►
Description
House Criminal Justice Committee - January 26, 2022 - House Hearing Room 2
A
B
A
You
very
much
members,
as
we
announced
last
week
today,
we
have
some
pretty
important
duties
to
dispense
with.
We
have
a
nominee
that
has
been
presented
to
us
from
the
governor
representative
dixie.
You
wish
to
be
recognized.
Oh
I
apologize.
I
forgot
the
personal
orders
segment,
so
representative,
dixie
you're,
recognized
all.
B
Right,
thank
you.
I
just
didn't
want
to
get
involved
to
get
way
down
in
the
weeds
and
the
real
stuff
happens,
but
I
just
wanted
to
recognize
my
intern.
I
know
everyone
has
interns
here,
but
I
know
I
have
the
best
one
and
they
saved
the
best
one.
For
me,
her
name
is
kamora
reeves
and
she's.
A
tennessee
state,
university
student
and
she's
very
bright
and
she'll
be
coming
around
to
introduce
herself
to
each
one
of
you
and
if
she
doesn't
please
let
me
know
thank
you.
A
E
Hey,
mr
chairman,
and
we
appear
to
have
started
something
that
may
go
on
for
a
bit.
There's
a
lot
of
really
good
interns
in
the
audience
today,
including
lucas
perry,
and
for
all
you
interns
that
are
not
in
our
office.
Lucas
has
had
to
endure
being
given
a
blue
book
and
they
mean
ask
like:
what's
who
you
know?
What's
a
state
flower?
What's
the
state
animal
all
that
kind
of
stuff
and
I'm
gonna
give
him
credit
he
has
yet
to
miss
one
so
member's
not
on
the
record
here.
E
B
F
A
Everybody's
claiming
them
today
all
right,
okay,
seeing
none
others,
as
I
mentioned
before,
we
do
have
some
important
business
ahead
of
us
today.
As
we
announced
last
week,
we
do
have
a
nominee
before
the
committee
for
the
criminal
court
of
appeals,
and
that
is
judge
john
wheeler
campbell
senior
he's
currently
a
criminal
court
judge
in
division
six
and
has
held
that
position
since
2012.
A
I
know
many
of
you
have
had
an
opportunity
to
to
visit
with
judge
campbell
and
today
we'll
have
an
opportunity
to
hear
more
and
also
to
ask
some
questions,
but
I
want
to
briefly
explain
why
we're
here,
because
I
get
this
question
a
lot
I'll
even
have
folks
from
my
district
call
and
say
now
help
me
understand.
You
know
what
you
know
why
this
process
is
happening.
So
a
constitutional
amendment
proposing
the
judicial
confirmation
process
was
approved
by
the
voters
of
the
state.
A
The
roles
of
the
criminal
justice
committee
of
the
house
of
representatives
and
the
judiciary
committee
of
the
senate
are
to
hold
hearings
on
the
nominee
and
to
provide
a
recommendation
either
for
confirmation
of
the
nominee
or
rejection
of
the
nominee
to
their
respective
bodies,
and
so
today
I
want
to
give
everybody
a
sense
of
how
we'll
go
through
this.
I
want
everybody
know:
they'll,
have
an
opportunity
to
ask
questions,
but
the
governor's
chief
counsel
will
introduce
the
nominee
to
the
committee.
A
A
A
C
C
He
went
to
u
of
m
both
as
an
undergraduate
and
a
law
student.
He
worked
for
a
year
at
the
shelby
county,
public
defender's
office,
and
then
he
spent
a
long
and
distinguished
career
at
the
shelby
county
district
attorney's
office.
He
handled
some
of
the
most
major
cases
in
that
office,
including
perhaps
most
notably,
the
post-conviction
litigation
involving
james
earl
ray.
C
He
was
ultimately
the
deputy
district
attorney
general
in
that
office
before
being
appointed
to
the
criminal
court
bench
by
governor
haslam.
He
was
re-elected
or
elected
in
2014
has
spent
nearly
a
decade
as
a
criminal
court
judge
earning
a
stellar
reputation
in
shelby,
county
and
across
the
state.
He
serves
as
the
chairman
of
the
trial
judge's
education
committee,
and
it
is
my
privilege
to
present
him
to
you
as
the
governor's
nominee
for
the
court
of
criminal
appeals.
A
A
G
John
campbell,
I
am
the
currently
sitting-
judge
criminal
court
division
six
in
shelby
county.
I
do
want
to
recognize.
My
wife
is
here
to
watch
these
festivities.
Debbie
campbell
we've
been
married
for
40
years
and
40
years
is
as
long
as
I've
been
at
the
criminal
justice
center
in
memphis,
I
started
as
a
law
clerk
for
judge
axley,
who
I
have
now
in
his
seat
in
1982,
and
I
never
left
the
building.
G
I've
just
changed
floors
during
my
career,
so
it's
very
few
people
can
say
that,
but
I've
been
at
201
poplar
since
it
opened
and
watch
it
go
from
orange
carpeting
to
green
carpeting
to
what
we
have
now.
But
it's
been
a
a
great,
a
great
experience
for
me
and
I
I
know
people
talk
about
criminal
law
and
a
lot
of
attorneys.
I
know
several
of
y'all
are
attorneys.
G
G
I
have
been
a
teacher.
I've
taught
trial
advocacy
since
the
mid
90s,
I'm
I
teach
judicial
ethics
now
and
I
also
teach
a
number
of
areas
for
the
judges
as
well
as
set
up
education
for
the
judges.
I
take
it
very
seriously
and,
like
I
said,
I've
enjoyed
every
minute
of
it,
I'm
open
to
any
questions.
Y'all
may
have,
and
hopefully
I
can.
A
G
And
I
mean
this
there's
a
lot
of
times
when
you're
going
through
a
career
and
you
have
thoughts
about
well,
am
I
doing
the
right
thing
or
not,
and
she's
always
been
there
to
kind
of
keep
encouraging
me
when
sometimes
you
think,
like
you
know,
does
this
really
make
any
difference?
Am
I
really
doing
the
right
thing
and
she's
always
been
there
to
kind
of
keep
me
moving
in
the
right
direction?
I
think-
and
I
really
feel
like
this
has
been
a
joint
effort
to
get
to
this
point.
A
Excellent
well,
thank
you
for
being
here
today
and
thank
you
to
your
wife
as
well
for
for
being
here
making
the
trek.
I
wanted
to
just
start
us
off
by
you
know
it
would
be.
It
would
seem
unusual
to
undertake
a
judicial
confirmation
hearing
without
mentioning,
of
course,
the
major
news
of
the
day,
which
is
at
the
federal
level,
where
we
have
a
supreme
court.
Justice
who's
announced
their
retirement,
and
I
always
want
to
take
the
time
to
talk
about
how
tennessee
leads
and
I've
been.
A
G
If
you
start
making
exceptions
and
saying
you
know
well,
he
you
know,
I
just
feel
sorry
for
him:
it's
not
equal
anymore,
because
then
it
becomes
a
crapshoot
about
who
happens
to
be
on
that
particular
jury.
At
that
particular
time.
The
only
way
we
can
have
equal
justice
is
if
we
apply
the
law
equally,
regardless
of
who
you
are
or
what
you
are
or
anything
else
it.
But
and
that's
what
keeps
us
equal,
and
I
tell
the
jury,
you
know
your.
G
Three
times
I've
applied
an
o7,
I
made
the
three
I
didn't
make.
The
the
selection
judge
folks
did
in
division
six
and
he
went
on
the
federal
bench
and
then
I
applied
again
and
I
got
picked.
But
what
you
have
to
go
through
this
process.
Is
you
have
to
open
yourself
up
to
all
kinds
of
an
investigation?
Tbi
has
to
investigate
you,
your
finances
get
investigated
everything
that
you've
done
in
your
past.
I
mean
bar
complaints.
G
You
know
cases
you
were
involved
in
all
that
stuff
gets
scrutinized,
and
so,
at
the
end
of
the
day
you
have
a
public
hearing,
and
some
of
that
they
ask
you,
you
know
well
what
happened
here.
Why
did
this
happen
to
you,
and
so
you
have
to
lay
yourself
open
and
at
the
end
of
the
day,
three
people's
names
come
out
that
the
committee
says
these
are
the
best
folks
based
on
their
character,
based
on
their
experience.
G
A
Great
thank
you
for
that
response.
Another
thing
that
that
I've,
you
know
occurred
to
me
is
you're
going
from
you
know
a
trial
court
on
to
now
this
appellate
court.
You
know
you're
sort
of
the
quarterback
in
the
trial
court
right.
You
know
the
buck
stops
with
you,
unless,
of
course
something
gets
appealed
after
after
you've
ruled
have
you
thought
about
the
dynamic
working
with
you
know
two
other
judges,
and
you
know
what
we've
been
very
fortunate.
A
I
don't
think
we've
seen
at
the
appellate
level,
the
sort
of
my
way
or
the
highway
mentality.
I
think
it's
more
of
a
collaborative
effort
of
you
know
three,
you
know
very
you
know
intelligent,
well
qualified
people
coming
together
and
and
being
able
to
make
a
decision
together.
Have
you
thought
about
that
dynamic
that
shift.
G
I
have-
and
you
know
again
fortunately,
in
tennessee-
and
I
know
all
the
judges
on
the
appellate
on
the
court
of
criminal
appeals.
I
know
them
I
like
them,
everybody
gets
along
and
I
think
the
the
the
words
you
said
was
consensus.
They
were
there's
a
really
an
attempt
to
find
a
consensus
among
the
three
judges,
the
difference
between
the
trial
bench,
which
I
love,
I
love
being
a
trial
judge.
I
really
do
I'm
not
looking
for
another
job,
because
I
don't
like
the
one
I
have.
G
I
love
my
job,
but
it's
a
completely
different
environment,
you're
you're
case
managing
more
than
anything
you're
dealing
with
the
public
you're
dealing
with
lawyers,
you're
dealing
with
chaos,
most
of
the
time
with
all
the
stuff
that
comes
in,
I
I
handle
about
1300
cases
a
year
as
it
is
now
or
I
dispose
of
about
1300
cases
a
year.
So
there's
a
lot
of
stuff
going
on.
Plus
you
have
trials,
you
got
to
deal
with
that
everything
happens
pretty
quickly
and
very
rarely
do
you
have
an
opportunity
to
come
just
sit
and
think
about.
Okay.
G
What
about
this?
You
have
to
kind
of
make
a
lot
of
times,
spur-of-the-moment
rulings
and
a
lot
of
it.
Based
on
your
experience
and
for
the
most
part,
I
think
the
judges
generally
get
it
right.
Very
few
cases
get
reversed
because
a
judge
has
made
a
really
bad
boneheaded
decision,
most
of
the
reversals
we
get
in
tennessee
a
lot
of
times
coming
out
of
jury
instruction
issues
or
things
like
that
that
a
lot
of
people
even
me
have
questions
about.
Sometimes
about.
G
G
A
Excellent
well,
thank
you
very
much
for
for
responding
to
those
members.
I
think
you've
just
heard
between
those
two
answers:
a
pretty
textbook
description
of
what
this
job
entails
and-
and
I
think
we've
got
a
an
excellent
candidate
here
before
us,
but
certainly
want
to
open
it
up
to
the
to
the
committee
for
questions,
to
the
extent
that
anyone
has
any
I'll
get
you
on
my
list
and
make
sure
we
get
to
you
and
that
list
has
already
started
and
I'll
start
with
chairman
hawk
you're
recognized
sir.
D
Thank
you,
mr
chairman
judge
campbell
very
nice
to
meet
you
today,
yes
and
most
recently,
and
I'm
piqued
by
part
of
the
answer
that
you
gave
just
a
moment
ago.
Educating
our
trial
court
judges
and
I
would
encourage
you-
and
this
has
been
done
previously,
where
our
regional
criminal,
criminal
courts
of
appeal
will
go
into
communities
to
have
session
on
occasion
and
I'll
use,
specifically
in
in
greenville
right.
D
We
met
at
the
at
the
performing
arts
center
and
invited
students
and
and
other
attorneys
and
and
other
courts
from
all
the
east
region
to
come
in,
and
I
would
encourage
you
to
continue
that,
as
I
heard
that
you've
practiced
your
whole
career
in
in
one
building
to
go
outside
those
buildings.
And
what
are
your
thoughts
on
that
and
taking
taking
the
the
court
of
appeals
into
communities.
So
we
can
all
see.
G
G
It
is
to
give
the
public
confidence
that
the
decisions
that
are
being
made
in
criminal
courts
are,
in
fact,
legal
and
valid,
and
so
our
job
as
a
court
of
criminal
appeals
is
to
is
to
review
these
and
make
sure
that
they
are
legitimate
decisions,
decisions
that
can
be
defended
and
give
the
public
confidence
the
scales
project
which
you're
talking
about.
I
think
does
that
and
I
and
I
I've
I've
actually
been
to
scale's
hearing
in
memphis.
G
I
wanted
to
watch
a
proceeding
on
a
case
that
I
was
involved
in
as
a
prosecutor,
so
I
went
and
watched
the
argument
with
the
supreme
court,
so
I
think
it's
a
great
thing.
I
really
do,
and
I
would
be
more
than
happy
to
to
engage
in
that.
I
think
it
is
a
great
thing
to
do
and
I
think
the
public
a
lot
of
times
when
they
kind
of
see
what
really
happens.
I
invite
people
all
the
time
coming
down
to
criminal
court
to
see
what
what
it
really
is
like
and
not
television.
G
You
know
this
is
in
tv,
and
people
are
fascinated
by
when
they
actually
see
the
actual
proceedings.
It's
nothing
like
they
expected.
My
jurors
are
always
like
man,
we
didn't
know.
It
was
like
this
at
all.
A
lot
of
them
are
like
I
have
them
want
to
volunteer
to
go
again.
They
enjoyed
it
so
much
so
I
think
it
takes
the
mystery
out
of
it
and
I
think
it
also.
G
E
Mr
chairman
and
you're
honored
more
a
statement
of
the
question.
Really.
I
just
appreciate
you
putting
your
name
for
it
that
you
and
I
have
served
on
different
committees
together,
and
I've
known
you
for
quite
some
time
now
and
I've
known
you
to
be
very
thoughtful
jurist.
I
know
that
you
have
experience
both
as
an
assistant
public
defender,
but
primarily
as
an
assistant
district
attorney,
but
in
just
our
conversations
it
is.
E
It
has
always
come
across
to
me
that
you
genuinely
look
at
the
individuals
that
are
coming
to
your
courtroom
and
see
the
humanity
of
each
and
every
person
that
is
before
you
and
to
me.
That
is
one
of
the
most
critical
roles
that
a
judge
can
have
that
and,
as
you've
said,
reading
the
law
exactly
as
it
is
written
and
it
is
amongst
my
colleagues
here
that
the
law
should
be
written.
E
The
only
thing
that
I
will
say
is,
I
think
your
community
is
definitely
gonna,
be
at
a
loss
without
you
there
on
the
bench,
because
you've
you've
just
done
so
many
programs
that
you
and
I
have
talked
about
that-
have
helped
out
those
folks
that
are
coming
through
your
courtroom.
So
I
hope
and
pray
that
there
is
someone
that's
able
to
fill
your
shoes
there
and
fill
your
robe
there.
That
will
still
see
the
humanity
in
each
individual
that
comes
before
you.
G
I
appreciate
that,
and
one
thing
I
will
say
talking
about
the
letter
of
the
law-
and
I
talk
about
this
a
lot
because
people
don't
understand
the
sentencing
laws
in
tennessee
very
well,
but
our
sentencing
laws
are
individualized
sentencing
and
I
emphasize
the
fact
that
you
may
have
two
people
who
commit
the
same
offense
but
they're,
two
completely
different
things
and
the
way
our
sentencing
laws
are
drafted.
The
way
you
all
have
drafted
them
makes
it
imperative
for
the
judge
to
consider
the
individual
and
all
these
factors
we
have
to
consider.
G
So
no
two
sentences
are
the
same
and
there
shouldn't
be.
We
shouldn't
have
I
had
a
we
had
a
chinese
delegation
come
in
communist
chinese
and
they
were
we're
going
to
use
computers
to
determine
sentence.
It's
all
going
to
be
number
crunching.
I
thought
that
is
the
most
totalitarian
thing
I've
ever
heard.
You
know
you
take
away
the
fact
or
the
the
the
the
the
the
factor
of
the
judge.
Considering
you
know
things
other
than
just
what's
written
on
on
a
page.
G
You
give
me
so
much
discretion
and
sentencing,
and
I
believe
you
know
the
mandate
is.
You
know
you
have
to
consider
alternatives
before
you
consider
incarceration,
and
you
should
consider
the
least
amount
of
incarceration
necessary
to
effectuate
the
results.
So
those
are
all
those
things
that
you
know
puts
it
on
me
to
make
me
creative
as
a
judge
and
creative
in
sentencing,
and
I
deal
with
a
lot
of
drug
cases.
G
That's
mostly
what
I'm
dealing
with
and
so
we're
always
looking
at
alternatives
and
and
treatment,
programs
that
are
available
and
y'all
done
a
really
good
job
about
expanding
the
day
reporting
program
with
the
department
of
corrections.
It
is
a
fabulous
program.
I
I
will
tell
you
right
now,
when
you
all
are
considering
expanding
it,
it
is
a
lifesaver
and
we
keep
it
pretty
full
in
shelby
county
and
it's
my
last
resort.
Sometimes
for
folks
who've
been
through
other
programs,
they
really
help
them
out.
G
A
B
B
G
G
Had
too
many
cases,
I
probably
have
1500
cases
pending
right
now
I
mean
it's
it's
nuts,
when
you
start
looking
at
it,
but
if
you
start
looking
at
what
it
is
and
what's
going
on
huge
number
of
drug
cases,
I
mean
drug
cases
and
property
offenses
are
pretty
common,
but
in
shelby
county.
The
thing
that
I
see
is
we
have
individuals
who
commit
a
bunch
of
robberies.
I
mean
we'll.
Have
I've
got
a
group
now
I've
got
five
people
that
have
35
cases
amongst
themselves.
G
They
take
up
a
whole
day,
bunches
of
carjacking
carjacking
carjacking
car
check
and
they
do
these
all
these
carjacking
cases
they
get
delayed
because
the
federal
government
is
looking
at
prosecuting
one
or
two
of
them
in
the
federal
court,
which
slows
everything
down
I
mean
it
just
does,
and
I
wish
I
could
speed
it
up,
but
I
can
most
of
the
cases
we
have
are
disposed
of
within
about
90
days.
Most
of
the
cases
I
have
90
days
with
the
drug
cases
the
murder
cases
take
longer
because
the
pre-trial
is
so
much
more
involved.
G
There's
a
lot
of
times,
there's
mental
mental
evaluations
that
are
being
done.
It
takes
sometimes
three
months
to
get
someone
just
seen
by
a
doctor.
Okay,
three
months,
you
can't
do
anything.
I
can't
have
a
hearing
on
the
case
until
I
get
a
order
back
for
or
a
letter
back
saying.
This
person
is
competent
to
proceed
so
that
delays
it.
G
Then
it's
just
and
I
hate
to
say
it
when
you
start
having
things
like
body
cam
I
mean
when
body
cam
came
in
oh
body,
cam
a
murder
case,
and
you
have
15
officers
show
up
at
a
scene.
Each
one
has
a
body
cam.
Each
car
has
two
and
all
those
get
uploaded
the
minute
they
get
back
to
the
station
they're
automatically
uploaded,
and
then
you
have
to
review
those.
G
It
takes
a
long
time
for
that
stuff
to
be
reviewed.
So
we
we
kind
of
have
we
have
a
built-in
lag.
I
mean
if
I
can
get
a
murder
case
tribe
within
a
year.
That's
great,
most
of
the
time.
It's
two
years,
and
now
we've
lost
20
months
because
of
of
covid
in
shelby
county,
our
health
department.
Wouldn't
let
us
try
anything
because
our
courtrooms
were
too
small,
so
we
then
didn't
get
to
start
trying
cases
again
until
the
summer.
So,
let's
so
july
was
when
we
first
started
trying
cases
again.
G
So
from
march
of
20
to
july
of
21,
we
weren't,
we
didn't,
try
anything
and
all
that
stuff
got
backed
up
so,
but
the
number
I
mean
memphis
had
342
murders.
Last
year
I
mean
the
worst
year
I
ever
had
when
I
was
a
prosecutor
was
in
1990
during
the
1991
during
the
height
of
the
crack
epidemic,
when
the
crime
rate
was
actually
much
worse
than
now,
and
we
had
219,
and
that
was
the
record.
G
In
three
years
we've
gone
to
230,
340
and
now
340.
I
think
346
was
this
year
I
mean,
and
then,
if
you
want
to
include
fentanyl
deaths
and
opioid
deaths,
I
think
they
had
600
in
memphis
last
year
and
those
are
all
murder,
twos,
they're,
not
counted
but
and
then
our
police
department's
small.
I
mean
our
police
department's
500
officers
down
and
you
it's
just
a
perfect
storm,
and
so
what
we
get
we
try
to
move
what
we
can
and
most
of
the
cases.
I
think
we
move
pretty
pretty
rapidly.
G
G
A
G
G
G
So
he
said
I
understand,
and
at
that
time
the
the
d.a
was
a
former
pd
hugh
stanton
was
a
pd
and
then
he
became
the
d.a.
He
was
elected
d.a
and
so
a
lot
of
pd's
were
being
hired
by
hugh
stanton.
So
he
hired
me
and
again
I
thought
it
was
a
great.
I
made
a
great
choice.
I
enjoyed
the
pd's
office,
but
I've
really
really
enjoyed
the
da's
office
and
made
it
a
career.
I
was
there
for
27
years.
G
First
of
all-
and
I
think
this
is
the
one
that-
and
I've
talked
to
other
judges
about
this-
being
a
defense
attorney
being
a
public
defender
which
in
some
cases,
your
clients
view
you
as
less
than
a
defense
attorney.
You
know
people
I
mean
I
remember,
have
people
saying
you
know
when
you
become
a
lawyer,
I'm
going
to
hire
you
kind
of
thing.
G
I
said
well,
I'm
already
anyway,
but
you
you
learn
what
it
what
goes
into
representing
somebody
and
there's
a
lot
of
tension
and
there's
a
lot
of
distrust
that
is
part
and
parcel
of
that
relationship,
especially
if
you're,
a
public
defender
and
it's
kind
of
a
shotgun
marriage
and
you're
forced
to
rep.
You
know
this
guy
is
forced
to
have
you
as
a
lawyer
and
there's
a
lot
of
times.
There's
not
a
lot
of
healthy
communication,
not
always,
but
but
many
times.
G
Your
friend
he's
supposed
to
tell
you
what
he
thinks
your
best
choices
are,
and
then
you
make
your
mind
up,
and
I
understand
that
so
lawyers,
sometimes
they
they
need
resets
because
they're
having
problems
with
what
they're
having
client
problems
or
they're
having
to
run
around
and
check
some
other
things
out
and
think
I'm
a
lot
more
amenable
to
that,
because
I've
been
through
that.
I
know
what
it
had.
G
I
think
it's
important
that
they're
ready
and
at
some
point
you
get
the
point
where
you
realize
that
it's
not
gonna
nothing's,
gonna
change
and
you
have
to
push
things
forward,
but
but
I'm
I'm
aware
of
of
the
dynamic,
and
so
I
tend
to
give
lawyers
defense
attorneys
the
opportunity
to
represent,
as
I
give
you
a
chance
to
build
your
case
and
sometimes
that
takes
a
while,
but
also
and
when
I
was
a
prosecutor.
I
did
this.
G
I
always
viewed
or
evaluated
my
cases
as
if
I
was
a
defense
attorney,
because
I
wanted
to
look
for
the
problem,
so
you
know
what
problems
do
I
have
here.
Can
I
prove
this?
What
would
a
defense
attorney
argue
about
these
particular
facts?
Can
I
prove
this
particular
element
of
the
offense
and
I
would
sit
down
there
and
and
just
critique
my
case
as
if
I
was
a
defense
attorney
and
I
thought
it
made
my
cases
stronger.
It
at
least
made
me
prepared
in
court.
G
If
I
thought
something
came
up,
if
something
came
up,
I
was
prepared
to
address
it.
If
you
know
if,
if
the
defense
attorney
raised
it
as
the
issue,
so
those
things
are
invaluable.
I
mean
they're
invaluable
and
I
understand
the
defense
process
and
I
don't
get
mad
at
defense
attorney
when
you
know
judge
I'm
you
know
I.
I
need
to
get
an
investigator
for
this
purpose
or
you
know.
My
client
has
told
me
about
this
at
the
last
minute.
G
I
don't
feel
like
I'm
ready
to
go
to
trial
and
I
can
get
mad
at
him
and
say
you
know.
Why
didn't
you
even
do
all
this?
Like
seeing
other
judges?
Believe
me,
I
had
judge
mccarty
my
first
judge
when
I
was
a
public
defender
who
was
called
smoking
joe
and
he
would
scream
at
you
all
the
time
he
was
always
screaming
at
you,
but
you
knew
if
you
waited
long
enough.
He
would
eventually
do
what
you
asked
him
to
do,
but
you
had
to
put
up
with
the
screaming,
so
I
don't
want.
G
I
didn't
want
to
be
that
person
I
wanted
to
to
you
know,
so
I
have
to
be
firm,
sometimes
and
tell
them
no,
but
I
do
it
in
a
way.
That's
not
demeaning,
because
because
you
know
I've
seen
people
get,
you
know
I've
seen
it
being
a
bully
situation.
I
hate
that,
but
being
a
defense
attorney
being
a
public
defender.
F
F
G
I
used
to
be
a
pr.
I
was
a
prosecutor
in
front
of
joe
brown
for
a
while
judge,
joe
brown,
and
he
was
famous
for
people
come
and
ask
for
probation,
and
he
would
give
him
probation
and
boy.
He
would
give
him
probation
and
they
would
turn
around
and
say
well
judge.
I've
decided
I
just
want
to
do
my
time,
because,
oh
no,
no,
no,
no
you're
on
probation
and
he
would
it
would
be.
You
know
he
would
bring
them
in
about
every
six
months
or
six
weeks,
and
they
would
have
this
day.
G
They
think
they
know
everything
that
they
think
they're
smarter
than
you.
They
think
that
they
can
get
away
with
things
they
think
they're.
A
lot
of
them
are
very
glib
and
very
very
you
know
they
think
they
can
talk
their
way
out
of
things
and
when,
when
you
start
talking
about
okay,
what
is
justice
you're
balancing
what
their
thoughts
are
with
the
victim
and
with
the
law
and,
like
you
say,
sometimes,
justice
is
going
to
look
completely
different
when
you
take
all
those
things
into
consideration.
G
My
experience
with
some
of
these
people
who
come
in
and
say,
oh,
you
know
they're
they're
asking
for
the
moon.
They
know
good
and
well
they're
not
going
to
get
it
they're
just
going
to
ask
for
it,
but,
but
I
think,
judge
drooks
was
correct
in
that
standpoint,
as
justice
is,
justice
is
justice,
and
I've
had
people
ask
me
for
forgiveness,
and
things
like
that.
I
said:
that's,
that's
not
my
my
place.
You
know
the
victims,
families
here
you
can
ask
them
for
forgiveness.
G
F
G
Give
you
all
three
okay
again,
it
kind
of
depends
on
what
you're
looking
at
when
I'm
dealing
with
a
lot
of
these
folks.
I'm
dealing
with
have
horrible
drug
problems,
and
you
know
I
would
love
for
them
to
be
able
to
rehabilitate
themselves
because
the
what's
the
goal.
What's
our
goal,
our
goal
is
to
just
to
stop
recidivism.
Our
goal
is
to
have
these
people.
If
they
come
to
the
system,
they
don't
come
back.
That's
that's
the
goal
and
that's
our
goal
across
the
board.
G
G
G
There's
there's
limited
resources,
and
you
know
you
talk
about
rehabilitate
restore
them
back
to
some
kind
of
productive
situation
that
becomes
really
difficult
when
you
have
limited
resources
and
someone
who
is
a
drug
addict
and
they're,
also
mentally
ill
and
they're,
probably
related
they're
self-medicated,
that's
frustrating
for
the
court
and
you
know,
even
though
we
get
put
in
that
social
worker
mold.
Sometimes
I
think
over
the
years
we've
kind
of
gotten
that
role,
even
though
I
think
we're
not
really
well
suited
for
it.
We
have
to
look
for
alternatives.
G
We
have
to
look
for
ways
to
solve
those
problems,
but
then
you
have
individuals
who
commit
a
crime
that
is
so
violent
or
so
heinous,
and
you
talk
about
retribution
yeah
you're
going
to
you
want
to
put
them
in
a
situation
where
maybe
they'll
never
come
out
in
the
public
again,
which
I've
had
to
do
a
few
times.
I
had
a
guy
that
was
a
child
rapist.
He
got
convicted
of
rape,
child
rape.
He
had
six
prior
convictions
for
it.
G
He
had
gotten
out
of
prison
after
17
years
and
did
it
again
so
I
gave
him
90
years
because
that's
what
the
law
said
I
could
give
him.
I
couldn't
give
him
more
than
that.
I
could
only
give
him
90
years,
but
I
wanted
to
make
sure
that
he
did
not
ever
come
back
into
the
society
again
because
I
knew
he
was
going
to
reoffend.
So
you
have
you
know
it's
it's
a
it's
a
that's
why
I
think
it's
so
important
the
way
that
the
laws
are
set
up
and
you
all
have
set
them
up.
G
It's
it's
individualized,
and
so
you
approach
that
from
the
standpoint
that
this
person
needs
x.
This
person
needs
y.
This
person
needs
z
and
I
have
the
ability
to
do
that
based
on
the
law
following
the
law
that
you've
set
out
for
me.
So
I
hope
that
answers
your
question,
but
that's
that's
the
best
way.
I
think
I
can
do
it.
G
F
G
F
G
When
you
talk
about
blended
sentencing
is
making
sure
you
pick
the
right.
The
right
person
is
being
put
in
that
situation,
because
otherwise
you
don't
want
failure,
because
people
will
look
at
the
failure
and
say
this
is
terrible.
We
don't
want
to
do
it
and
it
will
cause
you
to
possibly
sacrifice
a
program
that
may
work
for
some,
but
but
here's.
The
thing
I
wanted
to
mention
is
that
and
again
with
juveniles,
and
I've
told
this
to
the
governor
and
people
like
that.
We're
talking
about
what
do
we
do
about?
G
It
makes
a
lot
more
sense,
sometimes
to
put
money
on
the
front
end
than
on
the
back
end.
If
you
can
keep
kids
from
coming
in
the
system,
you
don't
have
to
worry
about
it
and
I'm
talking
eight
nine
and
ten
year
olds,
I've
seen
12
year
olds,
who
are
hard
and
gang
members,
and
you
can't
do
anything
with
them.
I
mean
we
can
try.
G
B
G
Again,
I
don't
know
what
the
circumstances
what,
but
when
I
was
talking
to
the
folks,
we
were
dismissing
the
case
on
him.
He
was
a
suspect
in
four
homicides.
He
was
16
years
old.
I
mean
we
have
some
really
hardened
criminals
at
15
and
16
years
old
and
the
juvenile
court
system.
You
know,
I
don't
think,
was
really
set
up
for
that
type
of
criminality,
but
we're
dealing
with
it
and
those
people
will
get
transferred,
and
I
do
I
had
a
17
year
old
I
sentenced
to
eight
years
recently
for
for
aggravated
robbery.
G
F
A
B
G
And
I
think
it
depends
on
the
thing:
that's
strange
about
tennessee.
If
you
look
at
the
statistics
and
this
this
part,
people
have
a
hard
time
putting
their
head
around
west
tennessee
has
less
recidivism
than
middle
or
east,
and
you
think
it's
just
the
opposite,
because
you
think
oh
memphis,
our
pursuit
of
his
recidivism
rate
is
actually
less
than
middle
and
east
tennessee.
I
think
part
of
that
is
because
of
methamphetamine.
I
think
meth
meth
defendants
that
I
deal
with
more
or
most
like
are
more
likely
to
reoffend.
They
just
are
they're
they're.
G
G
West
tennessee
has
a
lot
of
resources.
When
it
comes
to
addiction,
addiction
issues,
we
have
places
we
can
put
people
for
for
treatment,
there's
a
lot
of
counties
in
tennessee
that
don't
have
resources
when
we
we
we
were
on.
I
was
on
the
governor,
lee's
criminal
justice
reinvestment
task
force
two
years
ago.
Some
of
you
all
were
on
that.
G
I
just
think
that
that's
a
that's
a
that's
a
step,
that's
that
I
think
they
get
around
a
lot
of
criminals
and
they're
with
criminals
24
7,
and
I
think
it
does
have
an
impact
on
their
their
chances
of
breaking
out
of
that
cycle.
But
if
you
can,
if
you
have
an
opportunity
to
put
them
in
a
program
early
on
where
they
can
get
drug
treatment
or
they
can
get
mental
health
treatment,
they
can
address
that
problem.
Maybe
they
won't
be
back
committing
criminal
offenses.
G
G
G
Shelby
county
jail
a
year
or
two
ago,
is
the
largest
mental
hospital
in
the
state
I
mean
these
are.
These
are
serious
problems
and
the
criminal
justice
system
has
now
been
tasked
to
deal
with
this
and
we're
really
not
set
up
for
it,
but
we're
trying
the
best
we
can.
But
resources
are
huge.
Morgan
county
that
was
set
up
as
a
kind
of
a
satellite
or
regional
treatment
facility
is
a
fantastic
idea.
We
need
to
have
more
of
them
around
the
state
to
give
people
an
option
to
get
people
out
of
their
county.
G
It
really
helps
with
drug
treatment
when
they're
not
around
the
same
people,
all
the
time
that
they've
been
doing
drugs
with.
So
it's
a
huge
deal
to
move
people
away
from
their
counties.
Those
things
are,
those
things
are
really
important.
Again.
We
were
going
to
recommend
that
then
the
pandemic
hit
and
the
money
became
a
problem,
so
it
really
didn't
get
anywhere.
But
it's
definitely.
When
you
start
talking
about
reform
issues,
we
actually
have
a
pretty
good
framework
in
tennessee.
It's
just
not
funded.
B
B
Years
ago
it
used
to
be
25.
right.
It
was
up
to
51,
because,
unfortunately,
democrats
on
the
federal
level,
the
crime
bill
which
much
research
has
shown
how
much
it
has
played
a
negative
impact
on
the
criminal
justice
system.
Do
you
think
that
it
will
have
a
negative
impact
to
change
one
of
those,
the
possibility
of
parole
to
25
years
back
to
original
standing,
given
that
tennessee
has
one
of
the
largest
sentencing
around
this
particular
crime
in
the
country.
G
Well,
let
me
just
say
this:
in
my
40
years,
life
went
from
30
calendar
years
to
25
calendar
years
to
51
calendar
years
before
that,
in
in
the
60s
it
was,
life
was
actually
12
years.
That's
why
everybody
got
99
years.
The
prosecution
would
ask
the
the
jury,
it
was
jury
sentencing
they
wanted
99
years,
which
you
had
to
do
25
to
get
paroled
on
99..
G
Here's,
the
problem
that
I
have
and
again
this
is
this-
is
strictly
y'all's
call,
but
I
can't
tell
you
how
many
families
I
sat
down
with
as
a
prosecutor,
we
were
talking
about
one
of
their
family
members
was
murdered
and
maybe
we're
looking
at
the
death
penalty
and
we
said,
look
he'll
take
life,
life
is
51
years
and
the
family
said.
That's
fine.
We
agree
with
that.
G
You
don't
want
to
have
to
come
back
10
years
later
and
said:
yeah,
it's
going
to
be
25.
Now,
there's
it's
not
really
a
contract
necessarily,
but
you
know
you've
told
folks.
This
is
what's
going
to
happen
because
here's
what
the
law
is
now
I
used
to
always
say
you
know
it's
still
up
to
the
legislature,
but
I
said
this
is
what
it
is
now
it's
51
years
and
there
are
people
that
quite
possibly
would
have.
G
The
state
would
have
sought
the
death
penalty
on
if
the
family
was
really
pushing
the
issue,
or
I
mean
I
never
really
made
the
the
family
never
made
me.
I
never
let
the
family
make
me
make
that
decision,
but
if
you're
on
the
fence
about
something
the
family
says,
we
really
want
this,
then
you
know
sure
you're
going
to
go
for
it,
but
that
gave
you
an
option
where
yeah
it's
a
lot
of
time
and
but
murder.
G
G
Okay,
just
executed,
I
have
no
problem
sentencing
to
51
years.
That's
what
it
was.
You
know
that
the
state
wasn't
asking
for
life
or
life
without
parole,
so
I
sentenced
him
to
life,
and
you
know
those
those
cases
I
mean
golly.
I've
seen
some
horrible
things
and
and
and
the
fact
that
we're
not
sentencing
people
to
death
in
tennessee
shelby
county
used
to
be.
Oh,
everybody
goes
to
get
the
death
penalty.
We
haven't
had
a
death.
G
G
We
haven't
been
putting
people
on
death
row
there's.
The
other
side,
though,
is
the
families
have
gotten
some
satisfaction
in
knowing
that
this
person
is
going
to
be
punished.
My
child
is
in
the
ground
for
look
for
the
rest
of
my
life
and
everybody
else's
life.
This
person
should
also
be
out
of
away
from
the
public
for
for
the
rest
of
his
life,
and
I
think
that
you
know.
I
think
that
some
people
think
well
gosh.
That's
a
lot
of
time,
but
you
know,
murder
is
murder.
G
A
B
A
Members
you've
heard
the
motion.
It
was
properly
seconded
any
discussion
of
that,
seeing
none.
We
are
ready
to
vote
all
those
in
favor
of
a
positive
recommendation
for
judge
campbell,
please
signify
by
saying
aye
hi
those
opposed
the
eyes.
Have
it,
sir.
Congratulations.
Thank
you
for
being
here
today.
Thank
you
for
your
time.
You
spent
with
this
committee.
Thank
you.
Yes,
sir
members,
we
do
have
one
bill
before
us
and
that
will
take
us
to
our
calendar.
A
C
C
F
C
C
Some
data
from
the
healthresearchfoundation.org
says
that
60
of
those
on
community
supervision
will
re-offend,
who
have
been
given
a
community
supervision
for
rape.
There's
also
some
data
from
dr
fobert
out
of
union
university
that
did
some
research
of
12
600
male
students
in
our
colleges
of
those
there
were
roughly
2071
sexual
assaults
and
of
those
950
assaults
46
of
those.
C
So
let
me
clarify
46
percent
of
those
that
were
convicted
of
sexual
assault.
Self-Reported
they
had
they
had
committed
that
act,
10
or
more
times
so
many
times
our
rapists
are
not
just
rapists,
they're
serial
rapists,
so
I
think
it's
very
pertinent
that
we
remove
them
from
the
general
population
and
they
serve
the
entirety
of
their
sentence.
A
C
B
Michelle
fogerty
legal
services,
currently
probation
defendants
are
not
eligible
for
probation
for
vehicular
homicide
with
by
intoxication
aggravated
kidnapping,
aggravated
robbery
aggravated
sexual
battery
statutory
rape
by
an
authority,
figure
aggravated
child
abuse
or
neglect
a
class
one
controlled
substance
of
a
certain
amount.
Sexual
exploitation
of
children
aggravated
sexual
exploitation
of
children
and
especially
aggravated
sexual
exploitation
of
children.