►
Description
Timecodes
00:00 - Intentions and distractions
03:11 - January launch
15:08 - Marina asks about a document with all the details
16:33 - Santi asks about liquidity issues
21:13 - When are we going to be ready to vote?
23:40 - Marina mentions some issues we might have related to ICO's
25:13 - Round of brainstorm
48:38 - Anja asks about multisig
55:06 - Final words
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A
My
as
I
was
telling
you.
My
intention
today
is
to
deeply
discuss
on
top
of
upgrading
you
on
what's
going
on
on
the
group,
but
deeply
discuss
on
on
the
legal
implications
of
the
latest
changes
on
on
the
development,
and
I
don't
have
any
distractions
for
for
the
rest
of
the
meeting,
so
I
will
pass
it
to
marina.
B
C
D
E
A
F
Intentions
are
to
take
what
we
got
from
the
risk
document,
and
so
I
try
to
come
up
with
a
short
list
of
documents
or
terms
and
conditions.
Because
from
what
I
understand,
the
soft
governance
working
group,
they
have
a
deadline
of
early
december
to
sort
of
start
talking
about
their
launch
of
the
hatch
and
they
want
some
supporting
documentation
just
at
least
show
people.
What
expectations
are.
E
A
A
C
Yeah
yeah,
I
think
that
that's
that's
going
to
be
the
idea.
We
think
that
we
could
do
that
on
on
december
still,
but
probably
the
the
other
groups,
for
example,
on
boarding
good
referrals
on
january.
We
are
and
we
from
the
tech
part.
We
probably
also
want
to
move
it
down
slightly
to
have
more
time
to
review
the
contracts
and
and
all
that
stuff.
A
A
So,
just
before
last
week,
the
intention
was
to
launch
everything
together.
All
the
parts
of
the
of
the
system
together
and
the
idea
and
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong
same,
was
that
when
we
would
have
the
hatching
phase
right
away
after
any
hatchery
or
any
investor
would
put
their
money
in,
it
will
go
to
the
bonding
curve
and
the
bonding
curve.
After
we
all
decided
what
would
be
the
split
between
the
funding
bolt
and
the
bonding
reserve,
the
the
the
money
would
be
going
to
those
two
bolts
and
so
right
away.
F
A
A
A
A
So
all
the
all
the
price
increased
parameters
will
be
decided
voting
from
the
data
so
after
after
these
changes
take
place,
we
consider
that
from
the
legal
aspect,
that's
making
things
or
somehow
that's
yeah,
that's
making
things
easier
in
in
in
terms
of
responsibility,
because
we
are
not
promising
you.
Any
price
increase
of
your
value
increases
of
your
token.
A
C
Yes,
the
actually
the
the
initial
idea
from
from
tech
was
we
don't
want
to
delay
any
the
like.
The
competition
boarding
and
voting
curve
are
getting
delayed,
but
we
don't
want
to
delay
the
hatch.
So
what
we
can
do
is
just
making
with
the
hatch
and
meanwhile
the
hatches
is
being
done.
We
can
still
work
on
on
the
other
things
and
we
include
them
later
and
for
me
at
the
beginning
was
like
I
don't
know
if
that
is
going
to
be
good
for
regal.
C
But
when
I
talk
with
grief
said
that's
perfect
for
legal,
because
then
we,
what
we
have
is
just
undressing
in
which
you
don't
you.
You
don't
expect
as
it
was
that,
as
you
was
telling
you
don't
expect
any
profit,
you
are
actually
you,
you
actually
don't
lose
your
money
either.
You
lose
part
of
your
money.
We
have
to
decide
which
part
goes
to
the
funding
pool,
because
that
is
a
donation
to
the
funding
pool
to
the
to
the
commons,
but
the
other
money.
C
You
can
still
get
get
it
if
you
want,
because
what
we
are
going
to
set
up
at
the
beginning
is
a
dandelion
which
is
very
similar
to
the
molok
dao,
in
which
you
can
put
your
money,
and
you
can
redeem
the
tokens
that
you
obtain
again.
So
if
you
put
they
and
obtain
tokens,
but
you
can
also
burn
those
tokens
to
get
back
your
money,
that's
the
idea.
C
C
C
C
C
The
the
main
mechanism
is
going
to
be
the
bonding
curve,
and
there
is
also
another
mechanism
that
is
the
the
redemptions
in
which
you
can
also,
in
the
case
that
the
funding
pool
is
very,
very
full
of
money.
Maybe
it's
better
for
you
to
get
that
that
money
from
there
reading
your
tokens,
based
on
on
that
price
here,
which
may
be
higher.
That's
not
going
to
happen
probably,
but
it's
it's
a
way
in
that
we
have
in
order
to,
in
the
case
that
the
funding
pool
has
a
lot
of
talk,
a
lot
of
money.
C
C
Yeah
and
that
first
phase,
I
guess
that
the
main
idea
is
you
you
put
together
the
defense.
Some
funds
goes
to
another
place
that
you
are
not
going
to
recover,
but
you
remove
them.
If
and
that's
the
important
thing,
if
you
go
ds
on
a
boat,
your
tokens
are
going
to
be
locked,
so
you
cannot
vote
yes
and
then
leave.
C
If
you
vote.
Yes,
you,
you
are
there
until
the
end
of
the
vote.
You
cannot
trade
in
your
token,
for
example.
So
if
people
is
voting
for
something
that
you
don't
want,
you
can
and
the
book
passes,
but
you
didn't
put
yes,
then
you
can
you
have
some
time
in
order
to
redeem
the
tokens
that
you
you,
that
you
have
for
the
eye
and
and
leave
the
that's.
That's
how
dandelion
works.
B
A
There
is
one
post
that
grief
created
on
the
forum
on
the
forum.
If
you
go
to
the
agenda,
there
is
a
link
in
the
agenda
linking
to
that
post,
where
there
is
a
video
on
the
self
governance
meeting
that
we
had
on
tuesday
and
that's
when
grief
introduced
all
these
changes
to
to
some
of
us
after
he
had
the
meeting
on
monday
with
a
technical
working
group
and
and
there's
the
there's,
the
video
there,
and
on
top
of
the
text
that
he
wrote
on
the
on
the
forum.
So.
H
There
might
be
a
better
documentation
of
dandelion,
because
I
didn't
really
talk
about
the
details
of
redemptions
and
all
of
that
yeah,
but
it
it's
a
very
standard
process.
It's
the
same
thing,
molok
dao
uses
it's
it's
the
exact
same
process.
The
only
difference
here
is
that
we
would
take
a
discount
at
the
beginning
of
whatever
the
house
tribute
percentage.
A
There's
one
question:
after
listening
to
sam
that
that
I
didn't
get
quite
clear,
let
me
okay,
everyone
joins
the
hatch
phase
and
no
one
redeems
their
tokens
everyone's
happy
with
going
into
the
bonding
curve
and
the
conviction
voting.
Now
we
launch
the
bonding
curve,
but
part
of
the
money
part
of
the
funds
have
gone
to
the
funding.
Bolt.
H
A
A
Right,
I
agree,
but
that's
on
the
second
phase
of
the
of
the
project,
so
in
the
free
and
the
very
first
stage
all
you're
saying
is:
if
you
join,
you
get
some
governance,
but
part
of
that
money
is
gonna,
be
a
donation
and
that's
it
that's
the
message
that
we
are
giving
away
to
anyone
who
wants
to
join
the
hatching
phase.
It's
not
east.
H
F
F
You
had
to
be
very
careful,
that's
why
this
is
why
it's
called
the
legal
working
group
because
yeah
it's
called
functional
equivalent
but
looks
like
a
debt
acts
like
a
debt.
Then
all
the
authorities
will
say
you
if
you
promptly
pay
and
if
you
don't
have
the
money
you
could
be
trading
while
insolvent
and
therefore
the
company
could
be
put
into
administration.
B
C
C
Would
you
be
able?
Would
you
be
able
to
vote
when
you
are
at
the
end
of
the
of
the
hatch?
You
receive
the
tokens?
Well,
we
there
is
a
kind
of
action
that
you
have
to
say.
Okay,
that's
the
that
that's
the
end
of
the
hatch
been
tokens
to
everyone,
but
once
you
have
the
you
have
the
the
tokens
you
are
able
to
vote.
The
thing
is
that
who
is
going
to
be
able
to
create
votes?
C
What
we
were
thinking
is
anybody
can
create
the
vote,
but
they
have
to
pay
a
very
high
fee
because
we
want
that
to
be
decentralized,
so
it
didn't
seem
correct
to
have
a
single
entity
that
that
can
create
both
and
it
can
be
anybody
with
with
paying,
for
example,
I
don't
know
100
and
dice
for
creating
the
vote.
Something
like
that.
B
C
B
No,
it
just
means
that
there
were
a
lot
of
icos.
That
said,
give
me
the
money
and
will
develop.
You
know
things
in
the
future
and
in
one
year
you
could
use
your
token
and
then
they
said
that
no
it's
it's
important
that
you
know.
After
the
ico
or
whatever
kind
of
funding
you're
doing
the
token
holders
can
use
the
the
token.
A
H
I
think
I
I
think
that
it's
still
a
stretch
to
say
that,
like
oh
we're
in
the
clear
now,
you
know
because
we're
still
going
to
say,
hey,
there's
an
expectation
that
we
will
pass.
This
bonding
curve
vote
right
and
we're
going
to
still
be
giving
people
that
expectation.
So
I
don't
think
we're
in
like
the
clear
path
that
is
like
yeah
we're
good.
D
D
You
know
used
in
bonafide
and
that
it's
going
to
be
used
for
whatever
reasons
we
followed
together
with
those
people
that
we
donated
to
so
there's
always
some
certain
expectations.
It's
just
a
matter
of
fact
whether
we
recognize
those
expectations
legally
or
not,
and
whether
those
are
providing
me
with
certain
rights
and
obligations
or
not,
and
here
I
kind
of
have
a
feeling
that,
because
we
are
providing
somebody
with
the
voting
rights,
there
are
still
some
sort
of
expectations
that
are
legally
recognized
and
it's
not
equity.
D
I
do
for
that
reason,
however,
love
the
idea
of
calling
it
alone
and
then
having
the
forgiveness
clause
in
the
initial
terms
and
conditions,
because
that
means
that
everybody
reads
those
terms.
Everybody
knows
that
a
certain
amount
of
that
loan
is
going
to
be
forgiven,
meaning
that
we
are
basically
making
it
a
donation,
and
I
would
love
to
hear
more
people
expressing
their
opinions
about
the
convertible
loans,
so
this
alone
is
basically
going
to
be
converted
not
to
equity
that
much,
but
really
just
to
the
tokens
that
I
can
use
for
voting
system.
B
So
actually
we
made
it
in
a
way
that
it
was
not
possible
for
them
to
to
say
that
it
was
a
security
or
a
financial
instrument,
but
this
doesn't
solve
all
the
problems
because
we
had
to
comply
with
so
many
other
things.
So
I
don't
want
to
e
to
be
very
negative
right
now,
but
I
think
that
it
sounds
like
something
similar
to
that.
It
sounds
like.
F
B
B
G
F
Actually,
a
fairly
deep
topic-
and
I
have
consulted
on
it-
how
about
we
can
table
this
because
I
organized
that
crowd.
Getting
a
crowd
funding
license
will
help
this
activity
in
the
medium
term,
but
for
now
it's
complicated
so
can
we
table
and
get
someone
to
look
into
the
requirements
for
getting
a
crowdfunding
license.
H
A
I
I
would
like,
if
you
have
experience
in
in
crowd
in
crowdfunding
and
crowdsourcing
marina,
I
think
the
key
difference
between
what
we're
gonna
do
and
and
someone
launching
a
crown
funding.
You
know
whatever,
for
whatever
is
that
in
a
crowdfunding
project.
There's
a
company
or
there
is
an
individual
who's
asking
for
money
to
do
something
and
promising
something
whatever
here
we're
asking
you
to
join.
A
A
It's
every
one
of
us
voting
through
a
proposal
that
someone
will
put
together,
that's
gonna
vote
and,
for
instance,
if
we
put
a
proposal
and
we
decide
the
proposal
that
the
best
in
period,
we
can
call
it
a
different
term,
but
the
best
thing
for
you
is
going
to
be
a
month.
The
proposal
may
not
pass
and
someone
else
may
put
another
proposal
and
say
that
exactly
same
terms,
but
with
a
longer
investing
period.
A
At
the
end
of
the
day,
it's
all
of
us
there's
no
one
entity
asking
for
money
to
do
something
promising
what
you
will
get
back
from
your
money.
There's
an
entity
saying
they
come
here
just
when
you
join
part
of
your
money
is
gonna,
is
gonna,
be
used
for
this,
so
you'll
lose
it
and
part
of
your
money
will
still
be
here
to
become
part
of
the
doll
and
on
on,
on
behalf
of
that,
we're
going
to
give
you
the
tokens
to
vote
or
to
propose
anything
that
we
all
can
vote
and
we'll.
D
Make
friends
directly
based
on
what
you
just
said?
It
would
kind
of
make
sense
that
we
really
use
that
as
a
donation,
everybody
donates
their
funds
and
only
once
the
money
is
collected,
there
is
like
all
of
the
people
coming
together,
whomever
can
propose
who
gets
the
tokens
and
whom
not
it's
almost
like.
If
there
would
be
legal
entities
created
for
that,
that
would
be
one
legal
entity
and
then
there
would
be
another
entity
formed
and
that
another
entity
then
distributes
the
tokens.
D
As
I
mean,
if
the
money
is
being
collected-
and
nobody
actually
has
the
expectations
not
even
that
the
tokens
are
going
to
be
obtained,
can
give
you
the
money,
whatever
you
need
to
do
with
them,
then
you
know
we
collectively
decide.
These
are
the
people
that
really
need
that
funding.
This
is
the
the
amount
of
money
that
goes
to
reserves.
C
Actually,
when
what
we
are
doing,
is
it's
a
it's,
a
smart
concept
that,
based
on
how
much
people
donated
means
the
tokens
for
everyone
and
it's
somebody
who
just
press
a
button.
It's
nobody
who
is
giving
the
I
mean
it's.
It's
already
brightened
before
it's
the
the
determined
before-
and
this
is
how
the
contract
works,
the
contract
works.
We
could
have
two
contracts,
one
to
raise
money
and
another
one
to
to.
C
C
C
C
H
I
think
I
don't
know
I
I
would
say
that
we're
pretty
good
with
the
first
entity.
We
have
this
common
stack
association,
it's
designed
specifically
for
this
and
has
had
lawyers
review
terms
and
conditions
that
say
like
the
people
who
build
it,
you
know
they're
protected
there.
They
all
have
to
actually
legally
become
members
of
this
association.
H
So
it's
like
legal
shield,
you
know,
and
the
association
is
the
one
deploying
it
and
that's
okay,
you
will
still
probably
use
tornado
cash
and
deploy
it
like
all
cool
and
stuff.
But
you
know
it's
okay,
we,
we
can
say
the
common
stack
association
is
responsible
for
the
hatch.
The
cool
thing
is,
the
hatch
is
at
least
there's
not
a
guarantee
of
profits.
H
There's
not
a
guarantee
that
this
this
you
put
in
a
hundred
dollars
and
you
get
a
token
that's
worth
less
than
that,
so
there's
actually
an
expectation
of
loss
at
the
beginning
and
then,
after
that,
the
token
holders
will
vote
to
include
to
do
something
with
their
funds
that
will
actually
under
collateralize
the
funds
that
the
token
that
they
have
basically
right,
creating
the
bonding
curve.
As
like,
almost
like
a
fractional
reserve
lending
thing,
you
know
that's
what
the
bonding
curve
looks
like
it's
an
under
collateralized
token
backing
so
now
they've.
A
Well,
I
I
think,
I'm
not
a
legal
expert
here
like
since
we're
in
a
legal
working
group.
I
like
listening
to
the
to
the
ones
that
have
a
legal
experience
here,
but
what
I
I
I
when
I
mentioned
before,
I
see
a
big
difference
between
anything.
That's
already
legal
or
that's.
That's
that's
been
taking
place
before
because
there's
always
an
entity
right
here,
we're
not
gonna.
There's
not
gonna
be
an
entity,
it's
gonna
be
software
and
what
what
grief
mentioned?
A
F
A
F
E
Yeah,
I
I
don't
like
I
don't
know
the
legal
terms,
but
for
me
when
you
say
like
it's
a
donation
like
for
me
like
legally
it's
it's
better,
because
if
you
are
saying
like
something
someone
you're
going
to
have
more
fun,
I
mean
also
that
you
make.
I
mean.
Not,
maybe
you
make
people
hatch
like.
I
don't
know
the
words
right
now.
Maybe
you
get
catchers,
you
don't
want,
but
also
like
then
legally
it
seems
they
can
take
more
action
than
if
it's
just
a
donation.
E
F
H
Well,
yeah,
I
mean
the
individual
needs
to
pay
taxes
on
their
income.
Still,
even
even
we're
not
going
to
be
a
like
official
donation,
so
they
won't
get
a
rebate
there.
But
then,
when
it's
in
in
the
non-legal
entity
effectively
like
it
it's
dif,
it's
got
to
be
difficult
which
jurisdiction
is
going
to
decide
that.
Oh
it's!
This
is
ours
like
it's
switzerland
going
to
be
like.
Oh
no,
that's
that's
us!
You
know,
like
I
don't
know
it
gets.
It
gets
a
little
dicey.
H
Yeah
I
mean
the
the
really
nice
thing
is
like
I
don't.
I.
I
think
that
we're
going
to
keep
this
small.
This
is
not
going
to
raise
millions
of
dollars,
maybe
a
million
dollars.
Maybe
if
we're
lucky,
okay,
like
we're
not
going
to
try
to
make
it
really
big
and
we're
also,
you
know
trying
to
do
some
we're
trying
to
fund
research.
I
I
think
that
the
fact
that
we
are
building
economies
around
public
goods
gives
us
a
lot
of
leeway
in
the
gray
area.
H
I
don't
think
any
agency
is
gonna
say
you
know
what
these
are,
the
guys
I'm
gonna
start
with.
I'm
gonna
make
a
point
against
these
guys.
You
know
like
no,
you
know
we're
not
it's
not
like
we're
a
ponzi
scheme
or
we're
trying
to
you
know
just
do
defy
money
to
make
money
games
we're
we're
trying
to
fund
research
in
a
new
field
of
study.
So
I
I
think
we
can
take
more
risks,
it's
good
to
talk
about
them,
of
course,
and
make
sure
we
know
them,
but
I
still
feel
optimistic.
B
B
H
H
D
I
would
assume
that
the
regulators
would
go
with
the
stricter
positions,
so
everything
not
just
what
what
has
been
invested
into
the
ponding
curve
would
be
looked
at
together
and
then,
if
it
supersedes
the
million,
then
it
would
fall
under
the
regulation.
But
who
knows
yeah
also
one
stupid
question,
but
I
mean
I'm
not
sure
if
that
was
ever
addressed,
but
is
there
a
multisig
like?
C
We
still
have
to
figure
out
a
way
that
is
more
decentralized
for
the
specific
administration
of
the
bonding,
the
specific
administration
of
the
conviction
voting,
because
we
have
some
roles
for
cancelling
proposals
and
updating
parameters,
no,
actually
not
specifically
for
cancelling
proposals
that
that's
not
acceptable,
so
we
have
to
control
it
before
it
passes
and
that
we
have
used
in
one
hive.
We
have
used
like
multi-six
or.
H
Individual
addresses
I
mean
can
can
when
we
launch
it,
can
that
permission
be
empty
and
be
assigned
after
launch.
Yes,
that's
that's
been
the
the
decentralized
pattern
is
like.
I
don't
know
I
really
like
escape
patches
personally.
Alright,
that's
just
me,
I'm
a
big
fan,
but
you
launch
without
one
but
with
a
plan
to
add
one
and
then
the
person
who
has
it
is
a
service
provider,
not
a
centralized
authority.
That's
that's
the.
C
Maybe
there
is
a
very
important
thing
to
to
to
discuss
here.
Well,
two
things.
I
I
know
that
we
are
already
finished,
but
there
are
two
ways
to
migrate
to
the
the
second
phase.
One
is
installing
the
the
new
apps
into
the
same
dial,
and
the
other
way
around
is
to
send
the
token
to
another.
It's
very
technical,
and
it's
it's
it's
something
like
it's.
It's
very
technical.
Nobody
is
going
to
see
that
they
are
not
going
to
be
using
the
exact
same
contrast
directly.
C
The
websites
are
going
to
be
the
same.
Everything
is
going
to
be
the
same,
but
the
thing
is
that
I
don't
know
how
it
interacts
with
with
legal
if
we
are
installing
new
apps,
it's
just
about
in
the
same
dial
everywhere.
Everything
is
the
same.
We
just
change
parameters
with
dandelion
voting.
If
we
migrate
the
the
token
to
a
new
dao,
then
this
tao
has
to
be
made
by
someone.
So
maybe
we
have
the
same
problem
that
we
had
before.
D
And
also
it
needs
to
be
mandated
by
someone
what
you're
saying
what
you're
explaining
here
like,
I
see
two
things
that
are
happening.
Somebody
still
will
allocate
the
tokens
to
people,
so
somebody
will
create
those
smart
contracts
and
then
somebody
would
still
migrate
these
tokens
to
a
new
dial
and
yes,
of
course,
somebody
would
need
to
create
a
new
dial
first,
but
whomever
does
the
migration
whomever
sets
out
the
parameters
whomever
actually
says
or
provides
these
orders
to
be
happening.
That
person
actually
can
be
held
accountable
or
whatever
goes
wrong.
H
D
B
Yeah,
I
mean
usually
those
things
are
defined
in
you
know
statues
of
organizations
or
different
contracts.
So
you
know
exactly
how
many
votes
you
need
in
order
for
this
decision
to
be
legitimate,
blah
blah
blah.
So
are
we
going
to
have
any
of
those
you
know
documents
or
rules
written
down
anywhere
or
not
yeah
like.
D
So
many
questions,
and
even
before
sam
or
grief-
I
don't
know
who
said
that
but
like
there
was
a
proposal
on
the
table
to
make
very
high
barriers
on
who
can
actually
propose
a
vote
in
the
first
place.
So
if
you
put
like
a
very
very
high
barrier,
that
only
allows
two
people
to
actually
propose
the
votes.
Then
again,
possibly
you.
H
K
A
Try
to
you
know
put
them
so
at
least
we're
under
1
million
and
under
little
you
know,
barriers
or
limits
that
keep
us
a
little
safer.
In
in
case
they
try
to.
You
know,
go
after
whatever
legal
entity
they
can
find
behind
the
dial
all
right.
If
there
is
not
anything,
if
there's
anyone
else
who
wants
to
add
sure,
except
the
most.
E
D
Oh
yeah,
my
final
thoughts
on
what
what
has
been
said
today
is
that
it
helps
a
lot
in
terms
of
how,
for
example,
regulations,
work
or
how
they
apply
on
the
project.
If
we
already
have
a
very
good
voting
process
in
our
mind,
because
then
it's
much
easier
for
a
lawyer
to
say:
okay,
this
resembles
the
cooperative
structure
or
okay.
This
resembles
the-
I
don't
know
llc
structure
or
this
resembles
a
typical
ico
structure,
or
this
really
resembles
the
loan
or
these
really
resembles
the
donation.
D
The
voting
is
very
important
here,
so
the
more
we
know
about
the
voting
processes
like
who's
going
to
have
the
ability
to
say
when
the
voting
is
going
to
be
possible
or
who's
going
to
be,
having
responsibility
on
how
the
voting
is
actually
taking
place,
who's
going
to
have
the
ability
to
vote
when
that
happens
and
how
the
tokens
are
going
to
be
distributed
in
the
first
place.
Those
are
all
very
relevant
questions
and
I'm
more
than
happy
to
discuss
them
alongside,
while
it's
being
developed.