►
From YouTube: Economy, Jobs and Fair Work Committee - 29 May 2018
Description
1. Decision on taking business in private: The Committee will decide whether to take items
3, 4 and 5 in private.
2. Impact of Bank Closures: The Committee will take evidence from Keith Dryburgh, Policy Manager, Citizens Advice Scotland;
Paul Alexander, Head of Business Development and Sales Strategy, Scottish Building
Society;
Professor Cliff Beevers, Councillor, Juniper Green and Baberton Mains Community
Council;
Allister Mackillop, Chair, Currie Community Council;
Lyn Turner, Regional Officer, Unite Scotland.
3. Impact of Bank Closures: The Committee will consider evidence heard at today's meeting.
4. Work programme: The Committee will consider its work programme.
5. Scotland's Economic Performance: The Committee will consider a draft report.
Published by the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body.
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A
Well
good
morning
and
welcome
to
the
19th
meeting
of
the
economy,
jobs
and
Fair
Work
committee
for
2018
may
ask
everyone
present
turn
off
or
turn
to
silent.
Any
electrical
devices
we've
received.
Apologies
from
committee
member
caasie
at
Dugdale,
and
also
apologies
from
Dean
lockhardt
for
this
session.
He'll
be
joining
us
later,
as
well
as
a
couple
of
other
members
who
will
be
joining
us
shortly.
A
Item
one
as
a
decision
by
the
committee
to
take
items:
3,
4,
&,
5
in
private.
Are
we
all
agreed?
Yes,
thank
you.
Now
we
turn
to
our
inquiry
on
the
impact
of
bank
closures
and,
first
of
all,
before
I
go
on
to
ask
the
committee
members
to
introduce
themselves
the
witnesses
we
have
today
as
I
face
the
panel
of
witnesses
from
left
to
right.
A
First
of
all,
professor
cliff
Bevers,
who
is
the
chairman
of
Juniper
green
Community,
Council
Allister
mckillop,
who
is
the
chair
of
Korea,
Community
Council,
then
Paul,
Alexander,
head
of
business
development
and
sales
strategy
at
the
Scottish,
Building,
Society,
lynn,
turner,
regional
officer
of
unite
scotland
and
finally,
Keith
Driver,
a
policy
manager
at
Citizens,
Advice,
Scotland,
so
I'd
welcome.
All
of
our
witnesses
today
and
then
I'll
ask
committee
members,
perhaps
just
to
introduce
themselves
by
name
starting
on
my
right.
A
Lyndhurst
committee,
member
MSP
for
Lothian
and
a
white,
my
name
is
B
for
Lilly.
Thank
you
very
much.
If
I
could
start
with
the
fairly
general
opening
question
and
I
know
that
evidence
has
been
submitted
in
writing
to
the
committee.
So
perhaps
you
could
just
start
off
and
perhaps
I
could
indicate.
There's
no
need
to
operate
the
microphones.
This
will
be
operated
by
the
sound
s
or
no
need
to
press
any
buttons.
And
if
you
want
to
come
in
in
answer
or
response
to
questions,
don't
feel
you
need
to
answer
every
question.
A
But
if
you
could
indicate
you'd
like
to
come
in
simply
by
raising
your
hand,
then
I'll
try
and
bring
you
in,
as
as
we
can
now.
If
there
are
any
areas
that
you
don't
feel
you've
been
able
to
cover
today
or
provide
full
detail,
because
we
have
limited
time
in
this
session,
then
please
do
so
in
writing.
Following
the
session
that
option
is,
is
available
to
all
of
our
witnesses
here
today.
G
Lynn,
turner
chair,
I
would
say
that
both
communities
and
employees
are
affected
by
the
decision
of
rvs
if
I
can
just
touch
on
the
employees
at
the
moment
you
know
they've
had
this
is
the
fifth
round
of
branch
closure
since
I've
been
an
officer
of
RBS
and
clearly
this
last
announcement
on
the
1st
of
December,
which
is
no
452,
which
inevitably
will
be
62.
Branch
closures
as
I
had
a
detrimental
effect
or
not
on
you
only
employees,
but
also
the
communities
that
it
serves
and
has
been
there
for
a
number
of
years.
I.
H
You
Gordon
personally,
my
focus
really
is
on
those
people
living
with
dementia
and
the
elderly
and
those
living
with
isolation
and,
whilst
I
fully
accept
that
the
the
foot,
traffic
and
branches
has
reduced
dramatically
for
those
who
are
left.
It
is
a
hugely
important
asset
for
the
community
and
for
for
these
people
in
particular,
because
they
aren't
able
to
travel
through
take
example
of
curry.
It's
two
buses
that
they
would
have
to
get
to
get
to
the
nearest
branch
and
it's
totally
unacceptable.
H
I
feel
for
banks
to
to
just
dispose
of
what
are
very
long
serving
customers
of
the
banks.
I
mean
I've,
been
speaking
to,
ladies
and
gentlemen,
have
been
30
odd
years,
plus
with
the
Bank
of
Scotland
and
Royal
Bank
of
Scotland
and
I.
Think
it's
very,
very
short-sighted
that
they're
almost
throwing
the
baby
out
with
the
bathwater,
rather
than
look
for
other
avenues,
for
example,
of
smaller
branches
or
part-time
branches,
or
using
them
in
conjunction
with
something
else.
H
They
have
just
decided
to
just
to
close
them
and
to
leave
the
the
communities
that
they
served
with
with
very
very
few
amenities.
When
we
have
lost
the
the
banks
we
have
lost,
we
are
possibly
going
to
lose
our
school
there's
very
little
left
and
I
think
bearing
in
mind
that
the
Royal
Bank,
especially
who
are
partly
still
partly
owned
by
by
ourselves
and
they're,
making
a
substantial
profits
of
one
over
a
billion
pounds
really
have
to
look
at
themselves
and
decide
who
do
they
serve.
H
I
I
It's
always
see
the
elderly,
the
disabled,
in
our
communities
that
are
most
affected
number
of
disabilities.
Our
problems
kept
going
online.
My
own
problem
with
having
to
use
a
screen
reader,
but
that's
not
the
only
problem.
There
are
people
who
can't
remember
the
long
list
of
numbers
that
they
have
to
have
in
order
to
access
a
bank
account
online
or
by
telephone.
I
The
fishmonger
in
juniper
green
tells
me
that
since
RBS
closed
he's
down
15
to
20
percent
on
his
takings,
he
checked
with
a
colleague
near
golden
acre
where
two
banks
are
closed
and
apparently
he's
down
20
to
25%
on
takings.
Now
these
small
retailers
and
shopkeepers
in
our
communities
are
the
lifeblood
of
the
community,
because
let
me
give
you
an
example
of
two
or
three
weeks
ago:
when
the
snow
came.
I
Suddenly
it
was
the
fishmonger,
the
butcher
and
the
green
grocer
in
our
communities
that
kept
people
with
food
when
the
big
beasts
of
Commerce
had
their
lorry
stuck
on
the
motorways
of
Scotland,
so
they're
not
only
important
to
keep
the
trade,
but
they
also
keep
the
social
fabric
of
a
community.
Together,
there
you'll
be
asking
for
a
research
at
some
stage.
There
is
a
piece
of
research
from
UK
government
in
December
2016,
which
indicates
when
a
bank
leaves
an
area.
63
percent
of
investment
is
lost
in
that
community.
I
I
J
For
our
and
prospect
well
from
our
effective
our
members
of
service
stamp
through
Scotland,
with
five
branches
and
a
network
of
local
agents.
Now
these
local
agents
are
generally
solicitors
officers
and
what
happens
is
our
members
can
pay
in
money
into
their
savings
accounts?
They
can
take
money
out
to
the
seaman's
camps
through
these
agents.
Now
they
need
to
have
a
link
to
a
local
bank
to
pee
in
the
cash
to
pee
in
the
the
checks
they
take
in
and
at
times
to
top-up,
their
cash
floats.
J
So
this
year
we've
got
for
serving
our
members,
particularly
in
the
rural
areas.
Is
that
if
we
see
the
closure
of
that
banking
connection,
it's
very
difficult
for
us
to
maintain
the
agents
offices
and
and
how
they
can
deal
with
the
savings
transactions?
Now
we
can
do
it
through
a
local
post
office.
But,
as
we
know,
some
of
the
post
offices
can
be
parts
of
retail
shops.
J
The
security
elements
around
somebody
am
taking
cash
or
large
amount
of
checks
to
pay
into
a
post
office
and
we
are
not
protected
and
the
same
way
from
fraud
and
and
also-
and
you
know,
other
threats
as
well,
so
there's
an
impact
to
our
members.
Certainly
if
banks
work
loosely
particularly
the
rural
areas,.
K
Citizens
Advice
pure
advise
about
two
hundred
and
ten
thousand
consumers.
Each
year
across
Scotland's,
we
consulted
with
the
bureau
there
in
the
areas
there
are
going
to
be
worst
affected
by
the
bank
closures
or
who
have
already
been
affected,
and
what
was
clear
from
what
they
were
saying
is
it's.
The
the
people
that
are
most
vulnerable
to
change
are
the
ones
that
are
going
to
be
affected,
so
the
people
are
they're
more
likely
to
have
problems.
K
We
did
work
a
couple
of
years
ago,
looking
at
access
to
banks
through
public
chance
work,
we
found
that
people
living
in
rural
areas
typically
had
to
travel
about
40
minute
round-trip
to
their
bank
using
buses.
I
think!
That's
going
to
increase
significantly
as
as
bank
the
bank
closures
take
place
and,
lastly,
just
to
echo
the
points
and
businesses
actually
says
in
the
Vice
Bureau
raised
that
small
businesses
are
going
to
be
really
badly
affected
in
terms
of
getting
change,
depositing
cash,
and
that
applies
equally
actually
to
charities
and
community
groups
that
rely
on.
K
You
know
small
months
of
cash,
depositing
substant
things
like
that,
and
since
the
Weisse
period
themselves
are
saying,
missus,
there's
a
security
risk
for
them.
That's
adding
a
lot
of
pressure
to
volunteers,
so
there's
an
impact
right
across
burnable
consumers,
businesses
and
you
know,
charities
and
community
groups.
Thank.
L
You
very
much
convener
thanks
for
coming
this
morning.
Obviously
branch
had
been
closing
for
some
time,
though
Lind
you
were
mentioning
previous
closure
programs,
and
concern
has
led
to
the
developed
of
the
access
to
banking
standard,
which
requires
advance
notice
and
public
impact
assessments.
Making
customers
aware
of
alternative
solutions
in
any
bank
closures.
You're
involved
with,
are
you
aware
of
this
exercise?
Having
been
carried
out?
Can.
G
I
just
say
the
realm
before
this
one:
I
looked
at
the
wittman
branch
closure
in
West
Lothian
and
if
you
had
a
look
at
the
impact
assessment
done
they
clearly
that's
not
an
impact
assessment
and
we
raised
that
in
fact
of
the
Scotts
Affairs
Select
Committee,
because
you
know
it's
numbers
on
on
a
website.
But
it
doesn't
tell
you
anything
with
regards
to
the
the
impact
on
that
branch
closures,
vulnerable
customers,
all
that
kind
of
stuff.
G
H
Yeah
just
to
reflect
on
the
Bank
of
Scotland,
gotten
McDonald
and
myself,
amongst
others,
visited
the
Bank
of
Scotland
when
they
were
deciding
to
close
a
branch
and
curry
and
the
impact
analysis.
There
was
an
absolute
disgrace:
it
was
a
tick
box
exercise.
It
was
purely
100
percent
one-sided.
They
all
really
were
looking
at
was
football.
They
actually
admitted
to
us
that
the
the
customers
in
curry
were
actually
first-rate,
brilliant
customers,
which
is
what
they
didn't
want,
because
basically
they
can't
make
money
off
of
us
because
they've
already
got
mortgages.
They
don't
want
insurance.
H
The
substantial
amount
of
savings,
but
again
they
weren't
interested
in
and
the
risk
assessment,
as
you
create
regular
said,
and
the
Bank
of
Scotland
certainly
did
not
make
any
a
consideration
to
those
who
are
living
in
isolation
of
loneliness.
Basically,
they
said
well,
there's
going
to
be
the
internet
access
going
with
it,
bearing
in
mind
that
and
rural
areas
like
ourselves
to
Carlinville
err.
No,
the
broadband
is
internal,
quite
slow
and
often
prone
to
breakdown,
and
it's
an
argument
that
it
really
is
is
an
argument.
In
my
opinion,
huge.
K
Driver
on
what
worries
me
most
about
the
the
business
assessments
and
access
to
bank
banking
standards
is
that
there's
no
constant
consultation
with
community
groups,
or
indeed,
consumers
or
customers,
and
so
make
an
impact
assessment
without
really
asking
what
the
impact
is
going
to
be
on
actual
people,
and
so
it's
very
much
a
business
lads
assessment
and
I
think
going
forward.
You
actually
need
to
consult
with
community
about
what
the
alternatives
are,
what
the
impact
is
going
to
be
before
he
can
make
that
assessment
or
make
a
decision.
I
Goldie,
please
I'll
do
that.
Thank
you
very
much,
and
the
access
to
banking
protocol
was
something
that
we
picked
up
fairly
early
on
when
RBS
decided,
closing
juniper
green.
When
we
looked
at
that
document,
it
was
clear
that
the
only
thing
that
you
could
hold
them
to
account
on
was
the
Equality
Act
and
even
then
it
was
easy
for
them
to
dance
around
the
fact
that
they
weren't
going
to
cover
issues
of
disability
for
people
in
in
our
community.
I
The
access
to
banking
protocol
is
worthless.
It's
just
a
piece
of
paper
that
allows
the
banks
to
pretend
that
they
are
consulting
with
communities.
In
my
experience,
there
was
no
consultation
whatsoever.
It
was
a
an
exercise
that
was
decided
in
the
headquarters,
and
the
group
that
came
to
talk
to
the
community
was
simply
told
you're,
closing
the
branch
and
you're
taking
the
ATM
as
well,
and
that's
also
a
big
issue
for
us
in
juniper
Greene,
because
we
have
no
post
office
nor
any
ATM.
G
On
the
evidence
on
the
17th
of
January
that
RBS
cave
to
the
Scots
Affairs
Select
Committee,
when
it
was
the
CEO
for
personal
and
business
banking
said
we
don't
have
to
consult
with
communities
yeah.
You
know
I
just
thought
that
was
ludicrous
and,
incidentally,
he's
been
asked
to
appear
in
front
of
many
public
meetings
in
the
borders
and
has
refused
to
do
that.
H
Whatsoever
all
that
interested
and
why
it's
logically
about
you,
know
seventy
percent
drop
and
for
only
eighty
people
come
during
the
day.
So
basically,
it's
all
about
money,
it's
not
what
they're!
Well,
they
don't
even
consider
that
of
downsizing
the
branch
or
doing
anything
different.
They
just
use
that
as
a
big
stick
to
hit
as
worth
this
in
you're,
not
using
it
so
you're
going
to
lose
it
and
the
the
that
is
their
impact
assessment.
H
I
I
I
L
I
That's
and
obviously
not
a
step
I
can
take,
because
all
I
can
do
is
claim
it
tell
you
what
he
claims
to
me,
which
is
the
since
the
bank
closed,
he's,
15
to
20
percent
down
and
and
I
said,
he's
not
true
swear
and
he
went
and
checked
with
another
one
of
his
colleagues.
The
the
one
mentioned
at
golden
acre.
H
What
happens,
though,
is
they
have
to
go
atone
so
rather
than
have
the
money,
then
coming
all
the
way
back
to
Cuddy,
they
just
buy
the
short
nudist
that
particular
branch,
which
is
there.
So
that's
why
the
they
are
concerned
that
they're
losing
they're
losing
a
foot
fault
traffic,
because
people,
because
they're
in
the
bank-
and
we
were
all
the
shops
just
across
the
road
I'll-
do
all
that
one.
So
that's
really
with
I
feel
didn't
Alcorn
affect
us.
That's
anecdotal,
domina,
I!
Can't
thanks.
A
E
F
I
think
aiming
maybe
it
must
have
Turner
for
starters,
although
others
might
want
to
comment
on
this.
I
think
unite,
have
made
some
quite
strong,
a
comments
about
all
of
us,
which
I
think
it's
helpful.
I
have
to
say
for
the
committee
it
and
of
what
people
are
thinking
specifically
I.
Think
I'm
right
in
saying
that
you've
said
that
RBS
has
misled
the
public
on
a
number
of
counts,
and
these
are
particularly
measurement
of
footfall,
a
skill
of
job
losses
and
the
costs
or
savings
of
the
proposed
closures.
G
If
we
start
with
footfall,
the
information
presented
to
me
is,
let's
take
my
league,
for
instance,
it
has
nine
customers.
In
fact
it
has
1,001
customers.
The
nine
customers
at
RBS
Congress
was
nine
customers
who
come
into
the
branch
on
a
weekly
basis.
So
the
evidence
that
was
presented
to
me,
it
was
no
RBS
in
my
league-
only
have
nine
customers.
That's
why
we're
closing
it
not
true
at
all.
So.
C
G
G
This
is
the
fifth
round
of
branch
closures
that
I've
taken
on
and
being
with
Rob
officer
for
RBS.
If
you
continue
to
reduce
the
branch
net,
where
people
will
go
to
the
next
RBS
branch,
then
people
go
to
the
next
RBS
branch.
People
are
actually
queuing
out.
The
door
know
at
lunch
times
in
RBS
branches.
Yes,.
G
F
Well,
certainly,
my
experience
and
shettles
know
when
they
closed
our
branch
that
tea
I
used
it
and
it
was
well
used
and
there
was
you
always
had
to
queue
when
I
was
my
experience
and
then
but
it
still
was
closed.
So
just
going
listen,
I'm
in
contribute,
this
word
footfall
and
what
they
mean
by
and
what
most
of
us
would
mean
by
it,
because
if
it's
only
customers
that
they're
measuring,
do
you
think
they're
actually
measuring
how
many
people
cross
the
door
every
week
or
is
that
not
even
being.
G
F
Theoretically,
they
could
have
a
city
centre
branch,
see
with
no
actual
customers
for
that
branch,
but
that
branch
could
still
be
very,
very
busy
because
loads
of
people
who
work
in
the
SE
Center
and
have
their
branch
elsewhere.
You
are
actually
using
that
branch,
but
they
would
end
up
seeing
that
the
food
for
was
no
yeah.
C
G
F
Many
of
us
use
I
mean
I,
live
in
Glasgow,
but
I'm
in
Edinburgh
most
of
the
week,
so
I
use
banks
in
Edinburgh
as
well.
So
that's
how
your
branch
amazed
or
intrigued
or
whatever,
a
that
that's
the
way
they
measure
footfall.
Okay,
if
the
the
third
one
was
the
costs
and
savings.
Can
you
say
anything
about
that
and.
G
Well,
obviously,
RBS
have
said
that
the
sixty
two
branches
would
cost
nine
point,
five
million
poem,
which
is
what
0.01%
of
their
that
their
profit
that
they
announced
their
in
in
February
March.
You
know
this
is
a.
This
is
a
closure
program
that
did
not
have
to
happen.
This
is
purely
driven
by
profit
and
RBS.
Turning
its
back
on
local
communities
do.
G
Rbs
I've
said
that
they
will
actually
openly
take
people
to
the
post
office.
So
if
I,
you
know
I
laugh,
but
it's
it's.
You
know
it's
not
funny.
You
know
in
respect
of
a
branch
colleague,
will
take
someone
to
the
post
office
to
show
them
how
to
use
the
post
office
and
and
the
UK
Minister
has
also
said.
Well,
they
can
vote
with
their
feet
so
you're
a
seventy
percent
owned
British
taxpayer
organization
and
the
Menace
that
was
responsible
for
RBS
and
their
brief,
says
yeah.
Well,
they
can
vote.
Customers
can
vote
with
their
feet.
G
F
J
J
J
F
H
You
very
very
briefly
just
to
give
you
an
idea
when,
when
we
had
three
banks,
Palermo
Currie
banker
Scotland's
the
middle
of
its
two
royal
banks.
When
the
Palermo
bank
closed
all
the
customers
shorted
to
Juniper
green.
When
Bank
of
Scotland
closed
all
the
customers
trotted
to
Juniper
dreamed,
which
was
absolutely
filled
through
the
bust,
but
it's
then
decide
what
we're
going
to
close
the
Royal
Bank
of
Scotland
and
June
of
green
as
well.
H
So
there
was
no
logic
about
football
because
they
were,
they
were
getting
three
banks
into
one
and
even
so,
and
cliff
fought
very,
very
hard
to
retain
the
branch
and
gentleman
green.
They
were
didn't
care
about
that.
They
just
wanted
to
close
the
banks.
The
banks
end
the
story,
so
they're,
really
the
justification
of
a
low
footfall
doesn't
really
stand
up.
H
Else,
I'm
very,
very
glad.
You
use
that
what
because
you're
absolutely
correct
it
is
forced
people
are
being
forced
to
want
to
online,
irrespective
of
their
their
needs
are
going
to
be
serviced
by
that
as
I
gay
as
ice
talking
about
you
know
those
living
with
dementia,
etc
and
cliff
alluded
to
these
people.
There
is
no
way
in
the
world.
These
people
would
remember
passwords,
etc.
So
they're
going
to
be
wide
open
to
fraud
and
to
all
other
sorts
of
nasty
experiences.
But
again
the
banks
I'm
not
really
interested.
H
Now
there
when
we
got
an
oversight
in
the
Bank
of
Scotland,
they
basically
said
that.
Well,
well,
you
know,
just
you
let
your
feet.
Do
turtle
walk
if
you
don't
like
what
we're
doing
as
bankers
got
and
go
to
another
branch
or
go
online,
it's
not
as
simple
as
that,
but
the
the
the
banks
are
allowed
to
get
away
with
that
by
by
saying.
Well,
it
is
simple,
because
there's
little
food
for
and
there's
no
real
evidence
of
that
I
mean
it's
just
it's
just
a
cost-cutting
exercise
for
cost
cuttings,
seek
I,
think
Oh.
H
I
Just
to
say,
we
can't
all
be
wrong.
I
know
it's
all
anecdotal,
but
we
all
go
into
branches
and
the
queues
are
out
the
door
and
the
queues
were
out
of
the
door
in
Juniper
green
when
they
closed
it.
On
the
argument
of
football,
that's
number
one
number
two:
where
is
the
geography
in
these
people?
I
mean
this
is
the
headquarters
of
RBS
and
this
they
didn't
seem
to
know
that
the
a70
would
no
longer
have
a
bank
along
its
stretch
and
that's
20,000
people.
I
I
They're
not
a
lot:
they,
they
hide
behind
the
commercial
confidentiality
I'm
sure,
but
it
would
have
been
a
sensible
thing
to
do
for
the
community
and
for
the
country
to
do
it
would
have
been
something
that
could
have
been
arranged
and
worked
through.
I
mean
they
can
go
in
in
a
room
together
to
work
out
what
the
eyeball
rate
is.
So
they
could
go
into
a
room
and
sort
this
out,
I'm
sure,
okay,.
K
Couple
times
it
was
mentioned
about
people,
consumers
boasting
with
their
fight
their
feats
to
show
have
you
no
displeasure
with
something
or
or
to
make
sure
that
they
still
have
them.
You
know
face
to
face
contact
with
their
banks,
and
Scotland
is
in
general,
are
more
loyal.
As
consumers,
we
tend
to
stick
to
the
brands
that
we
know
that
we've
had
long-standing
relationships
with
levy
trust
and
we
probably
terminus
sticky
consumers
who
are
less
likely
to
trust.
K
So
we
need
to
break
that
cycle
a
little
bit
and
encourage
people
to
vote
with
a
fee
if
they
want
to
have
a
local
bank
branch
and
unfortunately,
it's
not
always
an
option.
So
there
are
too
many
closures.
It's
the
last
branch
and
down
some
people,
don't
have
the
option
and
so
it'd
be
great.
People
were
voting
with
their
feet,
but
we
do
have
this
problem
with
a
lot
of
consumers
or
overly
oil
consumers
and
the
problem
that
some
people,
just
don't
have
the
option
to
vote
with
their
feet,
say
I'm.
F
K
E
Fulton
MacGregor
finals
maybe
thought
it
went
on
him,
but
3tq
Marysville,
and
do
you
think
that
RBS
and
Association
are
exploiting
the
particular
demographic
wait
like
to
use
the
branches
and
terms
of
how
they
mate
per
taste?
In
the
example,
I
gave
her
that,
as
a
the
state's
obvious
in
my
own
constituency,
there's
one
jeff
of
claudia.
We
put
an
online
a
petition
to
be
saying
it
and
essentially
flopped,
regardless
of
hoe
in
how
much
meat
we
had
pushed
it.
Squid
can
see
under
that
cuz.
E
It
wasn't
what
was
picked
up
in
the
streets
and
subsidies
and
other
stuff.
But
when
we
put
Rowand
our
paper
petitions
going
to
local
sorts,
it's
through
the
roof.
Do
we?
Yes?
So
my
suppose
my
question
is:
are
our
BS
exploiting
a
particular
demographic
that
may
be
on
petition
in
the
way
that
the
others
you
see
online
petitions
all
day,
yeah.
G
They're
stretching
the
truth,
to
some
extent
can
I
just
pick
up
on
a
point
that
was
really
a
second
well
it's
in
my
head
about
shared
banking.
There
needs
to
be
a
change
in
legislation
in
regards
to
the
shared
bank
and
opportunity.
Just
coming
back
to
your
point.
Yet
I'm
RBS
are
kind
of
stretching
the
truth
somewhat.
G
A
K
Driver
yeah
just
some
the
point
you
making
about
paper,
there's
online
surveys,
I
think
our
stats
and
off
comes
that
saying:
there's
still
a
stubborn
kind
of
thief
of
the
population.
There
aren't
some
lines,
you're
missing
them
entirely
and
those
are
the
people
that
are
going
to
be
most
affected
and
we
tend
to
do
papers
are
ways
to
try
capture
the
heart
to
reach
it
/
easy
to
ignore
consumers.
So
it
is
very
important
that,
and
you
know,
they're
not
brushed
under
the
carpet.
A
Just
a
quick
question
for
I'm
still
in
Turner
before
we
come
on
to
:
BT,
you
mentioned
regulations
about
shared
banking.
No,
we've
just
had
the
report
from
the
Westminster
committee.
Do
you
want
to
make
any
comment
about
the
recommendations
it
makes
and
whether
they
go
far
enough,
in
particular
on
that
point,.
G
Around
the
access
to
banking
I
think
there
needs
to
be
a
strategy
in
front
tation
with
regards
to
that,
because
the
statutory
regulation,
because
banks
self-regulate,
in
what
happened
back
in
2008,
so
I-
think
there
needs
to
be
some
teeth
in
respect
of
that.
Clearly,
the
report
says
that
that
they
did
not
need
to
really
shut
these
branches.
G
There
are
issues
around
the
ten
remaining
branches,
which
is
a
political
posture,
and
if
you
want
them,
bye-bye
RBS
and
politicians,
because
there's
no
criteria
set
about
how
these
branches
will
remain
Orton
that
has
been
they
may
have
been
now.
Someone
appointed
an
organization
appointed
to
do
this
kind
of
review,
but
I
will
not
be
surprised
towards
the
end
of
this
year
if
these
ten
branches
close.
G
A
G
Well,
I'm
content
with
some
of
the
with
the
stuff
that
came
out
of
the
of
the
of
the
Scott
fais
recommend
his
report
yeah,
but
I
just
think.
With
regard
to
the
access
to
banking
and
consulting
and
impact
assessments
that
you
viewed
today,
they
don't
go
far
enough
and
I
think,
while
banks
in
general
will
hide
behind
a
commercial,
sensitive
position,
I
think
there's
an
opportunity
for
to
learn
lessons
from
this,
and
banks
should
consult
before
they
make
decisions.
G
When,
when
RBS
come
to
me
to
say
that
we're
going
to
be
shut
in
so
many
branches,
they
don't
do
that.
The
night
before
you
know,
there's
a
six
to
nine
month,
lead
up
to
I,
know,
there's
an
opportunity
for
them
to
come
to
me
and
say
right.
This
is
what
we're
going
to
do
and
consult
an
approach
in
a
proper
manner.
They
don't
do
that
because
of
obviously
the
high
being
the
commercial
sensitive
issues
right.
D
I
Cliff
it's
not
realistic
in
the
short
term,
it
could
work,
but
it
does
require
quite
a
bit
of
work
behind
the
scenes.
The
post
office
can
provide
some
services,
but
I'm
told
not
enough
and
not
extensive
enough.
The
credit
unions
are
small
and
they
again
are
having
is
in
expanding
in
a
way
that
would
fill
the
gap.
There
have
been
too
many
closures
for
the
well
I'd
like
to
call
them
community
banks
rather
than
credit
unions.
I
The
trouble
with
credit
union
in
an
area
like
Juniper
green,
balloon,
o
curry
is
it
doesn't
have
the
right
sort
of
feel
to
it,
but
we
have
been
working
with
Castle
Community
Bank
and
they
have
performed
very
well
on
the
east
of
Edinburgh
and
I.
Think
you're
meeting
with
the
general
manager
next
week,
so
you'll
find
out
a
lot
more
about
what
their
plans
are,
we're
working
with
them.
D
K
Right,
yeah,
and
just
a
few
of
those
things
that
have
mentions
and
mention
private-sector
deal
with
the
market
failure,
I
think
maybe
it's
the
the
bank
itself
that
has
failed
to
provide
the
service
in
the
way
that
the
community
needs
and
actually
rather
than
reducing
ours.
They
should
actually
be
looking
at
when
people
needs
banking
services
and
then
people
would
come
and
and
access
the
services.
So
maybe
actually
it
needs
to
just
rather
than
close
and
in
terms
of
post
offices,
and
certainly
there
are
viable
alternative
for
some.
They
and
I.
K
So
there's
an
issue
there
and
that
post
offers
aren't
available
as
they
used
to
be
so
some
people
can
access
banks
or
post
offices
in
terms
of
small
businesses,
and
we
we
did
a
survey
and
found
that
small
businesses
and
rural
areas
were
twice
as
likely
to
use
banking
services
in
post
offices
than
they
are
in
urban
areas.
So
there
is
that
demand,
for
they
can't
cater
for
all
businesses,
it's
not
like
for
like,
and
they
have
limits
on
the
amounts
month.
K
Deposits
and
the
amounts
of
a
cash
you
can
guess
out
so
for
large
or
small
businesses
actually
doesn't
work
for
them.
So
post
offices
can
work
for
some,
but
not
for
all
this,
not
alike
for
like
replacement,
because
not
everybody
can
access
it
and
it
doesn't
provide
every
service
and
that
consumers
or
businesses
require
a
post.
G
G
H
You
what
was
really
wanting
to
see
is
that
I
think
banks
are
being
very
short-sighted.
As
my
colleague
at
the
end,
there
said
that
they
should
be
thinking
more
out.
The
box,
a
bank,
the
the
branch
network
as
it
stands,
is
not
perfect,
but
surely
what
they
could
have
done
is
actually
look
at
that
and
offer
as
a
smaller
Bank
it
reduced.
H
Evers
combined
I
mean,
for
example,
as
community
council
I
would
love
to
have
been
able
to
buy
I've,
been
able
to
somehow
fund
to
buy
the
Bank
of
Scotland
branch
and
use
it
as
a
community
hub
which
would
have
a
bank
in
it,
so
that
we
could
use
that
for
many
many
more
purposes,
not
just
a
bank,
not
just
a
branch
and
I
think
that's
the
only
way
to
go
for
the
small
rural
areas
almost
like
that.
The
way
the
post
office
says
to
survive
in
the
rural
areas.
H
Post
offices
are
everything
you
know
the
cell,
you
name
it
their
sale,
it
probably
so
in
a
slightly
different
model.
I
think
if
the
banks
looked
at
that
and
had
a
small
area
within
I'd
like
to
do
in
supermarkets,
do
things
like
that,
so
you
could
have
the
building
could
be
multi-purpose,
but
the
branch
would
would
tag
on
to
that,
so
the
expenses
would
be
shared,
but
the
building
itself
would
be
far
more
useful
to
the
community
and
I
think
the
bank
would
get
credit
for
that.
H
We
had
them
in
large
factories,
we
had
them
in
schools
and
that
worked
very,
very
well,
and
the
cost
of
that
was
very
small
but
engaged
the
communities
that
they
served
so
that
the
sub
branch
became
a
very
important
asset
for
for
the
communities
that
were
served
and
I.
Don't
understand
why
a
wave
of
sort
of
will
stop
doing
now.
H
We've
become
very
rigid
in
what
what
people,
what
the
banks
think
branches
are
and
what
the
customers
actually
expect,
the
branches
to
be
and
there's
just
a
huge
disconnect
and,
as
I
said
earlier,
the
the
bank's
knee-jerk
reaction
to
that
is
to
close
them.
They
don't
want
to
think
about
how
they
could
use
them
in
other
ways
how
they
could
could
be
a
an
asset.
They
just
want
to
close
them
and
just
move
on
on.
You
know
you
can
normally
talk
about.
You
know
moving.
We
have
you
know
your
feet.
Voting
with
your
feet.
H
You
can
only
do
that
when
there's
a
branch
to
go
to
you
know
when
there's
no
branches
to
go
to
where
you
go,
you
know,
and
the
post
office
is
totally
impractical.
As
a
banker
I
mean
the
post
offices
are
simply
not
set
up
to
be
banks
because
they're,
not
banks,
a
bank
is
a
bank
for
a
reason
and
the
services
that
they
they
they
provide
are
not
what
post
offices
are
set
up
for.
So
it's
a
short-term
solution,
absolutely
post
offices,
but
wait.
J
Just
a
sport,
I'll
start
there
and
there's
certainly
evidence
time
south.
We
are
there's
some
regional
building
societies
that
have
creative
things,
such
as
a
local
library.
There
was
due
to
close
through
lack
of
funding
and
Newcastle
pollen
society
took
over
and
peed
for
the
library
to
keep
running
and
opened
a
branch
on
there.
So
there
is,
there
are
ways
around
it
and
with
a
bit
of
creative
thinking,
cliff.
I
Yeah
one
slight
problem
in
our
area
now
is
that
the
banks
are
sold
all
those
buildings
that
could
have
been
used
for
the
kind
of
activities
that
Alistair
was
talking
about.
Community
use
I
mean
in
juniper
green.
We
have
very
few
public
buildings
and
it
would
have
been
great
to
have
the
RBS
building
and
use
that
as
a
community
hub
for
banking
and
for
other
purposes,
because
it's
a
big
enough
building
to
do
all
sorts
of
things.
The
post
office
isn't
the
solution,
but
it
can
be
part
of
the
solution.
I
D
That
cheery
note
leaving
us
a
leaving
aside
the
rates
and
wrongs
of
branch
closures.
Coming
back
to
the
point
that
we've
heard
from
retailers
that
there's
a
huge
demand
for
local
bank
branches,
we
hear
from
individuals,
community
councils,
all
sorts
of
bodies
that
there's
a
huge
demand.
Why
isn't
somebody
moving
into
that
space?
Why
isn't
that
happening?
Maybe
one
the
Challenger
banks
or
whatever?
Why
isn't
somebody
recognising
this.
A
H
Bank
isn't
a
supermarket,
it's
not
sharp,
there's
legalities
involved
as
the
security
involved.
It's
not
as
simple
as
that
and
a
lot
of
the
smaller
banks
are
very
much
area
beasts,
so
they
find
it
very,
very
difficult
to
expand
to
other
other
areas
without
the
garden
T
of
XML
customers.
So
it's
really
not
not
assume
you're,
not
really
you're,
not
comparing
like
with
like
I,
would
I
would
suggest
I
think
it
takes
a.
H
It
takes
a
big
company
to
actually
step
in
and
and
these
the
small
building
societies
and
the
community
banks
really
an
aren't
them
and
the
two
young
to
do
that
at
the
moment.
Certainly
maybe,
in
twenty
years,
when
word
or
deed,
we
will
have
that
and
I
love
it
I
mean
the
the
banks
are
obviously
just
I
mean
sounds
horrible,
but
they
have
basically
just
the
the
the
older
population
of
just
ignored
missive
what
they're
going
to
die
anyway.
So
you
know
we
don't
have
to
spend
much
much
time
on
them
and
I.
H
I
One
Bank
that
looked
as
though
it
might
be,
the
sort
of
thing
that
would
help
in
the
community
is
the
Metro
Bank.
But
it's
it's
really
around
London
I
think
he
doesn't
expand
it
further
further
north
yet,
but
he
did
look
as
though
it
had
the
right
kind
of
attitude
for
today's
world
of
dealing
with
not
only
the
young
but
the
old,
and
we
shouldn't
forget
the
young
by
the
way
in
this
number
of
people
in
our
public
meetings,
said
to
us.
I
You
know
we
like
to
take
our
children
to
the
bank
and
put
money
in
to
show
them
that
this
is
how
you
save
money
and
we've
lost
that
in
our
communities,
because
there
aren't
places
for
them
to
go
now
and
no.
The
banks
are
doing
things
like
going
to
the
schools
but
to
some
extent
that's
a
disconnect
for
kids,
because
they
don't
see
something.
That's
theirs.
It's
it's!
It's
an
exercise
that
they're
having
at
school,
but
we
mustn't
forget
the
young
in
this.
It's
all
part
of
the
same
thing
in
communities
and
I.
I
Dying
by
the
way,
because
when
when
somebody
dies
in
the
family-
and
you
have
to
go
and
do
deal
with
a
bank
over
changing
the
bank
account,
you
have
to
go
to
the
bank
at
their
convenience,
not
yours
and
it's
a
very
difficult
time
for
people
for
families
when,
when
they've
lost
someone
and-
and
that
can
be
a
an
issue-
and
that
brings
us
right
back
to
what's
missing-
is
the
face-to-face
in
banking?
That's
what
we're
losing
in
our
communities.
I
G
Just
a
touch
on
a
point
of
if
you
go
to
a
branch
you're
automatically
met
by
someone
who
will
try
to
guide
you
to
a
machine
where
you
don't
need
to
speak
to
a
teller.
You
know
it's
all
automated.
You
know
I
stand
in
the
queue
you
know,
I
mean
because
I'm,
principled
I,
don't
want
a
machine,
a
tip
my
my
money,
so
you
know
there's
yellow
someone
talked
about.
G
A
J
A
H
That's
very
interesting
because
I
was
speaking
to
quite
elderly
ladies
last
week
and
one
of
them
says
it
took
me
30
minutes
to
go
in
the
bloody
bus
she's,
it's
not
very
good
at
walking
and
to
be
honest,
she
didn't
like
it.
She
didn't
like
at
all.
She
felt
I
think.
Usually
it's
about
security.
She
felt
very,
very
vulnerable
in
the
middle
of
the
middle
of
the
library,
but
she
said
she
felt
very,
very
vulnerable
and
using
it
and
she
didn't
think
it
was
long
enough.
H
She
was
very
happy
that
it
was
there,
but
she
just
felt
that
it
really
wasn't
fit
for
her
or
her
sister,
because,
as
I
said,
Western
infamous
truth,
it
really
can't
go
up
the
steps,
it's
really
quite
difficult
and
when
they
were
in
there
they
just
felt
there
was
no
privacy
and
it
was.
It
wasn't
a
pleasant
experience,
however,
so
that
there
probably
will
not
be
using
it
again.
But
it's
it's
something
that
certainly
the
younger
and
more
mobile
are
very
happy
with,
but
30
minutes
Lord
God,
it's
just
ridiculous.
I
Well,
it's
not
enough
time,
but
it's
30
minutes
that
we
didn't
have.
We
have
worked
quite
hard
to
get
something
back
into
our
communities.
I
mentioned
the
fact
that
you
know
we're
losing
shopping,
we're
losing
a
low
income,
so
to
get
something
back
is
worthwhile.
Now
my
experience
of
the
use
in
juniper
green
has
been
that
business
was
instead
of
having
to
send
a
couple
of
guys
into
town
with
the
takings
are
able
to
use
van
another
business
was
able
to
get
checks
in
which
were
taking
him
to
drive
into
town.
I
So
that's
another
aspect
of
you
know
the
use
of
transport.
That
is
another
knock
on
from
the
bank
closures.
The
school
are
using
it
on
a
regular
basis
and
they've
said
to
me.
You
know
it's
saving
us
two
hours
in
going
into
town
to
do
the
banking
day
after
day,
I,
don't
know
what
they
have
to
do,
but
it's
saving
them
time
and
there's
been
at
least
10
15
or
so
people,
using
it
fairly
regularly
older
people,
I
managed
to
get
up
and
down
the
steps.
I
I
So
we
can
try
and
get
the
ladies
that
had
trouble
getting
on
the
the
the
van
encouraged
to
come
along
to
that
so
that
they
can
tell
their
story
she's
a
designer,
and
we
might
be
able
to
look
at
things
that
are
a
little
bit
more
flexible
so
that
maybe
the
sides
like
these
vans
in
the
states.
They
RVs
that
you
can
expand
the
space.
So
there
is
more
well
better
space,
better
security
and
things
like
that.
I
So,
though,
those
are
issues
that
we're
hoping
to
look
at
from
this
perspective,
30
minutes
isn't
enough
and
I've
been
promised.
When
the
community
bank
come,
they
will
spend
the
morning
in
each
of
our
communities.
So
that's
something
to
look
forward
to
and
I
think
a
lot
of
people
will
embrace
that
from
what
I've
heard
that
they're
still
asking
me
when
is
that
Community
Bank
coming
so
any
way
to
accelerate
their
limited
services
will
be
appreciated.
Just.
B
B
Quickly,
the
RBS
managing
director
of
personal
banking
in
Scotland
said
in
September
2016,
where
a
service
is
consistently
used
by
fewer
than
10
customers.
We
will
review
the
sustainability
of
that
branch.
Stop
do
you
think
you
know
this
has
basically
been
set
up
to
fail.
We
only
been
30
minutes,
storms,
the.
I
Cynics
in
our
community
are
telling
me
that
this
is
their
and,
if
you
don't
use
it,
it'll
go
that's
why
we're
encouraging
people
to
use
it
with
advertising?
As
you
know,
in
CMB
and
and
the
posters
and
as
far
as
we're
concerned,
we've
been
turning
up
each
time
as
a
Community
Council
to
the
van
to
make
sure
that
things
go
smoothly.
We're
actually
talking
to
someone
from
RBS
so
that
we
can
iron
out
any
issues.
K
The
precarious
nature
of
you
know,
a
fixed
bank
is,
is
much
more,
you
know
fixed
or
a
consumer
than
something
that
comes
in
once
a
week
ends
as
happened
last
month.
They
change
the
routes,
so
some
people
aren't
on
the
roots
and
or
something
they
have
no
bank
again,
and
so
it
can.
It
can
certainly
help
as
you
cliff
was
mentioning.
30
minutes
is
better
than
nothing,
but
I
think
the
other
point
wants
to
make.
Is
that
has
to
be
built
around
the
community?
K
You
know
around
the
banks
needs
it
has
to
be
there
at
the
right
time
and
for
the
right
amount
of
time,
so
it
meets
the
needs
of
the
community,
not
because
it's
on
the
right
stop
on
the
routes.
It
has
to
actually
meet
the
needs
of
that
community
and
each
community
needs
to
be
separately
assessed
for
its
need.
K
B
I
Two
others
left
from
the
area
when
the
Bank
of
Scotland
went,
they
took
the
one
in
curry,
and
the
one
in
the
post
office
in
curry
went
so
I
think
all
the
ones
now
in
our
area,
apart
from
the
one
at
the
university,
are
outside
and
again
some
elderly
people
find
that
a
little
daunting
on
the
security
issue
can
I
just
say
something
too
about
the
the
community
bank,
which
is
that
we
want
this
other
service
to
come
in,
but
in
our
area
and
I
think
you're,
alluding
to
it.
I
think
it
was
John.
I
I
was
saying:
why
aren't
all
the
groups
coming
in
in
areas
like
below?
No
curry,
juniper
green
Collington?
It's
perceived
that
we're
an
affluent
society
and
therefore
the
banks
won't
make
money
in
those
areas.
People
have
got
their
mortgages,
although
there
are
young
people
coming
in
all
the
time,
but
cheek
by
jowl
with
those
communities
are
other
communities
that
are
not
so
well
off
and
I.
I
Think
if
we
could
get
the
community
bank
to
have
permanent
residents
in
one
of
those
areas,
a
little
bit
like
you
heard
at
your
last
hearing
that
impressed
and
pans
capital
credit
union
have
opened
up
their
office
there
and
that's
working
for
them.
I
think
we
could
try
and
work
something
for
castle
Community
Bank.
That
would
work.
I
They
provide
a
service,
a
face-to-face
service
for
what
is
perceived
to
be
the
affluent
areas,
but
maybe
have
a
permanent
presence
in
our
less
affluent
areas
and
see
if
we
can
get
rid
of
some
of
these
exorbitant
HP
shops
that
are
also
in
our
nearby
communities
and
again
I
think
you
could
help
in
that
process.
I
think
even
in
a
position
to
do
that
and.
G
There
is
it
uncertainty
about
the
ATM
network.
You
know
when
I'm
I'm
on
a
report,
industry
body
warns
of
cash
deserts
in
ATM
funding
ro
is
not
resolved.
Some
8,000
machines
in
tool
could
be
removed.
You
know
so
you're
shutting
branches
post
offers
are
struggling
to
cope
and
you'd
also
reduce
Li
with
reductions
of
of
of
ATMs.
So
weird
people
get
you
know,
60%,
there's
still
16%
cash
out
there
in
circulation.
You
know
we're
not
a
cashless
society,
we
need
ATMs.
G
I
can
I
just
go
back
on
to
a
point
about
the
the
mobile
vans
I'm
from
unites
point
of
view.
Security
is
an
issue
time.
Slots
are
an
issue
there,
the
reductions
of
time
slots,
nor
disability,
access,
adverse
weather
and
I.
Think
as
well.
It's
the
privacy
of
it.
People
want
to
speak
to
the
bank
about
when
they
do
the
big
things
in
life
or
or
so.
Unfortunately,
someone
has
passed
away
in
a
family.
G
You
need
to
wait
for
the
van
they
come
and
our
discussion
in
front
of
everyone
with
with
a
teller
from
a
van
about
where
do
I
go.
What
I
do
was
someone's
estate
I?
Think
you
know
I
mean
we
that's
just
totally
wrong
and
I.
Think
I
was
listening
to
the
chief
executive
of
Bank
of
America,
who
was
having
a
conversation
about
their
branch
network.
He
currently
has
four
half
thousand
branches
across
America.
He
says
it
is
30
percent
online.
G
A
H
K
Then
people
lose
access
to
cash
completely
and,
as
we
mentioned,
the
security
issues
around
accessing
cash
in
the
shop
as
well
and
and
I
think
I
worried
that
in
will
be
mentions
about
the
problems
with
link
and
the
potential
closure
of
office
or
privately
run
and
ATMs,
particularly
in
rural
areas.
I
wonder
if
we're
going
to
be
here
in
a
year
or
two
years
time
talking
just
about
ATMs
I.
Think
bank
closures
are
part
of
that.
I
think.
K
When
we
talk
about
banks,
we
have
to
think
about
banks,
ATMs
and
post
offices,
only
one
almost
that
that
is,
people's
access
to
cash
and
access
to
financial
services
and
I.
Think
all
of
them
are
under
threats
and
so
I
think
ATMs
is,
is
really
important
for
consumers
and
it's
almost
a
disaster
waiting
to
happen
if
things
don't
pan
out,
as
as
we
hope,
thanks
for
watching.
E
Ma
a
ale,
they
are
supplementary,
but
there's
steps
by
banking
mark
and
search
and
see
I
knew
it's
the
filter.
The
last
banking,
too
much
I
thought
she
got
real
great
bath
because
it
search
of
the
house
buying
for
about
five
or
six
times
so,
instead
of
him
causing
Antonius
the
last
Bank
Antonio
scenario,
I
think
they
should
have
been
expand
until
there
is
a
I
packed
up
and
what
Clifford
said
is
available.
E
You
know
what
area
has
been
seen:
his
affluence,
tapes
in
Mike
and
searching
so
they
could
probably
seen
it's
quite
a
fun,
but
amid
his
bond,
for
example,
certainly
hasn't
so
I
was
just
a
point.
Yeah
I
mean
those
my
question
sort
of
around
a
community
council
taking
ownership
of
banks
and
I
think
working
to
covered
that.
So
he
won't
get
people
to
labor
the
point
before
I'm
interested
in
eyes.
Do
you
think
the
scope
for
F
a
bank,
as
seen
as
the
last
banking
timer
that
Kavya
that
said
there?
E
H
We
contacted
the
bank
of
scotland
immediately
after
that
we
knew
they
were
closing
and
it
was
just
a
flat
nor
there
was
just
as
a
commercial
enterprise.
They
wouldn't
be
willing
to
this
open
market.
If
you
can
get
the
money,
we'll
sell
it
to
you,
but
there
was
no
consideration.
I
mean
the
the
sad
thing
is
we
had
legislation
and
agreements
with
banks
that
there
would
always
be.
You
know
the
last
branch
in
town
would
but
State
received.
Since
that
went.
H
If
the
Royal
Bank
engineer,
Jennifer
Greene
had
said
that
we
would
have
grabbed
it
with
both
hands
and
made
it
work,
because
as
our
community
and
we
would
be
engaging-
and
there
was
so
much
we
could
have
done
and
in
fact
we
could
do
with
the
with
with
the
the
the
bank
and
curry,
you
know.
As
I
say,
it
was
a
community
hub,
we
could
use
it
for
almost
everything
and
we,
like
cliff,
have
get
very
few
facilities
that
we
can
use
for
communities.
So
yes,
I
would
love
to
see
something.
I
I
feel
in
our
communities.
The
horse
has
gone,
but
somebody
made
us
an
interesting
suggestion
which
let
me
put
to
this
group
and
see
what
what
you
think
about
it.
Why
not
a
punitive
tax
on
the
banks
when
they
sell
their
buildings
of
somewhere
in
the
region
of
50%
of
sale
price,
which
you
could
use
then
either
to
help
the
specific
community
or
have
it
in
a
pot
that
could
be
used
for
people
to
bid
for
for
community
use?
K
And
I'm,
just
looking
at
and
press
release
on,
February
thunder
all
bank
that
suggests
that
they
will
work
with
local
communities
to
hand
over
their
buildings
and
to
trust
and
local
communities
at
the
important
bit
is
that
they
said
where
there
is
no
demand
for
a
building.
Will
do
that
and
I,
don't
know
how
they
they
measured.
That
but
I
think
we
should
take
them
up
on
that
and
say
well.
K
I
It
would
have
been
sensible
for
them
simply
to
rent
it
to
communities,
because
then
at
least
it
would
be
used.
The
Bank
of
Scotland
building
in
Currie
hasn't
been
used.
The
Royal
Bank
of
Scotland
building
in
in
Juniper
green,
hasn't
been
used,
but
communities
would
find
a
use
for
them
and
they're
just
derelict
to
the
many
and
they're
a
nice
all
to
the
communities.
K
I
think
there
is
a
role
for
local
government
and
potentially
national
government
to
actually
support
community
groups
to
make
it
viable
for
them
to
take
over
buildings.
I
know
the
example:
I
know
if
the
local
authority
isn't
involved
and
that
actually
is
helping
the
process
about
to
have.
You
know
government
involved
in
supporting
him
so.
E
K
I'm
not
sure
as
a
standard,
but
I
think
we
should
certainly
be
involved
and
looking
at
what
can
be
done
and
I
definitely
think
there
is
a
role
and
that
he
can
have
an
understandable
clarity's
are
under
pressure
with
their
budgets
and
so
on.
I
think
it
can
take
a
look
boxes
for
local
authorities
as
well,
so
would
certainly
be
encouraging
them
to
be
involved
in
that
process.
H
You
God
it's
just
really.
This
should
be
forced
to
engage
with
the
communities
that
they
have
served
for
many
many
years
and
the
loyal
customers
I
see
over
30
years,
and
you
know
absolutely
a
sticky
customers.
I
say:
banks
have
made
massive
profits
throughout
the
decades
is
because
customers,
no
matter
through
thick
and
thin,
will
stay
with
the
bank.
You
know
so,
yes,
III
think
we
have
to
stop
this.
H
E
H
G
But
the
start
has
been
eight
or
six
or
nine
months
ago.
You
know
I
get
presented
with
a
business
case
from
RBS
to
say
we're
going
to
be
shutting
and
in
fact
the
business
case
with
these
62
branches
from
from
school.
Actually,
a
168
branches
were
cut
in
throughout
the
UK
and
therefore
there
is
very
little
I
can,
as
a
trade
union
officer
to
mitigate
what
is
in
that
business
case,
because
the
work
has
already
been
done.
So
you
know,
consulting
with
the
trade
union
is
difficult
for
them.
What
they're
gonna
do
with
your
public?
A
G
K
Yes,
it
is
answered,
it
was
just
them
the
ten
banks
that
there
is
gonna,
be
the
independent
review
of
over
the
summer
that
I've
had
to
save
the
execution.
I.
Think
that
marks
an
a
small
window
of
opportunity
to
do
things
much
better
and
the
moments
very
opaque
and
unclear
how
they're
going
to
do
the
independent
review,
but
if
they
want
to
consult
with
consumers,
they
want
with
to
work
with
community
groups
and
do
properly
that
this
represents
an
opportunity
and
I
think
it
takes.
You
know,
committees
and
governments
to
me.
A
M
Perhaps
more
cynical
than
Keith
drivers,
because
we've
had
the
access
to
banking
protocol
in
2015.
We
then
had
the
access
to
banking
standards
in
2017
and
yet
we're
still
closing
bank
branches.
So
let
me
turn
this
on
its
head
and,
let
me
let
me
say
at
the
start:
I
am
an
absolute
fan
of
credit
unions,
but
we're
talking
about
mitigating
some
we're.
Actually
perhaps
we
should
be
further
upstream
Lynne
Turner's
point
about
how
we
get
in
amongst
the
the
detail
before
these
decisions
are
made
to.
M
Let
me
explore
a
bit
of
that
with
you,
because
I
think
unites
submission
challenged
us
to
say
you
know.
Why
are
we
talking
about
mitigation?
Surely
we
would
be
resisting
closure.
So
if
you
were
to
design
a
system
that
resisted
closure-
or
you
wanted
to
see
recommendations
coming
from
this
committee,
what
would
they
be?
Your
top
two
or
three.
M
G
Really,
you
know
they've
not
consulted
with
communities
they've
they've
consulted
with
in
unite
in
the
words
of
consultant,
there's
a
word
meaningful
missing
in
that
process,
as
I
said
when,
when
they
present
a
business
case
to
us
that
is
very
little,
I
can
actually
mitigate
it
when,
in
regard
to
that,
all
the
stats
are
done.
You
know,
there's
timetables,
you
know
of
closure
process
as
Maps.
Given
to
me.
You
know
how
many
people
footfall
all
that
kind
of
stuff
is
given
to
me.
M
It's
is
there
an
issue
for
us
before
anybody
else
comes
in
about
making
sure
that
there
is
an
agreed
framework
about
what
they
measure,
because
I'm
surprised
at
your
description
of,
if
you
don't
have
a
an
account
in
that
branch-
and
you
know
my
just
thinking
my
my
own
branch
account
is
where
I
left
20
years
ago,
not
the
branch
I
used
just
now.
That
means
I,
don't
count
you
don't
okay,
so
a
legislative
framework
that
that
would
include
measures
that
actually
specified
what
you
measure.
What
the
criteria
are.
Would
that
be.
H
M
H
Going
back
to
when
it
used
to
be
yes
and
that
worked
very
well,
the
banks
didn't
like
it
because
they
tended
to
feel
that
they
were
been
piggy
in
a
metal
and
it's
talking
about
a
place
that
it
didn't
want
it
to
be.
But
the
communities
respected
that
unused
the
banks
as
much
as
the
good,
so
absolutely
yeah,
but
I
mean,
as
I
said
it
has
to
be
from
day
one.
It
cannot
be
six
seven,
eight
nine
months
down
the
line.
H
H
G
M
J
M
G
There's
there's
an
arrogance
about
this
because
also
because,
while
they
were
discussing
the
branch
causes
in
Scotland,
the
Scottish
Affairs
Select,
Committee
low
and
behold,
they
announced
a
further
hundred
and
sixty
two
branches
to
close
in
England
and
Wales
of
the
Williams
and
Glyn
I'm
organisation
yeah.
Why
put
yourself
through
that
pain?
But
there's
an
arrogance
about.
They
are
gonna
shut
branches
and
they
do
not
listen.
N
You
convener
and
Jackie
Baillie
slaying
of
question
has
led
very
nicely
on
two
main,
and
that
is
about
what
governments
can
do.
A
few
I
mean
we've
already
covered
quite
a
few
things.
I
think
that
you've
you're
asks
of
legislation
and
I'm
sittin
here
I'm.
Looking
on
my
phone
at
the
access
to
banking,
commitment
and
I
think
you're.
Absolutely
right,
there's
nothing
there
that
says
that
they
have.
They
don't
make
any
attempts
to
even
see
that
they
will
consult
before
it's
all
about
what
they
will
do
after
they've
made
a
decision
to
close.
N
So
again
they
open
golf
for
you.
What
do
you
think,
given
that,
of
course,
issues
are
in
banking?
Regulation
are
reserved
to
the
UK
government.
They
could
do
to
stop
the
situation
from
happening
where
towns
and
communities
will
be
left
without
a
last
bank
in
town
and
this
particular
reference
to
RBS,
which
of
course,
as
Miss
Bailey's
already
said,
our
majority
shareholder
by
the
government.
I
Well,
I
mean
it's
almost
too
late
for
our
communities,
because
what
I
mentioned
earlier
was
a
cooperation,
at
least
a
chat
to
say.
Well,
the
Bank
of
Scotland
is
closed.
Rbs
now
the
only
bank
on
the
a70.
Let's
keep
that
one,
and
maybe
we
shot
Gustafsson
I,
don't
know
why
six
banks
find
a
home
on
the
a8
and
none
on
the
a
70,
its
geography,
not
part
of
the
curriculum
anymore.
N
You're
saying
that
you'd
like
to
see
in
regulations
like
an
acknowledgement
of
a
geographical
area
yeah
and
in
that,
if
the
area,
whatever
the
parameters
I
refer,
is
there
was
a
last
Bank
for
that
community.
Much
like
Fulton
McGregor
has
mentioned
that
there's
some
kind
of
status
tree
obligations
on
the
remaining
Bank
yeah.
I
I
mean
it's
clear
in
the
towns,
where
there's
only
one
bank
left
in
in
the
city,
then
they
have
to
look
at
transport
routes
so
that
a
bus
route
from
below
no
curry
juniper
green
coal
inton.
Those
kind
of
things
would
make
sense
that
you
keep
a
branch
that
can
serve
20,000
people
it's
effectively,
a
small
town
that
is
now
lost
its
banking
opportunities,
and
it's
that
face
to
face
bid.
I
He
go
right
back
to
the
beginning
when
we
said
who
affected
the
elderly,
the
disabled,
the
people
who
can't
go
online
or
won't
go
online
and
we
haven't
talked
about
those
either
the
the
the
TSB
situation
hasn't
helped
and
all
the
big
banks
have
actually
got
to
go
through
that
same
process
that
TSB
are
still
going
through.
So
we
ain't
seen
nothing
yet.
I
am
told.
H
I
think
is
all
about
at
the
moment.
The
feeling
I
have
is
that
there's
a
spreadsheet
somewhere
with
numbers
on
it
and
rather
than
Luke
the
impact
on
communities,
they
look
at
the
top
100
branches
who
are
not
making
money.
It's
just
somebody
says
we'll
just
close
them.
There
is
no
or
there's
no
apparent
observations
that
they're
not
looking
at
that.
H
They
are
looking
at
communities
and
the
impact,
which
is
why
I
think
it's
very
important
that
that
the
community
impact
is
to
the
fore
when
they're
deciding
to
close
branches
and,
as
I
said
before,
the
banks
are
quite
happily
ignoring
that
at
the
moment
and
it
will
close
and
you
get
to
the
ridiculous
situation
as
cliff
says
that
there
are
six
banks
in
one
area
and
there
is
zero
in
another.
So
there's
no
logic
in
how
they
do
it
and
I
think
we
need
that.
H
A
K
N
K
So
you
know
something
along.
Those
lines
certainly
have
sympathy
on,
as
we
mentioned
before,
the
fact
that
consumers
have
no
stake
in
this.
What
server,
apart
from
the
fact
that
they
get
notice
I
mean
that's
about
it
and
they
get
some
information
that
may
or
may
not
be
rice
and
consumers
should
be,
and
customers
should
be
central.
Central
to
this
I
mean
it's,
the
service
is
provided
for
them
and
without
them
the
service
wouldn't
be
there.
So
actually
they
need
to
be
essential
to
this.
K
I'm,
not
sure
you
can
compel
imagination,
but
certainly
we
need
them
a
little
bit
of
a
push
in
the
in
the
direction
of
being
a
bit
more
imaginative
about
meeting
customers
needs
rather
than
assuming
customers
don't
want
their
services
because
they're
not
coming
think
I
see
we're
not
serving
customers.
How
can
we
serve
customers
better
and
how
can
we
integrate
in
communities
better?
That
makes
business
sense
also
meets
the
needs
of
our
consumers.
G
I
think
there's
an
opportunity
with
regards
to
the
UK
government
setting
a
tone
for
this.
Clearly
they've
stepped
back
from
that
saying
that
this
is
a
commercial
decision,
but
being
70
percent
owned
by
the
British
taxpayer.
They
had
an
opportunity
to
kind
of
set
the
tone
and
I
think
we've
not
touched
on
it
cliffs.
Absolutely
right.
You
know,
IT
failure.
G
What
happens
if
there
is
a
outage
again
like
RBS
out
a
few
years
ago,
or
indeed,
more
recently,
TSB,
where
people
can't
your
pay
for
things
at
the
counter
with
a
credit
card
or
debit
card,
take
money
out
of
an
ATM.
You
know
that's
when
that's
when
you
need
a
branch
and
that's
when
it
will
kick
in
with
regards
to
these
branches,
and
if
you
live
in
Castle,
be
you
know,
you
need
a
seven
hour
round
trip.
You
know
mean
on
a
ferry
to
get
to
the
next
RBS
branch.
G
N
There
I
mean
I've
said
a
couple
of
years
ago.
There
were
changes
and
regulations
to
banks
about
separating
the
commercial
arm
of
the
bank
with
the
high
street
bank,
so
changes
can
be
done
by
government
to
regulations.
You
think
we've
got
to
the
point
was
a
water
shared
moment.
Okay
government
has
to
step
in
well.
G
To
be
fair
from
investment
banks
to
retail
banking,
you
know
that
the
ring-fence
banks-
that's
all
moving
along
this
Huber's
regards
to
that.
So
you
know
the
banks
will
come
out
now.
No
sir
I
have
no
doubt
soon
because
there's
there's
discussions
about
them,
so
we
wait
for
what
what
comes
out
to
the
ring-fence
banks,
but
absolutely.
H
As
I
mean
the
the
the
government
had
an
opportunity
and
2015
I
think
it
was
to
actually
vote
in
legislation
as
we
were
discussing
and
it
field.
So
why
field
as
another
question
I
know
that
the
Vince
Vince
cable
was
very
much
for
it,
but
the
but
it
field.
So
we
have
tried
once
and
I
think
we
should
set
the
try
again,
but,
as
I
said,
we
did
have
the
opportunity
to
her
2015-2016
to
bring
this
into
fruition,
but
with
71
percent
ownership
of
the
Royal
Bank
of
Scotland
is
not
the
tail
wagging
the
dog.
A
C
Thank
you
very
much
convener
and
welcome
to
the
panel
today
the
area
that
I
represent
Highlands
and
Islands.
Obviously,
there's
been
a
number
of
closures
across
across
the
region
and
and
I'm
very
aware
of
the
impact.
That's
had
on
quite
a
lot
of
small
communities.
Many
the
remote
communities
there
so
can
I
ask
a
question,
but
can
I
ask
it
as
a
almost
as
a
devil's
advocate,
because
it's
as
I
say,
I'm
my
love
on
oourtney
and
we
very
much
value
our
local
banks
and
the
ability
to
to
access
them.
C
C
H
You're
missing
you're
missing
something
that's
very,
very
important:
you're
missing
the
face-to-face
transactions
which
people
like
so
not
again
as
just
part
of
the
solution,
is
electronic
and
voice
recognition,
etc,
etc.
But
as
a
banker,
you
know
as
I
see
of
30
odd
years,
there's
nothing
more
important
than
sitting
down
with
your
customer
and
actually
speaking
to
them
and
whether
you
do
that
by
Skype
or
whatever,
which
is
I,
mean
I,
don't
think
no,
the
Box,
you
know
and
they
could
use
escape
and
the
branches
or
mortgage
advice
for
example.
H
C
I
recognize
people
in
and
from
my
own
personal
banking
preferences.
That
is
the
way
I
bank,
but
I'm.
Just
talking
about
hypothetically
I
mean
we
are
we
there
are
less
and
less
or
fewer
and
fewer
sorry
could
have
face-to-face
interactions
and
when
we
shop
or
whatever
we
deal
where
we
access
services,
so
it
was
just.
It
was
just
an
interest
there
and
I
very
much
take
the
point.
C
H
Those
living
with
dementia,
for
example,
will
never
be
able
to
use
banking,
and-
and
that's
why
face
to
face-
is
very,
very
important
for
these
these
people.
So
as
I
say
it's
not
it's
not
a
one
fair
all
know,
we
have
to
again
think
about
the
box
and
be
sure
table.
Why
not?
We
can
have
branches
and
we
can
have
a
it.
Can
all
eleven
together.
There's
no
reason
why
it
can't,
but
they
have
to
get
rid
of
this
rigid
main
set
that
the
banks
have
at
the
moment.
H
If
your
branch,
if
they
see
that
the
branch
is
not
actually
making
a
profit,
then
they
just
want
to
close
it.
It's
very
short
minded
and
I
think
we
have
to
make
them
recognize
that
the
impact
that
that
can
have
one
on
communities,
what
with
them
to
make
banks
more
user-friendly
because
a
lot
of
people
don't
like
using
banks.
No,
because
the
you
go
into
a
bank
and
the
first
thing
it
hits
you
somebody's
trying
to
sell
you
something,
and
then
you
go
to
the
tailor.
C
G
G
I
have
more
I
have
more
I
have
no
doubt
they
will
be
looking
for
more
branch
closures
in
England
and
Wales
I
think
the
currently
RBS
have
750
three
branches,
89
of
which
is
Scottish.
The
rest
are
all
England
and
Wales
base.
They
constantly
tell
us
that
RBS
serves
600
communities.
You
don't
need
to
be
a
mathematician
with
regards
to
what
comfortable
number
RBS
would
probably
want
to
get.
Don't
was
regards
to
its
branch
number
and.
C
G
I
A
K
Sure
no
pressure
and
that's
even
better
yet
last
question
I
was
thinking
about
that,
but
the
changing
generations,
and
whether
in
20
years,
this
will
be
less
an
issue.
I
think
that
probably
is
true
but
I
think
it's
a
short
sharp
shock
for
a
lot
of
people
who
aren't
prepared
for
the
impact
of
it,
and
certainly
from
the
Citizens
Advice
perspective.
People
still
want
face
to
face
advice
and
word
demands
LEDs.
K
We
have
5
million
people
come
through
a
website,
but
we
still
have
something
a
hundred
and
seventy
thousand
people
come
for
as
for
face
to
face
advice.
So
we
know
people
still
require
that
and
I
think.
If
the
banks
are
there,
then
that's
gonna
be
a
big
demands
that
isn't
going
to
go
away
overnight
and
it
isn't
just
the
older
generations.
K
It's
the
people
living
more
deprived
areas
who
have
sort
of
cost
and
knowledge
bearers
and
to
use
an
Internet
and
they're
gonna
be
badly
affected
than
the
people
that
digital
access
hasn't
caught
up
with,
yet
that
Broadband's
they're
gonna
be
in
patches
and
so
I
think.
Your
point
is
Right
20
years
time.
This
won't
be
such
an
issue,
but
you
know
today,
over
the
summer
in
Christmas,
it's
gonna
be
a
huge
issue.
Thank
you.
All.