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From YouTube: Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Affairs Committee [BBC Evidence Session] - 8 November 2018
Description
www.parliament.scot
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The Committee will meet at 9:00 am in the Mary Fairfax Somerville Room (CR2)
1. Presidency of the Council of the European Union: The Committee will take evidence from-
H.E. Michael Zimmermann, Ambassador of the Republic of Austria to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
2. BBC annual report and accounts: The Committee will take evidence from-
Anne Bulford, Deputy Director-General, BBC;
Donalda MacKinnon, Director, BBC Scotland;
Steve Morrison, Member for Scotland, BBC.
3. BBC annual report and accounts (in private): The Committee will consider the evidence heard earlier in the meeting.
4. Work programme (in private): The Committee will consider its work programme.
Proposed future business
For further information, contact Stephen Herbert, Clerk to the Committee, at europe@parliament.scot or 0131 348 5234.
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Published by the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body.
www.parliament.scot // We do not facilitate discussions on our YouTube page but encourage you to share and comment on our videos on your own channels. // If you would like to join in our conversations please follow @ScotParl on Twitter or like us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/scottishparliament
A
Our
second
item
of
business
today
is
an
evidence
session
with
the
BBC.
I
would
like
to
welcome
the
witnesses
and
bill
foots
deputy
director-general
of
the
BBC
DiNardo
McKinnon,
the
director
of
BBC
Scotland
and
Steve
Morrison,
a
member
for
the
member
for
Scotland
on
the
BBC
board,
and
I
would
like
to
invite
Steve
Morrison
to
make
a
short
opening
statement.
Good.
B
Morning,
thank
you
for
inviting
us
here
today
can
be
known.
I
hardly
need
to
make
a
few
introductions,
but
for
those
of
you
who
haven't
met
us
I'm,
Steve
Morrison
and
I'm,
the
member
for
Scotland
on
the
BBC
board.
I've
worked
in
television
for
45
years,
predominantly
for
Granada,
where
I
was
the
chief
executive
and
then
I
found
it
all
three
media
which
became
the
largest
independent
group
of
television
production
companies
in
the
UK
and
currently
has
20
companies
around
the
world.
B
The
role
of
the
Scottish
member
on
this
new
BBC
board
is
to
ensure
that
the
views
of
the
Scottish
population
are
represented
and
reflected
in
the
BBC's
output
and
to
engage
with
stakeholders
and
license
fee
payers
in
Scotland
to
ensure
that
the
BBC
assesses
and
meets
the
needs
of
our
diverse
community.
As
a
member
of
this
board,
obviously
I'm
also
involved
in
discussion
and
decision
making
on
the
global
issues
facing
the
BBC
and
also
sits
on
the
main
BBC
board.
I
chair,
the
Scott
Committee,
which
oversees
and
monitors
BBC
Scotland's
strategy
and
output.
B
B
This
growth
will
bring
significant
new
jobs,
80
extra
rules
in
journalism,
50
already
appointed
another
88
new
jobs
in
digital
and
engineering
by
the
end
of
March
2019,
and
with
additional
posts
to
support
the
new
channel
and
growth
in
other
parts
of
the
BBC
in
Scotland.
This
will
take
us
to
around
270
new
posts
by
the
end
of
March,
including
ten
trainee
journalists
and
ten
prentices.
B
B
Consequently,
I've
played
a
part
in
engaging
with
creative
Scotland
and
encouraging
it
to
strengthen
its
television
and
screen
content
strategy
and
to
form
a
successful
partnership
with
the
BBC.
A
new
Memorandum
of
Understanding
between
the
BBC
and
creative
Scotland
is
nearly
ready
to
be
introduced
and
I
was
pleased
to
see
the
Scottish
government
put
an
extra
10
million
pounds
into
creative
Scotland's
budget
to
help
drive
this
new
strategy.
B
At
the
same
time,
as
you
know,
channel
4
is
setting
up
a
new
hub
in
Glasgow,
and
the
national
film
and
television
school
Scotland
has
been
set
up
in
Pacific
key
with
help
from
the
BBC
and
the
Scottish
government.
Speaking
as
I
do
as
the
national
film
schools.
First
graduate
I'm
delighted
about
this
new
development
and
you'll
hear
more
about
it
from
Donalda
overall
I'm,
very
proud
to
be
the
board
member
for
Scotland.
At
this
point,
the
point
of
its
biggest
investment
in
programs
and
services
for
Scotland
in
a
generation.
Thank
you
can
be
enough.
B
A
Now
this
year
the
amount
of
the
licence
fee
spent
in
Scotland
has
actually
fallen
on
last
year,
and
this
wee
behind
it
remains
we
behind
wheels
in
Northern
Ireland
68%,
just
over
16
percent
is
spent
in
Scotland,
and
that
compares
to
ninety
two
point:
three
percent
in
wheels
and
88
percent
in
Northern
Ireland.
Given
that
this
issue
comes
up
repeatedly
when
the
BBC
come
before
the
committee,
why
is
the
situation
not
improving?
A
B
Thanks
very
much
convener.
In
fact,
the
situation
is
improving
in
2015
16.
The
percentage
of
the
license
fees
spent
in
Scotland
was
sixty
five
point:
nine
percent
in
2017
18.
It
will
be
sixty
eight
point,
eight
percent,
and
in
the
year
we're
in
which
is
eighteen
nineteen.
It
will
be.
Seventy
six
point:
seven
percent.
When
the
new
BBC
channel
transmits
for
a
whole
year,
it
will
be
nudging
towards
eighty
percent
now.
The
reason
why
there
has
been
a
network
drop
and
TV
spend
in
2017-18
is
largely
due
to
delayed
transmissions
of
two
programmes.
A
B
I
can
answer
that
very
clearly.
There
is
no
real
comparison
between
Scotland,
Wales
and
Northern.
Ireland
Wales
has
been
chosen
by
the
BBC
as
a
federal
center
for
drama,
so
you'll
know
programs
like
casualty
dr.,
who
look
are
now
all
produced
out
of
Cardiff.
These
programs
are
not
portrayal
programs
about
Wales.
They
are
regular
programs
standards
that
the
BBC
has
made
for
many
years
and
the
BBC
chose
to
establish
a
major
drama
production
centre
in
Cardiff,
whereas
before
they
were
made
elsewhere.
That's
why
Wales
has
got
a
disproportionate
amount
of
spend.
B
Northern
Ireland
is
totally
different.
Northern
Iowa
is
a
much
smaller
area
than
Scotland,
but
it
still
is
obliged
to
make
local
news
programs
and
current
affairs,
and
these
programs
cost
roughly
the
same
whatever
size
of
the
population
and
therefore
is
quite
natural
that
in
a
small
area,
their
percentage
of
Spain
would
be
higher.
May
I
just
say
my
own
personal
opinion
about
this.
I
do
not
believe
that
the
BBC
should
end
up
trying
to
invest
or
put
on
the
screen.
B
A
hundred
percent
of
the
licence
fee
in
a
form
of
quota
I
believe
we
are
progressing
towards
what
will
probably
be
around
80
percent,
but
I.
Think
the
people
in
Scotland
would
appreciate
big
national
international
programs
like
the
BBC
World
Service,
the
Commonwealth
Games,
the
European
athletic
championships,
Blue
Planet.
None
of
these
things
count
in
the
funny
way
that
all
these
hours
are
calculated,
even
if,
as
in
the
case
of
the
athletics
championship,
the
European
Championship
they
were,
half
of
them
were
actually
produced
in
Scotland.
B
So
we
have
to
allow
for
certain
if
you
like
central
major
programs
to
be
funded
throughout
the
UK,
and
that
includes
Scottish
participation.
Secondly,
this
is
a
creative
business
and
I
think
it's
very
important
to
give
the
commissioners
some
Headroom
so
that
they
can
Commission
the
best
ideas,
the
best
dramas,
the
best
comedies
from
wherever
they
come.
B
Having
said
that,
I
think
we're
all
pleased
to
develop
the
percentage
and
increase
the
investment
in
Scotland,
as
I
announced
in
my
opening
statement,
because
in
the
end,
what
we
all
really
want
is
a
larger,
sustainable
indigenous
creative
industry
of
television
production
in
Scotland
and
later
on.
In
this
interchange,
I
think
we
should
come
back
to
that
and
the
ways
to
do
it
because
we're
all
really
working
in
the
same
direction.
I'm.
A
Really
surprised,
we
said
the
opening
of
your
remarks
there
and
mr.
Morrison,
but
you
you
said
that
the
reason
for
the
high
spend
and
wheels
was
returning
Network
dramas,
because,
of
course,
this
committee
and
the
screen
sector
leadership
group
and
just
about
every
major,
a
commentator
in
Scotland
has
commented
in
the
fact
that
is
the
lack
of
returning
high-quality
drama
that
is
pushing
the
spend-down
in
Scotland
and
I
was
surprised
that
you
you're
using
that
as
a
justification
for
the
figures.
B
All
in
favor
of
you
of
us
all
having
more
returnable
dramas
in
Scotland,
the
only
point
I
was
making
was,
if
you
take
three
bankers
which
are
casualty,
Sherlock
and
Doctor
Who,
and
you
put
them
in
one
place,
they
could
actually
be
made
anywhere
because
they're
not
particularly
local
to
Wales.
Then
you
will
get
high
numbers,
which
it
should
be.
Our
objective
to
find
dramas
like
Northern
Ireland
did,
with
line
of
duty
to
find
dramas
that
are
returning,
as
Shetland,
for
example,
is,
is
about
to
go
into
series.
A
And
obviously
you
have
an
obligation,
though,
in
your
charter,
to
develop
the
creative
economies
of
of
the
nations,
and
anything
could
just
point
out
that
you
know
I
thought
that
was
quite
interesting
figures
in
terms
of
the
BBC
headcount
as
a
sheet
of
the
total
population
of
of
that
nation
and
in
in
Scotland,
and
the
head
count
is
exactly
the
same
as
Wales,
and
but
it's
a
law
percentage
of
the
population.
So
in
terms
of
the
population
of
Scotland,
a
much
lower
percentage
is
employed
by
the
BBC
in
Scotland
than
in
wheels.
Well.
B
What
I
was
explaining
in
my
introduction
is
the
BBC
in
Scotland
is
adding
270
new
posts.
That
is
a
very,
very
large
percentage
of
the
existing
headcount
and
will
increase
it
quite
dramatically.
The
reason
why
Wales,
as
I
explained
earlier
as
a
disproportionate
number,
is
that
they
have
a
very
large
UK
based
drama
centre,
which
requires
a
lot
of
people
working
on
those
programs.
I'm
perfectly
happy
to
share
with
you
the
objective
of
finding
long-running
successful
dramas
and
comedies
for
Scotland
from
Scotland
to
the
UK
Network.
B
A
B
As
you
can
imagine,
I'm
quite
a
pushy
person
and
Scotland
in
an
overall
context,
which
is
actually
very
challenging.
As
you
know,
the
UK
government
has
transferred
to
the
BBC
the
responsibility
for
the
over
75
s
free
licenses
and
if
that
concession
continued,
that
would
take
up
20%
of
the
BBC's
licence
fee.
Now,
I
can't
really
comment
on
that,
because
we're
going
to
go
into
a
public
consultation
on
it
and
then
the
board
will
discuss
it.
B
C
You
convenor
I'd
like
to
focus
on
BBC
news
and
current
affairs
at
first
and
a
couple
of
specific
instances,
I
think
indicate
our
wider
su
and
so
news
night
earlier
this
year
run
a
package
from
the
Institute
of
Economic
Affairs
to
remember
their
staff
advocating
the
privatisation
of
the
NHS.
The
IEA
are
one
of
the
least
transparent,
think
tanks
in
Europe
they're
registered
as
an
education
charity,
but
there's
a
lot
of
deep
skepticism
about
that.
C
We
do
know
that
they're
funded
by
Beck
tobacco
companies,
for
example,
who
advocate
against
public
health
measures
and
Curly,
have
a
vested
interest
and
policies
related
to
health
care.
We
know
that
ahead
of
the
I
ye
give
32,000
pounds
to
the
now
Secretary
of
State
for
Health
and
the
UK
government.
Their
head
of
health
policy
claimed
all
doctors
are
communists
and
they
were
allowed
to
run
a
package
through
the
BBC
advocating
for
the
privatisation
of
the
NHS.
C
C
Would
be
helpful,
but
I
want
to
stack
with
this
issue.
No,
because
it's
indicative
of
a
wider
issue
and
I
would
like
you
to
explain
to
me
and
perhaps
I
would
be
able
to.
Why
does
the
BBC
offer
platforms
to
organizations
who
have
no
donor
transparency,
but
for
which,
in
this
case,
there
is
clear
suspicion
that
private
healthcare
companies
who
have
a
vested
interest
and
what
this
package
was
advocating
are
in
fact
funding
the
organization
who
was
given
the
platform?
C
B
Seen
this
item
so
I
can't
really
comment
on
this
individual
item.
In
general,
the
BBC
has
a
very,
very
long-standing,
robust
process
for
ensuring
impartiality
and
balance,
particularly
in
news
and
current
affairs,
and
we
have
a
very
rigorous
system
if
anything
comes
up
that
goes
outside
those
rules.
I'm.
C
D
Now,
if
there
is
a
specific
complaint,
where
the
context
of
those
views
is
felt
not
to
be
sufficiently
clear
and
being
made
clear
to
our
audience,
and
that
challenge
seems
in
some
way
to
be
inappropriate,
then
we
have
channels
to
enable
people
to
raise
complaints
about
that,
and
we
would
consider
that
properly.
But.
C
Before
it
gets
to
the
complaint
process,
what
I'm
asking
again
is
why
does
the
BBC
as
a
general
rule,
our
organizations
like
the
IEA
by
the
taxpayers
Alliance,
which
is
not
a
membership
organization,
represents
taxpayers.
It's
just
a
company
owned
by
two
guys.
Why
are
these
organizations
who
have
no
transparency
behind
their
financial
arrangements,
allowed
to
comment
on
issues
of
public
policy
related
clearly
to
those
who
are
believed
widely
to
funding
that
well.
D
Our
job
is
to
enable
a
range
of
views
to
be
put
forward
and
for
those
views
to
be
challenged
through
our
journalism,
as
I
say,
the
very
specific
point
that
you
raised.
We
can
look
at
that
and
and
reply
on
that
point.
It's
not
it's
not
an
issue
that's
been
raised
with
me
before,
but
my
clear
understanding
of
what
we
seek
to
do
in
our
journalism
is
to
challenge
not
to
provide
platform.
C
That
answer,
but
I,
don't
think
we're
gonna
get
any
further
and
to
move
on
to
a
related
issue,
but
not
not
our
own
and
financing.
You'll,
be
aware
of
the
controversy
around
the
invitation
of
the
white
nationalist
Steve
Bannon
to
a
BBC
EBU
event
that
the
First
Minister
has
withdrawn
from.
At
what
point
do
you
have
to
balance
out
what
you
would
regard
as
public
interest
of
challenging
views,
which
I
accept
that
those
arguments
have
been
rehearsed
with
views
that
are
simply
beyond
the
peal
of
acceptable
public
debate?
C
No
matter
how
wide
you
try
and
have
the
spectrum,
for
example,
public
debate.
The
the
first
minister
said
that
the
BBC's
response
to
her
describe
mr.
bannon
as
a
powerful
and
influential
figure
promoting
an
anti
elite
movement.
Well,
he
promotes
a
pro-white
movement.
He
is
a
white
nationalist
at
what
point
is
someone
beyond
the
pale
I
mean
you
wouldn't
have
someone
who
would
advocate
Holocaust
denial,
Steve
Bannon
has
associated
with
Holocaust
deniers.
Where
does
the
wine
get
drawn
asked.
E
First
of
all,
mr.
Kiir,
a
we
respect
the
person
ministers
decision
not
to
participate
in
the
news
exchange
conference,
a
it
was
reported
in
the
press
that
BBC
Scotland
had
invited
SD
pan,
and
that
is
not
the
case.
The
conference
is,
you
rightly
point
out,
is
an
EBU
European
broadcaster
broadcasting
Union
a
conference
and
the
BBC
is
a
member.
E
C
You
recognise
the
concern
about
this,
but
it's
not
just
on
mr.
Vernon's
history
as
a
white
nationalist,
but
the
long
history
of
the
platforming
of
those
of
extreme
far-right
views
under
the
guise
of
challenging
them
for
those
views,
but
which
has
resulted
in
the
absolute
opposite.
We've
got
a
solid
centuries
worth
of
evidence
of
that
being
the
case.
I.
E
A
F
Was
just
to
see
is
another
case
of
Nick
Griffin's
appearance
on
question
team
actually,
ultimately
led
to
the
effect
of
destruction
of
that
political
party
by
exposing
his
ludicrous
views
to
the
rest
of
the
the
United
Kingdom.
Who
perhaps
were
not
that
it
were.
We
an
awesome
and
the
party
went
and
a
precipitous
decline
as
a
result
of
that.
G
There
has
been
a
reduction
over
that
period
of
eight
point,
six
percent,
so
perhaps
we
could
hear
why
that
is.
And
secondly,
if
the
plans
that
Mr
Morrison
referred
to
are
just
bringing
you
back
to
where
you
where,
because
it
seems
that
that's
quite
a
considerable
drop
in
terms
of
these
particular
so.
B
I'm
going
to
ask
the
Nelda
to
talk
more
closely
about
BBC
Alba,
but
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
over
the
last
three
years
we
have
increased
our
investment
in
BBC
Alba
from
five
point:
five
million
pounds
a
year
and
said
this
year,
which
is
not
in
your
current
brief
because
we're
looking
at
last
year,
but
last
year
we
spent
7.9
million,
and
this
year
we're
in
we're
going
to
spend
9.1
million.
Now
I
recognize
the
two
things
you
refer
to,
which
are
the
weekend
news
and
the
extra
hours
of
programming,
and
particularly
children's
dono.
E
So
I
think
what
you're
seeing
there
is
a
fluctuation
in
terms
of
the
numbers
of
repeats
of
programs
and
in
in
these
genre
that
you
identify
and
in
any
given
year,
you
will
have
a
fluctuation
in
the
numbers
of
programs
in
these
areas
that
are
transmitted
on
BBC
alpha,
as
Steve
has
just
said.
We
have
continued
to
increase
their
investment
in
BBC
alpha.
G
G
G
E
A
for
example,
which
is
based
on
source
offered
we've
just
recently
again
to
coincide
of
the
10th
anniversary,
introduced
a
new
children's
programs,
new
originations,
which
will
come
up
in
the
figures
next
year,
they're
not
there
yet
and
but
we're
looking
at
roughly
six
years
a
year
of
additional
children's
originations
and
then
over
and
above
that
and
some
reversion
in
not
a
year.
It's
also
been
a
strategic
and
ambition
for
Bebe's
helper
to
concentrate
on
children
and
young
people
and
given
the
growth,
a
of
numbers
of
speakers
in
that
naughty
area
and.
G
Thank
you,
I
mean,
obviously
in
terms
of
the
reference
that
mr.
Morris
made
to
the
overall
budget
increase
we've
not
yet
seen
the
figures
for
over
the
last
year
of
some
to
moe,
so
I
mean
obviously
that
represents
I,
would
imagine
possibly
around
a
couple
of
years
salary
for
some
of
the
BBC's
highest-paid
presenters
and
executives,
but
be
that,
as
it
may
and
I
just
I'm
concerned
about
the
impact
of
potential
impacts
on
the
screen
sector
in
Scotland
and
all
the
excellent
potential
technicians
and
so
forth.
G
E
Currently
for
BBC
opera,
and
indeed
for
the
New
Scotland
Channel,
we're
working
with
the
New
Scotland
channel
when
about
70
75
different
companies
and
I,
think
that
will
ensure
a
lot
of
job
creation
in
the
market
over
and
above
the
the
job
creation
that
Steve
mentioned
in
terms
of
what
we
do
within
the
BBC,
but
also
for
BBC
alpha
beeps
alpha
Commission's
about
75%,
sometimes
more
than
that
of
its
output
from
independent
production
companies.
So
I
think
you
know,
aside
from
the
spend
on
the
actual
program.
E
So
then
again
is
the
multiplied
effect
so
for
every
pound.
I
think
what
that
translates
into
least
two
pounds
of
value,
so
I
think
I
think
the
investment
is
significant
and
and
I
do
think
that
we
are
encouraging
EM
skills
and
new
a
and
we
have
lots
of
training
schemes
we
have
aside
from
a
n
FTEs,
which
Steve
mentioned,
we've
also
got
apprentices.
We
have
general
some
trainees,
we've
recruited
about
51,
new
journalists
and
positions
of
the
80
that
we
have
to
recruit
further,
that
for
the
new
service
for
the
new
9
o'clock
news.
E
B
I
was
very
fortunate
to
do
when
I
was
appointed
was
I
was
taken
by
Margaret,
Mary
Murray
to
Inverness
and
Skye,
and
in
Skye
they
were
making
in
the
Galaxy
King
further
education
College
the
Gallic
drama
bannin,
which
has
actually
been
very
successful
and
for
the
size
of
that
channel,
was
quite
a
very,
very
significant
undertaking,
much
more
expensive
than
you
would
expect.
Well,.
G
A
H
You
talk
about
being
ambitious
and
bold,
and
we
already
heard
that
there
are
a
number
of
occasions
where
there
seems
to
be
an
a
decrease
in
some
areas
and
especially
when
were
looking
at
the
local
content,
there
has
been
a
decrease
in
that.
Can
I
ask
why
why
that
has
been
prioritized
in
that
way.
The.
B
The
local
spend
for
this
year
is
0.9
million
down
from
2016
17
in
2017
18.
Now
in
2016-17,
the
figures
benefited
from
two
series
of
two
doors
down
which
transmitted
in
the
financial
year
compared
to
one
series
in
2017
18,
and
the
cost
of
comedy
is
such
that
not
having
a
series
of
comedy
would
easily
take
up
that
kind
of
sum
of
money.
B
In
addition,
the
transmission
of
still
games
series
8
cross
the
two
financial
years
with
two
episodes
transmitting
in
the
2018-19
financial
year,
which
is
not
the
year
the
year
that
you're
referring
to,
but
it's
just
an
accident
of
timing
and
the
availability
of
talent
that
just
pushed
two
episodes
out
of
one
financial
year
into
another.
So
there's
no
intent
here
to
reduce
the
local
span.
Quite
the
opposite.
Okay,.
H
You
talked
about
the
availability
of
talents,
I
think
one
of
the
biggest
issues
that
the
BBC
have
faced
of
late
has
been
the
gender
pay
gap
and
that
has
rocked
the
BBC
shocked
the
community
at
large
and
it
has
damaged
the
reputation
of
the
BBC.
So
can
I
ask
how
BBC
Scotland
are
tackling
that
issue
to
ensure
that
we
here
in
Scotland,
are
seen
as
managing
that
crisis,
that
you
know,
faith
well.
B
D
You
in
terms
of
the
gender
pay
gap
overall,
what
we
reported
in
the
financial
year
that
we're
looking
at
here
is
the
reduction
in
the
gender
pay
gap
across
the
whole
of
the
BBC.
From
nine
point
three
to
seven
point:
six,
which
is
is
not
where
we
want
to
be
we're
working
to
drive
that
down
further,
but
it
represents
that
some
good
progress
in
the
year
the
gender
pay
gap
in
Scotland.
D
D
So
one
of
the
things
which
I
think
is
very
very
encouraging
about
some
of
the
new
jobs
in
scotland
is
of
the
jobs
that
steve
referred
to
at
the
start
of
the
session
towards
90
of
those
are
in
technology,
which
is
great
because
that's
part
of
of
the
BBC,
that's
growing
in
new
technologies
in
digital
technologies
and
something
like
40%
of
those
roles
that
have
been
recruited
so
far
have
been
to
women,
which
is
a
really
good
feeder
improvement.
So
the
the
the
the
BBC
is
working
very
hard
on
all
issues
of
driving.
D
The
gender
pay
got
that
structural
issue
about
what
we
need
to
do
to
encourage
our
women
to
progress
and
to
move
through
the
organization
into
more
senior
roles
and
into
those
areas
of
the
BBC
where
they're
underrepresented.
In
some
cases
where
the
higher
paid
was
really
at
the
heart
of
the
career
progression
study
that
Donalda
led
here
from
Scotland
but
on
behalf
of
the
whole
of
the
BBC,
and
that
was
one
of
five
studies
that
we
did
with
our
staff
consulting
widely
about
barriers
to
progress.
D
And
so
we've
completed
similar
studies
around
disability,
which
was
published
earlier
this
week,
which
I
led
social
inclusion
led
by
my
colleague,
Alan
Devi,
who
runs
radio
3eme
red
button
led
by
Tim
Davey,
who
is
responsible
for
BBC
studios
on
on
the
main
board
with
me,
and
also
LGBT,
which
we
looked
at
but
I
think
pertinent
to
your
question.
The
most
important
is
actually
the
work
undertaken
very
successfully
by
Biden
Aldous
I.
Don't
if
you'd
like
to
talk
about
that,
maybe
some
of
the
local
initiatives
in
Scotland
on
your
progression.
So.
E
And
then
the
other
theme
was
around
flexibility,
flexible
working
and
how
so
wanted
to
offer
flexible
work,
not
just
to
women
actually
but
to
men
as
well,
and
to
make
it
the
default
position
across
the
BBC
and
then
there's
also
something
around
recruitment.
And
on
that
a
we
have
a
particular
opportunity
in
Scotland,
now
I
believe
to
experiment
and
pilot.
E
In
terms
of
how
we
go
about
recruiting
and
with
colleagues
elsewhere
in
the
BBC
who
are
also
looking
at
this-
and
we
have
undertaken
with
all
these
new
positions
to
increase
their
targets
in
terms
of
all
the
protected
area-
characteristics
that
and
refer
to
there,
but
particularly
as
far
as
gender
balance
is
concerned,
and
so
far
in
our
news
recruitment,
and
we
have
52
percent
of
women
appointed
to
the
rules.
And
somebody
did
ask
me
a
question
recently.
E
You
know,
were
we
in
some
way
a
in
danger
of
of
harming
quality
or
recruiting
the
right
people.
If
we
were
making
these
kinds
of
interventions
can
I
just
say.
This
is
absolutely
within
all
kinds
of
quality,
hit
legislation
adhering
to
that,
but
also,
and
that
we
are
actually
AM
sourcing,
excellent
women
who
will
be
brilliant
in
their
and
the
jobs
that
they've
been
appointed
and.
H
I
think
you
know
you've
identified
that
you
you're
tackling
that
issue
and
you've
been
late
to
the
table
in
some
respects
and
comparison
with
some
other
organizations
and
structures
around
and
and
you're
learning
from
other
organisations
what
you
can
achieve
and
how
you
can,
how
you
can
progress
that
and
and
can
I
ask
how
how
how
will
that
eventually
be
audited
and
and
scrutinized
to
ensure
that
we
will
see
a
at
rate
coming
through.
It's
not
just
a
blip
in
the
system
or
you've
attempted
to
support
some
mechanism
to
enhance
it
for
a
short
time.
D
D
People
from
the
license
fee
is
another
measure
that
is
monitored,
and
we
can
speak
more
about
that
if
that's
helpful,
but
in
addition,
what
the
the
Executive
Board
will
have
is
both
the
specific
recommendations
for
each
of
the
studies
and
a
consolidated
view
of
them,
so
that
we
can
monitor
on
a
regular
basis,
progress
against
those
actions
and
the
BBC
Board
can
take
additional
insurance
on
that
as
as
needs
be,
but
ultimately
the
measure
will
be
that
the
targets
that
we've
set
the
representation
are
achieved.
Okay,
thank
you.
We.
A
G
D
People
with
salaries
how
many
women
affected,
but
the
position
in
terms
of
looking
at
pay
and
equal
and
questions
of
equal
pay,
which,
of
course
different
from
the
gender
pay
gap,
which
is
at
the
heart
of
your
question
as
I
understand
it.
We
have
undertaken
fundamental
reform
of
the
way
in
which
we
manage
pay.
The
baby.
D
D
Tell
you
how
many
women
have
outstanding
questions
with
us
about
that
pay
which
we've
not
yet
worked
through.
So
at
the
moment
we
have
12
women
in
BBC
Scotland,
who
have
asked
us
to
look
at
their
pay
in
a
way
that
we're
seeking-
and
we
see
this
because
our
mechanic
with
this
is
we
audit.
We
check,
we
look
and
if
we
find
issues
we
correct
them
and
that's
this
is
the
heart
of
the
reform
of
our
paying
conditions
that
we've
undertaken.
D
In
addition
to
that,
anybody
across
the
BBC
men
and
women
can
raise
questions
about
their
pay
named
comparators
and
Aston
asked
us
to
look
at
this,
and
we've
had
very
many
queries
come
up
across
the
whole
of
the
BBC
about
that
the
vast
majority
of
them
very
straightforward
police
check,
my
pay.
Some
of
them
are
very
much
more
serious
questions
of
equal
pay,
which
date
back
over
many
years.
D
As
everyone
will
be
aware,
we
deal
with
those
questions
as
they
come
up
and
see
to
resolve
them
at
the
end
of
last
week,
which
was
and
I
look
at
progress
on
cases
every
week
in
an
effort
to
progress
and
speed
up
I
want
these
cases
dealt
with
as
quickly
as
possible,
just
as
everyone
else
does.
When
I
looked
at
those
figures
at
the
end
of
last
week,
there
were
12
people
in
Scotland,
I,
believe
they're.
All
women
who've
asked
us
to
look
at
their
pay
and
look
at
it
through
that
informal
resolution
stage.
D
I,
don't
know
whether
some
of
those
will
result
in
in
pay
increases
either
forwards
or
backwards.
Until
that
work
is
complete
and
there
are
four
women
in
Scotland
who've
moved
onto
the
moor.
Who've
asked
us
to
move
on
to
the
more
formal
grievance
stage
where
there
are
independent,
there's
an
independent
person
sitting
along
the
BBC
case
manager
from
outside
of
the
division.
Looking
at
the
case
that
doesn't
answer
your
question
because
I
don't
know
the
outcome
of
those
cases,
but
those
are
the
cases
where
the
questions
been
raised
right
now.
Okay,.
G
D
Very
much
Jim
McLean
at
different
stages
and
being
around
I
know
you
want
to
move
through
the
agenda,
but
just
to
be
clear
when
we're
speaking
about
informal
resolution,
we're
not
talking
about
something
which
lacks
rigour.
That
is
a
serious
piece
of
work
with
HR
professionals
and
legal
advice
taken
we're
needed
to
consider
the
issues
carefully.
However,
the
the
question
is
framed,
then,
when
it
moves
on
to
a
formal
stage,
that's
the
BBC's
internal
formal,
grievance
policy,
where
there's
also
an
independent
person
brought
in
to
look
at
the
questions
raised.
Okay,.
I
You
could
be
no
good
morning.
Final
can
I
ask,
can
I
start
first
of
all
by
saying
that
I
think
that
the
value
for
money
that
UK
audiences
get
from
the
a
license
for
his
tremendous
I
thought
think
I
said
enough:
I
subscribed
to
your
whole
minor
of
commercial
content
providers,
Netflix
sky
virgin,
etc
and
I
think
hundred
fifty
pounds
for
the
wide
breadth
of
content
of
a
guess
as
excellent
value.
I
No
I
appreciate
there
have
been
developments
for
BBC
three
I
appreciate
their
is
a
targeted
push
with
new
technical
developments
such
as
the
sounds
apt,
but
these
in
isolation
do
not
address
fundamental
problem
or
the
existential
problem
the
BBC
has
is
that
younger
audiences
are
shifting
to
commercial
content
providers.
What
are
you
doing
to
address
that.
B
Book
the
main
board
was
the
first
sort
of
organization,
because
we
get
monthly
audience
reports
to
begin
to
examine
and
we
announced
an
annual
report.
As
you
say,
this
was
now
one
of
the
biggest
issues
that
we
were
considering
and
working
out
how
to
correct.
So.
The
first
thing
is,
we
agree
with
you.
We
think
that
dropping
off
of
young
viewers
is
a
very
important
challenge
to
the
future
of
the
BBC.
B
Whilst
one
says
that
the
BBC
is
actually
the
the
first
media
organisation,
which
gets
the
most
time
spent
by
young
viewers,
so
we
are,
we
are
losing
viewers
but
we're
still
retaining
viewers.
Now,
last
week
we
took
the
Scotland
committee
to
dandy
and
after
the
committee
we
had
an
audience
engagement
session
with
about
25
18
to
34
year
olds,
asking
them
why
they
they
were
not
watching
the
BBC.
B
What
turned
out
was
they
were
watching
certain
individual
programmes
that
either
they'd
forgotten
or
had
absorbed
and
liked,
but
maybe
we're
not
necessarily
watching
them
on
a
BBC
screen,
so
they
might
be
watching
them
on
a
Netflix
screen
or
a
social
media
screen.
So
there
is
a
question
of
attribution
involved
here
where
some
people
don't
know
they're
actually
watching
it.
Presumably.
B
No,
it
is
public
service
programs
with
it
which
have
been
transmitted
but
are
then
transmitted
on
on
another
screen.
But
my
view
is:
we
have
to
take
quite
a
bold
view
of
this,
and
the
board
has
discussed
what
are
the
options
available
to
us
to
capture
more
younger
viewers.
If
there
are
basically,
two
categories
of
programs
are
affected.
B
D
I
think
you
raise
a
question.
We
consider
all
the
time
and
there's
a
relentless
focus
on
it.
I
think
it's
important
to
set
it
in
an
overall
context
in
that
75%
of
young
people,
that
we
speak
to
support
the
BBC's
mission
and
70%
of
them
believe
we
do
it
effectively.
So
there's
a
great
deal
of
support
for
the
BBC
amongst
younger
audiences.
Still,
we
are,
as
Steve
said,
the
largest
media
provider
for
young
adults
still
safer.
D
Sixteen
to
thirty
Falls
they're,
still
taking
eight
hours
a
week
from
the
BBC,
and
that's
that's
well
ahead
of
the
the
next
one
and
nine
in
ten
young
people
visit
BBC
online
in
a
given
month.
The
other
thing
I
think
that's
very
interesting,
and
we
picked
this
up
through
qualitative
discussions
such
as
the
the
the
session
that
Steve
just
referred
to
is
when
something
happens.
Young
people
still
come
to
the
BBC
for
their
for
their
news
to
feel
confident
about
it.
D
So
trusts
calls
for
the
young
for
the
BBC
50
well
about
50%
versus
single
digits,
low
single
digits,
for
example,
for
Facebook.
But
but
our
view
of
it
is
that
if
there
isn't
a
single
answer
to
it,
we
have
to
work
on
everything
and
think
about
youth.
So
that's
casting
that's
tone
of
voice.
That's
the!
How
we
manage
through
the
schedule
breaks
how
we
reach
out
on
people.
D
The
tone
of
our
our
programming
and
at
the
heart
of
it
is,
is
also
using
BBC
online
services
and
the
sign
in
mechanik
and
the
opportunity
to
personalize
and
direct
material
that
we
think
is
going
to
be
right
for
audiences
from
the
whole
of
the
BBC's
catalogue
in
a
very,
very
focused
way.
So
we
now
have
thirty
three
and
a
half
million
signed
in
users.
Very
many
of
those
are
young
people
and
there's
an
opportunity
there
to
mark
mark.
It's
not
a
word.
D
We
use
a
lot
but
to
market
and
to
show
them
the
breadth
and
the
range
that
we
have
in
the
BBC
and
to
encourage
them
to
come
to
us
and,
alongside
all
of
that,
one
of
the
other
areas
that
we've
redirected
resources
is
into
children's
programming
and
to
increase,
focus
there
and
allow
this
balance
between
investment
in
linear
and
investment
in
digital
services.
To
encourage
children
to
come
to
the
BBC
so
that
they
they
know
us
and
love
us
in
the
in
the
way
that
previous
generations
have.
B
I
Appreciate
your
warm
words
and
actions
on
that
and
I
do
wish
you
the
best
of
luck,
it's
a
competitive
environment
to
operate
and
that
to
that
audience,
if
I
could
move
on
to
I
think
Mike.
One
of
my
colleagues
is
going
to
talk
about
the
new
channel,
but
if
I
could
open
up
that
discussion
by
just
asking
a
short
question
on
it,
one
is
a
technical
one
and
that's.
I
Why
is
the
beauty
taking
the
decision
not
to
broadcast
that
channel
fully
in
HD
on
digital
terrestrial
and
chosen
only
to
deliver
it
on
an
evening
slot
I
presume
a
suit
availability
of
capacity
on
the
transponder
of
the
multiplexers,
but
is
that
because
there
is
simply
no
more
class
available
or
because
you've
made
taking
a
financial
decision?
That's
too
expensive
to
do
so.
That's
the
first
question
and
I'll
Park
that
and
the
second
part,
is
to
mr.
I
Morrison
or
Steve
for
me
and
that's
the
nuts
that
the
fact
that
you
come
from
interesting
background
and
that
you've
worked
in
the
commercial
production
sector.
Do
you
genuinely
think
that
the
introduction
of
a
new
BBC
Scotland's
channel
will
create
real
opportunities
in
the
independent
production
sector,
and,
if
so,
could
you
quantify
what
will
that
may
be?
Okay,
should
we
start
with
the.
E
I
I
mean
you
know
if
the
grouse
respect
that
doesn't
mean
that
daytime
audiences
are
forced
to
watch
the
program
and
SD
and
evening
audiences.
The
people
who
are
working
during
the
day
can
enjoy
an
HD.
You
know
in
the
modern
day,
an
age
when
you're
trying
to
compete,
as
we
just
discussed
with
commercial
operators.
You
know:
do
you
really
think
people
are
content
with
SD
broadcasts
and
big
screens
these
days.
D
E
B
You're
right,
I
have
launched
four
channels
myself
over
the
years
and
launching
a
channel
is
very,
very,
very
difficult
because
you
have
to
get
the
public
to
be
aware
that
that
channel
has
been
launched,
which
you
shouldn't
assume.
They
are
aware
and
to
know
the
button
the
spot
on
the
EPG
on
whichever
system
they're
watching
television,
and
then
they
have
to
feel
that's
a
channel
for
the,
and
these
are
all
big
things.
B
You're
launching
a
new
proposition,
however,
I
think
the
progress
so
far
suggests
that
the
production
community,
which
you
mentioned
the
independent
community
in
Scotland,
have
responded
to
this
very
well,
so
Steve
Carson
who's
in
charge
of
the
overall
commissioning
team
has
explained
to
us
that
they've
engaged
in
program
commissions
with
75
independent
production
companies,
they've
published
programme
tariffs,
and
there
was
a
loss
of
debate
at
the
beginning.
Whether
these
program
tariffs
would
be
high
enough
and
in
fact
the
production
community
have
responded
very
well
to
the
briefs,
the
commissioning
briefs
that
were
put
out.
B
So,
listening
to
your
question,
we're
on
it
and
the
guy
running,
it
is
very
confident
in
it
and
it's
presented
to
the
Scotland
committee
twice
and
we've
seen
the
schedule
develop,
so
I
have
great
hopes
for
it,
but
we
should
not
underestimate
that
we
are
launching
a
completely
new
channel
into
the
ether
and
we
shouldn't
imagine
that
mass
audience
will
suddenly
turn
up
to
it.
It
will
have
to
build
and
we'll
have
to
give
it
time
to
build.
We.
J
Thanks
and
feel
free
to
call
me
whatever
you
like,
I
yeah,
I'm
stuff
too
many
things
occasional
evening,
my
name
and
and
can
I
say
the
new
channels
gonna
broadcast.
Is
it
5
hours
a
day,
7
to
12
yeah
afternoon
yeah
and
accordingly
the
information
we
have
50
percent
these
shows
will
be
repeats
or
archived
programs.
How
long
will
the
9
o'clock
news
and
programmes
will
run
for
1.
J
So
we
have
to
the
is
going
to
be
unique
new
programming,
because
50%
is
going
to
be
repeats.
Another
is
going
to
be
news
bulletins,
they
the
the
main
news
program
and
there's
also
going
to
be
short
on
news
bulletins
throughout
the
day.
So
maybe
we
could
take
another
half
hour
that
so
what
pain
tell
it
to
million
for
one
hour
of
new
production
are.
B
J
B
B
What
I'm
saying
is
that
was
the
the
rule
or
the
the
the
term,
the
off
calm
laid
down.
What
we
found
in
the
beginning,
through
various
means,
is
that
we
are
commissioning
more
than
50%
of
originated
hours,
so
it
may
turn
out
that
we
end
up
with
more
I.
Don't
want
to
say
what
that
number
will
be,
because
we
don't
know,
but
it
may
be
that
it
is
considerably
more
than
50%.
We
have
to
see
how
the
money
and
the
programs
and
have
everything
beds
down
according.
B
B
There
would
be
little
point
in
taking
the
archived
programs
and
we
do
actually
have
archived
programs
on
the
iPlayer,
but
it'd
be
a
little
point
in
taking
all
the
archived
programs,
some
of
which
a
lot
of
people
want
to
see
off
that
channel.
If
that
meant
that
we
couldn't
afford
to
pay
the
program
tariffs
for
the
original
program
and
we
ended
up
with
a
lot
more
quantity
and
a
lot
less
quality.
So
when
you
launch
a
new
channel,
it
is
quite
normal
to
have
that
kind
of
balance
that
you
described.
B
If
you
watch
some
of
the
smaller
channels
are
available
in
the
digital
sphere,
you
will
notice
that
at
nine
o'clock,
that
is
an
hour
of
new
original
programming
and
around
those
hours,
those
peak
programmes.
There
are
other
kinds
of
programmes.
Some
might
be
acquisition.
Some
might
be
things
you've
seen
before
this
channel
is
actually
better
set
up
financially
than
virtually
any
digital
channel
in
the
rest
of
the
UK.
J
I
mean
I
think
that
should
ultimately
comes
down
to
the
quality
of
what
we're
going
to
be
watching
and
the
lessons
that
we're
in
from
htv-2.
We
are
you
know
at
times
nobody
was
watching
any
of
the
programs
because,
frankly,
they
were
repeats
off
repeats
of
repeat
you
know.
What
we
don't
want
to
us
is
that
we
become
Dave
and
that
we're
watching
you
know
the
dev
channel.
We
watch
Top
Gear
24
hours
a
day
if
you
are
so
mainly
to
import.
We
don't
want
to
be
watching
this.
This
hanging
carry
24
hours
a
day.
B
From
what
I've
seen
at
the
schedule
do
do
as
yeah
exactly
and
a
lot
of
people
watch
it,
but
from
what
I've
seen
of
the
schedule,
this
will
not
be
a
repeat
Channel.
This
will
be
an
originated
Channel.
The
question
is
how
you
use
your
32
million
pounds
wisely
to
get
an
audience
and
to
show
them
original
material
alongside
material.
You
know
they
already
like.
E
An
opportunity
now
to
do
things
that
we've
never
done
before,
like
experiment
and
in
the
nether
of
regions
of
the
schedule.
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
that
we're
we're
trying
to
target
a
younger
audience
not
were
the
earlier
hours
so
and
there
will
be
a
lot
of
new
and
innovative
and
possibly
some
risky
stuff
that
ain't
legit,
I'm,
confident
that
it
will
be.
It
will
offer.
A
Gamble,
given
that
young
people
are
watching
this
television-
and
we
want
this
to
succeed,
mr.
Morrison,
as
I
said
before,
we've
conducted
a
long-running
inquiry
into
the
screen
sites
in
Scotland.
Nothing
is
fairly
Universal
that
everybody
that
we
spoke
to
in
the
industry
said:
there's
not
enough
money
going
into
this
channel
and
I.
Think
that
the
questions
from
your
friendly
and
your
responses
of
seem
to
suggest
that
no,
we
know
some
of
the
programs
that
are
going
to
be
made.
A
B
A
B
Me
what
I
am
doing
so
number
one,
the
the
the
network
of
the
BBC,
both
financially
and
in
collaboration
on
programmes,
which
will
be
some
of
which
will
be
Co,
commissioned
by
the
channel
and
by
the
network,
are
being
extremely
supportive
in
helping
us
get
programs.
Otherwise
the
channel
on
its
own
could
not
afford
now.
I
can't
say
exactly
what
those
are,
because
that,
hopefully,
will
be
a
pleasant
surprise.
The
viewer
and
they
haven't
yet
been
announced.
B
A
B
No
just
let
me
answer
just
let
me
answer
the
thing.
We
have
persuaded
our
network
colleagues
to
help
us
financially
and
help
us
with
coal
commissioning
programs
to
give
this
channel
the
best
liftoff
it
possibly
can.
We
are
all
the
time
persuading
colleagues
both
on
the
board
and
on
the
executive
to
regard
it
as
a
priority
to
support
this
channel,
which
they
are
all
doing.
F
Much
kinder
light
snow
white's
bennett
delete
a
few
months,
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
concerns
the
public
is
the
kind
of
colossal
salaries
people
in
their
BBC.
You
know
things
from
football
pundits
today,
due
to
present
as
I've
been
paid
and
clearly
one
of
the
ways
in
which
you're
reducing
average
a
male
salary
and
therefore
the
gender
gap
was
by
replacing
you
know
some
people
when
they
like
Chris
Evans,
for
example,
with
females
who
any
a
lot
of
waste
money
such
as
Zoe
bulb.
F
If
we
go
into
the
the
Ofcom
report
was
published
into
a
fifth
of
October
and
the
report
concluded
that
viewers
in
scotland
watch
13%
more
BBC
TV
the
the
new
UK
average,
but
only
52
percent
of
people
in
scorn
to
have
a
favorable
overall
impressions.
We
we
see
compared
to
64%
of
all
UK
adults,
so
I'm
just
wondering.
Why
do
you
think
there
is
a
significant
difference?
And
how
will
this
will
the
channel
close
that
gap?
This
new
channel
can.
F
E
And
combination
of
of
diagnosis
around
around
that
and
in
many
ways,
I
do
hope
that
the
channel
will
go
some
way
to
address
it.
That
is
one
of
the
main.
The
underpinning
reasons
for
creating
it
and
I
also
think
to
have
an
hour-long
news
bulletin
at
the
heart
of
the
schedule
for
audiences
in
Scotland.
I
would
hope
will
improve
improve
these
general
impression
figures
that
were
talking
about,
and
it
has
long
been
a
case.
E
We
can't
replicate
what
they
do
with
this
new
channel,
but
and
I
think
when
we
look
at
some
of
the
the
drama
that's
been
commissioned
of
late
and
some
of
the
drama
that's
yet
to
appear
in
our
screens.
I
think
it
is
fair
to
say
and
I
do
I
agree
wholeheartedly
with
convener
and
a
returning
drama
would
be
fantastic.
E
You
could
argue
that
Shetland
is
that,
but
what
we
would
really
want
to
see
it's
something
that
was
perhaps
on
a
bit
more
more
frequently
and
but
when
we
do
look
at
some
of
the
stuff
that
has
come
through
Scotland
and
some
of
it
being
produced
by
brilliant
indigenous
companies,
I
think
it
is
really
heartening
and
I
think
we
have
the
wherewithal
know
to
address
some
of
that
that
perception
that
exists
there.
As
you
rightly
point
out,
we've
just
transmitted
the
cry
which
was
made
by
a
Scottish
company
synchronicity
a
co-production.
E
We've
got
six
by
forty
five
minutes
of
a
drama
called
click
which
is
aimed
at
younger
audiences.
We've
got
Shetland
five
coming
up
to
somebody
said,
and
we've
got
six
cities
in
development
and
we've
got
trust
me
cities
to
which
is
again
fooled
by
sixty
minute
drama,
beast
in
Scotland
shortened,
Scotland
and
we've
got
another
Commission
recently
announced
called
the
nest
which
again
six
hours.
These
will
all
make
a
difference,
I
believe
just
in
terms
of
people
feeling
that
they're
seeing
familiar
and
surroundings
that
so
to
see
it
they're
hearing
accents
which
reflect
their
reality.
E
B
The
recruitment
of
the
journalists
for
the
new
nine
that
the
new
news
hour,
they
are
going
all
over
Scotland
to
position
reporters
and
other
journalists
in
different
parts
of
Scotland.
So
everybody
is
absolutely
focused
on
what
you
just
described,
which
is
how
do
we
make
a
channel
that
reflects
modern,
Scotland
and
attracts
viewers
from
all
over
Scotland
because
they
see
themselves
or
people
like
themselves
on
it.
D
B
D
What
I
think
is
helpful
is
we
employ
twenty-five
to
thirty
thousand
on
our
presenters
over
the
course
of
the
year.
The
top
talent
list
that
is
published
people
pay
more
than
150
thousand
pounds
from
the
licence
fee
represent
0.2
percent
of
those
individuals,
1.4
percent
of
our
overall
spend,
but
the
programs
that
they
present
or
appear
on
make
up
forty
percent
of
our
overall
viewing
across
radio
and
TV,
so
I
think
that
sort
of
gives
you
a
sense
of
the
job
that
they
do
and
we
have
had
a
rigorous
program
over
recent
years.
D
It's
spoken
about
in
the
annual
report
in
the
talent,
a
section
of
managing
down
the
the
overall
talent
bill
and
the
proportion
of
our
talent
that
that
are
paid
at
that
highest
level,
but
by
bringing
on
more
people
looking
for
more
of
a
mix
and
indeed
in
many
cases,
managing
down
the
cost
of
talent
over
time.
Okay,.
F
In
just
in
mr.
Morrison,
you
said
at
the
beginning,
you
said
the
tear
in
wheels.
There
was
a
disproportionate
amount
of
spend
from
the
BBC's
actually
in
ninety
two
point:
three
percent:
what's
reason
license
fee,
but
from
your
own
figures,
three
hundred
and
fifty
percent
of
what
was
raised
in
license
fees
spent
in
London
forty
point.
F
B
There
is
I
think
you
might
have
noticed
it,
but
it's
going
to
gather
pace.
There
is
an
out
of
London
policy
within
the
BBC.
We
are
now
commissioning
more
programs
from
out
of
London
establishing
B
C's
in
different
parts
of
the
UK.
Now
as
it
happened
in
Scotland,
we
established
a
factual
base,
so
I
think
the
next
step
for
the
Scottish
industry,
in
my
personal
opinion,
is
to
try
and
work
out
a
way
to
build
a
sustainable
scripted
base.
B
So,
as
the
novice
said,
we
have
some
very
renowned
drama
companies
in
Scotland,
but
actually
quite
a
small
number.
Therefore,
in
partnership
with
organizations
like
creative
Scotland
and
other
partners,
I
think
it
is
a
task
to
try
and
build
up
the
scripted
base.
The
indigenous
scripted
company
based
in
Scotland,
which,
because
of
the
size
of
the
projects,
would
actually
increase
the
size
of
the
TV
production
industry
quite
dramatically.
F
B
Having
started
such
a
policy,
but
it
literally
takes
years
establish
a
serious
amount
of
production
out
of
out
of
London
bases,
so
sulfur
took
some
years
to
build
up.
Cardiff
took
some
years
to
build
up
I
think
there
is
an
opportunity.
Now
we
see
that
creative
Scotland
is
changing
its
strategy
from
more
of
an
Arts
Council's
strategy.
B
Independent
independent
talent
strategy
towards
a
more
creative
industry
strategy
and
more
money
has
come
in
from
the
Scottish
Government
I
think
there
is
an
opportunity,
together
with
creative
Scotland,
together
with
other
partners,
to
build
up
our
scripted
base,
which
would
genuinely
allow
Scotland
to
get
more
serious
drama
contributions
onto
the
screen.
Now,
as
Donalda
says,
the
number
of
drama
series
over
the
years
has
gone
up,
but
I
think
there's
quite
a
lot
of
mileage
still
to
go
so
I'm
tending
to
agree
with
you,
but
I.
Don't
think
it
will
happen
by
tomorrow.
B
I
think
it
will
take
two
or
three
years
to
build
this
up.
But,
as
I
said
right
at
the
beginning,
this
year
were
in
will
see
seventy
six
point.
Seven
percent
of
the
license
fees
spent
in
Scotland
next
year
when
the
channel
running
throughout
the
year
will
be
nudging
towards
80
percent.
This
is
growing
all
the
time,
but
in
the
end
the
quarter
system
is
not
the
answer.
B
A
I
think
you
know
many
people
will
be
surprised
that
you
know
we
have
actually
in
this
committee
and
predecessor,
committees
been
talking
about
like
a
scripted
drama
from
Scotland
for
quite
a
long
time
and
I
think.
This
committee
has
been
very
clear
in
its
reports
that
the
responsibilities
with
the
commissioners
notwithstanding
their
players,
should
we
put
on
creative
Scotland,
but
the
commissioners
responsible
for
the
decisions
they
make.
Tavish
Scot
suppose.
K
Not
if
I
could
ask
you
first
of
all
just
emphasize
the
point
you
made
at
the
beginning
about
things
like
Blue
Planet
I
mean
I,
think
the
BBC
should
push
there
push
what
you're
doing
a
little
more
in
Scotland,
because
a
lot
of
these
questions
you've
heard
today
I
think
are
just
indicative
of
you
know
over
a
well
an
inability
to
get
your
point
across
I.
Think,
frankly,
all
if
you
need
to
a
bit
more
of
that
about
seeing.
Why
do
what
the
benefits
of
blue
planet
across
Scotland
I
mean?
K
We
I
would
pick
the
licence
fee
alone
on
that,
if
you
didn't
put
match
the
day
on
in
Shetland
that'd
be
outraged,
you
know
in
our
household,
never
mind
anywhere
else.
So,
although
I'm,
who
made
it
start
about
spent
and
the
importance
of
these
UK
productions
right
across
the
UK,
are
really
important
and
I,
you
know
I
think
I
mean
occasion.
I
think
you
should
do
controller
live
now
and
again.
I
take
viewers,
crest
meet
the.
K
Exactly
eat
the
control
you
do
that
thing.
On
the
news
channel
where
someone
a
senior
BBC
executive
goes
on
and
says:
why
did
Faraj
appear
on
that
package
about
the
700,000
people
walking
through
through
London
a
few
weeks
ago,
I
mean
me,
see
I
thought
you
were
wrong
about
out,
doesn't
matter
at
least
at
least
a
BBC,
exactly
that
to
answer
that
question.
So
I
think
you
need
to
if
I
may
say,
to
push
your
own
agenda
so
that
make
niggle.
K
Are
balanced
by
the
fact
you
produce
all
these
programs?
We
all
want
to
watch.
So
that's
my
I'm
gonna
get
that
off
my
chest
because
I
get
fed
up
listening
to
this
argument.
Every
time
we,
the
question
actually
wanted
to
ask
was
about
a
documentary
about
your
point
about
impartial
tintin.
Aldo
MacKinnon's
made
the
very
same
point
about
impartiality,
because
he's
gotten
produced
a
documentary
called
dark
side
of
Deary,
which
I
don't
know
if
you
saw
not
but
three
things
about
it.
That
I
think
were
wrong.
K
Firstly,
it
did
not
explain
the
rigorous
inspection
and
transport
which
potat
carves
in
transport.
Secondly,
the
Scottish
Government
vets
inspect
and
monitor
a
system
that
wasn't
explained
on
the
documentary
and,
lastly,
it
used.
It
used
footage
of
something
that
happens
in
another
part
of
the
world,
but
never
said
an
implant
and
instead
implied
that
was
going
on
in
Scotland.
That,
for
me,
failed
the
test
of
imposter
art
is
a
documentary
I,
wonder
if
you've
had
a
look
at
that
and
be
sued,
hauled
abuses,
gotten
a
hold
off
its
hands
and
safe
right.
B
E
As
soul
and
I
know,
we
have
had
correspondents
on
on
this
particular
program
and
in
which
I
have
defended
it
quite
robustly
the
journalism
of
the
program.
A
you
will
probably
know
that
a
formal
complaint
has
now
been
lodged
with
our
executive
complaints
units
and,
as
that
process
is
still
ongoing,
I
would
rather
see
nothing
more
about
it
until
that
they
deliberate
yeah.
K
A
Thank
you
very
much
and
we'll
just
wind
up
now.
If
I
could,
just
before
we
do
that
astronauta,
it
should
pick
up
on
them
the
points
that
were
made
about
a
high-end
scripted
being
not
yet
commissioned
for
the
new
channel,
but
we're
told
it
would
be
commissioned
at
some
point
new
channel.
Could
you
tell
me
what
tired
of
free
that's
going
to
have
I.
E
E
A
And
and
finally,
Supermax
in
the
old
Finley's
point
about
original
content,
you
have
putting
a
node
of
news
on
at
nine
o'clock
and
mr.
Morrison
actually
made
the
point
that
most
channels
put
on
them
commissioned
new
new
content
at
nine
o'clock.
Is
there
any
everyone
I've
spoken
to
in
the
industry
says
that
that
is
a
big
mistake
that
you
will
not
attract
viewers
with
news
at
nine
o'clock
at
your
peak
time?
Is
there
any
possibility
of
that
decision
being
changed?
No.
E
We
have
actually
undertaken
some
qualitative,
a
focus
group
research
ourselves,
and
there
is
a
body
of
opinion
out
there.
That
says
they
would
value
a
news
out
at
nine
o'clock
as
an
alternative
to
what's
on
elsewhere,
and
particularly
amongst
a
women
and
often
parents
with
young
children
and
who
would
value
their
news
at
nine
o'clock
and
I.
Think
it's
true
to
see
that
we
don't
want
to
be
competing
directly
with
dramas
which
are
an
offer
elsewhere.
E
People
will
have
the
opportunity,
obviously
to
consume
these
dramas,
yeah
catch
up
or
on
demand,
and-
and
we
do
think
that
that
unless
it
I
mean
obviously
everything
that
we
plan
for
this
new
channel
has
an
element
of
risk
to
it.
We
don't
know
how
it's
going
to
work,
and
will
we
ever
revise
the
decision?
Well
we
might
have
to.
But
at
this
stage
the
intention
is
not
to
do
so.