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A
Good
morning
and
welcome
to
the
22nd
meeting
of
the
committee
in
2018,
I'd
like
to
remind
members
and
the
public
to
turn
off
their
mobile
phones
and
any
members
using
electronic
devices
to
access
committee
papers
should
please
ensure
that
they're
switched
to
silent,
and
today
we
have
received
apologies
from
Toby
Scott
MSP.
The
first
item
of
the
agenda
is
a
declaration
of
interests.
A
Annabel
Ewing
and
Kenneth
Gibson
were
appointed
to
the
police,
Monica
John
and
Richard
locket,
respectively,
as
members
of
the
culture,
tourism
and
External
Affairs
Committee
and
I'd
like
to
welcome
both
Kenneth
and
Annabel
to
the
committee.
I
now
invite
Annabel
to
declare
any
interest
relevant
to
the
amount
of
this
committee.
Any.
B
A
A
We
now
move
on
to
our
second
item
of
business
today,
which
is
an
evidence
session
with
Koslow
and
local
authority
representatives
on
proposals
to
introduce
a
transient
visitor
levy,
perhaps
better
known
as
of
tutors
tax
in
Scotland,
and
this
is
the
committee's
first
evidence
session
on
the
transient
visitor
levy
and
I
would
like
to
place
on
record
that
we
will
be
having
a
father
evidence
session
with
representatives
of
the
tourist
industry
in
due
course.
So
I'd
like
to
welcome
my
witnesses
today,
councillor
Gil
McGreggor.
That
is
also
spokesperson
for
cos.
A
Wa
councillor
bill
Albin,
the
convener
of
Highland
Council
case,
while
ad
McVie,
the
leader
of
the
city
of
Edinburgh
Council
and
councillor
Jenny
Lang,
the
coup
leader
of
Aberdeen
City
Council.
Thank
you
for
coming
to
speak
to
us
today
and
could
I
ask
you
very
briefly
to
see
whether
in
perhaps
just
in
a
couple
of
sentences
before
we
get
into
the
detail,
whether
you
support
our
chanting,
visitor
levy
start
with
you,
you.
D
F
You
M
Edinburgh
said
a
long-standing
commitment
to
transit
result
living
I'd
like
to
think
that
my
administration
last
a
years
taken,
our
it's
likely
more
business
case,
led
approach,
probably
from
what
was
traditionally
a
campaigning
approach.
So
our
council
has
had
a
long-standing
support
for
that
in
our
program
and
just
in
the
last
a
few
months,
the
council
and
overwhelmingly
passed
paper
in
principle
in
support
of
it
and
with
our
process
to
take
it
forward.
Thank.
G
You
thank
you
and
Aberdeen.
Lake
Edinburgh
has
been
looking
at
this
for
some
time.
We
had
it
within
our
statement
of
intent
when
we
went
into
negotiations
with
Scottish
and
UK
government's
back
in
2015
and
we've
obviously
brought
forward
reports
in
various
aspects
to
council
I.
Don't
what
that
may
look
like
going
forward
and
we
brought
two
into
Scottish
cities
alliance
as
well,
and
you
know,
we've
obviously
had
other
councils
come
on
board
and
cities
in
relation
to
that
going
forward.
Okay,
thanks.
A
Thanks
very
much
for
that
and
I'd
like
to
take
this
opportunity
to
thank
those
of
you
have
submitted
written
evidence
to
the
committee,
which
is
very
useful
and
can
I
ask
why
a
transient
visitor
levy
in
your
view
is
needed,
how
much
it
would
raise
and
how
practically
it
could
be
levied
there.
Perhaps
we
could
start
with
you
councillor
McVie
yeah,.
F
Absolutely,
and
in
terms
of
the
scale
of
funding,
it's
probably
something
in
Edinburgh
Ski,
sabato
and
11
million
pounds
now
and
a
grand
scheme
of
a
billion
pound
budget.
That
may
not
seem
like
a
lot,
but
when
you
think
of
another
key
plate,
if
you're
trying
to
do
build,
20,000,
affordable
homes
and
you
think
of
the
case
of
tax
revenue,
that's
going
to
bring
it's
going
to
bring
something
like
20
to
25
million,
so
put
into
context
a
transit
visitor
levy
against
building
20,000
homes
and
the
case
of
tax
revenue.
From
that.
F
Actually
it
starts
to
look
like
a
significant
amount
of
money
in
the
crucial
thing
for
in,
but
is
that
it's
additional
it's
additional
funds
to
go
towards
the
additional
pressures,
the
additional
cost
additional
aspirations
of
our
city
in
regards
to
to
tourism
and
the
hospitality
sector
in
particular,
because
we
have
a
problem.
One
of
those
vibrant
hospitality
sectors
anywhere
on
the
planet
is
a
fantastic
place,
successful
thing
and
its
sustained
by
a
fantastically
successful
tourism
industry,
but
we'd
be
kidding
ourselves
if
we
said
that
didn't
come
with
significant
pressures
and
the
cost
of
those
pressures.
F
One
half
a
million
pounds,
for
example,
just
to
keep
the
city
center
clean
and
Ben's
empty
during
the
summer
period,
the
millions
of
pounds
that
we
put
into
supporting
the
festivals
through
that
period.
There
are
additional
pressures
that
come
with
it
and
for
us
it
would
be
I,
think,
fairly,
crass
and
fairly
wrong
to
start
making
budget
decisions
around
continuing
that
support
to
enable
us
to
continue
that
growth
continue
that
success
against
decisions
Anita
such
as
health
and
social
care
and
education
I.
Just
don't
think
that
would
be
appropriate.
F
G
I
think,
from
our
perspective,
when
we
look
at
Edinburgh
and
indeed
probably
Highlands
as
well,
they
are
looking
to
sustain
the
to
tourism.
That
they've
already
got
I.
Think
in
Aberdeen
were
slightly
different
because
we're
looking
to
build
up
our
leisure
of
Judaism
and
we
have
very
much
I,
don't
air
hotel,
occupancy
and
things
in
the
past
it's
been
dominated
by
oil
and
gas,
they've,
obviously
blocked
booked,
and
when
we
saw
the
downturn,
we
saw
the
reduction
in
our
occupancy
rates.
So
we
were
looking
as
part
of
our
regional
economic
strategy
to
diversify
your
economy.
G
You
wouldn't
be
surprised
by
that
and
tourism,
as
I
mean
element
of
that,
so
it
is
about
us
trying
to
build
up
that
leisure
tourism
aspect.
Now,
what
we've
seen
is
we
need
to
invest
and
I.
Think
we've
done
as
a
local
authority.
You
know,
we've
we've
led
the
way
we've
had
major
investment
in
infrastructure,
I'm
thinking
about
our
30
million
in
the
art
gallery.
G
So
we
have
to
look
for
innovative
ways
in
which
we
can
make
sure
that
that
investment
continues
in
the
city
of
Aberdeen
to
support
that
sector
than
others.
So,
from
our
perspective,
we
believe
that
this
is
a
way
that
locally
we
can,
you
know,
raise
revenue
which
can
then
be
ring-fenced
and
actually
invested
in
the
areas
that
will
help
us
to
support
that
measure
to
lism
going
forward.
E
Well,
I
think,
basically
and
well,
we
may
have
a
slightly
different
approach
to
some
of
the
major
cities
and
we
still
have
the
same
sort
of
problems.
Obviously
we
haven't
formally
yet
can
set
up
whether
we
should
have
a
transient
business
or
not,
and
but
there
is
massive
cross-party
support
and
throughout
the
Heylin
council
chamber,
for
the
introduction
of
what
everyone
know
cause
a
tourist
tax.
But
tourism
is
our
main
industry.
Unlike
other
areas
of
Scotland,
tourism
brings
1.2
billion
pounds
per
to
Highland.
E
We
get
six
million
visitors
and
and
and
supports
20,000
jobs,
but
the
less
increase
you
know
it
brings
pressures
on
our
infrastructure,
including
roads,
parking
public
toilets
a
time
when
cultural
resources
are
challenging.
It's
therefore
difficult
to
sustain
2000
funding
or,
alongside
the
breadth
of
essential
services
that
cancel
hostage
as
to
deliver
you,
children's
education,
etc,
etc.
We
can't
spend
money
just
on
tourism
and
in
preference
to
something
else.
E
You
know
our
infrastructure
is
deteriorating
and
it
all
lead
to
a
negative
impression
and
now,
of
course,
reputational
damage
the
tourism
sectors
highly
competitive
and
it
needs
to
improve
constantly
and
just
to
keep
pace
with
the
rest
of
Europe.
You
know
we
face
similar
issues
to
the
rest
of
Scotland,
but
in
in
the
cities
of
Scotland
50%
of
people
come
to
look
at
the
view
in
Highland
is
87
percent.
E
So
it's
really
as
equate
a
massive
difference
over
our
similarities,
new
facilities
that
we
provide,
such
as
parking,
etc
etc,
are
exacerbated
by
the
tourists
and
in
some
areas
you
know
there
are
more
tourist
traffic
on
our
roads
than
there
are
residents,
and
that
makes
an
immense
difference.
So
what
happens
is
affect
the
local
residents
are
actually
paying
for
the
tourists
and
yet
who
are
not
providing
us
with
the
income.
E
You
know
we
believe
we
need
to
increase
sustainable
resources
and
move
to
a
more
dependable,
long-term
solution
for
funding
which
supports
of
tourism
sector
and
make
a
high
higher
quality
versity
experience.
Otherwise
we
run
the
risk
that
vegetables
just
won't
come
back.
No
cancer
budgets
are
so
constrained.
Now
the
only
way
of
delivering
additional
resources,
a
tilaka
alternative
means
of
funding.
First,
in
many
other
countries
around
Europe
charge
the
visitor
lever
levy.
Just
a
few
days
ago,
in
Paris
I
paid
two
euros.
Fifty
three
per
person
per
mate.
Did
it's
not
me
going
there?
E
E
We
have
some
of
the
best
food
in
the
world
of
the
best
accommodation
and
the
most
magnificent
scenery,
but
all
that
can
come
to
nothing
if
the
tourists
wrecks
pools
of
weil
office
as
car
and
or
has
to
go
and
put
the
toilet
behind
a
bush
and
just
to
conclude
its
the
growth
and
tourism
is
very,
very
welcome,
but
we're
looking
for
some
other
way
of
funding
it.
Thank.
A
You
very
much
taking
on
those
points
and
the
sector
of
the
to
tourism
sector
has
made
the
point.
Yes,
of
course,
there
is
a
great
success
story,
but
we
have
to
be
careful
of
biting
the
hand
that
feeds
us
and
the
point
that
they
make
is
that
the
level
of
that
charged
in
the
UK
is
higher
than
other
countries.
So,
therefore,
the
tax
burden
on
their
industry
would
be
far
greater
if
transient
visitor
levy
was
imposed.
D
He
thing
with
this
is
that
we
all
consult
with
all
stakeholders
and
I
think
the
to
this
tourism
industry
are
engaging
very
strongly,
certainly
with
Edinburgh,
Aberdeen
and
Island,
and
and
we
need
to
take
them
with
us
and
allow
them
to
appreciate
the
benefits
that
could
come
from
this
I
think
the
reality
is
that
it
it's
very
much
about
local
consultation.
So
there
is
not
going
to
be
one
size
that
fits
all
it's
going
to
cover
all
32
local
authorities.
D
But
that's
part
of
the
conversation
we're
in
the
early
stages
of
the
conversation.
A
lot
of
work
has
been
done
behind
the
scenes,
and
now
we
need
to
go
out
and
and
really
consult
with
everybody,
but
it
has
to
be
local
consultation
done
on
a
Council
by
council
basis,
because
this
is
not
a
one.
Size
fits
all.
Okay,.
H
Thank
you.
Can
you
know
and
katharine
mcphee
said
the
denied
areas
threaten
the
vibrancy
of
tourism
with
an
Edinburgh,
and
we
can't
see
tourism
being
a
success
story
in
Scotland
at
the
moment
was
increased
for
that
our
numbers
I
know,
and
the
local
authorities
have
done
quite
a
bit
of
research
and
two
European
comparisons
and
I.
Think
the
UK
is
only
one
of
nine
countries
that
don't
have
a
to
does
tax
out
of
the
u-20
eat.
H
Do
you
have
any
evidence
of
the
where
there's
been
a
positive
or
a
negative
impact
at
all
on
any
countries
or
cities
that
have
introduced
to
this
tax
and
then
how
would
you
respond
to
John
McAlpin
the
convener,
to
touch
on
representation
apart
from
the
tourism
alliance?
How
would
you
respond
to
concerns
that
the
tourism
tax
would
have
a
negative
impact
on
visitor
numbers?
Do
you
think
that's
a
justifiable
concern.
I.
F
Think
it's
a
justifiable
concern
for
the
industry.
I
think
it's
a
concern
that
it's
easily
overcome
and
when
we've
looked
impact
post
introduction
in
other
areas,
the
impact
is
negligible.
You're
talking
low
single-digit,
their
percentages,
an
increase
in
terms
of
demand.
Now,
when
you
take
a
city
like
Edinburgh
and
our
tutor
some
sectors
growing
each
year,
the
number
of
people
going
through
the
airport
is
growing.
Each
year
the
number
of
people
wanting
to
stay
in
hotels
is
growing
each
year,
so
I'm
as
part
of
our
engagement
with
industry.
F
One
of
the
things
we
did
was
add
a
round
table
and
one
personal
industry
who's
a
revenue
manager
said
we
need
to
be
careful
about
the
timing
of
this,
because
obviously
we
are
we're
down
this
year
from
last
year.
Now,
when
we
pushed
that
a
bit
more
of
what
she
meant
was
the
growth
she
was
experiencing
in
her
room
occupancy
and
her
room
race
had
slowed,
she
wasn't
saying
they
were
dying.
They
were
saying
the
growth
is
down.
F
The
growth
rate
is
down
now
any
impact
of
low
digits,
low,
single
digits
in
terms
of
Tears
numbers
and
then
bra
be
absorbed
easily
with
one
year's
growth
and
that's
what
we're
talking
about
and
actually
I
would
make
the
argument
very
very
strongly
that
the
11
million
pounds
of
it
is
around
11
million
pounds
that
we
end
up.
Investing
will
go
to
not
only
and
came
to
balance
that
but
sustain
that
level
of
success,
because
the
threat
to
the
to
tourism
industry
in
Edinburgh
is
not
a
transient.
F
There's
a
levy
or
a
couple
of
pounds,
threat
to
the
to
tourism
industry
and
in,
but
is
that,
frankly,
the
city
gets
to
the
point
that
the
city
starts.
Taking
policy
decisions
to
Train
mitigate
the
impact,
not
in
terms
of
sustaining
that
success
in
mitigating
the
impact
of
it
that
way,
but
mitigating
the
impact
of
it
by
looking
at
the
numbers,
and
that
for
me,
as
someone
who
doggedly
supports
the
industry
in
Edinburgh,
is
my
main
concern.
I
can.
H
Ask
Jenny
lying
because
Jenny
described
a
different
set
of
circumstances
in
Aberdeen
about
trying
to
grow
the
tourism
sector,
and
but
the
solution
you're
both
arguing
for
is
the
same.
So
how
would
you,
how
does
the
tourism
tax
help
with
growing
numbers
when
you're
not
experiencing
the
same,
maybe
pleasures
from
two
days
on
numbers
as
as
Edinburgh
I
mean.
G
I
think
it's
an
I
mean
it's
the
argument
around
there.
It's
a
devolve,
ofthe
powers
and
what
will
happen
locally
may
vary
depending
on
what
your
circumstances
are,
but
as
far
as
our
burden
goes-
and
you
know,
I
mentioned
there
about
the
switch
that
we've
heard
very
much
from
the
business
to
dust
to
the
leisure
of
tourist
aspect
and
particularly
their
dominance
of
oil
and
gas,
and
we've
seen
a
rapid
reduction
in
our
room
rates
nightly
rates
already,
and
so.
G
In
actual
fact,
we
are
much
more
competitive
now
than
we
had
been
previously,
but
I
think
we
are
managing
to
attract
and
grow
economically
and
and
the
sector
to
increase,
because
we're
making
that
investment
around
the
to
tourism,
offering
now,
whether
that's
about
marketing
the
place
and
what's
an
offer
or
whether
it's
about
the
actual
investment
in
the
infrastructure
and
indeed
the
events
that
will
attract
people.
But
we
have
to
raise
that
revenue
in
the
first
place
now.
My
concern
as
err
is
I,
think
with
across
the
table.
G
G
So
there
has
to
be
a
local
flexibility,
I
would
say,
and
it's
the
way
that
argument
around
evolving
of
powers
and
the
local
accountability
and
how
those
monies
are
spent
and
I
think
this
is
just
one
aspect
of
it
and
that's
why
it
featured
very
much
in
our
statement
of
intent
when
we,
when
we
put
that
forward
around
the
city
deal
was,
can
we
provide
the
levers
for
for
local
government
in
order
for
them
to
stimulate
economic
growth
going
forward?
Because
that's
what
will
allow
cities
like
Aberdeen
and
others
to
be
buoyant
in
the
future?
A
C
Basically
was
a
question
looking
at
the
way
that
les
impacts
across
Scotland
because
and
the
cause
of
submission
that
says
they
you've
said
and
I
quote,
we
need
to
be
innovative
about
funding
for
public
services.
It
looks
like
this
is
additional
money
for
public
services.
You
see
this
is
not
a
replacement
for
existing
funding.
We'll
provide
an
important
addition
ality
over
and
above
existing
funding
streams,
and
then
paragraph
four
you
see,
non-domestic
rates
are
not
devolved
to
local
level.
C
No
non-domestic
rates
were
pooled
in
Scotland,
because
cities
like
Edinburgh
and
Glasgow
benefit
to
disproportionately
families
and
people
from,
for
example,
Glasgow,
and
you
know,
Enver
clade,
Northey
it
Northey
of
Chenonceau
and
and
spent
the
money
in
Glasgow.
It
was
decided
to
pull
them,
so
the
those
resources
could
be
more
evenly
spread.
C
This
Shabbat
tourism,
I
think,
is
something
which
him
as
me
touched
on
so
from
any
of
the
submissions,
as
some
local
authorities
such
as,
for
example,
Highland
gallery,
Aberdeen
will
probably
benefit
significantly,
but
well,
not
lilac
sure
will
Western
Barroso
work
like
mine,
sure
and
in
this
quickly
a
disproportion
in
terms
of
the
resources
available
to
some
councils.
Relative
to
others,
so
I'm
wondering
whether
or
not
I'm,
pretty
sure,
I
know
the
answer.
C
This
question,
whether
you
feel
like
non-domestic
rates,
there
should
be
an
element
of
pooling
or
or
indeed-
and
you
take
the
view
that
well,
you
know
the
issues
in
you
know
of
them.
You
know
congestion,
for
example,
and
in
for
Augustus
or
any
grass
market
iced
tea
and
for
every
M
local
authorities
available,
for
we
should
keep
all
that
is
all
the
revenue,
because
it
seems
to
me
that
it
doesn't
provide
much
flexibility
for
some
councils
only
for
the
ones
where
that
was
already
our
share
two
distinctly
coming
in.
D
The
principle
of
this
is
to
enable
them
to
offset
some
of
the
premier
that
the
pressures
they
have
as
a
consequence
of
Judaism
and
I
think
it's
incredibly
important
that
locally
local
leaders,
local
communities
are
able
to
make
that
decision
to
raise
additional
income,
which
can
then
be
spent
directly
back
out
in
their
communities
to
enhance
the
tourist
experience
and
the
other
areas,
probably
circa,
25,
plus
local
authorities.
It
may
never
be
implemented
never,
but
we
need
to
have
the
local
power
to
implement
it
if
it
would
work
for
a
local
area.
D
D
C
Not
about
whether
it'll
work
is
whether
or
not
the
tourists
actually
coming
up
that
I'll
actually
make
it.
What
can
mean
I
mean?
The
point
I
was
trying
to
make
is
that
there
so
increase
the
disproportionality
we
already
have
with
and
Scott
between
prosperous
healers
and
less
prosperous
areas,
and
that's
why
I
was
just
wondering
whether
or
not
pooling
with
mid
perhaps
be
a
way
of
resolving
that
to
some
extent,
because
otherwise
some
of
these
won't
be
anything
to
see
that
you
know
I
mean
clearly
a.m.
C
although
those
all
talk
about
pressures
except
and
I,
feel
understand.
I
don't
have
to
walk
up,
you
know
they,
the
Royal
Mail
any
dealer
week.
You
can
see
the
number
of
tourists
and
all
right,
you
know.
Sometimes
you
can
t
walk,
must
take
the
infimum
buffett,
new
and
and
it's
cheap,
but
that
is
a
that
is
a
success
and-
and
you
know,
55,000
jobs
had
already
provided
in
in
don't
colossal
amount.
Somebody
comment
yet
but
through
tourism-
and
this
would
surely
you
know
weighed
in
that
gap
between,
for
example,
laden.
C
But
I
love
surrounding
authorities
unless
it
was
sunk
in
feeling
that
say
the
only
point
I
was
trying
to
omit
in
people
from
you
know:
western
bars,
I'm
not
lilac,
show
et
cetera
themselves,
go
on
holiday
in
Edinburgh
and
the
highlands
and
other
parts
of
Scotland
and
already
spend
some
of
their
hard-earned
money
there.
So
I'm
just
wondering
if
that's
something
that
would
be
perhaps
given
further
consideration.
F
It's
a
useful
question,
and
particularly
in
relation
to
35,000
jobs.
I
wanted
to
make
us
civic
point,
because
what
the
industry
has
not
been
good
at
in
Edinburgh
frankly,
is
doing
the
hard
work
in
terms
of
skills
generation,
so
linking
the
communities
that
need
access
to
those
jobs
most
with
the
actually
highly
transient.
What
force
there
is
in
the
economy
and
actually
an
additional
11
million
panes
with
industry,
saying
they
would
love
a
proper
skills
program
that
took
more
local
people
into
to
give
them
a
career
in
the
industry.
F
It's
one
of
the
things
that
we
don't
sort
up
into
discussing,
but
this
is
about
the.
Why
I
think
your
question
really
speaks
to
the
why
we
are
progressing
this.
We're
not
progressing
this
as
n,
but
just
so
that
we
can
get
an
additional
11
million
pounds
in
funding
for
our
local
authority.
We're
progressing
it
because
we
think
that's
the
best
way
of
funding
the
continued
success
of
that.
And
if
we're
gonna
pull
the
revenues,
then
let's
pull
the
costs
and
the
costs
that
are
on
Aiden,
but
in
terms
of
sustaining
that
economy.
F
I
Different
questions
I'll
try
and
keep
them
brief.
Okay,
so
McVeigh
in
your
submission,
you
say
that
local
authorities
should
have
the
power
to
and
discretion
through
his
additional
income
by
levying
tax,
in
addition
to
council
tax
and
non-domestic
rates
on
either
resident
property
owners
or
visitors
in
the
local
authority,
or
if
indiscreet
heirs,
of
that
local
authority,
which
additional
tax
raising
powers
are
you
thinking
about.
F
This
one,
and
but
we
also
have
at
our
program,
for
example,
our
program
and
Edinburgh
our
workplace
parking
levy,
which
we
don't
have
the
ability
to
levy
no,
but
because
of
the
way
Edinburgh
transport
system
is
structured
because
of
the
movements
from
the
north
facility
that
south
east
and
west
that's
something
that
we're
progressing
to
make
sure
people
make
the
right
choices
coming
into
city
to
relieve
traffic
pressures.
It
also
gave
us
the
ability
to
take
space.
F
I
You
just
wanted
to
clarify
that
can
ask
what
the
various
councils
think
they're
going
to
do
with
the
money
11
million
pounds
since
a
relatively
smaller
line
of
money
in
the
grand
scheme
of
things
to
Edinburgh
and
I
suspect,
probably
much
less
and
potentially,
and
take
for
smaller
local
authorities
with
less
tourists.
And
are
you
going
to
a
ring-fence
the
money
to
be
reinvested
back
into
the
tourism
industry
or
be?
Is
it
going
to
be
used
to
build
affordable
homes
or
filling
potholes
other
infrastructure
projects
which
should
be
funded?
I
E
Know
from
from
the
point
of
view
of
Ireland
and
tourism
is
our
main
industry.
We
estimate
that
a
one
person
I
would
generate
roughly
12
million
terms.
Now,
if
we
take
that
as
revenue
funding
as
12
million
pounds
a
year,
if
we
actually
capitalized
it,
that
would
give
us
something:
120
million
pounds
to
spend
em
on
capital
projects,
toilets
car
parks,
roads,
etc,
and
there
are
many
many
things
that
we
would
wish
to
discuss
with
the
public
and
the
industry
as
to
how
we
should
spend
that
money.
And
there
are
our
wide
variety
of
projects.
E
But
basically
the
tourist
uses
the
same
sort
of
facilities
that
the
public
does,
but
yet
the
public
pays,
but
the
tourist
doesn't
now
doesn't
matter
whether
the
tourist
comes
from
Norway
lecture
to
Ireland
or
whether
they
come
from
Spain
or
or
sweat.
So
the
simple
fact
of
waivers
the
provision
of
these
services
cost
money
and
we
have
to
find
a
way
of
making
the
happy
to
come
and
spend
their
money.
And
for
me
it's
as
simple
as
that.
A
G
That
goes
into
different
events,
but
that
money
actually
levers
in
private
investment
as
well,
and
also
investment
from
our
neighbouring
Authority
Aberdeenshire,
and
my
concern
would
be
because
the
particularly
private
investment
is
predicated
on
that
investment
being
made
by
the
local
authorities.
So
it's
very
important
to
us.
You
know,
particularly
as
our
budgets
get
tighter,
that
we
have
that
money
available
in
order
to
invest
in
those
areas,
because
it
wouldn't
just
be
the
local
government
investment
that
could
be
lost.
It
could
be
the
investment
coming
from
the
private
sector
as
well.
Only.
I
There's
some
disparity
around
how
each
individual
council
would
look
to
spend
that
money.
You
know
reinvesting
it
back
into
promoting
the
area,
for
example,
and
to
marketing
schemes.
That
sounds
like
a
very
positive
one,
using
it
to
reverse
closures
of
public
toilets
or
fix
roads,
which
one
could
suggest
should
be
being
done
anyway
from
from
the
existing
budgets
or
asking
for
more
budget
elsewhere.
The
idea
that
the
tourist
doesn't
pay
for
these
things
well,
I.
Think
in
your
case,
then,
you
said
it
brings
over
a
billion
pounds
of
revenue
from
tourism
into
into
the
area.
E
Think,
there's
no
doubt
about
it
that
the
tourist
does
bring
additional
income.
It
brings
additional
income
to
tourist
operators,
etc.
However,
what
it
doesn't
do
is
bring
additional
income
to
local
authority
to
provide
the
services
that
we
provide
for
the
tourists.
You
know
there
are
areas
for
an
inhalant,
for
example,
the
north
cost
500,
the
famous
Roderick,
which
has
seen
an
exponential
increase
in
the
number
of
visitors.
Am
Highland
Council
are
responsible
for
many
maintaining
that
route
and
they're.
I
Maybe
perhaps
find
a
question,
and
it's
no
huge
surprise
that
if
you
ask
a
local
authority,
would
you
like
an
additional
taxation
power
to
generate
more
revenue?
The
answer
is:
yes,
not
hugely
surprised
to
hear
that,
however,
the
US
business,
especially
small
businesses,
who
are
actually
generating
revenue
from
tourism,
they
seem
to
be
hugely
against
this
prospect.
Two-Thirds
of
respondents
to
an
FSB
survey
said
they
would
be
negative
to
their
business
and
3/4
said
it
would
have
a
not
just
a
negative
effect
in
their
business,
but
in
the
general
local
economy.
F
Me
responding
because
we've
done
quite
a
lot
work
with
the
industry
and
actually
and
we've
had
a
very
mixed
bag
of
comments.
Even
today
we
are
doing
our
station
with
specific
with
the
industry,
including
the
Federation
of
Small
Business,
including
the
Association
of
self
caterers,
for
example,
on
the
mechanism
that
we
would
use,
because
what
we
heard
very
clearly
from
business
was
actually
if
they,
if
the
amount
that's
charged,
is
fairly
small
and
it's
easy
to
administer,
then
a
lot
of
the
problems
that
some
of
the
businesses
fear
actually
disappear.
F
So
one
of
the
things
we're
doing
right
now
is
literally
today
our
polish
officers
are
working
with
industry
to
see.
Well,
how
do
you
want
it
based
administered?
What's
easiest
for
your
business,
so
that
administrative
burden
is
at
an
absolute
minimum
and
just
to
pick
up
on
the
the
FSB
survey
that
that
you
highlighted
one
in
four
businesses
responded
to.
That
said
they
support
it
now.
I
think
that's
a
pretty
good
starting
point.
When
you
ask
any
business,
do
you
want
to
pay
more
tax?
F
Case
a
yeses
is
quite
a
high
rate
of
businesses
willing
to
pay
more
and
just
in
the
research
that
we've
published
today
from
our
marketing
Aidan
brown
body
and
a
vast
majority
of
tourists
I
actually
see
they
would
be
happy
to
pay
the
charge
an
Edinburgh.
No,
it's
not
often
you
ask
individuals
would
be
willing
to
pay
more
tax
and
they
respond.
Yes,
especially
tourists
who
are
here
for
couple
of
days
a
week
etc.
F
But
those
people
have
responded.
An
affirmative
to
say,
they'd,
be
happy
to
Pierre
in
terms
of
priorities,
because
I
think
it
is
an
important
point
to
mention
things
like
roads
and
and
public
toilets.
It's
important
to
recognize
that
the
priorities
for
local
authorities
in
terms
of
residents
and
sustaining
our
public
services
could
be
different
for
sustaining
and
an
investing
in
our
to
desist
economies
and
in
Edinburgh
we
are
looking
at
obviously
some
financial
challenges.
F
Everyone
is
and
the
decisions
are
being
motivated
by
our
guiding
principles
and
our
guiding
principles
are
an
inclusive,
fair
economy
that
works
for
our
communities
now.
Obviously,
the
success
of
tourism
is
a
huge
part
in
that,
but
it's
very
difficult
as
a
local
authority
to
balance
sustained
investment
for
mass
availability
of
high-quality
public
toilets,
for
example,
and
social
care
services.
A
J
Here
and
I
feel,
like
we've,
almost
skipped
a
stage
in
this
debate,
because
that
the
first
stage
is
about
the
principle
of,
as
this
appear,
that
local
authorities
should
have
the
ability
to
exercise
before
we
have
a
debate
about.
Not
any
individual
authority
should
exercise
it,
but
given
that
we're
the
tourism
committee,
not
the
local
government
committee,
I
suppose
that
was
inevitable.
So
that
being
said,
canler
woman's
detailed,
the
the
pressures
on
Highland
Council
in
terms
of
roads,
parking,
public,
toilets,
etc.
J
F
Mean
yes,
absolutely
in
terms
of
place
making
in
terms
of
making
our
city
just
function,
the
way
it
should
and
managing
that
number
of
people
takes
an
incredible
amount
of
effort,
not
all
that
is
seen
not
all
that's
particularly
visible,
but
managing
those
core
services,
the
things
that
you
don't
notice
until
the
benders
massively
overflowing,
for
example,
at
the
bit
of
M
public
realm
control
that
you
don't
really
realize
until
you're
absolutely
swamped
with
pedestrians
of
a
pavement.
This
one
a
half
metres
wide.
F
These
are
the
things
that
I
think
we
need
to
provide
additional
and
support
to,
and
if
we
are
going
to
continue
to
grow
and
sustain
this
industry
grow
and
sustain
our
tourist
economy.
These
are
the
things
that
we
need.
Additional
revenue
to
put
towards
a
lot
of
that
is
quite
intangible.
It's
quite
difficult
to
it's.
A
difficult,
sale
and
I
appreciate
it's
a
difficult
sale
to
the
industry
as
well,
but
it's
absolutely
crucial
if
we're
going
to
talk
about
increasing
the
capacity
of
the
city.
F
To
give
you
just
one
example:
in
our
budget
last
year
we
put
a
million
pounds
in
capital
to
a
new
venue
in
Leith
theatre
and
the
motivation
for
that
was
to
create
a
vibrant
cultural
centre.
Just
happened
to
be
in
my
ward,
but
it
was
to
create
a
new
additional,
vibrant
and
cultural
center.
This
year
an
international
festival
be
put
on
a
programme
there
which
spread
they
are
offering
and
their
culture
offering
through
our
city.
No,
that's
really
helpful
I.
F
So
if
you're
going
to
manage
to
grow
your
Tudors
numbers
to
continue
to
grow
that
level
of
success,
it's
helpful
to
spread
that
impact
across
the
city,
but
that
will
take
a
additional
investment.
To
do.
I
will
take
additional
capital,
investment
and
additional
venues,
and
it
will
take
additional
revenue,
investment
to
hope
base.
You
then
manage
that
spread
of
visitor
population,
so
there
are
a
whole
host
of
costs
and
some
of
them
are
quite
acute.
F
Some
of
them
are
not
particularly
visible,
but
there's
a
whole
host
of
things
and
Ed,
but
I
would
say,
and
some
of
them
are
the
same.
You
know
I,
don't
anticipate
necessarily
the
roads
of
Aden,
but
I've
been
the
first
thing
that
this
revenue
is
spent
on,
but
there
may
be
a
cute
alias
where
the
industry
is
saying.
This
is
what
we
want
you
to
spend
on
for
the
good
of
x
and
y,
and
it
will
be
a
very
business
and
led
business
case
leds
decision
making
process.
Thank.
J
You
and
just
move
on
to
the
mechanism
somewhat,
there's
unique
challenges
and
some
more
authority
at
Highland
and
Edinboro
are
very
good
examples
of
short-term
way.
It's
the
Airbnb
kind
of
model.
How
would
you
invest
a
mechanism
for
a
collection
that
ensures
that
those
are
visiting
your
areas
using
short-term
rates
and
this
more
informal
economy
and
are
still
paying
at
the
same
rate
as
someone
who
would
use
a
traditional
hotel
or
B&B
I.
F
Mean
it's
it's
worth
saying:
we've
engaged
directly
with
Airbnb
who
are
supportive
of
what
we're
trying
to
do.
They
make
up
more
than
50
percent
of
the
market
in
Edinburgh,
so
they
have
more
than
50%
of
the
control
and
they
would
be
happy
to
apply
a
transient
facility.
I
think
it
should
be
applied
regulatory
to
the
industry
so
that
it's
not
reliant
on
urban
peace
agreed.
F
Well,
although
we're
very
pleased
to
have
the
goodwill
and
the
impact
on
the
industry
will
be
absolutely
negligible
and
very
easy
to
control
because
it
can
be
controlled
through
and
particularly
the
the
booking
platforms,
but
I
think
that
has
to
be
done
on
a
regulatory
basis
and
I
should
say.
Airbnb
are
also
taking
part
in
our
discussion
today.
As
we're
discussing
the
mechanism.
K
Thank
you
can
being
I
can
adjust
before
we
get
to
more
questions.
Mr.
Bob
and
here's
our
problem,
so
do
you
you
mentioned
so
a
woman.
You
mentioned
something:
she
won't
so
called
a
gardener,
North,
Course
500
and
the
additional
level
of
traffic
and
also
and
tourists.
The
additional
revenue
that
comes
under
does
that
actually
cover
the
cost
of
the
maintenance
or
Tharpe
of
take.
Lord
no.
E
It
doesn't,
there
is
no
contribution
towards
the
cost
of
the
additional
road.
There
is
obviously
direct
taxation.
Well,
the
v88
settle
will
come
to
the
central
government,
but
there
is
no
direct
and
put
due
to
the
additional
traffic.
Unlike
unfortunately,
some
countries,
we,
we
don't
have
a
tax
on
touristy
to
use
our
roads.
So.
E
It's
a
fantastic
economic
benefit,
I
know
and
I
must
stress,
you
know
another
placer
Scotland
you,
you
have
massive
industries
and
inhalants.
Our
massive
industry
is
tourism,
but
I
think
the
one
thing.
If
you
just
take
that
specific
route,
you
could
have,
for
example,
a
small
village
of
hundred
or
so
people,
but
it's
right
next
to
our
a
massive
tourist
visitor
center,
but
you
wouldn't
build
a
toilet
for
a
hundred
and
fifty
or
200
people,
but
you
will
build
one
or
keep
one
open
for
50,000
to
nests.
So
it's
there
has
to
be
some
way.
K
Certainly,
the
discussion
today
has
been
about
hotel
beds.
I
represent,
you
know,
can
unblock
wait,
and
certainly
recent
years
that
has
been
an
interesting
number
of
cruise
ships
of
Cuban
and
also
the
for
common
relationships.
They
don't
stay
over
mate.
So
in
terms
of
has
a
blend
discussion
to
thank
cause
regarding
in
terms
of
something
any
type
of
mechanism
to
go
forward.
Could
it
be
considered
that
any
anyone
who
does
embarks
on
a
cruise
ship,
but
they
could
pay
a
particular
tourism
tax
or
as
compared
to
a
parent
dollar,
on
hotel
bed?
Thank.
D
You
at
the
moment,
obviously,
we
focused
on
local
authorities.
We've
done
a
lot
of
legwork
and
an
awful
lot
of
consultation
to
get
to
this
stage
again
we're
going
back
to
the
principle
of
local
discretion.
So
what
would
suits
Edinburgh,
which
may
be
rim
based
and
and
and
that
would
be
the
model
they
would
use.
It
would
be
down
to
your
local
idiots
and
maybe
look
at
another
model
that
would
apply
to
your
cruise
ships
coming
in
and
I.
Think
that
the
point
here
is
it's
about
local
discretion.
D
It's
about
local
people,
making
local
decisions
for
the
betterment
of
their
area,
and
we
certainly
have
a
similar
issue
on
Orkney
as
well
and
I.
Think
that
that's
the
beauty
of
something
which
isn't
set
in
stone
that
all
32
local
authorities
can
do
something
or
they
can
do
nothing
and-
and
you
are
not
going
to
have
a
model
for
Aberdeen.
That
is
exactly
the
same
as
Edinburgh
so
certainly
nudity.
D
If
there's
a
pressure
to
cruise
ships,
that's
potentially
something
that
your
local
council
could
look
at
and
develop
and
consult
on
and
develop
further
if
required,
and
if
not,
we
wouldn't
implement
it.
So
I
think
you
know
we
have
pressures
inland
and
here
around
the
coast,
but
the
key
thing
here
is
giving
local
people
the
discretion
to
raise
income
to
deal
with
those
pressures
as
is
fit
for
that
area.
I.
G
Mean
it's
just
to
reiterate
what
Gail
was
said.
There
I
think
that's
where
it's
very
important
about
the
local
flexibility,
because
I
think
there
will
be
different
circumstances
for
different
places
and
I
do
know
whether
you
know
we
are,
but
we've
currently
got
a
large
harbor
and
infrastructural
investment
going
ahead
in
Aberdeen,
which
is
with
the
plain
intention
or
one
of
the
prime
intentions
and
to
bring
in
cruise
ships
for
the
first
time
providing
that
deepwater.
But
we're
obviously
looking
at
that
and
how
we
shape
up
that
going
forward.
G
Certainly
not
that
I
feel
will
have
an
impact
on
the
economic
growth
of
my
city
in
the
region,
and
I
won't
be
bringing
anything
forward
that
I,
don't
feel
can't
be
fully
embraced
by
business
and
indeed
residents
in
the
city
and
because
we
won't
need
to
be
accountable
to
them
moving
forward.
So
it's
about
having
the
power
in
which
to
go
forward
with
those
negotiations
and
then
shape
things
up
that
suit
your
local
economy,
certainly.
K
Just
to
be
clear,
there
are
no
pressures
in
terms
of
the
cruise
ships
coming
in
I
warmly
welcome
them.
Where
my
sessions
officers,
we
tend
to
be
a
really
busy
office
when
the
ship
comes
on,
because
it's
just
as
an
ideal
location
for
and
more
than
commended
at
all,
but
just
in
terms
of
the
in
terms
of
our
offer
and
also
any
revenue
that
could
be
generated,
I
suspect
to
know
what
the
answers
can
be
from
all
four
of
unis.
But
the
Ujjain
leave
that
local
authorities
are
the
best
body
to
then
invest.
K
Our
money
could
not
actually
go
to
maybe
idml
or
some
other
or
some
other
organization
within
a
particle
or
particular
area.
I
shall
invest
and
the
tourism
take
and
and
the
tourism
offer,
because
I
sent
those
comments
from
the
Jim
McLean
ale
they're
just
recovering
some
of
the
investment
it
could
be
seen.
Anything
could
then
be
bashed
up
a
score
likely
soon
to
help
tourism,
whether
it's
toilets,
whether
it's
roads
first,
whatever
else
so
our
local
authorities
really
impartial
enough
to
make
sure
that
money
is
invested
and
the
tourism
awful
I.
D
Think
local
authorities
understand
you
know
with
Hugh's
success
where
the
pressures
are
lying
at
the
movement
and
I
think
it's
usually
incumbent
on
them
to
deal
with
it
as
well.
There
are
authorities
who
are
looking
at
perhaps
having
an
overarching
board
or
body
to
dispatch
those
funds
I'll.
Let
my
colleagues
from
Edinburgh
in
Aberdeen,
because
I
think
you've
done
work
on
the
speak
again.
D
It
is
and
actually
do
something
to
help
them
flourish,
bring
in
a
little
bit
of
additional
income
and
then
make
sure
at
local
level,
because,
yes,
we
do
know
best
at
local
level
that
that
money
is
spent
where
it
absolutely
needs
to
be
spent.
If
it's
done
from
a
higher
level,
then
I
think
you
get
into
a
situation
where
it
maybe
wouldn't
be
getting
spent
where
it
needs
to
be
spent.
I.
F
Mean
we
have
done
a
lot
of
work
on
the
governance
of
it
and
then
have
concluded
that
the
council
making
that
final
decision
is
the
best
place
for
it
to
say.
And,
however,
we
have
explored
how
we
best
engage
with
key
stakeholders,
the
industry,
the
sector,
to
get
to
get
the
right
actions
and
from
it
and
we've
explored
things
like
sounding
boards
and
using
the
inverters
of
actually
good,
for
example,
as
assignable
for
those
and
for
those
actions.
F
But
to
be
clear
and
why
I
don't
think
the
decision
should
sit
with
a
body
like
that,
rather
than
the
king.
So
many
of
the
pressures
that
come
and
are
certainly
driven
by
the
the
to
tourism,
industry
and
and
the
the
to
the
economy.
But
some
of
the
biggest
effects
are
on
the
residential
population
and
there
will
be
a
balance
and
some
actions
and
all
actions
will
be
about
supporting
and
enhancing
the
success
of
the
tourist
economy.
But
not
all
might
be
exclusively
for
the
to
list.
F
It'll
be
about
relieving
and
address
and
the
pressures
so
that
we
can
continue
to
grow
and
sustain
what
as
an
incredibly
vibrant
part
of
our
economy.
So
the
the
balanced
approach
that
councils
will
take
and
I
think
councils
are
the
best
people
to
understand
where
that
is.
They
will
understand
where,
for
instance,
they
need
to
invest
in
new
areas
of
tourism,
development,
for
example,
and
think
of
embrace
an
example
around
craigmillar
castle
that
isn't
as
accessible
as
in
castle,
for
example.
F
But
if
we
wanted
to
develop
that
as
a
real
to
tourism
destination
to
spread
that
benefit,
you
might
get
some
vested
interest
from
the
hotels
that
are
in
the
city
center
thinking.
That
might
not
be
the
best
thing
to
do,
but
the
council
would
be
best
placed
to
make
that
decision.
But
ultimately
there
has
to
be
a
strong
input
from
the
industry,
a
strong
input
from
key
stakeholders
to
make
sure
there's
that
voice
very
strongly
held
through
the
process
to
ensure
us
ultimately
additional
funding
for
additional
purposes
by
exactly
what
that
was
tailored
to
I.
B
Morning,
councilors,
thank
you
for
coming
in
I.
Think
we've
been
having
a
very
interesting
discussion.
Now
references
have
been
made
I
think
by
all
of
you
about
engagement,
which
of
course
is
extremely
important,
but
could
I
just
perhaps
quote
from
a
letter
that
the
committee
received
I
believe
yesterday
from
Scottish
tourism,
Alliance
and
UK
hospitality
I'm
sure
this
will
be
available
publicly.
Yes,
you
will
see
this
and
can
I
just
quote
on
the
subject
of
engagement
where
they
say
local
authority
interests
have
thus
far
filled
meaningfully
to
consult
with
the
industry
on
their
proposals.
F
So
I
don't
recognize,
as
I've
said
that
yesterday
I
think
that's
unfortunate
timing
for
them
to
put
that
in
writing,
because
I
did
not
recognize
that
situation
at
all.
Our
door
has
been
absolutely
open.
So
some
of
the
organizations,
for
example
the
association
of
self
caterers,
as
well
as
taking
part
in
a
roundtable
event,
followed
up
with
me
directly
afterwards.
F
F
However,
many
people
from
the
industry
that
will
take
part
in
that
and
help
shape
it
that
requires
the
industry
to
take
part
and
engage
and
where
there
are
people
in
the
industry
who
think
they
can
just
pretend
we
don't
exist,
avoid
engagement
and
therefore
make
all
this
go
away.
By
refusing
to
take
partner,
I
think
is
potentially
quite
an
unfortunate
route
for
some
organizations
to
go
down,
so
we
are
absolutely
keeping
the
door
open.
We
are
doing
as
much
outreach
as
we
can
and
I
should
say.
F
This
process
has
been
the
relight
today
as
much
as
it's
been
open
and
try
to
engage
with
as
many
people
as
possible.
This
has
been
an
informal
process
of
engagement
to
try
and
best
shape
our
proposals.
The
next
phase
is
taking
a
report
to
the
committee
that
I
chair
in
the
council,
which
will
then
lead
out
a
widespread
consultation
in
the
city,
and
that
will
be
looking
at
a
much
more
mass
way
to
engage
with
literally
every
resident.
F
Every
student
wants
to
take
part
in
that
and
every
person
in
the
industry
who
wants
to
directly
have
their
say
on
what
we're
proposing
so
I,
don't
recognize
what
they
have
in
writing
at
all,
and
I
also
think
that
the
process
we
have
lined
out
has
given
plenty
of
opportunity
today
and
will
give
a
really
robust
opportunity
for
engagement.
As
we
start
a
consultation
process
going
forward.
E
This
far
down
the
line
as
Edinburgh
sand
does
not
do
a
bit,
but
but
the
engagement
with
not
just
the
industry,
but
members
of
the
public
and
it's
fundamental
to
the
whole
process.
We
can't
take
this
forward
and
in
any
way,
unless
we
consulted
at
every
possible
level-
and
you
know
our
tourism
working
group-
the
next
proposal
will
be
is
how
we
engage
with
both
industry
and
and
especially
with
members
of
the
public
and
and
s
is
quite
simple
and
we
cannot
progress
unless
we
consult
but
as
as
Adam
said
a
to
me
Street.
E
D
Further
to
that
from
Crossley's
perspective,
obviously
local
authorities
that
we're
working
with
have
done
and,
as
Adam
says,
an
awful
lot
of
the
informal
legwork
if
you
like
and
I
think
that
was
really
important
in
shaping
what
we
took
to
leaders
a
couple
of
months
ago
in
the
mandate
that
we
were
given
to
progress.
This
and
following
the
press
launch
a
couple
of
months
ago.
It's
obviously
ramp
things
up
slightly,
and
it
means
that
we
are
now
going
into
a
far
more
formal
process
of
consultation,
but
just
to
give
reassurances
because
again,
I
don't
recognize.
D
This
and
Khosla
has
met
with
both
those
bodies
over
the
summer
and
they're
both
invited
to
run
table
at
the
end
of
the
month.
So
I
think
where
we've
got
to
up
to
about
June
July
was
a
lot
of
work
that
had
been
done
by
individual
local
authorities.
Kosslyn
now
has
a
mandate
and
with
32
leaders
behind
us
and
we
now
move
into
a
far
more
formal
process
and
ensuring
that
every
stakeholder
is
consulted
along
the
way,
but
we
have
met
with
them
and
were
meeting
with
them
again
at
the
end
of
the
month.
G
We've
obviously
had
informal
discussions
and
meetings
with
the
local
representatives
of
the
different
bodies.
I
have
to
see
it's
more
positive
than
we're
seeing
coming
from
the
national
level
and
they
obviously
have
come
forward
with
issues
around
where
their
concerns
may
lie
and
I
think
Adam
mentioned
earlier,
that
I'm
the
administration
and
how
that
would
work,
and
obviously,
as
a
local
authority,
we've
gone
away
to
look
at
how
that
could
be
done.
Going
forward
to
try
and
address
those
concerns
with
they've
obviously
raised
the
issue
about
the
amounts
that
might
be
involved.
G
B
Well,
that's
very
interesting
to
hear.
Obviously
there
seem
to
be
certain
differences
in
view,
but
it
is
encouraging,
at
least
to
hear
that
you
feel
determined
that
you
recognize.
Certainly
the
engagement
is
a
key
part
of
this
process.
Can
I
just
ask
very
quickly
to
follow
up
and
in
terms
of
the
nature
of
that
engagement.
B
And
you
know
that
is
to
me
it
seems
an
assumption
of
what
consumer
behavior
will
be,
because
it
is
the
consumer
who
will
pay
the
consumer
levy.
So
I,
just
wonder
in
that
regard.
The
port
has
been
done
already
or
what
they
plan
to
do
to
try
to
get
an
evidence
base
to
this
in
terms
of
consumer
behavior.
B
B
Say
briefly,
community
I
mean
in
that
regard.
You
know
weird.
There
has
already
been
because
it's
all
very
well
to
take
a
survey
of
people
walking
around
in
the
high
street,
but
in
Edinburgh,
but
where
there
already
has
been
the
introduction
of
a
tourist
tax
in
other
countries.
Presumably
they
have
taken
stock
and-
and
there
have
been
analyses
conducted
as
to
what
impact,
if
any
there
has
been
on
their
tourism
numbers.
I,
don't
know
it's
their
work
being
done.
Yes,.
F
F
You
know
fifty
a
night
per
person,
so
it
depends
what
rates
people
have
brought
in,
but
the
cumulative
em
fate
is
in
the
low
single
digits
you're
talking
about
one
to
three
percent,
if
you're
getting
up
to
the
the
higher
re
so
and
that
is
mirrored
by
the
information
that
we've
got
by
asking
people
who
are
visiting
Umbra.
Interestingly,
when
you
ask
them
the
question,
would
they
pay
a
pound
a
night
and
come
back?
You
get
almost
everyone.
F
When
you
start
increasing
that
number,
you
do
start
to
see
it
affecting
demand,
as
you
would
expect
so
people
will,
you
start,
ask
them
which
be
ten
pounds
a
night.
That
number
starts
to
tail
off
and
it
starts
to
very
clearly
have
an
impact
on
people's
decisions
about
with
whether
they
would
stay
there
or
not.
So
there
has
to
be
a
business
case,
led
process
that
says:
where
is
the
price
elasticity
within
this
and
making
sure
that
we
end
up
picking
out
a
number
and
a
regime
which
doesn't
negatively
affect
that
supply?
F
F
Rooms
can
go
and
if
you
walk
down,
South
Bridge
you'll
see
a
hotel
with
our
room,
Andheri,
that's
digitized
and
on
the
front
door,
and
it's
a
very
clear,
visible,
on-street
reminder
of
how
elastic
our
prices,
because
it
can
go
from
around
50
quid
to
around
300
pounds
within
the
space
of
a
couple
of
weeks,
and
it's
very
much
driven
by
where
the
market
is
so
during
the
festival.
People
are
paying
a
lot
of
money
for
fairly
basic
rooms
during
low
season.
F
People
are
paying
not
very
much
or
a
lot
less
for
some
fantastic
rooms
in
Edinburgh.
It's
a
great
place
to
come
to
get
a
bargain.
If
you
want
to
come
in
January
favourites,
oh
and
the
elasticity
of
price
is
absolutely
key
and
we
need
to
stress
test
exactly
what
we're
gonna
picture.
That
n
Burroughs
proposal.
It's
for
a
fairly
low
rate.
People
won't
pay
more
than
they
would
pay
for
a
cup
of
coffee
during
their
visit
at
the
end
of
their
bill,
and
we
are
proposing
to
cap
that
7
nights
as
well.
F
D
D
Think
we
see
that
across
many
other
major
European
cities
and
who
do
have
the
benefit
of
tourism,
so
I
think
what
has
come
up
in
the
evidence
is
that
it
has
a
very
low
impact
on
visitors
because
they're
going
there
for
a
visitor
experience
and
it's
far
more
than
just
price
but
I
think
Adams,
absolutely
right
and
further
to
that,
the
local
authority
will
work
out
what
that
particular
industry
in
that
area
can
cope
with
and
it
may
even
be
seasonal.
They
may
only
apply
the
levy
from
April
to
October
and
the
busy
periods
I.
D
A
L
Already
touched
on
many
of
the
research
that
you've
done
so
far,
so
can
I
start
teas
like
that,
a
little
bit
you've
yet
to
persuade
the
industry
that
this
is
a
good
idea.
They
see
as
a
a
burden
or
an
extra
burden
on
them.
It
would
appear
yet
to
persuade
the
Scottish
government
also
that
this
is
a
positive
thing
that
should
be
introduced.
Now.
Can
I
ask
about
how
you
and
you
didn't
visit
the
Scottish
government
managing
to
deal
with
legislation
to
ensure
that
this
could
happen.
I.
F
Mean
in
in
terms
of
the
EM
legislation,
I'm
quite
comfortable,
and
that
this
is
a
business
case
at
late
process,
I'm
quite
comfortable
and
I.
Think
we
don't
be
with
that
of
some
form
of
scrutiny
to
that
to
make
sure
that
things
weren't
been
brought
in
ideologically,
if
I
can
phrase
it
that
way,
rather
than
in
terms
of
our
robust
and
sensible
and
professional
and
business
case,
which
sustains
the
success
of
an
individual
economy.
F
So
in
terms
of
the
legislation,
I'm
not
going
to
tell
the
Scottish
government
how
to
write
it,
that's
entirely
a
matter
for
them,
and
my
job
is
to
outline
and
take
forward
as
robust
a
Umbra
proposal
as
procced
as
possible
and
feed
that
into
the
legislative
process.
So
that
MSP
colleagues
and
the
Scottish
government
can
then
put
forward
legislation
to
hopefully
give
us
that
power
of
implementation
to.
D
Hear
from
Adam
because
he's
very
much
at
the
front
of
this,
but
the
reality
is
that,
in
my
role
at
cos,
I've
been
engaging
with
the
Scottish
government
for
about
you
know
on
this,
specifically
with
the
Minister
for
finance
and
the
Constitution
at
the
time,
and
we've
had
many
discussions
cross-party
with
all
political
groups
in
Hollywood
and
I.
Think.
The
important
thing
here
is
that
we
have
the
conversation.
It's
not
about
us
saying
we
must
have.
D
We
must
have
it's
about
it's
all,
getting
together
around
the
table
for
the
betterment
of
our
local
areas
and
having
that
discussion
and
we'll
continue
to
do
that.
We're
just
at
the
beginning
of
the
process.
As
Annabella's
pointed
out
this
far
more
consultation
needs
to
be
done,
but
the
key
thing
is
that
we
take
everybody
with
us
and,
and
we
eventually
persuade
everybody
that
it
is
a
good
idea
for
those
who
do
want
to
use
it.
But
it's
not
for
everybody
and
I.
L
Following
on
from
that,
do
you
think
you've
made
some
very
strong
cases
for
Edinburgh
and
I?
Think
that's
one
of
the
strongest
cases
we've
seen
in
some
of
the
evidence
we've
looked
at
where
others
have
are
still
working
their
way
through
that
process
as
to
how
they
would
manage
that.
Do
you
think
it
should
be
yourself
as
the
council
who,
who
negotiates
or
should
it
be
Khosla
who
takes
that
lead
rule
to
ensure
that
all
local
authorities
are
covered
in
this
process?.
D
Under
our
current
governance
structures,
which
are
quite
clunky
at
cost
like
sometimes
we
have
a
mandate
from
32
leaders
and
leaders
are
behind
the
process
of
the
principle
of
local
discretion
for
all
local
authorities.
So
I
think
it's
incumbent
that
the
costly
is
the
driver
and
and
pulls
everybody
in,
but
obviously
the
wealth
and
the
value
that
Adam
brings
into
the
table
and
Jenny
brings
and
Bill
brings,
is
incredibly
important
as
well.
D
L
You've
touched
on
the
idea
that
it
will
maybe
only
happen
in
a
few
if
it
does
happen,
and
the
majority
may
not
choose
to
go
down
this
route
because
they
would
see
that
as
a
an
extra
and
then
thinking
about
the
businesses
that
may
have
some
difficulty.
They
see
themselves
because
they
are
marketing
and
managing
their
business,
trying
to
cut
costs
to
ensure
that
they
give
the
best
experience
they
can
to.
You
can
obviously
under
understand
why
they
feel
nervous
about
the
process,
because
they
see
this
as
an
extra
burden.
F
I
mean
in
our
process
has
been
involving
them
in
that
decision-making
process.
I
mean
today,
I'm
expecting
businesses
the
the
outcome
of
that
meeting
with
the
industry
to
come
up
with
there
based
model
of
how
this
it
would
be
implemented.
Now,
I
want
to
make
sure
that
it's
as
easy
for
them
to
operate
as
possible.
F
Nobody
wants
every
Hotel
Neda
might
have
to
take
on
additional
administration
staff
to
administer
this
sorts
about,
making
it
absolutely
as
minimal
as
possible
as
of
an
administrative
burden
on
them,
and
and
also
involve
them
in
everything
from
the
governance
and
how
it's
been
and
the
the
rate
as
well
within
that
so
I
think,
engage
in
the
businesses
throughout
the
processes.
We've
done
to
date
and
continue
to
do
will
make
our
proposition
I
think
much
stronger
and.
L
G
I,
don't
think
that
is
the
case.
It's
about
you
having
no,
the
the
dialogue
which
and
and
selling
it
to
them.
In
effect,
you
know
because
at
the
end
of
the
day,
we've
got
to
show
people
that
this
will
be
advantageous
to
the
area.
I
think
we
can
do
that
from
the
evidence
that
we've
got
and
we
can't
get
away
from
the
fact
that
is
a
consumer
tax.
G
It's
not
a
business
tax,
it's
a
consumer
tax
and
are
you
realize
that
with
the
business
we've
got
to
look
at
how
it
affects
them
and
they
collect
another
and
various
things?
But
at
the
end
of
the
deal,
we'll
call
authorities
collect
tax
already
we
have
revenue
and
benefits
staff.
We
deal
with
those
aspects.
We've
flew
my
research
showing
that
we
believe
we
can
deal
with
it.
G
In
that
way,
businesses
are
paying
various
taxes
to
different
governments
at
different
levels
and
quite
easily
I
think
nowadays,
particularly
with
a
digital
age
that
we
live
in,
so
I
I,
don't
think
not
surmountable
by
any
means,
I
mean,
but
we
do
need
to
get
back
with
the
question
that
I'm
the
cause
lost,
support.
I.
Think
local
authorities
are
reaching
out
to
government
to
see
we
require
the
divorcing
of
powers,
whether
it's
this
that
we're
talking
about
today
or
indeed
other
things,
because
local
accountability
is
what
it's
all
about
going
forward.
G
We
are
on
the
ground
in
our
local
areas,
knowing
where
the
priorities
lie
and
where
we
need
to
put
our
investment-
and
you
know
I've
put
my
case
for
Aberdeen
as
to
why
why
we
this
and
another
areas
but
I,
think
we
have
to
get
back
to
the
fact
that
we
have
to
trust
local
authorities
to
be
able
to
make
those
decisions
on
the
ground.
So
in
our
case
the
three
councils
are
sitting
on
the
table
today.
We
believe
this
is
the
way
forward
for
us.
G
If
we
had
the
powers
to
do
it,
we
will
be
bringing
it
in
and
obviously,
in
conjunction
with
the
business
discussions
that
we
were
talked
about,
we
see
as
a
way
forward
in
order
to
meet
the
needs
of
our
communities.
There'll
be
other
local
authorities
that
have
a
different
perspective
on
that,
but
that's
what
local
authorities
should
be
about.
A
G
That's
that's
why
it
has
to
be
determined
locally,
because
we
are
the
ones
that
are
accountable
to
our
local
communities.
So
if
that
money
is
not
being
invested
in
the
areas
that
it's
required
for
your
local
community,
you
won't
be
on
the
council
for
very
long
as
what
I
would
argue
with
you,
because
you
know
we
are
accountable
to
the
local
community
and-
and
you
know,
I've
argued
that
we
are
looking
to
build
up
our
cultural
sector.
G
We
are
looking
to
invest
in
Judaism
because
we
see
that
as
a
way
of
boosting
our
economy
going
forward,
others
will
see
that
there
are
areas
of
priority,
maybe
elsewhere,
but
if
statutory
duties
are
increasing
year-on-year,
our
finances
are
reducing
year-on-year.
There
is
less
money
in
which
to
put
into
things
that
are
non
statutory.
That's
why
we
need
to
look
for
ways
in
which
local
government
has
the
ability
to
raise
money.
That
then,
can
then
be
invested
in
the
priorities
that
we
have.
F
Make
a
point
on
the
the
ring-fencing
and
priorities
nature,
because
this
is
such
a
disparate
picture
across
the
country
highlands
two
dozen
market,
it's
very
different
to
Edinburgh,
it's
very
different
type
of
Dean's
is
very
different
than
these.
Now
and
you
know
we
all
have
similarities
but
incredible
differences.
F
It
would
be
impossible
to
go
down
a
road
of
ring
fencing
the
priorities
to
deal
with
the
pressures
in
each
individual
area
because
they
are
so
so
different
and
some
of
it's
about
place
making
some
of
it's
about
infrastructure,
some
of
it's
about
cultural
support
in
the
case
of
n,
but
others.
It
goes
beyond
any
ability
to
see
it's
this
or
it's
that
it's
a
whole
host
of
things
and
I.
Think.
The
key
point
here
is
that
for
certainly
for
n
brothers
to
be
successful,
it's
going
to
have
to
have
that
flexibility
of
change.
F
It's
gonna
have
to
have
that
flexibility
of
year-on-year
the
industry
and
key
stakeholders
saying
to
us
will
last
year
it
was
really
important
that
we
invested
in
festivals
to
make
a
a
big
show
of
that.
But
actually
this
year
it's
something
else,
and
can
we
redirect
funds
towards
that
and
it's
that
flexibility
of
approach.
I,
think
that
this
gives
us
an
ability
and
an
opportunity
to
really
sustain
the
success
of
what
all
aspiring
to.
A
I
The
UK
hospitality
and
the
STA
submission
to
us
said
the
local
government,
both
individual
look
authorities
and
Khosla,
has
singularly
failed
to
listen
to
the
informed
views
of
an
industry.
That's
close
to
and
understands
the
customers.
I
quote
to
the
FSB
report.
That
said,
the
three-quarters
of
business
think
about
negative
impact.
Even
the
cabinet
secretary
for
tourism
herself
said
that
we
need
more
investment
infrastructure,
but
we
need
to
do
in
a
smart
way,
not
doing
a
way
that
doesn't
hammer
the
tourism
industry
sort
of
if
the
industry
isn't
in
favor
of
it.
D
D
No
and
I'll
reiterate:
we
have
been
engaging
with
these
industry
bodies
and
we
will
continue
to
engage
where
we're
a
very
early
part
of
this
whole
process.
You
know
we
only
had
to
launch
two
months
ago
and
we're
now
going
into
a
formal
consultation
process
and
I.
Think
knee
jerks
need
to
be
relaxed
on
both
sides
ever-so-slightly
at
the
moment,
and
let
us
have
a
much
wider
discussion
and
but
no
absolutely
not
negative
about
it.
F
Could
I
see
listen
to
the
plethora
of
voices
from
businesses
who
are
supporting
because
in
Edinburgh
skis
you
have
international
players
like
Virgin
Hotels
are
entering
the
market
they're
not
operating
right
now,
they're
they're
entering
the
market
right
now
and
they
support
our
plans.
Air
B&B,
covering
a
different
set
of
the
market,
are
supporting
our
plans.
F
There
are
big
Scottish
based
businesses,
don't
have
international
dimension
of
having
experienced
this
levy
elsewhere,
who
are
supporting
a
big
players
in
our
markets,
although
and
the
industry
bodies
and
some
of
them
sue
bodies
are
keen
to
play
up
this
consensus.
It
actually
doesn't
exist
that
isn't
a
consensus
in
the
industry
and
while
it
might
be
one
in
four
that
might
be
50/50,
it
might
be
two-thirds
one-third,
but
there
are
industry
voices.
You
understand
the
impact
that
this
could
make
to
supporting
the
sector.
There
are
an
industry
voices.
F
You
understand
the
long-term
concern
that
this
is
what
is
needed
if
we're
to
sustain
that
level
of
success,
because
for
the
industry
themselves
in
this,
the
point
that
hasn't
been
made
an
Edinburgh
right
now
there
are
three
hotels
that
have
either
just
opened
or
being
built
once
an
undersquare
alone.
There
are
hotels
being
built
across
our
city.
The
market
is
expecting
continued
growth
and,
if
anything
threatens
that
continued
growth,
the
market
itself
will
suffer,
the
industry
itself
will
suffer
and
it
sustained
investment
to
prolong
that.
C
Touch
on
here,
it's
not
being
covered
already,
convener,
M
and-
and
it
says,
submission
you
key
hospitality,
says
and
I
quote:
imposing
an
additional
tax
on
visitors
who
choose
to
stay
in
commercial
accommodation
and
I,
make
the
greatest
economic
contribution
to
destination,
ignores
the
pressures
created
by
Davis
in
the
case
of
Edinburgh
eighteen
and
a
half
million
such
vessels
per
annum.
Now
these
devices
obviously
contribute
to
congestion.
They
use
public
toilets
the
drop
letter,
the
impact
the
roads
as
well.
C
So
how
would
you
address
that
particular
issue
and
also,
if
you
could
just
stay
on
the
back
of
that,
you
talked
about
I'm,
trying
to
make
Endora
a
councilman
via
and
all
your
own
destination
more.
We
have
more
people
in
November,
understandably
in
January
February.
Is
that
a
possibility
such
attacks
could
even
be
seasonal?
E
A
E
E
So
it
would
be
very
difficult
for
us
to
to
form
some
form
of
tax,
maybe
read
Merkin
form
of
tax
and
they
would
benefit
from
it,
but
but
we
wouldn't,
but
the
simple
fact
of
life
is
that
their
costs
on
our
roads
are
massive:
the
use
of
our
toilets,
the
fact
that
they're
dumping
or
they're
having
to
dump
and
their
toilet
waste
and
in
remote
communities
when
there
are
no
facilities
facilities
for
them
I
think
we
would
just
have
to
compensate
for
them
and
by
using
different
tutors
and
funds.
I.
D
F
Just
gonna
say
because
the
industry
we've
covered
both
these
issues
and
direct
conversations
with
industry
in
terms
of
seasonality.
It
was
one
of
the
things
we
put
on
the
table
asking
them
with
the
prefer
when
room
rates
are
300
pounds
a
night
as
opposed
to
50
at
apply
then,
and
the
industry
very
clearly
said
they
wanted
it
to
be
as
simple
as
possible,
and
they
found
that
as
simple
as
possible
to
apply
all
year
round,
and
so
that
was
a
case
where
we
were
open
to
either
suggestion.
F
We
listened
to
the
industry,
contrary
to
some
industry
bodies,
saying
we're
not
and
we
progressed
on
that
basis.
Dear
visitors
also
became
quite
a
big
part
of
the
conversation,
because
our
industry
quite
regularly
said
so.
There's
a
big
pressure
caused
by
people
coming
in
to
the
city
of
n,
but
are
the
problem
I
think
get
stiff
when
you
try
and
look
for
an
international
example
of
this
working
anywhere
in
the
world
and
I
can't
find
anywhere
and
I
think
everyone
else
was
still
going
to
find
some
weird
as
well.
F
What
we
have
done,
though,
is
engaged
directly
with
the
attractions
of
n
bruh
the
castle,
for
example,
where
part
of
our
discussions
with
industry
with
key
stakeholders
so
where
the
airport.
So
we
have
continued
those
discussions
with
a
number
of
people
who
have
that
and
those
visitor
numbers
going
through
them
to
explore
for
options
that
are
but
I
could
say
in
it
almost
to
the
point
about
campervans,
there
will
be
a
hundred
and
one
things
thrown
into
this
to
be
as
reasons
that,
unless
it's
squared
off
we
shouldn't
proceed.
D
Which
was
a
very
good
point.
I
will
be
very
brief.
We
do
have
local
authorities
who
have
pressures
with
camper
Valentina's
such
like
and
cause
was
working
with
them
and
has
been
looking
at
the
possibility
again
of
local
discretion,
where
the
hotel
room
rates
fee
per
night
wouldn't
apply
that
if
they're
using
camping
sites-
and
it
is
like
that
perhaps
a
model
of
that
nature
could
be
brought
forward.
So
again
it
comes
down
to
local
discretion.