►
Description
House Higher Education Subcommittee House Hearing Room 3
A
Okay,
ladies
and
gentlemen,
thank
you
for
your
patience,
appreciate
you
being
here
today,
tuesday
february,
the
15th.
I
hereby
call
this
subcommittee
higher
education
into
order
and,
let's
see
phantom
secretary,
please
take
the
roll.
A
Thank
you
for
that.
Okay,
before
we
begin
do
I
have
any
personal
orders:
okay,
seeing
none
a
little
bit
of
housekeeping,
we
do
have
several
lottery
bills
today
that
will
end
up
going
on
the
calendar.
Some
of
those
members
want
to
go
ahead
and
present
their
bills
and
leader
gant
has
been
kind
enough,
considering
the
schedule
to
roll
to
the
hill.
A
So
the
first
thing
we're
going
to
do
is
roll
that
first
bill
house
bill
2670
to
the
hill
of
today's
calendar,
which
will
quickly
move
us
to
item
number
two,
let's
see,
and
the
sponsor
is
asked
to
roll
that
bill
for
one
week.
So
moving
right
along
here
brings
us
to
item
number
three
by
representative
smith.
It's
my
understanding.
You
want
to
roll
that
bill
for
one
week,
but
you
would
like
to
be
recognized
today.
A
Thank
you
for
that.
Moving
right
along
here
item
number
four
by
representative
ogles
representative
you're,
going
to
present
today.
B
No
chairman
and
members
of
the
committee,
if
I
can
I'd
like
to
roll
this
one
week,
I've
got
some
new
language,
not
some
new
language,
some
information
from
the
administration,
so
I'd
like
to
clarify
a
couple
things
and
then
represent
next
week.
If
that
be
okay,
easy.
A
A
A
House
bill
2090
item
number,
seven
on
our
calendar,
also
by
chairman
white.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
I'd
like
to
roll
that
to
the
lottery
calendar
also.
I
will
make
that
happen.
Thank
you,
sir,
for
that
and
wow
just
like
that.
We're
back
to
the
top
of
the
calendar
again
later
gantt
house
bill
2670.
If
you're
ready,
you
are
recognized.
E
Thank
you,
chairman
and
committee,
and
share
the
same
sentiments
as
mark
representative
white,
just
trying
to
figure
out
which
bill
rohn.
I
know
the
sentiment
that
you're
conveying
there
so
I'm
sorry
excuse.
E
Thank
you,
chairman
committee.
It's
a
privilege
to
be
before
you
all
today
and
I
will
try
to
be
as
brief
as
possible,
because
I
know
we
have
a
very
busy
schedule.
Let
me
be
clear:
this
is
I'm
privileged
of
carrying
this
bill
for
speaker
sexton.
This
is
a
initiative
that
is
dear
to
him
and
he
is
entrusting
me
with
this
legislation.
So,
let's
just
hope
I
represent
him.
E
This
legislation
before
you
today
is
an
effort
to
ensure
that
our
public
universities,
credible
diversity
efforts,
aren't
undermined
by
initiatives
that
seek
to
drive
tennesseans
further
apart
in
tennessee.
We
believe
that
prosperity
is
greatly
aided
by
progress
towards
unity,
and
we
reject
the
promotion
of
concepts
that
attempt
to
cast
a
shadow
on
groups
of
people
due
to
factors
not
in
their
control.
E
E
These
concepts
are
defined
as
such
because
they
declare,
because
they
declare
that
one
race
or
sex
is
inherently
superior
or
inferior
to
another.
Declare
that
race
or
sex
is
determining
fa
is
a
determining
factor
in
an
individual's
moral
character,
impose
guilt
and
anguish
based
on
an
individual's
race
or
sex,
declare
that
the
united
states
is
fundamentally
racist
or
sexist.
E
While
we
believe
that
public
college
students
and
employees
shall
be
able
to
decide
what
topics
which
they
wish
to
engage
in,
we
maintain
that
it
should
be
just
that.
A
decision
this
bill
takes
aim
at
any
mandated
rejection
of
an
adherence
to
divisive
concepts
as
a
prerequisite
for
graduation
promotion
tenure
or
to
be
hired.
E
E
E
Also,
I'm
sorry,
mr
chairman,
sir,
there
is
an
amendment
and
that
I
think
we
need
to
add.
A
All
right,
in
order
to
add
this
to
the
bill,
I
need
a
motion
on
it
and
a
second.
We
have
motion
a
second
with
that:
let's
go
ahead
and
take
a
quick
vote
to
mr.
E
A
With
that
explanation,
are
there
any
questions
about
the
amended
portion?
Okay,
we
already
took
care
of
the
motion
in
the
second,
so
with
that,
let's
go
ahead
and
take
a
vote
all
those
in
the
affirmative
to
add
the
amendment
please
indicate
by
saying
aye
any
opposed
police
say
no
all
right,
and
it
is
on
the
bill
all
right
with
that.
I
have
a
question
from
representative
paul.
Please.
F
Thank
you,
chairman
lafferty
leader,
kent,
higher
higher
education
has
a,
I
guess,
a
long
tradition
of
of
academic
freedom,
where
we
present
different
ideas
in
the
classroom
and-
and
I
thought
I'd
try
and
get
a
sense
of
how
this
bill
would
impact
that
one
of
the
forms
that
I
think
academic
freedom
might
take
in
an
economics
class,
just
as
an
example,
would
be
where
an
economics
faculty
member
might
present
different
economic
systems
in
different
countries
around
the
world.
F
F
One
of
my,
I
guess,
favorite
examples
of
that
might
be
to
look
at
a
picture
of
the
korean
peninsula
at
night,
just
after
dusk,
from
space
that
shows
the
southern
half
of
the
peninsula,
all
lit
up
south
korea's
got
a
market
economy
and
the
northern
part
of
the
peninsula
being
dark.
It's
got
a
marxist
economy
or
a
communist
system,
and
it's
dark
because
they
don't
have
the
resources
and
electricity
to
power
lights
all
all
night
long.
I
guess
my
question
is
this:
in
an
economics
class?
E
Mr
chairman,
no
it
does
not
it
that
this
is
what
this
bill
actually
promotes.
Is
that
dialogue
between
two
different
views,
so
it
obviously
respects
that
academic
freedom
in
that?
In
that
sense,
you
know,
I
hope
that
kind
of
answers.
E
Your
question
I
mean
you
can
obviously
go
back
and
forth
on
divisive
issues,
but
as
long
as
it's
taught
in
and
not
a
way
of
indoctrination,
you
know,
I
think
that's
what
this
bill
actually
protects
is
that
discussion
of
both
both
views
not
trying
to
shut
down
one
side
or
the
other.
F
F
I
guess
I
thought
it
might
be
useful
for
us
to
find
out
how
that
legislation
has
has
been
implemented
in
the
sense
that
have
there
been
complaints
across
the
state
in
grades
k
through
12
and
how
some
of
with
regard
to
the
provisions
of
that
law,
I'm
thinking
if
we
find
out
a
little
bit
more
about
how
that
legislation
has
been
implemented,
might
help
us
understand
better
the
implications
of
this
legislation
for
higher
education
right,
you're,
recognized.
E
F
I
didn't
know
if
there
had
been
any
violations
or
if
any
reports
had
been
made
at
the
state
level,
violating
the
legislation
last
year.
But
again
that
may
be.
That
may
be
off
subject,
but
I'm
just
asking
because
the
two
bills
strike
me
as
being
similar.
One
applies
to
grades
k
through
12..
The
other
one
applies
to
higher
education,
just
wondering
if
we
had
any
information
about
our
experiences
with
last
year's
bill
chairman
I'll.
E
Consult
with
speaker
sexton
and
see
if
he
might
have
some
input
on
that
and
get
back
to
you
on
that.
So.
G
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
chairman,
again
seeking
clarity.
Would
I
be
overstating
to
say
that
what
this
bill
would
do
is
to
limit
or
remove,
what's
called
a
course
on
critical
race
theory?
It's
a
college
level
course.
I
believe
it's
in
graduate
school
and
so
forth
with
this
bill
limit
that
from
being
the
concepts
from
being
taught
in
college.
E
B
G
And
the
survey
that
you
spoke
of
it
talks
about
freedom
of
speech.
Is
that
the
correct
term?
G
Yes,
okay,
but
you
don't
see
when
I
see
this
list
of
items
of
what's
considered
divisive.
What
section
of
the
bill
are
you
I'm.
B
G
E
Well,
under
section
three,
it
defines
divisive
concepts,
race
or
sex
scapegoating
or
race,
or
sex
stereotyping
consistent
with
state
law
governing
k-12,
divisive
concepts
and
the
2020
trump
administration
executive
order,
139
50,
combating
race
and
sex
stereotyping.
E
E
To
your
previous
question,
try
to
help
you
understand
a
little
bit
about
that.
I
mean
we.
We
can't
obviously
mandate
them,
but
you
know
they
can
be
obviously
still
be
discussed.
If
that.
B
G
G
Do
we
have
any
data
that
says
putting
forth
a
concept
of
this
nature,
dealing
with
divisive
concepts
and
so
forth?
Is
it
a
best
practice
anywhere
in
the
nation?
Has
this
been
studied,
or
is
this
I'm
going
to
use
the
term?
Is
this
an
emotional
reaction
to
the
concept
of
criminal
race,
critical
race
theory.
C
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
I
believe
leader
gant
actually
just
addressed
what
I
was
going
to
to
bring
up.
Unless
I'm
misreading
the
bill.
It
doesn't
say
that
those
concepts
cannot
be
discussed
or
debated,
or
you
know
thoroughly
hashed
out
in
class.
It
just
says
that
there
will
be
no
adverse
action
taken
against
an
employee
of
that
university
or
a
student
of
that
university.
C
If
they
say
I
don't
believe
this
or
they
argue
the
counterpoint,
and
so
I
think
it
is
ensuring
that
our
that
our
universities,
you
know,
remain
places
of
open
dialogue,
but
not,
but
not
institutions
were
a
forced
agreement
with
an
idea,
and
so
you
can.
You
can
still
debate
and
talk
about
the
both
the
negative
and
positive
aspects
of
an
idea.
But
this
this
bill
ensures
that
you
will
not
be
forced
into
agreeing
with
it
for
fear
of
some
sort
of
adverse
action.
Would
that
be
accurate
to
say
leader
grant?
Yes,.
E
I'm
glad
you
good
good
point,
I'm
glad
you
brought
it
up.
Let
me
just
go
to
section
four
and
just
kind
of
redefine
what
we're
doing
in
relation
to
that
prohibits.
Adverse
treatment
of
public
higher
education,
student
or
employee
for
failing
to
ascent
to
a
divisive
concept,
prohibits
any
requirement
to
adopt
a
specific
ideology.
Political
viewpoint
to
graduate
receive
tenure
or
a
promotion.
E
Further
prohibits
a
public
institution
of
higher
education
from
ask
for
from
asking
for
the
ideological
or
political
viewpoint
of
a
student
job,
applicant
job
candidate
or
a
candidate
for
promotion
or
tenure
authorizes
an
individual
who
believes
one
and
two
section
one
and
two
has
been
violated
to
pursue
legal
remedies
available
in
court.
So
if
there
isn't
there,
there
isn't
a
vehicle
for
that
disagreement
to
take
that
up.
C
D
Thank
you
chairman,
as
I
try
to
get
my
head
around
this
bill
and
it's
like
the
one
we
did
in
k
through
12
last
year,
and
also
we
have
another
one
on
the
calendar
today
trying
to
understand
that.
Would
this
be
an
accurate
statement.
D
If
someone
who
appreciates
history
this-
and
I
think
this
is
what's
been
tough
over
last
year
and
this
year-
to
get
the
message
across
correct
me.
If
I'm
inaccurate
on
the
way
I
see
these
bills,
no
one
has
opposed
the
free
and
open
discussion
of
concepts.
History,
all
the
issues,
it's
free
and
open.
It's
when
the
pendulum
swings
so
far
to
where
there
is
push
that
where
you
cannot
have
free
and
open
discussion,
because
there
is
a
movement
to
say
that
you're
wrong,
we're
right
and
now
we're
into
the
higher
education
the
colleges.
D
So
if
you
go
back
through
history
and
time,
the
pendulum
swings
back
and
forth,
and
so
I
what
I
see
this
is:
let's
not
violate
the
free
and
open
discussion,
but
let's
not
try
to
indoctrinate
our
young
people
into
a
certain
belief,
because
that's
what
I
believe
or
you
believe
would
that
be
a
free
and
accurate
description
of
what
we're
trying
to
do
with
such
legislation.
You
recognize.
E
And
also,
mr
chairman,
I
think
this
has
been
an
ongoing
discussion
and
normally
our
universities
are
not
going
to
be
conducive
to
this
type
of
legislation,
but
you
know,
I
think
this
is
something
that
brings
a
more
fairness
approach
to
the
way
we
look
at
these.
You
know
just
like
representative
white
just
described.
It
gives
an
open
conversation
to
both
sides
of
an
issue
that
may
be
divisive
and
not
an
indoctrination
type
approach
to
it,
where
one
side
is
only
presented
and
not
the
other
side.
E
So
so
I
think
this
legislation
is
fair,
while
the
universities
may
not
like
it.
You
know,
I
think
this
is
a
fair
and
balanced
approach
to
to
the
issues
that
we
all
grasp
with
in
the
education
of
higher
higher
education.
So
but
mark
makes
a
great
point
and
thank
you
for
making
that
point.
Certainly.
H
There's
your
promotion
you're
a
chairman
in
my
eyes
right
and
and
so
and
and
I
just
want
clarity
so
miss.
Do
you
mind
if
you
don't
just
give
me
a
couple
minutes
you
don't
mind,
I
won't
I'll,
be
nice.
Thank
you.
He
nodded
his
head
after
I
said
I'll
be
nice,
so
so
I'm
trying
to
I'm
trying
to
see
a
scenario,
because
I
was
looking
at
the
attendance
of
the
bill
and,
and
it
says.
H
I'm
glad
to
see
this
in
here
promotes
so
you
know
this
is
one
of
the
divisive
deals
that
you
know
promotes
or
advocates.
The
violent
overthrow
of
the
united
states
government
glad
to
see
that
in
there,
but
but
there
was
some
language
in
here
or
something
in
the
tenants
that
I
saw,
I
think,
maybe
let's
go
back
here
on
this
page.
H
That
would
say:
oh
okay,
an
individual
should
feel
discomfort,
guilt,
anguish
or
another
form
of
psychological
distress
solely
because
of
the
individual's
race
or
sex,
and
so,
if,
if
there's
a
discussion
going
on
in
one
of
our
university
classrooms-
and
they
say
it,
talks
of
you
know-
discussion
is,
let's
say
slavery,
and
you
know
someone
feels
uncomfortable
with
the
conversation
and
there's
no
one
directing
one.
You
know
the
discussion
one
way
or
other
it's
just
an
open
discussion,
open
dialogue
about
slavery
will
and,
and
someone
says
they
feel
uncomfortable.
H
Will
they
will
they?
You
know
the
university
then
be
outside
of
the
tenets
of
this
law.
If
this
law
is
passed.
B
H
The
bill
defines
divisive
concept
as
concept
that
and
under
f
an
individual
should
okay,
I
I
stand
clear.
I
stand
clear
because
it
says
if
they
should
feel
discomfort
for
for
the
guilt
and
anguish.
Let
me
ask
you
this,
and
let
me
ask
you
this
so
with
the
deal
that
the
that
the
governor
is
is
working
on
with
hillsdale
college,
to
create
this
institution
of
informed
patriotism
with
with
ut
and
hillsdale
college
is
a
of
course.
H
You
know
christian
college,
and
you
know
that
I
think
is
being
quoted
to
come
to
the
state
to
create
this,
this
college,
inside
of
our
university.
H
How
does
that
work
with
this
law?
If
this
law
is
passed
because
there's
a
specific
space
that
they're
going
into
regarding,
I
guess
in
informed
patriotism,
and
you
know
if
that
is
what
their
their
goal
is
and-
and
you
know,
let's
flip
it
on
another
side,
let's
say
if
it
was
a
college
that
you
know
was
specific
at
you
know
and
funded
at
the
university
of
memphis,
for
that
that
was
specifically
built
around.
H
E
Well,
representative
parker
said
I
don't
want
to
intersect
these
two
pieces
of
legislation
into
this
one,
I'm
actually
going
to
be
carrying
that
piece
of
legislation
for
the
governor
that
you're
referring
to
the
civics
education
bill.
So
I'd
rather
us
focus
when
that
legislation
is
before
you
drill
me
all
you
want,
but
let's
focus
on
this
legislation.
This
is
speaker
sexton's
bill,
so
I
don't
want
to
intersect
the
two
because
they
do
different
things.
Obviously,
so
we
can
have
that
discussion.
You
know
when
I
bring
that
legislation
for
the
governor
before
this
committee.
E
H
E
H
Get
it
get
a
you
know,
better
understanding.
You
know
based
on
based
on
the
tenets
of
of
you
know,
what's
in
the
bill
and-
and
let
me
be
clear,
I'll
call
you,
chairman
representative
again,
I
you
know
I
I
agree
with
you
know
the
fact
that
there
should
be
open
dialogue.
You
know
and
and
discussion
you
know,
and
not
just
in
our
university,
but
to
me
and
in
our
in
our
k
through
or
k
through
12
classrooms,
also
just
open
discussion
and
allowing
people
to
be.
H
You
know
informed
truthfully
on
on
our
history,
and
I
always
say
you've
heard
me
say
it
before
that
you
know
our
history
is
dynamic.
Is
it's
an
extremely
dynamic
history
in
our
country
it
truly
is
and
and
and
and
I'm
you
know,
I
love
you
know
studying
and
learning
more
about
our
history
and
our
country,
but
I
just
I
just
I'm
I'm
concerned
that
that
you
know
we're
we're
we're
actually
stifling.
H
You
know
those
open
conversations
when
you
know
we
we
start
regulating
those
conversations
now.
Let
me
also
be
clear,
representative
gantt.
That
representative.
H
Ask
questions
yes,
sir,
you
know
now
let
me
just
close
with
this.
You
know.
H
I
hope
that
I
hope
that
we
can
actually
get
to
you
know
or
or
or
stay
in
the
space
to
where
we're
freely
able
to
discuss
all
of
these
issues,
and
you
know,
and
and
you
know,
because
that's
what's
going
to
bring
on
healing
for
our
country
but
and
and-
and
I
also
want
to
make-
you
know-
ensure
that
that
no
one
is
intentionally
made
to
feel
uncomfortable,
because
we
don't
I'm
not
trying
to
make
people,
we
don't
want
people
to
feel
uncomfortable,
but
we
also
want
to
make
sure
that
the
truth
is
being
spoken.
H
You
know
inside
our
classrooms
and
universities,
and
you
know,
and
unfortunately
some
of
our
history
is
uncomfortable
and
and
it's
not
all
good,
but
but
the
truth
needs
to
be
spoken,
and
I
just
hope
that
we're
not
stifling
the
truth
with
any
legislation
that
comes
before
this
body.
Thank
you,
sir.
Thank
you
for
that.
E
Respond
obviously,
this
does
not.
This
is
to
protect
what
you
just
described.
This
does
not
limit
the
discussion.
You
know
you
know
just
just
the
requirements,
putting
a
requirement
on
something
agreeing
with
a
certain
ideology
ideology
in
order
to
graduate
that's
what
this
cuts
out.
H
Last
one
he
said,
thank
you
thanks,
sir,
and
and
and
thank
you
for
that-
thank
you
for
that,
but
those
requirements
in
the
hillsdale
college.
I
know
we're
going
to
discuss
it
on
another
one.
It's
going
to
be
informed
patriotism,
that's
going
to
be
a
requirement,
I
would
assume-
and
so
you
know
I
just
you
know
just
think
about
it.
How
is
this
bill
going
to
jail
with
that?
As
it
comes
down
the
road?
You
don't
have
to
answer
that
right
now,
miss
representatives.
G
Thank
you
again,
mr
chairman
representative
gant
earlier
we
talked
about
free
and
open
dialogue
and
I'm
trying
to
be
clear
on
it.
I
guess
an
issue
I
think,
with
something
about
dealing
with
both
sides
of
an
issue
if
we
use
the
holocaust
as
an
example,
how
would
that
dialogue
take
place
when
you
talk
about
both
sides
of
it?
G
E
G
All
right,
sir,
and
one
or
two
more,
if
I
may,
mr
chairman,
where
there's
mandatory
training
for
students
or
employees,
my
understanding
is,
if
there's
one
or
two
one
or
more
of
the
divisive
concepts
that
this
would
be
in
violation
of
this,
which
section
are
you
referring
to.
E
G
Sorry
believe
this
this
is
conducting
that's
the
spirit,
prohibits
the
public
institution
of
hydro
is
number
one
under.
A
G
G
E
Asking
a
question:
you
talk
about
the
discussion
of
it
in
the
classroom.
Yes,
sir!
No,
that's
what
that's
what
we
just
got
through
discussing.
I
mean
this.
This
protects
that
free
exchange
of
ideas,
whether
you're
for
that
idea
or
you
know
or
against
it
I
mean
this-
does
not
prohibit
the
dialogue
that
takes
place
in
the
classroom.
Okay,.
G
E
C
Thank
you
and
again
just
a
little
bit
of
a
broken
record
here
again
it
does,
and
this
is
a
question
you
tell
me
if
it's
accurate,
it
does
not
prevent
the
discussion
of
concepts,
it
prevents
adverse
action
being
taken
against
a
student
or
staff
member.
If
they
say
I
don't
believe
that
is
that
accurate?
Yes,
thank
you
very
much.
A
Okay,
thank
you
for
that.
I
don't
have
any
more
questioners
seeing
none.
I
guess
we're
ready
to
vote
on
the
bill
with
that.
All
those
in
favor
of
passage.