►
Description
House Education Instruction Committee- February 16, 2022- House Hearing Room 1
A
Good
morning,
this
is
what
day,
wednesday
february
the
16th
and
you
are
in
instruction
full
under
education,
and
we
welcome
you
and
we
have
a
interesting
guest
with
us.
Commissioner
schwinn.
We
thank
you
for
joining
us
so
to
get
started
so
we'll
have
time
with
her.
I
will
ask
for
the
clerks
to
call
roll.
A
Thank
you
very
much
for
that
members.
Does
anyone
have
any
recognitions
or
acknowledgments
to
make
before
we
let's
get
started
all
right,
see
none.
It
has
been
our
tradition
to
start
off
our
committee
with
by
saying
the
pledge
of
allegiance.
So,
if
you
would
care
to
join
us,
welcome.
A
Thank
you
so
much
all
right.
We
will
go
ahead
and
call
up
commissioner,
schwinn
and
and
your
team,
if
you
would
like,
of
course,
you
know
you
have
the
option
to
sit
and
whichever
you
prefer.
A
I'm
going
to
take
us
out
of
session
and
members
and
the
commissioner
they
have
let
she
has.
Let
us
know
she
does
have
a
hard
ending
she's
got
to
get
over
to
the
governor's
office.
I
believe
with
the
meeting.
So
we
have
you
for
about
till.
Would
it
be
11
45?
A
I
said:
okay,
we
will
have
a
commissioner
with
us
and
mr
buffalino,
I
don't
know
if
you're
able
to
stay
after
or
if
you
have
to
go,
also
or
but
anyway,
if
you're
still
sitting
there,
we'll
we'll
just
keep
going.
A
Okay
and-
and
you
know
if
you
will
officially
introduce
yourself-
and
we
thank
you
again
for
coming.
Thank
you.
C
A
Thank
you
alex
so
much,
and
I
don't
know
if
you
want.
If
you
have
an
opening
statement
or
you
want
me
to
just
start
opening
up
for
questions
whatever
you
came
prepared
to
do.
C
Yeah,
so
we
are
happy
to
answer
any
questions
that
you
have
also
just
want
to
take
a
moment
and
celebrate
some
of
the
work
of
our
districts.
We
recently
had
a
big
celebration
last
week
for
the
districts
and
how
they
are
looking
to
spend
their
esser
dollars
and
how
that
relates
to
student
achievement.
Also,
of
course,
the
big
announcement
related
to
teacher
apprenticeships
and
have
been
excited
to
see
that
leadership
from
our
districts
and
educator
preparation
providers
over
the
last
several
weeks.
A
Yes,
always
it's
always
good
news,
all
right
members,
we
will,
if
anyone
has
a
question
that
they
would
like
to
start
off
with
you
will,
let
me
know
I
will
chairman
supiki.
D
C
Sure
so
there
are
three
types
of
education
funding
models
used
by
states.
The
first
is
considered
categorical
funding,
that's
what
happens
with
the
federal
government,
so
you
think
about
your
title.
One
title
two
title
three.
That
means
funding
goes
to
schools
and
schools
and
districts
must
spend
the
money
exactly
how
it
is
prescribed
under
that
title.
Funding
idea
is
an
example
of
that
you
have
to
spend
money
on
students
with
disabilities
under
idea.
C
The
second
is
called
resource-based
funding.
There
are
approximately
nine
states
who
still
use
resource-based
funding,
including
tennessee
in
a
resource-based
funding
model.
What
you're
looking
at
is
identifying
the
resources
that
should
be
funded
and
then
creating
funding
to
match
those
resources.
Sometimes
that
can
be
prescriptive,
meaning
that
you
must
spend
money
in
those
categories.
C
A
student-based
funding
formula
is
funded
at
the
student
level,
so,
unlike
the
bep,
which
is
at
a
district
aggregate
level,
so
you
fund
the
district,
which
then
funnels
money
down
to
schools.
A
student-based
formula
identifies
the
exact
needs
of
individual
students
based
on
the
priorities
set
by
the
state.
Those
individual
needs
are
funded
at
the
student
level
and
then
in
aggregate
is
what
the
dollar
amount,
that
a
district
would
get.
C
The
main
difference
in
terms
of
what
that
can
mean
for
students
is
that
in
a
resource-based
model,
you
work
in
a
lot
of
averages,
and
so
it
doesn't
necessarily
identify,
especially
very
small
groups
of
students
at
schools.
The
other
challenge
that
you
have
in
a
resource-based
model-
and
I
think
that's
why
39
states
have
moved
to
a
student-based
model.
Is
you
just
can't
report
in
the
same
way?
So
when
you
all
ask
questions
such
as,
how
much
do
you
spend
on
this
or
what
goes
into
that?
C
It
is
really
hard
to
identify,
because
we
have
so
many
different
buckets
of
spending
that
happen
at
the
aggregate.
A
very
concrete
example
of
the
difference
in
why
so
many
states
have
moved
to
a
student-based
model.
Is
that
you
might
say
well
how
do
you
fund
this
this
child
with
a
disability?
Well,
it
depends.
It
depends
on
whether
you
have
one
child
in
the
district
or
you
have
10
children
in
the
district
or
you
have
100
children
in
the
district
that
will
change
how
a
district
is
funded
in
a
resource
based
in
a
student
base.
D
And
being
careful
how
to
ask
this
question
in
in
the
potentiality
here
of
what
we're
going
to
hear,
hopefully
soon,
as
a
committee,
do
you
believe
this?
Do
you
have
confidence
that
this
new
funding
formula
will
not
delete
any
program
policy
tests
or
recording
reporting
requirement
of
an
lea.
D
D
C
C
D
See
I'm
easy
today:
do
you
have
any
because
you
kind
of
touched
on
a
little
bit
there?
How
will
this
new
funding
mechanism
allow
our
teachers?
I
know
it's
a
local
decision,
but
do
you
have
maybe
an
example
you
can
give,
because
one
of
the
things
I
hear
from
the
teachers
is
they
need
more
time
not
a
longer
school
day,
but
they
need
to
create
more
time
in
the
day
to
be
able
to
teach
the
kids.
C
Sure
so
I
can
give
an
example
of
what
I've
seen
in
other
states.
So,
if
you've
moved
to
a
student-based
funding
formula,
what
that
allows
typically
is
to
ensure
that
students
who
need
the
resources
and
additional
supports
receive
the
funding
attached
to
them
as
a
result,
because
it's
now
at
the
school
level,
you're
generating
funding
that
can
be
at
the
school
level,
a
school
is
able
to
say
look.
I've
got
20
of
my
students
who
are
economically
disadvantaged
or
I've
got
12
percent
of
students
who
have
disabilities
whatever
that
might
be.
C
I
can
now
make
very
different
types
of
decisions
related
to
the
services
those
students
get
because
the
funding
is
generated
by
the
students
in
the
building,
as
opposed
to
a
systems
level
where
maybe
a
district
is
assigning
resources.
So,
while
I
can't
say
in
any
one
of
the
1800
plus
schools
that
we
have
exactly
what
will
happen,
the
benefit
of
a
student-based
funding
formula
is
that
those
dollars
start
out
in
the
school
in
terms
of
where
the
funding
is
generated,
and
it
does
allow
for
that
local
flexibility
to
create
more
time.
A
B
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
commissioner,
and
thank
you
department
of
ed
gang
for
being
here
today.
I
have
a
few
questions
in.
In
light
of,
you
know
what
we're
proposing
what
the
governor
is
proposing
in
investing
another
one
billion
dollars
into
education.
I
want
to
kind
of
look
at
it
from
a
a
business
perspective
too,
and
to
know
what
this
investment
is
going
to
give
us.
C
So
how
sure?
So
I
I
think-
and
I
want
to
answer-
I
think,
the
spirit
of
the
question
we
are
still
in
the
middle
of
recovering
from
a
pandemic,
and
so
I
think
the
data
that
we
are
seeing
now
coming
out
of
the
last
certainly
of
the
last
spring
demonstrates
that
we
had
some
challenges
and
that
there
is
student
achievement
data
that
is
lower
than
what
we
have
seen
over
the
last
several
years.
C
So
part
of
what
we
expect
to
do
and
we're
seeing
districts
do
every
single
day
is
to
put
in
more
services
and
supports
and
interventions
to
make
sure
that
we
can
recover
as
quickly
as
possible.
We
did
drop
across
grade
bands
and
subject
areas
over
the
last
year
year
and
a
half
as
a
result
of
disruptions
related
to
covet
19..
C
C
There
are
a
number
of
ways
that
we
can
measure
that,
but
when
you
look
at
what's
happened
in
a
state
like
tennessee
versus
other
states
and
the
growth
that
we've
seen,
I
would
say
over
the
last
12
years,
we've
gone
from
the
bottom
five,
and
now
we
are
right
in
the
middle.
I
think
we
are
poised
to
continue
to
accelerate,
and
so
I
would
say
I
feel
very
optimistic
about
what
our
schools
and
districts
will
do
in
the
decade
that
comes
after.
B
C
So
with
act,
I
think
something
I'm
really
proud
of
is
that
we
are
one
of
the
only
states
that
did
not
drop
in
participation
over
over
the
last
couple
of
years.
Most
states
actually
declined
in
participation.
We
have
taken
approximately
a
half
a
point
hit
as
a
result
of
the
last
two
years,
or
so
I
can
get
you
the
state
averages.
I
will
say
that
it
varies
pretty
significantly
district
to
district,
so
we
are
right
below.
I
would
say
what
the
college
readiness
indicator
is.
C
A
B
When
we
speak
of
vendors,
defining
a
vendor
is
our
is,
are
the?
Are
we
looking
at
a
vendor
to
manage
the
new
funding
formula,
or
will
it
be
managed
by
the
department
of
education
so.
C
E
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
thank
you,
commissioner
swin
for
being
here.
Yes,
sir,
first
off,
let
me
start
off
with
this
question.
When
we,
you
were
touring
the
various
communities
throughout
the
state
and
we
were
in
gibson
county
together,
and
I
brought
up
the
issue
that
one
of
our
major
concerns
is
our
reading.
Math
scores,
third
and
eighth
grade
so
forth,
and
I
thought
we
need
to
focus
on
that
and
one
of
the
school
directors
of
challenged
me
on
that
was
saying
the
problems,
not
the
kids,
can't
read.
The
problem
is
the
test.
E
I've
actually
got
legislation
because,
following
that,
I
sought
to
try
to
get
a
copy
of
the
test,
questions
and
look
at
them
and
see
just
how
what
what
how
the
tests
were
being
provided
to
our
students
and
apparently
no
one
can
get
access
to
those
those
test,
questions
unless
they're
old
questions
that
have
been
cycled
out
and
so
forth.
I
finally
did
get
a
copy
and
thank
you
you
and
your
staff
for
for
getting
some
of
that,
and
I
I
have
to
admit
after
I
read
some
of
the
questions
you
know
to
me.
E
I'm
a
lawyer.
I'm
used
to
reading
a
bunch
of
stuff,
but
they
weren't
worded.
As
you
know,
the
worded
the
phraseology
was
kind
of
difficult
to
follow
and
some
of
the
questions
seemed
a
little
disjointed
and
you
know
to
sort
of
put
it
in
a
regular
vernacular
seems
like
maybe
some
of
the
questions
might
have
been
generated
by
some
phd
in
education,
looking
at
some
particular
issue
or
whatever,
rather
than
really
focusing
on
our
third
graders
and
then
our
eighth
graders
actually
to
read
and
comprehend
and
understand.
C
I'm
happy
to,
and
so
I
you
know
there
are
a
few
steps
that
the
states
go
through
in
terms
of
generating
their
state
test,
and
so
in
tennessee
we
have
items
that
are
produced.
Those
are
considered
kind
of
the
early
draft
items.
Those
also
go
through
a
teacher
review
panel,
so
tennessee
teachers
review
the
items
and
make
comments
on
them
and
that's
part
of
our
process.
We
also
go
through
something
called
peer
review.
C
That
means
other
states
review
our
tests
and
determine
whether
or
not
they're
considered
valid,
and
that
is
something
that
we
do
on
a
regular
basis
as
well.
So
there's
a
number
of
checks
and
balances.
On
top
of
that,
we
always
do
what's
called
a
field
test,
so
a
field
test
is
once
it
goes
through.
All
of
those
steps
to
determine
that
this
is
an
item
that
is
ready
to
put
on
an
assessment.
It's
field
tested,
so
it's
given
to
students
before
it
quote,
unquote
counts.
C
In
that
field
test
item,
we
make
sure
that
it
has
the
same
response
or
accuracy
rate
that
we
would
expect
to
see
based
on
student
achievement
and
that's
how
we
test
out
the
item
for
validity
if
it
passes
the
validity
test
after
it's
been
field
tests,
that's
the
only
time
it
can
go
on
an
assessment,
so
there
are
a
number
of
steps
that
go
through
to
make
sure
it's
a
valid
and
reliable
item
before
it
goes
on
our
test
now.
That
being
said,
I
think
it's
always
fair
and
good
feedback.
C
When
we
have
you
know
different
folks
who
are
looking
at
items,
I
also
think
that
it
continues
to
be
something
that
we
review
each
and
every
year.
I'm
very
grateful
and
I'm
very
excited
about
the
work.
That's
been
happening
on
the
assessment
team,
not
just
in
administration
which
we're
really
proud
of,
but
also
thinking
about
how
we
create
really
strong
assessments
in
terms
of
the
content.
C
E
Mention
thank
you.
Let
me
I
appreciate
that
and
I
would
love
to
work
with
you
on
the
legislation
this.
So
I
feel
like
the
legislator,
can
do
their
oversight
regarding
the
testing
and
I
understand,
there's
a
the
need
for
confidentiality.
Let
me
shift
to
this
question.
If
I
may,
please
I
was
just
looking
on
the
internet.
E
New
jersey
spends
an
average
of
21
866
dollars
per
student
connecticut's
teachers
have
an
average
annual
salary
of
seventy
three
thousand
dollars.
You
know
my
question,
this
is,
do
you
and
I
know
you
can't
let
the
cat
out
of
the
bag
or
there
may
not
be
finalized
plans
on
this
revamp
of
the
bep.
E
C
Yeah,
so
that's
a
great
question,
so
I'm
going
to
say
a
couple
of
things
there
one
is:
we
would
be
happy
to
send
you
the
documentation.
There
was
a
request
by
the
steering
committee
to
actually
look
at
every
single
state
where
they
are
ranked
on
the
nape,
which
is
that
apples
to
apple's
assessment
and
then
how
much
they
spend
per
student.
C
C
A
Thank
you
and
members
for
the
members
that
came
in
maybe
a
little
late.
We
have
the
commissioner
for
just
a
few
more
minutes
till
about
11
45,
so
I
appreciate
y'all
being
succinct
and
quick,
so
we
can
get
our
whole
list
and
with
saying
that
representative
parkinson
and
I'm
not
picking
on
you,
but
it's
succinct.
It
just
worked
out
that
way.
You
know
I
love
you.
Thank.
F
You
thank
you,
madam
chair.
It's
amazing
how
your
your
soliloquy
came
right
before
our
house
to
speak
right
right.
I
object
to
all
the
questions
you
asked.
I'm
just
kidding.
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
commissioner,
always
good
to
see
you
and
the
team
always
good
to
see
you.
I
do
just
have
a
couple
of
questions
and
and
and
some
of
them
you
know,
may
be
repetitive.
I
was
trying
to
write
while,
while
you
were
discussing
some
other
things,
but
can
you
can
you
just
tell
me
what
the
the
the
basic
difference?
F
I
think
you
were
saying
this
in
the
last
thing
that
you
spoke
on
before
chairman
said:
look
chairman,
soliloquy,
chairman
supiki,
spoke
and,
and
I
shouldn't
have
called
his
name
because
he
might
get
called
on
again.
But
but
can
you
tell
me
the
difference
between
the
existing
formula
and
this
new
version
that
we're
contemplating
going
to.
C
Sure
so
I'll
say
that
the
resource
base
and
it's
the
46
different
components
of
the
bep
that
all
and
so
an
example
might
be
a
student
ratio.
So
this
student,
or
this
need
generates
an
8.5
to
1
ratio
for
a
student
with
a
disability
based
on
a
category
we're
moving
to
a
format
that
is
student
based,
which
means
you
look
at
the
individual
student
and
you
identify
what
those
students
needs
are
based
on
state
priorities.
C
What
we
heard
from
subcommittees,
just
to
give
you
a
sense
of
what
we
heard
is
economically
disadvantaged
and
concentration
of
poverty,
were
significant
areas
of
feedback
and
focus.
Sparse
and
small
were
significant
areas.
Students
with
disabilities,
english
learners,
characteristics
of
dyslexia
and
gifted
students
were
all
some
of
the
areas
that
we
heard
the
most
about
in
terms
of
what
we
might
want
to
provide
additional
funding
for
that
should
generate
student-specific
services.
C
It
also
means-
and
I
failed
to
say
this
before-
but
as
a
parent,
I
would
be
able
to
see
how
much
money
the
state
is
investing
in
my
child
and
all
three
of
my
children
might
have
different
investments
based
on
their
varied
needs.
That
is
a
level
of
grain
size
that
we
cannot
produce
under
the
bep.
That
is
a
real
benefit
in
transparency
and
accountability
from
the
state's
perspective.
Okay,.
F
And
thank
you
for
that,
and
so,
commissioner.
Under
that
scenario,
you
mentioned
state
priorities.
What
are
the
state
priorities.
C
Well,
we
asked
the
subcommittees,
and
so
it
was
it's
the
ones
that
I
just
mentioned
in
terms
of
where
we
would
want
to
provide
additional
funding.
I
also
think
that
we
heard
some
really
good
feedback
about
things
like
cte,
making
sure
that
we
have
programs
in
high
school
so
that
our
high
school
students
have
access
to
careers
before
they
graduate.
C
We
heard
a
lot
related
to
early
literacy,
as
you
can
imagine,
that's
been
a
priority
in
the
state
making
sure
we
can
invest
in
our
very
young
students
so
that
they
are
reading
on
grade
level
by
third
grade.
Those
bookends
were
things
that
we
heard
a
lot
about
a
couple
of
other
things
that
I
would
mention.
We
heard
a
lot
about
the
ratios
for
counselors
and
school
nurses.
That
was
a
major
component
of
the
feedback
and,
of
course,
we
heard
a
lot
about
teacher
salaries
and
compensation.
C
We
are
right
in
the
middle,
where
we
have
seen
the
biggest
challenge
in
terms
of
the
feedback
from
subcommittees
is
when
you
talk
about
take-home
pay,
so
that's
the
cost
of
insurance
and
benefits
in
retirement
compared
to
other
states.
That
has
been
one
of
the
biggest
difference
between
tennessee
and
some
of
our
regional
peers.
So
we
got
a
lot
of
feedback
about
that.
Okay,.
C
F
One
can
you
given
us
an
example
of
a
student
that
will
receive
the
least
amount
of
funding
versus
a
student
that
received,
which
would
receive
the
most
amount
of
funding
and
and
and
also
from
a
fiscal
standpoint?
Will
this
new
strategy
of
outlay
of
funding
will
it?
Will
it
reduce
the
budgetary
outlay
from
the
state
or
increase
the
budgetary
outlay
from
the
state.
C
Sure
so
I,
in
terms
of
who
gets
the
most
or
the
least,
it
really
is
making
sure
that
what
we
call
the
base.
So
a
formula
is
based
on
a
base.
That
means
the
amount
that
every
student
gets
no
matter
where
they
live.
Then
you
have
weights,
which
are
the
additional
funding
for
the
different
boxes.
You
can
check
and
then
direct
funding
or
things
like
cte
or
early
literacy
act.
C
C
I
will
say
that
those
those
communities
or
those
schools
that
have
high
concentrations
of
students
who
are
economically
disadvantaged,
they
will
likely
have
additional
funding
on
top
of
what
they
already
get
very
candidly.
That
tends
to
benefit
our
rurals
and
our
urban
communities.
The
most
that's
where
we
see
the
most
title:
one
eligible
schools,
okay,.
F
C
Sure
so
the
governor's
currently
proposing
his
proposed
bill
that
that
would
be
250
would
go
into
the
bep
this
year.
125
million
would
be
for
teacher
educator
salaries.
The
rest
would
be
for
bep
adm
growth,
that's
typical.
Every
year,
the
there's
another
750
million
that
he
is
proposing
would
be
recurring
funding,
so
that
would
be
kind
of
the
state
the
state
contribution
into
a
new
formula.
There
are
also
local
considerations.
C
C
That
is
a
shared
foundational
principle
that
that
happens,
but
also
that,
when
we
think
about
that
local
contribution
or
match
that
we're
ensuring
that
we
don't
have
to
raise
taxes,
that's
something
that
I
think
is
really
important
as
a
value
statement
and
so
creating
something
that
allows
for
more
money
to
go
into
schools,
more
accountability
for
those
dollars
and
making
sure
we
control
those
local
costs
that
there
isn't
a
burden
on
local
taxpayers.
I
think
those
are
all
three
really
important
principles.
Thank.
A
Representative
parkinson,
you
get
a
gold
star,
let
it
be
noted.
Thank
you
all
right,
chairman
sapiki,
your
name
was
called
so
to
be
proper.
D
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
representative
parkinson,
right
back
at
you,
so
I'm
gonna
continue
on
here.
Okay,
I'm
gonna
shift
the
little
gears
here,
all
right,
yep
I'll,
be
quick.
So
we
know
the
governor
in
his
proposal,
a
million
dollars
for
cte
for
our
high
schools,
half
a
million
dollars
for
our
our
middle
schools.
We
know
all
of
the
dual
enrollment
courses
we
were
putting
in,
and
access
to
all
that
the
partnerships
we're
getting
with
businesses
coming
into
our
high
schools.
You've
seen
mount
pleasant
high
school.
D
How
are
we
addressing
that
to
make
sure
that,
when
we
do
spend
all
this
money
in
our
middle
schools
and
high
schools
for
all
these
different
pathways
that
when
the
children
get
there,
they
have
the
ability
to
take
advantage
of
all
those
different
options?
How
what
do
we
do
in
pre-exposure
to
all
those
options.
C
Sure-
and
I
think,
a
really
good
and
important
question-
and
the
first
thing
that
I
would
answer
to
that
is
the
literacy
success
act
was
one
of,
and-
and
I
will
say
this
as
a
compliment
to
all
of
you-
that
it
was
one
of
the
boldest
pieces
of
literacy
legislation,
the
country's
seen
in
a
very
long
time,
we've
seen
a
lot
of
states
start
to
copy
that
and
the
programming
that
came
off
of
it.
Our
districts
are
doing
really
incredible,
very
good
work
in
implementing
phonics-based
instruction
in
classrooms
we're
working
closely
with
ed
preps.
C
So
I
think
that
policy
shift
was
significant.
We
had
a
massive
investment
in
early
literacy
frankly
and
also
in
tutoring
through
our
esser
dollars.
So
we
had
most
of
our
sr
funding
frankly
focused
those
one-time
dollars
were
focused
on
our
early
grades,
that
included
reading
360
and
implementing
the
tennessee
literacy
success.
Success
act
that
was
will
likely
be
close
to
150
million
dollars.
Tennessee
all
core
is
another
200
million
dollars.
C
So
you
see
a
real
significant
investment
in
one-time
dollars
there,
the
bookmark
or
other
side
of
that
is
then
what
are
we
doing
for
high
schools?
And
so
this
is
a
proposal
that
would
allow
for
our
high
schools
to
continue
to
create
programs
that
students
can
matriculate
into.
But
I
strongly
agree
with
you
that
we
want
to
make
sure
that
all
of
our
students
can
read
on
grade
level
by
third
grade
and
they're
able
to
be
proficient
in
mathematics.
Both
of
those
things
are
incredibly
important.
C
E
Thank
you,
madam
chairman,
and
again
thank
you
for
being
here.
Yes,
sir
appreciate
the
work,
I
had
the
distinct
honor
to
sit
on
one
of
those
subcommittees.
You
referenced
the
that
went
on
throughout
the
summer.
There
were
some
questions
that
came
from
that.
I
would
like
to
have
you
address
in
difference
to
my
college?
E
I'm
colleagues,
I'm
not
going
to
ask
all
that
I
have
here,
but,
let's
start
off
with
you
mentioned
the
student-based
funding
the
I
sat
on
the
leadership
subcommittee,
things
that
came
up
were
the
number
of
counselors
school
resource
officers,
nurses,
social
workers,
building
repairs,
etc.
E
C
It's
a
really
good
and
important
question,
so
there
are
a
couple
of
ways
that
I
would.
I
would
answer
that
so,
first
and
foremost,
when
you're
looking
at
what
goes
into
a
base-
and
that
is
the
what
every
student
no
matter
where
they
live,
should
should
have
access
to
that
on
the
per
student.
Let's
say
we
take
counselors
and
we
say
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we
have
a
counselor
allocation
within
the
formula
that
matches
national
recommendations
which
is
1
to
250..
C
You
would
take
the
cost
so
to
speak,
of
a
counselor
which
is
their
salary
compensation,
some
materials
they
would
need
desks,
resources.
Things
like
that.
Take
that
full
cost
of
a
counselor
and
divide
that
by
250
students,
so
every
student
would
generate
100,
1
250th
of
the
cost
of
that
counselor
and
that
is
allocated
to
every
student
in
the
state.
Now
you
think
about
schools
that
have
additional
needs,
so
schools
that
might
need
more
social
workers,
schools
that
might
need
more
school
resource
officers
or
whatever.
That
example
is
that's
why
the
weights
are
so
important.
C
The
weights
say:
look
I'm
in
a
school
that
has
a
high
concentration
of
students
with
disabilities,
and
so
we
are
really
going
to
need
additional
supports
for
interventionists
for
instructional
aids
etc,
and
I
am
then
able
to
fund
more
of
those
than
the
base,
because
that
is
what
the
weight
funds.
Similarly,
you
might
have
a
scenario
where
a
group
of
students
within
a
school
need
a
higher
amount
of
contact
time
with
a
social
worker
or
a
nurse,
in
those
cases,
the
weight
for,
let's
say
economically
disadvantaged
or
student
with
disability,
etc.
C
They
would
produce
more
funding
through
the
weights.
That
would
then
create
the
funding
to
purchase
or
have
allocated
for
more
social
workers.
That's
why
the
weights
are
so
important.
They
are
to
allow
the
school
to
afford
to
purchase
the
resources
that
are
needed
to
serve
the
students
in
the
building.
E
Madam
chair
and
again
endeavors
to
my
colleagues,
I
have
only
two
more
questions
but
they're
tough.
Yes,
sir,
in
relation
to
what
you
just
said
on
on
that
you
had
mentioned
earlier
measurement
system,
validity
and
repeatability,
which
of
course,
is
very
important.
The
question
that
ties
to
that
and
to
these
other
things
that
you
just
mentioned
is
a
feedback
mechanism
specifically
tied
to
student
outcome.
C
Yes,
sir,
so
I
also,
I
feel,
really
strongly
about
that,
and
so
what
I
can
say
is
that
I
think
that
you
will
be
pleased
with
the
bill
language
when
it's
released
in
the
coming
week.
A
All
right,
thank
you,
and
on
next
on
the
list
representative,
dixie.
G
Thank
you.
We've
talked
a
lot
about
this
funding
formula,
but
one
thing
I
wanted
to
kind
of
address.
I
don't
think
I've
heard
heard
it
addressed
so
far.
I
think
the
governor's
made
he
made
a
statement
that
we're
going
to
allocate
funds
that
will
go
directly
to
teachers.
G
C
Sure
so
appreciate
that
question.
So
I
think
the
governor
was
saying-
and
I
know
you
all
put
money
aside
and
have
traditionally
put
money
aside
every
year
that
says
we
are
going
to
put
x
number
of
dollars
into
the
instructional
component
of
the
bep.
Sometimes
that
goes
to
teacher
salaries.
Other
times
I
heard
a
great
example
from
a
superintendent.
Just
yesterday
who
said
look
because
of
class
size
ratios,
we
might
even,
though
we
have
60
students
in
a
grade,
because
we
have
20
in
one
school
and
19
in
another
and
21
in
another.
C
We
actually
have
to
purchase
four
teachers.
So
that's
why
we
have
to
hire
more
staff,
so
there's
lots
of
local
context
there.
That
being
said,
what
the
new
formula
would
allow
is,
it
would
be
able
to
say.
Similarly,
you
reserve
a
certain
amount
of
additional
funding.
So
let's
say
in
the
case
of
using
the
same
numbers
this
year,
125
million
dollars.
You
want
to
make
sure
that
that
actually
goes
to
teacher
increases,
as
opposed
to
instruction
in
general.
The
new
bill
will
provide
a
mechanism
for
you
all
to
designate
that
that
funding
must
be
used.
C
G
That
that
kind
of
leads
me
to
my
next
question
is
we're
talking
about
the
bp,
and
I
think
you
just
just
hit
on
it
about
how
sometimes
that
outside
the
bep
formula,
there's
teachers
that
aren't
funded
through
this
will
that
be
the
case
for
those
will
it
be
teachers
outside
this
particular
formula?
Will
that
be
the
case
for
them.
C
No-
and
I
think
this
is
going
to
be
a
really
important
distinction
between
a
resource
base
and
a
student
base,
so
in
a
resource-based
formula
it
generates
an
appropriate
number
of
teachers
quote
unquote.
So
it
says,
because
you
have
this
many
students-
and
this
is
the
ratio.
This
is
how
many
teachers,
the
formula
funds
in
a
student-based
formula,
it
does
not
have.
We
aren't
going
to
have
bep-funded
teachers.
C
There
are
just
dollars
going
to
schools,
and
then
we
will
say
you
have
class
size
restrictions
just
like
we
do
now,
20
to
1
in
elementary
etc,
and
it
is
a
local
decision
in
terms
of
how
you
want
to
allocate
your
staffing,
you
might
need
to
put
more
teachers
in
an
elementary
school
because
of
the
population
that
you
have
or
wanting
to
lower
class
sizes.
You
may
suggest
that
you
need
to
the
question
earlier
more
social
workers
or
counselors
librarians.
C
Those
are
all
decisions
that
can
be
made
at
the
local
level,
so
there
are
no
more
kind
of
tesa
funded
teachers
or
bep
funded
teachers.
It
is
actually
just
teachers,
and
so
if
districts
or
local
communities
want
to
provide
additional
funding
on
top
of
a
formula,
they
would
still
be
allowed
to
do
that.
There
would
be
no
restriction
on
additional
funding.
G
It
sounds
good
in
theory,
but
what
happens
is
let's
say
if
every
school
they
need
the
maximum
amount
of
teachers,
there's
only
so
much
money
to
go
around
some
something
has
to
give,
and
you
know
we
don't
have
an
unlimited
budget
for
education,
and
so
I
think
that
it's
like,
if
every
lea
put
this
wish
list
of
what
they
had
with
all
the
students
that
they
have
that's
coming
in
something
something's
not
going
to
make
it.
You
know.
G
I
just
want
to
know
that
if
that
is
the
case,
where
the
cuts
going
to
be
made,
how
is
it
going
to
be
funded?
How
is
this
going
to
not
end?
How
are
schools,
you
know,
go
down
to
the
actual
school
level,
how
they're
not
going
to
be
put
in
the
position
of
where
they
have
to
scramble
now
to
make
decisions
on
who's
funded,
how
to
make
sure
they
get
to
cover
those
kids.
I
mean
the
teachers
in
these
classrooms
and
I
just
I
think,
there's
a
little
disconnect
there.
C
So
I
think
I'd
probably
need
to
understand
the
question
more
we're
proposing
to
put
in
a
billion
more
dollars.
So
I
can't
imagine
there
would
be
a
scenario
where
you
would
have
to
cut
in
in
that
case,
so
anything
that
is
funded
now
would
carry
over
into
a
new
formula.
So
this
is
on
top
of
what
is
currently
being
funded
in
k-12
public
education
in
tennessee.
So
you
would
have
our
current
bep
amount,
plus
the
additional
proposal
of
250
this
year
and
750.
C
If
the
formula
is
proposed
and
we
still
have
districts
who
have
maintenance
of
effort,
which
means
those
districts
who
put
more
on
top
of
their
required
contribution,
they
would
still
have
that.
So
I
I
can't
imagine
that
that
would
result
in
any
kind
of
of
cuts
in
any
way,
given
that
it's
just
additional
funding
for
schools.
G
C
I
think
that
is
a
really
important
question
for
you
all
to
discuss
with
general
assembly
members.
I
will
say
as
a
commissioner.
I
am
thrilled
that
a
number
that
high
is
being
proposed
by
governor
lee
and
I
am
excited
to
be
able
to
ensure
there's
strong
accountability
for
how
those
dollars
are
spent.
But
when
I
talk
to
superintendents
and
teachers
in
districts,
this
is
a
big
deal
for
k-12
public
schools.
C
A
Okay,
representative
warner
you're
next.
F
C
Yes,
sir,
so
what
you
can
expect
is
at
the
district
level,
the
district
will
receive
here's
what
you
would
have
received
under
the
bep
here's,
what
you
would
receive
under
a
new
formula:
here's
what
that
means
for
all
of
your
local
contributions.
So
you
will.
They
will
have
all
of
that
information
in
real
time.
We
will
do
the
same
thing
for
county
commissioners
and
we
will
do
the
same
thing
for
all
of
you
for
the
districts
within
your
district,
so
all
of
that
information
will
be
available
as
soon
as
the
bill's
released.
Thank
you.
F
Real
quick
yeah,
as
you
know,
rutherford
county
has
grown
one
of
the
fast
growing
areas
of
the
state.
I
know
my
mayor
bill,
ketron
mayor
of
the
chairman
of
the
school
board,
tiffany
johnson,
just
texted
me,
you
know:
how
are
we
going
to
try
to
address
these
fast
growing
counties
and
another
issue
of
mine
has
been
more
counselors,
more
social
workers
and
and
the
late
dr
linda
gilbert,
that
that
you
knew
a
lot
of
folks
knew
she
passed
away
after
our
opioid
town
hall
meeting
and
she
said
mike.
F
That's
a
critical
area,
the
mental
health
of
the
six
to
nine
year
olds,
it's
off
the
chart-
and
I
think
everyone
agrees.
What
worries
me
is
like
the
chairman
from
murray
county
mentioned
last
week
about
this
reading
level
on
the
third
grade,
and
I
don't
want
to
talk
about
texas
and
the
pipeline,
all
that,
but
y'all
get
it
y'all
understand
that
the
chairman
gets
it
and
I
appreciate
it.
But
how
are
we
addressing?
F
I
know
you
hit
some
of
that,
but
the
fast
growing
counties
and
that
funding
formula
for
getting
more
of
them
the
social
workers
and
counselors
in
there.
Thank
you.
Yes,.
C
Sir,
so
for
fast
growing,
that
is
something
that
we
had
a
specific
subcommittee
that
looked
at
to
make
sure
that
they
were
looking
at
it
and
then
certainly
talk
to
a
number
of
folks
who
this
is
really
important.
There
are
two
different
components
or
philosophies
about
fast
growing.
One
is
about
making
sure
that
if
you
have
a
large
number
of
students,
year
to
year,
increased
that
you're
getting
same
year
funding
for
those
students-
that's
really
important
because
you
have
the
costs
that
year
for
those
students,
you
need
the
funding
that
year.
C
C
That
is
a
different
level
of
cost
and
expense,
and
so
there
is
some
additional
infrastructure
consideration,
not
just
the
per
student,
but
the
one-time
costs
of
changing
bus
routes,
purchasing
more
buses,
the
staff
that
goes
with
it,
the
portables
building,
a
new
building
both
of
those
are
considered
in
terms
of
how
we're
thinking
about
the
new
formula
and
then
on
the
on
the
counselors
and
social
workers.
I
do
want
to
just
say
if
I
can
point
of
privilege,
thank
you
for
continuing
to
bring
dr
gilbert
into
the
conversation.
C
I
think
she
is
one
of
the
most
important
people
I've
met
in
this
job
in
my
career.
So
thank
you
for
that.
I
think
she
would
be
pleased
and
I
hope
she
would
be
pleased
in
terms
of
the
counselors
and
social
workers,
how
we're
thinking
about
those
ratios
in
terms
of
increases
to
the
base.
It
was
one
of
the
top
three
things
that
we
heard
across
all
subcommittees
and
continues
to
be
a
priority
in
terms
of
what
is
necessary
for
students.
So
thank
you
for
that.
Yes,
sir,.
B
This
is
a
little
off
course.
It's
it's
not
about
funding,
but
we
push
for
in-person
learning,
because
we
know
that
that's
the
best
for
our
students,
our
struggling
students,
but
when
it
comes
to
tutoring,
are
we
going
to
require
that
tutoring
be
conducted
in
person
or
virtual.
C
That's
a
great
question,
so
if
it's
tennessee
all
core,
which
is
the
tutoring
that's
reflected
in
in
the
bills
from
special
session-
that's
in-person
tutoring.
We
also
know
that
some
of
our
districts
in
relation
to
their
esser
or
federal
relief
funding
have
also
offered
online
or
virtual
tutoring.
That
is,
that
is
outside
of
kind
of
the
state
program.
But
it
is
something
that
we
know
some
of
our
districts
are
using
in
terms
of
high
school
for
high
school.
C
What
we've
seen
in
the
data,
especially
over
the
last
five
years,
is
that
online
or
virtual
tutoring
tends
to
be
beneficial
for
high
schoolers,
because
they
have
band
and
sports
and
choir
and
everything
after
school.
They
are
less
likely
to
attend
an
after-school
tutoring
program,
but
they
are
likely
to
to
do
some
online
tutoring
that
can
that
can
happen
with
their
peers.
B
A
A
More
all
right
represented
a
chair,
lady
weaver.
Oh
did
you
okay.
I
can
wait
too,
okay.
Well,
okay.
Everybody
said
they
can
wait.
Wait.
Excuse
me
chairman's
a
picky.
D
You
may
not
know
your
schedule,
I
think
in
our
subcommittee.
We
don't
have
many
bills
coming
forward
next
week.
Like
a
couple,
I'm
sure
this
is
pretty
pretty
good
conversation
we're
having
right
now.
Could
you
check
your
schedule
and
see
if
you
can
be
back
next
week
and
we
can
continue
on
where
we
are.
A
C
With
your
your
office
ma'am
and
then
if
anyone
needs
additional,
if
there
are
questions
that
we
didn't
get
to
today,
please
just
let
me
know
and
I'm
happy
to
visit
your
offices
and
answer
those.
Yes,
yes,.
A
Thank
you,
I'm
sorry,
and,
and
we
do
appreciate
you
taking
the
time
and
the
busy
schedule
and
and
I'm
sorry,
we
maybe
another
time
we'll
have
more
questions
for
the
rest
of
your
staff
too.
I
appreciate
them
coming
it's
good
to
put
faces
names
with
faces,
they're,
wonderful,
and
we
appreciate
the
work
you're
doing,
thank
you,
man
and
and
being
patient
with
us
as
we
come
up
with
more
questions
and
as
more
is
revealed-
and
I
appreciate
your
time-
yes
ma'am.
Thank
you
very
much
for
being
with
us.
So
thank
you.