►
Description
Published by the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body.
www.parliament.scot // We do not facilitate discussions on our YouTube page but encourage you to share and comment on our videos on your own channels. // If you would like to join in our conversations please follow @ScotParl on Twitter or like us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/scottishparliament
A
Next
item
of
business
is
to
bid
on
motion
one
main
or
6/1
in
the
name
of
Derek
Mackay
on
the
Scottish
national
investment
bank.
Bill
may
I
ask
those
members
who
wish
to
speak
in
the
debate
to
press
the
request
to
speak
buttons
and
they
call
and
David
McKay
to
speak
to
and
move
the
motion
for
up
to
12
minutes.
Please
cabinet,
secretary,
presiding.
B
Officer
is
with
great
pleasure
that
I
open
this
stage,
one
debate
on
the
Scottish
national
investment
bank
bell,
the
bell
being
considered
today
lays
the
foundation
for
an
institution
that
will
be
a
cornerstone
in
Scotland's
economic
architecture,
one
with
their
capability
and
commitment
to
reshape
our
economy,
making
it
more
inclusive,
more
innovative
and
more
internationally
competitive.
As
a
mission
oriented
day
Linda.
The
bank
will
continue
and
contribute
to
the
major
societal
challenges
facing
us
all.
B
Today,
in
particular,
as
the
First
Minister
has
set
out,
the
bank
will
make
a
significant
contribution
to
work
to
tackle
the
climate,
emergency
and
I'll
come
on
to
that
later.
In
more
detail,
we
want
this
bank
to
be
a
valuable
asset
and
the
Scottish
economy
for
generations
to
come,
and
for
that
to
be
the
case,
the
bank
will
have
to
protect
and
grow
its
portfolio
of
investments
recycling
one
decade
of
success
into
the
next.
B
The
bank
will
therefore
make
investments
that
support
sustainable
and
inclusive
growth
across
Scotland
and
will
be
held
to
account
for
its
delivery
against
the
missions
sake,
for
it
will
also
seek
to
make
a
sufficient
return
on
its
investments
so
that
it
can
cover
its
operating
course
and
not
be
reliant
for
the
long
term
on
the
Scottish
Government
and
therefore
the
Scottish
taxpayer.
In
2017,
the
First
Minister
asked
Ben
Higgins
to
provide
a
blueprint
for
the
government
on
how
to
establish
an
institution
capable
of
transforming
Scotland's
economy.
B
The
implementation
plan
he
produced
articulates
a
clear,
ambitious
vision
for
the
bank
and
provides
that
detailed
roadmap
for
creating
an
institution
that
can
deliver
against
the
vision.
They
would
like
to
personally
thank
Benny
and
his
team
for
their
ambition
and
rigor
in
producing
the
implementation
plan.
Our
proposals
for
the
bank
have
also
strengthened
by
extensive
stakeholder
and
public
engagement
and
we've
run
to
public
consultations.
In
the
last
few
years,
and
more
than
300
people
attended
a
series
of
eight
stakeholder
events
held
across
Scotland
over
the
summer.
B
Throughout
that
engagement
have
been
struck
by
that
level
of
excitement
about
our
vision
for
the
bank
and
its
potential
to
transform
Scotland's
economy.
In
a
wish
to
thank
those
who
engaged
with
us
in
creating
this
bill
and
helping
to
lay
the
foundation
for
a
bank
that
will
deliver
for
businesses
and
communities
across
Scotland,
we
will
continue
to
engage
widely
as
we
work
to
establish
the
bank
as
it
progresses,
and
also
like
to
thank
the
economy,
energy
and
Fair
Work
committee
for
their
very
thoughtful
and
constructive
scrutiny
of
the
bill.
B
The
committee
recommends
that
the
Parliament
agrees
to
their
general
principles
of
the
bail,
that's
a
relief
presiding
officer,
but
I've
made
of
a
number
of
a
very
helpful
suggestions
as
well
in
recognising
that
the
bank
must
be
independent
but
accountable
and
permanent,
but
adaptable.
The
committee
demonstrates
a
clear
appreciation
for
the
type
of
institution
that
we
collectively
wish
to
create
a
presiding
officer.
The
Scottish
economy
is
one
that
enjoys
significant
strengths,
a
whether
it's
around
employment
or
the
proportion
of
employees
in
the
UK
paid.
B
The
living
wage
and
growing
demands
for
our
exports
all
demonstrate
our
economic
resilience,
but
it
is
important
to
acknowledge
that
there
remains
significant
work
to
do
to
release
the
untapped
potential
of
Scotland's
economy.
The
2019-20
programme
for
government
say
it's
so
ambitious
and
progressive
sets
of
proposals.
B
These
measures
include
increased
investment
and
skills
and
physical
and
digital
infrastructure.
These
measures
can
improve
productivity,
boost
exports
and
help
make
Scotland
a
globally
competitive
place
to
do
business.
Business
investment
levels
are
law
and
their
potential
for
growth.
It
has
been
curbed,
Scotland's,
business
expenditure
and
research
and
development
and
innovation
performance
is
behind
that
of
other
European
nations.
B
Productivity
growth
in
key
sectors,
whilst
outperforming
the
UK,
also
remain
modest.
These
factors
point
to
the
need
for
a
new
investor
in
the
Scottish
economy
when,
with
patience
and
the
strategic
oversight
to
reinforce
and
enhance
Scotland's
position
as
a
dynamic
and
innovative
economy,
the
case
were
establishing
the
bank
is
even
stronger
today
than
it
was
when
it
was
first
announced
enough.
2017
program
for
government,
patient
and
strategic
investment
will
be
vital
if
were
to
mitigate
some
of
the
damaging
impacts
which
are
forecast.
B
As
a
result
of
the
UK
exiting
the
EU
só
presiding
officer
earlier
this
year,
the
First
Minister
acknowledged
that
Scotland,
like
the
rest
of
the
world,
faces
a
climate
emergency.
This
year's
programme
for
governments
say
our
response
and
lays
the
foundations
for
a
new
Scottish
Green
Deal.
So
the
Scottish
national
investment
bank
will
also
have
a
role
to
play,
and
the
First
Minister
has
confirmed
that
the
bank's
primary
mission
will
be
securing
the
transition
to
a
near
zero
economy.
B
It
is
vital
that
the
bank
is
an
institution
which
complements
the
existing
investment
landscape
here
in
Scotland,
one
that
clouds
in
rattling
crowds
out
private
sector
investors.
So
we
believe
that
capitalizing,
the
bank,
to
the
tune
of
two
billion
pounds,
represents
an
ambitious,
yet
achievable.
Level
of
funding
enables
the
bank
to
have
a
transformative
impact
on
the
Scottish
economy,
whilst
ensuring
absolutely
in
just
a
moment
that
it
doesn't
displace
the
activity
of
existing
private
sector
lenders,
I
give
away
Dean
lockhardt.
Thank.
C
B
B
Indeed,
in
its
stage
one
report,
the
committee
has
acknowledged
that
the
two
billion
pounds
over
ten
years
that
we've
committed
to
to
capitalize
the
bank-
it
represents
a
very
good
starting
point.
Presenting
also
the
bail
we
are
debating
today
is
an
enabling
piece
of
legislation.
It
pleases
a
duty
on
Scottish
Ministers,
to
establish
the
bank
as
a
public
limited
company
and
gives
ministers
the
necessary
powers
to
capitalize
the
bank.
The
bill
also
enshrines
our
role
for
Parliament
by
ensuring
that
parliamentary
approval
is
needed
before
any
changes
to
the
provision
in
the
banks.
B
Articles
of
association
and
I'm
pleased
that
the
committee
has
been
supportive
of
the
general
approach
that
we
have
taken
the
recommendations
say
out
in
committee
stage.
One
report
are
welcome
and
constructive
and
I've
provided
a
written
response
to
the
committee
accepting
many
of
the
recommendations
and
for
the
benefit
of
members
through
our
plays
and
I'll
briefly
say
out
some
key
parts
of
that
response.
The
government
has
accepted
the
committee's
recommendations
that
the
bank
role
in
achieving
social
and
environmental
value
alongside
financial
returns
are
clarified.
B
B
We've
also
accepted
the
Committee's
recommendation
to
consider
potential
stage,
2
amendments
to
provide
for
a
process
by
which
Parliament
can
be
formally
consulted
on
future
missions
as
well.
So
the
committee
also
made
recommendations
regarding
the
role
and
membership
of
the
advisory
group.
It.
The
government
has
accepted
the
recommendation
that
the
chair
of
the
advisory
not
be
a
member
of
the
bank's
board
and
I
can
also
clarify
that
the
role
of
the
group
will
be
to
advise
ministers
and
not
the
bank
itself.
We
do,
however,
have
concerns
about
providing
for
the
Advisory
Group
in
the
bills.
B
B
So
in
conclusion,
presiding
officer,
the
establishment
of
the
Scottish
national
investment
bank
will
be
a
substantial
good
for
the
economy
and
therefore
the
people
of
Scotland
and
today's
debate
as
a
key
staging
post
along
the
way
to
creating
that
long-standing
institution
in
the
Scottish
economy
capable
of
driving
the
positive
changes
that
we
all
want
to
see.
So
I
look
forward
to
debate
and
I'm,
therefore
very
pleased
to
move
that
the
Scottish
Parliament
agrees
to
the
general
principles
of
the
Scottish
national
investment
bank,
bail.
A
D
You,
deputy
presiding
officer,
what
in
the
name
the
Scottish
National
Investment
Bank,
certainly
has
Scottish
in
it.
The
intention
is
that
it's
reached
by
national
and
its
purpose
will
be
investment,
but
this
is
not
a
bank,
at
least
not
a
retail
bank,
as
one
witness
told
us
and
I
quote
essentially.
Snip
is
an
example
of
that
great
Scottish
invention
the
investment
trust.
It
is
not
really
a
bank,
so
the
bill
to
enable
the
bank.
That's
not
really.
A
bank
is
not
quite
the
whole
story
either.
D
As
the
cabinet
secretary
has
indicated,
much
of
the
detail
is
to
be
found
elsewhere
in
the
articles
of
association
and
various
other
supporting
materials
strategies,
plans,
frameworks,
charts
and
some
of
these
documents
are
still
in
draft
form
or
will
be
left
for
the
bank
itself
to
devise.
I
shall
not
try
to
cover
everything
we
had
to
say
about
the
bill
as
a
committee
about
the
the
bill
itself
for
these
other
component
parts,
but
let
me
focus
on
some
aspects,
patience
and
purpose,
inclusive
growth
and
missions.
D
D
D
Hopes
for
what
the
bank
can
achieve
are
vertiginous
Lehigh,
but
we
must
look
beyond
the
short-termism
and
limited
perspective
of
the
electorate
electoral
cycle
as
one
witness
Peter.
We
are
constantly
faced
with
people
trying
to
rewire
the
building
with
the
power
still
switched
on
I'm,
not
sure
that
that
might
also
be
applied
to
Westminster
at
the
minute,
but
in
any
event,
another
witness
cautioned
against
criticism.
D
In
the
first
few
years,
advising
most
of
the
bad
news
comes
early,
the
lemons
ripened
before
the
plums
and
if
I
may
throw
another
metaphor
into
the
mix,
we
were
told
there
will
be
red
ink
spilled
in
its
annual
reports
and
the
counts
every
year
until
2023.
If
you
want
long
term
patient
capital,
you
have
to
have
long
term
patient
investors.
D
Now
the
economist,
Mariana
mizzou
Cato
underlined
the
importance
of
finding
the
right
partners
those
able
to
subscribe
to
the
mission
oriented
ethos
rather
than
just
sorry,
quoting
her
rather
than
just
hand
out
machines.
She
favored
those
public
banks
which
quote
picked
the
willing,
not
the
winners.
She
also
told
us,
the
bank
is
a
wonderful
experiment
in
Scotland
to
see
precisely
what
it
would
be
like
to
transform
our
imagination
of
what
the
public
sector
is
for.
D
The
committee
was
not
convinced
that
the
language
of
the
bill
matches
that
aim
for
the
bank
to
be
transformative.
We
ask
the
Scottish
Government
to
reflect
on
the
wording
of
the
objects
set
out
in
section
2
in
the
Cabinet
Secretary
has
already
referred
to
this.
We
also
invited
consideration
of
how
non-financial
returns
can
be
anchored
in
the
bill.
D
The
use
of
a
balanced
scorecard
was
mentioned
in
an
earlier
document,
the
implementation
plan.
However,
it
does
not
feature
in
the
bill
or
anywhere
else.
The
Scottish
Government
has
said
it
would
bring
forward
amendments
at
stage
2
to
address
these
points,
and
the
committee
welcomes
that
undertaking
the
bills.
Equality's
impact
assessment
should
also
be
mentioned,
as
it
was
not
so
well-received
by
some.
D
This
brings
us
then,
to
the
theme
of
inclusive
growth.
A
term
frequently
used
in
policy
speak
but
subject
to
considerable
interpretation,
and
indeed
the
committee
has
highlighted
as
much
in
numerous
pieces
of
work.
This
session,
researched
by
IPPR
Scotland
on
behalf
of
the
poverty
and
inequality
Commission
was
published
in
June.
It
stated,
and
I
quote,
the
Scottish
government
and
its
agencies
could
be
clearer
and
more
consistent
in
their
definition
of
inclusive
growth
and
demonstrate
how
this
applied
definition
translates
into
practice.
D
We,
as
a
committee,
recommended
the
Scottish
Government,
give
careful
consideration
to
these
research
findings,
particularly
how
it
can
translate
the
theory
into
a
clearer
vision
with
tangible
delivery.
Our
concern
is
that,
with
a
clarity,
the
bank
will
focus
or
could
focus
only
on
financial
returns.
D
So
we
welcome
the
positive
response
in
the
form
of
the
fairer
Scotland
Duty
assessment,
which
is
yet
another
document
in
a
crowded
field,
but
one
that
recommends
and
I
quote
the
Scottish
Government
review.
The
ancillary
objects
contained
with
contained
within
the
bill
utilising
its
position
as
a
cornerstone
in
Scotland's
economic
architecture,
to
shape
an
economy
that
is
diverse,
democratic
and
which
enhances
societal
well-being.
D
D
Indeed,
we
shall
we
called
for
the
Parliament
to
have
an
input
to
the
formulation
of
the
missions,
not
just
a
round
table
approach
useful
as
that
can
be,
but
a
formal
consultation
process
to
something
akin
to
those
mechanisms
which
have
been
devised
for
climate
change
and
planning
legislation
and
the
Scottish
Government
said
it
will
and
I
quote,
give
consideration
to
bringing
forward
amendments
to
this
effect.
I
rather
hope
that
that
is
a
non-committal
way
of
committing,
but
maybe
I'm
miss
reading
the
coded
language
of
bureaucracy.
D
It
was
Bob
Hope,
who
said
a
bank
is
a
place
that
will
he
lend
you
money
if
you
can
prove
that
you
don't
need
it
well,
what
is
envisaged
for
the
s
and
IB
runs
very
much
counter
to
that
caricature.
It
is
intended
to
be
a
public
bank
to
drive
transformative
change,
one
that
is
intended
to
be
independent
but
accountable
and
permanent,
but
adaptable
with
a
long-term
patient
view,
and
to
that
end
we
set
out
in
our
committee
report
nineteen
recommendations.
D
So
there
are
several
areas
with
Scottish.
Government
has
undertaken,
as
already
said,
to
bring
forward
stage
two
amendments,
and
we
shall
study
the
detail
of
these
in
due
course.
We
also
look
forward
to
further
engagement
on
the
parliaments
role
in
framing
the
bank's
missions,
but
on
this
basis
we
do
recommend
the
general
principles
of
the
bill
be
approved
and
I
look
forward
to
other
contributors
to
this
debate.
Thank
you.
I.
C
You
very
much
deputy
presiding
officer.
Let
me
start
by
saying
we
agree
with
the
objectives
underlying
the
establishment
of
the
bank
and
we
will
be
supporting
the
motion
today.
We
agreed
that
Scot
the
needs
more
long-term
patient
capsule
that
firms
looking
to
expand
need
more
support
and
that
we
need
to
see
a
transfer
transformational
change
in
Scotland's
economy.
Just
last
week
we
had
confirmation
that
Scotland's
economy
is
contracting
growing
at
half
of
the
rate
of
the
rest
of
the
UK
economy.
Productivity
continues
to
lag
in
the
third
division.
C
Wages
and
tax
revenues
are
falling
further
behind
the
rest
of
the
UK,
resulting
in
a
record
fiscal
deficit
in
Scotland
higher
than
any
other
country
in
Europe.
So
the
need
for
transformation
to
reverse
Scotland's
decline
into
a
low
growth.
Low
wage
economy
is
clearer
than
ever
and
Development
Bank's
can
make
this
transformational
change.
There
are
clear
examples
in
Singapore,
Germany
and
elsewhere,
but
this
can
only
happen
when
the
Development
Bank
is
part
of
a
coherent
economic
policy
framework
and
has
absolute
clarity
on
strategy
and
objectives.
C
This
was
recognised
in
this
chamber
last
year
when
we
first
debated
the
bank,
when
an
all-party
motion
agreed
that
a
cluttered
policy
landscape
leads
to
confusion,
a
lack
of
alignment,
duplication
and
weakened
accountability
agreed
by
all
MSPs
and
that's
the
overriding
concern
we
have
about
this
legislation,
not
the
draft
bill
itself,
which
is
enabling
legislation
but
the
context.
The
policy
context
within
which
the
bank
is
being
introduced,
the
ongoing
confusion,
clutter
duplication
and
lack
of
alignment
which
characterizes
this
government's
approach
to
the
economy
and
which
means
there
is
a
real
risk.
C
The
bank
will
fail
to
meet
its
ambitious
objectives.
Section
2
of
the
draft
bill
states
that
the
bank
must
invest
in
inclusive
economic
growth,
but
evidence
given
to
the
committee
has
time
and
again
shown
there
is
fundamental
confusion
over
this
policy
of
inclusive
growth.
According
to
scholars
enterprise,
what
the
concept
means
to
one
person
is
different
from
what
it
means
to
another.
There
is
no
single
measure
of
inclusive
growth
according
to
Highlands
and
Islands
Enterprise.
C
We
agree
that
inclusive
growth
is
difficult
to
measure
and
a
leading
economist
made
the
observation
we
do
not
have
a
firm
handle
on
inclusive
growth
if
inclusive
growth
is
to
be
a
central
part
of
the
bank's
objectives.
The
Scottish
Government
must
clarify
precisely
what
it
means
and
how
it
will
be
measured
and
not
just
for
the
bank
itself.
I
will
in
a
second
not
just
for
the
bank
itself,
but
for
other
enterprise
agencies
so
that
they
are
all
aligned
in
their
economic
targets.
I'll
give
me
Joanie's.
A
E
Think
very
much
for
giving
way.
I
just
wonder
if
the
overstates
the
case
slightly,
because
there
is
broad
agreement
on
a
lot
of
things.
For
example,
Scottish
enterprising
hie
have
not
been
very
good
at
bringing
women
into
growing
businesses
and
encouraging
them
and
I.
Think
everyone
across
the
chamber
agrees
that
that
is
part
of
the
inclusive
growth
who
want
to
see.
C
I
did
to
mr.
Mason
when
he
was
a
member
of
the
committee.
He
also
had
evidence
from
many
witnesses
that
inclusive
growth
has
a
concept,
means
different
things
to
different
people
and
I'm,
a
great
believer
that
if
you
can't
measure
something
you
can't
manage
it
and
I
think
that's
the
part
of
the
confusion
around
the
objectives
of
the
bank.
The
guidance
I'm
talking
about
doesn't
need
to
be
in
the
the
legislation
itself.
C
It
can
be
in
the
form
of
public
guidance
to
all
enterprise
agencies,
but
we
look
forward
to
the
cabinet
secretary
clarifying
what
the
centerpiece
of
his
economic
strategy
actually
means.
The
committee
also
had
concerns
over
the
costs
involved
in
setting
up
and
running
the
bank,
with
the
Royal
Society
of
Embera,
giving
evidence
to
that.
The
25
million
pounds
annual
running
costs
are,
in
their
words
very
high.
C
This
25
million
pounds
is
in
addition
to
the
120
million
pounds
of
operating
costs
of
the
other
enterprise
agencies,
meaning
that
the
Scottish
taxpayer
is
spending
150
million
pounds
a
year
in
running
costs
for
those
agencies
before
a
single
penny
is
invested
in
the
economy.
So
we
need
to
ensure
we
see
a
real
return
on
this
investment
of
all
the
liens
which
the
British
business
bank
delivers
for
the
UK
Treasury,
which
has
a
target
rate
a
target
with
rate
of
return
of
over
2.5
percent.
C
Again,
this
target
does
not
need
to
be
part
of
the
formal
legislation,
but
we
need
to
have
clear
targets
to
monitor
the
medium
and
long
term
performance
of
the
bank
once
it
is
up
and
running,
and
on
that
point,
I
agree
with
the
cabinet
secretary.
The
targets
should
only
apply
once
the
bank
is
up
and
running.
C
C
This
therefore
raises
the
question
of
whether
the
existing
enterprise
agencies
are
properly
resourced
and
fully
able
to
deliver
this
transformational
increase
in
business
investment
and
we're
yet
to
see
a
convincing
plan
or
evidence
from
the
Scottish
government
that
it
has
a
delivery
plan
in
place
either
through
the
bank
or
through
the
enterprise
agencies,
to
identify
this
transformation
in
demand
in
the
economy.
The
cabinet
sector
also
needs
to
confirm
whether
the
budget
of
the
enterprise
agencies
will
be
increased
to
deal
with
the
extra
demands
placed
upon
them.
C
Let
me
turn
to
these
strategic
missions
of
the
bank.
The
programme
for
government
announced
that
securing
the
transition
to
Net
Zero
near
zero
will
be
the
bank's
primary
mission,
and
a
key
element
of
the
bank's
work
will
be
to
help
shape
and
deliver
commercially
investable
low-carbon
markets.
We
agree
with
those
missions,
but
again
we
need
to
see
details
of
how
this
is
going
to
be
delivered,
because
the
SMP
has
failed
over
the
past
twelve
years
to
deliver
real
economic
benefits
and
jobs
from
the
low-carbon
markets.
This
was
made
clear
by
this
2e.
C
You
see
earlier
this
year
when
I
highlighted
the
negative
bounce
of
trade
in
the
low-carbon
sector,
which
Scotland
has
we
import
230
million
pounds
more
of
low-carbon
in
the
low-carbon
economy
than
we
export
so
again,
I
look
forward
to
hearing
from
the
cabinet
secretary
on
how
the
Scottish
Government
will
avoid
repeating
the
same
mistakes
of
the
past.
In
respect
of
the
development
of
low
carbon
markets,
the
presiding
officer,
we
will
be
lodging
additional
amendments
to
the
draft
legislation,
amendments
which
will
bring
the
legislation
in
line
with
best
practice
and
how
the
British
business
bank
operates.
C
This
will
include
the
requirement
in
Section
12
for
the
Scottish
government
to
consult
with
and
seek
agreement
with
the
bank's
board
of
directors
before
any
change
is
made
to
these
strategic
missions.
We
believe
and
agree
the
bank
should
operate
independently
and
any
change
in
mission
should
only
be
following
consultation
and
following
seeking
agreement,
the
bank's
Board
of
Directors.
In
conclusion,
we
will
support
the
establishment
of
the
bank
at
stage
1,
but
we
will
also
call
on
the
Scottish
Government
to
provide
specific
assurances
in
the
legislation
and
otherwise
to
address
the
concerns
we
will
outline
today.
F
Thank
You
deputy
presiding
officer
in
this
debate
this
afternoon,
the
Scottish
Labour
Party,
is
making
the
case
for
the
active
state,
the
innovative
state
for
the
developmental
stage.
That's
our
guiding
principle
and
that's
our
call
to
action
in
considering
this
bill.
We
do
not
simply
want,
and
the
people
of
this
country
do
not
simply
want
a
residual
state
which
is
reactive,
which
steps
in
only
at
the
point
of
market
failure.
F
We
need
a
different
allocation
of
resources
than
would
simply
be
delivered
by
the
market,
and
that
is
what
the
establishment
of
a
Scottish
national
investment
bank
should
be
about.
So
the
purpose
of
the
bank
that
we
must
create
with
this
legislation
cannot
simply
be
about
the
best
rate
of
financial
return
and
the
best
rate
of
financial
return
alone.
It
must
be
ethical,
it
must
take
account
of
the
strategic
interests
of
the
wider
economy.
Like
the
urgent
need
to
tackle
climate
change,
it
must
be
empowered
to
help
build
a
more
equal
and
a
more
democratic
economy.
F
So
the
Scottish
labor
party
wants
intervention
which
is
developmental,
not
defensive,
which
is
industrially
radical,
not
industrially
conservative,
and
we
want
to
lock
in
the
public
ownership
status
of
the
bank
so
that
there
can
be
no
repeat
of
the
green
investment
bank
sell-off.
This
Parliament
must
learn
the
lessons
of
that
initiative
in
the
financial
memorandum
to
accompany
this
bill.
The
government
claims
that
their
level
of
capitalization
is
and
I
quote
them
both
ambitious
and
achievable.
F
Well,
there
is
little
doubt
that
it
is
achievable.
Of
course
it
is,
but
it
lacks
ambition.
Two
billion
pounds
to
capitalize
the
bank
over
ten
years
may
seem
like
a
lot,
but
it
represents
less
than
1.4
percent
of
a
rise
in
overall
Scottish
business
investment
per
year,
so
labour
is
proposing
in
our
plans
for
a
uk-wide
National
Investment
Bank
20
billion
pounds
over
ten
years
available
for
industrial
investment
in
Scotland.
That's
the
kind
of
transformative
change.
That's
the
kind
of
step
change
that
the
Scottish
economy
needs.
F
F
The
bank
should
be
answerable
to
ministers.
Of
course
it
should,
but
it
should
be
answerable
and
fully
accountable
to
this
Parliament
as
well.
Its
strategic
framework,
the
setting
of
the
bank's
goals,
its
performance
objectives
and
the
monitoring
of
them
must
be
subject
to
parliamentary
scrutiny,
and
so
public
scrutiny,
as
well
as
ministerial
scrutiny.
The
main
board
and
the
advisory
board
should
be
gender
balanced,
and
it
should
reflect
the
diversity
of
our
society,
and
both
boards
should
contain
trade
union
and
industrial
voices
in
significant
measure,
not
talking
seats
but
meaningful
representation.
We
net.
F
We
need
to
set
clear
guidance
on
maximum
salary
ratios
in
the
new
bank,
so
that
the
ratio
of
the
chief
executives,
remuneration,
not
just
salary,
but
overall
remuneration
should
be
limited,
perhaps
to
no
greater
than
20
times,
that
of
the
lowest
paid
worker
and,
arguably,
significantly
less.
It
was
John
Maynard
Keynes
who
said
when
the
capital
development
of
a
country
becomes
the
byproduct
of
the
activities
of
a
casino.
The
job
is
likely
to
be
ill
done
and
he
was
right.
So
we
welcome
an
alternative
to
the
model
of
dispersed
ownership
and
share
listings.
F
An
alternative
to
the
model
based
on
financial
institution
is
looking
for
a
quick
return
and
the
ever
constant
threat
of
takeover.
Everyone
has
agreed
that
we
need
longer
time
horizons
and
more
patient
capital
that
we
need
industrial
interests
to
predominate,
not
the
commercial
interests
of
the
City
of
London.
We
need
to
rebalance
the
economy
and
tackle
the
highly
centralized
UK
economy.
F
We
will
not
solve
every
problem
in
the
Scottish
economy
with
this
bill
and
the
establishment
of
a
national
investment
bank
for
Scotland,
and
we
need
to
make
sure
that
this
is
not
another
government
proposal
overflowing
with
spin
but
underwhelming
with
substance.
This
bill
nonetheless
represents
a
starting
point
and
it's
the
starting
point
that
we
can
improve
upon.
We
can
establish
your
bank,
which
is
accountable.
We
can
establish
a
bank
that
has
clear
objects
whose
overarching
aim
is
to
build
the
economy
from
the
bottom
up.
F
G
Thanks
very
much
presiding
officer
and
Greene's
support
the
establishment
of
the
National
Investment
Bank.
We
have
an
economy
which,
over
the
last
40
years,
has
been
run
in
the
interest
of
private
capital
rather
than
the
public
interest,
an
economy
where
the
return
to
labor
over
the
past
20
years
is
declined
in
relationship
to
the
return
to
capital
and
an
economy
where
the
public
sector,
both
a
local
level,
has
been
in
retreat,
has
lost
the
means,
the
will
and
the
courage
to
take
his
proper
role
in
the
economy
to
advance
the
public
interest.
G
A
presenting
officer
greens
have
set
out
the
broad
parameters
in
recent
weeks
of
a
Scottish,
green
New,
Deal
and
central
to
this
is
the
need
for
investment
in
new
growing
green
economy
and
the
role
of
the
Scottish
national
investment
bank
therefore,
should
be
central
to
delivering
that,
and
with
that
in
mind,
we
would
like
to
see
some
changes
to
the
bill,
including
the
following.
First
of
all,
a
clearer
articulation
of
the
purpose.
The
committee
remains
to
be
persuaded
that
the
language
of
the
bill
fully
matches
the
ambitions
for
the
bank
to
be
transformative.
G
Indeed,
in
the
implementation
plan,
the
original
vision
was
for
a
bank
that
would
would
be
responsible
for
a
step
change
in
growth
for
the
Scottish
economy,
by
powering
innovation
and
accelerating
the
move
to
low-carbon,
high-tech,
connected
globally
competitive
and
inclusive
economy.
Now,
I,
don't
personally
agree
with
those
words
our
world
just
in
one
second,
but
the
point
is
that
there's
no
vision
set
out
in
the
bill
and
that
needs
to
be
addressed
I,
give
way
to
the
Cabinet
Secretary
Derek.
B
Would
remember,
though,
except
that
the
enabling
legislation
takes
us
so
far
in
ensuring
that
the
foundations
of
the
balla
they
are
provided
for
in
law,
but
that
is
far
more
scope
for
that
transformative,
language
and
vision
and
purpose
to
feature
and
all
the
other
documentation
that
will
drive
the
banks.
So
is,
as
arguably
its
absence
in
the
legislation
as
a
nature
of
legislation,
but
must
be
there
and
the
other
associated
documents
to
drive
that
transformation
and
the
white
men.
Another
seek
Andy.
G
Actually,
for
that
I
mean
accent
important
to
be.
We
could
have
it
stage
two
about
how
much
of
this
language
might
be
included
in
the
bill.
I
take
the
point.
Very
much
is
the
very
framework
bill
that
just
tells
ministers
to
set
up
a
PLC
but
I
think
there's
more.
We
could
do
on
the
face
of
the
bill
to
reflect.
Some
of
the
ambition
been
noted
that
this
will
deliver
on
climate.
G
As
the
cabinet
secretary
noted
in
the
program
for
government,
the
First
Minister
states
that
securing
the
transition
to
Net
Zero
will
be
the
bank's
primary
mission,
and
we
of
course
agree
with
that
and
that
spiteful.
Therefore,
in
our
view,
that
that
objective
is
set
out
clearly
in
the
face
of
the
bill,
both
in
section
two
on
the
banks,
articles
of
association
and
in
section
11
on
missions
and
I'd,
be
grateful
if
the
cabinet
secretary
could
comment
on
this
in
winding
up
or
the
Minister.
G
Indeed,
another
area
we'd
like
to
discuss
some
changes
are
in
section
1
of
the
bill,
so
the
bill
provides
a
sole
member
of
the
bank
shall
be
Scottish
Ministers.
Now
the
cabinet
secretary
be
aware
that
the
German
public
Development
Bank
FW
is
80
percent
owned
by
the
federal
government
and
20
percent
by
the
States.
G
Now,
given
the
vital
role
that
local
government
plays
and
will
continue
to
play
in
tackling
climate
change
in
promoting
economic
development,
there's
a
good
argument
for
them
to
have
a
stake
in
the
bank
and
I'd
welcome
the
minister's
view
on
that
on
missions.
We
certainly
agree,
of
course,
the
transition
to
net
0
be
incorporated,
but
we
also
believe
it
should
be
a
statutory
mission
on
the
face
of
the
bill
and,
more
generally,
it's
notable
of
while
any
changes
to
the
banks.
Articles
of
association
set
out
in
the
bill
can
only
be
amended
with
parliamentary
approval.
G
The
missions
are
to
be
set
solely
by
Scottish
Ministers,
with
no
parliamentary
involvement
and
the
cabinet
sector
said
in
his
opening
remarks.
They
intends
to
bring
forward
amendments
that
would
allow
Parliament
to
be
consulted
in
those.
We
think
that
any
mission,
however,
should
be
subject
to
a
vote
and
parliamentary
approval
in
Parliament,
just
as
changes
to
the
memo
and
arts
would
be,
and
finally
presiding
officer
on
ethics
and
equalities.
The
character
committee
highlighted
the
poor
quality
of
the
quality
impact
assessment
and
also,
whilst
an
ethical
basis
for
investment,
was
recommended.
An
implementation
plan.
G
There's
no
provision
in
the
bill,
so
we
suggested
could
be
overcome
by
the
incorporation
of
an
ethics
and
equalities
committee.
In
section
9
of
the
bill,
presiding
officer
greens
support
this
bank
and
this
bill
there's
more
work
to
be
doing
to
be
done,
but
we'll
vote
for
the
motion
this
evening.
Thank
you.
H
Thank
You
deputy
presenting
off
so
the
impact
of
brakes,
they're
setting
investment
jobs
and
living
standards.
We
saw
that
in
the
Warfel
GDP
figures
last
week,
which
mirrored
figures
for
the
rest
of
the
United
Kingdom
and
break
that
hasn't
even
happened.
Yet
it
shows
why,
for
the
sake
of
our
economy,
jobs,
livelihoods
and
public
services,
we
do
need
to
stop
brexit,
but
here
opportunities
to
invest
and
talents
of
our
people
through
education
and
mental
health
have
been
missed.
Government
initiative
after
government
initiative
has
failed
to
deliver
a
kickstart
to
the
economy.
H
The
Scottish
national
investment
bank
must
be
different,
not
at
least
for
the
sake
of
the
planet.
The
programme
for
government
greatly
committed
to
putting
the
transition
to
net
zero
at
the
heart
of
the
bank's
work,
but
that
primary
mission
needs
to
be
properly
reflected
in
the
legislation
underpinning
it,
as
well
as
the
depth
and
breadth
of
its
work.
We've
already
heard
the
committee
concluded
that
the
language
of
the
bill
with
something
to
be
desired.
It
said
it
wasn't
persuaded
it
matches
the
ambitions
for
the
Scottish
national
investment
bank
to
be
transformative.
H
As
friends
of
the
earth
pointed
out,
the
legislation
in
its
current
form
doesn't
mention
climate
change
once
the
bank
is
to
focus
not
just
on
fixing
market
failures,
but
also
creating
and
shaping
new
markets
and
tackling
societal
changes.
There
is
no
bigger
challenge
than
the
climate
emergency.
It
needs
to
help
drive
the
transition
away
from
carbon
dependent
industries.
It
should
be
able
to
make
a
distinct
approach
to
risk
management,
with
an
appetite
to
absorb
some
of
the
rest
that
developing
green
industries
are
vulnerable
to
and
the
promise
to
begin.
H
Investing
in
2020
needs
to
be
kept.
The
Scottish
growth
scheme
took
forever
to
pay
out
a
penny,
but
the
climate
cannot
wait.
We
know
how
important
it
is
to
turn
around
the
situation
just
within
the
next
few
years.
We
know
the
Scottish
Government's
action
is
going
to
have
to
step
up
a
gear.
After
parliamentary
after
Parliament
yesterday
agreed
to
Lima
Catherine
and
Claudia
Bhima.
She
is
bed
to
strengthen
the
interim
emissions
targets.
Other
countries
are
already
investing
accordingly
kfw,
which
already
be
mentioned.
H
The
national
investment
bank
in
Germany
once
focused
on
post-war
reconstruction,
no
has
climate
change
and
the
environment
as
one
of
essential
missions
and
under
my
party's
plans,
the
Scottish
Bank
would
be
complemented
by
a
new
UK
wide
green
investment
bike.
We
set
up
one
before
only
for
the
Conservatives
to
sell
it
off.
The
replacement
will
channel
investment
into
zero
carbon
infrastructure
for
power,
heat
transport
and
afforestation.
I
want
the
UK
to
be
the
green
finance
capital
of
the
world.
The
principles
of
the
Scottish
national
investment
bank
have
been
outlined.
H
The
bank
itself
is
expected
to
pay
the
living
wage,
but
I
would
be
grateful
if
the
minister
could
provide
reassurance
today
on
whether
it
will
provide
finance
to
companies
that
do
not
pay
the
living
wage.
I
don't
want
to
see
a
repeat
of
what
happened
with
Amazon
being
given
millions
of
pounds
of
public
money
of
turning
a
blind
eye
to
the
needs
of
its
workers.
H
It
is
expected
that
the
bank
will
develop
a
code
of
ethics
that
goes
beyond
regulatory
requirements
and
adopts
a
best
practice
approach,
but
will
payment
of
the
living
wage
be
incorporated
into
that
code
and
not
just
for
the
banks?
All
workers
could
it
be
put
on
the
face
of
the
bill,
for
example,
because
healthy
employment
practices
lead
to
a
healthier
economy
as
well
in
the
course
of
promoting
inclusive
growth?
Yes,
certainly
cabinet.
B
Secretary
in
an
aim
to
be
helpful,
there
are
many
matters
that
are
right
to
proposed,
but
may
not
necessarily
fit
within
the
mitii
legislation,
for
example,
definition
11
wage,
but
should
absolutely
be
considered
in
other
places
in
places
to
achieve
the
same
outcome
of
ensuring
payment
of
the
living
wage.
But
maybe
the
the
primary
legislation
is
not
the
appropriate
place
to
put
it,
but
the
desirability
of
that
outcome
should
be
can
said
that
they
also.
We
are
willing.
I
H
New
and
overdue
to
have
a
discussion
about
the
bank,
and
perhaps
we
can
go
into
some
of
those
details
as
to
why
it
would
not
be
appropriate
to
go
on
the
face
and
the
bill,
but
I'm
grateful
for
the
ministers
it
guarantees
as
such
as
they
are
in
that
he's.
Given
today
in
the
course
of
promoting
inclusive
growth,
the
bank,
like
the
rest
of
us,
will
be
faced
with
the
challenge
of
automation
and
what
that
means
for
jobs
in
the
future.
H
It
was
brought
into
focus
again
this
week,
Dame
Deirdre
Hutton,
the
head
of
the
Civil
Aviation
Authority,
said
that
Thomas
Cook
was
operating
on
brochures,
whereas
everyone
else
had
moved
on
to
barcodes,
and
the
demise
of
Thomas
Cook
will
lead
to
a
fresh
focus
on
the
future
of
our
high
streets.
More
customer-facing
jobs
will
go.
There
will
be
more
empty
units.
The
Federation
of
small
business
Scotland
have
suggested
that,
under
its
inclusive
growth
machine,
the
bank
support
efforts
to
protect
the
vibrancy
of
local
communities.
H
I
J
You
for
signing
off
so
I'm
pleased
to
have
been
called
to
speak
in
this
stage.
One
debate
this
afternoon
on
the
Scottish
national
investment
bank
bill.
This
is
indeed
a
landmark
bill
for
it.
We
see
Scott
enjoying
the
growing
number
of
countries
which
have
set
up
their
own
national
investment
banks
and
I
think
it
has
been
recognized
that
the
drive
to
do
so
has
been
laid
in
part
by
the
need
to
reevaluate
posted
2007,
eight
financial
crash,
the
best
way
in
which
to
fund
projects
that
will
be
transformative
and
support
innovation.
J
Given
the
retreat
of
many
commercial
banks
from
capital
investment.
At
the
same
time,
there
is
also
a
demonstrable
need
to
secure
long
term
investment
in
small
to
medium
sized
enterprises
to
promote
growth,
in
particular
in
areas
falling
within
the
mission
to
be
set
forth
again.
The
disinclination
in
general
of
commercial
banks
to
lend,
with
regard
to
foster,
deemed
to
be
less
attractive
prospects
from
a
short-term
commercial
perspective,
that
is
to
say
they
are
not
prepared
to
provide
so-called
patient
finance.
J
This
bill
will
provide
for
the
setting
up
of
a
Scottish
national
investment
bank
as
a
public
limited
company
to
be
established
in
2020.
It
is
an
enabling
bill,
and
hence
much
of
the
detail
will
require,
as
has
been
said,
to
be
developed
out
with
the
confines
of
the
bill
itself.
First
I
understand
that
for
some
of
those
who
have
made
submissions,
this
is
frustrating,
but
nonetheless,
as
with
any
enabling
framework
bill,
I
believe
there
must
be
a
balance
struck.
J
However,
it
would
be
helpful
in
this
regard
if
the
cabinet
sector
could
provide
some
more
detail
as
to
exactly
how
the
provisions
of
the
key
document,
the
articles
of
association,
are
to
be
developed
from
here
on
in
and
also
how
they
can
be
subject
to
appropriate
scrutiny
and,
whilst
I
do
understand
that
the
articles
of
association
represent
illegal
agreement.
As
between
the
bank
and
the
Scottish
government,
there
must
surely
be
an
appropriate
mechanism
that
can
be
fine
to
ensure
meaningful
engagement
and
I
believe.
J
This
should
also
apply
to
the
important
issue
of
the
general
principles
to
underpin
the
investment
policy.
As
far
as
the
proposed
objects
of
the
bank
are
concerned,
concerns
also
had
been
raised
that
the
vision
set
out
clearly
in
the
implementation
plan
had
not
been
elaborated
on
in
the
bill
itself
and
I'm
pleased,
indeed,
to
note
that
the
Cabinet
Secretary
has
undertaken
to
consider
the
matter
and
to
bring
forward
amendments
that
stage
that
will
ensure
alignment
between
the
objects
of
the
vision,
sight
act
in
their
implementation
plan
and
the
anchoring
of
non-financial
returns
in
the
bill.
J
Indeed,
whilst
it
must
be
recognized
that
there
must
be
a
financial
return,
this
is
a
bank.
It
is
at
the
same
time
to
be
read
nice
that
there
must
be
the
so-called
balanced
scorecard
with
wider
economic,
social
and
environmental
returns
also
to
be
factored
in.
Turning
to
the
proposed
capitalization
of
the
bank,
it
has
been
stated
that
this
is
to
be
two
billion
pounds
over
ten
years
and
again,
there
are
differing
views
here
and
some
argue
that
this
is
not
enough.
J
However,
as
also
has
been
said,
it
is
worth
noting
that
the
sum
represents
about
1.3
percent
of
GDP
and
therefore
falls
well
within
the
parameters
of
international
practice.
In
this
regard,
where
we
see
a
range
from
around
0.5
percent
to
1.5
percent
of
GDP,
it
is
also
worth
noting
that
Benny
Higgins,
who
developed
an
implementation
plan,
has
said,
and
I
quote:
2
billion
pound
strikes
a
decent
balance
between
aspiration
and
impact.
J
Of
course,
it
has
to
be
said,
presiding
officer
cannot
be
overstated
and
that
in
the
current
devolved
set
up
where
Scotland
does
not
have
access
to
all
her
resources
and
where
we
indeed
see
limits
on
our
borrowing
Paris.
Any
such
initiative
as
setting
up
the
National
Investment
Bank,
must
be
affordable
within
the
devolved
settlement
and
as
far
as
the
estimated
running
costs
of
the
bank
are
concerned.
J
At
the
same
time,
it
must
be
clear
that
the
Advisory
Committee
is
indeed
to
advise
the
Scottish
government
ministers
and
not
the
bank
directly.
It
is
not
a
bank
by
committee
rather
I
believe
that
for
the
bank
to
be
successful,
it
must
have
operational
independence
necessary
to
ensure
that
it
can
function
and
do
the
great
job
that
we
all
hope
it
will
do.
Presenting
officer
as
I
said
at
the
outset,
the
new
Scottish
National
Investment
Bank
will
be
pivotable
pivotal
to
securing
a
transformative
impact
on
Scotland's
economy.
J
It
is
clearly
intended
to
provide
addition,
allottee
not
to
duplicate
the
existing
landscape
in
terms
of
the
enterprise
bodies,
Scottish
futures
trusts
and
indeed
local
government.
First,
many
key
issues
remain
to
be
developed.
It
is
heartening
to
note
that
the
government
has
engaged
widely
and
is
committed
to
continue
such
wise
engagement,
as
these
issues
are
worked
through
I.
Very
much.
J
K
However,
it
is
vital
of
the
business
sectors
that
invest
in
renewables,
for
example,
are
able
to
work
with
the
bank,
even
if
their
original
idea
area
of
practice
does
not
fit
in
within
within
this
model.
I'm
thinking
of
the
number
of
companies
in
my
region
that
are
involved
in
the
fossil
fuel
industry,
but
also
expanding
their
investment
in
greener
energy
solutions,
such
firms,
not
all
multinational
Jantz,
a
my
dad
shouldn't
be
precluded
from
working
with
the
bank
if
they
could
help
contribute
to
reducing
emissions
over
the
long
term.
Now.
K
Another
issue
lies
in
where
the
overall
control
of
the
bank's
mission
sits,
as
currently
proposed.
Ministers
can
dictate
to
the
bank
its
objectives,
but
there
is
no
requirement
for
any
consultation
with
the
economy
committee
Parliament
as
a
whole.
All
the
directors
of
the
bank
itself
I
think
it
is
important
to
include
the
need
for
such
discussions
in
the
bill
itself.
It
would
be
unfortunate
if
at
any
point
in
the
future,
the
bank
was
obliged
to
follow
the
political
instructions
of
ministers,
rather
an
economic
best
practice.
K
I
know
that
the
economy
committee
has
already
highlighted
this
in
stage.
One
report
for
the
bill
and
I
hope
ministers
are
responding
in
a
constructive
fashion.
There
is
also
vital
and
consideration
about
the
nature
of
current
stated
mission
of
the
bank.
Ministers
have
indicated
they
want
the
bank
to
be
quite
interventionist
in
certain
areas
of
the
economy.
Now
this
is
a
valid
viewpoint,
but
my
concern
is
that
is
trying
to
do
all
things
to
all
people.
Yes,
it
is
important
to
consider
how
we
deal
with
the
climate
change
or
our
aging
population.
K
The
preferential
treatment
of
certain
sectors
over
others
can
undermine
the
fundamentals
of
the
economy
and
I
hope.
The
municipal
will
give
further
thought
to
this.
Concerns
have
also
been
raised
over
the
expectations
for
the
bank
to
be
self-sustaining
within
five
years.
The
committee
has
taken
a
significant
amount
of
evidence
on
this,
and
it
would
appear
that
ministers
have
been
quite
generous
with
their
predictions.
K
I
know
the
idea
that
the
cost
of
the
project
could
spiral
out
of
control
will
be
entirely
unfamiliar
to
the
Scottish
Government
I
urged
them
to
think
very
carefully
about
how
to
manage
expectations
that
over
the
next
few
years.
Finally,
I
do
have
a
worry
about
the
landscape
described
by
Jim
McCall
as
cluttered.
It
is
in
fact
resigning
offer
that,
for
the
last
few
years,
there'd
be
a
number
of
arm's
length
organizations
trying
to
provide
investment
for
businesses,
whether
this
is
the
Scottish
enterprise
and
their
Scottish
investment
bank.
That's
got
his
growth
scheme.
K
The
previous,
the
previous
idea
for
the
business
investment
bank.
The
Scottish
government
have
given
taking
a
number
of
swings
at
this.
It
hasn't
worked
out
yet
yet
I
hope
it
will.
Indeed,
in
the
case
of
this
ghost
game,
is
not
even
managed
to
get
close
to
the
investing
half
of
the
five
hundred
million
that
was
promised
in
2017.
K
There
are
serious
questions
here
and
the
ministers
need
to
have
a
good
answer.
What
will
be
the
difference
this
time
round?
In
conclusion,
presiding
officer,
the
Scottish
national
investment
bank
is
an
idea
that
certainly
has
merit
but
faces
a
number
of
challenges
that
need
to
be
resolved
before
the
bill
is
passed
in
order
to
make
sure
it
fulfills
its
potential
to
grow
our
economy,
create
jobs
and
boost
living
standards.
I
do
not
doubt
the
intentions
of
ministers,
but
it's
clearly
inquires
with
more
work.
K
It
is
with
that
spirit
that
I
look
forward
to
seeing
amendments
to
the
bill
proposed
at
further
stages
in
Parliament.
It
also
correct
the
issue
is
that
the
snip
phases
and
I
hope
ministers
will
be
receptive
to
such
changes
and
look
forward
to
working
with
them
to
make
them
happen.
Thank
you
very
much.
L
You
very
much
indeed
the
presiding
officer
I,
have
to
say
that
it's
a
great
contrast
about
the
civilized
debate
in
this
Parliament.
Compared
to
the
pantomime
down
the
road,
Westminster
can
I,
say,
presiding
officer.
The
the
success
of
the
national
investment
bank
will
be
judged
by
how
successfully
it
helps
tackles
essential
challenges
of
the
Scottish
economy
Hey.
We
rely
far
too
heavily
on
a
small
number
of
factors
for
our
entire
national
wealth.
If
you
look
at
food
and
drink
is
one
sector,
oil
and
gas
is
another
sector
and
they
certainly
service
industries.
L
Since
the
war
in
Finland,
there
is
more
money
given
in
the
form
of
credit
guarantees,
a
and
other
facilities
to
their
exporters
in
Finland
than
there
is
in
the
whole
of
the
United
Kingdom
by
the
UK
government.
That
shows
you
this
scale
of
where
we
have
to
make
it
up
in
order
to
be
competitive
in
the
Finnish
industry.
A
good
example
is
shipbuilding,
an
industry
that
we
gave
up
far
far
too
easily
many
years
ago,
other
than
what
is
left
in
the
flight
and
recite
and
the
things
through.
L
The
National
Investment
Bank
have
a
very
vibrant
shipbuilding
industry
and
many
other
such
industries
as
well
than
the
region's
trees.
Our
innovation
agency
are
building
themselves
up
to
diversify
away
over
time
from
oil
and
gas
and
to
a
whole
range
of
new
high-tech
industries.
But
we
in
Scotland
I
will
record
on
research,
and
development
is
apology
in
the
UK.
It
is
appalling.
L
The
average
level
of
business
research
and
development
in
the
UK
is
less
than
50%
as
a
percentage
of
GDP
than
it
is
in
Europe,
and
the
revival
of
R&D
in
Scotland
is
less
than
half
in
the
private
sector,
less
than
half
for,
as
in
the
UK
average,
because
of
the
heavy
concentration
in
London
and
the
South
East.
So
a
key
challenge
for
this
body
is
most
to
increase
finance,
to
export
us,
as
well
as
increase
the
level
of
research
and
development
to
help
diversify
into
new
jobs
and
industries.
L
And
in
top
of
that
there
are
many
other
opportunities
that
we
need
to
pursue.
But
let
me
just
say
a
word
about
the
money,
because
in
first
looking
at
I
absolutely
thought
that
over
200
million
pounds
isn't
to
be
scoffed
at
it
root
against
the
scale
of
the
challenge
to
be
fairly
modest.
But
a
key
part
of
a
national
investment
bank
is
to
leverage
funding
from
elsewhere.
The
worst
thing
that
can
happen
is
that
it
takes
on
all
the
rest
and
then
other
people
benefit.
L
L
But
the
return
to
the
Scottish
economy
could
be
very
high
indeed,
and
that's
where
I
come
to
the
opportunities
presiding
officer.
If
you
look
at
a
future
heavily
mentioned
in
the
debate,
so
far
are
the
fantastic
global
opportunities.
Jordan
Ottawa
sails
down
to
the
EU
slowest
growing
part
of
the
global
economy.
Let
us
go
out
there
and
be
global
and
international.
That's
where
the
bank
markets
and
the
market
grow
says,
but
look
at
artificial
intelligence,
some
of
which
is
residing
in
here,
artificial
intelligence.
L
You
take
the
hell
Satan
if
we
develop
an
expertise
and
invest
heavily
and
the
application
of
artificial
intelligence
Justin
to
Diagnostics
in
the
health
service,
we
can
be
a
world
leader
in
that
field
and
helper
health
service.
At
the
same
time,
if
you
look
at
life
sciences,
the
opportunity
Scotland
has
particularly
in
animal
life
sciences
is
truly
transformational.
If
you
look
at
IT,
what
is
the
massive
growing
industries?
Is
the
provision
of
cyber
security
for
governments
and
businesses.
L
You
don't
need
to
be
physically
in
Australia
in
order
to
provide
some
cyber
security
services
to
somebody
in
Sydney
or
in
Melbourne.
You
could
do
it
from
Glasgow.
You
can
do
it
from
any
of
Scotland
and
you
can
serve
a
one-way
market.
The
opportunities
are
endless,
presiding
officer.
Let
me
see
this.
It's
a
great
pity
and
a
great
tragedy.
M
Thank
you
very
much
presiding
officer
and
tempting
as
it
is
to
note
that
Alex
Neill
was
looking
in
the
mirror
when
he
was
talking
about
artificial
intelligence.
I
will,
of
course,
resist
presiding
officer.
A
Scottish
national
investment
bank
is
actually
not
all
that
new
as
an
idea.
Indeed,
the
Scottish
investment
bank
already
exists
in
Scottish
Enterprise.
An
investment
in
business
has
existed
in
different
forms
for
a
number
of
years,
intent
on
a
bit
of
nation-building,
of
which
we
know
the
SNP
are
so
fond.
M
The
Scottish
National
Investment
Bank
has
been
announced
time
after
time
by
successive
ministers
and
First
Minister's.
In
fact,
I
think
it's
probably
been
announced
at
least
nine
times
over
in
the
past
nine
years.
First,
it
was
John
Swinney.
Then
there
was
Alex
Salmond
Keith
Brown
had
a
look
in
Nicola,
Sturgeon,
followed
and
now
even
Derek
Makai
is
in
on
the
act.
The
truth
is,
though,
and
the
reason
it
couldn't
be
announced
earlier
is
the
SNP
government
didn't
have
the
capital
to
make
it
fly
until
now.
M
Now
it's
all
hail
the
financial
transaction
money
from
the
UK
government
and
first
I
recall
the
SNP
denouncing
I.
Think
it
was
Keith,
Brown
talked
about
it
as
just
loan
funding
and
funny
money,
which
of
course
is
just
loan
funding,
but
now
it
is
the
very
welcome
money
that
will
capitalize
the
bank.
It
does,
however,
need
to
be
paid
back.
M
Make
no
mistake:
I
am
in
favor
of
a
national
investment
bank
and
did
Labour's
proposals,
as
we've
already
heard
from
Richard
Leonard
would
see
the
bank
capitalized
with
ten
times
the
resources
promised
by
the
SNP,
but
I
want
to
know
that
we're
doing
it
in
the
most
efficient
manner
possible,
getting
the
biggest
bang
for
the
taxpayers
buck
now.
The
economy
committee,
of
which
I'm
a
member
looked
at
the
bill
proposal,
but
it
was
the
Finance
Committee
that
considered
the
financial
memorandum
and
I
want
to.
M
Firstly,
follow
the
money,
as
my
mother
always
taught
me
to
do
so.
Financial
transactions
money
from
the
UK
government
of
500
million
will
capitalize
the
bank
up
to
2021
Scottish
government
money
of
1.5
billion
will
be
provided
from
2012
sorry
2021
to
2028,
that's
straight
forward
as
the
investment
part
of
the
equation.
Now,
let's
look
at
the
cost.
Here's
the
headline
figure
that
I
think
we
haven't
properly
understood
by
23
20
23
24,
which
is
when
the
government
expect
the
bank
to
cover
its
costs.
M
The
taxpayer
will
have
borne
a
cumulative
loss
of
at
least
80
million
pounds.
Now.
I
know
that
Dean
Lockhart
uses
the
figure
of
a
hundred
and
fifty
million
pounds
which
ever
it
is.
It
is
the
significant
sum
that
80
million
pounds
is
to
cover
new
staff,
a
chief
executive,
a
chair,
Scottish
government,
sponsor
unit
estate
costs
and
so
on.
That's
at
least
80
million
pounds
before
the
bank
starts
to
cover
its
operating
costs
in
a
time
of
continuing
austerity.
That
is
a
sizable
sum
of
money
to
lose
just
think
about
what
that
could
buy.
M
Almost
3,000
nurses
almost
2,000
teachers.
So
we
need
to
think
carefully
about
what
we're
doing
the
Royal
Society
of
Edinburgh
in
a
very
thoughtful
submission.
Also
noted
that
the
projected
annual
running
cost
of
25
million
pounds
to
oversee
an
investment
fund
of
200
million
is
very
high
and
needs
to
be
reviewed.
So
let
me
ask
a
fundamental
question
of
the
cabinet:
sec.
Money
is
already
distributed
now
through
the
Scottish
investment
bank
through
the
Scottish,
Futures,
Trust
trust
and
through
other
government
controlled
agencies.
M
What
review
has
taken
place
of
the
experience,
the
efficacy,
the
impact
of
those
existing
arrangements?
Are
they
any
good
I
know
he's
dying
to
answer
me?
Let
me
finish:
hey:
are
they
any
good?
Does
he
know
because
that
informs
whether
what
he's
about
to
do
with
this
bill
is
the
right
thing?
So
can
he
tell
us
why
this
approach
in
the
bill
and
what
additionality
will
the
new
bank
provide
because
I
think
that's
important
for
us
going
forward
cabinet
secretary,
caprica,
John.
B
Can
I
thank
Jackie
Baillie
for
the
question
and
the
ability
to
intervene
very
briefly
at
that
stage,
maybe
obviously
Morden
is
coming
up,
but
I
actually
think
they'll
be
the
requirement
for
that
ongoing
review,
especially
to
see
what
the
final
legislation
looks
like
I've
say
to
engage
with
Parliament.
So
I
think
it's
right
to
have
that
ongoing
review
of
what
other
parts
of
the
public
sector
providing
what's
provided
by
banks
elsewhere
in
Scotland
and
then,
of
course,
to
keep
that
under
review
to
the
tonne
worth
what
financial
products
are
available.
M
Whilst
I
welcome
that
recognition
from
the
cabinet
secretary,
my
concern
is,
we
haven't
done
this
in
advance
of
passing
legislation
and
spending
taxpayers
money
when
we're
not
quite
sure
whether
this
is
going
to
do
the
trick.
So
you
know
I'm
happy
that
he's
going
to
do
this,
but
I
want
it
done
now,
rather
than
some
years
down
the
line,
because
I
think
it's
important
for
us
to
understand
whether
the
banks,
additionality
will
compensate
for
the
cumulative
multi-million
pound
loss
in
the
first
five
years.
A
key
issue,
of
course,
is
stimulating.
Demand.
M
Is
the
cabinet
secretary
confident
that
there
will
be
sufficient
demand,
given
that
the
Scottish
growth
scheme
announced
to
considerable
fanfare,
has
distributed
a
fraction
of
the
money
intended?
These
questions
all
need
answers
by
the
cabinet
secretary.
No
I
don't
have
enough
time,
because
if
there
is
another
more
cost-effective
way
of
achieving
the
same
end
than
we
should
consider
it
I'm
with
Alex
Neil
in
terms
of
out
his
about
his
potential
of
a
return,
but
we
need
to
be
convinced,
rather
than
just
hoping
that
this
will
happen.
Let
me
turn
very
quickly.
M
Presiding
officer
to
some
of
the
other
issues
raised.
I
particularly
want
to
focus
on
the
views
taken
by
engender
includes
the
gap.
Their
assessment
of
the
Equality
impact
assessment
was
that
the
bill
was
limited
in
scope.
Lacked
analysis
was
quite
poor,
although
the
Cabinet
Secretary
has
revised.
That
assessment,
which
is
welcome,
is
very
difficult
to
retrofit
equality
into
policy
which
has
already
been
developed.
There
is
international
evidence,
a
wealth
of
it,
that
gender
equality
is
the
necessary
precursor
to
economic
growth.
M
If
we
want
the
bank
to
deliver
for
women
in
Scotland
and
women
led
businesses,
then
this
needs
to
be
a
core
part
of
the
strategy
of
the
implementation.
It
should
be
on
the
face
of
the
bill,
a
view
shared
by
many,
as
should
be
the
vision
and
the
objectives
of
equality
and
non-discrimination
and
socio-economic
and
environmental
ilk
outcomes.
So
we
influence
the
banks,
lending
policies
and
governance
right
from
the
very
start,
presiding
officer.
There
will
undoubtedly
be
many
amendments
to
come
and
I
look
forward
to
having
that
challenge
with
the
cabinet
secretary
during
stage
two.
E
You
very
much
a
presiding
officer
and
once
again,
I
find
myself
speaking
in
a
debate
on
an
issue
which
came
from
the
economy
committee,
of
which
I
was
a
member
when
the
report
was
prepared,
a,
although
sadly
I
am
no
longer
there
a.
However
I'm
happy
it
to
take
part,
and
this
was
a
subject
where
there
clearly
was
broad
agreement
at
the
committee-
a
perhaps,
unlike
last
Thursday's
economy
committee,
debate
on
pre-release
access.
E
As
has
been
said,
this
is
very
much
an
enabling
or
framework
bill,
and
the
question
has
arisen
as
to
whether
there
should
be
more
detail
actually
on
the
face
of
the
bill,
and
we
faced
this
question
previously
with
legislation
such
as
the
land
reform
bill
and
the
islands
bill.
Clearly
too
much
detail
in
the
bill
can
be
difficult
to
update
as
circumstances
change.
On
the
other
hand,
to
little
detail
could
give
ministers-
or
in
this
case
the
bank
itself
too
much
freedom
to
drift
away
from
the
intentions
of
power.
E
So
we
need
to
get
the
balance
right
as
we
move
on
to
stages
two
and
three
I
personally
think
having
a
bank
like
this
is
a
great
opportunity
and
we've
had
clear
evidence
that
committee
from
a
number
of
countries,
including
Wales,
how
it
can
be
a
real
asset
to
the
economy.
As
we
noted
in
the
report
at
paragraph
48,
the
bank
will
not
take
deposits,
nor
borrow
from
anyone
other
than
Scottish
Ministers.
However,
in
the
longer
term,
this
might
be
something
we
want
to
revisit.
E
I
believe
there
are
a
number
of
individuals
in
Scotland
and
possibly
organisations
as
well.
Who
would
be
keen
to
invest
in
Scotland's
economic
development
through
a
bank
like
this.
In
fact,
I've
had
individuals
asking
me
personally
if
it
will
be
possible
for
them
to
invest
in
it.
Another
point
about
the
bank
is
that
it
is
to
provide
patient
finance.
E
So
I
hope
we
can
all
commit
at
this
stage
now
to
being
patient
and
not
jumping
to
criticize
the
government
of
the
day
if
the
first
investment
we're
to
go
belly-up
to
move
on
to
some
specific
topics
that
have
aroused
interest.
First
of
all
setting
a
target
rate
of
return.
The
committee
has
said
in
its
report
around
paragraph
2
or
one
to
two
or
three,
that
the
rate
of
return
should
not
be
the
be-all
and
end-all
and
that
evaluation
of
the
bank
should
be
wider,
including
social
and
environmental
impact.
E
We
then
suggested
that
we
should
be
particularly
careful
in
the
early
years.
They
say
the
first
two
to
three
years
and
recommended
that
the
target
should
not
be
set
or
applied
in
the
short
term.
Therefore,
I
was
particularly
interested
in
the
government's
response
to
this
at
paragraph
40
in
their
letter
of
26th
August
I
think
there
is
agreement,
as
paragraph
43
says
that
the
bank
needs
to
cover
its
operating
costs.
E
There
have
to
be
sufficient
financial
returns
to
repay
the
Treasury,
and
there
must
be
sufficient
returns
to
grow
its
asset
base,
enabling
future
rounds
of
investment
and
Scottish
companies
and
communities,
and
a
paragraph
45
that
we
do
not
want
and
as
an
unintended
consequence
to
be
decision
making
to
have
decision-making
focused
on
the
short
term.
But
paragraph
46
makes
an
extremely
important
point
that
if
the
bank
does
not
have
a
target
rate
of
return,
it
might
be
more
susceptible
to
political
pressure
to
be
a
lender
of
last
resort
to
distressed
companies.
E
There
must
might
also
be
issues
with
state
a
jewels
whether
these
are
decided
by
the
European
Commission
or
the
competition
and
Markets
Authority.
Secondly,
on
ethics,
a
moving
on
to
ethics
and
the
suggestion
of
an
ethics
committee.
The
economy
committee
had
asked
the
government
to
consider
such
a
committee
being
specifically
required
on
the
face
of
the
bill.
The
government
responds
in
their
paragraph
61.
The
ethics
might
be
best
considered
as
a
main
board
duty
now
I
do
get
the
point.
Ethics
should
be
central
to
the
whole
organization.
E
However,
I
think
in
balance,
I
would
like
to
see
a
committee
which
specifically
focused
on
this
topic
and
could
then
take
a
considered
position
to
the
main
board.
I
do
not
think
it's
a
particularly
bad
thing
for
the
respective
chairs
of
say
the
ethics
committee
in
the
one
hand,
and
investment
committee,
in
the
other
hand,
to
be
putting
forward
slightly
different
arguments
in
front
of
the
main
board
for
a
decision
to
be
made
a
more
relaxed
work.
Well,
this
needs
to
be
in
the
face
of
the
bill
or
not.
E
And
thirdly,
in
the
question
of
sustainable
growth
and
the
environment,
there
have
been
a
number
of
briefings
for
today's
debate,
including
from
Friends
of
the
Earth
SEO
and
social
enterprise.
Scotland
emphasizing
the
importance
of
the
environment
and
other
issues,
it
seems
to
me
there's
a
broad
agreement
on
the
need
for
this.
Although
we
saw
yesterday
in
the
climate
bill
debate,
there
are
differences
as
to
how
far
people
want
us
to
go
and
how
quickly
there
are
clearly
also
concerns
as
to
what
the
term
inclusive
and
sustainable
economic
growth
might
mean.
E
I
do
not
think
many
of
us
want
unlimited
economic
growth
with
no
strings
attached,
but
perhaps
the
more
difficult
question
is
where
all
this
should
be
written
down,
should
it
be
in
the
face
of
the
actual
bill
itself
as
some
suggest
or
be
cause.
We
are
dealing
with
a
company
in
this
legislation
and
there
need
to
be
articles
of
association.
E
However,
as
far
as
I
can
see,
the
wording
and
the
draft
articles
on
the
objects
of
the
company
are
exactly
the
same
as
the
wording
in
the
bill
and
I
would
have
thought
there
might
be
an
opportunity
for
the
articles
to
be
expanded
beyond
what
the
bill
states
and
give
more
of
the
detail
that
many
are
seeking
and
I
do
wonder
if
the
government
is
open
to
that.
Well,.
N
E
N
O
You
deputy
presiding
officer
very
pleased
to
be
speaking
in
this
debate
today.
It's
been
interesting
today.
The
old
adage
is
that
you
wait
ages
for
a
boss
to
turn
up
and
then
three
come
along
at
once.
I
think
the
same
is
to
be
said
for
the
Scottish
government
strategy
on
supporting
business
we've
been
waiting
for
something
like
this
national
investment
buying
for
a
while,
since
mr.
O
McKay's
party
took
office
going
back
as
far
as
2009
john
swinney
said
that
the
needed
to
create
a
vehicle
that
would
enable
us
to
provide
the
necessary
long-term
support,
an
investment
in
the
Scottish
economy,
very
admirable
of
them
in
2014.
He
said
that
he
hadn't
shelved
the
proposition
of
a
business
development
bank,
but
he
was
searching
for
a
way
to
do
it
and
quote
I
am
still
searching
for
a
way
to
do
it.
O
Five
years
later,
here
we
are
in
the
chamber
debating
Stage
one
of
the
Scottish
national
investment
bank
I'm,
going
to
be
supportive
of
the
concept
of
it,
because
I
think
they
do
have
a
place
in
modern
economies.
We've
talked
a
little
bit
about
the
example
of
Germany
and
some
of
the
successes
that
other
countries
have
had
in
this
type
of
financial
vehicle,
so
I
think
it's
to
be
after
the
government.
This
type
of
vehicle
is
probably
the
right
one
for
the
purpose
there
are
highs,
but
the
devil
very
much
is
in
the
detail.
O
This
type
of
Bank
really
I
think
goes
against
the
mold
of
what
banks
doing
probably
what
governments
do,
because
governments
are
generally
asked
to
step
in
when
Marcus
are
failing.
The
aim
of
this
Bank
I
hope
will
be
entirely
different
and
I
hope
it
will
generally
be
seemed
to
shape
and
steer
the
markets
rather
than
simply
correct
failures
on
that
point
of
it
cabinet.
B
Secretary,
do
you
want
to
make
it
clear
if
it's
helpful
at
this
point,
since
the
number
of
members
have
raised
that?
Yes,
it
will
be
the
intention
of
the
bank
to
be
that
economy
shaping
type
model,
as
opposed
to
as
it
has
been
described
and
articulated
by
others
to
support
failing
businesses.
It
should
be
besties
with
a
viable
of
a
future,
but
when
its
help
shaping
our
future
economy
as
well.
So
that
is
the
Sparrow
of
the
bank
and.
O
You
I'm
pleased
to
hear
that
I
think
that's
a
very
positive
move.
I
think
there
is
the
only
theme
coming
through
this
stage.
One
draft
of
it
that
things
like
protection
of
the
environment,
social
inclusion
and
sustainable
development
are
I,
hopefully
will
sit
at
the
heart
of
the
bank's
investments.
But
ultimately
this
is
still
taxpayers
money,
so
the
money
must
still
be
invested
in
viable
opportunities
that
will
offer
some
form
of
return,
even
if
that's
not
obviously
a
direct
financial
pound-for-pound.
O
O
Of
course
we're
not
there
yet,
but
we
know
we're
substantially
way
below
that
in
terms
of
how
much
it's
invested
to
date
and
I
think
it's
true
to
say
that
this
type
of
investment
vehicle
cannot
be
measured
by
the
conventional
tools
that
we
use
by
governments
or
investors,
I
think
the
success
or
otherwise.
This
Bank
will
be
challenging
to
put
a
number
to,
and
indeed
yeah
we
may
need
to
be
patient,
as
mr.
Mason
has
said,
but
I
think
the
availability
of
credit,
whilst
there
is
ATO,
is
not
the
only
tool.
O
Finance
cannot
overcome
pro
market
conditions,
it
can't
overcome
skills
deficits
and
it
can't
overcome
factors
which
are
we
outside
over
control.
We
could
argue
that
the
government
could
already
have
played
a
more
vital
role
over
the
past
decade
and
fostering
innovation,
growth
and
skills
and
they're.
Quite
timely
intervention
after
fmq
stood
I
held
a
reception
and
meeting
with
air
chamber
of
commerce,
and
some
of
the
people
I
met
at
that
roundtable
are
real
people.
O
But
can
you
ask
the
government,
where
have
you
been
for
the
last
decade
and
how
much
longer
do
I
need
to
wait
for
this
type
of
support
to
be
made
available
to
me
on
the
ground,
so
I
hope
we
can
get
through
this
swiftly
and
get
this
thing
established.
I
would
like
to
turn
technically
to
the
bill
itself
in
small
time.
O
I
have
I'm
pleased
at
stage
1,
with
no
respect
to
the
people
that
have
drafted
the
bill
as
it
stands,
I'm
very
pleased
that
it
is
stage
1,
because
I
think
there
are
still
many
holes
in
it
and
I
hope.
The
members
will
work
constructively
across
the
chamber
to
get
into
a
good
place
when
it
comes
back
on
page
1
of
the
bill
itself,
something
that
Andy
Whiteman
alluded
to.
The
banks
object
is
giving
financial
assistance
to
commercial
activities
for
the
purpose
of
promoting
and
sustaining
economic
development.
That's
ok!
O
If
you
can
decide
for
what
that
actually
means.
It
says
that
the
bank
may
do
anything
for
the
purpose
of
his
objects.
The
bank
can
only
borrow
from
Scottish
Ministers
Scottish
Ministers,
appoint
the
executive
directors,
the
non-executive
directors,
the
salaries
of
the
directors
and
give
direction
on
all
of
the
above.
The
Scottish
Ministers
will
set
the
mission,
and
it
will
do
that
through
the
ingenious
method
of
sending
a
document
to
the
bank,
and
it
goes
into
great
detail
about
how
they
may
do
that.
O
Scottish
Ministers
may
capitalize
the
bank,
and
it's
only
when
you
get
to
the
very
end
of
the
bill.
It's
worth
pointing
out.
The
only
thing
that
requires
parliamentary
approval
is
the
procedure
for
modifying
entrenched
provisions.
Chamber
already
looks
like
a
marvelously,
non-political
and
independent
organization,
as
it's
currently
drafted,
I
raised
that,
because
I
think
it's
important.
The
bank
does
have
the
independence
their
needs
and
requires
to
make
decisions
that
are
right
as
a
bank
and
not
simply
under
the
direction
of
the
political
will
of
Ministers.
O
I
conclude
my
comments
by
saying
I
think
there's
the
potential
here
to
create
something
very
interesting
and
worth
while
and
but
the
Minister
is
responsible,
for
it
must
ensure
this
isn't
just
a
box
taking
exercise
or
a
half-cooked
plan.
I
support
the
set
up
of
the
bank
and
I
do
hope.
It's
to
see
succeeds,
but
my
reaction
to
all
this
is
that
of
many
folk
I
believe
it
when
it
delivers.
O
N
P
First
of
all,
I
welcome
the
rule
of
the
Scottish
National
Investment
Bank
and
the
stage
one
to
beat
Bank
that
is
not
focused
on
profit
seeking
and
one
that
can
respond
quickly
to
Scotland's
investment
needs.
It
could
be
an
opportunity.
Most.
Many
commentators
have
said
that,
as
it
doesn't
have
nearly
enough
capital
and
I
could
be
at
least
great
rate
to
see
that
we
need
to
get
the
Equality
commitments
in
there
up
front.
P
As
far
as
Council
for
development
industry
is
said
that
the
level
of
capitalisation
of
2
billion
over
10
years
does
not
match
the
scale
of
a
mission
proposed,
and
they
see
it
could
be
challenging.
But
for
my
contribution,
I
want
to
talk
about
why
housing
should
be
a
key
mission
within
the
Scottish
in
national
investment
bank
and
reference.
I
think
why
it's
quite
an
interesting
forthcoming
to
pour
from
the
think-tank
commonweal.
P
Let
us
not
forget
it
was
housing
finance
that
led
to
the
sharp
practices
of
the
mortgage
market,
which
led
to
the
crash
developing,
which
deployed
many
people
of
their
housing
options.
So
we're,
therefore,
in
my
opinion,
have
to
steer
away
from
seeing
housing
purely
a
profit-driven
and
commodity
bees
part
of
the
economy,
but
rather
look
to
its
primary
purpose
of
creating
homes.
One
of
the
key
measures
of
the
bank,
I
believe,
should
be
to
build
high
quality
social
housing.
P
Dr.
K
does
L
from
commonweal
has
written
a
forthcoming
important
in
it.
He
says
that
the
current
approach
to
his
building
is
deeply
flawed
and
largely
revolves
are
in
the
private
house
building
market
will
the
politics
of
the
social
host
building,
who
is
limited
to
setting
Alberti
targets
of
houses,
to
build
without
much
thought
to
the
quality
allocation
or
infrastructure?
I
do
agree
that
one
of
the
bank's
missions
should
be
to
build
sufficiently
high
quality,
publicly
owned
rented
homes,
not
just
as
a
safety
net
for
those
in
need,
but
to
exceed
baseline
ambitions.
P
Provide
forms
are
desirable
and
cheaper
than
those
in
the
private
sector
and
I'm
sure
those
who
follow
the
housing
debate
don't
need
to
be
convinced
that
housing
itself
is
a
really
important
part
of
the
economy
because
of
the
skills
and
that
we
need
and
the
infrastructure
that
it
brings.
But
by
guaranteeing
a
security
of
supply
and
legislation
to
fund
only
the
highest
quality
housing,
it
could
act
to
stabilize
a
private
rented
sector
and
raise
the
quality
of
housing
overall
and
labor.
P
We
want
to
see
a
strategic
plan
for
the
housing
sector
focused
on
improvement
of
quality.
It
seems
obvious
to
me
that,
given
that
we
had
on
the
yesterday
on
climate
change
reduction,
that
a
quien
postdoc
project
for
quality
homes
would
be
to
aim
to
reduce
carbon
neutral
housing
over
to
introduce
carbon
neutral
housing
as
a
standard.
P
This,
in
turn,
is
increasing
the
risk
of
the
number
of
adults
and
children
living
in
poverty.
It
seems
that
there's
an
excellent
case
to
be
made
here
according
to
one's
for
Scotland,
Scotland
is
only
building
80%
of
the
level
required
to
meet
housing,
need
and
demand.
Good
housing
I'm
sure
we
all
agree
as
saying
to
a
healthy
population
and
a
vibrant
economy.
P
P
It
might
be
tasked,
amongst
other
things,
were
taking
a
strategic
approach
to
where
the
gaps
lie
in
provision
Paris
for
compulsory
purchase,
order
to
create
new
communities
and
to
coordinate
the
provision
of
really
skill,
relevant
skills
needed
on
the
sector
and
we'll
see
more
about
that
and
a
report
when
it's
due
for
publication
overall
I
do
believe
that
there
is
a
very
strong
case
that
a
national
approach,
the
host
building,
could
identify
in
the
housing
sector
where
there
are
gaps,
and
there
are
many
organizations
that
support
form
of
a
national
agency.
Common
will
be
in.
P
One
of
them
were
also
homes
for
Scotland
have
identified
over
a
year
ago
that
it
could
play
a
strategic
role
in
making
sure
that
going
forward
that
would
attain
the
necessary
skills
for
infrastructure
building
and
that
would
include
housing.
I
believe
I
moved
towards
high-quality
passive
housing
when
it
comes
to
carbons.
P
N
P
I
know:
that's
fine,
okay,
my
apologies
to
the
capital
station
with
finance
and
making
social
housing
our
viable
option
for
more
people
through
the
investment.
That
will
mean
factors
that
just
he
think,
costs
or
the
said
could
practically
be
eliminated.
Building
high-quality
social
forms
should
be
part
of
the
mission
of
the
investment
bank
and
I
hope.
The
cabbages
safeties
intervention
might
be
terribly
with
that
idea,
hopefully
anyway,
and
where
these
homes
are
built,
they
must
be
gated
by
Adam
and
layered
strategy.
Thank
you
very
much.
Thank.
Q
Thank
you
very
much
presiding
officer.
You
need
not
look
far
for
evidence
of
systemic
equality
across
the
UK
there's
a
wealth
gap,
that's
rising
and
due
to
a
toxic
partnership
of
discredited
economics
and
Westminster
ineptitude,
and
that
inequality
is
social,
but
it's
also
Geographic
and
it's
the
regional
debate
that
I
want
concentrate
on
today
and
which
I
hope
the
Scottish
National
Investment
Bank,
will
focus
on
in
the
future.
Q
Southern
Scotland's
regional
economic
wealth
has
been
one
of
the
Wars
to
coordinate
amongst
competitor
regions
across
Northern,
Europe
and
citizens,
and
the
inner
London
West
region,
where
West
months
that
are
situated
are
on
average
ten
times
better
off
than
my
constituents
in
a
London.
Is
that
it's
just
region
in
northern
Europe.
Of
course,
this
disparity
is
not
only
found
in
Scotland
regions
across
the
UK
have
been
start
of
an
starved
of
investment
by
a
MetroCenter
centric
financial
system,
which
does
not
work
in
their
interests.
Q
Indeed,
across
the
world
we
see
growth
focused
on
cities
which
in
turn
attract
more
investment
and
talent
and
so
on,
and
that's
great
if
you
live
in
a
city
if
I
feel
strongly
representing
the
region.
That
does
not
have
a
city
that
no
part
of
Scotland
should
be
left
behind
and
that's
why
I
welcome
attempts
by
the
Scottish
government
to
address
these
geographical
disparities,
especially
in
the
south
of
Scotland
Enterprise
Agency,
which
is
being
set
up,
and
the
adoption
of
police
based
inclusive
growth
as
part
of
Scotland's
economic
strategy.
Q
My
ambition,
National
Investment
Bank,
would
be
that
it
would
complement
these
initiatives.
I
don't
sit
on
the
economy
committee
anymore
by
this
era
in
the
last
Parliament,
and
it
was
there.
I
still
remember,
being
really
struck
by
figures
that
showed
how
difficult
it
was
for
SMEs
in
the
rural
South
of
Scotland
to
access
capital,
either
from
the
private
banking
sector,
or
indeed
through
public
agencies
and
I'm
really
pleased
that
the
government's
responding
to
that
in
a
number
of
ways.
Q
So
while
the
bank
has
both
a
national
and
regional
remit,
I'm
gratified
that
there's
a
specific
recognition
that
regional
variations
and
products
at
Tivoli
across
Scotland
must
be
addressed,
and
we
have
heard
that
the
bank
has
an
unusual
nature
and
departs
from
the
status
quo,
and
this
is
a
good
thing.
It
will
be
an
institution
underpinned
by
statute
with
the
detail
contained
within
articles
of
association.
It's
uniquely
Scottish.
We
know
already
that
greater
long
term
or
patient
capital
is
needed
for
small
and
medium-sized
enterprises
to
grow.
Q
And
again
that
is
certainly
the
case
in
my
region.
I
was
struck
by
the
way
the
committee
took
a
wide
and
thematic
approach
to
scrutiny
of
the
bill,
reflecting
the
bank's
mission
orientated
approached
to
not
just
fix
market
failures,
but
in
the
words
of
the
economic
advisor
and
Mariana
matzo
cattle
there
to
create
and
shape
new
markets
in
the
tackling
societal
changes.
I
know
also
that
the
bankers
gained
widespread
support
among
stakeholders.
The
CBI
Scotland's
have
said
the
development
of
the
SN.
Q
Ib
could
be
a
leap
forward
for
the
Scottish
economy
that
boosts
global
competitiveness,
score
a
supporting
innovation
and
growth
and
social
enterprise.
Scotland's
have
said
it
also
has
huge
potential
to
transform
our
economy
I'm
particularly
pleased,
also
to
note
that
it
will
be
open
for
business
in
2020.
It
can't
come
quickly
enough.
Q
Scotland
has
a
rich
than
parallels
history
of
groundbreaking
invention
and
innovation,
and
is
currently
home
to
several
world-class
universities
and
centers
of
excellence.
There
is
no
shortage
of
homegrown
talent
and
it's
time
for
Scotland
to
punch
above
its
weight
in
terms
of
developing
that
talent
as
so
much
could
be
achieved.
Therefore
much
is
at
stake.
Q
The
committee
has
reported
on
ethical
investment
and
other
matters,
some
of
which
we
have
heard
further
detail
on
today,
which
are
beer
for
the
reflection
and
consideration
for
critics
of
a
uniquely
Scottish
solution
to
address
inequality,
and
the
dog
seemed
to
be
many
today
and
stimulate
growth
and
I
agree
with
others
that
how
how
we
worked
through
local
knowledge
is
extremely
important
and
M
I
very
much
welcome
the
establishment
of
the
bank.
Thank
you.
N
R
You
for
serving
officer
and
Scottish
Labour
welcomes
the
Scottish
National
Investment
Bank
bill.
However,
it
does
not
go
far
enough.
The
Bell
Labs
a
strong
objective
for
the
bank
and
it
lacks
ambition
by
the
government.
It
is
an
adequately
capitalized
two
million
pounds
over
ten
years,
there's
not
enough
to
create
a
state
change
in
our
economy.
It's
a
level,
that's
achievable,
but
not
ambitious,
is
Richard.
R
Leonard
said
the
Scottish
Labour
Party
would
look
at
in
financing
it
to
the
tune
of
20
billion
pounds
mm
over
the
same
time
frame,
making
a
step
change
this
two
billion
pounds,
there's
only
200
million
pounds
a
year
and
the
set-up
cost
as
Jackie
Baillie
pointed
out,
are
likely
to
be
right
in
the
region
of
80
million
that
can
lead
for
200
million
per
year.
Budget
would
leave
very
little
for
investment.
R
Scd
I
welcome
the
Sun,
but
contrasted
that
level
of
capitalisation,
with
the
scale
of
the
ambition
set
out
in
the
vision
to
transform
Scotland's
economy
unite
was
not
convinced.
The
two
billion
represented
a
sufficient
level
of
capital
investment
to
deliver
real
economic
change,
and
it's
cited
several
examples
of
projects
that
would
have
almost
taken
up
the
whole
of
the
budget
of
the
bank.
N
B
Intervention
does
that
not
speak
to
the
point,
though,
that
the
the
bank
taken
in
isolation
then
excludes
all
the
other
figures,
so
actually
three
billion
pounds
has
been
committed
to
meet
the
50,000
target,
of
which
the
government
is
on
track
to
build
in
terms
of
housing.
So
when
considering
totality
of
investment
into
our
infrastructure,
you
have
to
look
at
the
the
global
figures
and
not
just
what
is
allocated
through
financial
transactions
or
elsewhere
for
the
purposes
of
a
Scottish
national
investment
bank.
R
Indeed,
but
the
investment
bank
is
going
to
fulfill
the
ambitions
set
out
for
it,
it
needs
to.
It
requires
more
capitalization
than
already
put
forward
by
this
government
did,
for
example,
and
as
year
many
speakers.
In
fact,
almost
all
speakers
spoke
about-
was
climate
change
and
the
move
to
move
to
a
carbon
neutral
economy.
It
means
that
there
is
a
whole
new
and
growing
sector,
an
old
economy
that
needs
to
be
supported,
and
yet
the
bill
is
silent
on.
R
Businesses,
which
could
be
argued,
provide
a
much
greater
economic
impact
on
their
local
communities
and
if
it
is
not
to
lend
to
public
institutions,
how
can
it
make
an
impact
and
things
such
as
housing
that
Pauline
McNeil
was
emphasizing
in
her
speech
meeting
the
challenges
of
the
21st
century
can't
be
met
by
the
private
sector
alone.
If
we're
going
to
address
climate
change,
digitization
and
the
like,
we
need
new
models
of
public
ownership
and
finance,
and
we
must
support
our
homegrown
industries
as
Richard
Leonard.
R
R
The
Scottish
investment
bank
should
I
asked
ethical
questions
of
companies
and
customers
to
determine
whether
they
are
appropriate
to
lend
to
Willie
rainey
talked
about
the
living
wage
and
whether
this
was
appropriate
to
put
on
the
face
of
the
bill,
and
I
believe
it
is
the
living
wage
will
not
change
at
all,
keep
step
with
the
times
and
and
increase
as
required.
So
there
is
no
reason
that
high-level
ambitions
could
not
be
in
the
face
of
the
bill.
R
R
And
boards,
as
Richard
Leonard
said,
is
a
positive
step
to
addressing
this.
Because
if
you
could
be
gender
balance
on
the
board,
then
you
will
make
sure
that
the
workforce
reflects
that
as
well
presiding
officer.
We
support
the
development
of
a
national
investment
bank.
However,
it
needs
work
to
make
sure
it's
built
on
a
solid
foundation,
and
this
certainly
isn't
will
use
the
amendment
stage
of
the
bill
to
amend
it
in
order
to
create
a
Scottish
national
investment
bank
worthy
of
that
name.
R
N
You
very
much
and
before
I
call
mr.
Howell
Johnson
I
like
to
welcome
back
mr.
Rainey
and
mr.
Neal,
who
were
not
present
for
the
beginning
of
the
closing
speeches,
their
old
hands.
They
know
that
that's
required
just
sit
down
just
now,
mr.
Howell,
Johnson
and
and
I
think,
no
matter
how
senior
you
are
in
here.
The
rules
apply
to
everybody.
So
I
don't
see
a
note
of
explanation
about
why
you
both
came
in
late.
N
S
You
very
much
deputy
presiding
officer,
I'm
sure
the
chamber
is
unified
in
our
in
our
disappointment
in
those
scams,
the
legislation
around
the
Scottish
National
Investment
Bank
has
been
long
awaited
as
Jackie
Bailey
suggested
and
Graham
Roy
of
the
Fraser
of
Allender
Institute
pointed
out.
Today's
bill
is
about
the
eighth
time
that
the
Scottish
Government
has
tried
to
establish
something
of
this
nature.
S
Ministers
will
be
aware
that
there
is
a
good
deal
of
support
for
many
of
the
aims
of
this
bill,
but
much
of
the
detail
around
the
delivery
of
the
bank
falls
out
with
the
direct
scope
of
the
legislation,
and
so
we
can
only
hope
that
the
Scottish
government
continues
to
consult
and
to
engage
as
we
move
forward.
As
our
convener
Gordon
Lyndhurst
mentioned,
and
as
a
member
of
the
lead
committee,
the
economy
committee,
myself
I,
feel
obliged
to
highlight
the
body
of
work
that
that
committee
has
conducted
in
this
area.
S
In
addition
to
our
direct
work
on
the
bank,
leading,
of
course
to
today's
stage.
One
report
we've
also
touched
on
many
elements
of
business
finance
over
several
inquiries.
We've
produced
work
on
topics
from
business,
support
to
the
role
of
business
gateway,
the
enterprise
bodies
and
finally,
region
regional
as
selective
assistant
assistants,
as
part
of
our
current
budget.
Scrutiny
and
I
would
commend
a
great
deal
of
this
work
to
the
chamber,
and
it
is
vital
that
any
consideration
of
the
Scottish
national
investment
bank
looks
at
our
current
framework
of
business
support.
S
We
know
that
there
are
significant
issues
around
the
growth
scheme
and,
as
an
our
report
have
suggested
a
number
of
ways
in
which
Scotland's
business
support
lands
with
landscape
should
be
improved.
We
can
also
look
at
the
in
the
examples
both
positive
and
negative,
of
the
Scottish
investment
bank,
which
was
established
with
similar
aims
to
provide
long-term
support,
an
investment
in
the
Scottish
economy.
We
don't
expect
the
bank
to
be
a
panacea,
but
it
can
with
the
right
organization
and
support,
be
a
positive
actor
in
our
economy.
S
Organizations
like
Highlands
and
Islands
Enterprise
have
long
experience
of
navigating
the
business
environment
there
and
it
would
be
a
lost
if
that
local
institutional
knowledge
was
diluted
by
the
by
the
bank's
engagement
in
this
area.
We've
seen
examples
of
a
regional
focus
in
the
Development
Bank
of
Wales,
which
is
a
number
of
offices
around
the
country.
The
Scottish
Government
has
rejected
this
model,
and
the
cabinet
sector
gave
his
reasons
in
evidence
to
the
committee.
S
We
will
work
to
get
this
bill
right
and
the
cabinet
secretary
in
Decatur
dinh
committee.
His
hope
that
the
parliamentary
process
would
lead
to
further
improvements
to
the
government's
proposals.
I
welcome
that
approach
and
hope
he
honors
that
which
leads
me
to
some
of
the
other
speeches
and
ideas
from
around
the
chamber
today,
my
colleague
Tom
Mason,
set
out
both
the
opportunities
and
the
challenges
of
creating
a
new
institution.
S
He
also
spoke
of
the
remit,
the
objectives
and
the
mission
of
the
bank
areas,
which
would
be
crucial
not
only
to
its
success
but
to
its
wider
role
in
the
Scot
in
Scottish
society.
He
echoed
points
made
on
the
changing
remit
of
the
bank.
He
questioned
how
the
bank
would
treat
businesses
moving
towards
more
environmentally-conscious
models
and
he
covered
many
of
the
financial
elements
we've
explored
in
committee.
S
Richard
Leonard
spoke
about
the
the
the
mission
of
the
bank,
the
makeup
of
the
bank,
that
board
and
and
while
I
respect
his
opinion,
I
think
he's
looking
to
create
an
idealized
but
unworkable
Bank
going
forward.
Jamie
Greenpoint
is
the
difference
that
long
term
investment
priorities
were
made
to
the
government
and
the
need
to
look
at
what
success
means
in
the
context
of
the
wider
economy.
S
He
also
explored
the
lessons
of
previous
development
funding
models,
particularly
the
growth
scheme,
and
he
made
an
important
point
that
availability
of
credit
cannot
alone
make
business
thrive,
while
there
are
main
significant
gaps
in
growth
and
innovation
here
in
Scotland,
any
real
progress,
if
we
as
we've
seen,
will
depend
on
the
wider
business
environment
and
in
that
regard,
the
Scottish
Government
has
much
work
to
do.
Alec
Neil
made
a
barnstorming
speech,
promoting
I,
think
global
Britain,
global
Scotland
and
opportunities
outside
of
the
EU
and
Canada
lost
support
from
these
benches.
S
Certainly,
the
opportunities
are
endless,
he
said
and
of
course,
he's
right
and
Jackie
Baillie
was
also
raised.
She
highlighted
the
the
important
role
as
raised
as
well
by
Dean
Lockhart
in
an
intervention
of
the
financial
UK's
financial
tractions
transactions
from
the
UK
Treasury
in
helping
finance
the
bank
going
forward
and
Dean
Locke
had
also
outlined
the
need
to
manage
expectations
around
the
bank
that
it
cannot
go
too
far
in
yielding
two
competing
ambitions.
S
The
original
objective
of
providing
patient
capital
into
the
Scottish
economy
we've
heard
that
there
needs
to
be
a
clarity
of
focus
as
well
as
working
across
agencies
and
other
bodies,
both
at
a
Scottish
and
at
a
UK
level.
The
risk
is,
of
course,
that
the
the
bank
serves
to
duplicate
work
that
is
currently
carried
out
by
other
organisations.
As
Dean
Locke
noted.
None
of
these
concerns
in
new
they
were
raised
in
the
debate
in
May
last
year.
S
However,
the
problem
with
managing
expectations
has
grown
since
this
time
with
a
list
of
different
ills
that
the
bank
is
supposed
to
address.
Getting
even
longer,
we've
heard
some
of
the
evidence
in
committee
around
costs.
Time
and
time
again
witnesses
questioned
the
assertion
that
the
bank
can
be
self-financing
from
20
23
to
24.
Indeed,
there
does
not
seem
to
be
that
there
does
seem
some
tension
between
the
desire
for
patient
capital
and
the
hope
of
quick
and
easy
returns.
S
There
are
also
real
concerns
about
how
the
provisions
of
the
mission
of
the
bank
will
impact
its
operational
independence
and
time
scales
involved
in
reporting
with
amendments
expected
at
stage.
Two
will
be
interesting
to
hear
ministers
responses,
presiding
officer,
as
has
been
highlighted
today
on
the
Herold
website.
S
This
is
a
vital
time
for
the
bank
to
go
through
as
I
think
it
was
135
million
pounds
of
Scottish
government
and
taxpayer
money
has
been
written
off
to
prop
up
failing
company
companies,
so
it's
vital
vital
that
we
get
this
right
and
we
can
all
agree
on
the
importance
of
the
organization
that
exists
behind
public
sector
financial
support
as
this
bill
moves
forward.
I
hope
that
the
Scottish
Government
can
maintain
a
clarity
of
a
vision
around
its
core
objectives.
N
B
Thanks
very
much
presenting
also
an
occluding
for
that
very
generous
allocation
of
time,
which
maybe
explains
why
I
was
trying
to
intervene
on
some
members
earlier
I
noticed
that
you
have
the
beauty
of
our
members
of
the
chamber
in
terms
of
the
retained
ins,
there
was
a
wee
bit
less
out
of
the
kind
of
rebuke
we've
seen
in
Westminster
of
late
and
I.
Think
that
debate
we've
had
in
the
Scottish
Parliament
is
very
useful
contrast
right
now
to
show
how
we're
getting
on
with
the
day
job
and
trying
to
deliver
the
transformation.
Transformational.
B
Interventions
that
will
support
our
economy.
I
actually
think
they
can
same
show
to
be.
A
members
were
quite
right
to
go
through
their
issues,
of
course,
and
I
want
to
respond
in
a
spirit
of
collaboration
and
cooperation,
move
to
stage
two
and
stage
three
I'll
try
and
respond
to
a
as
many
and
reflect
upon
as
many
comments
as
I
can.
It
is
important
to
say,
though,
presiding
officer,
that
many
of
these
considerations,
it
might
not
be
for
the
face
of
the
bell
or
a
primary
legislation,
but
can
be
covered
in
a
range
of
documents.
B
So
we
want
to
reassure
all
members
that
there
are
many
appropriate
places
to
to
place
the
kind
of
a
direction
that
Parliament
would
like
to
see,
but
we
do
need
to
address
the
issue.
Of
course,
oh
well
in
just
a
second,
but
we
do
need
to
fill
it
instead
of
the
appropriate
balance
of
decision-making.
That
addresses
the
points
been
made
by
many
members
about
accountability,
direction
and
transparency,
but
also
the
operational
independence
that
will
ensure
that
this
Bank
is
a
success.
Gordon.
D
B
Certainly
reflect
on
that
and
I
think
I
will
do
over
the
course
of
my
comments
that
we
are
looking
at
best
practice
around
the
world
in
terms
of
investment
strategies,
the
national
investment
bank,
in
both
skill
and
intervention,
and
we
have
leaned
very
heavily
on
the
work
of
Professor
Mazur
Kato,
as
the
convener
knows
only
too
well.
What
mentioned
was
also
made
of
a
artificial
intelligence
and
potential
investment
and
there
and
the
intelligence
within
the
chamber
as
well.
On
occasion,
some
members
of
the
opposition
engage
in
artificial
objections.
B
I
would
suggest
I'm,
not
referencing
Jackie
Baillie,
particularly
here,
but
I'll
come
back
to
Jackie
Bailey's
comments
in
relation
to
the
investment,
but
let's
not
lose
sight
of
one
really
important
point,
because
Jimmy
green
quite
rightly
spoke
about
business.
Support
is
exactly
no.
It
is
true
to
see
that
many
businesses
actually
don't
need
to
wait
for,
of
course,
agency
support
right
now
and
we
should
say
in
post
them
to
the
support
in
the
products
that
are
already
available
in
the
government's
enterprise.
B
Family
is
still
attracting
investment
and
a
new
jobs
and
scale
ups
and
startups
in
Scotland.
Right
now,
and
many
of
those
interventions
are
be
to
be
welcomed
and
the
Scottish
investment
bank
has
been
working
successfully.
But
of
course,
what
we
want
to
do
here
is
transformational
and
at
scale
and
to
touch
on
the
point
that
a
number
of
members
have
made.
This
is
about
an
all
of
Scotland
approach
as
well,
so
we
have
a
support
of
business
environment.
B
L
B
Certainly
agree
with
those
those
comments
and,
of
course
we
would
want
every
investment
to
be
a
success,
but
with
that
level
of
risk,
then
some
will
not
succeed.
But
it
is
the
right
thing
to
do
to
say
out
the
missions
to
transform
our
economy
and
are
we
that
response
to
the
agenda
that
was
fair
in
terms
of
the
economy,
the
environment
and,
of
course,
our
desire
to
have
a
highly
skilled
workforce
as
well.
We
both
focused
on
more
than
just
the
financial
returns.
I
was
a
key
point
that
God
lend
house
has
made.
B
It
will
have
that
mission
focused
that
a
number
of
members
have
stressed
in
terms
of
a
blockhouse
a
point.
The
will
be
more
to
this
than
just
what
is
in
the
legislation,
touched
on
the
running
cost,
as
did
other
members.
Of
course,
we
would
have
find
those
a
operating
course
and
and
make
sure
that
Parliament
is
made
aware
of
them.
We'll
also
look
at
the
entirety
of
their
enterprise
landscape,
to
make
sure
that
it's
structured
in
such
a
way
to
address
any
concerns
about
duplication.
B
The
bank
should
be
adding
addition,
a
Latino
substitute
finance
and
also
make
sure
that
traditional
banks
in
Scotland
continue
to
do
their
job
a
as
well.
Eight
questions
were
asked
about
expanding
successful
programs.
Of
course,
we'll
try
and
look
at
that
as
well.
It
Richard,
Leonard,
I,
think
aim
has
talked
about
the
scale
of
ambition
for
the
bank.
B
I
think
we
do
have
to
look
about
also
what
I
thought
the
ball
a
as
well
as
what
we
want
the
bank
to
achieve
and
I
think
the
just
transition
will
be
very
helpful
in
advising
us
just
as
Anna
Cunningham
joins
me,
and
what
that
new
economy
looks
like
as
well.
In
relation
to
say,
no,
those
missions,
a
number
of
members,
have
asked,
will
they
engage
fully
and
gave
reference
to
Parliament
in
relation
to
the
missions?
Yes,
sir,
well
join
me
and
ask
me
about
reference
around
the
articles
of
association.
B
Yes,
I
will
engage
with
that
as
well.
Well,
I
listened
to
Parliament,
of
course,
I
will
and
the
Whiteman
has
asked
about
the
sustainable
model
and
how
we
grow.
The
green
economy
and
I.
Think,
there's
much
in
that,
of
course,
that
we
should
pursue
through
the
National
Investment
Bank,
but
I
do
believe
that
we
have
an
optimal
model
to
deliver.
The
ambitions
for
a
the
bank.
It
will
engage.
Further
is
a
C
on
that
parliamentary
consultation,
question
and
I.
B
Look
forward
to
the
cross
party
work
a
that
I
have
a
committee
to
Welli
Rainey
deadlies
a
break
set.
We've
tried
to
focus
on
what
we
can
do
here,
but
of
course
breaks
is
the
main
threat
to
the
economy
in
Scotland
right
now,
but
he
spoke
to
the
transformational
nature
of
the
Bank,
a
and
on
the
scale
and
pace
of
delivery
and
in
questions
around
social
conditions
such
as
a
living
wage.
That'll,
give
further
thought
to
a
Annabelle.
Ewing
gave
a
very
thoughtful
contribution:
I
emphasize
the
strength
of
patient,
a
finance
and
their
they
approach.
B
They
are
the
the
fact
that
this
is
the
enabling
legislation.
Labels
investment
are
important
importance
of
the
advisory
group,
the
composition
of
and
the
purpose
off
as
well,
and
she
quoted
s
versus
my
own
slogan,
Jimmy.
How
cruel
Johnson
was
worried
about
me,
plagiarizing
other
people's
slogans.
My
slogan
was
that
success
will
look
like
allowing
things
to
happen
which
otherwise
would
not
have
happened
if
this
financial
institution
wasn't
there
and
Annabelle
Ewing
very
kindly
quoted
me
on
that.
B
Tom
Mason,
it
covered
I
think
a
very
helpful
point:
around
diversification
and
transition
to
support
those
sectors
that
want
to
move
to
that
low-carbon
agenda.
We
should
support
them
through
the
functions
and
products
of
the
bank
as
well,
and
what
deference
the
bank
can
make
in
terms
of
combining
funds
and
addressing
particular
need
and
demand.
Alec
Neil
gave
a
very
powerful
speech
on
the
ability
to
transform
the
economy
if
we
get
there
right
and
also
spoke
of
the
benefits,
a
or
bringing
more
companies
to
Scotland
in
terms
of
headquarters
and
the
other
domestic
base.
B
Skousen
talent
and,
of
course,
there's
been
some
specs
access.
Studies
and
announcements
meet
already
through
the
economic
strategy
that
we
have
Jackie
Bailey
did
raise
legitimate
questions.
I,
don't
do
repayment
profile
of
financial
transactions
happy
to
get
back
to
further
detail
on
that
and
reviewing
the
tools
that
we
have
is
always
an
ongoing
process
to
respond
to
what
business
and
industry
actually
need.
As
we
lead
to
the
operational
delivery
of
the
bank
itself
and
I,
wouldn't
describe
the
operating
course
of
the
organization
as
money
lost.
B
If
the
bank
gets
that
right,
it
will
have
a
transformational
impact
or
in
the
economy
in
that
operational
cost
will
be
money
well
spent
I
have
one
minute
left
to
go,
Jackie
so
I'm
afraid
I'm
going
to
have
to
decline.
You
on
this
occasion,
hey
John,
Mason
John
Mason
and
spoke
about
not
being
over
prescriptive
in
areas
such
as
the
committee
structure
of
the
bank,
but
we'll
look
for
reassurance
around
the
areas
that
members
are
interested
in
and
again
to
reinforce
the
point
I
made
to
Jamie
Greene.
B
If
there
are
companies
that
want
financial
support
right
now,
there
are
many
products
that
currently
can
be
deployed
to
support
our
business
community
to
thrive
and
succeed.
Right
now,
a
polling
MacNeil
covered
housing,
absolutely
critical.
It
will
welcome
the
fact
that
the
precursor
funds
have
been
used
to
support
housing.
I
hope
that
that
will
continue
during
MacAlpine
I
spoke
about
the
weights.
B
The
weight
spread
support
for
this
bill
and
for
the
bank,
which
is
certainly
appreciated,
and
that's
why
we
want
to
take
it
forward,
and
many
members
have
spoken
about
the
opportunity
we
have
to
invest
resources
to
achieve
our
climate
change
and
versions.
That's
been
discussed
recently
in
Parliament,
so
this
is
an
ambitious
program.
B
This
enabling
legislation
will
allow
us
to
build
the
bank
in
a
fashion
that
members
have
described
and
I
think
it's
a
major
intervention
and
I
look
forward
to
the
support
across
the
chamber,
as
we
continue
to
progress
that,
unless
cross-party
in
collaborative
fashion,
Tomica
success
of
the
Scottish
national
investment
bank.
Thank
you
much.
I
Thank
you
very
much
cabinet
secretary.
That
concludes
our
debate
on
stage
one
of
the
Scottish
national
investment
bank
bill.
The
next
item
is
consideration
of
motion.
One
eight,
seven,
eight
zero
on
a
financial
resolution
and
could
I
call
on
the
camera
secretary
to
move
this
motion.
Thank
you
very
much,
so
we
turn
now
to
decision
time.
So
just
two
questions
today.
The
first
question
is
that
motion
one
nine
zero
six
one
in
the
name
of
Derrick
McKey
on
the
Scottish
national
investment
bank
bill
be
agreed,
are
L
agreed.