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A
Good
morning
and
welcome
everyone
to
the
17th
meeting
of
the
culture,
tourism,
europe
and
external
affairs
committee
and
our
eighth
remote
meeting,
we
also
have
apologies
today
from
beatrice
fisher,
msp
and
ross
greer
msp.
However,
I'm
pleased
to
welcome
patrick
harvey
msp
to
the
committee
as
a
substitute
member
for
ross
today.
Our
first
item
on
the
agenda
is
evidence
on
the
impact
of
covert
19
and
scotland's
tourism
sector.
A
We
were
being
joined
today
by
malcolm
robhead,
chief
executive
and
riddle,
graham
director
of
industry
and
destination
development
and
visit
scotland,
as
well
as
mark
crothold,
chief
executive
of
scottish
tourism
alliance.
However,
due
to
technical
issues,
mr
raphael
is
not
joining
us
at
the
moment,
but
we
can
hope
to
connect
him
soon.
We
do,
however,
have
mr
graham
and
mr
crothel
with
us.
A
I
would
remind
members
to
give
broadcasting
staff
a
few
seconds
to
operate
your
microphones
before
beginning
to
ask
you
a
question
or
to
provide
an
answer,
and
I
would
be
grateful
if
questions
and
answers
could
be
kept
as
succinct
as
possible.
Members
will
wish
to
note
that
mr
ruffhead,
if
he
does
join
us,
has
to
leave
early
and
we
before
we
move
to
questions.
I'd
like
to
invite,
mr
graham
and
mr
crothel,
to
make
brief
opening
statements
who
would
like
to
go
first.
A
B
B
Yeah
sorry,
I
was
waiting
for
the
microphone
to
unmute
apologies
for
my
executive.
I
believe
that
he's
having
problems
with
connectivity
just
to
say
visit,
scotland
has
been
heavily
involved
throughout
the
pandemic
and
supporting
businesses
throughout
the
country
and
in
my
role
as
director
of
industry
and
destination
development,
my
team
have
been
at
the
forefront
of
engaging
directly
with
over
10
000
businesses
on
a
regular
basis,
providing
them
support,
information
and
advice.
B
Scotland
and
importantly,
cosla,
representing
all
the
local
authorities
and
they've,
produced
a
very
detailed
action
plan
which
has
been
updated
on
a
regular
basis
and
to
respond
to
the
challenges
and
changing
needs
of
the
industry
and
our
written
submission,
I
think,
covers
a
lot
of
the
the
main
points
that
that
hopefully,
will
be
discussed
today
in
the
meeting.
Thank
you.
A
C
We've
been
regularly
convening
almost
on
a
weekly
basis.
Formally,
I've
had
lots
of
engagement
with
the
cabinet
secretary.
We
keep
him
fully
appraised
of
what
it's
like
on
the
ground,
conveniently
we
had
only
at
the
beginning
of
the
week
meetings
with
our
hospitality
forum,
which
represented
all
the
accommodation
providers
in
licensed
trade.
The
wider
tourism
sector
forum,
which
brings
in
your
adventure,
visitor
attractions
and
other
bodies,
and
only
yesterday,
the
destinations
forum
of
which
are
about
28
destinations
represented.
C
And
although
we
are
a
member
organization,
we've
made
ourselves
fully
accessible
for
all
the
industry
and
obviously
providing
advice
and
support
and
update,
but
but
very
much
working
in
absolute
collaboration
with
the
agencies
and
scottish
government
as
we
head
through
that
challenges
ahead.
We're
obviously
only
five
weeks
in,
and
I
can
certainly
provide
some
insights
and
unfortunately,
what's
not
looking
to
be
a
very
positive
outlook
for
the
future.
A
Okay,
thank
you
very
much,
mr
mr
krothol.
We'll
now
move
to
questions
I'll
I'll
begin
with
some
opening
questions
and
I'll
then
move
to
the
deputy,
keyner
claire
baker,
and
we
then
moved
to
the
other
members
of
the
committee,
and
we
know
from
our
constituencies
and
from
earlier
discussions
with
the
cabinet
secretary
in
committee
that
one
group
that
are
particularly
struggling
our
larger
hotels.
A
I
know
that
the
cabinet
secretary
wrote
to
his
uk
counterpart,
asking
for
the
ratable
value
cap
of
51k
for
emergency
funding
to
be
lifted,
particularly
so
those
really
key
pieces
of
our
infrastructure
and
tourism
could
be
assisted,
and
now
since
then,
the
scottish
government
has
launched
its
own
scheme.
This
new
hotel
recovery
program,
which
I
understand
is
opening
this
month.
B
B
Make
sure
that
any
funding
that
is
provided
through
this
and
support
through
this
is
targeted
at
the
key
particular
hotels.
I
know
that
mark
has
been
involved
in
helping
to
shape
that
as
well
and
putting
input
in
from
an
industry
point
of
view.
I
think
one
of
the
biggest
challenges,
as
you
would
expect,
is
the
amount
of
money
available
to
support
that
sector,
because,
as
well
as
a
major
employer,
they
have
huge
overhead
costs
and
the
amount
of
money
that
could
be
made
available
and
needs
to
be
available
might
be.
B
There
might
be
a
disconnect
here,
but
definitely
we've
been
involved
in
trying
to
help
shape
it,
so
it
makes
the
biggest
impact,
but
I
suspect,
mark
has
got
more
detail
in
terms
of
how
that
is,
is
panning
out.
It
hasn't
been
formally
launched.
Yet
the
outline
has
been
shared
with
industry
and
the
plan
is
to
launch
it
towards
the
end
of
this
month.
C
C
Yes,
they
haven't
received
a
a
package
of
support,
as
have
other
businesses
other
than
through
some
have
been
able
to
access
the
pivotal
fund,
but
across
the
uk
this
this
support
package
hasn't
been
made
available.
Either
there
are
950
hotels
that
fall
into
that
bracket
of
being
above
51,
000,
pound,
rateable
value
and,
as
little
alluded
to
you
know,
there
is
a
high
level
of
running
cost,
just
on
a
a
day-to-day
basis,
an
average
of
about
sixty
thousand
pounds
a
month
to
run
a
hotel.
C
You
know
20,
11
and
and
11
respectively
in
october,
and
so
you
know,
survival
is
really
really
critical.
And
yes,
this
money
is
welcomed,
but
I
don't
think
it's
it's
certainly
not
going
to
recover.
It
will
help
perhaps
protect
some
of
the
the
job
losses
that
could
be
foreseen,
but
I
think,
more
importantly,
for
those
that
do
benefit
from
the
fund.
It's
about
how
quickly
can
they
return
to
employing
people?
Again,.
A
Thanks
very
much
for
that,
perhaps
you
would
like
to
see
more
on
what
what
would
help?
Obviously
there's
more
money
with
everybody
would
like
more
money,
but
if
there
are
structural
measures
that
would
help
and
and
also
in
the
sta
submission
you
talk
about
the
structural
change
in
tourism
industry
as
a
whole-
perhaps
a
move
away
from
a
quantity
to
quality.
C
We
will
have
a
different
landscape
ahead
of
us,
but
we'll
also
have
a
different
consumer
behavior
as
well,
and
we're
seeing
that
as
well.
So
we
need
to
adapt
and
do
that
and
it
will
happen.
I
think,
through
interventions
of
technology
being
even
more
important
as
we
head
and
actually
obviously
the
access
type
that
is
going
to
be
there
from
international
visitors.
C
C
A
C
C
So
there's
an
awful
lot
of
room
stock,
there's
a
lot
of
investment
and
we
need
those
city
centers
to
be
vibrant
again,
and
it's
further
impacted
of
course.
At
the
moment
by
the
fact,
there
is
no
very
few
workers
in
the
city
centre
environments,
that's
providing
the
daytime
trade
as
well.
They
are
the
bulk
they
employ
the
most
people
and
that
they
generate
the
most
amount
of
revenue
for
that
for
the
sector,
and
you
know,
keeping
them
alive
is
is
absolutely
important.
C
We
can't
say
you
know
a
huge
huge
positive
that
you
know.
Scots
have
explored
scotland
and
they've
stayed
home
and
they've
they've
gone
to
enjoy
their
staycations
very
much
so
in
the
rural
areas.
Postal
coastal
communities
and
the
self-catering
sector
in
particular,
is
exceptionally
buoyant.
However,
self-catering
themselves,
even
in
the
cities,
are
only
tracking
it
around
ten
percent
occupancy,
but
unfortunately
we
don't
have.
A
D
And
thank
you
very
much
convener.
It
is
a
really
difficult
time
for
tourism
and
the
last
few
months
have
just
been
unimaginable
in
terms
of
the
picture
that's
been
outlined.
I
know
we
need
to
look
for
positives
here
and
try
and
think
about
the
future,
but
the
figures
that
we've
been
given
around
occupancy
rates
for
the
cities
are
really
concerning
and
while
we
may
see
a
shift
towards
self-catering
and
more
rural
tourism,
the
the
amount
of
employment
as
mark
has
outlined
really
lies
within
the
cities.
D
So,
as
the
furlough
scheme
is
due
to
come
to
an
end,
can
the
panel
maybe
discuss
how
they
see
the
level
of
redundancies
that
are
coming?
Whether
that
is
whether
the
large
hotel
fund,
which
is
very
welcome,
is
enough
to
sustain
employment
in
the
sector?
Or
are
we
looking
at
a
significant
number
of
redundancies
across
the
tourism
sector?.
B
B
How
easy
it
is
to
estimate
the
actual
impact
on
that,
I
think,
is
pretty
difficult
to
do.
I'm
involved
with
the
south,
scotland,
regional
economic
partnership
and
they've
been
tracking
redundancy
situations
there
as
well
and
been
quite
interesting
to
see
ones
that
I
wasn't
aware
of
that
centrally
within
visit
scotland
that
have
been
brought
through
as
well.
So
I
suspect
a
lot
more
is
about
to
happen.
Put
a
figure
on
it.
C
C
I
think
in
the
nearer
nearer
time
as
well,
and
I
think
it
still
depends
a
lot
on
whether
some
of
the
the
industry
can
start
to
reactivate
itself
or
aspects
of
the
industry
to
start
to
recommence,
and
particularly
events,
I
am,
and
I'm
not
talking
about
just
the
sort
of
larger
scale
events,
I'm
talking
about
functions
and
meetings.
That
would
you
know,
take
place
in
hotels
through
the
the
autumn
winter
months.
C
Obviously,
christmas
party
season,
we
probably
think
that
that's
gone,
but
there
are
a
number
of
other
opportunities
and
and
those
types
of
act
that
type
of
activity
also
helps
retain
workforce.
So
if
that
doesn't
kick
in
reasonably
quickly,
then
that
will
have
also
also
have
a
bearing
on
how
our
businesses
reach
their
decisions
to
let
people
go.
C
But
we
we
put
a
rough
sort
of
estimate
at
the
outset
of
this
situation
of
the
potential
and
the
number
was
sort
of
mid-range
around
70
000
jobs
could
be
lost
as
a
direct
result
of
this.
If,
if
recovery
didn't
happen
quickly
and
at
the
moment
you
know,
the
indicators
are
to
get
back
to
anything
like
the
levels
of
of
business,
that
we
were
in
2019.
C
C
But
as
one
of
my
colleagues
who
was
on
that
call
with
the
bank
of
england
said,
I
think
we're
very
much
still
in
the
rescue
position
and
that
fallout
of
workforces
is
unfortunately
going
to
only
increase
by
the
day
and
furlough,
where
there,
you
know,
is
no
alternative
and
there's
contributions
needing
to
be
made.
Businesses
are
just
not
going
to
be
able
to
sustain
that,
and
small
businesses
has
riddled
quite
rightly
pointed
out,
there's
lots
of
twos
and
threes
and
double
digit
numbers.
D
Okay,
thank
you
and
thank
you.
The
other
area
mark
referred
to
was
the
supply
chains
and
that's
another
area
where
they're
under
significant
pressure
in
my
own
region,
allison
wholesale,
who
are
based
in
glenrothes
they've,
reported
this
week,
the
losses
they
have
and
the
amount
of
produce
they've
had
to
dump
because
about
the
sale
dates,
we've
heard
representation
as
a
committee
from
the
coach
coaching
sector
and
obviously,
as
the
coaching
sector
declines,
as
an
impact
on
hotel
occupancy.
D
Often
the
two
businesses
are
linked
and
we've
seen
the
collapse
of
the
bay
chain
of
hotels
which
is
linked
to
the
coach
sector.
So
as
the
scottish
tourism
alliance
and
visit
scotland,
what
kind
of
engagement
do
you
have
with
the
supply
chain
and
what
pressures
do
you
see
in
the
supply
chain?
Obviously
this
will
impact
on
wholesale
on
laundry
services
and
a
host
of
other
businesses
that
are
connected
to
tourism.
How
do
you
see
the
impact
of
the
situation
on
them?.
B
I
think
that's
a
really
good
point
and
I
I
think
what
what
the
pandemic
has
has
outlined-
and
I
vividly
remember
this
in
2001
with
mouth
disease.
That's
the
the
unintended
consequence.
The
parts
that
people
hadn't
realized
were
connected
are
often
as
if
not
more
important
than
the
the
mainstream
that
you
read
in
the
press.
Interesting.
You
mentioned
the
the
supply
chain
we're
about
to,
I
think.
B
B
People
are
hugely
supportive
from
a
sponsorship
point
of
view
in
terms
of
a
lot
of
the
activity
that
we
carry
out
and
that
you
mentioned
laundry
fisher's
laundry
are
one
of
our
key
sponsors
in
terms
of
our
thistle
awards,
for
instance,
and
are
obviously
key
patrons
of
the
scottish
twosome
alliance.
So
it's
companies
like
that
that
have
that
have
always
been
very
supportive.
That
may
well
be
struggling
in
the
future
to
find
funds
to
do
that
kind
of
activity,
so
we're
certainly
engaged
right
across
the
piece.
C
Just
going
back
into
your
question,
I
mean
many
of
the
supply
chain
are
actually
members
and
have
been
increased.
Their
engagement
with
us
on
a
almost
reg
on
a
daily
basis
throughout
the
period
of
the
pandemic-
and
you
know,
riddle
are
referred
to
fisher's
laundry
there
as
an
example.
Unfortunately,
they
had
to
shut
down
one
of
their
plants
and
they
were
doing
roughly
two
and
a
half
million
pieces
of
laundry
a
day
went
down
to
90
000
as
a
ballpark.
C
They
service
around
60
percent
of
the
accommodation
sector
across
scotland
as
a
whole
and
they're
they're
about
50
of
their
capacity.
So
it's
very
much
in
line
with
the
occupancy
levels
that
we're
seeing
up
and
down
the
country,
the
confederation
of
passenger
transport.
We
represent
the
coach
sector,
also
one
of
our
council
members
and
said
around
our
table.
B
Yeah
thanks
for
that
question,
two
pieces
of
work
being
carried
out
at
the
moment,
the
aegis
of
the
emergency
response
group.
We've
been
doing
some
scenario,
planning
work
led
and
linked
into
work
that
scottish
enterprise
and
scottish
government
have
done,
and
our
insights
team
have
been
looking
at
five
different
scenarios
and
they
shared
that
with
the
stare
group
last
week
and
a
lot.
B
A
lot
depends
on
what
happens
next
and
it's
quite
a
difficult
situation
to
be
absolutely
accurate
on
an
equally
piece
of
work
being
led
by
gordon
jure
from
edinburgh
airport
that
guys
are
involved
with
as
well
looking
forward.
I
think
one
of
the
the
themes
that's
coming
out
very
strongly.
We
reviewed
throughstag
the
scotland
outlook,
national
tourism
strategy,
which
was
had
a
strong
focus
on
responsible
tourism.
But,
interestingly,
that
review
has
led
us
to
believe
that
that's
going
to
be
even
more
important
in
the
future.
B
The
idea
that
responsible
tourism
as
a
good
place
for
people
to
live
and
to
visit,
is
going
to
be
at
the
forefront
of
our
activities,
so
greening
the
industry
making
sure
that
we
are
at
the
forefront
of
all
the
innovations
in
relation
to
electrification
and
whatever
low
carbon
sustainable
activity.
I
think
is
going
to
be
a
key
feature
and
I
think
it's
encouraging
to
see
in
the
aegean
report
that
sustainability
and
greening
is
a
key
aspect
of
that
as
well.
C
Yeah,
I
I
would
just
come
back
in
there
and
I
go
back
to
the
reference
to
the
the
strategy
and
the
strategy
was
developed.
You
know
in
in
full
collaboration
with
a
huge
amount
of
of
industry
input,
so
there
is
aspiration
and
desire
for
for
industry
to
come
together
and
and
be
more
a
responsible
and
certainly
to
make
us
more
sustainable.
C
From
a
from
a
business
point
of
view
of
sustainability,
it
became
very
apparent,
I
think,
the
the
average
number
of
days
lifetime
a
business
had
was
about
23
days
before
it
fell
into
severe
difficulty
with
with
cash
flow.
But
there
are
a
lot
of
you
know
the
way
people
will
travel
we're
having
to
combat
almost
some
of
the
the
do's
or
the
don'ts
of
of
the
sustainable
green
agenda,
with
we're
seeing
much
more
plastic
in
the
operation
of
more
people
traveling
by
car,
but
around
our
table
again.
E
Obviously,
the
issue
of
connectivity
was
touched
upon
there
and
we
think
when
we
think
about
connectivity
primarily
of
air
connectivity,
and
it
would
be
interesting
to
hear
the
thoughts
on
where
we
think
we
might
be
in
two
or
three
years
time
in
terms
of
international
connectivity
as
regards
there.
But
of
course
air
is
not
the
only
option.
I
am
the
msp
for
recycle
and,
of
course,
the
issue
of
the
recite
passenger
ferry.
B
Thanks
for
that,
I
think
you're
you're,
absolutely
right.
I
mean
our
most
important
international
market,
as
I'm
sure
you're
aware
is,
is
north
america
and
right
now
the
the
number
of
flights
coming
in
with
north
american
passengers
is
very
limited
understandably
so
and
near
europe
is,
without
a
doubt
our
second
most
france
in
germany,
and
we
are
going
to
be
targeting
that
at
the
appropriate
time.
B
I
think
you
make
a
point
very
well
indeed,
in
terms
of
passenger
ferry
capacity,
a
lot
of
arrivals
into
scotland
arrive
through
through
england,
through
london
and
through
manchester,
in
terms
of
then
international
flights,
but
also
all
the
ferry
connections
are
based
south
of
the
border.
Although
there
is
one
just
south
of
the
border
in
newcastle,
which
we
obviously
tap
into.
B
B
C
Just
said
there
I
think
we
have
to
think
around
consumer
sentiments
and
how
people
are
choosing
to
go
on
on
ferries
or
large
ships
at
the
moment,
but
also
the
scandinavian
market
as
well
have
intimated.
You
know
there
is
demand
from
there,
so
certainly
the
more
opportunities
of
getting
people
here
from
foreign
shores,
the
better.
E
F
F
F
What
does
the
industry
need
to
reorient
itself?
What
does
the
industry
need?
The
scottish
government
to
do
specifically
to
reorient
itself
around
a
greater
reliance
on
surface
travel,
a
greater
reliance
on
domestic
and
near
field
tourism,
and
a
recognition
that
just
flying
in
ever
more
people
is
not
just
unrealistic,
but
is,
is
not
going
to
be
a
path
to
a
successful
vibrant
tourism
industry
in
the
future.
B
Wow,
quite
a
challenge
and
you're
absolutely
dead
right.
There
is
without
doubt
a
tension
between
the
two,
and
I
think
there
always
will
be.
I
think
several
points
there.
The
the
move
within
airlines
to
make
themselves
more
carbon,
effective,
I
think,
is-
is
welcomed.
People
will
still
want
to
travel.
B
However,
I
think
you're
right.
What
what
the
pandemic
has
has
outlined
is
the
huge
demand
for
domestic
travel
within
scotland
and
also
within
the
rest
of
the
united
kingdom,
and
that
has,
I
think,
opened
the
eyes
of
a
number
of
operators
to
that
opportunity.
That's
not
been
the
case
in
the
past.
People
for
the
first
time
have
rediscovered
their
own
country,
for
instance
in
scotland,
and
without
that
boost
I
think,
we'll
be
in
a
much
worse
place
than
we
are
at
the
moment.
I
think
there
is.
B
There
is
a
real
challenge.
I
mean
north
america.
I
believe
I
think
you're
right.
It
won't
return
to
what
it
was
like
before,
but
north
america
will
still
remain
a
very
important
market
and
the
business
tourism
market.
All
the
indicators
that
I've
been
in
relation
to
meetings
and
incentives
and
conferences
is
going
to
return
the
the
idea
that
zoom
replaces
everything,
I
think
is
not
the
case.
Certainly,
the
the
insider
information
from
people
in
that
part
of
the
industry
indicate
that
that
will
be
something
that
will
return.
B
How
long
that's
going
to
take.
I
just
don't
know
but
yeah
you're
right
I
mean
the
the
the
challenge
is
to
try
and
make
all
travel
more
sustainable.
The
whole
idea
behind
a
sustainability
is
the
three-legged
stool
of
economic,
social
and
environmental,
and
if
one
part
of
that
is
out
of
kilter,
then
it's
not
sustainable.
B
B
My
concern
has
always
been,
of
course,
that,
as
as
soon
as
people
are
able
to
travel
again,
whether
we
like
it
or
not,
people
will
start
to
return
to
the
sun
destinations,
as
has
already
been
seen
earlier
this
season.
So
I
think
you
ask
what
the
scottish
government
needs
to
do
and
I
think
it's
about
recognizing
that
it
is
about
balance
and
that
it's
not
always
about
mass
tourism
and
that
there
are
other
ways
of
accessing
the
country
and
traveling
around
that
are
more
sustainable
and
purely
relying
on
the
aviation
industry.
C
I
would
would
echo
again
what
riddles
just
said:
it's
about
balance
and
we
can't
ignore
the
importance
of
our
international
market.
Business
tourism
alone
is
worth
two
billion
pounds
or
or
was
when
it
comes
to
the
sort
of
part
of
our
total
pot,
and
you
know
those
big
conventions
are
absolutely
vital
to
be
able
to
fill
the
beds
in
our
cities
and
obviously,
in
turn,
sort
of
keep
the
supply
chain
moving
and
in
the
domestic
front.
C
Let's
not
forget
we
already
have
70
percent
of
our
market
is
domestic
tourism,
so
we've
been
very
much
weighted
towards
that.
How
do
we
improve
it?
And
I
think
many
more
people
have
explored
scotland
and
there's
still
plenty
more
to
see
and
do,
and
we
need
to
definitely
put
continue
to
put
more
investment
into
our
infrastructure
and
to
accommodate
those
that
are
visiting
out
and
about
into
the
rural
areas
in
particular
has
been
some.
C
You
know
real
pinch
points
and
challenges
in
those
parts
of
the
world
with
car
parks
and
toilet
facilities.
We've
seen
a
growth
in
in
the
camping
and
caravanning
community
and
with
that
has
brought
some
real
challenges
around
camping,
but
we
also
have
to
consider
the
the
affordability
of
our
domestic
market
in
being
able
to
to
have
that
spending
that
disposable
income
to
be
able
to
spend,
as
we
would
want
in
those
in
those
communities
to
use.
C
F
Thank
you.
I
suppose
I'm
still
a
little
concerned
that
there
seems
to
be
more
more
interesting.
How
do
we
get
back
to
previous
travel
patterns
rather
than
how
do
we
adapt
the
industry
to
what's
to
come,
and
I
think
there's
there's
going
to
have
to
be
a
reckoning
with
climate
reality
at
some
point,
but
I
also
wanted
to
ask
about
the
the
the
the
idea
of
of
of
building
back
better,
which
is
a
slogan
than
a
kind
of
catchphrase
which
is
caught
on
about
how
do
we?
How
do
we
use
this?
F
This
crisis
that
we've
we've
been
living
through
to
to
try
and
build
a
society
in
the
economy
that
works
better,
and
the
scottish
government
is
quite
clear
that
it
wants
recovery
from
kobits
to
be
about
building
a
fairer,
greener
and
more
equal
society,
so
in
in
that
regard,
how
does
the
tourism
industry
and
how
do
we
help
the
tourism
industry
prevent?
What's
what's
going
to
come
from,
leading
to
another
race
to
the
bottom,
on
employment
standards
on
pay
within
the
sector?
F
C
C
It
sets
out
a
number
of
areas
where
we
believe
if
we
get
the
right
balance
and
using
that
word
again
to
allow
businesses
to
charge
a
fair
rate
for
their
services
and
be
able
to
then
play
pay
their
employees
a
fair
wage
and
grow
their
experience
and
also,
at
the
same
time,
pay
their
supply
chain
of
their
amount
of
money
for
for
their
products.
That
will
all
lead
to
a
much
better
place,
and
I
think
everybody.
C
C
Only
pre-coded
that
we
were
actually
in
a
desperate
situation
of
not
having
enough
of
a
workforce
to
be
able
to
maintain
the
likely
demand
that
we
were
facing
and
now
obviously
having
a
situation
where
we've
got
a
huge
amount
of
displaced
workforce,
but
protecting
the
workforce.
Getting
the
back
and
seeing
tourism
as
a
making
tourism
as
a
career
of
choice,
is
very,
very
much
high
on
our
agenda.
C
But
you
know
to
be
accessible
at
a
fair
price.
You
we've
got
to
be
able
to
have
some,
I
suppose
offsets
and
trade-offs
in
the
modeling
of
a
business
to
allow
them
to
to
be
competitive,
reinvest
in
their
asset,
invest
in
their
people
and
recover
over
a
period
of
time,
but
at
the
same
time
importantly
be
competitive
against
our
wider
destinations
and
those
businesses
are
committed
to
do
that.
B
In
terms
of
that
that
fairer
and
better
agenda
and
we're
working
really
closely
with
girls
development,
scotland,
on
a
whole
range
of
initiatives
there
to
ensure
that
that
happens
and
and
supports
individuals
to
to
get
the
right
kind
of
jobs
in
the
right
places
to
support
that
and
we're
totally
committed
to
the
fairer
and
more
equal
agenda.
Then
visit
scotland
and
all
the
engagement
we
have
with
the
businesses
that
we
engage
with
is
re-emphasizing.
That
very
point
and
in
terms
of
the
unethical
working
practices.
B
We've
been
working
very
closely
with
local
government
and
central
government
and
also
with
the
key
sector
organizations
to
ensure
that
that
all
the
legal
points
are
in
place
in
relation
to
safety
and
health
and
everything
else.
So
you
know.
That
is
something
that
we
take
very
seriously
indeed,
and
if
we're
made
aware
of
any
concerns
in
any
part
of
the
country,
then
we'll
do
our
best
to
try
and
snuff
that
out
very
quickly,
and
you
know
we're
aware
of
issues
that
have
been
very
prevalent
in
edinburgh
in
particular,
and
we've
been
working.
G
Thank
you,
convener
and
good
morning
to
the
witnesses.
In
the
past
few
weeks,
you've
seen
polling
in
a
national
newspaper
suggesting
that
a
significant
proportion
of
scots
want
english
visitors
to
be
quarantined.
A
senior
government
advisor
suggesting
that
english
people
are
spreading
the
coronavirus
and
had
confirmation
that
visit
scotland
has
been
getting
a
lot
of
pressure
from
the
industry
to
target
visitors
from
outside
scotland,
especially-
and
I
quote,
given
the
recent
negative
anti-english
sentiment
in
that
context,
why
do
you
think
the
scottish
government
wanted
to
remove
references
to
england
in
recent
visit
scotland,
promotional
activities?
G
B
There
seems
to
be
no
point
whatsoever
in
promoting
tourism
to
parts
of
the
country
that
have
particular
issues
I
mean
classic
example
would
be.
Why
would
we
promote
scotland
in
north
america
when
they've
got
huge
problems
there
with
with
the
virus?
So
I
I
think,
specific
references
to
england.
I
don't
think
was
the
case.
It
was
just
simply.
Can
you
put
on
pause
the
activity
that
you
were
planning
until
such
a
time
that
it
is
safe
to
do
so,
and
I
think
that
makes
absolute
sense.
B
B
Inevitably,
you
will
always
get
a
small
minority
that
spoil
it
for
for
the
rest,
and
I
don't
think
that
the
media
coverage
was
representative
in
in
any
way
of
the
welcome
that
scots
are
providing
visitors
from
all
over
the
world
and
particularly
those
from
england,
our
most
important
domestic
market.
So
certainly
the
experience
on
the
ground
suggests
that
that
hasn't
put
people
off
and
in
fact
the
opposite.
B
That
they've
been
welcomed
with
open
arms
and
encouraged
to
stay
in
areas
that
they
otherwise
probably
would
not
have
come
through
this
year,
given
the
demands
from
other
parts
of
the
country.
So
of
course,
I'm
always
embarrassed
at
things
like
that,
because
I
think
it
does
nothing
to
to
support
the
well-being
of
the
industry.
But
I
think
that
was
a
a
minority
view
and
one
that
I
think
is
not
representative
of
the
rest
of
the
country.
C
I
I
think,
from
the
industry's
point
of
view.
As
riddle
said,
I
mean
we
are
seeing
a
good
number
of
english
and
people
from
across
the
whole
of
the
uk
visiting
and
in
fact,
despite
the
fact,
the
the
pay
for
promotion
was
paused
and
there
has
been
a
good
bit
of
reach
into
the
english
markets
through
other
social
channels
and
things
and
businesses
themselves
have
actually
targeted.
You
know
contacts
and
databases
in
the
english
community.
We
are
it's
important
that
you
know.
C
But
I
go
back
to
the
point
that
whilst
vacation
has
been
very
good
and
we've
had
a
lot
of
scots,
you
know
spending
out
and
about
booking,
you
know
self-catering
holidays.
We
must
get
more
people
here
to
be
able
to
drive
the
level
of
spend
into
the
local
economies
to
make
the
industry
sustainable
and
those
businesses
sustainable,
so
volume
of
visitor.
G
Thank
you
for
those
answers
and
I
do
respect
what
you're
saying.
However,
there's
no
doubt
in
my
mind
that
the
failure
of
the
first
minister
and
other
senior
figures
in
the
scottish
government
I
had
to
shut
down
the
perception
that
scotland
is
closed
to
english.
Visitors,
has
badly
failed
the
tourism
industry
and
once
again
put
politics
before
people's
lives.
One
individual
business,
that's
been
in
touch
with
me
in
recent
weeks
said
we're
just
one.
Tourism
business,
but
we've
been
inundated
with
angry
calls.
G
Many
turning
into
cancellations
due
to
the
alienation
created
from
hollywood
and
the
messages
on
many
border
roads
like
the
a1
telling
visitors
to
stay
away.
The
scottish
government
should
reflect
on
how
much
of
tourism
is
uk
based.
My
own
border
business
is
on
the
front
line
of
the
north
south
divide
being
created,
and
this
must
be
hurting.
Others
too.
No
wonder
they
are
concerned
when
they've
got
guests
contacting
them.
Stating
please
cancel
our
booking
for
8th
august
according
to
speculation
from
the
scottish
first
minister
that
english
visitors
may
have
to
quarantine.
G
On
arrival
in
scotland,
we've
decided
to
give
scotland
a
miss
this
year,
another
guest
emailed
them
saying
just
checking
everything
is
still
as
per
our
last
email,
and
everything
looks
okay
for
our
stay,
especially
with
nicola
sturgeon,
threatening
to
quarantine
as
nasty
english
people.
This
is
pretty
grim
and
reflects
what
lots
of
people
are
saying
to
me.
B
B
B
I
know
that
people
that
had
cancellations
were
immediately
rebooked,
so
it
it
may
have
put
off
a
small
number
of
people
coming
from
our
most
important
market,
england,
but
the
certainly
the
the
figures
and
the
the
feedback
I've
had
from
throughout
the
country.
My
team
covered
every
part
of
scotland
courtney,
shetland
outer
hebrides
north
south
east
and
west.
B
The
the
feedback
I'm
receiving
is
that
in
particular
in
the
rural
parts
of
scotland
and
marks
alluded
to
the
cities,
but
in
the
rural
parts
of
scotland
it
has
been
extremely
busy
with
loads
of
english
visitors
around.
So
the
reality
on
the
ground
I
think
is
is
is
not
borne
out
by
by
what
you've
just
said,
but
of
course
we
all
continue
to
lobby
government
and
and
keep
them
informed.
B
In
fact,
after
this
meeting
we
have
a
meeting
of
the
scottish
chisholm
emergency
response
group
and
scottish
government
officials
are
on
that
and
we'll
make
sure
that
those
messages
are
loud
and
clear.
At
the
end
of
the
day,
we
have
to
be
guided
by
the
health
advice
and
the
medical
advice,
and
to
do
anything
to
the
opposite
would
just
be
foolhardy
in
my
opinion,
so
we
will
spend
the
money
when
it
makes
sense
to
do
so.
We've
got
campaigns
ready
to
go.
We've
been
working
very
closely
with
a
number
of
destination
organizations.
B
We
see
the
ottoman
winter
as
a
key
opportunity
to
promote
the
country
and
boost
the
extension
of
the
season,
which
is
something
that
I
think
is
very
important
as
well,
and
a
key
target
market
for
that
will
be
south
of
the
border
without
any
doubt.
So,
just
to
reassure
you,
the
campaigns
have
not
been
been
there
on
on
pause.
C
Again,
you've
quoted
some
examples
there
from
businesses
I
mean
we
were.
We
had
similar
quoted
to
us,
but
there
were
a
reasonable
number
from
different
types,
but
once
those
individuals
or
the
business
owners
had
actually
spoken
to
them
as
riddle
said
many
of
them
rebooked
and
were
reassured.
I
think
there
was
some
confusion
as
well
around
the.
When
can
I
access,
because
we
had
some
divergence
from
the
situation
south
of
the
border
and
those
were
you
know.
H
H
One
of
the
the
questions
I'd
like
to
ask
is
regarding
the
furlough
scheme.
Every
politician,
every
political
party
has
welcomed
the
introduction
of
the
football
scheme
and-
and
I
I
very
much
agree
with
something
with
the
scottish
government's
position
on
the
formal
scheme,
and
yesterday
we
held
germany.
H
The
chancellor
merkel
has
was
going
to
extend
the
follow
scheme
by
up
to
some
24
months
now
in
terms
of
the
panelists
in
front
of
us.
So
is
that
something
that
that
david
actually
wanted
to
see
happen?
Certainly
scotland
also
uk
white
to
actually
help
and
assist
with
the
promotion
and
marketing
of
scotland
as
we
go
forward.
B
I
think
the
one
thing
I
would
say
is
that
the
industry
feed
into
the
emergency
response
group
has
has
been
very
loud
and
clear,
which
is
that
all
these
schemes
have
been
hugely
welcomed
and
they
have
helped
businesses
through
what
has
been
an
unbelievably
difficult
challenge.
However,
there
needs
to
be
a
longer
term
commitment
to
support
of
that
nature,
ensure
that
we
get
through
the
winter
months
and
when
traditionally,
businesses
is
much
poorer
at
that
time
of
the
year.
B
So
I'm
sure
mark's
got
much
more
to
say
about
that
than
I
have,
but
I
think
certainly
the
feedback
has
has
been
very
clear.
That
extension
of
the
furlough
to
ensure
that
we
still
have
people
to
work
in
those
businesses
and
be
available
and
the
businesses
being
open
is
something
that
would
that
would
be
welcomed
beyond
the
current
planned
period.
C
Absolutely
I
mean
we
can't
underestimate
the
the
photo
scheme.
I
think
I
cried
when,
when
it
was
announced
so,
and
the
industry
collectively
across
the
uk
are
very
much
aligned
to
all
of
the
the
asks
and
the
needs
for
government
responses
to
support
us
through
what
has
been
described
as
three
winters
and
one
in
the
reality.
That
is
particularly
where
we
have
seasonal
businesses
and
some
of
our
sectors
have
a
huge
skill
set
in
there
in
visitor
attractions
sector,
our
outdoor
adventure
sectors.
C
But,
yes,
you
know
a
government
scheme.
Extension
of
of
the
furlough
scheme
for
the
sector.
Pacific
would
be
very
welcome
and
something
that
we
will
continue
to
to
represent.
There
has
to
be
a
cut-off
point.
I
think
germany,
thankfully
have
set
the
bar,
and
if
I
refer
back,
I
think
to
the
chancellor
saying
that
you
know
we
will
be
world
leading
and
have
the
best
scheme
available.
Then
well.
Germany's
has
put
out
a
furlough
extension
for
a
two-year
period.
C
It
does
come
at
a
cost,
but
actually
the
the
human
element
and
the
resource
that
we
we
are
reliant
on
for
a
successful
recovery,
and
you
know
we
need
to
do
what
all
that
we
can
to
protect
those
that
are
still
in
employment
and
on
those
books.
Otherwise
we're
going
to
have
a
big
big
challenge
and
with
brexit
looming
as
well.
That
presents
further
challenges
on
on
future
workforce.
C
There
are
a
number
of
other,
obviously
initiatives
and
things
that
we
would
like
to
see
which
will
enable
that
employment
continue.
The
you
know
the
current
eat
out
the
help
out
scheme,
for
example,
35
million
meals
have
been
consumed
on
that
program,
but
certainly
the
impact
of
that
of
being
able
to
keep
people
in
employment
and
working
over
the
early
parts
of
the
weeks
has
been
very
beneficial
too.
So
what
furlough
is
is
would
be.
H
Want
the
the
vat
scheme
to
be
extended
also
bearing
among
the
the
campaign
in
the
past
regarding
v80,
but
the
second
question
is
regarding
the
the
cruise
sector,
tourism
and
as
you're
aware
also
representing
the
brooklyn
constituents
saying
cruz.
Tourism
has
been
a
very
much
a
growing
sector
in
my
area
now
over
the
last
decade.
B
Yes,
absolutely
and,
and
to
that
end
we
carried
out
a
piece
of
very
detailed
research.
Hopefully
it's
going
to
be
published
the
next
couple
of
weeks
and
I
was
very
keen
to
move
away
from
the
kind
of
demand
side
and
and
because
we're
very
aware
of
where
all
the
cruise
liners
are
coming
in
and
the
volumes
that
are
involved
to
look
at
the
potential
impact
on
on
the
land,
on
the
the
need
for
support
services
and
also
on
the
need
for
infrastructure.
B
As
I'm
sure
you're
aware,
in
some
parts
of
the
country,
there
has
been
a
disproportionate
impact
on
the
environment,
I'm
thinking
where
there's
been
some
real
challenges
there
and
that's
why
we
were
delighted
to
be
involved
in
delivering
the
rural
tourism
infrastructure
fund.
It's
been
hugely
successful
in
terms
of
trying
to
minimize
some
of
the
impacts
of
huge
volumes
of
people
being
attracted,
but
you're
right.
B
But
the
focus
has
been
very
much
on
on
how
we
can
improve
the
experience
for
cruise
line
visitors
and
how
we
can
generate
more
revenue
for
businesses
on
the
ground
that
are
benefiting,
and
I
know
different
parts
of
the
country
are
benefiting
in
different
ways.
I
I
was
concerned,
it's
always
been
the
case
that,
with
the
huge
increase
in
the
size
of
some
of
these
cruise
liners,
it
can
have
a
massively
disproportionate
impact.
I'm
sure
you're,
aware
of
that
yourself.
B
But
it's
been
encouraging
to
see
investment
happening
in
quite
a
lot
of
the
ports
around
the
country
and
to
provide
that
first
impression
and
that
better
impression
and
then
the
key
then
is-
and
we
touched
on
it
earlier
on-
the
people
part
make
sure
that
the
people
that
are
there
welcoming
are
giving
them
the
right
kind
of
advice
and
information
and
to
direct
them
to
the
right
places
to
get
the
spend
so
important
market
you're
right.
It
has
been
totally
devastated.
B
Speaking
to
a
number
of
ports
over
the
past
two
three
months:
total
lack
of
business
but
an
opportunity
in
the
future.
I
think
to
do
better
and
to
learn
from
the
experience
we've
had
so
far
as
you're
aware
some
other
destinations
throughout
the
world
have
been
looking
very
closely
at
how
they
manage
the
whole
impact
of
of
cruise
liners,
I'm
thinking
of
santorini
and
and
venice,
where
the
impact's
been
disproportionate.
C
Forward
and
as
you'll
be
aware,
the
scottish
tourism
alliance
has
facilitated
a
couple
of
cruise
conferences
last
year
to
try
and
say
bridge
the
gap
between
land
and
sea
and
how
we
can
better
provide
that
quality
of
spit
experience,
but
also
how
those
onshore
onshore
businesses
can.
You
know
capitalize
from
the
the
visitors
we
I
think,
due
to
have
just
over
a
million
visitors
disembarked
from
cruise
ships
this
year
before
the
pandemic
hit.
C
C
You
know
the
adventure
activities
and
enjoy
our
food
and
drink
experience
in
a
much
more
personalized
way,
as
well
so
opportunities
to
to
look
at
how
that
sector
will
itself,
I'm
sure
have
to
diversify,
given
the
the
impact
that
it's
it's
felt,
but
you
know
we
can't
underestimate.
They
do
spend
money
in
the
likes
of
immigration
and
down
and
in
the
clyde
as
well.
You
know
they're
very
important
parts,
important
visitor
numbers
into
those
communities,
but
as
and
when
it
recovers
and,
of
course
it's
how
do
we?
I
Thank
you
convener.
Thank
you
for
the
evidence
that
you've
given
to
both
our
witnesses.
Thus
far,
we've
always
had
a
very
difficult
time
in
scotland,
with
tourism,
and
also
a
lot
of
what
people
are
saying
points
to
a
gloomy
outlook,
or
at
least
the
perception
of
a
gloomy
outlook
for
the
future
and
now,
of
course,
reality
affects
perception,
but
in
business
perception
also
affects
reality.
The
other
way
around.
B
Future,
I
think
you
make
a
really
good
point.
I
think
the
one
thing
to
do
is
as
well
as
highlighting
the
real
challenges
and
and
negativity.
It
is
also
about
highlighting
those
businesses
that
are
actually
doing
quite
well.
There
are,
from
my
own
experience,
a
number
of
hotels
in
the
highlands,
for
instance,
who
are
reporting
80
occupancy.
There
are
a
number
of
businesses
and
marks
alluded
to
them
that
have
been
unbelievably
entrepreneurial.
B
One
of
the
plans
we
have
at
the
beginning
of
of
next
year
is
to
celebrate
tourism
in
a
way
that
we've
not
been
able
to
before
and
to
look
back
over
these
platform
past
few
months
and
pick
out
some
real
winners
and
identify
the
real
opportunities
in
terms
of
a
positive
message.
So
I
I
think
you're
right
perception.
Reality
are
quite
often
the
same,
but
quite
often
different,
and
I
think
it
is
about
talking
up
the
positives
as
well
as
identifying
the
negatives.
B
There
are
huge
opportunities
that
will
come
as
a
result
of
this
pandemic
and
we
need
to
learn
from
them,
as
we
did
way
back
in
2001
with
foot
and
mouth
and
volcanoes
mentioned
earlier
on.
The
over-reliance
on
certain
markets
or
the
over-reliance
on
certain
sectors,
but
you
know,
highlighting
the
huge
in
self-catering
focus
on
quality
focus
on
responsible
tourism.
These
are
all
messages
that
we
want
to
put
out,
not
taking
away
from
the
core
messages
that
that
we
already
do
within
our
marketing
activity.
B
C
For
someone
who's
worked
in
the
industry
for
42
years
in
different
parts
of
the
world
that
have
been
in
scotland
since
1990.
It's
you
can't
question
the
the
ambition
and
the
desire
and
the
passion
and
the
commitment
from
our
industry
to
to
be
the
best
to
want
to
host
people
want
to
really
give
their
back
do
their
best.
To
give
back
to
scotland
and
showcase
all
that.
C
I
think
the
one
thing
that
this
situation
we
find
ourselves
in,
though
it
has
actually
highlighted
as
riddle,
said,
not
just
the
fact
that
tourism
does.
You
know
it
touches
every
part
of
the
community,
but
actually
it
is
a
heartbeat
of
a
community
and
it
it
touches
many
people's
livelihoods
in
terms
of
their
employment
and
impact
on
their
own
jobs.
C
And
you
know
we
are,
though,
without
question,
though
facing
really
really
challenging
times
so,
but
celebrating
the
the
businesses
that
are
doing
well
and
the
desire
to
do
it,
and
actually,
I
suppose,
working
importantly
with
the
industry,
to
give
good
due
consideration
to
the
recommendations
and
the
suggestions
that
would
help
leverage
that
recovery
as
quickly
as
possible.
And
ultimately,
we
can
become.
You
know
a
mainstay
employer.
We
had
250
odd
thousand
people
working
in
our
sector.
I
Just
just
on
that
last
point,
if
I
may
do
you
think
going
forward,
a
more
sustainable
future
model
for
tourism
is
to
be
to
rely
on
those
closer
to
hand.
Ireland,
wales,
england,
in
terms
of
the
the
tourism
outreach
rather
than
much
further
afield
and
just
thinking
in
terms
of
sustainability
for
the
environment
and
these
points
as
well.
B
However,
I've
got
to
say
that
the
international
market
is
going
to
be
absolutely
key
to
the
future.
Quite
interesting
speaking
to
colleagues
in
new
zealand,
new
zealand
tourist
board
never
ever
promoted
to
new
zealanders
because
they
never
had
to
because
all
their
tourism
was
international
and
they've
had
a
real
struggle
this
year
to
try
and
get
new
zealand
people
to
think
about
their
own
country,
and
it's
it's
quite
strange
to
listen
to
their
challenges.
B
But
what
they've
discovered
is
that
new
zealanders
actually
quite
enjoy
their
own
country,
and
I
think
that's
what
we
find
this
year.
It's
quite
interesting,
even
although
there's
been
no
marketing
internationally
by
us
in
any
shape
or
form
the
day
that
we
opened
our
edinburgh
information
center
in
the
high
street.
The
first
50
people
through
the
door
were
international
visitors
from
from
europe
and
from
north
america.
Funnily
enough,
so
I
think,
there's
absolutely
a
demand
there
and
a
a
latent
need
for
visitors
from
international
destinations.
B
I
take
the
point
about
sustainability.
Patrick
harvey
made
it
very
strongly
earlier
on.
I
think
it
is
about
balance
and
it's
not
excluding
anyone.
It's
just
trying
to
make
sure
that
we
get
the
balance
of
visitation
right
and
the
messaging
right,
but
I
I
have
to
believe
that
international
visitors
will
continue
to
be
a
key
component
of
our
market
going
forward.
C
Agree
with
all
of
that,
it
is
about
balance
again,
and
we
have
to
have
that
that
that
international
visitor
number
I
mean
the
irs.
You
referred
to
again
similar
situation.
Their
dependency
on
international
visitor
has
been
huge
and
they
are
seeing
local
people
exploring
home,
but
they
can't
their
business.
Their
industry
isn't
sustainable
without
that
international
market,
and
there
are
sectors
of
our
economy.
You
know
golf
tourism
in
particular,
I
talked
about
earlier
business.
J
So
I
think
that's
important
to
take
into
account
when
one
looks
at
them
the
money
we
want
to
see
get
into
our
tourist
industry,
and
I
want
to
really
focus
on
the
the
14
million
pound
hotel
recovery
program,
and
I
do
have
an
interest
in
this
and
one
constitution
say
two
of
my
largest
hotels,
the
cml,
hydro
and
aquarium
resort
and
between
them
employ
almost
400
people
directly
and
that's
obviously
not
including
the
supply
chain.
So
I'm
just
wondering
how
we
can
make
that
fund
work
more
effectively.
J
J
So
if
we
put
that
14
million
pounds
in
perspective
and
and
should
they
get
to
them,
the
grant
the
grants
it's
a
wrap
around
program-
I
understand
you
know
not
just
not
just
a
fund
should
be
based
on,
for
example,
guarantees
that
the
hotel
would
not
close
over
the
next
six
months
or
retain
a
certain
number
of
employees
or
have
a
number
of
employees.
Should
it
be
based
on
turnover,
occupation
rates,
room
numbers.
B
Yeah,
I
think
you're
right,
the
perception
of
it
just
being
money
I
think
was-
was
wrong.
It
has
to
be
more
than
that.
It's
interesting.
We
provide
quite
a
lot
of
support
to
individual
businesses
in
terms
of
their
marketing,
reviewing
their
their
websites,
making
them
more
efficient
and
effective
in
terms
of
getting
their
own
visitors
and
getting
up
to
speed
with
digital
promotion
and
marketing.
So
I
think
flexibility
has
to
be
the
name
of
the
game.
B
I
know
that
the
people
that
have
been
working
on
developing
the
scheme
have
looked
at
and
it's
been
changing
as
as
as
the
program
develops
at
a
whole
range
of
different
things.
Initially,
the
focus
was
on
employee
retention,
so
that
was
the
key
focus
trying
to
make
sure
that
those
businesses
that
quite
a
lot
of
people
were
able
to
continue
employing
them.
But
I
think,
as
they've
looked
at
it
in
more
detail,
we
had
to
be
more
flexible
in
terms
of
the
criteria.
B
And
I
think
the
the
final
program
when
it's
announced
will
will
have
that
flexibility
but,
as
mark
said
earlier
on,
there's
a
significant
number
of
hotels
and
accommodation
providers
that
would
fall
into
that
that
scheme,
so
one
of
the
biggest
challenges-
14
million-
deems
a
lot
of
money,
but
in
the
big
picture
to
try
and
support
as
much
as
maybe
900
businesses
that
fall
into
that.
If
they
were
all
getting
some
kind
of
equal
share,
then
it's
not
going
to
go
too
far.
So
clearly
it
would
be
encouraging.
B
If,
if
that,
that
fund
was
able
to
be
increased
by
how
much
I
got
to
stay,
but
I
would
totally
agree
it
has
to
be
flexible
to
recognize
local
needs.
That's
why
I
think
it's
it's
good
that
the
three
enterprise
agencies
are
taking
a
view
of
their
local
area,
so
how
it
will
be
applied
in
the
south
will
be
different
to
the
highlands
will
be
different
to
to
the
scottish
enterprise
area
all
within
an
overall
umbrella.
B
C
C
Importantly,
it's
about
how
those
individual
businesses
are
able
to
again
support
the
local
economies
and
there
are
employee
numbers
that
are
again
linked
back
to
the
criteria
qualification
and
that
original.
The
original
proposal
has
again
been
flexed
recognizing
that
those
numbers
of
employees
and
businesses
today
are
probably
very
different
to
what
they
were
a
few
months
ago,
but
the
the
wrap
around
support
there
are
there
is,
you
know
there
are
various
different
types
of
support
and
it
will
be
specific
to
each
type
of
hotel.
C
You
can't
deny
the
fact
that
you
know
hotels
themselves
have
been
really
really
scrutinizing
every
possible
channel
and
avenue
they
could
go
down
to
make
sure
their
businesses
are
sustainable
and
efficient.
But,
as
I
said
earlier,
it's
it's
about.
How
can
those
businesses
accelerate
grow
job
opportunities
in
the
future
and
stay
in
in
good
in
in
business
to
be
able
to
respond
in
a
quick
way?
C
But
what
we
would
like
is
an
awful
lot
more
and
that
will
have
to
come
as
direct
intervention
through
a
broader
uk
package
of
support
to
to
be
able
to
do
that.
We
put
forward
some
initial
proposals,
just
sort
of
identifying
the
range
of
of
you
know:
hibernation
costs
of
business
which,
as
I
said
for
average
hotels
across
the
country
from
the
trump
turnbreeze.
C
C
C
J
I
think
what's
important
is
a
a
comment
that
the
sta
put
in
its
submission,
which
says
it,
and
I
quote:
tourism
requires
a
detailed
solution
and
some
of
the
the
funds
that
we've
talked
about.
For
example,
you
know
you
know
the
20
million
pound,
creative
tourism,
hospitality,
enterprise,
hardship,
fund,
pivotal
funds,
spend
breakfast
and
breakfast
hardship
fund
and
two
new
m50
packages
worth
50
million
pounds.
There's
been
a
lot
of
kind
of
dripping
tap
effect.
J
So
what
kind
of
detailed,
comprehensive
wrap-around
solution
are
you
looking
for?
I
mean
you
talked
about,
for
example
the
uk.
You
I
take
it.
What
you
would
like
is
the
uk
and
the
scottish
government
to
sit
down
and
produce
a
kind
of
envelope
which
includes
all
the
kind
of
issues
which
are
affecting
the
industry
with
realistic
funding,
I
mean.
Obviously,
you
won't
get
everything
that
you're
looking
for,
given
the
the
the
the
tightness
of
funding,
but
what
what
would
be
the
key
components?
And
how
could
we
structure
that
detailed,
a
solution
mark.
C
They've
all
been
very
welcomed,
but
we
do
need
to
have
as
an
industry
a
much
more
clear
line
of
sight
and
pathway
to
recovery
and
the
the
task
force
recommendation
both
from
a
scottish
perspective-
and
I
also
said
on
the
uk
tourism
industry
council,
where
there's
a
similar
visitor
economy
recovery
program
task
was
taking
place.
There
is
ultimately
to
set
out
the
the
the
asks
and
the
proposals
that
would
actually
enable
businesses
to
plan
ahead
and
build
their
recovery
in
a
much
more
structured
way.
C
So
we
understand
that
we're
not
going
to
be
sort
of
having
to
maybe
wait
and
see
too
often
of
whether
we
will
or
we
won't
get
but
some
examples.
You
know
the
the
extension
of
the
vat
reduction
for
hospitality
beyond
2021
delaying
that
payments
beyond
march
21,
the
extension
of
the
furlough
scheme
deferring
initial
payments
on
the
sea
bills
programme.
C
You
know
looking
at
the
repayment
programs
but
introduced,
maybe
this
this
discussions
around
soft-backed
government-backed
soft
equity
loan
schemes,
the
rates
relief
for
a
continuation
beyond
the
the
current
year
with
any
sort
of
with
it
with
a
you
know
into
21.
22
would
be
absolutely
you
know
a
big
big
game
change
for
many.
C
So
having
that
those,
though
that
framework
set
out
and
that
pathway
with
commitments
from
from
government,
both
scottish
and
uk
governments
is,
is
really
something
the
industry
will
would
welcome
to
allow
that
planning
process
to
think
about
their
workforce
development,
but
jumping
as
we
have
had
to
do,
and
I
don't
get
me
wrong.
I
think
the
responses
have
been
very
timely
and
in
many
cases
in
quite
incredible
how
grants
have
been
made
available
at
relatively
short
notice.
C
B
No,
I
I
think,
actually
your
your
opening
remarks
asking
the
question
were
absolutely
spot
on
it.
It
can't
be
about
purely
about
money.
It
has
to
be
a
whole
series
of
initiatives.
I
think
the
one
thing
we've
learned
is
that
all
these
funds
have
been
welcomed,
but
they
have
been
in
some
cases.
I
need
you
to
a
particular
issue,
I'm
thinking
about
the
self-catering
fund,
where
a
number
of
people
slipped
through
the
the
gaps
there
and
that
we've
we've
tried
to
fill
that,
but
I
think
it's
more
than
purely
money.
B
A
B
Yeah
see
quite
significantly,
as
you
could
imagine
so,
a
lot
of
we
had
just
finished
all
our
budget
planning
and
allocated
resources
accordingly
and
then
lo
and
behold
the
virus
hit.
So
what
we've
done
is
we've
basically
repurposed
everything.
The
strongest
focus
of
our
budget
now
is
is
on
marketing
at
a
time
when
we're
able
to
spend
that-
and
we
were
able
halfway
through
the
year-
and
I
detected
a
real
concern
amongst
destination
organizations
that
they
could
be
struggling
with
their
membership
subscriptions.
B
So
we
set
up
a
separate
fund
from
our
own
budget
and
to
support
them,
and
we
had
incredible
support.
Etiod
destination
and
sector
organizations
benefited
from
half
a
million
pounds.
We
waived
the
fee
for
quality
assurance,
which
was
a
one
million
pound
hit
in
our
budget.
But
again
we
felt
that
it
was
important
to
support
individual
businesses
who
were
committed
to
quality.
B
So
all
of
the
other
activity
that
was
planned
has
basically
been
put
on
hold.
You
can
imagine.
Our
travel
and
subsistence
budget
has
been
effectively
non-existent
because
staff
have
been
working
from
home
since
the
16th
of
march,
and
we
have
a
board
meeting
in
a
couple
of
weeks
time
to
revisit
the
budget
going
forward.
So
it's
been
completely
repurposed.
B
The
other
thing
to
say
is
that
encouraged
by
the
industry
and
part
of
the
emergency
response
group,
we've
put
in
quite
a
significant
bid
for
additional
resources
for
the
end
of
this
year
and
next
year
from
scottish
government
across
the
three
main
strands
of
the
tourism
task
force
around
stimulating
demand
around
support
for
business
and
also
significantly
about
infrastructure
trying
to
extend
the
reach
of
the
tourism
infrastructure
fund,
which
is
a
three
million
pound
budget.
In
the
current
year.
We've
already
got
bids
that
potentially
will
come
through
to
the
tune
of
12
million.
B
B
B
I
think
is
next
week
when
the
submissions
are
going
into
the
cabinet
secretary
for
them
to
then
be
considered
in
terms
of
appropriate
resourcing
so
yeah
we
it's
been,
I
think,
very
encouraging
to
be
working
with
the
industry
in
a
way
that
enables
us
to
strengthen
our
case
to
government.
It's
not
just
here
to
visit
scotland
asking
for
more
money.
This
is
about
visit
scotland
as
part
of
a
wider
approach
that
has
the
support
of
the
industry
going
into
that
budget
reassessment
process.