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From YouTube: Ministerial Statement: Delivering Social Security for Scotland’s People - 19 September 2017
Description
Read the full transcript of the Ministerial Statement in the Scottish Parliament Official Report: https://goo.gl/cTMKkL
A
B
Thank
You
presiding
officer
today,
I
want
to
set
out
more
detail
on
how
we
will
deliver
new
powers
over
social
security
for
people
in
Scotland,
including
what
people
can
expect
from
Scotland's
new
social
security
agency
and
how
we
came
to
the
decision
on
its
configuration.
I
will
also
provide
an
update
to
members
on
our
progress
to
abolish
the
bedroom
tax
at
source
and
delivering
choice
in
universal
credit
on
rent
payment,
director
landlords
and
twice
monthly
payment.
B
I
was
delighted
to
be
with
the
First
Minister
yesterday
when
she
announced
the
agency's
headquarters
will
be
in
Dundee
with
a
second
major
site
in
Glasgow,
but
as
I
announced
in
April,
our
new
agency
will
offer
a
local
presence
across
Scotland,
supported
by
these
efficient,
essential
functions
throughout
the
consultation
and
since
the
importance
of
that
local
presence
that
human
face
has
been
consistently
expressed.
It
is
this
local
aspect
that
marks
a
key
difference
between
our
agency
and
what
currently
exists
for
the
agency.
B
B
We
will
not
compromise
the
level
of
service
we
require
and
expect,
and
for
which
we
will
be
accountable.
It
will
always
be
our
agency
staff
meeting
and
helping
individuals,
not
private
companies.
People
will
always
be
treated
with
dignity
and
respect,
and
we
will
always
meet
the
expectations
of
the
Charter
that
we
are
developing
with
the
people
of
Scotland.
That
is
both
our
ambition
and
our
expectation,
presiding
officer.
Let
me
know
describe
what
the
service
might
look
like
to
those
we
are
serving.
We
know
the
increasing
benefit.
B
B
If
a
person
is
looking
to
apply
for
a
benefit,
we
will
support
them
to
complete
the
forms
and
advise
on
the
evidence
needed
to
support
their
application
and
where
a
person
is
already
receiving
benefits,
they
will
be
able
to
get
face
to
face
advice
on
their
payments
on
notifying
the
agency
of
a
change
in
their
circumstances
on
other
benefits
they
may
be
entitled
to
or
in
making
a
complaint
where
their
expectations
have
not
been
met.
Above
all,
our
service
will
be
proactive,
positive
and
geared
to
helping
the
individual.
B
In
their
particular
circumstances,
the
agency's
local
presence
will
be
supported
by
vital
central
functions
like
case
handling,
payment
systems,
contact
staff
and
the
corporate
roles
that
any
efficient
public
body
needs.
We
have
followed
a
robust
multi
criteria,
assessment
process
in
keeping
with
our
evidential
approach
to
designing
the
Social
Security
system
in
determining
the
two
locations
announced.
Dundee
will
be
the
agency
headquarters,
supporting
regeneration
in
that
area
and
demonstrating
our
commitment
that
key
public
services
are
not
restricted
to
the
central
belt.
B
Glasgow
will
be
a
main
administrative
site
in
the
West
of
Scotland,
offering
equal
service
capacity
and
capability
and
ensuring
the
agency
can
deliver
continuity,
and
it's
crucial
services,
as
members
will
see
in
the
evidence
published
today,
each
part
of
the
country
was
assessed
against
a
variety
of
socio-economic
factors.
We
have
considered
the
scale
of
economic
opportunity
that
over
1500
jobs
can
generate
plus
the
scale
of
risk
to
business
continuity.
If
we
were
to
choose
a
single
site,
the
sensible
decision
was
to
have
two
major
locations
of
similar
scale.
B
Dundee
and
Glasgow
both
performed
very
well
against
the
criteria
and
will
benefit
from
the
ability
to
attract
staff
from
a
wide
catchment
area,
thus
spreading
the
economic
benefit
that
new
jobs
will
bring,
but
presiding
officer.
These
central
functions
will
not
be
hidden
away
in
an
industrial
estate
or
a
business
park
out
of
reach
to
those
whom
they
are
there
to
support.
We
will,
of
course,
seek
efficiency
and
effectiveness
in
line
with
our
social
security
principles,
but
these
two
locations
were
also
formed
part
of
our
local
network.
B
They
too
will
be
public
facing
open,
welcomed
and
accessible
presiding
officer.
We've
already
been
clear:
the
agency
staff
right
across
Scotland
will
be
present
and
that
the
economic
benefit
from
this
new
public
service
will
be
spread.
I've
spoken
previously
about
at
least
1500
staff
being
required
in
those
two
locations.
As
we
move
closer
to
the
delivery
of
the
first
devolve
benefits,
we
are
clearer
on
the
likely
human
resource
required.
I
can
therefore
confirm
that
we
expect
to
Social
Security
Agency
to
be
employing
around
250
staff
by
summer
2019
to
2018
to
deliver
our
first
benefits.
B
Kailas
allowance
supplement
our
best
start
grant
and
funeral
expenses
assistance
in
addition
to
the
central
functions.
We
also
estimate
that
at
least
400
additional
jobs
will
be
created
for
the
locally
based
Agency
presence.
This
number
will
be
refined
as
we
continue
to
work
to
design
the
service
with
local
authorities
and
others,
but
it
illustrates
the
scale
of
our
commitment
to
local
delivery.
B
We
recognize
this
guy
of
endeavor
involved
in
stuffing
up
an
organization
of
this
size,
so
we
will
therefore
work
with
local
colleges,
employability,
services
and
other
partners
to
ensure
that
we
have
the
right
supply
of
people
to
work
in
our
agency
before
concluding
presiding
officer,
I
want
to
update
members
on
our
work
to
abolish
the
bedroom
tax.
I'm
sure
members
will
recall
there
are
absolute
commitment
to
abolish
the
tax,
had
accounted
some
difficulties
prior
to
the
summer
recess.
B
I
met
with
ministers
from
the
DWP
last
week
and
I'm
happy
to
report
substantial
progress
in
that
we
now
have
an
agreed
proposal
that
will
fully
mitigate
the
bedroom
tax.
We
thought
funding
being
clawed
back
or
the
support
that
we
provide
to
those
to
whom
the
tax
applies
being
limited
by
the
operation
of
the
UK
government's
benefit.
Cap
I
hope
to
be
in
a
position
to
bring
forward
an
amendment
at
stage
two
of
the
Social
Security
bill
to
provide
full
legal
cover
for
the
technical
solution.
B
I
also
want
to
update
members
on
the
work
we
have
been
doing
on
universal
credit
flexibilities
that
will
be
delivered
by
the
DWP
on
our
behalf.
From
the
fourth
of
October
this
year,
the
flexibilities
will
offer
people
in
Scotland
a
choice
to
have
their
housing
cost
paid
directly
to
their
landlord
and
to
have
twice
monthly
payments.
B
It
is
first
and
last
about
a
public
service
that
exemplifies
our
founding
principles
of
dignity,
fairness
and
respect
in
her
works
as
an
organization
how
it
works
for
those
who
need
that
support
and
how
it
cooperates
with
its
partners
across
our
public
sector.
I
want
us
to
be
clearly
at
the
opposite
end
of
the
spectrum
from
the
existing
DWP
system
of
distrust,
misery
and
despair.
B
A
C
You
presenting
often
I
thank
the
Minister
for
early
site
of
her
statement,
and
that
is
a
Glasgow
MSP
I'm,
of
course,
particularly
pleased
about
the
Glasgow
news.
I'm
also
very
pleased
with
the
report
that
she
gave
to
the
chamber
a
few
minutes
ago
about
the
update
of
the
work
of
the
joint
ministerial
working
group
on
welfare,
which
has
delivered
further
progress
on
joint
government
working
in
the
smooth
delivery
of
devolved
welfare.
What
Scott's
want
to
see
is
their
two
comments,
working
together
and
I'm
very
pleased
that
the
Minister
was
able
to
report
on
that.
C
A
few
minutes
ago.
Can
I
ask
the
minister
two
sets
of
questions
both
of
which
she's
been
asked
before
and
both
of
which
I
think
continued
to
bother
opposition
MSPs
from
across
the
chamber
about
the
delivery
of
Social
Security
for
Social
Security,
first
about
jobs
and
then
about
costs.
How
many
of
the
1,500
jobs
that
the
Minister
talked
about
in
her
statement
are
new
and
how
many
are
replacement
jobs
for
people
already
in
employment
at
DWP
and
how
many
of
the
250
jobs
that
she
says
will
be
in
place
by
the
summer
of
2019?
C
Are
new
and
how
many
of
them
are
replacement
jobs
for
positions
that
already
exist
in
the
DWP
and
how
many
of
the
400
locally
based
jobs
that
she
talked
about
in
her
statement
are
new
and
how
many
are
replacement
jobs,
I,
hope.
Those
questions
are
sufficiently
clear
to
get
a
clear
answer.
Secondly,
about
costs
and
I
asked
the
minister
about
this
in
general
questions
last
week
and
I
wasn't
satisfied
with
the
answer
with
respect
so
I'm
going
to
have
another
go
and
see
if
I
can
get
a
little
bit
more
detail
on
this.
C
The
financial
memorandum
accompanying
the
very
important
social
security
bill
that
the
minister
introduced
in
June
and
that
the
Social
Security
Committee
is
now
considering
includes.
Then
it
a
cost
that
the
IT
provision
within
the
Social
Security
Agency,
about
which
the
minister
has
given
a
statement
today,
will
be
190
million
pounds.
The
Auditor
General
last
Thursday
morning
told
the
Social
Security
Committee
that
she
was
not
in
a
position
to
assure
the
committee
about
the
robustness
of
that
figure.
B
You
okay,
I'm,
going
to
do
my
best
and
to
answer
all
of
mr.
Tompkins
questions
and
I'm
grateful
to
him
for
those
parts
of
the
statement
that
he
welcomed
in
terms
of
jobs.
How
many
are
new
and
how
many
are
replacement
jobs.
At
the
moment
we
are
working
through
exactly
the
detail
of
each
of
those
1,500
jobs.
How
many
people
do
we
need,
for
example,
in
terms
of
case
management?
B
How
many
do
we
need
in
terms
of
the
payment
system
of
document
handling
and
so
on,
as
we
do
that,
and
we
do
that
in
consultation
with
PCs,
in
our
agency
partnership
program
and
with
others,
we
will
be
able
to
identify
from
there
whether
any
or
some
of
those
jobs
that
we
require
our
jobs
currently
done
in
Scotland
by
the
DWP
on
the
benefits
that
will
be
devolved
to
us.
So
I
do
not
have
an
exact
number
for
you.
Mr.
B
Tompkins,
my
expectation
is
that
a
small
number
may
well
be
existing
DWP
jobs
in
Scotland
administering
or
dealing
with
the
benefits
that
we
will
be
responsible
for,
but
it
will
be
a
small
number,
because
the
bulk
of
that
work
in
the
DWP
is
conducted
south
of
the
border.
So
I
will
be
able,
as
we
move
through
that
exercise,
to
advise
you
of
exactly
what
I
think
the
split
will
be
and,
of
course,
where
there
are
jobs
that
are
comparable
to
jobs
being
done
by
DWP
staff
in
Scotland.
B
Right
now
on
any
one
of
those
11
benefits
there.
We
will
of
course
apply
to
apply
comply
with
the
public
sector
version
of
QP,
and
my
apologies
again
to
members
of
the
chamber.
I
clearly
have
a
mental
block
about
what
that
is,
but
I'm
sure
members
know
what
I'm
talking
about.
On
the
the
250
jobs
that
I
said,
we
would
have
working
or
staff
that
we
will
have
working
in
order
to
deliver
the
first
phase,
and
it
is
indeed
by
summer
2019
and
incrementally
recruited.
B
There
are
2019,
that's
2019,
incremental
ii
recruited
in
total,
as
we
build
it.
30
of
those
jobs
currently
exist
inside
the
social
security
Directorate.
There
are
individuals
who
were
recruited
to
begin
that
work.
For
us,
these
are
all
new
jobs,
and
my
expectation
is
that
all
or
if
not
all,
almost
all,
of
those
250
jobs
will
be
new
in
order
to
deliver
those
new
benefits.
But
again,
as
we
clarify
what
the
DWP
does
in
terms
of
jobs,
I
will
be
able
to
advise
mr.
B
They
are
new
local
social
security
staff
based
in
local
authorities
across
Scotland
and
DWP
currently
has
no
comparable
jobs
in
that
area.
Now
on
I.t
course.
Let
me
start
by
reminding
members
and
mr.
Tompkins
of
one
of
the
key
lessons
from
audit
Scotland
in
terms
of
how
to
create
an
IT
system
to
support
any
major
project
on
any
immediate
public
service
and
and
I
need
to
say
clearly
that,
for
me,
the
IT,
the
IT
is
a
supporting
part
of
the
infrastructure.
It's
not
the
driver.
B
It
is
a
supporting
part
of
the
infrastructure
to
deliver
on
what
is
the
driver,
which
is
social
security
policy,
that
rates
me
system
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
One
of
the
clear
lessons
was:
don't
build
it
all
at
once,
take
it
in
chunks,
manageable
chunks
and
build
flexibility
into
that,
which
is
precisely
how
we
are
building
the
IT
system,
the
infrastructure
to
support
our
overall
delivery
of
Social
Security.
B
Tompkins
I
know
will
have
read
the
finance
memorandum
in
great
detail,
so
he
will
know
that
that
190
million
carries
a
number
of
caveats
in
order
to
be
sure
that
we
all
understand
what
we're
saying
and
those
caveats
detail
the
assumptions
that
are
made
in
reaching
that
198
million
figure
and
what
what
we
did
was
because
we
were
building
it
chunk
by
chunk.
There
knew
determined
the
course,
as
you
go
trunk
by
trunk,
but
at
this
point
we
need
a
finance
memorandum
for
a
bill.
B
So
we
looked
with
our
digital
in-house
experts
in
sage
Scottish
government.
What
would
you
need
for
a
that
social
security
system
in
the
round?
What
would
you
need,
in
terms
of
case
management,
verification,
documentation,
handling?
What
kind
of
IT
would
you
need
and
then
used?
The
costs
have
been
incurred
previously
in
various
projects.
B
Look
to
find
some
clear,
analytical
basis
to
judge
those
and
come
with
a
figure
and
on
the
basis
of
all
of
that
190
million,
but,
as
we
were
clear,
I
think
it
Finance
Committee,
but
certainly,
let
me
be
clear,
know
that
figure
itself
will
be
really
faint
as
we
go
through
the
IT
build,
and
my
officials
I
understand
have
offered,
or
very
shortly
will
offer
Finance
Committee
the
opportunity
to
hear
in
more
detail
how
we
are
going
about
that
IT
build,
but
I
hope.
Overall.
That
gives
mr.
B
Tompkins
a
bit
more
detail
and
certainly
a
bit
more
assurance
that
we
are
approaching
this
in
a
soundly
based
a
robust
way,
bearing
in
mind
that
we
are
taking
at
all
step
by
step
and
those
need
to
be
the
caveat
side.
Under
the
assumptions
we've
made
are
very
clear
in
the
finance
memorandum,
and
the
approach
we're
taking
I
think
is
one
that
is
sensible
and
sound.
Thank.
A
D
D
B
As
we
get
to
through
that
process,
then
I
will
take
a
view
on
what
I
think
would
be
government
appropriate
government
amendments
at
stage
two
or
amendments
that
may
come
forward,
that
we
think
the
government
would
be
able
to
support.
So
at
this
point,
I'm
not
saying
yes
and
I'm,
not
saying
no
in
terms
of
split
payments,
the
member
is
absolutely
right.
I'm,
conscious
of
the
work
that
Northern
Ireland
is
doing,
I
think
he
and
I
have
discussed
before
I've
certainly
discussed
with
his
Colleen
McNeil,
some
of
the
complexities
around
actually
delivering
this.
A
E
You
very
much
no
sir.
Can
the
minister
provide
more
detail
on
what
level
of
jobs
she
expects
to
be
available
in
both
Glasgow
and
indeed,
and
we
should
do
that-
those
who
have
lived
experience
of
the
current
system,
Trenton
example
there's
taken
part
and
the
experience
panels
should
be
encouraged
to
apply
for
some
of
these
jobs.
Minister.
B
Thank
you
very
much
of
service
that
those
two
locations
will
be
providing
to
social
security
as
a
whole
is
case,
management,
case
handling,
decision-making
document,
verification,
identity,
verification,
payment
systems,
themselves,
corporate
governance,
appeals
and
so
on.
So
those
are
the
jobs
that
flow
from
that
in
terms
of
who
applies.
I
am
a
firm
believer
in
as
diverse
a
workforce,
as
we
can
possibly
manage.
B
F
The
minister
agree
with
me,
however:
I
would
face
him.
The
new
agency
is,
it
will
not
be
independent
of
the
state
and
that
new
clearance
will
still
require
independent
advice.
On
occasions
will
she
commit
to
funding
those
organizations
that
give
her
independent
advice
and
will
she
also
give
a
commitment
to
make
sure
that
is
in
the
bill,
but
with
a
strategy
vitae
for
independent
advice,
where
appropriate,
Nessa.
A
B
Well,
the
Social
Security
Agency
is
an
agency
of
government,
so
I
guess.
In
that
sense
it
is
an
independent
of
the
state,
curious
phrase
in
terms
of
advocacy
and
advice.
I
have
long
accepted
the
importance
of
that
I'm
not
prepared
in
making
this
statement
today
in
this
chamber,
presiding
officer
to
preempt
the
proper
scrutiny
of
our
bill,
as
it
goes
through
the
committee
stage
and
commit
as
I
wasn't
to
mr.
Griffin.
There
I'm
not
prepared
to
commit
to
funding
or
to
any
other
matter
in
terms
of
the
bill,
I
think
the
due
process.
B
The
proper
process
for
me,
as
a
responsible
government
minister
to
take,
is
to
listen
to
the
evidence
that
comes
before
the
committee
to
continue
my
discussions
with
stakeholders
to
hear
what
my
experience
panels
are
telling
me
and
then
to
form
a
view
on
what
makes
the
right
decisions
for
government
in
terms
of
either
other
additional
amendments
or
accepting
amendments
that
we
come
from
other
parties,
and
that
is
precisely
what
I'll
do.
George.
G
A
B
Thank
mr.
Adams,
so,
as
members
will
recall,
I
said
that
our
officials
who
are
currently
working
with
local
authorities
and
other
local
partners
to
identify
what
is
the
right
model
in
each
local
authority
area,
accepting
that
there
will
be
difference
between
local
authority
areas
across
the
country.
The
end
results
and
the
quality
of
service
and
the
consistency
of
coach
will
be
the
same,
but
the
model
may
be
different.
B
So
what
we
are
looking
to
do
is
have
in
some
early
areas
test
models
so
that
in
place
by
2018,
19
so
in
place
in
terms
of
our
first
delivery
of
our
first
benefit.
The
carers
supplement
so
that
we
begin
begin
to
test
how
those
models
may
work
and
how
effective
the
art
and
working
alongside
other
partners,
and
then
we
will
roll
those
out
across
the
country
as
appropriate.
So
the
date
mr.
Adams
is
looking
for
is
2018
19.
B
B
I
need
all
of
us
to
take
a
wee
step
back
and
recognize
that
that
prism
is
precisely
what
that
is
and
therefore,
whilst
we
might
argue
very
forcefully
about
the
need
for
significant
levels
of
advocacy
in
the
current
UK
system,
particularly
around
appeals,
particularly
around
disability,
benefits
our
approach
and
our
intent
in
how
we
will
change
that
system,
how
we
will
make
better
decisions.
First
time
remove
the
private
sector
from
Health
face
to
face
health
assessments
and
reduce
significantly
the
numbers
of
them.
I
think
alters
how
we
might
view
some
of
these
other
matters.
I
You
thank
the
Minister
for
airlie
sight
of
her
statement
and
apologize
for
missing
the
opening
in
the
chamber,
and
does
the
minister
agree
that
we
need
to
have
a
statutory
right
to
income
maximization
support
and
that
the
Social
Security
bill
would
be
the
place
to
do
this,
and
does
the
government
intend
to
use
powers
under
Section
35
of
the
social
security
bill
to
provide
payments
without
an
application?
Thank
you,
sir.
B
So
I
think
I
missed.
The
last
part
can
I
just
check
if
the
member
asked
if
it
was
payments
without
applications,
I'm
not
quite
sure
what
the
member
might
be.
Referring
to
there
and
I'm
perfectly
happy
to
discuss
that
with
her
offline
as
it
as
it
were
in
terms
of
income
maximization,
then
I
do
accept
the
absolute
importance
of
that
I
note
that
local
authorities
have
a
role
in
in
this
too
and
in
order
to
ensure
that
were
not
willy-nilly
handing
out
statutory
requirements.
Your
left
right
and
center
to
local
authorities
unto
Scottish
government
I.
B
A
B
What
my
approach
is,
as
I'm
sure
mr.
Young's
approach
was,
and
that
is
to
learn
the
lessons
from
those
previous
IT
projects
that
work
well
and
those
that
work
less
well,
both
in
Scotland
under
a
UK
level.
I
can
only
talk
in
detail
about
the
approach
that
we
are
taking
for
Social
Security
I'm
perfectly
happy
to
at
some
point
following
the
presentation
and
discussion
with
Finance
Committee
of
colleagues.
B
There
choose
to
accept
that
offer
from
my
officials
on
our
IT
bill
to
extend
that
to
other
members
across
this
chamber
and
I
hope
that
if
we
do
that
that
they
will
see
for
themselves
that
our
approach
is
building
on
the
lessons
learnt
across
the
whole
range
of
IT
projects,
not
least
Universal
Credit
I
have
to
say
and
taking
a
staged,
sensible,
managed
approach
to
building
IT
and
not,
as
the
audit
Scotland
report
says,
going
for
one
big
bang.
Thank.