►
Description
Members' Business: Residential Outdoor Centres
A
I
bring
everyone
to
order,
please.
The
final
item
of
business
is
a
members
business
debate
on
motion22652
in
the
name
of
liz
smith,
on
residential
outdoor
centers,
and
this
debate
will
be
concluded
without
any
questions
being
put
with
those
members
who
wish
to
speak
in
the
debate
in
the
debate.
Please
re
press
the
request
to
speak
buttons
or
if
anyone
is
remote,
press
are
in
the
chat
function
and
I
call
on
liz
smith
to
open
the
debate.
Please
for
around
seven
minutes.
B
B
B
When
I
returned
the
anxieties
with
which
I'd
started
out
had
been
completely
defeated
and
replaced
with
a
new
mood
of
confidence
of
self-discipline
and
a
much
deeper
understanding
of
who
I
was,
I
could
cook
put
up
a
tent,
build
a
campfire
fish
and
walk
climb,
the
hills
for
hours
on
end.
But,
more
importantly,
I
learned
about
what
it
means
to
be
part
of
a
team
about
leadership
and
about
valuing
friendship.
B
B
B
That
is
a
hammer
blow.
2.3
million
have
lost
income
for
the
scouts
alone
for
the
scottish
outdoor
education
centres.
50
jobs
are
at
stake,
despite
the
fact
that
they
have
lots
of
inquiries
for
bookings
in
2021
which
make
up
almost
half
a
million
pounds
of
income,
but
they
can
see
with
the
current
growth
in
covert
19
and
the
ongoing
uncertainties
that
schools
and
local
authorities
will
be
very
unlikely
to
send
youngsters
to
the
outdoor
education
centres
for
the
rest
of
this
term
and
possibly
for
the
spring
term.
B
in
2008.
We
were
advised
by
the
soec
that
that
would
probably
be
around
160
pounds
per
pupil.
So
now
I
expect
it
probably
is
nearer
250
000,
but
the
outdoor
centers
told
me
at
the
time
that
they
never
really
saw
that
money,
and
so
it
is
really
time
to
focus
all
our
minds.
This
is
not
a
party
political
issue.
This
is
for
all
of
us.
B
B
This
parliament,
whether
in
the
chamber
or
in
committee,
is
all
too
accustomed
to
debating
the
progress
of
education
in
numbers,
the
number
of
teachers,
the
number
of
sqa
passes,
the
percentage
increase
in
literacy
and
numeracy
class
sizes.
When
much
more
often,
we
should
be
turning
our
attention
to
the
qualitative
aspects
of
education
aspects
which
can't
be
reduced
to
numbers
but
which,
I
would
argue,
are
intrinsic
to
what
can
be
defined
as
good
quality
education.
B
I
have
no
doubt
whatsoever.
The
education
in
an
outdoor
environment
provides
one
of
the
most
valuable
and
most
rewarding
learning
experiences
for
a
wide
range
of
pupils,
no
matter
what
their
backgrounds
are
or
their
abilities
to
lose.
That
precious
asset
is
an
unconscionable
thought
and
I
hope
the
scottish
government
hears
this
evening.
The
loud
message
that
is
coming
from
the
sector:
if
we
don't
get
action
on
this,
then
they
will
not
exist.
A
A
C
C
C
They
also
support
an
appreciation
of
the
natural
world,
quite
often
giving
young
people
a
chance
to
learn
about
different
plant
species
as
well
as
wild
animals.
They
take
young
people
away
from
video
games.
Do
not
have
criticism
of
video
games.
They
too
share
of
an
important
purpose,
but
it's
good
to
find
a
balance
and
are
great
outdoors.
We
think
we
can
all
agree
can
often
be
so
easily
lost.
C
The
range
of
activities
offered
are
often
mapped
without
come
sought
through
the
curriculum
for
excellence,
demonstrating
pretty
effectively
that
learning
can
be
fun.
In
my
own
constituency
we
have
the
spectacular
foil
setting
that
is,
that
took
the
home
to
the
doonan's
outdoor
education
centre
at
the
heart
of
oklahoman
and
trosex
national
park
area.
C
C
C
C
C
I
drew
them
disappointed
it's
not
yet
deemed
safe
enough
to
open
residential
facilities
such
as
these.
However,
I
accept
the
role
of
scientific
advisors
in
this
process,
with
the
absolute
priority
being
to
protect
public
health
signals.
In
conclusion,
the
motion
we're
debating
points
to
a
petition
looking
discouraged
to
provide
financial
support
to
residential
centers.
I
know
the
scottish
government
will
do
what
it
can
in
this
regard,
but
but
beyond
party
politics,
I
don't
generally
find
a
lot
to
disagree
with
with
liz
smith
on
she's
a
member
of
this
place.
C
I
have
a
lot
of
respect
for,
however,
liz
smith,
like
others,
is
well
aware
that
the
covert
crisis
meant
that
unprecedented
amounts
of
funding
have
had
to
be
pumped
into
your
nhs
and
the
economy.
Much
of
the
money
has
committed
from
uk
state
borrowing,
a
power
which,
unfortunately,
poland
polaroid
does
not
yet
have.
I
therefore
hope
that
liz
smith
and
other
members
will
therefore
recognize
the
reality
of
the
devolved.
C
Financial
restrictions
means
that
in
all
likelihood,
any
additional
support
may
also
require
to
flow
from
the
treasury,
I'm
truly
on
board
with
finding
solutions
to
supporting
these
important
centers,
but
we
need
to
be
serious
and
realistic
about
what
these
solutions
are
to
be.
Thank
you,
president
officer.
E
E
E
We
take
children
away
from
their
instagram
accounts
and
their
playstations,
and
they
stick
them
in
an
environment
where
they
have
to
reconnect
with
nature
with
the
grey
outdoors,
but,
more
importantly,
reconnect
with
each
other.
Friendships
are
made,
new
skills
are
required,
self-confidence
is
boosted,
and
lessons
are
learned
that
may
last
a
lifetime.
E
There's
no
end
to
the
benefits,
but
if,
and
indeed
when
we
come
out
of
lockdown
in
life
becomes
normal
education,
centers
will
have
a
massive
role
to
play
in
young
people's
life,
but
only
if
they
exist,
and
we
know
that,
as
as
the
previous
member
said,
that
the
chronovirus
has
had
an
impact
on
things.
But
the
physical
impact
is
nothing
like
the
mental
impact
that
the
virus
is
having
on
young
people.
E
In
my
view,
they've
been
disproportionately
affected
and
the
vast
majority
of
these
young
people
have
seen
their
mental
health,
challenged
feelings
of
social
isolation
and
loneliness,
it's
okay
sitting
in
front
of
a
computer
game,
but
you
need
to
interact
with
other
human
beings,
the
least
at
that
age,
and
the
great
outdoors,
I
think,
provides
that
much
needed
clarity
of
mind,
fresh
air
and
some
good
old-fashioned
exposure
to
the
elements
and
that's
not
always
achievable
on
a
day
trip.
Therefore,
that
highlights
the
importance
of
residential
stays.
E
Now
I
accept
that
the
unavoidable
restrictions
of
light
have
rendered
many
of
these
places
of
learning
out
of
bounds
for
obvious
reasons,
but
this
is
financially
insufferable
for
them.
I'm
privileged
to
have
a
number
of
excellent
outdoor
education
centers
in
my
region,
which
give
children,
particularly
those
from
disadvantaged
backgrounds,
on
the
mainland,
valuable
experiences
on
the
isle
of
aaron
alone.
There
are
two
outdoor
centers,
the
lochrans
outdoor
center,
which
has
been
around
for
over
45
years
and
the
iron
outdoor
center
in
langlais,
in
on
the
mainland
in
dull
ride.
E
E
Let's
not
beat
about
the
bush
they're
heavily
reliant
on
these
residential
visits
for
a
huge
proportion
of
their
income,
they're
stuck
between
a
rock
and
a
hard
place
on
one
hand,
they're
being
told
that
residential
trips
cannot
resume
until
at
least
spring
next
year,
but
on
the
other
hand,
they're
being
denied
the
first
financial
support
they
need
to
guarantee
their
very
existence
and
without
support.
Wherever
it
comes
from,
we
can
have
that
debate.
E
These
fantastic
centers
will
be
lost
forever
and
we've
heard,
as
listeners
said
from
the
industry
that
as
many
as
half
could
close,
that's
not
just
a
warning.
It's
a
prediction:
it's
not
as
simple,
either
as
just
extending
one
measure
of
support,
such
as
schemes
like
job
retention
as
important
as
they
are,
the
costs
of
keeping
a
centre
running
go
far
and
beyond
that,
as
is
the
case
with
any
business.
Running
costs
are
about
more
than
just
people
costs.
E
As
we
know,
beyond
outdoor
learning,
centers,
the
scouts
and
girl
guidance
services
themselves
are
under
a
very
threat
facing
the
most
serious
challenge
in
their
history,
and
we've
already
seen
the
first
casualties
of
that,
and
I
hope
that's
not
a
sign
of
things
to
come,
but
we
cannot
in
good
conscience
let
that
happen.
So
I
urge
the
scottish
government
to
listen.
This
is
not
hobby,
it's
not
fringe.
It's
not
extracurricular.
E
F
Thank
you,
deputy
presiding
officer,
and
can
I
begin
by
echoing
the
thanks
to
liz
smith
for
securing
this
debate,
because
this
is
a
crucial
issue
that
will
affect
our
ability
to
educate
our
young
people
in
a
very
fundamental
sense.
At
the
start
of
last
century,
we
had
a
a
transformation
in
our
thinking
about
the
outdoors,
as
it
relates
to
education,
with
figures
like
kurt
haan
and
others
really
leading
the
way
in
arguing
that
outdoors
shouldn't
be
something
extra
to
education.
F
F
Embedding
these
understandings
that
outdoor
education
is
absolutely
essential
to
learning
not
peripheral
to
it,
that
we
find
ourselves
in
a
situation
where
outdoor
education
and
outdoor
education
centers
are
faced
with
such
a
threat
as
they
are
today
and,
let's
be
clear,
the
benefits
of
a
residential
outdoor
education
and-
and
I
think
it's
important
to
emphasize
the
residential
nature.
I
think
we're
brought
to
life
by
liz
smith.
F
In
her
remarks,
we've
all
experienced
the
the
richness
of
the
learning
experience
through
camping
trips,
hiking
in
the
hills
and
through
it's
through
the
application
of
knowledge
in
the
outdoors
that
we
learn
a
much
broader
set
of
skills.
True
life
skills,
and
indeed
we
now
know
the
important
role
that
being
in
the
outdoors
and
learning
about
the
outdoors
has
on
mental
health
and
critically.
F
The
curriculum
for
excellence
itself
says
that
that
provision
should
be
mixed
provision
that
it
should
not
be
simply
provided
by
the
schools,
and
that
is
why
the
crisis
faced
by
these
organizations
and
the
potential
loss
of
these
centers
is
so
as
serious
in
terms
of
our
ability
to
deliver
outdoor
education
as
a
whole.
And,
let's
be
clear,
this
crisis
is
pronounced
and
it
is
serious
with
some
of
these
organizers
saying
simply
another
six
months,
let
alone
another
12
months
of
the.
F
F
Organizations
are
looking
at
closing
centres
in
order
to
meet
the
costs
that
they
have
been
unable
to
avoid
through
the
months
of
lockdown,
and
let
us
also
be
clear
that
the
scottish
government
interventions
have
fallen
short,
and
I
understand
what
bruce
crawford
said
in
his
remarks.
There
is
not
limitless
finances
available,
but
let
us
also
be
clear
that
the
third
sector
resilience
fund
fell
short
when
it
came
to
outdoor
education
organizations
when
they
made
their
applications,
they
were
told
they
did
not
qualify.
F
G
Thank
you,
deputy
signing
officer.
I
too
thank
my
colleague
liz
smith
for
leading
this
debate
today
and
bringing
it
to
the
chamber.
I
join
in
recognizing
the
urgent
challenges
currently
facing
a
sector
which
have
all
been
well
highlighted
so
far,
and
particularly
by
the
ongoing
public
campaign.
The
residential
outdoor
activity,
centers
have
long
been
a
vibrant
feature
of
scotland's
education
system
and
a
very
important
jewel
in
the
crown,
and
the
pressures
of
the
pandemic
have
reduced
many
of
these
centres
to
precarious
and
fast
diminishing
existence.
G
50
apprentices
were
sent
to
the
various
schools
around
the
around
the
uk,
but
I
drew
the
short
straw
because
I
was
due
to
go
in
may,
but
I
asked
I
was
asked
if
I'd
go
in
january
and
if
anybody
knows
bird
head
in
january,
you
know
exactly
what
you
got
to
put
up
with.
Nevertheless,
I
had
a
wonderful
time
and
my
memories
are
of
arriving
at
elgin
station
meet
met
by
the
lorry
from
the
outward
bound
trust.
G
G
So
there
are
lots
to
be
gained,
but
can
I
move
on
to
another
area
is
of
course,
which
is
close
to
my
heart.
Is
the
sea
cadets
army,
cadets
and
also
the
air
force
cadets,
because
we
incorporate
in
our
training
two
week
camps
per
year,
and
these
are
crucial,
they're
residential
camps,
crucial
to
the
development
of
the
cadets
and,
of
course,
we're
lucky
that
we
managed
to
fund
that
through
our
other
means.
G
But
the
outdoor
centers
who
stand
independently
under
current
guidelines
can
provide
day
trips
only,
but
the
lack
of
cost
provision
from
schools
and
parents,
coupled
with
the
practicalities
of
organizing
travel
to
rural
spots,
has
limited
the
uptake
considerably.
In
any
case,
most
centres
are
heavily
dependent
on
residential
visits
for
their
income,
which
day
trips
can
earn
and
unable
to
provide.
Now
my
own
region
of
west
scotland,
and,
along
with
my
colleague,
jamie
green
here,
is
home
to
quite
a
few
of
scotland's
residential
activities.
G
So,
unfortunately,
you
know
this
is
not
a
net
rare
case
and
the
charity.
Children
first,
who
drew
my
attention
to
another
center,
are
roy,
which
helps
young
people
and
their
families
affected
by
mental
health
challenges
to
better
support
children
in
their
recovery
from
traumatic
experiences,
and
therefore
the
covert
19
has
called
for
innovative
and
creative
activity
by
the
staff
and
how
they
can
take
their
services
forward.
G
The
best
alternative
has
been
to
keep
the
sector
running
in
deploying
staff
to
work
directly
with
the
schools
and
local
authorities
to
deliver
learning
outdoor
learning
and
equip
teachers
to
do
the
same,
but
this
can
only
be
done.
Deputy
designing
officer
with
financial
assistance
assistance
not
just
to
survive
the
crisis,
but
to
actually
thrive,
and
as
jamie
greene
mentioned
earlier,
the
blairvatic
center,
very
close
to
my
own
home
in
helensborough,
is
an
absolute
outstanding
example
and
we
managed
to
save
it.
G
A
H
Thank
you
very
much
deputy
presiding
officer,
and
can
I
say
at
the
outset
I
really
warmly
welcome
this
debate
and
thank
liz
smith
for
bringing
it
forward,
and
perhaps
it's
a
timely
bridge
between
her
previous
portfolio
and
education
and
her
new
role
as
environment
spokesperson.
Very
much
welcome
her
in
that
new
role.
The
huge
outpouring
of
support
for
scotland's
outdoor
education,
centers
and
their
staff
in
recent
weeks
really
shouldn't
surprise
any
of
us.
H
The
permanent
closure
of
the
argionic
centre,
near
kellen,
for
example,
came
as
a
huge
blow
to
schools
who
are
planning
to
take
their
pupils
there.
This
year
and
other
centres
like
the
belmont
center
in
strathmore
valley
or
the
doonan
centre
near
aberfoill,
haven't
yet
reached
that
point
of
crisis
that
they
and
many
other
centers
are
struggling
and
people
are
genuinely
worried
about
the
future.
H
H
The
cost
of
setting
up
these
centers
from
scratch
again
in
2020
would
be
absolutely
astronomical
running
to
millions
and
millions
of
pounds,
as
well
as
providing
support
to
deliver
alternative
models
of
education
in
the
short
term.
There
must
be
funds
put
in
place
to
multiple
outdoor
centers
for
the
short
term.
H
It's
quite
clear
that
these
centers
cannot
be
lost.
If
that
happens
after
education
will
be
devastated,
each
centre
is
as
integral
part
of
the
education
state
as
a
school
building.
We
don't
take
decisions
to
close
schools
lightly.
We
shouldn't
allow
these
census
to
close
by
an
unforeseen
circumstance,
part
of
a
green
education-led
recovery
out
of
the
covert
crisis.
H
I
I
On
a
personal
level.
I
declare
an
interest.
I
benefited
hugely
from
access
to
outdoor
education
has
indeed
did
both
of
my
sons,
maybe
not
to
the
same
extent
as
morris,
corey
and
in
more
temperate
climates,
but
nevertheless
growing
up
in
orkney.
Some
might
see
this
as
inevitable,
but
that
I
think,
would
be
to
underestimate
the
part
played
by
teachers
by
youth
workers
by
volunteers
and
others
working
in
this
sector.
Bringing
outdoor
education
alive
to
inform,
to
engage
to
enthuse,
takes
real
skill,
understanding
and
commitment
the
outdoor
center
in
hawaii.
I
My
constituency
has
come
a
long
way
since
I
stayed,
and
it's
rather
more
basic
predecessor,
hostel
back
in
the
1980s,
but
unchanged
is
the
impact
that
trips
to
these
centres
can
and
do
have
on
a
child
or
young
person's
sense
of
themselves,
their
self-confidence
and
their
ability
to
work
as
part
of
a
team
or
indeed
on
their
own
initiative.
We
underestimate
our
costs,
the
life,
lessons
and
skills
that
can
be
gained
from
kayaking,
bouldering,
rock
climbing
or
just
sitting
around
the
campfire
telling
stories,
and
these
benefits
are
tangible.
I
They
can
be
measured
and
as
daniel
johnson
liz
smith
and
others
have
said,
they
fit
effortlessly
with
the
principles
of
curriculum
for
excellence
as
well
as
other
key
objectives.
Ministers
claim
are
important
to
this
government
as
a
guiding
ambassador.
I
fully
endorse
the
arguments
made
by
girl
guiding
scotland
in
their
briefing
about
the
role
of
outdoor
learning
and
addressing
gaps
in
attainment,
but
also
in
helping
improve
mental
health
and
well-being.
I
A
few
minutes
talking
to
those
fortunate
enough
to
attended
the
guide
cottage
and
offer
in
my
constituency
will
will
be
left
no
doubt
about
this.
Indeed,
it's
a
theme
that
children
first
also
pick
up
in
their
briefing
informed
by
their
work
with
some
of
the
most
vulnerable
children
and
young
people
in
our
country,
deputy
presiding
officer
outdoor
education
has
faced
challenges
for
a
number
of
years.
Now.
The
fact
that
we've
now
reached
crisis
point
at
precisely
the
moment
when
outdoor
centers
should
be
coming
into
their
own
is
the
cruelest
of
ironies.
I
I
We
need
to
promote
to
teachers
and
schools,
outdoor
education
sessions
and
day
trips.
At
a
time
when
preschool
and
nursery
children
are
being
encouraged
on
this
route,
we
risk
creating
a
cliff
edge
once
they
reach
primary
school,
as
outdoor
centres
are
forced
to
close
their
doors.
Ultimately,
though,
presiding
officer,
we
need
our
outdoor
centres
and
outdoor
education.
I
thank
the
smith
for
allowing
parliament
an
opportunity
to
spell
out
that
message
and
urge
the
government
to
respond
positively
and
with
urgency
to
the
polite
face
by
this
vital
sector.
Thank
you.
A
Before
I
call
mr
balfour,
but
still
with
quite
a
few
members
who
would
like
to
speak
in
the
debate,
so
I'm
happy
to
accept
a
motion
under
rule
8,
14,
3,
that
the
debate
be
extended
back
to
30
minutes
move
deputy
officer.
Thank
you.
The
question
is
that
the
debate
be
extended
by
up
to
30
minutes.
Are
we
all
agreed?
J
Thank
you
deputy
president.
Obviously
I
won't
take
the
full
30
minutes
you've,
just
given
us
an
extension,
but
I
I
do
want
to
start
by
again
declaring
interest,
like
other
speakers,
have,
because,
as
a
child
growing
up,
I
benefited
both
from
going
on
school
trips,
but
also
summer
holidays,
going
to
outdoor
centers
and
learning
to
do
lots
of
things
and
that
perhaps
I
wouldn't
have
been
able
to
do
at
staying
here
in
edinburgh,
and
I
want
the
same
for
future
generations.
I
want
the
same
for
my
daughters.
J
J
I
think
there's
also
another
danger
which
hasn't
been
picked
up
by
other
speakers.
Yet
is
that
the
short-term
danger
is
that
we
live,
lose
the
expertise
of
many
of
the
staff
that
work
in
these
centers.
I've
been
grateful
for
a
number
of
conversations
with
different
centres
over
the
last
couple
of
days,
and
that
was
how
they
started.
It
wasn't
about
buildings
and
it
wasn't
about
structures.
J
K
Thank
you.
The
expertise
is
not
as
you've
just
alluded
to
the
fact
that
the
skills
of
taking
people
rock
climbing
or
canoeing
or
the
other
things
it's
actually
dealing
with
children,
and
that
comes
from
years
of
experience
of
actually
seeing
people
in
situations
are
you
worried,
like
I
am
that
that
will
be
lost
as
well.
J
Think
that's
a
very
fair
point
made
by
mr
martin
a
very
good
point
to
make,
but
that
does
disappear,
but
they
decide
to
go
off
and
find
other
jobs
in
other
areas,
and
so,
when
these
centres
hopefully
do
reopen
they're
simply
not
that
expertise
there
anymore.
Now
again
we
can
debate
how
that
should
happen.
J
Look
at
what
conversations
you
can
have
with
kosler
look
at
what
conversations
you
can
have
with
local
authorities
to
keep
these
centers,
even
if
it
is
for
only
day
trips
at
the
moment
going
which
will
protect
it.
Yes,
this
is
going
to
cost
money
and
yes,
the
minister
and
his
government.
Obviously
opposition
parties
stand
up
and
simply
out
for
money,
but
in
this
case
is
money
that
we
need
to
find
to
save
that
legacy
for
future
generations.
Thank
you.
D
D
Scotland's
residential
outdoor
centers
have
been
a
key
feature
of
scottish
education,
as
we've
heard
from
other
members
for
well
over
50
years,
providing
extremely
valuable
learning
experiences
for
our
children
and
young
people.
A
residential
learning
experience
provides
opportunities
and
benefits
that
simply
cannot
be
achieved
in
any
other
educational
context
or
setting,
and
of
course
they
can
be
life-changing.
D
It
is
a
disappointment
that
we
have
to
be
here
today
with
the
backdrop
of
wider
job
job
losses
and
rising
inequality,
to
learn
that
the
staff
of
outdoor
residential
centers
will
be
under
threat
of
redundancy
by
mid-2021,
and
the
50
of
centers
will
be
closed
permanently
if
they
are
not
with
if
they
are
without
urgent
support.
The
scottish
government
issued
guidance
that
no
school
residential
trips
can
take
place
with
no
residential
overnight
trips
allowed.
The
main
income
stream
has
been
cut
off
from
most
centres.
D
Outdoor
centres
have
to
be
closed
until
march
2020,
with
little
or
no
income.
There
are
no
plans
to
review
this,
as
I
understand
until
january,
leaving
the
sector
perilously
underfunded.
In
a
normal
year,
105
000
children
in
scotland
get
the
chance
to
experience
a
residential
trip
through
school.
It
is
often
said
in
this
parliament
that
we
want
scotland
to
be
the
best
place
to
grow
up.
The
poverty-related
attainment
gap
will
be
increased
through
the
lockdown
period,
and
outdoor
education
should
be
a
vital
tool
in
supporting
young
people
back
into
education.
D
As
a
former
teacher,
I've
accompanied
pupils
on
so
many
trips.
I'm
clear
that
these
should
form
part
of
every
pupil's
educational
experience.
Children
from
both
rural
and
urban
areas
can
benefit
greatly
for
many
children.
It's
the
first
opportunity
to
experience,
staying
away
from
home,
a
scary
prospect,
but
often
by
the
end
of
the
week,
as
we've
heard
from
others,
they
come
back
reinforced
and
reinvigorated
with
confidence
for
some
from
urban
areas.
It's
the
only
opportunity
to
visit
the
countryside.
D
Outdoor
centers,
such
as
whitehorse
park
in
the
south
scotland,
which
I
visited
in
2014,
provides
children
with
the
appreciation
of
the
world
around
them.
They
learn
skills
that
can
be
gained
from
natural
world,
and
I
also
want
to
highlight
the
precious
opportunity
for
challenged
groups
for
several
years.
I
joined
the
young
carers
festival
at
broome
lee
near
west
linton,
where
young
carers
were
able
to
chill
and
share
experiences
with
each
other
while
having
a
lot
of
fun,
even
creating
their
own
radio
station.
D
D
As
scotland
gets
to
grips
with
the
global
pandemic,
we
must
be
sure
that
children
do
not
face
this
crisis
and
risk
the
loss
of
their
future
outdoor
education
and
that
the
scottish
government
steps
in
to
provide
financial
support
through
the
winter
for
the
outdoor
education
sector
in
scotland.
Thank
you.
L
Thank
you,
hey.
Thank
you
for
saying
often.
Can
I
thank
liz
smith
for
bringing
this
a
motion
to
debate,
and
I
say
they
would
say:
hey,
there's
very
little
that
I
disagree
with
with
what
smith
is
saying
and
also
the
consensual,
a
non-party
political
manner
in
which
he's
approached
this
debate
today.
I
think
it's
a
very
a
very,
very
important
one
in
the
law.
These
are
challenging
times
for
everyone,
and
it's
no
surprise
that
residential
outdoor
centers
are
struggling.
L
That
would
be
a
really
good
thing.
I
also
want
to
thank
the
the
briefings
I
got
from
the
scouts
and
also
a
chat
with
callum
hall,
as
well
as
being
a
director
on
the
scout.
Sport
he's
also
a
constituent
of
mine.
I
think
it
was
good
to
hear
from
him
make
it
a
clear,
the
dire
situation
that
the
scouts
and
other
outdoor
residential
centres
find
themselves
in
and
to
be
able
to
explain
that
and
just
and
just
a
bit
about
where
they,
where
they
are.
So.
L
You
know
young
people
going
to
residential
gatherings
just
now,
particularly
in
light
of
the
restrictions
that
have
been
made
today,
but
perhaps
there's
maybe
other
support,
that's
required
to
ensure
that
they
are
there.
As
I
said
earlier,
when
we
come
out
the
other
side
and
like
other
members,
I've
said
beside
northern
a
big
supporter
of
outdoor,
a
residential
education
from
my
own
childhood,
I
was
in
the
boys
brigade
and
had
some
great
experience
and
going
to
all
the
the
bbs.
L
Never
you
know
owned
any
of
the
centers
they
they
would
sometimes
hire
them
out
and
even
coverage
to
linux.
Only
I
think
17
miles,
but
I
remember
one
of
the
first
ones
was
to
announce.
It
seemed
like
such
a
big
deal.
It
was
amazing,
you
know,
but
I
was
lucky
enough
to
get
those
experiences
and
then
also
yeah
we're
a
family.
We
went
camping
and
stuff
as
well,
but
I
know
that
a
lot
a
lot
of
young
people,
and
particularly
maybe
in
deprived
areas,
don't
get
those
experiences.
L
So
it's
important
that
we
we
keep
those
opportunities
there
and
I
wanted
to
speak
a
wee
bit
as
well
about
my
time
as
a
social
worker
and
particularly
in
justice,
social
work,
nothing
impact.
Today,
kids
and
young
people
more,
I
felt
than
when
they
were
accepted
on
outdoor
programs.
They
outward
trust,
outbound
trust,
for
example,
absolutely
fantastic.
You
know
young
men,
particularly
young
men,
particularly
getting
involved
and
offending
perhaps
a
sort
of
low
level,
offending
type
behavior
go.
You
know
they
do
the
work.
L
The
preparatory
work
to
take
away
in
some
of
these
trips
and
and
it
can
really
be
life-changing-
and
I
think
you
know,
as
a
social
worker
involved
in
the
casework
of
these
things,
it
was
always
a
real
win
for
you.
If
you
managed
to
get.
You
know
a
successful
application
for
a
kid
to
go
in
one
of
these,
because
you
knew
the
the
impact
that
it
could
have.
So
again,
that's
that's.
L
You
know
just
another
way
in
which
these
resources
are
so
valuable.
Besides
I'll
just
finish
by
quickly
mentioning
cool
bowie
am,
as
you
would
expect,
is
a
a
north
lanarkshire.
A
msp
could
be
benefited
every
kid
in
north
lancashire
for
a
long
time
and
obviously,
along
with
thousands
of
other
people.
I
was
bitterly
disappointed
in
the
decision
recently
to
close
it.
The
decision
was
taken
before
the
pandemic
and
I'd
hoped
that
that
the
pandemic,
the
early
stages
of
pandemic,
might
have
changed
the
council's
mind.
L
But,
alas,
I
think
that
the
the
decision
had
been
made
and
we
were
now
on
a
path,
even
despite
myself,
writing
to
john's
when
they
were
on
a
path
where
you
know
that
of
no
return,
which
is
a
real
shame.
The
council
have
said
they'll
set
up
something
locally
at
strathclyde
park,
so
you
know
obviously
as
a
local
representative
I'll
hold
them
to
that.
L
But
I
do
want
to
pay
tribute
to
my
colleague,
counselor
kristen
larson,
who
has
fought
this
and
just
to
say:
md
is
watching
it
out
there
that
the
cool
bowie
building
is
still
open
to
community
interests
and
bids
at
this
point
in
time
and
things
a
certain
amount
of
periods.
So
I
really
hope
that
something
would
come
up
in
in
that
and
goes
well.
But
I
can
see
you
asking
me
is
the
opposite
enough
to
know
I'll
close
it
thanks
very
much.
A
M
M
M
It
should
be
added
and
in
an
environment
that
cannot
be
replicated
in
a
classroom,
and
that,
of
course,
is
the
point
affording
our
pupils
as
many
learning
opportunities
as
possible,
including
that
experiential
learning
and
then
we
are
all
we
all
learn
and
inspired
in
different
ways.
Some
some
can
do
that
from
a
book
and
some
by
listening
to
others,
but
without
doubt
the
best
way
to
learn
is
by
experience.
M
The
current
pandemic
is
understandably
sucking
the
oxygen
out
of
the
room,
but
it's
difficult
to
consider
anything
other
than
what
the
next
restrictions
may
be
or
how
we
can
remain
as
safe
as
possible
covered
in
all.
We
must
recognize
there
will
be
a
time
after
covered
and
in
all
the
turmoil
that
we're
currently
working
through.
M
In
fact,
I
would
go
so
far
as
to
say
that
looking
forward
to
a
residential
outdoor
course
could
go
a
long
way
to
tackle
the
anxiety
that
pupils
would
be
feeling
at
the
moment-
and
I
know
it
was
a
huge
disappointment
that
my
to
my
youngest
and
her
classmates
when
they
had
to
cancel
their
p7
trip
to
lockerbie
before
the
summer
holidays.
That
is
an
experience
they
will
now
never
had,
and
my
oldest,
my
oldest,
had
a
hugely
rewarding
experiences
by
going
to
work
in
camp
america
and
teaching
americans
how
to
horse
ride.
Now.
M
N
Thank
you,
president
officer,
and
can
I
also
echo
the
thanks
to
liz
smith
for
bringing
this
incredibly
important
issue
to
the
chamber.
President
officer,
the
announcement
today
that
the
eason
of
lockdown
has
in
many
ways
gone
into
reverse,
is
a
sobering
reminder
that
covert
19
hasn't
gone
away,
talk
of
radications
being
replaced
by
talk
of
suppressing
the
virus
to
the
lowest
possible
level
and
keeping
it
there.
N
So
I
get
the
fact
there
needs
to
be
restrictions
on
our
everyday
lives,
and
I
get
the
fact
that
many
of
those
restrictions
will
be
with
us
for
some
time
to
come.
Much
is
said
about
those
restrictions
being
based
on
the
science,
and
I
don't
dispute
that
the
first
minister
and
others
will
be
conscious
of
the
scientific
advice
they
receive
when
it
comes
to
the
incredibly
difficult
choices
they
have
to
make.
But
ultimately
we
know
that
every
decision
is
a
political
one.
N
As
the
number
of
cases
of
coven
19
initially
began
to
fall,
the
government
had
an
element
of
headroom
and
ministers
were
able
to
make
decisions
on
which
areas
to
prioritize
when
it
came
to
easing
that
lockdown.
There's
no
list
of
the
perfect
order
that
eason
should
be
carried
out
in,
but
there
is
a
list
of
choices
when
it
comes
to
outdoor
education,
providing
officer.
I
do
genuinely
have
difficult
understanding
the
choices
the
government
continue
to
make.
N
I
could
describe
exactly
what
those
benefits
to
those
children
are,
but
I'm
not
going
to
I'm
going
to
let
them
do
the
talking
people
who's
at
belmont
primary
school
now
recently
wrote
to
the
deputy
first
minister
to
tell
him
just
what
abernathy
barcable
outdoor
center
located
in
the
beautiful
secluded
hills
near
castle
douglas
and
kirkubri
means
to
them
emma
from
primary
seven
said,
I
built
up
my
confidence
and
overcame
challenges
while
staying
away
from
my
parents,
I'm
shy.
I
find
it
hard
to
make
friends
but
staying
in
a
room
with
different
girls.
N
I
don't
know
so
well
boosted
my
confidence
and
helped
me
to
make
new
friends.
Another
letter
declan
said
I
had
the
best
experience
of
my
life
at
barcable.
My
memories
will
last
forever
going
to
the
outdoor
center.
Helped
me
with
so
many
new
skills,
also
good
for
your
mental
health
because
of
all
the
fresh
air
and
freedom
you
get
from
being
outside.
N
So
if
the
government
have
made
a
choice,
no
doubt
because
they
believe
it's
the
right
choice
to
make
when
it
comes
to
their
priorities
for
ease
and
lockdown
and
providing
that
residential
experience
does
not
fit
with
those
priorities,
they
do
need
to
deal
with
the
impact
of
those
choices,
because
if
you
allow
the
sector
to
collapse,
you
will
not
just
be
denying
today's
pupils
from
belmont
primary
are
the
benefits
of
outdoor
education.
You'll?
O
The
pandemic
has
led
more
of
us
to
get
out
into
the
outdoors,
but
it's
also
highlighted
how
vital
it
is
that
we
ensure
that
everyone
knows
how
to
behave,
how
to
be
when
we're
in
those
forests,
those
mountains,
beaches,
seas
and
waterways
in
a
way
that's
safe
and
sustainable
and
outdoor
education
plays
such
an
important
role
in
this
scotland
was
an
early
pioneer
of
outdoor
education.
It
was
one
of
the
first
countries
in
the
world
to
formalize
it
as
part
of
children's
learning,
and
today
every
year
some
105
000
young
people
and
children.
O
They
go
on
outdoor
residential
trips.
They
go
on
day
outings
and
edinburgh
council's
three
outdoor
centers
ben
moore
outdoor
center
near
dunoon
lagonlea
near
avemore.
I
should
say
I'm
a
friend
of
flagonleer
and
the
bangham
centre
right
here
in
edinburgh
provide
outstanding
access
to
walking
mountain
biking,
water
sports
and
other
activities,
while
the
bridget
hub
on
the
canal
at
the
colders
and
the
west
of
this
city.
It's
not
a
residential
center,
but
it
provides
canoeing
and
kayaking
to
school
groups
and
people
of
all
ages.
Who
might
otherwise
not
have
such
an
experience.
O
O
So
outdoor
learning,
it
should
be
much
more
than
a
one-off
residential.
The
scouts
are
right
to
point
that
out
in
their
briefing
and
who
would
disagree
that
it's
a
hugely
under-used
resource
school
residential
weeks
are
a
highlight
of
our
education
system.
For
some
young
people,
often
those
on
low
incomes,
this
may
be
a
journey
to
another
world
where
they
discover
strengths.
They
never
knew
they
had
where
they,
where
they're
challenged
in
ways
that
build
resilience.
O
Now
we
know
that
establishing
and
running
outdoor
centers
is
a
complex
operation.
It
requires
investment
and
if
we
lose
some
centers,
some,
I
am
afraid
will
be
gone
forever,
and
so
I
joined
colleagues
calling
on
the
scottish
government
to
do
whatever
it
can
to
provide
financial
and
any
other
necessary
support
to
our
fantastic
outdoor
centres,
and
I
know
that
the
government
appreciates
input
on
where
this
cache
might
come
from.
Well.
O
Just
a
few
weeks
ago,
my
colleague,
andy
whiteman's
research
revealed
that
nine
out
of
ten
of
scotland's
shooting
properties,
including
some
owned
by
billionaires,
receive
non-domestic
rates,
relief
worth
ten
and
a
half
million
pounds.
So
I
would
suggest,
minister,
that
if
we
can
afford
that,
there's
money
to
support
outdoor
centres
to
get
our
young
people
cycling,
kayaking,
hill,
walking
and
much
more
and
while
of
course,
keeping
our
children,
young
people
and
their
teachers
safe.
O
I'm
beginning
to
wind
up
presidio
officer,
scotland
has
a
long
and
proud
history
of
supporting
children,
young
people's
access
to
the
great
outdoors.
We
need
to
build
on
that,
not
abandon
it.
I
would
ask
colleagues
across
the
party
if
they
might
be
interested
in
considering
forming
an
informal
cross-party
working
group
to
ensure
that
we
take
forward
the
work
that
has
began
this
evening.
As
a
result
of
liz
smith's
debate
to
close
presiding
officer,
I
pledge
the
full
support
of
the
scottish
greens
to
the
saviour
outdoor
centre
campaign.
Thank
you.
A
P
Outdoor
education
experiences
do
make
an
absolutely
vital
contribution
towards
a
rich
and
impactful
education
for
our
young
people,
and
I
was
listening
closely
to
many
of
the
points
that
members
were
making
and
maurice
correa.
I
think
summed
up
very
well
many
of
the
skills
that
people
can
acquire
from
participating
in
residential
courses.
P
He
spoke
about
the
social
communication
skills
and,
of
course
it
helps
the
self-confidence
and
self-esteem
of
our
young
people
as
well,
and
I
listened
closely
to
his
story
about
his
visit
to
my
constituency
and
murray,
and
I
will
forgive
him
for
discarding
a
cigarette
butt
out
of
the
train
at
elgin
railway
station.
I'm
sure
it's
bad
degraded
over
the
last
50
years
or
so,
since
he
was
there.
P
So
I
think
we
all
agree
and
the
many
many
benefits
of
outdoor
education
and,
like
bruce
crawford,
my
own
children
have
taken
part
in
residential
courses,
all
necresh
in
this
case
navi
moore
and
I
saw
the
benefits
they
gained
from
their
experience
of
that
outdoor
education
and
I've
got
my
own
personal
experience.
When
I
was
18
and
secured
my
first
full-time
job.
B
Liz
smith,
I'm
extremely
grateful
to
the
minister
of
giving
way,
and
I
couldn't
agree
with
him
more
and
you're,
echoing
exactly
what
every
member
has
said.
Given
the
cross-party
agreement
on
this
is
the
minister
minded
to
accept
the
suggestion
that
was
made
by
alison
johnson
to
have
an
urgent
working
group
to
see
if
we
can
address
this
problem.
Richard.
P
But
there
is
no
doubt
that
outdoor
centres
do
help
to
support
learners,
health
and
well-being
as
well
as
their
attainment,
and
they
do
provide
learners
with
these
valuable
opportunities
to
spend
time
outdoors
and
be
physically
active
at
the
same
time.
So
that's
why
the
scottish
government
has
been
supporting
the
work
of
the
scottish
advisory
panel
for
outdoor
education
over
a
number
of
years.
P
P
Third
sector
organizations
that
run
outdoor
education
were
able
to
apply
for
support
through
our
25
million
pound
third
sector
resilience
funds.
We
alerted
outdoor
education
centres
through
the
up
to
five
million
pounds
available
and
fully
flexible
zero
percent
interest
loans,
starting
at
fifty
thousand
pounds
from
social
investment.
P
I
don't
need
to
tell
anyone
in
this
chamber,
as
bruce
crawford
referred
to
about
the
very
significant
pressures
on
the
scottish
budgets
at
the
current
time,
unprecedented
challenges
that
we're
facing
there
are
huge
demands
in
the
public
purse.
At
the
moment.
I
know
my
own
inbox
has
had
three
different
sectors
over
the
last
24
hours
or
40
hours,
looking
for
support
packages
as
well,
and
we
receive
representations
on
a
very
regular
basis
given
what
people
are
going
through
and
what
organizations
are
going
through
at
the
moment
due
to
the
covert
19
crisis.
E
P
As
members
are
aware,
there's
a
number
of
different
models
out
there
in
terms
of
how
the
outdoor
centers
are
operating.
Some
are
local
authorities,
some
are
third
sector,
some
are
private
and
so
on
and
so
forth,
and
we
don't
have
the
influence.
Perhaps
the
member
thinks
we
have
in
terms
of
which
institutions
close
or
not.
However,
I've
not
seen
the
children's
commissioner's
communication
and
will
certainly
look
at
that
and
take
it
on
board.
P
However,
we
will
continue
to
monitor
the
situation
very
very
closely.
I
think
a
point
of
an
area
of
policy
where
we
can
take
further
action
is
the
apparent
inconsistency
and
application
of
the
current
guidelines
and
some
very
good
practice
in
some
areas,
which
could
or
should
be
shared
more
widely
amongst
local
authorities
and
others.
P
P
We
are
listening
very
very
closely
to
the
points
made
today
in
this
debate.
We
are
listening
very
very
closely
to
the
outdoor
education
centers
in
scotland.
I
pay
tribute
to
all
their
efforts
all
their
resilience
at
the
current
very
difficult
times,
and
the
support
they're
giving
to
our
young
people
and
their
professional
commitment
to
and
dedication
to
outdoor
education.
It's
an
important
part
of
scotland's
education
landscape,
as
highlighted
by
many
members.
P
We
will
of
course,
look
in
detail
at
different
funding
mechanisms
that
are
available
at
national
and
local
level
and
we'll
explore
how
these
funding
streams
can
be
deployed
more
effectively.
This
has
been
an
important
opportunity
to
highlight
the
role
that
outdoor
centers
do
play
in
scotland
and
we
must
recognize
the
urgent
challenges
they
do
face
at
the
present
time
and
explore
what
more
can
be
done.