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From YouTube: Members' Business: Fighting for Tax Jobs, Fighting for Tax Justice - 20 September 2017
Description
Fighting for Tax Jobs, Fighting for Tax Justice—That the
Parliament welcomes the Public and Commercial Services Union report, Fighting for Tax Jobs,
Fighting for Tax Justice, which it believes is a comprehensive and considered response to what it
believes is the UK Government’s rash and poorly consulted proposals, Building Our Future, and
notes the view that these plans will seriously damage Scotland’s economy by undermining its
capacity to collect taxes effectively, decimating and destroying a skilled and experienced
workforce, overestimating the benefits and underestimating the costs of digitisation, failing to take
account of the challenges posed by Brexit, neglecting the support needs of the most vulnerable in
society, including poor, disabled and older people, and affecting disproportionately communities
such as East Kilbride, which it believes will bear the heaviest job losses and knock-on effects for
the local economy.
Published by the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body.
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A
Thank
you.
The
excitement
of
business
as
a
members,
business
debate,
emotion,
six,
six,
seven
in
the
name
of
Linda
fabiani,
on
fighting
for
tax
jobs,
fighting
for
tax
justice.
This
debate
will
be
concluded
without
any
questions
being
put
with
those
members
who
wish
to
speak
in
debate.
Please
press
the
request
to
speak
button,
snow
and
I
call
them
Linda
Fabiani
to
over
the
greatness
may
be
only
seven
minutes
or
thereabouts.
Please
thank.
B
You
very
much
presiding
officer.
My
motion
begins
with
the
standard
Parliament
welcomes
in
relation
to
the
public
and
Commercial
Services
Union
report
fighting
for
tax
jobs,
fighting
for
tax
justice,
yes,
I
do
welcome
the
information
and
clarity
that
this
report
brings
in
relation
to
the
UK
government's
rash
and
purely
consulted
proposals.
I
do
welcome
the
opportunity
to
irrigate
this
Parliament's
disquiet
and
serious
concern.
I
do
welcome
the
cross-party
commitment
to
question
the
Yuki
government
proposals.
B
I
do
not
know,
welcome
the
fact
that
this
debate
is
necessary
about
the
slashing
of
Taxation
expertise
and
the
effects
that
this
will
have
on
our
country
and
particularly
in
some
of
our
communities
like
he
sprayed
the
tone
I
am
privileged
to
represent.
The
pcs
report
has
been
published
following
the
business
case,
put
forward
by
the
UK
government,
a
modernization
plan
intended
to
move
to
new
online
services,
data,
analytics
new
techniques,
new
skills
and
new
ways
of
working.
B
B
B
Pcs
have
held
extensive
workshops
across
Scotland
and
collectively
they
have
put
forward
solutions
to
the
crisis
in
HMRC
and
tax
delivery,
but
there
has
been
no
real
attempt
by
HMRC
or
the
UK
government
to
question
the
logistics
of
the
moves
that
they
are
talking
about,
nor
recognition
of
the
expertise
that
will
be
lost.
The
death
of
experience
that
will
result
and
all
of
this
in
a
time
of
uncertainty
and
change
facing
Scotland
and
the
rest
of
the
UK
through
break
sit
within
the
last
week.
B
In
January
this
year,
the
National
Audit
Office
concluded
that
costs
for
the
original
plans
have
risen
by
more
than
half
a
billion
pounds,
more
than
half
of
which
is
the
expense
of
funding
new
buildings,
and
this
is
all
a
backdrop
of
UK
government
pledges
to
tackle
tax
avoidance
and
evasion.
A
Tory
manifesto
pledged
to
keep
jobs
in
local
communities
and
a
recognition
across
the
board.
The
aspirations
to
digitization
are
unrealistic
and
potentially
damaging
to
many
people.
B
Recent
research
by
a
number
of
universities
predicts,
but
up
to
35,
35
percent
of
people
will
not
be
able
to
use
digital
for
a
number
of
reasons.
As
far
as
these
corporate
is
concerned,
there
has
been
no
government
impact
assessment.
It's
not
just
the
jobs
that
will
be
removed
from
the
tone,
its
the
further
impact,
the
effect
on
the
local
economy,
an
economy
that
has
already
suffered
from
losing
major
employers
like
motorola
and
rolls-royce.
B
One
in
ten
jobs
in
his
corporate
art,
based
in
the
tax
office
and
research,
indicates
that
one
in
four
jobs
in
the
time
will
be
affected.
If
his
plans
go
ahead,
asphalt,
Clark,
pcs
branch
organizer
and
his
co,
breakfast
2,700
people
no
longer
contributing
to
the
East
Cobra
economy
is
a
big
hit
to
local
businesses.
As
these
great
task
force,
representative
former
councillor
Chris
Thompson,
makes
clear,
is
Co
brave
stands
to
lose
between
sixteen
point,
three
million
and
thirty
point:
seven
million
pounds
from
its
economy.
B
It's
not
just
local
representatives
who
are
making
the
case
for
HMRC's
business
case
were
re.
Relocation
is
fundamentally
flawed.
The
House
of
Commons
Committee
of
Public
Accounts
their
report
earlier
this
year
is
very
critical
about
the
lack
of
robust
business
planning
and
goes
as
far
as
calling
for
a
complete
rethink
of
the
business
case.
They
have
no
faith,
no
savings
projected
by
HMRC
and
they
have
skepticism
about
basing
regional
hubs
in
expensive
cities
as
they
call
it.
They
have
concerns.
B
The
HMRC's
plan
carries
a
high
risk
of
disruption
to
its
core
business
of
collecting
tax
and
serving
customers.
East
Cobra
is
a
vibrant
community,
presiding
officer
with
an
established
tax
expertise.
Yet
it's
clear
from
the
correspondence
I've
received
via
the
UK
government
that
two
Stanley
King
has
not
even
been
considered
as
an
option
now.
I
know
that
the
main
building
is
least
I
know
it's
an
offshore
company,
but
surely
the
UK
government
is
capable
of
getting
proper
information
to
test
the
viability
of
maintaining
that
expertise
in
his
corporate.
B
Surely
it
would
make
sense
for
HMRC,
as
noted
by
the
House
of
Commons
Committee
of
Public
Accounts,
to
reconsider,
where
they're
moving
to
major
city
centres
is
the
optimal
way
to
deliver
its
objectives
and
achieve
value
for
money.
It
should
compare
the
costs
and
benefits
of
its
chosen
approach
and
the
selected
locations
with
alternative
sites.
Now
I
know
that
this
has
already
been
done.
B
Reference
other
locations
in
the
UK
that
same
respect
should
be
shown
to
Scotland
and
to
Easter
Parade
I
will
M
presiding
officer
by
noting
that
the
staleek
a
campaign
was
launched
by
a
local
paper.
The
Easter
Parade
news
last
week
and
I
have
no
doubt
that
that
campaign
will
be
supported
by
everyone
in
our
tone.
A
petition
is
underway.
B
I
would
ask
the
Scottish
Government
to
continue
to
press
the
UK
government
to
consider
the
excellent
report
by
the
PCEs,
Union
and
HMRC
at
local
staff,
and
to
listen
to
the
many
voices
that
genuinely
believe
that
the
HMRC
plans
are
wrongheaded.
I
would
ask
the
Scottish
Government
to
urge
the
UK
government
not
to
carry
on
regardless
or
even
shorten
the
closure
timescales,
as
I
have
had
rumoured
I
would
ask
the
Scottish
Government
to
support
our
call
to
stay
in
a
key.
Thank
you
very
much
presiding.
Thank.
A
C
You
presiding
officer
and
I
would
like
to
congratulate
Linda
Fabiani
on
bringing
forward
this
important
motion
for
debate
under
reorganization
plan.
Since
back
in
November
2015
17
HMRC
tax
offices
in
Scotland
will
be
closed
by
2026,
including
Plaza,
tower
and
centre
one
in
East
Kilbride.
The
intention
is
to
replace
these
17
offices
with
just
two
centres
in
Glasgow
and
Edinburgh,
which
will
see
staff
numbers
fall
from
just
under
8,000
to
somewhere
between
five
thousand
seven
hundred
and
six
thousand
three
hundred.
C
Therefore,
under
these
proposals
in
the
region,
over
two
thousand
jobs
will
be
lost,
including
hundreds
of
jobs,
any
school
which
will
affect
a
significant
number
of
people
through
my
constituency
of
Rutherglen
who
are
employed
there,
apart
from
the
effect
on
those
who
would
lose
their
jobs,
the
under
working
and
on
the
working
life
of
those
retained,
who
will
be
working
in
a
place
shut
environment
with
a
quarterly
staff.
The
closures
will
have
a
significant
effect
on
both
tax
collection
capability
and
the
service
to
the
public.
C
Tax
collection
and
the
administration
of
the
tax
system
are
a
core
responsibility
of
government
that
generates
the
income
required
to
provide
the
public
services.
We
rely
on
including
the
health
service,
education,
infrastructure
and
economic
stimulation,
as
well
as
responsibilities
that
are
currently
reserved
to
the
UK
government.
The
current
understaffing
of
HMRC
is
a
major
contributing
factor
in
tax
evasion
and
avoidance.
The
ability
of
large
corporations
and
some
individuals
to
play
the
complex
tax
system
to
avoid
paying
the
level
of
Taxation
they
should
be
expected
to
do
is
deplorable.
Well,
tax
avoidance
is
legal.
C
It
is
morally
indefensible.
According
to
the
House
of
Commons
library's
recent
analysis,
it
cost
at
least
twelve
point.
Eight
billion
pounds
between
2010
and
2015
tax
evasion
is
another
area
for
billions
of
pounds
are
lost
to
the
UK
government
each
year.
Evasion
is,
of
course
illegal,
and
one
of
the
core
responsibilities
of
HMRC
is
to
investigate
and
recover
these
missing
monies
from
the
public
person
between
aggressive
tax
avoidance
evasion
and
other
reasons
that
tax
may
go
uncollected.
C
C
These
Messing
billions
have
collected
would
solve
many
of
the
issues
currently
facing
our
society,
including
health
and
equality,
a
fair
and
dignified
Social
Security
system
throughout
the
UK,
as
well
as
justice
for
the
waspy
women,
who
have
been
unfairly
robbed
of
their
rightful
pensions,
and
this
is
exactly
why
we
need
to
detain,
trained
and
skilled
tax
collectors,
who
have
the
specialist
knowledge
to
investigate
fraud
and
help
increase
the
tax
tech.
Well,
enhanced
computer
and
online
systems
have
their
place
in
making
the
service
more
more
efficient.
C
You
also
need
people
to
exercise
judgment,
as
the
PCs
union
have
pointed
out
in
the
report
fighting
for
tax
jobs
fighting
for
tax
justice.
These
HMRC
plans
have
been
drawn
up
with
little
or
no
consultation
with
the
Scottish
government,
and
this
is
unacceptable,
particularly
given
the
transfer
of
some
income
taxpayers
to
this
Parliament.
The
PCs
have
also
highlighted
the
risk
that
these
plans
might
have
on
the
collection
of
the
Scottish
rate
of
income
tax
and
the
potential
consequences
on
Scottish
government
tax.
C
Take
the
centralization
of
the
two
new
Scottish
mega
centres
in
Glasgow
and
Edinburgh
were
disadvantaged
communities
and
taxpayers
and
other
areas
of
Scotland,
making
the
service
more
remote
and
inaccessible
for
many
customers
works
at
the
same
time,
depriving
tax
collectors
of
vital
local
knowledge,
presiding
officer
prior
to
the
independence
referendum.
Three
years
ago,
the
security
of
HMRC
jobs
was
held
up
as
a
reason
for
Scots
to
vote
against
and
dependents,
like
so
many
other
those
given
by
better
together
during
the
campaign.
This
is
another
promise
that
lies
in
tatters.
C
These
proposals
have
been
decried
by
the
Scottish
government
unions
and
the
National
order
office,
who
have
said
that
the
HMRC
plans
are
unrealistic
and
show
not
understanding
of
the
impact
and
services.
These
plans
will
have
a
disproportionate
impact
on
many
communities
with
no
tangible
benefit,
though
deprive
Scotland
of
a
vast
wealth
of
skills
and
experience
of
tax
administration.
It
will
pail
additional
pressure
on
staff
and
leaves
a
potentially
disastrous
decline
in
customer
service
on
all
these
counts
and
on
more,
the
HMRC
should
be
sent
home
to
thank
again
thank.
D
Thank
you
can
I,
first
of
all,
thank
Linda
Fabiani
for
bringing
this
debate
to
Parliament.
Linda
and
I
have
quite
different
political
views,
but
were
evidence
that
it's
possible
quite
regularly
actually
for
people
in
different
parties
to
work
together.
Linda's
the
constituency
MSP
for
East
Kilbride
can.
D
A
D
Fabiani
is
the
constituency
MSP
for
East
Kilbride
and
I
live
there.
I
was
a
counselor
there
for
10
years
and
was
instrumental
in
setting
up
the
East
Cobb
right
task
force.
This
was
formed
when
rolls-royce
announced
they
were
pulling
out
of
the
town.
East
Cobb
ride,
Scotland's
first
new
town
built
70
years
ago,
House,
like
many
other
places,
suffered
its
share
of
job
losses,
but
I
still
believe
it's
a
vibrant
town
with
a
great
future
HMRC
has
announced
it
wants
to
close
down
its
huge
operation.
D
They're
part
of
the
fabric
of
East
Cobb
right
now,
right
from
the
start,
I
said,
I
would
back
any
campaign
to
keep
those
jobs
in
East
Kilbride,
but
I
made
it
plain
that
if
there
were
to
be
any
banner
waving
protests,
then
I'd
be
an
observer.
Only
I've
had
private
discussions
with
a
government
minister
before
the
general
election
and
HMRC
officials
and
will
revive
that
contact.
My
view
is
that
HMRC,
like
any
organisation,
is
perfectly
entitled
to
review
its
operations
from
time
to
time
and
perfectly
entitled
to
conclude.
D
D
Mps
on
the
committee
of
Public
Accounts
produced
a
pretty
damning
report
in
April.
Its
summary
read
and
I
quote:
HMRC
is
one
year
into
a
ten-year
plan
to
transform
the
way
it
collects
tax.
As
part
of
this,
it
plans
to
reduce
its
170
offices
nationwide
to
13
large
regional
hubs
in
city
centres.
We
do
not
believe
that
it
will
save
as
much
money
as
HMRC
has
predicted,
and
we
are
concerned
that
it
has
not
thought
through
all
the
negative
costs
to
the
wider
economy
of
its
approach
and
the
impact
of
local
employment.
D
Its
conclusion
is
highly
relevant.
It
said
HMRC
has
yet
to
demonstrate
that
it
has
a
realistic
and
affordable
plan
to
deliver
such
a
radical
change
to
its
estate,
and
we
do
not
believe
that
it
needs
to
be
based
in
expensive
cities
across
the
UK.
I
agree
with
that
Glasgow
City
Centre
is
expensive.
It
also
said
quote:
the
government
property
unit
should
set
out
the
rationale
for
having
regional
hubs
and
mini
hubs
and
for
determining
their
locations.
D
It
should
also
explain
how
it
is
taking
into
account
the
impacts
on
local
economies
when
deciding
how
the
government
estate
should
be
configured.
It's
that
I'm,
afraid
I'm
out
of
time
now,
I
think
it's
that
local
impact
that
most
concerns
me
and
I've
not
seen
any
evidence
so
far
that
it
will
be
mitigated.
However,
a
letter
to
the
committee
of
June
16th
from
HMRC
chief
executive
John
Thompson
makes
it
very
clear
that
their
intent
on
preceding
the
same
mr.
Thomson
told
me
in
December
that
quotes
whilst
a
score
bride
might
offer
very
competitive
rent
costs.
D
It
would
not
be
right
for
HMRC
to
simply
opt
for
the
location
that
offers
the
cheapest
property
if
an
alternative
site
with
slightly
higher
property
costs,
offers
a
better
overall
net
return
for
the
Exchequer.
Now
I
find
that
staggering.
He
also
said
that
quotes
as
the
local
higher
education
facilities
offer.
Training
in
the
skills
HMRC
needs
Glasgow
would
provide
his
words
better
access
to
a
pipeline
of
talent
that
HMRC
can
attract
and
retain
in
future.
D
E
Posie,
no
sir
again
thank
when
the
Fabiana
for
bringing
the
motion
before
Parliament
today
and
with
your
indulgence.
I
have
to
leave
quite
quickly
after
my
speech
for
another
appointment
and
also
like
to
declare
an
interest
as
chair
of
the
pcs
parliamentary
group.
Pc
has
been.
The
trade
union
represents
tough
HMRC
I,
also
thank
pcs
for
all
the
what
they
do
in
so
many
areas
and
the
report
have
produced
as
evidence
of
a
good
work
and
the
UK
government's
policy
attacks
office
closures
as
impact
on
communities
from
work
to
Brighton.
E
E
A
thousand
of
them
West
was
in
a
law
in
centralized
a
new
build
the
office
and
the
most
expensive
part
of
central
Idaho
Nia.
Does
this
make
any
financial
or
operational
sense?
And,
of
course,
the
quincies
for
West
building
will
be
Graham
each
of
those
what
cost
contribute
a
thousand
pounds
a
year
and
local
shops
and
bars
and
petrol
stations
and
the
rest
all
that
money
gone
with
yet
more
workers
and
more
traffic
directed
onto
the
already
brutal
journey
ant,
essential
Edinburgh
along
the
Amy
each
Mormon
or,
of
course,
the
displaced
staffed.
E
Take
the
train
at
9.30
a
day
for
a
return
ticket
4650
a
week,
no
account
taken
of
Kiran
Joo
is
or
the
environmental
impact
or
a
whole
series
of
knock-on
effects
and
already
can
command.
The
PCs
branch
is
up
and
down
in
the
country
have
been
working
with
councils
and
businesses
and
communities,
faith
Inglis
madness,
the
public
sector
jobs
are
being
decimated
across
the
board.
Tens
of
thousands
of
jobs
have
gone
and
local
government
because
of
the
austerity
policies
of
the
Tories,
compounded
by
the
policies
of
the
Scottish
government
and
fire
services.
E
Police
technologies
and
councils
have
seen
Lee
jobs
shared
across
the
board
across
the
board.
Yet
no
debates
about
any
of
that
from
government
backbenchers
to
defend
these
jobs
out
of
what
crossed
party
with
Filner
Haslip
were
times
of
coins
worth
they,
the
Green
Party,
but
any
of
the
politicians.
We've
been
working
together
for
a
long
time
since
this
announcement
was
made
and
I
will
continue
to
do
that,
but
Huff
DC,
but
then
the
PCs
parliamentary
group.
We
don't
see
any
SMP
members
attending
our
meetings
or
getting
involved
in
our
campaigns.
E
The
quay
tre
play
quite
rightly
put
the
boot
and
the
Tories
on
issues
like
this,
when
it's
the
responsibility
of
the
UT,
a
government
and
I'm
happy
more
than
happy
to
join
them,
but
on
issues,
whether
it's
their
own
government
who
are
responsible
for
hope
for
holding
down
Scottish
several
cells
with
pay
or
imposing
cuts
and
pensions
or
cuts
to
posts.
They
are
nowhere
to
be
seen.
I.
F
E
That
that
changes,
the
PCs,
are
quite
rate
to
demand
a
full
equality
is
an
economic
impact
assessment
of
these
appalling
and
damaging
proposals.
Jobs
in
the
public
sector
should
be
allocated
and
areas
to
spread
the
economic
benefit
and
support
jobs
in
services,
not
the
further
I
rode
the
stability
of
the
local
economy,
local
economies
that
have
served
our
country's
tax
system
well
over
the
years
I.
Thank
when
the
fabiani
for
supporting
pcs
members,
endless
campaign
and
I
hope
she
will
do
so
again
when
the
employer
is
a
ruin.
Government
I.
G
You
presiding
officer,
I
too,
would
like
to
thank
Linda
Fabiani
for
bringing
this
debate
to
the
chamber
this
evening
and
allowing
us
to
once
again
raise
our
concerns
about
HMRC
proposals
to
close
tax
offices
and
centralize
them.
Proposals
optimistically
entitled
building
our
future
I
think
perhaps
dismantling
our
future
might
be
more
appropriate
and
I.
Think
Linda
fabiani
eloquently
expressed
the
devastating
impact
these
proposals
will
have
on
communities
across
Scotland,
given
the
importance
of
tax
collection
and
its
administration
to
society
as
a
whole.
The
lack
of
consultation
is,
quite
frankly
breathtaking.
G
G
These
proposals
are
determined
that
efficiency
lies
in
replacing
people
with
technology,
yet
the
international
evidence
suggests
that
digital
technology
has
aided
tax
collection
when
accompanied
with
increases,
rather
than
decreases
in
staff
numbers.
A
point
forcefully
meet
in
the
excellent
pcs
report.
More
can't
be
done
with
less
money
and
less
people.
How
can
we
possibly
cause
the
tax
gap?
The
tax
were
failing
to
collect
if
we
lose
expertise,
expertise
that
has
been
collected
over
decades
of
work,
expertise
that
raises
much-needed
revenue
in
this
country.
G
This
comprehensive
and
well
read
well
researched
report
fighting
protect
jobs,
fighting
for
tax
justice
that
we
debate
this
evening
rightly
states
that
digitalization
is
no
alternative
to
human
oversight
and
knowledge
gained
over
decades
and
never
will
be.
We've
previously
debated
the
proposal
to
close
HMRC
offices
in
West
Lothian
in
a
member's
business
to
be
brought
by
by
Neil
Finley
and
moving
them
to
Edinburgh.
G
We
debated
that
in
this
chamber
and
the
points
that
I
and
others
made
in
that
to
be
are
worthy
of
repetition,
not
least
because
those
with
responsibility
for
this
decision
don't
appear
to
be
listening
and
I
will
I
should
say,
will
willingly
join
colleagues
cross
party
colleagues
happily
carrying
a
banner.
If
we
need
to
protest
this
further,
because
this
decision
cannot
go
unnoticed,
jobs
should
be
shared
across
the
country,
not
centralized
further
than
the
central
belt
now
I
represent
Lothian
from
West
West
Lothian
tomisaburo
in
the
East.
We
need
jobs
across
Lothian.
G
Why
suck
more
into
the
centre
and
I?
Simply
can't
see
that
the
centralization
that
will
take
place
here
just
five
minutes
from
here
and
you
Waverly,
makes
sense.
They're,
not
the
notion.
The
offices
of
the
Royal
Mile
minutes
from
Princess
3
minutes
from
Edinburgh
Castle
are
cost-saving
and
less
expensive
than
the
current
offices
and
bath
key
and
Livingston.
We
really
need
it
to
see
the
numbers,
because
taxpayers
are
paying
for
this.
We
keep
working.
G
West
Lothian
campaign
has
done
much
to
defend
those
beasts
in
Bathgate
in
Livingston
and
had
made
the
case
many
times
that
increased
travel
times.
Child
care
requirements
would
mean
that
workers
take
a
peak
out
of
8%
or
an
average
of
1300
pounds
out
of
a
salary
of
21,000.
Concerns
have
been
raised
with
me
that
those
who
are
eligible
for
cash
for
excess
fares
might
then
lose
out
on
tax
credits.
G
G
You
know
to
pop
into
to
a
local
pub
at
the
end
of
the
day
and
the
impact
of
increased
travel
on
our
roads,
glass
corrode
one
of
the
most
congested
in
the
UK
I
believe
2nd
out
of
London
well
I'd,
like
David
Mandel,
to
try
a
commute
any
day
this
week,
it
an
incredibly
long
time
and
as
new
Friendly's
pointed
out,
the
train
is
an
expensive
option.
Presiding
officer,
the
term
regional
hub
is
a
misnomer
and
a
strange
description
for
city
center
centralization.
G
F
You
presiding
officer,
and
thank
you
too
Linda
fabiani
for
bringing
such
an
important
issue
to
the
chamber
this
evening.
The
motion
highlights
the
devastating
impact
that
these
job
losses
will
have
on
communities
like
East
Cobb
ride,
I
hope
that
all
of
us
in
the
chamber
this
evening
can
express
support
for
PCs
and
wish
them
all
based
in
their
negotiations
with
HMRC
and
thank
them
for
their
excellent
report.
Fighting
for
tax
jobs
and
tax
justice.
F
Unfortunately,
for
folks,
in
the
highlands
it's
too
late
to
save
their
jobs,
every
member
of
staff
and
the
Inverness
HMRC
office
has
accepted
redundancy.
Some
have
already
left
and
the
office
will
close
in
the
next
few
months
over
60,
highly
skilled
jobs,
gone
I,
hope,
you'll.
Indulge
me
as
I
focus
on
the
experience
of
my
own
constituents
in
this
Tory
government
centralization
scheme
to
prepare
for
this
debate.
I
spoke
to
pcs,
Union
rec,
about
the
closure
of
them
Rene's
office
I
heard
about
people
who
are
facing
real
uncertainty
in
their
lives.
F
At
the
moment,
their
situation
seemingly
worsened
by
the
way
it's
been
handled
since
2015,
the
staff
of
Inverness
HMRC
office
have
been
facing
the
reality
of
being
made
redundant
as
a
result
of
the
building
our
future
programme.
The
nearest
regional
centres
to
us
will
be
in
Edinburgh,
Glasgow
and
Belfast,
which
means
that
most
Inverness
staff
were
unable
to
take
up
posts.
F
Staff
have
been
promised
support
from
HMRC,
but
in
reality
the
level
of
support
that's
been
provided,
has
fallen
far
shorter
for
employees
needed
and
wanted.
Some
employees
in
Inverness
have
accepted
that
their
futures
addint
with
HMRC
and
since
2016
since
late
2016
they've
sought
to
upskill
themselves
with
little
or
no
support
from
here
Marcy.
At
that
time,
the
employees
would
advise
that
the
believing
HMRC
in
the
spring
of
this
year
spring
of
2017,
and
yet
they
have
only
just
received
their
voluntary
redundancy
offers.
F
Having
come
to
terms
with
the
changes
that
lay
ahead,
many
had
started
to
move
forward
and
even
started
to
submit
CVS
and
even
applied
for
jobs,
but
because
of
the
changes
to
the
timeline
that
employees
were
given,
lots
of
them
have
had
to
turn
down
offers
of
future
employment,
because
HMRC
has
changed
when
their
employment
will
end
for
over
two
years.
They
have
faced
uncertainty
about
their
jobs,
their
financial
security
and
the
impact
that
this
would
have
on
themselves
and
their
families.
F
Years
of
excellent
public
service,
ending
like
this
not
being
informed
not
being
supported,
HMRC
moving
the
goalposts
and
it
is
making
employees
feel
undervalued
and
stressed.
The
process
of
redundancy
is
inevitably
stressful,
but
when
the
process
is
not
run
properly,
then
it
can
have
a
serious
impact
on
the
mental
as
well
as
financial
well-being
of
employees.
I
find
one
of
the
most
baffling
aspects
of
this
whole
episode.
F
Just
how
the
Invents
of
the
last
few
years
have
unfolded
and
I
knew
I
have
mentioned
that
in
this
chamber
before
that
I
know
personally
or
folk
who
were
promised
that
if
they
voted
new
in
the
independence
referendum
three
years
ago
this
week,
their
jobs
would
be
safe.
They
have
not
forgotten
those
promises
and
it
is
yet
another
aspect
of
this
whole
episode,
which
is
tough
for
them
to
take.
F
H
You
deputy
presiding
officer-
and
let
me
also
thank
Kalinda
fabiani
for
bringing
this
debate
forward
representing
the
Northeast
I'm
all
too
familiar
with
the
effect
of
job
losses
on
local
communities.
The
last
thing
my
constituents
want
is
to
see
further
job
losses.
Both
Aberdeen
and
Dundee
are
amazing
cities
in
which
to
live
and
do
business
and
both
have
had
more
than
their
fair
share
of
job
losses
already,
while
the
announcement
of
the
location
of
the
new
Social
Security
office
in
Dundee
is
most
welcome.
H
Recent
months
have
not
been
good
for
Dundee,
where
HMRC
employs
over
500
people
due
to
a
number
of
recent
job
losses.
More
than
250
from
Lloyds,
and
just
a
few
weeks
ago,
almost
a
hundred
from
Scottish
electrical
group,
unfortunately
HMRC
plans
to
close
one
office
in
Dundee.
Whilst
another
is
transferred
to
the
Department
of
Work
and
Pensions,
although,
thankfully,
it
seems
most
of
those
jobs
will
be
kept.
H
A
C
I
remember
taking
the
intervention
and
I
hear
the
aim.
You
have
echoed
a
your
colleague,
Green
Sampson's.
What
they're
singing
about
is
perfectly
reasonable
for
HMRC
to
review
their
business
model.
However,
having
heard
what
you've
heard
this
evening
from
a
sale
from
a
lender,
Fabiani
Emily
toured
about
how
HMRC
have
been
treating
their
staff
reduce
and
the
the
trades
you
need
involved.
Would
you
still
accept
that
they
are
acting
in
a
perfectly
reasonable
manner?
Mr.
A
H
Thank
you
for
that
intervention.
Let
me
continue
to
say
that
it
is
equally
fair,
though,
to
examine
that
process
and
to
raise
questions
about
areas
that
we
have
concerns
over,
for
example,
about
how
the
effects
of
closures
and
local
employment
and
economies
will
be
properly
addressed.
So
too,
there
are
questions
over
the
potential
loss
of
specialized
local
knowledge
and
the
impact
that
might
have
on
excise
and
tax
avoidance
work.
H
G
Just
briefly,
doesn't
a
member
not
acknowledge
that
there
has
been
a
woeful
lack
of
consultation
and
such
lack
of
consultation
and
disregard
for
the
views
of
those
working
in
this
service?
You
know
are
bound
to
be
met
with
a
degree
of
frustration,
though
I
do
not
share
the
members
interpretation
of
the
report.
G
H
H
For
that
intervention,
I
think
just
that
an
extent,
your
language
there
is
quite
extreme,
and
if
we're
trying
to
find
a
way
to
to
work
forward,
then
we
need
to
use
language
that
we
can
all
adopt.
I
mean
I've,
read,
I,
hope,
you've
read
the
report
as
well
as
I
say.
It
says
that
Edinburgh
is
undeserving
of
new
jobs,
because
the
relatively
high
average
disposable
income
in
the
city
is
that,
does
that
mean
everyone
in
Edinburgh
is
rich
there's?
H
H
You,
the
fundamental
principle
here,
should
be
how
best
to
protect
local
jobs,
address
valid
concerns
amongst
the
workforce
and
support
our
communities.
Those
things
are
not
achieved
by
pushing
party
political
politics
on
the
issue,
suggesting
some
are
less
diverse,
deserving
of
jobs
than
others,
or
promoting
a
trade
unions,
radical
political
objectives.
They
are
accomplished
by
cooperation
and
concerns
by
reasoned
rational
debate
and
by
standing
up
for
the
people
that
matter
most.
H
A
I
Very
much
shape
rezoning.
Often
there
can
I
begin
by
joining
others
and
thanking
whether
fabiani
for
bringing
us
the
beat
it
to
the
table.
Just
as
she
said
the
out
say,
I
don't
welcome.
In
fact,
that's
the
beat
as
a
necessary
venomous
regret
that
we
are
here
as
well,
but
there's
to
be
as
NSS
or
as
right
that
we
have
had
the
chance
to
to
discuss
this
issue
this
evening.
Can
I
welcome
the
contributions
that
have
been
made.
Almost
universally
I'll
come
to
mr.
Bowman's
contribution
in
a
few
a
moment's
time,
but
they
debate.
I
I
Let
me
pick
up
on
the
language
that
was
deployed
by
both
mr.
Boorman
and
mr.
Simpson
and
I
should
caveat,
I.
Think
the
general
thrust
of
mr.
Simpson's
confused
Nadir's
one
I
very
much
welcome
and
I
will
return
to
that
in
a
few
moments,
but
what
they
both
said.
It
was
appropriate
for
a
tmrc
to
review
their
business
model,
I
suppose
in
some
senses.
I
I
would
not
disagree
with
that
general
sense,
but
surely
taking
on
board
the
point
that
Allison
Johnston
has
made
RT
a
time
where
we
rightly
see
concerns
from
great
public
concern
actually
about
the
the
fact
that
many
too
many
taxes
go
on
collect.
We
see
significant
tax
avoidance,
then
we
must
question
the
sense
of
a
business
model
which
is
going
to
see
further
reductions
and
the
numbers
of
each
see
employees,
as
will
be
the
case
with
this
program.
We
see
that
through
the
creation
of
the.
What
are
you
from
a
stateless,
fair?
I
Does
regional
center
think
the
term
nodes
it
was
deployed
by
clear
hulking
mega
centers,
where
a
rather
more
dr.
Allison
just
was
quite
correct
to
say
the
term
regional
hub
as
somewhat
strange
where
they
are
anticipated
to
accommodate
between
five
thousand
seven
hundred
to
six
thousand
three
hundred
stuff.
When
we
know
right
now,
there
are
over
eight
thousand
eighty
NRC
staff
employed
and
so
on.
I
D
Thank
Jamie
Hepburn
for
taking
the
intervention.
Will
he
accept
that?
What
what
I've
said
in
my
speech
was
that
it's
perfectly
right
for
any
organisation
governments
included
to
review
the
way
they
the
way
they
operate.
But
I
also
said
that
I
disagreed
with
the
conclusions
of
this
review,
which
I'm
entitled
to
do
as
a
locally
elected
politician.
I.
Think
the
conclusions
of
this
review
are
wrong.
Yes,
I.
I
Would
concede
that
and
I
suppose
that
suppose
that,
with
all
due
respect,
I
must
have
borne
that
I
was
drawing
a
distinction
between
your
contribution,
mr.
Simpson
and
your
esteemed
colleague
mr.
Baumann's
a
contribution
this
evening.
Let
me
see
I
I
and
that
regardless
should
say
that
they,
when
we
talk
about
a
reviewing
Burstyn,
suppose
I
think
there's
a
clear
compelling
case.
We
have
that
this
evening
that
should
cause
nuki
government
to
pause
for
thought.
I
I
am,
of
course,
responding
this
evening
officer
on
behalf
of
the
Scots,
determine
I've
got
a
clear
ministerial
interested
in
my
with
my
responsibility
for
employability.
There's
going
to
be
a
direct
impact,
an
employment
across
Scotland
through
these
changes.
I
should
of
course
also
say
that
I
speak
as
a
constituency
representative
in
the
case
of
each
obviously,
because
the
second
largest
saying
say
that
will
be
affected
by
these
changes
as
located
after
Center
one
and
Emmas
fabiana's
constituency
is
located
and
my
own.
So
this
is
a
very
real
issue
of
concern.
I
One
I
know
that
is
causing
a
considerable
concern
to
the
workforce
in
that
regard.
I
want
to
thank
the
PCs
for
their.
What
for
the
report
they
have
laid
before
us
that
they
have
submitted
to
for
the
consideration
of
the
UK
government
and
indeed,
for
this
government,
considers
real,
not
try
to
come
to
that
and
a
few
moments
time,
but
in
that
regard,
this
is
where
I
thought
bill.
I
They
are
acting
and
the
fashion
you
would
expect
a
trade
union
that
is
not
a
radical
political
agenda
as
representing
those
of
their
members,
as
you
would
expect
and
I
think
we
should
put
in
the
left.
I'm
sure,
pcs,
with
and
I
see
some
of
the
representatives
and
the
public.
Galassini
may
well
be
writing
to
you.
Mr.
Boorman,
but
I
yeah
I
thought
it
was
a
very
strange
for
you
to
say
that
they
have
said
that
Edinburgh
is
undeserving
of
additional
jobs.
I
have
read
PTR.
I
I
Key
Lovingston
are
the
the
the
primary
examples
in
this
case
that
benefit
by
having
the
jobs
located
there
juice
no,
and
why
would
those
communities
have
to
suffer
that
US
benefit
by
relocating
those
jobs
to
another
creation
which
might
not
be
as
economic
disadvantaged
already
as
those
other
communities?
Not
regardless
should
I
pay
tribute
to
those
of
my
colleagues.
A
fiona
has
obviously
a
few
right
next
to
me
right
now
in
terms
of
the
campaign
and
we've
undertaken
for
their
communities
and
it
waste
with
him.
And
let
me
let
me
turn
to
the
report.
I
That's
been
laid
out
because
I
did
concede
that
it
called
in
the
Scottish
Government
to
undertake
a
certain
things
called
us
to
interact
with
the
UK
government
to
call
a
halt,
and
these
this
a
process.
We've
done
that
the
first
minister
spoke
person,
second
parent
sector,
HMRC
the
count
say
to
the
economy,
jobs
and
field
work
has
written
to
if
a
natural
sector
to
Her
Majesty's
tragedy
to
the
seeker
meeting
to
discuss
these
matters
and
some
detail
I
have
to
see
the
sports
was
all
negative,
and
it
was
very
interesting
to
hear
that
mr.
I
Simpson
has
been
able
to
secure
a
meeting
to
discuss
this
with
the
relevant
minister
and
the
UK
government
and
I
and
private.
Indeed,
and
I
look
forward
to
his
assistance
in
ensuring
that
the
Scottish
government,
the
elected
Scottish
government,
can
see
its
possession
to
the
UK
government
as
well.
The
report
also
it
talks
about
whether
the
HMRC
in
Scott
should
be
continues
to
be
under
control
of
the
UK
Parliament
of
whether
it's
purl
should
be
transferred
to
Hollywood
the
squad.
She
can't
of
course
supports
him.
I
I
am
very
clear
that
post
click
manage
all
taxation
reasons.
Cotton
should
become
the
preserve
of
the
Scottish
government
and
the
list
of
responsibilities
of
this
part
of
the
report
caused
the
abandonment,
of
course,
the
PFI
programs
for
office
buildings.
This
again
is
something
that
he's
got.
This
government
supports
and
has,
of
course,
put
in
place
through
our
own
a
program
of
construction.
So
let
me
say
I
very
much
welcome
the
report
that's
been
put
in
place,
I
think
it
is
the
report
from
the
PCs
that
has
been
put
in
place.
I
I
think
it
as
unfortunately,
they've
had
to
do
so,
because
I
very
much
regret
the
approach
that
the
UK
government
has
taken
here.
So
let
me
cause
by
reassuring
Linda
Fabian,
as
she
is
called
upon
the
Scottish
government
to
continue
to
press
the
UK
government
on
this
matter.
I,
certainly
a
shoe
at
her.
That
is
something
we'll
continue
to
do.
Thank.