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A
Good
morning
and
welcome
to
the
20th
meeting
of
the
committee
in
2018,
I'd
like
to
remind
members
and
public
to
turn
off
mobile
phones
and
any
members
using
electronic
devices
to
access
committee
papers
should
please
ensure
that
they
are
turned
to
silent.
Apologies
have
been
received
today
from
clear
Baker,
MSP
and
Stuart
McMillen
MSP
and
Neil
Finley
MSP
is
here
as
a
substitute
for
Claire,
Baker
and
Neil.
Do
you
have
any
relevant
interest?
You
wish
to
declare.
B
A
Thank
you
very
much.
Our
first
item
on
the
agenda
today
is
an
evidence
session
with
the
ambassador
of
the
pub
Republic
of
Austria
to
the
United
Kingdom
of
Great
Britain
and
Northern
Ireland,
who
currently
holds
the
presidency
of
the
Council
of
the
European
Union
I'd
like
to
welcome
the
ambassador,
his
Excellency
Michel
Zimmerman,
and
invite
the
Ambassador
to
make
an
opening
statement.
C
Thank
you
very
much,
madam
convener,
distinguished
members
of
the
Scottish
Parliament.
Ladies
and
gentlemen,
it
is
a
great
honor
and
pleasure
for
me
here
to
be
for
the
first
time
in
this
magnificent
building.
I
have
been
to
Edinburgh
many
times
before
over
the
past
decades,
but
it's
of
course,
a
very
special
moment
to
be
in
the
Scottish
Parliament
and
to
be
able
to
to
meet
such
a
distinguished
committee.
Here.
C
The
Austrian
presidency
comes
at
this
very
special
moment
in
in
in
in
in
for
Austria.
It
is
an
2018
is
a
year
of
anniversaries,
anniversaries,
good
and
bad
in
1848,
a
revolution
swept
over
Europe
and
started
land
reforms,
legal
reforms,
constitutional
reforms
and
opened
Europe
to
the
societies
that
we
have
now,
but
at
the
same
time,
1848
was
also
the
beginning
of
defined
nationalism
in
1918.
Almost
to
the
day
today,
the
Republic
of
Austria
was
founded.
C
The
german-speaking
remains
of
the
Austrian
austro-hungarian
monarchy
and
I.
Think.
The
interesting
point
here
in
the
Scottish
Parliament
is
that
the
republic
of
austria
was
founded
by
the
lender,
the
region,
the
regional
states.
It
was
not
a
top-down
creation,
but
the
lender
came
together
on
their
own
and
decided
to
set
up
the
republic
of
austria
and
this
foundation
on
regional
identity
on
the
regional
history
and
original
culture
is
something
that
influences
Austria
until
today,
a
darker
moment
came
80
80
years
ago,
again,
almost
the
day
in
1938
after
Austria
was
annexed
to
the
German
Reich.
C
C
1948
and
the
Universal
Declaration
of
Human
Rights
1968,
a
revolution
in
czechoslovakia
1998
and
our
first
EU
presidency.
Today
we
have
our
third
one
and
now
20
years
after
the
first
one
I
am
very
happy
to
be
here
and
talk
about
the
third
Austrian
EU
presidency.
In
the
normal
course
of
events.
I
would
not
be
here
because
in
the
list
of
EU
presidents
is,
the
UK
would
have
been
slotted
in
in
2017.
C
So
that's
why
I'm
here
today
and
not
next
years,
we
are
very
aware
also
because
of
the
referendum
in
the
UK,
that
somehow
in
many
countries
the
link
to
the
citizens
have
has
been
lost
over
the
last
years
or
maybe
even
decades,
and
that
it
is
necessary
to
link
with
the
people
again
to
listen
to
the
people
and
to
put
their
concerns
first
in
in
any
EU
Presidency.
The
the
range
of
issues
that
can
be
decided
by
the
presidency
itself
is
not
very
wide.
C
C
People
have
lost
their
confidence
in
many
places
that
the
that
there
are
states
that
the
EU
is
able
and
willing
to
protect
them,
and
we
will
try
to
we
to
try
to
convince
the
people
that
the
U
is
willing
and
able
to
protect
the
citizens
within
this
motto:
Europe
that
protects.
We
have
free
priority
areas.
One
is
the
fight
against
illegal
migration.
C
C
There
are
countries
that
could
rightly
belong
to
the
European
Union,
but
for
a
number
of
reasons
are
not
there
yet,
and
we
very
much
interested
in
in
helping
them
to
join
the
European
Union
and
to
extend
the
sphere
of
stability
and
prosperity
throughout
South,
Eastern
Europe,
as
well
in
as
far
as
migration
is
concerned,
I
think
one
of
the
we
have
been
talking
for
a
long
time
about
the
e
use
external
borders,
but
in
2018
it
was
not.
We
were
not
able
to
protect
or
control
these
orders.
It
was
on
one
hand,
was
it.
C
What
was
the
sheer
scale
of
the
migration
in
2015
that
really
caused
concern?
On
the
other
hand,
it
was
the
feeling
that
the
rule
of
law
was
lost
and
if
the
border
cannot
be
protected,
if
citizens
see
that
the
authorities
reached
the
national
order,
European
authorities
are
not
able
to
enforce
the
rule
of
law
and
the
loss
of
confidence
hurts
everyone.
C
The
future
should
see
strengthening
of
frontex
of
the
European
agency
that
that
actually
does
border
control.
It's,
of
course,
vastly
understaffed
to
protect
the
CSS,
especially
the
sea
borders
in
Southie.
It's
in
South,
southern
Europe
is
is
a
huge
task,
but
we
have
to
start
and
we
have
to
get
somewhere.
C
C
C
For
the
stability
of
our
neighborhoods,
we
must
be
aware
that
tensions
are
never
far
away.
There
has
been
progress
made
over
the
past
20
years
after
the
dissolution
of
Yugoslavia,
but
not
enough
progress.
There
are
still
underlying
animosities.
There
is
a
lack
of
economic
and
civic
progress
because
of
ethnic
and
political
differences,
and
we
will
continue
to
work
hard
on
this
topic.
C
C
The
the
topic
of
subsidiarity
is
quite
important
for
us,
not
least
as
as
I
mentioned
before,
because
we
come
from.
We
live
in
a
country
which
we're
where
decisions
are
being
made
bottom-up,
and
we
will
have
a
conference
in
in
Austria
in
actually
next
week.
I
think
it
is
in
1516
trying
to
further
the
principle
of
subsidiarity
within
the
European
Union
Austria
tries
to
act
as
an
honest
broker
in
the
presidency.
C
The
topics
we
which
owes
are
not
for
our
for
our
national
advancement,
but
we
try
to
to
work
further
for
the
better
of
Europe,
and
this
broker
role.
Take
certain
extent
is
what
we
can
also
bring
into
the
practices
debate.
The
the
structure
of
the
negotiations
and
the
structure
of
the
procedures
does
not
allow
a
lot
of
activities
on
the
national
or
presidency
level,
but
our
Prime
Minister
has
been
very
active
in
in
in
difficult
to
say
in
advancing
the
nage
negotiations
or
in
convincing
the
parties
to
find
solutions.
C
He
was
in
right
at
the
beginning
of
the
presidency.
He
was
in
in
London
and
on
today's
first
day
on
Monday
I
think
he
had
a
telephone
conversation
with
Prime
Minister.
We
are
doing
what
we
can.
Of
course,
our
our
scope
of
activities
is
limited,
I
think
so
far,
most
participants
are
happy
with
an
end.
I
must
also
say
that,
for
example,
the
Salzburg
summit,
which
was
really
quite
important
event
in
brakes,
it
was
not
meant
to
discuss
practice
it
at
all.
Our
Prime
Minister
opened
the
the
summit
to
the
practice
discussion.
C
Originally
it
was
originally,
it
was
planned
only
for
from
migration
and
security
purposes,
but
of
course
we
tried
to
use
the
opportunity
to
have
the
state
head
of
heads
of
state
and
government
in
sites
work
to
to
talk
about
practice
it
as
well.
So
these
are
the
little
things
that
we
can
bring
into
into
practice.
C
So
far,
there's
any
number
of
of
ministerial
events
that
taking
place
I
think
mostly
and
in
a
very
constructive
atmosphere,
and
the
pace
will
continue.
We
will
have
a
high-level
forum
between
leaders
of
Europe
and
Africa
in
Vienna
in
December,
which
will
try
to
tackle
the
migration
question
in
cooperation
with
those
who
are
the
countries
of
origin
and
or
countries
of
transit,
and
try
to
to
work
out
solutions
with
them,
and
one
thing
I
want
to
point
out
at
this
stage
is
that
we
are
the
presidency
of
the
28th.
It's
not
EU
against
the
UK.
C
A
Fascinating
I
know
that
a
number
of
members
have
questions
that
they
wish
to
ask
you,
so
it
was
alright.
If
I
stop
you
there
and
move
on
to
questions.
Thank
you
very
much
and
could
I
ask
him.
You
talked
about
your
presidents.
A
visit
to
London
understand
that
the
Prime
Minister
trees
army
has
visited
Austria
I,
believe
the
Foreign
Secretary
and
some
other
ministers
have
visited
Austria,
and
that
has
been
seen
as
an
attempt
by
the
UK
government
to
to
lobby
Austria
as
an
individual
member
state
and
also
as
the
presidency.
A
C
I
think
we
do
not
interpret
the
motives
of
the
UK
government
when
they
when
they
visit
us
this
visit
Austria
and
talk
to
us.
We
are
very
happy
about
these
meetings.
We
gain
a
lot
of
and
information,
but
I
think
the
structure
is
very
clear:
Michele
Vanya
is
negotiating,
he
has
a
clear
mandate.
The
mandate
is
adapted
by
the
European
Council
article
50,
and
there
has
been
no
no
change
in
that.
There
is
no
per
lateral
tracts
and.
A
D
Ewing,
yes,
I
think
you
can
be
a
good
morning
ambassador
and
thank
you
very
much
for
your
interesting
opening
statement.
We
do
indeed
live
in
interesting
times
and
at
this
stage
the
there
are
so
many
unknown
unknowns
to
coin
a
phrase
that
it's
very
difficult
to
have
a
rational
discussion,
but
just
picking
up
on
a
very
factual
point
and
I
appreciate
from
your
perspective
as
ambassador
that
it
may
not
be
within
your
particular
knowledge
in
terms
of
the
detail.
D
But
it
was
just
something
that
was
adopted
during
the
Austrian
presidency,
which
I
hadn't
really
been
aware
of,
and
that
was
a
new
European
travel
information
and
authorization
system
et
iea,
since
the
acronym
and
this
is
to
apply
to
visa
exempt
third-country
nationals
and
they
will
need
to
obtain
a
travel
authorization
before
their
trip
via
an
online
application
for
each
application,
the
applicant
will
be
required
to
pay
a
Travel
Authorization
fee
of
7
euros.
So
really
I.
Don't
think
this
is
widely
known
amongst
potential
travelers
in
the
UK.
D
In
terms
of
you
know,
obviously,
at
this
point
of
the
year,
they
may
be
looking
to
boot
holidays
next
year
and
so
forth.
So
I
guess
I'm
seeking
some
clarification
as
to
what
is
the
intended
impact
at
the
moment
of
this
system
or
nuki
nationals,
certainly
during
the
transition
period,
whatever
that
may
be,
and
obviously
beyond
so
after
it
breaks
it,
if
not
indeed
takes
place.
It'd
be
really
helpful.
If
you
had
any
thoughts
to
give
us
this
morning
or
not
mm-hm.
C
C
D
An
important
practical
consideration,
what
if
mainly
I,
mean
but
just
in
terms
of
the
broader
intention
behind
the
system-
and
you
mentioned
security
very
important,
so
I.
Take
it,
therefore,
that
implicit
in
a
system
of
authorization,
albeit
it
fall
short
of
a
visa
system,
but
implicit
in
a
system
of
authorization,
is
presumably
the
possibility
that
in
certain
circumstances,
authorization
will
not
be
granted
and
I
guess.
C
A
D
D
My
point
is
that
an
authorization
system
by
the
by
the
title
of
this
by
the
nature
of
the
word
authorizations
presupposes
that
in
certain
circumstances
and
I
think
we
need
to
get
to
the
bottom
of
fortnight
with
Luke
like.
But
thank
you
very
much
I
appreciate
that
that
was
perhaps
between
you
and
the
despot.
Pretty.
E
Ambassador,
firstly,
thank
you
for
your
remarks
at
the
new
opening
remarks
to
the
to
the
convener.
Some
of
us
met
your
colleague
Franz
Fishler
many
years
ago
on
fisheries
matter.
I,
don't
know
what
mr.
fish
her
fishness
doing
these
days,
but
he
was
certainly
a
robust
character
when
it
came
to
policy
some
years
back.
Your
very
diplomatic
if
I
may
say
so.
E
The
question
actually
want
to
ask
was
about
the
transitional
period
and
your
perspective
in
convening
the
presidency
of
the
Union
at
this
time,
where
what
what
you,
where
you
guess
that
transitional
period
will
will
it
will
extend
to
what
time
period
we're
being
told
it's
going
to
be?
Are
the
current
thinking
is
18
months,
but
do
you
foresee
circumstances
where
that
could
be
extended,
given
the
complexity
of
what
may
have
to
be
discussed
and
arranged
from
March
of
2019
onwards,.
E
E
C
B
C
Naturally,
the
views
of
our
coalition
partners
come
in,
but
decisions
are
taken
by
the
council
of
ministers
will
unanimously,
and
that
way
you
have
one
government
position.
The
the
question
of
migration
is
a
question
that
does
not
even
only
concern
the
parties
in
government
at
all
the
other
parties
as
well,
and
I
think
the
and
any
decision
taken
by
the
government
now
reflects
the
the
result
of
the
elections
reflects
the
the
will
of
the
electorate.
But
if
you're
talking
about
concrete
questions,
we
can
look
into
it,
but
I
think
in
general
it
is.
B
In
relation
to
the
issues
around
migration,
the
we
see
every
year,
thousands
of
migrants,
many
dying
and
the
Mediterranean
dronin
and
the
Mediterranean
as
the
view
of
the
Austrian
government
in
the
place
to
say
that
come
with
me,
you
know
that's
just
a
consequence
of
having
a
very
store
having
a
secure,
EU
border
and
there's
no
acknowledgement
that
there's
an
absolute
failure
to
deal
with
the
whole
issue
around
migration.
When
we
see
thousands
of
poor
people
join
in
and
Mediterranean.
C
It
is
scared
that
that
the
the
measures
that
had
been
taken
in
the
past
years
were
not
sufficient
to
prevent
tragedies
like
that,
but
as
far
as
the
cause
of
these
tragedies
is
concerned,
we
are
looking
very
hard
at
criminal
networks
that
actually
caused
them.
The
tragedies
in
the
Mediterranean
have
a
business
component
in
terms
of
criminal
business
and,
if
attacked,
if
you
tackle
the
problem
as
a
whole,
he
must
also
tackle
that
problem.
C
C
No,
no,
that's
that's
that.
That's
definitely
not
our
position.
There
is
movement
and
there
is
illegal
movement.
There
is
a
wide
range
of
of
regulations
that
allows
furthers
and
and
extends
legal
movement,
but
there
is
also
a
point
where
you
come
into
the
site
into
the
area
of
illegal
movement
and
if
illegal
movement,
as
defined
by
laws,
takes
place,
the
governments
have
the
duty
to
stop
that.
Okay,.
F
You
can
be
no
good
morning
ambassador
and
thank
you
for
coming.
Can
I
continue
this
thread.
Given
in
your
opening
statement,
you
said
that
one
of
the
three
key
priorities
for
the
Austin
presidency
was
the
issue
of
migration
on
the
European
continent.
Can
you
comment
on
and
appreciate
a
new
rule?
That's
I'm
not
asking
you
to
comment
on
domestic
political
matters.
Those
are
matters
for
domestic
politicians,
but
I
think
it
is
important
because
I
think
the
domestic
politics
of
the
country
which
holds
the
presidency,
can
influence
us
neighboring
countries.
F
The
reason
I
say
that
is
that,
as
you
will
be
aware,
Austria
has
decided
not
to
sign
up
to
the
global
compact
for
migration.
The
UN's
scheme,
alongside
some
of
its
neighboring
countries,
such
as
Hungary,
Hungary,
Czech
Republic,
and
from
what
I
can
read
in
the
news
this
week,
perhaps
Croatia
as
well
and
Poland
so
I
think
that
that
regional
influence
that
cluster
of
regional
countries,
which
has
a
certain
view
on
this,
this
Accord,
seems
to
be
a
theme
which
is
coming
through
to
court
from
the
Austrian
vice
chancellor.
C
There
is
a
context,
because
the
countries
you
mentioned
were
all
hit
by
the
migration
crisis.
There
is
no
sort
of
bilateral
consultation
about
that.
These
are
the
decisions
that
are
really
taken
by
the
individual
governments,
not
as
a
group
or
not
not
in
an
in
an
organized
matter.
Plus
you
have
other
countries
like
the
United
States
of
America,
which
will
not
the
compact
I
think
in
in.
C
In
the
light
of
the
of
the
events
of
the
last
year's
work,
our
people
were
going
very
hard
over
every
detail
of
the
compact,
and
there
is
a
number
of
points
concrete
points
in
there
where
we
feel
that
they,
in
the
current
form,
do
not
reflect
what
our
government
expects
from
the
compact
and
there
is
it's
not
not
not
and
other
general
questions
there
is.
You
know,
15
or
20
single
questions
where
we
do
not
feel
that
the
compact
keeps
there
a
satisfying
answer
or
or
makes
the
difference
between
legal
and
illegal
migration.
F
Has
that
decision
been
been
influenced
by
the
makeup
of
your
domestic
government
and,
if
so,
has
that
affected?
Do
you
think
the
stance
that
your
country
has
taken
on
that
occurred
because
I
think
in
one
hand
the
the
narrative
with
regards
to
your
presidency
is
about
tackling
and
helping
migrants,
but
but
but
on
an
estate
sovereign
level,
not
signing
up
to
some
of
the
schemes
that
may
do
just
that,
so
there
seems
to
be
a
conflict
of
user.
There
I
think.
C
Enshrine
something
which
of
which
you
know
that
it
might
not
be
kept
or
that
it
might
not
be
able
to
to
implement
is,
is
in
a
way
is
in
a
way
dangerous
if
you're
not
fully
convinced
of
something
I
think
that's
the
view
of
our
government,
if
you're
not
fully
convinced
of
something
like
the
compact,
if
you're
not
fully
agree
with
the
provisions,
it's
better
to
say
it
at
the
right
moment
and
not
regret
it.
A
few
years
later,
okay,.
F
F
What
is
the
Austrian
presidencies
views
on
how
robust
it
will
be
with
Russia
specifically
or
how
the
you
should
deal
with
that
issue
and
I
say
so
in
the
context
that
many
European
countries
rely
on
Russia
for
large
sums
of
of
energy,
as
particularly
gasps
I
know:
Austria,
for
example,
inputs
huge
amounts
of
gas
from
Russia
over
nine
billion
cubic
meters
in
2017.
That's
a
50
percent.
Increased
2018
already
has
superseded
that
so
with
that
reliance
on
the
state
on
Russia.
How
confident
are
you,
then?
The
austrian
presidency
will
be
robust
with
Russia
mm-hmm.
C
C
Yes,
the
numbers
you
mentioned
are
right,
but
in
terms
of
dependence,
it's
far
less
than
some
of
our
neighboring
countries
and
increase
in
decrease
reflects
changes
in
prices.
That's
it's
a
market
question,
but
some
southeastern
and
eastern
european
countries
are
really
dramatically
dependent
on
Russian
energy.
C
These
countries
have
to
be
stable
and
prosperous
enough
to
not
not
to
be
intimidated.
That's
why
we
want
to
take
them
in
the
EU
that
we
are
looking
very
strongly
into
reverse-flow
gas
pipeline
systems
to
really
enable
countries
like
like
Hungary,
Serbia
and
others
to
decrease
their
dependency
on
on
Russian
gas,
but
energy
dependence
and
and
Russian
influence
is
only
one
of
the
problems
in
Southeast
Europe.
It's
a
fairly
recent
problem.
C
The
the
ethnic
and
religious
tensions
in
Southeast
Europe
go
back
six
seven
hundred
years,
which
is
a
long
time
even
by
UK
standards,
I,
think
and-
and
you
really
have
to
create
sort
of
the
Civic
coherence,
the
feeling
of
one
society
in
these
countries
parallel
to
practical
questions
like
energy
dependence.
So,
yes,
energy
dependence
is
an
important
factor,
but
I
think
the
real
problems
lie
deeper
still
and
Russian
influence
or
Russian.
Politics
is
only
one
aspect
of
the
civilization
of
southeastern
Europe.
Thank.
G
You
convener,
and
very
conveniently
that
falls
on
exactly
from
Jimmy
greens
final
question.
During
the
course
of
your
presidency,
Europe
relationship
with
Turkey
has
become
increasingly
strained.
That
did
not
start
with
your
presidency.
It's
been
happening
for
a
number
of
years
now,
Turkey
jails,
more
journalists
than
any
other
country
on
earth
has
continuously
and
consistently
attacked
its
own
Democratic
opposition.
Many
MPs
are
now
in
jail
and
there's
a
widely
held
perception
that
Turkey
has
held
back
effective
European
action
against
the
on
the
basis
of
the
agreement
that
was
reached
for
push
backs
of
refugees.
C
C
The
migration
crisis
of
2015
brought
that
to
light,
we
have
to
work
with
Turkey
step-by-step
on
various
questions,
but
yes,
that
the
development
of
the
domestic
situation
in
Turkey
gives
concern
to
our
to
us
as
government.
As
you
presidency
there's
a
number
of
Austrians
who
are
jailed
and
in
Turkey
at
the
moment,
and
it
it
is
one
of
the
big
European
questions.
Definitely,
as
you.
G
Mentioned
Turkey's
NATO
membership,
which
is
becoming
an
increasingly
key
issue
and,
for
example,
the
study
in
civil
war
in
really
geopolitical
relations
there.
But
for
what
other
reason
ban
Turkey's,
NATO
membership
and
the
refugee
pushback
deal?
Are
there
any
other
reasons
than
those
for
Europe's?
Considerably
constrained?
Criticism
of
turkeys
actions
in
comparison
to
incredibly
similar
actions
by
Russia,
for
example,.
C
C
C
C
G
Final
question
on
what
levels
of
cooperation
are
appropriate
should
Europe
respects
arrest
warrants
from
Turkey
that
are
issued
on
the
basis
of
what
we
would
consider
to
be
purely
political
motivation,
arrest
warrants
for
both
their
own
internal
democratic
opposition,
but
particularly
for
Kurdish
activists
who
are
not
Turkish
citizens.
A
number
of
Kurdish
political
activists
from
Syria
who
travel
around
Europe
advocating
for
their
cause.
The
democratic
in
the
north
of
Syria
I've
had
arrest
warrants
issued
by
Turkey.
They
have,
on
the
whole,
not
being
respected
by
European
nations,
but
on
some
occasions
have
been
shoot.
C
A
H
H
Thank
you
for
that
clarification,
which
I
think
is
important
to
have
on
the
record,
can
also
ask
one
of
the
issues
they
it
with
regard
to
air
brakes
is,
of
course,
at
the
UK's
financial
contribution
to
the
M
net
financial
contribution.
The
European
Union
means
there's
going
to
be
a
whole
in
terms
of
the
budget
and
I'm
just
wondering
what
the
view
of
the
Austrian
government
is
or
not.
C
One
of
the
topics
which
I
could
not
mention
in
my
opening
statement
was
the
mighty
annual
financial
framework,
which
is,
of
course,
part
of
one
of
our
big
topics
on
the
on
the
technically
lever.
I
think
our
government
is
very
much
aware
of
our
and
that
there
at
contributor
position
and
the
pit
for
the
shortfall
through
the
because
of
the
lack
of
UK
contribution
will
be
a
major
topic,
I
think
also
for
the
elections
for
the
European
Parliament.
C
H
H
H
It
will
know-
and
she
same
pointed
out
that
him
some
of
the
issues
that
Austria
wishes
to
address
during
the
presidency
president
said
one
of
the
issues
was
that
he
start
telling
you
debate
about
what
policy
should
be
you
and
the
missed
in
what
should
be
domestic
and
that
she's
saying
that
him
well,
a
task
force
was
settled
by
jean-claude
juncker
on
subsidiarity
and
miss
Rickman
has
said
that
so
far
has
produced
a
few
results.
This
caused
some
frustration
for
Austria.
How
do
you
feel
what
should
they
be
taking
forward?
I
think.
C
C
But,
yes,
our
Chancellor
is
very
much
aware
of
of
the
importance
of
subsidiarity
and
their
the
task
force
has
produced
a
report,
I
think
so
it's
going
step
by
step.
Of
course
it's
one
of
the
fundamental
questions
and
any
question
which
is
treated
differently
in
each
country.
We
are
very,
very
comfortable
with
subsidiarity
because
of
our
history,
other
countries
less
so
but
but
III
do
we
expect
her.
We
do.
We
expect
that
next
week's
conference
will
take
us
a
step
forward
and
just.
H
C
H
C
There
are
very
complex
questions
on
the
London
and
the
actual
and
on
the
level
of
individuals
of
individual
companies,
individual
businesses
so
I
think
that
has
to
be
looked
into
and
and
the
consumer
level,
because
the
consumers
deserve
protection
notwithstanding
where
they
live.
So
it
has
to
be
really
treated
meta,
PI
matter,
but
I
think
our
government
would
would
rather
have
the
EU
not
occupying
itself
too
much
with
detailed
questions
which
can
be
served
from
the
local
level
and
and
really
concentrated
on
the
once.
Okay.
Thank
you
for
ya.
I
Alexander
Stewart
Thank
You
Kim
Yuna,
ahead
of
your
presidency.
There
was
a
real
expectation
that
Austria
would
be
a
major
player
in
some
of
the
negotiations
that
hasn't
really
transpired
to
being
where
you
are
now,
but
can
I
ask
what
kind
of
impact
on
your
work
in
the
presidency
has?
The
leaving
of
the
EU
had
sorry
the
impact
that
your
work
as
the
presidency
has
had
with
effect
to
the
EU
leaving
because
initially
there
was
a
talk
that
you
would
be
a
major
player
in
some
of
the
negotiations
within
that
process
and
that
hasn't
happened.
C
C
It's
it's
still,
it
still
is
a
matter.
Do
you
wait
to
be
called,
or
do
you
call
somebody
and
and
I
think
we
are
ready
to
make
these
cards
our
ministers,
our
prime
minister
or
Chancellor,
is
ready
to
make
these
calls
to
try
to
restart
things,
but
but
within
the
European,
within
the
formal
framework
and.
I
C
Environmental
questions
are
one
of
the
one
of
really
are
close
to
our
hearts:
banking
union
capital
markets,
Union
to
to
to
continue
to
position
Europe
as
a
as
a
financial
player
as
well
and
I
mean
there
have
been.
There
have
been
minor
successes
like
fishing
quota
and
the
Baltic
Baltic,
Sea
and
and
the
whole
question
of
the
trade-off
between
ecology,
agriculture,
consumer
protection.
These
are
topics
that
were
we
on
the
detailed
level
tried
to
advance
politics
and
advanced
topics.
Okay,.
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
Our
second
item
of
business
today
is
an
evidence
session
with
the
BBC
I
would
like
to
welcome
the
witnesses
and
bill
foods.
Deputy
director-general
of
the
BBC
Donalda
McKinnon,
the
director
of
BBC
Scotland
and
Steve
Morrison,
a
member
for
the
member
for
Scotland
on
the
BBC
board,
and
I
would
like
to
invite
Steve
Morrison
to
make
a
short
opening
statement.
Good.
J
Morning,
thank
you
for
inviting
us
here
today
can
be
known.
I
hardly
need
to
make
a
few
introductions,
but
for
those
of
you
who
haven't
met
us
I'm,
Steve
Morrison
and
I'm,
the
member
for
Scotland
on
the
BBC
board.
I've
worked
in
television
for
45
years,
predominantly
for
Granada,
where
I
was
the
chief
executive
and
then
I
found
it
all
three
media
which
became
the
largest
independent
group
of
television
production
companies
in
the
UK
and
currently
has
20
companies
around
the
world.
J
The
role
of
the
Scottish
member
on
this
new
BBC
board
is
to
ensure
that
the
views
of
the
Scottish
population
are
represented
and
reflected
in
the
BBC's
output
and
to
engage
with
stakeholders
and
license
fee
payers
in
Scotland
to
ensure
that
the
BBC
assesses
and
meets
the
needs
of
our
diverse
community.
As
a
member
of
this
board,
obviously
I'm
also
involved
in
discussion
and
decision
making
on
the
global
issues
facing
the
BBC
and
also
sits
on
the
main
BBC
board.
I
chair,
the
Scotland
Committee,
which
oversees
and
monitors
BBC
Scotland's
strategy
and
output.
J
J
This
growth
will
bring
significant
new
jobs,
80
extra
rules
in
journalism,
50
already
appointed
another
88
new
jobs
in
digital
and
engineering
by
the
end
of
March
2019,
and
with
additional
posts
to
support
the
new
channel
and
growth
in
other
parts
of
the
BBC
in
Scotland.
This
will
take
us
to
around
270
new
posts
by
the
end
of
March,
including
10,
trainee,
journalists
and
10
prentices.
J
J
At
the
same
time,
as
you
know,
Channel
four
is
setting
up
a
new
hub
in
Glasgow
and
the
national
film
and
television
school
Scotland
has
been
set
up
in
Pacific
key
with
help
from
the
BBC
and
the
Scottish
Government
speaking
as
I
do
as
the
national
film
schools.
First
graduate
I'm
delighted
about
this
new
development
and
you'll
hear
more
about
it
from
Donalda
overall
I'm,
very
proud
to
be
the
board
member
for
Scotland.
At
this
point,
the
point
of
its
biggest
investment
in
programs
and
services
for
Scotland
in
a
generation.
Thank
you
can
be
nothing.
J
A
You
will
be
aware
that
this
committee
has
them
raised
the
issue
of
the
amount
of
the
BBC
licence
fee
that
is
spent
in
Scotland,
and
we
have
raised
it
in
our
most
recent
report
into
the
screen
sector
in
Scotland,
where
we
see
is
too
long
and
we've
raised
it
repeatedly
and
when
the
BBC
come
before
us
annually
to
talk
about
their
accounts.
No,
this
year
the
amount
of
the
licence
fee
spent
in
Scotland
has
actually
fallen
on
last
year
and
as
we
behind
it
remains
we
behind
wheels
in
Northern
Ireland
at
68%.
A
J
Thanks
very
much
convener.
In
fact,
the
situation
is
improving
in
2015
16.
The
percentage
of
the
license
fees
spent
in
Scotland
was
sixty
five
point:
nine
percent
in
2017
18.
It
will
be
sixty
eight
point,
eight
percent,
and
in
the
year
were
in
which
is
eighteen
nineteen.
It
will
be.
Seventy
six
point:
seven
percent:
when
the
new
BBC
channel
transmits
for
a
whole
year,
it
will
be
nudging
towards
eighty
percent
now.
The
reason
why
there
has
been
a
network
drop
and
TV
spend
in
2017-18
is
largely
due
to
delayed
transmissions
of
two
programmes.
A
J
I
can
answer
that
very
clearly.
There
is
no
real
comparison
between
Scotland,
Wales
and
Northern.
Ireland
Wales
has
been
chosen
by
the
BBC
as
a
Federals
Center
for
drama,
so
you'll
know
programs
like
casualty
doctor,
whose
Charlock
are
now
all
produced
out
of
Cardiff.
These
programs
are
not
portrayal
programs
about
Wales.
They
are
regular
programs
standards
that
the
BBC
has
made
for
many
years
and
the
BBC
chose
to
establish
a
major
drama
production
centre
in
Cardiff,
whereas
before
they
were
made
elsewhere.
That's
why
Wales
has
got
a
disproportionate
amount
of
spend.
J
Northern
Ireland
is
totally
different.
Northern
Iowa
is
a
much
smaller
area
than
Scotland,
but
it
still
is
obliged
to
make
local
news
programs
and
country
fairs,
and
these
programs
cost
roughly
the
same
whatever
size
of
the
population
and
therefore
is
quite
natural
that
in
a
small
area,
their
percentage
of
Spain
would
be
higher.
May
I
just
say
my
own
personal
opinion
about
this.
I
do
not
believe
that
the
BBC
should
end
up
trying
to
invest
or
put
on
the
screen.
J
A
hundred
percent
of
the
licence
fee
in
a
form
of
quota
I
believe
we
are
progressing
towards
what
will
probably
be
around
80%
but
I.
Think
the
people
in
Scotland
would
appreciate
big
national
international
programs
like
the
BBC
World
Service,
the
Commonwealth
Games,
the
European
athletic
championships,
Blue
Planet.
None
of
these
things
count
in
the
funny
way
that
all
these
hours
are
calculated,
even
if,
as
in
the
case
of
the
athletics
championship,
the
European
Championship
they
were,
half
of
them
were
actually
produced
in
Scotland.
J
So
we
have
to
allow
for
certain
if
you
like
central
major
programs
to
be
funded
throughout
the
UK,
and
that
includes
Scottish
participation.
Secondly,
this
is
a
creative
business
and
I
think
it's
very
important
to
give
the
commissioners
some
Headroom
so
that
they
can
Commission
the
best
ideas,
the
best
dramas,
the
best
comedies
from
wherever
they
come.
J
Having
said
that,
I
think
we're
all
pleased
to
develop
the
person
increase
the
investment
in
Scotland,
as
I
announced
in
my
opening
statement,
because
in
the
end,
what
we
all
really
want
is
a
larger,
sustainable
indigenous
creative
industry
of
television
production
in
Scotland
and
later
on.
In
this
interchange,
I
think
we
should
come
back
to
that
and
the
ways
to
do
it
because
we're
all
really
working
in
the
same
direction.
I'm.
A
J
All
in
favor
of
you
of
us
all
having
more
returnable
dramas
in
Scotland,
the
only
point
I
was
making
was,
if
you
take
three
bankers
which
are
casualty,
Sherlock
and
Doctor
Who,
and
you
put
them
in
one
place,
they
could
actually
be
made
anywhere
because
they're
not
particularly
local
to
Wales.
Then
you
will
get
high
numbers.
It
should
be
our
objective
to
find
dramas
like
Northern
Ireland
did,
with
line
of
duty
to
find
dramas
that
are
returning,
as
Shetland,
for
example,
is,
is
about
to
invent
his
fifth
series.
A
You
could
just
point
out
that
you
know
I
thought
that
was
quite
interesting
fingers
in
terms
of
the
BBC
headcount
as
a
sheet
of
the
total
population
of
of
that
nation
and
in
in
Scotland,
and
the
head
count
is
exactly
the
same
as
Wales,
and
but
it's
a
law
percentage
of
the
population.
So
in
terms
of
the
population
of
Scotland
a
much
lower
percentage,
as
employed
by
the
BBC
in
Scotland
than
in
wheels.
Well.
J
What
I
was
explaining
in
my
introduction
is
the
BBC
in
Scotland
is
adding
270
new
posts.
That
is
a
very,
very
large
percentage
of
the
existing
headcount
and
will
increase
it
quite
dramatically.
The
reason
why
Wales,
as
I
explained
earlier
as
a
disproportionate
number,
is
that
they
have
a
very
large
UK
based
Drama
Centre,
which
requires
a
lot
of
people
working
on
those
programs,
I'm
perfectly
happy
to
share
with
you
the
objective
of
finding
long-running
successful
dramas
and
comedies
for
Scotland
from
Scotland
to
the
UK
Network.
J
A
J
As
you
can
imagine,
I'm
quite
a
pushy
person
and
Scotland
in
an
overall
context,
which
is
actually
very
challenging.
As
you
know,
the
UK
government
has
transferred
to
the
BBC
the
responsibility
for
the
over
75
s
free
licenses
and
if
that
concession
continued,
that
would
take
up
20%
of
the
BBC's
licence
fee.
Now,
I
can't
really
comment
on
that,
because
we're
going
to
go
into
a
public
consultation
on
it
and
then
the
board
will
discuss
it.
J
J
G
You
computer
I'd
like
to
focus
on
BBC
news
and
current
affairs
at
first
and
a
couple
of
specific
instances
that
I
think
indicate
our
wider
issue,
and
so
news
night
earlier
this
year
run
a
package
from
the
Institute
of
Economic
Affairs.
Remember
their
staff
advocating
the
privatisation
of
the
NHS.
The
IEA
are
one
of
the
least
transparent,
think
tanks
in
Europe
the
registered
as
an
education
charity,
but
there's
a
lot
of
deep
skepticism
about
that.
G
We
do
know
that
they're
funded
by
Beck
tobacco
companies,
for
example,
who
advocate
against
public
health
measures
and
Curly,
have
a
vested
interest
and
policies
related
to
health
care.
We
know
that
a
head
of
the
IAEA
gives
32,000
pounds
to
the
new
Secretary
of
State
for
Health
and
the
UK
government.
Their
head
of
health
policy
claimed
all
doctors
are
communists
and
they
were
allowed
to
run
a
package
through
the
BBC
advocating
for
the
privatisation
of
the
NHS.
G
Be
helpful
but
want
to
stack
with
this
issue.
No,
because
it's
indicative
over
a
wider
issue
and
I
would
like
you
to
explain
to
me
and
perhaps
I
would
be
able
to.
Why
does
the
BBC
offer
platforms
to
organizations
who
have
no
donor
transparency,
but
for
which,
in
this
case,
there
is
clear
suspicion
that
private
health
care
companies
who
have
a
vested
interest
in
what
this
package
was
advocating
are,
in
fact
funding
the
organization
who
was
given
the
platform?
G
J
Seen
this
item
so
I
can't
really
comment
on
this
individual
item.
In
general,
the
BBC
has
a
very,
very
long-standing,
robust
process
for
ensuring
impartiality
and
balance,
particularly
in
news
and
current
affairs,
and
we
have
a
very
rigorous
system
if
anything
comes
up
that
goes
outside
those
rules.
I'm.
G
K
Now,
if
there
is
a
specific
complaint,
where
the
context
of
those
views
is
felt
not
to
be
sufficiently
clear
and
being
made
clear
to
our
audience,
and
that
challenge
seems
in
some
way
to
be
inappropriate,
then
we
have
channels
to
enable
people
to
raise
complaints
about
that,
and
we
would
consider
that
properly.
But.
G
Before
it
gets
to
the
complaint
process,
what
I'm
asking
again
is
why
does
the
BBC
as
a
general
rule,
our
organizations
like
the
IEA
by
the
taxpayers
Alliance,
which
is
not
a
membership
organization
that
represents
taxpayers?
It's
just
a
company
owned
by
two
guys.
Why
are
these
organizations
who
have
no
transparency
behind
their
financial
arrangements,
allowed
to
comment
on
issues
of
public
policy
related,
clearly
to
those
your
belief
widely
to
funding
that
well.
K
Our
job
is
to
enable
a
range
of
views
to
be
put
forward
and
for
those
views
to
be
challenged
through
our
journalism,
as
I
say,
the
very
specific
point
that
you
raise.
We
can
look
at
that
and
and
reply
on
that
point.
It's
not
it's
not
an
issue
that's
been
raised
with
me
before,
but
my
clear
understanding
of
what
we
seek
to
do
in
our
journalism
is
to
challenge
not
to
provide
platform
I.
G
Diane,
sir,
but
I
don't
think
we're
gonna
get
any
further
and
to
move
on
to
a
related
issue,
but
not
not
our
own
and
financing.
You'll,
be
aware
of
the
controversy
around
the
invitation
of
the
white
nationalist
Steve
Bannon
to
a
BBC
EBU
event
that
the
First
Minister
has
withdrawn
from.
At
what
point
do
you
have
to
balance
out
what
you
would
regard
as
public
interest
of
challenging
views,
which
I
accept
that
those
arguments
have
been
rehearsed
with
views
that
are
simply
beyond
the
peal
of
acceptable
public
debate?
G
No
matter
how
wide
you
try
and
have
the
spectrum,
for
example,
public
debate.
The
the
first
minister
said
that
the
BBC's
response
to
her
described
mr.
bannon
as
a
powerful
and
influential
figure
promoting
an
anti
elite
movement.
Well,
he
promotes
a
pro
white
movement.
He
is
a
white
nationalist
at
what
point
is
someone
beyond
the
pale
I
mean
you
wouldn't
have
someone
who
would
advocate
Holocaust
denial,
Steve
Bannon
has
associated
with
Holocaust
deniers.
Where
does
the
wine
get
drawn
asked.
L
First
of
all,
mr.
beer,
a
we
respect
the
person
decision
not
to
participate
in
the
news
exchange
conference,
a
it
was
reported
in
the
press
that
BBC
Scotland
had
invited
SD
pan,
and
that
is
not
the
case.
The
conference
is,
you
rightly
point
out,
is
an
EBU
European
broadcaster
broadcasting
Union
a
conference
and
the
BBC
is
a
member.
L
G
You
recognize
the
concern
about
this,
but
it's
not
just
on
mr.
Rollins
history
as
a
white
nationalist,
but
the
long
history
of
the
platforming
of
those
of
extreme
far-right
views
under
the
guise
of
challenging
them
for
those
views,
but
which
has
resulted
in
the
absolute
opposite.
We've
got
a
solid
centuries
worth
of
evidence
of
that
being
the
case.
I.
L
A
H
Was
just
to
see
is
another
case
of
Nick
Griffin's
appearance
on
question
team
actually,
ultimately
led
to
the
effect
of
destruction
of
that
political
party
by
exposing
his
ludicrous
views
to
the
rest
of
the
the
United
Kingdom,
who
perhaps
were
not
that
it?
Well,
we
an
awesome
and
the
party
went
and
a
precipitous
decline
as
a
result
of
that.
A
D
There
has
been
a
reduction
over
that
period
of
eight
point,
six
percent,
so
perhaps
we
could
hear
why
that
is.
And
secondly,
if
the
plans
that
Mr
Morrison
referred
to
are
just
bringing
you
back
to
where
you
where,
because
it
seems
that
that's
quite
a
considerable
job
in
terms
of
these
particular
so.
J
I'm
going
to
ask
the
Nelda
to
talk
more
closely
about
BBC
Alba,
but
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
over
the
last
three
years
we
have
increased
our
investment
in
BBC
Alba
from
5.5
million
pounds
a
year
and
said
this
year,
which
is
not
in
your
current
brief
because
we're
looking
at
last
year.
But
last
year
we
spent
7.9
million,
and
this
year
were
in
we're
going
to
spend
9.1
million.
J
L
So
I
think
what
you're
seeing
there
is
a
fluctuation
in
terms
of
the
numbers
of
repeats
of
programs
and
in
in
these
genre
that
you
identify
and
in
any
given
year,
you
will
have
a
fluctuation
in
the
numbers
of
programs
in
these
areas
that
are
transmitted
on
BBC
Alpha.
As
Steve
has
just
said.
We
have
continued
to
increase
our
investment
in
BBC
alpha.
We
did
in
fact
a
introduced
weekend
new.
D
D
D
L
L
It's
significantly
increasing
the
amount
of
origination
on
BBC,
which
is
been
something
that
has
been
a
worry
and
a
course
of
concern
for
the
Garlic
speaking
audience,
who
want
to
see
more
originator
programs
as
opposed
to
repeats,
but
we've
also
been
working
very
hard
with
others
across
the
BBC
to
extend
the
value
of
what
we
do
a
elsewhere
and
with
our
children's
department.
A
for
example,
which
is
based
on
source
offered
we've
just
recently
again
to
coincide
with
the
10th
anniversary.
I
introduced
a
new
children's
programs.
L
New
origination
switch
will
come
up
in
the
figures
next
year,
they're
not
there
yet
and
but
we're
looking
at
roughly
6
years
a
year
of
additional
children's
originations
and
then
over
and
above
that,
and
some
reversion
in
that.
It's
also
been
a
strategic
and
ambition
for
Bebe's
helper
to
concentrate
on
children
and
young
people
and
given
the
growth,
a
of
numbers
of
speakers
in
that
naughty
area
and.
D
L
Currently
for
BBC
opera,
and
indeed
for
the
New
Scotland
Channel,
we're
working
with
the
New
Scotland
Channel
when
about
70
75
different
companies
and
I,
think
that
will
ensure
a
lot
of
job
creation
in
the
market
over
and
above
the
the
job
creation
that
Steve
mentioned
in
terms
of
what
we
do
was
in
the
BBC,
but
also
for
BBC
alpha
BBC
upper
Commission's
about
75%,
sometimes
more
than
that
of
its
output
from
independent
production
companies.
So
I
think
you
know,
aside
from
the
spend
on
the
actual
program.
L
So
then
again
is
the
multiplier
effect,
so
for
every
pound,
I
think
what
that
translates
into
least
two
pounds
of
value,
so
I
think
I
think
the
investment
is
significant
and
and
I
do
think
that
we
are
encouraging
and
skills
and
new
a
aim.
We
have
lots
of
training
schemes
we
have
em.
Aside
from
a
n
FTS,
which
Steve
mentioned,
we've
also
got
apprentices.
We
have
general
some
trainees,
we've
recruited
about
51,
new
journalists
and
positions
of
the
80
that
we
have
to
recruit
further,
that
for
the
new
service
for
the
new
9
o'clock
news.
L
J
I
was
very
fortunate
to
do
when
I
was
appointed
was
I
was
taken
by
Margaret
Mary
Marie
to
Inverness
and
Skye,
an
in
Skye.
They
were
making
in
the
Galaxy
King
further
education
College
the
Gallic
drama
Bannen,
which
has
actually
been
very
successful
for
the
size
of
that
channel,
was
quite
a
very,
very
significant
undertaking,
much
more
expensive
than
you
would
expect.
Well,.
D
A
I
You
talk
about
being
ambitious
and
bold,
and
we
already
heard
that
there
are
a
number
of
occasions
where
there
seems
to
be
an
a
decrease
in
some
areas
and
especially
when
we're
looking
at
the
local
content,
there
has
been
a
decrease
in
that.
Can
I
ask
why
why
that
has
been
prioritized
in
that
way.
The.
J
The
local
spend
for
this
year
is
0.9
million
down
from
2016
17
in
2017
18.
Now
in
2016-17,
the
figures
benefited
from
two
series
of
two
doors
down
which
transmitted
in
the
financial
year
compared
to
one
series
in
2017
18,
and
the
cost
of
comedy
is
such
that
not
having
a
series
of
comedy
would
easily
take
up
that
kind
of
sum
of
money.
J
In
addition,
the
transmission
of
still
games
series
8
cross
the
two
financial
years,
but
two
episodes
transmitting
in
the
2018
19
financial
year,
which
is
not
the
year
the
year
that
you're
referring
to,
but
it's
just
an
accident
of
timing
and
and
the
availability
of
talent
that
just
pushed
two
episodes
out
of
one
financial
year
into
another.
So
there's
no
intent
here
to
reduce
the
local
span.
Quite
the
opposite.
Okay,.
I
You
talked
about
the
availability
of
talents,
I
think
one
of
the
biggest
issues
that
the
BBC
have
faced.
Oblate
has
been
the
gender
pay
gap
and
that
has
rocked
the
BBC
shocked
the
community
at
large
and
it
has
damaged
the
reputation
of
the
BBC.
So
can
I
ask
how
BBC
Scotland
are
tackling
that
issue
to
ensure
that
we
here
in
Scotland,
are
seen
as
as
managing
that
crisis
that
you
know,
faith
well.
J
K
You
in
terms
of
the
gender
pay
gap
overall,
what
we
reported
in
the
financial
year
that
we're
looking
at
here
is
the
reduction
in
the
gender
pay
gap
across
the
whole
of
the
BBC.
From
nine
point
three
to
seven
point:
six,
which
is
is
not
where
we
want
to
be
we're
working
to
drive
that
down
further,
but
it
represents
that
some
good
progress
in
the
year
the
gender
pay
gap
in
Scotland.
K
K
And
so
we've
completed
similar
studies
around
disability,
which
was
published
earlier
this
week,
which
I
led
Social
Inclusion
led
by
my
colleague,
Alan
Davy,
who
runs
Radio
3eme
red
button,
led
by
Tim
Davy,
who
is
responsible
for
BBC
studios
on
on
the
main
board
with
me,
and
also
LGBT,
which
we
looked
at
but
I
think
pertinent
to
your
question.
The
most
important
is
actually
the
work
undertaken
very
successfully
by
it
by
denardis
I,
don't
know
if
you'd
like
to
talk
about
that.
Maybe
some
of
the
local
initiatives
in
Scotland
or
the
progression
so.
L
And
on
that
a
we
have
a
particular
opportunity
in
Scotland,
now
I
believe
to
experiment
and
pilot
in
terms
of
how
we
go
about
recruiting
and
with
colleagues
elsewhere
in
the
BBC
who
are
also
looking
at
this,
and
we
have
undertaken
with
all
these
new
positions
to
increase
their
targets
in
terms
of
all
the
protected
characteristics
that
a
and
referred
to
there,
but
particularly
as
far
as
gender
balance
is
concerned,
and
so
far
in
our
news
recruitment,
and
we
have
52
percent
of
women
appointed
to
the
rules.
And
somebody
did
ask
me
a
question
recently.
L
You
know,
were
we
in
some
way
in
danger
of
of
harming
quality
or
recruiting
low
right
people
if
we
were
making
these
kinds
of
interventions
can
I
just
say.
This
is
absolutely
within
all
kinds
of
quality
hit
legislation
adhering
to
that,
but
also,
and
that
we
are
actually
sourcing
excellent
women
who
will
be
brilliant
in
their
in
the
jobs
that
they
have
been
appointed
to
and.
I
I
think
you
know
you've
identified
that
you
you're
tackling
that
issue
and
you've
been
late
to
the
table
in
some
respects,
in
comparison
with
some
other
organisations
and
instructors
around
and
and
you're
learning
from
other
organisations
what
you
can
achieve
and
how
you
can,
how
you
can
progress
that
and
and
can
I
ask
how
how
how
will
that
eventually
be
audited
and
and
scrutinized
to
ensure
that
we
will
see
a
a
treat
coming
through.
It's
not
just
a
blip
in
the
system
or
you've
attempted
to
support
some
mechanism
to
enhance
it
for
a
short
time.
K
K
People
from
the
license
fee
is
another
measure
that
is
monitored,
and
we
can
speak
more
about
that
if
that's
helpful,
but
in
addition,
what
the
the
Executive
Board
will
have
is
both
the
specific
recommendations
for
each
of
the
studies
and
a
consolidated
view
of
them,
so
that
we
can
monitor
on
a
regular
basis,
progress
against
those
actions
and
the
BBC
Board
can
take
additional
insurance
on
that
as
needs
be.
But
ultimately
the
measure
will
be
that
the
targets
that
we've
set
the
representation
are
achieved.
Okay,
thank.
A
D
K
People's
salaries,
how
many
women,
but
the
position
in
terms
of
looking
at
pay
and
equal
and
questions
of
equal
pay,
which,
of
course
different
from
the
gender
pay
gap,
which
is
at
the
heart
of
your
question
as
I
understand
it.
We
have
undertaken
fundamental
reform
of
the
way
in
which
we
manage
pain.
The
baby.
K
Can
tell
you
how
many
women
have
outstanding
questions
with
us
about
that
pay
which
we've
not
yet
worked
through.
So
at
the
moment
we
have
12
women
in
BBC
Scotland,
who
have
asked
us
to
look
at
their
pay
in
a
way
that
we're
seeking
and
we'd
cease,
because
our
mechanic
with
this
is
we
audit.
We
check
we
look
and
if
we
find
issues
we
correct
them
and
that's
it
is
the
heart
of
the
reform
of
our
paying
conditions
that
we've
undertaken.
K
In
addition
to
that,
anybody
across
the
BBC
men
and
women
can
raise
questions
about
their
pay
named
comparators
and
us
and
asked
us
to
look
at
this
and
we've
had
very
many
queries
come
up
across
the
whole
of
the
BBC
about
that
the
vast
majority
of
them
very
straightforward
police
check,
my
pay.
Some
of
them
are
very
much
more
serious
questions
of
equal
pay,
which
date
back
over
many
years.
K
As
everyone
will
be
aware,
we
deal
with
those
questions
as
they
come
up
and
see
to
resolve
them
at
the
end
of
last
week,
which
is
and
I
look
at
progress
on
cases
every
week
in
an
effort
to
progress
and
speed
up
I
want
these
cases
dealt
with
as
quickly
as
possible,
just
as
everyone
else
does.
When
I
looked
at
those
figures
at
the
end
of
last
week,
there
were
12
people
in
Scotland,
I,
believe
they're.
All
women
who've
asked
us
to
look
at
their
pay
and
look
at
it
through
that
informal
resolution
stage.
K
I,
don't
know
whether
some
of
those
will
result
in
in
pay
increases
either
forwards
or
backwards.
Until
that
work
is
complete
and
there
are
four
women
in
Scotland
who've
moved
onto
the
moor.
Who've
asked
us
to
move
on
to
the
more
formal
grievance
stage
where
there
are
independent,
there's
an
independent
person
sitting
along
the
BBC
case
manager
from
outside
of
the
debasement.
Looking
at
the
case
that
doesn't
answer
your
question
because
I
don't
know
the
outcome
of
those
cases,
but
those
are
the
cases
where
the
questions
been
raised
right
now.
Okay,.
D
K
Very
much
Jim
McLean
at
different
stages
and
convener
I
know
you
want
to
move
through
the
agenda,
but
just
to
be
clear
when
we're
speaking
about
informal
resolution,
we're
not
talking
about
something
which
lacks
rigour.
That
is
a
serious
piece
of
work
with
HR
professionals
and
legal
advice
taken
where
needed
to
consider
the
issues
carefully.
However,
the
the
question
is
framed,
then,
when
it
moves
on
to
a
formal
stage,
that's
the
BBC's
internal
formal,
grievance
policy,
where
there's
also
an
independent
person
brought
in
to
look
at
the
questions
raised.
Okay,.
F
You
can
be
a
good
morning.
Panel
can
I
ask,
can
I
start
first
of
all
by
saying
that
I
think
that
the
value
for
money
that
you
Collins
has
get
from
the
a
license
fee
is
tremendous
and
I
thought
think
I
said
enough:
I
subscribed
to
your
whole
minor
of
commercial
content
providers,
Netflix
sky
virgin,
etc
and
I
think
a
hundred
fifty
pounds
for
the
wide
breadth
of
content.
F
No
I
appreciate
there
have
been
developments
for
BBC
three
I
appreciate
their
is
a
targeted
push
with
new
technical
developments
such
as
the
sounds
app,
but
these
in
isolation
do
not
address
fundamental
problem
or
the
existential
problem
the
BBC
has
is
that
younger
audiences
are
shifting
to
commercial
content
providers.
What
are
you
doing
to
address
that.
J
Book
the
main
board
was
the
first
sort
of
organization,
because
we
get
monthly
audience
reports
to
begin
to
examine
and
we
announce
Tanner
annual
report.
As
you
say,
this
was
now
one
of
the
biggest
issues
that
we
were
considering
and
working
out
how
to
correct.
So.
The
first
thing
is,
we
agree
with
you.
We
think
that
dropping
off
of
young
viewers
is
a
very
important
challenge
to
the
future
of
the
BBC.
J
Whilst
one
says
that
the
BBC
is
actually
the
the
first
media
organization,
which
gets
the
most
time
spent
by
young
viewers,
so
we
are,
we
are
losing
viewers,
but
where
we're
still
retaining
viewers.
Now
last
week
we
took
the
Scotland
committee
to
dundee
and
after
the
committee
we
had
an
audience
engagement
session
with
about
25
18
to
34
year
olds,
asking
them
why
they
they
were
not
watching
the
BBC.
J
What
turned
out
was
they
were
watching
certain
individual
programmes
that
either
they'd
forgotten
or
had
absorbed
and
liked,
but
maybe
we're
not
necessarily
watching
them
on
a
BBC
screen,
so
they
might
be
watching
them
on
a
Netflix
screen
or
a
social
media
screen.
So
there
is
a
question
of
attribution
involved
here
where
some
people
don't
know
they're
actually
watching
it.
Presumably.
J
No,
it
is
public
service
programs
which
have
been
transmitted
but
are
then
transmitted
on
on
another
screen.
But
my
view
is:
we
have
to
take
quite
a
bold
view
of
this,
and
the
board
has
discussed
what
are
the
options
available
to
us
to
capture
more
younger
viewers.
If
there
are
basically,
two
categories
of
programs
are
affected.
J
K
I
think
you
raise
a
question.
We
consider
all
the
time
and
there's
a
relentless
focus
on
it.
I
think
it's
important
to
set
it
in
an
overall
context
in
that
seventy-five
percent
of
young
people
that
we
speak
to
support
the
bbc's
mission
and
seventy
percent
of
them
believe
we
do
it
effectively.
So
there's
a
great
deal
of
support
for
the
BBC
amongst
younger
audiences.
Still,
where
are,
as
Steve
said,
the
largest
media
provider
for
young
adults
still
safer.
K
Sixteen
to
thirty
Falls
they're,
still
taking
eight
hours
a
week
from
the
BBC,
and
that's
that's
well
ahead
of
the
next
one
and
nine
and
ten
young
people
visit
BBC
online
in
a
given
month.
The
other
thing
I
think
that's
very
interesting,
and
we
picked
this
up
through
qualitative
discussions
such
as
the
session
that
Steve
just
referred
to
is
when
something
happens.
Young
people
still
come
to
the
BBC
for
their
for
their
news
to
feel
confident
about
it.
K
So
trust
schools
for
the
young
for
the
BBC
fifty
well
about
fifty
percent
versus
single
digits,
low
single
digits,
for
example,
for
Facebook.
But
but
our
view
of
it
is
that
there
isn't
a
single
answer
to
it.
We
have
to
work
on
everything
and
think
about
youth.
So
that's
casting
that's
tone
of
voice.
That's
the!
How
we
manage
through
the
schedule
breaks
how
we
reach
out
on
people.
K
The
tone
of
our
art,
programming
and
at
the
heart
of
it
is,
is
also
using
BBC
online
services
and
the
signing
mechanic
and
the
opportunity
to
personalize
and
direct
material
that
we
think
is
going
to
be
right
for
audiences
from
the
whole
of
the
BBC's
catalogue
in
a
very,
very
focused
way.
So
we
now
have
thirty
three
and
a
half
million
signed
in
users.
Very
many
of
those
are
young
people
and
there's
an
opportunity
there
to
mark
mark.
It's
not
a
word.
K
We
use
a
lot
but
to
market
and
to
show
them
the
breadth
and
the
range
that
we
have
in
the
BBC
and
to
encourage
them
to
come
to
us
and,
alongside
all
of
that,
one
of
the
other
areas
that
we've
redirected
resources
is
into
children's
programming
and
to
increase,
focus
there
and
allow
this
balance
between
investment
in
linear
and
investment
in
digital
services.
To
encourage
children
to
come
to
the
BBC
so
that
they
they
know
us
and
love
us
in
the
in
the
way
that
previous
generations
have.
But.
J
F
Appreciate
your
warm
words
and
actions
on
that
and
I
do
wish
you
the
best
of
luck,
a
sort
of
competitive
environment
to
operate
and
that
to
the
audience
if
I
could
move
on
to
I
think
Mike.
One
of
my
colleagues
is
going
to
talk
about
the
new
channel,
but
if
I
could
open
up
that
discussion
by
just
asking
a
short
question
on
the
one
is
a
technical
one
and
that's.
Why
is
the
beauty
taking
a
decision
not
to
broadcast
that
channel
fully
in
HD
on
digital
terrestrial
and
chosen
only
to
deliver
it
on
an
evening?
F
Slot
presume
a
suit
availability
of
capacity
on
the
transponder
other
multiplexers,
but
is
that
because
there
is
simply
no
more
class
available
or
because
you've
made
taking
a
financial
decision?
That's
too
expensive
to
do
so?
That's
the
first
question
and
I'll
Park
that
and
the
second
part
system,
Mr,
Morrison
or
Steve.
For
me,
and
that's
that's
that
the
fact
that
you
come
from
an
interesting
background
and
that
you've
worked
in
the
commercial
production
sector.
F
L
So
what
we
have
secured,
however,
is
HD
on
all
platforms
and
except
Freeview
between
the
hours
of
midday
and
7
o'clock,
but
it
will
transmit
in
HD
in
the
evenings,
and
that
happened
by
way
of
a
CBBC
forfeiting
some
of
its
HD
spectrum.
In
order
to
allow
us
to
do
that,
for
which
we're
very
grateful.
Julie.
F
I
mean
you
know
if
the
gross
respect
that
doesn't
mean
that
daytime
audiences
are
forced
to
watch
the
program,
a
nasty
and
evening
audiences,
the
people
who
are
working
during
the
day
can
enjoy
in
HD.
You
know
in
a
modern
day,
an
age
when
you're
trying
to
compete,
as
we
just
discussed
that
with
commercial
operators,
you
know,
do
you
really
think
people
are
content
with
st
broadcasts
and
big
screens
these
days.
K
That's
to
be
struck
isn't
that
null
set
depends
on
the
nature
of
the
programming
that's
on,
but
but
that
striking
a
balance
between
investment
in
distribution
across
multiple
platforms,
which
is
very,
very
expensive
versus
investment
in
content.
Is
that
one
of
the
judgments
that
we
we've
had
to
make
in
looking
at
the
set
up
from
the
do
channel
and
the
view
that
we
took
was
we
wanted
HD.
K
A
J
You're
right,
I
have
launched
four
channels
myself
over
the
years
and
launching
a
channel
is
very,
very,
very
difficult
because
you
have
to
get
the
public
to
be
aware
that
that
channel
has
been
launched,
which
you
shouldn't
assume.
They
are
aware
and
to
know
the
button
the
spot
on
the
EPG
on
whichever
system
they're
watching
television,
and
then
they
have
to
feel
that's
a
channel
for
the,
and
these
are
all
big
things.
J
You're
launching
a
new
proposition,
however,
I
think
the
progress
so
far
suggests
that
the
production
community,
which
you
mentioned
the
independent
community
in
Scotland,
have
responded
to
this
very
well,
so
Steve
Carson
who's
in
charge
of
the
overall
commissioning
team
has
explained
to
us
that
they've
engaged
in
program
commissions
with
75
independent
production
companies,
they've
published
programme
tariffs,
and
there
was
a
loss
of
debate
at
the
beginning.
Whether
these
program
tariffs
would
be
high
enough
and
in
fact
the
production
community
have
responded
very
well
to
the
briefs,
the
commissioning
briefs
that
were
put
out.
J
So,
listening
to
your
question,
we're
on
it
and
the
guy
running,
it
is
very
confident
in
it
and
is
presented
to
the
Scotland
committee
twice
and
we've
seen
the
schedule
develop,
so
I
have
great
hopes
for
it,
but
we
should
not
underestimate
that
we
are
launching
a
completely
new
channel
into
the
ether
and
we
shouldn't
imagine
that
mass
audience
will
suddenly
turn
up
to
it.
It
will
have
to
build
and
we'll
have
to
give
it
time
to
build.
We.
B
Hey
thanks
and
feel
free
to
call
me
whatever
you
like.
I
am
too
many
things
occasional
evening,
my
name
and
and
can
I
see
the
new
channels
when
you
broadcast
there's
a
five
hours
a
day,
seven
to
twelve
yeah
afternoon
yeah
and
accordingly
the
information
we
have
fifty
percent
these
shows
will
be
repeats
or
archived
programs.
How
long
will
the
nine
o'clock
news
and
programmes
will
run
for
one.
B
So
we
have
to
Thursday
is
going
to
be
unique
new
programming
because
50%
is
going
to
be
repeats
and
Nagaraju
is
going
to
be
news
bulletin.
The
main
news
program
and
there's
also
going
to
be
short
on
news
bulletins
through
that
is
so
maybe
we
could
take
another
half
hour
that
so
what
pains?
There
is
two
million
for
one
hour
of
new
production.
J
J
J
B
J
What
I'm
saying
is
that
was
the
the
rule
of
the
the
the
term
the
Ofcom
laid
down.
What
we
found
in
the
beginning,
through
various
means,
is
that
we
are
commissioning
more
than
50%
of
originated
hours,
so
it
may
turn
out
that
we
end
up
with
more
I.
Don't
want
to
say
what
that
number
will
be,
because
we
don't
know,
but
it
may
be
that
it
is
considerably
more
than
50%.
We
have
to
see
how
the
money
and
the
programs
and
have
everything
beds
down
according.
L
B
J
J
There
would
be
little
point
in
taking
the
archived
programs
and
we
do
actually
have
archived
programs
on
the
iPlayer,
but
it'd
be
little
point
in
taking
all
the
archived
programs,
some
of
which
a
lot
of
people
want
to
see
off
that
channel.
If
that
meant
that
we
couldn't
afford
to
pay
the
program
tariffs
for
the
original
program
and
we
ended
up
with
a
lot
more
quantity
and
a
lot
less
quality.
So
when
you
launch
a
new
channel,
it
is
quite
normal
to
have
that
kind
of
balance
that
you
described.
J
If
you
watch
some
of
the
smaller
channels
are
available
in
the
digital
sphere,
you
will
notice
that
at
nine
o'clock,
that
is
an
hour
of
new
original
programming
and
around
those
hours,
those
peak
programmes.
There
are
other
kinds
of
programmes.
Some
might
be
acquisition.
Some
might
be
things
you've
seen
before
this
channel
is
actually
better
set
up
financially
than
virtually
any
digital
channel
in
the
rest
of
the
UK.
B
I
mean
I
think
the
issue
ultimately
comes
down
to
the
quality
of
what
we're
going
to
be
watching
and
the
lessons
that
we
run
from
a
Stevie
to
who
we
are.
You
know
at
times
nobody
was
watching
any
of
the
programs,
because,
frankly,
they
were
repeats
or
a
piece
of
repeating
mode.
You
know
what
we
don't
want
us
is
that
we
become
Dave
and
they
were
watching.
You
know
the
dev
channel,
where
he
watched
Top,
Gear
24
hours
a
day,
if
you're
so
mainly
doing.
J
Will
from
what
I've
seen
of
the
schedule
you
do
as
yeah
exactly
and
a
lot
of
people
watch
it,
but
from
what
I've
seen
of
the
schedule,
this
will
not
be
a
repeat
channel.
This
will
be
an
originated
channel.
The
question
is
how
you
use
your
32
million
pounds
wisely
to
get
an
audience
and
to
show
them
original
material
alongside
material.
You
know
they
already
like.
L
An
opportunity
now
to
do
things
that
we've
never
done
before,
like
experiment
and
in
the
nether
of
regions
of
the
schedule.
I
think
it's
fair
to
say
that
we're
we're
trying
to
target
a
younger
audience
not
with
the
earlier
hours.
So
there
will
be
a
lot
of
new
and
innovative
and
possibly
some
risky
stuff
that
initiative
and
I'm,
confident
that
it
will
be.
It
will
offer.
A
Gambled
given
that
young
people
are
watching
this
television-
and
we
want
this
to
succeed-
is
mr.
Morrison,
as
I
said
before,
we've
conducted
a
long-running
inquiry
into
the
screen
sites
in
Scotland,
I.
Think
it's
fairly
universal
that
everybody
that
we
spoke
to
in
the
industry
said:
there's
not
enough
money
going
into
this
channel
and
I
think
that
the
questions
from
the
orphan
League
and
your
responses
of
seem
to
suggest
that
no,
we
know
some
of
the
programs
that
are
going
to
be
made.
A
J
J
Me
what
I
am
doing
so
number
one,
the
the
the
network
of
the
BBC,
both
financially
and
in
collaboration
on
programmes
which
will
be
some
of
which
will
be
commissioned
by
the
channel
and
by
the
network,
are
being
extremely
supportive
in
helping
us
get
programs
that
otherwise
the
channel
on
its
own
could
not
afford.
Now.
I
can't
say
exactly
what
those
are,
because
that,
hopefully,
will
be
a
pleasant
surprise.
The
viewer
and
they
haven't
yet
been
announced.
But
I
can
tell
you
the
will
be
drama
on
this
channel,
which
you
said
there
wouldn't
be
I.
J
A
J
No
just
let
me
answer
just
let
me
answer
the
thing.
We
have
persuaded
our
network
colleagues
to
help
us
financially
and
help
us
with
Co
commissioning
programmes
to
give
this
channel
the
best
liftoff
it
possibly
can.
We
are
all
the
time
persuading
colleagues
both
on
the
board
and
on
the
executive
to
regard
it
as
a
priority
to
support
this
channel,
which
they
are
all
doing.
H
Much
can
be
done.
That's
no!
Don't
whites
Bennett
delete
a
few
months.
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
concerns
the
public
is
the
kind
of
colossal
salaries
people
in
their
BBC.
You
know
things
from
football
pundits
today,
due
to
present
as
I've
been
paid
and
clearly
one
of
the
ways
in
which
you're
reducing
average
male
salary
and
therefore
the
gender
gap
was
by
replacing
you
know
some
people
when
they
like
Chris
Evans,
for
example,
with
females
who
are
earning
a
lot
less
money,
such
as
Zoe
ball.
H
But
if
we're
going
to
the
the
Ofcom
report
was
published
in
to
a
fifth
of
October
and
the
report
concluded
that
viewers
in
scotland
watch
13%
more
BBC
TV
the
the
new
UK
average,
but
only
52
percent
of
people
in
scroll
to
have
a
favorable
overall
impressions,
we
we
see
compared
to
64%
of
all
UK
adults,
so
I'm
just
wondering
why
do
you
think
there
is
a
significant
difference?
And
how
will
this
will
the
channel
close
that
gap?
This
new
channel
can.
J
I
divide
that
into
two,
but
therefore
your
first
question
was
talking
about
pay,
so
can
I
ask
Ann
to
comment
on
what's
happening
to
our
pay
policy
in
the
BBC
and
then
your
second
question
was:
how
can
we
deal
with
the
portrayal
and
representation
which
encourages
more
viewers
to
watch
the
BBC
and
to
feel
good
about?
What
will
be?
Will.
H
L
And
combination
of
of
diagnosis
around
around
that
and
in
many
ways,
I
do
hope
that
the
channel
will
go
some
way
to
address
it.
That
is
one
of
the
main.
The
entrepreneuring
reasons
for
creating
it
and
I
also
think
to
have
an
hour-long
news
bulletin
at
the
heart
of
the
schedule
for
audiences
in
Scotland.
I
would
hope
will
improve
improve
these
general
impression
figures
that
were
talking
about,
and
it
has
long
been
a
case.
L
We
can't
replicate
what
they
do
with
this
new
channel,
but
and
I
think
when
we
look
at
some
of
the
the
drama
that's
been
commissioned
of
late
and
some
of
the
drama
that's
yet
to
appear
on
our
screens.
I
think
it
is
fair
to
say
and
I
agree,
I
agree
wholeheartedly
with
a
convener
and
a
returning
drama
would
be
fantastic.
L
As
you
rightly
point
out,
we've
just
transmitted
the
cry
which
was
made
by
a
Scottish
company
synchronicity
a
co-production
we've
got
six
by
forty
five
minutes
of
a
drama
called
click
which
is
aimed
at
younger
audiences.
We've
got
Shetland
five
coming
up
to
somebody
said,
and
we've
got
six
series
and
development,
and
we've
got
to
trust
me.
Cds
to
which
is
again
fooled
by
sixty
minute
drama,
beast
in
Scotland,
shot
in
Scotland
and
we've
got
another
commission
and
recently
announced
called
the
nest
which
again
six
hours.
L
These
will
all
make
a
difference,
I
believe
just
in
terms
of
people
feeling
that
they're
seeing
familiar
and
surroundings
that
they
see
their
hearing
accents,
which
reflect
the
reality
I
think
it's
really
important
to
have
that
critical
mass
as
opposes
what
I'm
trying
to
see
not
just
on
the
new
channel,
but
on
the
other
channels
too.
In.
J
The
recruitment
of
the
journalists
for
the
new
nine
that
the
new
news
hour,
they
are
going
all
over
Scotland
to
position
reporters
and
other
journalists
in
different
parts
of
Scotland.
So
everybody
is
absolutely
focused
on
what
you
just
described,
which
is
how
do
we
make
a
channel
that
reflects
modern,
Scotland
and
attracts
viewers
from
all
over
Scotland
because
they
see
themselves
or
people
like
themselves
on
it.
K
J
K
What
I
think
is
helpful
is
we
employ
twenty-five
to
thirty
thousand
on
our
presenters
over
the
course
of
the
year.
The
top
talent
list
that
is
published
people
pay
more
than
150
thousand
pounds
from
the
licence
fee
represent
0.2
percent
of
those
individuals,
1.4
percent
of
our
overall
spend,
but
the
programs
that
they
present
or
appear
on
make
up
40
percent
of
our
overall
viewing
across
radio
and
TV.
So
I
think
that
sort
of
gives
you
a
sense
of
the
job
that
they
do
and
we
have
had
a
rigorous
program
over
recent
years.
K
It's
spoken
about
in
the
annual
report
in
the
talent,
a
section
of
managing
down
the
the
overall
talent
bill
and
the
proportion
of
our
talent
that
that
are
paid
at
that
highest
level,
but
by
bringing
on
more
people
looking
for
more
of
a
mix
and
indeed
in
many
cases,
managing
down
the
cost
of
talent
over
time.
Okay,.
H
In
just
in
mr.
Morrison,
you
said
at
the
beginning,
you
said
that
in
wheels
there
was
a
disproportionate
amount
of
spend
from
the
BBC.
It's
actually
in
ninety
two
point:
three
percent
was
reason
license
fee,
but
from
your
own
figures,
three
hundred
and
fifty
percent
of
what
is
raised
in
license
fees
spent
in
London
forty
point.
H
J
There
is
I
think
you
might
have
noticed
it,
but
it's
going
to
gather
pace.
There
is
an
out
of
London
policy
within
the
BBC.
We
are
now
commissioning
more
programs
from
out
of
London
establishing
a
basis
in
different
parts
of
the
UK.
Now
as
it
happened
in
Scotland,
we
established
a
factual
base,
so
I
think
the
next
step
for
the
Scottish
industry,
in
my
personal
opinion,
is
to
try
and
work
out
a
way
to
build
a
sustainable
scripted
base.
J
So,
as
Donalda
said,
we
have
some
very
renowned
drama
companies
in
Scotland,
but
actually
quite
a
small
number.
Therefore,
in
partnership
with
organizations
like
creative
Scotland
and
other
partners,
I
think
it
is
a
task
to
try
and
build
up
the
scripted
base.
The
indigenous
scripted
company
based
in
Scotland,
which,
because
of
the
size
of
the
projects,
would
actually
increase
the
size
of
the
TV
production
industry
quite
dramatically.
J
H
J
It
takes
having
started
such
a
policy,
but
it
literally
takes
years
establish
a
serious
amount
of
production
out
of
out
of
London
bases,
so
sulfur
took
some
years
to
build
up.
Cardiff
took
some
years
to
build
up
I
think
there
is
an
opportunity.
Now
we
see
that
creative
Scotland
is
changing
its
strategy
from
more
of
an
Arts
Council's
strategy.
J
Independent
independent
talent
strategy
towards
a
more
creative
industry
strategy
and
more
money
has
come
in
from
the
Scottish
Government
I
think
there
is
an
opportunity,
together
with
creative
Scotland,
together
with
other
partners,
to
build
up
our
scripted
base,
which
would
genuinely
allow
Scotland
to
get
more
serious
drama
contributions
onto
the
screen.
Now,
as
Donalda
says,
the
number
of
drama
series
over
the
years
has
gone
up,
but
I
think
there's
quite
a
lot
of
mileage
still
to
go
so
I'm
tending
to
agree
with
you,
but
I.
Don't
think
it
will
happen
by
tomorrow.
J
I
think
it
will
take
two
or
three
years
to
build
this
up.
But,
as
I
said
right
at
the
beginning,
this
year
were
in
will
see
seventy
six
point.
Seven
percent
of
the
license
fees
spent
in
Scotland
next
year
when
the
channel
running
throughout
the
year
will
be
nudging
towards
80
percent.
This
is
growing
all
the
time,
but
in
the
end
the
quarter
system
is
not
the
answer.
J
H
A
I
think
you
know
many
people
will
be
surprised
that
you
know
we
have
actually
in
this
committee
and
predecessor,
committees
been
talking
about
like
a
scripted
drama
from
Scotland
for
quite
a
long
time
and
I
think
this
committee
has
been
very
clear
in
its
reports
that
the
responsibilities
but
the
commissioners
notwithstanding
their
pleasure.
We
put
one
creative
Scotland,
but
the
commissioners
are
so
responsible
for
the
decisions
they
make.
Tavish
Scot
suppose.
E
No
and
if
I
could
ask
you
first
of
all
just
emphasize
the
point
you
made
at
the
beginning
about
things
like
Blue,
Planet,
I
mean
I,
think
the
BBC
should
push
there
push
what
you're
doing
a
little
more
in
Scotland,
because
a
lot
of
these
questions
you've
heard
today
I
think
are
just
indicative
of
you
know
over
a
well
an
inability
to
get
your
point
across
I.
Think,
frankly,
all
if
you
need
to
a
bit
more
of
that
about
seeing.
E
Why
do
what
the
benefits
of
blue
planet
across
Scotland
I
mean
we
the
license
fee
alone
on
that,
if
you
didn't
put
match
the
day
on
in
Shetland,
that'd,
be
outrage
in
our
household,
never
mind
anywhere
else.
So,
although
I
made
it
start
about
spent
and
the
importance
of
these
UK
productions
right
across
the
UK
are
really
important
and
I,
you
know
I
think
I
mean
occasion,
I
think
you
should
do
controller
live
now
and
again
the
take
viewers
crest.
You
need
the
controller.
J
E
Exactly
eat
the
control
you
do
that
thing.
On
the
news
channel
where
someone
a
senior
BBC
executive
goes
on
and
says:
why
did
Farraj
appear
on
that
package
about
the
700,000
bill
walking
through
through
London
a
few
weeks
ago,
I
mean
me,
see
I
thought
you
were
wrong
about
that,
doesn't
matter
at
least
at
least
a
BBC.
Exactly
that
to
answer
that
question.
So
I
think
you
need
to
if
I
may
say,
to
push
your
own
agenda
so
that
maples.
E
Are
balanced
by
the
fact
you
could
use
all
these
programs?
We
all
want
to
watch.
So
that's
my
I'm
gonna
get
that
off
my
chest
because
I
get
fed
up
listening
to
this
argument.
Every
time
we,
the
question
actually
wanted
to
ask
was
about
a
documentary
about
your
point
about
impartial,
tinder,
Aldo,
MacKinnon,
Smith,
very
the
very
same
point
about
impartiality,
BBC,
Scott
and
produced
a
documentary
called
dark
side
of
Deary,
which
I
don't
know
if
you
saw
not
but
three
things
about
it.
That
I
think
were
wrong.
E
Firstly,
it
did
not
explain
the
rigorous
inspection
and
transport
which
potat
carves
and
transport.
Secondly,
the
Scottish
government
vets
inspect
and
monitor
a
system
that
wasn't
explained
on
the
documentary
and,
lastly,
it
used.
It
used
footage
of
something
that
happens
in
another
part
of
the
world,
but
never
said
an
implant
and
instead
implied
that
was
going
on
in
Scotland.
That,
for
me,
failed
the
test
of
impostor
art
is
a
documentary
I,
wonder
if
you've
had
a
look
at
that
and
BBC
called
a
beauty,
Scott
and
hold
off
its
hands
and
say
right.
J
L
Soul
and
I
know
we
have
had
correspondents
on
on
this
particular
program
and
in
which
I
have
defended
it.
Quite
basically
the
journalism
of
the
program,
a
you
will
probably
know
that
a
formal
complaint
has
now
been
lodged
with
our
executive
complaints
units
and,
as
that
process
is
still
ongoing,
I
would
rather
see
nothing
more
about
it
until
that
they
deliberate
yeah.
E
A
You
thank
you
very
much
and
we'll
just
wind
up
now.
If
I
could,
just
before
we
do
that
astronauta,
it
should
pick
up
on
them
the
points
that
were
made
about
a
high-end
scripted
being
not
yet
commissioned
for
the
new
channel,
but
we're
told
it
would
be
commissioned
at
some
point
new
channel.
Could
you
tell
me
what
tired
of
three
that's
going
to
have.
L
L
A
And
and
finally,
supervisor
Neil
Finley's
point
about
original
content.
You
have
putting
a
node
of
news
on
at
nine
o'clock
and
and
mr.
Morrison
actually
made
the
point
that
most
channels
put
on
them
commissioned
new
content
at
nine
o'clock.
Is
there
any
everyone
I've
spoken
to
in
the
industry
says
that
that
is
a
big
mistake
that
you
will
not
attract
viewers
with
news
at
nine
o'clock
at
your
peak
time?
Is
there
any
possibility
of
that
decision
being
changed?