►
From YouTube: Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Relations Committee - Scottish Parliament: 15 June 2017
Description
1. Work programme (in private): The Committee will consider its work programme.
2. Decision on taking business in private: The Committee will decide whether to take item 3 in private.
3. International Development: The Committee will take evidence from-
Jane Salmonson, Chief Executive, Network of International Development Organisations in Scotland (NIDOS);
David Hope-Jones, Chief Executive, Scotland Malawi Partnership;
Dr Hazel Gray, Centre of African Studies/Global Development Academy, University of Edinburgh;
Dr Tanya Wisely, Co-ordinator, International Development Education Association Scotland (IDEAS);
Geraldine Hill, Advocacy Manager, Scottish Catholic International Aid Fund (SCIAF);
Heena Qamar, Charity Development Manager, First Aid Africa;
Professor Jo Sharp, Glasgow Centre for International Development, University of Glasgow.
4. International Development: The Committee will consider the evidence heard earlier in the meeting.
Published by the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body.
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A
Good
morning,
following
the
private
session
in
which
members
considered
its
white
program,
I
know
moves
meeting
into
public
and
welcome
you
to
the
16th
meeting
of
the
culture,
tourism,
Europe
and
External
Affairs
Committee
in
2017,
I'd
like
to
remain
members
and
public
to
switch
off
the
mobile
phones
and
any
members
using
electronic
devices
to
access
committee
papers
during
the
meeting
should
ensure
that
the
switch
to
silent
apologies
have
been
received
from
Jackson
Carla
and
I.
Welcome
Margaret
Mitchell
as
a
substitute,
welcome,
Margaret.
A
A
Federation
of
business
today
is
a
decision
on
taking
item
4
in
private.
Our
members
content
our
third
item
of
business.
Today
we
will
take
evidence
on
the
Scottish
Government's
international
development
strategy
and
we
have
a
range
of
stakeholders
who
have
come
to
give
evidence
to
air
today
and
I
would
like
to
start
by
inviting
our
witnesses
and
the
members
of
the
committee
and
to
introduce
themselves
and
I'll
start.
My
name
is
joel
mchale
clean
and
the
convener
of
the
committee
and
MSP
for
safe
Scotland,
Rossum.
D
I
J
K
L
M
A
You
very
much
I
think
perhaps
we
could
start
with
them.
Perhaps
a
general
question
on
what
you
see
as
the
main
challenges
are
for
the
your
sector
in
Scotland
and
perhaps
respond
to
the
refreshed,
a
Scottish
government
international
development
strategy,
which
others
which
was
them
unveiled
last
year
in
December
and
who
would
like
to
begin
I.
H
Shall
begin
when
I
joined
NIDA
last
year
we
took
part
in
a
major
strategic
planning
exercise
which
involved
going
round
to
speak
to
members
of
the
organization
all
the
way
around
Scotland.
So
the
voice
of
a
membership
came
across
in
what
were
people's
main
fears,
challenges,
aspirations,
hopes
goals
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
H
The
main
challenges
involve
particularly
concerns
over
funding,
how
they
will
manage
to
get
funding
for
their
work
as
more
and
more
sources
of
institutional
funding
appear
to
be
shrinking
and
with
fears
over
whether
breakfast
and
other
elements
were
going
to
have
a
squeeze
on
consumer
spending.
Therefore,
individual
donations,
so
a
concern
about
where
the
money
was
going
to
fund
from
from
their
work,
have
a
look
at
the
International
Development
strategy.
H
In
that
light,
whilst
10
million
from
the
International
Development
Fund
is
obviously
not
a
huge
amount
of
money
that
source
of
funding
being
secured
and,
furthermore,
increased
and
the
if
you'd,
like
the
moral
endorsement
and
encouragement
given
to
the
sector
in
Scotland,
is
really
very
warmly
welcomed.
So
the
production
of
the
new
strategy,
not
just
a
little
bit
of
extra
funding,
but
the
encouragement
from
the
sector
came
at
a
time,
I
think
which
was
very
well
received
by
the
international
development
community
in
Scotland.
Thank.
D
Maybe
if
I
may
3
headline
points
that
I'm
sure
with
the
panel
will
drill
down
further
into
later
on
challenges
and
opportunities.
I
guess
the
first
obvious
one
for
me
is
the
sustainable
development
goals
that
this
is
a
real
challenge
and
opportunity
for
Scotland
and
191
other
countries
that
have
signed
up
to
these
girls,
both
in
the
international
work
and
the
domestic
work
and
I
hope.
We
have
the
chance
this
morning
to
talk
about
the
goals.
I
think
there
is
a
challenge
in
Scotland
and
across
the
UK
in
the
media.
D
The
third
point
for
me
is
the
constructive
synergies
that
exists
between
government,
civic
society,
Parliament
business
and
academia
and
I
think
that's
been
the
great
strength
of
Scotland's
approach
to
international
development
that
there
has
been
close
collaborations
and
synergies
between
government
and
civic
society
and
I
think
this
very
strong
new
policy
sets
out
a
clear
framework
of
how
that
synergy
can
continue.
So
three
points
from
me:
SDGs
the
media
and
the
synergy
between
government
and
civic
society.
Thank.
I
You
much
for
inviting
me
here
and
I
think
that
in
for
the
center
of
African
Studies
in
the
global
development,
Academy
the
University
of
Edinburgh,
obviously
in
engaging
with
international
development,
our
biggest
concern
at
the
moment
is
the
implications
of
breakfast
for
students
and
research.
But
it's
also
a
very
exciting
time
for
us,
because
there's
such
a
thirst
to
understand
international
development
from
our
student
bodies.
So
we've
got
a
lot
of
interest
in
development
courses
and
across
all
of
our
teaching
areas
in
issues
related
to
international
development.
I
And
our
student
body
is
an
incredibly
outward-looking
a
group
of
students.
Our
challenge
is
also
very
much
around
building
ethical
partnerships
with
organisations
and
institutions
in
the
countries
where
we
are
researching
as
at
the
core
of
our
objective.
So
we
are
trying
to
develop
strategies
around
how
to
build
capacities
and
capabilities
and
develop
common
goal
setting
and
strategies
around
priorities
of
research.
I
Another
big
challenge
that
we
have
is
around
monitoring
and
impact
and
how
we
assess
the
validity
of
the
programs
that
we
are
trying
to
support
and
draw
from
all
of
the
Disciplinary
expertise
that
we
have
across
the
university
and
all
of
these
things
trying
very
much
with
the
new
strategy
and
is
particularly
around
the
role
of
expertise
and
what
that
means.
What
our
long
relationship
has
an
African
Studies
Centre
that
was
established
in
1952
and
is
the
biggest
in
Europe.
I
What
we
can
do
to
help
to
bring
expertise
together
on
Africa
and
more
broadly,
on
developing
countries
through
the
GTA,
but
also
because
our
research
is
very
much
based
on
collaborations,
both
within
Scotland
across
universities
and
different
types
of
organisation,
and
also
across
countries
where
we
research.
We
are
really
delighted
to
see
the
strategy
of
focusing
on
these
kinds
of
aspects
as
well.
J
And
I
think
first
public
say
our
work
with
global
citizenship.
Education
obviously
expands
the
international
development
and
size
and
education
side,
so
it
is
international
development
side
that
I'm
talking
about
here
and
I.
Think
the
key
thing
for
us
is
the
need
to
continue
to
build
and
develop
public
engagement
and
understanding
with
international
development,
and
obviously
the
issues
involved
are
very
complex
and
dynamic,
and
so
in.
In
our
view,
this
needs
to
be
underpinned
by
processes
of
Education
by
global
citizenship,
education,
which
is
a
well-established
and
participative.
J
We
have
been
engaging
people
rather
than
and
simply
informing
people
about
international
development
and,
in
terms
of
this
strategy,
I
think
the
key
frameworks
for
developing
this
public
understanding
are,
and
certainly
the
sustainable
development
goals
and
but
also
policy
coherence
for
development,
which
M
is
seen.
I
think
all
of
us
here
would
agree,
as
is
crucial
to
taking
forward
this
this
agenda
in
a
constructive
M
and
in
a
bit
of
way
and
the
other
two
points.
J
K
Much
hi
and
I
would
echo
some
of
what
my
colleagues
have
said:
I
think
ASCII
art.
We
have
been
really
delighted
to
see
the
ongoing
commitment,
both
in
the
government
and
in
the
parliament
to
international
development,
the
commitments
to
defining
the
climate
justice
funding,
the
humanitarian
emergency
fund.
We
think,
given
the
challenges
faced
and
claimed
it
today,
it's
really
good
to
see
the
separate
find
on
on
climate
justice.
K
We
really
welcome
that
and
we've
been
really
glad
to
see
the
focus
tone
and
the
strategy
we
think
focusing
in
on
limited
countries
and
geographical
areas
is
the
way
to
go,
and
we
also
think
focusing
down.
Somatically
is
the
way
to
go
and
making
sure
that
what's
done
and
if
it
isn't
replicated
and
duplicated,
but
it
can
what
my
colleagues
have
said.
I
think
David
mentioned
the
challenges
with
the
media.
We
see
that
as
well.
I
think
we're
not
quite
as
bad
up
here,
but
it's
definitely
an
ongoing
challenge
about
general
perceptions
on
international
development.
K
I
think
they
occur
again,
while
a
cannula
seeing
about
policy
coherence
for
development
I,
think
it's
really
important
that
there's
a
whole-of-government
approach
to
this
and
the
old
government
departments
are
considering
poopoo
policies
and
what
that
means
for
different
government
departments
for
policy
to
humans.
But,
as
is
also
a
really
important
thing,.
L
In
fact,
I'd
like
to
thank
in
the
committee
for
its
invitation
for
to
give
evidence
and
we're
a
young
organization
with
the
various
membership
across
Scotland
in
Africa,
and
the
majority
of
our
members
are
under
the
age
of
24
and
do
not
often
get
in
see
at
the
table.
So
we
appreciate
the
committee's
efforts
and
widen
participation
in
to
include
voices
like
ours,
and
so
my
colleagues
here
have
given
in
examples
of
how
it's
worked.
L
It
has
been
able
to
give
a
much
more
broader,
em
idea
of
how
it
works,
but
I
could
give
you
examples
of
how
it
works
for
smaller
organizations,
and
so
small
organizations
provide
great
value
for
money
for
an
example
for
seed
Africa
has
projects
where
we
can
train
and
equip
local
partners
as
first
responders
under
10
prints
per
head.
However,
there
is
a
limit
to
how
much
we
can
scale
this
up
and
monitor
and
evaluate
outcomes
at
the
same
time
without
additional
staff
capacity.
L
This
is
the
same
for
many
innovative
Scorch
organizations
where
the
biota
skill
is
started,
starting
in
our
colleagues
at
the
to
entrust.
Also
back
to
that,
we
had
conversations
with
him
as
well
and
in
we're
well
met
within
the
sector
office,
small
organization,
international
organizations-
and
this
is
a
challenge
that
permeates
civil
society
groups.
Our
level.
M
Would
I
would
concur
with
pretty
much
everything
that's
been
said
by
my
colleagues.
I
think
this
is
going
to
be
the
problem
of
being
the
last
person
speaking
so
I
wouldn't
I,
wouldn't
simply
reiterate
what
others
have
said,
but
we're
also
very
encouraged
by
the
the
language
of
the
of
the
statements.
The
the
emphasis
on
Scotland's
role
as
a
good
global
citizen,
I,
think
being
particularly
important
around
some
of
the
discussions
are
about
brexit,
which
has
led
to
a
lot
of.
M
Sort
of
instability
in
the
minds
of
staff
and
students
not
feeling
confident
in
their
in
their
role.
So
that's
a
positive
image
for
for
Scotland
on
the
on
the
global
stage.
We
are
particularly
encouraged
by
the
the
language
of
partnership
and
capacity
strengthening
and,
as
others
have
said,
there
are
challenges
with
engaging
Scottish
civil
society,
but
there's
other
challenges
to
ensure
that
the
voice
of
our
partners
really
does
come
through
in
the
partnership
to
ensure
that
policies
are
developed
collaboratively
between
partners
in
the
in
the
south
and
ourselves.
M
A
You
very
much
and
I
should
say
and
in
response
to
Professor
Charlotte.
This
is
a
general
question,
so
you
all
had
an
opportunity
to
answer,
but
you
don't
have
to
do
that
for
every
single
question
you
can
come
in
as
as,
and
Wayne
and
giantess
asking
neither
us
and
the
Scottish
Malawi
partnership.
I.
Note
that
you
are
course
funded
by
the
Scottish
Government,
and
you
mentioned
yourself.
Obviously
the
descries
on
public
finances
at
the
moment
and
the
need
to
diversify.
H
It's
not
easy,
partly
because
if
you
don't
want
to
cut
across
your
own
membership
in
your
fundraising,
then
the
you
know
the
raft
of
charitable
trusts
and
foundations
or
private
fundraising
that
you
can
do
always
have
to
answer
that
question.
Am
I
taking
money
from
my
own
membership?
The
strategy
which
we're
now
taking
is
to
prioritize
increasing
our
membership
and
our
membership
fee
income
and
it
status
that
will
be
for
us
the
number
one
source.
H
We
think
that
what
we
actually
deliver
through
being
successful
as
an
organization
is
greater
opportunity
for
networking,
which
kena
mentioned
connectivity
working
with
universities
working
across
all
the
sectors.
So
if
we're
successful
in
doing
that,
we
will
not
only
diversify
our
income
but
by
definition,
at
the
same
time,
get
far
better.
What
we're
doing
an
admiral
value
through
our
work
to
the
international
development
sector
in
Scotland.
H
What
Nigel
does
with
Scottish
government
funding
is
primarily
its
effectiveness
and
learning
program.
So,
therefore,
for
organisations
like
first
aid
Africa,
the
support
that
we
can
actually
give
and
their
own
organizational
development
in
capacity
building
is,
is
key
to
the
to
the
outcomes
to
the
success
which
is
kind
of
cross-cutting,
helping
the
sector
develop
and
do
better
to
to
exercise
to
practice
good
practice
development.
So,
therefore,
we
feel
we
shouldn't
really
charge
people
to
take
part
in
the
services,
because
we're
cool
funded
to
Corps
funded
to
do
it.
H
So
the
Scottish
Government
has
enabled
these
services
to
improve
the
performance
of
the
sector,
but
we're
moving
as
I
think
I
put
in
my
briefing
to
become
an
alliance
Scotland's
international
development
alliance,
which
will
open
up
the
opportunities
for
people
from
universities,
companies
and
other
sectors
involved
with
international
development
to
join
us,
which,
hopefully,
will
not
only
help
us
do
the
job
better,
but
also
bring
in
extra
sources
of
non-governmental
income.
For
us.
Thank.
D
From
our
own
perspective,
we
know
from
our
research
or
in
fact
the
University
of
Edinburgh
is
research
that
for
each
pound
put
into
that
the
Scotland
Malawi
partnership.
It
supports
180
pounds
coming
from
Scottish
civic
society.
It's
a
return
on
investment
that
would
be
envied
able
for
unders
anywhere
in
the
world,
and
that
is
in
part
because
of
the
sheer
number
of
Scots
involved
in
some
way
with
civic
links
with
Malawi.
D
Separate
research
suggested
that
46
percent
of
Scots
could
name
a
friend
or
family
member
with
a
connection
to
Malawi
working
with
and
through
networks
unleashes
a
powerful
multiplier
effect.
The
Scottish
Government
on
its
own
10
million
pounds
a
year,
would
have
comparatively
modest
impact
in
its
international
development
work
unless
it
worked
collaboratively
cooperatively
with
civic
society.
When
we
think
networks
are
an
excellent
conduit
for
that.
D
But
in
specific
answer
to
your
question,
we
are
funded
with
taxpayers
money
and
it's
entirely
right
that
we're
accountable
and
entirely
transparent
about
where
that
money
goes,
and
also
that
we
look
to
reduce
that
commitment
each
year
from
the
Scottish
Government.
So
we
are
actively
working
as
notice.
Any
other
networks
are
to
diversify
our
income,
similar
modalities
as
Jane
mentioned,
increasing
our
membership
fees,
I'm
looking
at
sponsorship,
corporate
partnerships
and
about
half
a
dozen
or
so
other
different
modalities
for
bringing
in
income.
D
But
there
is
a
critical
point
here,
and
that
is
how
do
we
do
that
in
a
way
that
is
scalable
and
sustainable
without
underpinning
undermining
the
very
values
that
have
made
it
so
successful?
We
have
237
Scottish,
primary
and
secondary
schools
engaged
with
Malawi
and
a
part
of
our
network.
It
would
be
very
sad
if
we
hiked
up
membership
fees
such
that
that
reduced
to
eight
or
nine
private
schools
alone,
so
it's
keeping
that
the
values
that
breadth
the
diversity
while
acting
innovatively
to
diversify
income.
Thank.
B
You
very
much
and
there's
a
lot
in
the
strategy
that
I
think
has
very
broad
support.
That
certainly
I
think
the
case
among
members
of
parliament
and
clearly
it's
the
case
from
the
evidence.
You've
you've
given
thus
far
so
some
of
the
questions,
I,
guess
that
are
in
the
practicalities
of
how
that
has
actually
delivered
and
I
know
from
the
submissions
that
we
received.
There
were
some
issues
around
the
way
in
which
that
funding
is
provided.
B
I
know
he
now
may
want
to
comment
on
the
gap
between
small
grant
funding
for
small
organizations
and
mainstream
development
assistance
for
like
for
well-established
projects
and
how
that
got.
My
page
they'll
be
very
interested
in
that,
and
also
I,
think
Ivy.
Listen
to
hear
a
little
more
from
sky
offered
by
the
question
of
ensuring
the
funding
is
predictable
and
well-managed
and
ensuring
that
it's
always
held
to
the
same
standards
of
accountability
and
transparency.
So
I
wonder
if
I
could
ask
in
and
tell
them
to
start
at
those
points.
L
And
so
currently,
as
we've
highlighted
in
the
notes
and
small
grant
program,
supports
organizations
with
a
specific
turnover
and
small
grants
up
to
eight
to
eight
thousand
per
year
or
new
innovative
projects,
and
so
within
the
in
development
assisting
funding
stream.
The
government
could
bridge
the
gap
between
successful
small
grant
recipients
and
in
the
main
development
program,
by
allowing
Assessors
flexibility
on
guidance,
around
turnover
and
Scottish
overheads,
alongside
bridging
that
gap
into
curricular
pathways
for
stealing
and
innovative.
So
it
consists
of
all
without
words
in
Scottish
development
program
projects.
L
The
government
could
fund
network
organizations
such
as
NATO's
and
got
my
partnership
to
support
trap,
it
charities
or
partnerships
following
this
pathways
in
quality
system.
Okay,
so
in
direct
funding
through
in
small
small
grant
funds,
which
has
been
beneficial
for
many
small
organizations
that
we've
been
in
touch
with,
it
would
be
easy
to
lose
this
focus.
If
the
geographic
focus
was
reduced,
we
would
support
broadening
the
geographic
reach
of
the
small
grants.
L
K
So
inadvertent
submission,
we
made
the
point
about
the
need
for
predictable
funding
and
funding
modules.
I
think
the
trialing
of
new
modules
has
been
in
response
to
some
of
the
consultation
that
happened
prior
to
this
strategy,
and
that
has
meant
that
some
funding
opportunities
are
more
predictable
now,
but
for
most
of
the
large
grant
funds
announced
today
and
Zambia
Grandin
Malawi
and
also
in
the
climate
challenge
program
in
Mali,
it
looks
like
there's
also
going
to
be
one
funding
opportunity
every
three
or
four
years
and
that's
pretty
limited
and
so
in
the
world.
K
I
think
we
welcome
innovation,
but
we
would
also
like
to
see
new
models
of
funding
developed
and
discussed
with
Scottish
agencies
before
the
child.
So
we
recently
had
the
experience
of
bedding
for
the
climate
challenge
program,
funding
through
Malawi
and
frankly,
it
was.
We
felt
it
was
a
bit
confused
and
rushed,
and
five
weeks
there
was
only
five
weeks
between
the
invitation
to
tender
and
the
deadline
for
submitting
the
bed,
and
it
was
unclear
whether
the
tender
was
going
to
be
for
a
fund
manager
and
so
questions
or
submitted
bit
little.
K
K
We
just
we
felt
that
that
didn't
work
really
that
well
and
there's
also
I,
think
maybe
a
question
around
increasing
use
of
fund
managers
to
manage
the
different
loans
so
for
Zambian
Rwanda,
and
also
the
climate
Innovation
Fund
I
think
my
question
I
had
about
that
would
be,
and
the
expense
of
using
external
contractors
and
whether
that's
coming
directly
from
the
development
spend
I.
Think
that's
a
point
and
then
the
other
thing
that
we
talked
about
in
the
written
submission
was
the
split
between
and
development
assistance
capacity,
strengthening
and
investment.
B
B
B
They
were,
you
are
with
like
TSP
Foundation
as
an
administrator
of
the
small
grants,
but
clearly
your
experience
in
dealing
with
larger
projects
is
not
satisfactory
and
I
wondered
if
there's
any
wider
license
that
any
other
witnesses
which
suggests
could
be
drawn
on
how
Scottish
government
may
I
take
David's
point
about
this
is
off.
This
is
a
modest
summit.
D
These
are
smaller
organizations,
often
not
used
to
the
to
the
language
and
process
and
structure
of
formal
applications
like
this
and
I
absolutely
commend
the
Lloyd
Lloyds
TSB
Foundation
every
single
applicant
who
is
eligible
in
this
program.
It
wasn't
a
contractual
choir
Manan.
They
spent
60
to
90
minutes
chatting
through
with
these
small
NGOs.
Well,
what
do
you
mean
by
this?
What
do
you
mean
by
that?
D
And
that
means
that
things
that
could
otherwise
be
insurmountable
hurdles
because
of
a
technical
language,
because
they're,
not
using
the
the
jargon
of
the
sector,
allowed
them
to
choose
the
very
best
projects,
not
just
the
best
presented
project,
so
I
think
the
role,
particularly
in
the
small
grants
program,
was
critical
for
Lloyds
TSB
foundation.
I
think
it's,
it's
really
been
very,
very
well
run.
On
that
basis,
you
know,
and
with
a
very
strong
positive
feedbacks
and
are
members
of
the
role
they
did.
D
Is
we've
been
very
impressed
with
the
Lloyds
TSB
foundation,
but
it's
also
a
fair
and
valid
point
that
making
sure
that
there
is
an
efficient
and
effective
program
and
that
those
grant
managers
are
offering
good
value
for
money.
But
so
far
we've
had
only
positive
things
to
say
about
Lloyds
TSB
foundation,
I.
H
Would
echo
the
praise?
That's
given
to
noise
TSB
foundation
where
the
small
grant
scheme
is
concerned
and
the
feedback
we've
received
even
from
the
classically
unhappy
applicant
who
didn't
get
on
the
treatment
from
Lloyds
TSB
Foundation
is
generally
very
good.
I
think
whether
main
grants
go
and
the
Rwanda
and
Zambia
main
grant
screen
is
new,
so
it's
being
tried
for
the
first
time
a
new
way
and
I've
certainly
received
some
negative
feedback
on
the
handling
of
that
one.
But
the
extent
to
which
the
new
scheme
is
developing
the
way
it's
being
rolled
out.
H
How
much
that
is,
is
in
the
hands
of
Lloyds
TSB
Foundation
and
how
much
they're
operating
a
mechanism
that
was
delivered
to
them.
I
wouldn't
be
entirely
sure.
But
I
would
just
say
that
I
would
welcome
the
fact
that
the
Scottish
Government
is
trying
out
a
new
approach
to
its
development
assistance
with
these
larger
longer-term
grants.
So
in
terms
of
the
impact
that
could
actually
be
made
in
country,
Zambia
and
Rwanda
through
funding
for
much
longer
period
and
larger
sums
of
money.
H
It's
a
good
and
worthwhile
experiment
which
I
think
we
should
all
be
welcoming,
but
it
then
gives
license
B
foundation.
A
completely
different
type
of
challenge
and
I
do
think
that
the
way
some
of
the
partner
organizations
overseas
were
expected
to
develop
a
concept
in
a
very
short
space
of
time
has
been
very
challenging.
But
perhaps
lessons
can
be
quite
useful
elearn
another
time,
so
we
can
learn
as
we
go
along
and
for
it
to
get
better.
H
But
I
would
also
want
to
support
Tina's
point
that
there
is
a
gap
in
the
middle
and
I
think
what
are
some
of
the
most
interesting
and
useful
international
development
organizations
in
Scotland.
It's
issue
like
the
graduates
of
the
small
grant
schemes,
the
organisations
who
have
grown
and
developed
and
becoming
really
useful
in
the
long
term.
M
Could
I
just
just
just
echo
that
that
the
point
of
the
the
necessity
of
having
the
range
of
size
of
grants,
if
we
really
are
emphasizing
the
importance
of
partnership,
to
be
able
to
demonstrate
and
to
build
genuine
partnerships,
takes
a
long
time
and
may
have
to
start
in
a
relatively
small
scale.
And
so
it's
really
important
that
there
is
support
at
each
of
these
scales
to
build
up
for
these
longer-term
projects.
That
really
can
make
a
difference,
but
they
have
to
be
built
upon
developing
those
relationships
of
trust
over
time.
L
And
so
over
the
past
few
years,
we
received
funds
for
a
feasibility
study,
a
capacity
building
grant
and
our
project
grant
until
we've
received
just
over
60,000
pounds
in
funding
with
this.
With
these
funds,
we've
provided
access
to
locally
sustainable
first
aid
resources
for
over
at
ten
thousand
people.
We
have
developed
online
learning
resources,
reach
remote
communities
where
access
to
pre-hospital
care
is
lacking
and
worked
with
local
partners
to
save
lives
in
communities
across
East
Africa
in
terms
of
sustainability.
This
fund
funding
has
helped
us
to
build
our
capacity
and
the
capacity
of
our
partners.
L
For
example,
in
Tanzania,
we
use
some
of
the
funds
to
launch
a
training
initiative
for
local
companies
which
raise
over
5,000
pounds
in
local
revenue
in
the
last
six
months
alone.
These
funds
can
then
be
used
to
provide
free
and
low-cost
training
to
low-income
communities
in
more
remote
areas
of
the
country,
creating
sustainable
local
funding
streams,
which
does
not
require
waste
and
hunt
handouts.
Our
restlessness
and
the
restlessness
of
other
organizations
like
ours
in
the
sector
comes
from
the
fact
that
we
know
we
can
do
more
because
of
small
grants.
K
The
years
EF
has
received
considerable
sums
of
money
and,
from
the
development
find
a
particular
food
and
nutritional
security
of
small-scale
farmers
and
the
Kalima
grant
was
for
that.
So
we
had
the
Zambia
part
of
the
work
funded
by
the
Scottish
Government
and
skia
Corps
funded
cost
shared
with
Burundi,
Malawi
and
I.
Think
in
that
program,
the
techniques
which
were
being
learned
for
sustainable
agriculture,
we're
really
key.
There
was
really
good
exchanges
going
on
between
the
countries
and
the
learning
was
coming
out
about
minimum
tillage
mulching.
K
These
kind
of
these
techniques
that
are
used
in
sustainable
agriculture
and,
in
fact,
those
techniques
we
are
now
promoting
in
other
countries
and
other
parts
of
the
world,
so
there's
been
really
really
good.
Learning
from
and
the
work
that's
funded
and
CF
has
also
received
considerable
funding
from
the
climate
justice
fund
for
water
in
water
projects
in
Rwanda,
and
then
also
much
funding
for
food
crisis,
appeals
and
various
other
things.
So
we
you
know
we
we
have
absolutely
no
complaints.
D
We've
been
building
Scottish
markets
for
15
Malawian
exports
and
encouraging
Scots
to
to
holiday
in
Malawi
on
youth
in
schools
we
run
an
annual
Youth
Congress
was
very
pleased
to
welcome
Ross
Correa
speaking
at
our
last
one,
which
brought
together
more
than
400
Scottish
young
people
from
over
20
different
schools
for
length
and
breadth
of
the
country
to
celebrate
and
share
about
their
links
with
Malawi
on
the
media.
Over
the
last
three
years,
we've
had
more
than
500
pieces
about
Malawi
in
the
Scottish
media,
with
around
95
percent
positive
in
tone.
D
Much
of
what
we
work
to
do
is
to
change
the
narrative
when
it
comes
to
international
development
and
the
relationship
with
Malawi,
to
move
away
from
a
narrative
of
pity
to
one
of
partnership
away
from
sympathy
to
solidarity,
and
we
work
to
coordinate
Scotland's
links.
We
have
various
national
forums,
including
in
health,
primary
and
secondary
education,
further
and
higher
education.
G
And
I
think
particularly
this
gear
and
example,
is
a
very
best
practice.
Opposed
funding
was
used,
the
outcomes
not
just
for
that
country,
but
how
they
can
be
then
repeated
in
other
countries
and
I.
Think
with
these
kind
of
outcomes
then,
and
the
likelihood
of
gaining
funding
in
the
future
becomes
much
more
opposed
to
40.
H
More
to
do
it
effectiveness,
so
what
we
have
been
able
to
do
over
the
last
three
years,
we've
just
come
to
the
end
of
a
three-year
funding
period.
We
have
an
evaluation
report
available
on
our
website.
So
if
anybody
would
like
to
to
look
at
it,
we
have
an
external
evaluation
commissioned,
but
it's
mentoring
schemes.
H
One-To-One
mentoring
is
available.
We
have
increased
the
readership
of
a
monthly
newsletter
to
about
two
and
a
half
thousand
readers.
Now
who
are
able
to
see
what
the
prime
concerns
are
of
the
international
development
community
in
Scotland
that
we
have
training
events
and
organizational
development
events,
we
have
a
website
which
people
can
use
for
their
own
effectiveness
toolkit
it's
called
to
improve
their
own
organizational
development.
H
The
improved
functionality
is
to
allow
organizations
from
all
the
way
around
Scotland
from
the
outer
Isles
down
to
the
depths
of
the
borders,
to
be
able
to
use
online
training
resources
and
online
connectivity
in
a
way
that
hasn't
so
far
been
possible,
so
that
that,
for
us,
is
a
key
development
in
getting
more
people
able
to
participate
over
the
next
three
years
ahead.
Thank.
A
E
K
And
we
haven't
done
that
best
of
my
knowledge,
but
I
was
just
going
to
come
in
in
response
to
something
that
Margaret
said,
which
was
that
we
have
developed
promising
practices
which
capture
the
learning
from
each
of
these
projects.
So,
if
anyone's
interested
in
the
key
learnings
of
comodo
work,
that's
been
funded
by
the
Scottish
Government,
we
have
a
series
of
promising
practices
and
we
can
certainly
share
them
with
people.
D
In
that
regard,
also,
the
raw
agricultural
common
off
society,
based
here
in
Edinburgh,
is
an
active
member
of
the
network
as
well,
but
in
regard
to
your
current
quest,
yet
there
are
very
strong
structures
and
systems
to
be
able
to
network
well
together,
so
Jane,
myself
and
Martin,
not
with
us
this
morning
that
chief
exec
of
the
Scottish
fair
trade
forum
worked
very
closely
together.
We
meet
probably
every
couple
of
months
or
so
formally
and
across
network
for
a
meeting
that
we
use
those
opportunities
to
share
everything
that
we're
doing
strategically
going
forwards.
D
We
regularly
map
out
and
thematically
what
we're
doing
and
we
identify
through
that
mapping
process.
The
synergies,
I
would
say
synergies
rather
than
overlaps
and
in
those
areas,
particularly,
we
have
strong
commitments
to
working
together
in
that
space.
I
think
all
of
the
the
networks
here
would
would
very
much
say
we
are
stronger
when
we
work
together
and
that
it
is
in
no
one's
interest
to
duplicate
what
each
other
is
doing.
D
Each
other
is
doing
so
out,
so
there's
very
strong
systems
there,
but
I
would
also
say
that
each
of
us
exists
independently
to
represent
our
own
constituencies,
our
own
membership.
So
one
of
the
things
that
we
do
is
map
our
own
membership
and
actually
the
proportion
of
overlap
is
comparatively
very
small
compared
to
the
whole
overall
and
that's
why
you
have
different
networks.
But
we
do
work
very
well
together
and
happy
to
give
I
think
in
our
last
core
funding
application
to
the
Scottish.
F
J
H
Well,
I
think
it
extends
reach.
It
adds
value
if
they're
all
needed.
My
dose
is
there
to
promote
and
support
international
development.
So
that's
it's
distinct
mission.
That's
what
it's
there
for
international
development
across
the
piece.
So
we
have
members
who
are
working
in
Central,
Asia
or
the
Philippines,
and
we
will
do
everything
we
can
to
support
them.
H
The
work
that
we
do
on
things
like
supporting
the
Scottish
Government
small
Grants
Scheme,
it's
for
organizations
who
may
be
working
in
Minari
or
who,
who
may
not
they
may
be
working
in
other
countries,
but
because
we
collaborate
with
the
Scotland
Malawi
Partnership.
We
can
extend
the
reach
into
their
networks
and
make
sure
that
more
people
get
the
chance
to
participate
in
small
guns,
training
and
support
which
we,
my
dog,
might
be
doing
as
more
of
our
core
business,
because
we
are
there
to
improve
effectiveness.
H
So
if
it
works
well,
I
think
it
adds
rather
than
detracts
value
and
we're
all
too
busy,
and
our
members
would
not
anyway
allow
us
to
get
away
with
seeing
duplication
of
effort.
Doesn't
it
doesn't
happen?
It's
not
it's
not
to
us
something
that
we
struggle
with,
but
that
joint
working,
which
is
a
strong
part
of
our
ongoing
existence,
make
sure
that
it
does
work
well.
I
We
fear
so
the
global
development
Academy
as
being
very
fortunate
to
be
part
of
these
networks
and
adding
in
in
terms
of
drawing
together
best
practices
in
international
development,
in
project
management
and
in
assessment
of
outcomes
and
impact.
But
we
also
feel
that
we
can
play
a
useful
role
and
have
those
a
useful
role
in
terms
of
generating
new
thinking
through
our
research
on
international
development
that
we
do
in
partnership
with
organisations
in
Scotland
and
also
in
across
Africa
and
Asia.
J
It
has
been
kind
of
top-level
commitment
to
the
SDGs
I
think
going
forward
over
this
period
and
hopefully
with
the
support
of
the
committee
that
that
really
needs
to
be
and
brought
down
into
into
a
concrete
action
and
articulated
more
clearly
the
the
actions
that
going
to
be
taken
under
that
and
the
networks
are
absolutely
crucial
to
enabling
that
to
happen.
I
believe.
E
A
E
E
And
how
do
you
see
the
your
organization
actually
trying
to
increase
the
awareness
of
what
you're
trying
to
do
and
to
try
to
get
more
people
to
fill
in
the
stand?
The
actions
are
undertaking,
but
also
to
help
try
to
combat
that
a
lot
situation
of
some
aspects
to
the
media
and
not
wanting
to
feel
like
promote
the
positives
of
what
of
the
actions
that
you're
undertaking
I'll
be.
D
Brief
because
I
know
time
is
short,
firstly
and
you
obviously
right
there's
a
lot
of
links
of
your
constituency
in
every
single
constituency
in
Scotland.
On
the
Rwanda
point,
we
work
very
closely
with
the
networks
for
Rwanda
and
Zambia
as
well.
In
fact,
this
evening,
I'll
be
chairing
a
meeting
where
we
specifically
supporting
the
capacity-building
of
those
of
those
networks
as
well
and
I.
Think
a
good
example
of
networks
working
well
in
the
sector.
On
your
point
on
media
on
how
do
we
combat
the
negative
narrative
in
I
emphasize
some
sections
of
the
media?
D
For
me,
three
points
I'd
like
to
raise,
firstly,
engaging
in
celebrating
community
involvement,
the
great
thing
about
Scotland's
international
development
effort-
and
this
is
no
criticism
of
government,
but
it
is
driven
by
civic
society.
It
is
hundreds
of
churches
and
hundreds
of
schools,
of
hospitals,
of
universities,
of
local
authorities
coming
together
with
one
voice
and
saying
we
can
achieve
more
through
dignified
partnerships
than
we
can
one
way
T,
it's
very
hard
for
any
tabloid
newspaper
to
be
critical
of
what
such
a
large
section
that
Scottish,
Civic
Society
is
doing.
D
The
narrative
they
want
to
paint
is
one
of
top-down
of
wastage,
of
corruption
of
dependencies,
and
that
is
not
what
we
see
in
the
relationship
between
Scotland
and
Malawi
and
other
countries
as
well.
So
it's
celebrating
and
recognizing
the
breadth
of
civic
engagement,
I
think
transparency
is
absolutely
key
key
as
well,
making
sure
the
Scottish
government
continues
to
be
absolutely
transparent,
sharing
all
information
about
all
projects,
it
funds,
but
also
to
do
more
to
celebrate
the
impact
case.
D
Studies
that
we're
seeing
Edinburgh
University
estimates
that
4
million
Malawians
benefit
each
year
from
those
civic
links
with
Malawi,
but
so
too
they
find
a
three
hundred
thousand
Scots.
How
do
we
get
that
narrative
out
there
to
show
the
benefit
at
both
sides
and
celebrate
the
civic
involvement?
Thank
you.
L
More
and
more,
we
see
students
rejecting
the
notion
of
tokenistic
that
beer
style
volunteering
and
instead
wanting
to
know
how
they
could
best
contribute
to
Scotland's
international
development
efforts.
Do
they
present
a
significant
and
as
largely
untapped
source.
Additionally,
many
older
people
find
that
they
have
time
to
volunteer
after
retirement.
They
have
often
built
up
a
wealth
of
knowledge
over
their
careers
and
their
experience
should
be
recognized
as
a
resources,
but
regardless
of
their
age,
gender
or
race.
We
would
welcome
efforts
from
the
Scottish
government
to
highlight
the
unsung
heroes
and
heroines
of
our
sector.
L
To
do
this,
it's
important
to
support
a
wider
demographic.
Civil
society
represents
a
significant
section
of
Scotland's
international
development
offerings
from
churches
and
mosques,
schools
and
hospitals.
Much
of
the
strain
of
the
development
sector
in
Scotland
exists
outside
rooms
like
this
one
as
the
strength
this
harness
will
be.
Will
we
will
have
a
united
voice
to
push
back
against
this
tabloid
rhetoric
that
says
development
money
as
wasting
money?
So,
most
importantly,
our
country
will
be
able
to
take
pride
in
the
fact
that
we
demonstrate
our
strengths
not
through
aggression,
but
through
our
compassion.
F
Hear
two
relatively
brief
questions
and
Hina
touched
on
it.
Just
in
that
last
comment
or
the
first
one,
and
we
sometimes
get
comments
that
even
in
rooms
like
us
when
we
are
having
a
discussion
of
our
international
development
in
Scotland's
links
with
the
rest
of
the
world,
there
is
the
usual
suspects
and
actually
covered
it
in
your
opening
statement,
as
well
and
in
your
retina
evidence.
First
aid
Africa
thanks
my
committee
for
inviting
you
and
we
were
very
happy
to
do
that,
but
we
as
a
committee.
F
Obviously
when
we
do
this
every
soft
and
we
have
a
very
broad
dream
at
how
do
we
expand
this
conversation
beyond
the
usual
suspects
beyond
the
big
players,
because
we
spent
a
substantial
part
of
the
first
bit
this
morning
praising
the
small
Grants
Scheme
and
success
over?
How
do
we
involve
the
people
getting
those
small
grants
more
in
this
level
of
the
conversation,
not
just
the
usual
suspects.
H
I
think
new
initiatives
that's
come
possibly
out
of
the
cross-party
group
and
Louis
has
been
wrote
to
the
minister
to
dr.
Allen
recently
to
suggest
setting
up
a
series
of
I
think
quarterly
roundtable
meetings
where
we
could
bring
more
people
from
the
international
development
sector
together
again,
not
only
the
international
development
organizations,
maybe
also
the
university's
businesses
and
all
sorts.
H
But
that
sounds
to
me
like
exactly
the
kind
of
forum
where
not
just
the
larger,
but
also
the
smaller
or
non-traditional
or
volunteer-led
organizations
can
come
to
the
table
and
can
come
and
share
ways
a
ministerial-level
and
with
the
committee's
what
their
work
is
and
so
have
a
better
opportunity
to
describe
who
they
are
and
the
place
that
they
play
both
here
in
Scotland
and
in
global
citizenship.
So
that's
not
the
be-all
and
end-all,
but
it's
an
extremely
good
way
to
start.
H
We
admired
us
have
also
been
trying
to
work
up
a
proposal
whereby
we
could
find
a
way
of
funding
a
piece
of
work
which
was
media
communications
work,
but
on
the
front
foot
to
be
proactive
rather
than
reactive
in
cases.
Yet
another
pieces
strident
attack
from
the
right-wing
media
whereby
we
could
offer
our
members,
particularly
the
smaller
ones,
a
way
of
going
out
and
telling
their
perhaps
local
media,
perhaps
the
weekly
free
sheet
about
successes
that
they
had
in
raising
money
or
delivering
programs
overseas
so
that
you
could
have
a
kind
of
an
ongoing
drip.
H
J
It's
back
to
the
point
that
public
understanding
and
engagement
should
be
an
integral
part
of
international
development
strategy,
and
you
know
I
think
there
are
nods
to
it
that
that
it
really
needs
that.
That
needs
to
be-
and
you
know
formally
articulated
better
because
it
really
goes
hunt
in
order
to
continue
and
build
the
support
for
international
development.
It
needs
to
be
understood.
Better
people
need
to
be
more
aware
of
and
the
projects
and
initiatives
that
Scotland
are
involved
in
and
they
won't.
J
You
know
well
it's
with
the
SE
G
that
offers
such
an
important
opportunity
to
do
that
and
in
the
new
strategy,
which
I
think
you
know
we'll
welcome.
Two
of
the
priorities
are
enhancer
global
citizenship
by
inspiring
communities
and
young
people
to
realize
their
role
as
global
citizens
and
engage
the
people
of
Scotland
to
build
on
and
Scotland
sisters
and
outward-facing
country.
These
are
two
priorities,
and
this
is
the
time
to
move
beyond
that
and
and
actually
lay
out
how
that
that's
going
to
be
done
and
in
the
European
Union.
J
There
are
very
strong
statements
about
the
development
about
development,
education
and
awareness
raising
and
in
many
European
countries.
It's
you
know
it's
a
just
in
terms
of
funding
as
well.
It's
a
it's.
A
designated
part
of
the
the
funding
program.
I
think
it's!
It's
absolutely
crucial
that
we
that
we
use
this
period,
the
context
of
the
sustainable
development
goals,
to
ensure
that
public
engagement
and
understanding
is
developed
and,
as
I
said
at
the
beginning,
global
citizenship.
J
Education
is
a
means
of
ensuring
this
is
done
not
as
just
informing
people
of
information
but
engaging
and
people
with
that
process,
because
they
are
I
mean
we're
all
aware
of
the
the
changes
that
have
happened
over
the
you
know
the
the
past
few
years
that
the
are
difficult
to
explain
they
they
need
concentrated
engagement,
they
can't
be
you
know
the
tabloid
press
will
give
give
one
line
it's.
It
requires
a
process
of
Education
to
develop
understanding
or
for
International
Development
to
us
all
and
I.
J
Think
one
of
the
reports
often
uses
that
the
this
understanding
and
that
this
is
not
about
charity,
and
so
the
court
has
really
that,
and
there
are
a
chains
of
cause
and
effect
that
prompt
obligations
of
justice.
You
know
not
pity
and
charity,
and
you
know
the
this
is
the
opportunity
that
we
have
in
the
scale
of
Scotland
and
with
the
players
that
in
place
to
really
build
on
that
under
the
framework
of
the
sustainable
development
goals
and
through
policy
coherence
for
development,
Donovan.
A
F
So
it's
wondering
if
you
were
able
to
outline
what
the
barriers
are
for
engaging
more
schools
are
other
schools,
in
particular
socioeconomic
backgrounds
in
general,
that
are
the
ones
that
do
find
it
harder
to
engage.
Are
there
patterns
there?
What
are
the
barriers
that
are
really
expanding
this
so
that
every
young
person
Scotland
is
not
just
getting
Google
citizenship
education
through
the
correct
film,
but
has
the
potential
for
direct
experience
through
through
Project
Work
I.
J
J
J
Factors
in
the
schools
that
engaged
I
don't
think
that
is
a
case
because,
and
we
one
of
the
key
things
about
global
citizenship.
Education
is
that
it
really
reinforces
people
engagement
and
so
that
actually
it
can
have
the
most
M
kind
of
traction
if
you
like,
where
there
may
be
disengaged
pupils
who
don't
feel
that
that
they're
getting
what
they
want
to
education,
so
it
can
really
pull
in
a
cross
across
the
board.
J
I
think
partner
would
encourage
all
members
of
the
committee
to
do
is
to
and
go
and
visit
their
local
development
education
center,
and
so,
as
I
said,
those
six
of
these
across
Scotland,
and
they
cover
all
local
authorities
and
it's
really
the
best
way
of
understanding
what
global
citizenship
education
is
I.
Think
written
there
in
the
written
evidence
this
table,
they
ops
on
table
of
what
global
citizenship
education
covers,
and
you
can
see
it's
a
wide
range
of
issues.
J
So
really
the
best
way
to
understand
what
it
means
is
to
go
to
the
development
education
centers,
and
they
will
enable
you
to
see.
Fourth,
it
means
in
schools.
That's
absolutely
crucial
that
this
is
as
supported
and
sustained
and
not
lost
as
a
commitment
and
I
highlighted
our
connections
with
Europe
and
and
the
work
that
we've
done
there
should
be
recognized
at
Scotland,
really
has
huge
expertise
that
is
recognized
and
respected
across
Europe
in
this
field
and
is
really
something
to
her
all
that
Emma
trees
engage
with
I'd.
L
I
have
been
lucky
to
have
rule
models.
First
in
Africa
the
chair
of
the
board,
when
I
first
volunteered
with
the
famous
leader,
Tyler
group,
equally
I
could
point
to
Hamza
Yusuf
to
counter
a
comment
that
was
kind
of
common
argument.
Within
my
community,
the
international
development
was
white
people's
work.
On
top
of
this,
the
child
is
taken
simple,
but
effective
steps
like
giving
guidance
to
him
with
some
first
aid
instructors
on
volunteering.
L
During
holy
month
of
Ramadan
last
year,
rusted
Africa
volunteers
represented
half
of
all
Scottish
universities
and
came
from
across
the
country
from
sterling
to
Shetland
among
them
were
Sikhs,
Christians,
Buddhists,
Muslims
atheists
etc.
Yet
across
the
sector,
only
2%
of
formal
volunteers
are
non-white.
This
is
clearly
there's
clearly
more.
L
The
sector
can
do
to
remove
those
structural
boundaries
that
exist
and
participation
from
non
waistcoats
money
donated
to
charity
by
British
Muslims
during
Ramadan
was
ten
times
the
Scottish
Government's,
usually
international
development
budget
funds
into
global
sales
by
diaspora
communities,
dwarfed
all
government
spending
on
international
development.
We
suggest
it
would
be
important
for
us
to
acknowledge
his
contribution
as
international
as
the
international
development
strategy
as
implemented.
Scotland
welcomes
the
world
and
it's
something
that
we
should
be
so
proud
of.
There's
more
that
we
can
do
to
engage
the
the
aspirant
vme
groups.
C
A
couple
of
statements
that
were
made
earlier
I
mean
one
of
the
points
was
going
to
touch
on
was
raised
by
Stuart,
McMillen
and
relation
to
the
and
to
the
media
and
what
you
think
could
be
done
there.
I
am,
but
it's
just
you
talked
about
a
it
was
dr.
Breslin
particular
about
the
strong
statements
from
the
EU
in
terms
of
the
sustainable
development
goals.
Now
is
that
something
that
you
think
needs
to
be
given
almost
a
higher
priority?
C
Either
more
focus
heat
as
well
and
I
also
was
looking
to
tease
out
some
of
the
the
links
that
each
of
you
have
across
the
EU
as
well.
We've
talked
a
bit
about
the
legs
and
the
potential
impact
and
I'm
I.
Think
in
initial.
In
your
initial
comments,
and
then
you
talked
about
the,
how
that's
put
in
a
squeeze
on
individuals
and
their
vulnerability
to
be
able
to
in
personally
Denis,
but
just
if
there's
a
wider
funding
implications
for
you
as
part
of
that
as
well.
J
Just
on
a
very
specific
point,
around
funding,
so
in
evidence
we
there's
a
funding
stream,
called
development,
education
and
awareness,
raising
the
deer,
deer
funding
and
and
in
the
previous
funding
round
ideas
and
its
members
secured
funding
of
around
six
hundred
thousand
pounds
and
the
Scottish
Government
a
committed,
cruel
financing
of
around
two
hundred
thousand
pounds
to
that
so
and
we've
had
just
ideas
and
two
of
its
members
have
just
been
part
of
bids
that
have
been
accepted
for
funding
and
we're
not
that
stage
between.
You
know
the
the
signing
off
on
it.
J
But
so
there
is
an
issue
we
will
be
looking
for:
cool
financing
for
those
projects,
but
it's
and
smaller
than
the
previous
percentage
and
so
I
suppose.
There's
there's
that
issue,
but
there's
a
wider
issue
that
that,
as
certainly
as
I
mentioned,
ideas
doesn't
have
Court
for
funding.
But
we
had
been
developing
our
engagement
with
this
fund
and
actually
the
last
time
we
spoke
to
the
committee
in
the
previous
Parliament
and
they
there
was
a
strategic
engagement
whereby
a
government,
if
focused
on
these
streams,
can
actually
build
the
the
money
that
that
comes
through
them.
J
So
obviously,
that's
a
serious
implication
for
us
and
if
that
is
lost,
also
I
think
I
know
you.
The
committee
is
working
on
this
this
anyway,
that
the
continuing
engagement
and
prospects
it
or
with
with
the
EU,
is
obviously
something
that's
really
important
across
international
development.
So,
yes,
that's!
That's
probably
you
know
that
sort
of
in
a
specific
point
in
relation
to
Europe
that
again,
as
I
mentioned
before
that
we
have
the
set
of
expertise
that
is
in
global
citizenship,
education
that
is
important
in
Europe
and
I've,
highlighted
Oh
global
education
intergovernmental
network.
J
H
If
it
was
possible
to
act
proactively
to
work
on
building
relationships
with
the
media,
so
that
international
development
is
understood
and
warmly
supported
in
Scotland
and
what
Scotland's
civil
society
organizations
do,
then
that
affects
the
operating
environment
within
which
the
smallest
charity
can
go
out
and
fundraise.
In
the
you
know,
the
car
boot
sale
on
a
Sunday.
You
need
ordinary
people
to
feel
receptive
towards
international
development
as
part
of
creating
the
atmosphere
within
which
private
individual
donations
can
be
can
be
made.
H
So
there's
a
link
between
engagement,
supporting
engagement
and
creating
the
atmosphere
for
private
charitable,
giving
quickly
to
fairly
quickly
on
me
on
Europe
and
brexit.
Some
of
the
larger
organizations
will
be
directly
affected
if
they
could
no
longer
bid
for
when
and
implement
European
funded
programs.
So
we
watch
with
great
interest,
what's
going
to
happen
to
say
the
European
Development
Fund
and
the
money
I
think
it's
1.2
million
a
years.
It
goes
1.2
billion
a
years.
It
goes
from
the
UK
into
the
European
Development
Fund.
H
What's
going
to
happen
to
that
money
after
brexit,
but
on
a
more
philosophical
point,
even
without
the
hard
financial
loss
that
comes
out
of
brexit,
it's
back
to
global
citizenship
and
how
we
feel
about
the
people
of
different
nationalities
who
live
amongst
us.
So
therefore
for
us
in
the
international
development
community
to
live
with
the
threat
of
ICI
Nationals
losing
their
citizenship
in
this
country,
it's
abhorrent
to
to
most
of
us
in
our
sector.
So
there's
that
philosophical,
a
fear
or
threats
or
damage
that
goes
beyond
the
hard
financial
threat.
K
K
D
Your
question
was
the
sustainable
development
goals
if
I
may
on
that
now,
civic
society,
academia,
business
have
very
key
roles
and
I'm
very
happy
to
talk
through
that,
if
that's
useful,
but
if
I
may
to
start
with
the
government
and
Parliament's
role,
absolutely
delighted
that
the
sustainable
development
goals
were
visible
both
in
the
consultation
behind
this
policy
and
in
the
policy
itself.
Indeed,
on
its
on
its
front
cover
and
I
think
the
headline
the
tone,
the
language
is
all
very
encouraging,
but
there
is
a
need
for
more
detail.
D
There's
a
need
for
more
detail
on
on
the
exact
structures
of
how
Scotland
will
deliver
on
the
17
very
far-reaching
and
incredibly
ambitious
goals.
Today,
the
the
main
focus
has
been
about
mapping
across
from
the
national
performance
framework.
How
will
those
had
to
achieve
the
SDGs?
Now?
That's
entirely
understandable.
D
In
many
ways
you
don't
want
to
reinvent
a
completely
new
delivery
infrastructure,
but
there
is
a
risk
that
if,
if
that
is
the
end
rather
than
the
beginning,
it
becomes
more
about
packaging
and
present
rather
than
additionality
and
and
impact,
so
very
much
encourage
the
Scottish
government
to
continue
its
genuinely
world-leading
commitment
to
the
sustainable
development
goals
with
two
years
into
a
15
year.
Commitment,
that's
not
the
beginning
anymore
and
there's
a
real
need
for
clear
cross,
departmental
structures.
Ideally
at
a
cabinet
level.
D
D
If
every
time
an
MSP
in
the
chamber
stood
up
to
give
a
speech
on
a
specific
subject,
they
were
able
to
preface
it
by
saying
in
in
keeping
with
the
Scottish
government
in
the
Scotland's
commitment
to
SDG,
whatever
it
is,
doesn't
the
Scottish
Government
feel
dot,
but
also
for
this
Parliament
to
think
about
what
structures
it
needs
to
be
able
to
deliver
and
hold
the
government
accountable
to
the
delivery
of
the
SDGs?
And
indeed,
what
role
does
this
committee
have
on
the
SDG?
M
Because
I
just
very,
very
quickly
add
a
further
impacts
on
brexit,
but
clearly
the
academic
sector.
The
university
sector
is,
has
considerable
amounts
of
money
from
from
Europe,
but
there's
also
an
impact
in
terms
of
the
highest
quality
staff
not
coming
to
our
universities.
We've
seen
people
in
the
last
year
or
so
turning
down
job
offers
people
who
were
going
to
be
leading
on
EU
grants
being
politely
asked
by
their
European
counterparts
to
step
down
so
that
they
can.
They
can
lead
it.
M
It's
already,
it's
already
having
impacts
on
our
role
in
in
world
leading
research
in
that
respect.
So
it's
not
just
the
answer.
It's
not
just
the
anticipation
of
what
might
happen
it's
impacting
already,
and
we
have.
We
have
staff
members
from
from
Europe
who
who've
lost
their
security
about
the
future.
So
it's
it's
offering
many
challenges.
B
I
just
want
to
come
back
briefly
on
the
development,
education
question
and
plan.
You
isis
talked
about
drugs,
education,
centers
and
about
the
role
that
they
can
play.
I
visited
the
Montgomery
development
education
center
in
Aberdeen
last
week
and
you're.
The
answer
align
socio-economic
position
was
was
reflected
there.
B
J
So
that
project
worked
with,
and
you
know,
a
fairly
limited
group
of
secondary
teachers
and
it
was
in
conjunction
with
Lithuania
and
and
we
worked
with
the
teachers
across
both
countries
to
really
develop
their
critical
engagement
with
em
with
global
citizenship,
education,
and
we
also
worked
with
the
local
authorities.
So
so
the
the
the
teachers
were
kind
of
ambassadors
engaged
with
the
local
authorities.
J
Local
authority
staff
were
involved
with
the
training
as
well,
and
this
is
really
seen
as
a
really
strong
model
for
building
that
systemic
change,
so
that
secondary
schools
can
engage
with
these
issues
and
just
as
the
other
thing
we've
we've
looked
at
is
sometimes
the
the
teachers
need.
The
engagement
of
the
young
people
too,
and
really
in
some
ways
justify
their
engagement
with
this
area.
Also,
it
is
fully
embedded
in
the
teaching
standards
and
it
is
really
embedded
through
the
curriculum
and
it
is
under
learning
for
sustainability
and
entitlement
for
all
Scottish
people.
J
So,
although
those
are
all
there
and
teachers,
as
we
know,
are
under
a
lot
of
pressure
so
and
but
they
would
invent
onside
in,
we
have
a
few
coming
up
that
work
directly
with
young
people
as
kind
of
advocates
around
the
sustainable
development
goals,
and
so
that's
a
kind
of
another
strand
of
engagement,
so
it's
definitely
possible
in
secondly,
schools.
It's
always
been
more
challenging,
I
suppose.
J
In
relation
to
the
how
to
sustain
this,
which
was
Ross's
point,
they
should
probably
see
we
have
had
funding
streams
through
differed
historically,
but,
as
you
probably
aware,
and
everything
in
bifidus
really
under
review
at
the
moment,
so
it's
not
clear
what's
happening
there
as
I
said
we're
losing
the
and
potential
loss
of
the
the
EU
funding
streams.
So
this
will
be
potentially
initiative
to
come
back
to
the
committee
with
how
this
work
is
is
sustained.
If.
I
I
could
also
just
come
in
room
that
quickly.
We
have
a
number
of
undergraduate
courses,
for
example
Africa
in
the
contemporary
world,
that
is
available
for
first
and
second
year,
undergraduates
and
one
on
international
development
as
well,
and
we
really
noticed
that
undergraduates
from
across
the
university,
take
these
courses
and
are
really
keen
to
take
it.
I
But
it
is
the
comment
that
comes
up
from
the
students
themselves
that
this
is
their
often
the
first
opportunity
they've
had
to
engage
in
these
issues
and
particularly
on
the
Africa
in
the
contemporary
world
course,
where
a
lot
of
students
don't
have
access
to
the
gun,
detail,
country
level,
knowledge
the
to
get
an
understanding
of
the
variation
across
the
content
across
the
continent
and
great
comments
from
young
people
from
the
African
country.
Diasporas
who
were
saying
is
the
first
time
they've
had
courses
which
have
been
that
talked
to
their
experiences
of
their
parents,
etc.
D
And
last
night
was
an
excellent
event
with
Scott
deck
and
ideas
which
brought
together
nursery
primary
and
secondary
teachers.
To
look
at
what
support
do
they
need
to
be
able
to
advance
this
agenda,
particularly
the
sustainable
development
group
goals
and
I
was
facilitating
a
workshop
there
and
came
up
with
quite
a
number
of
really
good
bits
of
suggestions
and
evidence
from
those
teachers
rather
than
goes
through
it
now.