►
From YouTube: COVID-19 Committee - 7 October 2020
Description
COVID-19 Committee
A
This
morning
we
are
taking
evidence
from
the
cabinet
secretary
of
state
in
europe
and
external
affairs
on
two
ssis:
the
health
protection,
coronavirus
restrictions
and
requirements;
regulations,
twenty
twenty
ssd
dispenses
279
and
the
health
protection
coronavirus
restrictions
and
requirements.
Scotland's
amendment
regulations,
2020
ssi
2020-300.
A
The
cabinet
secretary
is
accompanied
by
three
supporting
officials
from
the
scottish
government,
professor
jason
leach,
national
clinical
director,
rebecca
white
health
protection,
coronavirus
restrictions,
regulations
coordinator
and
luke
mcbratney
bill
team
leader
coronavirus.
Scotland,
can
I
welcome
you
all
to
the
meeting
and
secretary?
Please
can
I
invite
you
to
make
an
opening
statement.
B
Thank
you
convener,
and
thank
you
for
the
invitation
to
be
back
at
the
committee
again
and
have
the
opportunity
to
discuss
even
more
regulations
which
adjust
the
national
restrictions
which
are
in
place.
The
regulations
we're
talking
about
today
revoked
and
replaced
the
previous
lockdown
regulations
providing
us
with
a
consolidated
set
of
regulations
with
a
new
expiry
date
of
the
31st
of
march
2020..
B
The
regulations
are
imposed
additional
restrictions
and
requirements
on
members
of
the
public
and
businesses.
The
strengthening
of
rules
and
mitigations
we
have
in
place
are
required
at
this
time
to
help
keep
the
virus
under
control
and,
of
course,
there
will
be
further
announcements
about
that
later
today,
as
usual,
this
committee.
This
is
retrospective
in
terms
of
regulations
which
are
already
enforced,
and
I
will
come
to
that
point
later
on.
The
scottish
government
made
these
regulations
by
way
of
the
made
affirmative
procedure
on
the
11th
and
the
24th
of
september.
B
B
The
regulations
allow
marriage
and
civil
partnership
receptions
and
funeral
wakes
to
take
place
with
slightly
larger
numbers
and
before
as
a
household
limit
on
those
does
not
apply.
These
regulations
also
adjust
the
rules
regarding
social
gatherings,
restrict
indoor
private
gatherings
from
taking
place
in
most
circumstances,
set
out
that
outdoor
and
public
indoor
gatherings
made
up
of
more
than
six
people
for
more
than
two
households
are
restricted,
with
the
exception
of
some
limited
circumstance.
B
B
Now.
Finally,
can
I
turn
to
the
issue
of
scrutiny,
which
I
know
members
will
wish
to
raise
and
raised
yesterday
with
me
in
the
chamber,
when
I
made
my
statement
on
the
legislation,
members
have
raised
genuine
concerns
about
the
current
process
in
parliament
to
consider
all
these
emergency
regulations.
B
Yeah,
I'm
sorry
you
were
breaking
up
during
that,
but
I
I
think
I
got
the
question
I
think
to
be
fair.
I
think
I
did
address
it
yesterday
in
in
the
statement
I
gave
him
legislation,
but
I'm
happy
to
do
so
again.
I
think,
in
answer
to
anna
sarwar.
Yesterday
I
indicated
I
thought
there
was
probably
a
thin
line
and
I
suspect
you
and
I
would
agree
on
this
between
speculation
and
discussion.
B
B
I
think,
as
as
leaders-
and
you
know
we
are
all
in
in
our
communities-
leaders
elected
members
of
the
parliament,
I
think
we
have
to
be
careful
that
we
don't
stray
stray
too
far
into
speculation
and
that
we
accept
the
role
that
we
have
in
trying
to
create
the
right
atmosphere
so
that
everybody
can
comply
with
necessary
regulations.
I
I
don't
believe
that
for
a
moment
that
any
of
the
regulations
that
I've
been
coming
to
this
committee
with
are
in
any
sense,
superficial
or
unnecessary,
I
think
they
are
essential.
B
I
think
that
we
have
shown
more
than
willingness
to
discuss
them
very
openly.
I
think
there
is
room
for
ever
more
information
to
be
given
to
support
that
the
very
difficult
decisions
that
are
being
made
by
the
first
minister,
the
health
secretary,
her
advisors
and
and
the
cabinet,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
you
know
it
will
be
up
to
the
parliament
to
decide
whether
or
not
to
do
that.
So
I
think
we've
all
got
responsible,
and
I
know
you
know
you
as
a
responsible
person
and
convener.
B
A
Can
I
explore
two
matters
arising
from
that?
Firstly,
what's
your
your
view
of
at
what
point?
Does
the
r
number
mean
that
a
a
circuit
breaker
is
effective
and
secondly,
what's
the
time
frame
for
stricter
measures
like
a
circuit
breaker?
What's
the
optimum
time
frame,
if
you
want
to
make
any
significant
and
worthwhile
impact.
D
D
D
Unfortunately,
the
only
two
things
we
have
to
do
that
are
human
behavior
and
test
and
protect
test
and
trace
around
the
world.
So
if
you
can
take
a
moment
in
time,
the
modelers
have
done
that,
so
the
models
look
at.
Would
you
have
to
do
something
for
12
months
or
two
months
or
two
weeks,
and
what
do
you
get
depending
on
the
time
scale
and
the
nature
of
the
restrictions?
D
D
We
have
reached
the
edge
of
what
we
can
open
without
prevalence
rising
and
it
turns
out
he
was
correct.
The
numbers
across
the
whole
of
europe
350
000
last
week,
increased
deaths,
increased
hospitalizations
and
scotland,
unfortunately,
is
not
exempt.
So
now
we
have
a
real
challenge
in
what
we
do
next.
Do
we
do
national
restrictions
for
a
long
period?
Do
we
do
regional
restrictions
for
a
long
period?
Do
we
do
a
mixture
of
all
of
them?
D
Do
we
do
national,
perhaps
for
a
short,
sharp
period
to
get
that
prevalence
down
again
and
then
slowly
reopen
and
all
of
that
advice
from
gregor
fiona
and
I
from
the
chief
nurse
and
the
chief
medical
officer
feeds
into
economic
advice,
social
advice
into
mr
russell,
his
cabinet
colleagues
and
the
first
minister
to
decide
the
the
final
thing
I
would
say
is:
I
think
I
think
circuit
breaker
has
become
a
little
bit.
Iconic,
probably
unnecessarily
it
partly
because
we
were
asked
about
it
a
lot
and
we
had
to
respond
to
the
questions.
D
D
That's
the
basic
principle,
but
if
you
can
with
support
with
help
and
with
all
the
other
things
to
deal
with
economic
effects,
if
you
can
short
sharp,
reduce
the
prevalence
quickly
and
this
virus
works
in
two
to
three
week
chunks,
so
that
might
work
that
you
can
come
out
the
other
end
and
you
can
slowly
open
again.
That's
that's
the
scientific
principle.
A
B
B
If,
if
it's
for
adult
children
all
have
their
own
households,
for
example,
then
you
know
I
am
I'm
by
no
means
a
mathematical
genius,
but
it
does
occur
to
me
that
you
know
the
possibility
of
spread
is
multiplied
by
four
and
and
you
therefore
a
large,
even
an
even
larger
family.
You
get
into
that
situation
too.
So
I
think
you
have
to
be.
I
addressed
this
question.
B
I
think
the
last
time
I
was
a
committee
from
willy
coffee
who
had
asked
about
a
constituent
of
his
an
old
lady
who
had
two
friends
and
he
did
they
didn't
see
why
they
couldn't
sit
and
have
coffee
in
one
of
their
houses.
There
is
an
increased
danger.
There
will
be
an
increased
danger
and
you
know
jason
can
give
us
the
details
of
the
science
of
it.
B
But
it
is
a
plain
fact
that
the
more
people
are
involved
in
that
the
more
households
are
involved
in
that
the
more
the
risk
will
be-
and
I
I
accept
it-
is
it's
extremely
hard
and
every
constituency
msp
who
is
at
this
meeting
knows
that
there
will
be
cases
brought
to
them
which
are
even
more
heart-rending
and
even
more
difficult
to
deal
with.
But
there
are
some
facts
within
this
that
we
have
to
be
honest
about,
and
one
of
them
is
the
dangers
increase.
Each
time
an
additional
person
is
added
household.
D
And
some
emotion,
perhaps
before
I
do
the
scientific
fact,
I
don't
think
it's
an
exaggeration
convener
to
say
that,
amongst
a
series
of
impossible
pieces
of
advice,
the
the
two
pieces
of
advice
that
I
find
most
difficult
are
the
restrictions
on
visiting
in
care
homes
and
the
restrictions
on
people
visiting
each
other's
houses.
I
mean
it
is.
It
is
unprecedented
for
public
health
advisors
to
tell
decision
makers
in
a
country
that
you
cannot
visit
your
mum
or
your
children
have
your
four
adult
children
around.
D
So
I
have
enormous
sympathy
with
mr
hunter
people
in
my
own
family
write
me
letters
not
quite,
but
they
they.
They
outline
exactly
that
scenario
much
much
closer
to
me.
This
is
not
an
abstract
concept.
It
affects
your
family
affects
mr
russell's
family.
If
it's
mr
hunter's
family,
the
reality,
though,
is
that
every
time
two
separate
households
come
together,
there
is
risk
that
can
be
reduced
by
it
to
being
outdoors.
D
So
if
you
have
environments
where
people
are
indoors
warm
poorly,
ventilated,
perhaps
drop
their
guard
a
little,
perhaps
just
come
a
little
bit
too
close
together.
That's
where
we
see
sold
clusters
and
it
is
horrible.
It's
horrible
that,
let's
be
clear,
the
fault
is
with
the
virus,
not
not
not
with
the
instruction
and
the
advice,
it's
the
virus
that
causes
us
to
need
it,
and
I
want
it
removed
just
as
fast
as
it
can
be
removed.
But
the
numbers
just
now
do
not
allow
the
advice
to
change.
B
Can
I
can,
I
just
continue
to
make
an
additional
point.
We
have
recognized
some
of
those
difficulties
with
ensuring
that
there
is
the
concept
of
extended
families,
and
you
know-
and
that
has
been
helpful
to
some-
and
particularly
those
who
live
on
their
own,
and
that
is
an
important
element
within
it,
but
you
know
everything
that
can
be
done
to
edge
that
also,
you
know,
I
think
the
health
sector
indicated
last
week.
B
He
has
been
continuing
to
talk
to
the
relatives
of
those
in
care
homes
and
to
the
care
homes
themselves
about
how
visiting
can
change
and
develop
he'll.
This
is
not
static.
Everybody
is
trying
to
do
as
much
as
they
can,
but,
as
as
jason
has
indicated,
the
the
virus
is
not
static
too,
and
that
is
the
element
that
we
have
to
defeat.
A
Thank
you
for
that,
and
thank
you
for
that.
Last
point
I
mean
I
think
mr
hunter's
response
would
be
that
extended
households
can
only
be
formed
with
one
child.
I
think
that's
right
and
therefore
he
that
that
that,
just
in
his
particular
circumstances
that
doesn't
help
him
wait,
but
thank
you
very
much
for
those
answers.
Can
I
now
turn
to
the
deputy
convener's
questions.
Monica
lennon.
F
Please,
thank
you
can
be
there
good
morning,
everyone,
despite
the
regulations
that
we're
taking
evidence
on
today,
which
do
restrict
visiting
other
people's
homes
with
some
exceptions
and
the
the
curfew,
the
10
pm
curfew
on
hospitality.
The
cabinet
secretary
has
advised
that
we
are
in
a
deteriorating
situation.
B
B
You
know
as
fast
as
as
decision
making
and
some
might
argue
faster
than
decision
making
and
in
those
circumstances
you
have
to
react
to
where
you
are,
I
suppose,
in
the
sense
of
you
know,
you
have
to
engulfing
analogy,
play
the
ball
where
it
lies,
and
it
now
lies
where
it
is,
and
we
have
to
make
sure
that
we
are
equal
to
that.
But
could
I
ask
jason
perhaps
just
to
reiterate
what
and
to
rehearse
again
what
he
said
last
week,
because
I
think
it
was
an
important
contribution
to.
D
This,
it
again
is
exactly
my
answer
will
be
unsatisfactory,
it's
unsatisfactory
to
me
as
much
as
to
anybody
else.
The
modeling
is
exactly
that
this
is
modeling.
It's
now
based
on
more
real
numbers
than
it
was
in
march
and
april,
of
course,
because
because
we
have
more
numbers,
we
now
know
much
more
about
the
virus
internationally
and
locally.
In
scotland
we
we
know
where
it
spreads
where
it
likes
to
spread,
but
we
cannot
eliminate
that
completely.
D
D
We
are
hopeful
that
the
restrictions
that
this
committee
is
today
considering
will
bring
our
down
and
the
prevalence
down,
but
the
reality,
whether
I
like
it
or
not,
is
the
numbers
continue
to
rise.
Now
the
national
incident
management
team
looked
at
the
west
of
scotland
numbers.
Remember.
The
lannister
restrictions
have
not
been
for
that
long.
The
national
restrictions
haven't
been
in
for
that
long.
D
Two
weeks
or
so,
and
the
virus
has
an
incubation
period
of
7
to
14
days,
so
we're
only
in
one
incubation
period
and
that
wouldn't
show
the
numbers
suddenly
turn
the
corner,
and
in
the
middle
of
that
we
had
deposit
residence
outbreaks.
So
we've
considerable
work,
that's
going
on
in
her
higher
and
further
education.
D
The
acceleration
has
slowed
in
the
west
of
scotland,
but
the
numbers
are
still
high
and
I
we
get
worried
the
public
health
advice
is
when
we
see
numbers
on
700,
800
850,
and
that
concerns
us
and
that's
why.
The
advice
today
to
the
first
minister
in
the
cabinet
is
that
we
should
do
something
extra
which
you
we
will
hear
about
later
today.
F
Thank
you
both.
So
can
I
just
ask
then,
in
terms
of
the
restrictions
on
household
visiting
and
the
10
pm
curfew,
do
we
have
any
idea
how
effective
those
two
measures
have
been,
and
perhaps
you
can
see
a
bit
more
about
compliance?
No
one
was
expected
to
be
100,
but
what
do
we
know
in
terms
of
compliance,
and
can
you
see
a
bit
more
about
human
behavior
and
is
the
public
meeting
government's
expectations
at
the
present
time.
B
The
evidence
also
shows-
and-
and
you
know
I
mean
this-
is
evidence
that
you,
I
think,
needs
to
be
and
I'm
sure
will
be
made
available.
The
evidence
also
shows-
and
jason
can
no
doubt
talk
about
this
too.
The
evidence
also
shows
that
the
transmission
is,
as
he
has
said,
in
households,
and
that
is
that
is
the
area
to
speak
of
greatest
danger.
B
But
there
is
transmission
in
hospitality
and
licensed
premises
as
well,
and
wherever
people
gather
together,
where
there
is
ventilation
that
perhaps
isn't
quite
as
effective
as
as
it
might
be
elsewhere,
the
windows
aren't
open
or
or
there
isn't,
that
type
of
ventilation
where
people
like
the
disinhibiting
effect
of
of
alcohol
may
require
meaning
that
people
will
move
more
close
to
each
other.
They
would
otherwise
do
in
all
those
circumstances.
B
That
is
a
risk,
and
that
is
a
risk
that
creates
difficulties
under
figures.
Show
that
and
there
are
other
circumstances,
but
they
are
also
less
severe
you.
You
know
the
restrictions
that
exist
on
on
travel,
international
travel,
but
people
coming
in
that
was
an
element,
a
stronger
element
a
month
six
weeks
ago.
It's
not
as
strong
an
element
now,
but
it
is
still
obviously
an
element
in
there.
B
So
all
of
those
things
come
together
and
there's
a
judgment
there,
and
these
are
all
judgments
that
there
is
a
judgment
then
about
how
you
would
be
able
to
deal
with
those
as
the
the
places
in
which
there
is
maximum
risk
and
how
you
actually
move
on
from
there,
and
that
is
what
is
being
considered
now
at
the
end
of
the
day,
people
won't
accept
the
regulations.
They
won't
accept
the
guidance
they
get.
Then
there
has
to
be
some
ability.
B
D
I
think,
has
exceeded
my
expectations
and
if
you
look
at
our
polling
compared
to
the
international
numbers
that
that
messaging
and
understanding
of
the
people
has
gone
very
well
and
the
whole
say
the
they
have
six
things
that
you
have
to
do
to
come
out
of
of
the
pandemic.
Of
course,
some
of
them
are
prevalent
and
test
and
protect,
but
one
of
them
is
you
have
to
take
the
population
with
you.
There
is
no
point
if
you
have
to
regulate
not
by
consent
that
that
won't
work.
D
Now
that
doesn't
mean
there
aren't
300
people
house
parties
that
the
police
should
have
the
powers
to
break
up.
I
I
completely
support
that
on
the
edge
of
what
we're
doing,
but
the
vast
majority
is
about
bringing
the
people
with
you
explaining
to
them.
Why
not?
Just
what
and
I
and
many
others
have
spent
the
last
nine
months
trying
to
do
that
every
single
day
and
and
when
that
message
gets
undermined
in
whatever
way,
then
then
that
makes
that
job
slightly
more
difficult.
D
The
the
compliance
is
quite
difficult
to
give
a
number
for,
and
I
think
it
varies
depending
on
what
the
instruction
is.
The
polling
says
that
most
people
follow
the
follow
the
rules
when
we've
introduced
face
coverings.
People
have
done
that
people
now
wear
them
on
public
transport.
They
wear
them
in
shops.
In
the
main.
It's
not
it's,
not
100.
D
We,
we
did
have
some
challenges.
Some
of
the
uk
wide
polling
says
that
people
weren't
quarantining
when
they
came
from
overseas.
It
wasn't
exact
numbers
and
when
we
phone
people
and
when
we've
been
emailing
people,
people
have
in
the
main
been
compliant,
but
we
can't
know
that
for
sure
and
now
the
numbers
of
cases
that
have
come
from
international
travel
has
reduced
significantly.
D
That's
partly
a
result
of
the
school
holidays
being
over,
of
course,
but
we
have
to
continue
with
compliance
and
my
my
my
instinct
about
compliance
is
most
of
that
should
be
sector
driven
rather
than
police
driven.
So
hospitality
should
drive
most
of
that.
They
should
have
the
covert
officers.
They
should
speak
to
the
staff.
They
should
speak
to
the
customers
about
how
to
keep
that
area
safe,
that's
much
more
likely
to
work
than
if
we
send
in
police
into
hospitality
settings,
for
example,.
B
This
is
from
police
scotland's
website
the
dispersed
one
in
four
with
56
991,
so
those
are
people
who
who
perhaps
just
didn't
realize
dispersed,
but
when
instructed
14,
476
dispersed
using
reasonable
force,
492
issued
fixed
penalty
notice,
3600
3602
and
arrested
333,
and
I
wanted
just
to
quote
ian
livingston,
the
chief
constable,
who
said
the
great
majority
of
people
are
taking
personal
responsibility
to
do
the
right
thing,
but
he
went
on
this
is
specifically
about
house
parties,
but
it
applies
more
widely.
There
can
be
no
excuse
for
arranging
attending
or
hosting
a
house
party.
B
It's
against
the
law.
Where
officers
in
council
encounter
blatant,
willful
or
persistent
breaches.
We
will
take
the
size
of
action
to
enforce
the
law.
I
think
jason
leach
is
right.
It
is
self-policing,
it
is
self-regulation,
it
is
sector
driven,
but
in
the
end
there
are
penalties
for
breaches
of
law
and
that's
how
it
should
be.
F
G
My
first
question
is
about
the
household
restrictions
and
specifically
impacts
on
mental
health
and
well-being,
and
I
just
wonder
prior
to
them
being
introduced
what
assessment
was
made
of
likely
impacts
and
further
to
them
having
been
introduced,
what
all,
knowing
assessment
is
being
made?
Appreciating
it's
not
an
exact
science,
but
it
just
would
be
interesting
to
hear,
and
secondly,
what
what
will
progress?
Look
like
what
will
success?
Look
like.
I
was
interested
to
hear
professor
linda
bald
yesterday.
I
think
it
was
on
the
cocky
program.
G
At
the
same
time
as
that
was
introduced
for
indoor
mixing,
I
think
because
it
was
felt
interalia
that
it
would
be
an
ease
of
messaging,
but
because
we've
now
taken
away
that
indoor
possibility,
and
why
do
we
still
have
the
six
and
two
outdoor?
Would
that
not
be
a
possible
era,
even
though
the
weather
is
going
to
be
awful?
You
know
where
there's
a
well
there's
a
way,
and
that
may
be
helpful
to
folks
to
think
that
they
could
actually
meet
a
few
more
people
outdoors.
Thank
you.
B
Let
me
touch
on
those
and
then
ask
jason
to
come
in
and
again
fill
in
the
the
the
detail
in
terms
of
the
evidence.
I
don't
think
there
is
any
doubt
that
what
did
in
the
end,
the
decisions
are
about
our
balance
of
harms
balance
of
risks,
societal
harm,
individual
harm,
economic
harm,
health
harm,
and
it
is
balancing
those-
and,
I
think,
we're
all
very
of
the
mental
health
arm.
B
But
the
ultimate
harm
is,
you
know,
people
die
of
of
of
of
this,
and
that
is
you
know,
a
harm
from
which
there
cannot
be
recovery
in
every
other
harm,
and
one
of
the
issues
is:
can
mitigation,
mitigating
circumstances
or
actions
be
taken.
So
it
is
the
balance
of
harms,
and
we
are
very
very
aware
at
the
moment
of
decision
on
this.
What
the
balance
of
harms
are.
B
That
cabinet
met
yesterday
and
indeed
met
again
this
morning,
and
you
know
that
is
an
issue
that
is
never
far
from
any
of
our
minds
and
I
knew
absolutely
not
far
from
from
the
first
ministers
and
health
secretaries
minds.
These
are
really
really
important
issues,
and
you
know
success
will
look
like
getting
ourselves
through
and
beyond
this
into
some
new
normal.
B
Now,
whether
that
is
dependent
upon
there
being
a
vaccine
or
not
you
know
is,
is
clearly
a
major
issue,
but
success
means
getting
there
with
also
the
minimum
damage
to
our
fellow
citizens
in
each
of
those
areas
of
harm,
and
you
know
unfortunately
massively
regrettably,
there
will
be
harm
in
each
of
those
areas.
How
can
we
minimize
those
harms,
and
how
can
we
get
ourselves
through
these
circumstances,
which
are
unique?
B
In
our
experience
I
mean
no,
no
scottish
government,
no
no
government
in
living
memory
has
had
to
face
these
circumstances
in
precisely
this
way
in
this
difficult
way,
and
it
is
therefore
balancing
those
harms
that
are
the
real
issue
in
terms
of
the
outdoor
consideration
I
I've
had
this
argued,
I
think
you
know
it
is
again
minimizing
harm,
reducing
numbers
and
making
sure
that
you
without
outdoors,
which
is
you,
know
a
safer
environment
than
indoors
in
these
matters.
There
is
more
flexibility
and
more
ability,
but
again
jason
may
wish
to
say
more
about
that.
D
There's
a
there's
a
great
deal
in
these
in
these
two
questions:
we're
seeing
and
and
and
they're
they're
excellent
questions.
So
let
me
just
reassure
you
first
of
all
that
mental
health
overlay
mental
health
considerations
are
never
far
from
as
miss
hockey.
The
minister
for
mental
health
is
often
in
these
conversations.
D
We
have
a
senior
medical
officer
whose
only
job
is
to
bring
us
the
mental
health
data
and
the
mental
health
considerations
of
these
decisions.
Not
somebody
who
you
would
know
prominently
in
the
media,
but
somebody
who
is
in
a
lot
of
this
decision
making
for
us.
We
have
the
same
for
each
of
the
medical
specialties
and
other
healthcare
specialties.
You
would
expect
one
of
the
reasons
for
the
exemptions
to
the
indoor
rule
around
informal
child
care.
Non-Cohabiting
couples
extended,
households
for
single
people
and
those
who
just
live
with
children
is
exactly
that.
D
Other
countries
have
done
more
extended
bubbles.
We
we
have
looked
at
that
a
couple
of
times
with
the
modeling.
I
I
don't
think
that's
a
ridiculous
idea.
I
I
I
don't
think
the
prevalence
just
now
is
the
right
time
to
do
that.
But
if
you
got
to
a
point
where
your
prevalence
was
very
low,
then
that
might
be
something
scotland
would
would
think
of,
and
we
have
thought
about
that
a
couple
of
times
before
and
we've
rejected
it
for
risk
reasons.
Not
for
any
other
reasons.
D
Your
success
question
is
of
course,
excellent.
Final
success
is
what
mr
russell's
just
dead.
Science
will
will
get
us
out
of
this,
and
crowds
will
come
back
to
stadia
and
we'll
be
back
out
in
restaurants,
and
the
pubs
will
be
full.
I
have
absolutely
no
doubt
that
that
will
come
there
is.
There
is
hope,
I
don't
know
when
it
will
be.
D
I
think
the
most
likely
scenario
for
that
to
begin
is
the
spring
of
2021
and
into
the
summer
of
2021,
but
I
I
don't
know
that
for
sure
the
the
the
kind
of
medium
term
success
around
what
we
might
do
around
levels,
which
is
what
you're
describing
in
germany
the
republic
of
ireland
have
just
done
a
similar
thing.
We
are
in
consultation
across
the
whole
of
the
uk,
the
the
first
minister,
the
cabinet
secretary
for
health
and
the
advisors
talking
to
the
other
countries
about
a
levels-based
system.
There
are
attractions
to
that.
It's
very
clear.
D
D
I
have
to
tell
you,
though,
that
today
we
would
be
breaking
through
most
of
those
levels.
You've
heard
us
talk
about
20
per
100
000
when
we
restricted
people
coming
from
greece
or
france.
Most
of
our
local
authorities
are
now
over
50
per
hundred
thousand,
so
the
levels
thing
only
works
if
you're
in
quite
low
numbers
and
we're
not
we're
at
quite
high
numbers.
G
G
H
Good
good
morning,
everyone
I
want
to
just
go
back
to
the
the
theme
that
monica
lennon
was
touching
on
around
public
consent,
and
I
think
the
first
minister
said
myself
were
entering
into
quite
a
tricky
period
in
maintaining
those
levels
of
of
a
public
support,
and
I
guess
just
a
sense
of
weariness.
So
how?
H
How
do
we
do
that?
And
obviously
it's
not
just
government's
role
to
do
that,
but
for
us
all
to
have
a
part
in
doing
that,
and
is
there
any
evidence
that
the
public's
understanding
has
been
affected
in
any
way
because
of
the
local
variations
in
terms
of
we've
gone
from
a
consistent
one
message
to
through
you
know
different,
look
different
local
measures,
and
is
that
impacting
on
the
public's
understanding?
H
And
are
you
testing
that
and
on
monica
lennon's
point
about
compliance,
there
used
to
be
a
percentage
figure
that
was
used
in
the
early
days
that
had
to
be
reached
in
order
for
these
measures
to
be
effective?
Is
there
still
a
a
percentage
compliance
figure
that
the
scottish
government
works
to
in
order
to
you
know
be
assured
that
enough
people
are
adhering
to
enough
of
the
measures
in
order
to
ensure
that
the
they're
being
as
effective
as
you
would
need
them
to
be.
B
B
Politics
works
its
way
into
to
everything,
but
all
of
us,
as
representatives
also
know
that
people
want
to
hear
the
truth
and
they
want
to
see
people
working
together
to
try
and
solve
what
is
the
most
extraordinarily
difficult,
complex,
problematic
period,
distressing
period
that
we
have
ever
been
through.
So
you
know
I've
answered
the
question
back
to
members
of
this
committee.
B
That's
an
e
that
we
haven't
used.
They
can
be
enlightened
about
the
purpose
for
that,
and
I
I
do
support
very
much
the
publication
of
more
information
and
the
matter,
the
grace
of
the
sd
by
monica
lennon
and
other
members
of
the
chamber,
the
publication
of
more
information
that
tells
people
how
essential
and
necessary
this
is
in
terms
of
the
second
part
of
the
question.
Perhaps
jason
leach
would
be
best
placed
to
answer
it.
D
I
I
agree
completely
with
mr
russell
around
the
clear
messaging
frankly,
miss
robinson,
the
23rd
of
march,
was
easier
for
the
public
health
advisors
than
the
7th
of
october.
It
is
much
easier
to
tell
the
country
to
stay
at
home.
The
messaging
is
clear,
not
not
the
actual
message.
Of
course
it's
much
much
harder,
as
as
the
message
gets
more
complex
and
more
nuanced.
D
D
It
was
slightly
easier
when
the
message
was
stay
at
home
and
we
could
count
the
number
of
people
on
public
transport.
We
could
count
the
number
of
people
who
were
literally
at
home
and
only
going
to
the
supermarket
or
exercise
once
a
day
now,
because
some
workplaces
are
back,
some
sport
is
back
some
con.
Some
kids
stuff
is
back
that
that
single.
D
This
is
how
many
people
are
using
public
transport.
This
is
how
many
people
at
home
becomes
much
more
difficult,
so
we
have
to
be
slightly
cleverer
about
compliance
around
our
polling
data
around
house
parties
around
how
many,
how
many
pubs
are
managing
to
keep
the
distance.
All
of
those
things
which
we've
discussed
earlier.
H
Bluntly,
I
guess
it's
just
an
opportunity
for
jason
leach
to
really
tell
us
whether
you
know
the
overwhelming
consensus
among
the
medical
and
scientific
community
is
still
that
this
requires
an
interventionist
approach
in
order
to
contain
virus.
I
think
it
concerns
me
that
there
could
be
a
perception
given
to
the
public
that
somehow
the
scientific
and
medical
community
are
are
all
completely
disagreed
about
the
way
forward.
On
this,
it
would
be
helpful
to
hear
jason
leach's
view
on
that.
D
So
the
headline
answer
is
the
mainstream
scientific
advice
from
around
the
world
is
that
this
virus
remains
a
major
threat
to
global
public
health
and
individual
lives.
You
can
go
from
the
whole
through
the
european
centre
for
disease
control
to
the
governments
of
europe
or
the
governments
of
southeast
asia,
and
you
can
find
that
same
message.
You
will
not
find
a
country,
a
whole
country
that
has
veered
from
that
very
very
much.
There
are
nuances.
Sweden
is
often
the
one
quoted
to
me.
I
said
to
the
chief
executive
of
swedish
healthcare.
D
People
are
telling
me
you
didn't
lock
down,
and
he
said
no,
no,
we
locked
down.
We
just
have
a
very
compliant
population.
We
didn't
have
to
put
it
in
law,
so
so
every
country
in
the
world
is
doing
the
same
thing
now.
What
is
happening,
of
course,
is
scientific.
Disagreement
is
playing
out
in
the
public
eye
because
it
is
a
global
pandemic.
So
my
world
of
head
and
neck
surgery,
we've
always
had
scientific
and
clinical
disagreement,
but
it
happens
on
the
pages
of
journals
and
nobody
ever
reads
it
except
us
this.
D
This
one
is
playing
out
from
the
british
medical
journal
to
the
today
program
to
gms,
and
I
I
think,
that's
okay.
As
long
as
there
is
balance
in
the
reporting
and
balance
in
the
messaging
and
the
public
health,
the
mainstream
public
health
message
is
heard.
I
I
have
no
difficulty
with
being
held
to
account
for
that
advice,
none
at
all,
but
but
we
need
to
be
careful,
some
of
the
more
extreme
versions
of
let's
just
just
let
this
virus
fly
base
coverings,
don't
work
distancing
is
nonsense.
D
I
think
that
that
that
needs
control,
that
that
really
really
needs
a
very
strong
other
voices
to
to
make
sure
that
that
isn't
heard
by
by
too
many
people
in
the
country.
But
that
doesn't
mean
that
the
disagreements
between
public
health
professionals
about
exactly
what
restrictions
you
should
have
or
the
timing
of
those
restrictions
that
is
healthy
in
the
scientific
community.
E
Yeah
thanks
convina
and
morning,
everybody
you've
written
to
the
committee
identifying
those
root
map,
changes
which
are
on
under
constant
review
at
the
moment
and
just
looking
at
the
list
here.
One
of
them
is,
is
around
contact
sports
for
people
age
12
years
and
over
indoors
now,
there's,
obviously
a
a
range
of
circumstances
that
can
change,
but
one
of
those
which
is
foreseeable
is
that
the
weather
is
going
to
change
the
weather's
already
changing
as
a
look
outside
the
window.
E
B
Well,
I
I
I
make
two
points.
One
is
the
weather
is
a
very,
very
substantial
disincentive,
but
it's
not
a
complete
disincentive
in
scotland
for
outdoor
activity
during
the
winter,
but
you
know
I
accept
that
it
is
not
nearly
as
desirable
as
as
in
other
times
of
the
year.
The
second
one
is,
you
know
quite
clearly
the
advice
that
the
cabinet
secretary
for
education
will
have.
This
is
germaine
to
it.
B
I
think
it
would
be
most
helpful
to
you,
mr
ruskell,
if
I
was
to
ask
for
that
to
be,
you
know
to
be
shared
with
you
for
him
to
be
in
touch
with
you
about
it.
I
think
it
will
create
difficulties,
but
he
really
is
the
person
that
should
respond
to
you.
On
that
I
I
would
just
caution
against
the
view
that
there
would
be
an
absolute
impossibility
of
outdoor
sport
during
the
winter.
B
There's
a
legal
requirement
for
a
certain
amount
of
outdoor
space
for
for
primary
schools.
It's
a
it's
something
I
I
happen
to
know
as
a
foreign
education
secretary,
so
it
may
be
maybe
constrained
and
difficult.
I
do
accept
that,
but
there
is
there
is
there
is
there
should
be
anyway,
some
outdoor
space
for
every
primary
school.
D
I
I
was
going
to
actually
I'd
add
two
things.
One
is,
I
think
we
should
write
to
you
actually,
because
I'm
not
aware
of
that.
I
can't
keep
up,
if
I'm
honest
with
all
of
the
regulation
and
all
of
the
advice
there's
just
simply
too
much
of
it
to
keep
on
top
of
it
every
single
day
that
so
I
think
we
should
write
to
you
about
the
detail
of
that
particular
thing.
You
asked
about
so
get
us
that
and
we'll
get
back
to
you.
It
might.
D
My
principal
advice
is
children
is
safer,
outdoor
is
safer,
but
indoor
contact
support
for
kids
has
been
allowed.
So
so
we
think
in
the
round
that
that
that
is
as
safe
to
do
as
some
other
things,
and
I
I
like
you,
I'm
very
keen
to
allow
that
to
happen
for
physical
activity
for
mental
well-being
for
all
the
other
things
we
we
we
know
about
outdoor
contact
sport
allowed
for
all
ages
at
this.
At
this
point-
and
that
was
a
that
was
a
big
step,
particularly
for
adults,
because
that
is
a
risky
area.
E
I
think
that
would
be
very
welcome,
because
the
guidance
was
issued
this
week
5th
of
october.
I
think
it
was
in
relation
to
that,
so
it's
certainly
being
interpreted
by
primary
schools
that
they
can't
do
indoor
contact
sports.
If
I
could
move
on
to
something
which
is
in
the
regulations
and
that's
the
10
pm
curfew,
I'm
just
wondering
how
we're
actually
monitoring
the
effectiveness
of
that
I
used
to
sit
on
a
licensing
board
and
there
was
always
a
concern
around
having
an
early
closing
time.
Because
what
can
happen?
E
Is
you
get
a
big
surge
of
people
at
chucking
out
time?
You
know
moving
through
licensed
premises
to
the
exit
congregating
at
taxi
ranks,
kebab
shops
and
everything
else.
Obviously,
that
causes
an
issue
in
terms
of
alcohol
licensing
and
the
duties
that
you
need
to
consider
on
that
side,
but
I'm
wondering
what
the
knock-on
effects
might
be
of
that
in
terms
of
covid.
E
Could
he
have
people
then
going
on
to
house
parties
after
is
at
that
10
p.m?
So
I'm
just
wondering:
how
are
we
monitoring
this?
Is
there
a
role
here
for
licensing
standards?
Officers
is
that
the
police
is
at
the
licensing
trade
themselves
saying.
Actually
this
is
working
fine
or
we're
having
trouble
enforcing
social
distancing,
because
there's
a
huge
number
of
people
are
just
leaving
at
10
o'clock.
B
Well,
can
I
make
it
clear
that
you
know
the
only
counter
to
that
argument
in
terms
of
what
would
happen
at
ten
o'clock
is
no
closing
hours
at
all,
because
the
same
as
it
holds
two
at
eleven
o'clock,
it
would
hold
true
at
nine
o'clock.
There
are
issues
of
people
exiting
premises.
You
know
at
any
time
and
congregating
together
when
those
premises
are
closed,
and
it
is,
as
jason
has
said
earlier,
on
the
first
and
best.
You
know,
monitoring
and
support
of
this
comes
from
the
sector
and
the
trade
itself.
B
The
section
of
trade
itself
want
its
customers
to
be
healthy
and,
to
you
know,
continue
to
be
available
as
customers,
so
they
will
want
to
make
sure
that
the
regulations
work,
and
that
means
making
sure
that
you
know
everything
they
can
do
in
terms
of
social
distancing
and
enforcing
social
distancing
and
and
regulating
this
is
taken.
But
then
you
know
there
is
a
legal
imperative.
E
B
This
is
for
individuals,
safety.
Nobody
wishes
to
to
to
be
infected
by
the
virus,
given
the
the
consequences
that
can
exist
even
for
younger
people,
as
we
know.
So,
in
these
circumstances
you
know
individuals
who
are
in
public
houses
at
your
closing
time
need
to
make
sure
that
they
keep
themselves
safe.
That
we've
also
you'll
increase
the
requirement
to
wear
face
coverings
when
moving
about
when
not
at
a
table
and
not
consuming
alcohol
or
or
or
any
drink
or
or
food,
and
that
is
an
important
part
of
it
as
well.
B
Still,
you
know
on
a
circle
of
of
of
monitoring.
The
circle
of
monitoring
starts
where
you
are
with
yourself
and
then
the
circle
of
monitoring
and
observance
spreads
out,
and
there
are
lots
and
lots
of
rings
in
that
circle,
but
the
best
ring
in
that
circle
is
is
a
central
one.
You
know
it
is
up
to
you,
you
should
keep
yourself
safe
and
the
regulations
and
the
guidance
are
there
for
that
purpose.
E
B
I
think
it
is
very
much
our
intention
to
try
and
make
sure
that
not
only
are
people
safe,
but
people
can
do
as
much
as
possible
and
therefore
you
know
the
differentiation
between
those
who
are
shielding
the
general
population.
We've
tried
to
to
to
make
sure
that
as
much
participation
as
possible
can
take
place.
D
D
We
know
which
patients
differ
most
from
this
virus
and
that
that
list
has
changed
actually
quite
significantly
since
march.
We
know,
for
example,
that
obesity
is
now
a
major
problem
for
this
virus.
We
know
that
heart
failure
and
diabetes
are
more
risky
than
we
thought
they
would
be
for
a
respiratory
virus,
and
still
there
are
spiritual
diseases
and
the
principal
risk
is
still
age.
So
any
graph
that
you
see
the
principal
risk
factor
involved
is
still
age.
Unfortunately,
and
there's
nothing,
we
can
do
about
those
risk
factors.
D
D
That
means
that
the
the
information
and
advice
to
the
let's
call
them
the
at-risk
group
should
change
over
time,
and
I
I
don't
support
our
return
to
full
shielding,
nor
does
gregor.
We
don't
think
we
should
do
that
again.
The
social
costs
of
shielding
are
too
high,
but
we
do
think
that
that
at-risk
group
should
have
as
much
information
as
we
can
give
them
in
order
for
them
to
adjust
their
behavior
their
family,
to
adjust
their
behavior
and
etc,
etc.
D
That
this
week,
public
health,
scotland
changed
their
dashboard
to
be
able
to
be
much
more
local.
So
you
can
now
see
in
your
even
below
your
postcode
level.
I
think
about
4
000
addresses
you
can
now
see
very
low,
very
good
numbers,
so
colleagues
in
a
nursery
town
could
now
look
very
specifically
about
their
risk
of
going
to
the
supermarket
or
their
risk
of
going
to
meet
somebody
outdoors,
and
they
may
make
individual
choices
about
family
and
friends.
Depending
on
that,
it's
just
one
element.
D
The
other
place
where
the
at-risk
group
is
crucial
is
in
the
workplace
and
one
of
the
innovations
is.
There
is
now
a
risk
assessment.
Individual
risk
assessment
online
that
you
can
do
either
as
an
an
occupational
health
department,
an
hr
department
or
you
as
an
employee,
can
do
it
well.
It
won't
give
you
a
score
out
of
10,
it's
not
as
exact
as
that,
but
it
will
give
you
some
understanding
of
your
own
risk
and
your
employer.
I
That's
really
very,
very
helpful.
Thank
you
both
for
answering
that
question.
I
wonder
if
I
could
ask
another
one:
it's
really
about
the
increasing
numbers
that
we've
been
seeing
for
the
last
week
or
so
is
there
any
analysis
on
how
the
virus
is
being
transmitted
within
these
greater
numbers,
or
is
that
something
that
we
might
have
to
wait
until
later
on
today
to
hear
more
about
it's
a
question
that
the
public
are
asking
me
like:
where
is
it
rising
and
how
is
it
rising
over
recently.
B
I
D
I
would,
I
would
simply
tell
you,
mr
coffee,
that
that
it's
not
an
exact
science,
unfortunately
and
test
and
protect
interviews
every
positive
case,
so
we
don't
have
causation,
but
we
have
association.
So
we
know
where
people
have
been.
We
know
they've
been
at
the
greek
islands
or
they've
been
in
manchester
or
they've
been
in
aberdeen,
and
we
know
if
they've
been
in
a
pub
a
restaurant
or
a
family
home.
What
you
can't
always
do
is
if
they
were
in
greece,
then
in
a
pub
on
the
way
home
and
then
went
to
see
their
mum.
D
You
can't
tell
exactly
where
the
virus
came
from.
We
can
sometimes
do
that
with
genomic
studies
with
genetic
studies,
but
that
takes
a
long
time
and
we,
but
we
know
that
the
virus
spreads
and
poorly
ventilated,
close
together
crowds.
So
it
doesn't
take
that
much
of
a
public
health
degree
to
work
out
where
that
might
happen.
D
We
know
that
about
40
percent
of
positive
cases,
report
social
interaction
approach
approximately,
and
we
know
that
a
reducing
number
into
the
low
single
digits
now
report
international
travel,
for
example,
so
that
allows
us
to
decide
where
we
should
restrict
and
what
we
should
or
what
advice
we
should
give
to
those
who
make
the
decisions
about
those
restrictions,
but
we're
hoping
to
publish
more
evidence
on
that
question
today
and
that
will
go
to
the
most
common
question.
We
ask
we
get
asked,
which
is.
Why
can
I
do
this
and
not
do
this.
I
That's
very
helpful
as
well.
Thank
you
both
for
that.
I'm
just
my
last
question.
If
I
may,
on
one
of
my
favorite
subject
football
officially,
he
mentioned
the
area
and
you
mentioned
germany,
then,
first
of
all,
where
are
we
in
the
virus
in
germany
compared
to
scotland,
because
we
do
note
and
constituents
tell
me
that
they
have
managed
to
reopen
some
of
their
football
stadiums
and
admit
supporters
in
limited
numbers.
D
Thank
you
thanks,
mr
coffee.
This
has
been
very
prominent
as,
as
you
know,
football
supporters
always
choose
germany.
They
never
choose
spain
where
the
stadia
are
shut
and
the
numbers
are
rising.
They
never
choose
england
who
have
gone
backwards
and
closed
even
their
pilot
events.
So,
depending
on
which
argument
you
wish
to
make,
you
can
choose
your
appropriate
country.
I
I
can
do
that
too.
Of
course,
I
I
I
plead
guilty
to
to
to
doing
that.
D
I
don't
think
that's
a
stupid
idea.
I
think
that's
a
good
idea,
but
also
as
we
did
with
our
pilot
stadia
doing
local
travel
only
no
away
fans
all
the
things
you
would
expect,
keep
away
the
at-risk
people
we've
just
described
and
that's
where
we
were
headed
and
we
good
relationships
with
the
spfl.
Mr
fitzpatrick
met
them
again
yesterday,
principally
about
financial
support,
but
in
the
background
there
is
always
getting
the
crowds
back,
particularly
to
the
lower
league
clubs,
who
really
rely
on
that
relatively
small
crowd
to
to
get
financial
sustainability
for
smaller
clubs.
D
We're
very
mindful
of
that
just
now
because
of
the
prevalence,
it
is
not
safe.
We
don't
think
to
do
that
when
it
is
safe.
To
do
that,
I
will
be
a
big
advocate
for
for
doing
so,
and
there
are
a
number
of
other
advocates
in
cabinet
and
in
the
public
health
advisors
that
I
promise
you,
mr
coffee,
fight,
that
good
fight,
okay,.
J
J
What
steps
can
be
taken
to
try
and
alleviate
this
issue
because,
obviously
we're
dealing
with
people
who
may
have
help
underlying
health
problems,
and
obviously
this
is
a
concern
but
we're
putting
them
it's
a
severe
disadvantage
and
particularly
in
relation
to
their
mental
health
state.
I'd.
Ask
you
to
comment
on
that,
maybe
jason
leach.
You
might
like
to
make
a
comment
on
that.
D
So
it
takes
me
back
to
my
emotion
question
mr
corey
you're
absolutely
right.
This
is
this
is
probably
the
toughest
the
toughest
group
and
the
the
toughest
pieces
of
advice
we've
had
to
give
not
only
for
care
homes,
but
for
those
remember,
there
are
more
older
people
receiving
care
at
home
than
there
are
receiving
care
in
care
homes.
The
challenge
here,
of
course,
is
that
that
is
exactly
the
group
who
are
most
at
risk
of
of
this
particular
virus.
D
So
there
is
a
horrible
balance
in
there
of
risk
from
the
virus
risk
from
loneliness,
and
I
have
friends
and
family
members
in
exactly
that
position,
as
I'm
sure
you
and
others
on
this
committee
do
as
well
what
those
individuals
are
allowed
to
have
an
extended
household
that
doesn't
have
to
be
a
family
member.
That
could
be
a
anybody.
It
has
to
be
restricted
to
just
that
that
restricted
household
that
is
a
extended
household,
so
you're
allowed
to
do
that
with
friends,
not
just
family.
D
You
are
allowed
to
go
to
cafes
and
and
be
distanced.
You
are,
and
I
know
a
lot
of
people
find
local
cafes,
a
huge
lifeline
for
for
that
group
of
older
people,
so
you
can
meet
your
pal
there
or
go
with
your
family
there.
I
I
hope
that
we
will
be
able
to
remove
the
indoor
restriction
just
as
fast
as
we
possibly
can,
because
I
know
some
older
people
will
be
scared
to
go
out
scale
to
do
that
and
they
would
much
rather
receive
individual
visitors.
D
J
Yeah,
I
think
kavina,
yes
and
exactly.
Thank
you,
professor
leech,
on
that,
because
I
think
is
that
last
point
about
the
that
they're
being
frightened
to
go
out
is
is
a
big
question.
It
brings
me
on
to
this
other
question
about
flu
vaccinations
for
our
older
people,
and
particularly
those
who
are
in
the
range
that
that
are
entitled
to
have
it.
J
Now,
I'm
getting
on
from
my
constituents
issues
about
the
fear
of
going
out
even
to
get
that
vaccination
and
question
about
more
publicity
to
make
sure
that
these
marquees,
because
I
mean
you
know,
people
are
having
them
in
marquees
and
in
schools
and
not
in
the
medical
centers.
Obviously,
various
reasons
there
is
a
fear
running
around.
What
are
you
doing
to
counteract
that?
To
make
sure
these
people
do
go
out
and
attend
and
have
their
vaccinations
and
again,
professor
leach,
maybe
not
to
comment
on
that.
D
Again,
I'm
hearing
the
I'm
hearing
the
same
thing:
the
couple
of
a
couple
of
things
around
the
challenges
here,
not
not
to
excuse
it,
but
just
to
underline
the
challenge:
we're
trying
to
vaccinate
two
and
a
half
million
people,
the
most
we've
ever
tried
to
vaccinate
and
the
vaccine
can't
all
be
done
on
the
same
tuesday
for
the
whole
population,
just
as
logistically
impossible.
So
it
has
to
be
starved
and
it
has
to
be
in
places
where
we
can
take
more
people
than
previously.
D
We
can't
put
all
of
that
onto
gps
because
that's
all
they
would
do
they
would
have
to
stop
doing
everything
else.
In
some
places
the
gp
practices
can
do
it
small,
more
rural,
more
local.
So
we
have
had
to
ask
the
primary
care
environments,
the
health
boards
to
think
a
little
bit
more.
So
some
people
are
using
a
not
not
quite
the
football
stadia,
but
the
the
conference
rooms
within
the
football
stadium
to
do
it.
Some
people
are
doing
it
outdoors,
so
we
need
patience
there
isn't
that
much
flu
circulating.
D
Yet
it's
the
7th
of
october.
The
flu
season
is
beginning
we're
not
in
the
peak
of
it,
so
there
is
time
so
people
don't
all
have
to
panic
and
get
the
virus
by
friday
get
the
excuse
me
get
the
vaccine
by
friday,
but
we
do
want
people
vaccinated
as
fast
as
we
can.
I
I
do
see
on
social
media
and
in
correspondence
with
me
some
people
who
are
queuing
up
outside
in
the
cold
in
the
way-
and
I
I
don't
like
that,
any
more
than
them
or
the
news.
D
So
I
there
have
been
some
teething
troubles,
particularly
prominently
in
fife
in
the
media.
We've
corrected
some
of
that.
I've
stepped
up
new
people
extra
people
extra
places,
but
it
is
a
huge
logistical
exercise
and
nothing
to
the
logistical
exercise.
We're
then
going
to
have
for
a
covered
vaccine
which
we'll
hopefully
get
in
the
first
half
of
of
next
year.
So
we're
sympathetic
to
that.
We
want
to
hear
from
people
who
are
struggling
with
that
access
and
parliamentarians
are
one
of
the
ways
we
get
access
to
that
kind
of
intelligence.
J
Right,
thank
you
for
that
president.
Can
I
ask
one
more
final
question
convina
and
it's
on
the
question
about
the
sales
of
alcohol
in
the
off
sales
set
off
sales
sector?
That's
obviously
retail
supermarkets
and
shops
and
licenses
has
any
big
consideration
being
given
to
moving
the
the
the
ceasing
sales
of
alcohol
to
back
to
nine
o'clock
every
evening
on
the
evenings.
J
B
Quite
clearly,
all
options
would
be
on
the
table
and
and
remain
on
the
table.
Of
course,
in
terms
of
you
know,
additional
actions
which
the
government
may
have
to
to
take
a
ten
o'clock
figure
was
seen
as
not
being
unduly
restrictive
in
terms
of
of
of
of
people's
socialization
and
and
access
to
pubs,
but
equally
reduced
the
issue
of
of
of
night
time
that
the
night
economy,
which
had
been
associated
with
some
difficulties
elsewhere.
B
I
think
we
remain
mr
cartier
alert
to
other
options
and
quite
clearly,
some
of
those
will
need
to
be
taken.
You
if
I
may
say
this
not
disrespectfully
to
you,
you
and
I
are
both
old
enough
to
remember
10
o'clock
closing
when
we
were
much
much
younger.
Maybe
there
was
an
element
of
10
o'clock
closing
that
came
back
into
this,
but
I
I
certainly
never
thought
to
see
it
again,
obviously
remain
flexible
on
the
matter.
C
Thank
you
convener
good
morning
panel,
just
as
a
couple
of
questions,
I
want
to
go
back
on
to
the
question
of
the
10
pm
licensing
when
the
regulations
were
being
put
together.
Was
there
any
consideration
to
having
potentially
two
times
maybe
a
potential
nine
o'clock
and
also
ten
o'clock
because
come
back
to
one
of
the
questions
from
earlier
when
you
have
the
pubs
and
the
social
clubs
and
the
social
clubs
for
marley
will
be
a
place
where
older
people
go
to
that's
compared
to
pops.
C
When
you
have
everyone
come
out
at
the
same
time,
it
would
then
make
it
harder
for
people
to
get
public
transport
and
get
taxis
get
back
home
here.
So
if
there
were
two
times,
then
it
could
allow
all
the
people
to
get
the
taxi
tax
to
trade,
to
get
more
than
one
fare,
and
also
then
to
have
the
the
second
where
people
come
out
and
say,
10
o'clock
that
consideration
here.
B
Well,
in
response
I
think,
to
an
earlier
question:
you
know
I
made
it
very
clear,
I
think
from
mark
ruskall,
you
know
whatever
time
you
said
there
will
be
people
coming
on
to
the
streets.
You
know
and-
and
I
think
whatever
time
you
set-
there
will
be
competition
on
the
streets,
for
whatever
services
are
available,
whether
it
be
a
kebab
or
a
taxi.
I
just
think
that's
unavoidable
and
I
go
back
to
individual
responsibility.
It
is.
B
B
C
Thank
you.
It
just
bible
actually
takes
more
to
the
second
question,
actually
regarding
us
at
the
with
the
regulations
with
the
increasing
number
of
people
been
allowed
to
attend,
neurals
and
wakes,
which
I
think
has
been
warmly
welcomed,
but
on
the
issue
of
the
of
people
attending
churches
also
also,
the
limit
is
at
50,
but
also
all
chapters
all
come
in
all
shapes
and
sizes.
B
That
there
has
been,
and
of
course,
continues
to
be
dialogued
with
the
faith
groups
and-
and
I
think
that's
entirely
normal,
and
I
know
there
is
an
argument
that
you
know
a
cathedral
is
different
from
you
know
a
small
parish
church
I
mean
there
are
actually
very
small
cathedrals
that
point
to
the
cathedral
of
the
isles,
but
you
know
the
point
is
is
taken.
I
think
we
also
have
to
have
regulations
are
easy
to
understand
and
easy
to
implement
and
if
we
were
to,
you
know,
undertake
an
exercise
to
grade
through
capacity
every
single
church.
B
You
know,
I
think
we
have
been
some
difficulty.
Nobody
wants
there
to
be
continued
restriction
on
congregational
worship
or
anything
of
that
nature,
but
you
know
I
I
really
think
given
where
we
are,
what
we
described
as
a
deteriorating
situation.
This
would
not
be
the
time
to
say.
Let
us
you
know,
relax
further.
What
what
exists?
I
mean
jason
lee
to
the
very
beginning
of
this
referred
to
to
larry
whitney's
point
about.
You
know
on
the
edge
of
what
you
could
relax.
You
look
at
the
figures.
B
C
B
As
as
jesus
indicated,
you
know
joe
fitzpatrick
met
with
the
representatives,
you
know
this
week.
There
used
to
be
dialogue,
but
you
know
I
go
back
to
this
basic
point.
You'll
we
are
where
we
are
at
the
present
moment.
The
figures
speak
for
themselves.
You
know
the
first
minister
will
be
making
a
statement
later
today.
I
I
think
if,
as
leaders
and
I
go
back
to
that
theme,
I've
been
using
you
know
throughout
it,
as
leaders
in
communities.
We
also
have
to
be
very
straight
with
people.
B
You
know
if
they
see
themselves
the
danger
we
are
in,
they
see
themselves
the
figures
that
are
being
produced
on
a
daily
basis.
You
know
they
they,
I
am
sure,
recognize
that,
and
those
in
leadership
positions
need
to
recognize
that
you
know
to
have
a
conversation
now
about
relaxing
restrictions,
you
know
is,
is
I
I
think
you
just
have
to
say
it.
It
is
going
in
the
wrong
direction.
A
Thank
you
very
much.
Can
I
thank
the
cabinet
secretary
and
his
accompanying
officials
for
their
evidences
this
morning
and
we
will
now
move
on
to
the
next
agenda
item
item
two,
which
is
considerations
or
sorry
consideration
or
promotions
on
the
subordinate
legislation
that
we
have
taken
evidence
on
in
the
previous
agenda
item
our
members,
content,
promotions,
s5m22704
and
s5m22856
to
be
moved
on
block
and
if
any
member
is
not
content
with
this
approach,
please
can
you
type
n
in
the
chat
bar
now.
A
Members
are
agreed
to
move
the
motions
on
blocks
so
can
I
now
invite
the
cabinet
secretary
to
move
on
block
motion
s5m22704
that
the
kerbin
19
committee
recommends
that
the
health
protection
coronavirus
restrictions
and
requirements?
Scotland
regulations,
2020,
ssi,
2020
2279,
be
approved
and
motion
s5m22856
that
the
covert
19
committee
recommends
that
the
health
protection
coronavirus
restrictions
and
requirements?
Scotland,
amendment
regulations,
2020
ssi
2020-300,
be
approved.
B
A
A
A
A
Can
I
extend
my
thanks
to
both
colleagues
and
the
cabinet
secretary
and
officials
for
attending,
and
can
I
also
advise
that,
due
to
the
october
recess,
the
next
committee
meeting
will
be
scheduled
for
wednesday,
the
28th
of
october
and
the
clerks
will
provide
members
with
further
information
about
that
meeting
in
due
course,
and
I
now
close
the
meeting.
Thank
you.