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From YouTube: Topical Questions - 18 September 2018
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_
Topical Questions
1. Gordon MacDonald: To ask the Scottish Government what its position is on the Migration
Advisory Committee report on EU migration and its implications for Scotland. (S5T-01225)
2. Jamie Greene: To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to reports that £45 million
has been loaned to Ferguson Marine, and whether this is related to the provision of two new
ferries being built under contract to CMAL. (S5T-01217)
_
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C
Thank
you
for
saying
officer,
as
this
is
my
first
time
speaking
as
Minister
I
first
wish
to
draw
members
attention
to
my
voluntary
register
of
interests
for
transparency.
I
prefer
the
chamber
to
that
voluntary
interest
that
my
partner
is
employed
by
Christian
Aid
in
Scotland,
and
also
coming
before,
coming
directly
to
Gordon
MacDonald
question
and
in
relevance
to
it,
I
think
it's
important
to
say
as
new
Minister
the
N
word.
Migration
is
crucial
to
Scotland's
growth
and
prosperity.
C
People
who
choose
to
make
Scotland
their
home
provide
a
vital
contribution
to
our
country's
economy,
enhance
our
collective
social
and
cultural
well-being
and
helped
to
make
Scotland
the
open
and
forward-looking
nation
that
it
is
today.
Since
the
brexit
vote,
the
Scottish
Government
has
been
consistently
clear
that
we
unequivocally
value
and
welcome
the
positive
contribution
that
migrants
make
to
our
country
and
as
new
Minister
I
want
to
make
that
information
absolutely
clearly.
Today.
C
The
report
from
the
migration
Advisory,
Committee
or
Mac
that
was
published
earlier
this
morning
will
be
of
deep
disappointment
to
businesses
and
employers
across
Scotland.
Employers
wanted
a
system
which
recognized
the
importance
of
EE
citizens,
which
was
simple
and
low-cost,
which
met
the
needs
of
their
sectors
and
furthermore,
as
the
report
from
British
futures
assured
yesterday,
people
across
Scotland
also
want
a
system
that
gives
more
responsibility
to
the
Scottish
Government,
none
of
which
was
acknowledged
in
today's
report.
B
Don't
do
the
recommendations
made
in
this
report
nor
completely
misunderstand
much
of
the
Scottish
context
that
us,
for
example,
that
Scotland's
demographic
demographic
issues,
aging
population
of
working
age,
can
be
solved
by
raising
the
age
of
retirement?
Surely
there
are
simpler,
more
effective
ways
than
that
to
tackle
a
shortfall
of
workers
and
our
public
services,
for
example,
by
attracting
more
migrants
of
working
age
deal
of
here.
C
B
Macdonald
the
report
does
acknowledge
the
devolution
of
emigration
power
as
ultimately
a
political
choice.
The
Scottish
Government's,
outward-looking,
welcoming
positive
approach
to
emigration
could
be
further
removed
from
the
right-wing
rhetoric
emanating
from
the
UK
government
and
the
brexit
context.
Indeed,
just
of
this
poll
in
The
Herald
showed
that
two-thirds
of
Scots
won
emigration
powers
devolved
as
a
high
time.
Westminster
listened
to
those
demands,
Minister.
C
Absolutely
and
I
think
it's
important
to
reiterate
that
this
report
does
acknowledge
7.7
that
the
devolution
of
emigration
pers
is
ultimately
a
political
choice.
The
Scottish
Government's
outward
looking
welcoming
positive
approach
to
immigration
couldn't
be
further
removed
from
the
right-wing
rhetoric
emanating
from
the
UK
government.
Gordon
MacDonald
is
absolutely
right
to
say
that
the
reports
a
year
ago
from
the
migration
Observatory
that
they
published
specifically
considered
a
regional
migration
system.
C
They
concluded
that
the
arguments
against
regional
visa,
a
regional
visa
system
were
not
about
practicalities,
but
about
politics
and,
as
has
been
mentioned
already
today,
the
report
from
the
British
future
published
yesterday
provided
some
very
clear
messages.
Firstly,
people
do
not
trust
the
UK
government
to
manage
emigration.
That
was
made
abundantly
clear
in
the
report,
with
only
15
percent
of
people
surveyed
by
as
ICM
thinking
that
the
UK
government
had
managed
immigration
into
the
UK
competently
or
fairly,
and
indeed
to
quote
the
British
features
report.
C
The
current
immigration
system
does
not
command
public
trust
and
support.
Secondly,
and
also
very
importantly,
to
us
here
in
this
Parliament
people
were
also
clear
when
pulled
by
ICM
about
the
sort
of
change
they
want
to
see.
64%
of
people
in
Scotland
agreed
that
the
government's
in
Scotland,
Wales
and
Northern
Ireland
should
have
the
power
to
decide
how
many
visas
are
issued
to
people
who
want
to
work
in
those
parts
of
the
UK
and
they
agreed
to
this
proposal.
C
There
is
a
clear
and
building
and
growing
consensus
that,
in
order
to
meet
the
economic
demographic
needs
of
Scotland,
we
need
more
powers
to
this
Parliament
in
order
to
create
tailored
solutions.
It's
time
for
the
UK
government
to
listen
to
the
calls
from
business,
civic
society,
universities
across
civic
society
and
also
listen
to
the
people
of
Scotland
who,
by
two-thirds,
believe
that
more
parts
should
come
to
this
Parliament
in
order
to
manage
our
migration
system
in
a
more
humane
and
forward-looking
manner.
Polly.
A
D
Thank
You
presiding
officer,
and
does
the
minister
agree
that
we
should
end
the
discrimination
against
EU
workers
affair
in
the
report?
But
the
report
said
they
were
not
convinced
that
the
route
for
low-skilled
workers
was
one
that
should
be
created
and
the
minister
will
be
aware
of
the
two-tier.
These
are
currently
applies
to
a
list
of
occupations
where
there
is
a
shortage
such
as
cybersecurity,
pediatrics,
game
designs
and
so
on.
D
So
I
do
agree
that
Scotland
should
have
a
C
and
the
immigration
policy
should
be
fit
for
the
whole
of
UK
and
I've
argued
this
consistently.
I
would
like
to
know
what
list
of
occupations
have
the
Scottish
government
put
forward
for
for
that
two-tier
visa
and
what
precise
dialogue
half
ministers
had
to
make
the
keys
for
Scotland's
interest
to
be
addressed
in
that
list
of
occupations,
because
surely
there
must
be
a
case
put
for
more
skilled
workers
to
be
on
that
list.
C
Thank
You
Pauline
MacNeil
for
that
important
question.
I
think
the
interesting
balance
that
there
is
between
high
skills
and
low
skilled
workers
and
the
way
that
the
report
preferences
some
above
the
others
is
disappointing
and
will
be
disappointing
to
industries
across
Scotland
like
tourism,
hospitality,
the
agricultural
sector
and
social
care
that
rely
on
low-skilled
workers
and
I.
Think.
C
This
is
a
matter.
I
have
pressed
the
UK
government
honours,
Minister
I
met
with
Caroline
look
norc's
the
Immigration
Minister
in
the
summer
and
pressed
her
on
this
point,
and
she
gave
me
an
undertaking
that
the
UK
government
would
look
at
how
there
could
be
Scottish
government
input
and
potentially
wider
from
Scottish
civic
society
and
business
into
that
occupation
list
in
order
to
make
sure
it
was
fit
for
purpose.
E
City
Minister
social
care
workers
are
not
what
scaled
in
my
opinion,
but
can
I
say
that
social,
arches
and
Scotland
and
emigration
are
very
much
or
very
similar
to
those
across
the
rest
of
the
UK.
And
does
he
agree
that
Klamath
limits
on
the
number
of
people
migrated
into
the
UK
as
arbitrary,
and
what
we
need
is
a
fair
and
humane
and
non-discriminatory
policy
that
meets
the
needs
of
the
nations
and
regions
of
the
UK.
And,
as
we
minister.
C
Again,
I
thank
Neil
Findlay
for
that
important
question
and
a
share
much
of
the
sentiment
in
it.
First
of
all,
I,
absolutely
value
all
skills
in
our
economy.
The
point
I
was
making
is
that
the
one
of
the
problems
with
the
Mac
is
that
it
gives
a
hierarchy
towards
some
skills
more
than
the
other
and
deeply
valued
the
commitment
of
social
care
workers
throughout
Scotland
and
in
my
constituency,
and
that
is
the
the
view
of
other
government
ministers.
C
It's
a
highly
regarded
sector
and
we
want
those
who
are
working
in
our
social
care
sector
to
stay
and
continue
to
contribute
and
take
care
of
the
people
that
we
know
our
neighbors
and
friends
and
those
in
our
communities.
In
terms
of
the
wider
point
which
Neil
Findlay
was
absolutely
right
to
to
bring
up
around
the
UK
government's
arbitrary
insensitive,
unhelpful,
inflexible,
unworkable
commitment
to
bring
migration
down
to
the
tens
of
thousands.
He's
absolutely
right
to
point
out
the
the
wrongheadedness
of
this
approach,
both
logically
and
in
principle
and
I.
C
A
G
Shipbuilding
has
a
proud
history
and
a
bright
future.
That's
why
this
government
will
continue
to
support
the
industry
to
thrive
and
reach
his
full
potential.
I
advised
the
finance
and
constitution
committee
earlier
this
year
that
ministers
had
approved
commercial
law
and
facilities
of
up
to
forty
five
million
points
for
Ferguson,
marina,
the
law
and
facilities
were
reported
to
audit
Scotland
and
the
expenditure
will
be
recorded
and
Scottish
Government's
consolidated
accounts.
F
A
F
Thank
the
conversation
without
response
unfortunately
took
a
number
of
fo
eyes
and
pressure
ports
for
the
government
to
come
to
the
chamber
and
tell
Parliament
the
more
information
about
these
loans.
Can
I
read
the
opening
line
of
the
FOI
response.
It
says
the
Scottish
Government
does
not
hold
detailed
information
on
all
public
funding,
public
funding
provided
to
private
companies
in
Scotland
I'm.
Sorry,
observing
also
I
find
that
absolutely
incredulous.
Why
does
it
not
hold
those
details?
So
let
me
ask
some
specific
questions:
delay
the
Cabinet
Secretary
to
clarify
this
money.
F
First
of
all,
the
15
million
pound
Lauren.
What
was
its
purpose?
What
do
diligence
was
done
on
the
firm
before
the
loan
was
made
and
what
analysis
has
been
done
on
how
that
money
been
sent
I
spent.
Secondly,
the
additional
30
million
pound
lawn
facility
was
explicitly
not
to
go
towards
the
sea,
mal
fairies
or
pay
pay
for
budget
overruns
in
those
contracts,
but
instead
it
was
designed
to
win
new
business
opportunities
and
contrast
to
what
the
cabinet
secretaries
just
said.
G
That's
quite
an
incredible
possession
for
the
Conservatives
to
hold.
They
clearly
don't
speak
to
each
other.
It's
just
not
true
to
see
that
I
have
an
informed
Parliament
of
these
loans
when
in
fact,
as
I
referenced
in
my
initial
answer,
I
have
in
foreign
Parliament,
particularly
the
finance
and
constitution
committee.
I
did
so
on
April,
the
24th
and
on
June
the
27th.
G
Now
I
am
under
no
obligation
to
present
the
information
to
Parliament
that
I
did
I
went
beyond
the
expectation,
in
the
spirit
of
transparency,
to
offer
that
information
to
the
Finance,
Committee
and
I
think
that's
the
appropriate
thing
to
do
now.
I
have
to
say
that
most
members
of
parliament
understand
issues
of
commercial
confidentiality.
G
Certainly,
members
of
the
Finance
Committee,
including
the
responsible
conservative
members
of
the
Finance
Committee,
understand
what
commercial
confidentiality
is,
and
there
are
some
matters
that
do
stay
private.
Of
course
we
have
fulfilled
their
obligations
under
Freedom
of
Information
again
in
terms
of
support
for
Ferguson's
and
I.
Do
think
it's
incredible
from
a
member
that
seeks
to
be
elected
in
the
West
of
Scotland
trying
to
undermine
Ferguson's
in
the
fashion
that
he
is.
G
But
the
financial
support
for
Ferguson's
is
to
ensure,
of
course,
the
delivery
of
the
the
viability,
the
ongoing
continuation
of
work
for
the
yard
to
ensure
that
they
had
working
capital.
That
was
the
specifics
around
the
request
and,
of
course
we
want
the
delivery
of
the
new
vessels
as
well.
So
I
think
it's
good
for
our
government
to
engage
to
ensure
that
we
can
support
Scottish
shipbuilding
in
the
that
we
have
and
I
see
again
presiding
officer
without
any
obligation
to
do
so.
F
Green
setting
also
this
isn't
about
whether
the
government
should
or
should
not
support
the
marine
industry.
This
is
about
accountability,
transparency
from
this
government
and
good
governance,
none
of
which
I've
heard
today
from
the
cabinet
secretary.
This
project
is
already
a
year,
delayed
by
at
least
a
year
and
already
tens
of
millions
of
pounds
over
budget
there's
also
talk
of
a
dispute
between
the
yard
owners,
the
government
and
Cemal
over
project
management
and
where
the
liability
of
these
financial
overruns
lie.
F
G
Well,
let
me
very
be
very
clear
on
ferries
investment,
this
government's
invested
over
a
billion
pounds
in
terms
of
ferry
services
since
2007
we've
deployed
new
ferries
for
the
network
and
that's
been
an
enhancement
of
the
calmac
fleet.
Now
does
the
Conservatives
not
even
welcome
the
fact
that
we
are
trying
to
support
Scottish
shipbuilding?
What
is
so
wrong
with
that
possession
that
the
Scottish
government
is
trying
to
support
Scottish
shipbuilding,
400
jobs,
400
jobs
at
Ferguson's?
Is
that
not
to
be
welcomed
by
the
Conservatives
and
others
in
the
chamber,
including
new
apprentices
as
well?
G
No,
of
course
the
delese
are
not
welcome
they're
out
unfortunate,
but
it's
though
this
government
that's
committed
to
that
investment
for
those
new
vessels
and
I.
Guess
they
again
that
Jamie
Green
may
not
be
familiar
with
issues
of
commercial
confidentiality,
but
of
course,
due
diligence
has
been
conducted.
This
was
like
this
was
a
question
that
was
posed
to
me
by
the
member
that
now
seems
more
interested
in
other
matters.
Of
course,
due
diligence
was
undertaken
in
relation
to
these
commercial
loans.
These
are
commercial
loans
with
commercial
terms
and
bound
by
commercial
confidentiality.
G
Is
the
member
seriously
suggesting
we
know
shouldn't
respect
that
and
not
respect
the
fact
that
the
government's
interventions
insured
not
only
have
we
helped
save
the
yard,
but
we
are
delivering
four
hundred
jobs
and
that
part
of
Scotland
the
vessels
will
absolutely
be
delivered
and
the
working
capital
issue
that
was
raised
by
Ferguson's.
We
have
provided
support
through
these
loans.
I
see
again,
the
more
responsible
members
of
the
Conservative
Party
who
are
on
the
Finance
Committee
were
alerted
to
the
loans
over
and
above
the
expectations
of
transparency
or
me
as
a
cabinet
secretary.
G
H
You
very
much
for
saying
also
just
they
can
mistake
to
agree
with
me
that
it's
the
hate
of
utter
hypocrisy
of
a
conservative
MSP,
particularly
one
with
a
Port
Glasgow
connection,
to
come
to
this
chamber.
Talking
down
shipbuilding
makers,
station,
see
talking
down
high-quality
and
skilled
jobs,
building
a
main.
The
absolute
devastation
has
parted
there
too
shipbuilding
in
1979
when
the
shut,
the
yards
peered
off
thousands
and
devastated
communities,
including
our
own
cabinet
secretary.
A
G
Agree
with
Esther
McMullen
and
in
that
regard,
I
think
a
that
it's
been
important
that
the
Scottish
government,
not
just
for
Shep
Bowden,
but
in
an
industrial
interventions
across
Scotland.
This
government
has
taken
bold
decisions
to
support
Scottish
industry
and
I
think
this
is
a
good
example
of
that.
The
Tories
not
satisfied
in
devastating
Scottish
industry
even
know
in
our
possession
are
undermining
and
attacking
our
efforts
to
support
the
Scottish
economy.
G
I
A
G
Actually
thank
the
member
for
the
way
in
which
he's
raised
that
particular
issue.
I
think
that's
a
far
more
helpful
contribution
than
simply
the
Tories
trying
to
undermine
the
loan
support
that
we've
given
to
the
company
and
I
clearly,
as
as
finance
secretary
interested
in
procurement
lay
across
the
public
sector
and
I
think
there
is
something
to
be
said
for
ensuring
that
all
parties
here
they
do
continue
to
talk
to
get
round
the
table
to
ensure
that
we
can
make
the
necessary
progress.
G
But
in
essence
this
question
was
was
about
the
commercial
law
and
that's
been
offered
and
I
think
have
been
able
to
show
that
I've
absolutely
complied
with
the
expectation
of
Parliament
gone
above
and
beyond.
In
terms
of
offering
that
information
Finance
Committee
as
the
father
worked
in
relation
to
see
mal,
who,
of
course,
all
the
in
authority
here
and
if
mail
then,
yes,
I,
think
we
can
have
further
discussion
in
that
regard.
Edward.
J
You
presiding
officer
as
a
member
of
the
Rec
Committee
I've,
heard
how
important
new
fairies
are
for
Scotland.
We've
heard
that
we
need
a
new
one
to
be
ordered
every
year
for
the
next
ten
years.
So
I
don't
dispute
that
what
I'm
asking
the
cabinet
secretary
is
is.
Does
he
think
that
due
diligence
has
been
correctly
done
in
this
case,
when
the
company
that
the
loan
has
been
made
to
haven't
submitted
audited
accounts
since
2015,
which
actually
raises
the
question
of
whether
it
is
diligent
to
lend
them
that
money?
G
Will
any
any
author
of
a
loan?
Of
course
we
would
expect
due
diligence
to
be
complied
with.
It
has
been
that
has
been
external,
a
consultants,
a
working
and
that
regardless
well
as
a
finance
officials
as
well
again,
members
would
expect
me
to
appreciate
an
abide
with
commercial
confidentiality,
but
I
can
certainly
give
I
can
certainly
give
the
reassurance
to
the
chamber
that
due
diligence
it
was
carried
out.
This
is
a
commercial
loan
with
commercial
terms.
G
It's
your
question,
I
have
to
say,
and
the
the
conservators
might
want
to
talk
to
your
colleagues
who,
of
course
are
represented
on
the
Finance
Committee
in
terms
of
the
information
it
was
raised,
I've
pointed
out
to
master
green
I'm
sure
it.
What
mountain,
if
you
remember
same
committee,
I
think
you
are
we'd,
have
been
given
the
invitation
to
visit
the
yard
as
well
and
I've
been
quite
happy
to
engage
and
questions
that
have
been
asked
or
any
FY
father
to
that
as
the
Finance
Committee
wants
further
information.
Of
course,
I'll
engage
positively.
G
Westland
I
remind
the
chamber
once
again
without
obligation
to
do
so.
I
volunteered
the
issue
of
the
Lord
to
the
committee
and
I
think
that
that
was
a
responsible
thing
to
do
and
rather
been
dragged
to
the
team,
but
I've
been
quite
forthcoming.
Any
information
that
I've
presented
and,
of
course,
we'll
add
the
further
information
I
referred
to
in
my
opening
answer,
I
think.
K
G
I'm
sure
that
Jackie
Bailey
will
understands
that
in
relation
to
any
procurement
issue
or
dispute.
It
wouldn't
be
appropriate
for
me
in
the
team,
but
to
take
sides
in
that
regard,
but
I
think
I've
referred
to
her
colleague
earlier
on
and
to
see
that
for
anything,
father
I
can
do
in
terms
of
procurement
responsibilities.
Of
course,
I'll
engage
in
that
and
I'll
be
happy
to
genuinely
happy
to
engage
with
Jackie
Bailey
on
this
and
any
other
matter.
Thank.