Token Engineering Commons Transparency Working Group, 8 Feb 2021

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From YouTube: W4 Transparency WG: Trial audit approach, fund management, and other audit metrics

Description

Timecodes:
00:00 - Intentions and distractions
1:36 - Zenhub issues
2:19 - Call recorders and new meetings
4:48 - Financial statement/fund management (sustainability)
13:12 - Trial audit for Gravity
17:38 - Meeting attendance term updates
19:49 - Promotion of CS videos on TEC channel
27:14 - Audit metrics

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A

Do this because it kind of distracts me uh yeah, we can yeah, we can start with intentions and distractions.

A

My intentions are to go through the agenda and especially, I I like to give feedback from the sustainability of the of the audit, like not the other thing, the project and yeah just but my intentions, and I don't have any distraction I'll pass it to libby.

B

My intentions are to um yeah, maybe touch a little bit on the accountability methods that I know you and juan were talking about and um yeah I'm a little bit hungry, that's a slight distraction, but other than that, I'm present that's to ivy.

C

um My intentions are to go over the agenda, so the list and the agenda and um yeah. I think that those are my intentions to clarify some things with you and I have zero.

C

A

So we see the board for this this sprint and another walls are basically the gravity, trial audit and define the like. This last point on the web, like the funding section on the on the when we added every working group so.

A

A

So yeah I think, well, we could build this first.

A

February, oh, you already did.

C

Yes, and then I have to I just confirmed with libya earlier um we will remove the dao book club meetings for now, so you can remove that um pro.

A

A

C

Yeah then you can see that in the agenda. I know I I put there the new uh meetings that see the tc ama, so I'm not sure if if it should be recorded because the last time we did that I attended this call and it wasn't recorded. So I wanted to ask if it's should also be recorded.

A

What I I never been there, what it is here, it's the welcoming that is leading, or what do you think? Maybe it should be record or or not.

B

I think it could be cool if you guys have time availability.

A

Sure, yeah, okay, so yeah.

B

We decided to change.

A

B

Yeah, sorry, we decided to change more to an ama format, because it's gonna be more dynamic like we had, I had kind of a route of things to go over, but then I became and she had a lot of questions and that was so helpful to like have people's questions guiding the oh. How is it going to be so? Maybe it's going to be like an faq in the future for people when they join. They can like listen to this.

A

Great yeah, then I'll be there for sure all righty.

C

And there's another.

A

C

um The omega working group, so I also added that to our list just yeah.

A

I I I definitely will be on those. Those goals are amazing. I I will join anyway, so okay, yeah.

A

Okay, so the next point is the brainstorm on the sustainability of the working groups. Like that's a question that said on, the last store calls- and I I'm talking to him- he yeah, I have a feedback saying like not all the working groups can be sustainable because what they are providing is through the let's say to the common.

A

If, let's say, for example, I mean we were thinking like some methods, but then it wouldn't be like open, for example, we're thinking, let's say for gravity, they have to pay like the members pay, but then it wouldn't be the same, or let's say on transparency we could the youtube channel and library channel it. I mean it doesn't generate money now, but in the future who knows but but the main thing is like the the project should get sustained from other sites like a gate congruence and like like, and we were also thinking on right.

A

That's means, I'm thinking like have a working group who focus on the sustainability of the project. Something like that right is uh that when you use connie swap it goes to the funding pool or we're also thinking. um Let's say we create a shop for the tc and then let's say people who is buying these clothes and that that goes some part to the member who creates the the the the site, but then, like let's say, like 80 percent, goes to the funding pulse.

A

Something like that but like what we were overall thinking is like not all the working groups can be sustainable like if they are providing things to the community. It feels like the community should. If they are approved by the community, then it should be the community funding them. But I'd like to hear from you guys.

C

um What my understanding for this, um when I talk to grip, my understanding is um after the hatch you know, the impact hours will go away right, so um the question would be for the working groups. How are they gonna be funded? I mean how are they gonna continue working if they don't get the impact hours? Did they have a process for that to uh to keep the people uh contributing because there will be no um impact hours?

C

So he I think uh what he wants is to uh the working group. Do you have to already think about it? What can be their what's their process to get funded aside from the uh warm uh forum uh voting um yeah? So that's my, but that's my understanding of sustainability after the hatch how organic people get um funded.

C

So I don't know if there are other um inputs.

D

Yeah, this is a big, a big question that we've been having, and that was.

B

um I think we just need to brainstorm about this, because I feel, like people have different ideas I feel like it would be um like what are the options now it could be that uh people submit the working group lead, submits a proposal once a month.

B

Let's say to to the dow to conviction, voting asking for a certain number uh to divide uh between the working group members, but then, but then this person would be responsible to sending the money to other people, and maybe that's not like the most desired outcome that one person would have to like split the money between others, like maybe members of the working group, could submit individual proposals, but then that would spam the comments.

B

um We could continue using impact hours in the sense of like phrases dished and then in the the same thing happens the quantification and then the final number uh is submitted to the to the dow to like uh send the tokens to people. So one question I have in technical terms is: is it possible to put like multiple addresses in one proposal?

B

Let's say: do you know that.

A

No, I don't know, but I could ask to them, but I in regarding that I really like the system that garden first is using. They have like an independent dial where the phones go and then all the members of that new dao, that is the only purpose, is, let's say, a common swarm.

A

uh They vote and they distribute their money like as a working group, and I think what transparency could do regarding that dislike us, how they distribute the money and just to be transparent like. But I don't, I think, it's out of our scope like uh do the sustainability thing, because well I don't know how to do it, but then, like let's say when, when the workers are working and they are distributing the money like, I think what we could do is just ask how they do it and show the job.

A

This money is worth.

C

Yeah, I agree with that, so I think the sustainability thing is on our scope, but for the uh audit purposes, I think the question that we can ask is um what's their process for funding, or do they have already a proposal how to fund uh their working group for after the hatch and yeah if they can show us the process.

C

So that's the only information that we would need um from them and like what he said. um It's good to identify who is um managing the funds and who is distributing the funds. So these are the informa. These are, I think, to be important details to um ask in the audit, but uh for sure we can't have those um details yet so we can't really give them a score for that, but I think it's good that um as early as now, uh the working groups can already uh think about it.

C

So after the hatch, they can already have a proposal ready.

A

Yeah, I think, when go ahead.

B

No, I think that's a good idea. It made me think if um that each group would each working group would have their own process if that's better than having like a suggested process for everyone.

B

I think it feels like yeah more free like that, that each, but, but to have this conversation with each working group like hey, do you have a plan for how you're going to continue funding the working group and then once this plan exists, you guys make sure that it's happening, that it's happening right.

A

So then, what we should do now we are doing the gravity drain audit like we should meet to a meet with juan and and ask how he, but isn't that too much uh I feel like we are putting pressure on him because he also have other things to do, but I think it would be nice like like. Actually it will help their working group right.

A

What do you think.

C

um The first thing we have to do is to update this um checklist and put the question there. You know, and I think one is already aware that we would update it. But after we put this question that we about the funding process, maybe it's also good to notify him or uh yeah inform him that we added a new section.

C

So he knows what he would he should be preparing for, and if he has questions then he can have a call with us if he wants yeah, I think that's it, and um how do you plan to start the audit for them I mean, did we just send them the checklist, or do you want to have a call with him before we proceed with the before he start with the documentation.

A

I think during the trial, especially, it would be so nice to do it together, so we could gather the most feedback from it. Yeah! That's what I think. What do you think living.

B

You mean to talk to juan to do how to start the audit.

A

No, I mean uh like uh do the audit together instead of uh rebuilding the documentation and send it to him like I.

B

Think I think doing together, it's good.

B

Like I or maybe, or maybe it could be, each working group chooses what they prefer.

A

Yeah I mean the the idea uh like after hatch, is um that we send the checklist and then we offer them to do it together. Then they decide, but now in the trial. I think it would be so nice if we do it together, because we will gather a lot of feedback awesome.

C

So um zap, are you gonna just reach out to him and ask for his availability when he wants to do it together?.

A

I can do that these new headsets are dropping all the time, but yeah I can do.

A

A

So we should keep moving on the agenda or there's something else, and this point we could discuss what I understood is we like what I understood is we ask the questions not for sustainability, but how they are going to manage the funds and every working group will have their own plan that they have to decide and and yeah. We can check it and then I think we can also uh after having like seeing many working groups.

A

If some working groups are they don't have any plan like we could say what the others are doing and then we have them. But that's what I think I understood from that.

B

Oh, I think tomorrow in safkoff we could have a brainstorming on what are all of the possible options for funding, and then we have this list prepared and then every working group can choose what type of way they're going to follow or propose a new one and then, and then at least you guys would have like a little frame of how the fundings could go.

A

That's awesome believe me yeah, that's so great, okay, don't catch it.

A

Okay, so we move from the next point.

C

Our call with the legal team there have been um updates from um adrian. I think so. I wanted to ask you if I should. We should just um proceed with that and hand it over to santi and then we're done. Our transparency group is done with the document or is there anything else that's expected from us to do, though I think there is.

C

uh I just checked the document today actually- and there is this- um I agree button that adrian added, so I don't know if it's possible, because we don't have that button yet and we're already doing the calls. So should we keep it and just let legal decide how they're gonna resolve it.

A

Yeah I got the feeling like with it and what we could do and now it's the experts who have to review and say if something has to change or if they have to add something- and I agree I already did like he changed like almost the whole document, and it looks amazing, but I think now it's yeah up to the expert and yeah. We we what we know.

C

Okay, so let's just um put this in the um zenhub issue- that's assigned to santi, you know just to have a clear communication and documentation that um we've done our part and we're already handing over the documents to their team. So it's just clear that um for now, there's no expected action from us.

A

Yeah the session: do you do that or should I.

C

I can do that. I can do it great.

A

Awesome, then, is this point of adding uh screen cards in the tc videos to promote common stock.

C

um Yeah this is from me because um there is an issue. I saw an old issue in zenhub that um they wanted to promote the common staff videos in our youtube channel and the tc channel. So I'm wondering instead of uploading the videos from the common stack videos on the tc youtube channel. My idea is just to put them as end screen or the cards on youtube. Do you think it's possible?

C

Are you familiar with the end screens and the cards.

A

uh I don't know.

C

A

C

I should be, I.

A

Should see it I mean if I I don't know what we are talking about.

C

A

If you can share a video where someone is doing it and I think yeah, I think I could do some research and yeah and do whatever.

C

I can share screen.

C

Wait, oh my god, I'm getting lost again when I'm recording and sharing screen. At the same time.

E

E

C

Or maybe I can just show my whole screen is that okay, it's that's right.

C

um Here the one trying to say some, for example, in this one, let's say uh this one.

C

All right, and then here is the editor.

E

And then video.

E

I'm gonna let this one right.

C

And details, and then here the end screen and cards before the end screen gonna be like this, so we can have like even just one video at the end.

C

But I I don't know if you know how to do it or if you have done that before.

A

No, I never done that before, but I think that's a great idea and that doesn't take much time.

C

Yeah, instead of um so, we don't.

C

uh And then we're gonna put it here and then it will appear at the end. So it's just gonna, be it's gonna, be like a recommended video for them after they watch the uh our videos.

A

But yeah yeah. Definitely I can do it for every video, but the question I have is what which videos should I recommend.

C

uh I have I have to check it yet with griff, but I'm just yeah. I I just wanted to ask you if it's possible or you think it's a yeah. If, if you have nothing.

B

To do with your.

C

Other suggestions and here's another one, so instead of that video, it will appear like this at the top suggested.

A

Yeah, that's awesome, that's a great idea and it doesn't take that much time. It's just a.

B

A

B

Yeah, so so yeah, I think.

A

To proceed with that, what I would need is just to know uh which videos like what's the process we for that like do. We want to recommend on every video the last video of common sense, or do we want every time comments do a new video we recommend on the on on. Like I don't know, let's say, for example, for dc, there is like a lot of videos every day, but for common stocks there is not that many.

A

So my question is: should we suggest every time commons update a video or we should always keep recommending the last video or.

C

um I have to this is still uh I'm still waiting for uh grief. I still have to confirm this with griff, but I just have to check with you if it's possible to do that before I recommend this to him and then once he he also says um yes and then I can ask him which videos he wants to promote to the tc channel.

C

But my question is: where would we promote them? I mean in every pc videos or.

A

I mean it depends, but, for example, like the videos that normally have more views, are the community videos so yeah. For me it would make sense. It depends on how many videos.

C

The videos that we, the videos that we have right now for common staff, are the sprint review videos, so that that we have that every two weeks, I'm thinking this can go in the community calls. We can add this video in the community calls and in the sprint um sprint videos for tec. Also, we can recommend the sprint videos for comments up at the end of the sprint of the tc sprint videos and the community calls and then the common simulator call.

C

So that's also what we upload, but I don't know which in which video it should go to the common simulator. Maybe I can ask.

A

Do it make sense to do it with on the lab videos, since they are doing similar stuff.

E

I I don't really know, I don't know, but.

C

Yeah, okay, I can ask him. I was thinking that yeah, maybe in the lab or in the um common swarm video yeah, but I will also check with griff where he wants to promote this videos.

A

Yeah, that's that's a great idea.

B

I'm a little bit confused. Why would the uh you're you're saying we would put a tec video in the comments stack uh page.

C

No, the common snap videos will be in the tc channel at the end of the tc videos, like uh promotion.

B

Oh promotion, oh I see okay, like the one that comes up next, this kind of thing, yes, okay, cool.

C

A

That was our last point on the agenda, but I think since levisquian we could talk about them like she was interesting on the on go through the audit and see the the the things we were discussing with one. So I need to find it additional transparency. I can share the screen.

E

A

ah That's nice you're here yeah we were doing a um a call with ivy last week. I don't remember when, and we were thinking like for the for the score. The final score, we're thinking like to adding points and, for example, on on this one, let's say, for example, manifesto it have. If you have a manifesto, then it's four points but those points they would give them to themselves if they have, if they think the manifesto is not good enough, they could say two or or whatever, but having the manifesto.

A

It's actually four points, then the the controversial one was this this one, because do the manifestos reflect the current goals and working group style of the team and the I don't know our idea is: if that's a yes, it's a three uh and it and if it should be updated, then it should not be three until it's updated and if they update it- and they highlight this on the manifesto, then they get the three.

A

Is that clear or or not,.

B

Yeah, I think that's clear.

A

A

Then well well, and we were doing that with uh like it was like four. It was like, like 10 10 points for each point, uh but then on the on the last one impact hours uh it's less than then it's four, it's seven, because we feel it's less questions. The third working group communicate the price quantification document which they contribute to so they know their impact hours are all the contributors proportionally linearly praised.

A

And then, with a change like the last time you joined the call we were seeing like sending a screenshot, and then sam gave us feedback saying like on a true based community. We shouldn't share screens it's better to share links. Let's say instead of sharing a link or a screen on a comment on on youtube or on.

A

A place where it's on the video you share the link with the exact minute of the video and, and that would be more transparent and yeah. He was saying like and screenshot. Well not that great, and this is like better.

A

What what do you think, instead of screenshots use using links.

B

So what are what are the links about if the, if the working group lead shared the impact hours with the working group.

A

Exactly, instead of sharing a screenshot of the agenda share the link of the agenda in that case, for example,.

B

B

So the idea is, after each praise quantification, that the working groups uh have a look at the. I don't understand that first part.

A

uh Well, the idea here is like the the working group is communicating with all the contributors like the impact hours. They have.

A

Oh yeah go ahead.

C

Yeah, so it's uh the point here is just to commit uh the after the phrase: quantification, uh the response or um uh or not, even not after every race quant, but as long as the working group communicate to the contributors that these are your impact hours.

C

So we just have to see where they tell where they uh give this information to the contributors. So if they can send the link to the telegram channel or discord channel where they um inform this the contributors, then that should be fine.

C

That's the idea. Okay,.

B

My my first, my first feeling is that.

B

The the impact hours are available for everyone, like that. It's constantly shared.

B

B

I know it's nice, but I don't know if it feels like super necessary to share with everyone in the working group, since it's already no, but that's nice. It's nice yeah.

A

I can I kind of feel like living, I feel like uh showing to everyone. I mean it would be like overdue. I feel like just communicating it like having it on the agenda, or I mean just I.

C

Think the goal here the goal here is to make this information available to everyone. I think that's it. I mean we don't have to communicate it every time you know, but there should be at least once or once and once in a while. The contributors know how much impact hours they have you know or if, if someone asks um it should be available to them, you know, but they we're not looking for the working groups to communicate every time or to update every time uh the contributors about their impact hours.

C

But I think it's just important that um their contributors know where to check how much impact hours they have just to make this information available to them.

B

Yeah, it sounds good to put in the agenda like to make it very easy, but then I wouldn't think it's it's needed to like talk about it like I feel like if it's there available and just like pointing like. Oh you guys can check your impact hours here and then, if there is any question uh to be open for questions.

A

Yeah, I feel I feel the same way I like the goal with that should be like, uh especially for new people, because, like the the old people, they know, if they write a exclamation sheet, they have the impact hours there and but new people doesn't know and the idea is yeah, not, I think yeah.

A

The main idea is just to have it somewhere, so people put like a place where people normally check. I think the agenda is a great place like you, you just come. This is not the agenda.

C

Yeah agenda is a good place, but maybe we can just give the working groups the freedom to choose where they want to make this information available, and then they just have to share with us the link to wherever they want to make this information available for their working group.

A

Yeah, I think that's great.

C

Okay, so what was that about? The accountability that you were saying.

A

That well for each point of the of the audit, we were every point I need to find an article. I need to find one.

A

Give me a second.

A

A

Like we're trying to implement this on on the audit- and I don't know how to do it- to see what? Because, for example, the the manifesto it's info availability and it should be public high, like.

A

I mean there is some point like transaction, because that it doesn't matter, but that's nothing. We should it's nothing related to what we are doing, but especially the info availability, sovereignty, truth level and rigidity. It depends like I think we could use that on on the documentation like uh we were talking to. Remember where, like uh some document should be like adaptative, but some others should be immutable. Let's say manifestos should be more immutable than the agenda. The agenda should be more adaptative, for example,.

A

And we're trying to implement that on the audit and what we've what we come up with was like, for example, the manifesto it's info availability and it should be high, transparent same for roadmap and then contributors is the other way is trust level.

A

So it should be cooperative norms.

A

And we should promote that.

A

uh Decision making so we're draining.

A

um And yeah here we should, I mean we should think as a community, but I think uh rules should favor agents, it would make more sense or how do you feel.

C

Can you share the link to this, so I can take a look closely.

A

I'll send it.

A

A

A

Like I'm also shooting screen, I think yeah.

A

So on that niti I think we should well or maybe something in between.

A

And well, I don't understand this.

A

Like bitcoin is zero pandora's. Eight google is nine, I guess zero is favorable for atoms and one is institution.

A

And I would feel for them, be something like.

A

Thinking on the.

E

A

But not that much as bitcoin, for example,.

B

Yeah, I think it should be somehow in the middle like balanced, because because favor favor institution, I think it can also mean like with the protection of uh I, don't know the mission, the values uh off the of the institution of the tc that is built by the agents, but then to have this balance, that the agents have autonomy to to propose any change to act whenever they see an opportunity or or or they want to improve something and- and the rules favoring. The institution is just like.

B

I think the boundaries we are creating to somehow be on the same track and have like the structure that we have as the working groups and all of this, it's somehow the institution, so the institution by design tries to give like maximum autonomy to the agents.

B

So I think we are somehow balance there.

A

Yeah, I feel the same.

A

And I don't know if yeah I already explained that we still have 15 minutes, I think we could hack on either the the first point we were working on the we could hack a bit on the document on the audit for the the funding like some, not random, but some questions uh like who are the phones going to be this, like just write a draft before so when we go on soft tomorrow, I would at least have some idea on on what we are thinking or we could either have on on this.

A

But I think this would be harder because I well right now. I don't know how to do it, but yeah. Let's go. What do you want to do.

B

I think, actually it's a bit blurry now how are like we were discussing what what are the options for funding and how would we approach them and then maybe understanding? How is the transparency part of that comes after so we could have this brainstorming tomorrow, come up with a list of options and then and then discuss the criteria for how to is that? What you're talking about.

A

Yeah well, it was yeah yeah and it makes sense. What I was thinking is uh like previously what transparency can do before knowing the systems they are going to be. I was thinking on what are the questions?

A

We should get answers from the working groups regarding the system. They.

B

Use but but we're not using the systems yet right, like yeah, because now we're using we're using impact hours so.

B

So it would be kind of like an interview for something that that we don't have yet or what.

C

Yeah, maybe we can just put a general more a more general question in the audit, like they already have a proposal: how to do how to cover funding for working group.

C

And um can you share with us the process you know and then, and then I mean I think, that's the only question that we can ask for now, since it's not there yet and then, once um after the hatch and uh their implement implementing the process, then we can add more questions to um check the transparency of their working group, but I think we can start. We just ask them if they already have a plan funding process for their group and it's good that they can share with us what their process is.

A

Yeah that was more or less what they were thinking, but yeah we well now we have like 12 minutes. We could work on one thing or I mean for right now. I have more uh I'm more clear on on this point of on the audi than than I am on the accountability, but yeah I mean it's just to to work a bit on on one point or another, but just too hard for yeah for the rest of the.

B

Hour, yeah thinking about accountability sounds nice for me.

A

Okay, yeah: we can do that.

E

A

I mean I am a bit lost right now and who would you like to handle it.

B

I think I was just a little bit curious about how, uh when you in juan talked- and you looked into the dao to dao uh document, what was the approach you guys were thinking.

A

Yeah, basically, what we, when we read that document we wanted to implement what the document was saying to the to the audit, and we come up with with those labels uh but yeah. The idea is to uh with this information, like the the graph was seen before, like make the the audit go with the values of the of the project. So we and we focus on like the main idea, is to focus those questions uh with with the values of the project but yeah. We we didn't do more. We just approach it.

C

So you mean you want to revise the questions, so it's more uh related to this values in the document. The doubt about document that you talked to one about.

A

My personal feelings is that the questions go kind of after got the values of the of the project like we are not imposing. We are like, like, I think, the in general. The questions are good and it it can be changed, of course, but yeah that that or my idea is to approach the audit to the to this document, but that that's why I don't know how else to do or say.

B

Yeah I feel like I can't help much before I read the document so so maybe I can do that and then we'll have this brainstorming tomorrow and then hopefully, things will get more clear.

A

Yeah, that's a good idea.

C

A

C

Because I haven't read the whole document yet so I also don't know how to integrate this um information in the audit, so I have to take a look also before I can um share my share some input.

A

Yeah, I think I think, yeah. I think that's the the best idea choose to tomorrow tomorrow, when everyone already read it on soft gob, we we can discuss it, we can. We could I mean if there's if we have time to do like five or ten minutes discussing that point on tomorrow, calls that'd be great, but yeah, and I think, for the like. I would like to just with here like.

A

Let's say I just copy the format.

A

And we somewhere we're saying how calling it a sustainability plan, but with with really excuse er today, it makes sense to call it another way, because it's not going to be sustainability. It should be.

A

B

Yeah, I agree like funds management, something like that. Yeah financial statement, sanskrition.

A

And then we could say.

A

Let me go through this again.

A

Which one of these should we use for them like to sing it translation? I mean.

A

I feel it has to be public, but at this time you have to have trust if it is something.

C

Will it not, will it fall under the transaction costs.

A

Free or prohibitive.

A

B

This maybe trust level because in this case, we're looking for like 100 cooperative norms, instead of competitive, like one person will get but like let's say we use this um this route, that one person gets the funds and distributes to everyone else. This should be like 100, cooperative.

A

B

Don't know if it makes sense yeah, it should make sense.

A

B

This any of this for this.

A

It doesn't have to be public at all right I mean the dow is going to be there, but it's not like. We have to announce like hey guys. This is like everywhere right. It's not that important. Like every working. You should.

C

I think you don't.

A

C

I think you don't have to announce it, but you just have to make it available to everyone yeah. I think.

A

That's a good, you know you just.

C

Have to make this information available.

A

Yeah, so that would be fully high.

A

C

We cover like, um for example, in one section: can we cover like uh three metrics, just don't focus on one? Is it.

A

C

A

C

Confusion, for example, for.

A

C

We can cover in just one section: we can cover three metrics like info availability, um trust level and transaction costs. Is that okay, or do you want to have only um one metric per second.

A

Yeah at the beginning, with one we were assigning one, but I feel it make more sense to assign more than one.

A

I feel it make the make it more robust, for example, in this one I feel it should be like public. It should be cooperative.

A

Like I think we could apply like almost all of them on every point like I feel, for example, it should be adaptative, it could change.

A

Sovereignty should be like, like we were saying something in between when you're asking for funds. You don't only expect the ads to get benefit, but the institution as well, so it should be something in between like I feel. But what do you think like aptly every point of those on every point?

A

For example in manifesto let's say info availability, it should be high sovereign sovereignty. Like I mean it's kind of the same, it should be in between cooperative, it should be cooperative and the rigidity in the in, for example, in the manifesto it should be. I mean not in no double but more this side than this one more immortal than adaptative, because the manifesto should not change that much yeah. But I'd like to hear from you. What do you.

C

Think yeah, I agree also, but I think we don't have to. We don't have to be very strict that this all of this metrics should be present for every section. Maybe we can just identify which are um applicable to the section, not uh not required you. Don't we don't yeah, we don't have to be strict to ourselves that um all these metrics should be covered in every section, but we can have um more than one or whatever is applicable.

A

Like I mean my idea is.

E

A

Not not to make everyone think about it, but the goal what I'm thinking is like inside the questions like it should be. All of these I mean, for example, we could just let's say, delete that, and the important thing is those things are in there.

B

Yeah, but I I hear what I've been saying that maybe some questions wouldn't have wouldn't like fulfill all the metrics that maybe one or another matrix wouldn't be present in one or another question. And then maybe uh maybe there can be a like a mark of which metrics are being used for each question and that the there is a willingness to use the max matrix possible. But if, if you think one or another metric doesn't apply that it's okay to leave it out.

A

Yeah, it makes sense so, for example, in financial statement. Well, we first should write the question. I mean it's the top of the hour. I don't know if you guys have to leave.

A

Yeah, I don't know I mean yeah, I mean I don't know.

C

Yeah, let's just.

A

C

Might take a longer time to brainstorm and work on, so we can just have another um session this week to uh put all our ideas here and revise the format and the um how we approach it. uh Based on this on the metrics that you that you shared with us.

A

Yeah that I think that's actually a good idea like we go tomorrow to solve god and after tomorrow, let's say wednesday. We think uh we brainstorm by yourself, I think, and then let's say thursday morning, I don't know the calendar, but uh let me know- or if you live, we want to join as well. We would say an hour that is good for all of us, but yeah tuesday morning looks nice.

A

uh I mean morning or I don't know to to work, 18 first and then yeah just to wrap this I mean it could be like, let's say half hour session, just to coordinate, or I mean it depends like normally when we and ivy meet, we don't have like, uh like we normally say one hour on the calendar, but sometimes it's more than an hour. Sometimes it's less than an hour and yeah.

A

I don't know uh yeah.

B

Yeah thursday will be a little bit hard for me because I'll have the talk in denver and I feel like it could be good to have a few hours to prepare. But.

A

I also don't feel obligated, I mean it's, maybe you prefer to see it when we got it finished and then you add some feedback. That will be awesome. I mean I don't wanna, I don't wanna feel you. I don't wanna make you feel obligated, but I don't wanna make you feel like you are exclude. You know like.

B

E

B

Thank you thanks son yeah I'll try to come uh whatever time you guys uh put it I'll, try to make it.

A

Okay, so uh well I mean yeah, my calendar is panda free. So it's everything.

C

You how about this same time on wednesday, the same hour that worked for use up, then I can add this in the calendar.

A

Yeah uh you mean one day.

D

C

A

Yeah: okay, yeah work for me.

C

Or an hour earlier, whatever you prefer.

A

Yeah for me, for me, it's fine and yeah. I just want to make sure like leave. It also feel obligated, but doesn't exclude it that way so yeah. I think at the top of the hour, and I think the echo was very productive, and now we have some purpose to work on.

E

A

D

C

B

Thanks nivea.

A

B

Thanks guys, bye.