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B
Thank
You
presiding
officer
and
I'm
pleased
to
open
the
debate
on
the
general
principles
of
the
non-domestic
great
Scotland
bill,
which
was
introduced
to
Parliament
on
the
21st
25th
of
March
2019,
and
in
my
opening
remarks.
I'll
set
out
the
background
to
this
bill
and
then
move
on
to
the
substance,
while
keeping
it
short
because
I
recognize
members
want
as
much
time
as
possible
to
offer
their
own
contributions.
Their
government
is
committed
to
using
their
limited
economic
powers
at
our
disposal
to
create
a
tax
environment
that
supports
economic
opportunity,
a
sec
Scotland's
second
largest
tax.
B
Like
the
business
growth
accelerator,
which
was
warmly
welcomed
by
the
business
community
and
the
Fresh
Start
relief
to
support
town
centres,
now
we
said
we'd
bring
forward
primary
legislation
by
2020
and
the
bill
being
debated.
2D
fulfills
that
commitment
now
the
bill
contains
meaningful
reforms
to
the
rate
system
and,
of
particular
note,
is
the
three-year
revaluation
cycle,
which
has
been
welcomed
by
many,
including
the
Royal
Institute
of
Chartered
Surveyors
and
the
Scottish
Retail
Consortium,
because
it
delivers
justice
by
most
closely
aligned
valuations
with
the
market.
B
The
bill
also
gives
new
powers
to
Assessors
to
local
authorities
and
ministers
to
improve
the
administration
of
the
system
and
to
tackle
tax
avoidance
now
presiding
officer.
A
lot
of
hard
work
has
been
undertaken
by
a
range
of
stakeholders.
Prior
to
these
to
today's
debate
and
I
do
want
to
pay
tribute
to
the
members
of
the
Berkeley
implementation
advisory
group,
the
subgroups
that
were
looking
at
billing
and
appeals
and
the
working
group
in
looking
at
sports
club
relief
guidance.
B
The
members
of
those
groups
have
given
and
continue
to
give
freely
of
their
time
to
help
ensure
that
these
rates
reforms
subject
to
Parliament's,
will
can
be
implemented
as
efficiently
and
effectively
as
possible.
No
presiding
officer
I
want
to
move
to
perhaps
the
most
important
area
of
the
bill
today,
and
that
is
the
appeal
system.
B
Our
proposed
reforms
to
the
appeal
system
are
perhaps
the
most
important
and
the
ambitious
of
the
reforms
that
we
are
implementing,
but
they
are
also
the
most
complex
I
believe
that
if
we
fail
to
reform
the
appeal
system
effectively,
we
risk
negating
any
benefit
from
all
of
the
other
proposed
rates.
Changes
now
I
understand
that
the
recent
reforms
to
the
appeal
system
in
England
have
delivered
a
system
that
is
bogged
down
in
bureaucracy
and
red
tape,
resulting
in
possibly
millions
of
ratepayers
being
unable
to
access
a
fair
rates
hearing.
B
We
must
learn
from
that
and
make
every
effort
to
get
our
own
reforms
right
and
the
appeals
subgroup,
which
was
established
to
inform
advice
to
Scottish
Ministers
that
the
group's
report
was
published
today
offering
views
on
the
potential
design
of
a
new
appeals
system.
I
received
the
report
this
morning
and
a
copy
has
also
been
sent
to
the
lead
committee
and
I
look
forward
to
reading
it
and
reflecting
on
the
content
that
was
fair
to
say
that
not
all
provisions
in
the
bill
have
been
universally
welcomed.
B
Specifically,
the
removal
of
charitable
rate
relief
from
mainstream
independent
schools
and
I
recognise
that
the
independent
school
sector
is
a
well-established
part
of
the
Scottish
education
system
that
promotes
choice
for
appearance.
However,
we
agree
with
the
Berkeley
review
that
the
current
difference
in
rates
treatment
between
independent
and
local
authority
schools
is
unfair
and
must
end
and
I
stress
unequivocally
that
this
is
a
change
to
rating
and
not
to
charity
law.
Now
a
now
turn
with
the
time
I've
got
left
to
the
leader
committees
stage.
B
And
that's
why
I
wrote
to
the
committee
on
the
third
of
September
to
say
that
we
will
produce
towards
the
end
of
this
year
a
set
of
illustrative
draft
appeal
regulations
to
help
the
committee
and
other
stakeholders
to
see
and
to
comment
on
our
detailed
draft
proposals.
Now
the
committee
considers
that
fees
should
be
introduced
at
both
the
proposal
and
the
appeal
stage
of
the
new
appeal
process
and,
whilst
I've,
yet
to
reach
a
conclusion
on
the
matter.
B
The
committee's
report
comments
on
the
divergence
of
views
expressed
on
some
key
issues,
and
we
recognize
that
the
level,
for
example,
at
which
civil
penalties
have
been
set,
I
look
forward
to
further
discussion
on
those
important
issues
during
the
bills,
amending
stages
and
presiding
officer.
To
give
back
some
time
to
the
debate,
I
now
move
that
the
Parliament
agrees
to
the
general
principles
of
the
non-domestic
rates
Scotland
bill.
Thank.
A
C
You
for
no
sorry
I
want
to
begin
by
thanking
the
Clarkes
and
staff,
both
there,
the
committee
carts
and
stuff
from
space,
but
all
the
support,
and
also
the
Minister
and
Scottish
government
for
the
general
supportive
response
to
stage
one
report
but,
of
course,
most
of
all
I
wanna.
Thank
the
committee.
Men
must
be
worked
hard
to
bring
forward
this
report,
both
those
that
are
still
present
on
the
committee
and
those
that
came
before
saying
officer
local
government
communities
committee
began
our
scrutiny
of
the
bowl
before
I
was
during
the
spring
of
this
year.
C
We
took
evidence
at
five
meetings
and
a
Coast
review
generated
a
very
high
volume
of
response.
The
committee
went,
three
visits
want
an
independent
school
and
the
other
two
were
high
street
visits
to
kumano
and
sterling,
where
we
met
with
local
businesses,
charities
and
other
employers
in
order
to
get
a
snapshot
of
local
views
in
the
rating
system.
This
high
level
of
informed
engagement
help
the
committee
enormous
ly
in
a
rule
of
reporting
to
the
Parliament
on
the
general
principles
of
the
bill
tonic
to
that
report.
C
At
the
outset,
I
wish
to
say
that
the
committee
unanimously
endorsed
the
bose
general
principles.
We
took
this
possession
because
of
the
clear
support
from
various
sectors,
public
and
private
business
and
third
sector
for
the
overall
direction
of
travel.
Auckland
I
would
like
to
single
out
to
the
forums
and
particular
for
comment.
The
first
was
a
proposal
to
speed
up
the
evaluation
cycle
from
the
existing
five
to
three
years
and
to
bring
the
date
and
wedge
evaluations
are
calculated
the
tune
date,
one
year
closer
to
the
date
on
which
the
evaluation
actually
takes
effect.
C
Put
some
way.
This
means
a
few
periods.
The
amount
you
pay
should
more
closely
reflect
the
actual
current
value
of
your
property
as
to
be
hoped
that
this
will
result
in
fewer
appeals
against
valuations
and
just
about
everyone
agreed
that
are
far
too
many
appeals
at
present
the
clog
up
the
system
eating
into
these
sources
of
councillors
and
Assessors.
They
can
take
an
extraordinary
amount
of
time
to
dissolve,
which,
of
course,
does
not
help
great
peers
Eila.
The
second
reform
I
want
to
mention
is
the
new
provisions
on
the
appeal
process.
C
These
two
are
generally
welcomed,
there's
a
general
consensus
that
the
current
system
is
unsustainable.
The
committee
debts
of
some
caveats
that
I
think
the
Parliament
should
be
aware
of,
and
I
will
mention
to.
First,
the
switch
to
three-year
cycle
undoubtedly
means
more
work
for
Assessors
and
the
profession
already
has
a
recruitment
problem.
This
needs
our
attention
and
we
ask
the
Scottish
Government
what
plans
it
has
to
address.
It
say
new
appeals
provision,
simply
a
framework
for
advice
process,
but
leave
the
details
for
later,
and
the
committee
understands
why
the
Scottish
Government
has
done
this.
C
We
done
it
this
way,
but
of
course
it
does
mean
that
the
ministers
just
ed
the
next
steps,
will
be
crucial
to
ensure
the
end
up
with
an
appeal
system
that
is
more
efficient
than
the
one
we
have
now,
but
if
they
know
that
I
don't
say
that
slightly
because
the
committee,
as
does
the
government,
appreciates
the
importance
of
access
to
justice,
especially
for
smaller
enterprises,
but
govern
the
evidence
we
received.
We
asked
the
government
to
give
very
careful
consideration
to
introducing
fees
for
the
peels
and
I'm
delighted
that
the
minister
again
has
a
comment.
C
Today
and
said
that
she
would
give
the
serious
consideration
there
became
clear
to
us
that
the
absence
of
fees
is
one
of
the
primary
factors
contributing
to
a
climate
or
speculative
appeals,
have
become
normalized.
I
know
Tom
to
the
most
contentious
proposal
of
the
bulb
section
12
of
the
bowl
removed
from
most
independent
schools.
The
rate
to
claim
mandatory
charitable
relief
I
do
expect
us
to
be
widely
discussed.
C
Today's
for
my
comments
of
brief,
the
majority
of
responses
to
have
called
for
evidence
we're
a
bit
section,
12
and
generally
from
parents,
teachers
and
occasionally
young
people
with
a
direct
connection
to
an
independent
school.
They
express
their
views
with
sincerity
and
strength
of
feeling
and
say
we
got
concerns
about
what
they
felt.
This
change
could
mean
for
their
school.
This
point
I'd
like
to
mention
the
committee
members
visit
to
George
Washington's
College
in
June,
and
to
thank
them
for
hosting
a
discussion
with
representatives
of
the
independent
sector.
C
As
you
can
imagine,
they
put
the
views
across
to
us
forcefully
clearly
and
consciously
and
I
can
tell
the
Parliament.
The
committee
knew
well
at
the
end
up
meeting
where
the
independent
sector
stands.
However,
it's
equally
important
to
be
clear
that
there
was
a
strong
welcome
from
last
proposal,
including
from
councils
this
year,
but
Lee's
view
that
this
change
would
bring
Anna
normally
to
an
end
and
help
level
the
playing
field
between
independent
and
state
schools.
In
the
end,
a
majority
of
the
committee
were
more
persuaded
by
the
latter
point
of
view.
C
The
independent
sector
has
been
around
for
a
long
time
and
has
always
shown
an
ability
to
adapt
to
change
that
saw
last
decade
when
less
parliament
agreed
reforms
to
charity,
or
most
of
us
believe
that
this
is
another
change.
The
sector
will
adapt
to
crusade.
Northa
I
wish
to
expand
on
the
committee's
comment,
no
stage,
one
report
that
the
bow
before
us
as
inevitably
inevitably
piecemeal.
C
This
was
not
intended
in
any
way
as
a
negative
commentary
by
a
simple
reflection
now
of
the
27
Bartley
recommendations,
the
Scottish
government
has
largely
accepted
most
don't
require
legislative
intervention.
This
bill
is
limited
to
those
who
do
so.
We
should
all
take
know
what
that
spell
is
just
one
part
of
a
way
that
I
hope
to
meet
the
Bartley
goal
of
having
a
dating
system.
That's
a
fairer,
more
efficient
and
more
business-friendly.
Much
of
the
evidence
we
received
was
in
fact
about
the
bigger
picture
beyond
the
parameters
of
the
bow.
C
The
committee
agrees
it
that
is
benefit
and
continue
to
be
about
how
well
the
comment
rate
system,
including
its
supporting
architecture
of
release
and
supplements,
reflects
more
than
commercial
realities.
To
pick
one
example,
we
might
ask
where
other
aspects
of
the
rating
system
that
could
be
reengineered
to
address
the
problem
of
struggling
high
streets
and
help
enable
a
town
center
Renaissance.
C
That
is
perhaps
a
discussion
for
another
day,
but
we
should
keep
the
bigger
picture
in
our
sights,
overcoming
once
in
years
as
we
judge
the
effectiveness
of
the
whole
package
of
reforms
that
has
a
mayor's
from
the
Bartlett
view.
So,
given
the
tightness
of
time
today,
presiding
officer,
I
would
just
like
to
finish
by
saying
once
again
that,
for
the
record,
I
wish
to
repeat
the
committee
welcomes
a
bill
and
I
know
look
forward
to
the
rest
of
what
I'm
sure
will
be
a
very
interesting
to
be
both
from
the
members
of
my
committee.
A
D
You,
deputy
presiding
officer
I
feel
I
have
to
stop
by
your
rating.
Some
comments
I
made
this
morning
in
the
chamber
by
the
timing
of
this
debate,
because
we
have
been
left
with
one
hour
and
20
minutes
for
a
stage
one
to
be
was
an
important
piece
of
legislation.
There's
a
large
number
of
people
outside
stakeholders,
businesses,
those
involved
with
independent
schools,
are
very
concerned
about
it
and
I
think
there
is
an
issue
as
a
parliament
we
need
to
address.
The
primary
purpose
of
Parliament
is
to
scrutinize
legislation.
Is
we
are
here
to
make
laws?
D
There
are
many
other
things
we
do
which
are
important,
but
as
not
as
important
as
that.
I
think
Parliament
needs
to
learn
a
lesson
in
terms
of
timetabling
debates
such
as
this
got
that
off
my
chest.
I
want
to
give
a
general
welcome
to
the
non-domestic
rates
bill
in
some
areas.
We
think
it
doesn't
go
far
enough
in
some
areas.
We
have
concerns
about
what
is
being
proposed,
but
overall,
its
measures
are
welcome
and,
as
we've
heard,
the
bill
seeks
to
implement
the
findings
of
the
Berkeley
review
into
non-domestic
rates.
D
Now
it
does
not,
of
course,
implement
all
the
Berkeley
review
recommendations.
For
example,
we
remember
that
Berkeley
recommended
a
change
in
the
tax
treatment
of
arms-length
organizations.
Aliens
were
by
local
authorities,
provide
leisure
and
cultural
services
by
means
of
the
independent
vehicle,
thus
making
a
business
rate
saving
and
the
original
plan
to
remove
this
tax
concession
was
something
the
Scottish
Conservatives
vigorously
opposed
and
I
was
pleased.
D
Last
year
when
the
Scottish
Government
announced
it
would
not
be
proceeding
with
the
introduction
of
what
we
called
the
swim
tax
I'm
very
proud
of
that
particular
slogan,
presiding
officer.
But
there
is
much
in
the
bill
that
we
welcome
and
we
welcome
the
move
from
five-year
to
three-year
revaluations.
One
thing
that
is
supported
by
the
business
community.
D
All
of
us
who
have
had
experience
of
hearing
from
businesses
they
are
concerned
about
the
increases
in
business
rates
set
revaluations
five
years
apart
and
although
there
is
an
appeal
process
in
place,
this
has
led
to
specific
release
having
to
be
introduced
to
deal
with
the
changes.
A
writer
from
revaluation
and
we've
seen
that,
for
example,
in
release
for
the
hospitality
sector
for
premises
in
Aberdeen
and
the
Northeast,
and
the
move
towards
a
three-year
revaluation
schedule
should
help
reduce
the
demand
for
specific
release
in
the
future.
D
Barclays
proposals
for
a
Business
Accelerator,
creating
an
incentive
for
businesses
to
expand
and
removing
the
existing
disincentive
for
speculative
development
by
landlords
is
also
a
positive
step.
It
is
a
relief
intended
to
stimulate
growth
and
investment
and
one
that
we
very
much
welcome,
but
there
are
areas
in
relation
to
the
bill
where
we
still
have
concerns.
D
Firstly,
I
just
mentioned
the
fact
that
the
date
of
the
next
revaluation
is
set
at
2022,
leaving
a
five
year
gap
from
the
last
revaluation
I
think
it's
worth
exploring
at
least
whether
that
next
revaluation
could
be
brought
forward
a
year
to
2021,
which
then
bring
us
into
line
with
the
situation
so
of
the
border
if
technically
possible.
This
is
a
move
that
would
be
welcomed
by
business.
Briefly,
yes,.
A
B
A
D
Sympathetic
to
that
view,
I
think
there
is
interest
in
the
business
community
and
exploring
how
achievable
it
would
be
to
bring
that
day
forward.
The
second
area
of
concern
is
in
relation
to
the
tax
treatment
of
independent
schools.
Now
my
colleague,
Liz
Smith
will
say
more
about
this
later
in
the
debate,
but
it's
what
the
highlight
three
concerns
I
have
about
this
measure.
D
Secondly,
the
office
of
the
Scottish
charity
regulator
have
been
very
clear.
Their
strong
opposition
to
what
is
being
proposed,
stating
in
evidence
to
the
committee
that
they
have
in
this
is
a
quote,
a
long-held
general
concern
that
treating
any
group
of
charities
in
the
differential
is
way
for
tax
or
other
purposes,
as
proposed
by
the
bhakti
review.
And
now
the
bill
introduces
the
potential
for
confusion
in
the
minds
of
the
public
as
to
what
it
means
to
be
a
charity.
D
Vast
area
I
want
to
turn
to
is
in
relation
to
the
large
business
supplement.
The
Barker
review
recommended
that
the
lbs
currently
set,
at
a
rate,
nearly
double
that
south-of-the-border
should
be
may
competitive
for
the
rest
of
the
UK
to
ensure
that
Scotland
is
the
best
place
to
do
business
and
Barclays
recommend
that
the
lbs
be
reduced
in
twenty
twenty
to
twenty
one
or
sooner,
if
affordable,
and
it's
disappointing
that
this
measure
is
not
addressed
in
the
bill
before
us.
D
We
consistently
hear
from
the
business
community
that
it
is
a
major
disincentive
for
businesses
to
invest
in
Scotland.
In
the
parliamentary
written
answer
I
received
last
week,
it
was
revealed
that
there
are
more
than
5,000
retail
businesses
in
Scotland,
paying
the
lbs,
cumulatively
contributing
nearly
14
million
pounds
annually.
This
is
a
tax
payable
on
business
in
Scotland,
not
payable
elsewhere
in
the
UK
and
as
David
Lonsdale
of
the
Scottish
real
retail
consortium
stated
in
the
herald
yesterday,
it
is
a
levy
which
sticks
out
like
a
sore
thumb,
so
I
hope.
D
That
is
something
that
can
be
addressed
either
in
this
bill
or
separately.
So
in
respect
of
these
three
issues,
these
are
problems
with
the
bill
that
we
have
identified.
More
generally,
as
just
I
come
to
the
end
of
my
remarks.
Presiding
officer,
business
rates
do
continue
to
be
a
major
source
of
complaints,
and
it
remains
our
view.
There
should
be
a
broader
look
at
the
business
race
regime
and
business
taxation.
D
More
generally
and
I
was
encouraged
by
the
remarks
of
the
committee
convener
that
perhaps
we
need
to
consider
whether
attacks
based
purely
on
property
values
is
still
appropriate
with
so
much
business
is
conducted
in
cyberspace.
Finally,
presiding
officer,
we
welcome
the
bill
overall,
we
have
some
reservations
about
it,
but
we
will
support
the
bill
at
stage
one
to
allow
it
to
continue
through
the
parliamentary
process
where
we
will
look
to
see
how
it
might
be
improved.
Thank.
E
So
Scottish
Labour
welcomes
the
broad
test
of
this
legislation,
as
it
will
make
the
system
were
effective
and
it's
Theatre
in
terms
of
its
coverage.
However,
we
do
believe
that
the
legislation
is
a
missed
opportunity,
as
it
could
have
delivered
more
to
incentivize
culture
change
and
relate
to
the
challenges
our
businesses
and
communities
are
facing.
The
majority
of
the
provisions
in
the
bill
are
welcomed,
for
example,
the
move
to
three-year
valuations,
removing
charitable
relief
from
independent
schools
and
measures
to
cut
down
on
speculative
appeals.
E
However,
the
details
of
many
of
these
areas
will
be
left
to
government
to
develop
and
implement
after
the
bill
has
passed
and
their
success
will
depend
on
consultation
right
across
government
with
stakeholders
and
joint
working
with
local
authorities
and
in
some
instances
the
government
has
given
itself
too
much
power
and
Scottish
Labour
believes
the
bill
should
be
amended.
It's
teach
to
allow
the
Parliament
discret
in
eyes,
further
actions
taken
on
business
rates.
Furthermore,
we
think
it
represents
a
disappointing
lack
of
ambition
from
the
government.
E
It's
limited
to
the
scope
of
the
Barclays
review,
which
itself
was
too
narrow.
So
there's
a
couple
of
things
I'd
want
to
highlight.
The
bill
should
have
engaged
further
with
the
current
struggles
that
our
high
street
is
facing
and
evidence
from
the
business
community
that
aspects
of
the
rating
system,
doTERRA
growth,
I
particularly
recommend
the
representations
of
the
short
workers
union
Osdol
to
the
minister
and
I
think
they're
worth
taking
on
on
board
Minister
another
area.
A
briefly
active.
B
Just
in
light
of
the
bill
there's
many
things:
we've
already
implemented
from
Barclays,
which
have
supported,
for
example,
the
high
street
that
don't
need
primary
legislation
as
soon
as
the
member
making
the
point
that
there's
further,
we
can
do
I
went
this
legislative
process
or
more
that
we
can
do
that's
actually
required
in
the
law.
I
miss.
A
E
Will
get
I
think
both
I
find
the
Minister
for
our
constructive
intervention.
Another
area
is
the
urgent
need
for
incentives
for
low-carbon
investment.
We
urgently
need
to
see
new
infrastructure
for
local
heat
and
power
schemes
to
create
new
opportunities
for
investment
and
deliver
new,
affordable,
low-carbon
heat
projects.
Last
month,
Glasgow
councillor
Anna
Richardson
made
the
point
that
the
way
district
heating
systems
are
treated
in
the
local
tax
system
acts
as
a
deterrent
to
them
being
used
more
widely.
E
Unfortunately,
she
said
under
present
rules
installing
district
heating
systems
brings
in
significant
new
non-domestic
rates,
and
that
adds
unduly
to
the
cost
of
heating
homes,
and
her
point
is
that
homes
heated
from
a
district
system
are
effectively
penalized.
How
can
that
be
right,
but
we
need
local
carbon
low-carbon
community
networks
that
are
affordable,
that
they're,
a
disincentive
disincentives
which
make
them
uncompetitive
with
the
higher
carbon
technologies,
were
trying
to
move
away
from
a
point
at
the
barclays
review,
race
was
for
an
examination
of
the
effectiveness
of
the
small
business
bonus
scheme.
E
I
understand
that
works
no
be
carried
out
and
it
would
be
helpful
to
know
from
the
minister
when
that's
going
to
be
published.
There
are
key
reforms
that
we
would
support
here
from
Scottish
Labour's
perspective.
I've
already
mentioned
the
property
evaluations
moving
from
five
to
three
years,
increasing
relief
available
to
properties
that
have
undergone
improvement
or
expansion,
reforming
the
appeal
system,
try
and
cut
down
and
speculative
appeals
and
enable
early
resolution
and
removing
charitable
relief
for
most
independent
schools.
These
are
key
measures
that
we
would
support.
E
So
we
need
to
see
clarification
from
the
Scottish
government,
whether
it's
considered
the
amendment
of
reliefs
or
the
small
business
bonus
scheme
to
make
sure
that
we've
got
an
approach
to
prevent
repeat
offenders
acting,
and
we
need
to
see
the
conclusions
of
that.
We
also
want
to
see
the
implementation
of
the
revaluation
cycle
from
five
to
three
years.
E
It's
a
business-friendly
change,
if
implemented
effectively,
could
also
reach
a
reduction
in
the
number
of
speculative
appeals
against
revaluation,
but
a
critical
issue,
I
think
that's
emerged-
is
that
the
benefits
of
this
proposal
will
only
be
realized
if
the
government
has
a
plan
to
address
the
problems
of
recruitment
and
retention
in
the
Assessors
profession,
and
that
evidence
has
come
through
loud
and
clear.
The
evidence
received
by
the
committee
we're
also
supportive
of
reforming
the
appeals
process.
E
The
current
system
is
unsustainable
and
it
leads
to
lengthy
and
resource
staffing
backlogs
that
are
not
in
the
interest
of
ratepayers
or
administrators.
So
we
need
to
see
more
action
to
ensure
that
we've
got
the
staff
to
deliver
these
changes.
The
committee
accepted
that
there's
no
good
reason
in
principle
why
businesses
in
most
public
parks,
she's
continued
to
enjoy
automatic
exemption
from
the
business
receipts
regime,
but
there
are
uncertainties
in
school
about
how
it
will
be
implemented
and
I
think
we
need
to
see
more
clarity
on
that
when
we
reach
stage
two
I've
also
said.
E
E
We
also
want
to
support
the
intentions
behind
section
5,
but
you
seek
to
close
the
loophole
that
enables
some
second
home
owners
to
effectively
avoid
both
council
ant
and
REITs
council
tax
and
rates
and
section
12,
which
seeks
to
mend
the
problem
where
we
have
an
empty
property,
purportedly
be
using
for
a
different
for
a
particular
purpose,
simply
in
order
to
claim
relief.
So
there
is
much
that
we
would
support
here,
but
there's
a
need
for
more
detail
when
we
come
to
stage
2
and
one
issue.
E
I
just
want
to
finish
on
the
discretionary
power
is
aimed
at
granting
relief
to
sports
clubs.
It
is
good
to
see
acknowledgment
of
the
positive
role
of
sports
clubs
in
our
communities,
but
there
needs
to
be
parliamentary
scrutiny
on
the
guidance
the
Scottish
Government
is
intending
to
produce,
given
the
range
of
issues
that
will
need
further
clarity,
I
think
it's
really
crucial
that
stage.
2
is
done
in
the
constructive
way
and
that
ministers
are
able
to
answer
a
lot
of
our
questions,
because
without
that
there'll
be
lots
of
uncertainty
for
business.
A
F
This
I
think
is
a
remarkable
state
of
affairs.
So
the
fact
that
we
have
a
bill
is
welcome,
but
what
is
not
welcomed
is
that
it's
so
narrowly
focused
on
a
series
of
technical
measures
and
leaves
a
vast
number
of
questions
unanswered,
and
it's
worth
briefly
reflecting
and
why
that
is
in
September
2013
Derrick
mark
I.
F
He
was
here
a
few
moments
ago,
then
Minister
for
local
government
planning
published
a
response
to
a
consultation
document
in
which
he
said
the
Scottish
Government
would
and
I
quote,
conduct
a
thorough
and
comprehensive
review
of
the
whole
business
rate
system
by
2017,
which
would
deliver
and
I
quote
a
fairer,
simpler
and
more
efficient
business
rate
system
that
reviewed
never
took
place.
Instead,
we
had
the
Barclays
review
that
asked
one
question
in
its
consultation
and
the
question
was:
how
would
you
redesign
the
business
rate
system
to
better
support
business
and
incentivize
investment?
F
F
And
it's
no
coincidence
that
many
of
the
measures
that
were
made
there
in
the
bill
to
make
up
for
the
lost
yield
were
basically
plucked
from
thin
air
in
a
list
of
reliefs
to
find
where
they
could
get
the
money
to
pay
for
the
reviews.
So
Berkeley
was
not
the
comprehensive
review
that
was
promised
in
2013
that
still
has
to
take
place,
and
it's
in
that
context
that
greens
approached
this
bill
and
I
want
to
outline
our
key
objections
and
proposed
reforms.
Before
concluding
with
a
more
fundamental
objection.
F
Green's
will
be
bringing
amendments
to
stage
two
and
I've
undertaken
a
consultation
this
last
summer
recess
on
them
all
and
I
want
to
say
a
few
things,
a
few
things
about
some
of
them.
Firstly,
members
will
be
aware
that
non-domestic
rates
borrow
local
tax
and
yet
in
1992,
mrs.
Thatcher's
government
removed
council
powers
to
set
the
rate
and
since
then
the
rate
has
been
set
by
a
negative
instrument
with
next
to
no
parliamentary
scrutiny,
so
we'll
be
bringing
forward
amendments
to
return
the
rates
to
the
government
to
whom
they
belong
to
local
government.
F
There
will
be
issues
of
time,
scales
and
all
sorts
in
that
which
we
can
debate
now.
Secondly,
it
is
bizarre
that
we
have
a
tax
base.
That's
incomplete
Berkeley
recommendation
28
was
that
all
property
should
be
on
the
role
and
those
currently
exempt
could
then
be
granted
reliefs,
which
would
increase
transparency
of
the,
for
example,
unjustifiable
tax
breaks
afforded
to
agricultural
holdings,
and
this
is
a
recommendation
that
was
made
as
far
back
as
1976
by
the
Layfield
committee.
F
The
Marelli's
review
in
2011
drew
government's
attention
to
it,
and
the
land
reform
review
group
in
2014
made
a
very
clear
recommendation
on
it.
There
were
over
13,000
new
entries
on
the
valuation
rule
added
in
the
last
two
years
to
cover
shootings
and
deer
forests.
The
vast
majority
of
those
will
be
registered.
Agricultural
holdings
were
well
on
the
way
to
completing
the
rule.
We
should
completely
commit
to
completing
the
task
thoroughly.
F
For
example,
another
reform,
a
non-domestic
rate,
is
currently
a
flat
tax
with
one
rate,
forty
nine
pence
or
thereabouts
I
believe
applicable
to
all
properties.
Regardless
of
the
value
we
propose
and
think
there
should
be
a
progressive
rate
and
with
a
tax-free
allowance
and
a
progressive
rate
just
like
income
taxes,
other
changes
we'll
be
seeking
include,
remove
either
removing
the
exemption.
F
We
also
want
to
reforms
to
stop
multi-billionaires
such
as
Sheikh
bin
Rashid,
Al
Maktoum,
the
ruler
of
Dubai
being
eligible
for
the
so-called
small
business
bonus
scheme,
and
also
to
ensure
that
all
ratepayers
pay
something
eliminating
what
Barclays
called
the
rates
desert
but
presiding
officer.
Just
in
conclusion,
we've
got
one
major
concern.
The
removal
of
this
tax
base
from
the
control
of
its
historic
corners
local
government
is,
in
our
view
of
violation
of
international
law.
F
It's
a
breach
of
article
9
of
the
Council
of
Europe's
European
charity
of
local
self-government,
which
provides
legal
protections
for
the
autonomy
of
the
tax
base
of
the
local
state.
This
cannot
be
allowed
to
be
persistent
because
it
does
so
at
the
moment
anyway.
We
cannot
support
this
bill
that
neither
will
we
stand
in
its
way,
Greens
Lord
sustained
in
the
motionless
evening.
Thank
you.
Thank.
A
G
G
The
business
rate
revaluation,
which
left
many
businesses,
particularly
in
the
hospitality
sector,
facing
massive
increases
up
to
I,
think
a
thousand
percent
in
some
instances
with
no
transition.
Ministers
at
that
state
seemed
largely
unconcerned
door
concerned
enough
to
delay
the
revaluation
and,
as
we
see
in
this
bill
until
2016,
although
in
this
bill
we
see
and
the
imperative
for
having
regular
revaluations.
After
that,
we
had
the
business
rates
incentivisation
scheme,
which
got
off
to
a
fairly
inglorious
start.
G
G
Then
they
went
ahead
and
cancelled
the
scheme
anyway,
and
the
risk
I
think
in
trying
to
fake
localism
is
that
you
create
more
of
a
maze
now
I
would
rather
this
bill
set
about
giving
control
of
business
rates
to
local
authorities
for
many
of
the
reasons
Dundee
Whiteman
said
giving
them
the
opportunity
to
form
meaningful
and
strong
relation
partnerships
with
businesses
in
their
area,
linking
to
the
existing
rules
in
economic
development,
to
business
support
and
to
local
colleges.
Each
authority
would
have
the
clout
to
shape
a
more
successful
local
community.
G
That
approach
would
accept
that
the
same
economic
and
taxation
blueprint
does
not
necessarily
work
in
every
region
of
Scotland,
but
I
accept
that
that
is
not
in
this
film
Scottish
Government
is
also
scrambling
around
to
work
out
how
to
avoid
taxing
people
who
improve
the
properties,
invest
in
machinery,
install
renewable
energy
and
all
of
which
are
inherent
problems
in
the
business
rate
system.
It's
fundamental
that
is
based
on
button
rental
value,
yet.
F
Member
for
taking
invention
this
may
be
a
seem
to
be
a
pedantic
point
for
the
members
persistently
refer
to
business
rates.
I
mean
he
and
I
are
members
of
the
Scottish
parliamentary
corporate
body.
I.
Don't
think
he
regards
us
as
business
people
in
that
respect.
But,
of
course,
this
building
I've
just
looked
up
has
got
a
reachable
value
of
six
million
nine
hundred
and
sixty-five
thousand
pounds.
This
is
the
non-domestic
rating
system.
It
is
a
rating
system
on
the
occupational
value
of
non
domestic
property
and
to
conflate
it
with
the
interest
of
business.
A
G
Happy
to
take
that
reprimand
in
the
spirit
in
which
is
intended
and
I
certainly
bear
the
scars
of
the
of
the
non-domestic
rates
impact
on
this
building.
Having
been
a
member
of
the
corporate
body
for
so
many
years
now,
and
but
this
is
not
tackled,
these
issues
are
not
tackled
in
this
legislation.
That's
why
it's
got
a
little
Democrats
believes
that
a
move
to
a
land
value
system
could
generate
was
economic
advantages
and
government
efficiencies,
if
linked
also
to
reforms
of
council
tax,
but
we
don't
have
a
major
bill
before
us.
G
We
have
a
small
bill
so
including
a
conclusion
can
I
raise
one
of
the
particular
issues
within
it.
It's
got
a
slug
Dems
certainly
hope
that
if
it
progresses
the
bill
will
close
a
loophole
that
allows
second
homeowners
to
declare
themselves
a
business
and
get
rewarded
with
the
government
tax
cut.
We'll
hear
any
is
spoken
strongly
of
the
concerns
and
points
to
the
eastern.
You
could
Fife,
for
example,
that
holiday
rental
owners
are
not
paying
their
fair
share.
G
I
think
some
of
the
consultation
response
is
a
right
when
they
point
to
the
large
burden
that
will
be
placed
on
local
authorities
to
police
the
bill.
As
it's
currently
worked,
those
respondents
suggest
making
changes
to
the
small
business
bonus
instead
in
the
minister,
I
would
hope
would
respond
to
that.
I
also.
I
would
also
like
to
know
how
the
reviews
of
small
business
bonus
and
the
micro
letting
are
going
to
impact
on
the
game.
The
Scottish
Government
is
choosing
one
approach
in
this
bill,
while
embarking
on
two
reviews
of
two
other
approaches.
G
Ministers
aren't
so
much
putting
the
cart
before
the
horse,
but
rather
setting
three
carts,
rolling
downhill
all
of
their
own
accord
and
be
interested
to
learn
what
timetable
the
Scottish
government
thinks
will
be
best
allowed.
Those
three
processes
to
be
considered
together
for
now,
I
wish
the
James
dawn
and
his
colleagues
on
the
committee
all
the
best
for
with
the
stage
2
scrutiny
of
this
film.
Thank
you
thank.
A
H
Thank
you
very
much
presiding
officer.
Firstly,
I
would
like
to
agree
with
William
MacArthur
in
terms
of
the
loophole
and
a
second
homes.
This
bill
were
updates,
Cotton's,
not
a
non-domestic
great
system
and
create
a
more
modern
and
equitable
ratings
structure.
In
terms
of
revenue,
non-domestic
rates
are
the
second
most
important
of
all
tax
behind
income
tax
and
in
2018-19
that
a
accounted
for
two
thousand
eight
hundred
and
forty
seven
million
by
comparison
council
income
tax
income
was
four
hundred
and
eighty
seven
million
less.
H
The
Bartlett
of
you
outlined
thirty
recommendations
intended
to
make
the
rating
system
fairer.
The
reappeared,
experience
better
and
enable
economic
growth
and
I'm
pleased
the
Scottish
Government
accepted
the
majority
of
recommendations,
not
least
three
year
valuations
and
acted
decisively
to
implement
those
which
do
not
require
primary
legislation.
I
believe
the
business
through
a
growth
accelerator
should
be
welcomed
across
the
chamber,
and
the
current
system
and
a
new
property
is
built
on
an
improvement
or
expansion
of
an
existing
property
takes
place.
Variable
value
increases,
given
a
key
business.
H
Objectivist
occur
all
often
by
improving
and
sustaining
their
premises.
An
expansion
to
a
property,
whether
rateable
value
of
fifteen
thousand
and
one
pounds
to
eighteen
thousand
pounds
would
result
in
an
effective
payment
of
rates
at
thought.
To
eight
point:
seven
five
paints
in
the
pound
and
forty
nine
pence
in
the
pound
of
the
rateable
value
is
over
eighteen
thousand
pounds,
so
variable
value
of
15,000
pounds.
Nothing
is
paid
well,
eighteen
thousand
one
pounds
would
be
eight
thousand
eight
hundred
twenty
pounds
and
forty
nine
pence.
H
This
cliff
edge
can
only
inhabit
expansion,
dissuading
owners
from
taking
a
long-term
growth
decisions
due
to
cost
Bartley
also
stated
that
this
penalizes
rate
pier
swimming
environment
on
provements,
for
example,
solar
panels
face
requirements
to
improve
their
problem.
The
quality
improve
the
properties
as
a
lot
of
regulation
or
invest
in
plant
and
machinery
and
well
a
small
business
bonus
scheme
is
not
being
considered
in
this
bill.
H
It's
a
positive
impact
and,
as
a
federation
of
small
businesses
that
repeatedly
said,
savings
businesses
from
all
under
during
the
session
could
be
improved,
allowing
businesses
not
only
to
survive,
but
additionally,
the
demand
for
small
business
premises,
which
benefit
from
the
small
business
bonus,
has
led
to
overheating
in
the
rental
market.
With
regard
to
a
cheaper
properties,
this
incentivizes
companies
to
take
business
away
from
high
streets
where
costs
are
usually
higher.
H
The
business
growth
accelerator
will
invent
incentivize
investment
growth,
introducing
a
12-month
delay
Andrian
creases,
when
an
existing
property
is
expanded
or
improved,
and
entire
new
properties
only
become
liable
for
ease
after
12
months
and
I
would
agree
with
model
Fraser.
It
would
help
if
the
UK
government
would
actually
look
to
tax
online
retailers,
which
would
help
our
turn
centres,
and
indeed
our
short.
The
spell
includes
provisions
for
forming
the
revaluation
appeal
system
to
reduce
speculative
appeals
and
enable
early
resolution
in
2017.
75
percent
of
Appeals
resulted
no
change
to
a
specific
variable
value.
H
Therefore,
I
welcome
the
committee's
conclusion.
The
existing
system
and
sent
advises
appeal
making-
and
this
is
primarily
due
to
the
conscious
of
not
charging
a
fee
for
appeals
and
the
ease
with
which
one
can't
be
lodged
accordingly.
I
believe
that
an
applicant
who
has
initially
been
advised
appeal
has
little
chance
of
success,
should
have
a
fee
imposed
to
mitigate
against
beauty.
Some
appeals
now
independence
skills
with
chart
will
states
entail
80
%,
mandatory
relief
from
non-domestic
rates
and
I'd
leave.
H
With
the
majority
of
the
committee
that
all
independence
skills
should
pay
rates
and
no
longer
be
able
to
claim
charitable
relief.
Not
only
will
they
send
an
unfair
and
unequal
practice
relative
to
state
skills,
generate
more
revenue
for
councils
to
spend
and
local
services
and
I
simply
do
not
accept
the
independent
skills
which
suffer
with
impact
on
fees
being
only
around
1.3
percent
across
the
sector.
Far
less
an
impact
of
recent
teacher
salary
and
pension
changes,
I
believe
that
should
apply
to
the
entire
independent
sector.
H
It's
simply
a
normal
SL
inconsistent
to
exempt
one
music
skill
from
paying
their
race
presenting
off.
So
strong
is
the
most
comprehensive
package
of
rate
solely
from
these
islands,
worth
more
than
750
million
pounds
and
the
year
and
over
90
percent
of
properties,
PL
or
poundage,
compared
with
the
rest
of
the
UK,
their
spells
on
track
to
achieve
a
goal
of
improving
a
non-domestic
rate
system,
health,
big
business,
to
get
all
and
encourage
long
term
investment.
Thank.
I
Thank
You
Anne
can
I
put
on
the
record
that
in
the
past
I've
been
a
governor
of
two
independent
schools.
Can
I
agree
wholeheartedly
with
my
colleague,
murder
freezer,
who,
earlier
in
the
debate,
raised
some
very
serious
concerns
that
we
have
about
the
element
that
affects
independent
schools
within
this
bill
elements
that
we
would
need
to
see
change
before.
We
could
agree
to
it
at
stage.
3
and
I
entirely
agree
with
what
mr.
Whiteman
said
that
there
are
serious
anomalies
about
specialist
music
schools.
I
If
I
can
also
go
to
a
point
that
James
Dornan
mentioned
about
the
2005
legislation.
There
are
members
in
this
chamber
a
deputy
presiding
officer
who,
at
the
time,
believed
that
none
of
the
independent
school
should
have
charitable
status
because
they
felt
that
they
were
elitist
and
therefore
that
should
be
removed.
However,
when
that
legislation
went
through
in
2005,
it
did
so
unanimously
on
account
of
all
parties
in
this
chamber.
I
Agreeing
that
the
evidence
that
have
been
presented
to
the
Parliament
showed
that
the
independent
schools
did
play
a
very
valuable
role,
whether
that
was
measured
in
educational,
social
or
economic
tens,
and
it's
good
to
hear
the
minister
agreeing
with
that.
But
there
was
another
point
about
that:
2005
legislation,
because
the
Parliament
also
agreed
again
unanimously
that
the
charity
tests
should
be
tightened
so
that
all
independent
schools
were
made
much
more
accountable
in
terms
of
the
public
benefit
that
they
offered
and,
crucially
it
much
more
accessible.
I
I
think
that's
a
very
important
point
to
remember,
because
this
is
all
relevant
to
the
debate
about
the
proposals
regarding
the
removal
of
charitable
relief
because
deputy
presiding
officer,
the
fees
in
the
independent
sector
will
unquestionably
rise
by
more
than
has
been
the
current
average
of
an
annual
fee
increase,
thereby
increasing
the
likelihood
that
more
parents
will
be
unable
to
choose
independent
education,
and
this
in
turn
will
mean
that
the
state
sector,
already
very
hard-pressed
when
it
comes
to
resource
provision,
will
be
asked
to
accommodate
more
pupils
and
I.
Think.
I
The
second
part
of
that
equation
is
that,
by
definition,
you
will
actually
cause
the
independent
schools
to
become
more
like
elitist
and
I.
Won't,
if
you
don't
make
it
worse,
who
short
of
time
mr.
Dornan
as
I
mentioned
early.
This
is
surely
the
exact
of
what
this
Parliament
unanimously
decided
in
2005,
and
it
is
actually
the
exact
opposite
of
the
SNP
stated
ambitions
for
education
in
Scotland
and,
of
course
it
would
also
protects
Cotton's,
independent
schools
at
a
competitive
disadvantage
with
England.
I
Similarly,
does
this
Parliament
really
want
to
see
a
situation
whereby
the
availability
of
independent
schools
facilities
is
restricted,
because
these
schools
will
face
much
more
serious
financial
constraints?
Does
it
want
to
see
a
situation
whereby
independent
schools
are
no
longer
quite
so
able
to
offer
assistance
to
state
school
pupils
to
study
subjects
not
in
their
own
curriculum
or
unable
to
support
some
local
primary
schools
with
arts
or
drama
or
sports
provision?
I
Now
may
I
finish
on
the
point
that
there
are
some
really
serious
anomalies
within
this
bill.
I
really,
don't
think
that
the
Scottish
Government
has
thought
them
through,
and
these
will
be
issues
that
we
will
bring
to
stage
two
and
I'm.
Sorry,
they
haven't
been
thought
through,
because
it
is
very
much
evidenced
by
the
fact
that
there
is
no
accurate
assessment
of
the
of
the
of
the
effects
of
all
this,
because
none
have
been
forthcoming
within
the
financial
memorandum.
I
J
Effort
is
too
complex
and
too
difficult
for
the
majority
of
people
to
understand,
then,
is
clear,
my
feeling
and
should
be
challenged,
so
I
do
hope
that
we
will
see
a
cultural
change
that
puts
people
and
the
need
for
people
to
understand
the
process.
At
the
heart
of
revaluation,
the
quote
the
committee,
they
said
and
I
quote.
J
We
also
know
the
widely
shared
view
that
the
more
transparent
and
intelligible
the
revaluation
processes,
the
fewer
appeals
there
will
be,
and
inviting
Scottish
government
to
come
confirm
whether
these
opportunities
as
Abell
continues
through
Parliament,
ensure
the
processes
will
be
more
transparent
and
future,
whether
it's
been
intelligible
or
unintelligible.
Surely
we
need
to
address
this
issue.
My
own
experience
in
dealing
with
businesses
and
faith
has
been.
J
What
would
increases
I'm
pleased,
therefore,
that
the
committee
has
identified
this
point
and
I
look
forward
to
hearing
how
government
intends
to
address
the
what
would
pleasures
which
contribute
to
and
protect
our
retention
challenges
so
moving
to
three
years
as
welcome,
but
the
committee
has
asked
for
additional
pressures
without
P
on
an
already
overstretched
service.
I
also
think
it's
important
to
restate
what
the
committee
see
about
modernized
in
the
system
for
administered
and
the
revaluations
and
appeals
the
committee
sees.
J
We
welcome
the
small
step
thing
so
far
and
about
but
our
discourse
government
to
seize
the
opportunity
to
consider
further
ways
to
streamlining
and
modernizing
the
process.
I
do
hope.
The
Minister
will
pack
up
on
this,
and
indeed
the
many
well
made
points
from
the
Committee
on
the
creation
of
alia
was
a
thing.
J
We
all
welcome
that
they
did
not
proceed
with
the
Bartley
recommendations,
because
the
reality,
the
wit
of
men,
that
there
would
have
been
massive
pressure
on
services
and
indeed
I-
believe
many
cancel
services
that
have
been
currently
arms-length
a
leo's
would
have
collapsed
had
about
the
recommendation
gone
ahead.
However,
the
government
do
need
to
clarify.
Are
the
untraditional
new
policy
where
a
Leo's
been
set
up?
Arms
length
would
not
qualify
for
the
same
relief
as
the
current
ones
do
because
I
know
when
I
was
the
council
leader
and
five.
J
The
pressure
from
many
on
the
education
department
was
to
make
the
cuts
by
making
savings
by
treating
all
the
schools
I
dia
na
leo,
and
we
have
this
last
thought
the
government
recognized
as
a
problem
there,
but
the
need
to
state
clearly
what
that
policy
is
going
to
be
moving
forward
then
gave
local
authorities
a
clear
understanding
that,
once
again,
stress
I
know
that
I
do
apologize
for
being
late
for
the
debate.
I.
A
K
You
presiding
officer
I
welcome
this
legislation,
but
before
commenting
on
detail
on
the
bill
itself,
it's
worth
minding
ourselves
that
under
the
SNP
Scottish
government
Scotland
leads
the
way
on
reach
relief.
Scotland
already
has
the
most
generous
package
of
reliefs
in
the
UK
worth
more
than
750
million
in
2019
20
and
more
than
90
percent
of
properties
here
in
Scotland,
PL
or
parentage
than
other
parts
of
the
UK
this
year.
F
K
I,
don't
know
anything
about
this
gentleman's
property,
so
I
don't
think
it
would
be
appropriate
for
me
to
comment
on
detail
of
someone's
personal
tax
affairs
without
looking
into
it
further,
but
is
certainly
good.
We
and
look
into
it
further
I'm
pleased
that
the
Scottish
Government
has
already
acted
decisively
to
implement
those
Bartley
review
recommendations
which
did
not
require
primary
legislation.
These
include
expanding
Fresh,
Start
relief
to
help
tone
centres,
something
that's
very
important
to
my
constituents
and
the
market
tones
of
South
Scotland.
K
The
bill
reflects
the
bartley
reviews,
recommendations
intended
to
overhaul
and
modernize
ratepayers
experience
of
navigating
the
system,
which
was
judged
to
be
poor
and
also
to
increase
fairness
and,
of
course,
promote
economic
growth.
The
bill
person
plays
ambitious
reforms
to
the
appeal
system,
which
will
improve
decisions
and
build
trust.
The
new
two-stage
appeal
system
will
facilitate
better
and
earlier
information
sharing,
enabling
a
rate
first-time
valuation,
to
reduce
the
number
of
changes
on
appeal
and
build
trust
in
the
system.
K
The
Bartley
report
acknowledged
the
strong
consensus
among
stakeholders
that
three-year
evaluations
would
be
a
better
time
frame
and
I
know
what
the
briefing
for
today's
debate
from
the
shop
buttress,
Union
AHS
door,
which
says
we
believe
that
these
changes
will
ensure
that
the
rate
system
better
reflects
market
trading
conditions
and
provide
a
more
effective
natural
stabilizer
against
psychical
economic
effects,
as
well
as
economic
shocks.
I
want
to
say
a
few
words
about
the
measures
in
the
bill
aimed
at
tackling
tax
avoidance,
with
regards,
in
particular
to
empty
properties.
K
Empty
property
is
one
of
the
biggest
problems
we
face
in
regards
to
both
open
a
noodle,
brutal
regeneration
and
I
therefore
welcome
the
attention
given
to
this
matter,
both
by
Barclays
and
by
the
bill.
For
example,
it
was
suggested
to
the
review
that
our
well-known
avoidance
tactic
to
reduce
a
property's
rates
liability
when
it's
empty
is
to
occupy
only
a
small
part
of
the
property
for
storage.
This
allows
the
owner
to
either
qualify
for
another
relief
or
to
a
new
period
of
empty
property
relief
to
begin
after
a
set
period.
K
Section
12
of
the
bill
deals
with
the
first
of
these
aspects,
and
I
will
watch
closely
to
see
how
this
works
in
practice.
I
understand.
The
second
aspect
will
be
dealt
with
through
subordinate
legislation,
either
way.
It's
important
that
the
council's
use
these
new
powers
to
tackle
scourge
of
empty
property
and
indeed
use
the
powers
they
already
possess
to
deal
with
this
problem.
K
I
know
it
all
so
that
Bartley
recommended
reform
to
restrict
relief
or
listed
buildings
to
a
maximum
of
two
years,
and
the
rates
liability
for
property
that
has
been
empty
for
significant
periods
should
be
increased.
The
consultation
by
the
government
said
that
after
two
years,
relief
should
fall
to
10%
and
a
such
shard
should
apply
after
five
years
from
2020.
This
would
deal
with
a
problem.
K
L
But
we
also
have
to
think
of
the
consequences
that
councils
are
suffering
under
the
government
in
the
reductions
they've
been
receiving
and
we
knew
already
the
168
million
are
in
this.
Financially,
we
alone
has
taken
place.
The
Scottish
Government
is
making
political
choices,
and
we
usually
look
at
the
context
of
that.
When
we
see
this
bill,
many
changes
are
proposed
and,
and
some
of
them
go
far,
but
some
of
them
don't
go
far
enough
and
we
will
address
and
it
will
not
address
some
of
the
chronic
under
spending
that
councillors
have
in
in
this
situation.
L
Scotland
has
one
of
the
lowest
growth
rates
in
of
any
country
in
the
EU
and
and
his
lore
and
employment
weight
than
other
parts
for
the
United
Kingdom.
The
Scottish
employment
rate
at
the
moment
is
much
lower,
and
if
we
had
seen
the
same
rate
in
the
United
Kingdom
across
the
last
ten
financial
years,
that
would
mean
an
excess
of
over
three
hundred
thousand
more
people
would
be
in
work
in
Scotland
today.
That
is
quite
a
staggering
and
sobering
statistic:
JP
presiding
officer
and
thinking
about
our
high
streets.
L
We
we
also
found
that,
when
it
came
to
the
amount
that
was
being
plowed
into
the
rates
situation
that
we
found
that
some
locations
across
the
sector
were
finding
it
really
difficult.
Now
that
was
the
hotel
sector
and
the
hospitality
sector,
and
we
also
know
that
in
the
Renewable
sector
were
also
suffering,
and
we
saw
that
when
we
had
the
situations
in
Aberdeen
and
Aberdeen
shock,
when
the
government
had
to
support
them
presiding
officer
because
they
had
seen
their
rich
bills
double
or
even
triple
or,
as
we've
already
heard
gone
up
by
a
thousand
percent.
L
That's
unsustainable
for
businesses,
if
you
put
in
that
kind
of
situation
and
circumstances,
and
that
needed
to
happen
and
I'm
delighted
that
the
Scottish
Conservatives
or
one
of
the
people
and
groups
who
forced
the
u-turn-
and
we
saw
a
40
million
pound
extended
to
the
hospitality
sector
in
Aberdeen
and
Aberdeen
sure
happy
to
do
so.
Andy.
F
Whelan
I
thank
the
man
for
taken
internationally.
It's
gone
on
at
some
length
about
this
situation
in
Aberdeen
sure
does
he
agree
with
me
that
would
be
far
better
for
Aberdeen
sure
to
have
the
powers
in
Aberdeen
sure
to
have
been
able
to
deal
with
that
problem,
probably
years
before
it
happened,
or
indeed
shortly
after
happened,
rather
than
having
to
come
to
central
government
in
the
national
parliament
to
invoke
a
complex
relief
scheme.
You.
L
You
have
to
balance
the
economy
and
ensure
that
there's
a
a
gross
between
what's
happening
across
the
sector,
so
I
I
hear
what
you're
saying
mr.
Whitman
but
I,
don't
necessarily
with
it
completely.
So,
as
we've
already
said,
we
know
that
the
government
has
looked
at
the
revaluation
and
the
Bartok
review
and
and
I
do
believe
that
one
of
the
biggest
reliefs
that
will
happen
will
be
that
we
will
look
at
this
three
year
rather
than
the
five
year,
and
that
is
is
vitally
important.
L
But
it's
also
disappointing
that,
despite
the
longstanding
promises
of
reform
and
the
business
rates
that
there
is
no
firm
timescale
to
reduce
the
large
business
supplement,
this
makes
it
for
very
much
the
case
for
Scottish
businesses
to
be
uncompetitive
in
the
nasha
not
time
time.
Time
is
pressing.
This
is
something
that
even
the
Deputy
First
Minister
acknowledged
when
he
was
the
finance
secretary
and
he
said
that
the
SME
government
were
committed
to
setting
the
poundage
rate
no
higher
than
that
set
in
England,
but
seven
years
on,
we
still
haven't
caught
up
with
that.
L
It's
commitments
that
are
ringing
hollow.
So
at
some
time,
we've
already
discussed
the
independent
school
sector
and
I
come
from
mid
Scotland
and
Fife,
which
has
a
large
number
of
independent
schools
and
I
echo
the
comments
of
my
colleague,
Liz
Smith,
in
raising
concerns
about
the
proposals
to
remove
the
charitable
relief
and
also
talk
about
the
comparisons.
L
When
we
talk
about
the
state
sector,
it's
simply
misleading
talk
about
that,
because
it's
only
cycling
monies
through
different
parts
of
the
public
sector
so
that
that
in
itself
should
not
be
looked
upon
as
a
an
ear
for
talked
about.
As
my
colleagues
have
also
indicated,
we
will
support
the
general
principles
of
the
bill,
but
we
have.
We
will
see
that
it
is
really
we've
missed
opportunities
here
to
progress
and
make
things
improve.
L
It
feels
to
take
as
Scotland's
business
forward
in
a
competitive
range
and
doesn't
give
us
the
system
that
we
want
so
in
conclusion,
presiding
officer.
We
shall
still
therefore
be
supporting
the
general
principles
of
this
bill
at
this
stage,
but
we'll
be
seeking
to
amend
at
stage
2
and
stage
3.
Thank
you.
N
We
welcome
the
powers
for
Scottish
Ministers
to
introduce
general
anti-avoidance
provisions
for
non-domestic
rates
and,
as
Sarah
buuck
said,
and
as
the
committee
notes,
tax
avoidance,
Croods
public
confidence
in
the
tax
system.
We
need
to
see
tax
as
a
good
thing.
Our
contribution
towards
building
a
better
society
tax
avoidance
has
often
seen
as
something
that
should
be
promoted
and
in
some
instance,
a
tax
evasion
is
also
encouraged.
Kenneth
Gibson
talked
about
in
having
to
deal
with
the
whole
tax
system.
N
When
we
see
large
companies
offer
miniscule
amounts
of
money
in
lieu
of
their
tax
liability
that
devalues
the
whole
of
the
tax
system
and
indeed
encourages
others
to
avoid
paying
the
tax
that
they
are
do.
We
also
agree
with
the
committee
that,
in
with
the
we,
we
also
agree
that
the
change
to
end
the
exemption
for
Main,
Street
and
independence
goals
and
who
claim
aim
charitable
relief
and
as
also
very
welcomed
by
ourselves,
creating
a
level
playing
field
between
state
and
independent
sectors.
N
We'll
also,
as
many
members
said
today
in
let
give
local
authorities
more
funding
along
with
the
committee,
were
not
persuaded
in
that.
There
is
a
case
for
treating
independent
specialists,
music
schools
and
any
differently
from
other
independent
schools
made
in
I
think
I'm
quite
short
of
time.
So
I
will
take
a
very
brief
intervention.
M
N
It
wasn't
when
I
was
there
and
I
can't
sing
a
note,
so
it
may
be
just
as
well
and
I
think
we
will
look
at
a
bringing
forward.
A
amendments
that
help
strengthen
this
part
of
the
bill
and
murderflies
have
talked
about
further
clarity
being
required,
I
own
private
nurseries
and
those
attached
to
independent
schools
and
I.
Think
that
is
something
that
the
government
needed
to
provide.
N
I
Bradley
talked
to
bear
a
loose
aim
and
how
they
were
used
by
Kings
also
often
cash-strapped
to
save
money,
and
we
need
to
ensure
that,
but
doesn't
backfire
on
them
at
a
time
for
the
kinds
of
funding
is
reducing.
A
lot
of
members
talked
about
revaluations
and
have
welcomed
the
changes
to
the
the
revaluation
cycle
from
five
years
to
three
years,
which
will
reduce
the
lag
between
the
date
at
which
the
market
value
was
and
real-time
market
conditions
for
business
premises.
N
Ilyich
rarely
talked
about
simplicity
in
the
system
that
would
lead
to
much
fewer
appeals
if
there
was
better
explanations
as
to
higher
evaluations
were
carried
out,
and
he
also
talked
about
recruitment
and
retention
of
Assessors.
If
there
are
more
the
cycle
is
to
be
reduced,
then
we
need
to
make
sure
we
have
adequate
and
the
system
that
are
going
to
provide
him.
N
The
evaluations
required,
and
that
means
making
sure
that
there
are
people
trained,
but
also
that
we
treat
those
in
carrying
out
this
work
properly
so
that
we
retain
them
there
and
similarly,
with
appeals
and
there's
the
the
chain.
The
reforms
to
the
system
were
welcomed
by
many
speakers.
In
a
Serie
by
accident
conclusion,
presiding
officer,
the
bill
could
have
engaged
further
aim
with
the
current
struggles
on
out
high
street.
It's
also
a
missed
opportunity
to
examine
ideas
for
local
devolution
and
the
scope
of
rates
relief
to
drive
up
and
things
like
environmental
standards.
N
She
told
specifically
about
a
district
heating
systems,
but
also
standards
about
employment
and
things
like
the
real
living
wage.
If
I
can
just
quote
in
party
Alice
of
Osdol
who
says,
the
retail
sector
needs
urgent
action
to
protect
these
essential
jobs,
which
are
a
key
part
of
our
communities.
There's
no
straight
I
am
in
my
last
seconds.
I
think
sorry.
M
O
Thank
You
presiding
officer
kind
of
start
by
echoing
the
initial
comments
of
my
colleague,
murder
of
Fraser,
and
expressed
the
frustration
at
the
truncated
time
given
to
this
debate,
because
you
know
the
there's
not
been
many
members
in
the
chamber,
but
a
lot
of
people
are
interested
in
this.
This
is
a
very
serious
piece
of
legislation
that
affects
a
lot
of
people.
So
I'll
move
on
from
that.
O
Thank
the
committee
clerks
for
their
work
on
the
stage
one
report,
as
well
as
my
fellow
committee
members,
James
dawn
and
Sarah
boy,
I
kinda,
buy
Ewing,
Kenny,
Gibson,
Andy
Whiteman
and
my
good
friend
Alexander
Stewart,
who
of
course
spoke
with
his
usual
passion.
Now
the
rate
system
is
fiendishly
complicated,
archaic,
even
quite
ludicrous
at
times
and
difficult
for
most
people
to
comprehend.
O
As
the
FSB
said
in
evidence
only
about
two-fifths
of
business
owners
believe
they
understand
how
their
rateable
value
is
calculated,
that
the
system
has
been
in
need
of
a
shake-up
for
a
long
time
is
not
in
doubt,
but
this
bill
doesn't
do
that.
It's
a
missed
opportunity,
true
to
form
the
government
set
up
a
review,
and
that
means
they
can
blame
someone
else.
B
B
O
He
was
told
about:
what's
the
books,
that's
the
fact,
and
it
was
my
view
that
that
led
to
this
recommendation
now
much
of
the
bill
is
not
controversial.
Much
of
it's
not
controversial,
it's
sensible,
even
and
I'm
glad
the
cabinet
secretary
is
enjoying
that
contribution.
No,
perhaps
later
perhaps
later
there
are.
There
are
some
good
ideas:
changing
revalue,
Asians
from
every
five
to
three
years,
reforming
the
appeal
system,
reforms
to
close
tax
avoidance
tactic
for
those
who
own
holiday
homes,
which
can
be
used
to
avoid
paying
any
local
tax
on
the
property.
O
The
introduction
of
the
business
growth
accelerator,
which
would
reduce
the
rates
bills
of
growing
firms
and
making
those
conducting
commercial
activities
in
parks
liable
to
pay
business
rates,
but
nothing
about
dealing
with
the
large
business
supplement
which,
as
murder
Fraser,
pointed
out
those
businesses
in
Scotland.
Yes,
every.
O
We
took
evidence
and
we
visited
an
independent
school
george
watsons
in
edinburgh,
but
interesting
as
it
was
the
die
was
cast
before
anyone
had
contacted
us
before
we'd
heard
a
word
before
we'd
stepped
across
george
watsons,
impressive
portal
parties
have
positions,
and
some
people
just
don't
like
the
idea
of
parents
having
the
choice
to
pay
for
their
children's
education.
I'd
prefer
to
go
with
the
evidence,
and
it
was
overwhelmingly
this.
The
independent
schools
are
charities
that
all
charities
benefit
from
rates
reductions
and
that
to
meddle
with
our
arrangement
is
meddling
with
charity
law.
O
How
can
you
attack
section
of
the
charity
sector
without
looking
at
the
whole
sector?
This
is
a
policy
born
out
of
prejudice
and
spite
now
the
SMP
haven't
gone
quite
as
far
as
labor,
with
their
aim
of
abolishing
all
independent
schools.
But
this
is
the
thin
end
of
the
wedge.
Now
it
didn't
know
a
great
deal
about
the
independent
school
sector
before
scrutinizing
this
bill.
O
O
It's
not
a
fabulously,
wealthy
institution
from
what
I
could
see
many
of
the
facilities
Lag
way
behind
those
in
the
state
sector,
elitist
it
is
not,
and
it
takes
its
charitable
status
very
seriously,
not
to
avoid
paying
some
rate,
but
as
a
mission
it
rents
out
its
facilities.
It
has
a
swimming
pool
that
swimming
icon,
michael
jameson
uses
for
his
swimming
academy.
Michael
jameson
is
elite,
but
he's
not
elitist.
Do
we
really
want
to
put
that
type
of
endeavor
at
risk?
The
charity
regulator
Oscar
made
some
damning
comments.
We've
heard
about
them
already
so.
O
Finally,
on
schools,
there
was
the
proposal
to
make
one
exception:
specialist
music
schools
and
there's
only
one
in
the
sector
sant
Mary's
in
Edinburgh.
There
really
was
no
logic
to
this
and
I
wonder
what
or
who
lay
behind
it.
We're
going
to
see
amendments
at
stage
two.
We
are
open
to
ideas.
We
will
work
with
other
parties
and
outside
organizations
to
improve
this
bill
and
we'll
even
work
with
the
minister.
If
she's
willing
to
be
flexible.
B
Officer
and
I
would
like
to
applaud
and
thank
the
members
that
have
defended
the
timescale
given
to
this
critically
important
debate
and
obviously,
as
somebody
who's
been
heavily
involved
with
a
bill.
The
more
time
given
to
it.
The
better
in
terms
of
the
points
having
raised,
have
been
quite
a
number
of
points
and
I'll
try
my
best
to
get
through
them,
but
there's
always
an
open
invitation
to
other
parties
to
discuss
any
element
of
it
in
advance
of
stage
two
amendments.
B
So
to
start
with
a
James
Doran
and
as
convener
of
the
committee
and
his
point
around
either
the
broad
welcome
to
three
yearly
cycles.
I
think
that
in
itself
will
resolve
a
lot
of
the
challenges
that
we
see
in
the
appeals
system.
Now,
of
course,
James
darkness
point
and
Alex
Reilly's
point.
We
do
need
to
make
sure
that
a
we
solve
the
appeals
challenges
but
that,
secondly,
we
ensure
Assessors
are
as
well
supported
as
possible.
That's
of
course
why
we
include
a
two
point:
five
million
pounds
in
this
year's
budget,
which
went
directly
to
Assessors.
B
That
was
the
figure
they
identified
as
the
support
they
needed
this
year
and
they
welcomed
that
now.
A
number
of
other
points,
a
murder
Fraser
mentioned
the
the
to
date
and
that
some
of
the
business
and
desire
to
see
the
tone
date
in
line
with
the
rest
of
the
UK.
Now
there
are
questions
around
that
tone
date
for
the
rest
of
the
UK
because
of
the
purgation
of
parliament
of
I.
Think
that
bill
is
now
back
in
play
to
set
the
one
date
at
2021.
But
Assessors
were
clear
with
us.
B
I
think
they
were
clear
with
the
committee
as
well,
which
is
if
we
want
to
deliver
the
the
bulk
of
the
the
Barclays
recommendations
and
get
it
right
than
we
do
need
that
time.
Skills
now
on
two
independent
schools,
which,
as
I
expected,
has
not
been
a
controversy
free
area
of
discussion,
I'm
good
to
see
again,
as
I
said
in
my
opening
remarks,
that
this
is
not
about
charity
law.
B
B
Was
included
in
the
business
that
they're
in
the
Bri
up
at
to
that
point,
I
will
respond
because
I
find
it
difficult
to
accept
that
the
magnitude
of
change
which
has
been
identified
would
be
sufficient
to
lead
to
a
mass
exodus
of
pupils.
So
in
terms
of
the
impact
of
our
proof
and
the
impact
of
our
proposals
are
equivalent
equivalent
to
by
1.3
percent
increase
of
current
average
fees
that,
as
a
small
comparison,
small
increase
compared
to
the
average
yearly
fee
increase
of
4
percent.
B
And
that's
why
in
the
Bria
and
that's
why
the
financial
memorandum
is
as
it
is,
because
we
do
not
believe
that
this
policy
change
will
result
in
a
max
exodus
of
people's
to
the
public
sector
and
in
terms
of
the
potential
movement.
Some
of
the
calculations
that
have
been
flying
around
in
terms
of
the
maths
uses
an
average
cost
of
a
school
people
when,
of
course
it
should
be
the
marginal
cost
and
the
majority
of
cases.
The
marginal
cost
of
a
pupil
moving
from
the
independent
sector
to
the
state
sector
would
be
zero.
B
So,
even
if
3%
of
people's
were
to
transfer,
we
do
not
accept
the
suggestion
that
that
would
leave
the
policy
revenue
neutral.
So
the
financial
impact
has
been
considered
through
the
RIA
in
terms
of
moving
on
to
other
points
that
were
raised,
Surabaya
talked
about
the
importance
of
guidance.
I
would
agree
with
her
on
that
point.
I
will
endeavor
to
provide
as
much
detail
as
possible
to
the
committee
to
scrutinize,
and
that
will
of
course,
start
with
the
commitment
I've
made
around
providing
details
on
illustrative
appeals.
B
M
F
Ey
one
particular
intervention:
I
don't
want
to
sound
like
a
stuck
record,
but
of
course
the
minister
represents
a
constituency
that
contains
tens
of
thousands
of
acres
of
land
owned
by
the
aforementioned
Sheikh
bin
Rashid
Al
Maktoum,
and
the
richest
one
of
the
richest
men
in
the
world
who
is
eligible
for
small-business
bonus
scheme?
Notwithstanding
the
review
that's
coming
forward,
does
she
agree
that
it's
utterly
ridiculous
to
exempt
some
of
the
richest
people
in
the
world
from
paying
a
modest
contribution
to
halen
counsel?
Mr.
kief
Oh,
incidentally,.
B
B
That's
why
it's
been
contracted
out
to
an
independent
organization
to
look
at
its
effectiveness
and
I,
look
forward
to
receiving
the
recommendations
and
then
implementing
the
recommendations
that
we
think
are
appropriate
now,
moving
on
in,
in
light
of
time,
there's
been
some
talk
of
a
devolution
and,
of
course
we
have
made
moves
to
devolve
elements
of
non-domestic
rates
to
local
authorities,
including
their
empty
property,
M
relief.
But
it
is
worth
reflecting
on
Kosmas
official
comments
that
were
given
to
the
committee
during
oral
evidence.
B
They
welcomed
the
commitments
made
by
the
Scottish
Government
during
the
last
budget
budget
bill
to
look
at
developing
a
fiscal
framework.
They
indicated
that
causeless
view
is
that
non-domestic
rates
should
be
part
of
the
discussion
around
local
fiscal
empowerment.
It
should
help
how
to
help
shape
a
wider,
more
far-reaching
transfer
of
powers,
but
they
also
accepted
that
we
have
started
that
process
and
that
is
good.
But
I
look
forward
to
the
other
recommendations
that
come
forward
from
the
Greens,
all
of
which
I
will
consider
and
Lia
MacArthur
mentioned.
B
The
interaction
with
regulation
on
short-term
lacks
two
very
different
pieces
of
work
and
I.
Think
it's
important
that
we
don't
complete.
They
might
help
support,
reach
us
a
shared
outcome
and
a
particular
outcome
on
short
term.
Let's.
But
the
issue
of
taxation
is
very
different
from
the
issue
of
regulation
and
I
want
to
close
we're.
June
McHale
pain
focused
her
remarks.
She
commented
on
the
current
non-domestic
rates
regime.
B
She
identified
that
in
Scotland
we
have
the
most
generous
rates
relief
package
anywhere
in
the
UK
and
the
over
90
percent
of
properties,
PE
Laura
poundage
than
in
the
rest
of
the
UK
this
year,
and
that
indicates
the
value
and
the
truthfulness
of
the
comments
I
made
at
the
outside
that
the
government
firmly
believes
a
strong
economy
with
a
growing
competitive
and
an
innovative
business
and
community
is
essential
to
supporting
jobs.
Income
and
our
quality
of
life,
this
bill
helps
us
to
get
closer
to
that
ambition.
M
Thank
you
very
much.
That
concludes
stage.
One
debate
on
non-domestic
Reid
Scotland
build
the
next
item
of
business
is
consideration
of
motion.
192
69
on
a
financial
resolution.
Could
I
ask
Derek
Makai
to
move
this
motion.
Thank
you.
The
next
item
is
consideration
of
business
motion
196
in
the
name
of
Grimm
D.
On
behalf,
the
primacy
buda
was
setting
out
a
revision
to
business
on
Wednesday
the
6th
November
click
column
day.
To
move
this
move.
M
You
very
much
no
members
asked
to
speak
on
this
motion.
Can
I
put
the
question
there
for
that
the
motion
196
be
agreed.
Are
we
all
agreed?
We
are
agreed?
Thank
you.
So
we
turn
to
decision
time.
There
are
three
questions
today.
The
first
question
is
that
motion
one
9tt,
five
in
the
name
of
Michael
Matheson
on
the
Transport
Scotland
bill
it
staged
VB,
agreed
RL
agreed
we're
not
at
read.
You
will
move
to
a
vote,
a
membership
cast
their
votes.
M
M
M
The
result
of
the
vote
on
motion
196
in
the
name
of
Kate
Forbes
is
yes
97.
There
were
no
votes
against.
There
were
six
abstentions.
The
motion
is
therefore
agreed,
and
the
final
question
is
that
motion
1
9
2
6
9
in
the
near
of
Derek
I
on
non-domestic
rates,
Scotland
bill
financial
resolution
be
agreed.
Are
we
all
agreed
irrelevant?