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From YouTube: Topical Questions - 11 September 2018
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Topical Questions
1. Finlay Carson: To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with Dumfries and
Galloway Council regarding the closure of the new North West Community Campus in Dumfries.
(S5T-01213)
2. Christine Grahame: To ask the Scottish Government whether it will ban the export of livestock
for fattening for slaughter. (S5T-01204)
_
Read the full transcript of Topical Questions in the Scottish Parliament Official Report: http://goo.gl/cVWQae
Published by the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body.
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C
Of
the
safety
and
of
students
and
staff
is
our
primary
concern.
Well,
this
is
a
matter
for
them.
Fishing
gallery.
Council
we've
been
in
close
contact
with
the
council
and
stand
ready
to
provide
whatever
assistance
may
be
required.
Scottish
government
officials
have
undertaken
regular
discussions
with
the
council
and
I've
spoken
to
the
chief
executive
of
the
local
authority
to
discuss
the
ongoing
situation
at
the
campus.
C
A
B
The
cabinet
sector
for
that
response,
it's
almost
exactly
two
years
ago
to
the
day
that
there
was
the
sword
cutting
and
the
cabinet
secretary
said.
It
marked
an
exciting
milestone
for
Dumfries.
Well,
today
we
mark
another
chapter
in
the
wolf's
own
reputation
of
Dumfries
and
Galloway
Council.
Once
again,
it
seems
the
defeat
has
been
snatched
from
the
jaws
of
victory.
Parents
and
staff
are
hugely
concerned
that
the
Northwest
Community
Campus
is
unsafe.
B
We
have
seen
ceilings
collapse,
adora,
injuring
a
child
after
come
off
its
rails,
and
the
latest
incident
saw
a
child
hit
by
a
falling
electronic
whiteboards.
This
was
after
a
council
officer
gave
assurances
that
and
I
quote,
we've
probably
done
far
greater
levels
of
checks
now
than
you
might
normally
have
done:
local
people
and
parents
the
demanding
answers.
C
C
So
the
local
authority
must
satisfy
themselves
that
all
all
scrutiny
has
been
undertaken
to
ensure
that
the
quality
of
the
building
is,
as
it
should
be
and
haven't
discussed
this
matter
with
the
recent
Galloway
Council
and
there
I
can
say,
I've
seen
extensive
work
that
has
been
undertaken
to
secure
the
necessary
confirmation
that
the
standards
of
the
building
are,
as
they
should
be
quite
clearly
that
has
not
been
satisfactory,
so
the
council
must
M
and
I
know
they
are
intent
and
Dunas
hold
the
contract
of
stucco,
because
these
are
contractual
issues.
These
are.
C
None
of
these
things
should
be
anticipated
or
expected
in
the
delivery
of
a
school
building,
so
the
contractor
must
be
held
to
account
on
all
of
us
and
the
local
authorities
meeting
the
contractor
a
very
senior
level
tomorrow
to
discuss
these
questions
in
relation
to
the
latter
part
of
mr.
Carson's
question,
and
obviously
there
will
have
to
be
investigations
and
reports
going
on
here
and
the
there
will
have
to
be
transparency
around
these
issues
and
certainly
from
the
government's
perspective.
C
B
With
gratitude
to
safety
checks,
the
recent
gallery
cases
website
shows
that
a
building's
completion
certificate
was
granted
for
the
project
in
the
20th
of
July.
Five
days
later,
a
ceiling
collapsed
at
the
building
after
an
issue
where
the
sprinkler
system
now
I'm,
not
a
builder,
but
I
would
imagine
that
if
this
girl
had
been
felled
with
pupils
and
staff
at
that
time,
it
would
been
disastrous.
The
council
website
states
the
building
regulations
are
in
place
to
make
sure
the
buildings
are
safe.
B
Now
it
strikes
me
that
the
process
of
the
council
Awards
and
completion
certificates
to
projects
that
they
have
a
vested
interest
in
and
particularly
and
in
this
case,
whether
behind
schedule,
it
could
be
open
to
suggestions
or
possible
and
potential
conflicts
of
interest.
Well,
the
Deputy
First
Minister
gave
a
student
that
this
process
will
be
reviewed
when
we're
looking
at
the
process
of
deeming
whether
our
buildings
are
safe
for
use
to.
C
The
important
that
we
remember
what
is
the
purpose
of
the
certificates
that
are
issued
by
local
authorities?
It
is
to
provide
confirmation
that
buildings
have
been
built
to
the
necessary
standards
and
to
provide
clarity
and
reassurance
from
not
to
members
of
the
public.
So
a
local
authority
has
a
statutory
duty
to
undertake
that
task,
independent
of
whether
or
not
it
has
an
interest
in
the
building,
it
must
provide
that
assurance.
C
So
certainly
these
issues
that
are
raised
by
mr.
Carson
are
legitimate
points
to
be
raised
in
the
discussion
that
we
have
about
the
safety
and
security
of
buildings.
But
what
I
would
see
to
mr.
Carson
at
the
stage
inti
say
to
Parliament,
is
that
fundamentally
we
rely
upon
contractors
doing
the
job
they
are
contracted
to
undertake.
Fundamentally,
that
is
the
issue
and
yes,
of
course,
there
have
to
be
checks
to
make
sure
that
has
been
done
at
this
stage.
C
A
D
You
presiding
officer,
it
is
extremely
concerning
that
this
is
the
second
incident
in
a
ski
week
period,
which
has
resulted
in
the
safety
of
children
and
indeed,
all
building
users
being
compromised
kind
of
there.
For
us,
the
cabinet
secretary
were
action.
The
Scottish
government
can
take
to
ensure
all
future
public
building
works
in
the
southwest
Scotland
and
indeed
across
Scotland
and
inspected,
and
thoroughly
checked
to
ensure
they
are
of
the
optimal
health
and
safety
standard
before
they're
signed
off
and
opened
to
children,
teachers
and
the
wider
public
Gabbar.
C
Singh
also
the
health
and
safety
of
workplaces,
a
duty
and
all
owners
and
buildings
to
ensure
that
the
premises
are
safe
and
without
risks
to
health
of
anyone
involved
and,
in
addition
to
that
requirement,
which
applies
across
all
bodies
and
should
apply
across
the
South
in
Scotland
public
sector
bodies.
Procuring
construction
work
must
have
regard
to
Scottish
government
construction
policy,
no.1
oblique
201
2017.
This
provides
guidance
for
contracting
authorities
on
making
appropriate
arrangements
for
the
independent
inspection
of
construction
activities.
C
E
You
say
no,
so
we've
not
had
three
incidents
at
the
new
campus,
despite
assurances
being
given
to
the
council
on
a
number
of
occasions
by
the
private
contractors.
Graham
and
developers
hub
southwest
at
the
buildin
was
safe
and
the
council's
know
how
to
bring
an
independent
third
party
to
check
the
school
which
Meera's,
oh
and
further
problems
being
discovered
and
that
live
issued.
The
extraordinary
statement
that
they've
lost,
complete
confidence
in
both
the
contractor
and
the
develop
developer
can
I
ask
the
Deputy
First
Minister.
C
Carson
today
and
I
made
clear
to
the
chief
executive,
the
local
authority,
when
I
spoke
to
him,
that
I
expected
the
private
contractor
to
be
held
to
account,
because
this
is
a
very,
very
basic,
elementary
stuff
that
no
contractor
should
be
feeling
on
in
terms
of
the
provision
of
a
public
sector
building
so
and
there
are
contractual
arrangements,
the
look
I've
seen
documentary
evidence
of
the
local
authority
being
assured
by
the
private
contractor
and
I'll
quote
from
this.
From
this
letter,
grim
gives
you.
C
This
is
a
local
authority,
an
unequivocal
commitment
to
provide
the
council
with
the
facility
expected
to
have
when
we
entered
into
the
contract.
That
is
an
unequivocal
core
commitment
which
I
would
expect
Grim's
to
be
held
to.
So
in
all
of
these
matters,
I
think
there's
a
pretty
simple
answer,
but
when
people
are
contracted
to
build
buildings
to
certain
standards,
they
should
do
it
and
that
would
save
the
the
pupils
and
the
staff
of
the
Northwest
campus
the
great
deal
of
uncertainty
and
inconvenience
that
they
are
facing.
As
a
consequence
of
these
issues,
Julie.
F
You,
professor
Cole,
also
produced
a
report
which
exposed
the
feelings
and
the
way
that
Dumfries
and
Galloway
council
officers
monitored
the
contractor
said
the
dg1
leisure
center,
which
was
closed
for
safety
reasons.
Does
the
minister
share
my
concerns?
The
lessons
have
not
been
learned
from
that
report.
At.
A
C
It's
important
that
when
a
the
is
material
such
as
the
core
report
produced
that
we
follow
and
observe
laws
and
those
recommendations
and
the
issues
that
are
raised.
What
strikes
me
in
the
information
I've
seen
in
relation
to
the
fishing
gallery
councils
handling
of
this
matter
is
that
they
have
been
given
a
range
of
different
assurances
by
the
contractor
and
they
have
a
sought
to
verify
those
assurances,
and
the
fact
that
we
are
where
we
are
today
demonstrates
that
that
process
has
not
been
as
effective
as
it
should
be.
C
So
I
would
expect
the
fishing
gallery
council
to
be
looking
very
carefully
at
the
material
from
the
Kohl
report
and
particular
in
relation
to
this
process.
Ensuring
that
there
is
effective
scrutiny
put
in
place
to
protect
the
public
interest
and
to
protect
the
safety
of
members
of
staff
and
pupils
at
the
Northwest,
Community,
Campus
and.
G
C
C
Is
there
any
public
authority
that
has
a
responsibility
for
the
construction
of
a
building,
make
sure
that
there
is
the
appropriate
expertise
in
the
bill
and
it
within
the
organization
to
ensure
that
that
process
is
undertake
satisfactorily
and
in
accordance
with
the
requirements
of
statute
and
local
authorities,
and
other
public
bodies
must
take
account
of
their
responsibilities
in
statute
to
ensure
that
their
signing
of
particular
commitments
or
agreements
that
they
have
taken
to
account
of
their
statutory
responsibilities?
In
that
respect,
a
key.
I
Now
this
government
recognizes
us:
does
the
DD
sector
on
the
N
F
us
that
the
issue
of
mill
daily
calves
is
very
complex.
It's
not
a
black-and-white
situation
that
are
currently
meal
daily.
Calves
are
currently
of
Nohr
deal
productive
value
here
in
this
country,
so
they
do
either
end
up
either
being
slaughtered
at
Birth
or
exported
to
other
countries,
including
continental
Europe.
Now
no
one
is
very
comfortable
with
that
situation,
so
we
will
work
with
the
sector
to
look
at
other
options.
I
Now,
I'm
pleased
that
this
government
is
supporting
the
ethical
Duty,
which
is
taking
a
very
different
approach
to
DD
cows
on
their
curves,
but
I
do
want
to
meet
Parliament
aware
today.
The
P&O
Ferries
have
confirmed
that
they
will
no
longer
be
transporting
live.
Calves
from
Scotland,
which
are
destined
for
continental
Europe
they've
said
that
they
were
shocked
by
the
scenes
and
last
night's
BBC
documentary,
and
that
has
what
in
has
influenced
that
decision.
Now.
I
I
too
was
short,
was
short
by
the
scenes
that
we
saw
in
the
documentary
last
night,
but
I
have
to
emphasize
that
there
wasn't
anything
Enda
that
suggested
that
any
harm
had
been
done
or
there
was
any
breach
of
any
welfare
standards
by
anyone.
Transporting
the
calves
from
Scotland
to
Northern,
Ireland
Ireland
or
to
continental
Europe
saw
I
am
concerned
about
the
decision
which
has
been
reached
by
pianore
now.
I
I
will
argent
Li
seek
to
find
out
more
information
about
this,
because,
obviously
we
need
to
determine
that
there
are
no
other
impacts
to
life
transport
of
animals
to
Northern,
Ireland
or
Ireland,
not
indeed
for
the
operation
at
Kieran
Ryan
more
widely.
But
I
do
want
to
reassure
everybody
in
this
chamber
today
and
elsewhere
that
this
government
remains
absolutely
committed
to
ensuring
that
livestock
in
Scotland
are
reared,
transported
and
treated
throughout
their
lives.
Humanely.
H
Cani
welcome
the
minister
to
a
portfolio
and
thank
her
very
thoughtful
and
extensive
reply
and
make
it
Linda
I,
don't
blame
the
farming
community
or
indeed
P
in
your
lines,
were
shipping
to
Northern,
Ireland
and
I
do
understand.
Eu
restrictions
I
am
pleased
to
hear
her
reflect
on
the
ethical
farmers,
such
as
David
and
Wilma
firm
Finlay
run
at
the
farmgate
Chester
fleet.
H
The
question
for
the
government
is
this
and
I
asked
them
this,
whether
they
believe
it
and
this
our
concept
of
animals,
Noah
sentient
being,
has
changed
our
whole
concept
of
animal
welfare,
so
there
remains
white
crates,
widespread
concern
about
the
removal
of
bull
calves,
weeks
old
from
their
mothers
distressing
for
both
transporting
them
in
some
cases
over
six
days,
whether
or
not
you
agree
with
the
conditions
from
Scotland
nor,
of
course,
England
to
be
fattened
and
slaughtered.
So
my
questions
were
Scottish
Congress.
H
In
all
these
circumstances,
notwithstanding
the
welcome
words
of
the
minister
and
I
thought
we
do
make
progress.
Can
our
government
guarantee
the
welfare
of
these
cows
from
removal
from
their
mothers
to
export
through
fattening
to
dispatch
in
which
ever
country
this
takes
place?
That's
the
issue
guaranteeing
their
welfare
throughout
Minister.
A
I
I
So
far
as
far
as
I'm
aware,
there
haven't
been
any
instances
of
this,
but
that
is
exactly
why
we're
undertaking
this
work
to
ensure
that
that
doesn't
happen
now.
I
completely
understand
how
emotive
this
issue
is
that
a
lot
of
strong
feelings
that
under
and
especially
when
we
look
over
when
you
look
at
the
number
of
days
or
the
number
of
hours
that
it's
seen,
that
animals
have
to
be
transported,
but
within
that
I
would
emphasize
as
well
that
half
of
that
time
is
is
taken
for
the
racing
of
the
animals
too.
I
A
H
Thank
you
very
much.
I
didn't
really
hear
a
further
response
to
my
question
about
the
ethical
farming
run
by
the
Finley's
at
gate
house,
because
it
seems
to
me
if
this
is
replicated
throughout
Scotland,
whether
or
not
that
as
a
band
becomes
irrelevant,
because
we
wouldn't
be
using
that
practice
and
ethical
farming,
where
farmers
get
a
proper
price
for
their
milk
produce,
where
the
bull
cows
are
reeled
in
the
farm
till
they're
six
months
old
and
slaughtered
in
Scotland
removes
all
necessity
for
worrying
about
the
transport
and
what
happens
them
once
they
leave
our
shores.
A
I
You
I
mean
I
would
reflect
back
to
my
opening
statement
because
again
the
situation
that
we
have
it
plays
and
is
something
that
no
one
is
happy
with,
because,
ideally,
we
would
have
a
situation
where
animals
are
reared
and
slaughtered
as
close
to
where
they
are
produced
as
possible.
We're
currently
not
in
that
situation,
but
I
mean.
I
That
is
why
I
support
and
the
Scottish
Government
supports
their
ethical
duty
and
why
I
am
keen
to
engage
with
the
daily
industry
and
with
duty
farmers
to
see
if
there
is
something
we
can
do
about
this
and
again,
I
would
be
happy
to
meet
with
members
in
this
chamber
and
again,
I
will
be
looking
to
actively
engage
with
the
daily
sector
so
that
we
can
investigate.
I,
mean
I,
know
that
other
members
probably
will
have
been
sent.
I
A
Okay,
welcome.
We've
always
had
a
very
full
questions
and
very
full
and
detailed
answers
which
I've
see
who
will
be
welcomed
by
all
members.
However,
there
are
five
more
members
there's
clearly
a
huge
amount
of
interest
in
this
subject.
I
think
there's
a
chance
of
getting
through
all
five,
but
if
we
have
succinctly
signatures
we'll
get
through
a
few
Marr
Kruskal.
First
thank.
I
K
You
presiding
officer,
this
Parliament
requires
me
to
make
a
declaration.
My
interest
and
I
wish
to
do
so.
It's
slightly
longer
than
I
would
normally
do
consider
the
emotive
minister
of
this
subject:
I'm
part
of
a
family
partnership
producing
beef
cattle.
We
sell
breeding
cattle,
mainly
within
the
UK
and
Ireland.
The
disclosure
program
aired
last
night
does
not
accrue
a
fret
the
high
standards
of
welfare
within
the
industry
in
Scotland
that
I
have
known
and
worked
in
for
the
39
years
of
my
working
life.
K
A
I
Thank
the
member
for
that
question
and
that
is
again
a
heart
bite
to
this
project
that
we're
currently
undertaking,
because
that
is
exactly
what
we
want
to
do.
I.
We
have
a
played
record
of
animal
welfare
standards
in
Scotland
at
the
moment
and
I
believe
that
this
study
is
the
first
of
its
kind
anywhere
else
in
the
world,
and
we
could
well
learn
lessons
from
that
and
therefore
improve
the
legislation
and
the
regulations
that
we
have
at
the
moment
is
absolutely
a
part
of
my
importance
to
me
that
we
maintain
high
standards
in
Scotland.
I
L
In
this
chamber
on
the
6th
of
June
I
said
to
Fergus
Ewing,
the
concern
is
not
about
direct
exports
from
Scotland,
but
about
Scottish
animals
ending
up
in
Spain
and
North
Africa
for
slaughter.
He
avoided
answering
my
question
check
the
official
report.
There
is
an
alternative
to
slaughtering
calves.
At
a
few.
We
told
that's
to
rear
them
here
for
veal
production
and
to
promote
this
for
the
UK
consumer.
The
minister
just
said
she
will
do
everything
she
can
to
maintain
high
standards.
Could
I
ask?
L
A
I
The
member
for
that
question
and,
as
I
said
in
an
earlier
answer,
I'm
absolutely
open
to
looking
at
all
alternatives
engaging
with
the
industry
to
see
what
we
can
do,
because,
again
it's
a
situation
that
not
everyone
is
happy
where
and
I'm
absolutely
committed
to
doing
that,
engaging
with
the
industry
to
see
how
we
can
move
forward
positively.
Claudia.
A
M
Thank
You
presiding
officer
building
on
the
previous
questions.
Last
night's
BBC
disclosure
program
highlighted,
as
we've
heard,
the
Galloway
farm
of
Wilmer
and
David
Finley,
who
visited
in
South
Scotland,
and
they
do
have
an
ethical
system
and
the
losses
from
the
lower
milk
yield
through
selling
the
the
male
cows
18
months
instead
of
them,
either
being
shot
or
but
at
birth
or
transported
at
up
to
four
weeks,
could
make
up
the
difference.
So
in
in
the
interim.
A
I
I
We
transport
animals
for
bird
eating
as
well,
which
I
believe
is
something
that
not
all
organizations
have
an
issue
with
and
when
it
comes
to
the
ethical
duty
that
a
business
the
idea
to
me
but
I'm,
very
keen
to
meet
with
them
and
to
do
that
as
soon
as
possible
and
again
when
it
comes
to
alternatives,
as
I
said
in
previous
responses,
I'm
happy
to
investigate
this
and
to
look
at
other
alternative
solutions,
so
we
can
find
a
positive
way
forward.
Ok,.
D
You
presiding
officer,
I've
listened
carefully
to
the
Christine
grooms
questions,
as
well
as
the
minister's
response
and
I
would
be
happy
to
introduce
her
to
David
and
one
more
Finley
for
a
visit
to
the
southwest
and
I'm
interested
to
know
whether
the
Minister
is
supporting
the
nfu
Scotland's
call
for
sound
science
and
existing
standards
to
be
the
basis
of
discussions
prior
to
any
changes
to
live.
Export
regulation.
Minister.
A
I
I
talked
to
make
the
Scottish
government
project
that's
currently
under
we
and
I
would
reference
that
again.
That's
exactly
why
we
are
undertaking
that
work
to
see
to
actually
get
all
that
scientific
evidence
to
get
the
data
to
see
what
improvements
we
need
to
make
if
any
and
I
also
gratefully
accept
Emma
Harper's
invitation
to
visit
the
the
ethical
duty
and,
again,
that's
something
I'm
keen
to
do
and
to
look
at
all
these
other
alternatives.