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From YouTube: Committee on the Scottish Government Handling of Harassment Complaints - 8 February 2021
Description
Committee on the Scottish Government Handling of Harassment Complaints
A
The
more
we
get
into
specifics
of
evidence
that
is
tying
people
cases,
the
more
we
run
the
risk
of
identifying
those
who
make
complaints.
The
more
we
ask
about
specific
matters
covered
in
the
trial,
including
events
explored
in
the
trial.
The
more
we
run,
the
risk
of
re-running
that
trial
in
questions
reference
to
specific
dates
and
individuals
should
be
avoided,
and
questions
should
be
phrased
in
general
terms,
where
possible,
to
avoid
the
risk
of
jigsaw
identification
and
of
complainants.
A
B
B
Thank
you,
convener
and,
as
you
know,
I've
provided
written
evidence
now
on
four
occasions
in
the
past
six
months.
Two
months
ago,
exactly
I
answered
questions
for
an
hour
and
a
half
and
gave
comprehensive
answers
to
all
the
questions
asked
of
me
since
being
here
on
the
8th
of
december,
the
committee
sought
written
clarification
on
some
points
of
detail
which
I
provided
on
january
13th.
B
It
remains
the
case
that
the
asmp
holds
no
information
relevant
to
the
complaints
made
under
the
scottish
government
procedure.
Neither
I
nor
the
snp
was
involved
in
any
aspect
of
the
committee's
remit.
It
is
therefore
not
entirely
clear
to
me
what
more
I
can
add
today.
However,
I
am
happy
to
help
if
I
can
and
will
answer
any
questions.
As
far
as
I'm
able
to
thank
you.
C
Thank
you
convener.
Good
morning,
mr
morrow,
when
you
last
appeared
before
the
committee,
you
confirmed
you've
been
the
snp
chief
executive
officer
for
the
last
20
years.
The
committee
has
had
evidence
that
the
complaints
made
against
alexander
during
the
development
of
the
clint's
handling
procedure
led
to
the
former
first
minister,
being
included
in
that
finalized
procedure
in
your
submission
of
2nd
of
october
use
state.
Neither
I
nor
my
staff
were
involved
in
the
development
of
the
scottish
government
procedure
or
the
handling
of
the
complaints
made
andre.
C
B
C
C
The
official
report
lists
the
texts
in
full,
but
they
include
a
reference
to
being
a
good
time
to
be
press,
rising
police
and
says
the
more
fronts
he
has
to
fight
on
the
better.
Your
explanation
for
the
text
referred
to
in
your
evidence
and
by
the
fourth
minister
in
parliament,
was
that
the
messages
suggest
how
upset
you
were
at
the
time
given
you've
been
working
for
the
former
first
minister
for
30
years.
C
The
credibility
of
this
explanation
is
in
question,
especially
given
that
you're
referred
to
as
chief
executive
officer
of
the
snp
three
times
in
material
listed
48
to
4f,
which
a
high
court
ruling
of
the
19th
of
january
2021
deemed
not
to
be
relevant
to
an
alleged
breach
of
section
11
of
the
contempt
of
court
act.
1981.
C
C
A
communication
from
another
snp
official
to
use
chief
executive,
in
which
a
view
was
expressed
as
to
the
progress
of
the
case
against
mr
simond
and
which-
and
this
chief
officer
of
snp
expressed
expressed
a
view
that
if
she
was
told
what
evidence
was
needed,
she
would
be
able
to
obtain
it
and
text
between
use.
The
chief
executive
officer
and
another
smp
officer
in
which
certain
views
were
expressed.
B
I
you
know,
I
think
I
think,
you're
getting
into
sort
of
selective,
quoting
of
text
messages
and
discussion
of
leaks
and
false
allegations.
I'm
not
you
know
I've
not
seen
the
material
that
you're
referring
to.
I
think
you're.
Are
you
drifting
into
messages
between
myself
and
a
member
of
staff,
which
you
know
whatever.
C
Writing-
and
it
would
be
rather
good
if
we
could
get
an
answer
for
him,
and
now
these
were
all
referred
to
the
official
report
convener.
So
I
see
no
reason
why
and
mr
morrow
shouldn't
be
asked
to
confirm
or
deny
the
existence
of
these
of
this
material
listed
in
this
high
court
hearing
on
the
19th
of
january.
A
I
think
mr
murrell
has
said
that
he's
a
bit
confused
about
what's
being
discussed
and
not
quite
sure,
so
I
think
it's
only
fair
under
the
terms
of
how
we
operate
to
allow
the
witness
to
look
at
this
and
come
back
to
us.
If
the
committee
makes
the
decision
that
this
is
within
remit,
we
shall
write
to
mr
mural
about
that.
A
C
B
Well,
hey!
Thank
you.
We
are
sorry,
yes,
mr
model.
Well,
you
know
you
know
there
was
no
conspiracy.
I
think
you
know
you
need
to
be
careful.
Put
your
selective,
quoting
of
messages
on
in
social
media
leaks
and
false
allegations.
I
mean,
I
think
the
committee
last
week
looked
at
material
and
decided
itself
that
the
evidence
that
was
looking
at
was
not
relevant
to
the
committee's
inquiry,
and
you
know
I
think,
on
the
two
occasions
that
the
complainers
voices
have
been
heard
in
the
committee
by
them
writing
to
the
committee.
B
They
have
expressed
concern
about
some
of
the
comments
from
committee
members
about
these
selective
messages,
and
you
know,
suggestions
that
are
made
on
social
media
about
false
allegations.
So
you
know,
I
think
we
need
to
be
very
careful
about
the
privacy
of
the
complainers
here,
and
you
know
I
mean
they
all
came
forward
in
on
the
basis
of
that.
Their
rights
would
be
protected,
their
privacy
would
be
protected
and
that
the
judicial
system
would
would
stand
by
them
and
make
sure
that
they
were
able
to
maintain
anonymity.
B
A
D
Thank
you
very
much
convina
good
morning,
mr
mural.
Thank
you
for
returning
to
see
us
I'd
like
to
ask
I'd
like
to
ask.
If
I
may
specifically
about
the
meetings
or
the
meeting
of
the
second
of
april,
I
I've
got
a
range
of
questions,
they're,
quite
quick
fire,
so
it's
really
quite
simple,
yes
or
no
initially,
there
might
be
for
you
to
expand,
and
then
I
might
like
you
to
bring
me
back
in
the
convener
later
on.
D
If
I
may,
but
I'll
start
with
this,
though,
you
were
clear
to
us
that,
even
though
you
are
the
chief
executive
of
the
scottish
national
party,
your
wife,
nicholas
sturgeon,
is
the
leader
of
the
snp
and
first
minister
of
scotland,
that
she
does
not
ever
discuss
government
business
with
you.
That
is
correct,
isn't
it
it
is
yes,
it's
unremarkable,
and
presumably
relatively
normal,
for
you,
however,
as
when
you're
at
home,
to
discuss
party
as
opposed
to
government
business
when
you're
at
home.
D
B
It's
it's
not
as
common
as
you're
suggesting
I
mean
you
know
that
we're
busy.
You
know,
as
I
think
I
explained
last
time.
The
amount
of
time
that
we
have
together
is
is
very
limited.
So
you
know
if
we,
if
we
spend
the
day
as
I
spend
the
small
parts
of
the
evening
or
the
early
parts
of
the
morning
discussing
our
work
then-
and
you
know
there
isn't
much
space
left.
So
we
don't
rerun
things.
D
D
I'm
just
talking
about
informal
chat
anyway
I'll
move
on
when
you
gave
evidence
to
us
on
the
8th
of
december,
you
told
me
that
the
first
indication
you'd
you
and
the
first
minister
had
of
the
sky
news
story
about
mr
simon's
alleged
conduct
to
the
airport
was
from
an
email
from
one
of
the
smp's
parliamentary
press
officers.
Am
I
right
in
thinking
that
this
guy
news
story
was
from
your
point
of
view,
a
party
business?
It
was
something
relevant
to
you.
Your
work.
D
D
D
Actually,
business,
no
that's
helpful,
but
you
told
the
committee
in
your
third
written
piece
of
evidence.
That's
on
the
evening
of
sunday
april,
1st
in
2018,
the
first
minister
told
you
that
mr
simon
would
be
visiting
your
home
and
that
you
quote
had
the
sense
that
something
serious
was
being
discussed.
Nicola
told
me
she
couldn't
discuss
the
details,
the
nation.
This
job
means
that
when
she
tells
me
she
can't
just
discuss
something,
I
don't
press
it.
That's
still
your
position.
Yes,.
B
D
Yeah,
I
should
have
been
clearer
in
my
questioning
but
you're
quite
right.
That
was
a
statement
after
the
fight
and
again
when
we
gave
evidence
on
8th
december.
I
asked
you
a
question
about
whether,
when
she
spoke
to
you,
the
first
minister
might
have
given
you
an
idea
of
what
was
said
at
the
meeting,
and
I
want
to
ask
you
about
an
aspect
of
your
answer.
D
The
official
report
records
the
first
part
of
your
answer,
as
I
will
try
to
set
out
what
happened,
given
that
other
individuals
were
there,
what
was
triggered
was
that
the
sky
needs
inquiry
was
perhaps
coming.
She
said
that
it
was
not
and
that
she
could
not
discuss
what
the
meeting
was
about.
That
is
the
point
from
which
I
did
not
prove
any
further.
D
B
D
B
Well,
I
think,
as
we
covered
back
two
months
ago
as
well
of
you
know,
nicola
will
be
here
next
week
and
you
know
the
only
the
only
view
that
you
know
really
counts
here
is
her
view.
It's
it's
not
for
me
to
speculate
or
determine
the
basis
of
nature
of
things.
I
wasn't
involved
in
so,
and
you
know
she'll
be
here
next
week
and
you
can
ask
her
what
she
thought
was
the
physician
going
into
the
meeting.
D
I
understand
and-
and
I
fully
accept
that
my
final
question
for
now
convener,
if
I
may-
and
this
is
what
my
these
questions
have
all
been
leading
up
to,
because
this
is
the
thing
that
really
doesn't
sit
well
with
me
in
her
written
evidence
to
the
committee.
Nicolas
surgeon
said
that,
prior
to
the
meeting
of
the
second
debate,
he
thought-
and
I
quote
that
mr
simons
may
be
about
to
resign
from
the
snp
as
leader
of
the
party.
D
I
considered
it
important
that
I
knew
if
this
was
in
fact
the
case
in
order
that
I
could
prepare
the
party
to
deal
with
what
would
have
been
a
significant
issue
and
that
that
was
her
view
before
the
second
of
april.
Mr
martin,
you
are
chief
executive
of
the
asset.
Surely
nobody
prepares
your
party
for
anything
that
big
without
your
involvement,
particularly
if
they
share
a
house
with
you
today.
B
Well
nicola
is
the
leader
of
the
party,
and
what
she
tells
me
is
is
really
a
matter
for
her.
I
mean
it's.
You
know
we
went
through
this
last
time
on
the
8th
of
december,
where
you
you
were
referring
to
how
the
liberal
democrats,
you
know,
manage
their
media
operation,
I
mean
you
know,
as
I
think
I
said
at
the
time.
It's
you
know.
I
think,
if
you're
dealing
with
you
deal
with
things,
certainly
in
government,
you
deal
with
things
when
they
they
they
arise.
B
D
It
works
well,
thank
you
for
that.
But
again
I
I
really
struggle
with
this,
because,
yes,
that's
the
case
that
you
know
in
the
cut
and
thrust
of
a
life
in
politics
and
passing
on
ships
in
the
night
is
you
must
often
do
with
the
freshman
and
not
wanting
to
talk
about
politics
all
the
time.
I
can
understand
that
you
don't.
You
know
readily
embrace
the
topic
of
party
business,
but
this
isn't
like
run-of-the-mill
party
business.
D
This
is
potentially
one
of
the
biggest
blows
before
your
party
in
its
history
that
one
of
its
most
celebrated
leaders,
one
of
its
most
successful
leaders,
was
on
the
point
of
resigning
and
with
it
potentially
taking
a
huge
faction
of
members
with
him
that
this
was,
if
that
was
what
nicholas
sergeant
attests,
was
her
principal
concern
for
what
that
meeting
was
going
to
be
about.
I
just
don't
find
it
credible
that
she
wouldn't
have
discussed
that
with
you
as
chief
executive,
even
just
to
take
your
mind
on
it
to
take
advice.
B
But
you
know
again
at
that
point:
nicola
hadn't
talked
to
alex,
so
she
didn't
talk
to
him
until
that
day.
So
what
he
was
planning
to
say
to
her.
You
know
he
knew
and
she
you
know,
as
she
set
out
in
our
evidence,
thought
that
he
may
be
about
to
to
resign
from
the
party.
But
you
know
until
actually
that
conversation
took
place.
Then
you
just
don't
know
what
the
situation
is.
D
But
husbands
and
share
things
partly
share
things
I
mean
I
would
you
know
if
this
was
if
the
law
was
reserved
worse,
it
was
something
that
big
in
my
party.
I
would
be
feeling
a
knock
in
the
bit
of
my
stomach
about
this
I'd
be
wanting
to
speak
to
my
wife,
about
the
anxiety
I
had
thinking.
Oh,
my
goodness,
there
is
an
iceberg
coming
for
our
party
and
we
need
to.
We
need
to
game
out
what
we're
going
to
do.
I
just
I'm
sorry,
mr
morrow,
just.
B
Well,
I
mean,
I
think,
well,
I
think,
you're
coming
to
it
from
a
you
know,
position
of
you
know
well
anyway,
but
by
the
way
you
know
I
think
nicola
will
be
here
next
week.
You
can
ask
her
what
she
she
thought
and
what
she
was,
what
she
thought
in
advance
of
the
meeting
and
afterwards
and
what
happened
at
the
meeting.
But
you
know
I
can
just
tell
you
what
I
knew,
and
that
is
that
he
was
coming
to
the
house,
and
that
was
all
I
knew
at
the
time.
So.
A
E
Thank
you
convener
and
good
morning,
mr
morrow
morning,
I
wonder
if
I
can
try
and
just
clarify
some
issues
arising
from
your
previous
evidence
on
the
8th
of
december,
and
maybe
just
to
put
this
in
context.
You'll,
be
aware,
this
committee
is
trying
to
get
to
the
truth
of
some
very
serious
matters
that
relates
to
complaints
made
by
women
in
the
scottish
government,
who
have
been
treated
very
badly
and
still
have
not
had
any
satisfaction
in
relation
to
complaints.
E
You
then
said
in
relation
to
mr
shaman.
I
was
not
really
aware
he
was
coming
to
the
house
on
the
first
occasion
that
is
the
2nd
of
april.
Well
then,
subsequently,
in
that
session,
in
response
to
questions
from
my
colleague
mr
andy
whiteman,
you
said
I
knew
in
advance.
The
meeting
was
going
to
happen.
You
knew
about
it
the
day
before
and
then,
when
mr
whiteman
asked
you
whether
you
were
at
home
on
the
2nd
of
april,
you
said
I
arrived
home
not
long
before
the
meeting
ended
so
you've.
B
I
think,
as
I've
I've
made
clear
at
the
time.
I
I
wasn't
at
the
meeting
and
I
didn't
know
what
the
meeting
was
about.
So
you
know
I
happened
to
arrive
home
just
before
the
meeting
finished
and
you
know
I
came
in
the
door
acknowledged
the
people
that
were
in
one
room
didn't
see,
alec
or
nicole
at
that
point
and
went
upstairs
to
change
by
the
time.
I'd
done
that
you
know
there
was
they
had
left.
B
B
Know
when
you're
giving
evidence
and
you're
being
questioned
in
this
fashion
that
you
know
you,
it
is
difficult
to
go
back
to
the
point
of
what
you
do
when
and
take
it
back.
What
I
know
now
and
as
opposed
to
what
I
knew
back,
then
I
think
what
I
was
trying
to
refer
to
was
the
fact
that
I
didn't
you
know
now
we
know
rock.
You
know,
because
there
are
bits
of
evidence
that
suggests
what
the
meeting
was
about.
We
now
know
this
back,
then
I
didn't
know
any
of
it.
B
So
you
know
I
was
just
trying
to
explain
the
situation
that
that
was
occurring
at
that
point,
which
was
that
you
know
I
didn't
know
what
the
meeting
was
about.
I
didn't
really
know
that
you
know
that
there
was
going
to
be.
I
think
there
were.
There
were
additional
people
here
at
in
the
house
that
I
wasn't
expecting
to
see
and
that's
you
know.
I
think
I
was
referring
to
that
kind
of
situation
where
you
know
I
come
home
and
I
find
I
was
you
know
I
I
had
expected.
B
B
B
E
B
A
E
B
You
know
I
have.
I
have
no
idea
how
long
the
meeting
lasted.
I
wasn't
here,
for
you
know
any
part
of
the
meeting.
I
happened
to
arrive
home
just
as
the
meeting
was
finishing
that
you
know
that's
all
I
can
say
I
mean
that
you
know
it's
not
complicated.
It's
you
know.
I
absolutely
refute
that.
You
know
you
know
what's
being
suggested,
but
you
know
I
just
happened
to
arrive
home
as
the
meeting
was
ending.
E
E
Can
I
ask
you
about
your
understanding
of
the
capacity
in
which
that
meeting
was
held,
because
we
heard
we've
heard
well,
we
haven't
heard,
but
we've
seen
the
written
evidence
from
the
first
minister
that
she
was
clear.
The
meeting
was
not
held
on
government
business.
She
took
no
action
consequent
to
that
meeting.
E
B
I
mean
my
evidence
was
reflecting
you
know
my
impression,
but
the
I
mean
the
it's
not
for
me.
You
know
to
speculate
the
basis
of
the
nature
of
the
meeting.
That's
you
know
for
the
first
minister
and
you
know
she'll
be
here
next
tuesday
and
you
can
ask
her
these
questions.
She
her
decision
on
on
the
nature
of
the
meeting
is,
is,
is
the
only
thing
that
matters
here
so
you
you
should
ask
that
you
know
that
witness
the
question.
B
E
Thank
you,
a
very,
very
simple
question.
Mr
mural
has
said
several
times
that
it's
not
for
him
to
speculate
on
the
nature
of
that
meeting,
but
he
didn't
just
speculate.
He
was
definitive
in
response
to
a
question
from
me
on
the
8th
of
december.
I
asked
about
the
meeting.
He
said
it
was
a
scottish
government
matter,
so
he
has
already
set
out
a
view
on
this.
All
I'm
asking
is:
does
he
stand
by
the
view
he
sent
out
to
us
under
oath
on
the
8th
of
december.
B
E
F
F
F
First,
let
her
say
that
the
permanent
secretary's
investigation,
which
had
held
sexual
harassment
allegations
against
him,
was
not
conducted
by
the
party
and
secondly,
because
what
limited
information
that
the
first
minister
had
about
the
complainant
about
the
complaint,
rather
against
alex
salmond
and
could
not
be
shared
with
the
party
for
legal
reasons.
Have
I
got
that
correct
before
I
move
on.
F
B
F
Well,
the
other
issue
related
to
that
in
that
case
is,
I
am
assuming
that
there
was
a
wish
to
reassure
the
wider
membership
of
the
party
that
I
respected.
The
situation
with
mr
sam
and
the
party
was
going
to
take
action
to
stand
up
for
those
who
had
experienced
sexual
harassment.
Was
there
a
sense
among
party
leaders
that
there
was
a
need
to
provide
members
more
generally
with
reassurance
on
that
way?
The
issue.
B
B
You
know,
does
have
a
massive
impact
on
complainers,
not
just
in
the
specific
case,
but
in
a
wider
sense
in
the
community
I
mean
I
think
I
had
noticed
that
you
know
one
of
the
helplines
had
opened
and
up
last
tuesday
evening.
I
think
it
was
because
in
any
discussion
about
sexual
harassment
in
the
public
sphere
does
spark
concerns
and
distress
for
women
who
have
experienced
this
in
all
sorts
of
different
aspects
of
of
work,
life,
personal
life.
B
And
so
you
know
there
was
a
wider
sense
and
we
had
an
awareness
within
the
party
that-
and
you
know,
because
of
the
public
profile
of
of
of
that
and
a
complaint
at
that
time-
that
it
would.
It
would
spark
a
wider
concern
about
historic,
sexual
harassment
and,
and
you
know,
I
think
it
was
felt
that
we
needed
to
make
sure
that
you
know
it
was
seen
that
the
snp
had
ways
in
which
people
could
share
that
information
or
could
seek
help
and
if
they
were
distressed.
B
F
Well,
you
mentioned
that
there
was
a
public
conversation
about
these
issues
that,
by
this
point,
the
government
and
the
parliament
were
moving
to
take
the
issues
of
sexual
harassment
seriously.
Did
you
feel
at
that
point,
or
was
the
purpose
behind
the
letter,
the
need
to
indicate
that
the
party
was?
F
B
I
I
don't
think
the
responses
were
to
that.
You
know
I
think,
but
the
good
I
mean
the
government,
because
I
think
the
similar
question
was
asked
of
the
government
and
I
think
the
fact
that
there
was
public
conversation
about
the
complaint
that
had
appeared.
I
think
in
one
of
the
newspapers
about
mr
salmon-
and
you
know
it
sparked
a
number
of
women
to
come
forward
in
the
government
sphere,
but
they
were.
You
know,
I
think.
B
G
Thank
you
very
much
good
morning
to
mr
morrow.
Can
I
take
you
back
to
your
evidence
of
8th
of
december
to
this
committee,
where
I
asked
about
the
existence
of
other
texts
or
whatsapp
messages
concerning
the
allegations
made
about
alex
salmon
and
you
will
recall,
the
committee
saw
two
of
those
messages
between
yourself
and
and
an
officer
of
the
snp
and
at
the
time
you
said
to
me-
and
I
quote
no,
not
that
I
am
aware
of-
is.
G
B
B
As
part
of
that,
I
think
there
was
information
which
said
that
you
know
evidence
submitted,
you
know,
should
fall
within
the
remit
of
the
committee's
inquiries
and
so
roll
forward
to
the
next
letter
from
the
committee,
and
at
that
point
I
think
you
asked
that
I
should
go
and
confer
with
staff
about
whether
there
were
any
relevant
messages,
which
I
did.
I
approached
every
member
of
staff
and
asked
if
they
had
anything
that
was
relevant
to
the
remit
of
the
inquiry
and
the
answer
from
all
the
staff
was
no.
G
Okay,
mr
maher,
let
me
take
you
back
to
your
own
evidence
to
the
committee.
Okay,
where
I'm
saying
to
you,
I
mean
in
relation
to
the
allegations
about
the
former
first
minister
alex
salmond,
and
you
said,
and
what
story,
and
I
then
said:
let
me
go
back.
The
text
messages
that
you
sent,
which
we
have
seen
were
to
your
chief
operating
officer.
G
I
am
asking
whether
there
were
other
text
messages
to
any
other
party
official
on
the
same
subject,
and
you
have
said
no,
not
that
I
am
aware
of
so
it
doesn't
talk
about
relevant
documentation.
Doesn't
talk
about
the
committee's
roommate,
it
is
very
clear
and
you
responded.
No,
are
you
saying
that
your
testimony
then,
is
correct.
B
B
A
B
G
Convina,
I
think
people
watching
will
see
that
mr
merle
is
dancing
on
the
head
of
a
pin.
He
made
no
such
caveats
to
his
evidence
previously,
and
I
think
this
is
becoming
quite
obstructive
to
the
work
of
the
committee.
Can
I
try
again
there
were
messages
between
a
senior
snp
officer
dated
28th
of
january
2019.,
these
concerned,
mr
morrow,
and
this
senior
officer.
G
It
reports
that
an
officer
returned
from
a
meeting
with
the
complainer
and
reports
back,
and
then
you
text
the
senior
officer
to
complain
about
the
other
officer's
attitude,
not
being
forceful
enough
to
achieve
the
objective
of
having
her
make
a
police
statement.
You
were
clearly
angry
with
him.
Do
you
recognize
this?
Mr
morrow?
Did
you
send
that
message
and
how
does
that
sit
with
your
previous
evidence
to
the
committee
that
there
were
no
more
messages.
B
I
I
I
think,
there's
there's
a
danger
in
you
know:
pulling
material
from
social
media
selectively,
quoting
information
leaking
and
false
allegations.
I
mean
you
know
that
is
not
the
context
of
that
message
and
again
we're
drifting
into
the
air
where
you
know
we're
invading
the
privacy
of
someone
who
we
we
know
already.
We've
caused
a
great
amount
of
stress
to
in
the
kind
of
probing
of
messages,
so.
G
G
Indeed,
convener,
as
you
know,
this
is
based
on
previous
evidence
from
mr
morrow,
and
I
won't
test
that
evidence,
so
it
is
based
on
his
own
words
to
this
committee,
and
you
know,
I
don't
think
that
the
interrupting
that
flow,
given
that
he's
already
testified
to
us
before
on
these
issues,
is
necessarily
helpful.
I
wonder
whether
I
could
move
on.
Can
I
take
one
of
your.
A
G
B
Think
that
let
me
just
scan
back
to
I
mean
you're
inquired
the
committee's
you
know
where
they
wrote
to
me
on
the
what
is
it
the
23rd
of
december?
The
question
I
was
asked
was:
when
did
I
first
become
aware
of
potential
complaint
from
london
and
that's
what
I
had
an
awareness
of
that
there
were
complaints
in
or
a
complaint
from
someone
in
london
or
events
in
london.
B
Well,
yeah,
you
know,
I
think,
between
the
period
of
it
becoming
you
know,
between
the
point
of
which
it
became
public
knowledge
that
there
was
complaints
in
the
scottish
government
procedure
against
alex
salmond
all
the
way
through
to
the
point
of
which
he
was
charged
and
appeared
in
court.
There
was
clearly
a
lot
of
speculation.
A
lot
of
information
came
to
the
snp
and
was
circulating
so
clearly
at
some
point
over
that
journey.
I
think
I
I
I
in
my
oral
evidence.
Last
time
we
talked
about
the
fact
that
you
know
some.
G
Can
I
push
you
on
this
point
because,
let
me
say
I've.
I've
went
back
and
checked
my
diary
as
I
promised
to
do.
I've
done
a
newspaper
and
broadcast
search.
This
fact
of
the
crown
prosecution
service
was
not
in
the
public
domain
until
after
mr
salmon's
criminal
trial
had
concluded.
So
can
I
press
you?
How
did
you
know
specifically
about
the
crown
prosecution
service.
B
B
B
A
G
A
G
B
A
H
H
You
also
said
that,
in
order
for
for
any
type
of
change
to
be
made
that
they
would
have
to
go
before
the
snp
conference
can
ask
therefore,
and
whether,
since
your
last
appearance
in
front
of
this
committee,
have
they
actually
have
been
any
discussions
about
the
changes
to
the
rule
book.
Now
that
the
party
has
got
a
new
national
secretary.
B
The
so
I
think
the
the
the
new
national
secretary
is
looking
at
this
area
and
there
were
aspects
of
the
constitutional
changes
that
were
discussed
in
2018
that
haven't
yet
been
implemented,
and
so
I
know
that
that's
under
a
sort
of
active
consideration
that
the
complaints
procedure
will
be
looked
at
and
refreshed.
I
think
you
know
in
fairly
short
order,
but
you
know
the
process
for
that
is.
B
B
H
Okay,
also
as
the
chief
executive
of
an
of
any
organization
which
certainly
has
to
handle
complaints
about
sexual
harassment,
you'll
agree,
I'm
sure
that
it's
crucial
that
complainers
are
at
the
heart
of
any
complaints
procedures
and
also
indeed
inquiries
about
the
complaints
procedures.
Can
you
tell
us
how
you
make
sure
that
this
actually
is
the
case
in
the
scottish
national
party.
B
Well,
you
know
the
it
is
absolutely
vital
that
you
know
complaints
are
treated
confidential,
confidentially
and
and
that
you
know
if
people
want
to
come
forward
with
in
an
enormous
way,
then
then
we
try
and
protect
that
so
and
it's
you
know
it's
basic
standards
of
of
good
operation
within
organization.
So
it's
you
know
it's
it's
imperative
that
you.
You
know
people
have
confidence
in
the
complaint
system
and
that-
and
these
are
advanced
in
in
good
order.
A
F
F
I
know,
but
you
did
say
that
you
you'd
drawn
your
conclusions
about
what
the
meeting
would
be
about,
but
you
didn't
know
for
certain
what
was
that
there
would
be
anything
out
of
the
ordinary
after
the
meeting
concluded
your
view,
you
just
told
this
was
that
serious
matters
may
have
alluded
to
again
that
serious
matters
may
have
been
discussed.
It
wasn't
your
place
to
try
and
find
at
the
meeting's
context.
B
B
You
know
previous
year
about
in
a
complaint
and
at
edinburgh
airport
then-
and
I
just
you
know,
I
thought
they
may
have
something
to
do
with
that.
That's
you
know,
but,
and
that's
kind
of
when
I
approached
nicole
and
said
well,
it
was
about
that
and
she
said
no,
but
that
she
couldn't
talk
about
it,
and
that
was
you
know
that
was
the
you
know
the
sum
total
of
my
knowledge.