory if go ahead. I'm sorry.

I

But it's still it's it's it's hard to say, and I and I appreciate the spirit of the building. I think it's very, very well taken but you're uh to take to say it's mandatory.

I

I'd have to think about that, but um I appreciate the spirit of the bill and I appreciate you bringing the bill uh I'd. You know, I'm I'm I'm usually against no matter in what bill if it's takes a judge's discretion, but it is a magistrate in this this particular instance but I'll. Let my other members ask questions, but I thank you. Yes, sir.

K

Leader, lambert famous chairman, and I joined my friend from davidson county in the comments that I mean we, we allowed discretion in all of these instances, because we, we are not the judge or the magistrate, that's in that room with the individual who's evaluating these factors to determine what's in the best interest of both the victim, but also that preserves the rights of the defendant in that instance.

K

So the the fact that this has I mean shall even in the 12-hour hold that you mentioned, not not eight, but it's a 12-hour hold right now um helped draft that many years ago, and there are some exceptions even to that. Yes, where the the judge can take those into account.

K

um There's also I mean you know, magistrate already can put a no contact on our bond. uh The victim can get an order of protection. We've beefed a lot of that up in the last few years again, I share my colleagues statements that I mean your intentions here are absolutely pure you're trying to do a very good thing. It just seems like it needs quite a bit more work.

K

As written, it again has some issues. Let me ask this: what would your preference be to either do a summer study on this or something else I mean? I just feel like. You need to speak directly with some of these magistrates talk with the judges meet with some of the district attorneys that are prosecuting these cases. Some of the victim advocacy groups out there. I think, there's probably a better way to get to where you would like to go.

K

um Do you have a preference as to what direction you might take on that because it just seems like it needs some additional work.

P

Thank you, mr chairman. uh I'm I'm at the pleasure of the committee now what I'm getting at is, if it's more acceptable or feasible, you know we can go from. I guess from shale to what is it, uh leaving more descr, giving more discretion to the judge or on magistrate?

P

If that's not something that we could consider in this session, then I guess I would have to look at uh some study summer study or something that nature. Okay. Well,.

K

With that I mean, if you're fine with it, because I think that you know it's an opportunity here to really- and I hope- and I know our full committee chairman is- is looking diligently down there. um I mean, I hope, that the speaker and our chairman will do a full summer study on a variety of issues.

K

I quite frankly think that bond and bail conditions and how we make sure that victims are protected while the case is moving through the system and the defendant's rights are protected, because they're innocent until proven guilty is a really good conversation for a summer study. So when I make this motion understand that I want you to actually get that opportunity. I don't want this type of bill to just go into a summer study and not get the discussion it deserves.

K

So I I say that in hopes that um this will occur so with that, I would make a motion to send this a summer study.

A

The motion, the second on that is proper motion uh seconded any objection. Seeing none and we're now voting to send house bill 1459 to summer study, all those in favor say: aye aye, as opposed no. The eyes prevailed goes to summer study. Thank you, chairman and members. Thank you.

A

Members. Let's go back to item number 22 house bill 1493 by representative.

A

Townes, that's you there's a motion. A second. You are recognized representative.

E

Mr chairman members, thank you very much. Are you very kind.

E

I thought you said something else about me, mr chairman members, I'd like to explain what's going on and uh I'm going to ask for you and those and also ask that will assist in this particular bill.

E

I don't know how many of y'all are familiar with kratom, okay and what it really does you know we have opioid crisis in our in our country, and kratom is used to help people uh stay off opioids. It's really good, as my research has taught me, it actually helps people to get off opioids. So with you having something, that's powerful, you want not to hurt it at all and what we were trying to do based upon what has happened with pharmacists that have come to us.

E

They want to try to regulate themselves a little bit better because they can't it can anything can be dangerous. Okay, and so I had a group of pharmacists, come to me and ask me see if we could do legislation that would allow it to be sold in smaller quantities, retail, in other words, if I come to the store I buy put it reduce it down to a certain amount of ounces, because what people were doing is buying it in bulk for resale and they're, not pharmacists and they're, not uh herbalists and so forth.

E

So they asked me to do it, and- and I thought it was a good idea.

E

However, what I have what I'd like to do is this, because I've had some calls that were positive in in that direction, but because of the complications, seemingly I'm having with uh the senate, to understand, what's totally going on I'd like to see if we can probably put it in the summer study and study a little bit. If you don't mind, okay, I'm going to bring it back next year, but I'd like to get a little bit more input in it. If you don't mind, mr chairman,.

A

Well that, uh as a request, the the committee uh leader lambert, who you recognize okay, make.

K

A

Summer study there's.

K

A

And seconded, I will say that I know that you have worked very hard on this. You and I have had many conversations about about. What's going on, uh miss andrea has been working with us very diligently trying to come to some kind of conclusion, and I know that sometimes there's always uh different directions that you go we're all trying to achieve the same goal but hiccup having continue continuing the conversations in the summer, I think, is a is a great thing that we're going to do and look forward to those.

A

So there is a motion and a second uh for a summer study, any objection. Seeing none we're now voting to send house bill 1493 on to summer study, all those in favor say: aye aye those opposed the eyes prevail. You go to summer study. Thank you.

A

Item number 23 house bill 592 by representative clemens.

A

Bill fails for a lack of second.

A

A

Item number 26 house bill 420 by representative harris.

A

Item fails for a lack of second.

A

Item number 27 house bill 1102 by representative.

A

Shaw, you have a motion and second, you are properly recognized. Thank.

N

You, mr chairman and members, um I have an amendment that makes this bill.

A

Amendment number: zero, zero, five, eight two zero motion and second, was on that you're recognized on the amendment. I'd I'd.

N

Like to uh explain this and what this amendment does in simple terms, it comes from tbi and the d, a uh combined that they made wrote this amendment for us to make the bill and what the amendment simply says. The amendment specifies that domestic assaults, which were created in 2000, will not be included in this bill. Only assaults after 2000 may be eligible for expungement.

N

That is the amendment that makes the bill I'm also at the will of this committee. I've spoken to both chairmans as well as some other members about this as to how we might be able to solve some problems for some of our constituents with old domestic assaults. That's holding them back in many ways from getting their lives on, and so I'm kind of at the will of the committee at this point to to answer any questions that can or accept any suggestions that you may have.

A

Thank you representative. uh Any questions for the sponsor on the amendment representative.

K

Mr chairman, I mean I just want to highlight. I mean these are folks that would have been eligible for judicial diversion that either simply didn't have a lawyer that asked or did not ask themselves when they were found guilty of the crime. So they were not adding anybody to the list that is eligible, that that was not otherwise eligible for diversion. They simply just didn't get it on the front end and under the law they are ineligible. On the back end.

K

My only question is why july 1st of 2000 minutes 21 years ago, um I mean, obviously these are folks. I mean there are a lot of folks within that 21 years. That potentially would be eligible for diversion. um Is it just kind of you had to start somewhere or why? The july 1st 2000.

N

I had to I just kind of had to start where I could, mr leader, but I'm at the will of the committee, to accept the verbal amendment to move it up. uh If that's possible, because we'd like to get everybody we possibly can. That would be eligible for the expungement.

A

Members we're going to go out of session and hear from legal on this.

M

Michelle fogerty legal services, the offense of domestic assault, was enacted in 2000, which I believe is the reason for the date in this amendment. Okay, so.

D

B

D

I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

M

So, prior to that date there was no offense of domestic assault. It would have just been prosecuted as assault.

A

So domestic assault was not on the book so to say until 2000, correct. Okay, any other questions for legal see. Now we'll go back into session leader lamberts. You recognize you have anything you'd like to say.

K

No, I just learned something new. Every day I mean chairman farm, and I were we were talking about this kind of off here and off the mics here. uh You know both of us came on and started practicing law beyond 2000, and so um I wasn't aware that that was why the date so again, uh we've learned something today and that's a good thing. So.

A

Thank you very much any other questions for the sponsor we're still on the amendment.

A

Seeing none any objection to the question. Seeing now we're now voting to add amendment number: zero, zero, five, four, nine five on the house bill, 1393, all those in favor, say aye.

A

I'm sorry members, I I I looked at the wrong amendment code there and was adding it to the wrong bill. So if you will forgive me, let's rewind that back we're voting to add amendment code005820 on the house bill 1102, all those in favor say aye those opposed no the eyes prevail. We are on house bill 1102 as amended any questions for the sponsor, not any objection to the question. Seeing none we're now voting on house bill 1102 as amended sent on the full criminal, all those in favor say: aye aye, those opposed.

A

No, the eyes prevailed. You move on the full criminal. Thank you. Thank you. Mr chairman. Next item on the calendar number 28 house bill 1393 by representative shaw,.

A

You have a second.

N

uh I wanted to just suggest this: the senate sponsor wanted to roll this one week. If, if we could, I gotta know this while I was sitting here, of course, if, uh if it's cloudy we'll just do what we need to do with it,.

A

We'll we'll roll it to our last calendar if that suits you. Thank you without objection, road to last calendar. Thank you. Thank.

N

You, uh mr chairman, and members.

A

Item number 31 house bill 864 by representative chisholm.

A

All right, you have a second there. Do you want to roll this one week? Yes, objection.

K

If, if we can chairman we're we're getting bills that are kind of building up on the chairman's calendar, would it be all right if the member would be okay with this? Give you plenty time to work it and not get into this situation where it's just on the calendar, and this is not just your bill. This is for several to potentially roll this to the last calendar. That's probably only two weeks away, but if we could do the last calendar, I think it'd give you plenty time to work on it.

E

Okay- and I also like to roll uh house b well we'll.

A

Get to that when we get there, if you don't mind, but yes, let's uh without objection, we'll roll house bill 864 to the final calendar.

A

Item number 32 house bill 1308.

N

I also like to roll this into the final calendar.

A

All right, you have a second without objection, we'll roll that to a final calendar. Thank you, chair committee,.

A

Item number 35 house bill, 8, 93, representative mckenzie,.

G

A

Have a motion and second to recognize.

P

This a date of uh january 1st 1980 for persons who've been pardoned and gives them uh uh full rights back. That's the again. The bill simply removes that date and allows people that were pardoned on to on for offense's honor. uh Prior to that day,.

A

Any questions for the sponsor.

A

Question has been called any objection, seeing none we're now voting to send house bill 893 on the full criminal. All those in favor say aye, those opposed. No, the ice prevailed. You go on the full criminal. Thank you, mr.

E

A

Item number 36 house bill 0895 by representatives.

P

Could I take this one.

A

Off notice, yes, you may without objection off notice,.

A

Item 37 house bill 896 by representative mckenzie.

A

You have a second, you have a motion and second you're recognized. Thank you. Thank.

P

You, mr and committee this this this bill- I I do admit is, is a um I think it's needed. um I. I know that it is something that that I've heard um good words from our uh administration about as several as well as several uh members of the general assembly, but but but I will say with that, I I do think there probably needs to be a little more meat put on on the bond.

P

So I you know, I would ask you all- would entertain the summer study when it allowed me as a freshman to figure out what a summer study would be and uh um I'll, but but really get into it and bring something back to to you all.

A

Representative.

I

Beck, thank you. Miss chair, I'd, I'd, move that we move this to summer study, please that.

A

Is a proper motion, it has been seconded any objection to a summer study, seeing none we're now voting to send house bill 896 to summer study, all those in favor say aye as opposed no the ice prevail. Thank you, mr congratulations.

A

Members, let's, uh let's walk a few places down over to item number 41 house bill 1346 by chair lady moody,.

E

A

Have a motion and a second you are recognized thank.

F

You, mr chairman and committee for moving us up. I do have someone that would like to give a testimony today that is here. So I appreciate your consideration.

F

um What bill 1346 will do this bill will protect children by strengthening our state's protections against sexual exploitation of minors.

F

This will close a loophole that our courts brought to our attention and I guess in a nutshell, what it what was happening was because, as cameras were put in like say a bedroom of one case, I remember the stepfather knew the daughter 13 year old was having a slumber party, put a camera in the bedroom and was filming the girls as they were getting ready for bed, but he was sharing the videos and the loophole was that the law said the girls had to be involved in lascivious activity where they were just undressing.

F

So there was nothing we could do so. This will close that loophole, and with that very brief explanation of the bill, I would like to request that my uh testimony be heard.

A

Absolutely thank you for that explanation. We we are going to go out of session.

A

We have someone from the district attorney's office there. um If you will please uh introduce yourself and and tell us who you are and who you represent, and then you will have four minutes of testimony.

C

I am an assistant district attorney in rutherford county, I'm one of two prosecutors assigned to handle nothing but felony child abuse in that jurisdiction.

C

Until and unless we can enact into law the language contained in this proposed bill, we will continue with no good reason to grant a pass to some of the worst cases of child pornography being produced in tennessee, often at the expense of tennessee children, and I just wanted to offer the committee a couple of examples of what I'm talking about. I'm currently prosecuting a man who would pose as a minor and kindly solicit a few compromising images from children. He met online.

C

By compromising I mean unclothed to whatever whatever degree he then dropped the friendly facade and used those photos to extort additional material from his victims. He created a facebook message to victims, parents and friends, with the images attached and threatened. All I have to do is hit send so now you're going to do this. uh This included one instance wherein he coerced a 12 year old girl to photograph her six-year-old little sister below the waist wearing only her under things.

C

Another case I had back in 2016 involved in murfreesboro police department, swat sergeant, who was secretly photographing his nine-year-old daughter naked in the shower, at the behest of a known child sex predator out of fort campbell.

C

The sergeant sent the nude images of to the predator in the course of their hatching schemes of how they might successfully engage in sexual contact crimes against the nine-year-old in the near future. These cases have two things in common one: they involve defendants producing material depicting minors for the purposes of their sexual gratification and two they do not involve child pornography under the current state of tennessee law.

C

I actually attended the forensic interview of the nine-year-old victim in the case of the swat sergeant because the photos did not depict her face. I made the decision to have the forensic interviewer present the victim with sanitized copies of the photos in order to have her confirm that it was in fact her depicted in those images. I will never forget the shock and dismay over her first seeing those photos trying to explain to that nine-year-old victim or any other, similarly situated victim.

C

Why deeply unsettling photographs secretly taking enough for naked in the shower that were subsequently shared with a known child sex predator, uh explaining why that does not count as child pornography is a prospect that I find exceedingly hard to swallow. I can't imagine I could effectively explain it any more than such a victim could effectively understand it.

C

Fortunately, this change in the law, a change that was invited by the tennessee supreme court in recent case law will mean that we won't have to thank you.

A

Thank you. Any uh questions for our guest.

A

Sing nine. Thank you very much for being here for your testimony. We're gonna go back into session cheer. Lady moody.

F

Well, I don't know what more I can say. um I just appreciate the expert testimony and just know as a as a mother and grandmother how how you would feel so. I would renew my motion.

A

Question has been called any objection, seeing none we're now voting on sending house bill 1346 on the full criminal, all those in favor say aye aye as opposed no the ice prevaped. You move on to full. Thank you.

A

Members. Let's go to item number 43 house bill 802 by representative griffey.

G

E

Or what I'm fine with that, but I just I just didn't- want to take them up if I.

A

Represented this one is your domestic violence. The first.

E

A

Of them the safe act and the animal cruelty, if they just wrote them to the library you.

G

A

To proceed with domestic violence today, no.

L

Prefer not to prefer their last calendar for good.

A

E

A

E

A

Objection we'll roll uh hospital 802 to the final calendar.

A

uh Item number 44 house bill 803.

A

Have a motion in a second on that?

A

A

That objection will roll it to last calendar.

A

Members, we are on item number 38.

A

House bill 1416 by chairman curcio motion and second, you recognize thank.

H

You, mr chairman, thank you committee members. We we talk a lot about um in criminal justice if we're doing something, uh you'll probably see a fiscal note on a bill, and this is one of those bills, so we are creating uh the class, a felony of aggravated human trafficking.

H

This is a very important bill in our fight against human trafficking and and ending slavery in tennessee, and I would respectfully request your consideration and move passage.

A

Any questions for our sponsor see no question has been called any objection. Seeing none we're now voting to send house bill 1416 on the full criminal, all those in favor say aye aye, as opposed no the ice prevail.

A

You move on. Thank you item 39 house, bill 1086 by chairman curcio.

A

H

A

You have a motion and secretary recognized thank.

H

You very much, I also have an amendment coded 6125.

A

H

A

On the amendment you recognized on the amendment.

H

Thank you, sir, and um one second, let me get my catch, my ipad up to where I am.

H

H

Thank you members. I appreciate your indulgence members. What this does is. We have a long-standing treatment statute for treatment of dna evidence and new dna evidence in the code. This would this would treat fingerprints largely the same way that we treat dna, so it would require the law enforcement agency that discovers potentially exculpatory evidence to report that evidence to the district attorney of that jurisdiction, the trial court, the individual convicted and the individual's attorney.

H

The idea here is that there's, if there is exculpatory evidence, evidence that shows that the person is truly innocent, um we we do this for dna already. We just don't have a mechanism to do to do this for fingerprints, so um this would this would match that up, and I would request your consideration for passage.

A

Thank you. Any questions for the sponsor on the amendment representative, beck.

I

I was under the impression that we that um this had to be disclosed already. Is that not the case.

H

Thank you, mr chairman. No that's that is not the case and that's what we seek to remedy here. Okay,.

I

H

You thank you any.

A

Other questions.

E

Chairman farmer, now when, when the state has the obligation and it's my understanding to turn over all evidence, they have either to prove your guilt or to prove your innocence, which is exculpatory evidence right. So, on the front end of things I I guess my question is this: is this take? Is this not happening on the front end when, when a defense attorney requests for that information to be turned over, it's not been, or is it a post conviction, issue uh post-trial issue? I should know this, but I don't.

P

H

Asking thank thank you for the question. Thank you, mr chairman. No, so right now the the da's are the only folks that are in possession of that information that would be disclosed beforehand. This would be on a post-conviction basis if new evidence comes forward, there's just not a mechanism right now again, there is for dna, there's just not for fingerprints.

A

Thank you any other questions.

A

Seeing none we're now any objection to the question saying no we'll vote to add amendment number zero, zero, six one. Two five on the house bill, 1086. all those in favor say: aye aye. Those opposed no eyes prevail. We adopt we're on house bill 1086 as amended.

H

Thank you, mr chairman,.

A

Question has been called any objection, seeing none we're now. Voting on house bill 1086, says amended to send on the full criminal. All those in favor say aye aye well, as opposed no the ice prevail.

A

H

A

Members uh we are going to here in a moment we are going to conclude uh for the morning session of the criminal justice subcommittee. We will come back this evening at 5 00 pm in this room to take up the remainder of the bills on this committee, and so with that being said, we will see you at five o'clock. We stand adjourned.

A