W3C Multicast Community Group, 7 Sep 2022

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From YouTube: 2022-09-07 Monthly Multicast W3C Community Group Meeting

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2022-09-07 Monthly Multicast W3C Community Group Meeting
notes here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DoQc49twZk9OZeTJEryI1ZBRAkXIy4Nud6lxgaRMb4E
meeting series here: : https://github.com/w3c/multicast-cg/tree/main/meetings

A

Okay, recording's on uh thanks everyone, and, um let's see so just to go through our agenda and we'll try and keep it quick, because some people are shorting are leaving uh on the early side.

A

uh I would say our AIO quick implementation is coming along.

A

um We have some multi multicast packets being sent I currently have them doing some kind of encryption uh and I'm working on making something that will um decrypt them and receive them in response to the joins, so I have it sending an ounce frames and join frames, but not yet the actual keyframes, which I'll need to to add into that that allow the decryption um I think after that comes uh basically um once we've got it processing the the encrypted packets.

A

Then we have the Integrity frames, the uh the acting and the the feedback with the retransmits and basically flow control and rate control. Then we'd have a functional something that kind of does what it needs to.

A

um Roughly speaking, um that's just the quick layer. This is not any kind of browser integration at this stage uh and we're we're talking about keeping that in AO quick uh for now, at least um and probably doing some kind of uh like I feel like our first demo would be a a sort of fat client, video player um that can run externally, probably even before we do any any sort of H3 integration is my current feeling. Anybody, wanna I, don't know dispute that or discuss it, but.

A

Think that's where we're at approximately on the AIO quick.

B

A

And I have done a fair bit of work. uh Enrique has been uh looking at it and working on some of the readme stuff. uh I think Kyle has been pretty busy since we made that switch so far, but um I haven't heard from Leo I think he started his new uh uh job and maybe maybe got busy um internship job.

A

Okay, but I can't remember what he was doing next, but yeah I miss him, but uh uh his uh he hasn't been around for the last uh month and a half for it. So um anyway, uh anything else we should add to the io AO, quick implementation, part.

B

No I figured, could you log out a bit and you can kind of read: I'm gonna change the implementation of collect the q log viewer a bit, so you can actually actually just place the frames and stuff properly but and then working and yeah.

A

Okay, cool yeah um coming along, not super functional yet, but getting some of the bits and pieces together um and I feel like the main blocker at least on my side would be just putting the time in to actually make it go.

A

um There's a bunch of spec work to do too I think we've got what 30 open issues or something 33, or so we got a great review from Martin Duke um and I really should respond, but that's uh all kind of beside the point a little bit uh anyway. I guess that would lead into uh next week. I will be at TPAC, so there will be another uh I've proposed. A breakout session.

A

I haven't received a confirmed schedule yet, but I'll send out um an invite to that meeting uh that will be remote, enabled uh via Zoom I guess is what they, what they usually set up.

C

What is what is that?.

A

Tpac is the uh it's sort of they. They only do it once a year for uh w3c, but it's a big in-person uh convention kind of a meeting like like any of the ietfs, but for w3c. Instead.

C

What does TPAC stand for that might give me.

A

Technical all right, it.

B

Sends that yeah Technical plenary and an advisory committee? Oh.

C

Okay, so it's it's it's the w3c part of it is assumed. Yes, okay,.

A

Yes, if you just look up TPAC, then w3cs is maybe like the third hit. There's.

C

A few of them if I looked up, TPAC I'll, probably end up with you know. You probably meant Tupac that too.

A

Yeah but um no there's a there's a couple other.

C

A

That are named TPAC, but uh but no the w3c TPAC. uh It's a convention. It's in Vancouver this year, so I get to stay in the same time zone, which is great for me personally, not necessarily for everyone.

C

I was really looking forward to that Vancouver ietf, the one that got canceled, oh yeah,.

A

But uh nonetheless, um uh so I'll be there. Next week, I have um proposed the breakout session not yet been assigned to schedule uh not yet been confirmed that it will be on the schedule, but uh but they weren't totally full. Yet um they had I, think I was number 41 and 42.

A

or 41 of uh of 60 possible slots. um So I I do hope to have a slot.

B

um I think that should be fine I'm, slightly worried that they're running a lot in parallel that, like there are four there are like four time slots and 15 sessions per time slot. Yes,.

A

Yep, uh so we will be competing with not fewer than 10 other breakout sessions, I think um for attention.

A

um So I you can ask to not conflict with something, but I'm, not sure if you can ask to go up against a particular Suite anyway, um the uh I'm not sure I'm, not sure, even how I would gain that if I were going to try um anyway I'm hoping that uh that I can get perhaps 10 of the attention. That's there, though, um and get some interested people to drop in uh and maybe get some new eyeballs on the on the idea.

B

Yeah, if you've got certain people in mind, it may be worse um kind of contacting them directly to let them know. um If you go to the TPAC website and sign in, you should be able to see a list of like everybody, who's everybody who's registered to be there. Oh.

A

Really, okay I will do that.

A

um Let's see okay great uh list of everybody.

A

Oh yeah, that is right, so there is a there's. Actually a tpac.org, which is not this. That is uh that's about a spectacular new season of Broadway and Nashville is about to begin get your tickets.

A

um So teethack.org is the first several hits, but then then you have a w3c w3.org uh set of of links. um If you're signed in you can see. Who will be there.

B

A

B

It's under registration, yeah there's. Let me find a link.

A

So there's the detailed agenda with the breakout sessions.

B

B

Okay, got it There's the link.

A

Fantastic. Thank you. I.

B

A

That, when I was uh digging through.

A

I thought I was signed in because I signed in earlier today, but it wanted me to sign in again. Maybe that's why the link wasn't even there. Okay, I'll look through that and see. If there's anybody.

A

Everybody else is like already been collecting registrations for the for the slots. I guess that's what you get if you're more on the.

B

A

B

Just people signing up to the groups that they're interested in yep so yeah. That's that's what everybody's kind of chosen for themselves to to look at, but the breakouts like it's assumed that everybody like is free for the breakout times.

B

um So there aren't really there's, maybe one or two conflicting meetings, but not not much really.

A

Oh just the other breakouts, mainly yeah yeah, um okay, cool I will uh I will that is so. The breakouts were on.

A

The breakouts are all on Wednesday. Is that right.

B

A

Okay, so I'll have two days to sort of uh see: if there's any particular people I can induce to attend the session. Also, that would be. uh That would be good fits um I. I think at this point.

A

What I'm looking for is people who understand the privacy concerns posed by, uh like the the you know, Apple recently put in um some sort of uh local network uh permission that gets flagged whenever you do something um so anything that that tries to reach a DOT local address, I think anything that uh that wants to do uh any kind of mdns um capability which a few things have Discovery for mdns, Stuff I think uh there might have been another couple of things in there um like some of the second screen people might have have heard of some of that.

A

I know. We've talked to some of them before I, don't know if they ever did anything with the Privacy discussion.

A

uh The Privacy questions I raised with them last time, I talked to them as a group, but I'll, hopefully get a chance to see some of them in person and find other people who might have a clue on that kind of thing um just to to see. If there's, if anybody can identify anything else, that's like that's coming up as a privacy concern or a security concern about um about I.

A

Guess the general category like we can follow Apple's Leadership here in some sense the the uh you know, the general property that we're looking at here is that uh some new information is exposed to the local network, and this is potentially requiring some level of permission uh to do that and uh and the permissions can sort of fit into the more or less normal scheme of permissions.

A

uh You know they've lumped a bunch of things together. As a single sort of uh you know, this app is permitted to to get local network accesses appropriate for that, um and so there's a bunch of things that go together and then they can turn it off if anybody abuses that right, um I, don't know how that Maps into websites that are permitted to do it through a browser, but uh maybe I can find people who have some thoughts on.

B

A

um But I think that's if I can find out like what the API looks like for that for the browser integration, then that seems, like probably a part of it like getting some consensus that we could plug into that, for this kind of a use case would be appropriate, I, think um and then or like finding out what the issues are. If anybody can identify any issues with it,.

A

And then like, if there's any concerns about what the API would look like like, um if anybody thinks the default on, for example, would be a problem like that seems like a way to get to get more benefit without necessarily having to uh to change anything.

A

um But if you had the capability to deploy this in a browser with uh with default on, uh you know how bad a problem would that be. In light of uh of the potential to.

A

You know expose the new information that we're seeing in the I guess the.

C

A

Thing is, it might expose the content that you're consuming to further Upstream things. So maybe this is a I think. There's some discussion to have about that like what would be the pros and cons of of doing uh default on versus default off uh with an enable API to turn on the quick capability, assuming we can ever get it into any browsers, um but just general discussion on what the path to browser adoption would have to look like if we can get there.

A

If I can get any better feedback on that from uh from browser people um I, don't really know who's going to be there uh or how much overlap there is with ietf. This is part of my Discovery mission in going.

B

I was just going to have a quick look at the um the list of people to see if there's any names that I, recognize or or any groups that are kind of related like there is a privacy there's, a privacy interest group that reviews um kind of web specifications for privacy considerations.

B

There may be kind of protocol type people in webrtc or in web transport groups yeah. That may be worth approaching. I'm just going to have a quick look now scan through the list and see if any names, that kind of jump out.

A

Yeah much less plugged into this community than to the iotf community. So far, um yeah I know Chris lemon's done it I wonder how many uh seeing or seeing a Comcast on there is a small surprise, see yeah I, don't know who I'll be uh aiming for.

A

I guess the other thing is: if I can interest anybody in joining our mission to make it happen, that would be great, too uh I'm sure everybody who's. There has a lot of things on their plate.

A

Is the networking interest group.

B

A

I I feel like we had a sorry.

B

I think that group is meeting.

A

Yeah weather networks is uh on the Tuesday first thing in the morning. It looks like.

B

A

I think I'm signed up for going to that so yeah yeah I'll see who I can hook up with there. That's before the breakout. So that's helpful. um Web transport is after the breakouts. Actually, no that's also on Tuesday, actually I. Think I'm also signed up for that one.

A

um Let's see if I can.

B

A

In there uh web performance, I guess that's a little bit different, mostly.

B

um Yeah, actually, that could be yeah. That could be good.

A

Well, webrtc is probably a better fit for finding protocol people well.

B

A

Is going to be more page rendering stuff, it is.

A

Okay, yeah I did look through these and I. Think I picked the best fits to find people that are there but yeah I'll, be uh you know, stalking uh the right potential uh contributors as as best I, can identify them and trying to get them to consider coming in um so yeah. That's that's roughly my plan, um not stalking I'll, be you know, trying to build Bridges and establish common cause.

A

um Yeah Martin Thompson.

C

If I can get a chance to talk.

A

To him Thompson, that's certainly uh I, don't know that he really wants to talk to me about it, but.

C

Yeah, hopefully we'll get a you'll get a better reception from him than at SEC dispatch.

A

A

Yeah I mean he uh at some point. He might tell me to go away, but he hasn't told me to go away yet so we'll see, I know he's very busy too he's uh you know.

A

Yes, Firefox has a lot going on um and quick too so yeah. uh But um yes, that is a name I recognize um I did speak to him a little bit at ITF already, actually um just got that he hasn't yet taking a look at our better draft and uh and the uh web transport is implemented, but not yet integrated as of a month ago, in Firefox, which is a little bit interesting and I.

A

Think it's actually maybe worth noting that uh I would be very willing, as the first browser implementation to look more closely at Firefox like I was originally thinking. Chrome has more chromium, has more uh reachable market share and that still might be a consideration, but on the other hand, um I think the uh there's a good chance that the rust-based uh extension model for Firefox would be easier to get rolling.

A

So in much the same kind of argument as AIO quick is easier to work with, it might actually be smarter and better to to take a look at putting it in Firefox instead and then leave the keys extension to like once. We've got actual buy-in that this is worthwhile.

A

C

There's a there's, an additional argument to be made that uh that this could be a differentiator for Firefox um yeah and something that you know could at least at the beginning, get them some additional market shares that they've been bleeding for several years. That's.

A

Right, especially.

C

If it's being pushed by, if it's being pushed by um by uh uh access, Networks.

A

Yeah, okay, sure, that's a good point. There was some interest from um I got a query from uh from a couple of people so yeah that there are some questions about like if a uh uh if an mfp that was running their own TV service wanted to run this, then what would that kind of look like right? So I? Don't think this all has to be public. uh You know public web that can be that can reach anywhere.

A

um You know, I think there's like the the people running TV services if they could run them from browser-based things. uh That would be a big Advantage for them too right.

A

So we may have some common cause with the with any kind of network operators that could be looking in that direction um and that actually would be another really helpful way to get into uh some of the TVs some of the smart TVs um as we get closer to that, but yeah, it's I, I think my main goal is to get a handle on what TPAC looks like and understand how to best use it next year, um but I think there are some useful side goals that are about like get.

A

Some engagement get some feedback as best I can, while I'm there um lead a leader breakout session, so yeah the suggestion to to get in a breakout session very good one. uh I I put my proposal up and, and hopefully it will uh be in that running, um I was pretty slow, so I'm glad that they uh are taking proposals. This late.

B

Yeah I think it's just a first come first served so if they've put 60 slots up, then I think you're. Fine, all right um great.

A

Will you be there Chris I.

B

Will I'll be there all week, yeah excellent yeah.

A

um Yeah I also signed up for our week, uh I'm, not so targeted. Yet I want to get a lot of uh connections.

B

A

As best I can in there so yeah um all right, maybe we'll maybe we'll find time for a lunch or a dinner or something get together. Beer, whatever.

B

That would be really nice, yeah I think will already reached out to me about something like that. Something.

C

B

A

uh All right cool: well, we will I will see you, then that's great um okay, anything else we should go over while we're here today we have a favor.

A

Okay, then I think we should just call it early and to get back to work.

A

All right, well, thanks! Everyone for coming and uh I will stop the recording.