Toronto City Council Executive Committee, 19 Mar 2018

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From YouTube: Executive Committee - March 19, 2018 - Part 2 of 2

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Executive Committee, meeting 32, March 19, 2018 - Part 2 of 2
Agenda and background materials:
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/decisionBodyProfile.do?function=doPrepare&meetingId=13016
Part 1 of 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxhKdHFecGw#t=6m15s

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0:05:57 - Meeting resume

A

That mean you will take this as your policy direction. Absolutely not.

B

The the recommendation is city executive committee request the city manager to.

B

Report back on individual strategies and key and key actions contained so the.

B

Intention is for us to undertake additional research additional analysis.

B

And to report back to executive committee, there is no action beyond the.

B

Development of further a further work implied in that you're not pursuing.

A

Certain directions, the research you're doing, for instance, there were questions.

A

Raised about the optimization of assets, and so is that work you're going to.

A

Pursue, for instance, so to be crystal clear: there's nothing in in the.

B

Recommendation that that should be read as a desire on my part or broader staffs.

B

Part to proceed with any type of privatization of hydro or any other any.

B

Other initiative, no, it's not it's not direction. It is direction to continue.

B

Work which, to be very frank, is, is our job and our obligation to continue to.

B

Develop strategies including these four years and actually, if you go back to.

A

2005 and the long term fiscal plan in 2005 pointed out exactly the same issues.

A

Pointed out similar strategies, if not the same strategies, and here we are now.

A

Four years into this term and once again without a clear council direction on.

A

These matters, why have we not got before us a real set of strategies that this.

A

Council believes should pursue, they should pursue, and I tried to be clear.

B

About this, and I apologize if I, if I was not what the report points out and what.

B

I believe to be true is that council has actually pursued two sets of strategies.

B

A separate revenue strategy and except rate service strategy, in which it is.

B

Continuously, sought to augment services recommended new adopted new reports.

B

Which could significantly increases, without necessarily providing without.

B

Actually, providing the resources in order to implement those that choice.

B

That choice about whether or not you pursue a smaller government or a larger.

B

Government strategy, the mix of services, is fundamentally a political choice. It.

B

Would be, in my view, completely inappropriate for a city manager to come.

B

Forward with one of those and say here you, oh, you know, your services cost one.

B

Point four billion dollars or one point x and then develop a strategy to finance.

B

That or similarly to say, your strategy should be all cuts, I'm not suggesting.

A

That you are the one who should come forward and say: select the city building.

A

Option or a smaller government option, what I'm saying is that we have not been.

A

Given before us council in four years now, another term passed without it being.

A

Laid out for us to approve a specific direction and, with those specific.

A

Recommendations to pursue, I feel as though these last four years we've been.

A

Waiting for this and I'm wondering why those specific recommendations or.

A

Options aren't laid out for us, so the options have been laid out. A number of.

B

Different times in in reports, staff have been, I think, quite full in their.

B

Analysis and in their concerns, this is not the first report done by the deputy.

B

City managers and I we have been clear about the gap between aspiration and.

B

Capacity over a period of time, we've also been clear through the revenue.

B

Reports and through a variety of other expenditure management approaches about.

B

The opportunities and potential policies and strategies to close those gaps so.

A

How do we move, I mean here, we are again punting it off to another term of.

A

Council, I really am frustrated as an elected.

A

Politician and I leave it- maybe what we really need is some political leadership.

A

To take this now and give some further direction, because if what you're saying.

A

Right now, mister city managers you're not taking direction from this report.

A

Then I'm wondering what is it that this council is.

A

Say after four years about how to solve the very fundamental fiscal challenges.

A

Of this city, I think awareness and a direct conversation is an excellent.

B

Start I think that that we are moving in the appropriate direction. I think.

B

Understanding that the city is in fact, well-managed is stable, but there's a gap.

B

Between aspirations and capacity is critical and then frankly, it will be up.

B

To the elected leadership, I say that with respect and anything about it as a.

A

Member of council, I could easily have taken this and said okay here what I.

A

Think could form the basis of recommendations. How do I have an.

A

Opportunity to do that as an elected official, you do have that opportunity.

B

This is part of that that dialogue last question. Thank you, you're saying I don't.

A

Know why that was last one six minutes. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so.

C

All of the questions have been asked by members of the council who are visiting.

C

With us today, and can I then move to questions of staff by the members of the.

C

Committee, councillor ainsley, thank you. I thank you through you.

D

Meritor ii, um mr. wallace, I just want to sir- I get some clarification on your.

D

Presentation at one point with regards to the municipal land transfer tax. There.

D

Was a calm, there was a comment. I guess he made that if we didn't have it or if.

D

We had to replace it. We'd have to look at increasing our revenues by 20%. 25% is.

B

I think what the model says: yes, okay and then the next question in the operating.

D

Forecasts I think it was in the appendix I was looking at that for the ml tt. It's.

D

Forecast to stay at the 2018 level for indefinitely, as that would and and just.

B

To be very clear, it's not a forecast, we actually don't have the capacity to.

B

Forecast ml tt land bull and the the the interaction between residential prices.

B

Volume, commercial prices and volume is such that the city of toronto does not.

B

Have a sophisticated understanding of the dynamics which drives our land.

B

Transfer tax, so we've made an assumption. The assumption is that it's flatlined on.

B

A going-forward basis, that's just an assumption, rather than a forecast or an.

B

Analysis right so, if so, if the 800 and I think, is 819 and 0.7. So if that's.

D

Incorrect we've got to fill that gap, for example like last year. I understand the.

D

Housing wealth on land transfer tax, then the opportunity to accept substantially.

B

More debt is, I think, in place if it is not de-risked itself and it is raising.

B

Debt with an absolute obligation to pay first and foremost, I think that would be.

B

A challenging scenario, so I don't think this is an I. This is not a straightforward piece. Part of the question is that that council does need.

B

To have drew budget committee through executive committee conversations around.

B

If we de-risk some of the revenue picture on land transfer tax that may.

B

Allow us to responsibly increase the level of overall debt in exchange for.

B

Providing vitally important services in the future so on to another question, the.

E

Kpmg report from november 2016 additional economic.

E

Of revenue options, we've heard, we've heard some comments that all of council.

E

Is it's not really getting a say in where we're going with this my view.

E

Would be, this would be a substantive document that I acts more more of a.

E

Roadmap and much of what's before us now, this came to council: did it not just to.

B

Be very clear: this report we made a conscious choice, not to reiterate the.

B

Work that had been done earlier so so this report stands in the shadow of and.

B

Relies heavily on the kpmg material! That's why the revenue section is so is.

B

So short factually that did go to council, but we can. We can't make the.

E

Argument that the substantive revenue tool document has been before council.

E

And councillors have voted. I've looked at the voting record here at councillor.

E

Davis is voting on numerous motions. We've had a fulsome discussion, but yes.

B

But but with respect and care, not necessarily in terms of the full, the.

B

Full volume of the report- okay, so there's more work to do. We all agree on.

E

That you mentioned in passing page 37, in particular about the importance of.

E

Toronto parking authority and as you're aware, there was a bit of a battle over.

E

What to do with commuter parking lots, valuable city assets was my position.

E

That that they stay is valuable assets we send motions to to your office.

E

There's a couple people sitting in the back there who who supported the.

E

Privatization of them council, in the end, sent a signal that these were important.

E

Assets and should be preserved, yet we never really heard back from from your.

E

Office on the importance of them and keeping them as vital revenue tools and.

E

Vital city assets, so they are being kept as vital revenue tools and vital city.

B

Assets and there's nothing in this report that suggests that we ever surrender control or majority control of any of these assets. What this report.

B

Suggests, though, that as any responsible enterprise should do is we should look.

B

At whether or not these reports are producing maximal revenue or revenue appropriately and right now, where we charge transit users.

B

A very very substantial cost for the use of their public service and road users.

B

Very small cost for their overall cost of use of the roads, both providing.

B

Mobility, both providing public utility, but one group is, is pays a very steep.

B

Almost all of two thirds of the cost, another group provides only a very small.

B

Share of that, we effectively socialize the cost of driving privatized. The cost.

B

Of public transit that seems irrational when the pricing strategy of the toronto.

B

Parking authority might be part of that conversation.

E

Well, that was thank you. Council passed a councillor palacio. Thank you. Mr. mayor.

F

Mr. wallace, in with regards to representation this morning, you spoke.

F

About the transform transform procurement in terms of finding savings.

F

Efficiencies and to get value for money literally, so my question to you is, as it.

F

Relates to with what we are doing quite a bit of infrastructure work out there.

F

And the billions of dollars so very often, we've been faced with a key.

F

Question in terms of quality of work, quality of materials and very often once.

F

The project serves, I know there we go. So are you planning within that context, to.

F

Them to redefined the transport transport procurement process, so I think.

B

I think the transformation of procurement is is potentially very very.

B

Important, I do believe and that it needs to be approached cautiously. We do know.

B

That that, on our large infrastructure projects, which I believe you're.

B

Referring to councillor, we do have a challenge in terms of procurement.

B

Managing the relationship with contractors achieving overall value.

B

Including the way in which we estimate those projects, I think that, having a.

B

Thoughtful conversation with council about how to potentially.

B

Form procurement may yield additional value for for the city and allow for.

B

Reprise ation of money and dedication to either lower taxes or to improve.

B

Services, how about a smaller companies- and we have by the hundreds of companies.

F

Out there that they probably meet the specifications of the procurement.

F

Process but and I'm talking about smaller companies that they want to be.

F

Part of the process in terms of fairness, equity, but if they haven't done any.

F

Business with the city, for example, if they don't have the two projects that my.

F

Understanding is required, how can they ever be part of the process? Are you.

F

Planning to look within those requirements of the transform.

F

Procurement to look at it as well, so so one of the challenges we have and- and I.

B

Believe you are correct, with with procurement, is that we set relatively.

B

High barriers to entry into the public sector marketplace, many of those are.

B

Appropriate and and many of those are absolutely necessary and they include.

B

Things like social conditions and a variety of others, as well as regulatory.

B

Compliance, having said that, we may well want to look at whether or not those.

B

Barriers are entirely appropriate and whether or not there is a way of.

B

Bringing other smaller firms in increasing competition and driving.

B

Greater value, great in terms of financial tools moving forward is while.

F

Talking to there are people out there, and at least in my part of the woods.

F

There one of the key questions is: why don't we look at some sort of municipal.

F

And sales tax that would be more equitable, sustainable, fair and that.

F

Would be that will apply to everyone so in that one of the financial tools in.

F

Terms of revenue that would be sustainable. Do we need permission within.

F

The city of toronto right to get to it, so so I think you might get different.

B

Answers if, if I share the share the microphone here, but I will give you my.

B

Answer first, it may well make policy sense to have a.

B

Municipal sales tax- it's at least arguable that there are elements of a.

B

Regional income tax that would make sense.

B

In all likelihood is not going to happen, these are gaps that are likely up to the city of toronto to address you can address them.

B

By lowering services, you can address them by increasing revenue within the.

B

Suite of policy options we have at this point, but but being able to tax liquor.

B

Being able to tax sales being able to tax income, getting a lottery variety of.

B

Other things are highly unlikely. I have never been indicated. We went forward as.

B

A city council with a relatively modest approach to to road pricing, starting.

B

With with two areas, we were met with the unanimous opposition of the ontario.

B

Legislature, I think, to actually expect that we will get sales tax. The.

B

Association of municipalities of ontario rolled this out as a policy option, was.

B

Turned down on the morning of their announcement by all three political.

B

Parties, so one thing I would urge city council is to not look for things that.

B

Aren't there, but to actually make practical use of the tools that we have.

B

Available longer-term, it may well make sense to have that dialogue with with.

B

The province of ontario and the government of canada, both of whom will be required in order to get a sales tax. But that's not like it happened in the.

B

Near future, within that context, in my last question, it's them.

F

With the mlt team now in the market extent a stagnates wait, wait! Sorry they.

F

Ml tt, the municipal and transfer taxes, either housing market slows down. If it.

F

Is tech needs, then? What, in terms of getting the short cons in terms of to.

F

Cover there the gap, so we we are monitoring land transfer tax on a.

B

Monthly basis, it did not grow in the month of february and in fact, dropped a.

B

Little bit below the pace and the expectations that we had been holding to.

B

We don't obviously know yet about what will happen in march when we presented.

B

The budget we indicated that that the first place, if, if that that staff would.

B

Recommend looking if there were a downturn, we would approach council and.

B

Potentially a future council by looking at the allocation.

B

Of capital from current that would force a reduction in capital spending, but that.

B

Would moderate it that would be moderated over time, so that would be the first place to look. We'd have to adapt, depending on what the.

B

Circumstances and and other factors were think so much. Thank you.

C

Councillor flat co, councillor barlow, deputy mayor viola, thank you. I just want.

G

To understand a little bit more about that the gap you did say that we've been.

G

The gap has been growing because we have been expanding our services and if we.

G

Want to continue to expand our services, so the option 3 that the gap will.

G

Continue to grow, I just want to confirm. That's that's what you you said that.

G

That is correct, yes, okay, and so is this the gap that every year we start the.

G

Year with so in previous years, been 700 million six hundred million, so you're.

G

What you're saying is that, at that point it's gonna be that big, it's gonna be a.

G

1.4 billion dollars, which most likely would be much harder to deal with than.

G

What we've been dealing up to now? Is that um extent yes, but but but what this.

B

Is is basically an effort to say if we make a number of assumptions and they're.

B

Clear about land transfer, tax, other governments and a variety of other.

B

Things like that, if we make some assumptions about the growth in program.

B

Expense that we have observed here's what will happen under a you know under.

B

A kind of status quo projection: this is what we will have these are. These are.

B

The types of gaps that would be over time required to be wrestled down, but is.

G

The 1.4 billion on top of what we usually start or no, is just the it's.

G

Continuing that the gap grows to 1.4, it would be, it would be, the gap would grow.

B

To that level, okay, just to be very clear, though, because we have a balanced budget.

B

It would never grow to that level. Yeah. Actually we are taken. Yes, is designed.

B

Just to show you the implications of the widening curves, why we've been talking a.

G

Lot about multi-year operational budget: it's not the first time that we've been.

G

Talking about it, why hadn't we done it right part of it is it's a very, very.

B

Good question: we do show you a couple of years. I think it's parcel when and I'm.

B

Always struck, frankly, by the absence of counsel questions on two things on risk.

B

And on multi-year budgeting- and it is essentially, I don't actually know why it.

B

Is that there has not been as much focus in on the multi-year or on the broader.

B

Fiscal framework for for the operating okay, so I mean in in broad strokes. I.

G

Just want to make sure that I we read your report correctly because there's so.

G

You, you said: there's no concern for delay. If you you just want to basically.

G

Make sure the from executive inform executive what you're doing basically.

G

The big message from here is counsel should start with a strategic plan, a.

G

Clear vision that sets the priorities and targets for the four years, so that.

G

You can develop a fiscal plan at the beginning of the term, newly elected.

G

Council comes in sets the strategy and sets the process in the way that is.

G

Going to deliver on that strategy, which obviously can only be delivered with.

G

Money is that what you're telling us I got is basically correct. Yes, so what.

G

You're, saying is the basic first change that we should do as a council is.

G

Actually tie the two together and that needs to be done with a very strong.

G

Mandate at the beginning of the term with a strategic vision for this council.

G

Meeting and then how we're going to deploy that every year through our budget, that is, that is the core notion involved in terms of the choice of a.

B

Path is that one of the reasons why you're saying, let's come back at the.

G

Beginning of the term, because you need that vision from a council unit and you.

G

Need the to the time to implement it, I think, frankly, the vision can be started.

B

At any point in time, I think it makes most sense given where we are in the.

B

Cycle to look forward to a a new council cycle and start from from there, that's.

B

Mostly, though, driven by by frankly, where we are in the calendar and last by the.

B

Election cycle, more just simply that we are through this year's budget process.

B

Okay, thank you. Thank you, deputy mayor bi-lo. I had.

C

Councillor giorgio next, thank you mr. mayor. I guess my first question is: would.

H

You agree that over the last 15 years has been a significant change in the.

H

Structure of the property taxes, by that I mean the property taxes once upon a.

H

Time used to cover a whole bunch of services, but more recently, we've kind of.

H

Downsized the actual core services covered by property taxes and introduced.

H

Other revenue tools, like user fees and what have you so yes, two things have.

B

Happened there, user fees have have broadened as a a base and land transfer.

B

Tax has also effectively substituted or displaced property tax, right and and.

H

We've also had other revenue tools like the signed tax and hotel tax. Now, if I.

H

Heard you correctly mr. city manager, you basically said you know: we've we've.

H

Really broadened that the revenue tools, I'm not sure that we are going to have.

H

Access to even more new revenue tools in the future, so my view is that council.

B

May wish to argue for more for other forms of revenue, including shares of.

B

Income or sales tax there are very, very significant technical policy and.

B

Political barriers to accomplishing those we have, probably, in my view.

B

Largely maximized the smaller boutique revenues available to us, there are a.

B

Handful of relatively significant tools that are available if counsel wishes to.

B

Land on the city, building side of the equation and continue to expand or.

B

Commit to continue expand the level of services provided in the context of city.

H

Building you, you heard that you know with population increases and and.

H

Whatnot, the actual cost of service delivery goes up, but I'm not sure that.

H

It goes up on a linear model. I think that once we start improving service.

H

Levels there may be actually a different kind of growth and not a linear growth.

H

In the costs, that's my fear and I think, to the extent that we use a five-year.

H

Projection or a ten year projection that would that would capture that growth.

H

And bring it to the eyes of council before they make any real substantial.

H

Decisions on increasing service levels, so so I think you're entirely correct.

B

And I think one of the things that is is important is that that it, it will not be.

B

Linear there has been, and it's on page 53, essentially a linear reduction in the.

B

Cost per capita. What council has told us and it's it's- it's told us very clearly.

B

We've costed these in that additional companion report 32.9, is that council.

B

Would like us to invest would like to invest in a wide variety of other.

B

Programs, smart tract and other transit networks. Those will ultimately require.

B

Additional resources and those will be nonlinear. They will be a step up. Then my.

H

Last comment, and perhaps in the form of a question, is that I'm not I'm not.

H

Convinced that and really the issue of fairness as to whether, let's say people.

H

Who take transit, paying the norden cost because of the fares that they're asked.

H

To versus motorist that you know, in my view, have license fees they they have.

H

Road tax is unbelievable through the gasoline tax and I'm wondering to what.

H

Extent, the road tax is that motorist pay at the gas pumps. What proportion of that.

H

Volume we would get back from the upper level of government, so we can do that. We.

B

Can do the the calculation on that, but toronto itself gets a relatively small.

B

Portion of the tax toronto does fund off its own tax base off the property tax.

B

Base it's roads if we actually just look at the degree of public sector subsidy.

B

Resolved, for example, for a family of car driving a car for the car versus a.

B

Family of four that actually pays transit. I think we'll discover that the.

B

Transit cost is likely in excess of that and that the the private cost of using.

B

Public transit is substantially higher than the private cost of using of using.

B

Roads, road taxes are there, but they're, not they're, not that significant.

B

Relative to the $3 a fare charge associated with with every time you get.

B

On a ttc vehicle, alright, thank you. Thank you, mister. Thank you. Councillor.

C

Digiorgio now do I have other members of committee wishing to ask.

C

Questions of staff before we councillor crawford. Thank you mr. mayor, just just.

I

To reiterate, I think some of what councillor our deputy mayor, bilal, was.

I

Saying so from here, you're gonna be taking this report. You're gonna be going.

I

Away coming back to us, I said I'm assuming at the beginning of the new.

I

Term of council, with a series of recommendations based on what we've read.

I

Here is that correct, I think as appropriate, but but yes most of that.

B

Will will necessarily come forward as part of the the next term of council.

I

Okay and then again these recommendations, you know they when we're.

I

Looking at how do we achieve our long term financial stability, you have at.

I

This point enough to call it information to come back to us with a fulsome set of.

I

Recommendations to be able to achieve what we're all trying to achieve here, which is our long-term financial stability. Yes, and I think I think the.

B

First thing we were aiming for is this would be sequenced. I think the first.

B

Thing to aim for would be improved information for council to make.

B

Decisions a little bit better sense of the longer term, a little bit better.

B

Sense of linking the operating and capital costs of new programs making.

B

Sure that those are understood and and linked together, better supporting a.

B

Mayor's address a variety of things like that. Some of the other recommendations.

B

Might take some time to bring forward okay, but you you do feel that the the.

I

Timing is right for you to be able to achieve that when we had the concern of.

I

Course is when I became budget chief four years ago at the same conversation about multi-year planning and we're having the same conversation again, we.

I

Couldn't achieve it for various reasons, and I want to ensure that when we.

I

Whatever nupur may, our new council come back is that they have every opportunity.

I

To cut right out of the gate to be able to begin to try to get to that next step.

I

Of what we really ultimately need to do, we actually haven't needed multi-year.

B

Planning, because that each year, that the challenge of multi-year planning and the.

B

Reason you would do multi-year planning is to make effective choices each year.

B

We haven't had to make effective choices because land transfer tax has come in.

B

And and obviated the need to make a choice on that that continuum, it's our.

B

View that that's not a pract approach going forward, so we would like.

B

To be in a position to offering to offer a returning counsel, a better, more.

B

Strategic framework for decisions going forward, and yes that would imply a.

B

Better understanding and the modeling we've done that that we've referred to a.

B

Number of times is the basics of that. So that's not a multi-year plan, but it is a.

B

Multi-Year starting point against which counsel can then structure its new plans.

I

Okay, thank you. Thank you. Councillor crawford other.

C

Members of the committee, if there aren't any, I might just ask a question just let.

C

Me just reset the clock here. Mr. wallace mike could I'm just anxious.

C

Because I think, where there's been a lot of reference made to phrases that I took a note of which offer pete later but about this was referred to as the.

C

Framework- and you know it's- you yourself made reference to necessary work to.

C

Provide for decision making critical next steps would I be right that the.

C

Kind of work that has to be done, for example, is to take even two documents that are in this executive committee binder, which is the one that comes later on. That's the multi-year. I think it's called service level analysis that has a.

C

Lot of numbers in it as to future financial consequences of decisions that.

C

Have been taken or initiatives that have been begun, putting that, together for.

C

Example with the revenue tools report that previously was done. That talked.

C

About different options, including those that have now that I get scratched off the list, putting that, together with this report and coming back with something.

C

That's a bit more sort of prescriptive, given all is that the kind of work that.

C

Has to be done to put these separate pieces of work together. I just that is.

C

They kind of help everybody the audience watching and so on. That is the kind of.

B

Work and the reason that that we need some time and space to do that work is.

B

Is frankly, josey levitas area is, is extraordinarily high functioning, but it.

B

Is very small and the opportunity and and you know we were hard-pressed to get.

B

This report done because it took some time to actually do the modeling to.

B

Actually, consult with external experts and have a have a dialogue. Reality is.

B

That that the organizations are very lean- and we do need time and space to.

B

Get the to get more thoughtful approaches and.

B

And actually developed the basics and the starting point for a multi-year.

B

Perspective: okay: there was an interesting dialogue that occurred a.

C

Couple of minutes ago, I forget, was between yourself and somebody else about.

C

You and you made mention of the mayor strategic speech, which, of course is.

C

Discussed in here, whoever the marriage, just the mayor of the day, how important.

C

Is it would you if your staff were tasked now with coming back with a with.

C

A financial plan as we're a fiscal plan, which is what this is about in some.

C

Respects how how much would you feel right? You have right now by way of any.

C

Kind of strategic direction from the mayor or the council and I and I say.

C

That not you know I'll, accept criticism, let's do where it's due, but youth does.

C

That have to proceed coming back in to some extent, with with a financial plan.

C

Like that sort of detailed numbers, detailed options, I think that work that.

B

We'll consider, in the absence of a full full council conversation that will.

B

Occur at some point will be work that will be aimed at refining, essentially.

B

The toolkit and the toolkit here is the information that can be provided to.

B

Council about the the, not just the suite of programs, what we've done is we've.

B

Been able to cost the suite of programs what we've been able to dot make is.

B

Relatively simple comments, but the dialogue we were having earlier around.

B

If council were to want to raise the debt limit, which might well be an.

B

Appropriate element: how can it do that in a way that is fully responsible and.

B

Does not increased risk, that might mean a transfer in terms of land transfer, tax.

B

Allocating lanced rent transfer tax to more episodic or projects on a project.

B

Basis, rather than just building it as part of our core revenue. Frankly, that's.

B

A dialogue that takes a little bit of time and energy to to create and.

B

Structure do decisions that are yet to come, like something like development.

C

Charges have any bearing on this as well. In other words, would that be kind of a.

C

Piece of the puzzle as it were, that as somebody was looking at the long term.

C

Recognizing it's to pay for growth, but nonetheless, some of what were talking about trying to pay for here is not just operational. You know.

C

Operational growth and expenditure, but also growth in the context of capital.

C

Spending is that's one of these kinds of things as well. That's unknown, as of the.

C

Moment and as of next week, but will be known at some time in the next few.

C

Months, any future approvals by this council, the treatment of development.

B

Charges the treatment of tax, increment finance, the treatment of the imet.

B

Program will all influence the source of resources available for capital funding.

B

The judgement about the incremental four billion dollars being provided by the.

B

Government of canada now matched by the province ontario also incredibly,.

B

Important the reality of this is is that that these are moment in time snapshots.

B

And whatever we're working on in march of 2018, we can reasonably understand.

B

Will evolve and be substantially different, including potentially on intergovernmental contexts in in the fall or in the fall of 2018 or the.

B

Winter of 2019, thank you. Are there any other members of the.

C

Committee wishing to ask questions: if not we can? Oh, I'm sorry, councillor.

C

Shiner sorry there, your comments were one that you can bring something back.

J

Later then, get the full input from all of council. So what for the input, would.

J

You expect to be getting, and is there the value of getting that now or what.

J

Would the value be of getting that input? Now, I'm gonna answer the question very.

B

Narrowly, I think, counsel in this committee can consider whether or not.

B

There is a need in an appropriate dialogue for broader city council to.

B

Have an opportunity to debate the current version of the long-term.

B

Financial plan I'm comfortable with either approach. Obviously, from my.

B

Perspective, it is essential to lay out to counsel to the mayor to executive.

B

Committee, an understanding of the basic research that we have done in terms of.

B

The aspirations, the gap, some of the information, the executive committee.

B

Recommendation, or endorsement of the recommendation we have made is.

B

Sufficient for city staff to go do work that they believe is is necessary. I.

B

Would be entirely uncomfortable with a broader debate and input. I do not view.

B

That as essential or necessary for the work that city staff need to undertake.

B

To be very, very clear, noting city staff will do will foreclose options. It will.

B

All be done, especially in this initial period, largely from the perspective.

B

Developing a toolkit that will advise a future mayor, executive committee and.

B

Council in 2019, what outreach have you had so far with.

J

Members of council in regards to this report, we have undertaken a number of so.

B

This is now this builds on earlier versions of the report. Directional.

B

Versions, it builds on the work earlier noted by by one of the councillors in.

B

Terms of the kpmg and revenue analysis, a number of councillors were very gracious.

B

And did support our public outreach and consultation as well and, of course, I've.

B

Had a number of dialogues with individual councillors, so is it your.

J

Plan, or is it their value in the plan to do an outreach to the members of council.

J

Offline in lieu of having a debated council which may have a whole bunch of.

J

Motions that do or don't get adopted, because there are major reports that.

J

Come out where staff do take the time to go around and meet with the counselors.

J

That have interests or perspectives understand what they are and see how.

J

They might or may not be able to be cared for it and recommendations. So I'm.

J

Kind of wondering the value of having a whole debate and repeating this at council, a bunch of motions, some may or may not get adopted, or is there another.

J

Route where you could have further input from my colleagues, the the I.

B

I understand the point and I understand that the other route does work and I.

B

Understand it works very well in terms of some of the narrower elements, but.

B

This is, in fact, a global trade-off that that considers three different concepts.

B

The core policy choice associated with the the city in terms of its core policy.

B

Choice and then, within that policy choice the mix of both revenues and.

B

Expenditures, the relative priority be broken down into individual dialogues.

B

With with councillors, it might be a useful point, but I don't think it would be something that staff could necessarily take as as direction. Thank.

J

You thank you, councillor, sean or any other questions of staff. Okay, if there.

C

Are none, then we can move to speakers and I had on my list, which I have here.

C

Somewhere there it is accounts of davis, first and just from the council, walk down council perk. Okay, so we have those three to start off and.

C

Councillor davis over to you stand again, it feels like I should we're in a.

A

Council chamber anyway, I have a motion that the item.

A

Before worded to city council for consideration, I have asked every member.

A

Around this table, if they would move it on my behalf,.

A

And I have not yet found anyone who's willing to do that and that's.

A

Unfortunate, I do think this count. This report should be forwarded to the.

A

Governing body of this corporation, it contains yet again another analysis.

A

Of the fiscal frailty of this city, it sets out a number of key directions. It.

A

Does set out a number of options, and I believe that it should have been and.

A

Could have been put before us in a way that we could debate and that we have a.

A

Duty to debate, I feel, insulted frankly after four years in this term of council.

A

That I have not been given the obligation to engage.

A

In this report, and to have my community know how I stand on these very items.

A

Before an election, I also feel insulted, because I do believe that we should be.

A

Giving our advice to the next council- these are not issues that are new, so I.

A

Do have many things in this report that I support, and I do want to thank our.

A

Staff for setting them out in such a concise and clear way, and there are key.

A

Actions that could very easily have been recommendations and that we could have.

A

Supported debated, adopted or not, there are things in here. I do not support and.

A

I don't believe that a continued review of the optimization and the revenue.

A

Possibilities for hydro, in the way that it's structured here is something we.

A

Should be doing, I also don't think that we should continue with a strategy of.

A

Privatizing and contracting out public services, and that is not new and will.

A

Not be a surprise for you to hear that from me, but I also think that what we.

A

Have had is an unwillingness to tackle those challenges that the city manager.

A

Put forward today, each and every budget year we have had finance staff, say to us.

A

For many years we need multi service multi-year plans and what do we have.

A

Multi year plans, many of which were endorsed unanimously by council and what.

A

Come what happens is that we then come to the budget and we find those who are.

A

Courageous enough to say yes, this is what our city needs.

A

We're not courageous enough to put the money in the budget to fund it. What I'm.

A

Struggling with is a model that somehow we're going to endorse here today or you.

A

Are going to endorse here today through a tacit approval? No matter what you call.

A

It you are sending it back and saying: go ahead to our council, o to our staff, go.

A

Ahead and work in these directions, I don't care what anyone says. That is what.

A

Is going to happen, and so we're setting ourselves up for some kind of system.

A

Where, in comes the new government and they're gonna set a four year budget,.

A

What makes that any different than what we do? We have approved multi-year plans.

A

And we have approved ten-year multi 20-year multi-year capital budgets and.

A

We have approved multi-year operating budgets, have they been fully and.

A

Adequately accommodating the service plans. No, but tell us how that's what I.

A

Wanted to see we have service plans, we have adopted sets of plans. That say this.

A

Is what our city needs and now we need the financial strategy to match it. I.

A

Agree but it's not going to be a four-year plan and then another for your.

A

Planning, in fact, one of the things we struggle with with transit is that we.

A

Need to move beyond the four-year election cycle, we need ongoing.

A

Strategies that build the city- and I don't doubt for a moment that there's a.

A

Counselor around this table, who does not believe that the direction we need to go.

A

Is to build this city and I look forward, I hope, to having someone move. My motion.

A

So that we can debate this further at city council, thank you thanks councillor.

C

Davis councillor wong-tam. Thank you very much mr. mayor and I want to thank city.

K

Staff for preparing this report, I recognize that this always does require.

K

Work and a lot of thought: there's oftentimes reference to modeling, but I.

K

Don't think we ever get to see the actual modeling just in terms of the.

K

Summary and the outcomes of the modeling, and I would like to see that in the.

K

Future, I'm I agree with councillor davis and in.

K

Her remarks in terms of this particular document not landing on the floor of.

K

Council and- and I and I do so largely because I I also take note that we have.

K

Been waiting for this particular document- and I remember that in 2015.

K

Conversations were were afoot that we were going to set this city on the right.

K

Financial path forward that there was new leadership and that there were.

K

Things that will be done that was going to be different than the previous term.

K

Of council- and so we patiently waited for for what was going to be in the new.

K

Fiscal vision in 2016 there was some talk about what that vision would look.

K

Like and and very clearly the city manager provided city council and they.

K

Through the executive committee and update that that they were going to be.

K

Doing some more work, but here's a snapshot of what was before us and that.

K

Snapshot of 2016 in november is largely the same snapshot. That's here today.

K

There's a there's, probably a more detail and ends reference to through modeling.

K

And there's reference to key actions, but not necessarily recommendations and that.

K

Was supposed to come back in 2017, it never came back in 2017 and and now it's.

K

Here before us, and and instead of it actually going to city council- and this.

K

Is why it's so troubling? Is that we're now asking staff to go and think about.

K

This some more it's been, it's been a very long time. I'm.

K

A long time coming and I'm troubled by the fact that this timing doesn't seem.

K

To ever that this that we can't seem to land this landis plane, and there is some.

K

Language in the last report that I want to be able to just highlight, because.

K

This was the next step of the 2016 report, and this is from that that direct.

K

Report reaching financial sustainability is a challenge to achieve it. It will.

K

Require difficult and painful decisions, the city has passed the point where it.

K

Can defer solving its structural financial challenge being unable to.

K

Reasonably kick the can down. The road means that we must begin to address.

K

Now those were the words of the city manager in 2016. By way of this report a.

K

Final long-term financial plan will be presented to the committee, the executive.

K

Committee and city council in 2017 in the second quarter that did not come and.

K

This is the report, and so we have now a recommendation telling suggesting to the.

K

Executive committee to send this back to the city manager, and this and the.

K

Financial management, team of the city and they're going to explore some.

K

Further strategies now we're and and only only in 2019 will this report come.

K

Back without any procedural standing and then we'll think about it in the new.

K

Term of council just says to me that perhaps the words in this 2016 report.

K

Perhaps ring a little bit hollow and I apologize if I, if I offend anybody, but I.

K

Am just so concerned that we're really not making a decision at all that we are.

K

Circling around and having conversations about how to make things happen and then.

K

We punt it and we and we defer, and so it it. It is particularly from that.

K

Perspective that I'm I find this very frustrating and I'm sure many many who.

K

Are watching the proceedings will find it frustrating, but it's also the fact.

K

That you know when we hear a representative of qp who represents a.

K

Good chunk of the toronto public service, a good majority of them say that they.

K

Were not particularly consulted is also causing me some concern and who was.

K

Consulted because city staff did seek the advice and they sought stakeholder.

K

Meetings with a broad range of organizations, including the movie.

K

Theatre association of canada, vyas ontario, association of cemetery and.

K

Funerals, the canadian automobile association, but.

K

Not from kewpie, and I find that that to be particularly challenging and then my.

K

Final point, mr. mayor and to the members of the executive committee is that we.

K

Still don't have any idea on how we're going to build a budgeting process or.

K

The financial management of this with a gender equity lens- and this is.

K

After we had city council had set to city staff and directed to the city.

K

Manager, please bring back a process for us in a framework that will help us.

K

Build a more inclusive and accessible and fair budget in 2015, we said that in.

K

2016 we said that in 2017 we said that and now there is two paragraphs.

K

Literally two paragraphs in this report that says we don't have a strategy.

K

We don't have a how to get us there, so there's no implementation and we're.

K

Still thinking about collecting disaggregated data, which forms the.

K

Foundation of all that work, and with that I'll just conclude remark my.

K

Remarks I do hope that someone can take councillor crayon, davis's motion and.

K

Direct this report to council for some additional thought and consideration.

K

Thank you thanks councillor wong town, councillor perks. Thank you. Mr. morelle.

L

I'm gonna stand if only because these two very read imposing chairs here sort.

L

Of blocked me off from seeing anything one of the suggestions in the city.

L

Manager's report is at the beginning of term the new mayor and his executive.

L

Committee or maybe just the mayor by himself or herself, make a speech about.

L

You know what priorities we would like to have during that term of council and.

L

That's an interesting notion: we've had stuff sort of similar in the past. Ms la.

L

Veta we'll remember the term 76 trombones, referring to mayor miller's.

L

Very extensive package that he brought at the beginning of his second term, the.

L

Issue, that's interesting, though, is how does the public vote for an agenda that.

L

Someone who's running for mayor or running for council would be advocating.

L

For I'm not beginning of that term, well, the key thing every time I've ever.

L

Knocked on a door is people ask themselves what they think about what.

L

The previous administration and members of council.

L

Did and we have an opportunity- and this is an answer to the question I think.

L

That councilor shiner was asking about. You know what would be the benefit.

L

Of taking this report to city council, we have an opportunity, as elected officials,.

L

To stand up in front of the public, and it would be my intention to move a.

L

Motion to make that opportunity to vote for one of the three broad policy.

L

Directions outlined in the city manager's report city manager says: if we.

L

Want to stay within the revenue base that we have or perhaps even shrink it a.

L

Little bit, we can provide just services to property, or we can stay with the.

L

Suite of services that we currently have not including smart track, not including.

L

The scarborough subway, not including the poverty reduction phase 2, not including.

L

The investments in childcare that we voted on as a council, but just the exact.

L

Bunch of services that we have right now, plus something of a tax increase. We.

L

Could support that or we could support continuing to build and invest in the.

L

City with significant tax increases in one form or another, and we could vote.

L

Based on motions at council in just a few week on which of those we want, the.

L

City manager go out and start investigating, because there's very.

L

Different work, you do if you're designing a financial model and a.

L

Service model to provide services just to property. You do different work. If you.

L

Want to build a model for the city where you grow and invest the services that we.

L

Make and the investment we make back into the community in toronto in transit.

L

And social services- that's different work to do, and that would give the.

L

Members, the voting public, a real opportunity to evaluate the members of.

L

Council, the mayor in terms of the agenda that we have brought and in terms of.

L

What we say we, after this term of council, we see as the priorities going.

L

Forward to refuse to do that is to refuse to give voters a clear choice.

L

It's do more of what we have done too much this term, which is to dinner our.

L

Way through complicated policy choices, shirley hi joe.

L

Chetty peter wallace, none of them have been shy about telling us that we need.

L

To make that decision, you'll recall when joe is the chief financial officer under.

L

Shirley howe and then, when he was the city manager, he had a checklist. We had.

L

To do certain things to become sustainable, he said you need the land.

L

Transfer tax, the vehicle registration fee and the sales tax, as well as long.

L

Term financial planning and then the city of toronto will be on a firm footing and we decided as a council, to pursue all of those. We were responsible.

L

In that term of office and this term of office.

L

We have did it. I do not know whether this administration, if reelected, would.

L

Push for really investing in those services that we as council voted for.

L

Because that same administration, that said, we want new services. I said the.

L

Priority is to keep property taxes, low they've heard from the city manager and.

L

From countless other sources that the provincial government is not going to.

L

Increase revenue for us until we increase our property tax because.

L

They're sick and I remember a very clear exchange between the city manager and.

L

Councillor shiner on this they're sick of giving us money by uploading services.

L

And watching us take that money and use it just to keep property taxes low we've.

L

Tried to eat the cake, have the cake and give the slice to a friend as a voter. I.

L

Wouldn't have any idea what I was voting for and that's why we need to take this.

L

To city council, so that every single one of us who are gonna be seeking.

L

Re-Election can put on record which one of the three cities described in this.

L

Report we want to advocate for in the next term. That's why this executive.

L

Committee, if they're responsible to the people who elected them and they're.

L

Hoping to have reelect them will vote to send this to council. Thank you.

C

Councillor perks: are there any other the visiting councillors that wish to speak.

C

Because otherwise, we'll move to the members of committee- and if I may, I will.

C

Speak first and I'll speak first and and move the staff recommendation that the.

C

Exact request the city manager to report back in individual strategies and key actions contained within the long-term financial.

C

Plan through executive committee has appropriate following the start of the.

C

2018 to 2022 term of council and can I begin remarks in support of that motion.

C

By thanking the staff for their working by thanking the members of council for.

C

For a discussion that so far, I think has been has been very good. I I want to sort.

C

Of reiterate, something that's been said by the city manager and I suppose, as.

C

Importantly, as his having said it today, amy said it before. It's also been said.

C

By our rating agency, because there, the report can create an impression and even.

C

Some of the discussion here today that somehow this is a city, that's in a.

C

Financial crisis and it's not and in to use the words of the of the city manager.

C

Earlier and attracts the words of the rating agency, the city is, he said mr.

C

Wallace did well-managed and stable, and that is confirmed by our rating agencies.

C

Now that is not to say that, in terms of some of our ambitions, including projects.

C

That are presently on the books with respect to public transit, in particular.

C

And housing that there isn't more work to be done, including at our end and I.

C

Say at our end, because you know one of the things that to me will benefit us in.

C

Terms of having this further work done by the staff which I'll get to because I.

C

Asked some questions that mr. wallace on math is that I think the partnerships.

C

Which I will say- and I don't mean this to be in a self-centered way- I will say.

C

That I have worked so hard on developing and making come to fruition. The.

C

Partnerships that just for example, last week, resulted in the confirmation of.

C

Nine billion dollars coming from those other governments with respect to.

C

Transit projects in the city- and that was nine billion dollars that did not.

C

Exist in terms of commitments made to this city prior to the beginning of this.

C

Administration that has been subject to so much indirect criticism today didn't.

C

Exist: nine billion dollars. The five billion had been announced by the.

C

Federal government, the four billion or some odd, was announced by the province.

C

Last week to match that to the extent of 33 percent and that work is unfinished.

C

I'm optimistic to be quite frank, lead in the budget that will come before the end.

C

Of this month from the government of ontario, there will be further progress.

C

That we made with respect to things that will help us on an operational basis.

C

Of going forward and will perhaps all of us in the capitol area as well, but I'm.

C

Certainly optimistic there gonna be some things in there that will help us with.

C

All this, but that that really isn't the point I mean that that is something to look forward to. I hope- and I think it's something to celebrate to a point that.

C

We have made the progress we've made and that's just dealing with transit. The.

C

Nine billion not to mention the money that hasn't yet started to flow, but has.

C

Been committed to by the federal government with respect to housing, but.

C

What we have here today is something that is a framework. It really doesn't.

C

Have recommendations in it and as much as it might have taken some given some.

C

People pleasure to conjure up notions, for example, of some recommendation being.

C

In here, which it isn't that we should privatize hydro, which I'm not interested.

C

In doing it doesn't really have recommendations that what is not before.

C

Us, and- and this is where some of the words of my friends from the council.

C

Mike hawley are colleagues, I think it was councillor davis who said well. Why.

C

Isn't there before us a real set of strategies, why our specific recommended.

C

Recommendations or options aren't laid out for us well, the fact is: they're not.

C

Because this is a report that is, I think, intended to be a framework, as opposed to.

C

A prescriptive set of measures that are that are meant to be taken forward for.

C

Approval or not by the council, and that is why mr. wallace said, and I just wrote.

C

Down a few of the different expressions he used, he said there is necessary work.

C

For us to do to provide for decision making, he described critical next steps. He talked about the staffs job and.

C

Obligation to do this additional work and he said that there that there was a.

C

That just recently- and they may be one of the answers to the last questions he.

C

Was asked that there is a broader debate is not necessary. Well, he didn't die to be fair, didn't take offense at either taking it to counselor, not taking a.

C

Council he said either were acceptable to him. He went on to say that a broader.

C

Debate was not necessary in order for the staff to get on doing the work it.

C

Must do the staff and so to me what we're doing here is, I think, something.

C

That is going to be constructive and appropriate in that the staff are going.

C

To do what they themselves have said, they need to do, which is this work on.

C

Providing for proper decision-making addressing these critical next steps.

C

With their further consideration and doing the additional work that it is.

C

Their obligation to do in order to allow for a real, substantive, broader debate to.

C

Take place at the city council when the new city council is there and, and you.

C

Know this is taking into account the fact that, based on even just the people.

C

Who said they're, planning or trying to go somewhere else, there's gonna be a.

C

Very substantial turnover- and the last thing I think we need to do- is actually.

C

To approve some sort of a plan that isn't really a plan at the moment and.

C

Then have council turn around and change it or reverse, at which, of course,.

C

Councilís, I've not been here long, but is council so well known for doing that on.

C

Transit and finance in a host of other areas, you get a new group of people in.

C

And they say: oh, we don't like that plan. That was from those other people. We're gonna have our own plan. So I look forward to the work that the staff will.

C

Now do and I think it is entirely proper, and I think that this framework is a.

C

Very good start, and I commend them for the work that they've done and we'll.

C

Move forward from there, so thank you for your indulgence and now I had a.

C

Counselor digiorgio, as the first person on the list, I'm sure to be followed by.

C

Others, thank you. Mr. mayor. First of all, I will be supporting your.

H

Motion and I want to thank staff for the report that they've brought forward, that.

H

I think represents a good, a good framework for moving forward. I also want.

H

To commend you, mr. mayor for the the input and the appeals you've had the.

H

Upper levels of government that have in fact generated the monies that were.

H

Announced last week you know one of the one of the primary objectives in the.

H

City council direction that that is being promoted is maintaining affordability and one of the deputies said. Maintaining affordability is rather.

H

A nebulous term, in the context of all the increasing costs that people have.

H

Been experiencing by the taxpayer user fees going up high grow rates going up.

H

Property taxes going up not what's standing at the level of inflation, but.

H

There are all sorts of increasing costs, and then we have to think about.

H

Vulnerable seniors, we have to think about the taxpayer who ultimately pays.

H

The bills, and so maintaining affordability really is.

H

How do we remain responsive to the people that pay the bills and the way to.

H

Remain responsive is to understand that, yes, there are setting of priorities that.

H

Need to be done by counsel, but at the end of the day, the the priorities have.

H

To be set by the people who pay the bills, the priorities have to be set by.

H

Those people accepting from counsel that aspirations and service levels are.

H

Perhaps, to be dampened a little bit, we cannot. We don't have magical solutions.

H

It said it's that simple: there are constraints that we have to deal with as.

H

A council and we have a range of revenue tools and we will massage those revenue.

H

Tools, we may increase user fees at a higher rate than we might increase.

H

Property taxes remember that we've got waste management to think about and.

H

We've got different user fees for waste management. We've got water rates that.

H

Have been escalating at us and an exorbitant rate they're now being cut.

H

Back a little bit, but all to make sure that we deal with all the problems at a.

H

Big city like the city of toronto is faced with, especially in the context.

H

Context of replacement of infrastructure not only building new infrastructure, but.

H

Having to replace old infrastructure, so we have a whole bunch of demands and the.

H

Costs continue to escalate and if we increase the envelope of services that.

H

We are going to provide our citizens, which is ultimately what we want to do.

H

The costs actually don't increase on already at a linear rate, but rather.

H

Almost on the, I won't say, a hyperbolic rate, but rather on a parabolic rate. It.

H

Kind of goes up like this, but all that being said you know we have to. We have.

H

To just pull the reins in and move at a rate that is commensurate with our.

H

Ability to finance- and that's really what this city manager is saying there.

H

Are huge costs around the corner you're going to have to make decisions as to.

H

Whether you can rein those costs in a little bit or whether you will look for.

H

Revenue tools and start to increase property taxes at a rate that is not.

H

Sustainable because people out there cannot absorb.

H

Increase in costs in the neighborhood of five percent per year. Thank you. Mr.

H

Mayor. Thank you. Councillor giorgio councillor.

C

Crawford. Thank you mr. mayor, and I too want to thank the city manager and all.

I

Of his team in pulling this together, it's been incredible amount of work and.

I

I appreciate the work that they put into this but, as he said, this is nothing new.

I

We have had this discussion in the past and we're gonna continue to have this.

I

Discussion in the future, what is important- and I'm just gonna reiterate.

I

What the mayor said, because I've written it down to that, we we have to get this.

I

Message out or or we have to speak out, we are not as a city of toronto in a.

I

Dire situation, we are in pretty good financial shape and we are very.

I

Well-Managed and we are very stable- that is very clear where we are now now what.

I

The city manager said, is we can't continue down the same kind of path that.

I

We have in the past, in the future and and I'll just use the one example of our.

I

Reliance on the mlt t, we have been, I wouldn't say lucky, but we've had a very.

I

Vibrant ml tt and a vibrant, real estate or in the city, and that may not continue.

I

In the future, so we can't continue making those same kind of decisions, but we need to figure out as we move forward. How do we make the right kind of fiscal.

I

Framework- and I think this is what this report does and it's going to broaden.

I

Our fiscal discussion into the future and I actually think the timing is.

I

Actually very good to have a report like this that we're going to move this on to.

I

Staff they're going to be looking at this over the next three to four or four.

I

To five months and they'll be coming back at the beginning of a new council.

I

To have that discussion on a bigger framework on a strategic direction and.

I

Strategic plans fit in with the number of different priorities that we will be.

I

Setting and in fact I, whether this comes to council next week or not, I'm going to.

I

Be going out having the same discussion with all of my residents on the.

I

Priorities that they want, I don't need a council resolution. I don't need this to.

I

Go to council to have the discussion it's going to be happening anyway, so I'm.

I

Glad- and this is city manager has said pretty much the same we don't need, he doesn't need, does not need any more information to be able.

I

To bring back the framework we will be having you know, it'll be a new mayor.

I

Probably and hopefully that the mayor we have here and 44 councillors, what I want.

I

To make sure we happen is that we come out of the gate at the beginning of the.

I

New council session, with that discussion and and the city manager has pretty much.

I

Said that we'll be seeing that at the beginning of the new term? Because we did.

I

Have that opportunity at the beginning of this term, but you know when we look at you know a change bringing a new mayor on. There were challenges and.

I

Trying to get everything together, there was a learning curve, but hopefully, when.

I

We come back and I think and again with the city manager or the new city manager,.

I

We'll be able to do that, and I think that is, that is the key and that's the most important part, and you know what I'm looking at the discussion that will.

I

Be taking place with my residents, my focus is going to be the same as it has.

I

Been in the last four years, it's looking at: how do we maintain affordability, how.

I

Do we keep costs in check, but at the same time, how do we make the important.

I

Investments, that's the conversation I'm gonna be having with them and in that.

I

There's a complexity of how do you afford this and are there gonna be more.

I

Services, what we're gonna have to do. That's the discussion that I think in.

I

The neuse term, we will see a report from the city manager that will bring us to a.

I

Point where we can begin that four-year term and I think that's what I'm.

I

Actually, looking forward to so I honestly and again when we were looking.

I

At the principles he outlined the five guiding principles, they're they're.

I

They're good principles, I don't think we have to debate those principles because.

I

Those, in fact, will get us to the point to make the right decisions, but we are.

I

In a good position now, I think, to be able to make the decisions in the new.

I

Term and again I want to thank council, or I thank the city manager for his his.

I

Work- and we just need to get out there now and make sure that the next four.

I

Years after this council, we make the right decisions at the beginning of the.

I

Process and we move on because at the end of the day, we have to ensure our.

I

Fiscal state of stability- and I think we can do that with what we have in front.

I

Of us, thank you thanks councillor crawford councillor mcmahon. Thank you.

E

Very much and I don't have any problems with the recommendations in the support.

E

City staff- you heard them umpteen times tell us that they would work hard.

E

On reporting back on the individual strategies and key actions in the.

E

Long-Term financial plan- and there will be a new counsel, as we know, with.

E

Actually, 47 counselors, counselor, crawford and new counsel. Three new wards.

E

Fresh faces fresh ideas, fresh energy, and I feel that that is the forum with that.

E

New makeup of counsel, for this to be discussed not now when we're already in.

E

Election mode, when there's already electioneering taking place not now when.

E

City staff have assured us they're going to do the work on the report to come.

E

Back so it's the next term of council, the next makeup of council. Hopefully a.

E

Lot of new fresh faces term limits, hello and and they'll make the decisions so.

E

With that, I'm supporting staff recommendations. Thank you. Thank you.

C

Counseling man, others to speak counsel at you. Thank you. Mr. mayor I'd like to.

F

Move the following recommendation: that the city manager include as part of the.

F

Report back on individual strategies and key actions, future savings and.

F

Efficiency to improve value for money, the result from transformation in the.

F

Procurement process, as it relates to desired performance specifications and.

F

This recommendation is literally him. I did ask the city manager a few questions.

F

As it relates to that, as he relates to the transform procurement- and that was.

F

Part of his presentation as well, so I would like to thank city staff and.

F

Mainly the city manager for coming up with with this report, and that brings.

F

Some light in terms of what we have to deal in the long term. Now they all go in.

F

City manager, mr. walleskya, clearly indicated, and he has repeatedly lecture.

F

City, council and responsible long term is.

F

Plan he often told us that toronto operations could be truncated, we'll be.

F

Out of touch, if, with all the unfunded capital.

F

Projects that we have so, therefore, that we have to pay close attention in terms.

F

Of the revenue tools that are needed now, as it relates to some of the way that.

F

Being listening already in terms of sending this city council or not mr.

F

Mayor names canceled, I honestly believe that that if the.

F

Intention is to level up with torontonians on the future of the city.

F

We all know this an election year. It is important to consult with the silent.

F

Majority out there on potential financial tools and that will address.

F

All these revenue shortcomings, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he has to.

F

Cut to come city council, we all will have an opportunity while we are.

F

Knocking on doors to talk about what's important for communities.

F

And what kind of revenue tools as we move forward should be implemented? I, for.

F

One I have heard over and over again that taxpayers are sick and tired of.

F

Being taxed to death on some fronts, only I did ask one of the questions: how about.

F

Getting some permission from children within the cereal to interact, we may be.

F

To have something that that's fair, transparent and applies to everyone.

F

Throughout the ball and I'm talking to regards to municipal sales tax, that's.

F

Something that we can look at it as well, so those are the opportunities that we.

F

Have while we are knocking on doors, while we are campaigning out there.

F

Talking to people in terms of what's important to the city, to our.

F

Neighborhoods had to bring forward, I am concerned with the municipal land.

F

Transfer tax and that's been one of the fastest growing and revenues of world.

F

City, but what happens if the market slows down? What do we do in terms of.

F

Covering in all the financial implications, not only to the operating.

F

Budget but the capital as well. I am concerned with the financial gap, as we.

F

Move forward for next year we were told that years we had three hundred five.

F

Million dollar gap in problem within the next ten years that it will increase to.

F

Over a billion dollars, those are concerns that we had to be mindful as.

F

Well, so, overall, a mr. mayor and members of the community, I think that there is.

F

Lerigot lot of work to be done out there, but I will follow on this one. One of the.

F

Recommendations of the city manager when he was asked, can we do it through this.

F

Committee, by referring back city staff, all we had to go back to city council.

F

And to have, in my opinion, another empty debate with recommendations, probably.

F

That will go nowhere, I'm more inclined to get things done and I do trust stuff.

F

On this, in the fall, I'm going to support the recommendations just to a city staff.

F

To look into it thank miss me. Thank you, castor, plot co, castor shiner,.

J

Thank you marion, thank you for the staff for the report and I know my colleagues.

J

In the back row over, there would love this to have a recommendation to go to.

J

Council, which I was considering moving, but I've counted the votes already.

J

Around the table- and I doubt that it would be going there, but I'm sympathetic.

J

To it, because I sat in the back row during the miller years when executive.

J

Committee did the same thing to those of us that felt differently and didn't send.

J

Items on to council that we liked to invade guest felt like we were sitting.

J

Behind the red chairs and could never ever see anything so I'm sympathetic and.

J

That would have been my reason to move it there. However, I don't agree from the.

J

Comm I've had that you really can look at property taxes as the area where you're going to find the solution to be able to.

J

Afford the issues that you want to hear, because I asked the question when we.

J

Dealt with the budget, 85% of all the homes in the city are valued at less.

J

Than a million dollars and when you look at the cost down and why people are.

J

Buying homes, the debt levels and the impact of a half, a percent or 1%.

J

Increase of the mortgage rates, which are small on the mortgage as they may have.

J

It's making affordability even more difficult. So if you want to maintain.

J

Affordability and housing: you can't keep increasing property taxes.

J

Above the rate of inflation, because you'll be taxing people out of their.

J

Homes and many people do have fixed incomes. I do think that there are things.

J

That we can change and we look at priorities for staff. We have to be very.

J

Clear into what we want and give some more direction, but I also didn't see a.

J

Lot within that report that talked about how we could do things better, and I.

J

Really am tired of hearing from the fact. Well, you know it costs more because your.

J

Government and that philosophy has to leave us. I have that recently in a.

J

Community center that we approved in 2000 and mine in 2009, subject to getting.

J

Some of the funding from section 37 2014, we had the funding in place, so we.

J

Brought the architect on 2016, we had to increase the budget in february, because.

J

We weren't meeting the numbers early in 17. We had to increase the budget for the.

J

Architect, because the project was causing more- and I kept saying get this.

J

Project done get it out the door. There were simple things to resolve on it. Well,.

J

It's still not approved and it's coming back for another increase in the budget.

J

Nothing has been added by the community or anyone else. It's simply the fact that.

J

It's taken four years from a time you took a concept of what it should be.

J

To the time you actually have your bids in and we know how the impact of costs.

J

Have really escalated in construction, so I said you're gonna be a 5% a year and.

J

Sure enough, that's the impact that we have, because we haven't done a great job.

J

In managing the project in dealing with the little issues that are out there.

J

Such as how the garbage picked up the way, the canopy isn't the door, the urban.

J

Design issues and it's gone in circles. We can do better in that and many other.

J

Areas to try to find efficiency, so we can do more. Those are the things we want.

J

To do with the revenue that we have, the other area that I find is really being.

J

Missed and there's some impact- and there is the other levels of government- and I.

J

Commend the mayor and his constant efforts to get more money from the other.

J

Levels of government for transportation issues and it's great but do you know.

J

That 1.25 billion dollars is collected annually from the other levels of.

J

Government just on the new development in the city, 1.25 billion dollars, but who.

J

Has to deal with the impact of the need for services and roads and.

J

Transportation and sewers and and all the services we provide our community.

J

Centers with a new development: it's not the other levels of government, the all.

J

The impact we've had the intensification, the city.

J

That's money's flowing out every year, ten years, twelve and a quarter billion.

J

Dollars has been flowing out of the city that should be in the city and invested.

J

There so we have to concentrate on what we can do better and we have to.

J

Concentrate on what the other levels of government should providing for us to.

J

Support the initiatives that we have within the city- and I understand that.

J

The debate would be great to have at council, but I think that some of my.

J

Colleagues are right: we can't give all that direction yet we'll have a new city.

J

Manager will have a new council in january, we'll have new people here that.

J

Should give that direction? It's a priority, we'll have a great basis for.

J

That work to go forward based on the report that is here, we have the.

J

Leadership of the mayor, who wants that information to come forward to bring it.

J

To council and have that debate- and I think that'll be a fulsome debate- that.

J

We'll have there and, as I say, just caution, you don't think that you can.

J

Keep raising property taxes, as those might say, in the media or others, because.

J

People that own these homes can't afford it and if you're, raising property taxes.

J

And you are taking away the ability for people to afford a home if you're going.

J

More than the cost inflation, because they won't be able to.

J

Do that either it's a very difficult balancing act. Thank you. Councillor.

C

Shiner, do I have others to speak deputy me wrong and counselor for a deputy.

I

Mayor well, yes, thank you. Mr. mayor I'm, the first thing I'd like to do is.

I

Recognize peter wallace. I think this is his last executive meeting and to tip.

I

Peter I'll say thanks a lot on a more serious note. I think that there are.

I

Clearly, two views wanted and I can tell you that for some reason I've been.

I

Meeting with a lot of people in the last couple of weeks, knocking on their doors.

I

And there's there's: there are two very clear views from from the people that I.

I

Speak with and the people in this room, I'm jory the people that I've deputes.

I

That I've heard are is, is we have a revenue problem, but most people? I talk.

I

To they say that we have a spending problem, that's what they say. You might.

I

Disagree with it, but that is what they say. That is what they believe and that.

I

Is something that we all have to deal with now even to the extent and then the.

I

Second point I want to bring up, is you know there was? There were comments that.

I

Were made that this should go to the council floor and that that's this would not allow us to come up with a position for those individuals who might form the.

I

New council and my message to them is this: tell it people that you're going to.

I

Get your support from what your position is, so, if you think that we should be.

I

Raising taxes put it on your signs, I such-and-such believe in I'm in favor of.

I

Raising taxes put it on the front page year brochures. I think we should be.

I

Paying a lot more taxes do that now there are some councillors that actually.

I

Do do that and congratulations to them, but I think all those other people.

I

Should be going and say if they want to mandate that they said they want to go.

I

Above the rate of inflation, go ask for it. I said I, my guess, is most members of.

I

Council they or candidates they won't do that.

I

I you know for me and on my history on council, I've always told them where I am.

I

If I put it on mice lawn on my lawn signs keeping taxes down, because I don't.

I

Believe in high taxes, they know where I stand and if they disagree with that.

I

They can vote against me. They can vote for somebody else if you believe in.

I

Higher taxes- and you know we always use this term revenue tools all right.

I

We're worth we, you know, we're even afraid, the public service. I think it's.

I

At some level- or they don't want to put that sort of dirty word into the reports.

I

This instead of revenue tools, they should they should put taxes, because.

I

That's what they are, and so we should be having that debate. We should be having.

I

That debate, I a hundred percent agree with it.

I

As we move toward the next municipal election, it should there should be no.

I

More important issue: are you in favor of tax increases above the rate of.

I

Inflation or even higher than that, let's have that discussion. So all the.

I

Candidates can get a mandate from the people on what they support and I can.

I

Tell you you know I've. You know my last few days I maybe knocked on maybe 200.

I

250 doors one person was in favor of higher taxes, just one. So you know you.

I

Might want to feel in this room that people are in favor of more higher.

I

Revenue tools, all right, they're, not they're, not they want us to keep taxes.

I

Down and we shouldn't ever forget it. Thank you. I was gonna tell you. I only.

G

Had till three minutes, because I didn't start the clock till two minutes in, but you kept well within your time. Thank you very much david. You eric a deputy mayor by law. Thank you. I want to touch on two issues. I think there's an issue that we've been talking about about taking this item to council.

G

Or not and some people saying, oh I'm just not gonna, do it because there's not.

G

Enough votes, I actually put some thought into it and I believe and I'll share.

G

With you, which I don't think, there's a need to to be to be put out there and.

G

This is just a joke, don't take it and the other one is actually the report.

G

Itself when I was reading the report, I have to be honest. We.

G

I was a little bit surprised at the beginning. I was I was thinking that.

G

We're gonna get a report with more of these strategic things in it with.

G

Recommendations, that's what I was expecting and so when I read it, I had to.

G

Take a little bit of a step back and think, oh, I wasn't quite expecting this.

G

But after reading the report put us putting some thought into it.

G

I actually got excited over it because I think I think staff had has been telling.

G

Us what we need to do and avoid what exactly my former colleagues said, and it.

G

Is basically bring this down to the do you wanna tax increase or not? Do you.

G

Want not one a tax increase, it's not simple as argument as that, because you.

G

Might ask exactly the same person that told you that they don't want a tax.

G

Increase but they might want to make sure that that street gets paved next.

G

Year because it's so full of potholes and when you put that do you want your.

G

Street paved, maybe the question is completely different and I think that.

G

What we're having in here is a request to have that strategic conversation.

G

First and then tell us how you're gonna pay for it, and this report basically has.

G

Three proposals: the three: you know you could have no improvements. You could.

G

Have a status quo or you can have improvements with 1.4 billion dollars.

G

And I can guarantee if we were to take this to council. Almost all council will.

G

Say we want a city building because it actually doesn't tell you how we pay for.

G

It and that's why I said: how is this different from any of the plans that we.

G

Took to council any of the senior strategies, the perks part stratos, all of.

G

Those strategies that have been taken to council without a way to pay for it and.

G

Everybody votes for it, but then, when we talk about the revenue tools, everybody.

G

Says no tax, no tax. So how do you do that? What staff is saying is that this.

G

Council needs to start bringing the two together. We have to explain people why.

G

We need those tools why we need even the efficiencies everybody talks about.

G

Efficiencies as it is a cut, it might not be a cut, he might just be a way to.

G

Provide better customer service that, by the end of the day, it.

G

Might create some efficiencies? We need to start with a vision with a strategy.

G

To engage people and to be honest with you, that will happen in hopefully in the.

G

Election campaign and as you know what I'm just following, what's going to.

G

Happen at queen's park they're doing a speech of the throne they're getting.

G

Killed because it's all political, it's all political they're, doing this, because.

G

It's political! So if we weren't to take this to council and say this is our.

G

Vision, we would be accused of being all political if you really want it to be.

G

Doing this, you would have done it years ago, you're doing this, because your is.

G

It's your election platform and yet I don't need to take it to council to have.

G

An election platform I want to do city building, I'm gonna be able to take that.

G

At the doors, I think there's a track record in there, but I think that we have.

G

To set the way to tell it's a really city staff and be ready for when we come.

G

Back- and I wish we had done it this year and I think that there, if there's one.

G

Thing we learned this year is that when we got slapped down by the province on.

G

The revenue tools we should have done, we should have had a plan, beat right away.

G

And right at that time come up with a plan b. So if there's something I learned.

G

From this year is that we have to come strong in the beginning of next term,.

G

Half plan a and, if plan a includes some of the things that is not within our.

G

Control be ready to have plan b to really deliver on the vision that we set.

G

Up right from the beginning in that council, thank you, deputy mayor barlow,.

C

Are there other members of the committee in wishing to speak, who have not okay,.

C

Well, and I think we're ready to call the questions on there's two motions. I think.

C

On the table, one, oh plus, the recommendation itself, the advanced yes.

C

Right, okay, so we'll call the question first, a non-constant. Can I just ask the.

E

Question about this sorry, I didn't at the time, but is this not redundant? Is it.

E

Not in the report this it's in the report.

F

Is is not as defined as I put forward is these will address more the quality of.

F

Work quality of materials is 10 their guarantees and whatever else so that.

F

Address is mainly saving efficiencies, as as it relates to value for money and the.

F

Recommendation has to do with the performance specifications which is an add-on to it, and I each I would same stuff as well. Can I just hear from.

E

Clark's is it do you consider this redundant or threw the chair? Well? Would.

C

You like to comment on that through the chair staff recommendation.

E

But he was happy to see it. Move forward here. Didn't have an issue with it.

E

Okay, I was kind of over the same yeah. I'm just not sure why the point that is.

C

Made but it emphasizes the point for sure: buy it yeah. Okay, I was gonna light.

C

It just get the question call on it all right, all those in favor of.

E

Councillor palacios motion opposed if any carry then on the main item, the recommendation, the staff recommendation.

E

All those in favor I was recruited by recordable, all those in favor.

E

Councillor ainsley councillor bulow councillor, crawford councillor, digiorgio councillor, mcmahon, deputy mayor minam, wong mara, tory councilor part.

E

Co-Counselor pasternak councillor shiner, the motion passes unanimously.

C

Thank you very much. All right, 32.3 is next and we had held that for.

C

Deputations, this is the financial management and control bio review and.

C

Update and there was one deputy derrick moran.

M

So it says here in appendix 1: 15 auditing, 15.1, the audit function, the.

M

City's audit function is comprised of the auditor general internal audit and.

M

External audit now, but does anyone in this chamber know how many internal.

M

Auditors, there are here at the city of toronto. I believe it's about 6, that is.

M

An absolute joke and, quite frankly, an absolute joke that never should have.

M

Been allowed to happen to begin with and councillor shiner.

M

Unlike city manager, peter wallace, I do not apologize for my tone. It was the.

M

Tone I intended to take all along now the reason I'm saying that is because.

M

That is from last april, when city manager, peter wallace, handed it to all.

M

Of you about what happened regarding the bid rigging, paving scandal, the city of.

M

Toronto fell asleep at the switch and allowed these pavers to use the people.

M

Of toronto, quite frankly, as their own personal atm.

M

Since then, how many it would be scary to think that there's still only six.

M

Internal auditors, at the city of toronto, meritorious matoi, is there a chance that.

M

There's only still six internal auditors at the city of toronto. Have you guys.

M

Improved that at all, actually, as you noted earlier, this is not question time.

C

For me, it's your chance to make a deputation so I'll. Allow you to continue.

C

Please that's my point. That's my point. I mean the auditor.

M

General even commented that I don't, I think she mentioned, that she might not.

M

Even be able to find out how much was taken by these people out of the public.

M

Funds from the people of the city of toronto- you just proved my made my point.

M

For me, like, we can't come here and simply ask whether or not there's more.

M

Than six internal auditors at the city of toronto, let the record show that.

M

There is a question before exactly committee that I require an answer to.

M

And it would seem to me that by not answering a yes, sir, it could be just a.

M

Simple, yes or no answer, it would seem to me that section 341 of the criminal code.

M

Quite frankly is being violated by not answering that simple question. That's.

M

Information that the people of toronto deserve to know whether or not you guys.

M

Have actually done anything to improve that situation, but I don't want to get.

M

You know dragged out of here and arrested, like doesn't mean cold. It had the trial police services board. So section 1.2 covers the governing.

M

Principles: the four governing principles of this bylaw, our agility, accountability,.

M

To city council and the public for managing the city's financial resources.

M

Now I'm confused, it is, is it the city's resources or the public's resources.

M

Because if everyone doesn't know by now, government doesn't give you anything.

M

That they didn't take from you first so take notice. This is from black's law.

M

Dictionary: ninth edition: the definition for accountable accountability.

M

Responsible answerable, which obviously I just show that the city of toronto isn't.

M

Answerable to the public, another principle is you mentioned: is.

M

Transparency to city council and the public on the use of public resources.

M

Take notice of definition in black's law. Ninth for transparency is openness.

M

Clarity, lack of guile. I should look that up in attempts to hide damaging.

M

Information, the word is used of financial disclosures, organizational.

M

Policies and practices, law making and other activities where organizations.

M

Interact with the public take notice, the supreme court of canada.

M

Just last month, actually in villard construction, limited versus burg,.

M

Construction company 2018 cited someone named gavin lightman's article, the.

M

Trustees duty to provide information to beneficiaries. I just want to point out.

M

That I councillor crawford might remember me mentioning this at the.

M

Budget committee, about a year or so ago, you mentioned yourself, meritor e in this.

M

Toronto, star article, remember viagra gate and I would suggest that.

M

Termination is an appropriate kind of penalty for that thing, because we cannot in a circumstance where we are trustees of.

M

The public's money, so obviously there's a trust involved and the people are the.

M

Beneficiary of that trust- and I just want to point out this- was at the last.

M

Audit committee work councilor, matt lao was actually saying verbally. What I was.

M

Thinking and I made a meet amount meme out of it, that that face you make once.

M

You've read the auditor general's mandate onto the public record and.

M

Realized the auditor general isn't following their own mandate and of.

M

Course what he was talking about is brenda thompson's, favorite subject, which.

M

Is the pain for one subway stop extension to the detriment of taking.

M

Away five, which literally do the math etre one minus five equals negative four.

M

Stops that scarborough are going to have taken away from them and by looking at.

M

Your cellphone merit, or even given me twenty extra seconds, so thank you for.

C

That discussing your rhetorical question: it wasn't a rhetorical question. Objection.

C

Today, thank you very much any questions of the deaf unit. Thank you very much.

C

Were there any questions of staff on this? This item all right. Thank you very.

L

Much I'm going to be referring to the appendix that puts with it. What's new.

L

And what's renumber in section 1.4 there's a decision about.

L

How to treat divisions and toronto public health in a way that's different.

L

From other agencies, and I'm wondering why toronto public health will be.

L

Treated differently from other agencies in the financial control of iowa, so.

N

Through you, mr. chair, so this is a bylaw that is around how staff are delegated.

N

Various authorities and accountabilities financially the staff of public health.

N

Are in fact, staff of the city, even though they report to a board, but.

N

Officially, they are staff, the city, so this applies to to their financial.

N

Planning and management practices, specifically like city staff in city.

N

Division, I understand that they're their employees, but I'm forgetting which act.

L

They're under there there are a set of public health performance targets.

L

Established by the province of ontario that every regional health board has to.

L

Meet and does not put their work in a different category from the in the same.

L

Way that toronto hydro, which also has other statutory obligations, so no you.

L

Mr. chair, I don't believe so because this is about the use of the city's.

N

Budget in its authorities it in here it codifies accounts, section 3.5 point one.

L

Codifies an existing council policy about surplus policy. That's never been.

L

In the financial control by law itself before and in fact, if I recall a number.

L

Of times over the last two terms of council.

L

For specific reasons, I think one one instance was a surprise download from.

L

The province we've used that surplus policy differently. Why are we taking a.

L

Council policy, which we are able to amend without a bylaw amendment and.

L

Putting it into the financial control bylaw, meaning we wouldn't be able during.

L

A budget to do it because we would have to have a separate bylaw debate: okay, 3.

N

Mr. chair, what this bylaw tends to do is to broaden all of the city's financial.

N

Planning and management practices that includes references to our debt.

N

Management, our investment management, as well as our surplus management, so we.

N

Haven't we have codified that as part of our overall practice as and policy as a.

N

City, if council chose to to vary from that, then that would be part of the.

N

Consideration at that point in time, but maybe I need some clarity from the clerk.

L

Here, if something exists in a bylaw differential control bylaw- and we want.

L

To do differently than that during a budget, because there's something that.

L

Comes up do we have to have a statutory bylaw meeting as well? On top of the.

L

Regular budget meeting, I can see that if you are looking to do something which.

L

Would require a statutory hearing. It wouldn't necessarily require a statutory.

E

Hearing would it in this instance. Okay. Thank you.

L

In section 3.2.2 again, an existing council policy, which is the user fee,.

L

Policy is imported into the financial control bylaw. Now I understand the user.

L

Fees have have something to do with money, so does councils. Childcare policy has something to do with money.

L

So does councillors anti-poverty strategy have something to do with money.

L

Why is this policy imported into the bylaw and the many other policies which.

L

Were actually were frankly, discussed in the last report, not important so through.

N

You, mr. mayor, what this bylaw is intended to do is to cross-reference so.

N

That we have in one place, so what it's doing is.

N

Including the information that a separate section of the municipal code.

N

For example, deals with that issue, so it's not technically codifying the user.

N

Feature, that's already part and parcel of chapter 441, for example, what we're.

N

Trying to do here is essentially get the main thing, but we have. We have other.

L

Directions from council on large-scale policy like the user fee policy and in.

L

This instance, I'm thinking about our open door policy, our childcare policy. We.

L

Have a large number of policies? Why is this one? And this one alone imported.

L

Into the financial control by law, and not other policies which have been.

L

Adopted part of council practice for a number of years. Why are they not treated.

L

The same way so this bylaw 3 mr. mayor is one in which deals with financial.

N

Planning and management the user fee bylaw is around how we manage our user.

N

Fees and the considerations we place in it, so we believe it's a part of the.

N

Overall 3.2 section, which is the revenue management section in which we as a city.

N

Think about how we deal with our fees and charges and which is also something.

N

That in legislation requires us to have a policy in place around that that.

N

Includes, thank you. That's helpful. Thank you in section. Oh. Is that all I.

L

Have four more or more questions? No, but not four, more minutes! That's the problem.

C

No questions in the minutes don't match up well. Thank you very much. Mr. mayor.

K

And I want to have a better understanding of the of the timeline for.

K

The policy so it comes into effect in july and do we and and the the.

K

Consultation that led to these these were these suggested changes was largely.

K

Done through discussions with subject matter, experts as well as a senior.

K

Steering committee of staff, can you can you provide us the names of these.

K

Subject matter experts how many people were part of this review.

N

So three, mr. chair, the reference: that's in the report speaks to the work that.

N

Was done as city staff, so it was consultation across city divisions and.

N

The subject matter, experts would have been from the residual the resident.

N

Areas that these provision speeches, so whether they were staff in the budgeting.

N

Area in the area of donations, we had clerk staff, so these were city staff.

N

That were the experts as opposed to outside experts. We did in fact do.

N

Jurisdictional reviews around what other cities do to understand the go forward.

N

Approach here- and we have a financial control bylaw today, but it was very.

N

Narrow built at a time where we didn't understand the city, and now this is.

N

Bringing it up to date, thank you that that is somewhat helpful.

K

But um I think the the way it's written and the reported it actually, it seemed.

K

To point to third parties subject matter experts but just just to verify there.

K

Were no third party reviewers, it was all a conversation internally with.

K

Divisional senior staff, as well as staff, perhaps just below management, is that.

K

Correct, yes, it was all internal staff, no third party expert, okay, so that's thank.

K

You that that is actually really helpful, and so with respect to the review.

K

Process so every five years it's suggested that you take a look at this.

K

Particular control bylaw, the financial control by law and what's brought before.

K

Us now is a new set of recommendation. Is it the intention of staff or is it? Is it.

K

Is a legislative that you have to go through another mandatory review in five.

K

Years is that how this works so through you, mr. chair? Yes, so we were to be.

N

Looking at this every five years, we have done a slight amendments, but this is the.

N

Full you know full comprehensive review in a very long time, okay, and so with.

K

Respect to the the discretionary powers that will be sort of delegated to staff.

K

It looks to me that the divisional heads will have the power to expand the budget.

K

If needed, if need be by up to half half a million dollars and that's every.

K

Divisional head: is that how I'm reading is this? Am I reading this correctly? This.

K

Document so three, mr. chair, that was the existing delegated authority. It's up to.

N

Five hundred thousand right now, city, council, delegates to the city manager, no.

N

More than five hundred thousand dollars and then the city manager, delegates.

N

Division, heads depending on the size of their budget, to actually make a.

N

Commitment for an additional expenditure and there's no change there, and so the.

K

New recommendations is a divisional heads that can that have the.

K

Discretionary powers to spend up to half a million dollars it doesn't need to go.

K

The city manager anymore, because that's that's the way I'm reading- is that.

K

Correct, or am I reading it wrong so through you, mister chair, the there are.

N

Two different sections: one is around the ability to commit funds, which is the.

N

Five up to five hundred thousand for the division head, that is just being.

N

Clarified what is changed is previously in terms of doing some budget.

N

Adjustments that was being delegated only from to the cfo up to a certain.

N

Amount into the city manager we're now concentrating that all to the cfo.

N

That'll create a bit of streamlining so that doesn't have to go to steps.

N

And providing a bit more agility on the capital side. That was never there.

N

Because it was at 250 and we're making it all five hundred thousand and is.

K

There a rationale for increasing that discretionary spending by half a million.

K

Dollars across the board like there are some divisions that are obviously much.

K

Larger, I can see transportation eating up. You know quite a bit of money and.

K

Then there might be some smaller divisions that half a million dollars.

K

Would be a significant adjustment? Is there a reason why it's so uniform right.

K

Across all the divisions, so three mister terry- it's actually not uniform. It's up.

N

To 500,000 so in some cases like myself as a division head, my delegated.

N

Authority is a hundred thousand based on the size of my budget.

N

Someone like luda geronimo toronto. Water would have five hundred thousand, which.

N

Is the cap that the city manager actually had okay? So there is still some.

K

Yes, some divisional discretion. Okay, and so can you explain to me the surplus.

K

Management investment management, debt management, compulsion portion all of.

K

That is, is new and, and all of that is identified by.

K

Staff as necessary changes to the to the financial control by law, but it doesn't.

K

It doesn't explain to me why, like that, I don't see a clear justification for it.

K

So it's on page 4 of out of page 25, so 3 mr. chair once again what this new bylaw.

N

Is intended to do is to put in one place all of the city's financial planning and.

N

Management practices, in some cases its prescriptive in this bylaw. As to you.

N

Know what their parameters are, in other cases where there's an existing.

N

Provision and another bylaw, it's just cross-referencing it so the we actually.

N

Have in one place so what's new is the reference in this bylaw? That was no.

N

Longer there, but it's not a new provision. It's just really trying to.

N

Have one place that people can go to to understand it? Thank you.

C

Cops the long tank counselor davis microphone. Thank you. What I find.

A

Surprising about this- and I think you've just said it, ms la veta, that you have.

A

Embedded in the financial control by law, the budget process- and we just had a.

A

Very long discussion about the flaws or challenges with the current budget.

A

Process and we're about to launch into some new supposed planning process that.

A

Would better link service planning and budgets? Why would we embed in the.

A

Financial control by law, the existing processes, when we're about to change.

A

Them, presumably so through mr. chair, what we did was highlight kind of the.

N

Core elements of a budget process, because there was nothing, no discussion.

N

Or reference at all, the three elements include budge.

N

Directions and targets, submission requirements and the fact that we have.

N

Two stages right, I believe so excuse me, but there's a phase two coming in which.

N

We say that anything coming out of the l tfp will then look at how we augment.

N

What's there, we you, what was just laid out in the last report was that there.

A

Are two approaches you can set a target first and then you build towards the.

A

Target or you establish the services you need, and you end up with with your.

A

Financial or tax rate in the end, so these are two very distinct approaches.

A

That I, so you have already embedded that we will have targets that will be.

A

Delivered at the outset, before any direction is provided from counsel in at.

A

The beginning, so through you, mr. chair in an election year in any circumstance.

N

Of there will always be a need for staff to identify, as a part of based on a.

N

Planning for planning purposes a budget preparation process in advance of an.

N

Election, these targets are what's been written here, doesn't presuppose that.

N

They're multi-year in nature, but you would annually have to establish that so.

N

Don't believe that this restricts us as we move to a multi-year approach. It just.

N

Says that we have a practice that council establishes those targets.

N

Annually we've been working towards trying to.

A

Establish a process where we establish service levels that define what we do.

A

And I'm not I'm struggling when this process recommends exactly the opposite.

A

Process, why would we embed it in our financial control bylaw? I don't three.

N

Machado believe that they're mutually exclusive, I believe that you would still.

N

Require, even if you're, establishing priorities upfront and with multi-year.

N

Plans, you will still need to do it within a fiscal context and they would.

N

Still most likely be anything, be the need for targets. What do you not agree.

A

Though miss lavina that what's in here, reflects our current budget process. Mr.

N

Mr. mayor, that was the purpose of this report, was to reflect and bring us up to.

N

Current status, why would we know if we're willing to wait and push into the.

A

Next term, the way the budget process is going to work. Why would you not push.

A

This into the next term, so that it will match the changes that are intended to.

A

Come there are many, there are many elements of our current practices that.

N

Have not been reflected in that this report actually with all honesty,.

N

Probably should have been here two years ago by the time we actually get to the.

N

Point of implementing all the final recommendations that are we've just.

N

Discussed in the long-term financial plan, we will need to be able to update.

N

That would we need something in the interim to keep us moving and we do need.

N

Something to move us from this year to next year. When was the last time we had.

A

The financial control bylaw before us, we updated the part of this in 2014, which.

A

Part was it schedule a okay? So what are the the last question I have has to do.

A

With chapter 195, which is the procurement bylaw, you have matched all.

A

The spending authorities in both bylaws presumably have you set the definition.

O

Of a commitment such that it's clear that commitment is a contract which is.

O

The same as in the purchasing bialon, so last question: council we've had a.

A

Surplus policy, so by putting it into the bylaw, how is that any different than the.

A

Current practice, just having a policy, you always tell us it's it's locked in.

A

How is it different by putting it in the bylaws pretty much fair? I don't believe.

N

It's any different, it's just really putting everything in one place, one of.

N

The one of the goals of this particular document is to ensure that there is a.

N

Level set in the organization that everyone understands all the elements in.

N

One place and that's really what we were trying to do here all right. Thank you.

C

Councillor davis, other questions of staff, all right.

C

Those wishing to speak anybody from okay, all right, because you came here today.

C

Then you'll get you one question: can that apply when we're at city toronto.

L

Hall as well, okay, miss lavinia. I just want to clarify on the the business.

L

Councillor davis was asking on the five point two budget target: that's the.

L

Section the new section where we have the budget target established by council.

L

The word budget target does not imply specifically a tax rate or a specific.

L

Service level, but rather says council must give some general direction prior.

L

To the budget being done, am I understanding that correctly? That would.

N

Be correct. Thank you very much. Thanks, councillor perks,.

C

Okay, then, wishing to speak, I had a councillor davis so well. I am plied.

A

Suggested in my questions, what I want to say, which is I I don't think we should.

A

Be embedding a budget process that has been critiqued quite thoroughly in the.

A

Previous report- and that is exactly what we're doing with this report,.

A

So those sections should, I don't think those sections should be deferred if we.

A

Are looking at a whole different budget process, because- and much of this is very.

A

Unclear there are, I don't believe there are definitions here that describe.

A

Exactly what these things and I'm glad councillor perks, put on the record just.

A

Now that a target is not a number, and so it could be, it could take a very.

A

Different form, but these are the kinds of things that.

A

Ought to happen, we ought to, I think, have had some advanced discussion about.

A

Anyway, I I just don't think that this is timely to put this before us now with.

A

These changes, when we just had that long discussion about changes that are.

A

Necessary to the budget process, we've been waiting for the financial control.

A

By law for many many years, I was expecting that we were going to see some.

A

Changes to the spending limits, because I believe that we've delegated too much.

A

Authority to both our committees and to our staff, I know that the staff.

A

Delegated authority is here, but when I saw last week at the budget committee at.

A

The works committee that they were able to approve the biggest capital project.

A

In our history in toronto, water, without any debate going to council about that.

A

Project I wanted to see some changes that limit the authority's for various.

A

Committees and for senior staff we didn't, we did not give twenty million.

A

Dollars of approval in the first financial control bylaw, and I think it.

A

Really needs to be revisited and I don't see any kind of discussion of that and.

A

So if that's in the purchasing bylaw, then that should be before us, because.

A

They're absolutely intertwined, and we haven't had an opportunity to consider.

A

That, at the same time, so I think you should defer and put them both together.

A

And if you're everything's, all about the new term, push it into the new term,.

A

Because we haven't had a financial control by left foot through this entire term, nor the last term, and we managed to function so put them together. Bring.

A

Forward the procurement bylaw and the spending limits that we should have a.

A

Real discussion about who has delegated authority to spend up to twenty million.

A

Dollars and what authority committees have without going to council.

A

Anyway, those are my comments and thank you.

C

Thank you, councillor davis, were there additional speakers, so, okay gals the.

C

Wrong town, yes, thank you very much. um I I, I think what I am, what what is.

K

Unsettling for myself regarding the report is the is the a very simple line.

K

About how these proposed changes were assessed in consultation with subject.

K

Matter, experts and then brought forward to a steering committee of senior staff.

K

Representatives from across the city- and I recognize that sometimes when you when.

K

You have a lot of editors that read a lot of reports. Sometimes things can come.

K

Out and and be deleted, and perhaps there may be insertions and sometimes things.

K

Slip through, but but the way this that portion reads is is fairly clear. That.

K

There were some third-party reviewers, perhaps that needed to just put their.

K

Eyes over this, and and I'm okay with that, I'm okay with actually having some.

K

Subject matter experts review the documentation, but it it changes. The the.

K

Actual outcome when, when it didn't happen, so I think that's for me what.

K

What struck me is, you know who else was involved with this review and and there.

K

Are times where were words are perhaps inserted and and and the intention was.

K

There, but it just didn't happen so that that, for me, is a little bit of a flag.

K

But I think what is what is even more puzzling and perhaps it's my own fault.

K

Because we don't deal with this by law very often, but I do think that since.

K

It's before us and there's there's a lot of delegated discretionary powers that.

K

Are now being recommended by staff to be given to staff? Is that perhaps, is not a.

K

Bad idea for us to take another look at it in terms of the consolidation of.

K

Where these particular pieces are coming from, it's not clear to me, based on the.

K

Report, where are all these different consolidated measurements being.

K

Consolidated from there's just all coming into one place and they could.

K

Very much it could very much be that document that pulls it all together. So it's all in one place, so we know exactly which bylaw is.

K

Giving us what controls and and and how your you're supposed to operationalize.

K

That mechanism, but it's not the way I read it, I can't I don't know where it's.

K

Coming from, and so because it's being identified as new, it all looks like it's.

K

Something new that's being proposed so that to me is a little bit confusing and.

K

I would rather, it would be clarified, and this is not necessarily emotion, but.

K

Rather, a requests of staff would you have the ability- and I hope that there.

K

There can be, can there be a document, that's pulled that pulls together where.

K

These recommendations are coming from, so if there are already things that are as.

K

You've identified that perhaps are sitting in other places, but they're all.

K

Being consolidated us one bylaw, it might be very helpful as creating a little map.

K

For us by next week, where these particular powers and delegated powers.

K

Are the source of where it's coming from and perhaps if it's really truly new.

K

Then let's say it's new new and if it's just being rewarded and moved to this.

K

Particular control bylaw, then we know you're, all you already had it, but now by.

K

Way of convenience, it's being consolidated, that, for me, would be very.

K

Helpful if it could be produced by the by next council meeting and it sounds to.

K

Me you've already got the work because it's all sitting in the background, otherwise you wouldn't have the report, but just in light of clarity, I think it.

K

Would be helpful for us for someone like myself thank you and others may find it.

K

Very helpful as well. Thank you. Thank you, councillor, wong town, anybody else. No, I.

C

Think we've heard from all of our visiting members other members of the.

C

Committee wishing to speak to to this matter all right, if not, then we're ready.

C

To call the question on this: it's item again: 32.3 financial management and.

C

Control bylaw review and update and the staff recommendation is in front of.

C

You all those in favor opposed carry 32.4 e^x, 32.4 third party sign tax.

C

Review and proposed amendments there are two definites to be heard.

C

The first is leroy casanova director of real estate, astral media outdoor and the.

C

Second, if he wants to come down and just stand by in the bench, just behind the.

C

Deputy's seat is very wild: a patterson outdoor advertising. It's just yeah now.

C

Who's who just I'm leroy casanova, I represent astral media. Thank you. Mr.

C

Casanova you're most welcome here, and you have five minutes. Thank you. Members.

P

Our good afternoon, members of the executive committee, thank you for giving me the time to address you this afternoon.

P

As I said, I represent astral media. I am the director of real estate. Is our.

P

Understanding that the recent sign class tps tea proposal is intended to be.

P

Revenue neutral for the city, which, in fact it might be. However, I would like to.

P

Express to this committee that there are aspects of this new scientist initiative.

P

That are currently not revenue neutral for our organization and others as a.

P

Leading market share operator in this jurisdiction of large format, digital.

P

Structures we feel the proposal shifts an unfair burden of tax to one or two.

P

Companies, including ours, the staff report effectively asks this committee.

P

To pick winners and losers among the main companies in our industry, the.

P

City's duty pst proposal, which provides for an eighteen to sixty two percent.

P

Increase on class 5 and newly created classic structures will have the effect.

P

Of adding 12 percent to our overall tax cost a cost we find difficult to absorb.

P

Especially when you consider the current tps t, bylaw warrants only increases.

P

Equal to the level of inflation, this comes on the heels of a recent audited.

P

Industry report presented to the city cfo that the tps t is.

P

Currently represents 18% of its overall revenue, where 7% is largely what is.

P

Deemed to be fair taxation, we appreciate the city's attempts to reposition the.

P

Tax on some lower-class structures, however, the current proposal will cause.

P

Significant hardship to our business and we do not agree. The proposal is.

P

Appropriate under the circumstances we agree, we are the opinion that the.

P

Proposed amendments should have a more narrow focus, specifically, it should.

P

Introduce a new sign class for smaller digital digital structures. Only if you.

P

Don't agree with a proposed adjustments to class 1 2 & 3 if the end result of.

P

Those adjustments is an unbalanced playing field, large format, digital.

P

Propose classic signs comprise less than 2 percent of the overall sign inventory.

P

In the city, therefore, any plan to leverage such small numbers against the.

P

Over 1,700 remaining structures is bound to have a detrimental effect on the.

P

Companies that specialize in this area, digital signs are unlike regular.

P

Billboards due to their flexibility, they provide substantially more opportunities.

P

For community messages and including some cases and were alerts excessive.

P

Taxation of this product that the proposed level could potentially reduce.

P

The future development of the digital market, thereby reducing significant.

P

Revenue opportunities for both private landlords and the city in light of these.

P

Concerns we respectfully request a change in the methodology behind the.

P

Reassessing of this tax, so it does not have the effect of severely hampering.

P

One organization over the other: the report lacks a rationale for the tax.

P

Rates on a class-by-class basis and does not fully address policy implications.

P

For this reason, we are asking that the committee of the furthest item in a request a for further consultation and steps to be taken to ensure an even.

P

Distribution of the increased t, pst burden among all sign classes. This tax.

P

Is set to be enacted in 2019, so there is no rush. Let's please take our time to.

P

Get it right. Thank you for your time. Thank you, sir other questions of the.

C

Decadent councillor pasternak yep, thank you mr. chair, I'm just finding.

E

It hard to believe after reading through here that this is a hardship for your.

E

Organization, a multinational organization, can you provide more.

E

Details on how this could put you into a vulnerable financial or fiscal situation,.

P

Well, when we constructed these signs, we were aware there was a tax levy on the.

P

Horizon in the area of 25 thousand dollars a year- and it's been increasing.

P

Steadily at inflation, which is about 1.6 percent, now of a sudden out of nowhere.

P

They the city, wishes to increase, like I said some that amount by 16. Oh sorry, 18.

P

To 62% we did not budget for that when we, you know, made plans to just to to.

P

Build these structures, we did not budget for that sort of increase to be dropped.

P

On us out of nowhere a do see page 11 of the report or staff of britain since the.

E

Adoption of the tps t in 2010, the annual rates of each sign class have increased.

E

By nine point, one percent to keep pace with inflation by comparison, the.

E

Consumer price indexes increase by approximately fifteen point three.

E

Percent over the same time period, what are you, what are your thoughts of that.

P

Comment, I don't want to go back and rehash history or beat a dead horse, but.

P

The way the tax was enacted in the first place was completely off base. The.

P

Numbers that city staff used to come up with these with the industry's revenue.

P

Was not accurate, so we have ended up where we are today.

P

With a tax that is excessive, as I explained we, the industry recently.

P

Completed an audited report that shows the the revenue that we generate, the.

P

Cbst represents roughly 18% of our revenue. 7% is what is.

P

Considered fair 3 to 7%, that is fair taxation. We are up around 18%, so at this.

P

Point we realize you know the the the cow has left the barn and we cannot go.

P

Back in time and get that money back, but we need to be able to manage our costs.

P

Reasonably moving forward- and we cannot do that if proposed increases of 18 to.

P

62 percent are being presented to us. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you.

C

Councillor pasternak and the other quite clear when I walk yeah, you said the.

I

Average increase is a 7% or 4% which one well, I think fair taxation rules dictate.

P

3 to 7% where'd, you get that from. I think it's part of the hamson report.

P

Empson report, I believe hampton report, what did which they were reported on.

P

What on fair taxation I see and economic study? Sorry, I'm not a hundred percent.

P

Familiar with it, but this is, I see, and you have any idea what the policy.

I

Rationale is for taxing for such massive increases in five and six versus not you.

I

Know inflationary increases for the rest of them. I I've read, listen, I don't have.

P

Read the staff report- I quite frankly, don't agree with it, but there was a.

P

Rationale there, I think they, I think they looted the fact that they're more.

P

Distracting or there's I don't know they have attributes that are not so you.

I

Believe the rationale is because they are more distracting. They charge more.

I

For that, it's either that or they believe they generate an amount of it's.

P

Either that or they believe it generates an amount of revenue that is significant.

P

I see, and so you have it so they're by 2019.

I

Let's see of 54 and then is that in first class number.

I

Five and then you're adding a lot so in class five you're at they're, adding five.

I

So that what there would be sixty five there's four forty two structures. I.

P

Believe in class five, under the current under the current system, yeah under the.

P

Proposed system, I believe nineteen would go to class. Six fourteen would go to.

P

Class five or remain in class five, and there would be another nine or ten that.

P

Would go to class 4 as they are providing for smaller digital, so those.

P

Would drop down a class so there would be a savings to companies that have.

P

Signs in that class we do not operate structures in that class. We only operate.

P

Structures that would be considered class five and six and how many, how many.

P

That so in class in class six, we would be operating 11 of 19 in class five. We.

P

Would be operating five of 14? I see so it's a significant hit for us to take on.

P

Such on one shot, would you and show you'd rather see that if we need that.

I

Spread across the board, I would like to see it spread more evenly across the.

P

Board, I'm not a mathematician. I don't know how you go about doing that, but I.

P

Think there should be a way to do it, so if the rationale is is because it.

I

There's sort of an impact and you're taking most of it, you'd rather see like.

I

A more even impact across the board. Yes, yes, I see. Okay, thank you thanks. I.

C

Inadvertently didn't ask it for some of our visiting members of council want to.

C

Ask question: first before I turn to the deputy mayor and I think we've got both.

C

The councillors, davis and perks, who do wish to ask questions so we'll start.

C

With conservationist, thank you you I'm over here. You would.

A

Note you would agree, I'm sure, though, that there have not been any.

A

Inflationary increases since 2010 and that if we had done even basic.

A

Inflationary increases it would be about, you would have experienced a 15%.

A

Increase okay, but what would the rationale be for not for increasing.

P

Anything above inflation, I'm just saying that you have foregone five years: seven.

A

Years, eight years or we have forgot eight years of inflationary rate.

A

Increases I agree it. I appreciate what you're saying, but and that we may want.

A

To catch up, I appreciate what you're saying, but I don't agree.

A

Okay, so you've raised the issue of how much money is raised on one of the large.

A

I guess their classic 6:06. How much do you make annually on a big billboard on.

A

The gardner it varies. Well, that's what many we submitted. We've submitted to.

P

Reports audited reports they're there for your viewing. You choose not to.

P

Believe what we present- that's, that's that's up to you, but we have presented.

P

An industry paper which depicts our revenue and what the t pst represents as.

P

Part of that revenue, so it's out there. If you choose to to to view it, what kind.

A

Of return, do you think you should get on a side? I'm I that's not my call. I guess.

A

I'm struggling to understand, though, in the in the context of what's before us.

A

We had originally talked, I'm surprised, you said it was a surprise.

A

The first proposal that came forward was a 25 percent increase, and so this is.

A

Significantly less and I'm quite disappointed. Actually that is a net.

A

Neutral revenue report before us, so I understand your concern about the.

A

Relative burden between classes, but surely you would have expected that the.

A

City was going to try and increase the overall revenue that it.

A

Was going to generate I-s, I cannot be surprised, but that doesn't make it right.

P

Oh okay, thank you and I had counselor burke snakes so to.

L

Be clear we don't, we didn't last year, have a category called class six. This is.

L

A new category, this will be a new category to be introduced in 2019 in.

L

2019 and the distinction between the new category is they're much larger than.

L

Others in the existing class, five: four that I think the maximum for class five.

L

Is forty-five square meters and the maximum of these will be 75 square.

L

Meters decide so a class five would be 75 square meters for a ground sign. 45.

P

Square meters for a roof sign, okay and a hundred, and so anything over 75 would be.

P

Aggregate, so a double-sided sign would go to class six right so effectively.

L

What we're doing is we're saying that the signs that are much larger, the.

L

Electronic signs- these are all electronic signs. Digital are much larger.

L

Digital will be taxed at a higher rate than the ones that aren't as large as.

L

Them is that effectively what's happening here. That's what you yes.

P

That's what you're saying you object to that object to the level of increase.

P

When the the class fives are, there's no increase, there's no such thing as a sigh.

L

As it is six it's creating two new categories: there will be a new category.

L

That's will be taxed at a higher rate because it's considerably larger I've.

L

Got that correct right, it's larger, I'm not gonna, say it. Some of them are.

P

Considerably larger in the sign district, however, the minimum threshold is is.

L

Different is considerably larger for a class six than the minimum. I'm gonna see.

P

It all suitably larger, I will say it's larger.

L

Okay, well we'll each keep our own language there, and it would seem to me.

L

That a sign that is much larger has is visible to many many more people and.

L

We'll get better revenue. Is that correct? Otherwise, why would it depends where it.

P

Is it really it's location, location relative to assess I a smaller sign in.

L

The same location, a larger sign in the same, could charge more for it. Yes, you.

L

Would charge more in the same patient prank you very much. Thank you.

C

Counselor perks now I think that's the questions from our visiting counselors.

C

Today are there members of the committee wishing to ask questions of this deputy.

C

All right, thank you very much, sir appreciate. Thank you submissions. Next, we.

C

Had mr. berry wilde, patterson outdoor advertising welcome, sir.

H

Thank you good afternoon and I appreciate the opportunity speak before.

H

You, my name, is barry wildin. For the last 12 years, I've held the role of chief.

H

Financial officer for paterson outdoor advertising over the course of the last.

H

Year, a member of our members of our industry have had an open dialogue with.

H

City staff regarding the sign by law and how the third-party signed tax impacts.

H

Their industry, this includes providing a pwc audited report of the revenues of.

H

The members generate from the billboards in the city and the corresponding tax.

H

Rate and to repeat what lee royce has told you, that report demonstrated that.

H

The tax in its current format equated to 18 percent of the gross advertising.

H

Revenues generated from billboards in the city. We certainly appreciate the.

H

Time, the city finance staff dedicated to understanding the impact on the industry.

H

I've been asked to speak for paterson outdoor out front media and branded.

H

Cities three of the four largest out-of-home companies in toronto and.

H

Unlike astro, we are in favor of the proposed changes to the class.

H

Definitions as proposed, including a significant jump in the taxes that we.

H

Paid on our larger digital billboards, although we would like to see that.

H

Phased in over time, the recommendation was in total revenue neutral to the city.

H

And therefore does not place further financial burden on the members. The.

H

Lowering attacks on smaller billboards should result in two benefits: one. It.

H

Should result in tax gains for the city, the current tax on smaller billboards.

H

Digital billboards is simply too high to support investments of this type and for.

H

That reason there are very few of them. If passed, we will seek to find suitable.

H

Opportunities to convert existing signs to digital, resulting in greater tax.

H

Revenues to the city and through consolidation of our static billboards.

H

Result in fewer the from in the city again, my thanks to city staff for the.

H

Cooperation and true genuine willingness to understand our industry and to your.

H

Attention this afternoon, thank you. Thank you very much. Are there questions.

C

Of the deputy counselor davis, could you explain again I'm sorry I didn't hear it.

A

Do you intend to convert many more of your current signs to digital? Could you.

A

Explain where well we're allowed we would want to and, as I've always said,.

H

With the the opportunity with digital products for us is to have the same.

H

Number of advertising opportunities with fewer sticks in the ground, so we would.

H

Certainly, look to we have a number of unprofitable setec billboards that we.

H

Have to maintain in the city just to provide our advertisers in toronto and.

A

Opportunity are you proposing to seek permission to convert them into digital.

A

In areas that are where they're now not now, no no we're not proposing any.

H

Changes to the bylaw on that that respect at all, just where they're.

H

Currently permitted the tax today would cause us not to build a smaller like a.

H

10 by 20 billboard, because we just would not be able to generate adequate returns.

H

The 10 by 20 digital billboards, will now have a news lower tax and because of.

Q

That we would probably look to find opportunities where we could generate a.

H

Sufficient roi and therefore we would look to probably remove some of our less.

H

Profitable or unprofitable billboards elsewhere in the city and build so.

A

There's an incentive in here to build larger ones. No, the incentive is to build.

H

Smaller there are very, very few small digital billboards in toronto because.

H

They pay the same tax today as the larger ones do so, those smaller digital.

A

Billboards you intend to put where, where they are permitted under the current.

H

Bylaw, okay, so in the sign corridor, whatever that gardiner gateway that.

A

Somebody came up with some terminology for that. We expanded it to commercial.

H

There's some national commercial areas, an austrial areas, were the only other.

A

Additional areas that I recall that we have.

A

Granted permission for is that, where you're intending to put, I think, that's.

H

Probably where they would end up going a 10 by 20 digital billboard with the.

H

Current taxes would not make sense on the gardiner expressway advertisers.

H

Think we'd be competing against all very large format digital there and it.

H

Wouldn't be economically viable to do that in industrial areas, where the.

H

Traffic would be a little bit lower, we would say then they sell for a lower price. It might make sense under this new tax law, a lot to do that or tax rate to.

H

Do that I'll ask the same question about the and I know you're, taking a different.

A

Position you're taking a position in support of what's before us, but didn't.

A

You not expect that we would see some net increase overall in the tax revenue.

A

That we are seeking, as a government coming out of this report, considering.

A

The initial report we had before us well, the tax rate since its inception, has.

H

Gone up by the same the same as the mill rate has increased, so our tax rates have.

H

Gone up each and every year we have not seen an increase, above and beyond the.

Q

Mill rate there has not been an increase in inflation in the last five years. No.

A

That's not true our tax that the taxes have gone up each and every year, by its.

H

It's part of the third party signed tax, but what I'm, what my question was? Did.

A

You not expect that the city would try and generate overall, more revenue out of.

A

The signed tax to deal with our current fiscal situation that that would not.

H

Have surprised me and so between the last report, and now what we've done is.

A

Figure out a way to come up with rebalancing or shifting. But no.

A

Additional new revenue overall correct, thank you. Wow.

C

Thank you come to davis anybody else from the visiting ranks of the.

C

Counselors, okay, members of the committee wishing to ask any questions of this.

C

Deputy okay! Well, thank you very much. Thank you for time that would bring us.

C

Next to questions of staff- and I believe I heard councillor davis saying that she.

C

Had a question of staff and councillor burks has one so please go ahead.

C

Maybe I'll just ask the inflation question. Your report says there there.

A

Has been an increase, but it hasn't kept up with inflation. Maybe that's more.

A

Accurate, it should have been fifteen point three percent over this time frame.

A

And it's been 9%. Is that accurate? Yes, through the chair, the deputy en't was.

O

Correct it has gone up by the tax rate increase, which is lower than inflation.

A

Right, our tax rate increase has been lower than inflation.

O

Yes, the tax rate is a whole increase each year, blended rate for for all.

O

Classes is lower than inflation right, so why wouldn't we have brought? Why would.

A

We have brought forward a report that actually contributed to us dealing with.

A

Our financial situation that netted out additional revenue for the city as the.

O

Deputy indicated they have been, they have provided information audited.

O

Information that shows that this is a burden to them. As a result, we brought.

O

Forward something that kept the same level of taxes but actually shows higher.

O

Taxes on those signs that are proliferating more.

A

So your decision on what to bring forward was to reduce the.

A

Burden on the industry, as opposed to providing some revenue to the city.

O

Through the chair part of setting a tax rate, especially on an industry that is.

O

Showing that they're taxed at 18 percent is to ensure that higher taxes do not.

O

Result in your properties and lower taxes as a.

O

Whole, I'm sorry that doesn't result in fewer properties and lower taxes as a.

A

Whole through the chair, there is a universe of signs right now, some of.

O

Which are clearly unprofitable, higher taxes would actually reduce the number.

O

Of signs and result in lower taxes as a whole, collective, okay, well, I'd like to.

A

Actually see that evidence, if I could, between now and council, where that.

A

Threshold is, but maybe if I can ask the sign unit people are we going to see a.

A

Proliferation of digital signs, smaller, maybe but within the industrial areas or.

A

Other areas that we currently have not seen digital sign, which I don't think.

A

Anyone disagrees have more impact on on drivers on pedestrians, on residents.

E

Mr. mayor, the the answer to your question.

M

Counselor is the bylaw. The sign by law was amended a few years ago to expand.

M

Permissions for electronic signs for smaller electronic signs throughout the.

M

City there's no proposed expansion of those.

M

The tax is now been shifted or redesigned in such a way that those.

M

Smaller signs are from what we're hearing economical. So this was my worry.

A

At the time that these walls did, we now allow digital wall signs. Yes, we do in in.

A

In a broader in more areas in the city, is that correct on the commercial, social.

E

Areas yes and employment areas, and so are we going to see more digital signs.

A

On walls of buildings, it's it's very difficult to say, but we have a bylaw.

E

That permits them mr. mayor to to have these signs and now now a structure of.

A

Taxation that will encourage them a different structure of town.

E

Session, that's more lifts the burden on that type of sign that correct it.

A

Reduces the burden for that kind of sign through the chair. Yes, it could.

E

There could be an increase in that, but we don't know that at this point, how.

A

Many of those signs do we have now, according to the sign unit, we don't have.

A

That many and in the commercial areas of the industrial areas, sorry the.

A

Industrial areas we permitted them, we've seen any growth in those I gained.

E

Through that, through the chair very few okay.

A

But there you recognize that the shifting of the burden of this tax may.

A

Change where signs go? No final question: there's a potential for that through the.

A

Chair, yes, but we don't know at this point, you know the industry is saying.

A

That that could happen, but it would still all have to be in compliance with.

A

The sign bylaw, thank you, councillor davis. Did I see any other? Yes. Thank you.

L

Very much the two I'm not sure who wants to answer.

L

This an answer to a previous question of councillor davis. The answer back was the.

L

Reason we don't want to increase signs beyond the inflationary event amount is.

L

We don't want to close the number of signs and therefore reduce the total net.

L

Revenue from the sign tax is that what I've understood correctly through the.

L

Chair, yes, okay, here's what I don't understand! You have a table in your.

L

Report showing the number of signs in 2018 and the number of signs is expected.

L

In 2019- and you actually have it increasing from two thousand one hundred.

L

And forty four to two thousand two hundred and forty four, so the trend in.

L

Sign industry is to increase the number of signs.

L

We're not pricing them out. Are we the table? I look at has the same number.

O

Of signs just a shift between classes, four, three, two and one.

O

And some items going from five one: six and four: no the table, I'm looking at.

L

Which is on page five? Well, it does show a decline in in category two, every other.

L

Category is a sort of category five, okay, so you're saying the same number of.

L

Signs now is that an artifact of the fact that we restrict the locations of.

L

Signs that is just shifting the signs based on the redefinition of the classes.

O

Right because we don't allow, we have very strongly defined sign districts and.

L

Outside those signed districts, we don't accept new sign applications. That's.

L

Correct through the jury, yes, that's correct and.

L

Mostly, what we're seeing in terms of sign applications now are people coming.

L

In to either convert, say three paper signs to one larger digital sign, so it.

L

Should move towards probably higher revenue sciences, what we're seeing what.

A

I've seen recently through the chair is that there are signed removals to.

A

Compensate, I think, for a larger sign elsewhere. That's right! So it's not so.

L

Much the case that the current restrictions that we have in place are.

L

Driving signs out of business, what they're doing actually is moving them.

L

Towards higher value, better return on investment, larger signs, whatever that.

L

And I've represented the industry answered in response to a question of.

L

Mine earlier that the larger signs generate higher revenue, so that was his.

N

Answer correct: okay, so from what we heard from the industry right here, right.

L

Now and answers to you is that, while the number of signs is the same, the revenue.

L

Because they're moving to more lucrative sign classes, the revenue is going on.

O

Certainly, the information we were given at a point in time was that the industry.

O

As a whole is paying 18%, I'm not interested in what they're paying what.

L

I'm interested in is we just heard from you that the number of signs is the same.

L

We've heard that the applications are moving from less profitable to more.

L

Profit or smaller to larger signs- and we heard from the industry that larger.

L

Signs generate more revenue, so you know I hate to say it so facto, but therefore.

L

The amount of revenue generated in the areas where we permit signs is going up.

L

Correct perhaps oh man you're tough, okay, thank.

L

You brooks did, I have other questioners from.

C

Our okay, that's fine! For back there soon- and I do I have questioners of this.

C

Deputy and from a committee now ok well seeing none. I will thank you very much.

C

All of you for your deputations today and we will move to questions of staff.

C

That was questions of staff, the deputies we've heard from now we're moving to speeches. I'm sorry speeches from members of visiting with us today and councillor.

C

Davis will be first, I think councillor perks, pointed out.

A

What I also believe, which is that, at the end of the day, the permissions that are.

A

Available will allow this industry to upgrade their signs to generate more.

A

Revenue and I'm shocked that we have a report.

A

Before us, that does not generate additional revenue for the city of.

A

Toronto, the intention, as I recall in the last round, was that we were going to.

A

Generate up to 25% increase in revenue- and I don't understand.

A

Unless I have that wrong- and I made that we were going to generate a significant.

A

Additional revenue for the city of toronto- and I certainly have not been.

A

Provided with any evidence that the industry can't afford it, we can't afford.

A

We can't afford not to have increase in revenue from this sun tax and I worry.

A

Now that we're going to see a proliferation of larger digital signs,.

A

That have greater impact on everyone at ground level and no compensation for the.

A

City for that kind of impact, and so I'm I would like to speak with staff between.

A

Now and counsel, if I could to get further clarification on what why it is.

A

That we're convinced the industry is going to go, broke or they're gonna lose.

A

We're gonna lose participants in sign industry and we'll see a drop in revenue.

C

Thank you. Thank you. Councillor, davis. Others can counter burke's do a speak. Thank you very much. Mr. mayor it it's funny some.

L

Of the different items today, all kind of tie together the if you track back for.

L

The agenda history on this item- that's in front of us now it originates with.

L

The city manager's original revenue tool proposal, e.x 20.2 and in that he signed.

L

A report saying that we should consider increasing the revenue from sign the.

L

Billboard tax by 25%- and here we are today essentially just coming in at.

L

Inflation now we've heard that the way our our sign tax is sculpted. We are.

L

Driving the industry to be more efficient, because you know the old paper.

L

Signs that they've had up for 30 years, they're, replacing with ones that get.

L

Better revenue, in other words, more eyeballs, in other words, more human.

L

Attention, in other words, a larger impact on the.

L

Public spaces that those signs project into and it's completely fair and I.

L

Accept the point that we should tax, the largest of them at a higher rate, because.

L

Their impact is greater, but what's lost is its, while all that hand waving and.

L

Magic is going on. We've lost the principle that we need more revenue to.

L

Pay for the services councilor crawford was a big advocate of this third party.

L

Sign tax because it was in part how a we're gonna pay for increasing our.

L

Funding to the arts, so here once again, the nub of the issue is councillor.

L

Crawford, happily, moves increases to funding to arts organizations during.

L

Every single budget, but when it comes time to get the revenue to pay for those.

L

Increases well we're gonna, wait and see. I'm hopeful that someone on the.

L

Executive committee will move to reinstate the original consideration.

L

Which was a 25% increase overall in revenue, because if we don't do that, we.

L

Can't continue to support their very good organizations that counts the.

L

Crawford and other are always willing to put more money into putting us further.

L

And further behind once again we're at a place where we, as.

L

A council have to decide where we want to eat the cake or have the cake and in.

L

This instance, I think it's entirely fair, that if private companies are going to.

L

Advertise third-party products into public spaces in order to generate.

L

Revenue and we've recognized that they're moving to higher and higher.

L

Value products which generate more and more revenue, we should be taxing them at.

L

A higher rate and we're getting that 25% increase, which the city manager first.

L

Proposed that we should consider a couple of years ago, thank you thanks.

C

Councillor burke's arthur remembers the committee wishing to speak councillor to.

C

George, oh yeah. I just want to make some brief comments. Mr. mayor.

H

First of all, I will be: I don't have a problem in having some extra.

H

Consideration given to the way the the rates have been redistributed, and I want.

H

To highlight, or at least emphasize, that we have an existing stock of signs out.

H

There and what's being proposed in this report, is that we recategorize some of the existing signs so that some of them are.

H

Taxed at a lower rate and some others are taxed at a higher rate and they've.

H

Brought forward the principle that a larger sign, if it's an electronic sign.

H

Because it has possibility of generating greater revenue should be taxed at a.

H

Higher rate so, to the extent that all we're doing is redistributing the tax.

H

Amongst us, the existing stock of science- it is revenue neutral. On the other hand,.

H

What I hear my colleagues saying is: how do we get more revenue out of the.

H

Existing stock of science: well, the answer is you basically incentivize the.

H

Removal of signs in category 1 or signs in category 2 and allow them allow those.

H

To move to 3 or 4 that'll get jen that'll generate more revenue. Well, no.

H

Not more signs or the other alternative is to tell a lot more science. Of course,.

H

But that we've we've debated that ad nauseam and people don't want to see.

H

More signs, but within the context of the existing set of signs, we can generate.

H

More revenue, by allowing movement across the categories moving upwards, at least.

H

That's my understanding, so there is some flexibility there to generate some.

H

Additional revenue we just have to be open-minded. Thank you. Mr. mayor.

C

Thank you councillor, george. Oh councillor, crawford. Oh, I think you, mr.

I

Murr have a motion that I'd like to put up please at city council requests the.

I

Treasurer to further consultant with the impacted sign owners, particularly the.

I

Class, five and six, and to review the distribution and balance in a third.

I

Party sun tax rates with other classes report back to the 2019 budget process.

I

And 2019 budget process was specifically what I wanted to put in there. This isn't.

I

An issue that's imminent with us right now. It is coming back in 2019.

I

And I wanted to just have a bit more discussion or consultation with the.

I

Industry and to bring it back in the 2000 budget process, so we heard today.

I

From the two deputies that some are happy because, through the redistribution.

I

Of reclassification there are charges or taxes, we're gonna be going down on their.

I

Signs and some are going up now: it's it's how we define what that is, and.

I

Whether or not that's appropriate that, I think you know, is probably the debate that we're having here and whether neat needs.

I

To be go up a lot more or down, I didn't want to get into that discussion now. I.

I

Just wanted, because this is not something that is coming very quickly. I.

I

Just wanted to go back and have that and I talked to staff with this motion by.

I

The way they were fine with that to just go back and have that discussion again.

I

It may come back that we accept, or we support the recommendations that are.

I

Before us, or may being that there may be through the budget process, some changes.

I

So I'm not suggesting that there will be changes, but just to have that.

I

Consultation because I think I heard just if anything through the deputations.

I

That maybe we need to look at this and consult a little bit further. So that's.

I

What the motion is- and it's pretty clear I just want to clarify what counsel of.

I

Perks mentioned that the arts funding has never been connected with this.

I

Particular tax, in fact I've always advocated to make sure it's never.

I

Attached to this particular task, because this tax could go up, it could go down.

I

And if we get rid of signs which is not likely, but I don't never wanted to have.

I

A tax connected to this I've always advocated to make sure if arts funding.

I

Is what we want to do? We connect it to the tax base, not a dedicated tax, so.

I

Thank you. The question from the chair of clarification on your motion. Does it.

C

Rule out pursuing as part of that further consultation and further.

C

Discussion not that I can't anticipate what the results of the consultation.

C

Might be a way of looking at increasing the revenue I mean you are the once once.

C

And still budget chief and we're always looking for money as councillor burke's.

C

Correctly pointed out: uh listen, I guess because they have to go back and I'm not.

I

Gonna speak for staff, but they are gonna, go back and consult and if that's something conversation' I want to have with them, I don't. Personally. I don't.

I

Think that this is a direction to increase, I think they're continuing with.

I

The direction they have, I don't think so, but I know if there's other direction.

I

From council to look at you know, events in the 25 percent or more. I wouldn't.

I

Support it myself, but you know, if that's a direction from council, I'm sure they.

I

Would but I don't really, I think this is more just with the redistribution of the.

I

What their recommendations are for us and just a further question again.

C

Clarification, the timing of this, you said it would be this. The results of.

C

This additional consultation would come back to the budget committee mm.

C

The 2019 budget process, so we do, we do support the recommendations or, if we.

I

Move forward with this, but it would come back. We there may be a consultation to.

I

Read redistribute the numbers as opposed to increasing, because I think the its.

I

Revenue revenue neutral, so I'm looking at if anything, maybe there may be some.

I

Redistribution of the classification so but that it's coming back to the budget.

I

Process anyway, it's actually part of that anyway, so I'm just being a little.

I

Clear to go back and consult just a bit more, I think it would have if we just.

C

Approved it, but I guess now it's being there's a motion on the floor. It hasn't.

C

Been passed yet to send it back to staff for further consultation. My correct and.

C

Then it comes back to council through the budget process. That's what's.

C

Proposed, yes, all right, I think so yeah. So I think in that sense, if this had.

C

Just been approved, as it sits here, I'm questioning whether that's an order. The.

A

Original one I understand counselor is moving something different, but I don't.

A

Know how this was in order, but the idea hole I didn't mean yeah, but.

C

The recommendation the item says specifically that the city council.

C

Approves so it goes through here if it was approved here it says, city, council,.

C

Approves or goes from here to council have approved, my understanding is councillor. Crawford was simply moving a different way of okay yeah. Okay. So so we.

C

Will have a choice to make I guess as to whether councillor crawford's motion will be voted on first and if it's not approved, then it would go back to this and would go to council as this. I think I'm right in saying that yeah that right.

C

Okay, I think we're okay, it's just telling me accounts to.

C

Crawford, I want to just make sure that so everybody understands including counsel, davis and myself, that that, by you talked to staff and that staff said.

C

That the recommendations would actually go forward to city council, but in the.

C

Meantime that doesn't prevent even if they're approved there, it doesn't.

C

Prevent this further consultation from taking place- and you were talking about.

C

It within the context of I'll put it this way, moving money around or moving.

C

Around levels of taxation within the context of these recommendations and is.

C

That was that your intention- oh I want the entire item held off until that.

C

Consultation is no, the initial discussions was not. I mean the ice and.

I

Again my sumption and me putting the motion together was the recommendations.

I

Are still going to council, this would add, be added on to that. So we could.

I

Support the the recommendations and if we supported all of including this and.

I

We would support the recommendations and go back, and so this isn't a deferral. I'm.

I

Not deferring the item, the intent is not to deciding it if I can put it this way,.

C

It's adding a discussion on after. If the council approves these yeah, if council.

I

Approves it, then, we week further consult yeah. This is concert conference motion.

I

Yeah, the intent was never to to defer the entire item.

C

Okay, so it approves it yes, so the fact that we see it all red.

C

Here is that it would approve the recommendations, but it would add this.

C

Consultation to be reported to the budget committee which, as you said, it.

C

Happens anyway, but it would formally recite that in this this motion- yes.

C

That's clear to everybody: I think it is now to me and I'm glad the councillor.

C

Davis asked the question because it led us to well: it is.

C

Okay, so I think what we have, then is councillor crawford's motion and then.

C

We'll have the main item to vote on and did I have any other speakers, so I don't.

C

I think after councillor roberts motion, I didn't see anybody else wanting to.

C

Speak okay! Well, then, we're ready to call question first on councillor, crawford's.

C

Motion all those in favor, closed, carry and on the main item, as amended.

C

All those in favor opposed to carry okay.

C

That, then brings us to the I believe, 32.6, the update on the toronto zoo.

C

Tripartite agreement, we have three deputies, who've been very patient and if.

C

They all want to make their way towards the front. I think we have. We have.

C

Pauline brows, who I saw earlier today, chair of the friends of the rouge larry.

C

Noonan from the friends the rouge and heather moser, and so if they want to.

C

Just make their way down to the front the honourable pauline browses first.

C

Well good afternoon, ladies gentlemen, mara, ward and counselors I'm happy to.

R

Have an opportunity to speak to you. My name is pauline brows. I was a former.

R

Member of parliament for a scarborough center in the cabinet for a few years.

R

And I've had an opportunity to work on the rouge national urban park for a good.

R

Number of years, I'm presently a director of the waterfront regeneration, trust and.

R

A few years ago, we formed the friends of the rouge national urban park, of which I.

R

Am the chair I'm happy to be joined by larry noonan? Who is the projector there.

R

And also with heather unweighting, the documents that you have before you.

R

Concerning this issue, I was really taken aback by the lack of importance of the.

R

City of toronto has extended to the establishment of the canada's first.

R

National urban park situated in this city, as well as in markham, pickering and.

R

Uxbridge with approximately 20,000 acres of land preserved for perpetuity and.

R

Administered by parks, canada, it is situated in the heart of the largest.

R

Population center in canada, it is brown groundbreaking when the federal.

R

Government under stephen harper established this park and announced the.

R

Park illogic thousands of land acres of lands for this provided 170 million.

R

Dollars of federal funds signed an agreement with premier mcguinty on this.

R

Issue for the transfer of the provincial ii controlled lands to make this the.

R

Nature gateway to the gta, it is the cause for a tremendous celebration, but.

R

When I get to these documents that the city of toronto and the toronto zoo are trying their very best to see how they can benefit.

R

From these funds, instead of how the city of toronto can promote the roach.

R

National park I'm concerned about this report. I was interested to hear this.

R

Morning in the earlier presentation, the positive, proactive strategy of the.

R

Benefits of toronto, where parks and ravines were actually mentioned now,.

R

Perhaps you have heard of the proposal that the education center and the.

R

Visitors center for the rouge national urban park would be established.

R

Everybody wants to know how to get to the park. Where do I go to get to the.

R

Park, and so this is why we need to have a visitor center. Well, it's been proposed.

R

That this center for the rouge national urban park be in the parking lot of the.

R

Toronto zoo: this is a most unacceptable location for this center. Our group is.

R

Recommending that the facility be constructed on the east side of.

R

Meadowvale road you drive up meadowvale road on the left is the zoo and on the.

R

Right is the park, and so we believe it should be on the park side to see the.

R

Vista of the park and very close to the trails we have recently made a.

R

Presentation to the toronto zoo, as well as to percs canada, with 50 reasons. Why.

R

This facility should be on the park side of meadowvale road now, you'll see on the.

R

Map that was in your material, and it's now up on the board there, that the.

R

Toronto zoo wants more land on the east side of meadowvale road even to the.

R

River, do you point that out even to the river, we think that it, the top of bank.

R

Should be at least where it should be, but also.

R

The location where we believe that the education center should be on the east.

R

Side of meadowvale road should also be concluded in the park boundary as.

R

Opposed to in in the zoo, and so the zoo has got a recommended or the other other.

R

um Up yeah, the zoo has got the other part north of finch. That's taken out of.

R

The park area, it's a the toronto region, transportation at the conservation.

R

Authority lands, but we believe that this part, that's if you can point to it, larry.

R

The part that's on the east side of meadowvale road down by the you know.

R

Number there, that is, the area that should be in in the park as opposed to.

R

Having the havingness in the in the zoo, so we understand I'm.

C

Going to invoke the clause that says for privy councillors, they get an extra 90.

C

Seconds but- and you are a member of the privy council but after that then I have.

C

To cut you off, because the full two minutes is only for former prime.

C

Minister's so there actually is no such rule, but if you could, if you could just.

C

Bring your remarks to a conclusion. There may be some questions that could allow.

C

You to have more to say just to take, take 60 seconds. Thank you. Pardon me.

C

I said we would just like you to send this report back for further discussion.

R

Because we haven't had any opportunity to review this, we heard about it on.

R

Friday, alright, that's fine! Thank you! You! You could have taken another 30 seconds.

C

But that's okay, save it for another time. Now. Are there questions of the deputy? I.

C

Guess I would just like to clarify what you were just dealing with, that the ink that is gonna say well, what do you want us to do and what you'd like us to do in this case? It actually did two that have this go back for further discussion.

C

Including consultation with your group and others that you said we're not consulted on this, I get to go back for further consultation with stakeholders.

R

And and also to discussion with the friends of the rouge knife.

R

Urban park and and and then bring it back to you at another time, so the stuff.

R

Can take a look at it with our inputs all right? Well, what we'll try and do is.

C

Ask some questions of staff about I'm sorry, we'll, try and ask some questions.

C

Of staff, when that time comes after the deputations of staff about the.

C

Consultation and what happened and so forth, so we can get some answers right.

R

So larry has got some further just for the particulars about this, that it would.

R

Be probably before other questions came forth, it might be good to hear hit what.

R

He has guess what he's gonna make a separate deputation, which I assumed he.

C

Gets his own five minutes and perhaps he can follow on the discussion. We've been.

C

Having here and speak to these points, is that fair, because he's your dad you're.

C

Mr. noon and correct yes and you're down as a separate deputy, so you have your.

C

Own five minutes, and if you want to come up or do you want to do it from there, I.

O

Appreciate doing question of this yeah all right. Please go ahead. Paul yeah.

C

Thank you through meritorious bras at the toronto.

D

The board of directors of the toronto zoo we've reviewed the visitors center.

D

That you were talking about at least three times at board meetings. Were you.

D

At any of the board meetings to make your concerns known.

D

We also reviewed this at board of directors meeting of.

D

The toronto region and conservation authority did you make a deputation.

D

There at all, because this whole issue of.

R

The education center, the boundaries, are some of the best-kept secrets in this.

R

City, I can't believe how poorly people who are involved with the zoo people.

R

Involved with the park, people involved with with yourself as the chair have.

R

Really not reached out to the community. I know that I had a meeting with you.

R

Before christmas, and I would have thought that you might have asked told.

R

Us that we were going to be discussing this, but I.

R

Hurt anything from you and I'm very sorry about that. You didn't get any of.

D

The emails that I've sent you I haven't, received any information about this. No.

D

All right, thank you, mara, torrey. Thank you. Other questions of this deputed.

C

Before we hear from the next one, okay, miss brows, thank you and then mr. noon.

C

And I think we're now gonna hear from and do you have a microphone over there.

C

So we can pick up what you're saying do perfect yeah hear me.

C

We can hear you loud and clear. Thank you, okay. I want to go on to this area here.

O

The the zoo staff report in february of this year has talked about putting a.

O

Shared facility which sprows talked about in the vicinity of meadowvale road.

O

Well, this is the vicinity that they're talking about here and with the.

O

Boundaries that are being set out, the zoo, will control all of this area. Here.

O

Including four parking lots and all the land that could have some building put.

O

On it, our question is: where is parks canada's land for building the rouge.

O

National urban park visitor center and they are answering the parking lot.

O

Number one and we're hoping that we can change that and get it in the parking.

O

Lot number three and I'll be talking about that as we go along. This is the.

O

Two areas a little closer view: 800 meters from the area that in parking lot.

O

Number one to the area that we're looking at in parking lot number three.

O

The zoo is also entering into agreements to offer credit courses. These courses we.

O

Offer to university students and to high school students, and it would be in there.

O

In the education center, the zoo has clearly stated that they want the.

O

Education center inside the zoo parking lot number one which results in the last.

O

Many parking spaces up to 300 f, our calculation is right and the.

O

Construction of a two-level underground parking garage, the reason given for by.

O

The zoo for this location of the education center in zoo parking lot.

O

Number one is the convenience of senior high school students and adult.

O

University students, having close to the zoo, so, however, this puts.

O

The rouge national urban park education center, 800 meters, away from the rouge.

O

National urban park, it also puts the center 800 meters away from five hiking.

O

Trails, these trails are going to be visited by hundreds of schools and.

O

Thousands of students in the years to come and we think that the students here.

O

As I put up the high school students university, students are more capable of.

O

Walking that internet meters than children as young as four and elementary.

O

Students that older than that, as well back to the map and I'll just go to here.

O

People have expressed a concern about the road. This is the road they'll, be.

O

Walking across it's zoo road, it's full of ramps coming up from the meadowvale.

O

Road, it's got buses, cars, everything, small children and handicapped people.

O

And accessibility people have expressed a concern about this. The pickering.

O

Accessibility advisory committee we're clear that the distance between the.

O

Parking lot site and the trails and the road crossings along the way are not.

O

Acceptable for people with exceptionalities, also up near where we.

O

Proposed to put the visitor center in parking lot 3, there is true trails that.

O

Are wheelchair accessible, according to the committee that I spoke to in.

O

Pickering, the zoo wants to put a boundary right in the middle, a part of.

O

This, I don't understand that and I'd like that, reviewed to see why they have.

O

To have that little jog that you can see up there in the boundary line now what.

O

Do you see from the two proposed sites from the back of the zoo where they.

O

Proposed it, this is what you see. This is the view from where we're proposing this.

O

Is what you'd see in certain seasons from the front of the zoo, proposed area.

O

This is what you see and from the front of the other one in parking lot. Three.

O

This is what you see it's natural ground and gravel parking lot and has the.

O

Ability to put trees in front of the also the zoo does not have the.

O

Capability of putting a curved and roadway in with trees to give people an.

O

Idea that they're going out of a an urban environment parking lot number.

O

Three has that ability. This is an accepted standard and national.

O

Provincial and conservation sights. This is the type of parking lot that we could.

O

Have there with this on the ground level, instead of this now branding is also.

O

Very important and the location of the ridge, national urban park, education.

O

Center will have a major effect on the brand. These are the kinds of things that.

O

You should have in a brand the vista of the valley or other natural areas, easy.

O

Access to hiking trails and visitor, an education center, I've seen to have lost.

O

My my feed there in an environment that looks very, very natural. I only had two.

O

Slides left, it was the trc a headquarters in the parking lot of the.

O

Zoo and- and it was one with the natural area in the parking lot where we.

O

Proposed- and they are very, very different- one is very natural and one is.

O

Not my other two slides are in front of you. I hope, along with the map, and that.

O

Is my presentation, thank you, mr noonan. Are there questions of this deputy.

C

Constantly, thank you through meritorious ternoon, and can you go back to your.

D

Slide of metal vail where you're saying that people at across metal vail, I can't.

O

I do it's in my.

F

I didn't expect to be here all day, so I've run out of power while we're.

R

Waiting for this mr. mayor, perhaps I could just mention to you that the.

R

People that are supporting our proposal of the education center on the on the.

R

East side is the altona stirred committee, the waterfront regeneration.

R

Trust, which is david, crombie keith, the lush way and mulville the malin park.

R

Conservation association of markham, highland creek, community association, jim.

R

Hart, of course, councillor and also councillor glenda bear maker, kevin ashe.

R

The councillor in durham, west rouge community centre, highland creek.

R

Community centre toronto field, naturalist and the accessibility centre.

R

In the city of perth, the city of pickering, thank you are we coming along.

C

There was june it's almost up. I apologize.

C

If it's gonna be a minute, we could hear from this moses and their questions or.

O

Anything well, no, miss moser has a deputation make as well. I think you're.

C

Well, there's a question from councilor pasternak yeah, I'm sort of looking over.

E

This staff report here and unless I'm missing something there's no reference.

E

To an education center at all, who is who is funding this education center and who.

E

Is going to be operating, it are you speaking to me yes. Well actually, now.

C

It's mr. noon and he's the deputy, the top and if he doesn't have information.

C

We can save it for a question for staff, but mr noonan you're trying to load up.

C

Your computer, there I'll leave it for staff tonight, yeah we'll leave it. I.

C

Think we'd best leave it for staff because we're more like they. You know.

C

Get all right: how are we coming there miss janet? I have it here. I think I.

O

Apologize the question with crossing meadowvale: oh.

D

My god we were looking for yep, so, mr noonan, I don't mean to be facetious or.

D

Sarcastic but you said that students and people would have to cross that roadway.

D

And currently, there's quite a substantial bridge there with a roadway.

D

That goes over meadowvale avenue, correct and the part of the the business plan.

D

For the visitors center is that people would get from the visitor center across.

D

The bridge to the park correct: how would they do that? Well, they can either take a.

D

Shuttle bus across or they can walk across the bridge, but you've left the.

D

Bridge out of this picture correct, the bridge is right. There, I'm standing on.

O

The road when I took it the bridge, is in between the ramp here that says four and.

O

Five and the ramp on the other side, which says six, that is the bridge right.

O

There, but it's quite, I can't speak for myself for everybody in this room, but I.

D

Don't see a bridge anywhere in this picture and it's quite a substantial.

D

Bridge well we're on the bridge. Basically the registrate ahead. You don't.

O

What you don't see here is meadowvale, it's underneath the bridge, they're ramps.

O

From meadowvale go up to the bridge and if you're coming from the 401 area, you.

O

Turn left to go into the zoo, and hopefully you will turn right to go to.

O

The visitors center- that's ramp, number six there, where that car is, is just.

O

Coming off the bridge, you can see the railings on a picture to the left of the.

O

Car right, that's the bridge. Okay and have you looked? Have you read the report.

D

That was passed at the trc, a and the board of directors on the zoo, but the.

D

Renovations that were going to be done. I have seen information on that. Yes and.

D

You don't agree with it. No, I don't agree with it, because if you're walking, they.

O

Were talking about putting some kind of protection across that protection cannot.

O

Lock the ramps that are all over the place here there is one two three four.

O

Five ramps and entrances or exits from the ramps.

O

Children will have to walk across that people in wheelchairs will still have to.

O

Go across that you might protect them from the weather when they're on the sidewalk, but that's it. This is a busy road with buses, school buses, all kinds.

O

Of things- and you haven't seen the report with the recommendations for.

D

Making alterations to this so that's fully accessible in a oda compliant.

O

Could you tell me what that would be sorry? Could you tell me what compliance.

O

Will prevent people from walking across these ramps it'll be a fully accessible.

D

Bridge a separate pedestrian bridge; okay, thank you. Meryt orion, undone, all right.

C

Thank you. Are there questions of mr noonan.

C

All right, mr noonan, well, thank you very much and then mr. moser, we have you you.

C

Two as a separate deputy, so you have five minutes as well. The microphone.

A

Sounds like it is yes, thank you go ahead.

E

I'm here to speak about the bruges valley and our center in the roadway as.

E

You know ron and I we spent 34 years fighting for the rouge valley in many.

E

Different organizations save the rouge valley system, the coalition of.

E

Scarborough community associations, kostka and now in the friends of the.

E

Rouge national urban park, and I'm still at it after all, this year's as pauline.

E

Had told us told you we didn't even hear about this until last week about this.

E

Tripartite agreement and that it was coming to council never got any emails.

E

To say there was any meetings at any of the boards and that we were welcome at.

E

Any of them so because my companions here have mentioned other areas, I would.

E

Like to mention the finch meander, which is, if you look up on the upper left-hand.

E

Corner right there, that is one of the most beautiful areas in the rouge valley.

E

And for some reason, the boundaries for the.

E

Zoo have been put in there and it has never been part of the rouge valley. The.

E

Zoo and it's on the other side of a road and actually has a road running through.

E

It and we're wondering who would under the zoo, who would maintain the road, but.

E

It is one of the beautiful sultan's bite sites and it's where in ninety, in the.

E

1980S, we managed to stop a six-lane road going through there, where the ministry.

E

Of transport thought they would join the 407 to the 401 and drew lines right over.

E

The fence finch meander, also in 1988, it's exactly.

E

Where premier david peterson came to announce rouge to be a park, so we would.

E

Like it to stay in the rouge valley, okay and pauline has said here, we have to.

E

Have this go back and have a review with the people who are involved in this all.

C

Right, thank you. Those are. Are there, questions of this deputy all right well,.

C

Thank you all for your patience, the deput in sand. You can excuse yourselves now and we're gonna move to questions of the staff, and so that might obviously highlight some of the issues you brought to our attention today. So we thank you.

R

Guys, thank you councillor pasternak. You were first.

C

Because you had a question that earlier on, you expressed it probably best, goes.

C

Yes, thank you, mr. mayor, through you to staff.

E

Now I've heard the word visitor center and education center. Are these the same.

E

Structures can these terms be used interchangeably? What we're talking about.

D

Here is the education orientation center? It's a shared facility, the subject to a.

D

Needs assessment over the course of about a year with a number of parties.

D

Including parks, canada of the toronto zoo and university of toronto,.

D

Scarborough so we're talking, this is actually one.

E

Structure and they've instructed, if ur, n't, okay who's paying for the center and.

E

Who will be operating it, so the the center would be a shared facility. The.

D

Exact details of nava worked out is the amount of the sharing, but generally.

D

It would be shared between the rouge park, the toronto zoo, and we now have a.

D

Third partner, who is very interested in in being a part of the facility that.

D

Would be the university of toronto scarborough campus? Now I'm looking at.

E

Your report here I don't- maybe I'm missing it, so you can, if you could refer.

E

Me to the page of a reference to a visitor center or orientation center or.

E

Education center, whatever you want to call it, I don't see any reference to it.

E

At all here, yet that's the key to bait here, it's you know it actually is not.

D

Subject of this report, this report is about the tripartite agreement and the.

D

Changes in the boundaries from the toronto zoo and the rouge national urban.

D

Park which you saw on the map, which had the new lines drawn around the zoo in.

D

Fact the zoo is some is giving up about 200 acres of land for the benefit of the.

D

Park and the principle was to have the zoo in inside of the rivers rather than.

D

Going over the boundaries of the rivers and the deputies have said they weren't.

E

Properly consulted on the boundary changes. What what would be your response.

E

To that I was there full public disclosure and and consultation on this.

D

These were all dealt with at public meetings of our zoo board, which are open.

D

To all members of the public and are published on our website and on the.

D

City's website in advance, with full agendas and disclosure of the reports.

E

And just just to double back on the on the funding does: does the zoo have a.

E

Capital plan that would include this yes zoo, completed a master plan last year.

D

Was approved at the end of 2016, and it involves this project for the shared.

D

Facility is included in that 19 sorry, 2016 capital master plan, which is now.

D

Going to be the subject of capital budgets for some time, we hope so just.

E

Just finally, the debate over the location.

E

Of the visitor center seemed central to this boundary, the tripartite agreement.

E

Amendment that's before us is there any reason why it was expunged from this.

E

Report, it's not mentioned as an issue at all. It wasn't expunged. It was never in.

D

The report, but I guess the the sighting of the shared facility is on zoo, managed.

D

Lands in either case it's either. It's really a question of whether it's in.

D

Lock number one or lot number three of the zoo's held lands which have been.

D

Managed by the zoo since 1974, okay, thank you.

A

Kathy, thank you through merit, ori. So mr. hale, the tripartite agreement, is the.

D

Subject of the report before us originated in what year it was request.

D

Of counsel in 2013 and that's the three parties of city of toronto or you're.

D

Talking about the original tribe part, yes, agreement was entered into in 1978.

D

Between the trc, a the city and the toronto zoo and the zoological society.

D

Metropolitan toronto at the time, and the reason it's before us today is because.

D

There's been some land, so the site, that's on the toronto zoo, it's owned by.

D

The toronto region conservation authority, most of the land, is owned by.

D

The toronto region conservation authority about 6/7 about 600 acres, there's about a hundred acres that are owned by the city of toronto. Okay and.

D

The tripartite agreement today it's being revised because we're moving some.

D

Land from the zoo to the rouge national park, it's an old agreement, it's being.

D

Brought up to date and in addition, the boundary changes has been proposed as.

D

Was requested by city council back in 2013, okay and the the education center.

D

That we're looking at that was approved unanimously by the trc at the board of.

D

Directors meeting one of those put before them, it was approved by the board.

D

Of management of toronto zoo on october 25th, 2017, and that was in a public.

R

Meeting publicly advertised and so under the tripartite tight agreement.

D

We just built a medical center so when we're putting up structures on the zoo.

D

We wouldn't include those as part of the needing to revise the tripartite.

D

Agreement correct: it's all. The the tripartite agreement allows for projects.

D

That are approved in the master plan to be considered and fulfilled under the.

D

Terms of the agreement and master plan was unanimously approved by the board of.

D

Directors, it was approved by both the board of management and also the trc.

D

Okay and it's it's in our capital plan, the zoo's capital plan that is correct,.

D

And parks, canada is in agreement with the location and the education center. It.

D

Was a joint study was undertaken over the course of about a year and the parks.

D

Canada's fully an agreement with the siting and nature of the facility and.

D

Just to address the concerns one of the the deputies had about children would be.

D

Walking across from the visitors center over the meadowvale bridge to get to the.

D

Bruges park: how is that being addressed? Well, I think you have to understand that.

D

There's also 120,000 google children that potentially will be using this.

D

Facility and heading towards the zoo, so it doesn't matter which side, which part.

D

Of the mezuzah parking lots, it is located, it is going to require.

D

Some movement of children, and that is all going to be carefully studied and.

D

Planned for including buses, and also footpaths that are properly aoda.

D

Required, okay and some of the financial concerns. If we were to decide to put the.

D

Educational center on the east side of meadowvale there's some concerns that I.

D

Remember the zoo board, meeting about infrastructure costs for utilities and.

D

Yes, insecurity. All of the services that would support this facility are located.

D

On the west side of meadowvale, there are no very minimal services on the east.

D

Side of meadowvale, and that would be very expensive to bring them across okay.

D

All right, thank you very much. Thank you, mara, torey. Those are my questions. Thanks.

C

Are there others wishing to ask questions? I just have a couple if I.

C

Might for our staff just because it is a bit confusing for us now, just I'll put.

C

On the wreck here, just something that may have been missed a bit by the deputies and so on. This report is just here to be received.

C

#Name? our part- and I just wanna, ask you a question in that regard. Is there any? Is there any requirement that the agreement.

C

Be brought here to be reviewed, or is it just almost a courtesy that it's here.

C

Because it's already been entered into, it's merely showing the effect of the.

D

Deliberations and was done because was requested by council, so it is for.

D

Information only and the city staff and the zoo staff now have authority to.

D

Enter into the agreement, along with the trca and the sorry just I just you're a.

C

Little bit quieter there, but you said that it has been executed by those people but has not yet the next unit. We have the authority now to actually have.

C

The authority to execute it regardless of this- this is just receiving this, and.

C

It would be in turn received by council and effect through the executive committee. That's that's right and that's because in effect authority to deal with.

C

These matters of the tripartite agreement has been delegated to the.

C

Zoological society or whatever it is the board, the zoo management board and trca.

C

And the third party, I guess, is who parks, canada and city staff, ceo city, so the.

C

City is a party to it then, but the city doesn't require the approval of council.

C

To enter into an agreement like this, a revision that is practicing all right.

C

And then it does does the does the execution of this agreement and its.

C

Approval not by us because we're not approving it, but does the right of.

C

Approval by the people we just discussed does that. Does that a stop? I heard that.

C

There's been a decision taken at the board to locate consciously locate the center, where it's proposed to be on the west side. Does anything that's going to.

C

Go on today and receiving this report, or even the approval of the agreement, stop.

C

The people who are still concerned about this from from continuing to discuss the.

C

Location of the center known as the swap of lands here in effect stop a decision.

C

Later on, if somebody thought oh, you know we made a mistake, we should put it on the other side of the road, not at all, in fact, quite the opposite. We met with this.

D

Same group a week ago and discussed with them some of the some of their concerns.

D

We are taking that back. We will have another meeting with them at some point.

D

To provide our our input to the decision, a bit more fulsome discussion should.

D

Take place at that point all right, so do I hear their? I don't wanna put words in.

C

Your mouth, what do I hear a commitment that you are gonna sit down with the friends the rouge and have a further discussion beyond what we've discussed here in public today about all these concerns and try to address them as best.

C

One can and so on. That is exactly as we told them all right, and then I had one.

C

More question it just a bit of a curiosity to me it's sort of back on. I didn't under quite understand from all the questions and answers. I heard first.

C

Of all, I would have said that parks, canada. If there was one that I would.

C

Have thought would be most likely to talk to the friends of the rouge and keep them apprised of all this and so on. It would be them because it's the their.

C

Park but but secondly, who is gonna pay it's on land that belongs to the trc, a.

C

/Zu slash city whatever, but it's not on park, it's not in the park and who's.

C

Paying to build this and and and and it's just part of the deal with all the.

C

Swapping going on that, they get the right to put the visitor center there. If.

C

You stick to that decision in return for all those other swapping. That's going on.

C

And who pays for the building? Well, the building would be a shared expense and.

D

The exact details have not been worked out at this point. You have to understand.

D

That the needs assessment is a concept. It's not a final design and there's a.

D

Lot of discussion and costing that would need to take place, so this is far from a.

C

Vote to be started in construction and that's why the meeting can be held in.

C

Good faith with these people from the friends of the roush, absolutely uh okay,.

C

Well, that that certainly satisfies me- and I hope I'll just address these.

C

Comments, the deputed, I hope, deputy. I hope you understand today we're not.

C

Approving we're not asked to approve we're not in a position to approve the.

C

Agreement we're just receiving it, but I think your concerns have been raised.

C

There's been a commitment to meet with you in good faith and we'll certainly follow up on that just to see what comes out of all that, but otherwise, okay, those.

C

Are my questions? Thank you. Any other questions of staff are there speakers.

C

Then, no so they're, not here so courageously. Okay, thank you, mara, torrey.

D

I'm quite happy to move this item for information. Currently, I'm the chair of.

D

The board of management of the toronto zoo, so the zoo site for the most part, is.

D

Owned by the toronto region and conservation authority.

D

The tripartite agreements been approved by the trc, a it's been approved by the.

D

Board of management of the toronto zoo, one of the key parts of it for us, is.

D

That there's a parcel land, that's on the zoo control property. That's really not.

D

Accessible to us that we're turning over to the rouge national park, which helps.

D

Them enforce regulations, it opens up an area to hiking and walking trails that.

D

Are currently unaccessible to the general public, the trc, a through the.

D

Agreement is also turning over some land on finch avenue, which is the north side.

D

Of the zoo, which is we're, gonna, be using for breeding area. So it's it's a win-win.

D

For everybody involved one of the discussions that the defendants had.

D

We're looking at building a visit visitors, education center on our corner.

D

Of the parking lot that's gonna be shared both by parks, canada and the.

D

Toronto, zoo, it's another great arrangement financially. That means.

D

Financially and the educational needs of both the rouge park parks, canada and the.

D

Toronto, zoo- and I hope I'll have the endorsement of all of my colleagues here.

D

As well, thank you thanks. I trust that, having heard all that.

C

Process that sounds like it was entirely properly and publicly followed that you.

C

Will also await the results of these further consultations, if there's something useful to become out of that in terms of addressing these concerns even up to and including, I suppose, a change in the decision. But you will your.

C

You and your board will listen to that as, if emerges, and also make I'll make a.

D

Commitment to the dep units, they they work and there were concerns and mrs.

D

Moser made a point about not being notified, will make sure they're on the.

D

List of deputies and entrusted parties for future meetings or consultations on.

D

This okay! So if there are no other speakers, then I'll just call the.

C

Question, which is to receive the report for information with other things that.

C

Have risen out of our discussion that I hope will be helpful. All those in favor opposed kerry. Thank you. Alright. The next item that was being held was.

C

The multi 30x30 2.9 the multi year service plans and strategies in edina.

C

Lebeau was down as a deputy. Thank you, okay, thanks again, I'm here for.

N

Carp: toronto in the toronto seniors forum, I've already deputed on the long.

N

Term financial plan, which is very much related to the issue of funding of.

N

Council approved service plans and strategies, and it's also the reason why.

N

Option three of the long-term plan, broad-based city building, is the only.

N

Option worth pursuing and that we can pursue, I wanted to take a moment to say.

N

That analysis of the strategies is very helpful to see the anticipated costs for.

N

Implementing the plans that council has approved these are plans that are about.

N

Making our city better more inclusive and equitable, and they should be a.

N

Priority in the budget setting going forward and not an afterthought, they.

N

Should inform action on the long term financial plan based on the 2018.

N

Municipal budget that just passed social planning, toronto created a budget brief.

N

Which documents, the systemic underfunding of key council, approved.

N

Strategies and services, this brief called promises, promises.

N

City council commitments and the 2000 of 18 budget, I believe, was distributed to.

N

You, but if you haven't read it, I will leave it with the city clerk here and.

N

Please take a look at the copy social planning. Toronto has asked me to do this.

N

Deputation on its contents, the recreation and service plan parks plan.

N

Is underfunded by 10 million transform toronto climate change, teal prosperity.

N

The poverty reduction strategy, underfunded by 2 million child care.

N

Advocates say: 11 point: 2 million was needed for child care in 2018 alone, not.

N

To be spread over three years, the hot plan- housing opportunities had 10,000.

N

Affordable unit by 2019 we're in 2018, and we have 526.

N

Promised, which is far behind the original target, an additional 35 million.

N

Could have been provided through operating or depth funding the middle.

N

Childhood strategy- 3.4 million, disappeared. The youth ambassador program.

N

Got cut this program was to help marginalized youth finish high school. It.

N

Was a hundred and twenty thousand the senior strategy dental care program? We.

N

Couldn't find an amount but there's a 3-year waiting list to get vulnerable.

N

Seniors teeth checked. Please understand the consequences. Canada is the only.

N

Social care, health system, where teeth and drugs aren't included. Why is this.

N

Important because infections start in our mouths they spread downward in the.

N

Body and if not caught in early stages, manifest into increased health cost long.

N

Term there are 600,000 people over 50 in toronto now and over the next 10 to 15.

N

Years there'll be two million seniors living in the city as lifespans continue.

N

To increased and spent seniors spend more money on health. We are on an under.

N

Invested in each of these strategies, and this under investment has its own.

N

Long-Term unhealthy, bad and financial effects and consequences, and if we don't.

N

Start dealing with them now to find solutions. We are going to be in the.

N

Situation we talked about in the long-term plan this morning. The deficit.

N

Just for 2018 is 40 to 50 million less than we needed. Yes, we did fund some, but.

N

Not at the levels required by the mean to move forward, we need to focus the.

N

Budget discussion on finding equitable and sustainable ways to fund these.

N

Commitments, including raising property taxes to catch up to inflation, and/or.

N

Adopting specific revenue tools, as I mentioned before, the municipality must.

N

Use revenue tools to ante to prime the pump to get the money's.

N

Flowing for other levels of government- and we need you to understand that and.

N

Be leaders and act accordingly, we have to tackle the big issues first and.

N

Foremost, we need to put people first when deciding on our priorities, rather.

N

Than adopting and across-the-board increase or decrease in the yearly.

N

Budget, we suggest setting the priorities and then set a different percentage for.

N

Different departments, we do know that it's a harder route to go for staff, but.

N

It can be done with councils direction. We also have to educate voters as to the.

N

Realities, we're facing here in toronto, consult the public before departmental.

N

Budgets are completed and encouraged public input on budget priorities and.

N

This was the reason behind asking that the long term plan go to council and.

N

Then out for the election yeah, why does this matter to seniors well, first and.

N

Foremost, we're parents were grandparents and great-grandparents from all.

N

Different nationalities and cultural backgrounds living in the city and we.

N

Want all our families to do well here in toronto, just one last thing about the.

N

Taxes, yes, everybody will say: no, if you ask them, do you want to pay more taxes.

N

The answer is automatically no but down on the ground, because I've done it when.

N

You tell them that 27% child poverty in toronto, 15,000, kids, waiting for child.

N

Care a hundred thousand on the social housing waitlist, a hundred and eighty.

N

Thousand for park and rec subsidies three year waits for dental and then you.

N

Ask them, will you pay fifty cents a week or twenty-eight dollars per year? Most of.

N

Them say: yes, I will. We have an education job to do. Thank you very much. All right.

C

Thank you very much. Are there questions of the staff on the multi-year plans and.

C

Strategies report which write the recommendation is that report be.

C

Received for information really is a companion piece with some of the other.

C

Things we've discussed today: are there any other questions of staff? Anybody wishing to speak ah councillor, thompson, welcome and.

C

Then I'll call the question all those in favor of the recommendation to receive the report imposed, carry item, 32, point 12, home ownership, funding allocations to.

C

Support 80 new nonprofit, affordable ownership homes, it was being held for a deputation by darkus, solve a see solve a savannah. The darkest evasive am here.

C

Ago, tsubasa, okay, that deputy is no longer here. May I.

C

See if there any questions of staff, all right are there any speakers.

C

All right so we'll, then the move, the item: where are we it's? So the.

C

Recommendation is found in the report from the affordable housing committee.

C

Decision letter item 32 point 12. May I call the question then I moved by a.

C

Council move the recommendations, counselor deputy mayor bylaw, all those in favor opposed carried. Next, we had item 32 16. Now I indicated at the beginning of the meeting today that well I'm going to rule this out of order.

C

Because this has been dealt with within the past year, I would hear from derek.

C

Moran on his deputation! So if you want to come down and make your deputation.

C

Mr. moran and then we'll move forward from there I'll take notice that the.

M

Crown is the surety for mr. derek moran, the person I have them. I just want to.

M

Acknowledge the chair of the french-language committee councillor.

M

Norm kelly who's joined us just now. I actually spoke at the french-language.

M

Committee, this is the summary of an item that was on the agenda submitted by the.

M

Vice-Chair in recent weeks, a media outlet reported the fact that henceforth.

M

Francophones will no longer be guaranteed access to services in french.

M

When they want to dispute parking violations with the city of toronto, this.

M

Service is no longer provided by the province but has been delegated to the.

M

City and therefore, is no longer subject to the language services act. 2006 when questioned by the media, susan pape was.

M

Identified as a spokesperson for the city, miss pape referred to a new.

M

Municipal process and suggested that individuals could use interpreters at.

M

Their own expense, the french language services, commissioner, confirms that an.

M

Investigation has been opened into this file pursuant to a citizen complaint. It.

M

Is recommended that the committee hear a presentation on language of service for.

M

People wanting to pay and/or dispute parking violations or other infractions.

M

Take notice this is from the supreme court of canada in our versus tran 1994.

M

Which said this is the first appeal heard by this court, in which the right.

M

To interpreter assistance guaranteed by section 14 of the charter has been.

M

Directly, an issue section 14, provides as follows: a party or witness in any.

M

Proceedings who does not understand or speak the language in which the.

M

Proceedings are conducted or who is deaf, has the right to the assistance of an.

M

Interpreter so after I spoke about this at french language committee after I.

M

Left city hall, I walked up to police headquarters on college street and.

M

Dropped off a letter for toronto police services board chair, andy pringle, which.

M

Said this high chair pringle? How are you I wish to have it as an item to speak on.

M

At the next trial police services board meeting what was discussed at the most.

M

Recent french language committee at toronto city hall, as it appears the.

M

Corporation of the city of toronto, operating as john tory remember, the.

M

Whole dun & bradstreet thing I showed her. The police woman is not complying.

M

With section 14 of the constitution act 1982 in regards to their.

M

Unconstitutional administrative monetary penalty system- I respectfully direct you.

M

Chair pringle, to have this as an item on the agenda of the next toronto police.

M

Services board meeting- god bless her majesty the queen and long live her.

M

Majesty the queen by derick, moran, soul and beneficiary. So this is the response.

M

I got by email from carlene bennett good morning, derek in response to your.

M

Letter to chair pringle and further to my email to you dated february 9th 2018.

M

The chair has reviewed your request to make a deputy at the next board meeting, which would be february 22nd. Regarding the city of.

M

Toronto, french language committee's non-compliance with the section 14 of.

M

The constitution act 1982 now there. I just want to clarify at no point in my.

M

Letter did I say that the french language committee is possibly not.

M

Complying with the constitution that the city of toronto, she goes on to say that.

M

It was determined that your request does not incredibly enough meet the criteria.

M

To make a deputation to the board further that it is perhaps more.

M

Appropriate for the city of toronto to consider this issue. If you wish, you may.

M

Contact the city of toronto city clerk's office, that's clerk at toronto dossier.

M

Or for one six, three: nine, oh three, nine two, eight! Oh one! Six! Thank you! Carlene.

M

Bennett, so let me get this straight: the city of toronto may not be violating, may.

M

Not may be violating the constitution, the chair of the toronto police services.

M

Board who took a real oath to uphold the constitution, not a declaration of office.

M

A real of office doesn't want me speaking about this possibility at the.

M

Toronto, police services board. So how many people in this room know that the.

M

Chair andi, pairing of the toronto police services board used to be the former.

M

Chief of staff of merit, or here, while meritorious doing the same job, that doug.

M

Ford is doing right now to me. That seems like a pretty blatant conflict of.

M

Interest at this point- and I just want to point out now that he's dropped by.

M

These were some comments that councillor thompson made that jennifer paglia of.

M

The tron star wrote about and thursday july 9th 2015. He consistently.

M

Rubber-Stamp police actions, proposals and initiatives that were not in the.

M

Best interest of the community, I would dare say that mr. pringles silence on.

M

All the major issues that the board has faced has in fact mean deafening. He.

M

Suggested tory had whipped the vote on pringle book said you could not support.

M

It toronto doesn't, he does not need a police services board that functions as.

M

A cheerleading squad for the police. We need a board that advocates firmly for.

M

The interests of our city and on thursday, I'm going because of this, I'm.

M

Going to just respectfully ask chair pringle to resign as chair of the.

M

Trolley services board and meritorious laughing for some reason.

C

All right well, thank you for those comments and that your time is up and we.

C

Appreciate that are there any questions of the decadent you're welcome counselor tom. Thank you very much for foremost representations.

C

Are there any no questions at the deputy and are there any questions of staff? Are.

C

There any people wishing to speak, actually, I'm not gonna, do them ruling.

C

The matter out of order because it's been dealt with within the past year, so we just gave mr. moran derek. We ran his chance to say his piece so we'll we'll.

C

Just rule it out of order and move on item 32 point 17, toronto, fire services.

C

High-Rise residential inspection portal- mr. richardson I see, was dutifully.

C

Preparing himself over there and so you're up for five minutes, sir, on a.

C

Deputation, you should have hard copies of the slides and they should be coming.

S

Up on the screen here so talking about.

S

The fire inspection data there's been released currently not as open data. It's.

S

Only been posted up as part of a proprietary portal by the fire chief.

S

This started about a year ago, when it was determined that there were tents in.

S

Apartment buildings, who were asking for fire inspection data about fire.

S

Violations that they had reported themselves and they were told that in.

S

Order to get that information they would have to file a freedom of information.

S

Request, we have had some improvements over the last year and now there is baby.

S

Steps towards transparency you're, starting to put the data up in this.

S

Proprietary portal: it is not open data and you also are only releasing.

S

Information on violations that have been settled, not violations that are still.

S

Outstanding, so if a landlord has an outstanding violation, there's no way for.

S

People to find that when we compare that to other things, your fire inspection is.

S

Only standalone is on a heavily disclaimer deport, allanne dits, not.

S

Released as part of the open data platform, even though a month ago,.

S

You passed the open data master plan and we've been talked about this for nearly two years, so the city in the open data master plan, your.

S

Staff said the city needs to remove the organizational cultural barriers to open.

S

Data and that open data is not a priority at all levels of the.

S

Organization, mr. wallis had a great statement in general about city hall.

S

Saying there's a slavish devotion to the status quo. This is certainly a case.

S

Where that seems to be very visible within the organization in the response.

S

When we were talking about this at the tenants issues committee, the fire chief.

S

And his representative said that the fire service is guided by the municipal.

S

Freedom, information and protection of privacy act, which is from 1990 when that.

S

Was passed, this is sort of what technology looked like in 1990 when that.

S

Was passed, you're also guided by the fire, protection and prevention act of.

S

1997, this is what technology looked like in 1997. I'm sure you all remember your.

S

Palm pilots we're not keeping up with the requirements of running a modern.

S

City, if we're trying to conform to regulations that are now in some cases,.

S

20 or 30 years old, using 1990s policy and practicing 2018 is no longer fit for.

S

Purpose! What we're asking the executive to do clearly through this and through.

S

Other items is to mandate and enforce a serious culture change at all levels of.

S

Your organization and some organizations within the city you're doing a really.

S

Good job of it so right now fire is a health and safety issue, but it's not.

S

Treated like a health and safety issue apartment building, fire inspections are.

S

Hard to access but apartment building, swimming pool.

S

Inspections are easy to access. Does that really make sense to anyone? The map that.

S

You see, there is the pool and spa inspections and there we've punched in.

S

The address where we're standing today and we can find the pool inspections.

S

Nearby in apartment buildings, we can see the details of those inspections at a.

S

Condo, that's like a block away from here who inspected it when it was inspected.

S

Whether they pass failed or conditional same thing, if we're going looking for.

S

Restaurants, restaurant information can be found and it's including the detail.

S

If I just slide that over a little bit, the the detail of the violation is.

S

Included, it also includes information on how to submit a complaint about that all.

S

We're asking is that the the fire department comes up with something.

S

That's closer to a fire safe! That's like a swim, safe like a body safe like a food.

S

Safe program treat it more as a public health issue that requires disclosure.

S

Rather than a legal issue that requires you guys to hold all that information.

S

Back also body safe and dine safe information is up and on the open data.

S

Platform, it's been there for a couple of years already. The focus should be on.

S

Transparency not on 1990s legacy policy and practices. The fire chief's group had.

S

Said they were very concerned about putting infraction details and legal.

S

Details up on court details in an open data system; you're doing that on the.

S

Dine safe side, so you need to have the medical officer of health and the fire.

S

Chief talk to one another: how can two organizations within the.

S

Same municipality be interpreting the restrictions around amphib, uh so.

S

Differently, if you can put the court information up for dine safe, you should.

S

Be able to put it up for fire safe, so the list of demands is usually the same.

S

List of demands the open data community has, for you is to change the default.

S

Settings around here require staff to be proactive on getting consumable open.

S

Data out to torontonians assume that their staff response from legal and.

S

Clerk's will have a bias toward maintaining and enforcing your legacy.

S

Processes a year ago, we were told that required to freedom, information requests.

S

Neither of those laws have changed. All that's changed. Is the interpretations.

S

Your staff have given to it make it clear that the model of what's the least.

S

We can do at the last possible moment is unacceptable in 2018 engage some outside.

S

Legal advice when in fit and other restrictions are raised by your staff.

S

And you today already made a request up to the province about some open data.

S

Around the landlord, affordable housing dollars that are being or affordable.

S

Housing requirements that are there so please continue to push on queens park.

S

To clarify any fuzzy conflicts between open data by default policy in 2017 and.

S

These older 1990s legislation items like in pipa and fp pa and that some time.

S

Thank you mr. chen. Thank you just talking to counselor anything about how.

C

We can possibly see about getting some better answer from the fire department.

C

We seem to have but other questions of this deputy.

D

Thank you through marriage. Sorry, I'm so mark. So the fire inspection data you and.

D

I think we've been a community development and recreation three times.

D

Four times now so asking number like this different different types of fire.

S

Information but fire inspection has been going on for a year, plus, yes and and the.

D

Standard response that we get back from the fire services is, there were they're.

D

Working at it, they're working at and to be fair, they've made a big jump, but they.

S

Started a year ago, saying you have to freedom information, these requests, which.

S

Those legislations did not change in the last 12 months, so there was clearly an.

S

Over interpretation of some of those legislations where they were saying.

S

We're not going to release this data they're, making baby steps. This is not a.

S

Slight towards the fire chief or any of his team, we just need to put the hammer.

S

Down a little bit more and make transparency the default, not an opaque.

S

System which has always been the default up until now, and the information that.

D

I've had that I've had motions and they've all been passed successfully at.

D

Cdr and you made deputations the what I've asked for in your opinion is not.

D

Something that's like way out in left field or right field compared to other.

D

Municipalities across canada or the u.s., it's certainly not compared to other.

S

Music, apologies across the u.s. in canada. There are some stars that are.

S

Further ahead of us in the us there's certainly cincinnati san francisco we're doing things there different organizations at.

S

Different parts of the jurisdictions, so I think it is important that some of.

S

This stuff gets pushed back to the province for them to clarify exactly.

S

What they mean when they're saying the new data says open by default, the old.

S

Legislation has a requirement from the 1990s and those two just aren't meshing.

S

Together, your staff are always defaulting to the 1990s interpretation.

S

Not the 2017 interpretation, okay, all right! Thank you, mara, torrey. Thank you.

C

There other questions councillor thompson. Thank you very much. Mr. mayor.

J

Through you, so the report itself, because you're talking about the access to the.

J

Information, the data is so that in terms of reporting it out, but the report.

J

Itself in terms of retroactive installation of automatic sprinklers, in.

J

Multi residential units you're, okay, with the report yeah they're, the the that.

S

Sort of got tacked on at the tenants advisory committee that wasn't in the.

S

Original idea at the time, but you're fine with that aspect, I'm.

S

Fine with that expect, and this information would help us to do a number.

J

Of things, can you perhaps identify or just highlight those number of things.

J

Around safety and or just information for the general public to have, can you.

J

Maybe just if, if you and I want to go for dinner, we can look at the.

S

Information from the st. louis bar and grille that's a block away and look at.

S

Their health inspection data, we can look at the inspection data for a swimming.

S

Pool we can look at the inspection data for a barber shop if I want to go and.

S

Rent an apartment, I have zero information on open.

S

Violations within the building I'm going to, but I can see what the swimming pool.

S

Quality is like in that building which so these are health and safety.

S

Life-And-Death issues and we're not giving the renters and the consumers of.

S

Apartments, the visibility and transparency they need to be able to see.

S

The quality of building they're about to enter into a long-term contract with.

J

They're enough, I get the context of that now with respect to.

J

Your request- and you made mention in your remarks about the fact that it's.

J

Taking quite some time in order to have access and/or to have that, I guess the.

J

The protocol or the platform where the information is being brought forward so.

J

Then x having access and accepted accessibility to that information, it.

J

Seems to be slow. What exactly are your thoughts with respect to why it's so.

J

Slow, it's cultural within your organization. It's the slavish devotion.

S

To the status quo, and I'm probably gonna get that out of t-shirt for somebody before they retire. This is a broken system. It's been broken for a long time.

S

And trying to make even incremental change takes a lot of outside pressure, a.

S

Year ago you were told we were told, this was gonna require a free but information.

S

Request for every single building the laws didn't change your staffs.

S

Interpretation of it changed when attention started to be paid to it. Okay,.

J

Thank you. Thank you, councillor, thompson, other questions of this definite. Okay,.

C

Well, thank you very very much. Are there questions of staff that people.

C

Have councillor ainsley thank you through meritorious or somebody here.

D

From toronto fire services, so mr. mayor, unfortunately, god deputy chief jessup.

E

Was here, but he had a family emergency, so I'm going to have to represent the.

E

Fire department, councilor, okay, well, no offense purgatory, but I I think I'd.

D

Rather, have answers from toronto fire services staff, they do report to me. Mr.

E

Mayor, I can do my best to answer the questions. Why don't we have a try at.

C

That and to see what we're obviously figure out, what the plan b here is, after.

C

The okay, I also have mr. scragga here from toronto, municipal licensing and.

E

Standards we can get as far as we can just try it. So I'm trying to understand.

D

Mr. levy, what the cultural issue is or why the toronto fire services seems to.

D

Post information on swimming-pool inspections, but they can't.

D

Post data on their inspections of buildings and homes, residences.

D

Businesses and I've been that's something that was passed did cdr. I.

D

Think it's been passed twice now: different motions asking for information.

D

And it's not being done so mr. mayor paki gives some context to this.

M

Discussion: toronto fire service has made a presentation to the tenants and.

E

Tenants issues committee on their new high-rise portal and mark can speak to.

E

Both the portal that they're building and their it's it's a fair bit of effort.

D

To put that together and they are making progress, I think we heard from the.

E

Deputy that they are making some progress, lots of questions were asked.

D

And toronto fire service after questions from committee members committed to.

E

Reviewing the fire loss, data and potentially expanding the registry and putting it on on on in effect in 2019, so it is a work in progress. I think there.

D

Has been a cultural issue about open data that we've witnessed in a number of.

D

Places in the organization, I think there is a commitment to the program that the.

M

Clerk's is developed to do open data and we'd be pleased to continue to advance.

M

Open data and the provision of something like a fire safe program for the public.

E

In conjunction with a report that we would bring back next year, sorry, you.

D

Said that they were putting in, are they building their own portal? We are.

D

Building a portal of conjunction with others mark: do you want to speak to that.

Q

Through the merit, a counselor so part of the rent, safe tío program, the apartment.

Q

Building program, we recognize providing more information for tenants and.

Q

Prospective tenants on the conditions of existing apartment buildings in the city.

Q

Is important, and a component of that is the fire evaluations and inspections of.

Q

Those buildings so that information will be part of that overall citywide portal.

Q

That tenants and prospective tents will be able to go in to see current.

Q

Outstanding orders on the property, including fire orders, as well as.

Q

Previous orders, as well as part of our requirements, is every building has to.

Q

Have a tent notification board in the lobby or prominent howe.

Q

Area where any outstanding fire orders are to be posted as well and and where.

D

Did where was the decision made or why was it made? I'm still not happy. I don't.

D

Understand the time lag compared to many other jurisdictions, but aside from that.

D

Where was the decision made to create another separate portal from the the.

D

City of toronto's own open data portal: it's not a portal per se of just open.

Q

Data: it's an actual interactive map where tenants will be able to people can.

Q

Enter an address or zoom in onto a building and click on that building and.

Q

See all the information related to that building, including orders, so are you.

D

Gonna be putting all of those data sets that creates that map map website in.

D

Portal, are you gonna, be putting all those data sets on the city of toronto's.

D

Open data portal, we are working with the open data people as well to provide, as.

Q

Much information as we can from our our own database, so it's coming the.

Q

Information comes from, mls's database comes from toronto fires database and.

Q

Other divisions within the city and that's provided to the open data. But.

D

Maybe I can help stop well, I'm just trying to understand mr. live. Maybe we.

D

Have an open data master plan that was passed at city council right? We have a.

D

City of toronto, open data portal, I'm we're having enough trouble getting of.

D

Information from toronto fire services, the the standard almost universally, is.

D

They have one open data portal, access point, yeah and the toronto police have.

D

Already created their own open data portal website, the city has one and now.

D

We're gonna create another one. So, mr. mr. mayor, I think we can clear clear.

E

This up staff would have no objection to having the chief together with a city.

E

Solicitor and a city clerk include in the upcoming report that they're coming.

E

Out of this meeting recommendations were providing a fire safe program using the.

E

Open data standards consistent with the city's consistent with the city's open.

E

Data standards. Sorry, would you stop for a fine with that staff, our city staff.

D

Which, like rob, rob michael the cio objection to the chief, including in his.

E

Report, chief city, solicitor and city clerk, you could add any other division.

E

Head should like kelso all right. Thank you meritorious the other questions of.

C

Staff all right speakers all right tory. Yes, all. I would like to defer this item.

D

For a month, I don't think it's urgent that it be dealt with today, but I would.

D

Like to hear from from the fire chief himself, because I don't quite understand.

D

The time lag of going to cdr three times I had a similar experience, no offense to.

D

The toronto police department three times on open data before they created.

D

Their own open data portal website now I'm hearing that they're looking staff.

D

For looking at another open data portal website and having data all over the.

D

Place, it's fine to have it in public, but I have it all over. The place is not.

D

Really the proper way to do it, and neither the fire chief or the city's cio.

D

Is here so I think this is I'm not getting the answers, I'm looking for. I'm.

C

Very comfortable with the forget I mean there's nothing about it in the context.

C

Of having the fire chief go to cerf to talk about this, I don't think that.

C

Couldn't wait for a month and in the meantime we can get this. I mean this was.

C

A sidebar issue- it wasn't really referred to here per se. I guess it is in.

C

The context of mr. richardson having come to the committee, the tenant committee as well as here, so I I'm very I'm very comfortable that all the other.

C

Members, comfortable with that, why are we referring it back here? Why don't we? Why.

E

Don't we send it right to cdr where the fire chief normally attends, so we could.

C

Do that impart that? Can you refer committee to committee move that we.

B

Refer this do to cdr f as well. The issue of.

C

Open data on fire inspections: is that really a proper way to put it for you, no.

C

Further discussion and I'm fine, I'm fine with that. I think that actually does.

C

Make sense and then the fire chief can make one appearance there and deal with both items: yep, I'm fine with that. So can you want to move that it be.

C

Referred that the matter of the availability of open data on fire.

C

Inspections be referred, as also be referred to, the cdr f committee for and.

C

Request the fire chief to appear and and the cio questions on that and the cio.

C

And the cio want to put that aside. While you work on that judges fee and then we.

C

Can move to the next station severe it? So why don't we just hold on this item.

C

We'll come back to it and thank you do something. Okay. The next item is 30 2.18.

C

Municipal licensing standards update on heat and apartments and we have a.

C

Deputation from darryl truong from the greater toronto apartments association.

C

Hello, sir, thank you for your patience today been a long day. Thank you, and over.

C

To you, I'm daryl with the greater toronto apartment association, we.

D

Represent the owners of private sector rental, but a hundred and fifty thousand.

D

Units of purpose-built rental are in our membership. We've been working with.

D

Toronto, public health for a year and a half maybe a little bit longer on a.

D

Report and in may of 2017 less than a year ago, they tabled it. It's called.

D

Reducing vulnerability to extreme heat in the community and at home, this is the.

D

Report, it was approved, may 17, 27 teen and in the recommendations for b and.

D

It's in my letter that I think the clerk is distributing sorry, he didn't get that.

D

To you earlier, my highlighted recommendation for b says they want to.

D

Decrease the need for air conditioning and lower greenhouse gas emissions, so we.

D

Continue to work with them and we created a public communication piece in.

D

Coordination with them, a copy of it, is attached. It was a door hanger. We.

D

Distributed over a hundred thousand copies of this, our members, volunteers,.

D

Hung them on doors of apartment buildings, and this is what the toronto.

D

Public health department created in terms of artwork and messaging and right.

D

Now we know that they're going towards a strategy for increasing public cooling.

D

In the community- and this was just dealt with a week ago or february 14th at the.

D

Public by the board health meeting, so in today's report there is a powerpoint.

D

From mr. shreya, which you didn't go through, but it's attached on slide.

D

Number 13 clearly says that public health did not recommend a maximum.

D

Indoor temperature, but, however, at tenant issues committee a couple weeks ago, they.

D

Want recommendation one for city council to support in principle a maximum of 26.

D

Degrees celsius, so I'm here to ask you not to support that less than a year ago,.

D

Toronto, public health, after years of studying this and working with.

D

Us said: that's not the right way to go. It's contained in mr. schragus.

D

Powerpoints a presentation, so I'm just asking you not to support that. We want.

D

To continue to work with the public health department in the city to see.

D

What we can do in an ongoing manner to to mitigate any of these health issues.

D

But the buildings are old, they were built without any central ductwork and.

D

To install ductwork would be very time consuming and very probably not even.

D

Possible there concrete buildings without any sort of chase's to put.

D

Things in the electrical install in the public health report, the electrical.

D

Systems within each of these buildings probably can't support the electricity.

D

Demand that would go along with this, nor could the local transformers or the.

D

Citywide transformers so there's a number of reasons why this is not the.

D

Right way to go- and I'm just here to ask you to to not support that first.

D

Recommendation from the committee. Thank you. Thank you. Strong. Are there questions.

C

Of the deputy, all right, questions of staff, deputy merriman and well, we've got.

C

Deputy merriman I'm wrong and deputy mayor violet. Did you have your hand up.

C

Okay and council an easy, so we have three questions of staff, starting with.

C

You have you ever anymore, so it's true. There are 3,400 apartment buildings in.

I

The city, yes through the mayor deputy mayor many along there are thorough.

Q

Just over 3400 apartment buildings that fall under the rent safety, oh apartment.

Q

Building registry by law- so that's any building, that's three stories or higher.

Q

With ten or more units in it, so an 83% of them have hot water heating right.

I

That's correct so that would be somewhere around 28.

I

Hundred buildings, yes, yes, that would mean that there would be no forced air.

Q

That's correct, though so that means they'd have to have if you were to put.

I

Into some sort conditioning they'd have to have separate units put on every.

I

Single one of the units, so the practical outcome would be individual.

Q

Air-Conditioning units in each apartment- yes, so.

I

That'd be very difficult to do with it. Not. There are quite a few technical.

Q

Challenges associated with that, which is why I believe strong public health made.

Q

That recommendation their report last year and so and also if you were to do.

I

That those costs would be passed on, it could be passed on to the tenant through.

I

An above guideline increase yes, so they could be. This could result in them.

I

Paying more rent that's correct is any capital. Improvements could be subject to.

Q

An above guideline increase as well as we're aware that approximately 63% of.

Q

The buildings in the city are some meter, so the 10 extra electrical cost one.

I

That's correct, and so so in addition to that, we have no.

I

Visibility on whether on a really hot day, we know that's when those hot days.

I

That's when the the electrical grid is most tested and we're most likely to.

I

Have black blackouts or brownouts is that do we have any idea if we were to.

I

Put air-conditioned require air-conditioning in all these units to.

I

Meet this 26 degree thing how how toronto hydro would handle that.

I

And whether they have the capacity to handle that how long it would take for.

I

Them to build the infrastructure and what the cost associated, but that would.

Q

Be we do not have that direct information? We, as we are working to.

Q

Communicate with toronto hydro on that, but it's my understanding that.

Q

Especially during peak demand periods that the impacts would be substantial on.

Q

The electrical load I see and the environmental impacts of having air.

I

Conditioning units, thousands and thousands of apartments, my understanding.

Q

Is there was a commentary in our report that it's equivalent to a mid-sized.

Q

Generating plant would be required to supply that electrical demand for during.

Q

Peak summer months, all right, thank you very much thanks. We.

C

Had I mean deputy mayor denzil and one asked a lot of the.

G

Questions that I intended to ask just if a tenant has any desire or.

G

Need to have the air and air condition. Is there anything in the actor or.

G

Anything that prevents that the long landlord can stop him from having that.

G

Air conditioning unit or no there's no regulations, provincially or miss polly.

Q

That would prevent that it's strictly a landlord-tenant issue between them and.

Q

My understanding from speaking with the our colleagues at the great wrong.

Q

Apartment building association that the majority of their members do permit.

Q

Individual air-conditioning units in the buildings and it's my experience from.

Q

Our officers inspecting these buildings that we do see quite a few window.

Q

Mounted air conditioning units in the rental apartments, so this was a.

G

Recommendation by public health and mls not to have a maximum both both units.

G

Agreed that we should not go that way, that's correct. We think there's more of.

Q

A longer term strategy and solutions that we should be exploring and.

Q

Implementing before we consider something like of this nature, which has.

Q

A law of challenges technically next, we.

C

Had cancer ainsley and then cap councillor, george, oh you're, waving your.

C

Hand you have to leave the room or huh you want to be next dirty. Okay, but we have counseling is the next. I'm sorry, okay, you put you down after california,.

C

State right, thank you through your merit or ii just understand so this reports.

D

Looking at establishing a maximum heat level, that was a recommendation through.

Q

Emotion through tenant issues committee and then is there also do we also look.

D

At minimum heat level and apartments, that's already prescribed in our bylaws.

Q

That requires a minimum temperature of 21 degrees celsius, be maintained in.

Q

Rental apartment buildings and, and how was that monitored by mls? It's just so.

D

If I have an issue with my landlord, I would call you or email or 3-1-1 and say.

D

I'm not gaining enough heat, my apartment on tuesday, that's correct. We get about.

Q

Between a thousand to two thousand complaints a year about in.

Q

We heat or no heat in apartment units throughout the year and we respond to.

Q

Those by either 3 1 1 calls or directly to our offices. Ok, and how do you is that.

D

Monitor at all, are you would you send an inspector in an apartment, building or a.

D

Rental unit, that's had a complaint, you send an inspector in with a temperature.

D

Gauge and check the temperature and then go to the lord or that's correct. We we.

Q

Have to go and inspect and verify if, in fact, the temperature is between 21.

Q

Degrees celsius and if we do find it and we do take measurements with.

Q

Thermometers, if we find it's below that temperature, then we direct the landlord.

Q

To take immediate action either provide alternative heat sources such as.

Q

Electric heaters, if there is in fact a problem with the heating system in the.

Q

Building or address other issues that may be resulting in that inadequate heat.

D

And how do you do ongoing like if I have an apartment and the landlord mucking.

D

Around with the heat, so I would call every day and you would send an inspector at every day with a thermometer or a sorry thermostat. I'm.

Q

Not aware of us finding situations where we have landlords adjusting the heat.

Q

Arbitrarily or knowingly, usually, if there's an inadequate heat, there's.

Q

Either a mechanical problem with the heating system and seeing since the.

Q

Majority of our heating systems in these buildings is hot water systems and maybe.

Q

An air trap in the radiator system, or maybe problems with the hot water, not.

Q

Getting to that particular unit, so they investigate those, but we don't find them.

Q

Altering the frequent the temperature in the buildings arbitrarily or freq are up.

Q

And down because of the size of the systems, it's not that easy to regulate.

Q

It's not like a furnace in a house, for instance, so once you send an inspector.

D

In based on a complaint, you get very few repeat offenders. We get very few repeat.

Q

Offenders and except for we do have one or two landlords. Perhaps that constantly.

Q

Are not providing adequate heat on a continual basis? Those once we deal with.

Q

Individually, I don't want to say that all our landlords are perfect because.

Q

They're not, but it's not a system-wide issue. Ok, and you don't do anything, I.

D

Know there's other jurisdictions for exam new york city had there's a group called heatseeker where they have a like a mana.

D

Monitoring device they leave in the apartment, so you can measure the heat.

D

And it's done wirelessly the homeowner doesn't even need an internet connection.

D

We've never looked at any technology like that, so you're not sending.

D

Inspectors out again for the relatively small percentage of heat complaints, we.

Q

Get considering we have over 300,000 apartment units in the city, getting.

Q

Between a thousand to two thousand complaints a year and those aren't.

Q

Verified those are just the complaint numbers, I don't don't see the need for.

Q

That at this moment, okay, all right, thank you. Thank you, mara,.

D

Torrey, thank you councillor. We had a question. Thank you, smith. Couple of.

F

Questions in terms of enforcement does the enforcement is some complaint basis.

F

Or do we have some sort of proactive enforcement through the mayor to.

Q

Councilor pilate, all no it's through complaints, as our enforcement through.

F

Complaints- this item was before the mizpah licensing standards committee and.

F

I believe that was a year ago approximately, and also there was a.

F

Report from the public health- I believe that was in may is that correct. That's.

F

Correct yes, now the public health division clearly had different.

F

Recommendations in terms of the educational component to address this.

F

This problem wasn't that case, that's correct one of the issues we're finding.

Q

Is right now around what we call the shoulder season, which is in the may and.

Q

For late september or hour by law currently requires that landlords must.

Q

Provide heat and maintain a minimum temperature from.

Q

Temper 15th to june 1st of every year that by law provision has caused some.

Q

Confusion in the industry we're building owners believe that means they have to.

Q

Have their heating systems on regardless of exterior to the outside temperatures.

Q

Come september 15th up until june 1st, so what we're.

Q

Proposing is we need to do a better enforcement education strategy or.

Q

Communication with those building owners making them order what the bylaw.

Q

Requirements are having better clarity around that requirement, so they.

Q

Understand that they do not have to turn on their heating systems if, for instance,.

Q

It's 30 degrees celcius outside, like it was as passover. Do you support these.

F

Recommendations based on what you just said, that is our recommendation. Yes,.

Q

Thank you. I think you miss me. Okay, you're all done.

C

Thank you very much councillor on my list, chair casalecchio,.

C

Digiorgio very, very uh just have a couple of quick questions. Mister scragga.

H

In keeping the we're saying that the maximum temperature during the summer.

H

Months has to be a 26 degrees, correct. No, we do not have. We do not have a bylaw.

Q

That prescribes that other than in our property standards bylaw, we do have a.

Q

Requirement that says, if a building has air conditioning it shall be on and.

Q

Maintain a maximum temperature of 26 degrees, maximum temperature shall be 26.

H

But if, in the event where you've got a building, it doesn't have ductwork you're.

H

Saying that the landlord has to make provision for each of the units to put.

H

In a window unit for air conditioning or just suggest that they put them in no, we.

Q

Are not recommending that that's just the motion and that came from tenant.

Q

Issues committee would lead to that, should it be adopted, but would it be.

H

Mandatory that the the landlord would have to, if it were adopted, would have to.

H

Make sure that each unit owner would have a unit tenant would have a window.

H

Unit or would it be optional? Well, I.

Q

Based on the fact that over 83% 83% of these apartment, buildings do not have.

Q

Any central ductwork in them the only way to achieve that requirement of 26°.

Q

Would be through individual air conditioning units and each apartment.

Q

Built unit, but it would be optional, it would be optional right, it wouldn't be.

H

Mandatory to on the landlord tenant to ensure that they all had one if council.

Q

Adopted a bylaw that said, maximum temperature could not exceed 26 degrees.

Q

Celsius and an apartment unit, the only way, I believe that you could achieve.

Q

That is by putting an individual air conditioning units, but mandatory.

Q

Mandatory all right, thank you. Thank you councillor. Thank you, so this.

E

Resilient cities project: do you mean tower renewal councillor? Could you.

Q

Repeat that you're implementing the resilient cities project is that do you.

E

Mean tower the tower renewal program: no, that is work, that's being done by other.

Q

Divisions in the city and that I believe, the chief resiliency officer, that is on.

Q

Their work plan and then how did you.

E

Come up with a 21 degree minimum for heat that is based on.

Q

Historically, that's always been in the city's heating, vital services by law. The.

Q

Province has a different number other. Miss penalties range between 20 degrees,.

Q

To 21 degrees celsius, the history of why toronto's is 21 degrees. I don't have.

E

That history, the province, is 2020. Okay. What? If someone feels that's too hot.

E

Because, personally, I do, but what, if they find that's too hot, what can they do.

E

Anything nothing! Oh I'm not aware of us getting too many.

Q

Complaints about apartments being too high if we're talking a temperature of.

Q

21 degrees versus 20 degrees, usually when we get complaints about 21, are.

Q

Being too hot, it's well in excess of the 25 to 30 degree.

Q

Mark, okay: thanks did you ask question already you want to ask another question.

C

Pardon me, you want to ask another question: alright, that's alright! If you.

G

Want to it's fine, thank you, so I just want to make sure I get this right. So your your concern is that by solving that the heat issue for the.

G

Tenants you're, actually creating a huge environmental issue. Is that what you're.

G

Trying to tell us within the vigil units and so on and so forth, there's a.

Q

Multitude of issues that would come out of this- that is one component of it.

Q

That's why this is a very complex matter. It's not as simple as just give.

Q

Everybody, an air conditioning unit, there's the impacts on the electrical.

Q

Grid both on the private side of the building, the infrastructure for toronto.

Q

Hydro and then, ultimately, what is the outcome of the greenhouse gas emissions.

Q

And the environmental impacts from that increase electricity demand and.

Q

Generation we also need to acknowledge that we're getting more of these heat.

G

Waves than than usual, it's an increasing issue in our city. So what are we doing.

G

To working with the industry to to address this issue through the mayor's.

E

And from toronto public health, the heat relief network, they're about to pilot.

E

This summer is based on a jurisdictional review that we did when we were asked to.

E

Review the cooling centers that the city has last summer was a particularly cool.

E

Summer, so it was difficult to get enough data to really look at the cooling.

E

Centers and give you an answer about how effective they are. But when we looked at.

E

Other jurisdictions in parallel, especially us cities in this southern us.

E

Belt they use all the public spaces they could find in addition to spaces that.

E

The private sector make available like malls in addition to community.

E

Organizations like faith organizations and they create then what they call heat.

E

Relief network across the whole city: that's what we're proposing to implement.

E

As a pilot in partnership with each of the divisions that would affect, because.

E

Obviously, there's some challenges to work out to make that accessible to.

E

People, but what it would do was it would allow some.

E

Who is feeling too hot in an apartment building to get to a close.

E

Cool space instead of trying to get to one of the seven cooling centers in the.

N

City, because you would literally have hundreds of options to go to so we want.

N

To give that a chance to work itself out and see what we see in terms of.

E

Complaints and also work with the landlords to make sure that they're.

E

Making available to their tenants and work with staff that work with people.

E

Who are vulnerable to make sure those folks know what the options are when.

E

They're out or when they're at home to get into cool space. So I want to give.

N

That heat relief network a chance cuz it's been used quite successfully in the.

E

U.S., it's recommended by the centers for disease control as an effective way to.

E

Manage the heat risk of the health risk of heat and, if I can add to that, also.

Q

We're looking at with our partners, towel renewal, incentives and encouragement for.

Q

Building owners to be perhaps changing that when they change their windows.

Q

Systems to put in more open above when dough's, so they can have enhanced.

Q

Ventilation- insulating of the buildings, perhaps shading or glaze different.

Q

Glazing on the windows, especially if there's a south-facing apartment unit,.

Q

Which would get more increased ambient heat from the sun during the summer.

Q

Months versus the north-facing, so it's there's a multitude of different.

Q

Strategies that can be brought in to help alleviate the heat in the apartment.

Q

Units all right, I think, that's the end of questions of staff and I think we'll.

C

Now move to speakers and I'd like to acknowledge the deputy mayor, I've been.

C

Wrong first motion: sorry: what okay, all right I'll just be very quick, and I do.

E

Apologize if it was asked, but you know you have a 20 25, 30, 35 storey, building.

E

You're going to get different heat levels depending on the elevation.

E

Depending on what the personal uses in the in the apartment, cooking or cleaning.

E

Or what have you, the type of appliances they have and and so forth? How could you.

E

Ever enforce a bylaw that could vary that a number could vary throughout the.

E

Building you're quite correct councilor. There.

Q

Those challenges as well associated with him enforcing such a bylaw, is your.

E

Recommendation to send us to council without recommendation or to defeat it.

Q

This was not a recommendation from staff counselor. This was a motion that came.

Q

From 10th issue committee to executive, it was not stuff initiated mostly. I was.

C

Just asking, I think your question might be answered by something that the deputy.

C

Mayor might arrest in his remarks. Okay, fair enough, so any other questions of.

C

Staff fund, then we will move on and that is to the deputy mayor to speak yeah. I.

I

Have a motion- and it's referring this item to the municipal licensing.

I

Standards committee you're welcome, so the so the guts of this are. I want to.

I

Look at an assessment of the implications of adding air-conditioning units to the electricity grid and its capacity, which we have no visibility. On.

I

Whatsoever, the estimated average operating cost to an apartment, tenant.

I

Where the unit is sub metered, we may ask them to put in air-conditioning units.

I

But some folks won't be able to afford it.

I

The impact of about bubble guideline rent increases resulting from the cost.

I

Of retrofitting all apartments with air conditionings, so they may not be able to.

I

Afford getting the air conditioners if they don't have the choice? They'll still.

I

Get a rent increase and a strategy to ensure landlords don't exacerbate any.

I

Discomfort through not turning air air conditioning or on keeping heat on in.

I

The event of a warm weather period prior to june, 2nd 2018, so pretty simple stuff.

I

We don't we actually don't have a full answer on this and details matter in.

I

This particular arrangement, especially in the summertime, when we're testing.

I

Where we're taxing our grid and we could be inviting brownouts or worse so, let's.

I

Find out about all those costs, this is a far more complicated than would appear.

I

Keeping in mind that we actually do want to make sure that all the residents.

I

Especially, are ones that are particularly at risk, get a certain level.

I

Of protection, that's it! Thank you, deputy, where others.

C

To speak I'll just mentioned, I didn't have. I didn't see the motion before so.

G

I'll deal with it at council, but I will add something to the motion because I.

G

Think that it is important that what the director of mls was actually talking.

G

About on it's not so much the incentives, but how we can work with the landlord's.

G

To the retrofit that happens to their buildings to help with the heat needs to.

G

Be looked at: it's not just not telling tenants how bad it would be for them if.

G

This was to happen is how do we get to work with the landlord's and doing those.

G

Changes when they're changing the windows when they're doing all this, it's.

G

When these retrofits happen, how can we ensure that they happen in a way that.

G

There's going to translate into a better environment and less heat for tenants.

G

Because this is happening more and more in our city and I think we need to.

G

Proactive looking into this, I know that our resilience officer officer through.

G

The tower renewal is working into some of this and I think we need to bring.

G

These two issues together, how we're renewing our towers and how we deal with.

G

Some of these issues that are going to be more prevalent in our city and half.

G

Of our you know, city, thousands and thousands of people live in in these.

G

Buildings with the landlord, so we need to come together to address these issues.

G

And I think needs to be part of the motion. So I'll add something at council.

G

I didn't have an opportunity, I didn't see the motion, but I'm supportive of.

G

This, but I think we're just we're just missing one more one more talking about.

C

It I wouldn't mind if you move to friendly amendment just to include, for example, even the chief resiliency officer being included as part of that.

C

Discussion, the deputy mayor is sure it's just that we need to ensure that that.

G

Conversation has happened that those changes are happening when, when the.

G

Retrofits are being done that they're being done to acknowledge that we do.

G

Have pressures that it is the responsibility of us as a city and the.

G

Landlord's to work together to address it, a lot of those being financed to by.

C

The entire government, with some of that money there exactly and at the end of.

G

The day works better for everybody because they also have other benefits, but I think we need to work. Thank you, sir mayor just I'll, be.

F

Extremely short, this heidemann was deal with her. The municipalities in.

F

Standard understanding committee of canceled course and a length- and I was.

F

Less than a year ago, so two city staff, they went the extra mile to have a very.

F

Healthy debate where all the stakeholders were included so from that.

F

Perspective, I think we have had a conversation sending it back to the.

F

Committee: okay, let's deal with it and the, but that conversation have taken.

F

Place with all the stakeholders, with input from there from the transvaal.

F

Health as well, thank you thank you. Cancer, patio, others to speak all right.

C

We're ready to call the question then, on councillor deputy mayor: oh yes, we do. We.

C

Go back to 1732 17. We were just finalizing a motion on that. Where are we here? Yes, and it was to have the fire chief come to address the open data.

C

Issue, if I can put it that way as well, similarly provides for report to cdr f.

C

By the fire chief and the cio about open data- and I think that's consistent with.

C

Our discussion that we want to see that happen all right.

C

So we'll move first, this question on this motion from council ainsley.

C

And all those in favor and then the item as amended to include council ramsey's.

C

Motion which also had chief coming to do something else on regulatory changes all.

C

Those in favor opposed carried, so both the motion amending motion and the item.

C

As amended carried all right and then we're just sorting out number 18 now and.

C

Then we have left to deal with here. Just so I'm clear we have number 19 was being.

C

Held by a deputy mayor by law and then 21, which is the blockchain item, which.

C

Has some deputy? So why don't we? Why don't we go to the deputies just because.

C

They're waiting patiently and there are two deputies on the blockchain item- the.

C

X32 point 21 and the deputies are mr. luke bradley blockchain research.

C

Institute luke bradley here all right. If not then derek moran.

C

Okay, derek five minutes. Just so everyone knows the.

M

Toronto police have a financial crimes unit that financial crimes unit has.

M

Their own twitter account and meritor. You may recall at the police board last.

M

Month I showed everyone a tweet from the financial crimes unit at the trial.

M

Please it reads: as bitcoin bubble loses, air frauds and flaws rise to surface.

M

Crypto currencies are almost a perfect vehicle for scams.

M

Now I'm not qualified to say whether or not that's true, I'm just simply pointing.

M

Out this isn't me that this is what the toronto police are saying. So since, since.

M

They use the word frauds in this tweet metro, you're a lawyer, so you probably.

M

Have your own copy of the martins criminal code? I just want everyone to.

M

Take notice of the take notice of they they give the meaning of defrauds.

M

Generally, in the martins criminal code, it says the classic definition of fraud.

M

Is found in the judgment of I think it's buckley j in london and globe, finance.

M

Corporation 1903 to defraud is to deprive.

M

By deceit, it is by deceit to induce a man to act to his injury. More simply put.

M

It may be put that to deceive is by falsehood to induce a state of mind to.

M

Defraud is by deceit to induce a course of action. It was held, however, in scott.

M

Versus metropolitan police, commissioner 1974 that this definition is not.

M

Exhaustive in that to defraud or ordinarily means to deprive a person.

M

Dishonestly of something which is his or hers of something to which he is or.

M

Would or might be, but for the perpetration of the fraud be entitled in.

M

Our verses, renard, 1974 ontario court of appeal, the court held that a victim may.

M

Be defrauded by being deprived of something and he may be deprived of.

M

Something either by being de fraudulently induced to part with it or.

M

By having that to which he is entitled fraudulently, diverted or withheld from.

M

Him an accused accent procuring a third person to put him in a position to take.

M

Money to which the complainant would be otherwise entitled constitutes fraud. Our.

M

Versus cribs 1968 ontario court of appeal take notice the very beginning of.

M

The constitution act 1982 starts off with, whereas canada is founded upon.

M

Principles that recognize the supremacy of god in the rule of law take notice.

M

This is from the king. James version of the bible, matthew 21:12, ironically enough, were in scarborough and rush wrote an album.

M

Called 2112, so maybe that's where they got it from and jesus went into the.

M

Temple of god, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple and.

M

Overthrew the tables of the moneychangers and the seats of them that.

M

Sold doves know when you think about it: how does one get ahold of cryptocurrency.

M

Well, you got to take the colorful flashy shiny stuff in our pockets that most.

M

People think is money, it's not, and you have to change that into bitcoin or.

M

Aetherium or whatever cryptocurrency you're talking about so what matthew.

M

21:12 should say in this instance is, and jesus went to toronto city hall and cast.

M

Out councillor kelly councillor lee and all of them who would defraud the people of toronto by letting them pay taxes with cryptocurrency, but.

M

Not the remittance already provided for them alluded to in genesis, 4:3 and.

M

Overthrew the tables were deputy treasurer mike st. amant sat in.

M

Committee room number one and again the seats of them that sold doves because.

M

Take notice that there's we already have actually something called the currency.

M

Act 1985, it's a federal act, an act, respecting currency which reads short.

M

Title section 1: this act may be cited as the currency act.

M

Now I did a word search for cryptocurrency and nothing came up, so I.

M

Did a search for crypto, nothing came up, did a search for currency and something.

M

Came up so take notice that says public accounts and statements, section 12 all.

M

Public accounts establish her maintained in canada, shall be in the currency of.

M

Canada, in any reference to money or monetary value, in any indictment or.

M

Other legal proceedings shall be stated in the currency of canada, which is not.

M

Cryptocurrency sums mentioned in constitution in acts section 14 any sum.

M

Mentioned in dollars and cents in the constitution act 1988, een, 67 in 1982 and.

M

Any act of parliament shall, unless it is otherwise express, be construed as being.

M

A sum in the currency of canada, again cryptocurrency is not the currency of.

M

Canada, that monetary unit, by the way section 3.1, says the monetary unit of.

M

Canada is the dollar not a coin bit or bitcoin or whatever you guys are.

M

Planning on possibly doing but and on that note and on that note, because I.

M

Hear the transits not very good in scarborough, I gotta find my way back to yonge and eglinton soon very much appreciate questions of the deputed okay.

C

Hearing none all thank you. Are there questions of staff? Are there then.

C

Speakers visiting from outside the committee, and I see councillor kelly here and you're most welcome and please over to you well. Thank you. Mr. mayor.

E

I regret very much that luke bradley from the blockchain institute was not.

E

Here to address this issue, he has the expertise. Mr. mayor, I frankly don't know.

E

Very much about cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology, but here's what I.

E

Do know that we live in revolutionary times. There are people who are calling.

E

The age into which we're going as the or described it as the fourth industrial.

E

Fourth, industrial revolution that cryptocurrencies and blockchain.

E

Technologies are among the driving forces of this revolution that we as a.

E

Council and government should know more about them, their drawbacks and their.

M

Benefits the banks, businesses and the other two orders of government are.

E

Beginning to look more closely at them that one of the major centers of.

E

Blockchain research is right here in toronto that the city of toronto's.

E

Emerging brand mr. mayor and you're well aware of this is that of a creative city.

E

That not only accepts change but promotes it and finally, that in an.

E

Analysis of these forces would help us improve the many services we provide. Our.

E

Residents and to speak directly to the two parts of the motion that is before.

E

You I would recommend that the report back the to be changed to the second.

E

Quarter of 1919 and that in the first section that we add to it interested.

E

Stakeholders among those that look at this particular issue, those are my.

E

Thoughts and those are my recommendations, mr dout, there.

C

It's councillor kelly, and so someone on the committee, if they wish, will have to.

C

Put those two changes in one of which, on the timing, is quite significant and for our staff to have more time to have a look at this and accountant thompson mule, but there's on the table, and now that was councillor kelly speaking once.

C

I think do you wish to speak as a member of the committee, then it's your turn.

J

Thank you very much. Mr. mayor, I will move the amendments that kel sir kelly.

J

Speaking off and you mean 2019 correct, he said 19 19, 20, 19.

J

Is that correct? Come sir 20 19 right? Yes, right! Okay, fair enough.

J

So mr. mayor, I was reading a european, a newspaper and I talked a little bit.

J

About what we do know is a, I think, it's kodak, which was the great film company.

J

And so on or, and so they are now launching a whole production division.

J

They've bought in interest in a uk-based company that are into the crypto.

J

Currencies and so on. Clearly we know that at the outset there had been many.

J

Elements, though, of illegalities associated with people using them for.

J

Specific purposes, and so on, this is a this is a trend. This is a direction that.

J

The world is moving towards and as councillor kelley has pointed out, that.

J

Not lots, not many. People may understand the issue around the currency at the.

J

Moment so on, however, it appears that many in certainly the financial sector.

J

And, and and in business in general, now starting to pay attention to this, it's a.

J

New phenomenon that requires government as well to have strong understanding and.

J

I realize that there isn't a lot of regulations at the moment, but there is.

J

Efforts are being made to regulate and and to get a better handle.

J

In terms of the areas around cryptocurrencies, it's not going to go.

J

Away, it is something that we as government municipal governments, we have.

J

To understand, I suspect that maybe we don't have the.

J

Staffing capacity at the moment, but we can get that expertise to assist our.

J

Staff with respect to a better understanding so that we will all have a.

J

Better understanding and so on, so we're move. That's you know this. That's.

J

Currency phenomena and change is moving in the direction where these types of.

J

Currencies are being utilized as a form of money, money money as such, and so I.

J

Think we need to get a handle on that. We are very supportive of blockchain.

J

Technology, in fact, through edc, we are funding the institute here in toronto.

J

Because it is something that is going to have huge capacity in terms of platform.

J

Utilization, it's one I'm currently reading a couple of books on this.

J

Technology and it's actually fascinating in terms of how it can be utilized. I.

J

Think that there is huge benefits in terms of efficiency and opportunities.

J

For governments, and so on and the general population, the economy as a.

J

Whole is going to benefit and and clearly there's a lot of work to be done.

J

In this particular area, but I think what councillor kelley is saying look. This is.

J

Something that's taking place. We must have a better understanding of it that.

J

We must then make determination based on facts based on data and so on, how we.

J

Then implement that as part of our currency process, that we would accept as.

J

Municipality people are using the cryptocurrencies to buy homes, they're.

J

Doing all sorts of trade and activities, and so on and like everything else, there.

J

Are elements of illegalities an element of criminalities and so on? So what, as.

J

Part of that illegalities on that's in the purview that is this particular form.

J

Of currency, but it doesn't mean that we can't actually understand what the.

J

Requirements are to ensure that the the legal component part of him to how we.

J

Utilize, these currencies are done and I think that by definition is government.

J

We're required to have this understanding. How else, then, could we.

J

Either regulate or seek to incorporate it as part of a process in terms of how.

J

Payments are made because at this particular point in time, the issues that.

J

Our lack of understanding- and it is we heard a few months ago, so who's actually.

J

Trading these currencies, who are the beneficiaries and so on and and and what.

J

Are the societal and economic impact it will have an economic impact? I do.

J

Believe in time, and I think that it's important for us to get a better.

J

Understanding of this particular issue, I don't believe, as we've done with uber.

J

And other things through technology, mr. mayor, that we can hide and say we don't.

J

Want to deal with these things, we must deal with them. We may decide that this.

J

Is not something that we want to let's implement, but at least have the facts.

J

First and foremost before we make those particular decisions, so I'm with council.

J

Kelley and others- and I ask others to support this moving it forward 2019. I.

J

Don't know if I'll be here in 2019, but nonetheless the city will be here in.

J

2019, so I think the process that we need to advance thanks, counselor thompson.

C

Others to speak well. Thank you, mara, torrey. I do have a motion that I wanted.

D

The motion simply says the relevant staff be asked to include within their report and analysis on potential security, cryptocurrency and blockchain.

D

Technology is a very new form of payment system academy for years. Just recently,.

D

Their cyber coins or crypto technology currency can be hacked, there's been a.

D

Couple of instances when we're gonna be done, the backing the splitting the item.

C

Into as a man umber one as amended separately from number two here, no, he asked yes, so we have to split it with the amended version. Oh right.

C

Okay, so counselor many more has asked on clause 1 as amended that it should be.

C

Deceptive recorded votes, all those recorded vote on number one to.

C

Manhattan and then will board a number twos every so on clause, one as amended.

E

All those in favor it was just up there a second ago.

C

A weekend just changes the date everything all.

E

Those in favor councillor ainsley councillor crawford.

E

Giorgio natori flat co-counselor pasternak councillor thompson, all those.

E

Opposed councillor bulow council, I definitely.

E

Merriman and wong all right, the motion passes 8 to 2 vote. Now we have to vote.

C

On claus, we don't need to record, but all those in favor of claus you wanted.

C

A credible okay, so all those in favor of recommendation number 2 councillor.

E

Ainsley constable ow councillor crawford councillor digiorgio.

E

Council mcmahon, deputy merriman and wong in our tory.

E

Counterplot co-counsel, pasternak and councillor thompson posted passes.

E

Anonymously all right and then the item well, we've had passed both parts and.

C

Would have to any more votes, that's it. We just passed both parts and then we.

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Have to pass incorporating councillor means these amendment as well, so we do.

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So the the overall item, including california's amendment, all those in.

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Favor opposed carrie. Okay, we have to go back now to one more thing that we had.

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Which was the air-conditioning and then also we have the one more affordable.

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Housing issue, so the air-conditioning was number 17. I.

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Think wasn't it? No, it wasn't 17, it was 18 18. So we had we're just waiting for a.

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Motion on that did we have that. All right is that we had one with just a.

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Slight amendment to include the the resiliency officer yeah, who is moving.

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That and then we just amended it is that, do we have an up-to-date version of the.

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Motion on number 17 to put up 18 rather.

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So they're the the amendment, the change is just to reference up there in the.

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Third line from the top in consulting and consultation with a chief resilience.

E

Officer is that really the change that was made okay, so I think it covers off.

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What deputy mayor barlow was getting at all right? Are we ready to put the.

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Question on this end, all those in favor opposed carry. Ok, then last, but certainly.

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Not least, that would bring us to item number 19, 30, 32, 19,.

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The rental housing market conditions and that was held for deputy mayor viola are.

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There questions of staff: okay, then speakers. Yes, I have an amendment to the.

G

Recommendations to item 1 and 2, and so the first one is actually to have this.

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Recommendation being part of the report that is going to be coming to toronto.

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East, your community council on laneway housing and the second one is to have.

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The recommendation being part of the housing opportunities plan, the city will.

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Be embarking in a long-term plan for housing, and so this recommendation is a.

G

Good one, but it should be part of the whole housing strategy done for the city.

G

So that is my recommendation, so that's.

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Just the one minute that yep okay, all right, are there any questions of the.

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Mover or others wishing to speak, you have a question in the cancer laska.

F

Yep tomato just for clarification on recommendation number one. So it's with.

F

Regards to the lane we housings so is that the intention of it is, it seems.

F

Like the recommendations that came from the tenants issue, committee are kind of.

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Premature giving what's taking place well, actually, the recommendation from.

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The tenants committee didn't have a date, and this work is actually being done as.

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We speak because there is a report coming to may, and so this is just to.

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Clarify the work is being done anyway, so we just want to make sure that we.

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Acknowledge the request and and ask it to come back in this planning.

F

Departments are really working on exactly also pilot project underway with.

F

The? U of t's! All of these yes premature in relation to what's.

F

Coming forward with regard to the recommendation, number two is the.

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Affordable housing communities already dealing with them, and I believe that the.

F

City hire the canadian centre for economic analysis to deepen their.

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Knowledge in terms of the housing market across across the board, so the purpose.

F

Of your recommendation is actually, since the affordable housing community is.

F

Already working on it, this will be kind of duplicating the.

F

Work exactly we want to have one strategy. One report not have housing.

G

Being done, housing strategy being done in silos and all kinds of departments, we.

G

Need to as a city as a council will we're gonna have the opportunity to have.

G

A discussion about housing strategy for the next ten years, the the work in order.

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To give us the information to give us, the data is already well underway. We're.

G

Gonna have to the opportunity to see some of that and in june and july and.

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Then staff will have another six months to work on it and in 2019, when we come.

G

Back we're gonna have the next ten-year housing plan, and this should be.

G

Absolutely part of that plan the rental mark and how to deal with it needs to be.

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A big part of that market, and so again we're just acknowledging this is some.

G

Important work that needs to be done. It should not be done in isolation and.

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Separately from the housing action plan, the report.

F

From the tenants issue, committee has three recommendations and the last.

F

Recommendation because it's actually asking for city council to direct the.

F

Chip planner to secure tenancy preventer for renters in apartments with less than.

F

Six units across the city- I'm not commenting on the review, I'm not.

F

Amending that recommendation, I'm amending these two recommendations. Okay,.

F

Thank you thanks ed councillor, palacio, other questions of the mover or others.

C

Wishing to speak all right, others wishing to speak all right, I'm ready to.

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Call the question then: first on the amendment counter bylaws amendment a.

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Motion to a man, all those in favor opposed him, both in separately on.

F

Recommendation number three: please: you wanted to have the separate vote, which.

C

One on recommendation number three: three: okay, we'll have a vote on recommendation.

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Number three first and then we'll do one two and four together.

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I assume that's acceptable, so recommendation 3 we'll have did you want.

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A court recorded vote or just a separate vote, separate vote all right. All those.

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In favor of recommendation, 3 recommendation 3 all those in favor, okay,.

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Opposed all right carried and then items.

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Recommendations, 1 & 2 at 1 as amended, and all those in favor opposed carry.

C

Okay, I believe that brings us to the end of our business. May I just before we go.

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To things I want to say, first of all, in your behalf when I say word of thanks to.

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The clerk's office, in particular for all of their help in organizing this meeting.

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Held in scarborough, I think I think it was a very important thing.

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That we did to have this meeting here, we'll assess it and decide based on all.

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The different considerations, how we go forward with this kind of idea, but I.

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Think that they helped to make this happen today and as you can see, there were some things they had to worry about that we're not just the kind of usual.

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That we would face at city hall, so I want to thank them most sincerely for.

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That and and and secondly, and not less important by any means, may I just.

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Acknowledge, as somebody did earlier on, not only is it john libby's last meeting.

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Of the executive committee that he will attend all things being as scheduled, but.

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Also peter wallace's, and I wanted to say to them first of all, they probably are.

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Going out to have a bottle of champagne tonight, because they don't have to come back to any of these meetings, but I'm just kidding I'm sure they enjoyed them and would like us to schedule a special meeting before they leave. But may I just.

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Say that at all of these meetings, so we even had john filling in as sort of.

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Acting fire chief today, but they have you, know, conducted themselves in my time.

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Here, as as consummate professionals and been of great help to us and to the.

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People of the city of toronto in helping us to consider the matters in front of.

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This committee, that we consider so I want to just record here our thanks to.

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Both of them for all the time they spent in front of the executive committee.

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Which has been considerable even in the last four years, so thank you very much.

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Both of you- and we will have more occasions later to.

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Dissect their great contributions to the public sector, but on that note I will.

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Say, thank you to them again in to the clerk's and thank you all and we will.

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Stand adjourned.