XAF XAFers Community Standup, 9 Jul 2020

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From YouTube: XAFers Community Standup - July 9th 2020 - Best Practices

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https://xafmarin.com/xafers-community-standup-best-practices/

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Relevant answers in the chat:

Where to put my business logic?
The answer about where to put business logic really depends on a situation. In most cases Controllers (with helpers) is really a good way to handle it. It is also possible to write logic in setters if you are careful. It is also possible to write dangerous code inside business classes or Controllers if you do not think about the architecture, how XAF works, how your code is executed.

Performance:
https://www.devexpress.com/Support/Center/Question/Details/T148978/how-to-measure-and-improve-the-application-s-performance

We should not forget about the database itself. Even databases need maintenance. Here is a good article on how to improve health of your database: https://supportcenter.devexpress.com/ticket/details/t572322/database-maintenance-recommendations-for-applications-created-or-used-with-xpo-or-XAF (especially if you do not have a dedicated DBA).

Blazor :
XAF's Blazor UI relies on IQueryable + our grids + a smart data access library, so it is Server mode by default. It does not matter how many records you are loading into ListView.

Accelerate your learning path:
In addition to reading tickets, I would also add that reading the XAF source code will help a lot with learning. We also try to collect the most interesting tickets in our blog every month: https://community.devexpress.com/blogs/xaf/archive/2020/07/02/expressapp-framework-tips-and-tricks-june-2020.aspx

Join us the second Thursday of every month for our community standup covering everything that is going on with XAF, XPO, Blazor and more. There is no agenda, no formality, no dress code required, let's just talk about what we love and share our experiences

A

Okay, I believe your life welcome everyone to another, a suffered community, a stand up. We meet the second Thursday of every month to discuss about South, XPO and personal projects. Experience and everything that we want to talk about. We are taking event by the community and for the community, and we are glad to have you all here. I will start sharing my screen.

A

So the first thing that I wanna start our meetup with is we have been. We are part now of they don't need foundation built or user group. So please, a visit, darling Friday! You can find big to loser group happening all around the globe. Everything especially see a focus on donate and there are a lot of nice events there. So please take a look, go there and find some event that you will enjoy and a pain thrown there DC. This will be and sorry let me show the post. This will be our agenda today.

A

We're gonna do a quick introductions. Pretty much everybody should know the expression. Bpd fan, Jose, Manuel, I, guess he'll have emergency today and I. Don't think that he would be joining us. Hopefully he will back in the meantime we're going to do a quick introduction. Then we have some couple and a swing and a few demos and then we're gonna go directly to the topic of today. That is talking about best practices, how we use or sell fabrication what we have seen in all of us developing and stuff.

A

As always, I encourage everyone to join our Facebook group. We are already for 85 members. Let's make it 500, let make it 1,000 right here we can be schools, we can post all questions. We got a system from other members say as a community we're stronger together, he I know. Facebook is not for everyone. There are a few papers that doesn't like to be on Facebook and that's understandable. We also are in linking so we have the developer South a group of linking join their fellow South on Twitter, or we also have forbidden.

A

So you can also in a chat way as your question. So your your your experience and let me try to hide this panel. That is in the middle of the way right here, a subscribe to suffer quickly. We try to collect all the links happening in the week about South and sang a weekly image, so you have a weekly remain weekly collection of everything that is happening. You in the South world we started also awesome, stuff and I will really appreciate the contribution as the community. Here it will be.

A

A repository is based on not some place or Amazon summary, where we're gonna have everything related to South everything that is important. We have here the documentation to express the demos we have here, the blog post from our MVPs. We have all podcasts and this Oliver Stone when does a really nice, a old post and buries exactly in the 2007 when stuff was just starting. So this I highly recommend. So you know the story of this Fingal that we like a love. We have the book of Martin Fowler of paranor enterprise application, architectural.

A

This is the book that actually XP or was based on. They follow all the best practice they've, so highly recommended I'm pretty lying. There are more courses, Community Links, a if you need consulting. If you need jobs, if you wanna do too and I want to break this down, I want to pull localization. These are the links from localization I want to a DevOps links from develops and everything else.

A

We can make this repository as comprehensive as possible and before going any food, that I will allow a I will, one day from yama-chan and Jose to introduce itself. Most probably everybody know who they are. But if you are new and you are joining us for the first time- please pay for motion. We want to start these.

B

You Tony sounds good. Thank you. Yeah Dave from lana chant technology are up here in Canada, using xaf since its release in the end of 2007, using DevExpress little bit before that. Thank you for bringing our website up. We have code snippets. We have a free framework, kind of add-on available check it out. We also do consulting and some training on the side and some custom developments so need anything feel free to reach him.

C

Great so well, I guess my turn. My name is Khoa. Everyone knows me by watching actually was my childhood, nickname and well. What we do in bit frameworks is the way we develop frameworks for whatever platform it is so wonderful products is a synchronization framework for XP or when you can synchronize data between databases and they don't even have to be the same type of data. Is you know the power of XP? Oh, so, basically, what we have also is.

C

We do custom development and training, Enterprise training, so I guess most of the people around here have seen like some of my articles. So well, if you have any doubts or you want to talk about shafts, we offer a free support. You can see the link and it can you like move the mouse over the link, it's like really obvious, but yeah. So if you want to make consulting with us, you can go there and schedule it. We will talk about Ukraine.

A

So moving forward.

A

Is another thing, but this is his blog I? Had it off my note, he is developing a new testing framework. Take a look, it looked. He seems really interesting and as he say, he want to make unique tasting. Tustin tasting I, don't know how to pronounce that I think. So that sounds pretty interesting. In a couple notes, there expressed a release, a new documentation for unit tests anticipate, so they really put the time to organize and make it more discoverable. So please take a look and suffer training as well.

A

Has two new courses on own testing a course Felicia tastes and a course for unit tests. So if you're interested in that please take a look, is its? If you have several applications deployed, you'd cannot afford to not test your application from there. We are going to move I wanna I wanted to show something quickly. We have our awesome. The facebook group allowed our CI system for Denise a community stand up. I want to show quickly that if we go here and from here we start seeing.

A

We are going to talk best practices, this focus and we have the question from Genesis about setting up multiple roles and filter in role based data will get to that. We have a game and talking about a using surface about angel stuff, we talked about the last one and we have xqf Lansing. That host was talking about so, as you see we're trying to cover it, everything was asked so again get involved in the community. There is a power of into air and everything that is. A square triangle pays to accommodate that and disgusting.

A

So the last question in there is about the expand framework so how to use the Spanish language and 60 Pro year. The first thing that I want to add about that and I put a hearing day in the post is Apostoli join your facebook group, so you guys feel free through asking any question. You want bar egg, my in my series of videos about the modules of the week I'm going to cover the expand later in the future.

A

So at some point we're going to get to this I'm gonna review all expand framework model, so stay tuned for that, and in that same note, I wanna do a quick, I know that everybody here is in English base, but I want to make a quick moment to be thankful for the Spanish community I. They have reached out to me and they are actually helping me to translate some of the sophomore you'll be from English to Spanish, so we're going to fill the gap of a flourishing Spanish as well.

A

We want to make stuff know only we want to make it worldwide so again. Thank you. I just want to say that for just a second I'm really excited about that, I also excited about the people have reach out about the community, stand up we're doing this for the community and by the community. So with that out of the way a Jose, are we able to do the XP of line same demo, or you were having some issues? You will.

C

You know that you know how it is the demo effect. My computer just died like 10 minutes ago and my husband died and it was a solid estate right I mean I've been carrying it with me life for five years, so we just turned off and is there I'm using another computer, but at least I want to show the flow so I might not be able to run the unit test. To show you how it works.

C

I know that some people here in day I see they people who is there in the mirror, and some of them are using it already so for them will be easier to understand, but in any case I will show the presentation and then I guess I will post a video on my youtube channel, maybe later today with the technical demo. So let me share my screen and.

A

Before before how I started showing the screen, I wanna say something: every questions: don't don't be tied post. Any questions feel free to leave it on the child. We're gonna get to all the questions at some point they made up. So please, let us know if you have any doubt of what we're talking about. We would like we want to. We execute it as possible, so horse I'm, going to stop sharing and I will give you.

C

Okay, so you need to allow me sure I cannot share at the moment. Yeah there's a second.

C

Done okay, so, let's see, let me know what you can see my screen.

C

I can okay perfect. So basically, we've been working like for a long time. Actually they was origionally like we talked about this like six years ago. I don't know how long time was, but basically a lot of people come to to us and reach us because they want to do offline synchronization.

C

Basically, what they want to have is they want to have an office that is disconnected from the main server they want. What they want to do is basically.

C

Work all day and then synchronize the data at night. Somehow so, let's see oh good, not even the PowerPoint is here so I think you know I, you know how it is like I prepare, the name or I went to sleep. Everything was fine, then you turn on the computer and this is gone so color. Let's see.

C

The beauty of onedrive.

B

Requirement was actually requested by one of our clients, like I, said six years ago, who had xaf being used on a local server out on in fishing vessels. Yeah.

C

I guess we know I mean I, know if you're talking about Mike, yes,.

B

C

Well, it was because of him that this all started I did like 20 or 50 implementations of synchronization and then I realize it was impossible to do it. If you do it based on your business logic, if you're doing basically on zero data, so basically we decide that there is a better way to do it. We reach the top of the implementation like two or three years ago, with a year when we did an implementation for tracking drugs, so all of them were offline totally, they would use.

C

In summary, they will use in summary locally and they they do the synchronization whenever they have connection. So basically, these are the status of your covenant with me hi these.

C

So these are listen. I use they the first one- and this is the first one that we created is that you have a master date erase wherever in a Tobias or your own cell belongs on your desktop. So basically you have your server. There will debate is leaving, and then you have clients in this case their clients are mobile. That's basically summary summary in forms.

C

So what they do have is that each database is striking the operations that is happening so in case, something that is code, the deltas, which is the difference between the main database and the under client. They claim database so when he is done by the end of the day or whatever time you want, you just send those latest to the cerebral and when you get those left us in this airbed you process them and all the changes will happen like as they happen in the server. So actually the code is release input.

C

The implementation is like fine lines, so this is the immobilization. This is so much talk about the scenario that are good to know like in synchronization, the only time where the source of truth is complete, where all the data is complete is when all the clients have processed all the deltas, so everyone will be a copy of the master. At the moment, everyone have the same type of beta, then.

C

No one should write directly to the master I mean even that in in production. Well, you know that okay, the master is just another client, so we have not only spend time Oh.

C

And we leave it as openness, you can do it because we learned that everyone have their own technique or their own business story, but they want to put it into the synchronization. So in that sense like we have a really open framework, whether you can do this position whenever you want. Actually so, let's go to the next case, and then we will see a little bit of code. I would not run it because I don't have what the reference is in this computer and I was able to compile it on time. Yeah.

A

When I hold you to the video later on, yeah.

C

Yeah, so basically, this is the over the very scenario that is in this case. You don't want to synchronize mobile applications. You want to synchronize the complete office, so here you have office a an office B and you have all the clients in the office. So all of these writing data to be celibate to be celibate that they have locally in the office by XP over API, for example, although UCS. So whenever those clients are right into the database, we're creating the deltas also, so then you send the deltas to the server.

C

That's it! Then you do all the synchronization flow and let me show you the implementation, which is imported. That is where I'm most proud of. Is that implement a synchronization a well? You know you know more than anyone Korean it's like thousands of lines. If you want to do it by your business logic, but if you want to do it, my data's, it's like quite simple. So let me go over here.

C

Usually, when we taste this framework wait with our customers, what we do is we give them a copy of the demo solution, I mean of the main source code, and here we have the test, because if there is something that opposed to lease Dainius and everyone is pushing is like you have to test your code, you need to be able to replicate your code and make sure that we put your even to the client is stable and will then communicate a new version that it would actually run, and you can prove it because you have the test right.

C

So in here we have the.

C

They did this tortoise, so basically, what we do is we create a special connection, string that will allow XP or to touch the the difference between databases. So in this class this is what we give to all the customers is like. Okay, if you want to test how they provide that is working well, you just run the unit test and you will see all the metals that are necessary or important for the for the framework to work. Then we have some little Scotty integration tests.

C

This is like more interesting because I will just guide you to the flow which is like nice. So first you create some services. You will use those services internally, not a big deal, just a new variable.

C

Then you create two collection estates. In this case, cnx alcm HP represents different offices or different devices. So then you create a datastore for s 4a and 4b. Once you have the datastore, you set up the data layer to do this. You go here to definition, and this is basically the updated code. It will create the schema ha and so on so on so on, but the most interesting part here is that if you see this code you can, since you have access to the datastore, you can enable and disable tracking of your operations.

C

So that means that even though you're synchronizing data, you can turn it off at any moment, and after that you will like a stop self saving deltas for what is that? Sometimes you don't want to replicate. The creation of the data is the initial data that you're putting in the in the in the little.

C

If you don't want to replicate, also or sometimes you have like any process like let's say you are a bank or a financial institution and by the end of the day you want to calculate the interest of each loan that you might not need to know. You don't want to know the letters of how you did it, so you can turn it off at any time. So, let's go back so once you have done that once you have the data layers on here, we have like a really simple code.

C

We create a unit of work with the data layer, a which represents device a or office a, and then we create two records, and then we commit the changes. Then we do the same with the office PE or device B you need to forth, and then we create two records. Then we commit the changes again. So both places how to records and those records are different.

C

So then, what you need to do is that we need to go and as the data layer a and a little aap give you your dentist, give me the difference between you and the main database. Then you basically do send it to the server the cellular process them. And then you ask again to the data layers. Tell me, which was the last difference that you processed from the server and I, asked both a and B.

C

So basically they will go, get what they don't have so after that you just after you get the dentist from the server to just process them and then basically all database at this moment after this life are completely synchronized. So here, if we do their self, you will see that in every connection in the main server or the master and database a and B all of them will have four records actually because they cross each other, the values.

C

So just to finish, because since I cannot throw the call, it's very difficult to show how it works, I will just show how they, how do you implement the serpent on the server side?

C

Basically, we follow the design pattern of asp.net core, so we create services extensions. So here, if you have used a speed ultimate core, you get these metals computer services. So in here we have some boilerplate code to delete the day erase and make sure that everything is key, but basically the only line that we need to amend to our offline synchronization to your application is this line, and it's really easy. You just either knew it that we give you an extension with the distinction. Do our experience, services of line data?

C

Sync, sorry that will include it in the in the services that asp.net code is running and you just need to pass to connection with things one for actually the data and the second one is for the deltas for the difference between databases.

C

After that I mean this is the only line that you need. Everything else is boilerplate code and how come is there that I will explain those in the idea that we look for the YouTube channel? Those are just safeguard that you should run to make sure that your schema is created. Everything is clean, but basically in a normal application. You would just need to add this. Let say.

A

We have a questions about the same framework. Is what happen if you have our incrementing keys? Well,.

C

If you have out incremental kids, you can still replicate them as long as you how a class that handles that actually I was talking with 100 or interest. His name is andres. He do a lot of questions all the time, but really cool guy.

C

He asked me about the alphanumeric, because everyone wants to do impose one with two equals three and they actually use an integer key for that. So, if you are using the integral keys or alphanumeric is XPO, do you have an examples over there, like 10 years old example, even older than that, where they do where they create a sequence server using XPO, so they don't depend on the database, make a nice to generate the last plus one.

C

So if you want to use the same framework- and you want to have integral piece- basically, you just need to implement the sequence number generator that XPO present on that example, and it will work because everything will be even the numbers will be generated on the next few away. So we will go in the replication.

C

Actually we do how new it is still not in your open-source framework, but we will polish its own I. Think that do that that generates the the next integer key and hardens the locking system and so on. So since a lot of people is using integrity, somehow I guess that would be a nice addition for the same framework. So everyone can make it work because usually the base design pattern for these is to use. O ID is like with type of kids, because those don't depend on the data is to be replicated.

C

You just create a new based on type, so it's possible. You need to do so arranges yourself, but it's not like a lot of code, maybe like two classes and a few lines, and you can use integer keys in general.

C

I, don't recommend it, but if you have to use it is that you just need to make sure that the numbers are generated correctly and that's if you do your own test, only paste or integration test, and after that I think that we will absolutely work fine exactly so just to finish after you are the services to the asp.net core application. You just need to create one controller. So, basically, here we have the same controller. This in controller should inherit from scene controller base, and you will have to have a special constructor, which is this.

C

The ID will force you to implement the custard and then basically that's implement this, and we will just be working and I put this code here and is an overwrite. So you can understand that you can override those methods, but they don't need to be overridden so basically to implement the controller to make this synchronization. You just need to make something like this. It's basically like I will say like two lines this and this and that's it.

C

Synchronization will be working so it's kind of magical if you've been doing synchronizations based on your business logic, you I, guess you should have a lot of code to handle that and the structure to handle the time a lot of stuff. So it's not sustainable and it's not easy to replicate. They will never use create an employee. You need to tame your own synchronization code, based on your own logic. Again, in this case is generic.

C

This will work for basically every self application or exterior application that you have done and also we include another example in the example is basically the implementation of this controller. So is an implementation paid by hand, so you don't have it from a special controller.

C

You just write the code that is needed, so in here you can see the implementation again is less than a hundred lines, counting the empty lines in the middle, so it's like maybe like 25 lights, so still like really really easy, and just before I finish, because this is basically what I wanted to show in the last mirror. I show XP over API, so we have a question from wonderful custom. Well, there is one person who is evaluating the same framework who asked if what will happen because his solution is based on wucf.

C

So when you have WCF and then you have web api, then you will have a mix of paper of network PvP WCF is their own B's quite complicated, sometimes, and then you have where API, which is more simple. So even though that is not public and well it's fully, but there is no documentation for that. We do have a framework to communicate with the salable to invoke remote methods.

C

So if you were doing that, you see notice, yet you will be able to do that, not using next few over API, but one of the part of the same framework that is called network data transfer, but you can implement it in different protocols in what was the name of the protocol for or.

C

For Google the implement protocol for something like that which, as I say your PC exactly, we can do it through Web API. So there are like several Network protocols that we can handle. Actually, so we're like a mini WCF replacement I mean you can communicate the stop using web api, but then you can use it all those other protocols at least three or four cotton balls. That is nice, because it's a modern way that you can include dotnet code in your application.

C

You can use Windows Mac OS, whatever you want and you can decide which protocol you want to communicate your experimentation with your data, a server you can use DHCP WebSockets with API, so you name it. We have included a lot of flavors that so in general, like I, will make an example, maybe later next week about something like that, because we haven't in termini use it a lot and we spend a lot of time developing dial, because I know that client-server communication needs to be secure and available.

C

So I guess I will put it on the note for the next I have a few videos or I have a few videos in my computer, I didn't publish, but who knows this my this is going to recover so.

A

Also, we have another question when the chat about yeah the possibility to limit the data that you sent to the client. They say that the client might not need or dallara that isn't a master is.

C

Possible also, we don't at the moment we don't have access to the deltas. I mean there is no happy. There is no middle that do that, but for the customers, who already have these framework working when they get it, they get it with the complete source code. So doing a modification like that is not like super difficult. We can point if the customer, okay, you should go and take this variable. I mean this variable would be the changes that to these, so you can analyze them and clean them as you want or edit them.

C

It's not part of the framework, because we don't believe that it's a core part of the framework, but since they have the source code, they can do it quite easily. I will say that in other lines we also have support for the encryption. So yes also there's another beauty of this is that when you save the Delta, you can encrypt a scramble it in any way that you want. So you will have even a stronger layer of security in the transmission of the code.

C

They did the data and the deltas and also in the storage of the data, so even for mobiles we have a special SQLite, for example, if someone is using XP or on summary forms or reducing summary in general, we do have a special experiment that will.

C

Cipher the database in the mobile, so it will not be readable for persons who connect if they don't have encryption key, so we can make it risa cure. Even in like iPhones Android devices, so yeah we can include, we can. We can include another layer of security. We ciphering on the kitchen.

A

All right so hey Jose. We are going to hold you to that video later on this week. So definitely you have to put something there and a couple more comments about the what we always talking about as we have suffered weekly. So we can send the relevant information about the week that is happening, the suffix P, oh it's! There is also the web assembly witty and one of the issues this week was the RPC in place of webassembly. So I recommend everyone to take a look at that article is really nice and it's another.

A

It's another way to transfer data, so we are going to add here. Pc, 2 or XP or YP I played it on the features so from their own hosting. If you can stop sure enjoy, I can share my screen, then we'll go from there I'm pleased everybody again, as always, I encourage everyone to keep asking questions to keep being involved. Let me share my screen for just a second and we will from there.

A

So this was the moment that we were going to do some tasty demo about the tasty framework that Manuel is developing, but we're gonna skip that because he's not here I'm, pretty sure he will make a video. He will do it in the next Meetup. So we're gonna jump straight to the questions of best practices and the first one will be and we have in our suffers training. We get this question a lot like, especially for beginners. They are like what do I put my business.

A

Doing, should I put it on the seller of the property, should I put it on the controller. We don't change ways approach. What is it like most of the time beginners they like a recipe of going forward and for all that we have been developing itself for a long time like anywhere anybody jump if I wanna say like Devraj it, which would you say, will be your your god. Ok.

C

I will start with this, so basically, then, is always put like a lot of emphasis on this is like the object should be on charge, takes few it's old, getting and setting the data. That's it. You should have minimum business logic in the in the class, but that's not always possible, and you know it I mean. Sometimes you just need to do. You need price per quantity and something like that, something that easy you can do it, but I will think about. It is my logic.

C

If my logic requires additional data, loaded I will not put it in the class. I will put it maybe in a cluster drop that class, but I will not put it in there because you are right making they they can last five more dirtier and then you're tearing stuff, and you don't want the most complicated about event basis stuff. Is that most of the time they will three? Well, you don't want them to trigger so everything you like yeah use your chain changes and changed I.

C

Don't you don't do it as much unless you have to show the calculation on the screen like price per quantity step?

C

Is this example: I usually do everything like in a budget based manner, so they say that we have a list and this view of a boy says so all of them will implement I process, an interface like created to make sure that this process and then I will have an action that should be enabled or disabled, depending on that, the state and I will clear the logic in the sometimes, in the view, controller or in a helper class, depending on that, but I try to avoid in general events for threonine logic.

C

So I would say that if this is more put it in the business object index field object, if he's bigger, maybe put it in the Emperor class, and actually here I want to highlight something. If you're writing the code in the handler of the action, let's say that you have a simple actually net controller and you double click already, and you start writing gold. That is exactly the same as opening a Windows forum drag in Bhutan or a simple Bhutan from developer. Express I am creating the handler.

C

So in the end you is that you're writing your your pieces. Connect directly DUI so for me, is better to have ultra classes. So you can you need you need test them data without the need of instance it in a self application. So that's my advice to where to put the business logic. I can just last anxiety this, because we did this a lot if it is more on the business object.

C

If something like him here, I will create a helper class, so I can unit test it and I don't have to create a view controller to to run the tests. That's my advice: if you've.

B

Turned yeah, absolutely I'd, say I'm a little more guilty of putting some logic into our setters as long as it affects the current business object, and it's not a it's, not something that should be handled with the controller necessarily so as long as you're checking that it's not saving and not loading, you can have some assumption can you're making an assumption that it is being set kind of at the UI level, not always the case button. We do a little bit of that.

B

What I see a lot of from our clients is is that overuse of the on changed method? And we get these on change methods that are massive you're. Talking like a couple thousand lines of code where they trying to do something special inside the business object itself, and then we get the call saying: hey, I'm, getting all reference exceptions, I'm getting you know, weird behavior, yeah, you're, you're, doing things the wrong time and in the wrong place. So you know the more you can move to a controller, the better.

B

Absolutely if there are things that just make sense, like you said, you're trying to pick at a unit price, we're capturing historical data based on the violets selected. You know we typically do some of that in our in our setters, even though it's not necessarily the best practice. We we do have success with it, so we've kind of stuck with that bad habit over the years, so that's kind of where, where we're at I said controllers can can handle everything else.

B

You need because at that point, you're not worried about whether or not you're running a a custom piece of code on that business object. That's unrelated to your application. You only to occur in your application. That's what the controllers make sense. You are inside your application, that's where you want the business logic to flow.

C

Yeah, and also we were talking about these like yesterday, one of these days- we talk about this all the time in general, but there is something that I would like to have an excu and I. Have it there I just have not have the time to finish it is that I would like the XP or tics or have a heavily based object, like the custom object to be reactive, so I can tell like I just want the last event from all these change of events.

C

I don't want to tree and all the time where they don't change happen. So the reactivity should have some really deep stuff that including demo stuff will be recognized. I think that apostolis have something like that, but I have not take a route to it, and actually we would like to implement it myself. So I can I kind of freely understand it, but I have it on my plans that I want to create a new bit. We're really base XP row object and base object for self.

C

That is reactive, so I can handle, like the stream of events like I just want the last time that they click over this or the last one change from the 50-inch a silver trigger.

C

Only at that moment, I want to trigger Milotic, so the active stage will have some neat stuff and if we can include them in XP or in general, I think it will be an amazing tool.

A

What I like about reactive extension, is like a think about a vest, a automatic, a steadying it, but anyway, like there, are people coming up coming up or coming down coming down. Whatever you are standing up, you can say, like I, just won when someone with a green teacher shows up just let me know I, don't care about anybody much anybody else. So that's a great notification that you get and you only react to those specific events. Oh and that's a nice approach, but coming back to our current a questions.

A

Definitely it does vary and I agree with Dave like you have to hum to south and Lansing. They don't change. 3 factorial code like we need to follow solid. We need to have single responsibility. That's too much dust. If you get that amount of a code, you to start thinking your design, but again like when I started, working with surf the company that I was working was everything all the business classes. There was not no controller. That was nothing, and that was crazy. That was not maintainable. That was not testable. That was so again.

A

Hey, I agree with both. So I'm not gonna start with the second question: if you let second question is about the database, schema updates and the DVD updated and do I really need.

A

So honestly, in my experience, the first time that I use daily be updated was when I made hosting I never used the revealed data before in my life I had now we got I have other tools from a structure: synchronization I used to use module info only and what I used to do is synchronize the structure of the database with a with a with a very waste electron, from visual studio with the clients, databases and then I copy the model in for her a script.

A

Just for that, so I never husband need to use the DB updated. So when I made Xhosa, he was using big data for everything. So I was saying: why do I need that if I have this but I'm gonna get that the last part when we got to DevOps the DB of day today start getting really nice, you start getting a nice tool that we can integrate on your pipeline, so possibly when I expand that yeah.

C

So basically was I have a lot to fight in a little more about that in my home country, because we did a lot of government projects there. So they have this idea that when you develop an application, you have the users. Then you have this guy. Who is the the operation administrative person or something like that?

C

So he should be the guy who the application on the web celibate or in the share folder, where Windows phones are going to load it, and actually he is the one on charge to do a query to the database to do the initial data to be the first use data to create the first scroll and so on so I took that. Well, that should not be human. A person should not do that. An application should be self-contained.

C

When you run it when you start it, you want to have the first user, you don't want to go and do a query in the database and do that and you need to make sure that the schema changes and will happen automatically. So that's the purpose of the TB of data.

C

It will actually is like the automatic updates would be turned off, because if you see the code on a self application, you will see that is asking if he's on on the book mode, from the update that if he spoke on the boat motor neuron it so that makes it safe. You run it during the development time, but you to run it on release.

C

So once your own release, you want to make sure yourselves that you clear difference value to create or update the schema and to create the initial data, so I taught that all of that should be self-contained, because, let's think about this, you buy a software an ERP and you have the installed application. You run a stutter when they start finish. You want to create your database and you want to create your first user and your fans role and for me, the automatic way to do that is to include in the updater and just basically.

C

Execute your vector after they are finished, so you will have the database as your initial data, so I kind of like that in I've been to a lot of problems in a communal server, because we we have wonderful customers that they were using Oracle and they have mixes architectures. So the computers 464 beads they climb for the was 32 bits. So the updated went crazy because it is starting at 64 big spread, but these two axes are 32 bits other than net providers, so it went crazy.

C

We recombine it and so on and actually kind of like the metal. So much data I've been doing a lot of deploy in demos lately. So the next video that we're going to release our about deploying laser application start place. Replications on needles and I wanted to pull the ticket yesterday, but I went to sleep like 4:00 a.m. in the morning, because I was like big serie about the demo that I wanted to do today. So I realized that there is no updated for Linux I, guess no one use it.

C

I mean no one uses a one for Windows, so I don't know. If they're even going to release one for Linux but I would like to be able to do sudo and then write on paper and try, the coffee, fine I mean go to the config file and you start updated at the moment where I do for Linux deployments. Is that I committed out those lines in the application, so Dennis I think you're here?

C

If you're listening to this, we want an updated tool for leaders or a script or whatever so I can afford to do with myself. Oh these a lot of work and I I really busy lately. So if you can put that in the DevExpress tools, it would be nice, so Korean, yeah, I, guess we're with today. I.

A

Was mute for a second before I pass this question to today.

A

So we have another answer on the chat about the first question about the business logic and it's pretty much that the business logic really depends on the situation. In most cases, controls will helpers. It's a really good way to handle it, maybe so suppose it to write logic in the Senate. If you are really careful, you know, if you, you also have to always keep in mind. They're slowing, is saving and all those flats, but a gray.

A

Then your score is a business master control. It can be a disaster for testing and for the architecture, is how soft work and how you call this a security. So just want to reiterate that back then he stood on the Chad and if then, is there a no-pressure old? But if, at any point you wanna turn your camera and speak, that's up to you so hey Dave. Did we updated yeah.

B

So I actually has this question on the facebook group about a month ago, because we, we typically don't touch it on our on our stuff. We normally have our applications automatically update and we stick with the module info approach.

B

I, don't know if it's just old habit, because that's how we started back, you know back when xaf is released, but we found it. It works very well with the exception of releasing both a WinForms and and web application at the same time where, if you do a rebuilding between they compete for that module info. So in those cases where we do support both platforms, we typically have the windows. Application automatically do the update for us and then the web application is just at the mercy of the Windows application.

B

If it doesn't match, then the read you know, the release as a whole was not was not successful. So you know they're far and few between issues when we do have that happen where there is a mismatch, but you know it has a release cycle. It works quite well for us, I am I. Am I'm excited to hear that you are using the DB updater tool through the DevOps process, so I'm excited to see how that how that works out in the long run, because I think that may be a a better long-term solution.

A

Just to expand a little bit in that I, don't know if you guys have seen, and probably you guys because I don't know you guys. Battery support ticket is my every day trading breakfast moments I every day go through all the new tickets and I have learned a lot. Scientists are doing that it has become a habit of myself, so they really updated. New DVD is a really cheap as a new authority.

A

I think that from bass young 18.2, something like that, so nice right all right. So let's close this and come back in a second.

A

So, okay, let's continue best practice on data representation, and this is a big one about when to use in Pokemon persisting how to avoid necessary data loading, and that's one of the thing that we get that asked a lot about performance like- or at least you is- doesn't have too many regulars and is taking a lot of time to load or please view so.

A

If you think about this stuff, a is for mailing buried filled with that I have known and but abstract a lot of things for the new available for the beginning, and we always said if you have to go and take a new Windows Phones I, do all the queries by hand during abuse of the data lowing, you wouldn't do 300 relationship and you will in load in both those customers da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

A

You wouldn't do that because you will have to do all the square it manually, so you have to think on the design and you have to think on the architecture, and you have to think do. I need to be loading all of this data just to show a list view just to show if the power goes to show so where I want to start feel free to jump.

C

On that, okay, I guess we'll start with this, because we've been doing this also in the office lately like especially this year- is that this is like every time that we meet with a customer, they say or application is a slow thought is slow and I can prove the opposite. I can prove that is really fast. It depends on how you design it. We spend a lot of time in the office thinking about the design. Since writing. Code for us is like kind of easy at the moment.

C

I would say: we've been doing dotnet since 2002, so it's 18 years already, so to define a persistent class. It's not that difficult. It's just a matter of seconds. If you use code rows for exam which I use all the time, I cannot even write anything, not even my name without coderush. So the thing is that since itself is so easy to create or an xpo in general, the database structure that you want to create you just within a few lines.

C

If you want to add a mean property, just a new line, and so on is fully really easy. I think that most people should spend time doing no testing well, I will create my own, find them classes for my main application and I will load 1 million records and see how it works, see where is like a slow and which relationships are loading. If you do that at the beginning, because you have time you don't have to I noticed so far.

C

Tone from you're ready spend some time in your own web design, and they will take greatly in the future, and I can tell these like with confidence because the beginning of the year, we are designing an internal gear system in our company. In with frameworks, we do data loading with I think that five hundred thousand records and is losing one second, something like that.

C

So when someone tells me like stuff is low, it's not you need to take your design and take a look to it because, as have yourself in South and xpo, and most of the our aims is so easy to have use of the lazy loading that you can load. All your data is, if you want in just one line, so lazy loading is really neat, but it's a double-edged sword I mean it's real easy to use, but since it's so easy you will abuse it.

C

So I will say that the first thing that you need to do is pay attention to your design, and then it will work greatly and also. The second thing is that, if you're you're trying to represent some data, that is too complex to be represented, basically you just create a view in your database with whatever Casey query you have.

C

There is a lot of people who can do really complex queries. We have I mean all boy in Italy's, wonderful customers, so the people from work were the people who were there in the database klaudia, for example, he can do a mixie amazing, complex queries with good performance that will join like five objects. So the easiest way to do it.

C

If you were loading these two complex, you just create a queue in your database to make sure that is running fine and then you might pick two unknown persistent object and then there are like hundreds of example on how to open up with persistent objects. So that's the second thing it is too complex, go to of you, big mean details, view and map it to a cocoa object and they show it himself. So those are my two cents in here Dave, you don't.

B

Client recently trying to calculate inventory levels and same issue, the the massive quantity of data they're, trying to con certain calculations on we managed to solve through a view that we then just look up the the value based on that OID. No way we go so that on performance side that works very, very well in terms of the options and data in general. You know. In the past we were doing a lot of domain objects.

B

We have back pedaled on that now it looks like dem. Express is also recommending alternative methods to that I believe and Dennis. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but you know we we like to mark our our full business objects of non persistent. Instead, that way, you get the the benefits of still bringing in persistent data as needed.

B

You can. You can work with it as if it's a persistent object but then not commit any of it to the database. So we stick to you know we stick to those base objects as much as we can performance. Wise I mean you, you kind of nail it.

B

You know you, you do have the opportunity to be a little bit lazy and because of that you suffer, you need to put some thought into your design right if you're, if you're, storing a large, a large amount of data, you know in a blob field, consider moving that to a separate object right.

B

So you you only need to load like consider the header information that when you actually need the content, you can grab that later on as a separate lookup, if you're doing complex calculations, are you gonna do it on the loaded data on the loaded collections? Are you gonna run a calculated field? Oh, a persistent, alias or are you gonna use a view? Those are all really heavy considerations that you, you really need to get right from day.

B

One in order for things to be, you know to behave well, and we always say that you know good design is, is the key to any successful application right, not so much on the UI end, but on the on the data end. So if you're, if you don't take the time to figure out how you want your your business objects to to work and behave, you're gonna suffer down the road when you've written a bunch of controllers and and customizations. On top of that, just.

A

To expand a little bit on top of that, there is a episode on the a support cast about that axis from Jeffrey, Palermo and thing, and he's talking about alright or atoms in general, he's talking about into the framework into different with core and one of the rare among of that axis than he did on everything, and they asked him hey. What do you think about lazy loading and he tried a way say: don't do it? I would not do lazy loading that confuse beginners.

A

That makes then half the error of n plus 1 on the query. They have the error and I. Don't agree with that so yeah soon, because for beginners take a RM extract, a loader and helps you may feel classes to your stable. It give you a lot of actually I use, explore everything, and now that X boa Singh med, core I, will put on a fridge later on. Like also say all the time we could put it any way, but you do have to know how things are working by under the hood.

A

Didn't don't have to be aware of the data loading you do have to be mindful of what you're doing, and if do it this, when you have a costume and that one everything, but also one you're, a listview to be blazing fast, just standing, yeah just put the price up just okay, because you want every property on the column chooser. You want to have all your property that is going to slow down thing, slow yourself to the sign for your business need. Do you really need this? If you don't need it, don't load it?

A

If you don't need this, and there are a lot of things, I remember when stuff started with the dad of you. We had a list view that it was like two or three minutes and we got it down like 10 seconds. Just just to change to that of. You are the only change that we have to do after that.

A

It because we don't have the current market just go on, get final, yeah read the Koran, go, get that's it and we could do all the Russians exactly the same, and the biggest example I think we have a customer in Spain that they have like 65,000 cravers and the least view was like four or five minutes and we get it down like four seconds, but we have to do its own trade-off. It's like you, don't need this.

A

If you don't need this part in your life, don't bring it no, but maybe sometimes one user maybe will need it know if he will need at least put an action someplace else that he can click and we can bring the data he needs please to another design, and everything was great. Everything was happy. 90% of everyone was having some time now and then someone asking hey I need this data. There is no dead and we provided to them.

A

So it's thinking about performance, not about making lines of code and put it there and half everything, because I believe won't think that stuff is really good, but I believe that I want in I believe that for the bottom, my heart is that sometimes we leave to most to the customer. So sometimes we have to dial down instead of like because then you have to support everything so.

C

Actually it's time with Manu and that there should be like a light skinned mode where there is only one save actually well, you don't have like save shame and close, because the first question that you get from the customer is like: why do I have three sales? What does it mean? Even though it's obvious, because the label said I mean you have to support that? Sometimes they want to express to PDF. Do they have like 10,000 options and it's like? Can you explain me? Each of those no I mean easier for me.

C

It would be like this easier, like we have like any user documentation from DevExpress, so we don't have to do it on. Quite we have to drive how they agreed export. The data I mean they do haven't for the technical person, but not for the end-user. So we can just leave like take these, create yourself because otherwise you're in charge of that, the more you have they wouldn't have support. So it's more difficult I mean especially few small soap, and most of us are like 4 3 5.

C

Programmers I mean you can be like 10 parameters is even worse is.

A

You're being a position that people ask you, what is this Chrisette view settings and why sit there and why do I need it? And why, like it's, a really nice tool but sometimes like, if they don't need to I'm super.

C

That is over, functional I will say like, and that is good. That is good because that's what you want, but you need to be able to actually narrow it down, and we talked about this I. Think all of our meetings is that most of the time I spend more time hiding the functionality then creating functionality. The functionality is already done is I mean they did an amazing job, so I just need to highlight to I to say so, I think that's a.

A

And that's a great strategy because then, when the customers required that functionality, you just turn around and.

C

Do nothing I mean they can say like hey? Have you had a boot on that I can say on clothes at the same time? Is there early? Was they were closed? You just enable it and you do have to put a baby in it. I showed.

A

Me the model for this actual. Let me come back to the chart real, quick and before I. Go to that I want to say something. We have been fluctuating from 19 participants to 25, to 26 and down again and going back. I just need a new people. I want to thank everybody for showing up. I know that you guys can watch the YouTube video later on, but I really appreciate you guys being here with us. No agenda no dress code. Having a build just conversation, putting a questions I'd really enjoy this.

A

This is great for me. So there is a question when the charge that's what I was going to start with, that those anyone has tested big data loads on staff placer and Jacek heap and replies, say: I taste about three million records and works great, so hey Jay, I, hope, you're talking about blazer, but that's really promising and then down below. Then he sees a expanding on that inside blazer you, life, realizing iqueryable or grids losses. Mother Isis literally saw inside Shelburne mode by default, the Blazer you sell by mode by default.

A

So it doesn't not matter how many triggers you are going to the ListView I. Don't know you guys, but for me that's music to my hair. Look I'm glad that that I cannot piss off now, because I would.

B

Go ahead to say it's it's one thing when a framework, you know potentially slows you down. That's that's not the case here when you're doing things like searches on large data. That's when you're gonna hit more of a roadblock, more so from like the sequel, server side or from the database engine side. Where, if you don't have things like the large text, optimization enabled it's gonna sit there and chew away on large data fields for quite a while, and that's where your slow down kind of hits a hiccup.

B

So I'm really glad to hear that you know I'm on the blazer UI side, all these optimizations that are available through the platform through the framework are being taken advantage of. So that's that's really awesome to hear. I'm.

A

Bc say I get excited for every little feature that blazer, that south tips, but with this blazer when it was coming up jose and I, and we did take some phones with the test on computer and the file attachment. The pictures was still not working and like two three weeks ago, we tested again- and you can attach the picture- you can get it from your camera- you can get it from the gallery, does I can do so many application or another I can think of. We just that feature that that's amazing again having.

C

I'm going to like it dropped here is like regarding that, because I guess everyone is excited about the topic. Remember that at the moment we're doing a lot of research and development in your office because we're doing deployments in Linux a lot of deployment in the route 216 actually is the best I test. All of them I tell all the Linux so now, I think that we will have a training course for that that how you should deploy a place or application on Windows using before hosting.

C

So we want to show how you can host multiple applications in multiple domains in Reno's. Those can be suffocation, places of actually.

C

How you can use visual hosting bachchi and how we can use mr. hosted with nginx, so we have that almost dawn and ready all the tests are working so also remember that we want to show them the way it are loaded on Linux and show like okay. We have 30 gigabytes of RAM. This make. This is flow, see.

A

Where it crashes, as we want to say how many memory is the Postgres database, taking how many memories the MySQL, how many memory, how much resource is taking this, so we actually preparing for this Meetup and because, like manuals, say even if is not here that the demo gods sometimes are not helping us. We wanted to show two days in the South flash or running in Linux bar again. He didn't work out. We know we do have two implementations like we didn't.

C

Have enough time to put it there and make sure that it becomes for the level? But next time we will have.

A

The video and I want to also add Zdenek say that was fun was on what they say. We should not forget about the database itself. Database need maintenance and believe me, that's a big thing that he has by me few times because I'm not for any means a database administrator I do my best, but you do have to give some love to your database, so they can start running smoothly and he actually other link about database optimization.

A

That's often three, you guys to go there and take a look, but definitely definitely I'm having a database guy focus on your application. It's a really be a big plus for the.

C

Year, yep I will have something here, because this is a person that we got a lot and history which engine is best for me.

C

Anyone use SQL, Server Express, that's quite common and MySQL and I think those are the most users are missing. No experience in Latin America all use MySQL as.

A

You know that you remember the issue that I personally had with one of my customers about SQL Express. We were using the audit trail and we max out that Angela and we completely stop middle operation middle of the day of a point-of-sale Easter. We have that was a big big emergency. Will that was crazy. So again, just throwing out Dell.

C

Sonic speed, yeah.

A

C

Also, just have it completed story. Is that once you max out, you cannot disturb a lot of the stuff in the world, so.

A

Badly and believe only in a product and a leading six million records is not ten seconds. It's not ten seconds and every client waiting in there to pay every client wait in there and the kind screaming at you. That's not a fun position to I show you guys might don't make the mistakes that I did yeah so.

C

I will put that my two cents is a here he's like ok, everyone to like. Oh, we can use a secure server explains it use, MySQL, okay, MySQL and SQL Server Express.

C

Those are minimize versions of the real gate: arrays they don't use completely DCP use or they shouldn't use that they don't use the storage, they should use it and they don't have the capacity. So sometimes I get questions. Ideas is the Jose I. Have this new server bed it have like 300, gr, so forum, and so one so also on, and then everything this is no. Yes, because your vision, SQL Express, you have like minions so freckles and you wouldn't use it like a quarter of a CPU.

C

You maybe have to under City News there, but usually use enough for like a quarter hard. So if you really want to use I mean you don't want to spend their money and you want to use a database engine that will be the same as they pay engine I mean the 3/8. It will be the same as a page. I will suggest that you go with posters, because the free version of that is the same as the power, the e that you buy.

C

So as long as you know how to handle it, you can do all the crazy stuff and it will be like you have the most expensive victories ever and you will not have caps on the CPU on the train. I.

A

Will add something quickly of course, ice. Ql silver is a prime, a prime city, saying unnatural, and you know me jose. I always pushing for ushering anything I want to be bad. Phosphorus is getting second second spot there. They are adding a lot of support for public, so there are a lot of things coming up there. So again, progress is a great choice. Sql self, it would be my first one. If we have resources a second one will be purchased. I'll.

B

Add that to actually, if you're, if you're experiencing kind of long queries and you you can't figure out why and you don't want to hire a DBA, a quick tip is to actually throw your database up in Azure run some tests against it and, after a little while the Microsoft engine will come back with some free advisories. You know add an index here or change this to that and it it does help quick and easy yeah.

A

I'm really nice recommendation because they give you not one or two: they give you index key.

B

A

That's a really nice tool again a little bias, as you can tell long a little buddy from staff and a little buddy from SPO, but a little by slashes. It gives you a lot of nice, nice, alright! So the next question we got this in our Facebook group. This is not something that I'd come up with or anything we got actually died and more suggestion is best practices in Seraphina in setting up multiple security roles and doing filtering a base control and how to set up a multi-tenant environment.

C

Okay, yeah I would start with that is like well. I know that they I mean that you can use like multiple nested roles and what that requires lot of maintenance in a lot of setup. I. Remember that we have like I'm in a circle. We only have like three enterprise customer like or government type of costumers, so they have may seem amount of data.

C

They have likely requirements all the time. So it's like at the middle. We finished from Prague, really long, pretty difficult one if they ok it's time to set up the application and someone needs to create the roles who say take this document. There are like 40 roles that you need to create in your in your application and they say like no. No, no, no that's not my job here is the manual. You can write the roles yourself before the ones that you want when they saw that they need to do it for themselves.

C

They reduce it to like four roles, so nested roles are complicated. Somehow, because you don't know when you are denying something that you are allowed in a know later, so I will suggest against it. If you are not familiar using those type of roles, if you know what you do it to do, it I mean stuff. If there is something that them express, how is like amazing quality in their controls and everything and in their flows.

C

So if you really know what you're doing go, do nesting nested roles like composers, wrote from two roles, create another role and he will work because it just worked fine, but in the logistic way, if I'm, the owner of that application, I would just make it simple. I will just make all roles will be top level. They should not contain nested or should I be composed by owner roles, and that's it basically and I.

C

Do the filtering either with a controller or we, the security system, but I prefer to do it with a controller for one reason: in the security system you depend on the setup and you depend that the person makes setup correctly, that they put the right criteria and so on. If you cannot wanna do that, make it in code, because the person who is writing big I mean the administrative person who is doing their their roles might not understand what it means. So you either doing the controller or, if you're a super advanced user.

C

You can use a security system, but I would put the security system as a second option. No, that's the first one, so Dave anything that you want to out there you're welcome I.

B

Mean I've I've gone as far in a lot of applications is just defining one role, so there's still a collection on the permission policy user, but we expose a field. That is your security role and we typically do one-to-one.

B

There are scenarios where people need some a little more complex, but those are pretty far and few between we. You know we tell people, you know you can create security roles that you know take criteria into consideration to lock it down to the field level. They get extremely excited right. Oh wow, it's amazing and really the the security module available is nothing short of incredible. It's undergone a lot of changes over the years, but it is yeah. It's nothing short of amazing with that.

B

There is complexity and in most cases, we're doing one to one so you're, an administrator you're, a power user you're, a regular user you're. No, you know no access to read-only user.

B

That's typically, you know the approach we've we've taken over the over the years and in most cases it works extremely well. Yeah.

C

C

Stuff that we want to add is that we got that question a lot like Jose Javier. Can you set up this role for me? I, don't know how to do it. So I was talking with Javier one of these days and to like hey, you know what we need to do. We need to make a training course for how to administrate the staff application. Now you should deploy how to create the roles, nothing to do with the programmer. You get the same reason. What do you do after that?

C

Who is the person on the organization on the company that you work for that would deploy your assemblies, how they should deploy it? How do you create the doors how this will handle the the UI difference, how they should set up like I, don't know how, because let.

A

Me let me expand on that, so the first thing that I wanna say is better about creating rules. I'm gonna, spank different topics. Finally, they say: I'm gonna stand with the host side, the first one, a two nice thing that I have seen recently one I learned and for Dave he showed me how to get undo a screed from SQL Server. That way we get all the roles and all the permission, everything that is already set up, so you can put it on the hook data and it gets it with your application.

A

So that's what's really good because you didn't have to be free. Creating all this permission, all those roles for everyone and the second one I think that I have it somewhere here, I was looking for it. I didn't find. That is, is one that is true until it is how to get I did that Penny's post at that article, how to get the code from the whole UI, so you go to a UI you set up and I did a video of that.

A

So it's my youtube channel I, don't know what I was looking for, that you get all day payroll set up on your UI and then you use export that code. There are actually a default template that is really nice, and when you get that code and you put on your application, it gets all the permissions everything that you need there, but I also will say something.

A

South security system controls specifically are so powerful. So granular that you can do members, you can do criteria, you can do a get the most a in users. It gets everyone, they don't know how to set it up. You are the one who set it up for them. They are the one who asking you for that and now going to what a hosta say: hey I was in a company that we were doing a lot of a implementation to customers. You know like we have the air P. Okay. Well good to.

A

There is a customer that just got that sign up a paid. Now we have to implement it. Then we have to train it. So there was people that they were not developers are all that they have to do the implementation, the training, all the sport and they didn't knew nothing about the model. So they have to do a lot of trolls a lot of views, a lot of things and they didn't know how to how to approach that. So that's what the host was saying.

A

It calls a training for those people as not as I develop a mindset, but as a training as an implementation page way, if you need to do these models configurations to a here, if you need to set up this role, if you didn't set up these permissions again, I is still a measure of the amount of things that you can do in the roles things like you can do. Materia members object everything, but he gets off home based on some time. That again, just remember the Amazon has the previous security mode.

A

That is really nice, so you can be testing different roles in your own user. So you can see how a technician looks at the application, how a manner it looks at the application. How a sales guy looks at the applications, so there are a lot of power on having that a dar in your hand and again and when we say multi ten and we I start thinking a lot of things.

A

We can start thinking an application with a lot of people using, but I can start thinking of the day one database for each company, but they they are sharing the same code and they are selling the central I can start thinking. They say that arise for all you, but that we have a company ID or a record that you can print them for those and we have like a top down which I company one company to one poetry.

A

So there are a lot of variations on those, but we tell the roads between those and we filter dadada, because we cannot tell Dilara from one company to everyone. So we have a lot of combinations there. So I just like support online based practice, independence for you of your SNR, you buy, you have come. You have so much power, so much feature so most options. There there it's just a learning curve and that's what I think that, especially for implementation, people, the training course will be great and for developers they post that they need it.

A

I'm gonna, look for it. I have to see where it is. It should be I to them before the middle ain't. I will find it that how to get the role code from UI. That's when I saw that it was like I would be. I have been waiting for this for a long time. Really, nice generation you get the code run away boom. You put it under your bed, you're good to go. You can ship up with your application.

A

So that's my two cents, I, don't know if anybody where I want to add a little more I.

B

Would say only the multi-tenant side, that's really a bigger decision too, because security, or not, if you're, giving if you're, giving an end user the ability to to modify those roles. That becomes an issue on the multi-tenant side of things. So we we've put a couple systems in place where each client gets their own database. Again, it's an easy spin up of a new database just by you know, adding a new account using a very heavily customized objects base provider. That works quite well for us.

B

So if you're thinking about doing multi, tenant applications and you're interested in that feel free to reach out to us and we'll, we can discuss that too.

A

Absolutely, and by the way, I was talking about finding the article and the chat.

B

A

This one, please, everyone, take a look at this. In my opinion, this is a very. This is nice. You can generate the code from the roll and you put it on yours, data and good talk. You have you can ship it with the application. That's it nothing crazy! Because I don't know you have to you have done all these roles in code. One by one is cumbersome, is not pleasant. That's what I would say. Alright, let's continue well, okay, model design and best practice.

A

So when I start a good surf one, a 15 that I always quote I was asking and I asked everyone like leaving us Jose Jose. Actually, I Jose was one of the the ones who trained me when I was a starting hey.

A

How is the build a the the models layers yet applied like how what is happening first? What is overriding that? What is overriding? The other thing when he's dead, they actually the last one. Okay, if I stored the most different in the data base, I did a change here. I, don't see it this so I. That was a company like completely understand all the time I was like trying somebody please frame eraser or say you wanna give a quick overview of that.

C

Sure, basically, well, you know me having more than like other people here. I will say that I know that the user oriented person I'm more like a background task type of person or a Linux type of person.

C

That always did be complicated way to do this stuff, so in general, like since I was himself in day one and since day, one and my main task was to make sure that everything was working and that whenever there was a new version of stuff that we can move everything at that time, like I, don't know 15 years ago so long time ago, I decided okay, guys.

C

What we need to do is to do everything, in course, never use the model edit or never ever create an attribute anything anything on code again make your that make your application behave. The same all the time that you don't have to depend on copying the XML file or the piece of XML and put it in the model because long time ago, when people from developer expect be some changes, they did okay with these, and then we do this on the mold, and you need to put this piece of XML in the model.

C

In the third moment, I told I. This is like hell. Basically, so what we decide to do is like okay, if something breaks, we don't want to recreate it in their model. What we want to do is I have everything in code that he would recreate itself somehow so other movies, where we will start using the generators in the more remember that the first class of YouTube with me was the use of old modules and in in that lesson we learn about the generators.

C

How surf generate the nodes for each view for each business object in the Moodle, so at that moment I thought this is the most the most sustainable way to generate the stuff for the motor. So we need a lot of extensions, helper classes and around generators to make everything in code, because I didn't like the designer at the time at this moment today they model a Tory's amazing.

C

It just worked perfectly and leaf if you're, using dotnet full four six, four six one four six two in donut code is some stuff that need to be work out, but everything donut code needs to be worked.

A

Out at the moment, so now that you say that I remember when I first contact you for my first class I thought: I knew stuff and I was contacting just to make fishable notes, because I'd rather I'ma write I want to pack on my knife usable code, so you said I have lean so more Sanders like like those was like four years five years. I remember, I have learned so much after that is still learning every day. That I was like I now look bad I said: I didn't know nothing.

A

I was asking for reusable mode. I should have been asking for best practices like we're doing right now, so crazy, just one to eat that I'm.

A

Regarding that yeah again, Jose is old school, so he's always like don't use the model and I your ally was always like. I have force used to model all my life and.

B

A

Lord, so we've found it like a middle point there and I agree model has improved a lot and one thing that I always wanted to have is the model for roles. So when I have a role that that role has the model that I want abuse that I want for everyone and I understand now the complexity of doing data and expand as something like that.

A

But I know that when you have a child roles, parent role and this type of combination, we can get a little converse on those meds on the model, but I do still believe. That's a especially for when you are implementing that's a good approach, because you say all my salesmen having the same view and I don't want them to have another one. All my managers, all my my technician or whatever so I, do believe. The model is great and I.

A

Actually I'm really excited and I'm really proud of the way space with a model for Donetsk or with Darwin and nougat package. Does a big improvement for CIC default deployment for big machines. Us that's crazy! You don't need to have--you your computer in the guard with all the dll assemblies. You pretty much have everything you need whatever you need, I go to another computer I, just don't own. My first or my new it package restore so.

C

You didn't tell the story that remember that one time we have a cold and at that moment I was in Georgia, but not George. At the stage George any country see like near Turkey and I told her I mean I know how I can do this I just need to sell all their experience, bases that exist and get the catfights so I can compile.

A

Again in that time, like, let's make a library for express, unless your scene style from Belsen 13 to well soon 18 all the versions on our computer list compiled for each one one by one, unless publish this, because we can make money out of a problem. People doesn't know that after you have products is when the worker started, you have to license a documentation, you have to train and you have to support you have to that's it.

A

That's the beginning, but believe me, I, remember how I am starting like like for seven days, seven days, insulin things just to get that working and crying. Now it's just like. Let's put a build process, let's put the expansion as a barrier voltage, pass it to the sea spray done any Belgium we can handle. We can say nay, HTTP, request to the nougat Center API key get the new version done hey if you.

A

If you have not suffered, you cannot get excited. I am very away. Let's not get too deep on that. Let's keep on designing so.

C

I guess we should go to I mean unless they want to add some people number five.

C

B

This add all one piece number five, which is attributes use attributes as much as you can, because then it's generated as part of the model in the assembly, so you have to you, don't have to apply those differences on top and the number of attributes that are available to do everything from appearance rules, validation, even layout, can all be done through attributes. And it's uh it's awesome. You can see everything that is related to your business objects right from within your business objects and it it's just speed up the whole process. Moving forward, I.

A

Wanna I went out talking more because I just ready a makes us understand from day me so and completely agree. So let me put it here on the on the screen so about the roles for them. The modal controls. Let's say: I want every manager to have the sainthood. So we do have this administrative UI where we say: ok, we have them.

A

I set up the model for John that he has a role, manager and I will then copied and oil differential over graded to every new Mary, yet for every and what we do right now in this moment. Right now we go and say: okay, I wanna copy that it's working right. It's definitely a solution for that. So I don't say that we don't have a workaround, but that's one of the requests that all the implementation people were always asking, because let me tell you a lot of time those implementation people that they were not developers.

A

They were not high fade. They were just installing the software and moving forward. They missed dis elope today, instead of obereg right the marriage instead of marriage, they arrive, they choose the wrong client and big merge to something wrong else. So we had a lot of crazy things, but the good thing is like as soon as they realize the mistake. They notify us when we fix it in two seconds, because this is a really really nice tool.

A

They import your molds to get the most that you did on the PS visual studio so again is, in my opinion, a matter of training, a matter of training, the people that you are and that's why the sufis training about model management about model difference about how to use the mold for implementation. Training person will come in handy I, think that does a skill that they need to have if they are implementing or training or doing any type of support in fabrication. I.

B

Will say, with the with the built in model differences I like it? We we have met that years ago before became an out of the box piece. The only concern I have the current implementation is the shared model, differences where the differences you make in the you know in the model within Visual Studio, they then push out doesn't always seem to get updated and you have to do that. Import, shared model differences, so we actually turned that the shared storage off and we always pull the shared model from what's distributed in the XAML file. Let.

A

Me, let me tell you something about that: once I, a star in my old company and they've, completely decline it you know why, because what they used to do is let's say that they want enable you feel that those like a green field, let's change the code or something simple. They go to the chair difference and they I will say the step I. Don't know why I would save that uh by my hand, they were to a use it. They delete completely the most difference and they copy the chair. Difference to that user.

A

They changed only that field, because that was a blank model, difference the exchange solidify and copy back to the Shelf difference, and when they restart the application, he gets apply, double the chair difference and then everything else and all the users got that green field. So without recompiling or doing anything else, you can have a change applied to all users using that share difference. So it makes sense in some points to use it. So absolutely.

B

Yeah, there's um there's a couple of improvement areas that could come up so when you're exporting model differences, it just automatically spits it out to its default folder having it prompt for location, be kind of nice, distributing it to those other users, so kind of overwrite, any other, the other, the other users doing that by role I'm, not sure, if that's built in there now or not- but you know, like you said before: if you have a bunch of salespeople and you want them to have the same model, modify the differences and then ship it out to everybody in that role tends to be something we do quite a bit.

B

A

So moving forward, let's go to source control and I. Believe I actually put this comment here, just in case and actually Manuel couldn't make it today. So I think it works out because he wanted to do a dame on tasty anger, demo actually doing a unit days, anticipation, stuff, so I think that pasting a DevOps we can leave it for the next meetup. We want to start a keeping or communities under for two hours because we get excited. We have couple beer.

A

We are I enjoying this conversation a lot I can be talking here for like three four hours but is not convenient for everybody with work and with everything else and I appreciate everyone that is showing up here. So I think that, with the source control, we do 15 more minutes and add 12. We call it a day and next one we definitely focus on testing on DevOps and we do really deep.

A

We do a complete implementation, we do a complete testing, we do a tasty demo and we were from there and hopefully a and trying to convince a Apostoli to do expand, because if we see our Facebook group, he has been posting about tip Aleutian expand, and that is not working and people having some issues with him so hopefully unable to convince convince a Apostoli to at some point toe up here with us to talk about the expand frame or anything.

A

But let's just talk about source control weighing hose and I started working to areas, he used s being a lot I was like which will need sceeto, which Liz he'll hook and now he's want to use more. He group than me so yeah so.

C

Basically, have you first start from the beginning? Let's start in the year 2000. At that moment, no one was using anyone. Anything your source computer was making a zip file of yours directory and that's him. We will have something in your office for Visual Basic 6, that you do the stuff by email. You do they merge and everything by email.

C

It was like a quite difficult time, because I mean you know in mm. There was not that much internet you can of cool stuff and I was living in cyber or at that moment, so we will with SBN. It was fine, it was easy and we set it up. I mean like with no pain, and we stick with it for years and years and years to come, even to all my customers, I totally. You need to make a source controller.

C

You need to use SBN I use this extension for the studio and so on, but like maybe like four or five years ago, when I admit Javiera, totally no use kid. I said no I use this, be a nice nice, it's cool, it works and he don't know. No. No I was just think it now he's in this stuff. It's like I, don't want to mess up with you, but then I did, and it did gaily I mean like kid.

C

The home is amazing to do source, open source projects and 250 commentation the flow or the brightest and the soul. I never use brightest before I know that it's been. They do have that concept also, but they don't see it in the same way. So I would say that moving to kid was a good step was great. It was not as hard as it looks at the beginning. Looks like my. You know why, but it was really easy to go from SVN to get especially because you can collaborate between more than one person.

C

You can do merge, you can do pull requests, so the flow is started. Coming like more neat, so in the end, I would say that if any of you are using this BN, yes, SVN is great and they do the job. But if your work is world more than one person as being for me when I was just one single developer, it was amazing, but once you have to have like okay, we have h personal branch. Then we need to match it.

C

Then we need to do these and request and so on so on so on, then I told that well maybe it is better for that and maybe it's not, but it's more popular at the moment you can find thousands of articles about github heat in general, so I would say that for source control and use git, and if you do see this VN is also cool as long as you're using something because sometimes I will remember that, especially this happening in server a lot in my home country that, because we did only like enterprise type of Crowe, is like we like the enterprise.

C

So the guys called you and say like hey, you got the project, you would get the contract. We need to talk to you to see what are the practices that you do development so most of them believe that they are like really high-end. It's like you know that we invented as fewer I, mean we're like that type of level, but when I asked him, what do you use for source controller is like? Oh, we used to ship asset asset, five, that's our source controller, so then I told a well.

C

Then you really need to stop, because if you're, a zip file is your source control and you cannot know who make the changes who met? Who? What and you cannot see they in this of changes, then the organization is not as technological pants, as you want to tell me because for me, source control is the stepping stone on the foundation of a big company.

C

I cannot believe someone is using, that is its owner of a big company or is working a tech company when they don't have source controller, if they don't have, and they really really life will be easier after that and.

A

The beginning, it looks harder, you remember when you have a word document and you'll do fifteen pages and you something happen you lose and you lost everything that was crazy. Yeah.

A

So let me let me expand on that for me, the most important part about a source control and for big whatever you listen, it's about contributions, it's about working together. Do you know what I'm working on you? You are working on something else. We have a way to measure. We have to go to, let's say a gamma chance. Moles, let's say ultra moles, let's say expand. Expand is a great example.

A

You want to contribute, let's it let's put I remember when we put the turmoils, then is the default and just fix a spelling or fix something simple, but that's a big thing for us. It's like someone that we look out to like took a look at our code and just give a correction for us and that's the same thing for everyone. That is listen. You don't have to be a big debate about like we all make me stay angry. If we can work together, we can make the community better. We can grow stuff. I.

A

Believe me, if you have experience with south share your knowledge, make an article make a video that's what what all of this is about. Put them something open-source and we can contribute if I put something out there and it's wrong like grown things, get fixed quickly. If I realize that you did a mistake, I will tell you right away, and you will think that you will learn well, it doesn't get fixed quickly what it doesn't choke while it doesn't polish what is not out there.

A

So source control give you the way to do all those four pull request image.

A

All the things that we need like expand framework I, always look at it, because it's crazy the amount of automation that Apostoli has done a lot of power cheetahs that I have no idea what it's doing a lot of crazy things, but that motivates me to learn more to like what is this happening and same thing with with all the South moveth with all day, let's get together as a as a community unless a collaborate and that's what I think that source control do that. I can be here in the US coast.

A

I can be in foucha, Dave can be in Canada a another one can be in Italy and we can work the same project. We can mesh things, we can work together and we can give result because the whole issue about this for most and I love stuff is not about time.

A

It is about giving real result to customers or giving real solutions is about giving real solutions to real problems and just to give because I'm talking about good good things that I'd like about search and one thing, I think that the model in South when we're doing melts, sometimes it gets cumbersome, because there are song idea that you are not sure.

A

So you have to be the only thing that I will say that is you have to be careful on your most conflict when you are messing, some may change that someone did in the model and something that summarized did in the mall. All of that is just about putting a good a system in place, a good source control strategy, a good things if you have that in place, everything goes fluent is the thing about naming variables like if, if everybody names but I was different, we don't know what we're doing like.

A

Please, let's keep the same case. The same thing is, it doesn't have to be beautiful, but it has to be consistent, so everybody's been a song who guess they know what they have to do so, something like a style coke. Well, we decide. This is a rule. Shuffle company doesn't matter worries it's a big help in my son. Silly buddy dose is a big help and source control, Arang, making less a awesome, stuff and I think that the zoom controls are on top of my awesome stuff. Let me try to pull that up.

A

If not I will I will do a quickly blessed food. My give me column. I will put us on staff here. Let's say this: this is a quick sample sample. This is nothing like just a ripple that we put a lot of links of saffat, so we can have a believe me. I will love when I started to have a place that I can go.

A

Look for more training for reading to fault rapists, for demos, for example, so, like I, didn't have that so I will definitely don't want any beginner to have the same issues that I have. So, let's do this together list. Please get here my trip, oh, do I put request. Let's say: oh I found this nice a controller management to the book. Our solution that Jamison tea, but actually I, don't have a dinner I have to put it because this is really good. Let's add the link there.

A

Let's do it that's the day, the whole best practice, if you wanna, get a if you want to live with some best advice for best practice. Is this one get involved in the community? Ask questions don't be afraid to ask a stupid question like they say there is no super question list get involved together and everything else will come to it, because when you start asking when you start a getting involved, you get the answer. Believe me: we are here to help. Sometimes we are busy with work.

A

We are busy with analyze the right way, but you can be sure that as soon as we have some time, we can get you some pointers. We can hate with this. Go there, that's what I will do. That's what I I remember once and Dave come don't. Let me lie once I was feeling like I, don't know today trying to do something on soft web and I asking hey. What will you do this and he didn't even tell me the answer he say: can you look at this I? Did it like half an hour.

B

That's it and that's the thing about whatsapp. Is that it's not it's not difficult. None of this is difficult. It's knowing where to look it's knowing how to do it in a safe way, right people, people ask all the time hey. How do I do a custom editor? How do I incorporate my own forms and the things? How do I add controls? It's not hard. Alright, you just have to know where to put it and- and you know one of the XF approaches to doing it right. Are you doing a control detail item?

B

Are you doing a property editor? Are you doing an action that just pops up a custom thing, they're all options, they're all doable? You just have to know where to look and know how to start, and that's where your your bang on. If you have those questions reach out to us, ask us the question and we may not give you the answer, but will point you in the right direction.

A

Exactly that's the best practice that we have say in the whole made up today and I believe that the wholesale we say where I can bring to the table is not that I'm big, better himself and the one who has suffered the most and the one who have tried the most who have banged his head, the most against the world. What I can bring to the table is tell you: hey I tried that 200-ton I didn't work. Try this aluminum. There is.

C

I mean well, you know that we have, you know more than anyone that we we people reach out to us a lot. We got questions from all over the world, it's not that we are doing anything magical and southeast of magical at all is just as as Manuel said, it's just an ornate application, the more that you know don't make in general the easiest that stuff will be for you if you have ever written poop from I. Also little. You remember the name now.

A

It's right here you say: that's.

C

Why we have also.

A

C

Ever read that book everything will be like crystal clear for you all the design patterns that saw an exterior use it all most of them are in that book. If you really want to understand the tip of Howard woods and the tip is not that it is quite simple, I mean, but they spend a lot of time, pasting sailing and suffering through it. It's like read that book. Everything will be like recently for you in the end, and also there is another stuff, but we get a lot thinner of this type surf.

C

Doesn't do this XPO doesn't do. This is doesn't work this way. What does this mean, and a lot of time is that the knowledge of the other crewmen are made or the customer, nor the other company, wherever you name it, Ando net is quite basic. So the more you understand how the network works, the ether will be for you to understand how soft and XPO Wars, especially because they tell to follow all the best practices.

C

So, basically, if you see the super center of XP or star for then Express in general, that is, that going to university for big best practices. If you look deep enough, that will make you good programmer, because everything that they do, they try to follow the most even convenient practices. The most practices are related to performance, have good performance and take a good design patterns, so in general, like just go to the superset once you do have a I'd like I. Remember that for years that was my morning, I woke up.

C

I went to the office coffee check. The tickets does.

A

Anything happen everything that.

C

A

And I want to see that my unit, my university, is the support ticket every day, I read all the biggest, and only that, besides that I every day and I still learning something new that I find it. There are a lot of time that I have been trying to do something, but I haven't had the time and I have okay. I will do it later and then I find the answer on the support ticket I find and I also find things that I have never thought about.

A

Like people trying interesting thing that you never told hey, we do weather because that's a way to be in the community seeing what everybody else is doing whatever it is trying, and if you see my teacher, that's JAMA Chang does called Manuel. Does the community here from the DevExpress team, so I do believe in that that power is really powerful and I think that for the first time we're gonna stick to a two hours, because we always go over time and I could keep continual talking, especially in Twitter beer.

A

But the first thing appreciated everyone showing up appreciate that we're going to push the video publish the video later on. You do find you guys prefer to hear the interaction appreciate about all the positions and page. Please feel free toes feel free to send us a message to keep up his question to be on the Facebook group to subscribe, to suffer quickly to a please yama-chan, coders Nippon, to see manual tasting list. Let's get less a support.

A

Man well I think that that's a great idea, let's see how well that goes bar is, is really interesting and let me use uh let me just read one other coming on the Chad a1 Santiago Hale aside, that the master in software engineering Argentina are basing Martin folded books they'll be books that we were just talking about. That's a book that I really recommend. It has really good. Try. This really good designed and the next meetup we're gonna focus on testing on D Bob's. If everybody's a green hood, you can always add more so.

A

Yes, us on Facebook group on LinkedIn on Twitter on Twitter. We try to accommodate as much as we can to everybody, maybe we're getting big we're getting like, and that's that's really exciting for me we're getting to almost five hundred on Facebook and we're getting a few here. So at some point we might not get to everyone in just one meet up, but we definitely we're gonna get to them in maybe in the next one, maybe a bit, you may being an email everything.

A

So let me- uh and this is uh I I- don't know why I didn't say that reading the source code- and then you just put that is one of the old ways that I have learned a lot and I remember when I contact host for the first time to do my very usable, mold and he say just go and check how they did. The reports model check the code from bottom down check it completely, and you will see how the Express does have a fair usable model.

A

So definitely checking and then is I would put you on the spot a little bit here. A one thing that I would like at some point is to have a solution of South with all the projects that we don't have like right now. If I want to have all my projects from South from the code in my business to you, I have to go one by one all the products, and there are a lot of them at some point. I, don't know if that's going to be possible, I would like to have a solution.

A

Filed I have all the stuff. Of course. There is nothing very similar values of that. The license of that Express II do get that right away in your first project in everything else. Oh and I always do this example. I have done everything here a couple times. I have to say it today. If I have situ or say the first time that I did a bigger for DevExpress I say like hey, I, not sure how this is working and they apply with a complete demo example.

A

Everything working for me, I didn't have to do anything I just copy that and put it on. My product. I was like this is a nice support. I haven't found that anywhere, so there express support, is angle, strain some of your company and that's what we that's. Why that's why we are so passionate about that is not because we are I, don't know. Bison is because they have ended so.

C

Actually, wonderful experiences there is that I remember: I did I did a system to handle construction companies. You know that I mean again that was answerable. They make assumptions all over the Caribbean by two spaces.

C

They asked me like: can you do the system like why fast? Because we need to go to that island and start making the b-team but need to have like some control over it, so yeah? Why I can do it like and the other guy who was working with me at that frog was my friend from high school pull from both actually goose?

C

We did it like in three days, and they asked me like how many programmers you have in your company. You say I'm just me it's like, but we asked like ten other companies to do this. They took like one year and they showed me one screen and in three days you show me everything that I know from my system when I'm using the right tools so.

A

I will say something more: there is no project that I work on that I. Don't use up in some way another one if I use only a blazer project, only blazer, no sir I will do an arming tool which are if I use a summary I used to surf back with Shaff, so great that away from me, I know that he will be ending, but I do my database with Shaff and I manage it from there.

A

If I do I, don't know if I do a game for my daughter, I will put something inside there for her everything that I do I. Do it yourself? So definitely definitely that's where I Britian and yeah.

C

He's actually like having a big team on her back and I. Remember that well in reserve. All salaries are really low, like the minimum wage state two hundred dollars, so you think I have to buy a $2,200 license. You think it is a lot of money, but it paid off greatly.

C

I mean you might be just one person, but you have all Microsoft in your back working with you. So when you compare the solution that we were able to create with the owner is crucial in the molecule itself at Orion that in the Medical Center American market, they look like a kid that is four year old, throw some stuff, that's how they other applications look. And then we have our application. That looks like office 2000, something like reborn all this stuff.

C

So it's like they could not believe that I wasn't a decision of just one person.

A

At that moment, no, you remember the history who said that I told you that I went to apply for the company that they were paying a lot of money. I say what the heck I will at least apply. I wanna see you know, I wanna feel the rank. I have the skills to do it. I got their display me the project.

A

They send me to the whole team and they were paying a lot of money for the development and when they show me everything that they did and they have been working like two years I say without any a heroine. Asst I don't want to be after one everyone, a song I, don't know coffee, I, say I can do that in two months after I saw them. They have a lot of dashboard. If a lot of reports, they have a lot of I'm, not saying it's a different.

A

It's a different way of doing things in my is like you, don't want to pay a license and you're paying how much is available for a year for doing hunting for two years, so I can do in three months. Four months, yeah.

C

And also is that people say like no I want to do my own Oh Aaron. Yes, it's harder than you think. I mean it looks easy the beginning, but then you have these people from developer. Express I've been working for 20 years from that having hundreds of millions of I don't know how many tickets they have about anything and the product is so neat at the moment that for you to resell, they will be almost impossible by it. I mean get that money.

A

From your pocket, it's like with Michael he's like trying to do prison in summary. Come on.

A

That's don't paste there and go to work. Okay, guys, I, don't want to keep going.

C

Before we close, we didn't talk about the bezel were drinking today, so.

A

C

Missed again, I.

A

Think yeah yeah.

C

A

C

A

C

A

Asking before buying this, this is a competition for the Molson Canadian I was looking for a Canadian or German, and there was no German there and I couldn't contact manual. To give me some recommendation, so I asked away what about this, let me say: hey this is decent is not the greatest one bad, so the name is blue or Lovett.

A

B

Is the brewery and maybe the beer.

A

Bread they have more than they have blue and other colors or other's names.

C

Yeah I mean as good as we have different missile each time with number two Russia one day when the port is open, I will have made a Buddha which is like honey, honey, beer, I'd.

A

Know if they have work.

C

A

Gonna get the juicer. That, then, is a manual like, and there is a know when the manual told me that is the Marwar, if not I, also remember the name that will get at some point.

C

Yeah for the for the next for next Mira, okay, so I gives us everything guys. Have you the closer okay.

A

Again, everyone best practice best practice best practice get involved in the community. Thank you for being here see you in the next second started off next month. Okay, bye, guys.

B

Everyone take a.