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From YouTube: COVID-19 Committee - 20 August 2020
Description
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A
Ruth
maguire
joins
us
as
a
substitute
for
annabelle
ewing.
Aleister
allen
joins
us
as
a
substitute
for
sherlock,
robeson
and
claire
adamson
joins
us
as
a
substitute
for
winning
coffee.
I'd
like
to
welcome
ruth
alistair
and
claire
to
the
meeting
and
we're
also
joined
by
liam
care
as
an
additional
member,
and
I
started
asking
the
substitutes
if
they
would
declare
any
registerable
interests
relevant
to
the
committee's
agreement.
I'll
start
with
ruth
mcguire.
A
A
Thank
you
very
much.
Okay,
welcome
to
the
substantive
business
on
the
agenda
this
morning,
we're
dealing
with
a
number
of
statutory
instruments.
Now,
for
our
first
evidence
session
this
morning,
we're
joined
by
gene
freeman
cabinet
secretary
for
health
and
support.
It
will
give
evidence
on
the
health
protection
of
coronavirus
restrictions,
aberdeen
city
regulations,
2020,
ssi,
2020-234
and
the
cabinet
secretary
is
joined
this
morning
by
officials,
paul
packett
who's,
director
of
the
scottish
government's
outbreak
management
and
luke
mcgrathny
who's,
the
lead
for
transition
constitution
and
rights.
A
C
This
is
high.
The
rate
across
the
rest
of
the
scotland
is
six
per
hundred
thousand,
and
our
testing
and
tracing
is
still
reporting
a
significant
number
of
new
infections
that
are
not
connected
to
the
pubs
and
nightlife
cluster.
That
means
that
we
cannot
be
sure
that
community
transmission
is
not
taking
place.
C
C
For
these
reasons,
it
was
a
judgment
of
ministers
that
we
cannot
immediately
lift
the
restrictions
in
aberdeen
city
to
be
clear.
The
local
incident
management
team
did
not
argue
for
an
immediate
lifting
of
these
restrictions
from
the
19th
of
august.
Neither
did
aberdeen
city.
What
both
wished
for
was
that
non-licensing
premises
could
be
opened
from
this
weekend.
C
For
that
reason,
we've
suggested
a
further
meeting
with
clinicians
counselors
and
officials
on
sunday
to
review
progress,
and,
whilst
I
can't
preempt
that
discussion,
because
we
will
need
to
look
at
the
data
that
is
before
us
at
that
point,
including
the
daily
data.
Up
to
that
point,
I
can
tell
the
committee
that
dependent
on
progress,
the
sort
of
measures
we
expect
to
consider
include
permitting
hospitality
without
the
serving
of
alcohol
from
next
wednesday,
wednesday
and
the
publication
of
a
clear
route
map
for
the
lifting
of
the
remaining
restrictions.
Beyond
that.
C
Of
course,
we
recognize
the
impact
this
has
on
businesses
in
the
area,
but
the
impact
of
an
outbreak
going
out
of
control
in
aberdeen
and
across
the
northeast
would
be
much
more
severe
both
for
business
and
for
public
health.
So
we
are
providing
additional
support
to
business
in
aberdeen
of
a
one
million
pound
package
that
was
announced
yesterday,
tamira.
I
think
we
are
taking
a
measured,
proportionate
and
responsible
approach.
It's
consistent
with
that
being
taken
to
the
suppression
of
the
disease
across
scotland.
C
The
overall
objective
that
government
and
local
council
have
is
the
shared
one,
which
is
to
get
the
restrictions
lifted
as
soon
as
possible,
but
we
must
not
do
anything
that
jeopardizes
the
significant
progress,
hard
won
that
has
been
made
so
far
and
was,
as
with
all
the
decisions
that
we
make
during
this
pandemic.
We
are
informed
by
the
evidence
and
then
we
take
the
necessary
judgments.
Thank
you
very
much.
A
Can
I
just
speak
to
you
and
your
officials
personally
bear
in
mind
there's
a
slight
lag
in
the
broadcasting,
so
just
take
a
breath
before
you
answer
a
question
to
allow
the
broadcasting
to
switch
and
the
mics
on,
and
secondly,
if
you
wish
to
bring
in
any
officials
at
any
point,
I
think
be
helpful
if
you
indicate
that,
verbally,
first
of
all
to
the
broadcasting
team
again,
if
your
officials
can
just
pause
for
a
moment
before
they
speak,
that
will
allow
broadcasting
to
switch
the
mics
on.
So
we
don't
miss
the
first.
A
few.
D
A
Can
I
just
start
off
then
and
ask
you
about
the
issue
you
just
alluded
to,
which
is
the
announcement
yesterday
that
the
restrictions
will
be
ended
for
a
further
period?
There
obviously
has
been
a
lot
of
commentary
around
this.
You
have
seen
some
of
the
reaction
there's
been
locally
has
been
reported
in
the
media,
since
yesterday
concerns
from
the
chamber
of
commerce
and
aberdeen
about
the
extension
in
the
restrictions.
A
C
C
Of
course,
the
imt
is
a
gathering
together
of
more
than
one
area
of
expertise
who
are
on
the
ground
locally
and
therefore
have
a
very
particular
perspective
to
contribute
that
is
really
important,
and
so
looking
at
all
of
that
and
taking
then
the
assessment
from
our
chief
medical
officer,
our
national
clinical
director,
of
what
they
are
seeing
in
terms
of
that
data.
A
judgment
then
has
to
be
made
where
I
think
I
would
gently
take
a
dispute
with
what
you
said.
I
I
don't.
C
I
wouldn't
characterize
the
health
risk
from
this
virus
as
short
term.
I
I
think
the
health
risk
from
kovid
19
is
a
very
serious
indeed
potentially
life-threatening.
We
have
seen
that
and
it
also
produces
long-term
health
impacts,
which
we
are
only
now
learning
about
globally
and
will
continue
to
learn
about.
C
C
A
Okay,
thank
you
secretary
for
that
that
response
is
very
helpful.
You
alluded
to
in
your
opening
statement
the
views
of
the
city
council
in
aberdeen,
and
you
also
reference
the
fact
that
both
they
and
the
local
incident
management
team
were
recommending
a
greater
relaxation
restrictions
than
you've
actually
have
proposed
here.
C
C
Our
view,
given
what
I
have
said
about
the
rape
100
000,
not
only
in
the
cluster
cases,
but
also,
in
the
other
cases
not
related
to
the
cluster.
So
that's
an
area
of
concern.
It's
not
just
the
the
cluster
around
nighttime
hospitality
we're
seeing
it's
also
other
cases
not
directly
linked
back
to
those.
A
E
F
Thank
you
convinced,
good
morning
cabinet
secretary
just
for
clarity,
because
the
convener
is
right.
There's
been
a
lot
of
commentary
in
the
last
couple
of
days
and
certainly
there's
been
local
reaction
from
authorities
and
from
people
living
in
aberdeen
city
and
obviously
the
wider
campaign
area
could
just
ask
cabinet
secretary.
F
Is
there
a
disagreement
between
the
scottish
government
and
the
local
partners?
Incident
management
team
hasn't
been
around
and
if
that's
not
the
case,
why
does
that
appear
to
be
so
because
I
think
we
would
all
agree
that
that's
not
great
for
public
confidence,
because
people
need
to
have
confidence
in
the
data
that
they
hear
about
and
they
read
about
and
they
need
to
let
everyone's
working
together.
C
So
thanks
very
much,
I
think.
That's
it's
a
really
important
question
from
ms
lennon.
I
I
don't
believe
and
having
been
in
the
discussion
myself
I
I
did
not
witness
or
hear
a
row.
What
I
heard
was
was
a
view
expressed
as
I've
now
reported
it
from
the
imt
and
from
the
city
council
that
they
believed
it
was
possible
on
the
basis
of
what
they
the
data
they
were.
Looking
at
as
the
same
data,
we
were
looking
at
to
open,
non-alcohol
related
hospitality
from
this
weekend.
C
That
was
not
a
judgment
that
we
shared
and
it
is
a
judgment.
It's
not
a,
as
I
said,
to
a
convener.
There
isn't
a
it's,
not
a
binary
position
that
you
can
get
into
here
in
any
of
these
outbreaks.
It
is
a
range
of
factors
that
you
take
into
account.
I
know
ms
leonard
understands
that
I
would
not
characterize
that
as
a
route.
I
would
characterize
that
as
entirely
legitimate,
that
you
can
look
at
the
same
information
and
reach
a
different
judgment,
but
recognizing
that
that
was
different.
C
That
was
why
we
also
collectively
took
the
decision
that
we
would
reconvene
probably
on
sunday.
Looking
then,
at
the
data
before
us,
which
covers
a
number
of
days,
obviously
since
the
beginning
of
the
week,
hoping
to
see
the
continuation
of
a
reduction
in
the
numbers
of
cases,
a
continuation
of
the
real
success
of
test
and
protect
and
a
reduction,
steady
reduction
in
terms
of
the
rates
per
hundred
thousand,
particularly
in
the
non-cluster
related
cases,
so
the
ones
that
are
not
directly
related
to
the
nighttime
hospitality.
C
Where
we
have
a
degree
of
confidence.
We
have
captured
all
of
those,
and
so
we
would
meet
on
sunday,
and
we
hoped
that
that
was
a
compromise
position.
If
you
like
between
those
two
judgments
that
would
allow
us,
I
hope,
on
sunday,
if
we've
seen
the
right
progress
to
be
able
to
say,
non-alcohol-related.
Hospitality
can
open
from
wednesday,
and
here
is
the
the
route
for
all
the
other
restrictions
to
be
lifted
and
the
outline
time
frame
for
that
now.
A
F
Dude,
it
appears
to
be
on
so
I
will
continue.
Thank
you
secretary,
that's
helpful,
and
in
the
interest
of
transparency
and
well,
the
scottish
government
published
the
recommendations
that
came
from
the
incident
management
team,
but
I
can
actually
just
one
further
question:
convener,
depending
what
happens
on
sunday
if
the
restrictions
are
to
continue.
If
that's
what
government's
minded
to
do
clearly,
there
is
a
different
confidence.
F
C
So,
as
I'm
sure
ms
lenin
understands
that
area
of
government
is
not
in
my
portfolio,
but
I
do
know
that
ms
hislop
and
her
officials
have
engaged
consistently
with
the
business
community
in
aberdeen
city
that
additional
one
million
pounds,
which
is
additional
support,
has
been
provided,
and
I
know
that
ms
hislop
will
be
open
to
any
further
discussions
that
the
business
community
want
to
have
with
her.
And
we
will
see
where
we
get
to
over
the
course
of
the
coming
days.
G
Thank
you,
convener,
first
of
all,
chemistry
can
I
welcome
the
indication
that
will
be
an
interim
review
meeting
on
sunday.
I'm
sure
that
in
aberdeen
there
will
be
customers
who
will
want
to
use
the
the
facilities
that
are
in
prospect
for
reopening,
but
in
aberdeenshire,
which
constitutes
the
overwhelming
majority
of
my
consultancy.
The
people
I've
been
meeting
are
extremely
cautious
and
simply
won't
return
to
businesses
in
aberdeen
until
they
assess
that
the
the
infection
risk
has
come
down.
G
So
what
I
want
to
ask
cabinet
century
is
how
are
you
considering
the
impact
on
the
general
public
of
the
numbers
that
you've
given
the
37.2
per
hundred
thousand,
which
compares
with
six
in
the
whole
of
scotland,
showing
that
we
still
have
elevated
levels
of
infection
in
aberdeen?
My
constituents
are
extremely
cautious
about
that,
and
even
if
everything
opens
up
next
week,
I
don't
think
a
flood
of
them
will
be
going
there.
G
C
Well,
I
I
think
mr
stevenson
is
right
in
in
general
terms
and
as
much
as
if,
if
any
government
gets
ahead
of
where
a
community
is,
then
that
is
not
the
right
place
for
a
government
to
be
equally
for
a
government
to
be
lagging
behind.
Where
our
community
is
is
equally
not
the
right
place
for
a
government
to
be
the
the
way
in
which
we
try
to
lead
in
this
area
is
to
set
out
the
the
issues
that
we're
looking
at
the
balance
that
we're
trying
to
strike
recognize.
C
Absolutely
that
you
know
these
decisions
can
be
hard
to
throw
for
those
on
the
receiving
end
of
them
and
that
they
are
difficult
to
make.
But
our
rationale
for
making
them
and
our
our
intention
in
trying
to
suppress
the
the
virus
overall
and
the
the
public
will
hear
that
and
will
will
reach
their
own
judgment
about
whether
they
think
what
we
are
doing
as
government
makes
sense
to
them
or
not.
C
And
we
are
very
mindful
and
have
been
from
the
outset
here,
of
the
situation
in
aberdeenshire
and
indeed
in
murray
and
taking
a
careful
eye
to
ensure
that
we
don't
see
spread
in
any
significant
way
into
either
of
those
two
geographical
areas
surrounding
the
city,
and
that,
of
course,
was
part
of
the
reason
for
the
five
mile
restriction
asking
people
not
to
travel
more
than
five
miles
for
leisure
purposes.
Obviously,
work
in
education
is
a
different
matter
so
to
to
limit
the
travel
restriction,
but
not
to
over,
impose
into
travel
restrictions.
C
So
we're
very
mindful
of
the
the
two
and
four
from
the
surrounding
geographies
to
a
sector,
a
city
and
aberdeen
city
in
this
particular
instance,
and
trying
to
ensure
that
the
situation
in
the
city
that
we
are
trying
to
control
does
not
spread
exponentially
outside
and
therefore
affect
residents
elsewhere.
As
well.
H
H
H
Thank
you
convener
and
good
morning
cabinet
secretary,
I'd
like
to
ask
where
students
feature
in
the
government's
plans
about
local
lockdowns
and
the
student
population
we
know
will
be
making
moves
to
return
or
arrive,
perhaps
for
the
first
time
in
aberdeen,
including
many
from
shetland.
So
how
will
local
lockdown
measures
take
account
of
this.
C
C
So
if
we
get
to
a
stage
we
may
not
do,
but
if
we
did
where
the
universities
in
oncologist
in
aberdeen
city
were
restarting
in
as
much
as
their
student
population
was
arriving
any
restrictions
there,
we
would
be
working
with
the
university
and
call
universities
and
colleges
to
make
sure
that
they
were
giving
their
students
accurate
information
about
what
what
they
were
expected
to
do
as
people
living
alongside
the
citizens
of
that
city.
So
that's
how
we
would
undertake
that
work
and
where
we
are
working
very
hard.
C
My
apologies,
ms
wishart.
I
can't
confirm
for
sure,
but
I
will
check
this.
What
information
was
sent
to
other
local
authority
areas
in
respect
to
the
decisions
made
around
aberdeen
city?
Obviously,
aberdeen
shire
council
was
engaged
in
the
discussions,
but
wider
than
that.
I
can't
absolutely
confirm
that
with
certainty
and
I'd
rather
be
sure,
so
I
will
double
check
that
and
make
sure
that
you
know-
and
it's
a
very
important
point
to
make
sure
that
to
remember
the
interrelationships
between
our
different
local
authorities.
C
More
importantly,
the
people
who
live
in
those
areas
moving
from
one
local
authority
area
to
another
for
work
or
family
or
other
purposes.
I
have
not
had
any
information
that
patients
from
shetland
or
or
the
orkneys
had
cancelled
appointments.
There
was
no
reason
to
to
think
that
the
hospitals
in
the
city
were
any
less
safe
than
they
than
because
of
the
restrictions
they.
The
measures
taken
in
those
hospital
settings
are
as
comprehensive
and
effective
as
anywhere
else.
I
Thank
you,
convener
cabinet
secretary,
obviously
they'll
be
interested
in
how
the
rules
working
in
aberdeen
should.
I
hope
they
don't
need
to
be
operated
elsewhere
in
the
future.
So
can
I
ask
for
a
view
please
as
to
how
they,
how
you
feel
the
the
rules
around
those
premises
who
defy
the
rules,
will
operate
and
thinking
particularly
of
fixed
penalties
and
just
some
assessment
from
you
about
how
you
feel
that
will
work
and
whether
you
feel
it
is
workable.
C
Thank
you
very
much.
Of
course,
you
know
that
that
we
have
moved
some
of
what
was
in
guidance
into
a
more
statutory
position
in
terms
of
hospitality,
particularly
around
contact,
tracing
contact,
tracing
and
taking
of
contacts
in
restaurants
and
bars
is
really
important,
as
is
preventing
standing
at
bars
and
cueing.
That
isn't
two
meter
distance
queuing.
C
D
Dr
alan,
the
contravening
an
obligation
imposed
on
a
business
under
the
regulations
is
an
offense.
Ultimately,
the
regulations,
though,
bolster
that
with
a
number
of
enforcement
measures,
including
the
ability
for
a
notice
to
be
issued,
requiring
compliance
with
one
of
the
obligations
in
the
regulations
and,
as
you
indicate
a
fixed
penalty
notice
regime.
D
E
Thank
you
convina
good
morning,
everyone
cabinet
secretary,
their
preamble
to
these
regulations,
states
that
the
scottish
minister
clutch
ministers
consider
that
the
restrictions
and
requirements
imposed
in
these
regulations
are
proportionate
to
what
they
seek
to
achieve.
Can
you
explain
to
me
what
you
understand
by
a
proportionate
piece.
C
E
Thank
you
proportionate
is
not
a
term
that
we
can
choose
to
define
how.
However,
we
like
it's
a
it's
a
matter
of
law
and
in
law.
It
means
doesn't
it
that
measures
will
be
lawful
only
if
they
can
be
shown
on
the
basis
of
evidence
to
be
the
least
restrictive
available
means
that's
what
proportionality
means.
So
a
proportionate
response
is
the
least
restrictive
available
means.
E
So
in
order
to
understand
whether
these
regulations
meet
or
do
not
meet
that
test,
we
need
to
know
what
the
intended
outcome
is,
and
the
intended
outcome
has
been
perfectly
clear
right
from
the
beginning
of
the
coronavirus
crisis.
The
intended
outcome
is
to
protect
lives
or
to
save
lives
and
to
protect
the
nhs.
E
C
There
have
also
been
172
cases
in
aberdeen
not
linked
to
that
initial
cluster
and,
as
I
said
in
my
opening
remarks
and
in
response
to
one
of
the
questions
they,
together
with
the
clusters
linked
to
bars
and
leisure
facilities,
are
of
considerable
concern
and
relate
back
to
the
cases
per
hundred
thousand,
which
of
course,
is
a
really
important
measure
of
the
level
of
risk
in
terms
of
individuals
in
hospital
or
intensive
care.
My
understanding
is
that
no
none
of
those
cases
have
been
in
intensive
care.
C
We
will
double
check,
but
I
don't
believe
that
any
either
have
been
admitted
to
hospital.
Of
course,
as
we
know,
and
as
I'm
sure
mr
tompkins
is
aware,
the
measure
of
seriousness
of
the
impact
of
the
virus
should
you
contract.
It
is
not
simply
whether
or
not
you
are
hospitalized
or
end
in
intensive
care,
but
also
the
harm
to
your
health
and
emerging
evidence
is
really
clear
about
the
long-term
harm
to
health,
both
respiratory
and
cardiovascular,
to
those
individuals
otherwise
healthy
before
they
contracted
the
virus.
E
And
given
that,
as
you
just
said,
there
are
very
few
hospitalizations
and
no
incidences
at
the
moment
of
covered
patients
being
in
intensive
care
in
relation
to
the
aberdeen
cluster.
It
is
very
difficult
to
understand
what
the
evidence
is
that
justifies
a
partial
lockdown
of
a
city
of
228
thousand
people,
and
that
and
that's
our
job
is
our
job
to
try
and
understand
what
measures
are
necessary
to
be
taken
and
to
ensure
that
the
measures
which
are
being
taken
are
the
least
restrictive,
available
means
and
so
comments
actually
get
given.
E
C
So
you
don't
just
look
at
what
you
are
required
to
do
and
whether
it
is
proportionate
solely
on
the
basis
of
what
numbers
have
gone
into
hospital
and
how
many
people
are
in
icu.
You
look
at
what
is
the
prevalence
of
the
virus
in
this
particular
community
that
could
be
a
city.
It
could
be
a
another
defined
community,
a
town
or
or
whatever
it
might
be.
What
is
the
prevalence
of
that,
and
is
it
too
high?
Is
it
rising?
Is
it
coming
down,
but
not
fast
enough?
C
How
does
it
compare
to
the
rest
of
the
country?
Because
if
it
is
much
higher
than
the
rest
of
the
country,
then
the
risk
is,
if
you
don't
contain
it
and
control
it
in
the
geography
where
it
is,
it
will
spread,
because
you
know
I
know
you
know,
as
others
in
the
committee
do
just
how
easily
this
virus
spreads
given
half
a
chance.
C
The
range
of
restrictions
that
yes
have
had
a
very
serious
impact
on
business
in
the
area,
but
they've
also
had
a
serious
impact
on
care,
home
residents
and
families
on
patients
in
hospital
and
families
who
cannot
visit
them
on
travel
on
a
range
of
other
activities
that
citizens
would
want
to
be
able
to
pursue,
quite
rightly,
but
they
are,
in
my
view,
necessary
in
order
to
prevent
a
significant
and
complex
outbreak
in
aberdeen.
That
clearly
is
now
producing
non-cluster
cases
to
prevent
that
spreading.
C
A
D
A
J
Thank
you,
convener
cabinet
secretary.
I
realize
I'm
about
to
ask
what
sounds
like
a
simple
question
that
definitely
doesn't
have
a
a
simple
answer,
but
bear
with
me
on
the
point
that
mr
tompkins
raised
of
proportionality
and
the
selection
of
the
least
restrictive
measures
that
achieve
the
intended
outcome.
You've
touched
on
this
a
little
bit
already,
but
would
you
be
able
to
briefly
summarize
at
which
measures
that
are
less
restrictive
than
the
ones
you've
chosen
were
considered
and
discounted
and
why
they
were
discounted?
C
G
Thank
you,
convener
cabinet
secretary,
adam
tonkins,
appeared
to
argue
against
there
being
any
restrictions
in
aberdeen
at
all
where
we
are
facing
37.2
per
hundred
thousand
seven
day
rate
against
scotland.
Six
as
a
person
who's
for
156
days
now
essentially
been
isolated
from
most
of
the
local
community
and
other
community.
G
I
want
to
see
that
at
six
and
any
measure
that
gets
us
to
six
is
is
is
one
I
want
to
support,
but
the
fundamental
question
reduction
had
of
sudden
perhaps
is:
if
we
do
nothing,
will
the
figure
in
aberdeen
come
from
37.2
down
two
to
six,
because
if
the
answer
is
doing
nothing
won't
achieve
that,
then
it
is
proportionate
that
there
be
restrictions
in
aberdeen.
Is
that
a
fair
statement
of
affairs.
C
So
I
think
mr
mr
stevenson
raises
a
really
important
central
point,
but
before
I
get
to
it,
he
raises
another,
which
is
the
importance
of
everything
that
we
do
to
protect
those
who
are
most
at
risk
from
the
virus,
which
is
obviously
those
in
those
hundred
and
eighty
thousand
people
who
we
have
advised.
It
is
safe
to
no
longer
shield
and
to
begin
to
pick
up
aspects
of
their
lives
that
others
others
have
enjoyed
for
longer.
B
Thank
you
convina
good
morning,
cabinet
secretary,
I
I
was
very
interested
in
it.
Your
evidence
today,
which
of
course,
will
form
part
of
my
decision
about
how
I
support
what's
happening
or
not
today,
but
you
mentioned
quite
significantly
the
the
hard
work
of
the
teams
that
have
been
involved
and
the
success
of
the
test
and
protect
and
and
to
my
mind
the
fact
that
we
haven't
had
any
deaths
or
in
admissions
into
intensive
care.
B
It
shows
that
that
that
work
has
been
effective
and
and
that
we
have
protected
our
citizens
by
the
actions
that
being
taken
by
the
government.
So
I
was
pleased
to
hear
that,
but
you
need
three
commitments
and
the
meeting
on
sunday
with
partners
to
move
ahead.
The
one
million
pound
package,
which
you've
said
you
know
further
detail,
will
come
from
miss
household.
B
C
C
Forgive
me
it's
it's
not
it's
not
the
root
map.
That
is
that
the
first
minister
will
speak
about
today
in
parliament.
It
is
if
you
like,
a
a
can't
think
of
another
word
for
a
root
map.
What
what
we
ideally
want
to
do-
and
I
and
I
do
not
know
if
this
is
possible-
and
we
won't
know
that
until
we
have
seen
the
additional
information
that
will
come
to
us
in
the
period
between
the
the
decision
that
was
taken
not
to
lift
restrictions
at
this
point
and
the
review.
C
C
And
it's
not
straightforward
to
do
that,
because
we
can't
what
we
can't
do
is
say.
If,
if
we
get
to
this
figure,
that's
what
we
can
then
make
happen
because,
as
you
rightly
say,
ms
adamson,
there
are
a
number
of
factors
to
take
account
of,
not
least
the
restarting
of
universities
and
the
extra
numbers,
significant
extra
numbers
of
people
who
will
be
in
the
city
from
many
different
parts
of
the
uk.
So
we
will
try
to
give
those
businesses
for
whom
restrictions
continue.
C
An
indication
of
what
they
can
plan
for
and
what
they
can
plan
towards,
as
we
have
tried
to
do
in
the
overall
route
map,
with
indicative
dates
and
so
on.
So
we
will
try
to
do
that,
but
this
should
what
I'm
saying
now
should
not
be
taken
as
an
indication
that
that
is
definitely
what
we
will
do,
because
I
do
not
know
at
this
point
how
possible
and
to
what
level
of
detail
we
will
be
able
to
set
out.
K
K
First
of
all,
what
was
the
specific
advice
and
providence
received
by
the
scottish
government
from
the
local
team
which
the
which
you
and
or
the
first
minister,
deemed
insufficiently
persuasive
for
a
partial
relaxation
and
just
referring
back
to
monica
lennon's
question
earlier?
Will
you
be
publishing
that
data.
C
Okay,
thank
you
very
much.
So
the
the
all
the
imts
currently
handling
outbreaks
across
scotland
at
the
moment
meet
a
frequency
they
determine
they.
They
go
through
a
number
of
areas
which
is
around
case
numbers,
the
rate
per
hundred
thousand
the
epidemiology
where
they
think
the
cases
are
linked,
how
they
are
doing
on
test
and
protect
and
any
other
issues
that
they
think
are
important
for
them
to
address
in
terms
of
whether
or
not
the
impact
on
their
capacity
to
control
the
virus
and
prevent
onward
transmission.
C
And
some
of
that
includes
a
consideration
of
the
offer
that
we
always
make
about
whether
or
not
they
require
additional
resources
in
order
to
assist
them.
That
may
include
additional
mobile
testing
units
or
additional
resource
from
the
national
provision
in
terms
of
contact
tracing,
so
we're
seeing
that
information
on
a
regular
basis,
not
simply
when
we
come
to
consider
whether
or
not
in
this
instance
in
aberdeen
whether
restrictions
could
be
lifted
in
a
whole
or
a
partial
sense,
at
all.
We're
seeing
that
all
the
time
to
that
comes.
C
Our
health
protection
service,
of
course,
is
directly
involved
in
that
and
the
directors
of
public
health
and
other
clinical
leads
locally
will
be
involved
in
it
to
that.
We
then
have
the
senior
level
advice
from
the
chief
medical
officer
and
the
national
clinical
director,
and
that
is
that
and
the
actual
data
about
number
of
cases,
whether
anyone
has
been
hospitalized,
how
many
contacts
have
been
identified.
Have
they
all
been
traced?
What
has
happened
with
those
already
symptomatic
or
tested,
and
so
on
and
so
forth?
C
C
So
that
is
the
information,
and
that
is
the
basis
on
which
government
reached
its
view.
Having
looked
at
all
the
information
and
and
took
a
different
judgment
in
terms
of
what
is
published
and
what
is
not
published,
I'm
I'm
not
aware
of
any
particular
protocol.
There
may
be
in
terms
of
how
local
ints
operate.
C
I'm
happy
to
check
that
in
terms
of
the
the
information
that
that
we
are
looking
at
as
government
that
doesn't
come
direct
from
the
imt
but
does
come
in
terms
of
those
other
numbers.
We
will.
Of
course,
we
publish
as
much
as
we
can
publish
that.
We
are
confident
is
robust
and
statistically
sound,
and
I
will
check
what
the
position
is
in
local
imts
and
whether
or
not
they
have
a
locus
in
determining
the
publication
of
their
own
material.
K
I'm
very
grateful
cabinet
secretary,
I
mean
one
would
hope
that
it's
all
robust
and
statistically
sound.
So
yes,
if
you
wouldn't
mind,
checking
out
what
can
be
published
and
letting
me
know
I'll
be
very
grateful.
There
seems
to
be
second
question
that
there
seems
to
be
a
suggestion
that
5000
jobs
might
be
lost
as
a
result
of
the
continuing
restrictions.
K
C
Of
course,
in
everything
that
we
are
doing
and
the
overall
root
mark
in
the
the
way
we
have
set
out
how
we
will
make
these
decisions.
We
talk
about
balancing
the
harms
and
there
is
the
immediate
health
impact
of
covet
which,
as
mr
tomkin
says,
it
can
and
has
taken
lives.
There
are
the
other
health
harms
caused
by
measures
that
we
have
taken
to
try
and
control
and
suppress
this
virus.
K
Thank
you
for
that.
I
I
do
understand
the
point
you're
making
I'll
ask
mrs
locke
for
for
that
assessment.
So
thanks
for
that
and
the
final
question
for
me,
if
I'm
a
convener,
I
in
response
cabinet
secretary
to
a
question
from
stuart
stevenson,
earlier,
you
mentioned
the
five
mile
travel
restriction.
K
Now
I
saw
the
aberdeen
and
grampian
chamber
of
commerce
describe
the
the
five
mile
restriction
as
inexplicable
was
the
word
that
they
used.
Can
you
point
me
or
what,
in
your
evidence
that
was
used
to
kind
of
overrule
the
local?
Can
you
provide
to
them
that
will
make
the
five
mile
restriction,
explicable.
A
Right.
Thank
you,
mr
cara.
Thank
you
cabinet
secretary.
I
don't
see
any
other
members
only
coming
to
ask
questions
at
this
stage.
In
that
case,
we
will
move
on
to
agenda
item
two
and
I'd
invite
the
cabinet
secretary
to
move
motion
s5n
to
two
four
two.
Two
now
the
covert
19
committee
recommends
that
the
health
protection
criminal
is
restrictions
operating
city
regulations,
2020,
ssi,
2020-234,
be
approved,
government.
A
E
E
Why,
in
her
judgment,
they
are
proportionate,
why
they
are
the
least
restrictive
available
means,
and
we-
and
we
know
what
the
means
are
designed
to
achieve
and
they're
designed
to
achieve
ends
which
we
all
share.
Irrespective
of
our
other
political
differences,
we
all
want
to
suppress
the
spread
of
the
virus.
G
Thank
you,
convener,
with
our
rate
for
a
hundred
thousand,
that
is
more
than
six
times
greater
than
the
scottish
number
in
aberdeenshire
area.
People's
lives
will
be
at
risk.
If
we
do
not
pass
this
today,
I
cannot
measure
that
risk.
I
can
say
someone
over
70
years
old
that
I
am
likely
to
be
personally
affected
by
that
risk,
because
if
I'm
infected
the
results
on
an
older
age
person
are
substantially
more
severe.
G
All
the
evidence
tells
us
that
so
for
a
personal
reason,
I
won't
entirely
support
this,
but
I
urge
adam
tonkins
to
think
again
on
this.
It
is
proportionate
to
consider
measures
that
will
bring
us
down
from
a
level
to
a
hundred
thousand
six
times
greater
than
the
scottish
average
and
no
other
way
of
doing
this
has
emerged.
J
Thank
you,
convener.
The
cabinet
secretaries
explained
this
morning
why
measures
short
of
the
ones
proposed
would
not
potentially
achieve
the
outcome
that
we
all
want
to
achieve
and,
as
stewart
stevenson
said,
with
an
infection
rate
markedly
higher
than
the
rest
of
the
country.
Clearly,
robust
action
is
required,
proportionate,
but
robust.
J
So
was
that
except
the
really
significant
economic
concerns,
and
I
think
we
all
should
recognize
that
both
the
scottish
and
uk
governments
will
need
to
provide
bespoke
support,
not
just
aberdeen
but
to
anywhere
else
that
has
to
go
into
a
localized
lockdown,
both
through
direct
business
support,
extensions
of
the
furlough
scheme,
etc.
We
should
never
see
this
as
a
choice
between
public
health
or
the
economy.
The
most
robust
measures
to
protect
public
health
are
the
measures
that
protect
our
economy
in
the
long
term.
I'm
content
to
support
these
measures.
A
Thank
you,
mr
greer,
and
just
before
I
invite
the
community
to
respond.
I
would
just
comment
personally
that
my
concern
around
this
is
that
we
have
a
local
incident
management
team,
local
health
professionals
who've
taken
a
particular
view
of
what
should
be
done
and
the
scottish
government
has
taken
a
different
view,
and
my
concern
is
that
local
opinion
is
being
overridden
by
the
scottish
government
at
the
center
and
that's
why
I'm
myself
nervous
about
supporting
these
regulations
as
they
stand,
but
I
will
go
to
the
cabinet
secretary
to
respond.
Please.
C
Thank
you
very
much
convener.
I
I
think
I
have
said
a
very
great
deal
already
as
to
why
I
think
these
measures
are
are
necessary.
I
would
make
two
points
if
I
can
address
myself
to
your
concern.
I
understand
that
concern.
I
I
think
that,
inevitably
in
situations
where
there
are
different
judgments
based
on
comparable
information
and
indeed
the
same
information,
what
we
try
to
do
is
find
out
through
that.
C
C
My
other
point
is
really
to
to
agree
very
much
with
what
mr
grier
said.
I
think
it
we
should
be
very
careful
not
to
see
public
health
and
the
economy
is
in
some
kind
of
battle
with
each
other
that
it's
one
or
the
other.
They
are
inextricably
linked
in
normal
times.
A
healthy,
vibrant
economy
that
offers
equality
of
opportunity
to
all
is
that
an
economy
that
contributes
to
good
public
health
here.
C
Maintaining
safe
public
health
contributes
absolutely
to
the
potential
we
have
to
have
that
vibrant
growing
economy,
so
the
two
do
go
hand
in
hand
and
the
balancing
decisions.
The
judgments
that
have
to
be
made
between
what
we
have
described
before
as
the
the
range
of
harms
is
never
easy
and
absolutely
we
have
said
before.
I
have
no
doubt
there
will
be
times
when
we
have
not
got
it
absolutely
right,
but
in
this
instance
I
think
the
figures
speak
for
themselves.
C
Without
those
robust
measures,
we
would
be
looking
at
even
greater
infection
levels
in
aberdeen
city
than
we
are
looking
at
now.
The
situation's
improving,
but
not
sufficiently
so
at
this
point
for
us
to
feel
confident
in
lifting
the
restrictions
today,
but
we
will
look
again
on
sunday
and
this
these
powers
are
necessary
for
us
to
be
able
to
make
that
progress
in
partnership
with
our
local
colleagues.
C
A
A
A
A
A
Okay,
the
result
of
the
vote
is
as
follows:
in
favor
of
the
motion
where
seven
votes,
claire
adamson
ruth
maguire,
aleister,
allen,
george
stevenson,
ross,
crea,
peters
wishart
and
monica
lennon,
there
were
numbers
against
and
there
were
two
abstentions
from
adam
tompkins
and
myself,
and
that
motion
is
therefore
agreed
to
we'll
never
go
to
agenda
item
three
which
relates
to
ssis,
to
which
the
cabinet
secretary
gave
evidence
to
this
committee.
At
our
meeting
on
the
28th
of
july,
our
members
contend
for
motions,
s5m22238
and
s5m22299
be
moved
on
block.
A
I
take
it.
Members
are
content
to
do
that
and
then
therefore
invite
the
minister
to
move
both
motion
s5m22238
that
the
committee
recommends
that
the
social
care
staff
support
fund,
coronavirus,
scotland,
regulation,
2020,
ssi
2020-188
be
approved
and,
secondly,
motion
s5m22299,
that
the
committee
recommends
that
the
care
homes,
emergency
intervention,
orders
bruno
various
scotland
regulations,
2020,
ssi,
2020-201.
A
A
A
L
Thank
you
convener,
and
thank
you
for
the
invitation
to
come
back,
which
they,
I
think
is
on
the
eighth
occasion.
I've
appeared
in
front
of
this
committee
today.
I
want
to
discuss
two
further
sets
of
amending
regulations
which
amend
the
health
protection,
coronavius
restrictions,
scotland
regulation
2020
more
commonly
known
as
the
lockdown
regulations
on
the
30th
of
july,
the
scholarship
which
gave
an
indication
of
the
order
in
which
we
will
carefully
and
gradually
dig
to
implement
further
changes.
L
In
phase
three
of
that
map,
the
first
minister
announced
the
outcome
of
the
sixth
review
of
the
restrictions
and
requirements
set
out
in
the
principal
regulations
on
the
30th
of
july.
The
outcome
of
that
review
and
the
assessment
of
the
evidence
was
that
it
was
not
yet
appropriate
to
move
to
phase
four
of
the
route
map
in
easing
lockdown.
L
The
amending
regulations
to
be
discussed
today
give
effect
to
aspects
of
phase
three
of
using
lockdown,
but
also
strengthen
the
rules
and
mitigations.
We
have
in
place
to
keep
the
virus
under
control.
The
scottish
government
made
amending
regulations
by
way
of
made
affirmative
procedure
on
the
31st
of
july
and
the
7th
of
august.
These
regulations
ended
in
total
force
on
various
different
dates,
and
the
plenary
vote
will
take
place
in
due
course.
L
The
amending
regulations
make
a
number
of
adjustments
to
the
principle
regulations.
They
are
to
adjust
areas
where
the
decision
to
implement
further
aspects
of
phase
three
necessitates
a
change
to
the
restrictions
on
businesses
and
individuals.
The
regulations
have
allowed
community
centres
to
reopen
and
remove
the
legal
requirement
on
schools
to
maintain
physical
distancing.
L
The
regulations
also
make
provision
for
additional
measures
that
are
necessary
to
limit
the
spread
of
the
virus.
This
includes
extending
the
locations
in
which
a
face
covering
must
be
worn
and
to
give
scottish
ministers
a
power
to
issue
guidance
on
measures
which
should
be
taken
in
order
to
minimize
the
risk
of
the
incidence
and
spread
of
the
virus
as
set
up
out
in
the
updated
route
map.
There
are
some
proposed
changes
to
phase
three
where
we
have
not
set
or
confirmed
the
date
when
they
will
come
into
force.
L
Our
expectation
from
the
start
of
phase
three
is
that
this
phase
may
well
last
for
considerably
more
than
three
weeks
we're
already
in
week
six
of
the
phase.
It's
not
yet
clear
when
we'll
be
able
to
step
forward
to
phase
four,
but
we
are,
of
course
keeping
that
under
regular
review.
The
next
review
date
for
the
regulations
is
today
and
a
further
review
is
planned
for
the
10th
of
september.
L
The
first
minister
will
provide
an
update
today,
as
I've
said,
and
set
up
the
findings
of
today's
review,
and
I'm
sure
the
committee
will
understand
straight
as
it
will
be
that
it
would
not
be
appropriate
for
me
to
preempt
anything
that
the
first
minister
might
announce
later
today
during
the
plenary
session.
I
hope
convening
that's
been
helpful.
I'd
be
happy
to
take
questions.
A
Can
I
start
by
asking
a
question
around
face
coverings.
You
might
recall,
in
a
previous
committee
session,
graham
simpson
asked
concerns
about
the
number
seven
regulations
and
he
stated
at
that
time.
It
was
unclear
in
relation
to
where
face
masks
are
and
are
not
required
to
be
worn,
particularly
in
relation
to
shots
which
contain
a
post
office
or
facilities
which
involve
money
transfer.
L
Well,
there
are
no
amendments
and
at
the
present
moment,
but
mr
simpson
did
raise
a
number
of
points
which
are
also
clarified
by
these
regulations.
I
wonder
if
I
might
ask
rebecca
white
to
mention
talk
specifically
about
banks
and
post
offices
as
you're
right
to
say,
the
regulations
define
quite
clearly
where
facebook
coverings
should
be
worn.
L
They
include
a
whole
range
of
places
which
you
perhaps
haven't
thought
of,
like
aquariums
indoor
zoos,
visitor
farms,
but
they
do
include
banks,
building
societies
and
credit
unions,
and
that
was
an
issue
previously
where
there
was
a
difference
between
the
regulations,
north
and
south
of
the
border,
but
perhaps
rebecca
white
might
like
to
say
a
word
or
two
about
banks
and
about
post
offices,
because
that
does
indicate.
I
know
the
the
the
detail
that
we
have
to
go
into
and
also
the
process
of
negotiation
with
stakeholders.
That's
often
involved
in
these
matters.
A
Okay,
thank
you
very
much.
I
I
see
raw
spear
wants
to
come
in
with
a
really
supplemented.
Can
I
just
ask
one
more
question
before
I
bring
him
in,
I
certainly
have
had
representation
from
constituents
and
those
working
in
the
retail
sector
saying
they
prefer
waiting
face
visors
to
waiting
face
coverings.
L
And,
interestingly,
you
know
there
is
very
clear,
very
clear
view
on
this.
Now
and,
and
the
regulations
require
you
if
you're
to
wear
a
visor,
also
to
wear
a
face,
mask
and
sage
discussed
the
this
on
the
23rd
of
july,
and
they
discussed
the
role
of
visors
in
the
context
of
the
role
of
aerosol
transmission,
which
is
the
issue
and
the
group.
L
The
sage
group
concluded
that
advisors
alone
are
inadequate
protection,
particularly
for
staff
in
close
working
sectors
such
as
hairdressers,
and
advise
that
the
guidance
should
be
updated
to
include
the
wearing
of
face
coverings
and-
and
indeed,
if
I
can
call
jason
leach
on
this,
because
he
was
the
one
who
who
made
the
point
publicly.
The
scientific
advice
is
that
face
shields
do
not
provide
adequate
protection
against
small
viral
droplets,
which
can
escape
from
the
bottom
of
a
face
shield
and
land
on
surfaces
or
stay
in
the
air
for
periods
of
time.
L
They
can
provide
some
protection
for
the
wearer
against
large
droplet
closure,
including,
for
example,
splashing
in
a
healthcare
setting,
but
they're
unlikely
to
provide
any
protection
for
the
weather
against
small
aerosols.
You
can
wear
a
facial
if
you
choose
to,
however,
you
must
wear
a
face
covering
underneath.
J
Thank
you,
convener,
and
just
on
on
the
specific
point
that
question
that's
been
raised
with
me
by
folk
who
work
in
retail
and
employers
who
have
staff
working
in
retail
environments
just
on
on
exact
clarity
around
the
requirements
to
be
wearing
a
face
covering
in
those
settings.
So
the
relevant
section
gets
paragraph
three
section
d
clarifies
the
the
requirement
to
wear
face
covering,
but
exemptions
to
that.
It
say
that
my
reading
over
the
scene
should
be
for
staff
as
long
as
they're,
not
within
two
meters
of
of
other
individuals.
M
Yeah,
so
to
answer
that
question
that
bit
of
the
regulation
sets
out
some
situations
in
which
an
employee
or
volunteer
or
other
perspective
working
for
the
setting
doesn't
have
to
wear
a
face
covering,
and
mr
greer
is
indeed
right.
If
a
distance
of
two
meters
is
maintained
between
that
person
and
members
of
the
public
so
doesn't
cover
other
employees,
they
don't
have
to
wear
a
face
covering
there's,
also
additional
things.
M
That
might
mean
that
you
don't
have
to
wear
a
face
covering,
so
that
is
where
there's
a
partition
or
a
screen
between
that
employee
and
members
of
the
public.
That
also
means
that
they're
exempt
from
wearing
a
face
covering
so
sorry,
just
just
to
add,
of
course,
in
settings
where
staff
members
are
exempt.
There
is
guidance
that
suggests
that
if
they
feel
that
they
would
like
to
wear
a
face
covering,
they
are,
of
course
not
prevented
from
wearing
a
face
covering
if
they
feel
that
would
be
appropriate.
J
Yes,
thanks,
sir,
I
just
needed
the
microphone
turn
back
on
yeah.
That
was
very
useful.
Thank
you,
rebecca
just
to
clarify
comparing
this
to
situation
in
schools,
the
guidance
that's
been
provided
for
school
staff
is
relatively
clear
and
that
staff
should
they're
strongly
encouraged
to
wear
face,
covering,
if
they're,
within
two
meters
of
pupils
for
more
than
15
minutes.
J
So
a
length
of
time
is
set
out
there
and
obviously,
in
most
retail
settings
a
staff
member
is
unlikely
to
be
within
15
minutes
of
of
a
single
customer
for
for
a
prolonged
period
of
time.
But
is
there
any
comparable,
specific
guidance
there?
Obviously,
you've
got
a
lot
of
staff
in
retail,
who
will
be
moving
around
the
shop
for
regularly
and
will
could
in
the
space
of
a
minute,
come
within
two
meters
of
multiple
customers,
but
only
for
a
split
second
each
time.
M
A
I
D
J
Yeah,
thank
you
and
it's
still
brought
in
the
same
area
and
actually
covers
the
the
convener's
point
somewhat
around
face
shields
and
mr
russell's
answer
to
it.
But
the
the
quality
impact
assessment
it
notes
the
face
shields
are
excluded
from
the
definition
of
face
coverings
and
for
sensible
reasons,
as
outlined
by
the
cabinet
secretary.
They
don't
provide
equivalent
protection,
but
concerns
have
been
raised
around
accessibility
and
ability
to
communicate
because
of
the
the
lack
of
availability
of
face
covering
so
coverings
over
your
mouth
and
nose.
That
are
clear.
J
So
the
national
jeff,
the
deaf
children
society,
have
been
calling
for
people
to
wear
clear
face
masks
to
facilitate
communication.
I
wonder
if
the
government's
given
any
consideration
to
advocating
for
the
use
of
clear
face,
masks
and
settings
where
people
are
are
interacting
so,
for
example,
retailers
as
well
as
education
and
and
going
further
than
that.
If
the
government's
given
any
consideration
to
deploying
clear
face
masks,
for
example,
in
education
settings,
so
that
those
who
work
in
frontline
public
services
are
able
to
communicate
with
people
who
have
these
communication
barriers.
L
Are
they
happy
to
consider
that
and
to
respond
to
the
committee,
and
I
don't
think
there
has
been
a
consideration
of
whether
those
should
be
supplied,
but
I
do
recognize
it
ross.
Grier
will
know
that
in
the
guidance
and
the
discussions
in
education,
there
has
been
consideration
of
the
the
impact
on
face
coverings
for
learners,
with
additional
support
needs
for
those
with
any
level
of
hearing
loss
for
any
learners
who
are
acquiring
english
and
rely
on
visual
cues.
All
those
things
are
in
the
education
sphere
and
have
been
carefully
considered.
L
I've
also
had
constituents
who,
with
severe
hearing
problems
and
communication
problems,
who've
who've
asked
for
exemptions
to
be
applied
and
there
are
exemptions
in
terms
of
of
communication,
but
whether
a
suitable
compromise
can
be
found
through
the
transparent
placements.
I've
seen
some
with
simply
a
transparent
area
is
worth
considering
again
and
I'll
undertake
to
write
to
the
member
and
to
the
committee
on
it.
A
F
Thank
you
kidman
and
good
morning,
captain
pikachu.
I
want
to
pick
up
on
the
number
nine
regulations
about
education,
settings
and
in
schools
and
the
waiting
of
face
coverings,
and
I
represent
central
scotland
and
we
have
had
a
number
of
cases
in
lanarkshire
recently
involving
school-aged
people.
Some
remember
the
covets
who
haven't
been
back
in
the
school
environment
and
some
who
had
so
it
has
raised
concerns.
F
F
So
you
know,
we've
all
been
young,
we
know
what
it's
like
to
want
to
fit
in
and-
and
you
know,
do
what
looks
like
the
popular
thing.
So
right
now,
it
doesn't
look
like
in
this
school
environment.
Waiting
face
coverings
is,
is
popular
or
or
mainstream
so
cabinet
sectors.
You
cannot
ask
if
you
also
feel
a
bit
nervous
about
the
current
guidelines
and
rather
than
wait
until
we
see
more
prevalence,
do
you
think
we
should
be
doing
more
to
mainstream
and
normalize
the
wounded
face
coverings
within
the
school
environment?.
L
That's
approach.
I
understand
that,
just
to
pick
a
school
out,
the
abandonment
high
school
are
taking
and
it's
in
line
with
existing
guidance.
Now,
in
addition,
we're
keeping
the
asia
phase
governings
as
the
as
the
deputy
first
minister
said
earlier
in
the
week
under
a
very
close
review,
the
advisory
subgroup,
it
they're,
drawing
and
advice
and
feedback
from
all
the
partners,
including
in
schools,
to
make
sure
that
the
devices
is
right
and
they'll
go
on
doing
so,
and
they'll
also
examine
the
international
consensus
to
make
sure
that
they
understand
what
is
happening
elsewhere.
L
The
current
guidance,
I
think,
is
clear
that
face
coverings
should
are
not
required
for
most
children,
but
those
are
clinically
advised
to
wear
them.
You
know
it
is.
It
is
obviously
essential,
but
there
may
be
circumstances
in
which
they
should
be
advised
and
schools
should
be
advising
them.
Mr
greer
has
referred
to
the
distancing
issue.
There
are
other
issues
as
well,
but
we
also
have
to
take
account-
and
I
mentioned
this
to
mr
greer-
things
like
those
with
additional
support-
needs
those
with
hearing
loss,
those
who
who
are
acquiring
english.
L
F
F
A
H
H
L
Everyone,
but
obviously
you
know
as
soon
as
there
is
their
members
will
be
informed
of
it,
but
I
make
the
same
point
to
beatrice.
We
shouldn't
have
just
made
to
monica
11.
if
people
think
they
want
to
wear
them
if
they
think
it's
the
right
thing
to
wear
them,
if
they
feel
safer
in
wearing
them,
they
should
wear
them.
I
mean
there's
no
doubt
about
that.
A
E
Thank
you
convenient
good
morning
cabinets.
Actually,
my
question
is
not
about
face
coverings
or
face
masks,
and
nor
is
it
my
usual
question
at
the
moment
about
gyms,
although
I
still
haven't
had
what
I
regard
as
a
satisfactory
answer
to
that.
I
want
to
ask
a
question
about
another
form
of
exercise.
E
And
I'm
not
sure
if
this
is
government
advice
or
if
it's
industry
advice,
outdoor
exercise
in
the
form
of
kind
of
boot
camps
and
classes,
and
so
on
is
limited
to
a
maximum
of
four
households
at
any
one
time.
But
sports
training
for
group
or
team
sports
does
not
appear
to
be
limited
to
four
households
at
any
one
time.
I'm
just
wondering
if
I've
understood
that
correctly.
If
I
have
understood
it
correctly,
is
it
government
advice
or
is
it
industry
advice
and
can
can
the
rationale
behind
it
be?
L
A
A
M
Apart
from
the
personal
trainer
or
leader
of
the
group,
who
are
doing
the
sort
of
outdoor
activity.
That
is
because
that
is
based
on
the
regulations.
Personal
training
gatherings
would
come
under
the
gatherings
for
essentially
for
leisure
purposes.
So
that's
some
regulation.
I
think
it's
6a
of
the
regulations
at
the
moment,
which
sets
a
limit
of
no
more
than
five
households
for
gatherings
that
are
not
otherwise
specified
in
that
list
and
are
outdoors.
M
The
other
thing
that
I'd
want
to
highlight
is,
as
far
as
I
understand
it,
individual
sports
associations
are
issuing
their
own
guidance,
which
sets
out
measures
that
are
specific
to
a
particular
sport
so
cricket.
They
have
particular
guidance
about
how
cricket
balls
must
be
dealt
with
and
such
like,
but
as
far
as
I
understand
it,
those
pieces
of
guidance
from
particular
associations
must
set
out
that
the
household
limit
should
be
met,
and
so
there
shouldn't
be
a
discrepancy
on
that
front.
A
No
okay.
That
says
done.
I
don't
see
any
other
members
wanting
to
come
in
at
this
stage.
In
that
case,
we
will
move
on
to
item
five
on
the
agenda.
First
of
all,
can
I
ask
if
members
are
content,
the
motions,
s5m222426
and
s5m222421
are
moved
on
block
any
member
objects.
Can
you
please
type
n
in
the
chat
bar
there.
A
There'll
see
an
objection
to
that.
So
I
would
then
invite
the
minister
to
move
motion
s5m222426,
but
the
kubern19
committee
recommends
that
the
health
protection
criminalitis
restrictions,
scotland,
amendment
number,
nine
regulations,
2020
ssi,
2020-232,
be
approved
and
also
motion,
s5m222421-
that
the
copa
19
committee
recommends
that
the
health
protection
common
virus
restrictions,
scotland,
amendment
number,
10
regulations,
2020,
ssi,
2020,
slash,
236,
be
approved,
cabinet
secretary.
A
A
We
will
now
move
on
to
the
next
agenda
item,
which
is
again
consideration
of
subordinate
legislation,
and
this
relates
to
ssis,
to
which
the
cabinet
secretary
gave
evidence
to
the
committee
at
this
meeting
on
the
28th
of
july,
our
member's
content
that
motions
s5m222419,
s5m222420
s5m22257
and
s
five
m,
two
to
two
nine
to
be
moved
on
block.
If
any
member
is
not
content,
gonna,
please
type
n
in
the
chat
car
now.
A
I'm
not
seeing
any
objection
to
that
and
therefore
I
would
ask
the
minister
to
move
the
following
motions
on
block:
firstly,
that
the
covenant
19
committee
recommends
that
the
health
protection,
the
coronavirus
restrictions,
scholarly
amendment
number
five
regulations,
2020
ssi
2020
190-
be
approved.
Secondly,
that
the
covert
19
committee
recommends
that
the
health
protection
coronal
virus
restrictions.
Scotland,
amendment
number
six
regulation,
2020
ssi,
2020,
slash
199,
be
approved.
A
Thirdly,
that
the
covert
19
committee
recommends
that
the
health
protection
providers
restrictions,
scotland,
number,
seven
regulations,
2020,
ssi,
2020,
slash,
2010,
be
approved.
And
finally,
the
coven
19
committee
recommends
that
the
health
protection
providers
restrictions,
scotland,
amendment
number,
eight
regulations,
20
ssi,
2020,
211,.
A
A
A
I
don't
see
any
disagreement,
therefore,
that
motion
is
agreed
to.
I
think
that
concludes
the
committee.
Consid
acceleration
secondary
legislation
at
this
meeting.
I
can
I
thank
the
cabinet
secretary
for
attending
this
committee's
meeting
this
morning
and
the
committee
will
publish
a
report
to
parliament
setting
out
our
decision
on
the
saturated
instruments
in
the
coming
days.
G
Thank
you.
I
just
wanted
to
recognize.
This
is
your
last
session
as
convener
and
to
just
express
my
entirely
personal
thanks
for
the
courtesy
and
fairness
with
which
you've
conducted
yourself.
We
will
find
plenty
of
things
to
be
on
the
offensive
side
of
the
debates
in
the
future,
but
I
think
we've
made
a
very
effective
common
cause
in
the
cover
19
committee,
and
I
just
wanted
to
put
that
on
the
record
before
you
scuttle
off
to
do
other
things,
and
we
look
forward
to
your
success
in
due
course.
Thank
you.
Convina.
A
Well,
thank
you
very
much
stuart.
I'm
really
rather
embarrassed
by
that.
That's
very
kind
of
you
to
say
so
and
I
was
just
going
to
say
at
the
very
end
as
you
as
you
pre-empted
me.
This
is
indeed
my
last
meeting
of
the
committee.
I
think
there's
a
motion
decision
time
today
to
change
a
committee
membership
and
I'm
due
to
be
replaced
by
my
colleague
to
thank
all
the
team
behind
the
committee.
A
I'm
also
grateful
for
the
broadcasting
because
we
managed
to
run
all
our
meetings,
including
h2,
seamlessly,
in
my
experience,
so
thanks
to
the
broadcasting
and
all
the
technical
backup
and
finally
thank
all
the
committee
members
for
their
kindness
support
and
courtesy
towards
me,
and
I
hope
that
you
will
treat
my
successor
equally
gently
and
with
that
I
close
the
meeting.
Thank
you.