►
Description
Ministerial Statement: Report on Coronavirus Legislation
B
A
Again
remind
members
that
social
distancing
measures
are
in
place
in
the
chamber
and
across
the
campus.
Please
take
care
to
observe
these
measures
over
the
course
of
this
afternoon's
business,
including
when
entering
and
exiting
the
chamber.
The
next
item
of
business
is
a
statement
by
michael
russell
on
his
report
on
coronavirus
legislation.
The
cabinet
secretary
will
take
questions
at
the
end
of
his
statement,
and
so
there
should
be
no
interventions
or
interruptions,
and
I
call
on
michael
russell.
C
Thank
you,
presiding
officer,
presiding
officer,
since
my
statement
in
this
chamber
on
our
second
report
on
the
11th
of
august.
Additional
measures
intended
to
bring
covet
19
back
under
control
as
we
enter
winter,
have
come
into
force.
The
measures
in
the
uk
coronavirus
act
and
the
two
scottish
acts
continue
to
be
an
important
part
of
our
response
to
the
continuing
significant
public
health
risk
and
economic
challenges
posed
by
the
pandemic.
C
In
addition
to
the
reporting
requirements
under
the
legislation,
we
have
also
reported
in
more
detail
on
22
provisions,
which
we
have
judged
to
be
of
most
significant
impact
and
interest.
We've
also
reported
on
a
total
of
49
ssis,
where
the
main
purpose
relates
to
coronavirus,
as
required
under
section
14
of
the
second
scottish
act.
C
This
includes
additional
funding
of
4.25
million
for
organizations
working
on
the
front
line
across
scotland
to
allow
services
to
be
upscaled
in
the
report.
We
have
also
included
information
on
rights
and
equality
impacts.
This
is
key
to
ensuring
that
human
rights
are
respected,
protected
and
fulfilled,
and
equality
objectives
are
achieved.
C
This
approach
to
extension,
suspension
and
expiry
of
provisions
in
the
scottish
acts
is
proportionate
and
appropriate
to
the
scale
of
the
ongoing
risks
posed
by
the
coronavirus
and
reflects
our
commitment
that
provisions
would
not
remain
in
place
unless
necessary.
Let
me
now,
however,
turn
to
the
provisions
of
the
uk
coronavirus
act,
as
required
by
the
uk
act.
The
house
of
commons
undertook
a
review
of
its
non-devolved
provisions
after
six
months
of
operation
on
the
30th
of
september.
The
motion
that
the
temporary
provisions
of
the
coronavirus
act
should
not
yet
expire
was
approved.
C
The
devolved
provisions
in
the
uk
act
were
not
in
scope
of
that
six
months
review,
but
the
scottish
government
has,
in
our
third
report,
provided
information
on
the
operation
and
status
of
those
provisions.
This
will
provide
this
parliament
with
the
opportunity
to
scrutinize
the
judgments
we
have
made
and
to
express
its
view.
C
I
and
my
ministerial
colleagues
have
answered
questions
on
the
scottish
government's
approach
to
our
equivalent
provisions
in
this
chamber
and
in
committee,
and
our
third
report
confirms
our
view
that
these
provisions
continue
to
be
necessary,
whilst
the
equivalent
scottish
provisions
have
not
been
commenced.
They
are
designed
to
ensure
a
person
continues
to
have
access
to
the
right
level
of
care
and
treatment
when
they
are
unwell.
C
Should
the
workforce
come
under
severe
pressure,
the
short
life
mental
health
legislation,
commencement
consideration
group
have
been
a
vital
source
of
information
and
intelligence
about
the
impact
of
covid19
on
the
operation
of
the
mental
health
care
and
treatment.
Scotland
act
2003,
both
in
the
form
of
formal
data
collected
by
the
relevant
organizations
to
the
more
informal
evidence
of
the
views
of
members
and
practitioners.
C
The
group
recognizes
that
the
mental
health
impacts
of
this
pandemic
and
associated
lockdown
restrictions
may
not
be
felt
in
full
for
some
months.
They
remain
of
the
view
that
it
is
appropriate
to
retain
these
provisions
on
the
statute
book,
as
it
would
not
be
prudent
to
leave
our
services
vulnerable,
given
the
potential
for
a
second
wave
of
covet
19
and
the
approaching
winter
flu
season.
C
C
I
can,
however,
today
confirm
that
the
scottish
government
does
now
intend
to
bring
forward
regulations
to
suspend
the
provisions
in
section
16
of
the
uk.
Act
relating
to
social
care
needs
assessments
as
they
apply
to
adult
services.
This
follows
a
further
survey
of
the
extent
of
the
operation
at
a
local
level
of
the
powers.
This
has
yet
again
demonstrated
that
few
local
authorities
have
needed
to
use
these
powers.
However,
there
are
concerns
that
demands
for
children's
services
in
particular
may
increase
these
powers
as
they
apply
to
children's
services,
are
therefore
not
being
proposed
for
suspension.
C
The
report
demonstrates
that
accountability
continues
to
be
integral
to
our
efforts
to
suppress
the
virus,
and
this
two
monthly
reporting
process
continues
to
be
a
key
part
of
aiding
transparency
in
how
the
powers
have
been
used.
But
I
want
to
turn
to
the
issue
raised
by
a
number
of
members
about
an
enhanced
role
for
parliament
in
scrutinizing
coronavirus
regulations.
C
C
There
can
be
no
doubt
about
our
commitment
to
be
accountable
to
parliament,
but
we
do
wish
to
respond
to
the
calls
for
enhanced
scrutiny,
presiding
officer.
I've
therefore,
today
written
to
you
to
the
party
leaders
and
to
the
conveners
group
asking
for
nominees
to
attend
a
meeting,
hopefully
this
week
to
work
in
collaboration
to
develop
options
for
what
kind
of
enhanced
scrutiny
arrangements
we
can
develop.
C
We
need
to
be
radical
in
developing
a
procedure
to
reflect
the
reality
that
public
health
interventions
often
have
to
be
brought
into
force
at
great
pace.
Also,
when
the
time
comes
to
remove
restrictions,
we'll
want
to
remove
them
from
our
fellow
citizens
at
the
earliest
possible
opportunity,
we
must
recognize
we
are
dealing
with
a
public
health
emergency.
C
We
must
have
the
ability
to
act
without
delay
when
the
clinical
advice
indicates
that
urgent
interventions
are
required.
Indeed,
the
changes
announced
by
the
uk
government
acknowledge
this
important
point
and
I'll
now
take
this
work
forward
urgently
with
the
parliament
and
those
nominated
by
the
parties,
presiding
officer.
Let
me
conclude
by
noting
that,
as
is
required
by
section
15
of
the
first
scottish
act
in
section
12
of
the
second
scottish
act,
scottish
ministers
have
conducted
a
review
of
the
provisions
in
part
one
of
these
acts
and
have
prepared
this
report.
C
C
Scottish
ministers
are
also
satisfied
that
the
status
of
these
statutory
instruments
at
the
end
of
the
reporting
period
is
appropriate.
A
review
has
also
been
conducted
of
the
provisions
of
the
uk
act,
for
which
the
scottish
parliament
gave
consent,
and
we
are
satisfied
that
the
status
of
those
provisions
is
appropriate
and
presiding
officer.
We
welcome
the
opportunity
of
engagement
with
the
parliament,
as
it
considers
its
third
report.
A
Thank
you
very
much.
The
cabinet
secretary
will
now
take
questions
on
the
issues
raised
in
this
statement.
I
intend
to
allow
around
20
minutes
for
questions,
after
which
we
will
move
on
to
the
next
item
of
business.
It
would
be
helpful
if
members
who
wish
to
ask
a
question
were
to
press
their
request
to
speak
button
or
to
press
r
in
the
chat
function
now,
and
I
call
donald
cameron.
D
D
These
reports,
however,
provide
an
opportunity
to
take
a
broader
view
on
issues
that
have
arisen
under
the
legislation
during
the
pandemic,
and
these
benches
are
particularly
pleased
to
see
the
emphasis
on
human
rights,
given
the
fact
that
emergency
measures
have
a
significant
impact
on
individuals,
liberty
can
I
ask
him
about
parliamentary
scrutiny.
We
now
have
a
debate
and
vote
on
covet
restrictions
on
thursday,
and
I
acknowledge
he
is
here
today
and
has
appeared
as
have
other
of
his
colleagues
before
committees
and
in
the
chamber
many
times.
C
Thank
you,
presiding
officer.
I
think
I've
indicated
in
my
statement
that
I
wish
to
see
that
system
changed
and
that's
why
I've
made
the
proposal
to
ask
people
to
come
together
and
do
so,
but
the
parameters
for
changing
that
system
have
to
be
understood,
and
I've
made
the
point
too
very
openly
in
the
statement
that,
when
you're
dealing
with
public
health
emergencies,
some
of
the
procedures
we
have
for
dealing
with
secondary
legislation
are
inappropriate.
C
Essentially,
the
choice
lies
between
presiding
officers.
You
will
know,
as
a
committee
convener
as
well
the
negative
instrument,
a
an
affirmative
instrument,
a
super
affirmative
instrument
and
a
made
affirmative
instrument.
Now
all
of
those
have
their
own
timetable
and
the
timetable
does
not
suit
a
legislative
regulations
that
have
to
be
made
very
quickly.
Can
we
find
another
way
of
doing?
This
is
the
question
that
I've
asked
I?
I
am
sympathetic
to
that.
That
point
has
been
raised
by
a
number
of
members
in
this
chamber.
It
has
been
raised
at
committee.
C
I
think
when
I
appear
at
the
mr
cameron's
committee
tomorrow,
I
think
it'll
be
the
11th
occasion
in
which
I
have
been
at
that
committee
and
if
we
can
find
a
better
way
to
do
it,
then
I'm
very
happy
to
find
that
better
way.
But
he
takes
a
particular
remember
takes
a
particular
lesson
from
where
we
are
now.
C
Let
me
suggest
another
lesson
that
we
have
a
considerable
distance
to
go
to
ensure
that
this
virus
is
defeated
in
scotland
and
we
must,
in
the
interest
of
all
our
fellow
citizens,
use
every
tool
available
to
us.
So
I
believe
we
can
make
changes
that
will
be
appropriate
and
helpful,
and
I
hope
that
the
other
parties
and
the
parliament
will
help
the
government
do
that.
E
Thank
you,
presiding
officer.
I
also
thank
the
cabinet
secretary
for
advancing
of
his
statement
and
welcome
his
response
to
calls
forward
enhanced
scrutiny,
because
the
public
want
to
understand
the
reasons
behind
these
powers
and
restrictions,
how
their
effectiveness
is
actually
evaluated
and
what
the
evidence
is
based
for
them.
E
As
case
numbers,
sadly,
are
now
going
in
their
own
direction
and
inconsistencies
and
guidance
and
regulations
taking
the
recent
outcome
over
restrictions
on
baby
and
toddler
classes,
as
one
example
leads
to
more
questions
about
how
effective
restrictions
are
and
have
been
in
actually
stopping
the
spread
of
the
virus.
Many
families
have
also
been
affected
by
the
heartbreaking
limits
on
attendance
at
funerals,
for
example,
whereas
other
areas
of
society
have
seemingly
opened
up
now,
it
seems
we're
going
backwards
and
we're
facing
even
further
harsh
restrictions.
E
So,
can
I
ask
the
the
cabinet
secretary
on
the
eve
of
these
apparent
further
restrictions?
Can
he
say
more
about
how
the
government
is
actually
evaluating
the
evidence
base
for
these
restrictions
and
how
can
the
public
and
we
welcome
the
parliamentary
scrutiny,
but
how
can
the
public
expect
to
be
kept
informed?
C
Can
I
just
caution
the
member,
I
think,
to
question
on
the
basis
of
what
she
the
word
she
uses
apparent
changes.
I
think
we
should
wait
to
hear
what
the
first
minister
has
to
say
and
I
don't
think
we
should
speculate
upon
that
speculation
is
no
doubt
appropriate
for
the
media.
I
don't
think
it's
appropriate
in
the
chamber,
given
we
do
not
know
now.
On
the
on
the
substance
of
the
the
question,
I
just
have
to
say
that
I'm
sorry,
she
didn't
specifically
welcome
something
for
which
she
might
be.
C
I've
been
able
to
take
some
of
the
credit,
which
was
the
section
16
of
the
uk
act,
which
we've
listened
to
the
member
and
to
others
about
that
section,
and
we
have
taken
action
about
it
and
I
pay
credit
to
the
member.
She
has
questioned
me.
I
think
twice
or
three
times
about
that
section,
and
it
is
important
that
we
recognize
that
progress
being
made
in
terms
of
information.
Nobody
could
say
there
was
a
shortage
of
published
information
on
the
issue
of
coronavirus.
There
is
a
vast
amount
of
information,
probably
too
much
information.
C
The
regulations
are
clearly
set
out.
The
material
on
the
websites
is
clearly
set
out.
The
first
minister
answers
in
detail,
including
information
on
the
scientific
background
every
day
and
still
does
so,
despite
attempt
by
some
to
to
stop
her
doing
so
that
she
is
accompanied
very
often
by,
for
example,
the
clinical
director
of
the
national
health
service,
sometimes
by
the
chief
medical
officer
and
by
others,
there's
a
great
deal
of
information,
but
we
also
have
a
role
to
play.
C
Each
of
us
has
a
role
to
play,
and
that
is
to
make
sure
we
are
familiar
with
the
information
and
the
science
which
we
can
do
and
then
make
sure
we
explain
that
carefully
to
people
so
that
they
understand
what
the
situation
is.
Nobody
is
being
asked
to
do
anything
except
to
take
the
actions
which
we
genuinely
believed,
and
the
first
minister
genuinely
believes,
will
save
lives
and
will
take
us
through
this
as
safely
as
possible.
F
Thank
you,
presiding
officer
members,
understand
that
often
changes
need
to
be
made
at
short
notice
in
order
to
respond
to
a
rapidly
changing
situation.
I
welcome
the
update
the
cabinet
secretary
provided
in
discussions
with
the
parliament
on
how
further
scrutiny
can
be
enabled
to
happen
at
an
earlier
stage
wherever
possible.
When
does
the
cabinet
secretary
expect
the
first
meeting
to
take
place
and
as
their
scope
for
engagement
to
continue
over
recess,
so
that
processes
are
in
place
when
parliament
resumes.
C
Government
secretary
well,
besides,
obviously
I'm
not
going
anywhere,
so
I'm
very
happy
to
have
as
much
engagement
as
we
can
possibly
have.
I
have
suggested
to
my
office
today
to
once
the
party
leaders
have
responded
that
we
try
and
arrange
a
a
virtual
meeting
this
week.
These
meetings
will
be
virtual
meetings.
We
try
and
arrange
a
virtual
meeting
this
week.
I
know
that
my
officials
have
already
informally
engaged
with
the
parliament
and
we
will
look
for
ideas
from
the
parties
and
the
parliament
and
we
will
bring
ideas
to
the
table
ourselves.
C
I
hope
we
could
come
to
an
early
agreement
about
how
we
might
do
this,
even
in
interim,
so
that
we
can
then
get
on
with
the
active
with
enhanced
scrutiny.
But
the
member
is
absolutely
right
to
say
we
must
remember
these
are
regulations
for
a
public
health
emergency
and
therefore
urgency
is
what
underpins
them,
and
we
must
therefore
make
sure
that
urgency
goes
alongside
scrutiny
and
one
does
not
trump.
The
other.
G
Thank
you,
deputy
presiding
officer.
The
statement
indicates
that
the
short
life
mental
health
legislation
may
not
have
been
utilized
to
any
great
extent,
but
the
scottish
government
intends
to
retain
said
provisions
as
a
quote.
It
may
leave
services
vulnerable
if
there
is
indeed
a
second
wave
of
covert
19..
G
However,
surely
this
service
is
not
one
that
will
be
required
at
short
notice,
that
the
shortness
of
the
cabinet
secretary
indicates,
and
it
would
be
perfectly
feasible
to
suspend
this
part
of
the
legislation
and
bring
it
back
if
the
parliament,
if
the
parliament
requires
the
scottish
government,
should
only
retain
those
powers
and
we'll
need
to
act
on
with
any
speed?
And
I
wonder
if
the
camera
secretary
could
comment
cabinet.
C
Well,
I'm
aware
this
is
a
difficult
area,
but
I
don't
see
much
difference
between
suspending
it
and
actually
not
not
not
not
operating
it
and
it
has
not
been
operated,
but
we,
the
this
decision,
is
not
made,
as
my
statement
indicates
by
ministers
alone,
the
short
life
mental
health
legislation,
commencement
consideration
group
looks
at
this
issue.
It
consists
of
people
from
the
mental
welfare
commission,
the
president
of
the
royal
college
of
psychiatrists,
somebody
from
the
mental
health
tribunal
for
scotland,
somebody
from
the
scottish
courts
and
tribunal
service,
social
work,
scotland.
C
There
is
considerable
expertise
around
that
table
and
the
view
of
that
group
as
recently
as
september,
the
9th
when
they
last
met,
was
that
this
should
remain
on
the
statute
book,
but
it
has,
it
has
not
yet
been
used
and
we
hope
will
not
be
used,
but
I
think
to
go
through
the
rigmarole
of
taking
it
off
and
bringing
it
back
on
would
not
be
desirable.
I
think
it
would
be.
We
can
talk
about
this
in
terms
of
enhanced
scrutiny.
C
C
H
Presiding
officer
in
the
cabinet
secretary's
last
statement
on
coronavirus
legislation.
He
outlined
actions
taken
to
account
for
the
nature
and
number
of
incidents
of
domestic
abuse
occurring
during
the
reporting
period
and
asked
the
cabinet
secretary
to
outline
how
this
work
has
informed
the
government's
consideration
of
the
emergency
legislation
since
the
last
reporting
period.
Please.
C
Government
secretary,
yes,
I'm
grateful
to
those
members
who
who
very
strongly
supported
this
move,
and
I
think
pauline
mcneill
was
instrumental
in
bringing
it
to
the
chamber,
but
others
supported
it
very
strongly.
Indeed,
I
think
what
it
has
done
is
concentrated
minds
on
the
fact
that
this
was
not
only
something
we
feared
might
happen,
but
is
actually
happening,
and
therefore
the
interventions
and
I've
indicated
that
my
report
have
been
stepped
up,
including
resource
made
available.
C
In
these
circumstances,
I
think
that
will
continue
those
who
have
a
there's
been
increased
funding
of
4.25
million
for
organizations
working
on
the
front
line
to
allow
services
to
be
upscaled,
and
this
is
kept
under
constant
review.
So
this
is
an
area
where
there's
been
a
pretty
quick
feedback.
I
think
it
is
also
an
area
that
does
influence
decision
making
on
what
lies
next,
because
we
have
to
recognize
that
this
appears
to
be.
C
I
Thank
you,
presiding
officer.
Can
I
welcome
the
reference
by
the
cabinet
secretary
of
the
importance
of
children's
rights
in
a
statement.
Can
he
therefore
confirm
whether
there
will
be
an
updated
children's
rights
and
well-being
impact
assessment,
given
the
concerns
expressed
by
both
bernardo's
and
the
children,
young
people's
commissioner
about
the
impact
of
the
pandemic
in
children's
rights?
From
my
own
case
work,
I
am
conscious
of
the
impact
of
the
loss
of
access
to
certain
local
services
on
children
and
young
people's
well-being
and
mental
health.
C
J
Thanks
can
I
welcome
cabinet
secretary
statement
in
particular's
comments
about
enhanced
scrutiny
and
I
think
it's
important
we're
not
just
looking
back
but
we're
looking
forward
events
that
are
foreseeable,
such
as
christmas.
You
know
winter
demand
on
the
nhs,
but
in
scrutinizing
the
whole
picture.
Does
the
cabinet
secretary
agree
that
we
need
oversight
on
those
aspects
which
are
outside
of
the
regulations,
such
as
the
government's
testing
strategy,
which
may
nevertheless
have
a
strong
bearing
on
the
regulations
themselves.
C
K
You
very
much
deputy
presiding
officer,
I'm
very
glad.
The
government
have
agreed
to
stand
down
powers
under
section
16,
but
ask
that
he
reconsidered
is
supplying
them
for
children.
The
conservative
government
at
westminster
have
recognized
that
mental
health
regulations
under
section
10
are
no
longer
needed.
The
pressure
on
the
health
services
will
never
be
such
that
we
need
to
dispense
with
the
important
safeguards
of
a
second
qualified
mental
health
professional
signing
off
on
a
detention
order.
C
No,
I
seem
to
recall
a
very
similar
question
from
the
member
during
the
last
report,
and
I
pointed
out
to
him
that
you
know
great
admirers.
I
am
of
mr
cole
hamilton
on
many
of
the
things
he
does.
When
I
look
for
advice
on
mental
health
and
legislation.
I
look
to
the
president
of
the
royal
college
of
psychiatrists
before
I
look
to
mr
hamilton,
which
I
would
think
is
a
fair
judgment
to
make.
In
these
circumstances.
I've
explained
to
mr
whittle
and
I
think
it's
not
an
not
an
unhelpful
explanation.
C
He
indicated
as
a
reasonable
man.
He
was
accepting
that
explanation.
I'm
sorry,
mr
cole
hamilton
isn't
accepting
it.
I
think
there
could
be
a
discussion.
I
think
there
should
be
a
discussion
as
to
whether
the
powers
here
would
be
used
and
before
they
were
used.
There
should
be
that
discussion
and
I'm
quite
happy
to
take
that
away.
But
if
the
short
knife,
mental
health
legislation
commencement
consideration
group
makes
the
recommendation,
I
think
it
would.
I
would
be
likely
to
be
massively
criticized
by
mr
cole
hamilton
and
others
where
not
to
pay
attention
to
it.
L
Thank
you
beside
officer.
We
know,
we've
heard
some
questions
already
today
that
this
emergency
legislation
is
wide-ranging
and
the
provisions
affect
a
wide
variety
of
policy
areas.
Can
the
cabinet
secretary
provide
details
as
to
how
the
scottish
government
arrives
the
decision
as
to
which
provisions
will
be
renewed
and
which
will
expire.
C
C
Discussions
take
place
with
stakeholders,
it
is
a
wide-ranging
process
and
so
far
we've
been
able
to
suspend
or
withdraw
a
number
of
provisions.
We
hope
to
be
able
to
continue
to
do
so,
but
we
are
also
faced
with
what
the
member
sees.
What
this
chamber
sees,
which
is.
There
is
a
resurgence
of
cases.
There
is
evidence
of
the
it
spread
into
older
age
groups.
There
is
obviously
from
today's
figures,
an
increase
in
hospitalization
there's
an
increase
in
in
in
people
going
into
icu.
So
we
need
to
look
at
the
provisions.
C
We've
gotten
say
if
we
needed
these
six
months
ago,
might
we
still
need
them,
and
if
the
answer
is
yes,
then
we
need
to
think
very
carefully
about
what
we
do
next.
So
this
is
also
part
of
the
process.
This
discussion,
the
fact
that
mr
cameron's
covenant
committee
will
consider
this
report
and
I
shall
be
there.
I
hope,
no
doubt
to
answer
questions
on
this
report
and
the
process
will
continue
and
then
we
will
be
back
here
within
two
months
continuing
to
do
it.
M
Thank
you,
deputy
officer,
the
cabinet
secretary
states
that,
in
his
statement
that
the
scottish
government's
provision
in
the
uk
act
relating
to
mental
health
remain
necessary.
Are
there
any
further
provisions?
The
scottish
government
is
considering
for
mental
health
which
it
might
have
to
take
and
what
would
be
the
trigger
to
do
so
cabinet
sector.
C
Mr
corey's
question
is:
is
is
very
appropriate.
It
is
not
possible
for
us
to
add
things
to
this
legislation.
All
we
can
do
is
subtract
things
from
this
legislation,
so
there
are
no
new
moves
that
we
could
take
in
this
legislation.
Whether
there
are
things
that
could
be
done
by
regulation
would
be
a
moot
point.
I
think,
in
terms
of
mental
health
actions,
we
would
be
reluctant
to
take
regulator
secondary
legislation
for
those
purposes.
N
Thank
you,
president
officer
cabinet
secretary,
can
I
ask
how
the
scottish
government
balances
keeping
us
safe
while
allowing
individual
freedom
when
reaching
their
decisions?
Many
people
have
had
to
cancel
holidays
over
the
last
months
and
possibly
many
more
tomorrow,
as
this
virus
is
not
going
away
anytime
soon.
How
can
we
move
forward
and
not
constantly
go
into
lockdown
that
only
suppresses
the
virus
but
doesn't
eradicate
it.
C
Again,
I
just
want
to
caution
the
members,
as
I
cautioned
another
member
not
to
speculate
on
what
may
or
may
not
be
happening.
I
think
the
first
minister
was
very
clear
at
her
briefing
today.
She
did.
She
said
it
was
not
a
lockdown.
You
know
she
was
not
anticipating
a
lockdown.
So
let's
be
very
clear
about
the
language
we
we
used.
The
member
is
right
about
balance.
C
There
is
a
constant
balance
to
be
struck
and
that
balance
is
complex
and
it
becomes
more
complex
as
time
goes
on,
because
after
six
and
a
half
seven
months,
things
have
changed
people.
You
are
weary.
We
are
all
weary.
All
of
us
want
to
protect
lives.
All
of
us
want
to
help
our
fellow
citizens,
but
equally
we
are
concerned
about
damage
being
done
to
our
businesses,
to
our
friends,
businesses
as
constituency
members
to
our
constituency.
C
I
have
a
constituency,
for
example,
that
you
know,
has
many
islands
in
it
and
a
great
deal
of
tourism,
and
I
do
not
wish
to
see
any
further
damage.
There's
been
considerable
damage
done
and
I
want
to
mitigate
that
possible.
So
all
those
matters
are
born
in
mind,
and
you
know
the
first
minister
indicated
that
the
cabinet
met
this
morning
for
a
lengthy
discussion
of
of
where
we
are
now
and
there's
considerable
discussion.
C
The
first
minister
talks
constantly
to
her
advisors
to
read,
reads:
listens
we
all
do,
but
in
the
end
decisions
have
to
be
made
and
when
decisions
are
made-
and
I
hope
the
chamber
will
be
part
of
the
process
and
the
committees
will
be
part
of
the
process
of
thinking
this
through.
Sometimes,
decisions
have
to
be
made,
have
to
be
made
quickly
and
have
to
be
implemented
quickly
if
we
are
to
make
a
difference,
and
that,
of
course
is
is
a
hard
thing
and
it's
a
responsibility
that
the
government
has
to
take.
B
B
We've
had
a
back
and
forth
on
the
so-called
circuit
breaker,
and
I
think
it
is
important
the
government
said
to
the
outset
of
this
virus
that
we
should
treat
the
public
as
grown-ups,
particularly
if
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we
keep
up
compliance
and
maintain
public
support
for
the
actions
of
this
parliament
and
of
this
government.
I
also
welcome
what
he
says
about
added
scrutiny.
I
know
that's
conversation
that
him
and
I
have
had
from
right
at
the
start
of
this
pandemic
and
I
think
more
scrutiny
would
be
welcome.
B
C
As
ever
without
a
server,
I
agree
with
a
great
deal
of
what
he
said
and
I
disagree
with
some
bits
of
what
he
said.
So
let
me
try
and
get
the
agreement
bit
through.
First
of
all,
I
do
think
we
need
to
have
more
scrutiny.
We've
made
that
clear.
I
want
mr
starbar
and
others
to
understand,
as
I'm
sure
he
does,
the
real
need
to
act
urgently
and
the
need
to
make
sure
things
are
done,
and
you
can't
hang
about.
C
But
equally,
I
understand
and
very
much
understand
that
we
should
try
and
develop
something
new,
because
we
need
a
new
procedure
for
this
there's
no
existing
procedure
in
this
parliament.
That
would
allow
this
to
happen.
We
need
a
new
procedure
and
that
shouldn't
be
beyond
us
to
make
sure
that
we
can
do
things
well
and
properly
on
the
disagreement,
but
I
mean
I
do
think
that
we
would
go
into
semantics
here,
there's
a
difference
between
discussion
and
speculation
that
he
used.
C
The
word
discussion,
you
know
if,
if
a
minister
is
asked
a
question
and
wants
to
inform
people
and
answers
that
question,
that's
not
necessarily
speculation.
What
I'm
just
discouraging
is
that
jumping
perhaps
I
should
refine
my
words
as
I
know
mr
sarwer
likes
precision
in
languages.
In
all
things,
I
think
what
I'm
asking
people
to
do
is
not
to
jump
to
conclusions
about
what's
taking
place
but
to
remain
open-minded
and
I'm
sure,
like
every
member
of
this
chamber,
he
will
be
open-minded
final.
O
Thank
you,
presiding
officer,
a
cabinet
secretary.
In
your
statement,
you
mentioned
seven
core
principles
and
one
of
which
is
dignity,
which
is
very
important,
but
particularly
important
to
older
people.
They
can
therefore
ask
what
engagement
will
be
undertaken
with
organizations
and
groups
supporting
older
people
on
the
impact
of
this
legislation.
C
I
know
that
the
health
secretary,
for
example,
is
in
regular
contact
with
organizations
and
individuals
representing
relatives
of
those
in
the
care
home
sector,
for
example,
and
making
sure
that
we're
listening
and
understanding
the
very,
very,
very
difficult
situation
that
many
people
are
faced
faced
with
and
how
they
respond.
To
that
sander
white
knows
the
commitment
of
the
scottish
government
to
as
much
consultation
and
discussion
as
possible
that
will
apply
to
this
area
as
every
area.