►
Description
House Insurance Subcommittee - February 8, 2022 - House Hearing Room 2
A
A
A
Seeing
none,
as
we
stated
in
full
committee,
dr
kumar,
it's
wonderful
to
have
you
back
so
glad
to
glad
to
have
you
back
and
certainly
in
the
prayers
of
all
of
us.
Your
family
has
been
so.
Thank
you
so
much.
We
do
have
a
calendar
before
us.
A
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman
and
committee
house,
bill.
1925
is
a
model
piece
of
legislation
that
deals
with
the
travel
insurance
industry.
There
was
some
regulatory
uncertainty
at
the
national
level
and
then
the
national
association
of
insurance
commissioners
and
the
u.s
travel
insurance
association
had
created
this
model
legislation
that
should
bring
some
consistency
and
uniformity
across
the
states.
It's
already
been
adopted
by
18
states,
and
I
think
it's
been
carried
in
a
lot
of
others
this
year.
Mr
chairman,
I'll,
take
any
questions.
A
C
A
B
You,
mr
chairman
and
chairman,
we
do
actually
have
duke
de
haas,
that's
here
today
that
that
I
think
is
on
the
list.
If
you'd
like
a
very
detailed
explanation,
he
is
here
today
if
you'd
like
to
go
out
a
session
and
hear
from
him.
A
A
And
I'll
I'll
allow
you
once
you
get
the
the
microphone
on
I'll.
Allow
you
just
for
the
record
to
introduce
yourself
to
us.
Give
us
your
name
who
you're
with
and
I'll
say
it
in
the
beginning.
Duke
de
haas
is
with
us
for
from
alliance
partners.
Mr
dahaas,
you
recognize
please
we'll
go
out
of
session.
D
How
about
now
thank
you
good
afternoon,
I'm
duke
de
haas.
Vice
president
deputy
general
counsel,
with
allianz
partners
u.s
and
from
richmond
virginia.
We
are
a
large
travel
insurance
writer
and
a
member
of
the
united
states
travel
insurance
association,
who
I'm
also
here
on
behalf
of
happy
to
answer.
Any
detailed
questions
worked
on
the
model
at
the
national
level,
both
encoil
representative
kumar,
I
believe,
you've
been
at
meetings
before
and
also
the
naic
did
the
legislation.
So
there's
two
models:
sort
of
incorporated
into
this
and
happy
to
answer
detailed
questions
about
it.
A
Jeremy
kumar
being
from
richmond,
I'm
hope
guessing.
This
may
be
your
one
trip
down
if
chairman
kumar,
if
there's
any
questions,
you've
got.
D
D
They
have
to
be
what's
called
registered,
so
they
are
allowed
to
do
certain
things,
not
the
same
things
as
an
insurance
producer
agent,
but
that's
the
general
model
for
selling
travel
insurance.
What
this
model
so
so
that
model's
been
in
existence
for
a
while,
including
in
tennessee.
What
this
model
does
is
as
a
result
of
regulatory
uncertainty
around
the
country.
There
was
multi-state
investigation
of
the
travel
insurance
industry
that
went
on
for
several
years.
D
So
all
of
those
things
are
baked
in
to
this
legislation.
They
were
heavily
debated.
Every
word
was
debated.
I
think
I
sat
through
30
meetings
over
the
course
of
a
couple
years
and
so
again
I'm
happy
to
go
into
detailed
parts
of
the
bill.
I
don't
want
to
take
up
too
much
time,
but
I
can
certainly
answer
any
questions
about
what's
being
addressed
and
that's
sort
of
the
framework
that's
being
set
up
and
being
proposed
to
be
put
into
tennessee
law.
C
D
Thank
you
sure,
so
so
there's
several
different
things.
So
there's
10
10
different
disclosures
are
built
into
the
bill
that
are
provided
to
the
consumers,
either
at
point
of
sale
or
at
during
the
during
the
process,
and
it
could
be
right
after
the
product
is
sold,
also
so
travel
insurance.
Unlike
many
mandatory
products
like
auto
and
home
in
many
states
and
health,
nobody
has
to
buy
it,
but
people
also
get
what's
called
a
free
look
period
so
10
or
15
days
after
you
purchase
the
product.
D
You
can
return
the
product
and
get
the
full
refund
of
your
money.
No
questions
asked
so
certain
things
are
provided
with
the
policy.
Certain
disclosures
are
provided
prior
to
so,
for
example,
something
that
was
heavily
debated
at
the
national,
not
debated
but
brought
up
at
the
national
level
or
pre-existing
condition
exclusions
so
again,
travel
insurance
is
not
a
health
insurance
product.
It's
a
discretionary
inland
marine
product.
D
So
it's
primarily
trip
cancellation
trip,
interruption
lost
baggage,
but
it
does
have
some
things
like
emergency
medical
coverage,
repatriation
and
such
so
for
pre-existing
conditions
which
are
generally
excluded
under
most
travel
insurance
policies.
Our
company
has
a
product
whereby
you
can
waive
the
exclusion
if
certain
conditions
apply.
So
if
you
buy
the
you
buy
the
policy
within
two
weeks
of
when
you
buy
your
trip
and
you're
able
to
travel
on
the
day.
D
You
bought
your
policy,
then
the
pre-existing
condition
exclusion
can
be
waived
so
essentially
that
covers
so
that
people
don't
buy
a
ten
thousand
dollar
cruise
and
then
a
week
before
they
know
they're
not
going
so
they
buy
a
travel
insurance
policy.
It's
usually
five
percent
of
the
overall
trip
costs.
D
So
then
they
turn
in
their.
You
know
turn
in
their
claim
and
get
we
have
to
pay
them
ten
thousand
dollars
for
what
they
paid
five
hundred
dollars.
For
so
some
of
those
little
conditions
are
baked
in
to
get
rid
of
the
pre-existing
condition
exclusion.
So
you
can
waive
that,
but
the
regulators
at
the
national
level
and
at
end
coil,
said
you
know
this
is
something
that
we've
heard
come
up.
Consumers
complain
about
it.
We
want
to
make
sure
people
know
about
that
pre-ex
exclusion.
D
If
there
is
one
in
the
policy
prior
to
purchase
or
at
when
they
purchase,
so
consumers
have
an
opportunity,
when
they're
buying
the
product
to
see
that
there's
going
to
be
a
pre-ex
potential
pre-ex
with
the
policy
and
they
can
click
on
it.
Similarly,
one
of
the
things
that
came
up
during
the
travel
insurance,
the
multi-state
investigation-
was
opt-out
sales.
Our
company
hasn't
done
them
since
2010
when
the
federal
government
out
outlawed
them,
but
some
other
companies
were
doing
it.
That
was
an
issue
for
a
number
of
the
states
opt
out.
D
I
don't
know
if
everyone
knows
opt
out
is
you're
going
through
a
booking
path
and
it's
the
box
is
already
checked
and
if
you
don't
do
something
you're
going
to
be
purchasing,
something
so
opt
out
is
not
permitted,
so
consumers
can't
get
stuck
with
a
policy.
They
don't
want,
and
so
that's
another
example
of
a
consumer
protection.
There's
some
others
too.
Those
are
a
couple
of
examples
for
sorry
in
general.
For
consumers
it
isn't
changing
the
market.
It
is
clarifying
some
things
like
I
said
we
weren't
doing
opt
out
before.
C
By
pre-existing
conditions,
you
mean
a
pre-existing
medical
condition
that
flares
up
during
travel
and
creates
liability
for
you
and
the
second
question
does
it
also
include
emergency
medical
transport.
D
Yes,
so
on
your
second
question:
first,
yes,
so
travel
insurance
policies
could
have
an
emergency
medical
transport,
so
I've
been
on.
I
went
on
cruises
with
my
family
every
year
at
christmas.
For
for
a
while,
at
one
point
we
saw
somebody
medevaced
off
a
ship,
so
our
policy
would
cover
something
like
that
to
your
first
question
pre-existing.
So
it's
defined
differently
depending
on
the
company.
Ours
has
a,
I
think,
a
four
month
look
back
period,
essentially
meaning
if
you've
been
treated
for
something
within
that
period.
D
We
don't
know
what
those
risks
are
that
you
carry
where
there's
no
individual
underwriting
it's
not
like
life
insurance
or
health
insurance.
So
you
come
into
the
product
with
whatever
conditions
you
already
have.
So
yes,
if
it's
a
flare-up
of
some
sort
of
physical
condition
that
you
had
within
that
four-month
period,
that
would
potentially
be
excluded.
As
I
noted,
usually
you
can
get
that
waived
with
with
most
of
our
products
under
the
conditions.
I
said.
A
E
E
I
want
to
thank
chairman
boyd
for
bringing
this,
but
knowing
that
travel
insurance
has
increased
in
its
use
as
people
go
on
trips
and
cruises,
and
just
like
the
the
purchase
of
insurance
for
tickets
and
and
for
for
other
venues,
if
you
wouldn't
mind,
inform
the
committee
on
how
and
ensure
and
assure
us
that
there
aren't
new
exemptions
as
it
relates
to
coveted
policy,
because
what
we're
seeing,
especially
in
the
travel
industry
is
people
are
saying
that
if
you
test
positive,
then
you're
not
going
to
be
able
to
go,
we
want
to
make
sure
that
there's
not
any
carveouts
that
would
allow
travelers
to
be
denied
their
refund
or
their
insurance
coverage
in
the
case
of
some
sort
of
a
coveted
policy,
that's
outside
of
their
control.
D
Thank
you.
Thank
you
for
the
question.
So
if
I
could
talk
just
about
kovitt
for
a
minute,
so
travel
stopped
in
2020
and
travel
insurance
purchases
stopped,
but
the
claims
kept
coming
for
quite
a
while.
So
our
company,
for
example,
we
lost
a
lot
of
people
employees
because
of
days
of
negative
revenue.
Essentially,
fortunately,
it's
come
back
around
generally.
So
if
you've
heard,
if
you
know
about
business
interruption,
so
covet
is
a
pandemic,
so
something
that
hits
basically
the
whole
population
insurance
is
not
generally
written
to
cover
pandemics.
D
So
we
had
a
pandemic
or
epidemic
exclusion
in
our
policies.
So
when
coveted
hit,
first
of
all,
fear
of
traveling
is
not
a
reason
to
have
coverage
under
your
policy
either.
So
lots
of
people
had
claims
and
lots
of
people
didn't
have
coverage
what
our
company
did
was
we
made
certain
what
were
called
accommodations,
so
people
who
got
coveted
when
they
were
on
their
trip.
We
didn't
have
to
cover
them.
D
I
know
the
insurance
department
is
here.
This
was
something
that
I
think
departments
generally
knew
about,
you're
generally
not
supposed
to
pay
claims
if
it's
not
covered
under
your
policy,
because
there
can
be
solvency
concerns
the
other
way.
We
did
that
because
we
knew
our
customers
were
hurting.
We
also
paid
refunds
outside
of
the
10
or
15
day
period,
so
tens
of
millions
of
dollars
were
paid
that
didn't
have
to
be
paid.
D
What
we
did
in
the
interim
also
and
other
companies
did
this
as
well.
It's
not
just
all
eons.
We
developed,
what's
called
an
epidemic
endorsement,
so
I
checked
before
coming
here.
It
is,
it
has
been
filed
with
the
department.
It's
been
approved,
it's
in
the
market
in
tennessee,
so
people
who
go
on
our
trip
and
get
co.
They
can
buy
our
policy
and
have
coverage
now.
Even
so,
even
though
I
said
earlier,
typically
a
pandemic
can't
be
covered.
We
figured
out
how
to
price
it
and
such
so
that
people
can
get
coverage.
D
It's
not
universal
for
every
single
thing,
but
people
will
have
coverage
if
they
get
covered
while
they're
on
their
trip
or
they
get
quarantined,
for
example
them
specifically
and
have
to
stay
at
a
hotel
for
a
week
while
they
recover,
for
example.
I
hope
I'm
answering
your
question.
Covett
is
not
actually
the
subject
of
this
bill,
but
I
wanted
to
address
the
topic
because
it's
obviously
come
up
a
lot.
E
You
chairman,
and
so
you
can
tell
the
rock
tumbler-
is
up
here
trying
to
smooth
the
rocks
out
just
a
minute.
So
what
I
hear
you
say
for
the
record
is
that,
because
this
is
not
a
a
a
a
state
that
business
interruption
excuse
me
business
interruption
insurance
would
cover
covet,
because
a
lot
of
people
are
buying
travel
insurance
under
the
idea.
E
That
should
something
happen
and
the
trip
be
cancelled
because
of
covid
or
if
I
develop
covid,
and
I'm
told
I
can't
board
the
ship,
because
I
test
positive,
even
though
I'm
asymptomatic
so
you're
telling
me
that
that
that
any
travel
insurance
really
does
not
cover
that.
But
you
all
are
making
some
type
of
provisions
in
your
specific
company,
but
that's
not
the
the
model
legislation.
The
legislation.
Would
that
be
a
fair
statement
to
make?
E
D
D
We
figured
out-
I
think
other
companies
have
done
this
too,
that
it's
probably
four
to
five
percent
more
expensive
to
buy
it,
but
you
can
buy
that
epidemic
cover
that
epidemic
endorsement.
That
will
give
you
that
coverage
otherwise
and
it
sort
of
would
be
true
generally
and
it's
true,
even
if
you
buy
the
epidemic
endorsement,
make
sure
you
read
the
policy.
You
know
where
you're
going
beforehand,
if
you're
working
with
an
agent
or
a
producer,
ask
those
questions,
certainly
on
the
front
end.
B
B
D
A
I
I
will
ask,
and
forgive
me
I
think
I
pronounced
the
name
of
your
company
incorrectly
ali
ants
alliance.
It's
alliance,
mr
chairman
alliance.
Forgive
me,
obviously
sounds
french,
so
I
appreciate
that
we
asked
a
couple
questions
earlier
in
the
in
the
audience.
Tell
me
a
little
bit
and
share
with
me
and
again
this
may
already
be
in
practice,
but
just
to
give
us
an
idea
of
the
industry.
Who
is
the
agent
selling
the
product?
Are
we
looking
at
the
travel
agent
at
what
level
is
someone
selling
the
product.
D
So,
thank
you,
mr
chairman.
The
structure
generally
is
there's
an
insurance
company
or
underwriter
at
the
top
there's
a
limited
lines,
travel
insurance
producer.
It
could
be
a
full,
fully
licensed
producer
and
then
there's
a
retailer.
Typically,
the
product
is,
is
sold
at
the
retailer
level.
So
it's
typically
if
it's
electronically,
which
a
lot
of
travel
insurance,
is
sold.
That
way
there
would
be
an
offer
box
where
our
offer
is
made
to
the
customer
who's
on
american
airlines
who
could
be
a
travel
retailer.
D
It
could
also
be
done
through
a
travel
agency
like
a
mom
and
pop.
You
know
in
a
strip
mall
selling
it.
So
that's
the
basic
structure,
the
retailer
is
sort
of
making
the
offer
there's
a
producer
who
can
answer
questions
from
a
licensee
level
and
then
there's
the
insurance
company
with
the
financial
backing
who's
underwriting.
The
policy.
A
D
A
Without
objection,
we
will
go
back
into
session
any
questions
or
comments
for
chairman
boyd,
chairman
boyd.
We
are
hopeful
that
you
memorized
everything
that
mr
de
haas
just
said
and
just
in
case
he
cannot
come
back
from
richmond
next
week.
A
He
will
be
quizzed
on
this
once
again
in
full
committee.
So
question
has
been
called
on
the
legislation,
all
those
in
favor
of
sending
house
bill
1925
to
full
insurance
committee.
Please
signify
by
saying
aye
anyone
opposed.
Please
say:
no,
the
ice
habit,
your
bill
moves
forward.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman
committee.
Thank
you
any
other
business
to
come
before
the
subcommittee,
seeing
none
we
are
adjourned.
Thank
you.
All.