►
From YouTube: Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Relations Committee- Scottish Parliament: 18th May 2017
Description
1. Decision on taking business in private: The Committee will decide whether to take item 3 in private.
2. Scottish tourism: The Committee will take evidence in a roundtable format from—
Eva McDiarmid, Chief Executive, Association of Scottish Visitor Attractions;
Willie MacLeod, Executive Director, British Hospitality Association;
Tom Campbell, Managing Director, North Coast 500;
Caroline Warburton, Tourism Scotland 2020 National Strategy Delivery Coordinator, Scottish Tourism Alliance;
Riddell Graham, Director of Partnerships, VisitScotland;
David Weston, Chairman, Scottish Bed and Breakfast Association;
David Smythe, Chairman, Association of Scottish Self Caterers.
3. Scottish tourism: The Committee will consider the evidence earlier in the meeting.
Published by the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body.
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A
Good
morning
and
welcome
to
the
13th
meeting
of
the
culture,
tourism,
Europe
and
External
Relations
Committee
in
2017,
I'd
like
to
remain
members
and
the
public
to
turn
off
mobile
phones
and
any
members
using
electronic
devices
to
access
committee
papers
during
the
meeting
should
ensure
that
they're
switched
to
silent.
Apologies
have
been
received
from
Jackson
Carla
and
Stuart
McMillen
and
I
welcome
Kate
formed
a
Stuart
substitute
and
Margaret
Mitchell
as
Jackson
substitute
and
I'd
like
to
invite
them
members
say
you're
substituting
to
declare
any
relevant
interests.
The.
A
First,
item
of
business
today
is
a
decision
on
taking
agenda
item
three
in
private.
Our
members
contained
our
second
item
of
business.
Today
is
our
own
table
evidence
session
to
obtain
an
overview
of
the
current
state
of
the
scottish
judaism
sector.
I'd
like
to
welcome
the
witnesses
who
come
along
today
and
I'd
like
to
invite
them
to
introduce
themselves
and
members
as
well
as
we
go
down
the
table
so
I'll
start
and
we
can
move
to
the
to
the
right.
I'm
joel
mchale
plane,
a
committee
convener
and
the
MSP
for
so
scotland,
where.
J
A
Thank
you
very
much
and,
as
I
said,
this
is
the
safe
intended
as
an
overview
of
the
sector
to
inform
the
committee's
a
scrutiny
work
going
forward
in
many
ways.
It
would
seem
to
be
a
good
time
for
Scottish
to
resume
statistics
out
this
morning
sure
that
the
number
of
overseas
visitors
last
year
grew
by
6%.
Of
course,
there's
a
great
deal
of
ambition
for
the
sector.
Those
are
2000
2020
strategy,
with
a
very
ambitious
aim
of
growing
revenue
from
the
industry
by
a
billion
by
2020.
A
That's
part
of
the
Scottish
Government's
strategy,
so
I
suppose
my
opening
question
would
be
in
the
light
of
them
that
continuing
success
for
also
the
ambition
for
further
success
here
is
the
grid
of
the
industry
at
the
moment.
And
what
do
you
see
is
the
main
challenges
and
opportunities
who
would
like
to
start
from.
I
Visit
Scotland's
perspective,
we
are
obviously
delighted
to
you.
The
figures
that
were
just
announced
this
morning,
particularly
in
terms
of
the
over
Caesars,
that
increase
under
spend.
That
goes
with
a
nine
percent
increase
in
investor,
spend
and
we've
seen
over
the
past
several
years.
A
significant
increase
in
direct
flights
coming
into
Scotland,
which
is
hugely
improved.
A
international
competitiveness
and
I
think
the
industry
Brian
large,
is
in
really
good
health.
I
We've
got
some
forward
figures
for
the
year
ahead,
which
suggests
that
bookings
are
looking
very
strong
based
on
a
good
year
last
year,
and
some
of
the
the
flight
details
come
out
from
5e
last
week,
showing
significant
increase
in
forward
bookings
with
with
them
as
well,
particularly
to
the
Highlands
and
Islands
airports.
So,
in
general
terms,
in
terms
of
the
activity
and
visitor
throughput
really
positive,
we
published
a
viscous
Aubrey
just
a
couple
of
weeks
ago
at
Expo
event,
and
the
figures
here
were
very
encouraging.
I
Indeed,
these
are
people
who
had
been
in
Scotland
and
experienced
it
and
we're
talking
very
positively
about
that
experience
right
across
the
piece,
both
in
terms
of
geography
and
the
experience
they've
had
so
from
a
visit.
Scotland
perspective
and
marketing
is
going
very
well.
We
launched
God's
Spirit
last
year
to
great
acclaim
and
support
from
the
industry,
and
that
has
been
hugely
successful
and
much
more
digital
marketing
than
we
ever
did
before,
which
enables
us
to
measure
the
impact
we're
having
much
more
effectively
than
before
as
well.
I
So,
in
general
terms,
the
figures
are
encouraging
we're
not
completely,
but
we
also
recognize
that
there
are
significant
challenges
facing
the
industry
and
I
suspect.
My
colleagues
during
the
table
will
be
able
to
articulate
more
clearly
than
I
can
and
a
particular
challenge
is
facing
there.
Parts
of
the
industry
thank.
A
J
Yes,
Carolyn,
if
I
can
just
respond
to
both
from
schools,
tourism
Alliance
perspective,
but
also
in
our
role
of
coordinators,
of
the
national
tourism
strategy,
which
is
my
role
specifically.
So
the
strategy
was
launched
in
2012
up
to
2020
and
we
did
a
midterm
review
last
year
and
the
levels
of
collaboration
within
what
is
quite
a
broad
and
disparate
sector.
I
think
are
quite
extraordinary
and
we've
seen
a
massive
step
change
over
the
last
few
years.
J
Last
week,
two
weeks
ago,
really
showed
that
the
quality
is
we
are
seeing
that
quality
to
rising
in
terms
of
some
of
the
key
issues.
Riddle
is
correct.
There
is
real
optimism
looking
forwards,
and
last
year
seemed
to
have
been
a
successful
year.
However,
there
is
growing
concern
I,
think
amongst
the
industry
about
the
rising
costs
level.
J
Those
visitor
spend
maybe
increasing
wearing
at
the
FTA,
we're
hearing
more
and
more
from
businesses
that
they
feel
that
their
profits
or
their
margins
are
being
squeezed
by
both
rising
regulation,
but
also
by
rising
costs
and
I'm
sure.
My
colleagues
around
the
table
will
have
more
examples
on
that.
So
it
is
a
good
news
story.
Tourism
is
in
a
strong
and
is
enroute
health.
However,
we
must
we
can't
be
complacent,
as
it
all
says,
we
need
to
be
mindful
of
the
challenges
which
may
be
coming
around
the
corner
right.
J
Been
a
number
of
added
increases
through
regulation
and
legislation
recently,
so
obviously
charges
or
increasing
costs
through
things
like
a
national
living
wage
or
to
enrollment
apprenticeship
levy.
We
have
already
have
a
very
high
VAP
level
in
Scotland.
Apd,
again
makes
Scotland
a
an
expensive
destination,
but
on
top
of
that,
we
are
with
the
exchange
rate
that
we
have
at
the
moment.
Although
it's
become
cheaper
for
visitors
from
overseas
to
visit
Scotland,
it's
also
meant
that
a
number
of
produce
that
the
industry
will
be
buying
is
also
going
up
in
costs.
J
So
there
are
there's
not
one
issue
that
would
solve
it.
It's
that
it's
a
basket
of
issues
that
we
we
need
to
look
at
in
the
round
and
the
STA
we're
currently
undertaking
a
piece
of
work
investigating
that
around
what
are
these?
Are
we
seeing
a
rising
cost
within
the
businesses
across
the
sector,
or
is
it
just
anecdotal
and
I?
Think
I
think
we
suspect
that
there
will
be
significant
costs,
rising
costs
for
businesses
over
the
last
five
years,
but
we'll
have
more
information
in
October,
Thank,
You,
Caroline,
David,.
A
G
I
was
just
going
to
echo
what
Caroline
and
Rudolf
said
and
agree
with
those
and
just
add
to
the
list
of
cost
items
that
the
business
rates
issue,
which
of
course,
has
been
looked
at
and
in
detail,
but
that's
another
issue
that
our
members
have
found,
that
additional
costs
so
and
cost
inflation
will
be
rising
generally
in
general.
So
those
are
worried
looking
forward
at
the
costs.
G
Creeping
up,
I'd
also
mention
as
a
challenge.
It's
not
a
Costas
to,
but
as
a
challenges
to
the
recent
very
huge
rise
in
growth
of
peer-to-peer
web
sites
like
Airbnb,
which
accommodation
on
which
is
is
effectively
unregulated
and
undercuts
businesses
that
are
paying
taxes
and
complying
with
regulations
and
find
themselves
undercut
by
similar
businesses
that
have
been
allowed
to
trade
without
complying
with
those
regulations.
So
that's
we
feel
an
issue
unfairness
and
we're
level
playing
field
errs
is
required.
G
K
A
K
Yes,
just
comes
back
to
you,
your
first
question
about
the
numbers,
yeah
I,
think
the
international
figures
present
a
real
opportunity.
You
know
for
for
us
North,
Coast
500.
We
carries
a
survey
over
some
consumers,
the
2,000
of
them,
90
percent,
came
from
the
UK.
50%
came
from
Scotland,
so
there
is
a
huge
opportunity
in
that
international
market.
That
I
think
is
is
untapped.
K
The
challenges
I
have
likened
it
to
you
know
the
Golden
Goose
is
laying
the
golden
eggs
and
we
have
to
be
careful
of
it.
The
sustainability
you
know
and
looking
at
infrastructure
and
key
infrastructure
not
just
a
bit
roads
but
our
own
training
and
for
hospitality
and
for
the
tourism
sector
infrastructure
around
you
know
visitors
and
places
to
stop
places
to
eat.
You
know
viewing
point
toilets
harbours
all
of
these
things.
K
E
Yes,
just
just
to
see:
I'm
I
represent
this
off
catering
industry
visit
Scotland
figures,
23
percent
of
all
visitors
to
Scotland,
stay
in
self
catering
properties,
so
we're
a
good
chunk
of
the
market
traditionally
doing
very
well.
We've
just
done
a
survey
volume
of
value
of
our
sector
and
we're
worth
well.
Seven
hundred
twenty
three
million
pounds
spend
to
Scottish
economy,
3.4
million.
This
is
a
visitor
bed
nights
equivalent
to
fifteen
thousand
jobs
across
Scotland.
E
So
it's
a
it's
a
it's
a
major
sector
as
far
as
the
sort
of
big
tourism
landscape
goes
and
Scottish
government
I
think
we're
very
grateful,
for
instance
that
Scotland's
budgets
been
maintained.
This
has
gotten,
do
the
do
the
big
marketing
for
Scotland
and
I
think
it's
important
for
budgets
maintains
and
also
the
theme
gears
continuing,
and
that's
that's
good
news,
because
that
kind
of
focuses
everybody's
marketing
in
in
the
one
place
and
points
everyone
in
the
right
direction.
So
we
welcome
that
I.
E
Remember
survey
that
we've
done
recently.
Most
most
members
are
buoyant
at
the
moment
and
amber
and
ambitious
for
this
year
coming
I
think
it's
figures
are
looking
reasonably
good,
but
we
do
have
a
few
concerns
which
we've
touched
on
air
B&B
and
the
sharing
economy
were
really
worried
about
regulations
coming
in
which
will
impact
on
people
who
are
not
in
the
sharing
economy,
particularly
it's
a
gray
area.
We
talked
about
air
B&B.
We
have
some
traditional
businesses
that
will
be
using
the
air.
E
B&Amp;B
is
one
of
their
routes
to
market,
so
they'll
be
EDD
will
be
filling
some
of
the
some
of
their
bed
mites
but
not
saw
there's
a
traditional
roots
of
market
and
we're
just
worried
that
the
the
inquiry
that's
that's
taking
place
from
now
till
Christmas.
Will
our
impact
heavily
on
our
sector?
How
do
you,
how
do
you?
How
do
you
rein
in
a
sector?
That's
growing
and
growing
the
sharing
economy,
whether
it
should
be
reigned
in
Massachusetts
in
America?
E
For
instance,
it's
in
the
news
today
they're
looking
at
imposing
a
twelve
percent
tax
on
air
B&B
type
properties,
berlin's
banned,
short-term,
letting
so
they're
a
worldwide
concerns
about
this
and
we're
just
we're
a
robust
sector,
valuable
to
the
Scottish
economy
and
we're
really
worried
that
we're
going
to
be
impacted
by
this
legislation.
If
it
comes
in
okay,.
N
Sorry,
really,
and
just
it
again,
going
back
to
the
figures
and
I
presented
the
pattern,
their
committee
with
a
small
and
background
leasing
document,
and
what
of
and
what
I
think
is
the
most
relevant
stuff
is
in
that
and
I
would
point
out
on
gloss,
I
wouldn't
disagree.
We
are
glowing
and
my
sector
has
had
nearly
sixteen
percent
growth
over
the
last
three
years,
which
is
pretty
good,
given
that
we
are
a
mature
destination
and
it's
a
mature
sector
as
well.
I
would
say
that
Edinburgh
is
growing
exponentially
and
I.
N
Think
that
is
worth
taking
into
consideration
and
Edinburgh
is
probably
fifty
percent
ahead
of
the
rest
of
the
country,
and
if
you
were
to
ask
some
of
the
leading
or
preachers-
and
they
would
see,
you
almost
just-
have
to
look
at
a
new
flight
coming
in
from
Berlin.
Let's
see,
and
you
know
that
they
can
start
to
see
their
numbers
grow
and
while
I
would
say
that,
if,
according
to
our
research,
it's
probably
not
causing
any
great
displacement,
what
it
is
meaning
is
that
that
the
growth
in
Edinburgh
Enders
becoming
like
London.
L
I
would
echo
a
lot
of
Watson
said
round
the
table
by
way
of
opening
remarks,
that
the
tourism
sector
sector
is
buoyant
and
we're
very
fortunate
that
we
have
a
strategy
to
resume.
Scotland
2020
I
think
we're
very
fortunate
that
we've
got
a
national
tourism
organization
that
is
farsighted
and
innovative
as
business
Scotland.
L
However,
I
think
there
is
a
reality
that
businesses
are
suffering
turnovers
are
growing
modestly
or
are
static,
and
margins
are
certainly
being
eroded.
We
are
seeing,
as
others
have
alluded,
to,
were
seeing
very
significant
increased
costs.
The
the
devaluation
of
sterling
has
brought
about
increased
costs
and
imported
foodstuffs,
for
example
in
our
sector
equipment
spare
parts
for
equipment.
Now
that
may
be
short-term,
because
sterling
may
rise
again.
We
we
shall
wait
and
see.
However,
there
are
other
more
fundamental
costs
that
I
think
where
we're
seeing
impacting
on
businesses.
David
alluded
to
business
rates.
L
There
is,
in
our
view,
a
fundamental
flaw
with
the
way
that
hospitality
and
licensed
businesses
are
rated.
The
system
is
arcane,
is
not
transparent,
and
we
hope
that
the
Barclays
review
will
do
something
permanent
about
it.
Scottish
Government
has
listened
to
us
and
something
temporary
has
been
done,
but
if
we
don't
have
a
permanent
solution
by
April
next
year,
we
will
find
ourselves
in
the
same
position.
L
We
were
in
the
spring
of
this
year,
where
businesses,
because
of
business
rates
revaluation,
were
extremely
concerned
about
their
ability
to
stay
open,
their
ability
to
meet
their
obligations
to
banks
that
ability
to
continue
employing
people.
We
were
seeing
increasing
average
increases
and
ratable
values
of
around
about
75%
we've
seen
individual
rate
of
of
values,
increasing
between
ten
and
two
hundred
and
fifty
nine
percent,
and
increases
of
three
four
and
five
hundred
percent,
what
not
uncommon
in
individual
basis.
So
something
has
to
be
done
about
the
burden
of
business
rates
and
there
are
other
costs.
L
I
think
we
we
regard
tourism
as
being
a
devolved
industry
and
and
I.
Think
tourism
and
hospitality
are
well
recognized
and
supported
by
the
Scottish
government
and
a
lot
of
Scottish
government
policies
that
support
our
sector,
but
and
without
making
a
political
point
I'm
making
a
statement
of
reality.
There
are
factors
that
affect
our
businesses
that
are
decided
in
Westminster
and
we
have
to
ensure
in
fact
our
own
organization,
the
BHA
and
the
run-up
to
the
general
election.
L
We
think
that
the
national
living
wage
has
to
be
depoliticized
in
the
same
way
that
the
national
minimum
wage
has
been,
in
other
words,
giving
more
power
to
the
low
pay
Commission.
We
are
not
a
competitive
country
and
Scotland
lies
within
the
UK.
A
rate
of
v80
on
tourism
has
double
that
of
our
European
competitors.
We
constantly
hear
local
authorities
and
others
calling
for
the
imposition
of
a
tourism
tax
on
our
visitors,
which
our
businesses
would
have
to
collect,
and
that
would
simply
add
to
the
price
of
the
services
we
deliver.
L
So
I
think
there
has
to
be
some
reality
that
we
do
not
regard
tourism
as
the
golden
goose
that
keeps
delivering
they.
The
sector
is
buoyant,
but
there
are
pressures
on
our
businesses
and
if
our
businesses
don't
remain
profitable,
we
will
start
to
lose
employment
in
our
sector.
Thirty,
five
percent
of
our
turnover
goes
on
payroll,
so
the
first
thing
managers
look
at
if
there's
pressure
on
turnover
or
profit
is
look
at.
The
number
of
people
they
employ,
so
employment
is
vulnerable.
Reinvestment
is
vulnerable
and
businesses
are
vulnerable
if
they
don't
generate
the
right.
A
Okay,
thank
you
very
much
on
that
particular
point.
I
know
from
them
some
of
the
briefings
that
we've
got
today.
That's
him
all
the
employment
is
rising
in
the
sector
and
the
sector
is
the
wall
in
terms
of
their
accommodation
and
hospitality.
Is
the
war
speed
of
any
major
sector
I,
wonder
if
you
would
like
to
respond
to
that.
I
know
that
are
issues
that
you
have
raised
about
course,
but
clearly
the
issue
of
law
P,
is
something
that
has
been
highlighted
as
an
issue
in
the
sector.
Okay,.
L
Well,
I'll.
Take
that
one
I,
don't
think
that's
altogether.
True
I,
don't
think
our
sector
is
generally
low,
paid
they're,
undeniably,
I
think
there
are
entry
level
and
Elementary
jobs
that
are
at
the
lower
level
of
the
pay
scale
that
are
paid
either
the
national
minimum
or
the
national
living
wage.
L
We
are
looking
at
demand
for
staff
figures,
for
our
industry
and
about
15
percent
of
the
demand
is
for
entry-level
or
elementary
jobs
about
thirty.
Eight
percent
is
demand
for
skilled
jobs
in
our
sector
that
are
paid
at
much
higher
levels
than
the
the
entry-level
would
be.
There's
also
very
rapid
advancement
in
our
sector
for
good
people
who
show
the
right
attitude
and
aptitude
and
most
responsible
employers
invest
in
upscaling
and
training.
Their
staff
I
think
we
are
often
focused
there.
L
There
is
a
focus
on
our
entry-level
and
Elementary
jobs,
yet
all
of
our
businesses
employ
all
of
the
normal
skills
and
pay
the
market
rates
for
the
people
who
fill
these
jobs.
We
employ
accountants,
we
employ
char
specialists,
we
employ
managers,
supervisors
and
marketing
specialists,
so
I
think
to
to
suggest
that
overall
we
are
a
low-paid
sector
is
is
wrong,
so.
A
I
just
for
clarity,
they
did
statistics.
Those
Courtin
were
from
the
Office
of
National
Statistics,
which
were
reproduced
in
the
space
briefing
earning
in
Scotland
2016,
and
it
says
that
accommodation
food
has
had
the
lowest
over
each
of
the
six
key
growth
sectors
they
be
inside
the
Scottish
government,
but
you've
also
explained
here
that
that's
I
think.
L
K
J
We
have
a
tourism
skills
group,
which
is
led
by
robert
allen,
who
is
the
HR
director
of
Apex
hotels
and
has
a
number
or
many
industry
and
agency
partners
around
the
table,
and
certainly
the
attractiveness
of
tourism
as
a
career
is
one
of
the
four
priorities
which
are
identified,
along
with
the
importance
of
management
and
leadership,
skills
and
enterprise
skills,
so
enabling
many
of
these
businesses,
which
may
initially
start
off
as
lifestyle
businesses
to
really
flourish
and
to
grow
into
something
which
is
really
sniffing
employer
in
the
regions.
And
there
are
many
examples
of
that.
J
I
think
also.
The
the
difference
between
or
the
importance
of
tourism
jobs
in
the
rural
economy
is
particularly
important
and
is
often
overlooked.
Tourism
is
probably
wise
is
the
only
together
with
food
and
drink
is
the
only
of
the
key
growth
sectors
that
is
found
in
every
local
authority
area.
Therefore,
its
reach
and
its
ability
to
be
able
to
provide
employment
in
areas
which
are
often
witnessing
the
population,
for
example,
is
it
should
not
be
understated,
so
I
think
it's
really
around
talking
up
tourism.
The
range
of
jobs,
you're,
correct
is,
is
considerable.
J
L
Hospitality
industry
has
18%
non
UK
employees
that's
much
higher
in
some
of
the
city
businesses,
and
if
we
find
that
we,
we
encounter
a
cliff
edge
where
freedom
of
movement
of
people,
for
for
what
reasons
is
in
any
way
hindered
I.
Think
we're
all
of
a
responsibility
to
to
make
our
collective
industries
more
attractive
to
the
indigenous
labor
market.
And
indeed,
we've
submitted
to
the
UK
government
analysis
done
for
us
by
KPMG.
L
Looking
at
how
we
address
that,
and
we
think
it
needs
a
10
year
strategy
to
make
our
industry
more
attractive
to
the
local
labor
market,
to
people
not
currently
economically
active
to
to
people
to
the
new
generation
of
workers
and
that
that
would
have
to
be
accompanied
by
some
sort
of
transition
period.
If
tourism,
generally
in
the
UK
and
in
Scotland,
is
not
going
to
suffer
and
growth
isn't
going
to
be
hampered
by
a
lack
of
employees,
very.
A
D
You
very
much
and
I've
been
interesting.
Set
of
issues
have
come
up
up
in
the
opening
comments.
I
guess:
I
go
back
to
the
Vista
service,
the
drill
Graham
mentioned
in
relation
to
the
rested
experience
and,
of
course
we
all
want
to
and
should
celebrate
the
positive
aspects
of
that,
but
as
part
of
our
job
as
a
committee
to
scrutinize
the
less
encouraging
aspects
and
two
things
stood
out
for
me
in
looking
at
the
the
findings.
D
One
was
the
phrase
that
a
gap
exists
between
expectation
and
experience
of
the
quality
of
food
in
Scotland,
particularly
for
international
visitors,
and
the
other
was
that
satisfaction
with
digital
connectivity
is
lower
than
all
other
aspects
of
the
trip.
So
I'd
be
interested
on
both
these
difficult
areas
in
relative
terms
to
hear
views
about
where
we
are,
what
needs
to
be
done
to
meet
those
challenges
and
how
we're
getting
on
with
doing
that.
I
On
both
and
then
I
suspect,
others
role
will
follow
suit
and
we
were
obviously
work
very
closely
with
Scotland's
wouldn't
drink
in
terms
of
the
whole
provenance
piece
and
in
terms
of
the
way
that
we
want
to
promote
the
very
best
of
Scottish
produce.
We
have
at
least
the
best
scheme
which
has
been
adopted
by
over
1,200
businesses
for
the
country,
and
so
we
have
strong
links
with
other
parts
of
Scottish
government.
I
In
terms
of
that
whole
agenda
I've
got
to
see
that,
although
there
is
a
gap,
it's
quite
interesting
that
if
you
look
at
the
the
data,
the
expectation
before
people
came
under
actual
expectation
after
they'd
been
it's
quite
interesting
and
I.
Think
a
lot
of
people
came
with
the
perception
that
the
food
wasn't
going
to
be
so
good
and
it's
been
much
better
and
there's
been
significant
improvement
over
the
past
three
or
four
years
in
terms
of
that
they're
really
interesting.
One
I
think
and
you've
picked
up
on
it.
I
Is
that
whole
digital
connectivity
piece
when
we
did
whisker
service
even
four
or
five
years
ago?
It
was
never
on
the
agenda
was
never
mentioned,
but
now
it
is
the
single
most
significant
factor
that
visitors
mentioned
either
mobile
signal
or
not
being
able
to
get
access
to
Wi-Fi
or
be
able
to
use
the
piece
of
plastic
that
they
hold
in
their
hand
and
I.
Think
that
is
very
important.
Indeed.
I
The
other
side
of
that,
of
course,
is
getting
the
industry
and
to
be
smarter
in
terms
of
using
digital
connectivity
in
their
in
their
day
to
day
work
and
in
terms
of
the
business
operation
so
being
online
bookable,
encouraging
user-generated
contact
and
also
in
improving
the
their
presence
on
the
internet
and
working
through
digital
tourism,
scotland
and
our
partners
and
the
public
in
private
sector.
We
see
that
as
a
huge,
a
huge
opportunity
as
well.
A
N
N
N
We're
not
much
further
forward
in
terms
of
people
who
are
buying
into
are
actually
marketing
it
internally
to
industry
and
enabling
them
and,
as
I
say,
I
speak
with
Fiona
Richmond
of
food
and
drink
on
a
very
regular
basis,
and
they
say
that
they
don't
have
any
money
to
help
support,
put
put
on
events
which,
with
showcase
there's
one
happening
in
Aden,
but
actually
next
month,
where
they've
managed
to
get
some
funding
from
private
sponsors.
And
we
don't
need
a
membership
organization.
We're
quite
poor
and
we
certainly
don't
have
big
money
to
put
in
behind.
N
A
K
Just
in
the
Gulf
and
expectations
north
was
500
has
sort
of
the
reverse
problem.
You
know
we
have
over
the
last
18
months.
Two
years
you've
been
ranked,
you
know
by
National
Geographic
Traveler,
the
number
two
reason
to
travel
at
101
reasons
to
travel
condé,
nast
ranking
as
the
the
number
one
two
things
in
the
world.
K
So
we
can't
be
complacent
about
and
either
and
looking
you
know
at
the
food
and
drink
is
a
key
component
of
our
visitors
experiences
and
my
own
anecdotal
evidence
is
bringing
four
American
friends
last
year
to
the
north
coast,
500th,
which
was
a
bit
of
a
busman's
holiday
for
me,
but
we
went
round
at
the
end
of
the
day.
Trip
I
said
them.
So
what
was
the
standard
thing
for
you
and
unprompted
by
me?
K
They
were
there
last
north
of
Inverness
in
2000,
and
they
said
the
food,
the
food
in
the
last
60s
from
16
years
ago
to
no
was
just
worlds
apart
and
I
think
sometimes
you
can
beat
ourselves
up
about
our
offering
and
sometimes
we
don't
actually
see
what's
in
front
of
us.
Basically,
it's
a
very
small
sample
for
four
people,
but
I'm
and
unreliable
people
too,
but
you
know
sometimes
were
too
close
to
actually
see
how
good
we
are-
and
there
are
some
you
know-
the
exceptional
producers
and
suppliers
in
Scotland
digital
connectivity.
C
Thank
you
forms
thanks
very
much
and
great
hero
that
positivity
and
on
the
back
of
that
I've
got
a
question
about
the
north
coast,
500
model,
because
obviously
there's
a
question
about
how
we
bring
everything
together:
the
food
and
drink,
how
we
together
meet
some
of
the
challenges,
whether
that's
digital,
whether
it's
infrastructure
of
other
kinds,
rules,
etc.
How
we
bring
it
together,
I
know
that
there
are
several
in
sort
of
community
organizations
or
our
business
organizations
that
are
local,
so
our
girls,
males
and
tutors
in
cooperative,
for
example,
and
renessa.
K
Size
toddlers,
yes,
yeah,
doctor
500
model,
we
you
know
when
we
established
estimable,
we're
looking
at
establishing
this.
I
was
a
view
of
of
user,
that's
had
to
be
different.
Traditionally,
you
know
destination
management
organizations.
If
that's
what
you
want
to
call
us
are
publicly
funded
and
your
funding
tends
to
be
for
short,
bursts
and
tends
to
then
just
die
away.
So
you
saw
a
bit
like
fireworks
in
the
sky.
You
get
this
burst
of
activity,
everyone's
usually
excited.
K
You
know
one
or
two,
three,
four
half
dozen
projects
are
created,
everyone
thinks
is
fantastic
and
then
it
goes
because
the
funding
has
gone
so
we
knew
the
model
had
to
be
different,
and
for
us
this
was
a
bit
monetizing.
The
brand.
The
way
of
making
this
sustainable
was
actually
not
having
the
court
course
publicly
funded,
but
actually
having
this
as
a
private
sector
and
invested
model,
and
key
for
us
is
how
we
monetize
the
brand.
Professor
john
lennon
carried
a
scoping
study
and
trove
of
concepts,
and
he
said
the
key.
K
J
Caroline
so
in
terms
of
the
destinations
we've
done
a
bit
of
work.
Looking
at
the
destinations
of
the
icky
strand
of
the
tourism
strategy,
we
use
a
number
of
between
2025
destination
groups
in
Scotland,
and
every
single
one
of
them
is
different.
So
there
is
no
one
model
that
we
have
successfully
worked
in,
Scotland
I,
think
I
would
say
now
that
many
people
may
say
oh
well.
This
means
that
is
it's
not
right
and
I.
Think
it's
quite
the
opposite.
J
I
think
it
just
shows
how
innovative
and
creative
the
sector
is
to
capitalize
on
the
resources
and
the
skills
that
are
available
within
their
destinations,
and
everyone
is
different.
The
two
examples
I
would
pull
out.
One
is
our
girls
and
the
Isles
tourism,
which
you
mentioned,
and
this
is
really
a
really
creative
way
of
looking
at
the
destinations,
all
of
which
have
the
issue
of
financial
sustainability.
That
is
probably
one
of
the
key
issues
for
these
destination
groups.
J
Now
it's
a
five-year
business
plan,
they're
starting
to
come
towards
the
second
half
of
that,
so
they
will
be
looking
for
that.
We
election
of
that
of
that
business
plan
in
that
model
and
if
businesses
are
being
squeezed
in
other
ways,
such
as
business
rates
and
other
course,
then
it
may
be
that
businesses
decide
not
to
vote
for.
This
is
a
completely
democratic
process
and
there
have
been
other
destinations
in
Scotland
that
have
looked
at
this
model
and
have
tried
to
adopt
the
similar
model
and
the
local
industry
has
said
it's
not
for
us.
J
So
there
is
no
single
success
or
no
single
model
that
has
been
adopted
throughout.
It
is
something
which
I
would
welcome
the
opportunity
for
us
to
look
at
in
considerably
more
detail,
because,
as
I
say,
we
rely
our
destinations
and
there
is
millions
of
pounds
worth
of
in-kind
time
put
in
from
businesses,
all
of
whom
are
running
their
own
businesses,
in
addition
to
to
trying
to
lead
our
destinations
for
us.
Okay,.
H
Thank
you
sister
on
the
team
that
keep
Forbes
picked
up
on
on
clearly
the
stats
that
they
are
very
positive
and
to
me,
as
I'm
sure
and
out
on
the
table,
there's
massive
untapped
potential
throughout
Scotland,
even
starting
from
this
good
point.
We
are
at
the
moment
and
it's
clearly
a
national
fortune
as
a
local
approaches
and
we've
heard
of
some
good
examples
of
local
approaches.
H
So
math
equations
are
firstly
when
you
look
at
some
of
the
national
approaches
like
attracting
advances,
Scotland's
and
apparently,
according
to
this
briefing,
the
Scottish
government
are
going
to
devote
up
to
63
million
pounds
on
the
2018
European
Championships
processors.
Lea's
are
examples
are
going
to
receive
substantial
funding
and
then
locally.
We
have
our
local
destination
organizations
and
constituencies
are
scrambling.
H
Your
owns
for
fifteen
thousand
tones
twenty
thousand
phones
to
do
some
good
work
at
MIT
s
and
math,
and
slips
and
say,
of
course,
look
at
them
out
of
space,
a
citizen
initiative
which
is
doing
some
really
good
work,
but
they're
struggling
for
funds.
So
can
the
witness's
comments
on
Harry
strike
that
national
local
balance
and
secondly,
picking
up
in
terms
partial
answer
to
that
the
private
sector,
so
those
use
my
own
research
as
an
example,
we've
struggled
for
many
many
years
to
engage
the
chief
executives
of
the
Brisky
companies
with
exceptions.
H
Local
oil
companies,
like
Gordon
MacPhail,
are
very
supportive
of
local
initiatives,
but
the
penalty
cards
are
the
as
yours
shall
we
say,
are
much
more
challenging
in
terms
of
engaging
the
chief
executives
and
promoting
regional
tourism
and
what
better
advert
can
you
have
for
spaces
and
the
the
hundreds
of
millions
of
bottles
that
have
that
one
corner
that
exported
every
year
from
Scotland?
So
some
people
call
in
here
we
get
private
sector
on
boards.
Local
initiatives.
H
I
But
it
will
be
a
senior
official
that
we
will
get
only
cue
that
we
engage
in
any
with
very
aware
that
particular
with
the
whiskey
industry,
I,
was
in
ila
a
couple
weeks
ago
and
working
there
with
the
distilleries
to
enhance
that
whole
collaborative
approach
through
the
discoveries.
Working
together
is
something
that
we
want
to
encourage
because
they
have
a
huge
international
visitation,
as
you've
already
highlighted.
I.
Think
you
make
it
a
really
good
point
about
the
the
national
local
piece.
We
will
then
visit.
I
Scotland
I've
been
looking
at
our
whole
approach
to
engaging
with
local
organisations,
destination
groups,
whatever
they
may
be,
called
and
and
Carolina
thinkers
has
covered.
That
point
really
well
I
think.
Sometimes
it's
not
always
about
money.
Sometimes
it's
about
identifying
where
they
can
make
the
biggest
difference.
I
We
engage
in
a
collaborative
basis
through
our
growth
wand,
and
a
number
of
destinations
throughout
Scotland
have
have
tapped
into
that
and
have
been
hugely
successful
in
terms
of
the
marketing
I
think
their
role
is
is
absolutely
about
bringing
people
together,
bringing
businesses
together,
and
they
do
that
really
well
on
a
collaborative
basis.
It's
also
but
identifying
where
we
can
add
value,
and
sometimes
it's
about
the
data
and
the
the
information
and
the
insights
that
we
can
bring
to
enhance
their
marketing.
I
At
the
extent
that
know
all
the
data
on
old
website
is
drawn
through
to
theirs
and
so
that
they
have
saved
a
lot
of
money
and
having
to
duplicate
services
and
we're
looking
to
enhance
that
that
project
through
all
over
the
country,
where
we
provide
a
lot
of
the
central
marketing
on
behalf
of
local
destinations
and
we're
encouraging
each
destination
rather
than
spend
a
lot
of
money
and
on
duplicating,
but
all,
but
rather
identifying
the
content
that
they
can
provide
us
with
the
rich
content.
A
great
example
of
that
is
NC
500.
I
Where
leave
what
was
really
closely
in
terms
of
the
marketing
to
enhance
that,
but
I
think
you're
right,
there's
more
that
can
be
done
and
when
we
speak
to
destination
organizations
that
sustainable
funding
model
is
one
that
that
that
really
does
challenge.
One
of
the
challenges
is,
of
course,
the
lack
of
large
players
in
the
tourism
industry
that
are
able
and
to
contribute
financially
throughout
the
country
and
I.
Think
that's
something
that
Tom's
managed
to
work
really
well
in
NC
500
and
we
can
learn
from
I.
K
Actually
think
we
turn
this
completely
on
its
head
and
stop
thinking
about
giving
it
15,000
here
and
20,000
here
and
asking
corporates
for
effectively
CSR
donations
and
doing
good.
You
know
we're
not
talking
a
business
language
to
corporates.
I
wish
exact.
They
would
much
much
easier
to
find
it
much
easier
to
listen
to
our
language.
That
says
you
know
this
is
going
to
have
a
financial
impact
and
longevity.
K
It
is
not,
in
my
opinion,
creating
sustainability
in
so
many
and
actually
what
we're
doing
is
we're
raising
expectations
and
they
were
just
dropping
folk
off
the
cliff
again
and
in
terms
of
our
business
model,
we
have
to
be
sustainable.
You
know
we
have
to
break
even
and
make
a
profit,
and
if
we
don't
were
a
job-
and
it
says
hard
and
as
brittle
as
that
and
that's
how
it
has
to
be-
it's
not
cost
500,
there's
going
to
be
here
in
ten
years
time.
You
know:
that's
the
business
model
that
we've
put
together.
Okay,.
L
It's
investing
in
websites
is
investing
in
reservation
systems
and
all
of
that
activity
is
directly
promoting
Scotland
and
and
the
destinations
in
which
the
businesses
are
located
and
I
think
it's
very
difficult
to
actually
quantify
that
and
pooter
put
a
figure
on
it,
but
every
business
that
has
a
website
that
is
marketing
promoting
the
business
is
also
promoting
the
area
and
what
the
area
has
to
offer.
I.
Don't
think
we
recognise
that
enough
as
a
contribution
that
businesses
are
making
okay.
F
It's
sort
of
been
kicking
woods
and
nuts
to
do
it
and
I
think
I've
got
quite
a
few
questions.
I
might
just
fire
them
all,
wait
and
see
what
everyone
comes
back
with
and
touching
on
directors
point
as
well:
I
think
that
was
vitally
important
that
my
constituency
I
mean.
We
have
a
lot
of
big
events.
We
have
more
face
which,
which
is
happening
next
week
and
actually
just
a
little
advert
in
case
anybody
wants
to
make
it
long.
We
have
international
arts
attend
and
I
think
so.
F
The
Beach
Boys
this
time
doing
the
hard
line
items
last.
What
last
year,
I
am
Harley
Davidson
in
the
city,
there's
some
big
connections
there
and
bît-yakin
would
I
live
and
the
fire
balls
event
and
still
in
here,
the
net
new
year.
You
know,
there's
massive
things
going
on
that
when
you
see
like
Richard,
pointed
out
some
of
the
the
sums
of
money
that
are
being
invested
in
some
of
those
events.
It
is
in
terms
of
what
kind
of
support
can
be
given
to
these.
F
If
that's
in
terms
of
marketing
and
I'd
be
interested
to
hear
from
visit
Scotland
about.
Do
you.
We
on
those
events
and
the
people
that
organize
them
coming
to
you
is
that
done
through
local
authorities
as
well
I'm,
but
in
terms
of
some
of
those
events
as
well,
I
mean
particularly
and
I,
guess
that
something
we
struggled
with
is
actually
accommodation
and
have
an
accommodation
to
put
people
up
when
they
come
and
visit
and
I'm.
F
Following
on
from
that,
too,
we
have
the
V&A,
which
is
the
buildings
coming
on
and
Dundee,
and
it's
how
we
are
able
to
I
think
that
will
be
a
massive
visited
attraction
for
the
northeast
of
Scotland.
But
if
then,
how
we
draw
people
into
the
lakes
of
August
for
and
other
local
authority
areas
around
there
too,
and
how
they're
able
to
reap
the
benefits
from
that
in
terms
of
ugly
tourism
as
well.
There's
an
organization
Gore
rudl,
which
has
been
working
with
lots
of
doodle
businesses.
F
F
A
G
But
we
as
an
association,
may
be
able
to
help
sometimes
with
that,
with
the
aging,
with
the
with
the
planners
of
events,
festivals
and
on
that
kind
of
accommodation
and
I'm
sure
self-catering
people
would
say
the
same.
We're
all
happy
to
sit
down
when
these
things
are
being
planned
ahead
to
see
how
our
members
cancel
help
with
the
accommodation
of
festivals
and
events.
A
I
I'm
trying
to
answer
some
of
your
questions
right.
It's
combination
of
both
event.
Organizers,
come
to
us
for
advice.
We
have
a
separate
events
Directorate
and
we
provide
advice
on
on
best
practice,
how
to
run
an
event
will
successfully
more
sustainably
and
how
to
market.
We
often
find
it
with
small
events.
The
event
organizers
are
hugely
passionate
about
the
subject,
but
maybe
not
so
good
about
the
marketing
and
the
promotion.
I
So
we
have
a
role
there
and
helping,
and
we
have
an
Events
Fund,
often
linked
to
our
themed
years,
where
we
provide
funding
to
help
promote
on
earth
main
consumer-facing
website
visit
Scotland
com.
We
have
a
big
section
on
events
and
we
rely
on
our
local
event,
organisers
to
provide
content
for
that
I.
Think
you
make
a
good
point
about
accommodation.
I
Some
of
the
the
big
events
do
come
under
a
lot
of
pressure,
I'm
thinking
about
the
Open
Golf
Championship,
as
an
example
did
I
mention
it,
and
the
presence
of
David
but
yeah
B&B
provide
a
particularly
significant
facility
there
at
a
local
level,
and
you
know
I
hear
the
air
B&B
being
maligned
in
many
cases,
but
actually
we
need
to
learn
from
them.
They
do
an
awful
lot
of
good.
We've
got
16,000
hosts
in
Scotland
and
they
have
a
marketing
model.
That
is
the
envy
of
a
lot
of
others.
I
So,
whilst
I
recognize
that
initiating
regulation
they're
also
very
keen
to
work
with
event,
organisers
and
I
know
they
sponsored
the
end
revenge
couple
of
years
ago.
So
there's
an
opportunity.
There
good
point
about
the
V&A,
we're
looking
at
a
different
approach
to
how
we
measure
quality
and
we're
recognizing
we've
identified
Dundee
as
an
example
where
we
can
look
at
quality
and
around
and
look
at
the
whole
visitor
experience.
So
when
people
arrive,
how
do
they?
And
what's
that
experience
like?
I
What's
the
accommodation
like
in
addition
to
the
attraction,
what
other
things
can
can
be
done
in
the
area?
Not
just
in
the
city
and
what's
the
eating
and
drinking
facilities
like
and
what's
the
detail
so
looking
at
that
in
the
range
rather
than
just
in
separate
sections
and
trying
to
identify
areas
where
we
can
do
better,
because
we
firmly
believe
that
the
V&A
will
bring
additional
and
new
visitors
that
would
never
have
come
to
Scotland
before,
and
so
how
do
we
enhance
that
experience
and
it
spread
it
absolutely
beyond
the
city?
I
So
that's
part
of
the
overall
strategy
working
with
the
local
authorities
in
that
area
and
linked
to
the
city
deal
I
know
Caroline,
knows
very
well
so
I'm
very
aware
of
good
rural
and
David
does
as
well
she's
constantly
bending
a
year
and
I.
Think
Richard
will
note
that
as
well
in
his
previous
role
as
as
Minister,
she's,
usually
passionate,
and
quite
rightly
because
agritourism
is
hugely
important
to
the
economy
of
Scotland.
I
The
little
parts
in
particular
and
she's
argued
the
case
really
well,
and
we've
recognized
that
and
we've
been
working
with
her,
particularly
on
the
marketing
side.
And
here
you
point
to
the
brakes
at
issue
and
I
suspect
others
will
have
a
bit
of
you
in
that.
But
we
recognize
that
Europe
Germany's
of
second
most
important
international
market,
and
we
want
to
to
grow
that
even
further
than
we
are
obviously
concerned
about
the
potential
negative
impacts
that
the
exit
may
have.
J
We
will
see
that
starting
to
come
together
a
bit
more
coherently
over
the
next
year,
so
I
think
there's
a
watch
this
space.
So
that's
that's
really
good
news
and
with
respect
to
the
events,
I've
been
to
most
West
for
the
last
three
years.
It's
excellent
thoroughly
recommend
it
in
terms
of
the
accommodation
challenge,
it's
really
about
using
the
local
businesses
and
I.
Suppose
my
knowledge
of
Angus
is
that
I.
E
On
on
brexit,
if
that's
alright,
to
do
with
rural
funding,
and
at
the
moment
you
guys
deal
with
Europe
in
this
committee,
there
is
the
rural
leader
program
that
goes
ahead.
Lots
of
many
projects
right
across
Scotland
in
rural
areas,
a
good
proportion
of
which
a
tourism,
the
new
boats
on
lot
say,
for
instance,
our
leader
funded,
and
we're
very
worried
that
this
section
of
funding
will
just
disappear
when
we
leave
Europe
and
it
won't
be
replaced-
and
thank
you
something
that
used
to
be
kept
an
eye
on
these.
We.
A
B
You
convener
I
was
interested
in
some
of
the
contributions,
the
sustainability
aspect,
not
relying
on
perhaps
just
a
themed
and
initiative
to
give
a
spin-off
for,
or
even
some
of,
the
breaks
at
funding,
also
the
local
national
balance
and
and
also
the
challenges
that
were
mentioned,
which
bring
us
I
think
full
circle
where
business
rates,
where
mentioned
as
a
key
challenge,
now
really
give
I.
Think
some
examples
of
just
how
have
been
impinging
on
business's
ability
to
be
sustainable
and
I
wondered
if
we
could
go
around
the
table
and
see.
B
Given
that
the
berkeley
review
group
is
due
to
report
in
july,
just
sport
in
the
sector,
you
think,
could
be
done
to
improve
the
business
rate
system
and
just
under
national
local
thing.
I'll
put
suggestion
and
would
it
be
welcomed,
for
example,
for
local
authorities
to
have
control
of
business
rates
and
to
be
able
to
retain
the
money
from
business
rates.
And
then,
if
you
have
to
rhythm
as
a
very
big
part
of
your
local
authority,
a
very
big
and
industry,
their
employer
there,
then
the
business
rate
system
could
could
reflect
that.
L
Think
one
main
suggestion
would
be
that,
regardless
of
what
else
Berkeley
may
say,
I
think
the
Assessor
needs
to
get
round
the
table
with
the
industry
and
with
the
industry's
professional
advisers
and
with
a
look
at
the
way
they
approach
our
sector,
and
there
are
some
lessons
to
be
had
from
the
way
the
valuation
office
agency
deals
with
things
in
England
and
Wales
on
the
second
point
really
of
local
authorities
being
responsible
for
or
retaining
business
rates.
I
think
we
probably
would
have
to
see
a
much
better
worked
up
proposition
before
we
responded
to
that.
L
I
think
the
principal
concern
would
be
one
of
inconsistency
in
rates
and
creation
of
a
less
than
competitive
playing
field
across
the
country
of
different
businesses.
Different
local
authority
areas
were
applying
different
rates.
You
could
turn
that
on
its
head
and
say
it
could
make
one
area
more
competitive
against
another,
and
that's
why
I
say
I
think
we
need
to
look
at
that.
A
lot
more
carefully,
I
think
our
principal
concern.
We
in
fact
we're
depress
and
quiet
a
with
that.
L
A
K
Mean
I
never
to
belay
any
increase
in
anything
around
the
vitreous
is
just
seen
as
a
tax,
and
no
one
businesses,
perhaps
they'll,
see
any
benefit
from
that.
Does
he
have
been
from
the
tactical
Indiana
benefit
from
the
increase?
I.
Think
one
of
the
challenges
that
we
have
is
the
bed
model
and
the
bed
model
in
for
their
tourism
bed
was
mentioned.
Loch,
Ness
and
I
think
there's
a
real
challenge.
The
bed
model
know
as
we
see
them.
You
know
business
rates
increasing
and
perhaps
of
combining
those
two
together.
N
And
just
to
agree
with
Willie
I
think
it
probably
does
need
to
be
brought
up
too
deep.
Now
in
terms
of
meeting
with
the
associate
of
Scottish
disasters,
because
the
their
complete
with
their
methodologies
completely
robust,
it's
probably
just
a
bit
out
of
deep
and
they
do
set
themselves
up,
as
you
know,
as
being
independent
and
that
they're
the
thing
is
transparent,
it's
or
transparent.
N
The
spaghetti
is
like
that,
underneath
it,
you
know,
you
look
at
the
practice
notes
about
how
they
come
to
get
a
read,
a
readable
value,
and
it's
just
it's
mind
blowing
you
know
in
my
sector
and
where
you've
got
historic
buildings,
you
get
different
kinds
of
buildings,
it's
so
difficult.
They
really
can't
get
the
hedge
owned
it,
and
maybe
we
are
an
example
of
what
to
dismiss
like
generally.
This
is
not.
This
is
not
a
big
high-rise
office
block,
that's
owned
by
a
multinational
and
where
it's
easy
to
take
the
measurements
and
apply.
N
You
know
that
the
mass
to
it
and
so
I
do
think
this
probably
is
overdue-
that
we
need
this
at
me,
leader,
meeting
proper
high-level
meeting
with
the
Scottish
Assessors
to
see
if
there's
not
another
way
that
we
could
look
at
relating.
The
other
thing
is
my
section
is
different
from
most
other
sectors,
but
we
have
a
mix
of
private
sector,
public
sector
charities
trusts
and,
as
we
know,
charity
from
trusts,
don't
pay
any
commercial
rates
papers
in
the
streets
at
all
so
effectively.
N
The
private
sector
is
almost
cross
subsidizing,
those
areas
and
anyone
who's
got
any
interest,
and
education
can
apply
for
charitable
trust
status.
It
don't
always
get
it,
so
it
is
a
very
uneven
playing
field
and
I
would
suggest
that
some
of
the
intimacy,
some
of
the
maths,
probably
relates
back
to
things
that
work
out
practices
that
were
happening
fifty
years
ago
and
maybe
not
to
do
see.
E
E
We,
we
have
a
good
relationship
with
our
Assessors
that
we
deal
with
and
we
kind
of
know
the
spaghetti
quite
well,
but
even
so,
we
didn't
get
a
good
result
that
everybody
could
understand.
The
seven-year
gap
that
we've
had
between
the
last
revaluation
is
just
far
too
far
apart.
We
think
we
think
Berkeley
should
consider
a
three
year
revaluation,
because
even
five
years
it
starts
to
get
very
historical,
I
think
anything
shorter
than
three
years.
The
Assessors
wouldn't
wouldn't
cook,
wouldn't
cook,
wouldn't
cope
with
it.
E
It
has
been
expanded.
We're
very
grateful,
absolutely
very
grateful,
but
you
know
Berkeley
might
come
in
and
change
that
we
might
say
right
you.
This
is
getting
a
hundred
percent
relief.
You
get
75
percent
relief
or
whatever
it
is.
It's
a
landscape
than
the
changes.
Ethical
were
looking
at
readable
valuations
in
the
round.
We're
grateful
for
the
cap
that
the
government
gave
us.
It
was
at
twelve
and
a
half
percent
class
inflation,
which
was
very
helpful
to
some
of
our
members
that
have
suffered
big
increases.
E
The
cap
is
only
until
next
year
and
I
think
there's
a
bit
of
hard
talking
that
has
to
happen
between
now
and
then
to
see
what
happens
you
know
for
20.
You
know
2018-19
going
forwards
because
we're
just
going
to
be
in
the
same
black
pool
again:
it'll
be
compounded
business
costs
also
we
would
brexit
and
also
with
wages,
now
not
not
meeting
inflation,
there's
a
squeeze
in
terms
of
people's
ability,
people
spending
ability
which
is
going
to
come
around
to
bite
us,
maybe
by
this
time.
Next
year.
Okay,.
G
To
Rekha
what
people
have
said
on
this
and
just
add
that
I
hope
that
Berkeley
review
will
look,
take
step
back
and
look
widely
at
the
whole
thing,
and
particularly
where
the
definition
of
a
business
starts
and
how
you
define
a
business,
particularly
in
this
new
world
of
sharing
economy.
Where
a
lot
of
our
members,
maybe
only
have
one
or
two
or
three
letting
bedrooms
in
their
own
home.
Is
that
a
business?
When
is
that
defined
as
a
business?
Why
do
they
pay
a
charge
attacks
when
a
competitor,
the
same
size,
next
door?
G
Isn't
paying
that
you
know
it's
a
level
playing
field
and
it's
it's
just
looking
at
where
that
starts,
and
how
you
treat
very
small
businesses
at
the
beginning
of
that
chain.
You
know
how
you
define
a
micro
business
to
encourage
the
sector
and
to
encourage
the
growth
in
tourism
across
the
country.
Thanks.
M
Convener
and
commend
intending
to
ask
about
short
term
works
and
both
David's
got
in
stereo.
Your
first
comments
on
it,
but
you
said
slightly
different
things
around
and
around
how
we
regulate
that
sector,
because
it's
growing
massively
I
think
the
estimates
are
over
6,000
and
Edinboro
reading,
it's
essentially
unregulated.
What
is
it
you
would
like
to
see
come
out
of
us
move
towards
regulation.
G
Thank
you
for
the
question.
What
we've
been
saying
is
just
very
simple
that
we
think
there
should
be
a
level
playing
field
and
similar
sized
businesses
or
micro
businesses
should
just
comply
with
the
similar
regulations
as
simple
as
that,
we're
not
asking
for
a
whole
lot
of
new
regulations
to
be
lumped
on
to
air
B&B
that
you
know
that
wouldn't
be
right
either.
G
We
welcome
competition
where
our
whole
lives
that
I
think
everyone
around
this
table
from
the
industry
would
say
the
same.
If
there's
a
very
competitive
industry,
we're
all
competitive
with
each
other,
we're
all
competitive,
being
B's
are
competitive,
with
hotels
with
of
catering,
a
whole
life
we
and
with
other
being
basically
so
we're
used
to
competition,
but
it
has
to
be
fair.
E
Issued
a
code
of
practice
for
City
self-catering,
which
we've
given
to
Edinburgh
Council
and
Glasgow
Council
and
also
Airbnb,
and
it's
been
actually
quite
well
received,
obviously
like
like
Bed
and
Breakfasts,
we
would
like
to
see
a
level
playing
field,
but
their
existing
rules
that
can
be
enforced.
The
fire
regulations
are
existing
rules,
they
can
be
enforced
and
rather
than
coming
with
great
heavy
boots.
I
think
there's
a
lot
to
be
said
for
seeing
what
we
can
do
at
the
end
of
the
day,
cities
have
to
find
a
balance.
E
You
know
that
the
concerns
are
between
loss
of
residential
immunity.
You
know
housing
stock
being
taken
up
by
by
holidays
party
flats.
Concern
about
that.
There
are
ways
of
dealing
with
that.
There
is
existing
legislation
to
deal
with
that,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
you
have
to
find
a
balance
between
residue
and
also
economic
growth
and
tourism
and
I.
Think
if
the
inquiry
conduct
look
at
that
sensibly,
rather
than.
M
On
that
point,
a
bit
of
Bounce
between
the
rates
of
residents
versus
economic
growth
dates
back
up
an
appointment
Eva
made
at
the
start
around
the
exponential
growth
in
Edinburgh
compared
to
other
areas
of
the
country.
If
T
the
most
extreme
example
that
I
can
think
of
is
in
Barcelona,
where
the
agenda
now
is
in
essentially
deep
growth
around
tourism
is
in
reclaiming
this
ethic,
because
the
mood
of
the
population
there
has
shifted
so
much.
They
feel
that
they've
lost,
so
I
must
know
that
the
prevailing
political
wind
and
that's
not
necessarily
Sforza
wards.
M
How
do
we
ensure
that,
for
start,
we
are
spreading
that
growth?
The
Edinburgh
scene,
is
more
Edinburgh,
seen
as
a
staging
destination.
That
service
may
arrive
there
and
travel
elsewhere
in
the
country
after
having
spent
a
few
days,
and
but
also
that
we
are
getting
that
balance
right
for
the
rates
of
residents
residents
don't
feel
as
if
they're
being
truth
upon
and
the
hysterically
starts
to
build
towards
the
industry.
I
think.
E
Edinburgh
is
what
it
what
it
is
Edinburgh
if
you
look
at
Scotland
Edinburgh
is
one
of
the
first
destinations
that
gets
searched
for
the
highlands
as
a
second
I
think,
with
a
magic
bullet
to
get
everybody
out
of
Edinburgh
and
the
group
the
go
rural
initiative
was
actually
originally
around
getting
people
out
of
Scotland
cities.
It
was
on
a
90
mile,
60
mile
90
mile
travel
time,
I
think
wasn't
it
and
yeah.
If
you
know,
there's
a
magic
bullet,
I
think
we'd
certainly
do
it,
but
Edinburgh
is
whatever
it
is.
It's
a
world
heritage
destination.
E
L
The
regulatory
pointer,
I
I,
don't
think
any
of
us
object
to
any
new
form
of
competition
coming
along
and
I'm
there
B&B
and
the
like
exactly
that.
I
think
the
issue
has
to
be
one
of
a
level
playing
field
of
competitive
environment,
certainly
within
the
regulatory
regime,
but
I
think
there
are
difficulties
with
the
current
regulations
in
that
there
are
different
thresholds
that
apply
the
different
thresholds
for
planning.
There's
different
thresholds
for
far
there's
different
thresholds
for
compliance
with
environmental
health.
There's
different
thresholds
for
whether
you
you
pay
pay
business
rates
or
not
so
I.
L
Think
the
other
issue
on
the
small
business
bonus
scheme
and
I'm
not
going
to
be
terribly
popular
for
saying
this-
is
that
it
is
paid
for
by
other
businesses
who
pay
the
large
business
supplement
and
I'd
argue
very
strongly
that
a
business
with
a
readable
value
of
fifty
six
thousand
pounds
a
year
is
not
a
large
business
by
any
of
the
defined
definitions
of
small
business
and
I.
Think
we
have
to
look
carefully
at
every
business
of
benefits,
from
whatever
benefit
we
get
from
rates.
L
I
Just
to
respond
to
the
second
point
about
Barcelona
and
the
example
I
think
that's
a
point
well
made.
We
led
on
the
creation
of
our
tourism
development
framework,
which
identified
areas
of
opportunity
in
terms
of
investment
and
and
one
of
the
challenges.
I
think
is
it's
not
so
much
about
the
volume
of
is
what
the
kind
of
visitor
and
there's
a
great
example
in
Edinburgh,
where,
if
you
know,
walk
along
Princess
Street
from
one
end
to
the
other
huge
increase
in
the
number
of
budget
hotels.
I
The
question
is
not
so
much
about
that's
great,
listen,
there's
new
bed
species
and
have
nothing
against
budget
details,
but
if
you're
positioning
Edinburgh
for
the
future
should
the
planners
when
making
decisions,
identify
opportunities
to
upskill.
The
accommodation
and
we've
got
a
great
example
in
Glasgow
about
a
month
ago,
where
we
know
of
a
fact
that
a
major
conference
didn't
come
to
Glasgow,
because
there
was
insufficient
high-end
accommodation
to
accommodate
the
VIPs.
There
were
not
enough
Suites,
yet
there's
a
lot
of
accommodation.
I
K
K
So
you
know,
whilst
we
are
growing
like
this,
you
know
what
actually,
if
you
look
back
and
at
the
statistics
on
the
depopulation,
if
you
like,
of
available
accommodation
and
actually
we
behind,
where
everywhere
before
so
so,
yes,
there
are
pockets
where
you
know
there
will
be
concerned,
but
there's
other
areas
where
there
are
real
opportunities
for
businesses
to
grow
as
well
and
for
the
visitor
numbers
to
increase.
We
saw
an
increase
of
29,000
new
visitors.
N
N
If
you
get
hauled
off
because
it's
part
of
the
Celtic
Tiger,
but
you
know
six
or
seven
years
into
that
and
complaints
from
other
guests
and
hotels
and
other
places
and
laid
to
them
actually
looking
at
again
and
retail,
seeing
absolutely
not
we're
not
doing
it
and
I
would
suggest
that
there
is
a
there.
Is
a
growth
we're
looking
at
you
know,
you
know
if
you're
right
at
the
beginning
of
your
growth,
you
take
in
a
Liberty,
but
if
you
have
a
mature
destinations
and
I
think
you
have
to
be
quite
picky.
H
That's
also
supplementing
that-
and
this
is
a
very
familiar
to
beat
from
space
aids.
We
are
it,
albeit
and
slightly
critical
of
the
whiskey
companies.
You
could
do
more.
They
do
play
a
crucial
role
in
tourism
to
the
visitor
centers
and
inviting
overseas
visitors,
who
are
sales
teams,
or
ever
they
are
and
they're,
often
looking
for
places
to
pick
these
people
up,
50
or
60
or
40
a
time,
and
they
have
to
use
the
hotels
in
the
earn
and
adding
more
as
opposed
to
in
space
aid.
H
I
I,
if
I
can
respond
initially
and
that
clearly
accusin
development
framework
was
a
major
step
forward
there,
because
it
identified
challenges
and
issues
all
32
local
authorities,
plus
the
two
national
parks
contributed
to
that.
So
I
think
there
was
buy-in
in
a
way
that
was
never
seen
before.
I
was
called
before.
I
I
kicked
off
that
that
if
he
got
a
dozen
or
so
local
authorities
to
support
it,
usually
well
yeah
I'm,
feeling
competitive,
and
so
therefore
we
got
32
so
that
there's
a
buy-in
from
a
local
authority
point
of
view,
I
think
the
bit
that's
missing
is
the
supply
and
demand
piece,
which
is
to
convince
a
private
sector
investor
to
come
in.
You
have
to
show
that
there
is
real
demand
that
can
be
met
and
that
it's
worth
Ohio
investing.
I
We
work
really
closely
with
Scottish
development
international
here
the
N
word
investment
part
of
Scottish
government
and
they
are
clearly
working
with
local
authorities
to
try
and
make
that
bridge
between
investors
and
opportunities.
So
it's
up
to
the
local
authority
to
identify
land
and
make
it
easy
for
planners
that
for
the
planners
to
approve
and
then
the
investors
to
come
on
board,
but
I
think
if
we
can
identify
real
demand
from
real
data
and
and
bring
that
evidence
to
the
table,
then
that's
going
to
meet
the
biggest
difference.
I
A
Thank
you
very
much.
My
food
we're
going
to
have
to
draw
in
Manchester
cause
because
Parliament's
about
to
certain
plenary
session,
and
the
committee
cannot
sit
at
the
same
time
as
a
premie
session
of
Parliament
but
say
you
certainly
covered
a
lot
and
in
terms
of
what
your
priorities
are
for
the
sector.