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From YouTube: Main Estimates - Ministry of Energy
Description
Legislative Assembly of Alberta
A
A
A
A
A
B
B
B
B
B
Er
and
welcome
everyone
in
attendance.
The
committee
has
under
consideration
the
estimates
of
the
ministry
of
energy
for
the
fiscal
year,
ending
March
31st
2024.
I'd.
Ask
that
we
go
around
the
table
and
have
members
introduce
themselves
for
the
record
Minister.
Please
introduce
the
officials
you
have
sitting
with
you
at
the
table.
My
name
is
David
Hanson
I'm,
the
MLA
for
Bonneville
Cold,
Lake,
St,
Paul
and
chair
of
this
committee
and
we'll
begin
starting
to
my
right.
B
B
Thank
you
I'd
like
to
note
the
following
substitution
for
the
record
honorable
Mr
Egan
for
honorable
Mr
feon
is
acting
Deputy
chair,
Mr
tour
for
Mr
getson
and
Mr
Williams
for
Mr
Singh,
a
few
housekeeping
items
to
address
before
we
turn
to
the
business
at
hand.
Please
note
that
the
microphones
are
operated
by
Hansard
staff
committee.
Proceedings
are
live
streamed
on
the
internet
and
broadcast
on
Alberta
assembly
TV.
The
audio
and
video
stream
and
transcripts
of
meetings
can
be
accessed
via
the
Legislative
Assembly
website.
Members
participating
remotely
are
encouraged
to
turn
your
camera
on.
B
While
speaking
and
mute
your
microphone
when
not
speaking,
remote
participants
who
wish
to
be
placed
on
a
speaker's
list
are
asked
to
email
or
message.
The
committee
Clerk
and
members
in
the
room
should
signal
to
the
chair.
Please
set
your
cell
phones
and
other
devices
to
silent
for
the
duration
of
the
meeting
honorable
members.
The
standing
order
set
out
the
process
for
consideration
of
the
main
estimates.
A
total
of
three
hours
has
been
scheduled
for
consideration
of
the
estimates
of
the
ministry
of
energy
standing
order.
59.01-6
establishes
the
speaking
rotation
and
speaking
times.
B
In
brief,
the
minister
or
member
of
executive
Council,
acting
on
The
Minister's
behalf,
will
have
10
minutes
to
address
the
committee
at
the
conclusion
of
The
Minister's
comments.
A
60-minute
speaking
block
for
the
official
opposition
begins,
followed
by
a
20-minute
speaking
block
for
independent
members
and
then
a
20-minute
speaking
block
for
the
government.
Caucus
individuals
may
only
speak
for
up
to
10
minutes
at
a
time,
but
speaking
times
may
be
combined
between
the
member
and
the
minister.
B
If
members
have
any
questions
regarding
speaking
times
or
the
rotation,
please
send
an
email
or
message
to
the
committee
clerk
about
the
process
with
the
concurrence
of
the
committee,
I
will
call
a
five-minute
break
near
the
midpoint
of
the
meeting.
However,
the
three-hour
clock
will
continue
continue
to
run.
Does
anybody
oppose
taking
a
break
seeing
none?
B
We
will
announce
that
at
the
time
Ministry
officials
may
be
present
at
the
direction
of
the
minister
May
address
the
committee
Ministry
officials,
seated
in
the
gallery,
have
called
upon
have
access
to
a
microphone
in
the
gallery
area
and
are
asked
to
please
introduce
themselves
for
the
record
prior
to
commenting
pages
are
available
to
deliver
notes
or
other
materials
between
the
gallery
and
the
table.
Attendees
in
the
gallery
may
not
approach
the
table.
B
B
If
debate
is
exhausted
prior
to
three
hours,
the
ministry's
estimates
are
deemed
to
have
been
considered
for
the
time
allotted
in
the
schedule,
and
the
committee
will
adjourn.
Points
of
order
will
be
dealt
with
as
they
arise
and
individual
speaking
times
will
be
paused.
However,
the
speaking
block
time
and
the
overall
three-hour
meeting
clock
will
continue
to
run
any
written
material
provided
in
response
to
questions
raised
during
the
main
estimate
should
be
tabled
by
the
minister
in
the
assembly
for
the
benefit
of
all
members.
B
The
vote
on
the
estimates
and
any
amendments
will
occur
in
Committee
of
Supply
on
March
16
2023.
amendments
must
be
in
writing
and
approved
by
parliamentary
Council
prior
to
the
meeting
at
which
they
are
to
be
moved.
The
original
amendment
is
to
be
deposited
with
the
committee
clerk
with
20
hard
copies.
An
electronic
version
of
the
signed
original
should
be
provided
to
the
committee
clerk
for
distribution
to
committee
members.
G
Thank
you
chair
good
evening.
Everyone
I'm
pleased
to
be
here
today
to
present
highlights
from
the
ministry
of
Energy's
2023-24
budget.
As
mentioned
joining
me
here
at
the
table
from
the
Department
of
energy
are
Grant
Sprague,
Deputy,
Minister
and
Roxanne
skip
LeBlanc
assistant,
Deputy
Minister
of
Finance.
G
The
ministry
of
Energy's
mandate
is
to
manage
the
responsible
development
of
Alberta's
energy
and
mineral
resources
to
ensure
they
benefit
and
bring
value
to
albertans
the
owners
of
the
resources.
Our
ministry
contributes
to
sustained
prosperity
in
Alberta
through
the
stewardship
and
responsible
development
of
our
province's
energy
and
mineral
resource
systems
through
budget
2023,
the
ministry
of
energy
will
continue
our
efforts
to
grow
our
resources,
diversify
the
economy
and
create
jobs
for
hard-working
albertans.
G
The
ministry
is
23
24
operating
expense
budget
is
983
million
I'll
provide
additional
details
on
this
fund
funding
momentarily
expenditures
cover
funding
for
the
Department
of
energy,
including
Staffing,
as
well
as
expenses
for
cost
of
selling
oil.
In
addition,
231.3
million
of
this
funding
was
allocated
to
cover
the
expenses
of
the
Alberta
energy
regulator
or
AER.
G
It
should
be
made
clear,
however,
that
funding
for
the
AER
comes
from
industry,
levies
and
fees
which
are
collected
as
Revenue.
The
government
does
not
directly
fund
the
ongoing
operations
of
the
AER
as
part
of
the
Mandate
letter.
Given
to
me,
we
are
working
with
industry
to
develop
a
pathway
for
the
implementation
of
carbon
technology
to
support
their
goal
of
carbon
neutrality
by
2050.
G
G
Carbon
capture
is
an
important
tool
in
supporting
Alberta
industry
by
creating
lower
emission
products
that
will
be
more
competitive
in
the
global
market.
For
more
than
a
decade,
the
province
has
helped
Advance
the
commercialization
of
CCS
Technologies.
We
are
embracing
Industries
desire
to
reduce
emissions
while
ensuring
that
carbon
capture
and
sequestration
is
deployed
safely
responsibly
and
strategically.
In
the
best
interest
of
albertans,
we've
already
invested
billions
into
CCS
projects
and
programs
and
well
as
well
as
significant
regulatory
enhancements
and
knowledge
sharing
budget
2023
reflects
our
continued
commitment
and
Global
Leadership.
G
Our
government
will
continue
to
honor
commitments
for
our
value-added
natural
gas
strategy
and
the
Alberta
petrochemical
incentive
program
or
apip.
By
implementing
this
strategy
announced
in
October
of
2020,
we
have
already
seen
an
increase
in
economic
activity
across
Alberta's
entire
natural
gas
value
chain,
especially
in
the
petrochemical
and
hydrogen
sectors.
We
have
announced
more
than
600
million
in
funding
grants
ensuring
we
capitalize
on
multi-billion
dollar
opportunities
in
this
emerging
sector.
G
This
represents
billions
of
dollars
worth
of
investment
and
reflects
the
continued
growth
opportunity
of
our
natural
gas
system.
Apip
in
particular,
will
help
the
province
become
a
global
leader
in
petrochemical
production
by
enabling
us
to
aggressively
compete
with
jurisdictions
around
the
world
and
bring
long-term
investments
in
thousands
of
jobs
to
the
province.
Our
actions
continue
to
build
upon
the
strength
of
our
energy
sector
and
seize
new
opportunities
in
the
global
Marketplace.
G
For
our
resources
and
workers,
another
priority
for
the
ministry
is
ensuring
indigenous
communities
are
playing
an
important
role
as
owners
and
partners
in
major
development
projects
and
the
energy
sector.
At
Large
oil
sands
development
provides
billions
of
dollars
overall
to
indigenous
owned
companies
and
communities,
and
Alberta
has
developed
strong
Partnerships
with
indigenous
communities
and
businesses.
We
will
continue
to
further
Advance
indigenous
participation
in
the
natural
resource
economy
and
Target
Rural
and
Regional
employment
in
the
energy
and
minerals
Industries
throughout
Alberta.
G
A
notable
change
in
budget
2023
is
an
increased
cost
of
approximately
172
million
related
to
the
sale
of
Alberta's
in-kind
royalties.
This
is
in
large
part
because
oil
prices
and
production
have
increased.
As
you
know,
Alberta
receives
a
portion
of
its
royalties
from
oil
producers
and
kind,
which
means
the
producers
provide
a
percentage
of
their
oil
directly
to
the
government
instead
of
paying
their
royalties
in
cash
cost.
That
apmc
incurs
include
pipeline
tolls,
crude
oil
and
condensate
purchases,
Trucking
expenses
and
marketing
fees.
When
the
volumes
of
oil
sold
increase,
which
is
a
good
thing.
G
The
costs
associated
with
the
marketing
of
the
soil
also
increases
Transportation
costs
apply
to
every
barrel,
and
each
Barrel
must
move
to
market
via
pipeline
truck
or
rail.
Another
noteworthy
addition
to
this
year's
budget
is
increased
funding
to
the
AER.
The
total
budget
for
the
AER
is
231.3
million.
G
The
AER
regulates
energy
development
in
the
province
and
is
responsible
for
regulating
the
life
cycle
of
oil.
Oil
sands,
natural
gas,
coal,
geothermal
and
as
of
this
March
Brian,
hosted
mineral
projects
in
Alberta.
This
funding
ensures
the
AER
can
continue
to
fulfill
their
duties
on
behalf
of
albertans
funds
collected
from
industry
under
the
orphan
well
Levy,
which
fund
the
orphan
well
Association
have
an
allocation
of
135
million
and
2324.
G
for
more
than
20
years.
The
orphan
well
Association
has
been
a
maiden
Alberta
solution,
solution
to
clean
up
wells
and
sites
that
do
not
have
a
viable
or
responsible
owner.
Over
the
past
few
years,
the
owa
has
decommissioned
more
Wells
and
completed
more
Reclamation
projects
than
any
other
period
in
its
history,
similar
to
funding
for
the
aer's
operating
expenses.
This
work
is
also
funded
by
industry
levies.
G
Budget
2023
supports
Energy's
key
priorities,
so,
with
my
remaining
time,
I'll
give
you
an
overview
of
the
ministry's
key
objectives,
also
included
in
our
current
business
plan.
The
ministry
aims
to
achieve
two
main
outcomes.
The
first
is
that
albertans
benefit
from
economic
recovery
through
investment
and
responsible
energy
and
mineral
development
and
access
to
global
markets.
To
achieve
this
outcome,
we
are
committed
to
supporting
the
competitiveness
of
Alberta's
energy
industry
by
sustainably
growing
and
protecting
our
energy
resource
sector,
while
enabling
and
accelerating
opportunities
in
emerging
resources.
G
We
will
continue
to
advocate
for
our
energy
sector
and
we
plan
to
engage
U.S
and
other
Global
Partners
to
firmly
establish
Alberta
as
an
integral
reliable
partner
in
supporting
North,
American
and
Global
energy
security.
I
talk
about
all
the
work
that
we
are
doing
to
develop
carbon
capture,
utilization
and
storage,
but
another
example
of
how
we're
enabling
opportunities
and
emerging
resources
is
our
efforts
to
advance
Alberta's
mineral
sector,
so
that
Alberta
can
help
to
meet
the
rise
in
global
demand
for
critical
minerals.
G
This
also
aligns
with
our
goal
to
enhance
Alberta's
investment
climate
through
measures
that
improve
the
province's
standing
with
investors
as
well
as
many
as
well
as
with
the
ministry's
second
main
outcome,
which
is
to
have
effective,
efficient
stewardship
and
regulation
of
Alberta's
energy
and
mineral
resources.
We
will
continue
to
do
this
by
improving
the
clarity
and
efficiency
of
Alberta's
energy
regulator
system,
while
modernizing
legislation
and
regulations
and
streamlining
processes
to
enhance
the
competitiveness
of
Alberta
energy
sector
and
create
job.
G
As
you
can
see,
our
ministry
is
committed
to
encouraging
investment,
diversification
and
growth
in
the
energy
sector,
while
improving
access
to
markets.
We
continue
to
Leverage
The
entrepreneurial
Spirit
of
albertans
to
help
unlock
opportunities
for
energy
exploration
and
development
to
create
jobs
and
investment
opportunities
that
help
to
further
Alberta's
economic
prosperity
and
all
our
efforts
are
part
of
a
robust
plan
to
attract
investment,
grow
the
energy
industry
and
bring
jobs
to
Alberta,
and
with
that
I'll
conclude
my
opening
remarks,
my
colleagues
and
I
are
available
to
take
questions.
Thank.
B
You
very
much
Minister
for
the
hour
that
follows
members
of
the
official
opposition
and
the
minister
may
speak
honorable
members.
You
will
be
able
to
see
the
time
for
the
speaking
blog,
both
in
the
committee
room
and
on
Microsoft
teams.
Members.
Would
you
like
to
combine
your
time
with
ministers
I'll.
K
K
I
would
just
like
to
ask
the
minister
to
break
that
down.
Tell
us
a
little
bit
about
where
those
Capital
grants
and
what
that
program
is
I
think
we
all
know
that
this
is
critical
for
Alberta's
future
I'm
I'm
curious
as
to
why
we're
not
sort
of
seeing
an
increase
potential
there
in
terms
of
what
what
government
investment
might
be.
K
Obviously
we're
still
awaiting
the
outcome
of
you
know
some
negotiations
with
the
federal
government,
but
I
would
anticipate,
or
certainly
the
premier
has
signaled
potential
for
provincial
investment
and
I'm
curious.
Why
we
don't
see
that
reflected
here
and
sort
of
what
what
is
happening
and
whether
there
is
the
intention
to
have
increased
investment,
because
this
I
mean
this
budget
cycle
goes
obviously
for
a
year
from
two
weeks
from
now.
K
K
I'm
also
interested
in,
because
this
is
in
the
the
Ministries
business
plan.
This
is
listed
as
a
key
objective.
I'm,
also
interested
in
how
the
poor
space
allocation
is
going.
I
know
that
some
rights
have
been
granted
in
terms
of
sort
of
a
right
to
explore.
If
you
will,
in
certain
areas
it
kind
of
started
in
the
industrial
Heartland
and
it's
some
of
those
rights
have
been
granted
elsewhere,
I
believe
there
was
a
decision
expected
with
respect
to
Pathways
and
a
few
other
projects
in
October
and
so
I'm.
Just
I'm.
K
K
K
Whether
there
are
sort
of
ongoing
I
know
there
are
some
tables
that
the
federal
government
is
hoping
to
set
up,
or
there
are
other
sort
of
ways
of
discussion
as
I
understand
the
minister
of
environment
is,
is
partially
leading
this
and
has
Matt
very
recently
with
them.
So
I'd
love
to
know.
You
know
what
steps
Alberta
intends
to
take
in
what
you
know:
we're
willing
to
do
to
ensure
that
we
can
increase,
increase
our
ability
to
export,
LNG
and
and
potentially
see
sort
of
investment
decisions
on
terminals.
K
K
K
K
K
The
actual
was
254
million,
so
I'm
just
wondering
if
that
was
essentially
money
that
was
just
rolled
forward
and
spent
I
know
it
does
come
in
from
the
federal
government
and
then
I'm
also
wondering
whether
that
that
represents
us
spending
all
of
the
money.
I
think
that
was
a
pretty
good
program.
I
was
glad
to
see
it
to
go
forward.
I
think
it
kept
people
working
at
a
time
of
a
downturn,
so
yeah
I'm,
I'm
hopeful.
K
Then
also
sort
of
carrying
on
again
on
page
75
and
I'm,
also
going
to
refer
to
the
business
plan
just
to
be
I,
don't
know
extra
extra
flip
around
so
that
the
the
the
number
that
includes
that
site
rehabilitation
program
also
includes
the
mineral
strategy
and
I'll
have
more
questions
on
that
later.
It's
economic
report,
recovery
support
and
the
total
of
the
two
programs
adds
up
to
in
the
estimate
at
12
million
dollars,
912
million
960,
so
almost
13
million,
but
when
we
jump
to
so
that's
it's
made
up
of
4.1
and
4.2.
K
But
when
we
look
at
the
business
plan
on
page
44,
the
line
for
economic
recovery,
which
I
would
anticipate
to
reflect
the
same
thing
indicates
that
the
estimate
estimate
is
instead
of
13
million.
147
million,
so
I'm
just
curious
what
accounts
for
the
difference
there
and
what
else
is
included
sort
of?
Why
we
see
that
like
where
it's
broken
out
here
in
the
actual
estimate,
why
we're
only
seeing
13
million
as
opposed
to
when,
when
we're
looking
at
the
estimates
under
expense
on
page
44
of
the
business
plan?
K
Why
we're
seeing
147
million
and
that
I
mean
it,
looks
to
be
fairly
consistent,
going
forward?
It's
almost
147
again
for
the
24-25,
Target
and
190
for
the
2526
Target
and
then
like
when
we
look
at
the
budget
and
the
forecast
they're
much
more
in
line
with
what
we're
seeing
on
page
75
of
the
estimates.
So
any
explanation
that
could
be
provided
for
why
that
differences
would
be
helpful
and
I
think
I'll
just
call
it
there,
because
five
seconds
isn't
a
lot
of.
G
J
G
The
25
proposals.
First,
we
went
out
looked
for
six
sort
of
large
hubs.
Then
we
expanded
that
and
to
to
25..
Now
all
of
those
are
in
initial
design
phases.
Not
all
of
them
may
follow
through,
but
they
are
in
that.
In
that
phase,
you
are
where
we're
wondering
about
tier
or
sorry.
You
were
wondering
about
where
the
the
money
is
and
there's
money
within
tier.
That's!
That's!
Where
we've
been
allocating
funds
to
date,
we
have
put
forward
some
I
think
1.2.
G
Believe
you
know,
it's
been
made
public
that
we
are
looking
at
at
other
options
within
tier
to
be
able
to
free
up
some
funds,
but
we're
still
sort
of
looking
at
what
that
might
look
like
from
the
perspective
of
why
you
don't
see
anything
in
the
budget.
Well,
it's
very
difficult
for
us
to
design
a
program
until
we
know
exactly
what
the
federal
government
is
doing.
G
G
We
have
been
having
talks.
Various
various
ministers,
staff
and
and
those
from
the
Departments
are
having
ongoing
discussions
with
the
federal
government
on
this
very
subject,
and
once
we
once
we
see
well
I
guess
we
got
our
fingers
crossed
that
March
28th.
We
will
see
something
firm
from
the
federal
government,
then
what
we
can
do
is
start
to
look
at
at
various
options.
What's
what's
out
there?
Where
are
the
gaps?
And
you
know
what
do
we
have
the
capacity
to
do?
G
We
are
currently
evaluating
the
royalty
regime.
Looking
at
you
know
what
benefits
there
are
currently
within
the
apip
program,
and
you
know
so
we
we
really
are
trying
to
find
out
what
Financial
benefits
already
exist
within
government,
and
then
you
know
what
does
that
look
like
for
us
going
forward?
G
So
I
guess
I
can
give
you
maybe
a
little
bit
more
detail
to
that.
You
know
obviously
Alberta's
among
global
leaders,
with
a
strong
track
record
of
employing
CCS
technology
and
Commercial
at
a
commercial
scale
scale
and
we're
seeing
a
significant
next
step
in
our
journey
to
Innovation
and
towards
that
low
carbon
future
and
CCs
is
critical
to
meeting
Canada's
and
the
world's
long-term
energy
needs
and
climate
goals.
G
Our
provinces
significantly
invested
in
projects
and
programs,
as
well
as
taking
considerable
steps
on
regulatory
enhancements
and
knowledge
sharing.
I
had
mentioned
earlier,
the
the
quest
in
Alberta
carbon
trunk
lines,
and
last
year,
emissions
reduction,
Alberta
held
a
40
million
dollar
carbon
capture,
Kickstart
program
to
advance
CCS
related
Technologies
and
through
the
Alberta
petrochemical
incentive
program.
We've
also
committed
161
million
to
the
Air
Products
1.6
billion
dollar
Net
Zero
hydrogen
complex
the
facility
will
capture
95
percent
of
the
carbon,
which
will
then
be
transported
and
safely
stored.
G
Underground
demand
from
the
marketplace
for
carbon
storage
in
Alberta
is
growing
continued
to
to
advance
this
technology
will
help
us
diversify
the
energy
sectors,
including
support
the
development
of
clean
hydrogen
and
reduce
emissions
in
other
Industries,
including
concrete
and
fertilizer.
Now
we
know
that
the
the
pathways
group
has
has
really
taken
to
this
and
they
are
they're
huge
leaders.
They
have
committed
to
Net
Zero
by
2050,
and
we
want
to
be
able
to
to
support
them
in
that
in
every
possible
way
that
we
can
to
help
meet.
The
growing
demand
for
carbon
capture.
G
Alberta
is
issuing
carbon
Seacrest
Jason
Wright
through
a
competitive
process
that
enables
the
development
of
carbon
storage
hubs,
and
these
hubs
will
see
successful
operators
collect
transport
and
permanently
store
CO2
from
various
industrial
emission
sources
across
the
province.
As
mentioned,
we
have
those
25
proposals
that
are
outstanding
now
I
know
you
did
ask
about
pore
space
allocation
and
to
help
meet
the
growing
need
for
carbon
capture
storage.
G
The
governor
of
Alberta
has
selected
those
25
locations
and
when
fully
developed,
the
hubs
will
allow
operators
to
safely
collect
transport
and
permanently
store
CO2
from
industrial
emissions
sources
across
the
province
and
ensuring
a
well-defined
and
strategic
Hub
approach
to
make
sure
CO2
storage
options
are
available
and
accessible
to
all.
Industries
is
essential
to
meet
current
and
for
which
of
future
demand,
and
through
this
Hub
approach
we
are
proceeding
as
quickly
as
anywhere
in
the
world
to
diversify
the
energy
sector.
G
G
And
you
know,
by
that,
we
we
want
to
make
sure
that,
when,
when
we're
sequestering
that
we're
not
going
to
affect
any
other
resource
that
that
is
down,
there
say
you
know
especially
become
quite
important
with
the
critical
minerals
strategy
that
we've
we've
brought
forward.
So
taking
this
approach
will
ensure
that
carbon
capture
and
sequestration
will
be
deployed
responsibly
and
strategically
over
the
long
term
and
in
the
best
interest
of
albertans
and
companies,
they've
been
invited
to
to
work
with
the
government
to
further
evaluate
the
sustainability
of
their
locations
for
safe
storage.
K
Yes,
thank
you
for
that.
I
think
this
time,
I'm,
maybe
going
to
start
with
I,
am
now
in
the
sorry
evening,
my
goodness
fiscal
plan
on
page
71
revenue
from
other
sources,
the
Alberta
petroleum
marketing,
Commission
Now.
They
managed
to
get
a
little
bit
into
this
I
think
this
afternoon
in
finance
estimates.
K
But
the
suggestion
here
was
the
sort
of
swing
that
occurs
there
part
part
of
what's
going
on
in
that
line
has
to
do
with
the
Northwest
upgrade,
or
at
least
that's
what
the
Finance
Minister
suggested
and
I
was
just
curious.
I
mean
obviously,
look
this
deal
predated
us
it
predates.
You
was
under
an
entirely
other
government
originally,
but
I
understand
that
it
was
renegotiated
a
couple
years
ago
now
or
a
year
ago,
I
guess
and
I'm
just
I'm
just
sort
of
curious.
K
Obviously
I
mean
the
the
sort
of
underlying
theory
behind
an
upgrader
like
that
is
to
to
sell
a
product,
that's
potentially
at
a
higher
value,
and
sometimes
they
can,
depending
on
how
the
contact
is
structured.
They
can
be
sort
of
better
at
lower
versus
higher
oil
products,
so
I'm
just
prices,
not
products,
lower
versus
higher
prices.
So
I'm
just
curious.
K
If
you
could
tell
us
a
little
bit
about
what
what
the
ownership
stakes
and
what
the
risks
look
like,
you
know,
prior
to
the
renegotiation
and
again
afterwards,
because
I
think
you
know
there
are
I,
think
a
number
of
people
in
the
public
who
are
interested
in
that
information
about
that
project.
I
will
also
I.
K
Think
I,
don't
know
renew
renew
my
question
having
to
do
with
the
economic
recovery
support,
so
the
difference
between
page
75,
which
is
in
the
estimates
where
that
line
totals
to
almost
13
million
dollars
and
then
page
44,
where
the
estimate
is
147
million.
I'm
assuming
it
just
includes
something
else,
but
I'm
just
curious.
K
What
the
something
else
is
I'm,
also
hopeful
as
it
was.
It
was
raised
and
I
think
it's
of
Interest
to
everyone
with
the
Alberta
petrochemical
incentive
program,
so
it
wasn't
originally
in
last
year's
budget.
It
wasn't
budgeted
anything
and
then
they
got
10
million
dollars
at
forecast.
So
obviously,
at
some
point
during
the
course
of
the
year,
the
government
chose
to
sort
of
reinvest
which
I
think
is
a
good
decision.
K
K
K
But
unless
you
know,
unless
other
countries
are
willing
to
essentially
trade
us
for
the
sort
of
the
the
coal
that
the
LNG
displaces
in
other
places,
it's
it's
difficult
to
get
that
recognized
here
in
Canada
and
so
that
that
creates
some
challenges
in
terms
of
scaling
up
the
project.
So
I'm
hoping
that
you
can
tell
me
a
little
bit
more
about,
what's
being
done
to
ensure
that
that
that
that
goal
can
be
met.
K
I
think
oh
and
I
had
asked
as
well
about
the
site,
Reclamation
plan
and
whether
all
of
that
money
had
gotten
out
the
door
and
about
a
difference
between
sort
of
and
not
a
huge
difference
like
a
three
million
dollar
difference
between
what
came
in
and
what
went
out
and
also
whether
yeah
we
had
rolled
it
forward
from
a
previous
year
and
I.
Think
at
that.
I
actually
may
stop
there
temporarily
and
allow
the
minister
to
answer.
G
All
right,
okay,
I,
think
what
I'll
do
is
start
with
the
refinery
and
then
go
back
to
SRP
from
previously.
So
the
sturgeon
Refinery
continues
to
work
to
operating
cash
flows,
while
maintaining
safe
and
reliable
operation
operations
continue
to
be
optimized
to
maximize
the
refinery
unit's
overall
performance
of
production.
G
The
refinery
is
processing
an
average
of
75
000
barrels
per
day
of
feedstock
and
producing
almost
40
000
barrels
per
day
of
ultra
low
sulfur
diesel
for
Alberta
and
western
Canada,
and
it
produces
one
of
the
cleanest
low
carbon
diesels
in
North
America.
The
sturgeon
Refinery
is
one
of
the
world's
only
Refinery,
designed
from
the
ground.
G
Up
with
integrated
carbon
capture
Solutions,
approximately
2.5
million
tons
of
carbon
were
captured
since
commercial
operations
were
achieved
in
2020,
approximately
1.2
million
tons
of
carbon
dioxide
captured
annually
from
Sturgeon
Refinery
has
the
equivalent
environmental
impact
of
removing
over
233
thousands
internal
combustion
engine
cars
off
the
road
sturgeon,
Refinery
Net
Present
Value
is
improved
by
over
two
billion
dollars
during
the
last
fiscal
year
and
freeze
up
one
billion
in
cash
flow
to
government
over
the
next
five
years.
Thanks
to
the
optimization
agreement
announced
in
2021.
G
G
Some
of
the
the
production
volumes
we
have
a
total
feed
stock
from
April
2022
to
September,
2022
of
77
000
barrels
per
day,
production
volumes
of
ultra
low
sulfur
diesel
or
thirty,
nine
thousand
nine
hundred
dilutant
diluent.
Sorry,
twenty
six
thousand
four
hundred
unconverted
crude
4
300
in
other
products.
Fifty
three
hundred
for
a
total
production
of
seventy
five
thousand
nine
hundred
carbon
dioxide
captured
during
that
same
time
frame
was
35
100
tons
per
day;
I.
Guess
that
probably
captures
that
I'll
go
back
to
SRP.
G
The
anticipated
full
year
of
operations
for
2023-24
improved
reliability
and
production
as
a
result
of
the
schedule
to
turn
around
that
was
completed
in
fiscal
2223
and
improved
forecasted
commodity
prices.
So
the
fiscal
2223
had
a
plan
to
turn
around
reducing
operating
days
and
expenses,
166
million
for
turnaround
costs.
G
A
G
Yeah,
so
what
with
the
SRP
program
is
you'd
know
February
14th
my
son's
birthday,
it
was
the
the
the
close
of
the
program
and
before
I
give
you
some
of
the
details.
There
was
some
money
left
over.
Those
funds
are
are
still
being
determined
right
now,
there's
still
invoicing
that's
going
on,
so
we
don't
have
an
exact
number
for
you
on
that,
but
we
will
I.
G
What
we've
asked
for
would
be
to
say,
work
with
IRC
on
this
and
create
basically
another
tranche
with
the
remaining
funds,
with
the
Union
research
Council
being
our
our
the
primary
beneficiary
of
that
we'll
have
to
wait
and
see
what
sort
of
judgment
we
get
from
the
feds
on
that.
But
we've
been
we're,
we're
hopeful,
I,
guess,
let's,
let's
put
it
that
way:
site
Rehabilitation
process
it
program.
G
It
has
been
a
success
with
approximately
a
billion
dollars
of
federal
oil
and
gas
relief
funding,
helping
out
albertans
back
to
work
by
speeding
up
well
pipeline
facility
and
site
closures
in
the
energy
sector.
More
than
20
500
Wells
have
been
approved
for
abandonment
and
more
than
twelve
thousand
three
hundred
have
been
approved
for
Reclamation.
The
program
benefited
workers
and
families
throughout
Alberta,
providing
jobs
and
other
economic
benefits
to
indigenous
communities
and
building
capacity
for
oil
field
service
companies
to
conduct
abandonment,
remediation
and
Reclamation
across
the
province.
G
G
Their
program
allocated
up
to
100
million
in
funding
to
close
sites
located
in
areas
of
three
species
at
risk,
Caribou
Sage
gross
and
Native
trout
to
help
ReStore
Habitat
for
these
priority
species.
We
support
economic
recovery
through
a
program
that
we
see
a
high
volume
of
environmentally
significant
work
completed
in
a
short
amount
of
time,
and
this
initiative
is
another
strong
example
of
Alberta's
commitment
to
responsible
energy.
L
Thank
you
to
chair
and
Minister
and
committee
members,
so
for
the
record.
Wade
Clark
assistant,
Deputy,
minister
of
energy
policy,
division
in
the
department
of
energy
and,
as
Minister
mentioned,
the
site
rehabilitation
program
allocated
approximately
one
billion
dollars
of
federal
oil
and
gas
relief
funding.
And
of
course,
it
came
at
a
very
key
year
in
Alberta's
history.
L
Certainly,
the
performance
measurement
will
take
some
time
as
we
go
through
the
final
invoices
that
came
through
on
the
14th
of
February,
but
certainly
we
have
been
been
reporting
weekly
through
the
website
at
alberta.ca
site,
Dash,
Rehabilitation,
Dash
program,
Dash,
Grant,
Dash
funding,
Dash
status,
dot,
aspx
the
at
the
end
of
the
application
reviews
on
May
15th.
We
had
seen
37
589
applications
having
been
approved
in
that
program,
approximately
52
percent
or
sorry.
L
We
have
seen
a
tremendous
amount
of
growth
in
indigenous
businesses
participating
in
the
oil
field,
services
sector,
with
approximately
11
952
indigenous
contractors,
applications
having
been
approved
and
certainly
we're,
seeing
a
significant
benefits
to
the
to
the
communities
and
their
members
that
were
that
are
a
part
of
that.
As
Minister
mentioned
Mr
chair
the
program
final
accounting
will
take
place
over
the
course
of
the
next
few
weeks
here,
and
certainly
as
part
of
the
Ministries
2223
annual
report
in
June.
We
do
anticipate
final
numbers.
B
K
Thank
you
very
much,
Mr
chair,
so
I
think
that
covered
a
fair
number
of
those
yeah
I.
Think
the
the
the
questions
so
remaining
does
have
to
do
with
a
little
bit
of
information
around
LNG,
so
I'll
hope
we'll
get
back
to
that
and
then
I
think
I
had
asked
about
what
apip
projects
were
funded
as
well,
and
we
didn't
quite
get
to
that
either.
K
So
I'll,
just
I,
guess
renew
those
questions,
and
then
here
we
were
getting
along
so
well
I'm
going
to
ask
now
about
about
line
2.3,
which
is
industry,
advocacy
So
that
obviously
goes
to
fund
or
was
intended
initially
to
fund
the
war
room.
It's
budgeted
last
year.
So
that's
the
2022-23
fiscal
at
27
million
and
it
came
out
at
almost
32
million
in
previous
previous
budget
estimates.
K
Never
expanded
upon,
despite
frequent
questioning
so
I'm,
just
curious,
whether
that
whole
32
million-
and
this
is
for
that
this
fiscal
that
has
just
passed
so
we're
forecast
to
hit
just
under
32
million
and
I'm
just
curious,
whether
that
32
million
was
in
fact
went
entirely
to
the
war
room
next
year.
The
estimate
is
27
million
and
I'll.
K
Ask
that
same
question
whether
the
entire
thing
is
intended
for
the
war
room
or
whether
some
portion,
sorry,
it's
called
CEC
Canadian,
Energy,
Center
or
whether
some
portion
is
intended
for
other
advocacy
and
if
so,
what?
What
is
that
other
advocacy
I
think
the
other
questions
I'd
like
to
ask
are
around
the
sort
of
absence
of
any
metrics
in
the
in
the
the
the
business
plan.
So
normally
you
know
when
the
government
spends
money.
K
Nonetheless,
so
I'm
just
curious
whether
there
are
any
sort
of
metrics
for
what's
achieved
by
the
War
Room,
whether
anyone
sort
of
measures,
the
the
the
the
the
impact
that
it's
having
and
I
asked
this
because
I
know
you
know.
Certainly
when
the
NDP
was
in
government,
one
of
the
things
we
did
was
targeted
polling
and
then
advertising
into
other
jurisdictions
around
pipelines,
and
that
was
effective
like
it
was
very
effective.
It
took
support
from
40
to
70
percent.
K
K
The
other
set
of
questions
I
have
are
around
something
that
is
not
in
fact
in
the
budget,
a
project
which
I
think
the
minister
is
in
favor
of,
and
we
certainly
know
the
premier
is
in
favor
of
it
was
previously
called
R
star
I
think
that
the
consultation
has
named
it.
Something
else.
I
have
the
sheet
here:
a
concept
for
royalty
credit
pilot
program
to
incent,
accelerated
oil
and
gas
site.
K
Closure
I
feel
like
that,
probably
isn't
going
to
be
the
name
in
the
long
term,
but
anyway,
that's
that's
what
it
says
on
the
sheet,
so
I'm
just
I'm
just
somewhat
curious,
because
it's
not
it's
not
reflected
in
budget.
Obviously,
consultation
is
moving
forward
with
this
project
and
the
fact
that
it's
not
required
reflected
in
budget
would
suggests
to
me
that
there's
no
intention
for
the
program
to
spend
money
in
the
next
fiscal,
so
that
would
be
rather
rather
a
long
consultation
period.
I
guess
so.
K
I'm
just
I'm
curious,
why
we
don't
see
money
reflected
for
that
program
in
the
budget
and
whether
it
is
in
fact
the
intention
to
have
that
pilot
start
this
year
or
not,
because
if
it
is
intended
to
start
this
year,
like
potentially,
you
wouldn't
see
the
whole
hundred
million
dollars
right.
But
you'd
expect
to
see
some
of
the
money
being
expected
to
be
spent
in
this
year
and
it's
it's
sort
of
a
bit
difficult,
I
find
to
get
information
about
this
program.
The
premier
has
referenced.
K
K
I'd
also
love
to
see
sort
of
whether
the
government
is
doing
any
projections
at
this
time
on
on
what
you
expect
to
be
cleaned
up
and
what
you
expect
the
sort
of
impact
to
be
on
other
companies,
because,
obviously
most
companies,
the
vast
majority
of
companies,
will
reclaim
their
well
sites
on
their
own,
because
that
is
that
is
a
a
condition
of
their
drilling
license.
They
have
a
legal
obligation
to
do
that
and
most
folks,
in
my
experience,
tend
to
fulfill
their
legal
obligations.
So.
K
So
yeah
I'm
just
curious
whether
you
know
whether
the
government
has
done
any
work
around
that
and
what
kind
of
the
expected
cost
benefit
on
that
is
going
to
be
I'm.
Also
curious,
you
know
what
what
the
outcomes
we
intend
to
measure
are
so
that
we
know
what
the
cost
of
this
program
is
relative
relative
to
the
benefits
that
it
has,
because
again,
I
think.
K
There
are
instances
in
which
I
mean
this
is
a
problem.
It's
a
problem
that
needs
to
be
dealt
with.
I
actually
think
the
previous
Minister,
and,
in
this
case
I'm
referring
to
the
previous
UCP
Minister,
believe
it
or
not
did
make
some
positive
moves
on
this
front
in
terms
of
like
the
ability
to
transfer
old
sites
and
what
the
rules
around
those
are
and
I
think
that
that
will
have
a
positive
impact.
I
also
think
that
the
rate
of
cleanup,
like
the
rate
of
money
sort
of
going
into
the
orphan
well
Association,
has
been
increased.
K
You
know
why
the
government
wouldn't
just
carry
on
doing
that
because
it
does,
it
does
seem
to
be
having
an
impact
moving
forward.
You
know
it's.
Certainly
an
argument
could
be
made
that
it
could
go
faster,
but
I
I,
don't
see
where
spending
this
additional
sort
of
money
in
royalty
credits
is
necessarily
going
to
improve
that.
G
I'll
start
with
the
apip
and
then
get
on
to
LNG.
So
with
the
Alberta
petrochemical
incentive
program.
Apip
will
make
us
a
global
leader
in
petrochemical
production,
bringing
long-term
investment
in
thousands
of
jobs
to
the
province.
Apif
stands
ready
to
fund
12
percent
of
capital
costs
for
any
petrochemical
facility,
using
natural
gas
as
feedstock
and
currently
has
billions
in
Project
applications.
We
have
already
announced
more
than
600
million
in
funding
grants
ensuring
we
capitalize
on
multi-billion
dollar
opportunities
in
this
emerging
sector.
G
In
2022
we
announced
that
408
million
dollars
for
inter
pipelines,
approximately
four
billion
dollar
propane
to
propane
to
polypropylene
plastic
facility
and
the
industrial
Heartland
north
of
Edmonton.
The
facility
is
the
first
of
its
kind
in
North
America
and
the
first
approved
under
apip
Air
Products
natural
gas
to
hydrogen
production
facility
will
receive
161.5
million
under
8-bip
and
will
help
to
grow
the
clean
hydrogen
sector.
Apip
is
also
granting
32
million
to
help
Dow
Chemical
expand
its
Fort,
Saskatchewan
and
ethylene
production
facility.
G
Apip
is
a
pillar
of
Alberta
Natural,
Gas,
Vision
and
strategy,
and
will
further
diversify
the
energy
sector
from
2010
to
2020.
Over
250
million
was
invested
in
the
U.S
petrochemical
sector.
This
is
more
than
10
times
what
was
invested
in
Canada
and
it's
estimated
There's
an
opportunity
for
more
than
30
billion
worth
of
investment
in
the
province's
petrochemical
sector
by
2030..
Now,
I'll
get
you
to
clear
up
that
that
one
item
with
the
program
Roxanne.
H
So
if
you
were
referencing
page
for
44
of
the
business
plan
and
kind
of
referencing,
the
discrepancy
there,
so
the
forecast
of
486
million
here
represents
the
reprofiling
of
the
SRP
and
also
includes
the
10.8
million
that
Minister
has
also
referred
to,
and
of
course
you
mentioned
the
146
000
into
23
24.
So
if
you
do
the
difference,
minus
the
apip
program,
that's
how
we
get
to
the
147..
So
if
I
want
to
take
you
back
now
to
page
75,
I
believe
that
you
were
referencing
as
well.
H
G
Okay
and
now,
as
far
as
those
program
costs
are
concerned,
any
cost
to
albertans
will
be
significantly
outweighed
by
the
millions
of
dollars
in
additional
provincial
and
Municipal
revenue
and
hundreds
of
jobs
for
albertans.
That
would
result
from
even
a
relatively
small
increase
in
investment
from
the
petrochemical
sector.
G
G
I
can
tell
you
that
in
some
of
the
recent
travels
we've
had,
we've
talked
about
this
particular
program
and
it
has
really
perked
the
interest
of
of
foreign
investors
and
I
can
say
that
there's,
oh,
probably
30
other
projects
that
that
are
considering
moves
here
so
really
really
a
program.
That's
had
a
tremendous
amount
of
success
and
and
I
think
that
we'll
see
this
type
of
program
maybe
be
expanded
into
other
areas
within
our
government
so
that
it's
not
just
related
to
Natural
Gas.
G
As
far
as
the
LNG
side
of
things
now
the
question.
Okay,
we
were
talking
about
displacing
coal
I,
think
that
was
one
of
the
questions
you
were
asking
around
and
article
six
yeah.
This
is
certainly
something
that
is
of
Interest
we've
seen
recently,
a
bunch
of
activity
I
would
have
British
Columbia.
Even
in
the
last
couple
of
days,
we've
got
Cedar
that
was
that
was
announced.
G
Two
days
ago
we
have
the
Squamish
facility
at
wood,
fiber
and
kind
of
LNG,
the
shell
project,
that's
that's
being
built,
so
there's
a
tremendous
amount
of
of
Interest
off
the
the
West
Coast.
As
you
know,
we're
we're
doing
some
work
from
an
economic
corridors
perspective
north
south
east
west.
That
would
include
going
to
Manitoba,
as
there
are
potential
opportunities
there
and
the
use
the
use
of
article
6.
It
is
an
interesting
concept
that
we
believe
that
certainly
deserves
to
be
explored.
G
We
need
to
have
countries
that
may
be
interested
in
in
working
a
deal
with
us.
I
guess
would
sort
of
be
the
maybe
someone
there
or
a
country
that's
willing
to
to
share
the
credit
with
us.
So
it's
kind
of
a
you
have
to
deal
with
each
individual
jurisdiction
on
their
own
in
order
to
be
able
to
obtain
those
credits.
But
we
definitely
feel
that
this
is
a
worthwhile
Endeavor.
G
So
it's
pretty
important,
I
I
think
for
for
Alberta
to
be
able
to
move
their
products
off,
whether
that's
to
Valdez
or
through
British,
Columbia
or
finding
ways
to
to
get
it
down
to
the
Gulf
Coast
or
to
Hudson's
Bay
I
mean
this
is
certainly
something
that
that
we
need
to
be.
We
need
to
be
working
on
now
as
far
as
conversations
with
the
federal
government.
Yes,
we
we
are
having
those
those
conversations.
G
So
you
know
we
are
working
hard
to
improve
LNG
Market
access
and
establish
infrastructure,
Foundation
necessary
for
hydrogen
based
exports
like
ammonia,
and
these
efforts
include
collaborating
with
governments,
regulators
and
Industry
to
streamline
project
approvals,
improve
pipeline
access
and
get
infrastructure
built
to
ship
natural
gas
to
International
markets
and
securing
a
second
world
scale.
West
Coast
LNG
project
was
one
of
48
recommendations.
It
was
found
in
the
road
map
to
recovery
report.
G
Our
access
to
global
markets,
where
does
natural
gas
can
help
meet
the
growing
demand
for
sustainable
energy
while
creating
good
jobs
and
generating
billions
of
dollars
in
Revenue,
applying
Canadian
natural
gas
to
replace
coal-fired
electricity
production,
especially
in
growing
Asian
markets,
can
help
reduce
Global
greenhouse
gas
emissions
by
millions
of
tons
per
year.
Alberta
is
also
working
directly
with
global
companies
interested
in
sourcing
ammonia
from
Alberta
to
understand
and
address
competitive
gaps
in
infrastructure
constraints.
G
B
K
Okay,
since
this
hour
block
is
about
to
end
I'll,
just
ask
two
quick
ones:
I
will
just
ask
again
about
2.3
Advocate
industry
advocacy,
whether
that's
forecast
32
million
this
year
and
estimated
27
million
next
year,
whether
that
all
goes
to
the
war
room
or
whether
some
portion
is
for
other
advocacy
I.
Think
is
what
the
the
previous
Minister
called
it,
and
just
because
you
mentioned
it.
K
Ammonia
sort
of
the
movement
of
ammonia
I
know,
there's
challenges
putting
it
on
trains
with
respect
to
the
insurance
I'm
just
curious,
whether
the
department
had
under
consideration
whether
that
could
ever
go
by
way
of
a
pipeline
or
if
there's
any
sort
of
consideration
of
that
I
know
putting
different
things
on
pipe
can
be
challenging,
but
I'm
just
curious.
If
there's
any
work
underway
thanks.
G
G
I'll,
maybe
I'll
just
start
with
the
the
ammonia
right
off
the
off
the
Hop.
We've
been
having
discussions.
This
is
it.
You
know
here
domestically
we're
getting
a
lot
of
interest.
We
have
a
lot
of
petrochemical
here.
We
have
refineries
Etc,
so
locating
hydrogen
here.
It
makes
sense
because
we
can
use
it
right
here
at
home,
but
the
transport
is
really
part
of
the
the
problem.
G
So,
in
fact,
you
know
the
discussion
we
had
with
Minister
Wilkinson
yesterday
and
included
discussions
around
this
and
about
us
trying
to
to
find
solutions
for
it
because
we
do
have
a
Marketplace.
There
is
a
real
desire
to
to
have
and
expand
the
hydrogen
Marketplace,
and
we
know
that
the
federal
government
is
promoting
hydrogen
I
mean
Germany,
German,
Chancellor
Schultz
came
here
and
we
said
well,
no,
we
don't
have
any
LNG
for
you,
but
we
got
hydrogen
okay.
Well,
if
that's
the
case,
then
we
need
to
find
a
way
to
move
it.
G
The
most
likely
way
short
and
medium
term
is
by
rail.
So
that's
really
where
our
Focus
needs
to
be,
as
you
mentioned,
pipelines
of
any
kind
or
are
not
easy
to
to
get
built.
First,
you
have,
to
you,
know,
design
them
and
then
get
through
the
regulatory
process
and
and
build
them,
and
you
know
it
is
possible
to
move
hydrogen
through
pipelines
but
yeah.
That's
that's
more
a
long-term
solution
and
doesn't
help
us
in
the
immediate
term
to
capitalize
on
what's
taking
place
in
the
market
right
now.
G
B
J
You've
got
10
minutes;
okay,
thank
you.
Mr
chair
thanks
to
minister
Guthrie
and
your
staff
for
all
you
do
for
Cyprus
medicine
had
in
Alberta.
It's
appreciated
and
thank
you
for
being
here
tonight
to
answer
some
questions.
I'd
like
to
start
on
page
44
of
your
statement
of
operations,
particularly
Benjamin
royalty,
about
lines.
Five
on
your
Revenue,
your
2023-24
estimate
is
12
and
a
half
billion
dollars.
J
You
know
we're
so
blessed
here
in
Alberta,
if
I,
just
back
up
to
your
forecast
from
the
end
of
2022
and
2023,
that
almost
28
billion
that
oil
and
gas
bitumen
and
crude
oil
royalties
provided
28
billion,
that's
like
40
or
45
percent
of
our
spend
that's
before
we
consider
what
oil
and
gas
does
for
personal
income
income
tax
to
the
government
of
Alberta
and
corporate
attacks.
That's
we're
very,
very
blessed
here
in
Alberta,
but
Minister,
I'm
concerned.
J
J
You've
missed
You've,
Been
Under
by
that
amount,
and
so
so
I'm
having
trouble
getting
confidence
in
your
estimate
of
12
and
a
half
billion
prices
haven't
been
that
volatile
in
the
last
couple
years.
But
what
I
understand
the
difference
is,
as
many
of
our
oil
sands
plants
are
now
past,
the
they're
at
post,
Capital
recovery
they've
recovered
their
investment,
so
their
payout
goes
up
considerably
to
to
the
people
of
Alberta
and
I.
Understand
that,
prior
to
them
recovering
their
their
Capital,
they
pay
1.9
percent
of
gross
revenue
after
they
recover
their
Capital.
J
J
Are
we
going
to
have
more
next
year,
I've
seen
a
couple
of
articles
I?
Think
Chris
Varco
was
the
more
recent
one
talking
about
how
flush
the
the
people
of
Alberta
going
to
be
because
of
of
our
oil
and
gas
royalties.
So
so,
if
you
don't
mind,
I'd
like
you
to
spend
some
time
telling
me
why
why
I
should
have
confidence
in
12
and
a
half
billion
dollars
instead
of
18.7
billion
again,
you've
missed
by
considerably
two
two
years
in
a
row.
J
Secondly,
I
want
to
go
to
the
performance.
Metric
I
still
hear
a
lot,
although
not
as
much
as
I
used
to
that
Alberta
isn't
as
quick,
isn't
as
as
re
hasn't
reduced
red
tape
as
much
as
Saskatchewan,
and
things
can
get
get
done
there
quicker.
So
you
have
a
performance,
metric,
called
timeliness
of
application,
processing,
page
43
of
your
business
plan,
and
it
says
99
of
applications
met
the
turnaround
targets.
What
are
the
turnaround
targets?
How
do
you
compare
to
Saskatchewan?
How
do
you
measure
that
again,
the
I?
J
J
J
The
successes
are,
what
have
the
success
has
been
so
so
I'm
a
believer
that
you
should
just
shut
it
down
and
and
save
the
money.
But
if
you
want
to
take
a
minute
and
and
tell
me
what
the
successes
are
of
the
Canadian
Energy
Center
I
would
be,
I
would
be
glad
to
hear
that
I'm
noticing
on
Orphan
well
abandonment.
Your
light.
Your
line
item
this
year
has
increased
from
78.5
million
your
2022
23
budget
to
135
million
or
2023-24
budget
is.
J
Is
this
where,
where
the
r
star
program
is,
is
being
funded
for
all
kinds
of
Reason,
picky
winners
and
losers
and
corporate
welfare
you,
you
know
that
I'm
against
paying
for
something
that
that
producers
clearly
knew
was
was
their
obligation
I'll.
Just
let
you
know,
since
I
came
out
publicly
against
it.
I've
had
a
lot
of
oil
and
gas
people
text
me
or
email
me
and
say:
yeah.
J
We
want
to
clean
up
after
ourselves
and
I
and
I
would
suggest
that
I
think
it's
only
three
years
ago
that
we
are
good
producers
accidentally
over
produced.
We
couldn't
meet
pipeline,
we
we
overproduced
our
pipeline
capacity
and
and
I
hope
to
goodness
you're,
not
looking
at
creating
this
situation
where
you
give
incentive
to
over
produce,
and
we
start
to
head
back
towards
lower
production,
because
we
can't
can't
get
our
oil
and
gas
out
of
here.
I.
Wonder
if
that's
that's
been
considered.
J
Another
one
of
your
performance
metric
indicators:
you
have
pipeline
safety,
number
of
high
consequence
pipeline
incidents,
I'm
pleased
to
see
that
it's
going
down,
I,
remember,
meeting
three
or
four
companies
five
or
six
years
ago
that
have
developed
a
great
fiber
optic
system
that
went
right
on
or
beside
the
pipeline.
That
could
immediately
tell
the
pipeline
operator
if
there
was
a
compression
change
and
they
could
shut
it
down
in
a
department
and
really
diminish.
J
You
know
the
loss
of
product
and
an
environmental
hazard
I
wonder
if
that's
happening
or
if
there's
other
reasons
and
and
I'm
also
kind
of
wondering,
though,
like
we
know
pipelines,
are
the
safety,
the
safest.
Perhaps
one
of
your
performance
metric
indicators
should
be
rail
accidents
or
or
shipping
accidents.
Maybe
we
shouldn't
you
know.
Maybe
we
should
have
a
fuller
understanding
of
what
else
is
going
on
out
there
in
the
world.
J
It
looks
like
a
330
million
dollar
loss,
but
for
some
reason
this
year,
you're
estimating
only
a
17
million
dollar
loss.
What
you
you
talked
when
you
answered
the
Calgary
Mountain
View
mla's
earlier
questions
you
talked
about
net
value
going
up,
I
think
was
it
was
either
two
or
five
billion
I'm.
Sorry,
I
can't
remember.
Does
that
get
reflected
anywhere
in
the
statements
or
or
is
that
capitalized
and
value?
That
is
only
attributable
if,
if
income
stays
high
in
interest
rates,
stay
relatively
low,
I
did
also
in
your
comments
here.
J
You
mentioned
2020
when
it
started
to
produce
I,
remember
a
huge
problem
where
they
couldn't
get.
They
couldn't
achieve
continuous
production,
the
cracker
or
whatever
the
engineering
situation
was
just
wasn't
working
and,
of
course,
we
know
that
these
plants,
don't
don't
work
well.
Unless
we
we
can
have
continuous
production.
So
I'm
wondering
if
you
know
anything
that
can
tell
me
about
that
and
again
I'm
also
surprised
of
a
loss.
If
that's
accurate
and
I
know
we
do
take
some
bitumen
through
the
brick
program.
Is
that
mixed
in
in
there?
J
J
Just
your
thoughts,
please
Minister
Guthrie
I've,
heard
from
time
to
time
that
our
LMR
is
is
onerous
compared
to
Saskatchewan
compared
to
other
projects
and
smaller
companies
in
particular,
and
one
of
your
goals
is
to
create
and
enhance
an
entrepreneurial
Spirit
which
big
companies
have
that
too.
But
but
you
know,
smaller
companies
maybe
need
more
of
a
hand
up.
J
If
there
was
a
mistake,
an
oversight
if
new
standards
needed
to
be
implemented,
have
you
done
that?
Have
we
made
sure
that
those
obligations
are
important?
Seven
oil
by
rail
I
mean
the
last
NDP
government
invested
hundreds
of
millions
in
it.
The
UCP
government
spent
hundreds
of
millions
getting
rid
of
it.
Did
we
ever
move
any
oil
by
Rail
and
are
we
still
losing
the
TC
energy
pipeline?
The
Keystone?
Is
it
still
only
being
used
for
storage
to
receive
any
revenue
for
storage
and
how
long
will
that
pipeline
last
in
the
ground?
G
G
You
know
we
currently
are
around
4
million
barrels
per
day.
Our
capacity
is
a
little
bit
over
four
and
a
half
million
barrels
per
day.
We
have
TMX
that
will
come
online
early
next
year,
so
it'll
be
completed
at
the
end
of
at
the
end
of
this
year.
That's
going
to
add
an
additional
590
000
barrels
per
day.
Putting
us
over
5
million
barrels
per
day
right
there
and
then
Ambridge
is
has
they
have
some
optimization
plans?
G
They
think
they
can
get
another
350
000
barrels,
so
that
takes
us
to
about
five
and
a
half
million
barrels
of
potential
expandability
in
the
next
couple
of
years,
which
would
add,
probably
I
I,
would
think,
certainly
in
other
decades,
10
to
15
years
of
capacity,
so
I
think
we'll
be
in
in
very
good
shape.
On
the
gas
side,
I
don't
have
the
numbers
off
the
top
of
my
head,
but
you
know:
there's
there's
a
lot
of
BC
gas.
G
That
comes
through
Alberta
and
some
of
that
gas
is
going
to
get
reallocated
for
LNG
Canada
right
now,
we're
not.
We
are
not
maxed
out.
We
we
do
have
space,
but
that's
going
to
also
free
up
some
space
in
our
pipeline
system
in
the
future,
so
I
think
short,
medium
term.
You
know
we
are
looking
in
a
in
a
pretty
strong
position.
So
now,
as
far
as
your
the
bitumen
royalty
questions,
okay,
so
the
2022-23
forecast
is
higher
than
22
23.
G
3
budget,
due
primarily
to
The
Surge
and
prices,
helped
by
the
Russia
Ukraine
war,
with
tight
Global
Supply
demand
balance
supporting
elevated
prices
over
the
forecast
period
with
higher
prices,
oil
sands,
royalty
rates
increase
and
more
projects
pay
on
a
higher
net
royalty
rate,
and
so
the
the
2023-24
estimate
is
lower
than
the
2223
forecast,
due
primarily
to
a
forecast,
a
decrease
in
market
prices.
So
yet
year
over
year,
royalties
begin
to
retreat
stabilizing
from
the
2324
onwards,
as
prices
moderate
and
adjust
downwards,
mostly
explained
by
improving
Global
supply
and
demand
balances.
G
You
know
in
just
a
couple
of
short
years
ago
we
were
at
negative
oil
prices,
so
there
has
been
some
considerable
swings
and
in
fact,
even
today
you
saw
a
major
swing
in
the
in
the
price
of
oil
just
due
to
some
uncertainties
in
the
marketplace.
So
you
can
see
how
how
much
it
can
it
can
swing
so
difficult.
You
know
difficult
thing
to
do
to
be
able
to
exactly
predict
of
what
something
might
look
like
12
months
out
and
certainly
24
and
36
gets
even
even
more
difficult.
G
Now
the
the
figure
that
is
used
in
the
budget,
though
I
should
clarify
with
you
that
is
determined
by
treasury
board
and
finance.
It's
actually
not
our
department.
That's
that
selects
that,
but
I
just
wanted
to
give
you
that
a
little
bit
of
feedback
on
that
and
the
non-renewable
resource
Revenue.
It's
obviously
an
important
source
of
revenue
for
Alberta
and
over
the
last
20
fiscal
years
from
2002
through
the
2122
non-renewable
resource
Revenue
accounted
for
between
six
percent
and
41
of
total
government
revenue.
So
nrr
is
extremely
volatile.
G
Much
more
than
personal
income
tax,
which
is
the
largest
source
of
government
revenue
and
nrr,
is
sensitive
to
changes
in
prices,
technology
and
market
conditions
to
forecast
prices.
The
government
of
Alberta
closely
tracks
market
developments,
for
example
the
economic
impact
from
Coba
19,
the
OPEC
decisions
on
production
targets,
the
pipeline,
slash
rail,
takeaway
capacities,
Russia's,
ongoing
invasion
of
Ukraine
ESG
commitments
and
the
trend
of
energy
transition
so
enter.
Our
forecasts
are
updated
in
the
annual
budget
and
the
following
three
quarterly
fiscal
updates.
G
During
the
fiscal
year
as
of
December
31st
2022,
there
are,
let's
see
111
active
oil
sounds
projects,
including
four
Legacy
Crown
agreements
of
which
46
were
in
pre-payout
status,
while
65
were
in
post
payout
status.
So
given
high
oil
prices
in
2223
to
oil
sands
projects,
with
a
combined
production
of
over
280
000
barrels
per
day
reached
payout
during
the
22
calendar
year.
G
Another
two
projects
are
expected
to
reach
payout
and
23
and
four
more
projects
in
24,
none
in
25
and
1
in
26,
and
this
is
in
addition
to
post
payout
projects,
paying
higher
royalties
on
net
revenues
and
higher
royalty
rates.
Both
due
to
higher
prices
contributed
to
the
significant
increase
in
royalties
in
the
22-23
fiscal
year
and.
G
Yeah
I'll
go
to
Canadian
Energy
Center,
oh
I'm,
sorry,
to
hear
that
unless
you're
not
a
fan,
I
I
am
I
I,
quite
quite
like
the
Canadian
Energy
Center
I
think
they're
doing
doing
terrific
work
there
and
you
know
I,
think
small
stumble
out
of
the
gate
shouldn't
be
shouldn't.
Take
the
the
whole
organization
down
the
intent
of
the
Canadian
Energy
Center
originally
was,
was
not
not
to
sell
to
albertans,
because
I
think
most
albertans
are
convinced
on
the
importance
of
the
oil
and
gas
sector
here
in
this
province
and
energy
period.
G
So
the
the
target
market
for
this
was
really
Eastern
Canada
and
Northeastern.
United
States,
as
well
as
Europe
I,
mean
that's.
So
that's
sort
of
an
initial
comment
on
that
and
you
had
you
had
asked
about
these
successes.
I
think
that's
where
you
were
going
with
it.
So
I
thought
what
I
might
do
is
just
give
you
some
of
the
some
of
the
metrics
that
that
we
have
and
on
some
of
the
campaigns
in
both
the
US
and
Canada.
Cec's
campaigns
are
moving
sentiment
regarding
Canadian,
Oil
and
Gas
in
the
positive
direction.
G
Canada
we
had
pre-campaign.
Research
showed
that
sentiment
in
Canada,
regarding
pipelines
in
oil
and
gas,
was
on
the
decline.
The
goal
of
the
CEC
and
the
Canadian
campaign
was
to
increase
support
for
our
oil
and
gas
industry.
The
target
markets
were
Ontario
BC
and
Quebec,
and
pre
and
post-campaign
research
was
conducted.
61
percent
of
the
people
who
saw
the
odds
said
they
were
support.
They
supported
Canadian
oil
and
gas
industry
up
from
previously
at
47
percent.
So
that's
a
14
point
shift
in
sentiment
in
U.S.
G
The
U.S
research
was
built
to
measure
sentiment
around
the
statement.
Canada
should
be
our
preferred
supplier
of
oil
and
natural
gas
to
meet
any
shortfall
in
America's
energy
needs.
Cec's
U.S
campaign
has
so
far
shifted
sentiment
positively
by
20
points
from
65
percent
to
to
85
percent.
Additionally,
those
who
saw
one
of
the
cec's
ads
were
significantly
more
likely
to
strongly
agree
41
versus
24
with
that
statement.
B
D
If
you're
open
to
that
sure
sure,
okay,
so
first
of
all
Let's
I'm
gonna
Focus,
mostly
on
the
performance
metrics,
so
starting
with
1A
there,
the
oil
sands
supply
of
global
oil
demand
or
consumption
whatever
is
where
I
want
to
start
here.
My
question
relates
to
Federal
emissions
caps
with
the
federal
government's
proposals
to
essentially
put
emissions
cap
on
the
energy
sector.
D
How
is
Alberta
going
to
be
able
to
increase
energy
production
because,
because
in
your
in
your
performance
metrics
here,
you
do
show
a
gradual
and
reasonable
increase
of
Global
Supply
I
I
guess
I
could
be
cynical
and
wonder
if
that
means
that
Global
demand
is
going
to
go
down.
That's
how
the
share
is
going
to
increase,
but
I.
Don't
think
that's
what
you
mean
so
I
am
concerned
about
the
federal
emissions
cap.
How?
D
How
are
we
going
to
be
able
to
increase
our
energy
production
in
light
of
those
happening
and
and
what
what
engagement,
Pro
process
and
anytime
you
cut
a
deal
with
anyone
it
has
to
be.
You
know,
give
and
take.
There
needs
to
be
a
win-win.
What
what
do
you
have
to
give
to
the
feds
to
to
be
able
to
make
progress
on
this?
As
you
move
forward,.
G
Yeah,
you
know
we'll
we're
gonna
continue
to
work
with
industry,
to
utilize
knowledge
and
expertise
and
the
maintain
or
expand
production
while
reducing
emissions
through
technology
and
Innovation,
and
it's
industry
that
are
the
leaders
they're,
the
ones
that
that
we
need
to
to
work
with.
We
can't
work-
and
you
know,
and
have
aspirational
goals
and
go
out
and
work
in
a
vacuum
and
create
through
in
think
tanks
that
that
have
no
idea
what
the
industry
is
is
doing
and
we.
G
To
achieve
that
goal
of
carbon
neutrality
by
by
2050-
and
you
know,
the
oil
sounds
as
as
an
example
in
the
last
20
years,
they've
reduced
their
emissions
by
over
35
percent
and
in
the
last
decade,
22
percent
they're
doing
an
absolutely
a
bang-up
job
there.
And
this
same
group
of
oil
sands
producers
formed
the
pathways
Alliance
to
with
a
goal
of
meeting
Net
Zero
by
by
2050
and
they're.
G
G
We
don't
need
it,
and
these
companies
are
are
working
and
moving
forward
and
we're
going
to
continue
to
advocate
for
albertus
energy
and
and
make
it
clear
that
this
is
provincial
jurisdiction
and
the
federal
government
does
not
have
the
right
to
to
step
on
our
constitutional
right
to
develop
our
resources.
Then,
as
owners
and
managers
of
our
resources,
Alberta
is
best
position
to
design
policy
to
achieve
climate
objectives
in
this
sector.
D
No
I
appreciate
the
internet
and
I
do
totally
agree
with
you
working
with
the
industry.
Maybe
you
could
just
clarify
one
thing
for
me,
though,
that
maybe
I
should
know
but
I,
don't
when,
when
the
feds
are
talking
about
this
emissions
cap
and
and
the
industry
talks
about
reaching
zero,
are
they
just
talking
about
the
emissions
emitted
during
the
process
of
refining
or
are
they
talking
about
the
actual
end
use
of
burning
the
product
when
it
reaches
the
consumer?.
D
G
Well,
the
part
of
the
problem,
you
know
you,
we
have
activists
and
their
their
goal.
Is
you
know
the
the
end
fossil
fuels
as
we
know
it,
and-
and
that's
that's
just
it's
not
a
a
viable
option.
This
oil
and
gas
is
going
to
be
around
for
decades
and
decades
to
come
and
what
we
should
be
doing
is.
We
should
be
supplying
more
oil
and
gas
to
the
world.
G
We
were
talking
earlier
about
coal
plants
popping
up
in
in
China
and
one
of
the
things
that
they're
doing
is
supplying
Renewables
to
us.
So
you
know
what
whether
we
you
know
what's
this
really
all
about?
Are
we
really
truly
worried
about
global
emissions?
Because
if
we
are,
then
that
means
that
our
product
should
be
the
first
choice
that
that
they
go
to.
D
Yeah
I,
don't
disagree
objective
two
I
mean
you've
already
talked
about
a
little
bit,
but
maintaining
provincial
jurisdiction.
Enhanced
regulatory
certainty
for
Alberta
energy
resources,
I
mean
we
know
clearly
that
the
industry
wants
Alberta
to
to
maintain
that
and
and
is
determined
to
to
Advocate,
that
that's
how
it
is
I
just
wondered:
do
you
I
mean
what
actions
are
you
going
to
be
able
to
take
to
keep
that
up?
I
know
that
is
the
current
commitment
of
the
government.
G
I
think
there's
been
a
real
change.
I,
you
know
there
we
look
at.
What's
what's
been
going
on,
you
have
Germany
coming
to
to
the
Prime
Minister.
We
have
Japan,
we
have
South
Korea
and
you
know
we.
We
did
this
these
travel
to
to
Europe
and
you
have
the
world
reaching
out
to
Canada
reaching
out
to
us
asking
for
our
help
and
that
how
do
we
say?
No
to
that?
That's
you
know,
that's
mind-boggling.
To
me.
One
I
mean
from
a
compassionate
perspective.
We
should
want
to
be.
G
D
Still
kind
of
on
the
same
subject
of
the
admissions
piece,
the
the
methane
targets.
I
know,
industry
has
accepted
that
pretty
well,
there's
been
a
lot
of
progress
on
it,
but
but
do
you
feel
like
we're
on
track
to
meet
the
Federal
target
and,
and
are
there
new
requirements
being
put
forth
or
imposed
on
the
province
as
part
of
those
new
targets?
And
again,
how
do
you
engage
with
the
feds
with
regards
to
the
the
methane
piece.
G
Yeah
so
the
federal
government,
they
released
a
discussion
paper
in
March
of
2022,
which
invited
comments
on
the
development
of
methane
reduction
in
order
to
achieve
Canada's
stated
75
percent
reduction
by
2030
from
2012
left
levels.
Now
I
can
tell
you
that
the
the
actual
commitment
that
was
given
by
Canada
was
was
30
percent
as
a
whole.
Now
us
as
a
province,
you
know
we
did
agree
to
and
committed
to
a
45
reduction
by
2025..
G
So
I
can
tell
you
that
you
know
right
now.
We
are
at
about
44
with
two
years
to
go
so
we're
doing
a
heck
of
a
job,
but
the
there's
been
signals
that
have
been
made
not
signals
but
outright
announcements,
one
of
them
at
cop27
that
the
the
federal
government
is
going
to
impose
a
75
percent
reduction
by
by
2030..
So
this
is
part
of
the
problem
with
dealing
with
the
federal
government.
G
You
know
we
we
want
to
have
these
rules
of
engagement
and
and
where
we
can,
we
can
work
together
to
try
to
have
a
respectful
and
professional
relationship,
and
yet
we
get.
We
get
surprises
like
that.
We're
we're
not
we're
unable
to
to
be
able
to
Express
Alberta's
views
and
positions
and
allow
industry
to
be
able
to
say
whether
or
not
this
is.
This
is
possible.
Once
again,
you
know
when
we
set
ourselves.
G
D
So
what
feedback
have
we
been
able
to
provide
to
the
federal
government
and
I
guess?
A
couple
of
a
couple
particular
issues
there
are:
are
the
feds
going
to
help
at
all
with
some
of
the
costs
of
that?
Do
you
think,
are
carbon
offsets
going
to
be
allowed
to
fit
into
the
equations
of
how
that's
ultimately
calculated?
D
G
Come
I
will
come
by
for
that,
because
there
is
there's
something
there's
a
point
that
I
wanted
to
bring
up
with
the
previous
I've
written
some
notes:
Aaron
couldn't
read
them,
but
at
it's
zero
week
in
Houston,
you
know,
I
I
participated
in
in
a
round
table
and
the
the
name
of
the
panel
was
capturing
methane
and
flaring
gas
and
and
I
can
tell
you
that
sitting
around
this
table
with
jurisdictions
all
around
the
world.
We
are
absolutely.
We
are
light
years
ahead
of
the
rest
of
the
world.
G
They
were
unwilling
to
make
that
investment,
but
here
in
Alberta,
I'd
like
to
meet
that
45
percent
barrier
I
think
that
we
we
were
probably
somewhere
in
the
order
of
700
million
to
a
billion
dollar
investment
by
by
our
industry,
I
mean
it's
pretty
amazing.
The
the
amount
of
work
that
that's
going
on
and
the
commitment
that
we
are
getting
from
from
our
industry,
the
other
thing
that
was
brought
up
during
that
which
I
I
quite
liked
and
other
members
of
the
the
panel
didn't.
G
A
G
Other
side
of
it
yeah
and
then
from
perspective
of
municipal
waste,
so
we
take
our
our
waste.
We
bury
it
in
the
ground.
We
cover
it
over
and
we
just
say:
oh
hey,
nothing
to
you
know
nothing
to
see
here
and
and
walk
away
when
really
our
in
Canada
we're,
probably
somewhere
between
20
and
30
percent
of
our
methane
gas
is
coming
from
municipal
waste.
G
Now
to
to
your
other
questions,
yeah,
Alberta,
environment
and
protected
areas
is
the
lead
on
the
the
government
for
the
clean
fuel
regulation.
The
department
continues
to
provide
support
on
CFR
and
discussions
with
the
federal
government
and
Alberta
continued
to
provide
feedback
as
additional
engagement
opened
in
2021,
relating
to
accrediting
treatment
of
cogeneration,
carbon
capture
and
storage,
low
carbon
intensity,
electricity
and
enhanced
oil
recovery.
I
know
the
environment
and
climate
change.
G
Canada
ECCC
has
made
a
number
of
changes
to
the
CFR
over
the
years
as
a
response
to
Alberta's
feedback
and
stakeholder
concerns,
and
these
include
there
are
included
in
their
decisions
to
withdraw
its
commitments
to
develop
regulations
for
gaseous
and
solid
fuels
and
subsequently
to
further
reduce
the
scope
of
gasoline
and
diesels,
as
opposed
to
all
other
liquid
fuels.
The
exclusion
of
grid
connected
Renewables
as
an
eligible
compliance
pathway,
which
protects
the
integrity
and
stability
of
Alberta's,
regulated
and
competitive
electricity
generation.
G
Market
Alberta
has
continued
to
press
the
federal
government
for
additional
opportunities
to
provide
comments
and
input
for
a
more
effective
and
efficient
regulation
and
Alberta
remains
concerned,
with
the
impacts
to
low-income
households
and
potential
for
lost
Revenue.
The
federal
government's
decision
to
exclude
export
crude
oil
and
finish
products
from
credit
opportunities,
increasing
costs
and
compliance
burden
for
the
energy
sector,
the
potential
transfer
of
investment
and
capital
from
Alberta
to
other
jurisdictions
and
the
lacks
of
flexibility
associated
with
CFR
credits.
G
And
when
you
you
look
at
what
the
the
threads
the
the
feds
are
doing
here,
really
it
in.
In
my
view,
it's
basically
just
increasing
the
cost,
just
continue
to
increase
the
cost
where,
wherever
you
can
in
order
to
make
life
miserable
for
the
fossil
fuel
industry
and
I
think
that
this
is
just
another
one
of
these
things
that
not
only
makes
life
miserable
for
the
fossil
fuel
industry,
but
it
does
for
everyone
in
a
time
when
we
have
6.7
percent
inflation
to
be
introducing
another
carbon
tax.
You
know
this.
D
Yeah
any
thoughts
on
one
last
piece
here
with
regards
to
this,
the
Canadian
government
has
taken
a
negative,
punishing
approach.
I
I
think
that
the
biggest
challenge
they're
going
to
face
moving
forward
is
that
the
Biden
Administration
has
taken
a
positive
incentive
approach
that
that's
going
to
draw
investment
and
support,
and
technology
and
development
there
and
and
I
I.
Just
wonder
if
that's
not
going
to
force
the
federal
government
to
take
another
look
at
at
their
whole
philosophical
approach.
G
And
we
were
talking
earlier
about
the
the
international
pressure
that
the
federal
government
is
feeling,
but
the
IRA
is
definitely
applying
the
screws.
I
would
expect
that
that
we
are
going
to
see
I
I,
don't
know
what
shape
it's
going
to
look
like,
but
I
do
expect
that
they're
going
to
put
forward
in
an
investment
tax
credit
and
firm
up
the
details
of
that.
Otherwise
we
will
have
a
flight
of
capital.
G
As
you
know
what
actually,
when
we
were
touring
overseas,
we
we
there
was
a
company
that
was
right
in
the
processes
of
trying
to
figure
out.
Should
we
locate
in
Edmonton
or
should
we
locate
in
Houston,
and
one
of
the
things
that
we
were
doing
was
trying
to
convince
them
about
Alberta
and
convincing
us
the
the
reasons
why
they
need
to
stay
here
and
one
of
the
things
that
they
pointed
to
was
the
IRA.
G
D
D
B
B
B
B
B
I
D
I
And
so
what
I
have
had
proposed
in
the
private
members
bill
is
that
we
built
you
know.
Tax
incentives
right
to
you
know,
promote
that
kind
of
industry
and
I.
Think
that
it's
it's,
you
know
using
tax
credits
right
which
of
course
compels
the
investment
to
under
certain
constraints,
so
that
would
be
built
in
and
contained
in
the
province
of
Alberta
and
in
fact,
employ
albertans
and
build
Alberta
economy
right.
I
So
I'm
just
curious
to
know
if
you,
in
con,
together
with
the
Ministry
of
Finance,
have
looked
for
other
ways
or
this
way
to
help
to
develop
ancillary
industry
that
could
be
associated
with
carbon
capture
and
storage,
because
I
mean
we've
come
a
long
way
in
regards
to
carbon
capture
and
sequestration.
Where,
but
I
think
you
know
the
next
step
in
the
next
way
again
to
sell
the
leadership
that
we
have
here
in
our
Province
for
conventional
oil
and
gas
is
to
attach
to
the
storage
moniker
industry
as
well.
I
I
Right
again.
If
we
have
a
proactive
and
honest
and
forthright
approach
to
these
things
that
helps
us
to
sell
our
conventional
oil
and
gas
assets
and
Industry
to
the
rest
of
the
country
and
indeed
to
the
rest
of
the
world
as
well.
So
you
know,
based
on
that
I'm,
just
curious
to
know.
If
you
have
examined
I,
believe
you
do
have
a
a
an
official
here
from
the
Ministry.
D
I
You're,
not
oh
okay,
sorry
I'm,
sorry,
man,
I'm
misunderstood,
but
of
course
you
said
the
same
table
as
financed
when
you
do
a
cabinet,
and
you
can
talk
about
how
you
can
build
tax
credits
for
Associated
industries
that
can
be
used
in
our
and
conventional
oil
and
gas
Industries.
Looking
for
ways
to
use
the
carbon
that
we're
capturing
to
reduce
the
carbon
footprint
as
many
of
our
Industries
have
endeavored.
To
do
so,
I
mean
it's
interesting
to
watch
the
oil
sense.
I
In
fact,
you
gauge
in
this
process
and
set
an
ambitious
Target
for
neutrality
by
2050..
Many
other
major
oil
and
gas
companies
already
understand
the
utility
of
this
in
the
world
that
we're
living
and
I
can't
think
of
a
better
way
than
to,
in
fact
encourage
using
tax
credits
to
develop
those
Industries
along
the
way,
rather
than
just
tax
cuts.
G
Yeah
thanks,
you
know
on
your
first
point
there
with
your
introduction
of
your
private
member's
bill.
Was
it
yeah,
yeah,
I,
I,
guess
I'd
have?
Maybe
we
could
sit
down
and
have
a
chat
as
to
what
what
you
mean
there
and
what
you're
talking
about
I
would
probably
just
need
a
little
bit
more
detail,
but
you
know
I'm
certainly
interested
to
to
hear
and
and
to
learn
a
little
bit
more
about
it.
That
would
yeah
as
far
as
other
areas
that
we're
looking
at
from
CCS
perspective.
G
You
know
the
government
does
recognize
the
value
of
ccs
and
what
it
brings
to
Alberta
and
their
critical
role
it
will
play
in
enabling
hydrogen
development
as
an
example.
Firstly,
energy
engaged
with
stakeholders
on
the
development
of
hydrogen
roadmap,
including
the
importance
of
ccs
and
its
role
to
clean
hydrogen
production,
and
these
stakeholders
include
industry,
Academia
and
non-governmental
organizations.
Secondly,
the
government
of
Alberta
announced
the
apip
program
to
accelerate
Investments.
As
a
result,
apip
encourages
the
use
of
CCS.
G
Guess
another
area
that
that
we've
been
looking
at
or
that
one
that
has
expressed
a
lot
of
interest
is
the
the
cement
industry.
They.
They
are
big
proponents
and
Heidelberg
in
Germany,
which
is
I,
think
Lehigh
here,
they're
planning
on
being
the
first
having
their
first
facility.
The
prefer
be
the
first
one
in
the
world
to
to
be
Net,
Zero
and
use
carbon
capture
to
do
it.
G
In
fact,
I
I
didn't
want
to
send
them
out,
but
they're
the
ones
that
are
going
to
be
shipping
it
to
Norway,
as
they
have
a
facility
in
in
Germany,
and
they
have
no
other
way
to
to
move
the
product.
So
they've
got
it
they're
committed
to
doing
it
and
and
I
admire
them
for
for
their
willingness
to
to
do
so.
G
As
far
as
the
orphan
well
Association
is
concerned,
orphan
wall
Association
plays
an
important
role
in
the
liability
management
flame
framework
by
cleaning
up
Wells
or
sites
that
do
not
have
a
viable
responsible
owner
in
the
government
of
Alberta
continues
to
collaborate
with
the
orphan
well
Association,
which
has
been
doing
more
work
than
ever
to
to
clean
up
sites
for
more
than
20
years.
The
orphan
well
Association
as
being
a
maiden
Alberta
solution
to
a
problem
facing
every
energy
producing
jurisdiction.
G
The
owa
plays
an
important
role
by
cleaning
up
Wells
or
sites
that
do
not
have
a
viable
or
responsible
owner,
and
the
odwa
is
funded
by
industry
through
an
annual
orphan,
well
Levy
in
his
critical
feature
of
Alberta's
liability
management
system.
In
fact,
Drew
is
not
here,
but
Drew
had
asked
about
that.
G
There
was
some
funding
increase
within
the
owa
and
that's
he
was
trying
to
imply
that
it
may
not.
It
was
maybe
government
moving
money
and
there
was
something
hidden
agenda
there,
but
this
this
is
it's
all
industry
Levy
in
recent
years,
government,
the
Alberta
energy
regulator,
landlords
indigenous
communities
and
Industry
have
worked
together
to
strengthen
owa's
ability
to
manage
and
mitigate
the
risks
of
a
growing
orphan
inventory
and
over
the
past
few
years
the
owa
has
decommissioned
more
Wells
and
completed
more
regulation
projects
than
any
other
period
in
its
history.
E
Excellent,
thank
you,
chair
and
through
to
the
minister
back
and
forth
is
good
for
our
time.
Excellent.
Thank
you,
Minister.
First,
just
before
I
begin,
I
I
would
just
like
to
thank
you
Minister
for
your
advocacy,
as
well
as
your
hard-working
staff
that
continue
to
ensure
that
Alberta
Remains,
the
leader
in
environment,
our
environmental
and
ethical
energy
production
in
the
world.
I
E
Would
just
I
got
three
questions
in
relation
to
this?
First,
how
do
you
think
the
war
has
impacted
the
outlook
for
energy
transitions
on
a
global
scale?
Secondly,
could
you
be
more
specific
on
how
the
war
is
impacting
Alberta
and
what
does
that
mean
for
the
future
of
Alberta's
energy
sector
sector?
And,
lastly,
how
will
the
ministry
help
Alberta
be
a
part
of
Europe's
Energy
Future,
as
well
as
help
to
lessen
Europe's
Reliance
on
Russian
energy.
G
G
Russia's
unprovoked
invasion
of
you,
Kane
had
a
dramatic
impact
on
the
global
Energy
System
and
Russia
was
the
world's
largest
and
natural
gas
exporter
in
in
2021,
and
energy
markets
have
been
thrown
into
turmoil,
leading
to
price
volatility,
supplies
or
shortages,
security
issues
and
economic
uncertainty
worldwide.
And
so
you
know
when
we,
you
know
we
look
at
the
pandemic
of
the
last
two
and
a
half
years
in
these
geopolitical
events.
G
It
really
shows
the
errors
of
our
ways
for
the
Outsourcing
that
we've
done
for
decades,
and
then
it
shows
how
one
country
can
weaponize
their
resources
and
our
you
know
our
trip
to
Norway.
We
heard
endlessly
about
energy
security
and
reliability
as
well
as
affordability
and
the
desire
to
do
business
with
Canada
to
to
help
them
with
that.
E
Excellent,
thank
you
for
that
answer.
Just
sticking
on
the
topic
of
energy
security
as
well
on
page
41,
key
objective,
one
one
of
the
business
plan.
It
states
that
the
ministry
plans
to
engage
with
the
U.S
and
other
Global
Partners
in
establishing
Alberta
as
a
reliable
partner
in
supporting
North,
American
and
Global
energies.
So
could
you
be
a
little
bit
more
specific
in
explaining
what
the
ministry
hopes
to
achieve
through
this
and
as
well?
Additionally,
what
opportunities
do
you
see
for
Alberta,
post,
Keystone,
XL.
G
Yeah
sure
so
the
department
of
U.S
engagement
strategy
is
firmly
establishing
Alberta
as
an
integral
part
in
supporting
North,
America
and
Global
energy
security.
We
continue
to
pursue
this
goal
through
sustained
and
coordinated
engagement
with
U.S
officials
and
decision
makers
to
build
and
expand
stakeholder
relationships
and
identify
areas
of
collaboration.
G
That
I
think
can
can
pay
dividends
for
us
in
that
relationship,
but
also
in
helping
us
to
build
our
relationship
with
our
federal
government
as
they
have
their
own
relationships
so
yeah
anyway,
just
as
an
example
of
the
kind
of
work
that
we're
doing
we're
focused
on
engagements
which
provide
an
opportunity
for
Alberta
to
share
and
promote
its
extensive
expertise
in
areas
Beyond
oil
and
natural
gas
production,
including
methane
reduction,
carbon
capture,
utilization
storage,
hydrogen
development
and
critical
minerals
and
looking
forward.
Our
engagement
strategy
is
intended
to
achieve
the
following
outcomes.
G
So
elected
officials
and
decision
makers
in
the
U.S
understand
the
importance
of
Alberta's
energy
needs.
Key
jurisdictions,
recognize
and
promote
the
value
of
Alberta's
resources,
energy
and
environmental
policies.
Other
jurisdictions
look
at
Alberta
for
our
expertise
and
our
knowledge
and
reinforcing
Alberta's
position
as
a
key
part
of
maintaining
a
secure
and
ethical,
reliable
Supply.
G
So,
to
your
question
about
you
know:
opportunities
Beyond,
post
kxl,
you
know
we
all
have
been
and
always
will
play
a
leadership
role
in
expanding
and
advocating
for
for
greater
access
and
Alberta.
Has
the
the
resource
base
to
increase
production
in
the
next
three
to
five
years?
If
additional
pipeline
capacity
comes
available,
energy
producers
have
significant
commitments
and
I
think
as
I
was
talking
about
earlier
there
with
with
Drew
on
Pipeline
capacity.
We
are
that
we
are
close.
G
You
know
we're
within
that
say,
10
range
of
hitting
our
Max
right
now.
That's
that's
a
little
close
for
comfort,
but
we
can.
We
can
get
through
until
TMX
comes
on,
and
that
gives
us
an
opportunity
to
to
move
South
down
the
coast,
but
also
to
to
Asia
with
another
590
000
barrels
and
there's
optimizations
that
are
being
done
with
with
Enbridge
and
others
in
order
to
be
able
to
expand
capacity.
G
So
I
think
we,
we
do
have
some
opportunity
in
the
next
one
to
three
to
well,
let's
say
five
years
to
expand
that
out.
So
there's
plenty
of
opportunity
for
Alberta
to
to
expand
the
possibility
of
immediately
displacing
Russian
crude.
You
know
with
Alberta
crude
obviously,
is
quite
limited
due
to
a
variety
of
factors,
but
you
know
we're
we're
working
on
it.
G
That's
it's
one
of
the
reasons
why
Germany
came
to
Canada
first,
because
they
know
that
we
have
the
highest
level
of
of
environmental
standards
and
that
we
have
a
concern
for
civil
and
human
rights
that
we
have
a
really
strong
regulatory
system
here
and
and
I
keep
bringing
it
up
at
that
level
of
trust
that
Canada
has
so,
but
as
as
in
a
as
a
government
they're.
One
of
the
things
that
we're
going
to
be
introducing
shortly
is
something
we're
calling
our
North
American.
G
G
So
one
of
the
things
we
want
to
do
is
go
out
to
other
provinces
and
states
and
and
just
formalize,
an
agreement
amongst
all
of
us
that
that
we're
going
to
try
to
do
that
first
with
critical
minerals
with
sourcing
whatever
products
that
there
are,
but
primarily
for
us.
Our
interest.
Is
this
energy,
of
course.
B
K
I
think
the
other
thing
I
like
to
return
to
is
a
discussion
of
what
do
we
call
it
concept
for
royalty
credit
program,
the
whatever
our
star
has
been
renamed
to
I'm
curious?
Why
that
isn't
in
the
budget,
because
it
would
be
I
mean
whether
you
call
it
Revenue
offset
or
actual
expenditure.
It's
it's
money,
that's
being
spent.
My
understanding
is,
the
pilot
is
intended
to
be
for
100
million
dollars.
B
If
you
don't
mind
the
interrupt,
you
mentioned
the
fact
that
this
item
is
not
in
the
budget,
yet
you've
questioned
it
numerous
times.
I'd
suggest
that,
maybe
we,
if
you
want
to
get
answers
out
of
the
minister
in
regards
to
budget
items
for
the
2024
fiscal
year,
that
we
stick
to
items
that
are
actually
in
the
budget
rather
than
speculating
on
there's
lots
of
things
that
aren't
in
the
budget
that
we
could
spend
the
whole
days.
K
Yeah
and
I
think
I
think
Mr
chair
the
purpose
of
this
time
to
advance
the
interests
of
albertans
and
how
their
money
is
being
spent.
The
government
has
made
an
announcement
that
this
money
will
be
spent,
so
I
think
that
the
fact
that
it's
not
in
the
budget
is
of
significant
concern,
at
least
to
my
constituents
and
in
my
experience,
people
across
the
province
and
I
think
I
mean
this.
Is
it
does
tie
to
the
ministry
business
plan
quite
easily?
You're
welcome
to
continue
I,
just
so
I'm
just
I'm
curious.
K
K
You
know
what
amount
that
is
intended
to
be
and
I
think
in
light
of
the
fact
that
we're
spending
money
here
in
light
of
the
fact
that
the
government
has,
as
stated
objectives
the
Reclamation
of
of
well
sites,
I'd
like
to
know
how
the
minister
thinks
that's
going
to
have
an
impact
on
what
the
sort
of
relative
costs
will
be,
because
normally
industry
would
clean
up
their
own.
Their
own
well
liabilities
they'd
be
expected.
K
It's
part
of
their
drilling
license
and
in
an
instance
that
they
don't
rather
than
taking
sort
of
a
a
bond
or
some
sort
of
insurance
out.
The
The
Way
We
have
dealt
with
that
here
in
Alberta,
is
by
having
the
orphan
well
Association,
and
everyone
pays
into
it
and
so
I'm
a
little
curious,
because
I
mean
this
project
is
very
I,
would
say
different
in
type
than
say.
K
You
know
the
money
coming
from
the
federal
government,
which
I
mean
it
came
in
a
time
when
prices
were
record
lows:
people
in
The,
Province,
weren't
working.
It
was
intended
to
sort
of
generate
employment
right,
whereas
this
you
know,
we
have
prices
in
an
all-time
high.
The
incentives
are
kind
of
perversely
set
up
in
such
a
way
that
the
higher
the
price
is
the
higher
the
incentive
is,
which
is
normally.
G
For
the
eec
on
the
breakdown
on
industry
advocacy
expenses
in
budget
2023,
industry
advocacy
funding
was
27
million.
The
CEC
makes
up
12
million
of
this
27
million,
while
the
remaining
15
million
remains
with
Alberta
energy.
The
12
million
under
the
CEC
will
cover
campaigns
in
Canada,
the
U.S
Europe
and
LNG
campaign
and
other
program
expenses.
The
remaining
15
million
in
advocacy
funding,
has
been
allocated
for
future
campaigns
and
activities
that
would
help
effectively
respond
to
misinformation
about
Alberta's
energy
industry.
G
I
do
have
information
on
further
metrics
if
you
wish
to
get
that,
but,
as
you
know,
I
can
deal
with
the
topic
of
liability
management
incentive
program,
which
is
what
it's
called
or
it
may
be
called
so
you're
asking
about
why
it's
not
in
the
budget-
and
you
know
really
the
reason
it's
it's
not
in
the
budget
is
it.
It
hasn't
even
gone
through
all
of
the
the
vetting
process
within
the
department.
Yet
so
it
hasn't.
We
still
have
not
completed
consultation.
G
Then
we
have
to
bring
in
all
the
information
that
we
receive
from
that
and
there's
thus
far,
there's
been
a
tremendous
amount
of
of
input
and
it's
been
excellent.
The
the
the
engagement,
so
we
have
a
something
that
hasn't
even
left
the
department
we
haven't
had
a
caucus
input
firmly
because
we
don't
have
a
program.
That's
that's,
that's
formed.
It
hasn't
gone
to
committee,
it
hasn't
gone
to
treasury
board
and
it
hasn't
gone
to
cabinets.
G
So
this
this
is
something
that
you
know
I'm
looking
at
it
now,
I
I
can't
see
it
even
being
put
forward
before
the
fall
of
next
year.
So
that's
that's.
Why
you
don't
see
it
in
the
budget
and
and
it
has
to
First
even
get
out
of
the
department
before
before
it
makes
it
down
that
chain
that
that
I
just
put
out
there?
G
Now
you
were
talking
earlier
about
the
mandatory
while
you
were
yeah,
you
were
talking
about
the
spend,
and
so
the
this
program
has
been.
The
expectation
is
to
be
above
and
beyond
the
mandatory
spend
and
in
2022
I
I
think
the
figure
was
422
million
that
the
industry
had
to
spend
on
its
liabilities
that
went
up
to
700
million
in
2023,
and
so
what
we're
talking
about
here
in
this
program
would
be
going
beyond
that.
G
Now,
when
you
were
asking
there
earlier
about
return
on
investment,
I
think
you
had
said
something
about
about
that
and
about.
Is
there
a
return
for
for
albertans
in
here
and
and
I
agree
like
I
I
would
like
to
see
a
positive
return
on
investment
for
this
program
and
I
think
if
I
brought
this
towards
treasury
board
and
I
wasn't
able
to
show
some
sort
of
positive
return
for
the
province,
I
I
think
I
would
get
laughed
out
of
the
room.
E
E
Of
course,
I
I
really
appreciate
the
comments
you
made
regarding
pipelines
where
we're
at
on
pipeline
capacity,
as
well
as
the
need
for
pipelines
and
and
how
important
they
are,
and
also
that
they're
the
safest
way
for
moving
oil
period
as
far
as
I'm
concerned,
so
based
on
the
fact
that
the
regulatory
regime
has
become
almost
unnavigated
like
it's,
you
can't
even
navigate
it
with
c69.
My
understanding
is
not
one
pipeline
project
has
gone
through
since
past
I
see
a
lot
of
great
conversations
now
about
in
a
better
pathway.
E
Ford
is
to
talk
about
economic
corridors
and
what
that
means
and
how
we
can
move
those
forward.
So
your
key
objective
again,
one
one
States
how
the
ministry
will
Advocate
and
support
pipelines
and
infrastructure
to
access
new
markets
and,
of
course,
as
I
mentioned,
to
enhance
energy
security.
So
my
question
is
a
two-part
question.
What
role
will
economic
quarters
play
in
enhancing
Alberta's
Market
access,
both
domestically
and
internationally,
and
what
initiatives
will
the
ministry
undertake
to
advance
them?
G
So
first
maybe
what
I'll
do
is
is
give
you
a
little
bit
of
update
we're
talking
about
pipeline.
There
give
you
an
update,
maybe
on
Trans
Mountain
it.
You
know
there
was
some
activity
around
that
last
week,
but
Trans
Mountain
expansion
is
nearing
completion
and
mechanical
police
completion
is
expected
in
the
fourth
quarter
of
this
year,
with
product
anticipated
to
be
flowing
by
early
2024.
G
This
pipeline
will
result
in
in
billions
in
economic
prosperity
for
Canadians
albertans,
and
it's
really
excited
for
the
prospects
really
continues
to
support
the
operation
of
Enbridge
line
five
as
well.
In
addition
to
the
proposed
cruised
optimization
projects
in
Canada
and
the
U.S,
we
could
add
incremental
capacity
to
these
existing
pipelines.
As
we
were
discussing
earlier
on
the
economic
corridors,
perspective
and
I.
Think,
as
you
know,
you
probably
saw
that
the
TMX
dollar
value
went
up
to
30.9
billion
Hefty
price
tag,
but
I
am
one
of
the
things
that
I'm
happy
to
see.
G
Is
that
there's
a
commitment
there
to
get
this
completed?
And
that's
that's
the
main
thing
here
and
now,
as
far
as
economic
corridors
Alberta's
very
supportive
of
of
any
additional
Market
access,
including
export
opportunities
via
economic
corridors.
This
is
especially
important
given
the
global
energy
security
and
affordability
crisis,
and
we
welcome
any
opportunity
to
support
Transportation
economic
corridors
in
in
moving
this
and
advancing
the
discussion
and
I
was
on
the
advisory
or
I
am
on
the
current
Advisory
Board
and
previously
with
MLA
Shane
gutson
at
the
lead.
G
But
one
of
the
things
we
want
to
be
doing
is
ensuring
that
the
Canadian
Supply
chains
are
resilient
and
fluid,
and-
and
this
is
a
priority
for
us,
oil
and
gas
Alternatives
such
as
hydrogen
and
critical
minerals
and
others.
Other
materials
Transit
around
the
world
in
various
stages
of
production,
on
Canadian
Transportation
networks
and
a
significant
portion
of
which,
on
pipelines
and
rail,
that
interface
with
Trucking
and
and
Marine
modes.
G
Obviously
taking
a
long-term
view
to
this,
and
it's
a
key
strategy
in
building
the
case
for
economic
corridors,
including
the
the
work
that's
being
led
by
by
that
department,
but
also
by
the
by
the
premier.
She
has
been
she's
been
working
hard
at
this
and
talking
about
it
pretty
much
at
at
every
industry,
meeting
that
I've
ever
been
with
her
at.
E
F
F
G
Well,
natural
gas
from
Alberta
can
and
should
be
deployed
as
a
solution
to
Global
decarbonization
access
to
global
market
Alberta's
natural
gas
is
converted
to
liquefied
natural
gas
and
it's
shipped
overseas,
where
it
can
replace
coal-fired
electricity
production.
Now
there
is,
you
know
one
thing
that
you
know.
We
know
that
LNG
has
been
a
major
topic
of
discussion.
It
has
been
around
the
world
and
countries,
look
to
Canada
and
have
looked
to
Canada
for
for
help
and
Alberta
for
our
most
convenient
location
that
move
product
is
to
the
West.
G
We
know
that
and
it's
not
easy
to
move
products
there,
but
I
like
to
you
know
actually
read
to
you
an
excerpt
from
from
an
article
from
Premier
Abby
yesterday
and
because
it's
it
really
may
change
the
landscape
of
the
future
of
moving
our
product
and
British.
Columbia
government
says
it's
rolling
out
a
new
framework
for
approving
oil
and
gas
projects
that
will
ensure
the
profits
meets
its
emission
Targets
in
the
coming
decades
and
Premier
David
Evy,
said
Tuesday.
G
The
framework
will
require
new
liquefied
natural
gas
facilities
to
have
a
credible
plan
for
net
zero
emissions
by
2030,
and
there
will
be
an
emissions
cap
on
industry.
Abby
said
his
government
will
establish
a
major
projects
and
clean
energy
office
to
fast-track
proposals
that
use
clean,
Technologies
and
create
jobs.
Now,
environment,
Minister,
George
Heyman
said
that
the
new
framework
ensures
industry
is
under
strong
emissions
reductions
requirements
while
allowing
it
to
seize
upon
opportunities
to
use
emerging.
G
Globe
and
Mark
markets
have
rapidly
changed
over
the
last
couple
of
years
and
the
urgency
over
low
carbon,
a
low-carbon
economy
we
need
to
build,
has
only
grown,
so
our
tensions
is
to
leverage
our
clean
electricity
and
supercharge
BC's
economy
and
open
new
opportunities
for
business
and
job
growth
in
the
future,
which
sounds
awfully
familiar
to
the
kinds
of
things
that
we're
talking
about
right
here
at
homes.
I
I
find
that
interesting.
K
Thank
you
very
much,
so
I
think
I'll
start
just
circling
back
to
2.3,
which
is
the
CEC
I
appreciate
the
answer
with
respect
to
the
breakdown
for
next
year,
just
for
the
fiscal
which
is
just
ending
so
the
one
for
which
we
have
a
forecast
and
no
actual,
but
I
mean
we're
two
weeks
from
the
end
of
the
year.
So,
presumably
the
forecast
is
pretty
close,
the
15
million
dollars.
K
K
Just
because
I
understand
you
know
you
sort
of
told
us
what
what
the
refinery
is
producing,
which
is
helpful.
Thank
you,
I'm
just
interested,
so
the
the
government
paid
a
significant
amount
of
money
to
sort
of
wind
up
becoming
co-owners
of
that
project,
I'm
just
curious
sort
of
what
how
much
of
that
has
been
paid
off
at
this
point
and
whether
the
sort
of
increase
in
tolling
payments
like
when
you
expect
that
to
to
to
be
paid
off
and
to
be
returned
to
the
taxpayer.
K
K
Oops
sorry
wrong
page,
oh
yeah
I
was
curious
as
well.
We
know
at
this
point
that
carbon
trunk
line
continues
to
be
like
it's
not
at
capacity
and
that
feeds
obviously
into
the
enhance
project
which
is
eor
that
isn't
eligible
for
any
sort
of
rebates
under
the
federal
like
they've
excluded,
eor
and
I'm,
just
wondering
if
the
Alberta
Government
has
sort
of
any
plans
to
ensure
utilization
of
that
that
piece
of
equipment
I
think
it's
a
a
good
project.
K
I
think
it
has
the
potential
to
be
beneficial
for
albertans
and
so
I'm
I'm
curious,
yeah.
How
it
is
we're
preceding
forward
on
that
I
was
yeah.
It
was
interesting
to
hear
the
developments
on
LNG
I.
Think
that's
interesting.
I'd
also
be
I,
recognize
that
you're
probably
not
going
to
have
time
to
get
through.
K
Do
we,
in
the
your
opinion,
the
Department's
opinion
like
do
we
have
enough
Transportation
pipeline
infrastructure,
or
do
we
need
to
be
need
to
be
looking
to
to
to
get
more
Market
access
with
respect
to
that
and
I
think
I'll
leave
it
there,
because
you're,
probably
gonna
have
a
hard
time
getting
through.
Even
those
things.
G
I
guess
just
real
quickly
on
that
LNG
side
of
things
as
I
was
mentioning
earlier.
There's
a
lot
of
product
that
flows
from
BC
this
way,
so
I
I
we
do
have
availability
they're,
certainly
would
be
some
pipeline.
That
would
be
required,
I
think
with
interconnections,
and
that
kind
of
thing
to
you
know
make
it
more
efficient.
But
where
there's
a
will
there's
a
way
and
I
think
we
can
get
it
done
on
the
ER
side
of
things?
That's
a
good
question.
G
G
There
we're
we're
still
exploring
all
possibilities
on
that
methane
that
Fleet
question
I,
don't
have
an
answer
for
you
that
environments
is
handling
that
side
of
it
so
yeah,
unfortunately,
I
don't
have
it
going
to
sturgeon
we're
running
through
them
quickly
here
we'll
let
Deputy
Minister
Sprague.
Take
that.
C
Thank
you
Minister
and
thank
you
Mr,
chair
for
the
record.
It's
Grant
Springfield,
minister
of
energy,
thanks
for
the
question
with
respect
to
the
sturgeon
Refinery,
substantial
efforts
have
been
taken
since
the
optimization
to
put
in
place
a
new
operator
for
the
facility
and
I'm
pleased
to
report
that
we
are
seeing
excellent
performance
by
the
refinery
itself
in
terms
of
its
operations.
There's
been
a
number
of
key
issues.
C
G
Yeah,
okay,
so
what
I
thought?
What
I
might
do
here
is
hit
on
a
few
of
the
advocacy
campaigns
with
the
CEC
and
then
kind
of
what
sort
of
metrics
we
have
with
it,
and
then
the
budget.
First.
For
these
for
these
campaigns
in
Canada,
there
was
one
called
made
the
Canadian
way
and
the
CEC
started
this
program
June
6th
of
2022.
It
had
television
ads
and
digital
ads
to
promote
responsible
development
and
environmental
and
social
governance
principles
practiced
in
Canada.
G
It
was
primarily
focused
in
Ontario
and
British
Columbia,
and
there
was
a
campaign
website
made
the
Canadian
way.ca
that
had
over
1.2
million
visits,
the
telephone
Vision
advertisements
achieved
to
72.3
million
impressions,
while
digital
advertisements
achieved
37.2
million,
and
the
total
budget
for
this
campaign
was
10.4
million
dollars.
A
parallel
campaign
focused
on
Quebec
and
used
television
and
digital
advertising
as
well.
I
had
a
website
that
achieved
220
000
visits
and
some
TV
ads
that
were
at
14
million
and
46.7
million
impressions
respectively.
With
the
TV
and
digital
ads.
G
B
F
Minister,
sorry
to
that,
you
got
cut
off
on
the
excellent
ad
campaigns
that
were
done
by
CEC.
Some
of
them
were
really
fabulous
and
I.
Remember
the
first
time
I
heard
one
of
them,
the
made
in
Canada
when
I
was
I
was
I,
didn't
know
what
it
was
when
I
first
started
listening
to
it
and
I
was
really
excited
about
it
so
very
quickly,
because
we're
down
to
the
very
last
10
minutes
here
on
LNG
infrastructure,
you've
talked
a
bunch
about
it
tonight.
All
I
want
is
a
real,
quick
answer.
G
G
These
obviously
have
major
influencing
Factor
as
far
as
our
production
here
in
Alberta
and
then
there's
there's
interest
by
a
couple
of
parties
in
in
Hudson's
Bay,
but
those
would
be
a
longer
term
projects.
You
know
I
and
I
can
say
you
know,
there's
there's
lots
of
conversations
going
on
minister
to
minister
and
Premier
to
Premier
to
to
advance
the
cause,
and
you
know
these
discussions
I
think
are-
are
really
paying
dividends.
G
F
G
This
article
here
says
B
from
CTV
News
BC
approves
3.2
billion
dollar
Cedar
LNG
project
and
I
and
I
wanted
to
read
this
one,
because
this
one
is
quite
interesting.
The
approved
Cedar
LNG
project,
which
is
estimated
3.2
billion,
is
an
electrified
floating
export
facility
in
kitimath,
that's
being
developed
by
the
Heisler
nation
in
partnership
with
pemina
pipeline
Corporation
and
has
been
described
as
the
first
LNG
export
facility
in
Canada.
That's
majority
indigenous
owned.
G
G
F
F
One
of
them,
I'm
gonna,
say
actually
is-
is
the
apip
project
air
product,
so
maybe
just
for
those
viewing
at
home.
You
can
very
quickly
run
through
when
it's
gonna
start
producing
hydrogen.
What
other
petrochem
products
it's
going
to
produce
where
those
products
What
markets,
those
products
are
going
to
go
to
and
what
that
economic
impact
is
going
to
have
for
the
Edmonton
area
and
the
Providence
as
a
whole.
G
Yeah
so
that
Air
Products
facility
stated
is
a
facility,
that's
going
to
come
online
in
2024.,
so
they
they
want
to
break
ground
here
as
soon
as
possible
this
year.
So
in
it,
as
mentioned,
is
going
to
have
carbon
capture
and
the
the
Imperial
deal
has
already
50
of
their
hydrogen
spoken
for
with
with
Imperial,
but
the
facility
world
primarily
produce
hydrogen
for
multiple
uses
such
as
imperial's
renewable
diesel
plant.
That's
a
700
million
dollar
plant
that
was
just
announced
a
couple
of
months
ago.
F
G
That
yeah
we
got
about
a
minute
left,
so
I'll
just
get
to
it:
real,
quick,
the
hydrogen
blending.
As
you
know,
they
were
doing
a
pilot
project,
I
think
about
1500
homes
in
in
Fort,
Saskatchewan
I.
They
had
maybe
made
it
to
about
six
or
seven
percent
I
think
their
intention
was
to
go
to
15,
even
as
even
higher,
but
CSA
came
back
and
CSA
stated
that
they
would
not
warranty
their
appliances
and
so
because
of
that
they
had
to
shut
down
that
pilot.
G
So
right
now
I
think
there's
some.
You
know
discussions
going
on
with
with
CSA
and
with
how
to
how
to
move
forward
with
this
now,
oh
I
I,
personally
I,
you
know
I
think
hydrogen
has
a
real
big
opportunity.
It's
a
big
opportunity
for
Alberta
and
this
blending
may
have
may
have
its
uses.
But
you
know
I.
B
Apologize
for
the
interruption,
but
I
must
advise
the
committee
that
the
time
allotted
for
consideration
the
ministry's
estimates
has
concluded
pursuant
to
standing
order
59.01-8
the
estimates
of
the
ministry
of
energy
are
deemed
to
have
been
considered
for
the
time
allotted
in
the
schedule.
This
also
concludes
the
consideration
of
the
2023-2024
main
estimates
by
the
standing
committee
on
the
resource
dealership
I'd
like
to
take
this
opportunity
to
thank
all
the
committee
members
for
29
hours
of
debates
over
a
six
day
period.