►
Description
Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee
A
Good
morning,
may
I
welcome
everyone
to
the
30th
meeting
in
2020
the
delegated
powers
and
law
reform
committee
for
those
of
us
here
in
the
adam
smith
room.
Can
I
remind
everyone
that
social
distancing
measures
are
in
place
in
the
committee
rooms
and
across
the
hollywood
campus?
I
ask
that
you
all
take
care
to
observe
these
measures
over
the
course
of
this
morning's
business,
including
when
entering
and
exiting
the
committee
room,
and
can
you
all
put
your
mobile
devices
to
silence.
Please.
A
The
first
item
of
business
is
to
propose
that
the
committee
take
items
six
and
seven
in
private.
Does
the
committee
agree
to
take
items
six
and
seven
in
private,
okay,
moving
to
agenda
item
2
today
we
have
before
is
graham
day
msp
the
minister
for
parliamentary
business
and
veteran
so
welcome,
and
he
will
give
evidence
relating
to
the
work
of
the
committee
during
the
parliamentary
year.
2019
2020.
A
mr
day
is
accompanied
by
five
scottish
government
officials.
One
is
here
with
us
in
parliament,
stephen
mcgregor,
head
of
parliamentary
head
of
parliament
and
legislation
unit;
four
also
join
us
remotely
susan
herbert
head
of
the
ssi
team
in
the
parliament
and
legislation,
unit,
jenny,
brough,
coronavirus
legislation,
coordination,
team,
rachel,
raynor
legal
directorate,
deputy
legislation
coordinator
and
brian
petty,
head
of
the
eu
exit
legislation,
team,
parliament
and
legislation
unit.
A
B
A
Now
the
committee
very
much
welcomes
a
continued
improvement
in
the
overall
drafting
quality
of
secondary
legislation,
as
well
as
the
decrease
in
ssis
reported
under
the
three
most
significant
reporting
grounds.
The
government
has
clearly
been
under
pressure
in
the
last
few
months
to
bring
forward
legislation
quickly
to
respond
to
the
coronavirus.
A
C
Is
what
we
have
been
doing
over
the
period
in
which
I've
been
minister,
which
is
maintaining
as
strict
as
possible
a
regime
around
quality
control
and
I'm
very
heartened
by
the
content
of
your
report?
I
approach
it
with
a
degree
of
trepidation
because,
as
you
pointed
out,
everyone
has
been
under
enormous
pressure
over
the
recent
period.
I
think
it's
to
the
great
credit
of
the
government's
officials,
particularly
those
responsible
for
drafting
that
we
have
had
so
few
problems,
because
I
think
there
is
a
bit
of
a
misunderstanding.
C
I
think
we
we
as
msps
know
that
quite
often
we've
been
working
from
home.
It's
been
different
ways
of
working
all
around.
It's
been
the
same
for
them,
which
presents
its
own
challenges,
but
we're
absolutely
not
complacent
at
all,
as
the
officials
who
are
on
the
line
here
today
will
attest
to
my
first
question
when
I
spot
any
error
is
how
did
that
happen?
We
want
to
maintain
the
standards
that
we've
set
and
I'm
optimistic
we'll
be
able
to
do
that.
Convener,
okay,.
A
A
C
We,
as
you
know,
are
under
quite
considerable
pressure
because
of
brexit
covet
and,
as
you
say,
the
run
up
to
the
conclusion
of
this
session.
I
would
be
optimistic
of
clearing
two
of
those
and
with
one
left
beyond
that,
we
will
make
every
effort
possible
to
completely
meet
that
commitment
that
I
gave
you.
So
I
would
be
hopeful
of
all
three
I'd
be
confident.
The
two
of.
C
Oh,
it
would
never
be
one
of
these
sessions
without
the
council
tax
reduction
subject
coming
up
convener
we
we
have
a
disagreement
over
this
issue
between
the
committee
and
the
government.
That's
a
long
running
disagreement
and
a
respectful
disagreement
perhaps
put
accurately
I.
I
would
not
anticipate
that
being
addressed
in
the
short
term,
not
least
of
all
because
of
the
priorities
we're
dealing
with.
In
other
regards.
A
C
Think
convener
with
respect,
we
have
responded
to
the
committee's
concern
to
a
degree
by
with
the
keying
versions
that
have
been
set
up.
Our
view
at
the
moment
is
that
we
would
not
look
to
make
any
significant
amendments
to
the
ctr
scheme,
because
you
know
of
the
pressures
we're
under
and
we're
also
dealing
with
this
universal
credit
aspect.
I
mean
in
principle.
I
agree
that
consolidations
are
a
good
thing
to
be
doing
the
difficulty
with
with
one
like
this
is
where
you're
frequently
revisiting
it.
It
becomes
problematic.
C
A
A
D
Thank
you
and
convener
and
good
morning,
minister,
the
the
committee
is
keenly
aware
of
the
significant
amount
of
legislation,
legislative
work
which
the
government
has
had
to
do
in
response
to
coronavirus
and
during
lockdown.
This
committee
has
had
to
balance
the
need
for
secondary
legislation
to
be
implemented
quickly,
but
also
to
have
the
proper
scrutiny.
So
I've
got
a
couple
of
questions
around
coronavirus.
C
Well,
I
would
offer
the
reassurance
that
we,
the
course
of
action
we
follow
and
all
these
things
is
always
carefully
considered,
and
I
recognize
there
will
be
times
that
others
might
take
a
different
view
on
the
approach
that
we've
we've
undertaken.
But
I
would
point
out
that
there
has
been
no
unwillingness
on
the
part
of
the
government,
through
its
ministers
to
appear
before
committees
to
answer
for
decisions
that
have
been
taken
to
explain
the
approach
we've
taken
of
it.
I
think
I'm
right
insane
in
my
call.
C
You
might
russell's
been
in
front
of
the
recovery
committee
10
or
11
times,
for
example,
along
with
multiple
other
ministers,
which
is
as
it
should
be,
but
it
is
about
striking
the
balance
where
we
sometimes
need
to
implement
change
very
quickly
and-
and
there
is
a
necessity
to
that-
I
mean
if
the
member
has
any
thoughts
on
how
we
could
do
it
differently.
I'm
happy
to
discuss
those.
C
On
sorry,
minister,
so
I
was
going
to
say,
but
but
it's
also
been
the
challenges
for
the
parliament
as
well.
I
mean,
I
think,
all
too
often
we
in
the
midst
of
all
this
we've
lost
track
of
the
fact
that
everyone
has
faced
considerable
challenges
in
terms
of
different
ways
of
working,
and
I
I
think,
frankly,
that
the
committees
of
the
parliament
deserve
enormous
credit
for
the
way
they
have
risen
to
that
challenge,
with
hybrid
meetings
with
virtual
meetings,
etc.
They
found
a
way
to
keep
the
show
on
the
road.
D
No,
that's,
I
absolutely
agree
with
them.
The
points
that
you've
made
the
the
committee
wants
all
instruments
to
be
as
clear
as
possible,
so
that
there
is
no
confusion
as
to
what's
required
by
all
of
us.
Can
I
ask
how
the
scottish
government
ensures
that
what
is
law
and
what
is
public
health
guidance
is
made
clear,
because
there
is
a
degree
of
confusion
about
where
different
pieces
of
advice
and
and
guidance
sits.
E
E
Terms
and
it
comes
down
to
communications
and
being
as
clear
as
possible,
what
regulations
do
and
don't
do
and
then
obviously
there's
quite
a
wide,
ranging
suite
of
guidance
now
in
relation
to
covet
activity,
and
you
know
that's
given
a
lot
of
thought
and
attention
within
government
before
any
changes
are
made
about.
How
do
we
communicate
that
as
clearly
as
possible,
so
that
people
who
are
affected
by
it
do
understand
it?
E
C
B
C
Check,
what's
what's
meant,
and
often
it
is,
I
like
a
clarity
of
words,
or
perhaps
people
interpret
them
what's
being
said
in
a
way
that
suits
what
they're
they're
looking
for.
So
as
I
say,
I'm
not
suggesting
that
this
is
perfect,
but
I
think
there's
the
balance
is
right
and
I
hope
we
are
quick
to
respond
when
a
legitimate
issue
is
raised
with
us.
You
know,
both
internally
and
externally,
with
msps
of
all
parties
coming
forward
and
with
queries.
D
Okay,
thank
you
for
that
response.
Can
I
ask
you
now
about
the
the
20
day
rule,
because
you'll
know
that
the
committee
has
previously
highlighted
the
number
of
negative
instruments
coming
into
force
almost
immediately
and
breaking
the
28
day,
rule
and
again
committee
appreciates
that
this
is
often
necessary,
but
want
to
ensure
it's
only
used
when
it
is
absolutely
necessary.
So
can
actually,
minister,
how
you
monitor
these
speeches
to
ensure
the
legislation
which
is
not
so
urgent,
doesn't
break,
be
well.
C
I'm
happy
to
give
you
an
assurance,
so
that
is
something
we
take
extremely
seriously
that
I
take
extremely
seriously
when
we
find
ourselves
in
a
situation
where
we
would
be
at
risk
of
doing
that.
I'm
always
careful
to
to
look
at
why
this
has
happened
to
see
what
the
justification
for
it
is
it's
not
something
we
do
as
a
matter
of
course.
C
Sometimes
it's
circumstances
out
with
our
control
that
lend
itself
to
that,
and
I
certainly,
wherever
possible,
seek
to
ensure
that
the
relevant
committee,
conveners
and
the
po
are
cited
on
on
the
reasons
for
it,
but
I
do
offer
you
the
assurance.
It's
not
something
we
do
lightly
and
then
you
know
it's
always
a
matter
of
regret
when
this
happens
so
I'll
bring
stephen.
E
To
add
to
this,
I'm
just
going
to
add
to
that
when
we
breach
the
28-day
rule,
there's
a
requirement
that
we
write
to
design
officer
to
explain
why
that
has
happened.
So
it
has
to
happen
every
time
we
reach
the
28-day
rule
and
that
internally
goes
through
a
process
of
officials
having
to
explain
why
we
think
that's
necessary
and
then
ministerial
and
clearance
clearance,
including
the
minister
for
parliamentary
business
and
veterans.
B
C
C
C
So
there
is
a
dialogue
going
on
just
now
across
the
parliament
and
with
the
parliament
about
contingency
plans
that
we
might
require
to
address
that.
As
I
say,
I
could
speak
with
less
certainty
about
emergency
instruments
that
might
be
required
in
relation
to
the
pandemic,
because
you
don't
know
what
might
arise.
F
A
Okay,
thank
you
mary.
Before
moving
to
stuart
macmillan,
can
I
just
go
back
minister
to
an
earlier
point
mary
raised
about
the
clarity
between
what
is
law
and
what
is
guidance?
Do
you
think
that
when
ministers
are
addressing
the
chamber,
if
they
make
it
clear
enough,
what's
required
by
law
and
what's
guidance
because
you'll
probably
be
aware,
some
members
have
asked
to
have
that
made
clearer.
C
Yeah,
I
mean
my
own
personal
reflection
when
I've
heard
this
is.
I
think
it
is
made
clear
at
the
time.
However,
as
someone
touched
on
airwell,
there
is
a
very
large
volume
of
information
out
there,
and
perhaps
we
need
to
reflect
on
on
how
we
reinforce
that,
but
I
certainly
think
of
multiple
occasions
in
the
chamber
where
the
first
minister
or
someone
else
has
articulated
how
this
will
be
done
and
what
what
form
it
takes
and
then
there's
subsequent
misunderstanding.
So
I
think
that's
something
we
are
alive
to.
F
Yeah,
it
was
just
to
pick
up
on
that
point,
because
the
expression
is
used
all
the
time,
the
rules
and
I
think
in
parliament-
it's
perhaps
the
incumbent
on
us
to
use
more
technical
language
and
talk
about
regulations
or
guidance,
and
I
think
that's
actually
where
a
lot
of
the
confusion
comes
from
when
the
first
minister
or
whoever's
talking
about
it
talks
about
the
rules,
the
rules
could
be
either.
So
I
think
that
would
be
the
message
to
take
back.
Yeah.
A
C
B
B
So
the
the
the
you
know
how
that
issue
regarding
the
subject,
committees
or
the
other
relevant
delegate
powers
committee
there.
So
just
I
just
thought
I'd
make
you
aware
of
that,
because
it
might
be
worthwhile
if
your
officials
wanted
to
potentially
have
some
dialogue
with
some
of
the
other
parliaments
within
the
region,
because
it
might
actually
provide
some
some.
Some
assistance,
and
also
some
some
comparisons
with
also
what's
happening
here
and
elsewhere.
C
B
C
C
There
are
38
scottish
ssis,
of
which
the
majority
are
expected
to
be
laid
in
the
parliament
in
october
and
november,
and
that
there
is
a
particular
pinch
point
in
late
october,
early
november,
which
we're
working
very
hard
to
manage.
This
considerable
effort
goes
in
to
try
and
smooth
the
numbers,
so
that
committees
don't
become
overwhelmed,
but
there
is
an
unavoidable
issue
towards
the
end
of
october
and
the
first
week
or
so
in
november,
which
will
be
extremely
busy.
B
E
I'm
happy
to
speak.
To
that
I
mean
there's
effectively
two
waves.
We
think
of
eu
x
activity
the
first
one's
happening.
Now.
That's
the
uksi
notifications
which
we're
sending
to
the
parliament
and
quite
a
large
number,
have
gone
over
the
last
couple
of
weeks.
More
are
happening
and
as
we
speak,
we
think
this
is
the
critical
period
for
that
type
of
activity.
E
C
E
It's
on
certain.
I
think
that
there
will
be
more
legislation
required.
I
think
it's
just
it's
really
difficult
to
say
at
the
moment
what
that
looks
like,
because
there
is
no
agreement
currently
and
don't
know
what
the
shape
of
that
is
going
to
be,
and
what
speed
the
uk
government
wants
to
move
at.
We
don't
have
ourselves
great
intelligence
of
what
that
might
look
like.
We
get.
We
gradually
get
more
and
more
from
the
uk
government's
time
passes
and
where
we're
able
to
share
that
within
the
confidential
confidentiality
requirements.
B
The
committee
has
previously
said
that
it
was
grateful
for
your
regular
updates
and
also
the
updates
to
the
subject
committees
on
the
eu
related
legislation.
You
restarted
this
practice
recently
and
where
you
continue
to
provide
updates
on
the
volume
of
legislation
over
the
coming
months,
such
as
the
breakdowns
of
number
of
ssis,
and
also
si
notifications.
C
Absolutely
it's
a
it's
an
approach.
That's
worked
extremely
well,
so
I
had
one-to-one
meetings
with
the
relevant
conveners
when
we
returned
from
summer
recess.
If
one
calls
it
a
summer
recess,
we
have.
We
do
follow-up
letters
and
it's
not
just
the
volumes
we're
trying
to
give
them
an
understanding
of
the
topics
in
so
far
as
that's
possible
as
well,
and
they
will
be
quick
to
come
back
looking
for
any
further
information,
and
you
know
it's
a
good
relationship.
C
E
Yeah
I
mean,
as
far
as
we
were
able
to,
we
were
going
to
try
and
ensure
that
as
many
cases
as
possible,
the
full
28
days
it
will
be
allowed
and
part
of
the
challenge
we've
got
is
we.
We
can't
be
certain
when,
for
uk
affirmative
instruments,
when
they
will
be
taken
in
the
uk
parliament,
so
we
have
to
work
back
from
their
their
lane
date.
E
So
in
some
cases
it
might
seem
that
our
planning
assumptions
less
than
28
days,
but
where
that
is
going
to
be
the
case,
we'll
engage
with
the
uk
government.
Ask
them
to
make
sure
no
debates
take
place
in
the
relevant
instruments
until
the
parliament
has
been
able
to
form
a
view
and
whether
scottish
ministers
should
consent.
A
F
Okay
and
officially
good
morning,
minister
now
obviously
there's
clearly
a
substantial
amount
of
legislation
to
go
through
before
the
end
of
this
parliamentary
term.
No
doubt
a
big
challenge
for
you,
but
I
I'm
really
wondering
about
the
non-coveted
and
non-eu
withdrawal
legislation
in
terms
of
the
work
that
we've
got
to
do
there.
So
could
you
tell
us
a
little
bit
about
how
the
scottish
government
is
prioritizing
all
of
that
other
stuff?
C
So
it's
a
a
weak
way
monitoring
exercise
steven
nordney's
head
there.
We
are
alive
to
all
these
challenges
and,
of
course,
the
the
unknown
two
unknowns
in
all
of
this
is
any
increased
brexit
related
instruments
which
would
add
to
the
burden
and
covered
as
well.
Those
are
the
two
things
that
we
we
don't
know
about,
but
are
looking
ahead
with
a
fair
wind
and
the
continuing
cooperation
of
the
parliament.
I
would
be
optimistic
that
we
can
get
through
the
primary
legislative
program
now.
C
As
you
know,
earlier
this
year
on
behalf
of
the
government,
I
took
some
pretty
tough
decisions
in
terms
of
not
proceeding
with
legislation
simply
because
of
the
circumstance
we
found
ourselves
in.
We
wouldn't
as
a
government
shy
away
from
doing
that,
were
it
necessary
again,
but
if
the
parliament
continues
to
be
able
to
function
as
it
is,
and
we
found
the
different
ways
of
working,
then
I
I'm
not
foreseeing
that
as
being
necessary
around
primary
legislation
in
terms
of
secondary
legislation,
we
have
put
an
enormous
amount
of
work.
C
I
say
we
I
mean
the
officials
to
minimise
or
to
separate
out
the
instruments
that
are
absolutely
essential
and
those
that
we
might
want
to
have,
but
we
we
don't
need
to
have
so.
We've
been
very
pragmatic
all
round
in
our
approach,
and
sometimes
I
I
think
maybe
some
of
the
committees
from
the
look
at
the
volumes
are
what
they're
getting.
C
Maybe
don't
see
it
that
way,
but
that's
the
approach
we've
taken
and
will
continue
to
take
and,
as
I
say,
on
a
weekly
basis,
we're
monitoring
any
issues
that
arise
and
we
also
work
very
closely
with
the
committees
around
any
flexibility.
We
can
offer
to
accommodate
their
workload
on
legislation,
so
sometimes
it
isn't
possible
because
of
other
pressures
to
get
that
stage.
C
C
We
try
to
bunch
instruments
and
they're,
not
necessarily
on
exactly
the
same
subject,
but
if
you
have
a
number
of
affirmatives
coming
at
the
same
time,
we'll
engage
with
the
subject
committee
to
try
and
time
them
in
such
a
way,
if
that's
possible,
that
they
can
have
a
session
with
a
cab
sec
or
the
relevant
minister
to
get
those
moved
on
and
then
focus
on
the
other
business
they
have.
So
it's
always
a
two-way
conversation
around
that,
but
I
I
actually
thought
that
you
were
getting
that
kind
of
information.
F
E
Well,
I
don't
know,
I
think
I
just
say
I
think
we're
better
at
that
now
than
we
were
previously.
I've
been
around
long
enough
to
remember
a
concern
from
the
parliament
that
we're
getting
instruments
in
different
weeks,
which
related
to
the
same
topic
so
for
bill
implementation
work.
We
try
and
make
sure
the
build
teams
are
identifying
if
there
are
packages
of
instruments
and
making
sure
we
verily
dialogue
with
the
clerks
of
this
committee
and
with
the
relevant
subject
committee
well,.
C
F
F
What's
it
called
officially
the
administration.
I
highlighted
it
somewhere
here:
social
security
administration
and
tribunal
membership
bill,
and
we
are
only
looking
at
that
revised
memorandum
today
and
yet
stage
three
is
being
heard
this
afternoon.
So
any
questions
we
have
on
it.
There
isn't
actually
time
for
us
to
ask
and
get
an
answer
to
that
before.
Parliament
has
to
in
effect,
vote
on
stage
three,
and
that
does
pose
a
problem.
I
think
it
poses
a
problem
for
in
terms
of
a
democratic
deficiency.
F
C
C
C
The
reverse
is
also
true
that,
where
a
bill
is
set
out
to
achieve
something
that
we
would
all
be
supportive
of,
of
course,
as
to
get
the
relevant
scrutiny
normally
that
takes
place
in
in
the
early
stages,
and
you
know
I
think
the
bill
this
afternoon
only
has
four
government
amendments
to
address.
But
let
me
take
that
away
and
think
about
that,
because
I
think
it's
a
re.
It
is
a
reasonable
point
to
make
we're
not
living
in
a
perfect
world.
Sometimes
circumstance
arises
that
makes
situations
like
these
necessary.
C
The
other
thing
I
would
kind
of
say
in
response
to
this
is,
of
course
we
can
all
point
to
an
individual
bill
and
its
relationship
with
an
individual
committee.
I
and
my
officials
have
to
take
an
overview
and
we're
trying
to
piece
everything
together
and
make
the
timings
work
in
terms
of
resourcing
the
bills.
So
if,
for
example,
we
have
a
a
stage
two
coming
up,
that's
going
to
require
a
lot
of
amendment
both
from
the
government
and
from
the
opposition
members,
which
of
course,
is
rightly
part
of
the
process.
C
Then
we
have
to
have
an
additional
resource
put
there
to
make
sure
we
can
stick
to
the
timings
around
that
bill,
but
it
has
an
impact
on
other
bills.
So
so
it's
a
bit
of
a
jigsaw
for
me
trying
to
make
sure
that
everything
works
according
to
to
the
plan,
but
also
to
take
account
of
committees.
Coming
back
saying,
we
might
need
a
little
bit
more
time
here.
Can
we
have
that?
F
No,
I'm
absolutely
sure
you
don't
do
it
off
the
back
of
a
bracket
so
to
speak.
I
think,
probably
what
we
we
would
ask
is
that,
because,
obviously
normally
you
don't
get
you
know
you
try
to
avoid
getting
amendments
at
the
stage
three
stage.
But
if
that
has
happened,
if
you
could
just
give
us
a
sort
of
heads
up
in
advance
that
there
is
going
to
be
a
revision
and
then
at
least
we
can
think
about
how
that
impacts
and
affects.
I
think
that
would
be
helpful.
Yeah.
D
D
Commission
and
minister
you'll
know
that
committee
capacity
has
a
major
impact
on
the
handling
of
scottish
law
commission
bills
and
given
the
situation
with
coved
withdrawal
from
the
eu
timetable
of
government
bills,
we're
coming
up
to
the
the
dissolution
of
of
parliament,
and
there
is
a
squeeze
on
on
committees
and
on
this
parliament
on
how
they
do
their
their
work.
And
I'd
be
keen
to
hear
your
view,
minister,
on
what
government
can
do
to
minimize
the
impact
that
all
of
this
has
on
the
progression
of
scottish
law.
Commission
bills
going
forward.
C
I
I'm
I'm
a
big
fan
of
the
work
that
the
group
has
done.
I
think
it's
really
important
that
we
have
a
good
look
at
what
the
recommendations
are.
I
hope
they
are
as
I'm
anticipating
them
to
be,
because
I
think
the
working
group
and
the
government
are
very
much
on
the
same
page
on
this
issue.
You
appreciate
that
it
would
have
been
impossible
to
anticipate
at
the
outset
of
this
session,
the
the
combined
impacts
on
the
parliament's
time
of
both
covert
and
brexit.
C
Nevertheless,
I
think
what
we
have
to
do
is
to
look
to
the
future.
What
would
future
better
ways
of
working?
Look
like
my
own
view,
it's
just
a
personal
view
is,
I
think,
the
role
the
dplr
committee
could
be
tweaked
in
order
to
take
perhaps
a
more
significant
part
in
that
I'm
certainly
keen
to
see
some
of
the
slc
bills
come
forward
in
the
next
session.
I
mean
an
obvious
example:
is
movable
transactions
which
would
have
benefit
for
the
economy,
and
that's
just
one
example.
D
That
that's
very
helpful,
and
I
appreciate
and
your
response
and
it's
something
that
this
committee
has
looked
at
frequently
over
the
over
the
last
while
and
one
of
the
things
that
committee
and
we'd
be
keen
to
to
see
going
forward
is
almost
that
slc
bills
aren't
seen
as
political
pieces
of
work
and
they're,
not
government
bills
and
they're
completely
separate.
So
there
should
always
be
a
separate
timetable
to
progress
those
bills
and
your
commitment
into
and
looking
at
how
that
that
can
be
done
is
certainly
very
welcome.
C
Yeah,
I
I
mean,
I
think
you
make
a
reasonable
point
there
if
we're
looking
at
different
ways
of
doing
this.
Unfortunately,
some
people
will
look
at
some
slc
bills
as
being
quite
sterile,
but
there
is
there's
some
really
good
stuff
in
there.
I
think
we've
we've
worked
with
slc
as
well
about
developing
their
approach
to
shaping
bills,
their
consultation
approach.
We
need,
I
think,
to
improve
the
willingness
of
people
to
participate
in
slc
consultations
around
legislation.
C
There's
perhaps
a
view
out
there
that
the
likelihood
of
those
bills
coming
to
fruition
is
limited
and
therefore
people
don't
necessarily
engage
at
that
early
stage.
I
think
if
we
can
send
a
clear
message
in
the
next
parliament
that
there
is
a
very
strong
chance
of
these
bills
coming
forward,
or
at
least
some
of
them
coming
forward,
we'll
get
a
more
robust
engagement
at
an
early
stage.
The
bill
will
come
forward
more
developed,
and
then
we
have
to
work
out
how
the
parliament
would
wish
to
process
those.
Now
you
know
it's.
C
I
suppose
the
risk
is
that
some
subject
committees
might
be
concerned
about
a
different
approach.
If
we
took
that,
they
might
feel
that
they
ought
to
have
any
particular
bill
sitting
with
them
for
scrutiny,
but
I
don't
think
it's
beyond
the
width
of
this
parliament
to
find
a
better
way
of
dealing
with
slc
bills
and-
and
I
would
certainly
be
disappointed
if
we
were
sitting
here
five
years
from
now,
whether
it's
me
or
anybody
else
any
of
us
not
able
to
reflect
that.
We've
made
considerable
progress
in
this
regard.
B
Yes,
thank
you
just
on
your
final
point.
There,
minister,
I
think
it's
this
committee,
and
also
with
the
various
members
that
we've
actually
had
in
this
committee,
certainly
in
this
session
and
in
the
previous
session,
have
shown
that
the
the
parliament
actually
can
deal
with
the
slc
bills
and
can
deal
with
them
efficiently
and
effectively
to
actually
help
the
help
the
legislation
that
scotland
national
has.
C
I
think
that's
the
frustration
we
all
you
know
we
have
made
progress
in
slc
bills,
but
there
is
a
frustration
that
there
are
a
number
that
have
not
progressed
and
one
that
is
cited
as
movable
transactions
and
the
government
has
also
expressed
its
support
for
the
principles
around
that
so
yeah,
as
I
say,
you
know
hopefully
in
the
next
parliament,
we'll
be
doing
this
slightly
different
way
and
making
even
greater
progress
around
the
slc
bills.
Thank
you.
F
C
None
of
us
could
envisage
the
impact
that
covert
and
brexit
combined
has
had
on
the
work
of
the
parliament.
That
said,
I
think
we've
done
a
significantly
a
significant
job
in
terms
of
keeping
the
show
on
the
road
legitimately.
If
you
look
at
the
number
of
bills
that
the
parliament
has
progressed,
I
was
I
was
looking
before.
I
came
in
at
the
number
of
stage
one
bills
that
this
committee's
looked
at
and
then
the
stage
two
consideration.
I
think
it's
16
and
11.
so
over
a
very
short
period
of
time.
A
I
think
the
relationship
seems
to
be
in
a
good
footing.
Hopefully
that
will
continue.
I
think
our
substantive
point
today
was
about
the
social
security
administration
and
tribunal
membership
bill.
Just
for
the
record,
I
I
should
say
that
the
standing
order
requirements
and
the
timing
for
this
bill
were
met
as
I
understand
it,
but
it
was
in
the
shortest
time
possible
and
I
think
the
takeaway
is
regardless
of
whether
a
bill
seems
to
be
important
or
less
important
from
point
to
principle
and
scrutiny.
A
C
Like
so,
I
would
just
say
I
wouldn't
use
the
language
of
less
important
or
more
important.
It's
more.
I
think
what
I
was
touching
on
earlier
is
you
can
anticipate
or
you
will
see
with
certain
bills.
Some
of
them
will
require
more
time
than
others
because
of
the
the
nature
of
them.
That's
what
the
point
I
was
making,
but
I
actually
take
the
point
about
social
security
bill
and
we'll
continue
our
dialogue
about
the
council
tax
issue.
A
Put
it
on
the
agenda
for
next
time
so
well,
thank
you
again,
and
we
may
follow
up,
of
course
by
letter.
If
there's
any
more
any
more
questions
that
we
we
come
to
as
we
discuss
it
now,
I'm
going
to
suspend
the
meep
thing
briefly
to
allow
you
to
leave
but
remind
you
to
use
the
social
measuring
protocol
as
you
go.
Thank
you
very
much.
A
A
A
A
Is
the
committee
content
with
these
instruments
on
the
human
tissues
regulations?
I
noticed
that
the
list
of
those
the
scottish
government
consulted
focused
on
medical
groups
and
did
not
include
public
or
religious
groups
while
not
something
the
committee
needs
to
consider.
Would
members
be
content
if
we
highlighted
this
to
the
lead
committee.