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From YouTube: Economy, Energy and Fair Work Committee - 1 October 2019
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A
Good
morning
and
welcome
to
the
27th
meeting
of
the
economy,
energy
and
Fair
Work
committee
for
2019
I
would
ask
everyone
the
public
gallery
to
turn
off
any
electrical
devices
that
might
interfere
with
committee
proceedings.
We've
received
an
apology
for
today's
meeting
from
committee
member
Andy
Whiteman
item
1
on
the
agenda
is
a
decision
to
take
items
5
6,
&
7
in
private?
Is
the
committee
agreed.
B
A
You
we
now
come
to
item
2
in
the
agenda,
which
is
pre,
budget
scrutiny
and
I
would
welcome.
Derek
Makai
cabinet
secretary
for
finance,
economy
and
fair
work
and
with
them
is
also
Richard.
Rollerson
who's.
The
interim
director
of
economic
development
and
Kathleen
Swift,
a
the
business
manager
I
understand
Mr
McKay.
You
have
a
brief
opening
statement
so
I'll
hand
over
to
you
at
this
point.
Before
we
come
to
committee
questions.
Thank.
C
You
convene
good
morning
the
2019-20
budget
sought
to
strengthen
Scotland's
economic
prosperity
against
the
backdrop
of
the
UK's
exit
from
the
European
Union.
The
Scottish
government
remains
ambitious
for
our
country
and
the
economy.
The
2019-20
budget
plans
invested
five
thousand
pounds
to
grow
in
modernize
Scotland's
infrastructure.
We
created
the
50
million
pine
stone
Center
fund
provided
resources
to
the
Scottish
national
investment
bank,
precursor
funds
and
finances
early
activities.
The
programme
for
government,
of
course
say,
will
work
west.
C
Overall,
we
are
targeting
up
to
80
million
pounds
and
European
funding
to
establish
an
advanced
manufacturing
fund
to
ensure
all
parts
of
Scotland
benefit
from
the
developments
and
advanced
manufacturing
and
we're
investing
20
million
pounds
over
the
next
three
years
to
enhance
and
intensify
support
to
businesses
wishing
to
export
having
published
our
export
plan,
a
trading
nation.
On
the
1st
of
me,
looking
forward
to
the
2020
21
budget,
the
UK
government
has
announced
a
1
year
spending
round
on
the
4th
of
September.
C
However,
without
the
tax
announcements
and
the
economic
forecast
of
a
full
UK
budget,
the
UK
spending
round,
it
does
not
gather
enough
clarity
of
the
funding
available
for
Scotland
in
2020
21.
The
UK
government
has
not
yet
announced
the
date
for
its
autumn
budget,
exiting
the
EU
and
particularly
a
disorderly
breaks
that
will
be
the
biggest
and
most
economically
disruptive
challenge
the
Scottish
Government
has
had
to
face.
So
prioritization
continues
to
be
necessary
to
focus
resource.
We
all
have
the
biggest
impact,
and
this
is
why
it's
important
to
undertake
a
spending
review.
C
The
Spain
review
will
focus
on
the
outcomes
and
well-being,
a
in
line
with
the
national
performance
framework
and
a
strategic
focus
well
be
addressing
Scotland's
long-term
challenges,
notably
climate
change
and
child
poverty.
An
economic
action
plan
will
be
refreshed
in
the
autumn
to
reflect
progress
and
implementing
measures
and
to
reflect
new
commitments
included
inertia's
programme
for
government.
Its
aim
is
to
help
out
a
strong,
vibrant
and
diverse
economy
that
promotes
well-being
and
attracts
investment.
C
D
However,
it
took
us
three
weeks
to
get
the
information
that
we'd
requested
off
them
arrived
just
actually
after
the
committee
were
in
the
afternoon
after
the
committee
had
met.
So
in
light
of
the
data
that
we
we
eventually
received,
can
the
cabinet
secretary
tell
us
where
he
believes?
Rsa
is
meeting
that
objective
of
combating
regional
inequality,
I
believe.
C
That
is
meeting
the
overall
objective,
an
incidental,
if
there's
any
issue,
of
course,
of
lack
of
information
and
I'm
sure
that
will
be
taken
up
with
agencies
and
we've
certainly
reinforced
the
point
of
expect
information
to
come
to
committees
in
a
timely
fashion
as
well.
But
we
do
believe
that
is
achieving
that
objective.
C
But
Eddie's
RSA,
of
course,
is
one
part
of
the
overall
new
funding
available
for
business
supports
and
to
support
jobs
as
well.
So
it's
one
strand
of
that
and
because
it's
a
demand,
late
budget
I
demand
late,
a
application,
I
suppose
in
and
out
partly
determined
where
the
resources
are
deployed.
But
certainly
it
covers
all
of
Scotland
and
we
believe
it
is
meeting
that
objective.
D
Thank
you.
Thanks
for
that
and
I
appreciate
the
comment
you
make,
the
the
highest
level
of
RSA
grant
available
the
Tier
two
sparsely
populated
areas.
This
designation
covers
much
of
the
Highlands
and
Islands
region,
so
the
figures
that
we
did
eventually
receive
show
there
had
been
no
RSA
grants
in
the
Highlands
Islands
area
for
three
years.
That's
none
in
any
of
the
local
authority
areas
at
all.
Do
you
find
that
surprising
I
appreciate
its
demand
led?
But
would
you
not
expect
one
of
the
most
suitable,
perhaps
areas
for
our
essayed
to
have
no
accepted?
D
C
That
I
mean
first
of
all,
a
slight
and
split
and
responsibility
and,
of
course,
fair
to
shooing
leaves
on
the
rural
economy
in
his
elite.
Mana
stand
relation
to
Halen's,
Nayland
enterprise,
but,
of
course
RAC
as
delivered
by
Scottish
Enterprise,
just
for
clarity
there
in
terms
of
that,
because
of
RAC
and
the
nature
of
it
being
demand
laid
in
turn
in
terms
of
what
projects
may
come
forward,
we
won't
make
sure
that
it
can
be
deployed
across
Scotland.
Of
course,
we
do,
but
I
wouldn't
put
a
value
judgment
on
where
projects
are
actually
being
delivered.
D
So
you're
confident
this
is
a
demand
issue
within
the
highlands
of
Islands
rather
than
either
businesses
aren't
aware
of
it
or
the
Scottish
Enterprise
aren't
promoting
it
strongly
enough
or
there
isn't
that
regional
collaboration,
cooperation
between
Highlands
and
Islands
Enterprise
and
Scottish
Enterprise.
You
think
it
is
purely
a
demand
issue
because.
C
Of
the
other
grants
and
other
investments
that
have
been
made
in
the
highlands
and
islands
and
because
I
know,
the
level
of
joint
working
between
the
enterprise
agencies
would
lead
me
to
believe
that
that's
that
proactivity
would
I
like
to
see
further.
You
know,
distribution
of
RAC
across
the
country,
of
course,
I
think
we
share
that
in,
but
it's
certainly
not
down
to
any
systemic
failure.
D
C
There,
possibly
the
the
nature
of
the
aim
criteria
of
our
investment
as
well
and
yes,
I
haven't
had
a
company
say
to
me
that
they
had
tried
to
pursue
you
and
there
was
any
lack
of
either
awareness
or
effort
to
try
and
secure
grants
for
companies
in
the
Highlands
and
Islands
again.
Forego
shooing
covers
a
that
territory
more,
but
you
know
there's
an
expectation
that
Scottish
enterprises
lead.
The
agency
would
be
proactive
and
trying
to
ensure
that
RAC
was
deployed,
if
that
was
the
most
appropriate
financial
mechanism,
to
support
that
business
growth.
When.
D
You
saw
these
figures
which
showed
that
there'd
be
no
no
cases
in
the
highlands
of
aliens
for
three
years
and
Scottish
Enterprise
er
under
your
responsibility.
What
did
you
ask
Scottish
Enterprise?
Did
you
clarify
for
them?
Why
the
way
that
perhaps
we'll
see
lack
of
cases
have
you
spoken
to
them
about
the
demand
in
the
region?
There's.
D
C
So
I
understand
the
point:
that's
been
a
made
by
master
Johnson,
but
what
I'm
trying
to
reassure
the
member
of
is
that
I'm
satisfied
that
the
process
is
in
the
actions
in
place.
If
there
was
a
company
in
a
project
that
met
the
criteria,
was
up
for
that
investment
I'm
quite
sure
that
they
would
get
if
they
made
all
the
necessary
criteria.
So
I'm
more
reassured
of
that,
knowing
that
as
a
range
of
agios
that
can
be
deployed,
that
will
support
our
economy
aim
but
a
is
possibly
the
nature
of
skill
and
manufacturing
base.
C
We
are
most
of
the
manufacturing
bases
in
the
country
and
also
we
are
definite
as
a
feature
across
the
geography
country
as
well.
So
a
tourism,
for
example,
is
more
of
a
sector
in
Highlands
and
Islands,
and
therefore
I
would
expect
more
support
to
be
appropriately
or
from
Seavers
with
Scotland
and
necessarily
just
one
strand
of
the
funding
stream
with
an
enterprise
family
I
understand
the
point
that's
been
made.
I
would
expect
the
enterprise
agencies
to
be
proactive
in
trying
to
ensure
that
there
is
that
distribution
of
funds.
But
it's
not
like
a
formula.
C
They
easy,
you
know,
it
must
be
Spain
across
the
country
and
almost
per
head
basis
is
where
the
applications
come
from,
based
in
the
criteria,
the
demand
projects
and,
as
I,
seen
some
regards
in
relation
to
RAC.
Bear
in
mind
that
some
elements
of
RAC
can
be
technology
or
plant
aim
that
you
know.
That
leads
you
to
where
much
of
the
manufacturing
bases
in
the
country
as
well
appreciate.
D
That
but
I'm
not
and
I'm
encouraged
that
you
reassured
but
I'm.
What
I'm
trying
to
find
out
is
how
why
you
reassured
other
than
that
you
have
confidence
in
Scottish,
Enterprise
are
doing
their
job
and
perhaps
there
are
different
different
criteria
that
may
impact
on
the
number
of
applications.
What
I'm
asking
to
have
has
there
been
any
correspondence
with
Scottish
Enterprise
to
get
their
assurances
of
why
this
situation
is
has
come
about
if.
C
You
know
if
the
committee
feels
it's
not
satisfied
with
that.
Then
I
would
certainly
encourage
you
to
return
to
Scotch
Enterprise,
as
a
lead
agency
to
pause
was
very
particular
question
about.
You
know.
What
are
you
doing
to
make
sure
those
awareness
of
RAC
and
inappropriate
delivery
over
I'm,
saying
I'm
reassured
they
would
be
proactive?
C
So
the
point
that
I'm
making
is
a
desi
is
just
one
part
of
financial
support
and
it
has
to
be
seen
within
the
global
context
and
I'm
reassured
because
I
don't
see
a
reason
why
they
wouldn't
try
to
encourage
companies
right
across
the
country
to
benefit
from
RSA,
as
it
might
be.
The
nature
of
the
funding
where
the
manufacturing
bases
or
the
other
tools
are
more
appropriate
to
Highlands
and
Islands
baring
mind.
C
D
E
Know
the
modern
cabinet
secretaries
to
to
the
top
tier
sugar,
the
original
imbalances
that
was
being
discussed,
zero,
but
an
initialcontext.
If
you
don't
mind
our
offer,
one
was
really
pleased
to
hear
about
the
change
in
direction.
The
Scottish
Enterprise
told
us
about
last
year.
Stephen
law
remains
it
as
the
there
are
difficulties
in
sailing
investments,
for
example,
inertia
the
economy
compared
to
CN
bra,
or
how
do
you
see
is
resolving
that
kind
of
issue?
E
C
Wider
than
just
they
Enterprise
agency's
intervention,
some
of
it
will
be
about
infrastructure
that
can
be
transport
that
can
be
digital.
A
there
are
growth
deals.
We
want
growth,
deals
to
cover
every
part
of
the
country
and,
of
course,
as
their
Shore
growth
deal
as
well,
and
then
other
financial
mechanisms
and
then
thoroughness
of
time.
C
The
Scottish
national
investment
bank
will
be
able
to
invest
as
well
having
a
competitive
tax
regimes
good
for
the
entire
country
and
then
investing
in
the
key
strands
of
the
economic
strategy,
around
internationalization,
a
innovation
as
well
a
infrastructure
that
inclusive
growth
agenda.
But
when
it
comes
to
the
enterprise
grants
name
to
price
family,
they
can
try
and
stimulate
demand.
Of
course
they
can
and
focus
on
place
and
see
you
know
different
parts
of
the
country.
C
It
should
be
considered
for
investment,
but
on
some
of
this
we
have
to
follow
the
economic
opportunity
of
where
businesses
want
to
go
and
a
particular
success
story
at
the
moment
would
be
a
scale,
a
Barclays
Bank.
You
know
creating
over
2,000
new
jobs
in
Glasgow,
but
also
Barclays
is
now
very
involved
in
Asia
and
Kilmarnock.
Understand
this
way
also
an
example
where,
in
establishing,
where
investment
is
being
its
desired,
desirable
where
it
wants
to
go
and
we
can
try
and
see
if
we
can
get
more
of
the
economic
benefits
to
spray
it
beyond.
C
Just
the
big
cities
as
well.
Studies
are
important.
The
economic
strategy
tries
to
support
the
whole
country
in
a
range
of
definite
ways
and
very
mindful
of
scale
as
well.
You
know
20
jobs
and
a
more
rude
or
peripheral
community.
A
can
be
massive
compared
to
you
know,
20
jobs
being
created,
for
example,
in
the
cities
of
Aden,
broad,
Aberdeen
or
or
Glasgow
specifically
so
I
think
that's
why
we're
trying
to
target
efforts
towards
the
towns
and
rural
communities,
as
well
as
the
city's
good?
Thank.
E
F
A
G
C
Let's
be
clear,
vague
a
company
shouldn't
be
getting
RACF
its
distressed,
so
to
speak,
I
mean
those
are
things
the
government
can
do
to
support
a
company.
There
is
in
financial
distress
suarez.
They
should
be
a
bit
generous
in
sustaining
jobs
or
new
jobs
or
in
investing
in
that
infrastructure,
but
it
is
true
to
say
that
some
companies,
subsequent
to
may
be
receiving
RAC,
have
then
gotten
too
difficult
in
any
questions
asked
where
you're
trying
to
help
this
company,
that
was
in
difficulty
as
I
say,
there
are
definite
levels.
G
Company
who's
applying
for
RAC
should
put
up
the
idea
that
they've
got
promote
how
many
jobs
are
going
to
bring
to
a
particular
area.
Whatever
is
and
I'm
sure
we
want
to
encourage
people
Halen's,
they
on-snow
to
apply
for
RAC,
but
basically
do
you
think
RS
ish
the
system
and
itself
should
be
reviewed.
Well,.
C
C
We
have
available
right,
inappropriate
and
need
to
be
rebalanced
and
I
also
want
to
try
and
simplify
it
as
much
as
I
can
as
well,
and
we
may
come
back
to
this
in
relation
to
how
we
support
businesses
because
we're
pursuing
the
single
portal
as
well
so
I
think
it's
right
to
look
at
the
range
of
financial
products.
We
have
to
see
what's
the
appropriate
balance
going
forward
and
so
how
we
respond
to
the
economic
in
a
situation
at
the
time
you
know.
Where
are
we
where
worth
breaks
that?
Where
will
we
be
with
demand?
C
You
know
what
are
the
banks
doing
and
again
we
made
a
ton
to
that
and
our
breaks
in
preparedness
discussion,
but
in
relation
to
our
a
say
to
go
back
to
the
premise
of
the
question,
it
should
be
about
protecting
jobs
and
growing
jobs
in
it's
not
about
so
to
speak
bailing
our
company
and
difficulty
because
of
it
have
to
be
the
due
diligence.
A
company
has
to
be
viable.
C
A
project
has
to
be
worthy
and
there's
an
appraisal
process
in
place
to
a
deal
to
deal
with
that
as
I
say
after
a
currently
receives
our
si,
it's
not
impossible
that
it
gets
into
difficulty
for
whatever
reason,
and
of
course
we
will
then
have
the
return
to
that
in
terms
of
grants,
potential
clawback
and
the
appropriate.
You
know
potentially
further
a
government
action
but,
of
course,
would
have
to
comply
within
the
law
and
state
legislation
as
I
existed
at
the
time.
Do.
G
You
think
last:
where
do
you
think
Scottish
Enterprise
and
entails
angles?
Enterprise
should
review
how
doing
without
AC
and
how
best
to
improve
it,
because
we
know
that
it
has
done
what
a
good,
as
you
see
its
went
at
the
various
forums
and
and
promoted
jobs
and
improve
jobs
and
brought
jobs
and
I
think
the
lights.
You
know
no
one
can
tell
the
future
tomorrow,
sadly,
but
basically
a
situation
as
that.
G
C
Have
with
let
me
separate
the
question
into
two
component
parts.
First
of
all,
I
do
think
we
need
to
review
all
our
financial
products,
because
we'll
have
to
do
that.
No
feasts
in
the
economic
turbulence
that
we're
facing
anyway
or
more
positively,
because
we're
developing
a
national
investment
bank
that
we
should
always
have
been
looking
at
the
financial
products
and
say
you
know,
what's
the
criteria
for
each,
how
do
we
respond
to
the
needs
of
the
economy?
So
I
think
that
should
have
happened
anyway.
C
C
The
nor
every
company
will
be
a
success,
but
I
do
think
we
should
focus
on
what
financial
products
are
available
in
responding
to
both
the
challenges
were
about
to
face
inevitably
and
the
opportunities
that
are
in
the
economy
as
well,
and
that's
something
I
am
engaging
with
the
enterprise
family
on
so.
Lastly,.
C
I
have
as
half
my
ministerial
colleagues
visited
many
of
these
companies,
where
you
know
some
companies
would
not
of
growing
we'd
know
of
Carib
jobs,
and
indeed
some
companies
may
not
I've
invested
in
Scotland.
If
it
wasn't
for
our
AAC
and
surely
we
all
shared
a
passion
and
a
schematic
to
try
and
support
and
create
new
quality
jobs
and
I
do
believe
that
XE
has
been
achieving
that.
Thank
you.
H
It's
published
a
report
recently
on
on
walking
productivity
across
new
key
regions
and
nations,
and
its
main
findings
in
Scotland
stated
that
productivity
growth
in
Scotland
Azote
performed
the
UK
average
in
recent
years.
Closing
a
previous
gap,
the
ons
data
possession
Scotland's
open,
but
what
99.8%
of
the
UK
average
for
impact
as
a
RAC
had
on
the
productivity
of
recipient
companies?
H
C
Certainly,
aim
were
focusing
on
productivity
and
CBI
in
a
KPMG.
I
was
at
the
launch
of
just
launched
a
new
index
around
productivity,
and
there
has
been
a
real
a
focus
on.
It
was
performed
better
over
the
period
of
devolution
it
compared
to
the
rest
of
the
UK,
but
certainly
we
lag
international
standards
in
comparison.
So
we
want
that
to
improve.
C
I
should
see
at
this
point,
though,
that
appeals
I
know
that
productivity
progress
has
been
impeded
because
of
breaks,
that
companies
are
putting
more
effort
and
two
breaks
at
preparedness
and
caution
around
investment
and
the
productivity
challenge,
and
that's
something
that
we
should
keep
a
very
close
eye
on.
There's.
C
I
A
A
H
Anyway,
to
continue
the
last
time
our
essay
was
reviewed.
The
report
stated
the
most
common
effects
were
on
productivity
and
sales
growth,
improved
efficiency
of
machinery
at
the
introduction
or
significant
improved
Prolog
subprocesses.
That
was
the
last
time
it
was
reviewed
in
a
review
related
to
2002
2004.
The
current
review,
that's
underway
2020,
were
likely
to
hear
the
outcome
of
that.
That
review
is
taking
place
at
the
moment.
I'm.
Do
you
think
it
will
have
a
similar.
H
You
touched
upon
the
Scottish
productivity
index
of
Ag
launched
recently,
and
the
needs
for
skills
that
productivity
index
launched,
highlighted
the
need
for
prioritizing
investment
and
management
and
leadership.
Skills
plus
I
need
for
everyone
and
their
workforce
to
be
governed.
Basic
digital
training
by
2025,
the
governing
the
enterprise
and
scale
strategic
board
has
tasked
both
the
enterprise
agencies
and
scows
agencies
to
collectively
improve
productivity,
working
with
industry
and
businesses.
What
are
the
enterprise
agencies
doing
it?
Tackle
less
challenge?
Well,.
C
They
will
engage
with
individual
companies
and
can
come
up
with
a
bespoke
package
for
those
individual
companies,
around
management
or
training
or
expertise
in
sometimes
support
for
businesses
include
bringing
an
expertise
as
well,
in
fact,
in
the
brexit
preparations
right
now,
and
we
are
those
particular
grants-
support
to
look
at
expertise
to
bring
end
preparations
for
brexit.
But
as
I
say,
enterprise
agencies
can
support
companies
on
training
and
research
and
developments
important
as
well,
and
we're
increasing
the
support
around
research
and
development
and
but
I.
C
Think
importantly,
here
they
partly
what
the
CBI
and
the
KPMG
work
projected
was
also
a
responsibility
on
business
as
well,
and
a
lot
of
businesses
are
just
you
struggling
to
get
by,
but
also
need
to
look
to
the
future,
invest
in
quality,
invest
and
management
in
training,
and
in
all
of
that,
there's
a
responsibility
amongst
businesses
to
look
at
little
instructors,
see
what
supports
available
and
has
also
support
from
skills
development
Scotland
as
well.
So
as
I
said,
there
is
a
response
around
management
challenge,
I,
don't
aim
quality
and
skills
and
rescaling
as
well.
A
I
On
the
productivity
challenge,
given
the
invitation
by
the
cabinet's
actually
to
do
so,
he
will
of
course
remembered
not
that
it
was
his
responsibility,
but
one
of
his
predecessors
set
a
target
to
move
Scotland's
productivity
from
second
quartile
of
the
OECD
index
to
the
first
quartile.
In
fact,
during
the
period
your
target
was
in
place,
it
fell
to
the
third
quartile
I'm
sure
the
cabinet
secretary
would
want
to
confirm
that
this
was
during
a
period
where
brexit
wasn't
even
a
twinkle
in
anyone's
eye.
C
I
think
the
point
that
I
was
making
and
I
think
it's
an
important
point,
because
I
know
Jackie
Baillie
is
against
pricks
as
well.
The
point
I
was
making
is
the
content
else.
I
was
governed
the
most
up
to
date.
Possession
is
the
gains
made
on
productivity,
will
be
lost
and
impeded.
I'll
come
back
to
the
pass,
but
I
think
it's
important
to
see
right
now
that
we
can
only
make
progress
from
here
into
the
future.
C
I
Secretary
I
think
you
know,
your
ambition
is
pretty
low
if
all
you're
doing
is
comparing
yourself
to
the
rest
of
the
UK
when
they've
had
a
particularly
bad
performance
round
about
productivity,
I
think
my
issue
is,
you
need
to
understand
the
past
and
why
we
failed
in
terms
of
productivity
increases
in
order
to
inform
the
future
and
simply
blaming
it
on
brexit
I,
don't
think,
gets
us
there.
I
think.
C
Between
2017
and
2018
productivity
in
Scotland
has
grown
an
annual
average
rate
of
1%
per
year
compared
to
the
UK
average
of
0.2
percent
over
that
period.
But
I
agree
with
Jackie
Baillie.
We
don't
want
to
just
match
the
UK.
We
want
to
perform
like
small,
advanced
economies
around
the
world,
independent
economies
who
have
done
much
better
than
UK
and
much
better
than
Scotland.
That
is
true,
Jackie
Baillie!
That's
what
I
aspire
to.
C
That's
why
the
economic
strategy,
around
innovation,
internationalisation,
more
around
infrastructure,
a
more
our
own
quality,
not
scaling
and
V
scaling,
will
all
make
a
difference
in
terms
of
the
productivity
challenge.
But
it's
true
to
say
that
the
greatest
threat
to
the
productivity
opportunity
and
challenge
right
now
is
the
threat
that
we're
facing
from
brexit.
A
J
C
Well,
I
think
the
I
believe
and
know
that
they
are
being
very
proactive
through
their
communication
systems.
They
can
respond
to
individual
economic
circumstance
with
bespoke
packages
of
support.
They
both
signpost
to
the
most
appropriate
kind
of
financial
support
or
opportunity
as
well,
and
so
from
all
of
that
and
reassured
that
they
are
promoting
a
what
is
available
right
now,
but
right
across
the
range
of
assistance
that
we
have
for
businesses.
C
I
do
want
to
simplify
that,
which
is
why
I'm
so
supportive
of
the
single
portal,
so
that
businesses
can
come
and
once
and
then
it's
up
to
the
enterprise
agencies
to
organise
what
the
appropriate
responses
and
what
package
of
support
can
help
an
individual
applicant
or
company
and
I.
Think
that's
why
the
diagnostics
behind
that
confront
facing
business
support
will
be
so
important.
J
C
So
the
companies
we
know
decided
to
cease
a
tire
manufacturing
at
the
plant,
but
we
were
able
to
convince
them
to
stay,
and
then
we
look
at
the
appropriate
support
that
might
be
relevant
going
into
the
future
in
ensuring
that
we
have
a
package
of
support.
That's
right
for
that
investment,
but
it
hasn't
necessarily,
you
know
been
specific
product
in
the
past,
so
I
am
Sina
agility
in
the
enterprise
family.
C
The
same
goes
for
skills,
development
Scotland
as
well,
of
course,
because
you
know
the
big
numbers
number
one
biggest
issue
with
businesses
right
now
is
actually
skills
and
availability
of
people
in
terms
of
those
challenges.
Therefore,
a
it's
important
airline
skills
and
skills
development
Scotland
with
financial
assistance
that
I
know
that's
a
key
Matty's,
focusing
on
a
small
line.
I
guess.
J
The
the
concern
is
that
if
the
products
are
all
off-the-shelf,
products
and
you've
highlighted
specific
events,
for
example
Mitchell
and
where
there
has
been
that
flexibility
and
so
forth.
But
these
are
high-profile
events
that
you
would
hope
there
would
be
that
flexibility
and
but
if
you're,
just
a
an
ordinary
Joe
Bloggs
company
coming
for
an
off-the-shelf
product.
C
A
reminder
all
over
the
last
five
years
over
our
nearly
four
hundred
companies
of
benefited
from
RSA.
So
it's
nearly
four
hundred
companies
over
the
period
of
five
years,
just
from
RSA,
but
in
terms
of
wider
products.
There
is
a
very
wide
range
of
financial
products
able
to
support
businesses.
However,
I'm
I
would,
and
I
am
reassured
that
we
can
create
bespoke
packages
and
actually
engage
with
companies
themself
to
a
design.
The
financial
support,
that's
right
for
them,
so
I'm
trying
to
emphasize
the
point
that
it
can
be
bespoke.
C
J
C
Own,
if
you
just
been
specific
to
reac
again
in
a
criteria
set
for
I'm
talking
about
the
overall
package
right
across
the
whole
system,
you
know
company
would
go
and
Scotia
enterprise
and
say
I'm
only
interested
in
RAC.
You
see
what.
How
can
you
help
is?
So
that's
what
I'm,
seeing
the
fill
tool
box
is
really
appropriate
here,
I'm
and
we
can.
C
We
can
certainly
a
come
back
to
you
with
examples
of
how
that's
been
the
case,
if
that's
of
assistance
a
to
their
committee
and
what
I
want
to
do,
though,
with
responsibility
right
across
this
is
ensure
that
there's
alignment
and
cohesion
and
we're
making
it
as
easy
as
possible
for
companies
to
get
the
widest
range
of
support.
So
we
can
have
a
package
of
support,
and
that
goes
beyond
just
one
enterprise
agency.
As
I
see
it
might
be
skills,
it
may
be
visit
Scotland.
C
You
know
that
those
different
ways
we
can
support
a
country,
so
I
company
that
sensitive
a
to
that
individual
a
needs.
So,
yes,
we
can,
we
can
deliver
a
tailor
package
to
a
company
can
come
back.
If
you
want
individual
examples
of
how
we've
been
able
to
do
that,
if
that's
of
assistance
be
of
interest-
yes,
just.
J
Moving
on
slightly
looking
at
the
strategic
direction
of
Scottish
Enterprise
they're,
shifting
to
a
broader
support
role
for
businesses
to
help
create
quality
jobs
and
tackle
inequalities,
and
so
on,
however,
the
former
chief
executive
of
Scottish
Enterprise
Jack
Perry
in
this
month,
Business
Insider
magazine,
revealed
certainly
frustrations
and
possibly
disagreement
on
Scottish
enterprises
current
direction,
and
he
stated
that
he
believed
that
the
new
strategy
is
based
on
political
rather
than
economic
goals,
and
the
Scottish
Enterprise
is
creating
the
conditions
for
more
disappointment
in
the
future.
What
are
your
views
to
these
comments?
He.
C
Said
Jack
is
totally
entitled
to
has
opinion
naturally
and
I
actually
think
that
it's
a
good
thing
if
the
enterprise
agency
is
responding
to
the
strategic
guidance
that
we
gave
them
to
the
national
performance
framework
and
actually
I
member
attending
this
committee.
For
the
first
time
when
I
had
instability
for
the
economy
and
I
said
I
wanted
to
respond
to
the
committee's
report
in
terms
of
how
it
supports
businesses
in
the
economy
and
the
consensus
they
exists,
and
the
Parliament
and
I
think
in
ensuring
that
the
enterprise
agencies
respond
to
that
political
direction.
C
Every
member
of
this
committee
is
political
and
we
are
trying
to
ensure
that
were
supporting
the
economy
in
a
really
inclusive
way
and
of
course,
that's
moved
on.
For
example,
if
you
take
the
politics
of
the
climate
emergency
clearly
that
our
future
and
our
policies
going
forward,
so
the
enterprise
agencies
have
a
clear
economic
function,
but
it's
also
to
understand
the
political
direction
of
the
country
and
I've
tried
to
act
in
a
really
consensual
way,
and
some
of
the
themes
that
this
committee
reinforced
was
support.
Businesses
no
matter
of
scale
police
was
really
important.
C
You've
emphasized
that
again
this
morning,
not
just
pursue
the
what
some
would
describe
as
the
you
know,
N
word
investment,
art
skill,
but
look
at
the
businesses
that
can
grow
in
Scotland
and
have
a
real
focus
on
jobs
and
that's
the
kind
of
political
direction
we've
given.
This
committee
has
agreed
with
that
aim.
A
direction
of
travel
and
so
I
will
defend
the
the
plans
from
Scottish
Enterprise,
because
I
think
it
reflects
what
we're
seeking
as
a
country
as
a
parliament
and
as
a
government
is.
C
I
think
it
would
be
more
sensitive
to
the
opportunities
that
exist
and
Scotia
Enterprise
right
now.
You
can
achieve
both,
so
it's
helped
attract
Barclays,
which
is
an
investment
art
scale
over
2,500
new
jobs
at
scale
in
Glasgow,
but
can
also
support
those
smaller
businesses
that
want
to
develop
as
well
and
forgot
a
real
focus
on
jobs
and
be
remained.
We
had
unemployment
at
the
lowest
levels
and
hastily.
C
Now
it's
gone
back
up
because
of
the
Black
Sea
issues,
but
we
had
unemployment,
a
record-low,
3.2
percent,
now
increasing
and
then
I
think
that
direction
and
our
investments
Benoit
fell.
So
no
I,
don't
think
it
will
be
diluted
and
I'm,
also
very
mindful
of
the
committee's
water
and
business
gateway.
J
C
There's
adequate
resources
if
you
look
at
the
internationalisation
strand
with
allocated
a
new
resources
around
the
export
strategy,
so
we
have
that
three-year
plan,
so
there's
20
million
pounds,
additional
resource
allocated
and
also
restructuring
and
reconfiguring
what
the
enterprise
agencies
do
is
important,
because
I
want
to
be
as
efficient
as
possible
and,
of
course,
I
has
been
a
recalibration
of
the
resources
within
the
enterprise
agencies
as
well
and
I.
Think
that's
redirected.
C
The
agencies
towards
priorities,
I
would
say
it's
just
broadening,
but
in
some
regards
that's
deepening
as
well,
so
we're
doing
more
around
digital
we're
doing
more.
A
around
aim
that
a
skills
gap,
a
gender
as
well
and
on
innovation.
There's
additional
funding
as
I
see
the
national
manufacturing
Institute
for
Scotland
the
advanced
manufacturing
Challenge
Fund.
So
there
was
very
specific
resources
to
help
us
with
what
we've
identified
are
key
strands
of
the
economic
strategy,
a
whilst
a
the
expectations
that
the
enterprise
agencies
were
to
be
more
efficient
and
I.
C
K
Last
week,
an
audit
Scotland
reports
highlighted
that
the
Scottish
government
has
lost
135
million
pounds
last
year
alone
in
failed
interventions
and
investments
in
two
companies.
That's
roughly
half
of
the
entire
budget
for
Scottish
enterprise,
and
it's
more
than
has
been
paid
out
under
the
Scottish
growth
scheme
in
the
past
three
years.
C
K
The
audit
Scotland
referred
to
them
in
their
report
and
the
the
the
the
also
highlighted
135
million
pounds
has
been
written
off
last
year
alone.
So
the
question
is
I'm
asking
I'm
not
second-guessing
the
merits
of
the
individual
interventions,
I'm
asking
about
how
you
will
measure
the
financial
returns
on
that
135
million
pounds
I'm
assure.
C
You
in
asking
the
question
that
Dean
Locker
understood
that
it
was
investment
and
those
kind
of
companies
that
the
Auditor
General
was
talking
about,
and
it's
not
array
off,
incidently
convenor,
it's
a
writedown
aim
and,
of
course,
was
a
distinction
between
the
two.
It's
also
not
impossible
that
a
value
of
investment
does
go
back
up
and
I
just
say
again
to
the
conservator.
C
Just
know
what
you're
criticizing
when
you
criticize
I've,
been
perfectly
clear
that
what
these
have
been
have
been
investments
that
the
government
has
made
going
through
all
the
due
diligence
to
invest
in
companies
to
allow
them
to
have
a
future,
and
specifically
they
are
preswick
Airport
by
fob
a
and
Ferguson's.
Now
F
members
say
we
shouldn't
have
invested
in
such
companies.
That's
an
opinion,
but
it's
been
the
view
of
the
Scottish
government
that
these
were
the
right
interventions
to
make
at
the
time
have
gone
through
Jude
allegiance.
C
Of
course,
I
want
them
to
be
a
success.
I
want
them
to
be
a
return
to
the
taxpayer,
but
if
we
hadn't
have
made
those
interventions,
many
hundreds
of
jobs
would
have
been
lost
and
not
recovered.
So
what
this
is,
is
the
government
using
a
fiscal
power
to
invest
in
the
country
to
support
the
economy
and,
of
course,
say
there
is
always
risk
with
such
an
investment.
By
hoping
all
of
those
examples,
the
situation
will
absolutely
be
turned
around.
C
The
by
fab
will
achieve
a
supply
of
work,
a
the
employment
numbers
will
go
back
up
and
the
company's
finances
will
be
strengthened.
I
hope
that
in
terms
of
a
place
work
as
a
viable
future
and,
of
course,
my
position
in
Ferguson's
and
F
mail,
it
was
well
understood
that
I
do
believe
that
our
shipyard
and
the
clade
also
has
a
future.
C
K
Think
the
concern
carbonate
sector
is
the
policy
approach
taken
by
the
Scottish
Government
in
intervening
in
certain
areas
order.
Scotland
said
last
week,
the
Scottish
government
has
not
developed
a
clear
framework
to
outline
its
approach
to
financial
interventions
in
private
companies.
We've
heard
evidence
time
and
again
that
this
committee,
that
inclusive
growth,
is
ill-defined
and
does
not
fit
to
shape
policy
intervention.
So
the
question
I
have
cabinet
secretaries.
These
interventions
look
at
talk
and
there's
not
part
of
an
overall
economic
policy,
a
coherent
economic
economic
policy
approach.
K
We
heard
that
in
evidence
in
relation
to
the
Scottish
national
investment
bank,
inclusive
growth
as
a
concept,
the
Scottish
governors
overriding
strategy
is
not
defined.
The
Fraser
founder
has
called
for
more
clarity
of
focus
in
relation
to
the
Scottish
Government's
economic
policy.
So
what
I'm
asking
you
is
when
it
comes
to
issues
like
inclusive
growth,
which
means
different
things
to
different
people,
and
when
comes
to
your
policy
of
intervening
in
the
economy.
When
are
we
going
to
see
more
clarity
in
relation
to
economic
policy?
Can.
C
I
say
in
relation
to
sometimes
are
the
financial
interventions
ad-hoc.
Well,
of
course
they
are
because
you
don't
know
necessarily
where
the
economic
difficulties
are
going
to
come
from,
which
company
might
happen
to
get
into
trouble,
and
that
was
my
point
that
it
was
just
been
placed
on
earlier
about.
C
It
wouldn't
be
true
to
see
that
that
isn't
a
framework
around
that
other
isn't
due
diligence
so
that
isn't
commercial
advice.
Every
intervention
we
make
financially
has
to
be
within
the
law.
Yeah
our
investments,
half
they
consider
the
public
sector
finance
manual.
They
all
have
to
meet
due
diligence.
They
have
to
be
value
for
money,
the
half
the
meet
state
state
aid
rules.
C
We
have
to
meet
market
economy
principles
as
well,
but
actually
a
range
of
documents
are
used
to
guide
any
investment
decision,
so
I
would
just
ask
agree
to
see
that
there
isn't
a
a
framework
or
a
context
in
which
the
decisions
are
made
because
of
political
decision.
Indeterminant
as
well,
is
the
government
and
its
agencies
willing
to
step
in
to
save
jobs
and
invest
in
the
economy?
C
Yes
or
no,
and
we've
chosen
yes
and
those
instances
where
we
believe
it's
appropriate
so
to
do,
and
that
has
gone
through
in
terms
of
saving
companies
and
allowing
other
investments
to
be
made
and
saving
hundreds
of
jobs
across
the
country
which
I
think
do
add
to
the
a
to
the
range
of
businesses
operating
in
our
country.
In
terms
of
the
issue
around
inclusive
growth,
I
I
know,
I've
had
this
to
be
before
I
think
the
definition
is
clear:
around
inclusive
growth
and,
of
course,
as
an
even
greater
focus
on
sustainable
in
economic
growth.
C
Inclusive
growth
is
divine,
as
defined
as
growth
that
combines
increase
prosperity
with
greater
equity
that
creates
opportunities
fro
and
distributes
the
dividends
of
increased
prosperity
fairly.
Of
course,
that
I
think
a
is
evident
through
the
fieldwork
agenda
were
focusing
on
place
more
tackling
inequality,
as
we
ensure
those
investment,
and
it's
largely
our
own
jobs,
real
driving
force
and
economic
strategy,
our
own
jobs
and
ensuring
that
a
jobs
are
distributed
and
enumerated
as
fairly
as
possible.
K
Rarely
be
follow-up
on
inclusive
growth.
Does
the
capital
sector
have
any
plans
to
develop
the
definition,
because
we
had
all
the
enterprise
agencies
here
telling
us
it
means
different
things
to
different
people
and
that
they
cannot
measure
it
precisely.
So,
if
you're
telling
me
you
have
finished
with
the
definition
my
contention
is,
it
is
not
an
economic
definition
that
you
can
measure,
and
it
is
not
one
that
you
can
measure
changes
in.
Let.
C
Me
try
and
find
a
point
of
consensus
with
Dean
lockhardt
and
it's
less,
maybe
the
the
definition
of
thinks
fine
and
I
think
the
national
performance
framework
clearly
says
so
purpose
and
values,
a
and
n
Decatur's
and
outcomes.
Now
the
reason
that
I
know
that
purpose,
not
definition,
must
be.
Okay
is
because
I
think
it
was
model.
Freezer
sat
on
a
cross-party
group
to
help
us
characterize
and
define
our
purpose.
So
there
was
a
cross-party
approach
to
that.
C
All
parties
were
on
it,
so
I
think
we
have
a
purpose
that
achieved
a
great
deal
of
consensus
in
Parliament
and
across
the
parties.
I
think
the
definition
is
clear,
but
I
think
how
its
expressed
by
way
of
actions
is
really
helpful
when
I
think
that's
well.
The
economic
action
plan
comes
in
I.
Think
that's
where
the
detail
points
I
think
what
does
a
fieldwork
agenda
look
like?
C
How
do
we
spread
the
wealth
of
in
our
country?
How
do
we
a
tackle
well-being
and
our
outcomes
for
because
I
think
all
of
that
is
covered
in
more
detail
through
the
action?
So
maybe
the
point
of
consensus
says:
if
we
can
show
further
actions
I
help
us
achieve
the
purpose,
then
that
would
be
helpful
for
all.
A
E
You
very
much
coming
secretary
Prestwick
Airport
was
mentioned,
the
other
half
to
become
fully
of
courses
and
you're
sure
MHPAEA
I
think
it's
unthinkable.
What
could
have
harm
to
the
waiter
your
economy
had
that
intervention
not
taking
place
I
thought
that
had
broad
support
within
the
Parliament.
It
certainly
does
have
from
a
local
member
Leo
Jones
for
his
championed
for
many
years,
and
still
still
does
that.
But
my
brief
question
tea
was
on
on
the
strategic
direction.
I
should
have
raised
by
:
bTW.
E
Do
you
do
you
think
that
the
the
emergence
of
the
growth
tools
have
been
in
a
sense
that
can
a
catalyst
for
a
new
original
kind
of
economic
partnership
to
to
emerge
I,
don't
think
those
detriment
to
the
formal
growth
sectors
that
we
previously
focused
on
the
Scottish,
Enterprise
and
I'm,
happy
and
elated
that
that's
new
change
is
taking
place.
So
do
you
think
they
will
say
the
growth
deals
of
clearly
part
and
and
rethinking
that,
and
and
is
it
does
that
Lincoln
with
you
overall
economic
strategy
for
us
for
Scotland
gross.
C
Deals
have
been
quite
an
attractive,
a
process
where
each
one
has
developed
over
and
above
a
the
last
one
can
change
the
shape.
The
first
big
one
first,
one
indeed
was
with
Glasgow
that
failed
quite
a
lot
of
it
infrastructure
and
in
latterly
fail
about
more
about
inclusive
growth,
Aden
bras
and
the
low-teens
there's
been
more
about
yeah
yeah,
Economic,
Opportunity
and
data,
and
and
some
of
some
of
that
and
in
the
ocean
growth
deal
of
courses
are
made
sure
of
infrastructure.
Another
aim
job
creating
opportunity
as
well.
C
So
we
are
all
now
quite
different
that
the
way
they've
been
negotiated
is
between
the
local
authority
and
Scottish
government.
Uk
government
financing
packages
vary
from
one
to
the
next,
but
what
is
helped
us
to
do
is
bring
together
regional
partners
to
discuss
what
may
what
investments
make
the
rate
for
that
region.
So
it's
been
helpful
in
that
regard.
C
Of
course,
that
has
been
financial
leverages
well
as
a
consequence
and
there's
been
improved
relations
with
a
both
academia
and
the
business
community,
pretty
bit
better
yeah
I
think
that's
possible
too,
in
terms
of
a
more
a
systematic
approach,
but
essentially
we
can
address
that
through
I.
Think
a
regional
economic
partnerships-
and
we
want
growth,
deals
of
course
to
cover
the
whole
country
as
well,
but
there's
now
a
very
sizable
chunk
of
money.
C
That'll
feed
through
the
growth
deals
to
help
us
stimulate
the
economy
and
the
partnerships
are
undoubtedly
stronger
as
well
as
oh
and
that's
between
local
authorities,
as
well
as
with
government,
and
it
is
absolutely
part
of
the
economic
strategy,
particularly
around
some
of
the
themes
on
innovation,
a
and
a
infrastructure
for
the
avoidance
of
doubt.
It
michael
matheson
leads
on
growth.
The
ocean.
A
Cabinet
secretary,
just
just
very
brief
point:
last
year,
the
committee
noted
the
enterprise
agencies
sat
and
mark
their
own
homework.
I
think
was
our
words
and
I
don't
want
to
misquote
you
but
I.
Think
in
your
response
on
that,
you
said
that
the
strategic
boards
analytical
unit
was
developing
a
measurement
framework
and
I
think
evidence.
The
committee
since
then
has
suggested
that
not
a
lot
of
progress
has
been
made
on
that.
Are
you
able
to
give
us
an
update
on
where
we're
at
with
that
I
think.
C
There
has
been
a
good
progress.
I
can
return
to
some
of
the
the
indicators,
but
a
more
detailed
assessment
of
performance
will
be
provided
to
the
board
as
a
strategic
board
in
the
annual
report,
which
is
due
in
a
January
so
January
next
year
and
we'll
have
the
detailed
report
I
think
there
I
believe
there
has
been
progress
on
those
indicators.
This
is
a
rather
than
just
allow
the
enterprise
agencies
to
do
it
in
for
themselves.
C
In
our
cover
indicators,
such
as
Spain
done,
research
and
development
as
a
percentage
of
GDP
value
of
international
exports,
a
workplace
learning
in
the
last
three
months
percent
of
establishments
with
skills
shortage
vacancies,
a
gender
pay
gap,
employees
earning
less
than
a
living
wage,
carbon
footprint,
school
leavers,
qualifications
and
high
growth
business
as
a
percentage
of
all
enterprises.
So
again,
it's
my
understanding.
The
framework
was
approved
by
the
strategic
board
in
March,
and
the
board
has
received
quarterly
updates
of
performance
against
those
high-level
indicators
and
frameworks.
A
bit
further
information
should
be
forthcoming.
Dude
Jackie.
C
I
Much
convener
the
Cabinet
sanctuary
has
also
mentioned
our
previous
business
support
inquiry,
but
I
wonder
whether
I
could
just
press
him
for
a
bit
of
detail,
particularly
in
relation
to
business
gateway
as
part
of
that
wider
Enterprise
Support
System.
Can
he
tell
us
what
progresses
has
been
made
and
when
he
expects
that
to
happen,
and
equally
he
mentioned
the
single
portal
single
entry
point
for
enterprise
support
again.
Can
you
give
us
some
detail
about
when
he
expects
this
to
happen?
It.
C
Can
be
no,
it's
I
think
it's
a
good
point,
because
I
think
the
two
are
actually
connected
because
I
looked
at
it
closely
at
the
committee's
report
on
business
gateway
and
I've
engaged
West
local
government
recognizing
that
business
gate
we're
resting
with
local
government
a
moment
whatever
I
do
I
should
do
in
partnership.
So
I've
met
with
the
economy.
Spokesperson,
councillor
heddle
I've
leased
the
meetings
I've
had
with
the
resources
spokesperson
as
well.
Gil
McGreggor
there
has
been
an
exchange
of
communication.
I
understand
cause
la
leaders
are
considering
a
the
approach
around
business
gateway.
C
What
I
feel
is
the
best
way
forward,
because
I
think
part
of
the
critique
from
the
committee
is
it
felt
about
party
across
the
country
and
it
could
be
better
connected
with
the
rest
of
the
enterprise.
A
family's
operations
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
mirror
in
that
and
I
think
the
best
way
to
address
is
they
in
connect
with
the
work
around
the
single
portal,
which
was
a
second
part
of
Jackie
Bailey's
question,
so
bringing
together
the
complexity
of
financial
products
and
various
forms
of
support
for
businesses.
C
My
aspiration
is
to
make
it
as
easy
as
possible
for
businesses
no
matter
the
scale.
Smaller
large
startup
set
up
scale
up
to
to
meet
one
point
of
entry,
and
then
the
system
works
to
give
back
the
appropriate
support
for
that
organization
and
that
company
is
they
no
matter
the
scale?
So
that's
my
ambition,
I!
Don't
that
the
single
portal,
and
because
of
the
complexity
out
there
right
across
scales,
development,
Scotland,
Enterprise,
a
agencies,
if
even
universities,
through
interface,
where
they
actually
connect
academic
and
innovation
opportunities
with
businesses.
C
C
So
the
engagement
with
business
gateway
has
been
in
positive
so
far,
but
because
of
the
nature
of
that
local
government
function
and
trying
to
do
in
partnership
with
them
rather
than
you
know,
instruct
that
I'm
sure
aim
be
some
sympathy
for,
but
it
wouldn't
be
a
partnership
approach.
So
I
would
certainly
update
the
kamati
F.
They
are
not
in
coming
and
worthless.
To
this
national
project
would.
I
Certainly
be
very
welcome
from
the
cabinet
secretary
can
I
turn
now
to
the
Scottish
European
growth
Co
investment
program-
that
was
part
of
the
five
hundred
millions
Aatish
growth
scheme,
announced
to
considerable
fanfare
by
the
First
Minister
and
indeed
welcomed
across
the
chamber,
but
I
think
the
cabinet
secretary
would
agree
with
me.
They've
been
very
disappointing
numbers
accessing
funding
from
the
200
million
budget.
That
is
the
co-investment
program.
In
the
first
year
there
was
one
project.
I
I
The
cabinet
secretary
tell
us
what
is
the
case
now.
Our
demand
stimulation
activities
in
place
and
bearing
fruit
and
he'll
appreciate
our
concern,
because
these
self-same
Enterprise
agencies
are
the
one
that
are
going
to
stimulate
demand
for
the
proposed
Scottish
national
investment
bank.
If
they
can't
do
it
for
this,
how
can
we
be
confident
that
they'll
do
it
for
the
new
bank
so.
C
Our
uncertainty
and
therefore
for
the
government
to
invest,
has
been
more
difficult
where
some
of
the
investment
has
been
drying
up
because
of
breaks.
We
have
tried
to
stimulate
demand.
The
enterprise
agency
has
tried
to
same
post
companies
towards
the
Scottish
growth
scheme
and
him
I.
Would
love
like
to
have
seen
more
come
through
this,
but
it
is
also
true
to
see
that
financial
support
has
come
from
other
government
strands
to
ensure
that
have
been
supporting
companies
over
the
last
few
years.
That.
I
I
B
I
C
It's
one
of
many:
if
I
could
go
back
to
the
inception
of
the
growth
scheme
itself,
it
it
was
considered.
In
its
early
days
there
was
actually
going
to
be
contingent
liabilities.
It
was
going
to
be
guarantees
if
our
members
remember
correctly,
and
that
was
going
to
be
a
very
useful
way
of
getting
leverage
and
to
support
a
businesses,
and
that
was
partly
advice
through
the
understanding
from
companies
as
to
what
might
have
been
helpful
and
from
the
banks
and
where
there
might
have
been
a
gap
and
funding
available.
C
So
considering
that
it
was
first
meant
to
be
guarantees
so
that
would've
been
contingent
liabilities
that
would
have
only
have
crystallized
I
suppose
if
that
call
upon
or
of
resource
actually
happened,
and
then,
of
course,
it
was
developed
to
have
that
umbrella
of
different
funds
and
investments,
the
co
investment
fund,
and
so
it
has,
you
know,
tried
to
adapt
over
time,
but
but
Jackie
Bailey's
right
again.
This
is
demand
late
and
does
require
co-investment
and
part
for
some
of
these
funds
enough.
C
You
know,
because
of
the
nature
of
the
economy
or
investment
possession
at
the
moment,
then
it
hasn't
achieved
about
figured.
But
overall,
the
support
to
bears
has
still
been
delivered
and,
as
I
see,
knowing
that
there
was
a
few
in
the
early
days,
a
time
contingent
liabilities
and
the
government
using
the
strength
of
its
balance
sheet
to
support
business.
We've
actually
done
that
a
because
she
then
turned
to
the
question
at
Dean.
Lockhardt
asked
me
about
which
was
the
writing
down
of
investments,
which
was
equity.
C
C
We
have
demand
as
we
are,
investment
could
be
and
again
these
are
just
different
tools
in
the
Box
to
try
and
support
and
stimulate
the
economy,
but
it
was
first
and
as
each
of
these
would
be
contingent
liabilities
we
changed
and
investment
and
Co
investment
funds,
and
the
figures
speak
for
themselves
that
there
has
been
some
leverage,
but
not
as
much
as
we
would
have
hoped
through
this
particular
scheme.
But
still
in
plaintiff
support
elsewhere
and
different
financial
products
that
we
have.
I
G
Kevin
sexy
I
know
you
have
a
great
grasp
of
your
limits.
I
want
to
ask
you
a
question
about
Highlands
and
Islands,
Enterprise
and
I
know.
This
agency
falls
within
the
remit
of
the
cabinet
secretary
for
rural
economy,
Fergus
Union,
but
that
is
and
I
believe
that
irons
nails
have
done
have
done
wonders
for
the
Highlands
since
I've
been
for
set
up,
but
there
are,
however,
a
number
of
financial
restoran
you'll
report
regard
to
space
hops
along
VAT
liability
can
go
on
furniture
empire
of
the
seal
of
CF
HS
center
of
health
and
science.
C
I
really
appreciate
that
wretchedly
all
started
with
a
compliment
and
then
complimenting
me
on
my
grasp
of
my
wound.
Remap.
It
would
be
wrong
for
me
to
over
reach
and
to
the
Rema
of
other
cabinet
secretaries
as
finance
secretary
I
am
a
generally
satisfied
that
other
cabinet
secretaries
are
looking
at
those
issues,
and
you
know
my
weirdness
of
Halen's
nylons
to
place.
We'd
expect
them
to
operate
within
value
for
money
due
diligence.
C
A
Scottish
public
sector
is
scots-irish
public
finance
manual
and
a
other
commercial
advice,
as
they
would
receive
it
for
any
investment
they
make
and
I
am
satisfied
that
they
would
do
that
as
to
the
detail
of
any
project,
then
I
would
suggest
you
have
fair
pursue
in
here
and
girl
hemming.
The
way
that
you
girl
me.
G
A
K
B
K
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
We
now
come
to
item
three
on
our
agenda,
which
is
leaving
the
European
Union
without
a
deal
again.
We're
joined
by
Derrick
McKey,
combat
secretary
for
finance,
economy
and
fair
work
and
with
them
Kevin
Quinlan,
director
for
international
trade
and
investment
and
Gary
Gillespie,
chief
economist,
so
welcome
to
the
two
of
you:
I
understand:
cabinet
sector.
You
have
an
opening
statement
so
I'll
hand
over
to
you
at
this
stage.
Thank.
C
C
The
recent
gains
in
the
labor
market,
which
could
see
unemployment
rising
by
up
to
100,000,
of
course,
there's
a
responsible
government.
Although
we
do
not
want
to
leave
the
EU
and
we
have
to
prepare
for
an
audio
break
set.
That
is
what
we
can
plan
for.
It
will
also
be
many
unknown
unknowns
for
flexo.
C
So
we
have
planned
a
range
of
interventions
and
options
that
we
can
deploy
in
the
event
of
an
audio
break
set,
and
we
need
to
be
agile
in
determining
which
to
deploy
and
when
based
on
an
assessment
of
the
situation,
as
it
unfolds
so
I'm
clear
that
the
funding
for
these
intervention
should
have
come
from
the
UK
government.
The
Scottish
budget
has
been
agreed
by
Parliament
and
as
fully
committed.
C
If
resource
is
not
forthcoming
by
the
UK
government,
we
will
be
faced
with
the
choice
to
either
cut
funding
for
public
services
or
not
deploy
contingency
plans
and
the
way
that
we
would
want
it.
We've
organised
a
response
to
breaks
in
three
phases:
resilience,
recovery
and
structuring
on
resilience
were
engaging
with
business
organizations
across
Scotland
and
seeking
to
address
that
concerns
as
best
we
can.
This
includes
providing
bespoke
information
for
how
businesses
can
prepare
for
breaks
and
supporting
access
to
finance
for
businesses
of
all
sizes.
C
We're
also
doing
this
primarily
through
the
prepare
for
breaks
website,
which
has
now
had
over
a
hundred
thousand
site
visits
for
six
thousand
company
assessments
completed.
As
recently
as
last
week,
I
met
with
the
chief
executive
so
that
enterprise
and
scales
agencies
to
take
stock
of
our
breaks
at
response
and
to
ensure
that
we
are
aligned
and
our
approach
moving
forward.
C
Within
all
of
this,
we
have
three
lines
of
Defence
we're
working
closely
with
the
banks,
encouraging
them
to
make
funding
available
and
signposting
businesses
to
go
to
them
in
the
first
place
and
I'm
convening
a
meeting
of
the
banking
economy
forum
later
today,
and
I'll
continue
to
impress
upon
them
the
important
role
they
have
in
stepping
up
to
the
plate
and
helping
Scottish
business
post
break.
Sir.
C
The
second
line
is
to
look
to
the
UK
government
to
step
up
and
provide
support
to
businesses
suffering
as
a
result
of
brexit,
primarily
through
the
British
business
bank,
and
finally,
businesses
will
be
able
to
access
the
existing
Scottish
government
and
agency
support
and
we've
planned
a
range
of
interventions
and
options
that
we
can
deploy
in
the
event
of
an
audio
break.
So
we
need
to
be
agile
in
determining
which
to
deploy
based
a
and
based
on
an
assessment
of
the
situation
as
it
unfolds
in
terms
of
recovery.
C
Finally,
the
third
phase
of
our
approach
is
longer-term.
Restructuring
that
means
looking
further
ahead
to
try
and
understand
what
the
economy
may
look
like
in
the
future
and
prepare
for
that.
This
is
obviously
hard
to
do
in
the
uncertain
political
and
economic
environment
we
find
ourselves
in,
but
were
ready
and
prepared
to
adjust
our
approach
to
whatever
may
come.
Thank.
J
You
secretary,
my
overwhelming
impression,
is
that
across
the
whole
of
the
United
Kingdom
businesses,
financial
institutions,
professional
bodies,
have
been
communicating
their
concerns
to
the
UK
government
in
respect
to
a
new
deal.
Brexit.
Is
that
any
indication
that
the
government
is
actually
listening
to
these
concerns
and
addressing
them
in
terms.
C
Of
their
high-level
political
principle,
if
they
were
listening
to
business,
we
just
would
know
deliver
a
No
Deal
breaks,
because
it's
economically
catastrophic,
so
businesses
are
saying
that
it
would
be
catastrophic.
It'll
cause
business
failure,
d'epinay
exports,
soaring
unemployment,
I
undo
the
gains
we've
made
in
the
economy
and
be
incredibly
damaging
as
a
consequence
of
all
of
that,
any
form
of
breaks
that
will
damage
the
economy.
It
has
a
range
of
impacts,
I
think
a
well
understood
by
the
committee,
but
even
now,
a
political
level.
C
The
response
could
be
such
you
in
keeping
with
what
Westminster
has
actually
approved
and
trying
to
stop
a
new
deal
breaks.
If
the
government
was
lessening
they
would
have,
they
would
not
have
inaudible
brakes.
Of
course,
we
have,
as
a
government
pursued
an
agenda
of
trying
to
stay
within
the
European
Union.
The
next
best
thing
would
be
to
have
a
compromise
where
we
stay
within
a
single
market
and
the
customs
union
and
of
course,
Scotland
has
very
particular
needs
within
that
as
well.
C
Essentially
leaked
from
UK
government
to
know
what
of
prepare
preparations
really
look
like
and
therefore
appears.
The
UK
government
isn't
fully
listening
to
what
business
is
seen
around
the
demands
and
pressures
that
they
all
face
as
a
consequence
of
breaks
and,
of
course,
our
preparations
underway,
a
UK
under
Scottish
level
we're
trying
to
engage
with
UK
government
as
to
what
can
be
done
to
mitigate
the
impact
of
breaks.
But
let
me
see
here
at
committee.
C
J
To
take
another
angle
on
this,
the
Bank
of
England
obviously
is
a
very
respected
institution,
and
the
estimates
that
it
makes
on
an
analysis
of
EU
withdraw
under,
and
there
are
no
deal,
indicates
that
UK
GDP
GDP
could
reduce
by
up
to
ten
and
a
half
percent
by
2023
and
there's
various
other
scenarios
within
increasing
them.
You
came
unemployment,
the
7.5
percent,
increased
inflation
is
six
and
a
half
percent
is
it?
Is
it
at
all
possible
to
mitigate
against
this
sort
of
scenario?
I.
C
Think
I've
just
tried
to
make
that
point
that
there
is
only
so
much
Scottish
government
a
can
do
if
there
is
soaring
unemployment.
Clearly,
there
will
be
a
sense
in
which
we
are
overwhelmed
with
even
what
the
scales
agency
and
colleges
and
universities
and
local
authorities
and
other
stakeholders
can
do
just
in
terms
of
employment
in
terms
of
the
economic
impact
with
that
business
failure
and
imports
and
exports
and
exchange
they
just
they.
C
No,
it's
not
possible
to
fully
mitigate
the
impact
of
an
audio
break
set
because
it
will
be
so
harmful
to
our
economy
and
therefore
a
to
communities
and
as
a
great
deal
of
economic
consensus
that
that
will
be
the
case.
I
and
even
a
Chancellor
of
the
Exchequer
struggled
to
quantify
the
negative
impact
on
the
UK's
economy
and
there's
no
positive
impact
of
a
No.
Deal
breaks
is
only
a
negative
impact
and
it
will
be
catastrophic
not
only
so
much.
L
So
the
bank
provides
their
forecasts
for
No
Deal
and
light
of
the
increase
mitigation
that
the
UK
government
was
putting
in
place,
but,
as
you've
just
said,
that
the
impacts
they're
still
forecasting
for
GDP
and
and
unemployment
or
negative
with
economy
contracted
by
up
to
five
and
a
half
percent
and
unemployment
rising,
I
think
I'm
more
interesting
one
is,
there
will
be
our
forecast
from
July
based
on
their
fiscal
rest
report,
which
looked
at
a
more
benign
New,
Deal
scenario
where
there
would
be
many
deals
for
a
number
of
sectors
and
their
projection
suggested.
They.
L
Even
in
that
scenario,
you
would
see
growth
in
the
UK
economy,
contraction,
so
2025
at
1.4
percent,
and
actually
the
public
finances
been
had
been
hurt
by
up
to
20
billion.
The
key
the
key
point
around
the
different
model
and
in
forecasts
then
assure
what
will
be
published
for
the
government.
Looked
at
the
impact
of
breaks
on
the
economy
go
now
to
2030,
and
essentially
that's
based
on
a
transition
sectors
are
Justin
and
essentially
by
20
there
they're
calling
me,
as
a
percentage
smaller
than
it
would
have
been
under
the
under
the
status
quo.
L
What
you
have
we
know
deal
is
that
disorderly,
in
fact,
is
the
immediate
change
and
that's
what
front
Lords
the
risks
and
that
this
dislocation
of
the
economy
immediately
through
both
supply-side
constraints,
whether
it's
transport,
regulatory,
whether
it's
businesses
being
propelled
or
through
the
demand
side?
Well,
there's
a
collapse
in
confidence.
So
that's
really
what
all
of
the
forecasters
are
really
worried
about
that
immediate
parts
and
the
known
unknowns,
I,
rent
house
out
clear.
A
Coming
at
this
point
and
move
from
these
forecasts,
which
vary
from
time
to
time
and
depending
on
who's,
giving
them
to
the
specifics
of
what
the
Scottish
government
is
doing
and
has
done
to
assist
Scottish
businesses
with
the
specific
consequences
of
an
Odile
brexit,
in
terms
of
which
we
would
be
on
within
the
system
of
the
the
WTO
World
Trade
Organization
rules.
So
to
sum
those
rules
might
be
advantageous
to
others
disadvantages.
So
what
specifically,
is
the
Scottish
Government
on
in
terms
of
preparation
for
Scottish
companies?
For
that
convene.
C
Are
we
so
we've
been
engaging
with
the
best
most
representative
organisations
convening
with
the
banking
and
economy
forum,
because,
of
course,
most
companies
will
engage
with
the
bank
in
terms
of
a
any
pressures
that
we
face?
We've
been
building
up
that
intelligence.
We've
been
responding
to
requests
for
support
through
the
prepare
for
breaks,
a
website
where
we
can
do
the
diagnostics
and
advise
companies
and
anything
they
may
be
able
to
do
to
prepare
for
breaks
and
I
gave
the
figures.
My
opening
remarks
in
terms
of
that
website.
It's
not
just
the
website.
C
It's
actually
a
call
st.
on
the
whole
team
that
brings
together
the
different
enterprise
agencies
together,
as
I,
say,
to
try
and
come
up
with
a
bespoke
package
of
support
for
individual
companies
based
in
clay
bank
call
centre,
but
it
is
largely
a
online.
So
the
call
center
works
together
to
bring
together
different
parts
of
government
together,
portend
virtual
companies.
C
You
see,
there's
a
diagnostic
tool
for
companies,
those
financial
support
available
to
businesses
to
prepare
for
breaks
and
any
Enterprise
agencies
have
been
engaging
with
businesses
and
eventually
as
well,
but
it's
fair
to
say,
because
it's
unknown.
What
the
political
outcome
is
going
to
be,
companies
have
been
finding
it
difficult
to
fully
prepare
larger
companies
have
organized
their
affairs,
and
particularly
financial
services
have
reorganized
their
affairs
in
such
a
fashion
that,
if
you'll
well,
she
don't
like
her.
They
might
feel
better
prepared
than
many
SMEs.
C
So
there's
an
issue
about
small
medium
sized
enterprises,
many
of
whom
don't
have
a
plan
for
breaks.
But
that's
why
we've
tried
to
promote
the
prepare
for
breaks
at
campaign.
The
tools
are
available,
the
advice
to
support
the
expertise
and
then
there's
a
specific
grants,
a
available
in
terms
of
our
own
preparations
for
31st
of
October.
C
If
we
are
in
the
territory
of
an
audio
breaks,
as
a
say,
we
have
three
phases:
there
is
a
recovery,
every
xoans
and
then
ultimately,
the
restructuring
of
the
economy,
because
some
sectors
will
have
less
growth
or
more
impact
as
a
consequence
of
breaks
than
others
immediately
on
recovery,
we
will
essentially
have
a
kind
of
triage
arrangement
where
triage.
Where
we
have
the
support,
we
would
refer
people
signpost
them
to
the
banks,
but
we'll
also
have
government
financial
products
that
can
assess
with
businesses.
C
C
Definitely
so
we'll
have
to
tell
the
approach
based
on
the
intelligence
that
we
have
at
that
point
in
time,
and
we
also
have
an
economic
dashboard
that
helps
us
understand
what's
going
on
in
the
economy
and
therefore,
where
we
should
target
our
efforts,
this
base,
we
can
in
terms
of
the
rural
economy,
and
of
course,
agriculture
will
be.
Have
this
one
very
specific
challenges
here,
I'm
sure
Ferguson
could
tell
you
more
about
the
rural
economy
and
the
issues
in
relation
to
support
around
farming,
but
a
headline
within
farming.
C
It
would
be
to
to
point
out
that
we've
advanced
the
loin
scheme
so
that
there's
a
fiscal
injection
by
way
of
loan
payments
to
the
farming
community
as
well.
That's
just
a
taste
of
some
of
the
preparations
that
we've
been
making,
as
well
as
engaging
with
UK
government
around
areas
that
are
both
preserved
and
that
will
have
an
impact
on
a
devolved
functions
as
well,
not
least
on
transport
logistics.
C
A
You
know
just
wondering
your
officials
may
be
able
to
help
on
this,
but
have
analyses
been
done
of
which
companies,
as
you
say,
some
will
be
affected
more
than
others.
It's
dependent
of
us
also
depend
on
economic
conditions,
but
have
they
done
analyses
that
could
be
shared
with
the
committee,
for
example,
absolutely.
L
To
say
we,
the
government
published
New
Deal
breaks
analysis
in
February
appear
that
the
culture
tourism
bureau
of
External
Affairs
acquitted,
committed
marks
and
gave
evidence
on
the
impacts,
and
we
took
just
to
give
you
an
example
of
the
sector's.
We
took
Bank
of
England
work
around
the
sector's
most
likely
to
be
impacted
by
a
new
deal
that
was
based
on
sectors
that
would
either
dependent
on
EU,
labor
borders,
issues,
regulation
or
transport
logistics
and
the
sectors
with
the
potential
impact
in
Scotland.
L
A
cultural,
false
confession
came
the
course
food
and
drink
and
construction,
so
that
was
the
Dickey
legs,
but
we
we
can
provide
that
to
the
committee
also
and
can
I
just
make
a
point
around
the
Sofia
fabrics
at
website
when
I
was
here
in
marks,
this
site
had
been
launched
about
a
month
of
the
time
and
we
were
seen
a
spike
in
activity.
At
that
time
there
was
something
like
thirty.
E
Cabinet
secretary,
do
you
think
their
prime
minister
is
seriously
trying
to
get
a
deal
to
avoid
I
know?
Do
you
exit
the
latest
news
is
small
and
I,
don't
know
if
you
had
a
chance
to
look
at
it
as
to
suggested
there
could
be
some
kind
of
customs
buffer
zones
in
the
north
and
south
of
a
violent
to
overcome
the
backstop,
and
it's
immediately
been
a
rejected
by
the
Irish
government.
So
what's
your
view
Anderson,
do
you
think
there
is
no
serious
attempt
to
try
to
get
a
deal
to
avoid
this
situation?
Well,.
C
Convene
I,
don't
believe,
there's
a
serious
effort
by
the
UK
government
led
by
Boris
Johnston
to
to
get
a
deal
life
via
the
Boris
Johnson
is
about
EU
X
at
all
course,
and
the
collateral
damage
will
be
the
economy
in
the
communities
of
the
whole
of
the
UK
and,
as
I
understand
that
this
morning,
knowing
papers,
I
think
they're
called
worth
from
the
UK
government.
The
current
proposition
to
address
the
the
issue
in
Northern
Ireland
has
already
been
rejected
out
of
hand.
A
G
Lisle
cabinet
sector
UK
government's
own
analysis
shows
that
how
devastating
a
No
Deal
scenario
would
be
for
a
quarter
vignette
and
still
don't
think
we
should
drill
a
disruption
to
cross
channel
trade
could
lead
to
delays
in
UK
food
supply,
fifty
percent
of
which
comes
from
the
EU.
Fifty
percent
do
you
care
is
an
island.
It
has
to
import
certain
foods
and
products.
G
So
what's
your
view
in
the
gap
to
the
possible
press
has
been
asked
regarding
availability
of
fresh
food,
reduce
the
noise
in
places
which
could
one
durable
clips,
petrol
and
prod
tariffs,
which
could
elevate
to
lead
to
thousands
of
jobs,
losses
to
substance
to
fuel
supplies,
but
the
most
important
medical
supplies
being
vulnerable
to
severe
extended
delays.
Three-Quarters
of
UK
medicine
enters
this
country
through
main
channel
crossings,
and
many
of
my
constituents
are
on
these
drugs
that
have
been
imported
numb
concerned
about
it.
G
But
yesterday
I
was
talking
to
a
chap
who
and
ports
teas
from
Island
teas
and
butter,
pleasantly
cost
twelve
hundred
pounds
a
ton
if
the
exit
goes
ahead,
that
will
rise
with
tariffs
to
2600
pounds
at
odd,
nearly
more
than
double.
What's
your
view
and
now
be
really
having
a
relationship
with
the
UK
government
and
discussing
he
prepared
to
supply
and
make
sure
chain
the
new
chain
disruptions,
because
my
concern
as
you're
walking
a
shorts
after
31st
October
they'll
be
empty
shelves.
C
In
viña,
we
of
course
are
concerned
about
the
impact
for
noodle
breaks.
It's
the
reasons
above
ever
known
on
the
economy,
but,
of
course,
impacts
are
much
wider
than
even
when
there's
resolved
a
reserved
area
such
as
borders
and
tariffs.
They
are.
The
issues,
are
gonna
manifest
themselves
in
devolved
areas
like
transport,
a
and
medicines.
As
the
example
that's
been
given
by
a
let
shall
lie,
oh
and
impact
on
the
economy
that
shocked
as
I
can
say,
and
then,
as
a
medium
and
longer-term
issues
as
well
in
terms
of
relationship
with
UK
government.
C
C
No
I
think
where
we're
at
getting
a
bit
more
involved
now
and
some
of
the
the
UK
and
for
structure
in
terms
of
preparation,
some
sharing
of
information,
but
it
does
depend
on
which
UK
Department
my
whole
department
that
you're
dealing
with.
But
the
member
expresses
I
think
a
very
legitimate
concern
around
transport
and
customs
in
that
regard,
because
if
the
UK
government's
transport
and
a
customs
and
port
strategy
isn't
right,
it
will
impact
on
supplies
across
the
UK
and
to
Scotland.
C
And
that
is
a
concern
and
that's
why
we're
working
intensively
to
try
and
prepare
for
that.
But
we
will
be
dependent
on
the
UK
government.
Take
medicines,
for
example,
with
us
category
1
supplies
having
the
necessary
the
routing
and
written
arrangements
and
place
to
ensure
that
as
well
as
stockpiling,
but
as
an
adequate
supply
of
those
medical
supplies
and
at
the
moment,
I
feel
as
if
we
are
all
relying
upon
the
UK
government
having
plans
for
plans
to
deliver.
And,
of
course
we
are
posing
the
question.
C
Can
you
guarantee
you
know,
100
percent
of
supplies,
a
well
B
and
place
notes
for
the
UK
government
to
answer?
How
sure
they
are
they
are
advising
us
that
they
have
plans
to
have
plans,
but
I'm
concerned
convener
about
the
timescales
to
have
those
plans
in
place
to
ensure
that
take
just
medicines
that
we,
the
the
the
pharmaceutical
companies
and
distributors
and
suppliers
well,
nor
those
plans
in
time
and
place
to
make
sure
that
proper
distribution
across
the
country.
C
So,
of
course
it's
an
immense
concern
that
that
cliff
edge
that
New
Deal
breaks
a
day
will
be
delivered
in
a
fashion
that
caused
you
so
much
disruption
in
terms
of
the
economy.
Maybe
Kevin
Quentin
will
say
about
more
on
tariffs
as
a
effect
Scottish
business
and
trade
as
well,
because
that's
very
particular
question,
of
course,
and
I
mean
those
sectors
that
will
be
impacted
in
particularly
an
agriculture
that
the
committee
may
well
wish
to
be
sited
on.
M
So
on
Terra,
specifically
so
there's
obviously
areas
within
this
which
are
within
our
control,
those
areas
which,
which
are
not
that
the
setting
of
tariffs,
obviously
is
not.
We
have
engaged
in
a
very
concerted
manner
with
ukg
around
this
I
guess:
there's
a
couple
of
issues:
one
is
the
shock
value
tariffs
being
introduced
overnight
and
therefore
having
a
very
immediate
effect
without
private
sector
suppliers
having
an
ability
to
be
able
to
adjust.
I
think
some
of
the
tariffs
that
we're
looking
at
are
also
quite
complicated.
I've
got
pages
of
schedules
here
here
in
the
notes.
M
In
addition
to
that,
I
think
there
are
some
areas
which
we
are
able
to
do
something
about.
So
one
is
the
areas
of
export
health
certificates
in
relation
to
the
exports
of
again
seafood
products
from
the
West
Coast,
we
have
come
up
with
a
Scottish
solution
to
that
to
ensure
that
that
some
of
the
regulatory
barriers
are
not
impeding
but
I.
Think
overall
I
think
it
is
you
know
it
is-
will
have
a
very
significant
impact.
M
We
have
a
situation
where
the
most
important
point
is
that
Europe,
in
the
absence
of
a
trade
deal,
won't
change
its
tar.
So
we
will
face
the
same
level
that
are
that
we
have
now
the
tariffs
that
were
announced
in
April
by
UK
G
mean
that
we
will
have
very
drastic
liberalisation,
I
think
between
87
and
95
percent
of
all
of
our
imports
will
be
subjected
to
a
complete
sort.
Our
free
situation,
the
probably
notable
exceptions,
are
in
relation
to
sheep.
M
G
One
night
exporting
to
Europe
we're
gonna
pay
between
an
between
two
and
12
percent,
more
yeah
and
coming
in.
Basically,
we
as
the
public
are
going
to
pay
more
for
stuff
coming
in
from
from
Europe
or
or
basically
from
elsewhere.
So
that's
a
concern.
I've
got
but
also
I
have
one
more
concerned:
cabinet
sector,
EU
nationals
and
the
long
debate
over
you
could
remain.
You
can
stay,
you
can
go,
you
can
pay,
you
don't
need
to
pay,
but
still
people
are
know.
I
see
people
drifting
away
to
go
home
back
to
that
country.
G
Now,
I
want
them
to
stay.
Our
welcome
people
to
come
score
on
that
welcome
people.
A
loving
Scotland,
are
welcome
people
to
say
my
mother-in-law
was
Dutch.
My
father-in-law
was
what
the
inning
as
I
said
last
week,
the
chamber,
if
they
hadn't
come
here,
I
wouldn't
have
met
my
wife
I.
Would
they
had
my
kids?
I
would
never
had
my
garden
cats
and
it
angers
me
that
angers
me
that
we
have
a
situation
where,
basically
with
telling
people
to
go
home,
sorry
there
woman's
here
and
I
want
them
to
stay.
C
C
Stare
in
Scotland
people
are
welcome.
I
will
try
to
show
pro
internationalist
and
pro-european
credentials,
and
we've
been
working
with
as
the
business
community
to
project
that
message
that
we
want
people
to
stay.
The
UK
clearly
has
particular
bureaucratic
administrative
arrangements
in
terms
of
sales
status
that
requires
people
to
register,
essentially
what
we
have
been
running
campaigns
to
stay
in
Scotland,
and
we
welcome
people
from
the
rest
of
the
UK
as
well,
of
course,
to
Scotland
and
will
continue
to
run
those
campaigns
to
make
the
point
that
people
are
welcome
to
stay.
C
C
It
might
be
that
more
hostile
environment
the
UK
government
has
created,
but
you
know
I
think
most
people
get
that
Scotland's
deferent
dohsa,
there's
a
point
of
deference
here
that
the
attitudes
in
Scotland
now
that
we
want
a
emigrants
to
stay
in
a
future
population
growth
can
only
come
from
as
projected
only
to
come
from
and
what
migration
so
for
economic
reasons,
social
reasons.
Hey,
then
we
want
to
encourage
people
to
stay
and
that's
why
we've
been
running
those
campaigns
and
trying
to
support
businesses
and
make
it
as
easy
as
possible
for
people
to
stay.
C
C
A
K
You
I
wanted
to
follow
up
with
the
cabinet
sector
in
terms
of
what
the
Scottish
government
is
doing
for
business.
Can
you
tell
me
how
much
additional
funding
has
specifically
been
allocated
to
the
enterprise
agencies
to
prepare
for
breaks
it
just
in
terms
of
the
a
pounds
number
in
terms
of
additional
funding?
Well,.
C
Like
many
other
parts
of
the
public
sector,
we're
expecting
them
to
recalibrate
and
ensure
that
energies
are
directed
towards
their
exit
challenge.
Promoting
Scotland
internationally
was
1.4
million
that
prepare
for
breaks
at
campaign
was
1.1
million.
The
advice
service
in
community
based
support
for
you
citizens
was
point
five,
eight
million.
C
K
C
C
Oh,
that's.
The
question
you
asked
me
was
a
desperate
question.
The
question
you
asked
me
was
how
much
was
specifically
governed
to
squash
enterprise.
The
question
as
to
the
totality
of
support
to
the
business
community
from
as
a
consequence
of
brexit
will
be
greater
than
that,
but
you
know
jack.
No
thinking
feeling
she
would
have
expected
me
to
have
had
that
forget
to
hand
which.
C
Idea
of
what
the
figure
is
a
I
would
rather
check
the
detail
and
come
back
to
committee
than
Jessica
via
figured
off
the
top
of
my
head.
The
question
you
specifically
asked
me
was
what
Barnett
consequentials
had
been
given
to
the
enterprise
agency
to
prepare
for
Blake's
the
question
of
how
much
support
is
going
to
the
business
community
as
a
consequence,
the
brakes
will
be
a
much
higher
figure
and
I'm
happy
to
come
back
to
committee
or
not
good.
Thank
you.
H
Five
hundred
million
people
is
very
important
to
the
Scottish
economy,
but
what
I
wanted
to
ask
you
about
was
the
eut
agreements
with
over
70
countries
and
whether
the
UK
government
has
there
any
discussions
with
you
about
what
happens
at
the
end
of
the
transition
period
in
December
2020.
When
those
agreements
come
in
in
ezekiel's
consent,
I
mean.
C
Again,
I
can
ask
a
Kevin
Quinlan
to
cover
more
because
Kevin
will
work
in
between
ministers
and
also
Michael
Russell,
who
is
leading
a
with
a
UK
government
in
terms
of
negotiations.
I
was
quite
looking
forward
believer
or
not
to
next
Monday.
When
I
was
to
be
meeting
the
business
secretary
in
the
UK
government
and
I.
Imagine
it
would
have
been
to
discuss
preparations
for
brakes
understand.
C
M
Obviously
this
is
super
important
in
terms
of
future
trade
access.
We
have
been
engaging
I,
think
the
flow
of
information
was
pretty
good
in
in
the
spring
in
terms
of
progress
that
they
were
making.
Since
then,
there
was
a
leak
in
white
or
not
in
the
Scottish
government,
and
that
flow
of
information
has
dwindled
to
a
trickle.
M
We
still
have
some
sort
of
informal
heads-up
in
terms
of
your
specific
question:
have
what
happens
after
the
transition
period,
I
think
by
and
large
at
the
moment,
the
Department
for
international
trade
is
working
on
the
assumption
that
those
trade
agreements
will
roll
over
even
when
they
are
signed,
and
that
any
renegotiation
would
happen
in
slower
time.
There
is
a
practical
problem
that
they
frankly
face
the
challenge
of
bandwidth
to
be
able
to
do
any
substantial
renegotiation.
M
D
D
C
If
it's
a
deal
that
damages
Scotland,
no,
we
wouldn't
support
a
deal
that
damages
Scotland.
So
if
there
is
a
deal,
not
that
there's
any
evidence
that
there's
going
to
be
a
deal
if
it's
Theresa
Meers
deal
or
a
Nevada
an
author,
a
close
feeling
of
it,
we
know
that
will
damage
Scotland.
So
we
didn't
support
that
deal
no
deal
breakers
catastrophic,
but
if
I
deal
MLG
so
then
of
course
the
Scottish
government
would
look
at
it.
You
know,
but
ambition
is
clearly
and
ultimately
we
want
Scotland
to
stay
within
the
European
Union.
C
C
Okay,
there
you
a
deal
West
visa
me.
I
was
also
ideal
that
damages
Scotland
F
a
new
deal
and
may
abuse
between
Boris
Johnston
and
the
Europe
in
Union.
Let's
wait
and
see
Hema
dirts
convenor,
but
if
a
damages
Scotland,
then
why
should
the
Scottish
government
support
it
when
it's
contrary
to
not
just
for
the
Scottish
government
thanks,
but
what
the
people
of
Scotland
thought
when
they
voted
in
the
referendum
to
stay
within
the
European
Union.
I
I
shared
the
cabinet
Secretary's
response
to
the
convener,
but
can
I
take
him
to
something
Mike
Russell,
the
cabinet
secretary
for
constitutional
relationship,
and
that
was
a
New
Deal
brexit
would
generate
a
significant
economic
shock.
Given
his
new
fiscal
powers
to
deal
with
economic
shops
and
well,
the
Scottish
government
seek
to
borrow
additional
funding
to
meet
the
crisis
that
we
think
breaks.
It
will
present
I
think.
C
It's
a
very
fair
question:
convener
I
would
want
to
relate
it
to
a
a
latane,
the
Finance
Committee
this
week
as
well
and
shared
with
the
economy
committee
that
I
have
already
engaged
with
Treasury
to
see
that
I
think
the
current
parameters
around
resource
borrowing
papers
are
inadequate
and
you
know
apparently
inadequate
because
of
the
information
that's
coming
to
light,
just
in
terms
of
if
you
take
the
income
tax
reconciliation
as
well,
or
what
we
might
want
to
do.
Our
own
discussion,
national
investment
bank,
in
the
borrowing
it
parameters
Lea.
C
But
then,
yes,
if
you
add
and
volatility
as
well
of
breaks,
then
I
do
believe
that
the
current
parameters
we've
got
are
inadequate.
You
know
so
I
think
that's
a
straight
bar
answer
to
the
question.
I,
don't
think
the
powers
we
have,
the
borrowing
powers
we
have
around
resourcing
capital
are
adequate,
especially
facing
this
volatility
and
I
see
economic
difficulty,
a
off
the
back
of
an
audio
breaks
in
terms
of
a
resource
and
borrowing.
C
The
Scottish
Government,
of
course,
has
a
very
modest
aim
reserves
essentially
at
around
a
hundred
and
thirty-five
million
pounds
just
in
resource
a
reserves,
and
there
are
say
borrowing
limits
that
are
in
place.
But
I
would
refer
you
to
the
comments
that
I
made
earlier
that
to
execute
a
new
deal
breaks
plan.
If
the
UK
doesn't
fund,
then
we're
either
reprioritizing
from
within
or
we'll
have
to
curtail
our
contingency
plans
to
support
our
plans.
C
Now
that
that
is
a
concern
and
that's
why
the
UK
government
should
fully
fund
the
consequences
of
an
audio
break
set,
but
they're
borrowing,
the
financial
limits
that
we
work
with
then
I
present
to
Finance,
Committee
and,
of
course,
budget
time.
A
the
UK
government
has
looked
at
the
prospect
of
well
a
budget.
We
thought
it
might
be
an
emergency
budget.
There
wasn't
the
UK
budgets
yet
to
be
set,
but
I
would
say
our
funding
plans,
the
scottish
budget,
and
that
would
give
a
response
to
this.
C
I
Answer
my
question,
so
let
me
just
prior
get
again
a
little
bit
more.
You
do
have
an
additional
fiscal
power
negotiated
by
the
previous
finance
secretary
with
the
UK
Treasury,
but
in
the
case
of
economic
shocks,
you
can
borrow
more
money,
which
is
a
perfectly
legitimate
thing
to
do.
Those
triggers
are
met,
in
my
view,
all
will
certainly
be
met
in
the
context
of
a
new
deal.
Breck
sir
I
want
to
push
you
on
whether
you
are
likely
to
use
that
revenue
stream.
That's
open
to
you
so.
C
Let
me
I
tried
to
get
a
really
comprehensive
answer,
because
it's
a
good
question
and
I
know
certainly
addressed
that
at
the
Finance
Committee
and
in
a
subsequent
budget.
So,
let's
separate
out
the
two
things.
What
I'm
saying
is,
first
of
all,
before
we
come
to
those
economic
shock
as
its
described
a
resort
borrowing
limits
the
first
one
is,
would
I
be
able
to
borrow
more
to
fund
No,
Deal
preparations
and
I.
C
Suppose
that's
why
I
was
trying
to,
and
so
that
be
very
limited
sought
to
do,
because
the
Scottish
Government's
budget
and
the
parliament
has
approved
that
budget
and
unless
those
extra
resource
coming
to
Scotland,
we
can't
fully
fund
the
the
New
Deal
plan
and
I'm
already
describing
I
believe
that
the
volatility
were
facing
because
of
a
number
of
matters.
I
think
already
suggest
that
the
UK
government
should
be
more
flexible
in
our
borrowing
powers.
C
Separate
to
that
so
I
think
I
tried
to
give
an
honest
answer
on
that:
a
analyzing,
the
situation,
because
it's
a
fair
question
to
say
you
know:
how
can
you
fund
some
of
the
New
Deal
breaks
that
preparation?
They
need
the
New
Deal
impact
a
few
key
government's,
not
going
to
do
that
and
that
which
can
Katya
what
we
can
do
around
Mehta
Gatien
sacred
to
that
we
haven't
yet
met
the
criteria
for
that
component,
part
of
resource
borrowing
as
a
consequence
of
the
economy,
a
SFC
of
course
make
a
judgement
or
not
as
well.
C
If
we
do
and
that's
the
question,
if
we
do,
if
there
is
divergence
from
the
rest
of
the
UK,
then
out
with
n
:
to
question
and
then
the
ability
to
borrow
against
the
economic
divergence
point.
Of
course
the
fear
might
be
that
the
UK
is
in
recession
as
well,
so
the
FGB
P
might
be
impacted
as
well
as
Scotland's,
whereas
the
fiscal
frameworks
parameters,
a
was
was
that
relative
possession
was
at
naught
the
relative
possession
between
the
UK
and
Scotland.
C
So
I
think
that
gives
us
father
cause
for
Treasury
to
look
again
at
the
parameters
around
resource
and
capital
borrowing.
They
will
allow
wise
to
deal
with
an
economic
shock
and
I
think
the
way
they
arrangements.
What
say,
oh,
is
a
Scotland
only
shock,
whereas
I
think
the
point
that
Jackie
Bailey's
driving
out
is
where
an
economic
shocks
an
economic
shock,
and
how
can
we
have
more
tools
and
more
levers
to
pull?
In
that
scenario,
it
won't
be
just
Scotland
an
economic
shock,
sort
to
speak,
it'll
be
the
UK
as
well
and
I.
I
I
pursue
the
money
already
allocated
for
brexit
with
the
cabinet
secretary,
very
quickly,
convener
37
million
in
2018
nineteen,
fifty
five
million
twenty
nineteen
twenty
another
40
million
announced
by
the
Chancellor
on
the
such
first
of
July.
Could
you
provide
committee
with
a
full
breakdown
for
nineteen
twenty
by
portfolio?
You
did
so
for
me
an
answer
to
a
question
about
twenty
eighteen
nineteen,
but
said
you
couldn't
provide
it
for
nineteen
twenty.
This
strikes
me
as
rather
strange
so
I'm
happy.
I
If
you
would
write
to
the
committee
with
that
breakdown
in
that
written
response,
could
you
separate
out
the
if
it's
possible
to
do
so
that
money
that's
been
spent
on
No
Deal
preparation,
as
opposed
to
generally
break
set
preparation
and
finally,
you've
made
a
bid
for
a
further
fifty
two
million
pounds
from
the
contingency
fund
which
I'm
supportive
of?
But
could
you
tell
us
how
this
is
broken
down?
Okay,.
C
It
can
be
now
try
and
be
as
helpful
as
possible.
We
first
of
all
it's
true
to
say
that
in
terms
of
the
brexit
consequentials,
they
they've
been
allocated
to
support
that
preparedness.
The
if
there's
an
audio
breaks
that
the
consequential
so
far
will
come.
Nowhere
close
to
actually
resourcing
the
response
to
an
audio
break.
So
I
can
itemize
those
areas
a
not
right
now
and
I.
C
That
was
very
strict,
very
tight
criteria
for
that
aim,
which
is
we
worked
at
pace
to
produce
a
bed
aim
for
that.
This
request
includes
funding
to
support
the
disproportionate
effect
of
New
Deal
on
rural
communities,
including
ensuring
medical
support
reaches
these
areas,
a
increased
demand
on
Marine
Scotland
compliance
activities
around
Scotland's
coastline,
additional
communications
to
EU
citizens
living
in
Scotland,
increased
demands
or
increased
Scotland,
and
also
poverty
mitigation
measures
to
support
financially
vulnerable
households.
That's
the
nature
of
the
52
million
pound
bed
that
send
with
Treasury
at
this
point
in
time.
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
We
come
now
to
item
four
on
our
agenda,
which
is
the
consumer
Scotland
bill
and
joining
us.
Today.
We
have
a
number
of
witnesses
from
my
left
to
right.
First
of
all,
Norman
care
director
of
energy
action.
Scotland
then
Thomas
Daugherty,
who
is
the
head
of
public
affairs,
nations
and
regions
for
which
thank
you
for
coming
in
both
of
you
and
also
to
Jonathan
Linton,
is
the
Ombudsman
are
from
the
Ombudsman
services.
So
thank
you
to
all
three
for
coming
in
today.
If
I
might
start
with,
Jackie
Bailey
has
some
questions.
N
Thank
You,
Jackie
I
think
the
some
points
of
convener
is
no.
We
don't
believe
it
will
add
much
to
the
landscape.
I
think
all
those
have
said
it
will
tighten
the
landscape.
We're
not
convinced
on
that.
I
believe
what
that
spell
is
trying
to
do
is
provide
additional
powers
and
that
could
easily
have
been
governed
to
set
in
his
advice.
N
At
the
time
when
consumer
futures,
Consumer
Focus
M
was
disbanded
and
Citizens
Advice
across
Great
Britain
was
to
take
on
their
responsibilities
and
Jackson
Scotland
argued
that
citizens
race
should
be
accountable
and
should
be
accountable
to
Parliament
and
and
not
respect
Parliament.
Then
we'd
have
a
duty
to
your
previous.
What
plan
to
receive
such
reports
and
that
would
be
for
consumer
detriment.
This
is
simply
trying
to
replicate
that.
N
O
Reverse
position
where
we
agree
with
nori
worth
Jacky,
just
when
about
the
very
start
and
saying
in
2015,
when
the
powers
were
first
proposed
coming
up
the
Smith
Commission
before
devolution.
The
original
proposal
from
the
Scottish
Government
was
to
create
a
single
body,
but
actually
Kaz
ourselves.
The
other
members
of
the
independent
working
group
said
that
wasn't
the
way
to
do
now
it
you
know
that
might
not
be
everyone's
position,
but
as
a
starting
point,
I'm
happy
subsequently
to
explain
why
that
was,
but
from
from
the
almost
from
the
start,
it
was
felt
they're.
O
Having
two
distinct
bodies
with
to
clear
remit
was
the
way
to
go
forward.
We
are
huge
Amaya's
of
what
isn't
of
I
Scotland
does
in
terms
of
financial
well-being
in
terms
of
tackling
things
like
fuel
poverty,
around
welfare
benefits,
Citizens
Advice,
you
know
in
terms
of
immigration
and
employment
rights.
Those
are
all
things
that
it
will
continue
to
do.
O
What
consumer
Scotland
will
do
is
it
will
focus
purely
on
those
issues
which
are
within
the
consumer
landscape,
and
it's
worth
remembering
that
Scottish
consumers
per
month
spend
over
8
billion
pounds
and
in
order
to
spend
that
money
they've
got
to
have
confidence
that
the
markets
they
are
transacting
in
are
working
for
them.
We
know
that
in
too
many
markets,
that
is
not
the
case.
O
Some
of
those
are
reserved
some
of
those
that
devolved
markets
and
we
think
there
is,
as
does
frankly,
almost
everybody
who
made
a
submission
is
that
there
is
clearly
gaps
in
the
in
the
environment.
What
I
think
as
well,
the
Scottish
Government
has
done
rightly,
is
rather
than
saying.
There
is
just
these
gaps
here,
so
we're
going
to
squeeze
in
a
new
body
without
touching
the
sides
of
anybody
else,
who's
doing
things,
they've
they've
they've
done.
O
In
our
view,
the
right
thing
they've
had
a
look
across
the
board
and
said
what
responsibilities
should
move
from
other
organisations
to
consumer
Scotland
and
what
they
have
done
is
they've
created
the
system
which,
in
our
view,
is
bold.
It
is
brave,
but
it's
logical
as
well.
So
when
organisations
like
ourselves
look
at
the
two
new
bodies,
it
is
clear
which
of
them
does
what
and
also
alongside
that,
what
organisations
like
training,
centre,
Scotland
and
a
vice-director
Scotland
will
be
doing.
F
I'm
not
gonna
pretend
to
be
an
expert
in
that,
so
in
the
consumer
landscape
in
Scotland.
What
I
will
say
is
what
kind
of
the
complaints
that
we
deal
with
there's
a
clearly
a
complaint
class,
that's
unique
to
Scotland
and
we
get.
We
received
a
different
set
of
complaints
from
Scottish
consumers
as
opposed
to
the
rest
of
the
UK
in
our
communication
scheme,
for
example,
availability
broadband
speed
of
broadband
mobile
signal
availability,
particularly
in
rural
areas,
really
stands
out
in
the
data
when
we
look
at
that
for
Scottish
consumers.
F
So
we
can
see
the
argument
for
setting
up
a
consumer
advocacy
advocacy
focuses
on
those
types
of
issues
for
Scottish
consumers.
I.
Think
we'll
also
say
that
we
are
doing
some
work
at
the
moment
in
what,
with
one
of
the
working
group,
set
up
to
look
at
the
data
strategy
for
consumer
Scotland.
Actually,
we
see
some
quite
exciting
things
going
on
there,
so
we
so
the
group
are
looking
to
bring
about
bring
data
together
from
numerous
different
organisations,
including
ourselves.
F
The
Financial
Ombudsman
advice
there
at
Scotland
and
commercial
organizations
like
Trustpilot
unresolved,
to
bring
a
much
better
picture
about
the
consumer
and
we're
detriment
is
occurring
and
we're
looking
at
standardizing
data
sets
across
those
different
organizations
and
bringing
them
together
to
understand
the
experience
of
consumers.
We
think
that's
really
innovative.
We
haven't
seen
any
other
organizations
doing
that
kind
of
work.
We
think
it's.
It
could
be
the
model
of
a
cross
organizational
data
sharing
in
the
future.
So
we
can
see
some
positives.
Ok,.
I
Can
I
take
you
on
to
something
that
I
think
it
was
Thomas
Daugherty
mentioned
that
this
isn't
just
about
filling
gaps.
This
is
about
providing
something
more
coherent
strategically.
On
that
basis,
do
you
see
any
problems
or
any
potential
problems
that
the
existence
of
consumer
Scotland
will
reduce
public
funding
available
to
other
consumer
organisations
if
they're
gonna
be
doing
part,
the
job
that
others
currently
do?
Do
you
think
others
will
lose
money?
I
O
Little
but
since
my
Scotland,
it
will
not
lose
any
money
either
for
its
cab
network
or
for
the
work
it
does
around
Citizens
Advice
issues
that
money
is
not
being
touched.
It
would
be
an
interesting
argument
to
say
we
are
going
to
have
a
new
consumer
Scotland
body,
but
we're
also
then
going
to
fund
a
second
body
to
also
spend
taxpayers
money.
Doing
the
very
things
that
the
first
body
is
doing,
I
mean
I
think
that
that
doesn't
make
sense.
So
clearly,
yes,
money
that
is
given
to
citizens
of
ice,
Scotland
and
I.
O
Think
in
the
selection
memorandum
they've
submitted
convener
to
the
Finance
Committee
they've,
put
that
figure
at
about
1.5.
2
million
of
money
will
move
from
citizens
of
I
Scotland
to
consumer
Scotland,
because
that
is
the
money
they
are
given
by
the
Scottish
Government
for
looking
at
consumer
issues,
not-not-not
example
fuel.
O
So
if
you
look
at
the
promoters
say
the
tax
memorandum,
the
total
budget
for
consumer
Scotland
and
I
took
my
head.
It's
about
1.9
million
in
that
area
and
we've
we
have
sought
clear
assurances
which
we've
been
given
and
conscious.
You've
got
them
in
coming
next
month,
so
I'm
sure
you're
challenging
on
this,
that
there
will
be
a
real
term
increase
in
funding
on
the
consumer
Scotland.
So
it's
not
just
taking
the
1.5
2
million
it's
taking
the
1.5
3
million,
putting
in
additional
funding
to
deliver
a
first-class
consumer,
research
and
advocacy
body.
N
Glad
to
hear
that
no
funding
will
be
displaced,
but
I
don't
see
how
we
can
make
that
commitment.
Just
now,
I
don't
know.
Colleagues
at
Citizens
Advice
up
deeply
deeply
concerned
that
perhaps
for
a
short
period
that
they
may
be
the
first
year
that
they
will
see
no
change,
but
after
that
that
money
will
be
erupted
away
from
them.
N
I
I
ask
one
further
question:
this
is
more
about
brand
and
then
I'll
stop
convene
because
I'm
conscious
of
time,
Citizens
Advice
Scotland
with
their
network
of
Citizens
Advice
bureaux,
are
a
recognized
and
trusted
brand.
Certainly
in
my
local
community
and
I
suspect
all
of
yours,
consumer
Scotland
is
brand
new.
It's
a
government
agency
to
not
think
that
actually
giving
the
Citizens
Advice
Scotland
Network
the
powers
actually
plays
better
with
where
consumers
are
just
now.
O
O
Will
it
be?
Well?
Will
it
be
a
more
bluntly?
That's
not
the
right
comparison,
because
consumer
Scotland
isn't
going
to
be
isn't
going
to
be
delivering
advocacy
services
advice.
Direct
Scotland
is
already
since
the
1st
of
April
delivering
those
advice.
Services
in
telephony
in
online
in
social
media,
the
the
consumer
Scotland
isn't
trying
to
be
a
brand
like
that
and
if,
frankly,
it
was
then
I
think
this
committee
might
have
some
questions
about
ending
a
public
money.
It's
job
is
to
do
research
identified
areas
of
consumer
debts.
O
I
will
be
research
to
identify
areas,
consumer
detriment,
investigate
what's
causing
those
problems,
propose
solutions
and
then
advocate
to
regulate
as
businesses,
Scottish
government
and
UK
government.
How
how
those
problems
should
be
fixed.
The
delivery
device
services
is
advice,
direct
Scotland
and
Cass.
So
cabs.
N
While
we
see
a
new
body
and
I
take
what
Thomas
Daugherty
is
saying,
I'll
be
the
research
sentence
of
a
Scotland
already
does
research,
it
should
already
try
to
influence
in
terms
of
settings.
Advice,
GB,
the
UK,
Parliament
and
much
of
what
we're
talking
about
here
in
terms
of
telephony
or
dealing
with
broadband
speeds
or
dealing
with
energy
suppliers
will
continue
to
be
within
the
remit
of
the
routine
powers
at
Westminster
as
I
understand
that.
N
G
Basically,
you
know
Kenyans
answer
this
question:
do
you
think
the
duty
to
collaborate
which
appears
on
the
bill
or
Ndebele
as
sufficient
to
ensure
that
consumer
Scotland
does
not
duplicate
duplicate
the
work
of
other
consumer
bodies?
Like
councils,
Trading
Standards
officers
set
their
vase
push
of
the.
N
Issue
or
in
collaboration
is
one
that
I
think
is
definitely
needed.
Collaboration
is
always
good,
however.
F
that
collaboration
all
I
realize
on
the
goodwill
of
others
and
an
energy
action
Scotland
submersion.
We
knew
it
excuse
me
of
local
agencies
such
as
sow
seeds
and
Guinea
Arkady,
your
very
much
a
boots
on
the
ground
in
those
areas.
N
If
that
relies
solely
on
good
well
and
then
it's
very
hard
mass,
because
those
organizations
have
already
seen
funding
pooled
from
them
and
the
more
funding
with
people
from
small
local
and
were
not
talking
about
the
million
or
so
that
have
now
been
taken
away
from
Citizens
Advice
and
we're
talking
about
the
funding
organization
of
got.
If
that
collaboration
is
based
on
good
well
from
a
government
agency
that
holds
all
of
the
funding,
then
those
smaller
organizations
still
need
funding.
They
still
need
to
fund
premises.
G
G
Funds
I
exactly
it's.
The
council
is
another
government
sort
of
anybody's
getting
ripped
away.
It's
their
local
government,
it's
three
local
azzam
local
government
with
a
wrapped.
Our
way.
No,
that's
not
question.
I
want
Ashley.
Basically,
at
the
end
of
the
day.
Oh
no!
No!
It's
true.
You
know
the
physical
situation
as
a
novice
accounts
like
you
know
that
Norman
right
councils,
our
key
to
localism,
allocate
money
to
whoever
they
wish,
but
the
basically
the
I
want
to
get
back
to
the
consumer.
G
So
if
I
again
and
I
buy
a
wonky
television
and
I
go
to
sell,
sets
a
vase
and
they
can't
help
me
because
we
generally
sometimes
find
that
some
companies
don't
react
to
some
people,
so
don't
react
to
set
in
a
vase.
I
then
complain
to
Ombudsman
about
them.
If
I
can
right
and
they
may
no
listen
to
them.
Sometimes
people
don't
listen
to
you.
Either
I've
came
across
er
in
the
bus,
but
if
I
then
go
to
consumer
Scotland
and
people
go,
oh
wait.
A
manner!
That's
consumer
Scotland!
G
The
earth
tied
up
to
the
the
Scottish
government.
We're
better
set
up.
Something
did
not
agree.
This
time's
going
to
different
people,
even
people
come
here.
Species
can
sometimes
get
a
reaction
and
mostly
the
same
get
a
reaction.
Do
you
not
agree
that,
depending
on
who
you
go
to
that's,
you
may
get
out
of
the
ice
I.
N
N
So
therefore
4matic
or
then
I
think
the
bail
needs
to
be
explicit
and
that
and
if
as
explicit,
then
it
needs
to
show
what
the
link
between
the
already
consumer
landscape
as
because
the
organization's
I
mentioned
green
of
Kirkcaldy
and
sow
seeds
receive
funding
from
the
Scottish
government,
not
from
the
local
authorities.
So
well
we're
talking
about
wrapping
funding.
Are
we
it's?
Not
local
authorities
are
up
in
fund
in
a
way
they
are
already
under
strain
and
if
you
look,
it
says
is
advice
there
used
to
be
eight
citizens
at
base
bureaus
and
Glasgow.
N
O
Mean
it's,
it's
look,
I
mean
I,
accept
the
fact.
May
the
Scottish
government
and
the
minister
when
he
comes
next
month,
it's
going
to
have
to
do
some
explaining
to
people
and
but
I
say
this
again:
it's
not
it's!
It's
it's
not
taking
away
money
from
those
frontline
organisations,
because
it's
not
doing
that
job.
That's
that,
specifically
what
it's
not
doing!
Convener
it's
it's!
It's
not
seeking
its
total
headcount
is
going
to
be
somewhere
between
16
and
20.
In
the
in
the
in
the
memorandum
they've
they've
they've
been
submitted.
O
Any
suggestion
that
it
could
deliver
a
face-to-face
advocacy
service
would
be
as
ludicrous
as
citizens
of
I
Scotland
trying
to
set
up
a
rival
telephony
advice
scheme
to
advise
directs
Scotland.
That's
just
not
what
its
purpose
is.
It
is,
and
also
I
mean.
The
other
thing
so
very
briefly,
is
I.
Think
need
be
really
clear.
People
who
go
to
Citizens
Advice
bureaus
are
not
going
on
standalone
consumer
issues.
That
is
not
what
they
are.
They
are
going.
O
O
Those
customers
won't
be
walking
into
citizens
of
ice
bureaus
in
any
number
whatsoever
to
have
that
kind
of
conversation,
because
that's
just
not
what
people
do
the
staff
who've
lost
their
jobs
might
very
well
be
coming
in
convener
to
get
advice
about
where
they
stand
for
naturally,
and
that's
the
brilliant
job
that
citizen,
the
vice
Scotland
does
and
will
continue
to
do
for
that
for
the
for
the
future.
That's
that's
the
very
clear,
divided.
F
Think
I'll,
just
that's
it!
That's
what
that's
what's
been
said
that
we
optimist.
We
talk
about
strategic
redress
so
as
well
as
helping
the
individual
we
look
at.
How
can
we
work
with
other
organizations
to
improve
the
consumer
experience?
So
that's
probably
four
pillars
of
consumer
protection,
that
is
advice,
advocacy,
enforcement
and
redress
how
those
organizations
work
together
can
determine
you
know
how
the
consumer
experience
can
be
improved.
F
So
he
also
has
that
works
brilliantly
well
in
the
past
or
I
would
say,
probably
not
I
think
there
I
think
we
are
improving
as
a
as
a
as
a
group
of
organisations.
So,
for
example,
now
in
energy
we
have
a
tripartite
arrangement
with
Citizens,
Advice,
UK
and
oft
gem,
and
we
get
together
every
month
and
we
look
at
our
data
and
we
we
identify
issues
and
they
are
causing
detriment
to
consumers,
and
then
we
put
a
plan
together
in
terms
of
what
are
we
going
to
do
as
the
ADR
provider?
F
O
Why?
Because
it's
because
of
what
it
is
intending
to
do,
it
intends
to
be
a
research
body,
an
investigatory
body
at
a
and
put
stress,
I,
don't
mean
in
looking
at
an
individual
transaction
or
individual
company.
Even
looking
at
investigations
of
markets,
it's
going
to
be
developing
policy
and
it's
then
going
to
be
advocating
on
behalf
of
consumers
to
those
organizations
there
are,
you
could
add
some
additional
powers,
mr.
F
Will
just
which
point
to
the
good
work
that
Citizens
Advice
did
a
year
or
so
ago
on
the
highlights
in
the
loyalty
penalty,
so
Citizens
Advice
found
that
customers
who
stay
with
companies
for
a
period
tend
to
pay
more
than
new
customers
and
within
that
vulnerable
customers
are
more
likely
to
stay
with
that,
where
their
service
provider,
so
they
are.
They
are
a
group
that
who
are
significantly
impacted
upon
those
things,
and
it's
that
kind
of
work
that
we
expect
consumer
Scotland
to
be
doing
for
Scottish
consumers
and
I.
F
F
Again
that
this
is
probably
probably
not
my
area
of
expertise,
I
think.
The
one
thing
we
we
like
in
the
bill
is
the
fact
that
it
places
a
an
expectation
on
public
bodies
to
take
into
account
the
impact
on
consumers
of
any
any
future
changes
to
the
law
and
I.
Think
that's.
That's
pretty
good
I,
don't
know
what
my
fellow
panel
members.
O
J
O
Because
it's
not
trying
to
be
an
enforcement
body,
so
I
think
that's
again,
I
back
because
it's
not
trying
to
be
an
enforcement
body.
It
does
not
need
enforcement
powers,
which
is
not
an
enforcement
body.
Citizens
of
I
Scotland
is
not
an
enforcement
body.
We
are
advocates.
We
do
research,
we
do
advocate
advocacy,
so
we
we
are
trying
to
step
on
to
the
toes
of
others,
but.
N
A
I'm
just
wondering
if
I
could
just
briefly
interject
there
I'm
almost
off
today,
I
think
in
the
the
which
submission
to
the
committee
you
see.
The
proposed
bill
provides
consumer
Scotland
with
the
necessary
powers
to
quickly
represent
consumer
interest
and
achieve
it
stated
aim
of
improving
support
for
Scottish
people.
O
So
because
it's
a
sorry
to
repeat
myself,
it
is,
it
is
not
trying
to
act
like
a
Trading,
Standards
body.
It's
not
trying
to
act
like
a
regulator,
so
those
will
be
the
two
areas,
I
think
particular
where
you
would
need
enforcement
powers.
What
it's
trying
to
do
is
look
at
where
so
you
know
give
you
three
or
four
examples:
convener,
banking
services,
access
to
cash,
legal
services,
telecoms
and
rail.
O
None
of
those
issues
have
had
any
attention
from
a
consumer
body
within
Scotland
in
recent
years,
and
you
know,
members
of
this
committee
have
tabled
many
questions
and
raised
the
quality
of
services
in
their
area.
Those
are
within
the
that
that
there,
those
are
the
types
of
things
that
we've
identified,
that
consumer
Scotland's.
We
look
at
where
the
problem
are
and
come
up
with
solutions.
There
is
a
say
there
isn't.
There
is
an
argument
going
forward
around
this
question
is
super
complaints.
O
O
We
would
like
to
see
there
are.
There
are
a
number
of
areas
of
consumer
markets
where,
where
access
to
ADR
schemes
to
Ombudsman
schemes
is
not
compulsory,
where
the
detriment
we
believe
is
severe,
I
would
hope
that,
because
obviously
there
are
so
many
areas
that
you
could
choose
to
focus
on
that
in
the
first
couple
of
years
it
might
carry
out
an
investigation
into
how
Scottish
consumers
are
affected
by
not
having
a
right
to
automatic
ADR
in
some
of
those
schemes.
F
Yeah
I
think
we've
we've
we've
got
some
experience
of
offering
ADR
in
unregulated
sectors.
We
are.
We
opened
the
consumer
Ombudsman
in
2015,
following
the
introduction
of
new
regulations
that
required
all
traders
to
offer
or
to
make
make
make
customers
aware
of
ADR
and
traders
were
never
compelled
to
use
the
ADR
scheme
that
they
inform
their
consumers
about.
So
so
actually
we're
now
can
I
just
interrupt.
J
F
From
my
point
of
view,
I
didn't
anticipate.
The
King
of
Scotland
would
act
as
a
redress
body,
but
as
as
Thomas
said,
we
think
that
I
think
that
there
are
areas
of
in
in
in
business
sectors
where
the
lack
of
redress
and
causes
causes
problems
for
consumers.
So
I
would
reiterate
that
I
think
it's.
It
would
be
an
interesting
area
of
consumer
Scotland
to
explore,
but,
as
I
said,
I
wouldn't
anticipate
it's
because
she
was
Scotland
necessarily
be
in
the
redress
organisation
themselves.
D
And
a
couple
of
the
points
were
raised
about
banking
situation,
say
regards
to
banking,
I
mean
which
themselves
have
done
report
on
Scottish
banking,
so
it
has
been
covered
off
to
discuss.
Affairs
Committee
have
done
an
inquiry
into
banking
and
bank
closures.
This
committee
have
done
enquiry
into
bank
closures.
So
is
you
know
there
aren't
that
there
is
coverage
of
this
issue?
There
is
research
into
the
problem.
There
are
solutions,
also
sorry
suggestions.
O
A
wonderful
morning
giving
evidence
to
this
committee
I
think
about
18
months
ago
convener
on
this
issue
of
banking,
which
I
raised
it,
and
if
you
recall
the
time
I
said
that
whilst
we
had
produced
some
statistics
that
said
there
was
there
was
we
had.
We
had
some
what
I
call
what
statistics.
So
what
had
been
the
loss
of
branches
and
we've
put
up
new
information
as
well
that
in
the
last
five
years
alone,
a
third
of
branches
have
gone
from
from
Scotland,
but
there's
that
there
hasn't
been
any
work
done
as
to
the.
O
Why
and
there
hasn't
been
and
as
I
said,
the
committee
there
hasn't
been
work
done
us
to
watch
the
longer
term
impact.
So
that's
I
think
very
that
those
are
in
particular.
So
it's
all
very
well
having
statistics
and
actually,
frankly,
we
have
no
shortage
of
statistics
and
organizations
like
ourselves
can
produce
you
lots
and
lots
of
numbers,
but
it's
the
digging
down
to
do
that.
Reef
that
that's
that
investigation
that
has
been
missing
at
the.
D
Moment
I
mean
you,
don't
think
that
the
work
of
this
committee
and
the
Scottish
where's
committee
of
Westminster
should
be
doing
doing
that
coming
up
with
those
recommendations,
I
mean
that's
what
we
do.
We
we
take
evidence
from
organisations
like
yourself,
the
banks,
etc
from
different
consumer
groups
of
different
individuals
and
come
forward
with
with
suggestions
or
solutions
who.
O
To
carry
out
a
substantive
piece
of
work
to
investigate
using
banking
as
just
as
an
example,
but
this
equally
applies
to
telecoms
or
to
rail.
Where
else
our
advice,
the
Scottish
Government,
is
that,
based
on
the
work
that
we
have
done,
which
of
course
we
we
fund
ourselves,
we're
not
probably
from
the
body
we
take
no
money
from
from
the
taxpayer.
To
do
a
substantive
to
work
to
actually
get
into
the
problem
in
Scotland
would
be
six
figures
now.
O
This
committee
doesn't
have
six
figures
to
spend
on
that
type
of
in-depth
research,
and
that
would
include
doing
some
market
research,
some
polling,
doing
some
focus
groups
in
say
the
Highlands
and
Islands
doing
one
in
Edinburgh
convener
doing
doing
one
in
Kilmarnock
per
se.
You
know
that
kind
of
understanding
what
everyday
finances
people
are
trying
to
use.
That's
that's
work
that
is
not
currently
being
done
and
then
proposing
solutions
and
then
campaigning.
So
that's
a
bit
about
advocacy
is
the
thing
campaigning.
O
H
Thanks
in
a
much
kinder
and
just
to
continue
the
discussion
about
about
the
research
aspect
of
things,
consumers,
when
I've
got
a
problem,
they
may
go
to
Citizens
Advice,
they
may
go
to
Trading
Standards
and
they
make
for
naught,
which,
for
advice
or
and
my
constituency,
that
is,
the
one-stop
shop
which
isn't
aligned
with
any
of
other
organisations
and
I'm.
Just
wondering
as
I
add
that
wealth
of
case
has
to
do
this
out
there
is
there
any
other
organization
pulling
all
of
that
together
to
identify
trains,
problems,
areas
that
should
be
investigated.
H
N
Don't
believe
there
will
be
an
issue
sharing
the
data
as
I
anonymize.
The
data
would
need
to
be
and
I
think
that,
in
terms
of
organisations
already
collecting
data
and
their
GDP
are
then
it's
if
they
are
not
already
collecting
the
data
that
can
be
anonymized.
Then
it's
what
we
do
with
all
of
the
old
stuff
and
so
I
think
we
it's
the
preparation
of
that
data
together,
I
knocked
a
little
body
and
a
new
body
that
may
be
a
something
that
would
require
file
about
what.
O
And
I
mean
I
have
a
meeting.
So
if
you
as
well
Thursday
afternoon,
the
Scottish
government,
it's
got
a
data
working
group
just
actually
digging
in
mr.
McDonald.
Exactly
to
that
point
about
what
do
you
know?
What
would
you
need
to
do?
I
mean
we
already
share
data,
exactly
as
Norman
says
on,
you
know,
taking
out
the
individual
data,
so
individual
details
of
people,
it's
the
trends
that
are
that
are
crucial.
So
it's
not
about
one
person's
had
a
bad
experience
of
buying
a
used
car.
O
H
N
If
you
look
at
the
size
and
shape
that's
been
proposed
for
the
organization
20
staff
project
in
half
million,
that's
a
lot
of
shoes
that
we're
already
making
up
to
put
on
an
organization
of
that
size
to
create
the
database
that
you've
got
that
you
want,
as
well
as
getting
a
cooperation
of
our
money
out
of
other
organizations.
So
if,
if
we
want
the
or
the
organization
to
do
that,
then
I
think
we
need
to
be
very
explicit
within
the
belt.
Obey
that
all
eyes
and
be
more
realistic.
N
H
O
Absolutely
crucial,
that's
the
one
of
things.
We
know
that
the
Scottish
government
has
been
very
clear
on
on
the
we've
all
said
that
it
is
a
consuming.
That
is
a
confusing
landscape,
part
of
me
for
consumers,
and
it's
not
always
about
inventing
something
new.
It's
about
providing
it's.
It's
like
it's
about
making
sure
that
that
that
consumers
know
where
to
go
to
whether
it
be
going
to
the
Ombudsman
Service
for
redress
going
to
training
standards
as
well
we're
going
to
advise
direct
Scotland.
E
Thomas
you
were
talking
about
you,
give
some
examples
earlier
about
some
of
the
issues
that
come
up:
availability
of
cash
and
disparity
and
digital
connectivity,
and
issues
like
that.
Has
it
been
the
case
that
they've,
never
a
leader,
had
a
home
to
go
to
for
people
to
raise
complaints
or
issues
about
it.
Is
that
what
consumer
of
Scotland
mate
can
I
begin
to
Hoover
up
some
of
the
issues
that
didn't
you
have
an
obvious
home
to
get
to?
Is
that
what
the
bill
and
the
body
of
all
prevent
I.
O
Think,
mr.
coffee,
that's
a
an
excellent
question.
I
have
two
parts
that
first,
that
is
that's
all
such
a
part.
Part
of
itself,
is
that
there
has
not
been
a
body.
That's
had
responsibility
for
for,
for
looking
at
those
issues,
understand
what
causes
them
understand,
what
what
the
redress
might
be
and
then
advocate,
but
also
of
course,
some
of
these
are
not
so
much
scott
reil,
but
some
of
those
other
things
like
digital
connectivity.
O
These
are
emerging
I,
mean
we're
all
of
a
certain
ages
that
certainly
you
know,
and
the
idea
of
sitting
with
your
phone.
You
know
there's
an
expectation
now
that
that
broadband
is
now
the
fourth
utility
people
expect
not
just
the
10
megabits,
a
second
us
o
minimum.
They
expect
all
the
time
colleges
the
phone.
In
the
last
30
years,
we've
we've
we've
gone
from
24,000
branches
across
the
UK
in
banks,
down
to
about
seven
and
a
half
thousand.
We
have
seen
reduction
in
ATMs
as
well.
O
Those
are
those
are
more
emerging
issues
and
that's
something
that
again
it's
it's.
It's
working
with
others,
it's
working,
the
Ombudsman
Service
is
working
with
which
it's
working
with
cabs.
To
try
and
identify
where
the,
where
these,
whether
it's
emerging
threats,
are
and
coming
up
with
a
an
action
plan
every
year
and
I
would
be
so
bold
as
to
say.
I
would
be
amazed
if
this
committee
didn't
have
suggestions
for
what
it
might
choose
to
focus
on
in
its
first
couple
of
years,
because
it
can't
do
all
of
those
issues
in
the
first
year.
E
The
constituents
bring
to
me
and
he
asked
EFS
body-
might
be
able
to
do
in
abuddin
and
it's
about
buying
tickets
for
concerts,
theaters
and
so
on,
and
the
ridiculous
plethora
of
fees
are
attached
to
us:
multiple
booking
fees,
for
example,
if
you
buy
four
tickets,
you
pay
for
these
kings
of
Usher's
have
been
a
problem
for
a
long
long
number
of
years.
How
could
we
expect
issue
to
be
dealt
with
by
the
party
and
how
do
we
do
manage
to
deal
with
that
and
make
any
recommendations?
I
think
it's
a
UK
governmentís
kiss
so.
O
I
think
as
part
of
the
UEFA
nations
League
next
summer,
the
Scottish
government
is
bringing
forward
a
bill
around
the
secondary
ticketing,
I
think
that's
correct,
convener
and
that's
exactly
the
kind
of
not
in
terms
of
next
year,
but
the
type
of
example.
Where
you
look
and
say
well,
Scotland.
We
have
a
problem.
We
see
that
that's
big
Festival
events.
We
see
that
a
big
sporting
events
that
that
the
consumers
are
being
ripped
off
and
these
are
proposal,
so
it
isn't
just
about
going
through.
You
can
govern
all
the
time.
O
F
O
We
we
did
some
work
on
secondary
ticketing
and
a
UK
level
to
highlight
some
of
the
practices.
The
CMA
to
the
credit,
has
done
some
work
cracking
down
on
some
of
those
people
like
via
gogo,
but
there
you
know
there
isn't
enough
work
done
on
a
for
example.
How
big
a
problem
is
it
in
Scotland
and
what
what
are
the
powers
of
the
Scottish
Parliament
and
the
Scottish
Government
could
could
take
to
address
it.
E
K
N
N
F
Are
running
an
event
today
at
the
Tory
PI
conference
on
on
exactly
that
issue
the
detriment
experienced
by
by
small
businesses
and
as
we
see
it,
a
lot
of
micro
businesses
have
exactly
the
same
issues
as
consumers
in
terms
of
knowledge
of
the
market
bargaining
power
ability
to
enforce
their
rights.
When
things
go
wrong
and
we
in
we
see
the
Financial
Ombudsman
has
just
expanded
their
remit
that
now
cover
businesses
of
up
to
50
employees.
F
K
A
O
O
Anyone
who
lives
in
Fife
or
indeed
in
Dumbarton
and
has
probably
suffered
at
the
hands
of
Scott,
fail
in
the
last
couple
of
years,
so
I
think
that's
exactly
the
kind
of
thing
that
will
book
that
will
benefit
I
mean
I,
think
to
be
fair.
Actually,
we
we,
we
do
agree
with
citizen
and
that
the
exact
wording
needs
to
be
looked
at
around
this
G
regard.
But
fundamentally
it
is
a
pioneering
step.
O
It's
the
first
part
of
the
Arctic
King
demap,
a
consumer
duty,
and
it's
one
of
the
things
that
the
other
administrations
are
looking
at.
So
if
we
get
consumer
Scotland
right
and
we
get
the
consumer
duty
right,
I
think
Scotland
will,
as
so
often
be
at
the
front
end
of
improving
the
environment
for
consumers.
I.
I
I
Mentioned
Dan
Barton.
Would
you
not
appreciate
that
actually,
M
ESPYs
in
this
building
have
consistently
raised
the
issues
of
concern
to
government
we're
going
to
have
a
debate
this
week?
What
is
a
government
agency
going
to
do
that's
going
to
be
harder
and
different
to
what
MSP
is
current
leadership
I.
O
Mean
the
key
to
remember
it
is
consumer.
Scotland
is
not
going
to
be
a
government
agency
any
more
than
citizens
of
high
Scotland
is
not
a
government
agency.
It's
your
agency.
It's
going
to
be
accountable
to
the
Parliament,
not
to
the
government
and
I.
I
am
always
always
in
the
world.
Adore
Jackie,
Bailey's,
tenacity
bar
for
the
people
of
John,
Barton
and
I
would
never
convene
that
be
so
brave
or
foolish
to
say
that
anybody
could
work
as
hard
as
Jackie
Bailey.