Token Engineering Commons Communications Working Group, 22 Dec 2020

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From YouTube: W10 Comms WG: Spanish translation, legal process to be a hatcher and more!

Description

Timecodes:
00:00 - What you will look forward next week? And what is your favorite chirstmas movie?
10:50 - Translating into Spanish
16:00 - Help Jess! :p
28:00 - Dandelion/Conviction voting there is a lot of documentation so we can google it
39:22 - Approach communication how hatch its going to happen
42:04 - We need an explanation of what trusted seed is
45:25 - Santi explains the legal process to be a hatcher
50:40 - Feedback and Closing round

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A

Let's go with what are you looking forward to most in the next week and favorite christmas movie? I am looking forward to most starting thursday to do absolutely nothing but stay in my pajamas and watch movies all day and eat a lot of popcorn and favorite christmas movie. It's kind of a tough call, I'd say national lampoon's christmas vacation is probably my number one, but bad santa's pretty high up there too, and I will pass to mateo.

B

Hey guys, how are you um well for christmas this week? I'm excited for spending time with my family, I'm going to be cooking with them. So that's really fun! That's like the tradition, so I'm really looking forward to that and for my christmas movie, I'd say home alone, because I guess that's the only movie I watch every december with no exception. I think that's a tradition for for our latin americans, home alone, my poor angelito is called in spanish.

B

My my poor angel is badly translated. So.

C

B

I think that's the one that go with and I'll pass it to.

D

Tonga, I am very worried because I have to present in.

E

D

But it's okay, um yeah.

C

I was laughing because of.

D

The faces that they makes are so funny.

D

B

D

Have much more to say, I don't know who wants to talk.

D

A

Take it away jake.

F

Okay, uh yeah: well, I'm pretty excited about seeing my kids, I'm really excited about a few presents. I'm gonna give them uh christmas movie. You know uh my house always watched a christmas story. You'll shoot your eye out. That was always pretty big. um I really enjoyed that. I honestly do. I am one of those people that think die. Hard is a christmas movie, so I'm probably gonna pick die harder. It's totally a christmas movie.

F

uh And I'll give it to olivia.

C

uh Christmas movie is such a tough one, I'm I'm not! I I just sit down and watch whatever is playing, because I'm never the one to put a christmas movie, but then the other day there was uh the elf going on and I don't really like will ferrell, but that was a really good one like I couldn't stop watching and I lost a lot. So that was good.

C

um What am I excited about? I feel a bit anxious I'll I'll show you guys my situation. There is like all of this in the floor. There's things I need to pack on to go to brazil and it feels like a nightmare.

C

So I'm excited to have time to do that and just have fun with family and eat a lot of goodies and and I'll pass. Two zacktimus.

G

Thanks libby yeah same as everyone, I'm excited to see my family. uh We, we usually don't watch films on on christmas. I think it's better like to spend the time with the people, because then they are going everyone to their house, so yeah, it's cool to yeah, it's cool to stay together and yeah yeah, I'm very I'm pretty excited for that. It's always fun.

H

uh Well, this is definitely gonna.

E

Be a different christmas.

H

Because of lockdown, so one thing I'm gonna love is not having to go shopping. I hate shopping, especially on christmas. I just hate it so luckily I won't. I won't have to that's one thing I'm gonna like and for rest, just relax a little bit for a few days and movies. I don't watch too many movies lately, but there's two things I like watching for christmas: they are always on tv. One is the sky jumps? There's these four four uh jumps competition during christmas time.

H

One is in switzerland, another one is so two of them are in austria. They always play them on tv, ski jump and and the other one is the new year's concert from vienna. I love watching that concert of classical music every so I'll pass it to uh chris hello, hello,.

I

um What are we, what are we sharing in addition to our intentions today,.

A

What are you looking forward to for the holidays and what is your favorite christmas, hanukkah or other holiday mook festivus movie.

I

Oh movie, oh yeah, I don't really watch the christmas movies. To be honest, I'm not a I'm, not a big christmas movie watcher, but uh I am looking forward to potentially having some uh of our family's traditional uh heritage dishes. So um our family is mostly norwegian, so we'll have some lefse and some maybe some lutefisk as well.

I

So that would be good but yeah, looking forward to just kind of seeing some family, whether that's virtually or in person yeah. That's uh yeah, I'm not sure who has gone um yet because I just got here so I'll pass back to jess to pass.

A

I will pass to craig.

J

Thanks jess um holidays, yeah, family time and um some skiing definitely um and yeah christmas movies. You guys have hit my top five. I think christmas vacation christmas story die are definitely a christmas movie and uh elf is uh sort of a newer classic. If you have kids, you probably know that um maybe dan hasn't gone.

J

A

Are you with us dan? He sometimes has been having some internet issues. Maybe he didn't go into the co-working space today? Okay! Well, while dan comes back or gives us a signal, let's pass the tamara.

K

I'm so glad nobody said my movie, um so it's also cultural, but it's not american culture. It's italian culture and we spent a lot of christmases in rome because my children's grandparents are italian and every um every christmas they play trading places with eddie murphy and dan aykroyd, and it's like the italian christmas movie and it's really become, like my special like I have such joy in washing it every christmas that even now, when we're here in france, we still watch it for christmas.

K

I really love that movie, it's a great film and uh what I'm looking forward to I mean there's so many things, but really like children, opening presents and christmas day like early in the morning can't be beat. So that's that's mine and um dan. If you can uh hear us and you can speak uh you're up otherwise passing back to.

A

Jessica, okay, maybe he'll come in later um so yeah. I also I'm going to share a screen real, quick, because jake mentioned his kids and he sent us a picture. The other day. Aren't these the cutest little booths ever jake. You made some really really nice, beautiful babies.

A

I just had to share.

F

L

A

They're super cute. I hope you enjoyed the time with them and yeah. I should have said too, I'm really looking forward to giving gifts. I I don't really feel like. I need anything or like when people ask me what I want. So I'm looking forward to like to giving them.

A

Okay, oh yeah, and I forgot one thing: um chris, you were saying lefsa and something else. So I searched online. This left us like a sweet and then the other one is like fish or what was it? Yeah.

I

It's a it's a fish, yeah.

A

What's it called.

I

uh Yeah l-u-t-e-f-I some people call it fish and some call it fisk, so I-f-I-s-k or s-h.

F

Like okay and like towards montana, it's really norwegian and german and lunafisk is like a staple, and it's like that. You go to church and there's these giant dishes of lutefisk.

A

Okay, interesting.

I

It may be an acquired taste, but.

A

Okay, super fishy, there all right, very cool wow. What a diverse array of traditions- thanks everybody for sharing. um Where should we start? Okay, there's lots in the agenda. I don't know if you guys can access the notes I shared in the main, tc general channel. I guess I was to go from like quickest to longest discussions. So the first thing that I think will be easy to decide on is um mateo.

A

I don't know if you wanted to briefly share, or there was discussion around translating some things into spanish, because I was digging through some of the stakeholder research the other day, and I found that zeptimus had actually translated our onboarding guide and no one even knew it, because there's so much you know stuff.

A

I think during that point there was a lot flying, so we want to resurface that give it some love and then maybe mateo said he's willing, which is amazing, to come and translate some materials, so just want to sink on that really quick of I'm not sure who wants to mateo.

A

If you want to lead that and then get some feedback from livy, maybe around which documents we should prioritize and then we can try to see how we can realistically like work that into the flow, um and you know, obviously our bandwidth is like so so for like discord, maybe or other things, but we do have that intention that we want to start on this. So what do you guys think is the best way to move forward.

B

Yeah, I came up with the idea, and I heard you say that in the community call last week um it came up from the meetup that we had with sam here in colombia uh two weeks ago, so I think there will be a great reception if we have more content in spanish and also because a big percentage of our community here is actually from latin or or from spain.

B

Actually, so I think it makes sense to to have it and we have people to give great feedback to make a good content in in the language so yeah. I think that's the best way. Maybe if libya can give me like these punctual articles or or content can uh is more priority uh has more priority. I will begin with those, and I don't know if anyone can help as well.

B

We can sync up on that.

A

Jake, did you have an idea well.

F

I just think now that I'm back home in costa rica um as far as onboarding, I mean any resources to towards this. If I can, actually, you know, locate and resource other people here, that would be really really cool um because me espanola's melo.

F

So I would really really appreciate that that would be really cool.

C

Okay, great so maybe yeah sorry libby go ahead. No, that's that's so awesome. I think uh the easier documents for someone to have like a comprehensive idea would be the the medium posts right, the one that explains everything and then it's always just like bursts of a lot of information and then we can slowly start integrating some meetings and calls because I don't think it makes sense to like translate everything if we're not having meetings in spanish but then slowly having more people informed about the bigger picture, we can start introducing that and.

A

Awesome that sounds good, so maybe there'll be like a little sub group who starts to take on like the discussions around um yeah. The best way forwards to uh start to translate things, and even I would suggest like maybe even some of the common stack articles with the mo like the high level narratives about like cyber physical comments, or maybe just one or two to start like yeah, focusing on tec, but I think, like conceptually. This is really important in framing the context, so just an idea, but you guys go for it.

A

Let me know if I can support um mateo. Are there any other questions you wanted to ask around that initiative.

G

If you in any time feel you need help, I'm here to help yeah.

B

Thank you, seth.

A

So wonderful, thank you so much mateo for reaching out about that and welcome to nate and jeff and griff we just jumped in um we are. We were just discussing. Mateo had volunteered to help to translate materials in spanish, because a lot of our community is spanish and nate. Are you new to the community.

E

Yep just drop it in oh.

A

Well, awesome you're, most welcome um and happy to catch you up and a community steward can reach out to you in the next day to talk a little bit about what the token engineering commons is doing and if you have any questions, but this is the communications working group, so we're focusing on you know: high-level, narratives and and discussing communication, so welcome to your feedback and listening thanks for joining. So uh we have a lot still more to talk about here.

A

I just wanted to give matteo that space because he was asking me um the next discussion topic I put on the agenda was I'm kind of asking for help. um I had a discussion this morning with jeff, actually just like helping me to improve my workflow and be able to focus more on the high level narratives and some of these really important photographers coming up. So he suggested you know the framing of like the coms working group as kind of an aggregator. So lately I feel like I've been spending. Some time is: oh can craig.

A

Do you mind muting.

A

I don't know maybe he left his computer, that's okay, but yeah. I feel like I've. It's been a little challenging for me to keep up, there's so much happening in the working groups. So maybe it's a discussion for the stewards meeting tomorrow, but having like a kind of aggregator or if other working groups could kind of report to comms with like a little digest or highlights of. What's happened. That's like really really important for comms to know.

A

So I don't know if that's going to be like a google document or if we can just shape our existing like tec thursday weekly call agenda to do that, but I'm just feeling like I could use help in keeping up um and understanding like what's happening in the working groups and like the working groups kind of seeing themselves as also communicators.

A

um So I'm just asking for help from like all the different working groups and there's a few people like jake. You always come to me like there's a few people who kind of chase me down. um So I guess it's like a community effort of putting the question out of how.

A

How um can we aggregate information in a little better way? So if anybody had any ideas- or we could also talk about- because it's kind of a stewards thing because it's like involves all the working group leaders, but if anybody had any ideas, I'm super open and happy to hearing how I can do a better job um and maybe some ideas around how we can aggregate all this information in a better way. Besides the news blog and what we're already doing and just give like a couple of minutes space here.

A

If anybody has any ideas like how can we do a better job of aggregating information um about what's happening, jake yeah, sorry feel free to speak.

F

One thing I think before we you know this is something I've just noticed on. My own, too, is we're all over the place, whether it's discord telegram, we don't have. I mean I, we need to have all these channels. I understand that, but we need to focus on one specific for what we're. Actually you know as the whole and what we need to discuss. What's important.

F

You know, so we have a clear line of communication, um whether that's discord, you know I mean or the new discord on what we're doing there when that gets set up, but I know that's all a work in progress and he's doing really well, um but that would if we have that established and then I think it'd be a lot easier to be like okay, now in this channel now we specify all these working groups, if that makes sense.

A

So yeah, like maybe just more focused internal communications septimus, you had something.

G

Maybe having one channel specific to have like all the important things but like not to discuss in there, like just, uh for example, one person who is in church or whatever is posting like the important things, but keep that room clean, like only with the important things like there is there that every working group is doing like the big uh big picture topics there on this channel. Only for that.

K

Yeah, just I want to support what zeptimus and jake were saying, maybe there's a discord channel. That's like working group announcements and that's where you drop that. But I also really like the idea of like adding to the to the stewards agenda like what does comms need to know. You know so that every week, everyone's thinking to bring what comes needs to know to that to that meeting. So maybe those two things.

E

Yeah and the idea behind this was just to free up more time from you know, jess as comms having to be in every call and up to date on every working group and what's going on in each group, because that alone is a job, let alone reformulating that and then putting it as external columns about what all these things are doing. So if there could be some yeah channel.

B

E

um Like sprint, uh digest of the most relevant external communication um impacts from each working group, that would that would probably ease the calm side of things. So we can focus more on the pushing that external to the community rather than running around inside and trying to keep up with all of the work that everyone is doing, which is so fantastic.

H

Sorry jess, I I think, there's a there's two approaches to this question. From my perspective, uh one is letting everyone know what's going on in the groups and- and that's that's great and and I agree that we need to help jess. She doesn't have to be the one leaning into the information and we, as stewards have to you, know, pass that information to her. But on the other side, there's what do we want people to uh to get involved in?

H

At a specific time like, for instance, when we are approaching the hatching phase, what we will want is to communicate about joining the association and becoming a hatchery, and- and we don't want to somehow this- this uh get get the attention into other areas, although that information should be somewhere where they can check.

H

So I I I think it's like the medium in the medium. You just don't get a bunch of information. You just get what the post, which are managed by jess, uh say, and that's that's the the one information we want to communicate when we post something in the media channel.

H

I think we should have it's it's like a different coming. It's a different kind of information. Okay, I would say what you're mentioning jazz is probably from people already joining.

H

They want to take a quick look at what's going on in every single group you know, and if they want to join, they can go to the meetings to get more information and dig into them, but then there's the channel where we want uh people to take a look where we want to post what we want the community to really uh impact okay to really don't don't miss all right, and this is going on next week- be sure you check this all right.

H

So I think there's two channels or two kind of informations that which you we should take, take care of.

C

I think, based on what centi said, we could perhaps have both in one using the working groups channel on the forum that I finished with all the working groups information. So we can have the first post linked to the welcome section and then every time someone new enters. They would always come to the first one with the clean documents and the basic information about each working group.

C

And then we can each steward could update each working group every week after the calls and that's the place where you look into and everyone who wants to be like up-to-date looks into.

A

Awesome, I love that I just sometimes there's so many pieces. I forget, you know we have that now, because you're just building that so yeah and that's a good segue actually and thank you so much everybody. This is all really helpful feedback to understand how we can improve this like internal communications and and all these different reflections are really helpful.

A

um I like yeah. This is great, so I'm just going to show what libby's talking about and thanks for reminding me um this is gonna, be a good segue for our next topic.

A

Actually so, finally um eduardo- and I wrapped this welcome to the tec, which is like our now, our new onboarding everything in one place and my screen looks different because I'm an admin- he uh is reordering this, but I think he's gonna finish today like reordering it, but this is everything everybody needs to know at least the first iteration- and I super appreciate everybody who contributed to this um craig and livy did a lot of heavy lifting durgados um santi.

A

I think some also things there were some people too, that just did stuff were just angels that just came and craig had filled out all this glossary term. So that was fantastic, so this is done so that will help a lot to start with.

A

You know anybody who wants to know what is the tc if they come here, they can get kind of the high level understanding of what's going on and then libby built this working group section, which is telling more deeply so in this section oops we have how to join and contribute, and here we've uh listed out, we have this cute little photo how to contribute and listed out all the working groups, and then um she is gonna link to their new section to go a little deeper about like the manifestos and yeah.

A

That would be great if everybody can kind of aggregate there. So that solves that, and then the next topic and kind of segway is so there's this proposal section and we need a little sense making around terms and what to name things so livia has suggested. We have basically three types of decisions that are going to be made, there's conviction, voting and like the project proposals which people are submitting for funding and also technically we have signaling.

A

So we have conviction, funding, conviction, signaling, but that can all go under the subcategory of conviction, voting and then there's dandelion voting, which is the dow parameters so like exit tribute- and um you know- reserve ratio whatever- um and I have some questions for griff actually related to that. But for now just concerning the naming dandelion voting are people gonna understand what that is.

A

Should we call it something else, and then the third part is kind of like community polling or community voting, and an example of that is like smaller decisions that we don't need to use conviction. Voting for um that will be, for example, we we voted to move our vote to the forum. So uh libby did we can do these polls. um You can create polls on the forum, so we decided that's how we're gonna handle this kind of smaller decisions.

A

So the first question is around naming. So do you all like the idea of conviction because terms are really important? You know, so we all are referring to the same things so conviction voting, dandelion voting and community polling.

A

Do you have any feedback around this naming and the good part is we have the about section that we can explain what it is so dandelion voting? If we decide to call it that we can explain what it is. Do you have any strong feelings about these terms or we don't have to spend too long, but the naming is important.

M

I I would say for dandelion voting, there's um there's a lot of documentation around the dandelion voting, app that's available. So if we maintain that name, then people will be able to google it and find that data same with conviction voting. But I think it's a little too hard to change that name. However, at least for our deployment strategy. I've been moving towards this concept of a tec hatchdown which has dandelion voting in it so like, but we don't have to talk about that.

M

Necessarily it's just there's the tec hatchdown and we need to vote on the commons upgrade uh and those being the the names for the two phases. The commons upgrade gets to get away from us having to talk about augmented, bonding curve and conviction. Voting and just just explains el we're upgrading to a comments.

A

Okay, that's really helpful to hear from you, and also I wanted to talk about these other two terms, but um also griff. What are your thoughts around? This is specifically referring to this um proposals section on the forum splitting it into three subcategories of governance.

A

um Do you have any thoughts around those three names, or do you like that conviction, voting, dandelion voting and community voting or community polling.

E

Yeah I had a quick go ahead. I had a question for you, griff or or anyone who has more information, I'm curious if the dandelion voting or the tec hatched out is this kind of a one-time like we have to decide these parameters, we have to vote on them, but is this an ongoing governance process in the tec like? Are there things that are continually governed on the dandelion voting side, or is that just sort of like we have to decide this for the hatch?

E

And then we that's, not a governance thing that we have to come back to over and over in the tec.

M

So in the when we do, the commons upgrade we'll have to decide how many instances of dandelion voting there are and what which parameters they control so eventually effectively. Yes, there is going to be continual dandelion voting, uh but it's going to be pretty rare. So, like it'll, be like oh hey, we should. I think we should raise the exit tribute from 10 to 12 and there will be a dandelion voting application in our dow. That will have a specific support required and a specific forum required to change that parameter.

M

But it's going to be rare that those things get proposed, but that I do expect. I would expect them to happen. uh The big one there is that big one vote for the hatch style. That's basically all the hatch dial has to do uh and for that there's it'll only happen once.

E

Gotcha, um can you are there any other parameters that are top of mind? Exit tribute, for example, are there is there a quick list that you can just shoot off? I'm just taking a couple notes here.

M

Yeah exit tribute and retribute are probably the ones that will be most commonly used. uh There's also like there. There will be a multi-sig by gravity that you know the dandelion voting app is a check on a lot of our centralizing decisions that might come up like, for instance, grab there'll, be a gravity multisig that can remove conviction, voting proposals if they don't follow our terms of service so like uh changing.

M

These, like special roles, is a very is a very important dandelion voting application, voting application uh role, other ones you know, there's there's a yeah and there's the multi-stick that tonga is really concerned about. That could probably pause the the bonding curve which, which I'm glad I'm sorry to call you out talk about. I'm very happy that you're concerned about it, um because it is really important uh and.

F

M

Vote vote, duration, well, yeah in dandelion, dallas settings itself, so like um yeah, it can change its vote. Duration for the I think uh there might be some like the probably the biggest thing is god mode, which is like being able to upgrade the conviction, voting app completely or being able to upgrade the bonding curve app completely um yeah. I mean.

H

M

H

Conviction, borrowing parameters will be able to be modified through dandelion.

M

Yep I mean that there's basically, you know there's going to be at least two instances of dandelion voting the instance that has a very high support required and probably a decent quorum for uh you know, god mode type, things which are changing the bonding curve or conviction, voting parameters that are key to you know how those things move or even upgrading, to a new application like what, if we want to upgrade conviction, voting to be like quadratic conviction voting.

M

You know or something like that.

E

M

E

So it's almost like the the meta dao or like hyper or, and maybe a new term isn't what's needed, but it's almost like the um I like that term, like god mode. If we want to do infrastructural adjustments to the commons, this is kind of like the community decided back door to changing those things that we have to come to some quorum on um making big changes, but that kind of exists so that we can do these kinds of large scale updates in the future.

M

Exactly I I pretty much, in my opinion, the the big ones that will be used. A lot are just like tweaking the tributes and beyond that it'll just be like when the devs are like. Oh there's, this big upgrade to conviction voting and it's safe to upgrade. Let's do it then there'll be like big boats.

A

And what is the second multi-sig you? I had the same questions actually thank you. This is really helpful for understanding when we start to dive into explaining how this is all going to go down. What is this other multi-sit? There's the gravity multisig and there's a second multi-stick, the one that tonga is concerned about. What is the story on that? One.

M

Yeah, so actually two two groups who have had bonding curves have recently frozen their bonding curve, which is wild, dx, dow froze their bonding curve and uh and anja froze their bonding curves, but they both froze them for political reasons, and I doubt most people who are participating understood that those spawning curves could be frozen. You know and uh and in fact the anj community is pretty pissed about it.

M

uh So uh that is not the purpose of this multi-sig uh to do those kind of political freezing, but it's more, I would imagine that we would want some sort of, like you know, one or two of many multi-sig that can freeze the whole system and pause the bombing curve for security reasons. If some white hat is like yo, I found a bug. You know it's my santa white hat.

M

I have a lot of friends that wear these white hats and they uh they're really nice ethereum people who, like find all these great bugs and then they're like. Oh hey, guess what I can steal all the money out of your bonding curve. It's like oh, really, cool. Well, let's freeze the body curve and then thanks for telling us you know and then we'll explain why this security feature had to be used.

M

um But I think it's important that these multi-sigs and these roles get heavily discussed in our forum and we have cultural understandings on why those things can those powers can be used and uh not for maybe whether or not it's for political reasons, that's one thing, but the either way the dandelion voting app will be able to unfreeze the bonding curve.

M

And you know this multi-sig would not be able to take any money or anything like that. uh That's that's the main one. It's just that bonding curve and the smart contracts most of the smart contracts that we're using have never really been audited, uh like they're, very complex, and it's not safe to play. Without that safety, net of uh white hat alert.

E

Cool yeah: this is giving me a lot of a lot of context because essentially, what we're doing- and it's it's quite difficult- is we're defining polycentric governance forms. You know different. Some are one token one vote. Some are one person one vote. Some are you know more um like for executive functions or um you know people who are providing kind of that higher level um like guardian role for the dao. um So I think this is um yeah.

E

This is helping to pull together kind of a more cohesive picture and I think that's how we can communicate it as well. Is that you know we have multiple different governance forms and multiple different checks and balances on uh what this doug upgraded and then we can just communicate this. As um you know, a polycentric governance system- um and these are all the different aspects of it um and I think yeah this is.

E

This- is providing a lot of clarity, and I've got a bunch of notes here that I'll definitely um go over with jess and see if we can wrangle into um yeah something a little bit more comprehensive about. All of this.

A

But yeah and I think in general- oh go ahead.

M

I just want to say that the the j it'll be a lot easier to understand when we have this complete test hatch and upgrade done through uh through the app because then we'll have the finalized code base and we can actually create a reference specification that everyone can look at what the various you know. Governance roles are that are being considered and what what powers they have and what parameters are being governed and it'll, be all in one place. But it's all blocked by uh the garden swarms uh test hatching and commons upgrade sorry jess.

A

No, that's! Okay, thanks for explaining explaining- and I probably still have a few detailed questions um that I'll bring up with you when I start to write about it, but I guess the aspect is um and it's good to know what you're saying, but also I do feel like getting ahead of this a little bit and that's what I'm doing. I guess next as I as we approach like communicating around like what is the hatch and how it's gonna happen.

A

I think a big portion of this is governance and, like the super surface layer scratching, the surface was like how do we divide the proposal section in the forum and name things, but this actually is like so deep, this well of explaining and communicating about the governance. So we can start like very simply, that's what I'm trying to do like go from most simple to most complex is starting with okay. We have these three sections and subcategories that libby is suggesting on our proposal, so it starts to like get clear like okay.

A

This is how we're doing these very basic three governance layers, um and then we can build into this like deeper narrative of all the parameters, and you know- and yes, we, we have been deep, diving thanks to jake like so thoroughly on the parameters, but I think that's the very techie a narrative of like what is the percentage, and you know now. We need the more social and cultural angle is: what does this mean for governance and what are these layers of governance, so maybe olivia yeah.

A

We can work together on starting to like at least draft parts of that, because I think it is going to be a big work to explain everything. So, even if we start to get this in like drafting this out, you had something olivia to thoughts or.

C

Yeah, I I I feel like the the way they could be explained in one sentence. Each is that dandelion makes changes in the contract level. Conviction voting uh is allocating funds and the forum is making cultural agreements.

A

Awesome yeah, I just want to mention one more thing: jake and maybe have some feedback on this as well is you know we also have. We all are focused on funding proposals, but um we also agree: is it still the plan to leave in conviction signaling for lack of a better term yeah out?

A

So maybe we also could discuss libby and softgov. How do we want to use this mechanism? Because I think also this is very unexplored, like even in one hive, they only they have the abstain proposal, but I have only seen one or two signaling proposals and we don't need conviction voting on everything, but maybe we graduate some of the community polling could be graduated to conviction signaling. So maybe we can discuss and get some more collective feedback on in a software meeting. Okay, awesome and jake.

A

F

No, that's! Okay, all right! I just uh I've been thinking about this for quite a while, because of how much I've been in the tech, params and and the forum um we're all c-stack token holders right, we're part of the trusted seat. Everything we're talking about hinges on that.

F

There isn't anything about explaining what that is in a manner, that's clear for anyone outside of this community. Everything we're doing hinders on the trusted seat, because that's what we're doing differently and there isn't anything anywhere. That's like clear about what makes a trusted seat so if the bigger brighter minds would like, I would really appreciate on the forum, because this should be right by your proposal or right by what is the tec.

F

What is the trusted seat? You know what are the people we're trying to get and just just that's it and just concentrate kind of a little bit more on that, because I mean otherwise, what's the point about talking about all of this when we're really just talking to each other. Does that make sense.

A

Definitely and that's a great segue to our next point for discussion, which is um so all of this um so yeah, the governance is another deeper discussion and since we only have 15 minutes left and still a bit to talk about, um we can so the governance thanks griff for explaining I'm we're. Definitely gonna have a lot more questions for you and olivia. We can break out the governance um discussions, but thank you for those awesome one-liners that we will can employ and then yeah.

A

So this is kind of the next topic is a lot of comms or the narrative has been blocked by the legal discussions and how the c-stack token is going to come into play, so the legal working group and santi, maybe it would be great for you to give just like one or two minutes, but um I think this is the news that has not really been communicated, except for to the stewards.

A

This morning we had a discussion um with the common stack on the common stack side, and so basically the framing is from the comms perspective. The framing is the legal working group is making a recommendation to the tec as an open, independent community that has open governance, he's making a recommendation to use the trusted seed as like, almost like trusted seed as a service, so to to use the trusted seed to hatch the comments.

A

But we need to hold a vote, so the legal working group is coming and making a recommendation because we can't unilaterally decide for the whole community, although we are still making up the governance as we go along. But you know the thought is we vote on this that the tec, as an independent community, decides that they want to take the legal working group's highest recommendation, um which is to use the swiss foundation, because that offers the best legal protection? Without this there is no other option. Without this we don't really hatch in the foreseeable future.

A

So it's kind of a no-brainer vote, but it's still important that we open it for this governance. So santi did you want to give a couple of minutes. Just reflection- and I know griff has asked you to write a forum post, um yeah.

H

Sure I started writing that yesterday. I also gave access to grave and you should have access to so you can guys click it. Basically, what we're gonna explain is the process that we, we think is the best way to move forward from a legal perspective and that's basically what everyone should go through in order to become a tec, hatcher and- and that is first become a member of the of the trusted city and that's done through the application that you can find on the common stack association, web page or common stack.

H

The comments stack webpage, that's a type form that you fill in and that information is reviewed by people from the common stack. They check who you are. If we don't know you already, which is going to be most of the cases, but if, if it's someone we don't know about, they check uh your. You know your social media information, they they go and dig a little bit.

H

They ask whoever may know you who you are, if you're aligned with the token engineering commons purpose, because we don't want uh speculators here, we don't want people not aligned with our values.

H

Once you're admitted, if you're not admitted you're out, basically once you're admitted, then you are invited to become a member of the commons stack association, which is a legal association based in switzerland and that's a process that you will have to go through an app that will be uh it's almost ready. You will just go through that app uh hook your wallet and sign the terms to become a member of the association and make a donation.

H

We will suggest an amount you could. You will be able to go with the minimum amount of one that we will suggest a bigger amount, especially from people. That's not been working uh on. That's not part of the uh of the you know group pushing the uh the community from the beginning and then you will be a member and you will be ready to become a hatcher if you wish to do so.

H

Unless you go through that process, you won't be able to become a hatcher. Even if you have impact hours you will have to become a member of the association, and that's that's the that's. Basically to give you protection you will. You will have a shield from the association that will cover up to 10 000 k per person or per member, and that's that's the best thing we we have figured out that we could.

H

uh We could deal with uh with this, of course, that one won't be a legal entity at all, uh but you know somehow: we think that uh we feel more comfortable if we, if we give this extra level of protection to all the members, that's that's going to be posted quite soon after you guys review it, and we will of course have a poll to vote it, and if everything goes fine, we should have those steps ready in the next days or at most one or two weeks at most.

H

So we can start people enrolling people as as a member of the association who want to become a hatchery.

A

So yeah, thank you so much santi that was awesome, perfect and yeah, so jake that was the main blocker and why we don't have that information publicly available is because we were waiting on that, which kind of just came last week to a final decision and then now they're working on the post and that vote will be open until we decided january 7 because of the holiday to leave it open.

A

um So so yeah, hopefully that's more clear and then that will be the kind of main um and that we'll we'll maybe do another post, and actually I got some feedback from angela yesterday, who also had concerns and I'll I'll share with you santi, because I think this is important um and I don't know if this will be covered in the terms and the dap is like how is the board elected? What are the rights of the board and making sure you know people are going to have questions about?

A

Does this board have decision making powers over the tec, for example? So I have kind of a list of questions that I'll forward to you, santi um that we need to either. I kind of need to figure out if this is addressed in the dap. In the token.

C

Debt or if it's.

M

Separate there's.

A

M

There's this thing called the statutes of the association, and everyone is required to sign the statutes that I believe have all those answers on boarding off boarding the board. The one thing it doesn't say explicitly that the terms in the hatch application will say explicitly- and we were working on in the last legal group- is that the common stack has nothing to do with the tec directly and has no power over the tec, and everyone is acting as an individual when the tac is created as the hatch in the hatched out the tec hatch down.

A

Okay, great and yeah, we only have seven minutes left. So I see nate that looks like you have a question and I would like to address that, but just to say for the last seven minutes, I would really love to hear some feedback on hearing all of this discussion.

A

What is most important to keep in mind about the tec narrative for the hatch or what do we need to communicate? You know we obviously have a big feat with the hatch itself and governance um and we have a bit of a narrative around. You know the becoming a hatcher.

A

So nate did you have a question and then, if anybody else had any like closing round thoughts- and we can dedicate some more time to this on our next meeting on january 5th, but.

L

uh No honestly, you can wait till the legal tec I'll keep it comms oriented here.

A

Thank you and yeah feel free to reach out to santi. um If you have legal working group questions, but did anybody have some thoughts around the general narratives of these items, the hatch governance and becoming a hatchet.

M

I I think we really need just the one-liner of what the tec is trying to do like the tec is cr. Public goods are good and te public goods are better. You know, or something like that and have like one line and that that can just be spammed everywhere.

M

You want a meme, you want, you want the perfect being mean governance by memes.

A

Yeah I had a I had a meeting scheduled with durgados today to just allocate time, because I haven't had the time and space as I'm trying to cram out a bunch of stuff but griff. This is number one priority durgados and I he had a conflict, so we rescheduled to january 5th the first week in january. This is my sole focus, but I'm trying to cram out some deliverables before that, but I hear you and we need this and jake. Maybe I would like to invite you to that discussion.

A

Anybody else who wants to work on the kind of high level narrative. I had some thoughts in the shower the other day, so um I started writing some stuff down. It's where I get all my best ideas, um so yeah any other thoughts um out of all these topics, any sharing or what's important and explaining these things to the community blind spots.

F

Is it? Is it really too much to ask for some kind of manifesto? Like I mean really like you know, I mean the one line thing is I get it, but it would be really cool if we had something more about what is the trusted seed? I mean yeah, the legal thing I get that, but I kind of would appreciate. Maybe just maybe this is just me. Maybe I just would like a a more philosophic.

F

M

I will say there are two blog posts on the trusted seed on the common stack blog, and I did this uh nice video, basically where I rant for an hour about the trusted seed in some random call with some slides and stuff. So I can definitely send you the slides and that content, and maybe we can put something up.

A

Yeah and jake I'm open to your brainstorming, I'm not quite sure what you're seeking and maybe it's just because I'm so deep in the wormhole. But I see what you're saying like about a kind of high level. I mean we have the mission and the vision, but maybe something else so yeah, I'm open, maybe have a think over the break and if anything, if you're inspired like write me or just start a doc, and we can all, you know, submit ideas. What's that.

C

I have a feeling that we are very uh modular and- and maybe what is missing is just like a macro and a micro perspective at the same time like something that we can look like. Maybe this one liner is uh the title of the macro perspective and then, if you zoom in you can see all of the fractal pieces that are part of this.

C

So maybe, if we had a visual of like having that uh in and out perspective would make people understand like what are all of the moving pieces that make this a thing.

A

Would you give an example of, I guess, I'm trying to understand micro and macro perspective?

A

What form would it you mean like a specific form, like a blog on what we're doing again like update to the kickoff article, or you mean like a one-liner or.

E

For me, I don't know if I'm just a visual thinker, visual learner, visual communicator, I'm kind of seeing what you mean libby and like a mural board, almost like where you can zoom out, and you can see like the tec and like the high level stuff and then you can zoom in on you know a specific area that may be legal or a specific area that may be our deployment rollout or a specific area. That's like our different types of governance.

E

um Actually, that kind of gave me some thoughts and I've been working in the miro board that tam opened up for us yesterday. So I'm gonna put some early thoughts in there.

E

I'm not gonna focus too much attention on it, but if you find it useful, um I can share with jess, and maybe she can bring it back to the group if there's anything useful in there, because I find for me like words after a while, there are so many words and we if we deliver another manifesto, it's just more words and I feel like a meme or like a visual where you can like zoom in and then understand.

E

Okay, cool: there are different working groups working on different aspects of this, but there's a larger picture that often kind of gets um lost. I think in the modularity. If that's what, if that's what you mean by that.

A

Okay, cool well we're at the top of the hour and we're gonna run into olivia's meeting. So thank you so much this was, I think, the best meeting of the year so far, this felt really good. For me, I felt like a bit like so many questions and stuck, and so this is really great to kind of come to some consensus and moving forward and get really clear about what needs to be communicated. So thank you and yeah.

A

um Jeff can start to draw and then hopefully we can um turn that into something more visual, so yeah and jake. Thanks for by the way, all the help on the design stuff lately- and you can help us as well with visuals, I think, would be great and zeptimus thinks he's putting a cool by the way little logo burned into all the videos from now on and the live streams, so that'll be really cool.

A

um Yes, thank you appreciate everybody's uh feedback and inputs and have a beautiful holiday and we'll see you january 5th for the next comms meeting, and you can refer to the calendar if you're wondering if something's, canceled and griff is still hosting a meeting this thursday. So anybody's ronery see you there and.

M

Yeah we're gonna, we're gonna beat kagatiyo, you don't know what that is. Oh, get ready.

A

All righty see you guys in softcup.