►
From YouTube: Cloud Native (The Podlets, Ep 1)
Description
Today we share our vision for this podcast and explain the unique angle from which we will approach our conversations, a way that will hopefully illuminate some of the concepts we discuss in a much greater way. We also dive into our various experiences with open source, and define what the term “cloud native” means to each of us individually.
For the show notes and transcript: https://thepodlets.io/episodes/001-cloud-native/
Feedback and episode suggestions:
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A
C
A
D
My
name
is
Duffy
Cooley
I'm,
also
a
cloud
native
architect
at
VMware.
Also,
recently,
hep
do
and
core
OS
I've
been
working
in
technology.
It's
like
cloud
native
for
quite
a
few
years
now,
I
kind
of
started.
My
journey
moving
from
virtual
machines
into
containers
with
mezzos
I
spent
some
time
working
on
Rizzo's
and
and
actually
worked
with
a
team
of
really
smart
individuals
to
try
and
develop
an
API
in
front
of
that
crazy
missus
thing,
and
then
we
realized
well,
you
know
like.
Why
are
we
doing
this?
D
E
B
I've
been
Sree
DevOps
infrastructure.
For
about
a
decade
now,
I
used
to
live
in
Boulder,
Colorado
I
came
out
of
a
couple
startups.
There
I
worked
at
SolidFire.
We
went
into
net
app,
so
I
used
to
work
on
the
Linux
kernel
there.
Some
then
I
was
at
Deus
for
a
while
when
I
first
started
contributing
to
kubernetes,
we
got
bought
by
Microsoft
left
Microsoft.
The
azure
team
I
was
working
on
the
original
managed
kubernetes
there
lust
that
team
joined
up
with
hefty
o-mint.
All
of
these
fabulous
folks
and
I
think
they're,
like
wrote.
B
A
So
I
am
a
developer
and
have
always
been
a
developer
I
before
joining
helps.
You
I
was
working
for
fastly,
which
is
a
CDN
company
and
there's
doing
helping
them,
build
the
latest
generation
of
their
TLS
management
system
and
at
some
point
during
my
stay
there
Kevin
Stewart
was
posting
on
Twitter
join
help
too,
and
at
this
point
happy
was
about
I,
don't
know
between
six
months
in
a
year
olds
and
I
saw
those
tweets
go
by
and
like
yeah.
A
That
sounds
interesting,
but
I'm,
happy
we're
home
and
I
have
a
very
good
friend,
Bill
Kennedy.
Actually
you
saw
those
tweets,
and
here
he
kept
saying
to
me
you
should
apply.
You
should
apply
because
they
are
great
people.
They
did
great
things.
Company
is
so
hot
and
I'm,
like
I'm
I'm,
happy
where
I
am
so
so
eventually
I
contacted
Kevin
and
he
I
also
said
yeah.
That
would
be
a
perfect
match
and
two
months
later,
I
decided
to
apply
and,
and
the
people
are
amazing
and
I
did.
Thank
you.
Kubernetes
was
really
hard
money.
A
Decision-Making
went
towards
two
things.
People
are
amazing
and
some
people
who
are
working
there,
I
already
knew
from
previous
opportunities
and
some
of
the
people
that
I
knew
I
mean
I
loved
everyone,
and
the
only
thing
was
there
was
an
opportunity
for
me
to
work
with
open
source.
I
definitely
could
not
pass
that
up
and
I
could
not
be
happier
to
have
made
that
decision
and
now,
with
VMware
acquiring
you
have
to,
like
everybody
here,
I'm
a
few
more
and
still
happy
so.
C
Oh,
I
DC
tokens
for
authentication
that
functionality
that
dex
provides
is
probably
my
favorite
thing,
although,
if
I'm
going
to
be
truly
honest,
I
think
right
now
the
thing
that
I'm
the
most
excited
about
working
on
is
my
own
project,
which
is
starting
to
joint.
Like
me,
joining
into
my
interest
in
doing
chaos.
Engineering.
What
about
you
guys?
What's
it
for.
B
B
I
I
worked
on
FreeBSD
for
a
while,
and
that
was
like
my
first
welcome
to
open
source
and
I
mean
that
was
like
back
in
the
olden
days
of
IRC
clients
and
like
ready
and
see
and
I
had
a
lot
of
fun
and
so
I'm
really
close
with
a
lot
of
folks
in
the
freebsd
community.
So
that
always
kind
of
has
a
place
in
my
heart.
I
think
just
sounds
like
my
first
experience,
so
it's
like.
C
E
D
I
find
I've
worked
on
a
number
of
projects,
but
I
find
that
generally,
where
I
fit
into
the
ecosystem
is
basically
kind
of
helping
other
people
adopt
open-source
technologies.
So
I
spent
a
quite
a
bit
of
my
time,
kind
of
working
on
OpenStack
and
part
of
it.
I
spent
some
time
working
on
open,
V
switch
and
recently
in
kubernetes,
but
generally
speaking,
I
haven't
found
myself
to
be
much
of
a
contributor
to
of
code
to
those
projects
per
se.
D
But
more
like
more
like
my
work
is
just
enabling
people
to
adopt
those
technologies
because
I
understand
the
breadth
of
the
project.
More
than
kind
of
the
detail
of
some
particular
aspect.
Lately
I've
been
spending
more
I've,
been
spending
some
time
working
more
on
the
Signet
work
and
kind
of
sync
cluster
lifecycle
stuff.
A
Realize
it's
a
mission,
what
I'm
working
on
a
few
more-
and
that
is,
coincidentally,
the
project.
The
open
source
project,
that
is
my
favorites
I,
didn't
have
a
lot
of
experience
with
open
source,
just
minor
contribution,
see
in
there
before
this
project
and
so
I'm
working
with
Valero.
It's
a
disaster.
Recovery
tool
for
kubernetes,
like
I,
said
the
source
and
we
coming
up
for
two
version:
one
pretty
soon
and
the
other
one
signers
are
amazing.
Super
knowledgeable
and
very
experienced
mature,
so
I
have
such
a
joy
to
work
with
them.
My
favorites,
that's.
A
Be
glad
to
so,
the
idea
that
we
had
was
to
have
the
show
where
we
can
scarce
cloud
native
concepts
but
as
opposed
to
talking
about
particular
tools
particular
project.
We
are
going
to
aim
to
talk
about
the
concepts
themselves
and
approach
it
from
the
perspective
of
a
distributed
system
idea
or
issue
or
concept
or
a
cloud
native
concepts
and
from
there
we
can
talk
about.
A
What
really
is
this
problem?
What
kind
of
people
companies
have
this
problem
while
usually
are
the
solutions?
What
are
the
alternatives,
way
alternative
ways
to
solve
this
problem,
and
and
then
we
can
talk
about
tools
that
are
out
there,
that
people
can
use,
but
I
don't
think
there
is
a
show
that
there
approaches
things
from
this
angle
and
I'm
really
excited
about
bringing
this
to
the
community.
A
B
It's
it's
almost
like
TGI
K,
but
kind
of
turned
inside
out
or
like
flipped
around
where
TGI
K.
We
do
tools
first,
and
we
talk
about
like
what
exactly
is
this
tool
and
how
do
you
use
it,
but
I
think
this
one
we're
spinning
that
around
and
we're
saying:
no,
let's,
let's
take
a
broader
idea
and
then
let's
explore
all
the
different
possibilities
with
this
broader
idea,
yeah.
E
From
the
field
standpoint,
I
think
this
is
something
we
oftentimes
run
into
with
people
who
are
just
getting
started
with
larger
projects
like
kubernetes,
perhaps
or
anything,
really
where
a
lot
of
times
they
hear
something
like
the
word:
sto
come
out,
or
some
technology
and
oftentimes
the.
Why,
behind
it,
isn't
really
considered
upfront?
It's
just
this
tool
exists,
that's
being
talked
about.
A
C
It
and
that's
something
that
really
excites
me,
because
there
are
a
lot
of
these
concepts
that
I
talk
about
in
my
day
to
day
life,
but
some
of
them
I,
don't
actually
think
that
I
understand
pretty
well,
it's
kind
of
like
those
words
that
you've
heard
a
million
times,
so
you
know
how
to
use
them,
but
you
don't
actually
know
the
definition
of
them.
I'm.
A
Super
glad
to
hear
you
say
that,
mr.
because
as
a
developer
in
many,
not
not
a
system
not
having
assist
adamant
backgrounds,
of
course,
I
did
society
mean
things
as
a
developer,
but
not
like.
It
wasn't
might
say
today
thing
ever
when
they
started
working
with
the
kubernetes,
a
lot
of
things,
I
didn't
quite
grasp
and
that's
a
super
understatement
and
I
noticed
that
I
mean
I,
can
ask
questions.
No
problem.
A
I
will
dig
through
and
find
out
and
learn,
but
the
problem
is
that
I'll
talking
to
experts
a
lot
of
the
time
when
I,
when
people
I
think.
But
let
me
talk
about
myself
well
a
lot
of
time
with
that,
when
I
ask
a
question,
the
acts
first
jump
right
to
the.
How
now
what
is
this?
Oh,
this
is
how
you
do
it
I,
don't
know
what
this
is.
I
think
back
off
a
little
bit
right
back
up,
I,
don't
know
what
this
is,
why.
Why
is
this
doing
this
I
don't
know.
A
So
if
you
tell
me
the
how,
before
I
understand
what
that
even
is
I'm,
it
forgets.
That's
what's
gonna
happen.
It
means
great
you're
trying
to
make
an
effort
in
show
me
the
how
to
do
something,
but
if
I
don't
want
this
personal,
like
my
the
way,
I
learned
I
need
to
understand
the
how
first
so
that's
this
is
why
I'm
so
excited
about
this
show
it's
going
to
be
awesome.
Yeah,
yeah,.
D
I
agree:
this
is
definitely
one
of
the
things
that
I
said.
Excite
me
about
this
topic
as
well.
Is
that,
like
I
find
my
secret,
super
power
is
troubleshooting,
and
that
means
that
I
can
actually
understand
what
the
expected
relationships
between
things
should
do
right.
Rather
than
trying
to
figure
out
you
know,
and
without
really
digging
into
the
actual
problem
of
stuff
and
like
what
and
how
and
how
people
were
going
or
the
people
who
are
developing
the
code,
we're
trying
to
actually
solve
it
or
or
thought
about
it.
D
Let's
bring
up
all
the
questions
and
you
know
we
should
enable
our
audience
to
actually
ask
us
questions
somehow
and
get
to
a
place
where
we
can
get
as
many
perspectives
on
a
problem
as
we
can
such
that
we
can
really
kind
of
dig
into
the
detail
of
what
the
problem
is
before
we
ever
talk
about
how
to
solve
it.
That's
good
stuff,
yeah.
B
B
C
A
Yes,
yes,
all
of
that
yeah
having
an
issue
list
that
in
the
repo
that
people
can
just
add
comments
praises.
Thank
you.
Questions,
suggestions
for
four
concepts
to
talk
about,
say:
hey
I
have
no
clue
what
this
means.
Can
you
all
talk
and
yeah
we'll
talk
about
it
so
in
sweeter,
yes,
interact
with
us
on
Twitter
I
believe
our
Twitter
handle
is
that
cubelets?
A
A
D
And
the
other
thing
I
like
that,
we
do
in
TGI
K.
Is
this
hack
MD
thing,
although
I'm
trying
to
figure
out
like
how
we
could
really
make
that
work
for
us
in
a
show?
That's
recorded
every
week
like
this
one
and
I
think
maybe
what
we
could
do
is
have
it
so
that
when
people
can
listen
to
the
recording,
they
could
go
to
the
hack.
Md
document
put
questions
in
or
comments
around
things.
D
D
C
B
C
B
Sorry,
I
co-authored
a
book
called
cloud
native
infrastructure,
which
it
means
a
lot
of
things
to
a
lot
of
people.
It's
kind
of
one
of
those
umbrella
terms
like
DevOps,
like
you
kind
of
up
to
you
to
interpret
it,
but
I.
Think
in
the
past
couple
of
years
of
working
in
the
cloud
native
space
and
working
directly
with
the
CNCs
as
a
CNCs
ambassador
cloud
native
computing
foundation,
they're
like
the
open
source
nonprofit
folks
behind
this
term
cloud
native
I
think
the
best
definition
I've
been
able
to
come
up
with
is
when
you're
designing
software.
B
B
Structure
is
its
designing
software
that
manages
infrastructure
in
that
same
way
and
I
think
the
sort
of
underlying
theme
here
is
we're
no
longer
like
caddying
configurations,
disk
and
doing
like
system
D
restarts
now
we're
just
sending
you
know:
HTTP
API
requests
and
getting
messages
back.
Hopefully,
if
the
cloud
has
done
what
we
expected
to
do.
You
know
that
that
broadcast
some
sort
of
broader
change
and
as
software
engineers,
we
can
like
count
on
those
guarantees
to
designer
software
around.
B
But
I
really
think
that
you
need
to
understand
that
it's
starting
with
the
main
function,
first
and
completely
engineering
your
app
around
these
new
ideas
and
means
new
paradigms
and
not
necessarily
like
a
migration
of
an
on
cloud
native
app.
But
you
I
mean
you
technically
could
go
through
and
do
it
sure
we've
seen
a
lot
of
people,
do
it
but
I,
don't
think
that's
technically
cloud!
Natives,
that's
like
cloud
alien,
yeah,
I,
don't
know!
That's
just
my
pod
are.
D
A
It's
interesting
that
never
said
cloud
mentioned
cloud
alien
because
that
plays
into
the
way
I
would
describe
the
meaning
of
cloud
native
I
mean
what
it
is.
I
think
nobody
described
beautifully
and
it's
a
lot
of.
It
really
shows
her
know-how
for
me,
I.
If
I
have
to
describe
it,
I
will
just
parrot
things.
I
have
read
including
her
book,
but
what
it
means
to
me
what
it
means
really
is
I'm
going
to
use
a
metaphor
to
explain
what
it
means
to
me:
I
am
giving
my
accent,
obviously
not
an
American
born
and
foreigner.
A
So
but
it's,
but
although
I
do
speak,
English
pretty
well,
but
I'm,
not
native
English
is
not
my
native
tongue,
so
I
speak
English
really
well,
but
there
are
certain
hiccups
that
I'm
going
to
have
everyone's
know.
I
there
are
things
that
I'm
not
going
to
know
what
to
say.
Oh
it's
going
to
take
me
a
bit
long
to
remember
and
I
rarely
run
into
not
understanding
it
something
in
English,
but
it
happens
sometimes
and
that's
the
same
way.
The
cloud
native
application
in
my.
A
If
it's
not,
he
had
if
he
hasn't
been
built
to
run
on
on
cloud
native
platforms
and
systems,
you
can.
You
can
migrate
an
application
to
cognitive
environments,
but
it's
not
going
to
fuel
II
utilize,
the
environments
like
a
native
word,
so
that's
my
take
cloud
integrate.
Call.
The
immigrant
is
a
Nick
about
cloud,
alien
yeah.
What
did
cloud
native
alien
right,
yeah
on.
E
That
point
I'd
be
curious.
If
you
all
feel
like
there
is
need
to
discern
the
notion
of
like
cloud
native
infrastructure
or
platforms,
then
the
notion
of
cloud
native
apps
themselves
and
where
I'm
going
with
this,
it's
funny
hearing
kind
of
the
Greenfield
thing
and
kind
of
what
you
said,
our
car
Lisa
with
the
immigration.
E
If
you
will
a
notion
like
oftentimes,
you
see
these
very
like
cloud
native
platforms,
things
the
amount
of
kubernetes
or
even
maysa
or
whatever
it
might
be,
and
then
you
see
the
applications
themselves
and
some
people
are
using
these
platforms
that
are
cloud
native
to
be
kind
of
like
a
forcing
function
to
make
a
lot
of
their
legacy
stuff,
adopt
more
cloud
native
principles
right,
there's
kind
of
this
push
and
pull
it's
like
do.
I
make
my
app
more
cloud
native.
Do
I
make
my
infrastructure
more
cloud
native.
E
B
You
know,
guarantee
our
software
around
so
I
think
it's
a
little
bit
of
both
and
I
think
that
there
is
definitely
an
art
to
like
understanding.
Yes,
this
is
a
good
idea
to
do
both
applications
and
infrastructure
and
I.
Think
that's
where
you
get
into
this
sort
of
what
it
needs
to
be
a
combat
engineer,
and
it's
just
like.
In
the
same
traditional
legacy
infrastructure
stack
like
there's
going
to
be
good
engineering
choices.
You
can
make
and
there's
gonna
be
bad
ones
and
there's
many
different
schools
of
thought
over
do
I
go
minimalist.
A
B
Mean
I
think
going
back
to
the
green
code
thing
that
we
were
talking
about
earlier,
I,
think
if
you
are
lucky
enough
to
build
out
a
Greenfield
application,
you're
able
to
bake
in
Greenfield
infrastructure
management
instead
as
well,
and
that's
where
you
get
these
really
interesting.
Hybrid
applications
just
like
kubernetes
that
span
the
course
of
infrastructure
and
application
like
if
we
were
to
go
into
kubernetes
and
say
I
want.
B
You
know:
I
wanted
to
define
a
service
of
type
load
balancer,
it's
actually
gonna,
go
and
create
a
load
balancer
for
you
and
actually
mutate
that
underlying
infrastructure
and
the
only
way
we
were
able
to
get
that
power
and
get
that
paradigm
is
because
on
day
one,
you
said:
we're
gonna
do
that
at
software
engineers
you
know
taking
an
infrastructure
where
you
were
sort
of
hidden
behind
the
firewall
or
hidden
behind
the
load
balancer
in
the
past.
The
software
would
have
your
way
to
reason
about
it'll,
sort
of
blind
and
control.
C
C
So
they'll
use
something
along
the
lines
of
like
Hoshi
corpse
terraform
to
create
the
VMS
and
the
load
balancers
for
them,
and
it's
something
I
think
that
people
forget
about
is
that
the
application
themselves
can
ask
for
these
resources
as
well
like
terraform,
is
just
using
an
api,
and
your
code
can
use
an
api
to
the
same
api.
In
fact
and
I
think
that's
an
important
distinction.
C
C
B
A
D
D
I
was
gonna,
say
cloud
near
to
me
kind
of
breaks
down
into
it
into
a
different
set
of
topics
as
well.
It's
like
I,
remember
seeing
a
talk
by
Brandon
Phillips
a
few
years
ago
and
in
his
talk
he
was
describing.
He
had
some
numbers
up
on
the
screen
and
he
was
kind
of
talking
about
the
fact
that,
like
we
were
gonna
quickly
kind
of
become
overwhelmed
by
the
desire
to
continue
to
develop
and
put
out
more
applications
for
our
users.
D
His
point
was
that,
like
every
day,
there's
like
another
like
10,000
new
users
of
the
internet,
new
consumers
that
are
showing
up
on
the
internet
right
and
and
there
globally
I
think
it's
something
to
the
tune
of
about
350,000
of
the
people
in
this
room
right.
People
who
understand
the
infrastructure,
people
who
understand
how
you
know
how
to
interact
with
like
applications
or
to
build
them
those
sorts
of
things
that
really
aren't
a
lot
of
people
who
are
in
that
space
today,
right
we're
surrounded
by
them
all
the
time,
but
they
really
just
globally.
D
There
aren't
going
to
be
enough
people
on
the
planet
to
solve
that
problem
without
thinking
about
the
problem
in
a
fundamentally
different
way,
and
and
for
me,
that's
kind
of
like
where
the
cloud
native
piece
comes
in
so
this
with
that
comes
a
set
of
primitives
right
like
you
need
some
way
to
automate
or
to
write
software
that
will
manage
other
software.
You
need
the
ability
to
manage
the
lifecycle
of
that
software
and
in
a
in
a
resilient
way,
that
can
be
managed,
and
there
are
lots
of
platforms
out
there.
That
thought
about
this
problem.
D
Right
like
there
are
things
like
mezzos.
There
are
things
like
kubernetes
there's
a
number
of
different
shots
on
goal
here,
like
there
are
lots
of
things
that
I've
really
tried
to
think
about
that
problem
in
a
fundamentally
different
way,
but
I
think
that
those
primitives
that,
like
you,
know,
being
able
to
actually
manage
life,
the
lifecycle
of
software
being
able
to
think
about
packaging
that
software
in
such
a
way
that
it
can
be
truly
portable.
D
The
idea
that
you
have
some
API
abstraction
that
brings
again
that
portability
such
that
you
can
make
use
of
resources
that
may
not
be
hosted
on
your
infrastructure
on
your
own
personal
infrastructure,
but
also
in
the
cloud
like
how
do
we
actually
make
that
API
contract
so
complete
that
you
can
just
take
that
application
anywhere?
These
are
all
part
of
kind
of
that
that
cloud
native
definition
in.
B
A
D
A
B
Right
we
had
all
these
hardware
manufacturers
coming
out
and
building
all
these
different
hardware
components
with
different
interfaces,
and
somebody
said
hey.
You
know
what
there's
a
lot
of
noise
going
on
here.
We
should
standardize
these
and
build
a
contract
and
that
contract
then
implemented
control
loops,
just
like
in
kubernetes
and
in
ASOS
and
poof.
We
have
the
Linux
kernel
now
and
it's
like
we're
just
distributed.
Linux
kernel
version
2.0
and
the
human
race
is
here
repeating
itself
all
over
again.
Yep.
C
Yeah,
but
it
seems
like
the
kind
of
the
blast
radius
of
Linux
kernel.
2.0
is
significantly
higher
than
the
Linux
kernel
itself,
not
to
I
was
that
maybe
something
I
was
like
pooh-poohing.
What
you're
saying
was
like
it's
more
like
we're.
We're
learning
the
same
lesson,
but
at
a
grander
scale,
now
yeah.
B
C
C
So
it
makes
sense
that
your
opinion
informs
my
opinion,
but
something
that
I
think
that
we
were
just
arting
to
talk
about
a
little
bit
is
also
the
concept
of
stability,
cloud
native
applications
and
infrastructure
means
coding,
with
instability
in
mind,
it's
not
being
guaranteed
that
your
VM
will
live
like
live
forever,
because
it's
on
somebody
else's
hardware
right,
their
hardware
could
go
down
and
so
like.
What
do
you
do?
It
has
to
move
over
really
quickly
has
to
like
figure
out.
D
B
Think
we
see
this
in
kubernetes
a
lot
and
when
I
interviewed
Joe
couple
years
ago,
Joe
Beda
for
for
the
book
to
get
a
quote
from
him.
He
said
like
this
magic
phrase
that
has
stuck
with
me
over
the
past
few
years,
which
is
goal
seeking
behavior,
and
if
you
look
at
like
a
kubernetes
object,
they
all
use
this
concept
and
go
called
embedding
and
every
kubernetes
object
has
a
status
spec
and
all
it
is,
is
its
what's
actually
going
on
versus
what
did
I
tell
it?
C
D
C
B
Totally
is
because
I
mean
a
status
like
if
you
get
you
know.
If
you
have
one
potentiality
for
status,
your
controller
is
going
to
be
relatively
trivial,
but,
as
you
start
understanding
more
of
the
problems
that
you
can
see
and
your
code
starts
to
mature
and
harden
those
statuses
get
more
complex
and
you
get
more
edge
cases
and
your
code
matures
and
your
code
hardens,
and
then
we
can
take
that
and
globally.
In
these
larger
cloud
native
patterns,
it's
really
cool
yeah.
C
A
A
My
brain
is
in
its
infancy,
as
it
relates
to
kubernetes
I.
All
that
I
see
is
api's
all
the
way
down.
It's
just
API
is
all
the
way
down.
It's
not
very
different
than
as
a
developer
for
me
is
not
very
much
more
complex
than
developing
against
the
database
that
sits
behind,
but
ask
me
again
a
year
from
now
and
I
have
a
more
interesting
answer.
So.
B
A
I
understood
there
are
patterns
and
I
probably
should
be
more
cognizant
of
what
these
patterns
are.
Even
so,
if
it's
just
what
articulate
them.
But
to
me,
my
day-to-day
challenge
is
understanding
the
API
understanding
how
you
know
what
what
what
what
library
called.
Why
make
to
make
this
and
how
you
know
just
which
is
just
programming
101,
almost
not
different
from
any
other
regular
project,
yeah.
C
And
that
is
something
that's
kind
of
nice
about
programming
with
kubernetes
in
mind,
because
a
lot
of
times
you
can
use
the
source
code
as
documentation,
I
hate
to
say
that
particularly,
is
like
a
non
developer
like
I'm
I'm,
a
sysadmin
first
getting
into
development
and
documentation
is
key
in
my
mind,
but
there
I've,
there's
been
more
than
a
few
times
where
I'm
like
I
need.
How
do
I
do
this?
C
You
can
look
in
the
source
code
for
pretty
much
any
application
that
you're
using
that's
like
in
kubernetes
or
around
the
kubernetes
ecosystem
and
the
API
for
that
application.
Is
there
and
it'll
tell
you
what
you
need
to
do
right?
So
it's
like.
Oh,
this
is
how
you
format
your
config
file
got
it,
but.
A
At
the
same
time,
I
don't
want
to
minimize
that
knowing
what
the
parents
are
is
very
useful.
I
haven't
had
to
do
any
design
for
valera
for
our
projects.
Maybe
if
I
had
that,
we
have
to
be
forced
to
look
into
that
I'm
still
getting
to
know
the
codebase
and
you
know
developing
features,
but
no
major
design
that
I
had
to
leave
at
least
so
I
think
we
time
I.
A
B
C
E
Yeah,
so
I
haven't
really
been
as
close
to
the
CN
CF
as
I.
Probably
should
to
be
honest
with
you,
but
one
of
the
great
things
that
the
CN
CF
has
put
together
our
programmes
around
getting
projects
into
this
kind
of
I.
Don't
know
if
you
would
call
it
vendor-neutral
type
program.
Maybe
somebody
can
correct
me
on
that,
but
effectively,
there's
a
lot
of
different
categories
like
knit
networking
and
storage
and
runtimes
for
containers
and
things
of
that
nature
and
there's
a
really
cool
landscape
that
can
show
off
a
lot
of
these
different
technologies.
E
A
lot
of
the
categories
I'm
guessing
we'll
be
talking
about
on
this
podcast
to
write
things
like
what
does
it
mean
to
do
lot
of
Native,
networking
and
so
on
and
so
forth?
So
that's
kind
of
my
purview
of
the
CN
CF
and,
of
course
they
put
on
cube
con,
which
is
the
most
important
thing
to
me,
but
I'm
sure
someone
else
on
this
call
can
can
talk
deeper
at
an
organization
level,
what
they
do.
B
I'm
happy
to
jump
in
here,
I've
been
working
with
them
for
I.
Think
three
years
now
so
I
think.
First,
it's
important
to
know
that
they
are
a
subsidiary
of
the
Linux
Foundation,
so
the
Linux
Foundation
is
sort
of
you.
The
original
open
source
nonprofit
here
and
then
the
CN
CF
is
one
of
many
and
like
Apache
is
another
one
that
is
underneath
the
broader
Linux,
Foundation
umbrella
and
I.
B
Think
the
whole
point
of
or
the
CNCs
is
to
sort
of
be
this
neutral
party
that
can
help
us
as
we
as
we
start
to
grow
and
mature
the
ecosystem.
Obviously,
money
is
going
to
be
involved
here.
Obviously,
companies
are
gonna,
be
looking
out
for
their
best
interest
and
it
makes
sense
to
have
somebody
sort
of
managing
the
software
that
is
sort
of
outside
or
external
of
these
revenue
driven
companies
and
that's
where
I
think
the
CNC
F
was
sort
of
comes
into
play
and
I.
Think
that's
like
its
main
responsibility.
B
Is
you
know
what
happens
when
somebody
from
company
a
and
somebody
from
Company
B
disagree
with
the
direction
that
the
software
should
go?
They
CNCs
can
come
in
and
say:
hey,
you
know
what,
let's,
let's
find
a
happy
medium,
let's
find
a
solution
that
works
for
both
folks
and
let's
try
to
do
this.
The
best
man
and
I
think
a
lot
of
this
came
from
lessons.
We
learned
the
hard
way
with
Linux,
so
in
a
weird
way
we
kind
of
did.
C
B
B
It
hasn't
been
around
for
a
very
long
time
and
you
look
at
the
history
of
kubernetes
and
you
know
we
used
to
have
this
debate
process
that
has
since
been
retired
and
we've
tried
a
lot
of
solutions
and
the
CN
CF
has
been
pretty
instrumental
and
guiding
the
shape
of
how
we're
going
to
manage
solve
governance
for
such
a
monolithic
project
as
kubernetes
grows
like
the
problem,
space
grows
and
more
people
get
involved,
so
we're
having
to
come
up
with
new
ways
of
managing
that
and
I.
Think
that's.
B
C
A
My
perspective
of
the
CNC
F
is
from
from
participating
in
the
kubernetes
meetup
here
in
San,
Diego
and
I
am
trying
to
revive
our
meetup.
It's
just
really
hard
to
do,
but
different
different
topic.
I
and
I
know
that
they
may
they
try
to
make
it
easier
for
people
to
find
meetups
because
they
have
on
mera
kaam.
They
have
an
organization,
I,
don't
know
what
the
proper
name
is,
but
if
you
go
there
and
you
put
your
zip
code,
you'll
find
any
made-up
that's
associated
with
them.
A
So
my
my
made-up
here
in
San,
Diego
is
associated,
can
be
easily
found.
I
know
they
give
they
try
to
give
a
little
bit
of
money
for
swags
way
to
give
give
out.
Let's
warm
it
up,
they
try.
They
offer
help
for
finding
speakers
and
they
also
have
a
speaker
catalog
on
their
website,
and
so
they
try
to
help
in
those
ways
which
I
think
is
helpful,
very
valuable.
Yeah.
D
Think
it's
been
really
good,
seeing
sort
of
what
it
means
to
provide
governance
over
a
project
and
I
I.
Think
that
really
highlights
that's
really
highlighted
by
the
way
that
kubernetes,
Elfa
kubernetes
itself
is
managed.
I.
Think
a
lot
of
us
on
the
call
have
probably
worked
with
OpenStack
and
kind
of
remember
some
of
the
crazy
battles
that
went
went
on
between
vendors,
around
particular
components
in
that
stack
and
seeing
and
I've,
yet
to
actually
really
kind
of
see
that
level
of
of
noise
creep
into
the
into
the
kubernetes
situation
and
I.
D
D
Networking
should
be
a
project
that
you
develop
as
a
company,
and
you
can
make
the
very
best
one
that
you
can
make
and
you
can
attract
as
many
customers
to
that
as
you
want,
but
fundamentally
like
the
way
that
you
the
way
that
you,
your
your
interface
to
that
major
project,
should
be
something
that
is
obstructed
in
such
a
way
that
you
know
it.
Isn't
it
isn't
owned
by
any
one
company
yeah
contract.
E
Into
that
point
of
e
I
think
what's
interesting
is
more
and
more
companies
are
looking
to
the
CNC
F
to
determine
what
they're
gonna
place
their
bets
on
from
a
technology
perspective
or
because
they've
been
so
burned
historically
from
some
project
owned
by
one
vendor,
and
they
don't
really
know
where
it's
gonna
end
up
and
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
So
it's
really
become
a
very
serious
thing.
When
people
consider
the
technologies,
they're
gonna
bet
their
business
on
yeah.
A
D
What
a
project
is
absorbed
into
the
CNC
effort
donated
to
the
CNC
f
I,
guess
there
are
a
number
of
projects
that
this
has
happened
to.
Obviously,
if
you,
if
you
see
that
eye
chart,
that
is
to
see
and
see
if
landscape
there's
just
tons
of
things
happening
inside
up
there,
it's
a
really
interesting
process,
but
I.
Think
that,
like
from
my
part,
I,
remember
recently
seeing
assisting
falco
to
show
up
in
that
in
that
list
and
seeing
them
donating
Cystic,
donate
falco
to
the
C&C.
D
F
was
probably
one
of
the
first
times
that
I've
actually
kind
of
like
really
tried
to
see
what
happens
when
that
happens,
and
I
think
that
some
of
the
deed
stuff
here
that
happens
is
that
now
this
is
an
open-source
project
and
it's
under
the
governance
of
the
CNCs
and
it
it.
It
feels
to
me
more
like
an
approachable
project
right
I,
don't
feel
like
I
have
to
deal
with
cystic
directly
to
interact
with
falco
or
to
contribute
to
it.
D
B
Has
the
CNCs
had
to
come
and
step
in
we've
been
able
to
sort
of
operate
independently
of
that
and
I
think,
because
the
CNCs
is
even
there.
We
all
sort
of
are
under
this
working
agreement
of
we're.
Gonna,
take
everybody's
concerns
into
consideration
and
we're
going
to
take
everybody
to
use
pieces
in
the
consideration
work
together.
So
I
think
it's
just
even
having
that
in
place,
whether
or
not
you
oi.
D
You
know,
because
part
of
the
charter
of
CN
CF
is
to
promote
the
project
right
and
I'm,
always
curious
to
see
I'm
kind
of
fascinated
to
see
how
this
plays
out.
As
we
see
projects
that
are
normally
competitive
with
one
another
under
the
auspice
of
the
same
organization
like
a
CNC
F.
How
do
they
play
this
in
such
a
way
that
they
remain
neutral?
Even
you
know
it
would.
It
seems
like
it
would
take
a
lot
of
intention.
You
know
yeah.
B
Well,
there's
a
difference
between
just
being
like
a
CNC,
a
project
and
being
like
an
official
project
or
a
graduated
project
like
there's
different
tiers,
for
instance,
cubic
or
in
a
tool
that
I
wrote.
We
just
adopted
the
CNC
F,
like
I,
think
Code
of
Conduct,
and
there
was
another
file
I
had
to
include
in
the
repo
and
poof
or
magically
seen
SIA
now,
so
it's
it's
kind
of
easy
to
get
on
board
and
once
you're
on
board.
B
B
A
B
I
mean
there's,
there's
more
to
it
than
that,
but
yeah
I
mean
I.
Think,
and
this
is
somebody
may
like
that
I
remember,
seeing
an
open
source
like
my
entire
career,
open
source
comes
with
this
sort
of
implication
of
you
need
to
be
well-rounded
and
polite
and
listen
and
be
able
to
take
other
just
thoughts
and
concerns
into
consideration
and
I.
Think
we
just
are
getting
used
to
working
like
that.
As
an
engineering
industry.
C
Agreed
yeah,
which
is
a
great
point:
it's
something
that
I
hadn't
really
thought
of
like
the
kind
of
the
idea
of
development.
Back
in
the
day
it
seems
like
before
there
was
such
a
thing
as
like
the
CNC
have
really
cloud
native.
It
seemed
like
things
were
kind
of
combative,
or
you
know
people
would
just
like
trying
to
push
their
agenda
as
much
as
possible
kind
of
bully
their
way
through,
and
that
doesn't
seem
like
that
happens
as
much
anymore.
What
do
you
guys
have
any
thoughts
on
that
I.
D
Think
if
these
things
are
very
true
like
if
you
look
at
a
lot
of
like
kind
of
like
the
big
successful
closed
source
projects,
they
they
kind
of,
have
they
they
the
way
that
you
know
people
in
this
room
and
people.
Maybe
people
listening
to
this
podcast
might
perceive
them.
It's
definitely
just
fundamentally
differently
than
that.