►
Description
www.parliament.scot
____
Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee
25th Meeting, 2018
The Committee will meet at 11:45 am in the Adam Smith Room (CR5)
1. Decision on taking business in private: The Committee will decide whether to take item 3
in private.
2. Trade Bill (UK Parliament legislation): The Committee will take evidence on legislative
consent memorandum LCM(S5) 12 from—
George Hollingbery MP, Minister of State for Trade Policy, UK Government;
Suzanne Greaves OBE, Trade Bill Manager, Department for International Trade;
Rebecca Hackett, Deputy Director of Policy, Scotland Office;
Eleanor Weavis, Head of Domestic Portfolio, Trade Strategy, Department for
International Trade.
3. Trade Bill (UK Parliament legislation): The Committee will consider the evidence it heard
earlier.
___
Published by the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body.
www.parliament.scot // We do not facilitate discussions on our YouTube page but encourage you to share and comment on our videos on your own channels. // If you would like to join in our conversations please follow @ScotParl on Twitter or like us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/scottishparliament
A
When
colleagues
and
welcome
to
this
25th
meeting
and
2018
of
the
delegated
powers
and
Law
Reform
Committee
James
Simpson
convener
of
the
committee
is
attending
to
other
parliamentary
business
this
morning
and
therefore
was
enabled
to
be
with
us
and
he
sends
his
apologies
bill.
Bowman
MSP
will
be
joining
us
when
his
committee
that
he
is
currently
and
finishes
very
soon,
he'll
be
substituting
for
him.
So
before
we
move
to
the
main
item
of
business,
that
has
one
piece
of
business
that
the
committee
must
decide.
Faust
and
that's
on
the
agenda.
A
Item
number
one
is
proposed,
but
the
committee
takes
item
number
3
and
private.
This
item
is
the
consideration
of
the
evidence
we
are
about
to
hear
on
the
UK
trade
bill.
Does
the
committee
agreed
to
take
the
item
3
in
private?
Thank
you.
Okay.
Today
we
are
scrutinizing
the
legislative
consent.
Memorandum
for
the
UK
trade
bill
and
we
had
before
was
a
porous.
The
George
Holly
MP,
the
Minister
of
State
for
trade
policy
of
the
UK
government.
Mr.
A
A
You're
welcome,
welcome
you
all
to
this
meeting
and
thank
you
for
taking
the
time
to
come
to
the
Scottish
Parliament.
No
you've
already
had
a
busy
morning
giving
evidence
to
the
finance
and
constitution
committee.
So
I
certainly
welcome
you
to
to
this
committee
as
well.
As
you
know,
they're
one
of
the
committee's
roles
is
to
look
at
they're
all
legit
of
consent,
memorandums
which
contain
delegated
Pebbles
report
to
the
relevant
lead
committee
about
questions
today,
therefore
focused
on
the
delegator
purpose
in
the
trade
bill.
A
I
do
highlight
the
word
mystery
into
some
policy
area,
some
time
to
tell
you,
but
that
is
not
the
purpose
of
this
committee
and
and
I
will
allow
some
latitude
for
some
questioning.
But
if
the
fiduciary
to
father
too
far
into
policy,
then
I,
will
they
I
will
ask
my
colleagues
to
to
stop
not
but
I.
Do
I'd
like
to
invite
the
minister
to
make
an
opening
statement
and
after
that
they'll
open
up
to
creations
from
members
Minister
thank.
B
You
very
much
indeed
Govinda
and
thanks
for
having
it
all
of
us
in
today.
I
have
to
say
this
is
possibly
the
most
I
tannic
table,
I've
ever
sat
it's
pretty
extraordinary
and
whilst
I
was
dreading
would
be
the
wrong
way,
but
was
somewhat
tense
about
my
appearance
in
the
last
committee.
This
one
has
me
rigid.
This
is
a
very
technical
area
anyway.
B
Thank
you
for
inviting
me
to
address
your
committee
today,
which
I
understand,
looks
as
you've
already
outlined
aspects
of
the
trade
bill
and
will
feed
back
into
the
finance
and
constitution
committee,
your
opinions
and,
of
course,
we're
from
where
I
have
just
arrived.
As
I
explained
to
that
committee,
the
UK
government
once
all
parts
of
the
UK
to
support
this
bill,
and
we
will
continue
our
comprehensive
engagement
with
the
Scottish
Government
to
ensure
we
secure
its
recommendation
for
a
legislative
consent
motion.
B
With
this
in
mind,
I
note
the
Scottish
Government's
memorandum
on
the
LCM
from
December
2017
and,
of
course
since
then
the
UK
government
has
taken
significant
strides
through
its
amendments,
making
improvements
to
the
bill
and
answering
many
of
the
concerns
that
were
expressed
in
the
memorandum
beyond
this
I'm
conscious.
That
members
here
today
have
specific
and
technical
questions,
particularly
on
clauses
1
and
2,
and
I
look
forward
along
with
colleagues
to
providing
responses
as
an
important
step
to
help
deliver
this
bill
for
the
whole
at
the
UK.
B
I
would
just
finally
reflect
Covino,
as
I
just
mentioned
to
you
in
our
private
conversation,
that
this
is
a
technical
area.
There
will
be
times
undoubtedly
when
those
officials
are
better
placed
than
I
am
to
give
you
full
answers
and
I
hope.
Members
of
the
committee
will
allow
me
to
do
so
and
I
think
they
will
actually
simply
get
better
answers.
A
Thank
you
very
much
for
your
opening
comments.
Muenster,
and
certainly
we
have
no
issue
at
all
with
your
colleagues
in
particular.
I
do
so
I'll
open
up
question
one.
It
certainly
appears
that
the
general
intention
behind
the
per
Wilson
clause
one
to
implement
the
government
procurement
arrangement,
so
the
agreement
is
that
the
UK
would
continue
to
be
an
independent
member
of
the
agreement.
The
delegated
powers
continue
to
be
an
independent
so
that
the
delegate,
Pebbles
memoranda
for
the
bill
explains
that
the
power
there's
a
quiet
to
fight
any
changes.
A
Indeed,
as
the
ancient
is
needed
as
a
result
of
the
process
whereby
the
UK
becomes
an
independent
member,
can
you
explain
the
scope
of
the
purpose
that
would
be
available
to
the
Scottish
Ministers
to
meet
potential
amendments
to
the
terms
of
the
government
procurement
agreement
and
could
pebbles
actually
be
used
to
implement
further
substantive
changes
to
the
GPE?
Given
the
procurement
as
a
devolved
model.
B
The
the
power
is
there
simply
to
slide
across
what
we
have
already
agreed
into
UK
schedules
with
a
minimum
of
fuss
such
that
the
delegated
powers
are
there
to
just
take
any
bits
that
need
changing
in
through
particular
areas
in
particularly
accession
to
and
withdrawal
from
the
GPA
such
that
it
reflects
the
current
reality
on
the
ground.
Is
it's
possible
that
these
powers
could
be
made
more
wire
used
more
widely?
B
Yes,
it
is,
but
it
is
absolutely
our
intention
and
I
can
say
that
publicly
here
today
and
put
on
the
record
that
the
government
is
not
it's
not
going
to
use
the
powers
for
that
purpose.
It
is
our
intention
to
move
this
agreement
across
such
that
it
can
be
used
in
its
current
form
in
the
UK
on
a
legal
basis,
and
do
you
have
anything
to
add
and.
C
I'll
run
through
the
escape
of
the
clause,
one
powers
now,
if
that's
helpful,
so
it
allows
for
changes
of
our
domestic
regulation
to
reflect
our
UK's,
the
UK's
independent
accession
to
the
GPA.
As
we
leave
the
EU
as
the
Minister
reference,
there
will
be
no
substantive
changes
as
we
exceed
to
the
GPA
on
the
same
terms
and
with
the
same
coverage
as
we
have
now.
C
Measures
as
new
countries,
indeed
exceed
or
withdrawal
from
the
agreement,
and
it
allows
us
to
update
annex
1
of
the
GPA,
which
is
the
list
that
covers
what
entities
are
covered
by
that
agreement.
So,
for
example,
when
that
agreement
was
made,
the
Department
international
trades
didn't
exist.
So
we
all
need
to
do
some
technical
updates
to
make
sure
that
list
of
entities,
especially
accurate.
A
Just
on
night
offices
and
the
previous
committee,
there
was
quite
our
weight
discussion,
around
clauses,
1
and
2,
and
so
one
aspect
that
was
raised
earlier,
which
certainly
has
an
impact
in
this
particular
line
of
questioning
as
the
is,
is
that
the
aspect
of
the
Scottish
Ministers
they're,
having
any
type
of
input
to
to
engage
with
that
particular
area.
And-
and
there
seem
to
be
some.
A
You
know
some
debate
in
that
area
of
discussion.
I
think
your
officials
are
Smalling
Todd
mentioned
that
there
have
been
regular
and
way
discussions
which
I
missed
it
at
the
official
level,
but
not
at
ministerial
level,
and
so
both
Scottish
Ministers
and
with
this
Parliament
actually
have
an
opportunity
to
help
a
sheep,
and
this
particular
discussion.
B
Are
we
talking
about
specifically
about
GPA?
Yes,
in
that
and
again
I
invite
a
officials
to
jump
in
and
save
me
at
any
stage.
We
are
transitioning
across
the
agreement
which
we
currently
carry
on,
which
basis
any
changes
that
are
being
made
are
simply
to
make
the
powers
that
currently
exist
through
the
EU
available
to
British
institutions
through
the
through
the
UK
and
which
basis
any
decisions
that
Scottish
Ministers
have
already
taken
in
using
that
power
are
already
made
and
are
already
there
and
the
powers
that
they
had
before
will
still
be
there.
A
D
You
didn't,
you
know,
jump
in
and
save
year.
Maybe
we
could
get
some
officials
to
jump
in
and
see
if
the
Prime
Minister,
but
maybe
that
or
I
think
that
may
be
a
stretch
too
far.
Well,
let's
not
go
there.
Please
M
in
terms
of
the
the
way
in
which
the
government
has
handled
the
whole
Assurant
devolve
powers
and
I.
D
Think
many
of
us
would
believe
and
across
parties
that
there's
been
a
player
disasterous
approaching,
but
no
heading
for
the
Supreme
Court
consent
as
vital
going
forward
so
that
we
provide
some
certainty
for
businesses
and
for
workers
and
jobs
that
people
who
are
feeling
very
the
position
is
very
precarious.
So
as
we
go
forward
in
regulations
and
devolve
power
come
forward
and
how
has
the
mechanism
Guney
hope
what
mechanisms
going
media
here
for
consultation
and
be
for
disputes
and.
D
All
of
them
I
mean,
if
we're
talking
about
development
frameworks,
if
we're
talking
about
new
regulations
coming
forward,
if,
if
these
are
coming
forward,
what
discussions
and
where
the
devolved
administration's
I
was
it,
how
are
they
going
to
take
place?
And
secondly,
if
there's
differences
of
opinion,
how
those
disputes
going
to
be
resolved?
Okay,.
B
D
B
Course
they
will
I
understand
that
we
are
continuing
to
work
on
how
we
discuss
trade
issues.
It's
a
reserve
matter,
as
we
know
to
the
UK
officials,
meeting
officials
on
a
regular
basis
to
talk
about
the
existing
memoranda
of
understanding,
can
called
outs
and
so
on
and
so
forth,
and
to
see
where
we
are
in
that
process.
B
Protests
of
development
of
those-
and,
in
fact,
Rebecca
just
spoke
a
little
earlier
about
where
roughly,
where
we
are
with
with
that
process.
So
there's
a
lot
of
work
going
on
as
to
how
those
frameworks
that
created
the
mechanisms
by
which
we
talk
with
each
other,
the
various
commitments
the
UK
government
makes
to
the
Scottish
Government
about
trade
and
international
relations
and
how
we
deal
with
those
as
to
the
bill
that
it
sounds
like
sorry,
the
the
next
part
was
it
was
about
free
trade
agreements.
B
We
are
absolutely
clear
that
there
should
be
real,
deep
and
meaningful
consultation
with
the
Scottish
government
that
we
should
be
open
on
our
side
to
modifying
our
proposals
based
on
the
information
we
receive
and
I'm
absolutely
committed
to
that,
it
seems
to
me
that
we
will
get
much
improved,
much
more
deliverable
free
trade
agreements
if
we
can
all
agree
on
exactly
what
they
should,
as
they
should
end
up
proposing
and
indeed
how
we
negotiate
them.
Quite
what
that
mechanism
is
going
to
be
exactly
and
in
fine
detail
is
yet
to
be
resolved.
B
But
you
have
my
political
commitment
that
I
believe
it
is
absolutely
right
that
the
devolved
authorities
should
have
a
very
real
input
into
this
process,
and
already
there
are
many
meetings.
There
are
specific
meetings
where
I'm
having
one
later
on
today
on
free
trade
agreements
with
the
government
Minister
eye
contact
is
happening
at
every
level.
I
think
there's
a
degree
of
certainty
that
needs
to
be
provided
to
that
which
we
will
provide
in
in
due
course
that,
as
to
the
wider
issue
of
frameworks,
disputes
mechanisms
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
B
E
E
So
there's
been
detailed
series
of
discussions
going
on
earlier
this
year.
Second
round
of
discussions
happening
now-
and
there
is
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
activity
there,
but
it
is,
is
complex,
work,
its
technical
work
and
it
does
take
time.
So
it's
right
that
we
we
give
that
the
time
that
is
needed
and
ministers
are
regularly
updated
and
we'll
be
reviewing
that
later
in
the
year.
Just.
D
As
two
years
since
the
vote,
and
and
when
we
still
hear
things
like
nju
course
doesn't
provide
our
certainty
and
in
relation
to
the
question
that
convener
leads
them
to
trying
to
put
some
of
the
technical
elements
and
a
more
practical
terms.
So,
for
example,
the
procurement
agreement
this
that
were
looking
at
taking
forward.
Could
it
do
things
like
allow
the
Scottish
Government,
for
example,
to
not
to
have
a
publicly
wouldn't
real.
D
We
to
have
to
not
put
the
fairy
fairies
today
lens
o
d
tender
with
the
layers
within
public
procurement,
to
insist
that
contractors
paid
they
live
in
which,
because,
at
the
moment,
M
those
three
areas
are
often
as
often
a
hue
procurement
policy.
That
is
highlighted
as
being
the
barriers
to
allow
these
things
to
happen
so
with
the
new
procurement
arrangements
and
try
to
go
down.
Although
examples
like
that
to
happen,
I
think.
B
Community
that
that
the
best
I
can
do
is
to
repeat
myself
and
say
our
objective
here
is
to
transition
exactly
the
same
arrangements.
We
have
technically
change
such
that
they
are
operable
in
UK
law.
The
rules
that
governs
Scottish,
Ministers
and
indeed
UK
government
ministers
previously
will
be
the
same
in
large
parts,
but
in
UK
law,
as
they
were
previously
chosen
or
it's
its.
It
will
be
the
same
any.
F
It's
merely
about
the
objective
of
the
government
procurement
agreement,
which
is
to
allow
businesses
across
the
UK
to
actually
pitch
for
contracts
in
other
countries
that
are
signed
up
to
the
agreement.
So
they
get
the
benefit
of
work
if
you
like
in
contracts
and
the
monetary
benefit
to
that,
and
bring
that
back
to
the
UK
and
also
to
allow
organisations
across
the
UK
to
procure
public
public
services
from
what
a
wider
range
a
sort
of
wider
market
and
therefore
get
better
value
for
the
public
money.
That's
invested
in
them.
F
D
B
We
just
need
to
return
to
the
reality,
which
is
that
we're
transitioning
across
the
agreement,
as
it
currently
sits,
so
anything
that
is
not
currently
possible
will
not
be
current,
will
not
be
possible
thereafter.
Is
it
possible
that
always
allowing
absolutely
Suzanne's
point
is
absolutely
germane
to
access
to
a
1.3
trillion
dollar
market
place
out
there?
Would
we
be
able
to
change
things
under
our
own
right,
as
we
are
no
longer
members
of
the
European
Union?
Yes,
but
that
is
an
argument
for
a
different
day.
B
If
the
UK
government
petition
by
the
Scottish,
Parliament
and
others
decides,
it,
is
the
right
time
and
place
for
us
to
change
the
way
that
agreement
works
well
and
fine,
but
this
is
about
certainty
and
is
about
continuity
and
everyone,
understanding
the
ground
rules
and
whether
there
may
be
problems
with
the
EU
procurement
rules,
and
we
may
wish
to
change
them.
But
we
need
to
do
that
in
due
course,
as
we
can,
without
disrupting
everyone's
expectations,
as
we
leave
the
European
Union
and
that's
the
whole
point
of
the
clause.
B
A
Just
to
move
on
to
close
to
the
said,
wonderful,
really,
questions,
one
close
one:
no
okay,
okay,
sitting
close
to
the
course
of
the
bill
across
I
should
to
section
there
subsection
7
of
the
bill
is
on
the
implementation
of
the
international
trade
agreements,
and
it
provides
that
the
Peugeot
would
end
or
have
the
sunset
a
quarter
for
three
years
after
exit
day.
Unless
that
that
period
is
extended
by
any
regulations.
A
B
Straightforwardly
with
a
commitment
given
publicly
previously,
but
by
myself
again
that
what
we
wish
to
do
with
this
is
simply
make
sure
that
we
have
a
mechanism
to
reflect
accessions
and
indeed
resignations.
Whatever
the
technical
term
term
is
for
leaving
the
GPA,
it
seems
perverse
I
think
not
to
have
that
power
available
to
us
simply
to
make
that
happen
for
a
continuing
period.
It
is
simply
an
efficient
way
of
doing
it.
B
Therefore,
I
don't
believe
there
was
any
particular
need
to
sunset
it.
If
we
wish
to
change
the
GPA
I
would
suggest
to
you
that
there
will
be
other
mechanisms
by
which
we
would
do
that,
and
it
would
be
done
with
much
wider
consultation
and
I
suspect
it
would
use
a
different
mechanism
for
actually
applying
those
changes.
So
the
powers
sit
there
simply
to
allow
us
for
a
period
of
time
to
reflect
the
reality
of
membership
of
the
body.
That
is
what
they're
there
to
do
in
terms
of
the
international
trade
agreements.
B
B
G
B
Think
there
were
arguments
made
in
similar
circumstances
in
other
for
us
draw
bill
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
I
think
straightforwardly
to
have
an
absolutely
hard
sunset
if
you
are
right
on
the
cusp
of
finishing
a
trade
bill
and
you
would
like
to
get
it
onto
the
books.
Finally,
you've
reached
the
point
where
you
can
transition
the
existing
agreements.
It
seems
to
me
that
it
would
be
foolish
to
have
an
absolutely
hard
hard
cliff
edge
limit,
though
of
course
that
does
help
your
negotiation.
B
So
there's
two
sides
to
this
argument,
but
if
it
was
pretty
clear,
for
example,
there's
an
error
had
been
made
in
scheduling
timetables
for
ratification
in
a
different
Parliament.
You
would
be
able
to
deal
with
that
and
therefore
you
could
extend
it
so
that
that
would
in
general,
it's
simply
about
dealing
with
circumstance
as
it
arises.
Thank.
G
B
Simply
because
this
is
in
the
area
of
reserved
competence,
it's
about
free
trade
deals
it's
about
international
trade
and
that
as
a
reserve
master
under
the
Scotland,
Act
I
think
that
that
is
probably
I.
Think
it's
probably
worth
noting.
I
am
writing.
Just
fishers
will
confirm
that
as
and
when
we
extend
that
power,
it's
not
in
the
hands
of
Ministers
directly
the
a
starchy
instrument
or
delegates,
but
it
has
to
be
put
in
front
of
both
houses
and
passed
vegging.
G
B
I
sit
here
now,
I
can't
think
of
any
particular
issue.
I
mean
it
is
it
is,
it
is
I'm
sure
possible
to
sit
down
and
write
something
out
where
that
would
be
the
case,
but
I
would
I
would
say
to
you
that
this
this
is.
This
is
more
about
certainty
and
cliff
edge
and
about
dealing
with
circumstance
as
it
arises
than
it
is
about
anything
substantive
about
what
the
UK
might
or
might
want
to
do,
with
continuity
of
trade
of
trade
agreements
and.
G
G
Yes,
for
example,
supposing
a
UK
government
ministers
were
successful,
having
a
si
through
the
Corman's,
and
there
was
an
extension
of
three
years
fo
where
some
hypothetical
scenario
where
there
was
a
requirement
for
that
period
to
be
extended
as
a
consequence
of
art
for
devolved
ministers.
Would
it
be
any
barrier
to
that
sunset
provision
been
extended
by
a
father
of
three
years
for
devolved
ministers.
C
C
So
I
mean
we
would.
The
answer
is
as
part
of
the
kind
of
ongoing
process
of
engaging
the
demonstrations
in
a
trailer,
green
and
continuity.
We
would
foresee
that
you
would
imagine-
and
we
would
work
closely
with
the
with
the
colleagues
to
understand
whether
a
sunset
was
appropriate
and
you
would
imagine,
as
all
of
us
care
about
continuity,
our
you
know
on
in
our
ongoing
and
trade
relationships
and
that
we
would
be
incentivized
to
be
as
practical
as
possible
in
that
situation.
H
F
About
the
the
sunset
and
might
might
be
extendable
so,
as
the
Minister
has
explained,
these
are
about
just
continuing
the
existing
trade
agreements
and
the
power
allows
us
to
implement
in
domestic
UK
legislation
and
any
changes
that
we
might
need
to
make
to
reflect
the
fact
that
we're
taking
them
on
board
as
a
UK
only
rather
than
as
part
of
the
EU,
but
there
might
be
changes
that
we
would
need
to
make
to
keep
those
agreements
operable
over
time.
So
the
small
changes,
but
they
and
it's
still
about
continuing
the
effects
of
those
agreements.
I.
A
Thank
you
because
one
one
E
and
F
provide
that
the
UK
mana
source
of
all
the
devolved
authorities
also
have
a
power
to
make
such
provision,
as
is
considered
appropriate
and
consequence
of
any
modifications
to
the
list
of
central
government
entities
and
the
GPE
it
to
be
used
after
the
UK
has
acceded
to
the
agreement.
It
appears
that
modifications
could
be
needed
due
to
the
machinery
of
government
changes,
which
is
mentioned
in
paragraph
50
of
their
delegated
Pebbles
memorandum.
A
B
C
I'm,
not
an
expert
on
Scotland
public
entities,
but
I
can
give
you
an
example
in
terms
of
UK
government
which
I
referenced
earlier,
so
the
Department
for
International
Trade
and
the
Department
for
text
in
the
European
Union,
the
newly
established
departments
and
at
the
moment
are
included
in
our
list
of
entities
that
are
covered.
These
are
the
sorts
of
kind
of
machinery
government
changes
that
we
would
need
to
make
and
assuming
public
entities
changed
in
Scotland
to
the
same
logic
would
apply.
A
Okay,
it's
all
except
that
you're,
not
an
expert
on
the
Scottish
public
bodies,
but
same
pain
that
could
conceivably
come
back
to
the
point
that
Tom
was
missing
a
few
moths
ago.
That
could
certainly
be
points
that
it
will
be
beneficial
if
there
was
some
type
of
can
a
differential
position
that
the
Scottish
mana
source
or
Scottish
agencies
actually
would
see
to
be
better
for
for
those
particular
bodies.
So
UK
government
I
should
have
any
any
position
to
be
against
that
type
of
scenario.
A
B
To
be
sure,
I
understand
you're,
suggesting
that
we
might
use
certain
whether
we're
name
is
incorrect
or
where
something
has
to
be
changed.
There
might
be
a
desire
among
Scottish
Ministers
to
substitute
with
a
body
in
Scotland
such
that
that
body
we
use
these
powers
to
insert
that
name
is,
am
I
correct
in
how
I
assess
the
question.
B
I,
don't
know
this
for
a
fact,
but
I
suspect
that
some
of
the
quite
a
lot
of
this
is
probably
a
matter
of
negotiation
with
with
partners
in
the
agreement
about
who
cannot
and
cannot
be
included
and
whether
or
not
they
are
right
to
be
included
in
that
particular
circumstance
beyond
that.
If
officials
have
more
to
add
I
think
that
is
the
complication
there,
that's
I
suspect,
but
there
may
be,
and.
H
So,
on
the
close
to
Paris
to
implement
international
trade
agreements,
the
UK
government
has
acknowledged
in
the
delegated
Paris
memorandum,
but
obviously
the
power
is
broad
enough
to
allow
implementation
of
substantial
amendments,
including
new
obligations.
Could
you
please
explain,
explain
to
me
what
scope
is
there
for
existing
trade
agreements
between
the
EU
and
third
countries
to
be
subject
to
these
changes?
You
know
in
the
course
of
it
being
adopted
in
UK,
third
and
country
agreements.
Well,.
B
In
the
end,
we
start
it's
actually
very
similar
to
the
GPA.
We
start
out
with
a
position
that
what
we're
looking
to
do
is
create
continuity.
So
in
every
case
where
we
are
negotiating
with
partners
to
roll
these
agreements
over,
we
will
be
looking
for
just
that
as
few
changes
as
possible
to
provide
certainty
now
over
time.
B
That
means
that
there
is
a
very
real
impetus
on,
and
a
stimulus
for,
the
UK
government
to
try
and
design
these
these
these
rollover,
such
that
they
have
very
little
in
the
way
of
change
and
so
I
would
not
expect
that
in
the
vast
majority
of
cases,
we
would
find
that
there
is
any
substantive
difference
now
if
it
is
the
case
that
there
is
a
substantive
difference.
One
of
the
changes
that
was
made
in
the
bill
was
that
a
memorandum
will
be
an
explanatory
document
will
be
placed
before
the
house
before
ratification.
B
That
tells
the
house
exactly
how
an
agreement
has
changed,
where
what
not
necessarily
all
the
language
absolutely.
But
what
all
the
purposes
are.
The
changes
further,
we
agreed
with
Jonathan
ugly
of
a
new
Clause
6
and
dealing
with
that
whole
issue
about
scrutiny.
That's
the
best
way
of
then
laying
statutory
instruments
was
to
be
have
an
affirmative
procedure
search.
B
The
department
has
a
genuine
time
to
look
at
it
and
has
to
vote
on
it,
and
that's
the
explanatory
memorandum
for
each
of
those
delegated
of
those
instruments
would
point
absolutely
back
to
report
upon
the
changes
in
the
agreement
and
say
which
of
those
changes.
This
delegated
instrument
actually
affected,
so
that
will
give
Parliament
very
real
scrutiny
and
ability
to
scrutinize
and
full
understanding
of
what
exactly
it
is
they're
being
asked
to
agree
to.
B
So
there
are
all
sorts
of
checks
and
balances
at
every
stage,
and
we
believe
that
that
gives
Parliament
certainty
gives
it
understanding
and
gives
it
the
right
to
scrutinize
that
considerable
depth,
which
should
allow
everyone
to
understand
what
changes
are
being
made
and
whether
or
not
they
agree
with
them.
Ok,.
H
So,
following
on
for
that,
if
I
could
just
go
back
to
the
school
pass
bait,
you
know
what
scope
is
there
for
these
regulations
to
actually
meet
by
the
Scottish
Government
under
Clause
2,
to
make
significant
changes
in
co2
mastic
law?
You
know
you
if
you
could
think
of
some
examples
you
know
of
how
could
these
be
actually
implanted
in
Scotland
I.
B
B
If
this
will
all
be
subject
to
the
same
that
the
difficulties
we've
all
encountered,
thus
far
about
section
12
powers
and
so
on
and
so
forth,
but
that
that
is
how
the
Scottish
Government
will
be
involved
in
this,
that
they
will
be.
They
will
implement
the
required
changes
to
make
this
work
in
how
they
see
fit
in
their
own
Parliament,
but
perhaps
another
would
yep.
B
H
Well,
could
I
go
on
then,
and
just
ask
you:
why
has
it
been
considered
appropriate
that
the
trade
agreements
to
which
clause
ii
actually
applies
should
be
implemented
by
regulations
rather
the
primary
legislation?
You
know,
especially,
you
know
when
that
appears
that,
at
the
point
of
the
proposed
implementation
agreements
in
place
before
the
exit,
D
may
not
have
been
ratified
by
the
EU
or
substantive
changes
to
existing
agreements
might
not.
You
have
been
made
I.
B
B
There
are
40
agreements,
we'd
like
to
transition,
there's
a
little
bit
of
legislation
going
through
Parliament
at
the
moment,
I
think
for
pure
practical
purposes.
We
need
to
remember
two
things.
First
of
all,
these
are
all
agreements
that
have
been
operable
in
the
EU
for
at
least
some
times,
I'm
actually
very
recently,
but
a
lot
for
really
quite
a
long
time.
They've
been
fully
scrutinized
before
they
are
on
the
books
in
effectively
in
UK
law
and,
yes,
they
may
have
some
changes,
but
I've
outlined
the
scrutiny
that
can
be
involved
in
that.
B
So
these
are
well
understood
agreements
they
work,
our
partners
want
them
if
they
didn't,
they
wouldn't
be
coming
forwards
and
we
wouldn't
be
able
to
agreement.
So
there
is
no
great
impetus
to
have
fresh
primary
legislation
simply
because
they're
already
existing
they
used
and
they're
on
the
statute.
Book
and
capacity
would
be
a
very
serious
issue.
F
D
B
There's
no
issue
policy
to
discuss
this
is
simply
about
accession
to
and
changing
words.
It's
it
without.
The
whole
purpose
of
this
is
to
bring
into
UK
law
what
everybody
already
uses
in
UK
law
and
what
governs
UK
law
and
therefore
it
is
well-known
and
well-understood,
and
what
what
is
being
changed.
It's
simply
about
about
words
that
needs
to
be
changed,
lists
that
needs
to
be
change
and
reflect
accessions,
and
so
it
it
is
something
where
it
can
sit
on
the
negative
procedure.
B
Any
member
of
parliament
who
feels
that
there's
some
problem
with
this
and
I'm,
not
quite
sure
I,
can
understand
what
the
problems
would
be
but
can
pray
against,
and
there
can
be
a
vote
in
parliament
on
the
deferred
division,
but
I
think
we
feel
that
that
this
does
not
need
a
great
deal
of
scrutiny.
It
is
simply
trying
to
elucidate
so
Trent
it
to
legalize
a
fact.
Rather
than
put
in
policy
in
place,
the
policy
is
adopting
the
GPA.
The
this
is
simply
a
matter
of
practicality,.
D
D
I
Some
explanation
on
some
terminology:
perhaps
you
can
help
with
first
layer
on
Clause
2
now
it
might
have
been
some
time
ago,
but
the
academic
experts
who
appeared
before
the
Finance
and
Constitution
committees,
discussion
of
the
bill
on
the
21st
of
February,
raised
concerns
about
the
clarity
and
potential
width
of
Clause
2,
as
it
applies
not
only
to
international
trade
agreements,
which
are
free
trade
agreements,
but
also
to
an
international
agreement.
Only
relates
to
trait,
not
expression.
I,
don't
think,
is
further
defined
in
clause
eight
one.
B
C
Quite
simply,
speaking,
agreement
that
mainly
relates
to
trade
is
one
that
has
trade
as
its
content,
the
majority
of
its
content.
So
it's
a
fairly
simple
explanation
and
an
example
of
the
type
of
agreement
that
this
could
cover
would
be
an
association
agreement.
It
should
the
majority
of
the
the
agreement
cover
trade
related
items.
It's.
I
I
Well,
another
one:
let's
see
how
we
get
on
with
with
this
one,
then,
similarly
to
clause
1
Clause
2
enables
the
Scottish
government
to
make
regulations,
as
they
consider
appropriate
to
implement
the
relevant
trade
agreements.
I,
don't
know
if
that's
also
the
mainly
relating
to
trade
agreements
but
Sam.
Why
is
that
subjective
formulation
justified
rather
than
the
power
to
make
such
provision
as
is
necessary
as
they
consider
appropriate
verses.
B
Have
to
parliamentary
Clarke's
I
suspect,
I'm,
afraid
that
it
we're
getting
there
I've
actually
asked
to
go
and
see
the
Parliament
o'clock
to
say
thank
you
for
the
work
they
did
in
the
trade
bill.
Perhaps
I'll
ask
them
when
I
go
there,
but
in
all
seriousness,
we'll
take
that
if
we
may
convene
a
and
give
you
a
technical
reply
to
it
by
by
letter
that,
if
that's
agreeable,
no
not
be
helpful.
Okay,.
G
G
B
You
green
continuity
and
again
Allen's
had
these
digital
discussion
with
officials,
but
my
impression
is
that,
on
the
whole,
the
process
that
I
described
to
you
about
how
we
will
bring
forward
the
changes
and
how
we
will
describe
those
and
reference
them
and
place
them
against
the
the
rubric
of
the
text
that
says
how
we've
changed
it
versus
the
technical
instruments
that
we
say
require
to
change.
This
particular
aspect
of
it
should
give
any
observer
with
access
to
the
parliamentary
website
more
than
sufficient
access.
Now
to
that
to
that
detail.
B
Now,
if
you
wanted
a
thought,
a
commitment
here
for
that
officials
will
point
fish
at
this
end
to
the
right
documents
at
the
right
time
and
or
find
some
mechanism
for
tellings
Scotland
that
these
these
issues
are
arising.
I
think
we
would
happily
commit
to
that,
but
I
suspect
that
Scottish
officials
are
already
already
have
those
sorts
of
arrangements
in
place
for
themselves
and
anything
to
add.
C
Just
agreeing
with
the
minister
that
that,
as
he
mentioned,
the
document
that
we're
laid
before
Parliament
will
be
publicly
available
and
the
Scottish
Parliament
can
review
it
as
it
wishes.
Of
course,
in
advance
of
that.
We're
working
closely
on
the
trade
agreement
continuity
program
with
Scottish
government
officials
throughout
okay.
A
Santé
paragraph
three:
they
all
showed
you
one
of
the
bill-
puts
requirements
on
the
Scottish
government
to
consult
with
yuki-onna
cells
in
certain
circumstances
before
making
regulations.
Now
this
applies.
If
we're
the
regulations
with
make
provision
about
quarter
Arrangements
or
which
are
incompatible
with
1/4
Arrangements.
It
also
applies
to
other
regulations.
There
would
be
commenced
before
exit
B.
Can
you
explain
why
the
provision
for
consultation
is
actually
considered
appropriate
and
how,
in
relation
to
quarters
and
Scotland,
is
invited
that
the
consultation
requirement
will
actually
operate?
Okay,.
B
I
think
the
first
thing
I'd
say
is
that,
of
course,
this
is
one
of
the
areas
where
the
immense
were
made
to
the
bill
to
change
this
substantively
I
forget
whether
it
was
seek
permission
before
it
was
seek.
Consent
so
previously
was
seek
consent
and
it
became
to
consult.
So
the
UK
government
has
already
recognized
that
this
is
a
sensible
area
in
which
to
change
the
language
in
the
bill
to
make
to
allow
the
Scottish
Government
to
control
this
issue
in
and
of
themselves.
I
think
it
is
not
unreasonable
and,
frankly
not.
B
It
is
just
sensible
for
the
government
of
Scotland
to
want
to
consult
with
the
UK
government
just
to
make
sure
that
there
isn't
some
implication
that
they
had
had
not
thought
about.
It
doesn't
imply
consent
in
any
way,
shape
or
form,
but
I
think
it
probably
is
just
good
governance
to
make
sure
that
actually
there's
something
you
hadn't
missed,
or
indeed
a
plan
that
is
coming
out
of
the
UK
government,
which
neither
side
has
yet
communicated
about
which
puts
in
a
potential
wrinkle
or
a
complication.
B
A
Now,
certainly,
you
mentioned
in
terms
of
the
amendments
that
were
made
the
bail
out
the
report
stage
in
in
the
Commons.
The
amendments
to
the
bill
have
aligned
the
restrictions
and
limitations
on
menses
bubbles
before
was
in
the
EU
withdraw
liked,
and
that
this
includes
the
restriction
and
using
the
powers
and
clauses
one
and
two
to
modify
or
detain
the
rate
EU
legislation,
no
detainee
law
in
breach
of
new
section,
31
and
57
four
of
the
Scotland
Act
since,
after
by
section
12
of
the
EU,
withdraw
liked.
A
B
Don't
believe
so
that
the
simple
fact
is
that,
as
the
UK
leaves
the
EU,
the
Scottish
government
will
have
far
more
powers
than
had
previously
to
control
issues
which
were
previously
controlled
by
the
EU
there.
The
UK
government
has
a
responsibility
to
look
after
the
interests
of
the
whole,
of
the
EU
of
the
UK,
of
course,
and
there
are
certain
issues
which
are
under
considerable
negative
negotiation
and
which
have
changed
considerably
over
time
and
we're
both
Parliament.
B
Both
government
governments
are
having
very
constructive
negotiations
about
which
of
these
areas
should
be
reserved
for
the
UK
to
be
able
to
act
in
exclusively
and
those
negotiations
to
go
on.
It's
not
my
job
to
preempt
those
the
powers
in
the
EU
W
a
bill
and
the
section
at
the
schedule.
12
restrictions
I,
know
are
contentious
and
it
is
not
within
my
gift
to
to
vary
those.
A
B
You
may
call
as
a
paragraph
but
I,
don't
I'm,
afraid,
agree
with
that
term.
It
seems
to
me
that
it's
the
right
and
proper
responsibility
of
the
United
Kingdom
government
to
over
a
period
of
time
work
out
how
it
will
deal
effectively
with
the
interests
of
the
to
Kingdom
as
a
whole
single
market.
It
has
to
make
those
assessments.
It
has
to
be
careful
not
to
create
distortions
in
the
UK
market.
I,
don't
think
that's
a
paragraph
at
all
I
think.
Well,
that
is
as
good
and
responsible
government
in
due
course.
B
A
And
one
cannot
just
final
variation,
hoping
a
woman,
no
just
something
just
on
the
issue
you
mentioned
a
few
months
ago,
just
on
the
issue
of
consultation
and
dialogue-
and
this
was
also
mentioned
in
the
earlier
session.
The
nature
pattern
and
I
think
that's
extremely
beneficial,
and
all
this
isn't
to
do
with
the
trade
bill,
but
general
is
extremely
helpful
and
that
there
has
been
more
dialogue
taking
place,
but
clearly
that's
on
the
backdrop
of
of
a
situation,
particularly
GMC
process.
A
That
has
been
extremely
pure
to
say
the
least,
and
and
all
that
the
make
Brussels
until
they
in
evidence.
Given
two
of
our
committees
in
this
partner
and
also
in
the
chamber,
he
is
clearly
indicated
his
frustration
at
the
level
of
consultation
and
lack
of
consultation
and
the
the
believe,
after
all,
laid
out
as
a
very
good
example.
I
all
thought
that
the
scottish
come
didn't
know
about
it
and
well
didn't
see
it
until
was
I
stopped.
Can
you
provide
that
a
commitment
today,
but
that
level
of
the
dialogue
aren't
consultation?
A
B
For
my
department
and
I
can
only
in
this
instance
speak
about
the
negotiation
in
future
trade
agreements.
I
am
absolutely
determined,
as
is
the
Secretary
of
State.
That's
the
consultations.
We
make
will
be
meaningful,
they'll
be
wide
and
they'll
be
deep
and
we
will
take
it
to
the
into
account
the
interests
of
all
potential
party
interested
parties,
and
that
certainly
includes
the
devolved
authorities.
We
are
not
yet
set
on
exactly
how
we
will
involve
the
developer
thority.
That
is
a
matter.
B
That's
could
be
negotiated
on
the
one
hand
and
I'll
be
quite
honest
with
you
I'm
not
entirely
at
one
with
the
future.
I
haven't
yet
absolutely
formulated
exactly
I.
Want
that
to
happen.
Indeed,
out,
I
need
to
consult
with
the
Secretary
of
State,
but
I
can
make
you
the
commitment
that
I
believe
that
we
will
the
more
we
consult
the
more
we
listen
then
more.
We
integrate
the
needs
and
desires,
assuming
that
they
don't
disrupt
other
potential
partners
from
in
devolved
authorities
with
us.
B
A
B
The
government
has
put
forward
what
is
a
credible
plan
for
extinct,
your
Union,
it
fulfills
all
the
obligations
and
promises
that
the
Prime
Minister
made
and
the
directives
that
we
were
following
free
and
fiction's
borders
and
into
free
movement.
I
could
recite
the
entire
list,
but
I
think
you
both
probably
read
it
a
couple
of
times
before
it
is
the
only
credible
offer
out
there
to
try
and
finish
this
negotiation
out.
I
believe
it
has
a
very
good
chance
of
succeeding.
B
Pragmatists
across
Europe
will
be
saying
to
themselves.
This
seems
like
a
a
sensible
idea.
It
solves
the
Northern
Irish
issue.
It
allows
free
trade
to
continue.
It
creates
friction
as
borders.
Can
we
just
get
on
and
create
an
agreement?
So
yes,
I
believe
there
is.
There
is
a
force
across
Europe
that
can
combine
to
ensure
that
this
sensible
and
practical
proposal
comes
into
fruition.
So.