VMware Carvel Community Meetings, 8 Mar 2023

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From YouTube: Carvel Community Meeting - March 8, 2023

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Carvel Community Meeting - March 8, 2023
This week we went over the roadmap survey results and next steps. We also had a few discussion topics covering UX design. See full agenda/notes here: https://hackmd.io/G8dN30WvQl-8Sirnp8AgRA#March-8-2023-Agenda--

A

Here we are hello, hello, hello. Welcome to this week's edition of our Carvel community meeting today is the 8th of March of 2023 and, uh as you can see, Nancy is not here. I miss me I'm, hoping that she will join in a little bit, but for now you're stuck with me as your MC today. uh So um if you are watching uh this has a recording, we encourage you to come and join us live every second in fourth week, Wednesday at 9 00 a.m. Pacific time uh you can come we'll talk about it.

A

Well, if you come here, we can discuss about things and we can provide a feedback, live and ask questions and all of those good things, and if you need any help with the tool, then you're stuck. You can come here and just ask us, and we will be more than happy too more than happy to help you uh so for your letter here today. If you have anything that you'd like to discuss, please uh add it to the discussion topics on our meeting and let me share my screen.

A

I do have a our community meeting here. There we go. I hope you all can see the community meeting um hack, MD docs. So if you have anything that you'd like to discuss, please add the topics to the discussion topics here uh and we'll try and get to there um and yeah, so I think that's more or less it.

A

So we would like to ask you if you, when you're in our meeting and you're, interacting with the community, to try to uh fall and abide by our code of conduct uh and I, think that's it for our introduction. I think I missed something uh but I'm. Quite sure. Nancy is not gonna. Chastise me a lot for that. uh So, let's see uh so we do have our carpool channel uh on our kubernetes like.

A

If you have any question and if you're not able to come to this meeting, just you can go there and and um talk to us we'll we are pretty responsive. There are at least we try to be, and we also have our Twitter handle. Some people try reach out to us ing Twitter. So if you want to there, we go all right. So for everybody that is joining the meeting today, you can add please your name on the attendees list, so we can have an idea of who's here.

A

I see that if some people already signed in that's awesome all right so.

B

Joel you want me to take over oh.

A

Do you want to take over yeah so.

B

Sorry I, my internet was not cooperating, I couldn't figure anything out, I finally got it all. Working and I don't have slack on my phone, so anyways I'm here do.

A

You want to share.

B

um Share my screen, yeah I'll, share.

A

Myself: okay, I'll, stop sharing that nope nope nope there we go for it, Nancy.

B

Thank you for taking over you're the best.

B

All right so, as joao mentioned, put your name in the attendees list. If you're here, it is optional, helps us keep track of those uh that are at our meeting and we can um see who, from who, from outside of VMware, is attending the community meeting.

B

uh Moving on to announcements.

B

So um for those that have seen the last few weeks, we've been trying to get the community's input on what our project roadmap looks like and if you're not familiar with what the term roadmap is it just kind of means like what?

B

What does it look like and then for the next year, what the team is going to be actively working on to put into into development for the different tools like different feature, requests things like that, so we sent out this survey asking for you know what are the top issues that have been living in any of the different tools and out of those top issues.

B

You know what is the the number one thing you know that you you want us to work on so after a couple of surveys, uh both surveys end up getting between 21 and 24 responses. So we had a really good turnout, which is super exciting and the four issues that top them all. The latest survey is uh the one that's kind of listed as cargo overall, it's the signature and slsa attestation for carbo artifacts Thomas. Thank you so much for putting this issue in in there.

B

It seems to be quite popular across the community and as well as folks within VMware as well. uh Then we have image package which is ability to extract images from bundles into a registry which had four votes, and then we had ytt, which is support, emitting comments and results in yaml and cap controller with three votes add ability to fetch resources from the cluster, so we had about nine different choices. These are the top four I just wanted to mention some that folks input on their own.

B

Whenever we said you know, if none of these resonate, what what was something that we missed, that you would like to see. So these are the honorable mentions, so I'm sure you're curious. What are the next steps for this?

B

uh So right now, what we're going to be doing is going over the scope of all of these and kind of get a more solid plan in place um as to when we can put each one into priority based on what the team is already working on, um making sure we have all the resources to do that, put together some proposals, all that fun stuff, and once we have more solid information on when to expect these and they're in our roadmap and with a clear you know, um I guess length of time so like is it coming in Q3 years of you know, coming you know when it.

B

When is all this, um we will let you know- and hopefully those that said that they are interested in contributing, will uh participate and help us work on these tools, so it'd be really cool to see to have. Some of these um could be collaborated on between maintainers and contributors from outside of VMware.

B

Any questions on that.

C

B

So content, since we last met, uh we had a Choose Your, Own, Adventure and ytt won. So thank you to everyone who watched and voted uh it was. You know super exciting to see ytt get that sort of recognition in what it can do to help you.

B

um So if you haven't seen that Choose Your Own Adventure be sure to go check it out, what it is is it's um uh Whitney, Lee and um Skye Victor who are going through the cncf roadmap and kind of you know doing step by step on how they all work together and which one you know, as you can imagine, on. Different tools in the cncf landscape are kind of do this similar things so we're trying to see like okay, which one out of these things that are similar, might be better for the next step.

B

So um I encourage you to go, watch that and then um the other episodes that are in that series and then I believe. um Just a few days ago, Whitney Lee posted this quick little video of what is K build. It's like you know a minute long.

B

If not, if not less um just gives you a high level overview of what cable does and I expect to see more videos like this for all the tools and just kind of quick, quick little sound bites little snack, snacky snack bites of what the tools do and then upcoming.

B

um We have Cora: oh I'm, I, typo, iberclade and Lee Capilli they're gonna they're, working on a Blog on a deep dive on Carvel's cables, followed by a video series, so stay tuned for that, and then we have Carvel at kubecon.

B

So we have a few things going on at kubecon in Amsterdam, and um you know it's it's our first time being a cncf Sandbox project having our project booth in the project Pavilion, and we are also taking advantage of having an in-person project meeting which is linked out here. It's in the schedule.

B

So, if you're attending kubecon and you want to come meet some of the uh maintainers and people that work on it meet me, um we'll have a project meeting on Tuesday April 18th at 2 30 pm, and this is basically kind of like an in-person community meeting.

B

um And you know we can engage, go over topics just similar to what we do here on zoom and meet people in person. Answer questions all sorts of fun stuff um at this time, so hopefully we'll get to see you there and then the project booth at the project Pavilion. So we have a full-time slot, so we have Wednesday Thursday Friday and it's 10 30 a.m to 9, 00 p.m, on Wednesday, 10, 30 to 5, 30 on Thursday and then 10 30 to 2 30 on Friday. So we'll have um some maintainers there.

B

We'll have people from the community also representing carbo, be there to answer questions and um if you're interested in in helping out with the booth, we would love the help. So you know we we have these two hour shifts available um and it's just you know you kind of answer questions you talk about what the tools do.

B

If, at any point you you don't know to answer to a question, it's totally fine and you can just say like oh I- don't know that but I'll make sure you know, I'll get the answer for you or or you know, maybe direct them to the website or something like that. um But you know we would. We would love some members of the community to to help out here. um We're just super excited to have our first debut um here at this project. Booth, any questions on that or the content before we move forward nope.

B

Okay, all right, we have releases NYX cat, 0.55.

B

Anyone here to talk about that.

D

Oh, so we have a couple of exciting things in in this release of cap. uh So to start with, we have made some changes on how that deals with the status field, uh mobile, basically redeploying.

D

Like the thing so earlier, we just used to copy everything from the existing resource like the whole status and then uh me copy it and add it to the new resource so that there would be no diff over there, but that was causing issues and scenarios where there would be some uh changes and how the status looks like struck uh some changes in the structure of status.

D

So now we have uh change this behavior and basically the status bill now comes under death against uh last applied field. Exclusion rules, so it'll be completely excluded, while checking if uh the last applied resource is a valid one or not.

D

So it won't come up in the diff unless there are some other changes in in the resource, uh and we have also take in a way updated how tab shows the errors produced by a cap, controller, apps, yours and package installs and package repositories as well, I think so.

D

uh Right now, most in most of the scenarios, the actual error message goes into useful error message field. So if that is available, we try to show it as part of the actual error when uh mencap is being used to deploy those resources.

D

uh There is a small performance enhancement as well, uh so when cap is usually create a new app uh at that time, we don't list labeled resources, because the app is just created, so there's no chance that there would be a resources present with that label. So we are removing those calls.

D

uh Also, there was an issue where uh I think we have talked about it in like couple of community meetings before that, when the number of characters in a cap app name are more than 63, it fails because it's used as a label key in app changes, so that is now fixed uh and we are also garbage collecting app changes when uh Annapolis leak not successfully deleted so early or happens is when we are trying to delete a cap app. We delete all the app changes as well, but in case uh the deletion fails.

D

Then the delete changes remain over there. So uh now we are all the garbage collecting in those scenarios and an issue occurs during hotly so yeah that I guess covers most of the major changes in this release.

B

All right, thank you. Perine.

B

Any questions on that release.

E

I, have one quick question? Is the label change that you mentioned? Is that a breaking change.

D

uh In a way, yes, so breaking change for app changes so for deployments. For example, if you have a an app deployed via an old version of cap- and you are trying to deploy it again with the new version for existing apps, there are actually no breaking changes even for app changes. uh What we have tried to do is introduce it in a face so for this face when a new app is getting created and the number of characters are more than 63. Only in that scenario we don't add.

D

The old label take all label as in the one which, with the app name itself, but if there are less than 63 characters, then we add both the old label and a new label so later on. We can actually switch to the new label itself and get rid of the label.

E

Yeah that makes sense, I think if anyone is relying on that label, the release notes are not like super clear that it's changing, so it might be worth even just adding a note to the release, notes or something just because I think that's a change in expected Behavior.

E

If you were relying on that old label which probably shouldn't but there's always somebody that relies on things that they shouldn't write.

D

Yep that makes sense.

D

B

Awesome thanks Neil for pointing that out and any other questions or comments.

B

Okay, moving on to status updates, um I already went over project roadmap plans so moving to backlog um so for okay control stuff. Who can speak on that.

F

Yeah I've been working on that task as I'm making the pull request, and now it's in reviews on yeah addressing the comments there. This is about. When we are the repository to a cluster, we can create the namespace as part of the same command rather than having to create a namespace as a separate command.

B

All right um and are you working with anybody directly on this- looks like Dimitri, Trenton and.

F

Yeah yeah also something helped me through yeah got me through the code base at the beginning, so that was really helpful.

B

Wow, that's awesome. That's really cool to see that you're working on this.

B

uh Anybody have any questions or comments on this.

C

No just got so many kids off for a couple of days. He'll be back next Monday Monday on Tuesday, um so Thomas hang in there. There is any review required to happen soon.

F

Yes, no problem. Thank you.

B

All right, yeah, thank you. Thomas.

B

Okay, uh moving on to discussion topics, ux design help uh is having an empty value for the Target cluster, reasonable.

E

uh So this help is from me: um we have a first-time contributor, wolfdale phlegm pronouncing that correctly, um so they are having they would like it so that when you deploy a cap controller app, you have two choices. You can deploy it into the cluster that you are currently on or you can provide a cubeconfig and it can go into any cluster that you have access to.

E

um But getting visibility of that is quite challenging. You have to basically go look at the spec for your app to see where is it deployed into which cluster, and so the suggestion here is to provide another column that when you call qctl get apps that you will be able to see which cluster is deployed to I think there has been a couple of comments down below also from our good friend.

E

um Oh my gosh Mr voice. So I think it's um it's mostly a UI Exchange, so the pull requests that they have created because we currently do not expose in any way the name of your cluster in the app spec like by default you're just on whatever cluster you're deploying to we don't expose that so the workaround that they have currently in the pull request is to leave it empty, or maybe have a word like this or local, or something to describe the current cluster and then have the full name of any external clusters.

E

You have selected in your app CR. So if you look at that little description box, we have the current flow, so we do kkit app. You obviously cannot see which cluster is deployed to. But when you do, Dash o wide you'll see a new Target cluster column, and you can see that for apps, where you're on this cluster it's empty.

E

So let me grab the annotate so like right here, it's empty and then for external ones, where you can get that information we provided.

E

So this was mostly a request to see if anyone on the call um had any like concerns with an empty value or like a keyword such as like this um or, if, like this user experience, is so bad that we would really want to go and expose what the current cluster is, which would be a much more complicated change set, because we currently don't do that. So we'd have to introduce a new feature to expose the current cluster name such that we can actually provide it to this column.

A

D

A

For it not to be current, instead of.

E

When you say current, you mean, like the word current yeah, no.

A

E

Just asking because, like.

A

I was thinking like local when I hear local I assume it's in my machine uh and like how can you say that you like? How can you express that this is running in a cluster? That's not like local. You know, but you're that you're targeting right and the word current popped up, and it feels okay like to be verified.

A

If I see the an empty space there like I'm, I I, don't know like what to think about like my first reaction is: is this not in any cluster, just like my gut feeling out of the bed so.

F

Yeah I was thinking without the cluster name. There I might think that perhaps it's still synchronizing and then at some point it will appear something but also finding a good name, uh yeah, not an easy choice, but something that you wouldn't use for a clustering, I guess.

A

uh Like what is that like? What is the name of the cluster uh that we add when we are talking to like external clusters, because, like what I'm seeing there? Is that, like the name of the cubeconfig file, or something like that, because the target closer there, it's a little bit strange, the name.

E

Yeah, we don't provide a.

F

E

You just provide your cubeconfig, so it would be the name of your Q, config and or you could I guess somehow parse it out, but I think in the current pull request. I can't remember how exactly that looks.

E

Yeah, we don't explicitly ask for a name. We just grab it from the cubeconfig.

D

C

A

The thing is, like I, do believe that cute config does have a key right on it, but you'd have to parse it like I I, don't know like I I, don't have like a strong opinion here like one way or another personally, I'd prefer to see something that doesn't say: cucumbers I'm like well.

A

That's not the name of the cute config file there, um because in because that, in that case, you'd have to have like a meaningful name on the config file and if I call it bananas and I'm connecting to prod two, it just becomes weird right.

A

So you need to be very like you need to know that that name that you're putting to that file is going to be shown later in a different place, but yeah as I'm saying this I'm convincing myself that it shouldn't be the name of the file but I'd like I'm, not gonna, be like yeah. You should find out. What's the name of the cluster.

E

Alrighty sounds good. Thank you. All for your input. I will uh relate on the pull request. I think it's fairly aligned with what I was thinking. So it's good to know. Thanks.

C

B

Right um thanks Neil for bringing that up and for everyone's input. So the next topic of discussion was update of description in Carvel slack Channel I, just updated.

F

Yeah. That's me: okay,.

B

F

I know this like by accident earlier yeah nice.

B

Yeah, whenever I saw that I was like huh what does it actually say because I haven't, you know, checked it and God knows how long um so. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

B

um I figured it would it wasn't because it only said I think it was like ytk build and cap and kwt is what it was listed as the tools and then like nothing else. Was there anything else you think that was missing in that description.

F

No, no just it was pointing to the old uh k for TNS websites.

C

Yeah, okay, yeah.

B

Awesome all right, thank you and any other topics that people want to bring up.

C

B

Okay, uh all right! Well, thank you all for joining today and thank you Joelle for uh being today's host in the beginning and.

B

um uh Thank you for having my back and and for those that are watching from home. I encourage you to come. Join us live. We meet every second and fourth Wednesday of the month at 8, A.M Pacific time. It's a good way for you to come and meet the maintainers. Bring up discussion, topics, ask questions, or you know just listen in. We would love to have you join us and with that have a good rest of your day or evening. Wherever You Are thanks.