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Description
House Health Committee- March 9, 2022- House Hearing Room 1
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C
A
Right,
thank
you
and
before
we
get
to
the
calendar
today,
do
any
of
the
members
have
any
personal
orders
all
right.
Seeing
none
from
the
members
I
would
like
to
mention
today
is
tennessee
and
tennessee
association
of
nurse
anesthetist
day
on
the
hill,
and
we
have
some,
I
think,
some
crnas
and
student
nurse
nesters
in
the
in
the
audience.
So
if
you
would
welcome
them,.
A
All
right
we
have
a
pretty
robust
calendar,
so
we
will
go
to
item
number.
One
house
build
two
six,
six,
seven
chairman
vaughn,
you
are
recognized.
D
Take
the
take
the
convenient
way
out
and
sit
here
and
to
present
this
bill
folks,
this
bill
is
brought
by
the
tennessee
hospital
association
to
address
their
staffing
crisis,
we're
hearing
about
it
every
day.
We
know
that
it's
real,
we
we
hear
anecdotal
evidence
of
it,
and
so
what
this
bill
proposes
to
do
is
to
allow
the
commissioner
to
declare
commissioner
of
health
to
declare
a
state
of
emergency
for
staffing.
But
first
I
have
an
amendment
that
rewrites
the
bill.
Mr
chairman,
okay,
amendment.
A
D
This
amendment
incorporates
is
clarifications
to
the
original
bill.
That's
been
brought
to
us
by
the
department
of
health,
the
didd
and
the
tennessee
healthcare
association
who
is
senior
living
folks,
so
they've
they've
added
some
commentary
and
some
amendments
to
it
that
that
we
consider
to
be
friendly.
D
But
going
back
to
the
the
purpose
of
the
bill
is
there's
a
lot.
The
commissioners
allowed
to
declare
a
health
care
emergency
healthcare,
staffing
emergency
and
what
that
would
trigger
would
be
the
ability
to
allow
healthcare
professionals
licensed
in
another
state
to
temporarily
practice
here.
D
In
accordance
with
our
scope
of
practice
rules,
it
would
allow
for
light
licensed
professionals
to
temporarily
practice
outside
their
scope
within
a
hospital
setting,
allows
student
nurses
to
participate
under
direct
supervision
and
also
allows
the
commissioner
health
to
temporarily
suspend
rules
for
health
care
facilities
with
regards
to
directives
called
for
by
cms,
and
the
commissioner
can
place
geographic
and
time
limits
on
each
of
these
and
the
health
care
emergency
requires
the
commissioner
to
notify
not
only
the
governor
but
also
the
speaker
of
the
house
and
the
lieutenant
governor,
and
with
that
I'll
answer,
any
questions
folks
may
have.
A
A
Question's
been
called
on
the
bill
without
objection,
we
are
voting
on
house
bill
2667,
all
those
in
favor
say
aye
opposed
eyes.
Have
it
bill
goes
on
to
government
operations?
Thank
you.
I
have
spoken
with
the
sponsor
of
the
next
build.
We
do
have
a
pretty
robust
calendar
here,
and
this
bill
has
some
testimony
on
that.
A
So,
in
order
to
go
through
our
calendar,
we
are
going
to
roll
house
bill
1871
to
the
hill
of
this
calendar
and
with
the
we
will
get,
we
will
get
to
this
bill.
A
A
C
Thank
you,
chairman
and
committee.
This
legislation
adds
smokeless
nicotine
products
to
the
list
of
products
for
the
age,
21,
prohibition
under
the
prevention
of
youth,
access
to
tobacco,
smoking,
hemp
and
vapor
products
under
the
trump
administration
and
the
amendment.
What
it
does
is
with
the
adoption
it
from
the
department
of
health,
the
definition
of
smokeless
nicotine
products
will
not
include
nicotine
replacement
therapy
products.
These
products
will
remain
available,
two
persons
18
and
up
used
to
treat
tobacco
use
disorders
and
with
mr
chairman,
I
move
passage.
A
Any
questions
for
the
sponsor
of
the
bill:
okay,
saying
none.
We
are
voting
on
house
bill,
2058,
all
those
in
favor
say
aye
aye
opposed
eyes.
Have
it
bill
goes
on
to
calendar
and
rules.
Thank
you.
That
brings
us.
Thank
you.
That
brings
us
to
item
number
four
house
bill.
1686,
chairman
williams,
you're
recognized.
You
have
a
motion.
E
Second,
thank
you
chairman
and
members.
I
do
have
an
amendment.
I
know
the
members
may
have
forgotten,
but
I
haven't
that
I
tried
to
move
this
bill
last
week
for
about
12
minutes
before
people
reminded
me
that
we
were
rolling
it
for
a
week,
but
did
we
adopt
that
amendment
last
week
we
did
not
okay,
so
the
amendment
drafting
code
zero
one
three,
eight,
eight
four
and
it
rewrites
the
bill.
Okay,
now.
A
You
have
motion
a
second
without
objection.
Let's
get
that
on
the
bill.
All
those
in
favor
say
aye
opposed
eyes
have
it.
We
are
back
on
the
bill
as
amended.
You're
recognized.
E
As
many
of
the
body
may
know,
my
grandmother
passed
away
from
alzheimer's
several
years
ago,
after
an
eight
and
a
half
year
battle.
What
this
bill
would
do
is
much
like
my
aunts
didn't
have.
It
would
allow
for
three
to
four
hours
a
week
for
150
families
across
the
state,
in
the
three
grand
divisions
to
allow
for
respite
care
so
that
they
could
care
for
their
own
selves
and
families.
E
While
and
this
program,
this
pilot
program
would
work
a
lot
like
the
choices
program
that
we
currently
have
with
the
idea
that,
if,
with
this
kind
of
respite
care,
these
loved
ones
could
care
for
their
family
members
in
their
homes
for
a
longer
period
of
times,
which
would
keep
them
out
of
a
long-term
facilities
which
cost
dramatically
more
than
someone
staying
at
their
home.
E
This
bill
is
actually
named
after
colonel
thomas
g
bowden,
his
wife,
and
it
looks
like
one
of
her
daughters
are
here
today
in
the
audience
his
wife
is
here.
I
got
the
no
it's
not
his
daughter,
but
they
do
have
a
couple
daughters,
but
anyways.
This
bill
was
here
to
recognize
him.
He
served
our
nation
in
the
military
and
most
recently
passed
from
alzheimer's.
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions
that
the
members
have
this
bill
as
amended.
E
A
Thank
you
chairman.
What's
in
your
recognizer.
B
B
We
have
folks
suffering
from
alzheimer's,
but
also
the
family
members
pay
a
heavy
price
and
it
was
really
tough
on
my
dad
and
that's
why
this
bill
is
so
important,
but
also
would
also
like
to
recognize
barbara
bowden
in
our
audience,
as
chairman
williams
did,
and
just
a
little
bit
about
her
service
and
her
husband's
service
to
the
army.
Colonel
tom
bowden,
from
tellahoma
tennessee
graduated
from
mtsu
in
1972,
was
commissioned
in
the
artillery
court.
B
F
A
G
It
corrects
the
term
or
eliminates
the
term
condition
of
participation
that
imposes
a
because
this
phrase
in
the
cms
regulations
applies
to
hospitals
only
and
because
of
the
late
night
hour.
At
that
time
it
got
included
in
the
physician
part
also-
and
this
is
to
streamline
things
and
avoid
confusion
in
the
code,
and
for
that
reason
these
words
are
deleted.
A
A
G
G
And
it
lists
the
satisfactory
completion
of
the
program
that
the
program
is
an
approved
program
for
the
purpose
of
training
these
graduates.
A
G
Hospital
2857
relates
to
the
central
service
technicians.
These
are
technicians
in
a
hospital
and
other
facility
setting
they
base
clean,
prepare
and
sterilize
instruments
and
process
them
so
that
they
are
in
good
functioning
order.
It's
a
skilled
technical
job,
and
this
bill
requires
that
these
technicians
shall
practice
central
service
work
if
they
have
successfully
passed
a
nationally
accredited
central
service
exam,
a
certified
registered
central
service,
technician,
credential
and
a
sterile
processing
and
distribution
technician.
G
A
Right,
I
think
there
is
an
amendment
that
we
have,
that
we
would
that
adds
to
the
bill
amendment
zero
one,
three,
eight,
four,
seven.
Is
that
correct
that.
A
You
have
a
motion,
second,
on
that.
I
think
you
explained
that
so
without
objection.
Let's
vote
on
that
amendment,
all
those
in
favor
say
aye.
B
A
Opposed
eyes,
have
it
we're
back
on
the
bills,
amen,
amended
any
questions
for
the
sponsor
of
the
bill,
seeing
none.
We
are
voting
on
house
bill
2857,
all
those
in
favor
say
aye
opposed
eyes.
Have
it
bill
goes
on
to
counter
rules?
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
That
brings
us
to
item
number
eight
house
bill.
1903,
representative
alexander
you're,
recognized.
You
have
motion
a
second
there's
amendment
that
rewrites
the
bill
zero
one,
four
one,
five
two
is
that
correct.
That
is
correct.
I
need
a
motion.
A
You
have
a
motion,
a
second,
let's
get
that
on
the
bill
proper
form.
So
without
objection,
let's
vote
on
the
amendment,
all
those
in
favor
say:
aye
aye
opposed
eyes.
Have
it
we're
back
on
the
bills
amended.
You
are
recognized.
Thank.
H
You
chairman,
thank
you
committee
with
the
adoption
of
amendment
one.
This
legislation
is
intended
to
clarify
that
continuing
education
courses
taken
by
dental
hygienists
that
are
conducted
via
live
interactive
webinar
are
to
be
considered
at
an
in-person
event.
Dental
hygienists
are
only
allowed
to
receive
one
half
of
the
required
30
hours
of
ce
via
online
or
web-based
courses.
This
legislation
is
intended
to
allow
interactive
web-based
courses
to
count
as
an
in-person
event.
An
interactive
webinar
would
be
one
conducted
via
zoom
or
teams
where
the
instructor
can
interact
via
voice
or
chat
with
hygienist.
H
The
dennis
association,
as
well
as
a
dental
hygienist.
Both
approve
this
bill.
C
I
just
I'd
like
to
thank
the
sponsor
for
this
bill.
This
is
a
very
efficient
for
the
use
of
time.
Over
the
pandemic,
several
states
had
waived
issues
with
continuing
education,
and
so
it
turned
out
that
that
online
education
turned
out
not
to
be
face
to
face,
and
so
that
caused
some
people,
some
real
issues.
So
I
appreciate
you
bringing
this
bill,
so
it's
very
good
help
and
probably
will
be
used
in
some
of
the
other
professions
right.
Thank
you
very
much.
A
H
H
A
H
A
That
brings
us
to
item
number
nine
house
bill
1917
by
chairman
whitson.
You
are
recognized,
you
have
a
motion.
Second,
thank
you.
A
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman
house,
bill
1917,
gives
licensed
behavioral
analysis
out.
Analysts
excuse
me
the
authority
to
administer
behavioral
skills
within
the
scope
of
practice
of
applied
behavioral
analysis.
The
results
of
these
scales
must
be
used
only
to
guide
treatment
and
monitor
progress
of
treatment.
Results
may
not
be
interpreted
for
a
diagnosis
with
that.
Mr
chairman,
I
renew
my
motion.
A
Any
questions
for
the
sponsor
of
the
bill,
seeing
none,
we
are
voting
on
house
bill
1917
as
amended.
All
those
in
favor
say:
aye
opposed
eyes.
Have
it
the
bill
goes
on
to
calendar
and
rules.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman
and
committee.
Thank
you
and
I
appreciate
the
indulgence
of
the
committee
and
the
sponsor
of
item
number
two.
That
brings
us
to
the
hill
of
the
calendar.
We
are
on
house
bill
1871
by
chairman
hulsey.
You
are
recognized.
C
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
committee.
This
bill
has
an
amendment
on
it
if
her
amendment
proposed
to
it.
If
you
want
to
put
that
on
the
bill
before
we
go
further.
A
There
are
two
amendments
that
are
presented
or
that
were
filed
by
a
member
of
this
committee
and,
if
they're
a
friendly
amendment,
we
can
do
that
now.
That
would
be.
That
would
be
a
proper
thing
for
us
to
do,
which
amendment
do
you
have
that
you
would
like
us
to
consider.
A
G
You,
mr,
I
really
want
to
thank
chairman
hulsey
for
us
to
work
together.
I
think
that
makes
things
better
and
he's
been
most
generous
about
it.
The
bill
in
context,
basically,
as
that
natural
immunity
be
recognized
as
a
legitimate
form
of
defense
that
the
body
has,
and
it
is
an
effective
way
for
the
body
to
resist
infections.
A
C
C
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
the
bill's
pretty
straightforward.
It
says
that
natural
immunity
is
as
good
or
better
than
the
cobra
19
shot
and
that's
the
whole
substance
of
the
bill
and
that's
what
it
says
and
with
your
indulgence
chairman,
I
have
three
doctors
here
who
would
like
to
briefly
speak
to
this
issue.
A
Thank
you
for
coming
today.
If
you
can,
please
just
tell
us
who
you
are
and
who
you're
with
and
for
the
panel
we'd
ask
that
you
keep
your
comments
to
three
minutes,
and
then
there
may
be
questions
from
the
panel
or
from
the
committee.
I
A
I
Thank
you,
mr
chairman
and
representatives.
My
name
is
dr
denise
sibley.
I'm
an
internal
medicine
board
certified
physician
from
johnson
city.
I've
treated
over
4
400
patients
for
covet
over
the
last
23
months.
I've
done
so
without
any
financial
benefit,
and
I
come
here
without
any
financial
conflicts
of
interest
or
any
conflicts
of
interest.
I
work
for
myself.
I
This
was
even
recognized
before
germ
theory
back
in
the
1300s
when
the
black
plague
came
through,
they
were
the
people
that
had
recovered
from
the
black
plague
were
allowed
to
carry
out
the
bottles
bodies
of
those
who
had
recently
passed
away.
So
they
even
recognized
back
then
that
once
you
had
the
disease,
you
were
immune
suddenly
in
in
this
covet
era
that
changed
so
that
the
definition
of
immunity
was
changed.
To
only
include
a
vaccination.
I
I
will
also
say
that
for
myself
and
other
people
who
are
covered
recovered
to
mandate,
a
vaccine
is
to
experience
adverse
increased
adverse
events.
That
is,
if
I
was
required
to
get
a
vaccine,
I
would
have
a
two
to
four
times
chance
of
increasing
my
risk
of
an
adverse
event,
and
I
will
introduce
you
to
my
friend
nikki,
who
did
not
have
covid,
but
she
did
experience
an
adverse
event
from
a
vaccine
in
her
primary
series,
and
I
would
be
experiencing
two
to
four
times
that
risk
this
is
real,
and
this
happens.
I
J
Let's
see
if
I've
got
the
mic
working,
my
name
is
dr
robert
malone.
I'm
a
maryland
licensed
physician,
I'm
also
a
scientist.
I'm
here
representing
the
international
association
of
physicians
and
medical
scientists,
which
is
over
17
thousand
physicians
and
scientists
I
serve
as
the
president.
I
also
serve
as
the
chief
medical
and
regulatory
officer
for
the
unity
project
based
out
of
california
we're
an
association
of
many
many
other
organizations
that
are
opposed
to
vaccine
mandates,
particularly
for
children.
I
also
happen
to
be
the
person
who
originally
invented
the
mrna
vaccine
technology
between
1987
and
1989.
J
I
support
that
assertion
by
the
basis
of
nine
issued,
u.s
domestic
patents
and
many
international
patents.
I
have
over
30
years
of
experience
as
a
vaccine
developer.
I
work
closely
with
the
federal
government,
particularly
the
department
of
defense,
but
often
sit
on,
study
sections
or
chair
study
sections
for
the
nih
and
niad.
I'm
particularly
noted
as
an
expert
in
biodefense
and
have
either
won
or
managed
over
8
billion
dollars
in
federal
grants
and
contracts.
J
J
Perhaps
I
prefer
the
term
acquired
immunity
after
infection.
What
you
elicit
is
a
mucosal
immune
response,
because
that's
how
you
experience
the
virus
as
opposed
to
the
parenteral
immune
response,
that's
generated
from
the
vaccine
and
the
immune
response
is
broad-based.
It's
against
multiple
different
proteins,
and
so
it
provides
much
more
robust
immunity,
as
measured
in
the
field,
and
dr
cole
will
speak
to
this.
J
The
second
point
I
wish
to
make
is,
as
somebody
who's
been
traveling
quite
a
bit
throughout
this
outbreak,
I'm
very
familiar
with
the
policies
in
the
european
union
in
which
acquired
or
natural
immunity
is
widely
recognized
in
the
european
union
green
card
system
as
equivalent
in
providing
protection
for
all
of
the
various
requirements
for
access
to
state
buildings,
restaurants,
etc.
Although
it's
of
interest
that
in
the
european
union,
except
for
italy,
all
of
those
passport
requirements
are
being
dropped
about
the
middle
of
this
month.
J
Third
part
natural
immunity
versus
acquired
or
recovered.
I
just
wanted
to
mention
those
terms
are
somewhat
they're
interchangeable.
It's
the
common
language!
That's
developed
this
idea
of
natural
immunity,
but
more
precisely,
it's
really
the
acquired
immunity,
as
opposed
to
the
term.
We
usually
use
as
innate
immune
response.
That's
the
immunity
that
your
body
naturally
has,
even
if
they
haven't
experienced
the
virus
before
so
technically,
I
I
prefer
acquired
immunity
rather
than
natural
immunity,
but
that's
a
small
tick.
J
We
are
aware,
unfortunately,
that
with
the
vaccines,
the
antibody
response.
A
Okay,
we
can
get
to
you
in
the
questions.
We
have
one
more
person
here
to
testify.
You
are
recognized.
F
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
I'm
dr
ryan
cole,
I'm
an
md,
I'm
a
physician,
mayo
clinic
trained
anatomic
clinical
pathology,
sub-specialty
fellowship
in
dermatology.
I
do
molecular
biology.
I've
done
over
150
000
cova
tests
in
my
laboratory.
F
F
Thank
you
just
so
you
know
I
am
who
I
am
natural
immunity
to
both
dr
sibley
and
dr
malone's
point
is
that
we
have
always
recognized
it
in
medicine
until
these
last
two
years,
just
in
the
last
week,
dr
wolinski
of
the
cdc
has
finally
started
soft
pedaling
and
saying
hey
yeah
natural
immunity,
covert
acquired
immunity
is
real.
That
was
in
a
grand
round
she
gave
at
washington
university
st
louis
last
week.
F
We
know
that
a
vaccine
immunity
does
not
equal
a
code
recovered
immunity
for
the
point
that
dr
malone
just
brought
out
that
there
are
many
proteins
on
the
virus
that
a
vaccine
only
covers
one
coveted,
recovered
acquired
immunity
covers
all
of
those.
We
know
sarge
kovi
won
for
18
years
and
running
now.
Those
individuals
who
had
sars
kobe
1
are
still
immune
to
source,
cov1
and
interestingly
cross
immune
to
sarge
kobe
2
as
well.
So
people
worry
about.
Is
this
long,
durable?
F
Absolutely
an
acquired
natural
immunity
is
long
and
durable.
Studies
from
those
individuals
who
had
coveted
early
in
the
pandemic
in
in
italy
and
northern
italy
still
have
immunity
and
based
on
our
studies
with
sarsko
v1
that
should
extend
on
out
in
perpetuity
for
what
we
know
at
this
point.
Interestingly,
you
know
if
you
get
a
shot,
you
don't
make
the
little
antibody
mops
in
your
tears,
your
nose.
F
F
Don't
have
the
ability,
because
they
don't
have
these
little
iga
secretory
mops
in
their
tears,
the
nose
and
throat
and
that's
why
we've
seen
a
lot
of
those
who've
gotten
one
two
three
shots
still
get
covered
because
they
don't
develop
a
full
broad
immunity
like
a
natural
infection.
Does
so
that's
a
very
important
just
pathophysiological
factoid,
so
basically
your
chance
of
getting
a
covet
and
spreading
code
according
to
the
cdc
and
their
data
when
they
were
inquired
how
many
people
have
been
shown
to
have
coveted
and
spread
it
to
anyone
else?
F
A
All
right,
thank
you.
I
appreciate
that
and
we
have
some
members
here
that
may
have
some
questions.
I
will
ask
the
first
question
and
it's
to
dr
malone.
You
ran
out
of
time
I'd
like
to
hear
your
fourth
point.
J
The
point
has
to
do
with
the
durability,
which
is
a
key
issue,
and
we
know
that
waning
immunity
has
been
a
major
problem
with
the
vaccines,
no
matter
how
many
boosters
you
receive
and
as
dr
cole
has
just
testified,
the
data
are
very
clear
that
the
acquired
adaptive
immunity
lasts
for
considerably
longer
than
the
60
days
associated
with
the
vaccine-acquired
immunity.
I'd
also
like
to
emphasize
that
one
needs
to
be
cautious.
J
There
is
no
evidence
that
neutralizing,
antibodies
or
antibody
titers
are
actually
an
accurate
predictor
of
protection.
That
seems
to
be
a
misunderstanding
among
many
folks.
The
only
measure
that
we
have
right
now
in
a
regulatory
standpoint
and
that's
one
of
my
core
competencies-
is
actual
measured
immunity
in
the
terms
of
the
patient
not
being
susceptible
to
infection.
J
So
at
this
point
in
time
the
fact
that
antibodies
may
wane,
with
one
of
the
other
vaccine
or
acquired
immunity,
is
essentially
moot
because
it
is
not
predictive
of
protection.
Historically,
with
respiratory
viruses,
the
protection
is
afforded
by
t
cells
not
antibodies
over.
A
All
right,
thank
you
appreciate
that
leader
gant.
You
are
recognized.
C
Thank
you
chairman,
and
thank
you
all
for
being
here
today
and
I'm
not
sure
who
wants
to
take
this
question.
I've
got
a
few
questions.
If
you
could
allow
me
to
chairman
you're
right,
is
it
your
professional
opinion
that
the
acquired
natural
immunity
is
it
more
effective
than
the
vaccines
that
are
on
the
market
now
and
and
if
so,
why.
F
Thank
you,
mr
chair,
and
thank
you
for
that
question.
Yes,
if
we
look
at
the
studies
out
of
israel
and
out
of
qatar,
they
clearly
indicate
that
a
coveted,
recovered
immunity
is
much
stronger
than
a
vaccinal
immunity
in
the
early
israel
studies-
and
this
was
on
hundreds
of
thousands
of
patients.
It
was
about
13
times
stronger
to
have
a
covert
recovered
immunity,
and
the
qatar
study
was
almost
approaching
30
times
stronger.
F
Well,
that's
the
challenge.
With
these
vaccines,
we've
seen
the
number
of
cases
acquired
and
those
who've
gotten
a
shot
and
still
gotten
covered
so
early
on.
It
was
thought
that
they
would
be
long
lasting
when
we
found
on
average.
It
was
only
a
few
months
and
then
waning
at
that,
and
with
omicron
we've
seen
that
those
who
have
had
a
shot
or
had
a
booster
actually
have
a
higher
chance
of
acquiring
omicron
than
those
who
who
didn't
so.
F
J
If
I
could,
if
I
could
augment
that,
sir,
in
the
latest
data
from
albany
board
of
health,
that's
received
quite
a
bit
of
press
and
attention.
We
see
evidence
of
the
pediatric
population
of
lack
of
protection
for
as
little
as
short
a
period
as
30
days,
so
very
short
duration,
or
we
call
it
durability
of
protection
associated
with
the
vaccines
in
key
pediatric
populations.
Over.
F
Thank
you
and
that's
a
great
question
and-
and
I
think
that
goes
back
to
the
sars
kobe
1
question
and
those
individuals,
if
you
have
a
natural
infection,
you
make
antibodies
in
t
cell
memory
broadly
to
all
parts
of
the
virus.
Now,
when
you
get
a
shot
you're
only
getting
about
12
of
the
virus,
the
hat
of
the
virus
that
your
your
head,
but
in
a
natural
infection
in
all
diseases,
when
you
see
the
whole
organism
now
you
have
a
broad
brush
painted
picture
of
that
organism
and
your
body
says.
Well.
F
If
I
can't
attack
this
part,
I
can
attack
that
or
that
or
that
not
only
do
you
have
those
neutralizing
antibodies,
but
you
also
have
the
marines
of
your
immune
system
they're
the
first
ones
in
to
recognize
an
invader,
and
they
also
form
memory
and
they
attack
that
whole
virus
as
well.
But
when
you
focus
on
one
little
area
like
the
spike
and
it
mutates
now,
if
you
have
just
that,
vaccinal
immunity
you're
going
to
lose
that
breadth
of
coverage.
J
Augment
that
it
was
we,
we
use
this
terminology,
mucosal
immune
response,
and
it
may
not
mean
much
to
the
layperson.
J
What
the
language
means
is
that
your
immune
system
is
targeted
and
it
has
different
characteristics
depending
on
where
you
first
encounter
the
antigen
the
virus
and
this
term
mucosal
immunity.
What
it
means
is,
there
are
particular
types
of
antibodies,
brian
referred
to
them
as
secretory
iga
that
are
produced
in
the
lining
of
your
mucosa,
like
your
nose
and
your
oral
pharynx,
and
that's
where
you
get
infected
with
these
retro
respiratory
viruses
first
and
so
the
answer.
The
specific
answer
to
your
question.
J
In
addition
to
what
dr
cole
just
mentioned,
is
there's
this
specific
category
of
antibody
that's
produced
with
natural
infection
that
is
not
produced
with
the
parenteral
infection
that
muscle
shot
and
that
is
key
to
clearing
the
virus
and
preventing
you
from
being
infected
by
the
normal
route
of
your
nose
and
your
mouth
or
your
eyes
is
a
frequent
source.
I
hope
that
made
sense.
Sir.
C
Again,
sherman
is
my
last
question.
I
promise
help
me
understand
the
the
vaccines
that
were
developed.
They
were
developed
under
an
emergency
or
correct,
so
they
did
not
go
through
the
normal
testing
and
trials
that
take
years.
Can
you
explain
that
so
we
can?
The
committee
can
have
a
better
understanding
of
that
process.
You
recognize.
J
J
What
we
have
is
a
situation
in
which,
under
the
understandable
fog
of
war
and
the
need
to
expedite
some
immediate
response,
a
series
of
decisions
were
made
in
the
white
house
and
in
the
task
force
known
as
operation
warp
speed.
I
actually
had
mentored
the
now
colonel
who
was
in
charge
of
ows
for
moderna,
so
I'm
very
aware
of
what
happened
and
it
certainly,
although
the
government
has
asserted
that
no
there
were
no
steps
of
taken
that
normally
would
be
taken,
that
that
is
not
true,
as
you
correctly
identify.
J
Typically,
it
takes
us
10
years
and
well
over
a
billion
dollars
to
take
a
vaccine
to
licensure,
and
it
typically
requires
at
least
two
years
after
completion
of
the
phase
three
trials.
In
the
case
of
this
particular
situation,
there
was
a
decision
by
the
fda
to
allow
the
vaccine
manufacturers
to
bypass
a
number
of
the
normal
steps.
That
would
be
required
before
the
product
would
ever
be
used
in
humans
and
to
minimize
the
characterization
that
would
be
normally
performed.
A
number
of
these
steps
include
a
characterization
of
genotoxicity
biodistribution,
what
we
call
pharmacokinetics.
J
So
this
is
how
long
the
material
lasts
inside
your
body
and
the
levels
of
protein
and
the
levels
of
the
drug
that
are
that
are
sustained
in
various
tissue
compartments
and
where
it
goes.
This
information
have
now
gradually
trickled
out
and
most
recently
there
was
a
major
publication
in
the
journal
called
sell
by
a
group
from
stanford
so
impeccable
credentials.
J
That
demonstrated
that,
although
the
pharmaceutical
companies
asserted
that
these
rnas
only
last
for
a
very
short
period
of
time
in
your
body
in
humans,
it
was
clearly
demonstrated
through
fine
needle
aspiration
that
these
rnas
last
in
the
body
for
at
least
60
days,
so
there's
a
number
of
steps
that
were
not
taken
which
are
normally
required,
and
it's
understandable.
I
don't
fault
my
colleagues
for
wanting
to
rush
something
out
the
door.
J
But
now
it's
two
years
later
essentially-
and
we
do
know
that
a
number
of
those
steps
were
bypassed
and
they
were
now
starting
to
understand
now
that
pfizer
has
been
forced
judicially
to
release
the
nine
pages
of
adverse
events
associated
with
these
vaccines
that
we're
dealing
with
a
much
more
complex
landscape
of
adverse
events
than
any
of
us
had
anticipated.
Unfortunately,
I
hope
that
answers
your
question,
sir.
C
D
Yes,
sir,
and
thank
you
chairman,
thank
you
all
for
being
here.
D
I'd
like
to
talk
to
you
all
a
few
months
ago,
very
much
the
I
was
someone
who
who
early
on
caught
early
on
covet
first
go
around
actually
missed
some
time
here
and
my
doctor,
and
I
decided
that
we
were
going
to
measure,
try
to
do
a
measured
immunity,
testing
of
antibodies
to
see
if
and
when
they
waned
and
if
and
when
he
was
going
to
suggest
that
I
I'd
take
a
vaccine
before
I'm
around
a
lot
more
people,
and
it
seems
as
if
they
had
a
number.
D
He
had
a
number
in
mind
and
I'm
not
an
epidemiologist
nor
I'm
just
a
patient.
That
follows
my
doctor's
advice
and
at
some
point
about
six
months
into
it.
He
said:
hey
your
antibodies
have
waned
to
the
point
where
he
said
you
need
to
start
thinking
about
getting
at
least
taking
one
of
the
vaccines,
and
the
premise
of
this
bill
is
is
that
you
can
basically
get
documented
that
you've
that
you
you've
had
covid
but
with
a
quantitative
waning
of
antibodies.
D
D
But
can
you
is
the
measurable
diminishment
of
antibodies
a
concern
and
does
that
actually
affect
your
immunity
or
do
the
t
cells
that
come
in
that
you
can't
measure?
Is
that
what's
going
to
kick
because
I
saw
I
was
getting
blood
test
results
back
and
I
was
watching
numbers
drop
and
and
now
what
those
numbers
were.
I
had
to
assume
that
he
knew
what
they
were,
but
that
but
that's
my
question
and
I'm
sorry
for
the
the
jibber
jabbering
around,
but
I'm
trying
to
communicate
in
stuff
that
I'm
not
that
smart
about.
F
Now,
thank
you,
that's
an
excellent
question,
and-
and
this
is
a
common
question
and
my
aunt,
my
answer
is
generally
antibody
shmani
bodies,
because
your
antibodies
always
go
down
in
any
infection.
If
we
kept
an
antibody
response
level
to
all
the
pathogens
were
exposed
to
every
day,
our
blood
would
sludge,
so
it
would
be
non-viable
for
life,
so
your
antibodies
level
levels
do
go
down,
but
what's
important
is
we
have
memory
cells
both
in
our
lymph
nodes
and
in
our
bone
marrow,
both
b
cells
that
make
those
antibodies?
F
Those
memory
cell
cells
still
exist
and
then,
more
importantly,
those
t
cells,
which
you
can
measure
a
subset
of
t
cells
that
has
been
activated
to
sarge,
kobe
2..
So
there
is
a
test
that
measures
for
activation
specific
to
sars
cov2
virus.
It's
a
little
more
expensive
test,
unfortunately,
but
it
is
documentable
the
most
important
thing
and
I
think,
and
dr
kumar
brought
this
up-
is
if
you've
had
an
infection
you've
had
you
know
you
were
ill.
You
had
a
positive
test.
F
Your
doctor
has
validated
that
in
the
history
of
medicine
generally,
if
you've
had
a
disease-
and
your
doctor
says
look
you've
had
that
disease.
I
mean
that's
documentation
enough
in
my
opinion,
because
it
does
become
kind
of
a
rabbit
hole
of
well.
How
do
we
prove
this?
How
do
you
do
that?
There
are
some
good
lab
tests.
F
Especially
if
you
look
at
that
large
study
out
of
qatar,
there
were
no
adverse
outcomes
in
the
handful
of
people
that
got
coped
again
after
being
covered
or
covered,
whereas
in
the
vaccinated
group
there
were
a
lot
more
icu
admissions
and
and
demises.
So,
looking
at
the
broad
clinical
outcome
in
recovery
of
diseases,
one
of
the
best
societal
measures
of
acquired
immunity.
D
Bond
you
recognize
thank
you,
and
this
is
just
the
one
follow-up
my
wife
was
tested
and
determined
to
to
have
antibodies,
yet
she
never
presented
a
symptom,
and
so
from
that
standpoint
again,
her
doctor,
my
physician,
said:
hey
yeah,
you've
had
it,
you
you've
got
a
period
of
time.
Here
you
can
go,
do
whatever
you,
you
know
is
responsible,
but
for
those
people
who
don't
present
is
there
some
are
y'all
against
them
going
to
get
tested.
D
I'm
trying
to
figure
that
out
because
there's
a
lot
of
folks
walk
around
that
think
they're
the
luckiest
people
in
the
world
because
they've
never
had
it
never
caught
it,
but
yet
they
may
have
had
it
and
and
have
never
presented.
So
that's
my
question
is:
is
what
program
or
should
the
general
society?
D
F
A
great
question
and
a
lot
of
people
never
do
present
a
symptom
and
if
we
look
at
some
antibody
studies,
take,
for
example,
children
in
the
uk
as
of
january
96
of
kids
through
those
studies
had
been
shown
to
already
have
coping
now
we
can
assume
based
on
now
the
cdc's
data
is
way
behind,
but
we
know
hundreds
of
millions
of
americans
have
had
cope.
They
said
140
million
last
week,
it's
far
higher
than
that
likely
to
your
point
of
you
know,
asymptomatic
individuals-
and
this
was
just
laboratory
data.
F
You
know,
aggregated
from
around
the
country,
so
great
question,
there's
a
set
percentage
of
people
that
will
never
get
coped
and
here's.
Why?
Because
we
have
common
cold
coronaviruses
that
are
60
similar
to
this
virus,
and
so
you
will
going
to
that
broad
natural
immunity,
because
they've
formed
some
antibody
memory
to
these
other
common
cold
viruses
may
never
get
covered
at
all.
Now
is
cobit
with
us
still.
Will
it
be
endemic?
Yes,
are
we
back
down
to
pre-december
levels
of
infection?
We
are
so
we
have
this
giant
omicron
spike.
F
You
know
we're
back
down
to
take
a
breath.
We
don't
have
a
medical
emergency
anymore
per
se.
If
you
want
to
get
tested.
The
antibody
testing
is
easy.
The
t
cell
testing
is
more
expensive.
If
you
already
had
covid,
don't
worry
about
it,
but
if
you
have
that
question
yeah
there
are
laboratories
that
can
do
it
and
those
are
measurable.
J
Can
I
add
one
comment
to
this:
the
underlying
thesis
of
a
lot
of
this
discussion
is
that
this
is
a
highly
lethal
pathogen,
but
in
the
current
embodiment,
whether
or
not
the
original
strain
was
and
like
you,
I
was
infected
in
february
of
2020
with
the
original
wuhon
strain
and
it
affected
me
deeply
omicron,
as
I
predicted
before
christmas,
is
acting
as
a
natural
vaccine.
It's
eliciting
the
mucosal
immune
response.
It's
extremely
infectious.
J
It's
swept
through
the
entire
population,
but
fortunately
it's
not
very
pathogenic.
Now
it's
possible
that
could
change.
That's
the
truth,
but
right
now
what
we're
dealing
with
is
not
a
highly
lethal
pathogen
and
we've
had
a
lot
of
fear
that
we've
all
been
subjected
to
over
the
last
two
years.
Unfortunately,
but
we're
now
in
a
situation
where
the
currently
circulating
virus
is
not
highly
pathogenic,
and
so
and
furthermore,
the
vaccines
are
not
protecting
against
infection
replication
and
spread.
J
So
I
think
that
this
I
can
certainly
understand
the
fear
that
all
of
us
have
and
have
experienced
and
your
constituents
have
experienced,
but
fortunately,
or
unfortunately,
that
fear
is
unfounded
at
this
point
in
time
with
this
virus
and
particularly
for
your
children,
they
clear
this
really
rapidly
for
a
number
of
reasons,
and
so
I
think
a
lot
of
this
underlying
assumption
that
we
have
to
be
super
sensitive
about
this
particular
pathogen
is
unfounded.
This
is
not
the
s.
This
is
not
delta.
This
is
not
the
original
strain.
J
What
circulating
right
now
is
not
a
highly
pathogenic
respiratory
virus,
because
the
virus
is
shifted
where
it's
infecting
you'll
recall.
If
I
can
just
give
you
one
last
thing
to
kind
of
help
you
process
remember
h1n1,
I
do
h1n1
came
in
two
flavors
there's
a
version
of
h1n1
that
infected
your
upper
respiratory
tract
and
that
was
not
highly
lethal.
There
was
a
version
that
rests
infected
your
lower
respiratory
tract,
got
lodged
in
your
lungs
and
that
killed
people.
That's
always
been
the
case
and
the
original
strains
that
were
circulating
had
that
characteristic.
J
They
would
infect
your
deep
lung
and
that's
why
it
took
so
many
of
your
friends
and
colleagues,
but
the
omicron
and
the
ones
that
are
developing
off
of
omicron
have
shifted
for
some
reason.
Thank
god
and
they're.
Now
infecting
this
part
of
the
airway
and
your
nasopharynx
and
they're
not
highly
pathogenic.
I
hope
that
helps.
B
D
J
You
recognize
well,
okay,
if
I,
if
I
shall
I
I'm
gonna
catch
that
one
when
I
was
infected
and
when
your
colleague
was
infected,
there
wasn't
a
vaccine,
so
we
didn't
have
that
option
when
when
we
did
have
a
period
of
time
when
you
had
a
highly
lethal
version
delta
and
the
availability
of
vaccine,
the
demons,
the
data
demonstrated
that
for
high-risk
individuals
it
was
unequivocal.
Just
as
the
great
barrington
declaration
authors
had
recommended
that
it
absolutely
made
sense
as
a
risk-benefit
ratio.
J
The
people
are
in
that
in
those
high-risk
groups
should
be
vaccinated
against
delta.
Now
we're
no
delta
is
gone.
It
was
out
competed
by
omicron.
Omicron
is
much
more
infectious
and,
like
I
said
it,
acts
like
a
vaccine
and
so
we're
no
longer
in
that
position
then.
But
there
was
a
period
of
time
when
people
who
were
at
high
risk
definitely
had
a
beneficial
risk
benefit
ratio
to
receiving
the
vaccine.
J
A
Thank
you
next
on
our
list,
representative
mitchell,
you
recognize.
K
K
So
by
your
logic
there
should
we
just
stop
immunizing
children
for
a
lot
of
the
diseases
that
we've
wiped
off
almost
wiped
off
the
planet,
because
you
know
we
saw
a
resurgence
of
measles
and
smallpox
recently
because
parrots
didn't
immunize
their
children.
So
what
do
you
suggest
doing.
J
Situations
like
that,
can
you
can
you
tell
me
where
we
had
a
resurgence
of
smallpox?
That's
new
news
to
me.
F
So
unless
you
stick
a
shot
in
every
bat
and
every
pangolin
and
every
deer,
the
white-tailed
deer
like
to
house
this
virus
in
their
nasal
mucosa
as
well.
There
are
too
many
animal
reservoirs
for
this
kind
of
virus.
There's
certain
viruses
that
you're
talking
about
that
we've
essentially
been
able
to
eliminate
from
humanity.
We
will
never
get
to
covet
zero,
because
this
virus
has
the
opportunity
to
go
back
and
forth
between
animals
and
humans.
F
J
I
Thank
you,
sir.
I
might
bring
up
that
there's
treatment,
early
treatment
really
works,
and
I've
demonstrated
that
in
my
own,
over
4
000
patients,
there
are
many
protocols
that
we've
used
for
over
almost
two
years
now.
So
early
treatment
is
a
very,
very
good
alternative.
In
fact
superior
to
vaccination.
K
F
You
know
I
in
terms
of
the
vaccine:
no,
I
haven't
recommended
it
to
anyone,
because
I
am
I've
never
spoken
against
a
vaccine
in
my
life,
so
you
know
those
who
have
labeled
me:
anti-vaxxer
incorrect,
I'm
pro-good
science,
and
in
this
regard
we
had
a
new
experimental
gene
shot
with
no
long-term
outcomes
by
the
time
delta
hit.
We
were
starting
to
see
the
efficacy
of
the
shot
wane
and
become
negative
same
thing
with
omicron
in
children
who
have
a
zero
percent
risk.
F
I
would
never
recommend
this
shot
for
a
child
ever
just
like
governor
desantis
did
in
terms
of
no
healthy
child
should
get
this
shot.
So
in
retrospect,
no-
and
you
know
a
small
benefit-
maybe
in
some
of
the
elderly,
but
now
my
concern
is
we're
seeing
those
who
got
multiple
shots,
who
are
dying
of
in
in
studies,
they're
dying
of
all-cause
mortality,
all
other
causes
at
higher
rates
in
that
vaccinated
group.
So
my
immun,
my
background
concern
is,
as
in
you
know,
with
a
background
in
immunology
pathology
biology.
F
F
F
Lose
a
single
patient,
not
a
single
patient
was
hospitalized,
not
a
single
patient
passed
away.
Yes,
I
used
diber
mechanic,
hydroxychloroquine,
budestine,
pheno,
fibrate,
etc.
A
K
K
But
you
know,
but
I
think
the
credibility
to
this
committee
when
he
tells
us
he
hasn't,
lost
a
patient
and
there's
complaints
in
the
indiana
board
of
medicine,
five
different
complaints
for
the
patient
dying
because
they
were
they
were
given
ivermectin
instead
of
the
vaccine.
I
think
that's
relevant
to
this
committee's
knowledge.
H
Thank
you.
This
is
just
a
comment
chairman
if
you
so
allow
me,
I
just
wanted
to
say
dr
sibley.
Thank
you.
I
first
said
at
your
kitchen
table
and
you
told
me
that
you
had
you
know
we're
saving
about
100
people
and
to
hear
you
say:
we've
made
it
with
4500
in
johnson
city.
That
means
the
world
to
me.
I
thank
you
for
your
fight
for
your
diligence
and
you've
faced
much
adverse
problems
with
the
medical
community
in
our
area,
and
I
just
want
to
say
thank
you.
A
B
B
A
Legal
benefit.
Are
you
recognizing
thank.
L
You
rachel
bachoy
office
of
legal
services
under
tennessee,
state
law,
a
private
business,
governmental
entity,
school
or
local
education
agency
shall
not
compel
or
otherwise
take
an
adverse
action
against
a
person
to
compel
the
person
to
provide
proof
of
vaccination
if
the
person
objects
to
receiving
a
covenant
vaccine.
For
any
reason,
so
under
this
law
is
142
102
a
it
prohibits
those
entities
from
requiring
a
person
to
provide
proof
of
vaccination
effectively
prohibiting
a
vaccine
mandate.
L
Now
there
are
exceptions
in
the
definitions
of
private
business
and
governmental
entity
and
that
those
exceptions
are
tied
to
the
only
are
tied
to
various
federal
mandates,
most
notably
the
federal
mandate.
That's
still
standing
is
the
cms
mandate
for
health
care
employees
and
other
staff
members.
L
So
those
entities
are
the
only
indies
in
tennessee
that
have
a
vaccine
mandate.
Representative.
B
Kimmy
you're
recognized.
Thank
you.
It's
just
one
follow-up,
mr
chairman,
for
clarity
for
me
dealing
with
house
bill
1871.
B
A
governmental
entity
of
business
has
to
recognize
natural
human
immunity,
as
I
guess
just
like
you
would
recognize
the
vaccine.