►
Description
Legislative Assembly of Alberta
A
A
A
B
B
B
Finance
for
the
fiscal
year
ending
March,
31st,
2024
I'd,
ask
that
we
go
around
the
table
and
have
members
introduce
themselves
for
the
record
Minister
when
we
get
to
you,
please
introduce
the
officials
who
are
joining
you
at
the
table.
My
name
is
David
Hansen
I'm,
the
MLA
for
Bonneville
Cold,
Lake,
St
Paul,
and
the
chair
of
this
committee
and
we'll
begin
starting
to
my
right.
B
E
B
Thank
you
I'd
like
to
note
the
following
substitutions
for
the
record
honorable
member
Pawn
for
member
turton
a
few
housekeeping
items
to
address
before
we
turn
to
the
business
at
hand.
Please
note
that
the
microphones
are
operated
by
Hansard
staff
committee.
Proceedings
are
live
streamed
on
the
internet
and
broadcast
on
Alberta
assembly
TV.
The
audio
and
video
stream
and
transcripts
of
meetings
can
be
accessed
via
the
Legislative
Assembly
website.
B
Members
participating
remotely
are
encouraged
to
turn
your
camera
on.
While
speaking
and
mute
your
microphone
when
not
speaking,
remote
participants
who
wish
to
be
placed
on
a
speaker's
list
are
asked
to
email
or
message
to
the
committee
Clerk
and
members
in
the
room
should
signal
to
the
chair.
Please
set
your
cell
phones
and
other
devices
to
silent
for
the
duration
of
the
meeting
honorable
members.
The
standing
order
set
out
the
process
for
consideration
of
the
main
estimates.
B
B
59.01-6
establishes
the
speaking
rotation
and
speaking
times
in
brief,
the
minister
or
member
of
executive
Council,
acting
on
The
Minister's
behalf
we'll
have
10
minutes
to
address
the
committee
at
the
conclusion
of
The
Minister's
comments.
A
60-minute
speaking
block
for
the
official
opposition
begins,
followed
by
a
20-minute
speaking
block
for
independent
members.
If
any
and
then
a
20-minute
speaking
block
for
the
government
caucus
individuals
may
only
speak
for
up
to
10
minutes
at
a
time,
but
speaking
times
may
be
combined
between
the
member
and
the
minister.
B
After
this
speaking
times
will
follow
the
same
rotation
of
the
official
opposition,
independent
member
and
government
caucus
the
member
and
the
minister
May
each
speak
once
for
a
maximum
of
five
minutes,
or
these
times
maybe
can
combined
making
it
a
10-minute
block.
If
members
have
any
questions
regarding
speaking
times
or
the
rotation,
please
send
an
email
or
message
to
the
committee
clerk
about
the
process
with
the
concurrence
of
the
committee,
I
will
call
a
five-minute
break
near
the
midpoint
of
the
meeting.
However,
the
three-hour
clock
will
continue
to
run.
B
Does
anyone
oppose
taking
a
break
saying
that
we
will
announce
that
shortly?
Just
before
we
take
the
break
Ministry
officials
may
be
present
and
at
the
discretion
of
the
direction
of
the
minister
May
address
the
committee
Ministry
officials,
seated
in
the
gallery
of
called
upon,
have
access
to
a
microphone
in
the
gallery
area
and
are
asked
to
please
introduce
themselves
for
the
record
prior
to
commenting
pages
are
available
to
deliver
notes
or
other
materials
between
the
gallery
and
the
table.
Attendees
in
the
gallery
may
not
approach
the
table.
B
B
If
debate
is
exhausted
prior
to
six
hours,
the
ministry's
estimates
are
deemed
to
have
been
considered
for
the
time
allotted
in
the
schedule,
and
the
committee
will
adjourn,
points
of
order
will
be
dealt
with
as
they
arise
in
individual
speaking
times
will
be
paused.
However,
the
speaking
block
time
and
the
overall
three-hour
meeting
clock
for
the
first
segment
of
the
six
hour
allotted
hours
will
continue
to
run
any
written
material
provided
in
response
to
questions
raised
during
the
main
estimate
should
be
tabled
by
the
minister
in
the
assembly
for
the
benefit
of
all
members.
B
The
vote
on
the
estimates
and
any
amendments
will
occur
in
Committee
of
Supply
on
March
16
2023.
amendments
must
be
in
writing
an
approved
bi-parliamentary
Council
prior
to
the
meeting
at
which
they
are
to
be
moved.
The
original
amendment
is
to
be
deposited
with
the
committee
clerk
with
20
hard
copies.
An
electronic
version
of
the
sign
original
should
be
provided
to
the
committee
clerk
for
distribution
to
committee
members.
D
D
Our
progress
has
really
been
a
result
of
a
two-fold
focus
number
one.
We
have
focused
on
positioning
The
Province
for
business
competitiveness.
We've
worked
to
improve
the
competitiveness
of
our
business
environment
and
ensure
that
we
are
attracting
investment
which
of
course,
results
in
economic
growth
and
expanded
fiscal
capacity
and
sure
we've
also
brought
physical
discipline
to
the
government
of
Alberta
over
the
last
four
years,
and
that
combination
has
resulted
in
great
progress
fiscally.
D
Firstly,
I
want
to
talk
a
little
about
a
bit
about
our
progress
that
we've
made
in
terms
of
business,
competitiveness
and
investment
attraction,
because
that's
a
big
part
of
our
story
chair,
we
didn't
just
put
out
the
open
for
business
sign
and
only
back
it
up
with
words.
We
backed
it
up
with
real
action.
D
We
reduced
taxes,
business
taxes
by
a
third,
our
corporate
tax
rate,
was
dropped
from
12
to
8
percent.
We
put
in
four
years
of
modernizing
our
regulatory
environment,
cutting
red
tape,
reducing
the
burden
on
albertans
and
Alberta
businesses.
We
focused
on
sectors
where
we
knew
we
were
naturally
competitive,
such
as
the
petrochemical
sector,
certainly
agriculture,
but
more
than
that
we
focused
on
Diversified
sectors
such
as
filament
television.
D
We
have
worked
hard
over
the
last
couple
of
years
to
expand
training
opportunities
for
albertans
who
need
to
reskill
or
who
want
to
ensure
that
they
have
the
experience
and
skill
set
to
pursue
a
career
in
a
in
an
economy.
That's
diversifying
at
significant
rates
and
chair.
We
also
made
significant
Investments
and
expanded
capacity
in
our
ability
to
sell
the
great
value
proposition
that
we
have
in
this
province
and
we've
done
much
of
that
work
through
invest,
Alberta
and
I
have
to
say
the
results
speak
for
themselves.
D
On
the
fiscal
discipline
side,
we
rolled
up
our
sleeves
and
got
to
work
in
budget
2019.
The
first
fiscal
plan
that
we
presented
on
behalf
of
albertans
early
on
WE,
identified
three
fiscal
anchors
anchors
that
would
guide
our
fiscal
decisions
over
this
time
number
one.
We
were
going
to
be
going
to
ensure
that
we
maintained
a
strong
balance
sheet.
Even
through
the
dark
days
of
cobit
and
the
big
energy
price
collapse
and
the
contraction
in
the
global
economy.
We
identify
that
we
would
keep
our
net
debt
to
GDP
ratio
below
30
percent
and
chair.
D
We
also
set
a
goal
of
aligning
our
costs
of
delivering
government
services
on
a
per
capita
basis
with
that
of
comparator
provinces,
the
average
of
Quebec
Ontario
and
British
Columbia,
because
back
in
2019
We
inherited
a
government
that
was
spending
10
billion
dollars
more
on
delivering
government
services
than
other
provinces,
and
yet
we
weren't
getting
better
results.
I
think
the
the
latter
part
of
that
sentence
is
the
most
difficult,
and
so
we
set
a
goal
to
over
time
carefully
and
thoughtfully
surgically
bring
our
costs
of
delivering
government
services
in
line
with
that
of
other
provinces.
D
We
also
identified
the
fact
that
we
were
going
to
balance
the
budget.
Of
course,
in
2019
we
laid
out
a
fiscal
plan
that
resulted
in
a
balanced
budget
in
year
four
and
then,
when
we
encountered
the
Triple
Black
Swan
event
in
early
2020.
at
that
point
in
time.
Of
course,
everything
changed
fiscally
our
revenues,
dried
up
costs
we're
going
through
the
roof
as
we
responded
to
a
pandemic
within
our
borders
and
the
economic
challenges
that
we
had
and
actually
at
that
time
it
was
very
difficult
because
there
were
weeks
when
we
couldn't
issue
bonds.
D
Those
were
difficult
days,
and
it
was
during
those
days
that
our
fiscal
anchors
were
incredibly
value,
valuable
to
our
government,
as
we
made
fiscal
decisions
with
a
lack
of
economic
Clarity.
But
during
that
time
we
identified
as
soon
as
we
had
economic
Clarity.
We
would
provide
a
path
and
a
timeline
to
balance.
D
So
as
we
clung
to
those
fiscal
anchors
and
looked
to
deliver
on
them,
we
did
make
great
progress.
Our
net
debt
to
GDP
ratio
is
projected
to
be
10.2
percent.
At
the
end
of
this
fiscal
year,
the
lowest
ratio
the
strongest
balance
sheet
of
any
province
in
the
country
by
far
as
of
2223.
So
that's
the
fiscal
year
that
we're
in
right
now,
not
next
year,
not
the
year
after,
but
this
year
we
will
have
aligned
our
per
capita
spending
with
that
of
comparative
provinces.
D
I
again
had
the
privilege
of
rising
in
the
house
on
February
28th
of
this
year
and
presenting
a
balanced
budget
through
all
three
years
of
the
fiscal
plan
that
balanced
budget
is
projecting
a
surplus
of
2.4
billion
in
the
upcoming
year,
2
billion
in
the
mid-year
and
1.4
billion
in
the
out
year,
and
we've
looked
again
to
build
on
the
competitiveness
of
our
business
environment.
Number
one
we're
maintaining
a
very
low
tax
cost
environment
in
Alberta.
D
In
fact,
right
now
in
Alberta
we
have
a
20
billion
dollar
tax
advantage
over
the
next
lowest
tax
jurisdiction,
which
happens
to
be
Ontario
in
this
country.
That's
a
massive
Advantage
for
albertans
for
Alberta
businesses
and
that
competitiveness
is
showing
in
the
amount
of
investment
that's
flowing
into
the
province.
We
don't
have
a
payroll
tax.
We
don't
have
a
sales
tax,
we
don't
have
a
health
care
Levy.
We
don't
have
a
land
transfer
tax,
we
don't
have
a
Capital
Tax.
D
D
We're
increasing
our
support
for
the
film
and
television
tax
credit
building
on
the
success
we've
had
over
the
last
three
years
and
we're
adding
to
our
investment
for
skills
and
training
so
that
every
employer
in
Alberta
can
find
the
staff
and
the
talent
the
capacity
they
need
to
grow
their
business
and
maybe,
more
importantly,
chair.
So
every
albertan
can
participate
in
the
Alberta
advantage
and
share.
Canadians
are
noticing
right
now.
Albert
is
leading
the
nation
in
net
in
migration.
D
More
Canadians
are
moving
to
Alberta
than
any
other
Province
I
read
an
article
yesterday
in
the
media
again
where
BC
residents
are
again
choosing
Alberta
by
the
thousands.
That's
our
rightful
place
chair
to
not
only
be
the
wealth
creation
engine
of
the
nation,
but
to
be
a
magnet
for
all
Canadians
who
pursue
opportunity
who
crave
a
free
market
economy
and
to
appreciate
limited
government.
D
All
of
this
fiscal
discipline
has
allowed
our
government
to
make
some
very
important
investments
in
budget
23
we're
increasing
funding
for
health
by
over
four
percent.
Almost
a
billion
dollar
increase
to
Health's
budget,
which
is
important
at
a
time
when
our
Health
Care
system
is
challenged
following
three
a
couple
of
years
of
a
pandemic,
we're
increasing
funding
for
Education.
Our
funding
is
going
up
by
over
five
percent.
That's
to
deal
with
massive
enrollment
growth
right
across
the
province
and
chair.
That's
good
news!
That's
good
news
for
the
province!
D
It
will
ensure
that
we
maintain
a
young
demographic
in
this
province.
It's
so
good
to
see
Canadian
families
choosing
Alberta
and
to
accommodate
a
world-class
education.
We're
increasing
education's
budget
by
over
five
percent,
we're
increasing
the
budget
for
Public
Safety
by
over
13
percent
and
Justice
by
10
percent
chair
government's
core
deliverables,
ensuring
a
safe
environment
for
its
citizens
and
a
fair
and
efficient
justice
system.
D
We've
responded
to
the
affordability
challenge
very
significantly
in
this
budget
in
the
end
in
the
previous
year,
by
bringing
in
a
fuel
tax
suspension
program,
providing
direct
support
to
albertans
families
seniors
and
our
most
vulnerable,
providing
an
electricity
rebate.
This
budget
Builds
on
that
with
support
to
students
and
delivers
on
our
commitment
to
re-index
our
tax
system
and
our
social
supports
chair.
We've
made
great
progress,
budget
23
Builds
on
that
progress,
and
we
I
couldn't
be
more
optimistic
about
the
future
of
this
province.
B
And
thank
you
Minister
for
the
hour
that
follows
members
of
the
official
opposition
and
the
minister
may
speak
honorable
members
you'll
be
able
to
see
the
time
for
the
speaking
block,
both
in
the
committee
room
and
on
Microsoft
teams.
Members.
Would
you
like
to
combine
your
time
with
the
minister
I.
B
H
It
might
even
be
scary
to
add
up
how
many
hours
we
have
spent
in
these
respective
chairs
over
the
last
four
years,
and
certainly
I
have
experience
with
being
that
person
on
the
receiving
end
of
the
six
hours
of
estimates.
It's
exhausting,
and
so
thank
you
for
joining
us
I
hear
today
and
thanks
to
all
the
officials
in
the
gallery
as
well,
I'm
going
to
start
with
just
some
really
a
simple,
straightforward
back
and
forth.
H
H
Looking
at
the
compensation
for
public
sector
on
page
98.-
and
we
know,
we've
finished
off
some
agreements
with
various
public
sector
unions,
but
I
want
to
know
what's
happening
with
out
of
scope
folks,
both
in
the
Goa
but
also
across
our
Consolidated
entities.
I
do
see
some
increases
in
funding
to
Consolidated
entities,
so
I'm
wondering
if
we've
lifted
management
pay
freeze.
If
there
is
another
compensation
framework,
any
other
policy
changes
that
we
need
to
know
about.
There.
D
Now
the
the
member
rightly
raises.
How
are
we
what's
next?
What's
next
in
terms
of
framework
for
our
agencies,
boards
and
commissions,
what
I
can
say
to
this
committee
is
that
we're
doing
some
policy
work
right
now.
We
believe
it's
in
the
public
interest
to
ensure
that
we
have
a
framework
that
will
serve
both
our
agencies,
boards
and
commissions.
Well,
around
non-union
remuneration.
D
Lastly,
I
really
believe
that
the
best
approach,
whether
agencies,
boards
and
commissions,
is
to
appoint
competent
directors
to
ensure
that
we
have
competent
directors
in
every
entity
and
then
to
give
them
additional
latitude
to
make
decisions
that
a
director
should
make
and
even
decisions
around
public
sector
remuneration
within
their
agency's
boards
and
commissions,
but
we're
looking
at
options
we're
looking
at
other
provinces
in
terms
of
framework
models,
so
that
we
can
have
a
structure
that
will
assist
these
agencies.
Boards
and
commissions
make
really
wise
thoughtful
and
responsible
decisions
around
public
sector
remuneration.
H
So
I
guess
my
follow-up
on
that
would
be
around
timing,
because
we
had
this
conversation
last
year
and
I
know
that
it
was
kind
of
a
busier,
but
but
I
I
wonder
what
is
happening
there
in
terms
of
moving
it,
not
just
for
so
I'll
tell
you,
the
constituents
I
hear
from
on
this
topic,
I
hear
from
people
who
work
at
the
University
and
the
college.
So
that's
one!
The
PSIs
is
one
and
then
I
also
hear
from
folks
who
I
mean
my
writing.
Is
an
Agricultural
Center.
H
D
Sure,
though,
and
again
those
those
are
great
questions
now,
I
I
will
say
that,
in
terms
of
we,
we
have
made
decisions
now
to
provide
flexibility
for
those
entities
moving
forward
in
terms
of
remuneration
increases.
Firstly,
as
I
mentioned,
members
can
move
through
the
steps
again
for
agencies
boards
and
commissions,
which
is
important.
That's
number
one
and
you're
right.
We
did
have
this
conversation
last
year
and
you're
right.
It
was
a
busy
year,
and
so
perhaps
there
was
some
work
that
we
might
have
achieved,
but
we
haven't
yet.
D
H
H
I
D
I
I
would
anticipate
that
the
next
model
that
is
brought
forward
should,
in
terms
of
a
structure
a
framework
for
agencies
boards
and
commissions.
Around
remuneration
should
include
our
post-secondary
institutions
again,
I
would
Envision
I
would
Envision
a
model
that
ensures
that
we're
empowering.
There
are
directors
of
those
agencies,
boards
and
commissions,
including
post-secondary
institutions,
to
to
be
able
to
make
important
decisions
around
remuneration
levels.
D
I
would
also
expect
that
those
directors
are
going
to
continue
to
bring
fiscal
discipline.
Both
both
are
important.
We
absolutely
have
to
ensure
that
we're
able
to
attract
and
retain
the
talent
we
need,
including
at
our
world-class
universities
and
colleges,
but
we
also
have
to
continue
to
bring
fiscal
discipline
to
the
province.
We
made
great
progress
and-
and
we
have
to
ensure
that
we
have
structure
so
we're
not
giving
that
away.
H
68
of
the
fiscal
plan
we
have
the
transfers
from
the
government
of
Canada,
so
I
just
want
to
provide
just
an
opportunity
to
do
any
updates
on
what
might
have
changed
because,
typically,
of
course,
budget
documents
prepared
in
the
kind
of
they
try
to
finalize
everything
around
February.
And
then
we
had
the
agreement
with
the
Prime
Minister
and
the
federal
health
transfer
agreement
come
right
around
that
same
time.
H
D
Yeah
chair,
there
was
basically
a
two-part
discussion
with
the
federal
government
around
the
Canada
Health
transfer.
We
have
included
230
million
dollars
of
increased
Canada
Health
transfer
that
was
negotiated
just
as
we
finalized
this
budget
I
have
to
thank
my
staff
and
team
to
make
the
last
minute
adjustments
to
incorporate
that
Revenue
adjustment
that
increase
in
the
CHT.
We
anticipate
that
there
will
be
a
successful
agreement
on
a
further
approximately
270
280
million
dollars.
With
with
the
federal
government
on
a
CHT.
D
Our
position
has
been
that
any
Canada
Health
transfer
should
be
given
without
strings
attached,
because
that's
provincial
jurisdiction
and
I
know
that's
a
that's
the
posture
that
our
health
minister
is
taking
in
our
Premier
when
they
negotiate
with
the
federal
government,
but
we
would
look
forward.
I
would
hope
that
there
could
be
a
successful
conclusion
to
that
negotiation,
which
would
add
some
additional
Revenue
yeah
in
year.
With
respect
to
the
health
transfer,
we've
picked
up
everything
we
could
everything
that
was
certain,
and
that
was
the
230
million.
H
D
H
D
Sure
we'll
work
to
pull
that
in
but
budget
advertising
expenditures
for
the
upcoming
year
are
forecast
at
2.8
million
dollars.
Now
it's
budget
advertising
and
we
right
now,
we've
worked
to
ensure
that
albertans
understand
the
affordability
support
that
is
available
to
them.
That's
been
that's
been
really
critical
and,
and
so
again
that's
really
part
and
parcel
of
this
budget
advertising
and
in
terms
of
the
I
think
chair.
If
I
can
ask
with
more
specificity,
is
the
member
asking
with
around?
Is
the
question
around
cost
related
to
the
Alberta's
calling?
D
So
that's
the
spend
to
date.
We
we
are,
as
you
point
out,
we
are
going
with
a
fairly
consistent
overall
budget
level
in
CPE
and,
of
course,
this
will
all
come
out
of
that
budget.
We
I
would
anticipate
that
that
our
spend
going
forward
will
be
very
similar
to
that
in
terms
of
coming
out
of
our
our
CPE
budget,
which
is
going
up
very
modestly
for
the
upcoming
year.
H
So
I'm
going
to
go
now
to
again
actually
I'm
just
going
to
stay
in
the
estimates.
If
I
might
just
a
couple
of
clarification,
questions
on
page
two
245
of
the
estimates
in
statement
of
operations,
we
see
quite
a
large
increase
in
aimco,
Investment,
Management
charges
and
I
know.
This
is
sort
of
an
in
and
out
for
government,
but
there's
still
a
large
increase,
so
I
I
can
administer
share
with
us.
What
is
driving
that
increase?
H
D
That's
that's
a
very
astute
observation.
It's
a
large
amount
of
money
and,
of
course,
as
the
member
noted
for
any
Investment
Management
costs
that
are
incurred
at
aimco.
Those
costs
are
recovered
from
the
owners
of
of
the
funds
in
terms
of
fees,
so
it's
picked
up
as
Revenue,
but
that
doesn't
at
all
discount
the
importance
of
ensuring
that
we
as
albertans,
certainly
public
sector
employees.
D
D
I
will
warn
Paul
that
I'm
going
to
call
on
him
to
talk
a
little
bit
more
about
what
is
going
on
in
aimco,
but
a
couple
of
things.
Aimco
is
managing
significantly
a
significantly
larger
investment
overall
than
it
has
in
the
past,
of
course,
with
atrf
coming
over
and
and
and
growth
over
the
last
number
of
years.
D
The
investment
is
rising
and,
of
course,
that
will
affect
Investment
Management
costs,
something
that
I
should
point
out
as
well,
and
this
is
a
metric
that
I
pay
attention
to,
but
aimco's
cost
of
managing
the
Investments
is
I
believe
about
20
basis,
points
below
peers
and
and
for
me,
that's
an
important
metric
I
want
to
know
that
Amco
is
delivering
efficiently
relative
to
its
peers
across
the
country.
But
Paul
would
you
like
to
come
and
make
some
additional
comments.
E
Sorry,
Paul
angel
from
Albert
Asset,
Management
Investment
corporation,
the
CFO
Chief
Financial,
Officer,
sorry
about
that.
So,
as
the
minister
mentioned
so
aimco
does
have
a
rigorous
budget
process
where
we
do
consult
with
our
clients.
You
know
as
as
mentioned,
that
our
clients
actually
pay
all
of
our
expenses.
E
We
recover
all
of
our
costs
from
our
clients,
so
we
have
a
budget
consultation
process
with
our
clients
and
that
culminates
with
the
board
approval
of
our
budget,
which
occurred
in
December
of
last
year
and
as
the
minister
mentioned,
we
spent
a
lot
of
time
benchmarking,
our
costs
to
our
peers.
So
overall
we
get
that
benchmarking
done
or
performed
by
an
independent
third
party,
so
on
average
over
the
last
five
years
per
annum,
our
costs
are
about
15
percent
lower
than
our
peers.
E
So
I
think
that's
an
important
data
point
so
as
far
as
the
increase
in
the
budget
or
so
for
the
estimate
24
versus
what
we're
forecasting
this
year
about
112
million
about
half
of
that
is
external
management
costs.
So
a
number
of
our
assets
are
actually
managed
externally.
So
you
see
that
come
through
an
external
management
phase
as
well
as
performance
costs.
Now
the
remainder
is
really
increasing
head
count
as
well
as
increase
in
salaries
and
benefits.
We
are
investing
in
our
business.
E
You
know
we
are
adding
head
count
predominantly
in
the
investment
management
and
Risk
Management
areas,
so
you
are
seeing
an
increase
of
that
through
the
salaries
and
benefits
line
as
as
well
as
the
investment
performance
costs.
Also
what's
impacting
investment
performance
costs
is
our
investment
performance.
E
D
and
well.
I
should
make
sure
I
should
make
a
few
comments
on
the
fact
that
we
don't
have
the
actuals
for
the
2021
year.
This
is
the
first
year
that
we're
utilizing
1gx
in
its
entirety
in
the
budget
process
and
the
combination
of
the
new
system
and
the
government
reorganization
very
late
in
the
budget
process.
D
H
H
So
in
the
fiscal
transfer,
all
right
transparency
act,
it
does
require
a
Consolidated
fiscal
plan
to
be
prepared
on
the
same
basis
as
the
year-end
Consolidated
financial
statements
it
requires.
The
main
estimates
to
be
tabled
in
February
of
each
year
requires
a
government
strategic
plan
and
Ministry
business
plans
and
then
requires
quarterly
fiscal
updates
and
sets
out
the
content
and
timelines
for
government
and
Ministry
annual
reports.
H
So
have
there
been
any
conversations
with
the
provincial
audit
committee
or
the
auditor
general
on
this
and
the
presentation
of
of
the
the
Consolidated
financial
statements
on
this
topic,
and
is
there
any
anticipation
that,
by
the
time
that
we
get
to
the
next
quarterly
that
we
will
be
able
to
prevent
those
present,
those
actuals
to
albertans?
Will
the
will
the
system
have
caught
up
by
that
point
to
be
able
to
to
do
that,
so
that
albertans
can
have
that
picture?.
D
We'll
be
we'll
be
working
working
forward
on
1gx,
there's
still
ongoing
work
to
do
again.
We
believe
we're
fully
compliant
with
the
act
at
this
point.
In
time
and,
being
you
know,
fully
transparent
with
albertans
again,
the
2122
actuals
are
included
and
in
in
in
page
152
of
the
tables
and
and
all
of
the
other
table
documents
and
in
terms
of
working
forward,
so
that
we
can
provide
more
specificity
in
in
future
reporting.
We
we
will
be
looking
to
accomplish
that
again.
This
is
these.
D
H
D
So
a
couple
of
things
that
that
would
be
a
lot
of
accountants.
One
thing
that
is
reflected
in
our
business
plans
is
the
fact
that
we
are
adding
a
little
bit
more
capacity
and
its
important
capacity
that
we've
looked
to
right
size,
our
department
here
over
the
last
few
years,
and
we're
making
adjustments
where
we've
needed
some
additional
capacity.
On
top
of
that,
of
course,
these
estimates
include
any
adjustments
to
collect
the
bargaining
agreements
and
adjustments
to
management
wage
increases
as
they
go
through
the
steps
and
as
as
they're
compensated
for
additional
Merit.
D
Now
the
there's
an
additional
rationale:
the
the
Alberta
work
initiative
and
the
demographic
studies,
the
increased
statistical
support
that
we
provided
on
assessing
the
socioeconomic
impact
of
the
cat
of
Canada's
2030
emissions
reduction
plan
is
included
in
here.
So
we
are
also
doing
some
additional
analytical
work
and
that's
going
to
be
important
work
for
the
province
of
Albert.
It's
going
to
be
important
work
for
the
nation
as
we
work
to
understand
the
socioeconomic
impact
on
Canada's
2030
emissions
reduction
plan.
But
again
the
Alberta
work
initiative
also
required
some
some
additional
capacity.
D
So
that's
reflected
in
this
significant
increase.
It
is
a
significant
increase,
but
a
combination
of
all
three
pieces:
the
socioeconomic
work
related
to
Canada's
2030
emissions
reduction
plan,
the
resumption
of
in-range
movement
for
our
existing
staff,
as
well
as
the
additional
work
related
to
the
Alberta
at
work
initiative.
H
We've
seen
quite
a
large
increase
in
some
other
lines,
for
example,
Minister's
office
spending,
not
just
the
number
of
offices.
I
know
that
those
have
because
cabinet
has
expanded,
but
also
the
individual
lines
for
each
office
have
also
increased.
So
we
see
that
in
2022,
ministers
offices
cost
30
million
in
2018
they
cost
28
million,
and
then
this
year
they're
costing
35..
H
D
Well,
there's
a
combination
of
things.
One
one
factor
is
was
the
fact
that
over
the
last
couple
of
years
during
Kobe
there
was
very
little
travel,
and
so
that
was
reflected
in
reduced
spending
from
what
it
would
have
otherwise
been
there's
an
expectation
that
there
will
be
some
travel
requirements
again
in
the
future,
and
that
would
be
reflected
in
Ministry
offices.
Budgets.
D
Again,
there's
been
adjustments
as
we
have
worked
to
right-size
government
over
the
last
four
years,
and
we've
made
significant
progress
there.
There
has
been
some
right
sizing.
There
has
been
some
movement
with
respect
to
assignment
of
responsibilities
and
Ministry
offices
taking
on
additional
responsibility
in
some
cases,
and
all
of
that
has
resulted
in
the
projections
that
we're
presenting
today.
H
D
D
So
the
the
vast
majority
of
it
does
relate
to
aimco
and
aimco
is
updating
their
systems
and
obviously
their
systems
need
to
be
world
class
and
and
require
constant
work.
I
would
again
ask
if
I
can
share
I
would
ask
Paul
imco
CFO
to
come
forward
and
talk
about
the
I.T
work
that
that
is
taking
place
at
aimco.
That's
acceptable.
E
Thank
you:
I
introduce
myself
again,
Paul
Angel
CFO
of
ivanko
on
the
capital
budget
for
aimco
our
total
capital
budget
next
year
is
19
million
and
that's
up
slightly
I
think
over.
You
know
14
million
last
year,
and
a
lot
of
that
is
in
technology
year
over
year,
but
about
five
of
the
increase,
or
so
the
increase
above
five
really
relates
to
the
opening
of
a
couple
of
new
offices
in
aimco.
E
H
I
H
H
D
Good
well
and
and
I
appreciate
the
member
concerned
about
the
split
between
Capital
grants
and
investment.
I
I
always
prefer
investment,
of
course,
because
the
province
appreciates
those
assets
over
typically
often
40
or
50
years,
as
opposed
to
reporting
the
full
expenditure
in
the
year
that
that
it's
made
in
a
capital,
Grant,
and
so
we've
had
many
of
these
conversations
at
treasury
board
over
the
last
few
years.
D
The
reality
is,
some
of
these
expenditures
can
only
be
made
through
a
grant,
and
so
with
respect
to
the
increase
in
energy
around
Capital
grants
that
largely
reflects
the
Alberta
petrochemical
incentive
program,
which
is
an
incentive
program.
That's
paid
when
a
project
is
operational
depending
on
the
award
of
that
project.
D
It's
either
paid
in
in
its
entirety
in
the
year
that
the
the
operation,
the
project
becomes
operational
or
if
it's
a
larger
award
against
paid
over
the
first
three
years
of
operation,
and
so
that
that
can
only
be
paid
through
a
grant
with
respect
to
transportation
and
economic
corridors.
Much
of
that
relates
to
ISA
funding.
So
again,
that's
funding
that
we
effectively
participate
in
with
federal
government
grants
again.
D
H
So
on
this
PDP
issue,
then
those
are
the
at
capital
investment
incentives
that
were
put
in
place
some
years
ago,
so
that
big
Jump
Then
is
the
fact
that
those
those
facilities
are
now
operational.
Do
you
have
the
the
breakdown
of
which
I
I
mean
I,
think
I
know,
but
I
just
want
to
make
sure
and
have
it
for
the
record
of
which
facilities
we're
talking
about
here's.
We
can
get
a
sense
of
what
the
Goa
investment
is
or
was,
and
what
kind
of
return
we're
getting
on
that
investment.
D
Sure
I'll
make
a
few
high-level
comments.
This
is
the
Alberta
petrochemical
incentive
program.
Now
that
program
replaces
the
PDP
program
there.
I
I
should
note.
There
were
a
couple
of
I
think
very
significant,
significant
changes
in
the
apip
program,
one
is
that
we
didn't
cap
it
and-
and
so
that's
I,
think,
an
important
distinction
and
the
fact
that
we
didn't
cap
that
program
sent
a
strong
signal
to
the
investment
community
in
that
they
didn't
have
to
compete
with
other
eligible
projects.
D
If
their
project
was
eligible,
then
they
were
able
to
to
count
on
it
and
and
they
could
go
forward
with
it,
there
wasn't
a
competition
per
se.
In
other
words,
you
know
if
there
was
five
projects
and
done
only
funding
for
three.
There
wasn't
two
good
projects
left
on
the
table
now
with
respect
to
the
projects
themselves.
D
The
budget
23
projects
include
the
inter
pipeline.
The
Heartland
petrochemical,
complex
I
think
we're
familiar
with
that
one
Dao's
Fort
Saskatchewan
furnace
expansion
and
this
one
I
think
we
all
knew
was
their
Air
Products
new
Edmonton
blue
hydrogen
production
Hub,
which
again
we're
all
excited
about.
So
those
those
are
the
projects
that
are
reflected
in
in
in
this
budget,
and
you
know
we
know
this-
that
there
are,
you
know,
there's
tens
of
billions
of
dollars
lined
up
for
petrochemical
manufacturing
investment
into
this
province
and
again
we
have
a
natural
advantage
in
this
space.
D
We're
excited
about
the
future
of
the
hydrogen
sector.
I
can't
say
with
certainty
whether
hydrogen
will
be
a
fuel
of
the
future,
but
if
it
is
I
believe
Alberta
will
be
a
global
leader
and
we're
working
broadly
with
the
industry
to
ensure
that
we're
positioned
as
such
one
other
metric
data
point
I
should
add
with
respect
to
the
Alberta
petrochemical
incentive
program.
D
One
reason
why
I
believe
I
felt
comfortable
in
not
capping
this
program,
which
would
normally
leave
a
minister
of
finance.
A
little
nervous
was
based
on
our
analysis
over
the
first
three
years
of
operation
for
these
projects.
Based
on
the
analysis
that
was
provided
to
me
by
our
department
and
energy,
we
would
expect
to
recoup
the
12
percent
grant,
that
of
effectively
12
percent
of
the
cost
of
infrastructure
for
the
projects.
D
Chair
I
appreciate
the
the
question
from
the
member,
because
it
will
be
important
that
this
on
this
program
is
well
understood
across
the
province.
There
is
no
cap
on
on
the
the
it's
a
non-refundable
corporate
tax
credit
for
new
agriculture
manufacturing
and
processing
investment.
There
there
will
be
no
competition
required
between
investment
proponents.
One
thing
I
should
add
is
that
this
tax
credit
was
calibrated
carefully.
D
H
So
I
want
to
dig
into
this
sectoral
approach
here
we
might
as
well
just
segue
right
into
this.
So
I
kind
of
have
two
more
follow-up.
Questions
on
this
topic.
I
can
see
both
sides
on
the
having
a
competitive
element
to
it.
So
what
do
we
lose
then,
when
we
lose
that
competitive
element,
when
you
were
making
that
decision?
D
Operationally
would
generate
government
revenues
through
their
through
expanded
economic
and
fiscal
capacity
through
their
activity
would
would
largely
in
again
in
the
first
three
years
of
operation,
offset
the
cost
of
the
Grant
and
again
for
larger
projects.
The
payout
of
the
grant
is
over
the
first
three
years
of
operation.
That
was
not
accidental.
That
is
so
again.
D
We
could
align
the
increased
government
revenues
with
our
with
government's
obligations,
so
that
was
really
a
big
consideration
again
whether
we
would
remove
the
cap
or
not,
but
we
also
heard
from
investment
proponents
who
identified
the
fact
that
a
cap
created
a
measure
of
uncertainty
that,
in
some
cases
when
it
was
unacceptable
as
the
member
knows,
capital
is
global.
This
Capital
can
go
anywhere
in
the
world
and
there
are
other
regions
of
the
world
whether
it's
the
Gulf
Coast
parts
of
Africa,
the
Middle
East.
D
All
of
those
areas
are
very
competitive
in
petrochemical
manufacturing
processing.
Many
of
those
regions
jurisdictions
have
very
significant
incentives,
and
so,
as
we
calibrated
our
incentive,
we
had
to
be
mindful
of
an
incentive
that
provided
certainty
and
an
incentive
that
also
provided
some
fiscal
certainty
and
again.
This
provided
both
now
I
I
should
make
a
couple
of
comments,
because
I
think
the
member
is
also
asking
at
least
I'm
I'm
interpreting
that
there's
a
question
in
here
around.
D
Typically
on
a
normal
year,
this
last
year
was
a
bit
abnormal,
but
on
a
normal
year
the
Alberta
Government
would
collect
the
the
sector
that
would
contribute
route,
the
largest
to
corporate
tax
revenue.
Wasn't
the
oil
and
gas
industry.
It
was
financial
services
and
again,
Financial.
Services
is
very
sensitive
to
corporate
tax
rates
and
interprovincial
allocation
of
taxable
income
is
based
largely
on
two
measures.
One
is
where
the
income
is
earned,
which
province
the
income
is
earned.
D
However,
while
it's
important
to
have
a
competitive
corporate
tax
rate
very
important
to
ensure
that
companies
have
the
access
to
the
talent
and
skills
they
need,
which
is
critical,
in
fact,
I
believe
that's
going
to
be
the
limiting
factor
in
economic
growth
and
diversification
going
forward,
and
that's
one
reason
why.
Last
year
we
allocated
600
million
over
three
years
for
talent,
skills
and
jobs
and
and
this
year
building
on
that,
with
more
than
370
million
along
the
same
lines
for
the
same
effort.
D
D
Our
friends
to
the
east,
at
Saskatchewan
in
Manitoba
and
and
some
Northern
Tier
States,
and
all
of
that
competitiveness
work
has
gone
into.
Ultimately,
the
implementation
nation
of
this
agriculture
manufacturing
and
processing
tax
credit,
which
is
really
part
of
budget
23.
I,
have
to
give
I
have
to
give
Minister
Nate
Horner
credit
here,
because
he
and
his
team
did
some
really
important
work
on
understanding
the
competitive
balance
between
the
provinces
and
ensuring
coming
forward
with
this
proposal,
which
I
believe
is
expertly
calibrated
to
ensure
that
we're
not
undermining
the
competitiveness
of
you
know
our
great.
D
You
know
beef
processors
in
the
province
that
are
existing
today
and
operating
in
a
very
competitive
environment
or
our
protein
processors
or
the
dairy
sector.
We
need
to
ensure
that
existing
players
that
their
competitiveness
is
not
undermined.
The
fact
that
new
entrants
have
to
be
profitable
and
taxable
to
benefit
I
believe
will
ensure
an
equilibrium.
H
So
on
this
business
of
competition
with
Saskatchewan
for
AG,
manufacturing
and
processing,
I've
certainly
heard
it
from
proponents
and
over
the
last
couple
of
years,
they've
come
to
me
and
I've
put
the
argument.
I've
put
The
Minister's
argument
to
them.
I've
said
the
minister
will
tell
you
that
you
have
a
lowered
CIT
and
that's
at
least
three
points,
I
think
it's
at
least
11
or
11
and
change
over
there
in
Saskatchewan,
but
you're
choosing
to
make
your
investments
in
Saskatchewan,
not
not
here.
So
why
do
you
need
a
sectoral
approach?
H
Because
this
government's
approach
had
been
that
a
sexual
approach
was
not
required,
so
I
heard
from
them
over
and
over
again
that
the
the
CIT
wasn't
the
most
important
piece
and
that
they
were
happy
to
make
investments
in
a
jurisdiction
with
an
11
or
I?
Think
it's
11
and
a
bit
maybe
you're,
just
11
flat
11
in
Saskatchewan
11
CIT,
because
they
had
this
sectoral
approach.
H
D
But
the
reality
is
this
that,
in
in
some
sectors
where
we're,
naturally
competitive
but
other
jurisdictions
offer
significant
specific
incentives
such
as
Saskatchewan,
an
agriculture
manufacturing
and
processing
and
Saskatchewan
offers
a
couple
of
very
significant
tax
credits.
One
simply
just
offsets
their
PST.
Okay,
that's
easy
to
identify,
but
they
offer
additional
incentives.
D
But
again,
governments
have
to
be
pragmatic
and
in
this
space
such
consistent
with
the
petrochemical
space,
we
compete
with
jurisdiction,
questions
that
are
extremely
competitive
in
in
their
incentives,
and
so
we've
had
to
bring
a
carefully
calibrated
non-refundable
corporate
tax
credit
to
level.
The
playing
field,
in
fact,
to
tip
the
playing
field
in
our
favor
I
would
prefer
that
governments
only
worked
on
their
natural
attributes.
H
So
I'm
looking
at
schedule,
16
for
the
agriculture
piece
and
I
know
somewhere
else
in
the
fiscal
plan,
there
is
a
forecast
of
the
cost
of
the
the
egg
tax
credit,
but
it
doesn't
look
like
it's
projected
for
the
into
the
forecast
period.
So
it
is
anticipated,
then,
by
by
TBF
that
the
actual
expenditures
on
this
will
be
further
into
the
out
years.
Is
that
what
I'm
to
understand
there?
There.
D
Will
be
an
impact
on
the
fiscal
plan
and
the
we
believe
in
the
immediate
succeeding
year
in
in
this
fiscal
plan
there
will
be
an
impact,
but
this
is
a
non-refundable
corporate
tax
credit,
so
it
will
be
reflected
in
a
reduction
of
corporate
tax
revenue
and
it's
not
reflected
in
a
capital
Grant,
it's
not
a
spend
per
se.
It's
in
fact,
tax
relief.
H
D
At
this
point
in
time,
there's
been
significant
interest
and
in
in
in
the
sandbox
approach,
but
in
terms
of
applications
we
don't
I,
don't
believe
we
have
any
projects
going
forward.
Yet
with
respect
to
the
those
regulatory
sandbox
for
financial
services,
but
I
would
I'm
going
to
put
a
lull
on
the
spot
and
just
have
them
speak
to
the
amount
of
interest
that
is
out
there
right
now
in
terms
of
the
Financial
Services
regulatory
sandbox.
D
If
that's
okay,
chair
because
this
this
is
a
This-
was
an
Innovative
approach,
regulatory
approach
that
really
has
significant
interest
by
the
financial
services
sector
and
again
it's
it's
a
it's
a
very
narrow
approach,
but
it's
one
where
again
Alberta's
differentiated
itself
relative
to
other
provinces
on
moving
forward
with
a
very
competitive
regulatory
environment.
So
Laurel
can
you
provide
a
little
color
on.
I
B
K
K
What
are
the
problems
with
it
is
nobody
can
hold
it
securely
or
many
can't,
and
so
these
trust
companies
are
setting
up
and
and
trying
to
provide
that
service.
So
a
lot
of
the
applications
or
not
applications,
but
interest
has
been
around
crypto
recently
and
certainly
other
technology,
but
again
for
most
of
them.
It's
it's
not
easy
to
talk
about
because
of
a
non-disclosure
agreements.
H
D
D
Creating
this
regulatory
sandbox
for
financial
services,
which
is
the
First
Financial
Services
regulatory
sandbox
in
Canada
I,
believe,
sends
a
message
of
a
message:
that's
consistent
with
our
broader
approach
to
the
economy,
and
that
is
that
there's
a
government
in
Alberta
that
is
absolutely
doing
all
it
can
to
position
the
business
environment
to
be
competitive,
to
be
Innovative,
to
attract
investment,
to
create
opportunity
for
albertans
and
for
Alberta
businesses.
And
you
know
it's
an
attitude
backed
up
with
substantive
action
and
that
attitude
matters.
It
matters
to
investors.
D
I
I
couldn't
speak
to
specific
and
shouldn't
speak
to
specific
company
entities,
but
one
thing
I
can
say
is
that
we
we
are
not
as
a
government
exposed
and
when
we
talk
FTX
I,
think
right.
Now
we
all
pucker
up
a
little
bit.
We
will
ensure
that
in
our
approach
with
these
with
this
regulatory
sandbox,
that
we
are
are
our
sandbox
structure.
I'm
very
confident
will
provide
the
requisite
protection
for
consumers
going
forward.
B
H
H
I
have
to
say
that
I
I
am
very
concerned
about
consumer
protection
around
these
speculative
assets
around
this
whole
world
of
unregulated
speculative
assets,
which
is
what
crypto
is
it's.
You
know
just
just
gambling
tokens
really
at
the
end
of
the
day,
and
the
last
thing
I
want
to
see
is
more
albertans.
H
These
are
all
the
pieces
that
that
have
come
out
of
of
actually
regulated
above-board
good
faith,
Financial
Services
actors
in
this
province
and
elsewhere.
That
could
be
could
benefit
from
this.
And
yet
all
we
seem
to
have
attracted
is
some
a
pretty
fly-by-night,
a
group
of
folks
that
have
wrapped
themselves
up
in
all
kinds
of
you
know,
just
frankly,
fraud
and
and
loss
for
ordinary
people.
H
D
Chair
I
I
would
I
would
want
to
I.
I,
certainly
wouldn't
agree
with
the
member
that
all
of
the
companies
that
have
inquired
around
the
opportunities
within
Alberta's
Financial,
Services
regulatory
sandbox,
our
our
fly
by
night,
and
have
an
intention
to
fleece
albertans
I,
don't
believe
that
to
be
the
case,
I
believe
that
these
I
believe
the
vast
majority
of
businesses
that
are
have
been
inquiring
are
inquiring
in
good
faith
and
and
would
have
a
novel,
a
new
product
that
they
are
interested
in
testing
in
the
province
of
Alberta.
D
Under
a
you
know,
under
a
regulatory
framework
that
will
protect
consumers
but
will
also
ensure
the
ability
to
test
a
new
and
novel
product
and
so
again,
I
I
believe
the
in
fact,
I'm
I
know
that
there's
been
some
real
diversity
in
terms
of
the
types
of
companies
that
have
been
acquiring
that
have
been
interested.
I
know
just
from
conversations
that
I've
had
myself.
Thank.
B
You
Minister
that
concludes
the
first
portion
of
questions
for
the
official
opposition
will
now
move
on
to
any
independent
member
I
see
Mr
Barnes
is
here
for
20
minutes
of
questions
followed
by
a
five
minute
break
after
you're
finished.
So
would
you
like
to
go
back
and
forth
with
the
minister
Minister.
F
If
it's
okay,
can
we
go
back
and
forth?
Please
sure:
that's
fine,
yes,
I
went
please
go
ahead!
Mr!
Okay!
Thank
you,
Mr
chair
and
thank
you
to
minister
Taves
and
your
staff
for
all
the
work
you
do
for
Cyprus
medicine
had
in
Alberta
greatly
appreciated
I.
Have
any
questions
I'd
like
to
get
through?
First
of
all,
on
page
150
of
the
ministry
business
plans
personal
income
tax.
F
Last
year
you,
the
government
of
Alberta,
asked
albertans
to
pay
13.8
billion
dollars
in
personal
income
tax
next
year,
you'll
be
asking
them
to
pay
14.1
billion
dollars
in
personal
income
tax.
It
was
a
2019
policy
platform
of
the
UCP
to
restore
our
flat
tax.
The
members
of
the
UCP
in
November
of
2021
again
asked
the
government
of
Alberta
to
prove
to
restore
the
provincial
personal
tax
rate
to
a
flat
tax
rate.
F
D
Well,
chair
three
I'd
like
to
thank
the
member
for
the
question
and
I
appreciate
the
members
bent
on
fiscal
discipline
and
and
low
taxes.
I
I
share
the
members
goal
and
objective
there
and
and
appreciate
it.
I
I
would
I
I
was
clear
over
the
last
four
years
that,
as
we
moved
forward
to
put
this
province
on
a
sustainable
fiscal
trajectory,
there
was
a
sequencing
number
one.
D
D
We
intentionally
moved
our
corporate
tax
rate,
our
business
tax
rate
from
12
to
8
percent
and
I
know
that
National
companies
are
working
to
find
ways
to
allocate
as
much
taxable
income
in
Alberta
right
now
as
possible.
It's
rational
and
that's
happening
and
I
believe
that,
with
thoughtful
personal
tax
reform,
we
could
achieve
the
same
thing
personally
and
I.
Think
that's
where
the
member
is
going,
but.
F
F
When
you
were
answering
questions
from
the
the
member
from
Lethbridge
West,
you
talked
about
how
Saskatchewan
and
Manitoba's
tax
credit
situation
in
agriculture
has
maybe
helped
them
more
than
has
helped
Alberta
so
again,
small
business
tax
Manitoba
is
a
zero
on
top
of
the
ten
percent.
Small
businesses
pay
to
to
the
Ottawa
Saskatchewan
has
temporarily
reduced
their
12
to
zero.
D
Certainly,
I
can
speak
for
the
fact
that
they
contribute
to
our
Fabric
in
such
a
significant
way
in
rural
Alberta
that
that
you
know
should
be
a
considered,
an
ongoing
consideration,
We
Believe
broadly,
we
have
by
Far
and
Away
the
most
competitive
business
environment
in
in
the
country
to
as
a
small
business
as
an
owner
of
businesses
and
and
based
on
my
experience
in
public
accounting
practice.
I
would
suggest
the
two
percent
rate
again
for
the
four
small
businesses.
D
Businesses
that
qualify
for
the
small
business
deduction
is
not
a
prohibitive
rate
is
an
extremely
competitive
rate,
is
an
extremely
low
rate
of
tax
for
eligible
income.
I
never
believed
that
low
rate
to
be
prohibitive
here
in
the
province
of
Alberta
there
were
there
were
many
other
things
that
either
made
or
broke
my
business.
One
I
believe
again
for
many
small
and
medium-sized
businesses
in
the
province.
D
F
You
I
appreciate
that
both
the
flat
tax
and
the
Corp
and
the
small
business
tax
reader
are
being
reviewed.
I
find
it
slightly
awkward
that
the
oil
and
gas
royalties
are
not
part
of
the
the
discussions
today.
Just
like
a
brief
comment
on
that.
Although
again
exactly
what's
your
responsibility
and
and
what
your
Ministries
have
time
to
peruse,
I
believe
your
budget
this
year
is
setting
oil
and
gas
royalties
at
16.7
billion,
even
though
last
year
they
were
27
billion,
but
our
historical
average
is
8.7
billion
a
year.
F
I'm
wondering
how
confident
you
are
of
two
things.
First
of
all
that
these
oil
sands
plants
will
continue
to
pay
the
people
of
Alberta,
a
big
amount
amount
of
money,
and
secondly,
if
we
return
to
our
historical
average
of
8.7
billion
instead
of
the
16
plus
billion
you've
estimated,
how
are
you
going
to
make
up
the
shortfall?
Thank
you
yeah.
D
Chair,
that's
that's
a
great
question
and
it's
one
that
certainly
the
members
of
Treasury
board
wrestle
with
in
terms
of
projecting
revenues
into
the
future,
and
there
is
a
sensitivity,
a
significant
sensitivity
to
oil
prices,
Energy
prices
in
this
province,
but
there's
been
a
you
know.
A
couple
of
structural
shifts
over
the
last
number
of
years.
I
would
suggest
two
to
three
to
four
years
number
one.
D
D
When
a
project
is
in
pre-payout,
then
effectively
a
royalty
income
is
based
on
between
one
and
nine
percent
of
of
of
revenues,
and
if,
if
it
is
in
post
payout,
then
the
it's
the
greater
of
one
to
nine
percent
or
between
25
and
40
percent
of
net,
and
so
when
a
project
moves
to
post,
it
never
goes
back,
and
as
a
result
of
that,
we
are
in
a
new
time.
You
know,
structurally
in
terms
of
royalty
income.
The
other
change
has
been
the
fact
that
you
know
over
time.
D
Over
the
last
four
years,
we've
seen
additional
egress
opportunities
and
again
they've
not
been
as
significant
as
we
would
have
all
liked
to
have
seen.
We
would
have
wanted
to
see
a
northern
Gateway
pipeline.
We
would
have
wanted
to
see
energy
East
and
kxl,
but
in
spite
of
you
know
those
projects
not
going
forward
and
bridge
line,
three
replacement
was
completed,
which
you
know
added
another
route,
360
380,
000
barrels
a
day
optimization
with
our
existing
pipelines,
has
added
some
additional
volumes.
D
You
know
estimates
here
a
couple
of
years
ago
was
that
optimization
could
add
about
400
000
barrels
a
day.
So
that's
also
important,
of
course,
Trans
Mountain
is
going
forward,
even
though
it's
way
over
budget
Transmountain
pipeline
is
going
forward,
and
that
will
add
something
north
of
six
hundred
thousand
barrels
a
day
and
so
increased
volumes
will
be
part
of
the
equation
going
forward
with
respect
to
royalty
income.
D
But
if
I
can
talk
a
little
bit
about
our
royalty
income
and
the
sensitivity,
because
the
members
right
to
ask
the
question,
we
have
a
high
degree
of
sensitivity
on
Energy
prices.
Right
now
and
in
fact,
in
the
fiscal
plan
we've
been
transparent
with
albertans
for
every
dollar
change
in
West
Texas
intermediate.
It
affects
government
revenues
by
630
million
dollars
for
every
dollar
change
in
the
differential
between
West
Texas
intermediate
and
Western
Canadian
select
it's
a
600
million
dollar
adjustment.
D
D
So
today,
I'm
watching
WTI
as
we
see
uncertainty
in
markets
right
now,
you
know
caused
by
Financial
uncertainty
in
the
U.S,
with
the
Silicon
Valley
Bank
of
failure.
That's
impacting
markets,
it's
impacting
commodity
prices
today
and
we
see
West
Texas
intermediates,
you
know
drop
into
that.
70
range,
that's
a
significant
drop,
but
we're
also
seeing
a
differential,
that's
much
narrower
than
what
we
predicted.
We
predicted
79
dollars
for
WTI.
For
the
upcoming
year,
we
predicted
a
differential
of
just
under
20.,
1960
or
1970
for
this
upcoming
year.
D
Well,
we're
seeing
a
differential
right
now
between
that
15,
16
dollar
Mark,
and
so
that's
offsetting
the
fact
that,
right
today,
our
WTI
price
is
lower,
we're
also
seeing
a
currency
trading
at
72
cents
and
change
as
opposed
to
7620,
which
is
what
we're
projecting
all
of
them
offset
each
other
and
which
is
which
is
a
good
thing
right
now
now.
Lastly,
with
respect
to
energy
price
projections,
we
took
what
I
believe
was
a
conservative
approach.
D
F
Thank
you,
Mr
thieves,
appreciate
that
answer.
I've
talked
to
a
lot
of
albertans
who
are
concerned
about
the
overall
spending
level
and
if
those
royalties
don't
continue
as
an
example,
you
know
Health
Care
spending
you
mentioned
was
up.
Four
percent
Health
Care
spending
in
Alberta
is
now
over
26
billion
dollars.
F
F
D
We're
not
implementing
a
provincial
sales
tax,
I
I'm
about
lower
taxes,
not
higher
taxes,
I
appreciate
it
and
if
can
I,
make
a
comment
on
expenditures.
I
I
have
to
say
you
know:
we've
worked
hard
to
bring
our
per
capita
spending
down
in
this
province
in
real
dollar
terms
and
again,
as
as
the
member
knows,
we
set
a
fiscal
anchor
of
aligning
our
spend
with
comparator
provinces.
We
were
10
billion
dollars
out
of
whack
in
2019..
D
We've
eliminated
that
10
billion
dollar
differential
as
of
this
year
and
I
I
should
note
that
you
know,
even
in
the
this
this
year.
In
fact,
the
the
current
fiscal
year
we're
in
and
this
projected
upcoming
year
we
are,
our
spending
remains
significantly
lower
than
population
growth
and
inflation
are
operating
spending
and
we've
come.
You
know.
D
The
last
two
years
have
been
significant
population
growth
of
almost
3
percent
this
year,
significant
growth
last
year,
inflation
of
you
know
in
the
four
plus
range
and
then
6.6
percent
right
around
six
and
a
half
percent
this
current
year.
You
combine
all
of
that
inflation
and
that
population
growth
and
it's
putting
pressure
on
on
government
services
and
the
cost
of
those
Services.
D
What
we
have
to
do
now
that
we've
achieved
our
per
capita
spending
at
what
I
would
say
is
a
much
more
defensible
level,
which
is
approximately
700
per
dollars
per
person
lower
today
than
it
was
in
2019
in
real
dollar
terms,
again
adjusted
for
inflation
on
a
per
capita
basis.
Now
I
believe
we
need
to
ensure
that
we
don't
increase
spending
Beyond
population
growth
and
inflation.
F
Thank
you
for
that
answer.
You
mentioned
it
in
your
previous
answer.
The
banking
crisis
that
appears
to
be
going
on
in
America
with
the
Silicon
Valley
Bank
albertans
on
a
bank
Alberta
Treasury,
Branch
I,
was
shocked
years
ago
in
the
financial
crisis,
and
one
of
the
things
I
remember
hearing
was
that
ATB
was
one
of
the
banks
most
exposed
to
asset-backed
commercial
paper
and
the
losses
that
went
with.
D
Chair
appreciate
that
question
and
I
think
it's
a
very
appropriate
question
for
today,
as
we
see
what's
going
on
in
the
U.S
with
The
Challenge
around
some
Regional
Banks.
One
thing
I
can
say
is
that
ATB
is
extremely
well
capitalized.
Today,
strong
liquidity
and
I
will
actually
call
on
Mr
Dan
Hugo,
the
CFO
for
ATV
I
think
it
would
be
good
that
we
hear
from
him
but
We've.
Obviously,
the
last
few
days
we've
been
checking
in
with
ATB
just
to
understand.
D
You
know
what's
going
on
in
terms
of
behavior,
because
behavior
is
significant
at
a
time
like
this,
the
behavior
of
customers
of
any
bank
and
certainly
the
information
I've
received
as
we're
seeing
real
stability.
One
thing
I
will
say
in
you
know,
in
the
challenge
of
2020,
when
there
was
so
much
Global
uncertainty,
there
was
actually
a
flight
to
stability,
and
there
there
was
a
flight
to
ATB
in
terms
of
consumer
deposits.
During
that
time,
I
think
there
was
there's
a
recognition
by
albertans
broadly
that
ATB
is
well
managed.
D
J
And
then
Hugo,
CFO,
ATB
Financial,
and
just
to
reiterate
what
the
minister
mentioned,
we
have
really
good
Capital
position.
We've
got
great
liquidity
and
the
one
thing
that
I'm
really
proud
of
that
our
balance
sheet
is
a
lot
more
diverse
than
Silicon
Valley
Bank.
So
actually,
all
the
loans
and
deposits
support
all
of
albertans,
whether
it's
agriculture,
whether
it's
energy
so
across
the
board,
very
proud,
very
strong
balance
sheet,
as
the
minister
mentioned,
grew
it
very
much
through
the
pandemic
and
then
secondary
very
much
Diversified
as
the
economy
in
Alberta.
D
Dan
Dan,
thank
you
for
that.
One
thing:
I
I
should
note.
I
I
think
members
are
all
aware
of
of
the
Mandate
that
we
have
the
government
has
for
HEB
and
that
is
to
provide
a
comparative
or
better
risk-adjusted
returns
relative
to
other
Regional,
Banks
and
and
the
ATB
has
been
delivering
good
results.
We
certainly
they've
been
taking
that
mandate
seriously
and
I've
appreciated
it.
One
thing
I
have
to
say
during
the
challenge,
though,
of
2020
the
spring
of
2020.
D
As
you
know,
I
there
were
so
many
sectors
facing
liquidity
challenges
during
that
time,
I
have
to
say
that
having
a
Regional
Bank
operate
here
in
Alberta,
with
expertise
specific
to
the
sectors
that
drive
our
economy
was
very
helpful
and
again
they
stuck
to
their
Mandate
of
delivering
best
risk-adjusted
returns,
but
having
that
expertise
in
a
Regional
Bank
focused
on
Alberta
I
did
really
provide
they
were.
They
were
a
great
source
of
capital
for
much
of
our
economy
during
that
time
and
I
certainly
appreciate
it.
F
Okay,
thank
you.
Ministry
fact,
sheet
mandate
and
structure
you've
been
given
the
Mandate
of
reviewing
and
providing
recommendations
to
collect
Alberta
taxes,
including
personal
income
taxes
through
an
Alberta
Revenue
Agency.
How
far
along?
Are
you
in
this
process
and
and
of
course,
Alberta
and
Quebec
were
the
only
two
provinces
that
collect
our
our
corporate
attacks
and
and
I
recall
a
situation
where
the
interest
and
the
penalties
that
albertans
pay
corporately
covers
are
almost
covers.
The
tax
collection
costs
for
Alberta
is
that
in
fact
the
case
and
what
would
the
benefits
be
bus.
B
A
A
A
B
C
Minister,
it's
been
said
that
you
can
rope
and
ride
and
Wrangle
a
deficit
by
some
and
I
think
the
last
couple
years.
It's
kind
of
shown
that
we
had
two
back-to-back
balanced
budgets.
My
first
couple
of
questions
are
going
to
be
around
the
general
business
plan
and
some
of
the
overall
objectives
in
your
opening
remarks.
C
It's
quite
the
comparison
and
contrast,
quite
frankly,
sir,
between
the
last
Administration
and
what
you've
managed
to
do
here,
notwithstanding
the
triple
Swan
events
that
took
place
economic
crash
oil
prices
in
the
in
the
basement,
and
we
also
had
obviously
the
pandemic
and
coming
out
of
that
to
be
able
to
have
the
balanced
budget
and
then
put
money
back
into
the
treasury
Etc
and
back
into
the
Heritage
Trust
Savings,
a
credit
to
you
and
your
your
Administration
for
doing
that.
Sir
first
off.
C
So
thanks
for
all
the
constituents
of
my
area,
understanding
that
fiscal
Prudence
didn't
come
without
some
hard
decisions
and
intestinal
fortitude
along
the
way.
So,
firstly,
thank
you
to
you
and
your
team
I'm
curious
in
a
couple
things
there,
though
overall,
where
is
most
of
the
the
spending
increased,
which
Ministries
saw
the
biggest
increases
in
their
operating
budgets
and
why
and
then,
which
Ministries
are
going
to
see
smaller
operating
budgets
and
then
why?
If
you
could
just
start
with
that,
sir.
D
Sure
I
appreciate
the
very
good
question
from
the
member
and
certainly
appreciated
the
his
opening
remarks
in
terms
of
additional
investment
in
budget
23.
The
the
largest
investment
in
in
dollar
form
is
to
health.
Almost
a
billion
dollars,
965
million
dollar
increase
to
Health
in
the
upcoming
year,
operationally
I
I.
Don't
think
that
should
surprise.
Many
of
us
health
is
about.
43
percent
of
our
budget
spend
right
now
and
there's
great
pressures
in
health.
D
We
are
facing
capacity
challenges
and
these
are
challenges
of
Frontline
Healthcare
professionals,
not
so
much
a
lack
of
bricks
and
mortar,
but
we
need
to
ensure
that
we
are
funding
the
new
physician
agreement
that
are
that
our
minister
of
Health
just
completed.
We
need
to
ensure
that
we're
funding
the
what
I
would
suggest
we're
we're.
Very
you
know,
modest,
realistic
and
appropriate
increases
in
our
collective
bargaining
agreements.
D
Again,
we
need
to
ensure
that
we're
paying
our
Health
Care
Professionals
well-
and
this
budget
supports
that
the
minister,
the
education
Ministry
received
a
larger
increase
than
health
on
a
percentage
basis,
actually
over
five
percent
and
that's
largely
to
deal
with
enrollment
growth
with
so
many
Canadians
choosing.
Alberta
as
their
home,
it's
a
good
news
story.
We
need
to
ensure
that
we
have
enough
education
capacity,
but
it's
more
than
just
enrollment.
A
growth.
D
126
million
is
going
to
support
the
increasing
complexity
in
the
classroom,
so
this
will
be
additional
investment
with
thousands
of
educational
assistants
and
other
support
staff
in
our
classroom.
In
terms
of
the
high
percentage
increases,
Public
Safety
is
getting
about
a
14
13
14
increase
this
year
very,
very
significant,
and
again
it's
it's.
D
It's
not
our
largest
Ministry
in
terms
of
spend,
but
it's
getting
it's
getting
a
very,
very
large
increase
on
a
percentage
basis
that
will
put
a
235
additional
provincial
sheriffs
out
across
the
province
in
terms
of
increase
nursing
enforcement
capacity
more
boots
on
the
ground.
If
you
will
right
through
the
province,
the
minister,
the
Justice
Ministry,
is
getting
an
increase
of
10
percent
to
increase
our
capacity
in
the
courts,
additional
Crown
prosecutors,
additional
Court
capacity.
We
need
to
ensure
that
every
perpetrator
has
their
day
in
court.
C
Missed
now,
I
appreciate
that
Minister
on
the
Royal
crime
front.
Obviously
you
know
I've
spoken
in
the
house
a
little
bit
some
of
the
severity
and
frequency
there,
and
obviously
that
catch
and
release
system,
that's
kind
of
been
predicated
by
some
of
the
federal
Administration
decisions
are
quite
frustrating
and
alarming.
So
addressing
those
that
makes
a
lot
of
sense
and
then
the
second
part
of
that
question
Minister
was
which
one
of
the
Ministries
are
taking
a
haircut.
D
C
C
But
you
also
had
a
surplus
parts
thanks
to
our
booming
energy
sector
and
thank
goodness
that
we
turned
things
around
and
they
did
feel
welcome
back
in
the
area
and
know
that
their
integral
not
only
to
our
Province
but
to
the
country
itself,
but
for
sometimes
folks,
just
you
know,
take
take
that
as
a
windfall
being
good
luck
and
budgets
balancing
themselves.
Maybe
you
want
to
comment
on
on
how
we
go
out
there
and
what
else
have
you
done
other
than
just
letting
the
price
of
oil
float
up
and
taking
a
windfall?
D
And
that's
a
great
question:
I
have
to
say
that
the
recovery
and
energy
prices,
and
certainly
the
high
prices
that
we
had
through
parts
of
2223,
were
a
big
part
of
the
large
Surplus
that
that's
the
reality
and
and
and
we're
thankful
for
that
for
this
last
year.
But
it's
really
been
a
three-prong
effort
number
one
again.
Higher
energy
prices
have
been
of
great
assistance
in
improving
our
fiscal
fortunes,
but
again
I
mentioned
it.
In
my
opening
remarks,
we
really
focused
on
positioning
Alberta
for
competitiveness.
Broadly
within
our
business
environment.
D
That's
resulted
in
Alberta,
leading
the
nation
in
Real,
GDP
growth.
That's
resulted
in.
You
know
tens
of
billions
of
dollars
of
business
investment
coming
into
the
province
and
with
that
economic
activity
comes
expanded,
fiscal
capacity,
that's
reflected
in
our
corporate
tax
revenues.
Again
we're
collecting
significantly
more
corporate
tax
revenue
at
an
eight
percent
rate
than
the
previous
government
collected
at
12,
and
while
Energy
prices
are
a
part
of
that
equation,
not
nearly
all
of
that
equation.
D
The
third
piece
was
fiscal
discipline
and
we
had
to
bring
our
expended
our
per
capita
cost
of
delivering
government
in
line
with
comparative
provinces.
We
should
at
least
be
as
efficient
as
the
average
of
Quebec
BC
in
Ontario
and
mission
accomplished.
There
we
have
in
real
dollar
terms
and
in
other
words
in
in
costs
adjusted
for
inflation
and
population
growth.
We've
brought
down
in
a
significant
way
the
cost
of
delivering
government
in
this
province.
In
fact,
I
asked
my
department
to
do
some
analysis.
D
Had
we
continued
on
the
previous
government's
trajectory
the
previous
government
was
spending
was
increasing
spending
at
about
four
percent
per
year
operational
spending.
That
was
almost
a
full
percentage
point
above
CPI
and
population
growth
had
that
Trend
continued.
Our
spending
would
have
been
about
six
and
a
half
billion
dollars
higher
in
2324
than
what
we're
projecting.
Instead
of
a
2.4
billion
dollar
Surplus,
we
would
have
been
looking
at
a
four
billion
dollar
deficit.
C
Those
are
some
very
interesting
numbers
in
that
fiscal
trajectory,
so
great
work
on
doing
the
heavy
lifting
there
too
and
the
other
one
too.
You
know
there's
this
old
saying
out
there
a
person's
a
pilot
within
five
minutes.
If
they
don't
tell
you,
they
probably
will
so
again
pretty
happy
to
see
the
Aerospace
and
Aviation
sector
taking
off
when
I
bring
that
back
to
my
constituents.
C
Obviously,
in
that
area,
we're
talking
about
these
little
airports
and
diversifying
the
economy
and
how
that
ties
in
with
our
our
universities
as
well
to
have
one
was
a
big
announcement
and
I'm
sure
that
is
in
no
small
part
of
creating
that
environment
that
you're
talking
about
and
also
to
help
weather
the
storms.
But
I
did
notice
on
page
15
of
the
fiscal
plan
that
the
estimated
Surplus
was
over
2.3
billion
for
23.24,
and
that
represents
a
decrease
from
the
10.3
billion
that
was
forecasted
from
22
to
23..
C
D
D
Again,
all
of
these
variables
have
a
very
significant
impact
on
our
revenues
that
we
generate
in
the
province
and
I
believe
we've
taken
quite
a
Prudential
approach
to
that
those
Revenue
projections.
Again
on
WTI,
when
we
finalized
our
forecast,
we
were
between
four
and
a
half
and
seven
dollars
lower
than
the
average
of
private
sector
forecasts,
which
is
important
now
we're
experiencing
volatility
in
the
economy,
certainly
in
North,
America
and
globally,
again
driven
in
part
by
some.
D
D
You
know
for
Energy
prices
going
forward
again
the
fact
that
we
have
a
an
economy-
that's
more
Diversified,
that's
broader
than
it's
ever
been,
certainly
in
modern
time,
we'll
continue
to
ensure
that
we're
generating
you
know,
income
and
create
additional
fiscal
capacity,
not
dependent
on
their
energy
prices.
That
will
support
the
government
of
Alberta
revenues.
But
lastly,
chair
to
the
member,
because
this
is
such
a
good
question,
fiscal
discipline
will
continue
to
matter.
C
Well,
I
think,
to
that
point:
Minister,
it's
it's
showing
up
on
Bay,
Street
and
also
on
Wall
Street,
with
our
credit
upgrade
so
the
first
time
we've
had
one
in
a
while
because
again
walking
the
walk
and
talking
the
talker
two
separate
things
and
you've
done
both
so
again
to
your
Administration
for
be
able
to
do
this.
What
we're
finding
is
that
certainty
out
there?
They
they
believe
Alberta
is
the
place
like
we
were
actually
delivering
on
those
promises
and
I
appreciate
your
conservative
approach
to
the
forecasting
as
well.
C
I
was
very
disappointed
when
we
were
first
elected
to
crack
open
the
books
and
find
some
of
the
projections
that
were
there
and
a
lot
of
the
announcements
that
came
out
pre-election.
There
was
nothing
there,
but
fairy
tales
and
pixie
dust.
That's
why
we
didn't
have
the
capital
plans.
That's
why
a
lot
of
the
infrastructure
spends
in
in
my
area
specifically
were
delayed
and
I
was
happy
to
see
that
it
was
funded
this
year.
C
So
with
that
too,
with
the
egress
on
our
our
products,
as
you'd
mentioned
earlier,
with
line
three
and
then
the
other
project
coming
online,
that
we
should
also
hopefully
close
that
Gap
in
the
differentials
which
will
be
very
positive
as
well,
but
with
that.
So
maybe
you
can
just
give
me
an
indication
of
how
you
come
up
or
how
you,
your
department
arrives
at
some
of
these
forecasts
and
again
I'll
put
you
on
the
spot.
But
how
certain
are
you
of
these
forecasts.
D
Well,
I
can
speak
to
the
first
question
easier
than
the
second
question
today.
With
respect
to
how
we
come
up
with
these
forecasts.
We
certainly
consult
the
private
sector,
analytics
firms
and
experts
and
we
compile
their
forecasts
and,
and
then
we
ultimately
compare
Theirs
to
ours.
Now
I
have
to
say
that
we
have
a
very
a
good
team
in
treasury
board
in
finance.
We
have
a
team
that
has
been
I.
D
I
would
suggest,
has
had
better
accuracy
than
almost
perhaps
any
group
out
there
when
it
comes
to
projecting
Alberta's
economic
growth,
our
GDP
growth,
but
but
we've
also
had
you
know
real
success
in
projecting
Energy
prices.
Historically,
it's
it's
been
far
from
perfect,
but
when
we
compare
the
Alberta
government's
projections
relative
to
other
entities,
Alberta's
been
you
know,
kind
of
at
the
top
of
the
game.
D
So
again
we
we
do
our
own
forecast,
based
on
what
we
believe
is
going
to
be
happening
in
the
Alberta
economy,
the
the
Canadian
economy
and
what
and
what
we
believe
will
be
happening
nationally,
and
then
we
ultimately
compare
conclusions
with
private
sector
forecasts
and
and
then
take
a
conservative
approach
again.
We're
four
and
a
half
to
seven
dollars
lower
on
WTI
projections
relative
to
the
private
sector
forecasts
at
the
time.
Now
again,
today
we
see
volatility
in
the
markets.
We
we've
had.
D
D
D
I
believe
Alberta
is
going
to
be
positioned
very
well
to
deal
with.
You
know
the
economic
headwinds
that
we're
seeing
right
now
and
in
part,
a
response
to
higher
Central
Bank
interest
rates.
You
know
a
higher
an
environment
where
Capital
costs
more
again
we're
seeing
that
impact
in
the
economy
broadly
and
and
I
believe
Alberta
will
be
well
positioned,
relative
to
other
provinces,
to
weather
these
economic
headwinds.
C
Appreciate
that
Minister
and
page
17
of
the
fiscal
plan
outlines
the
new
fiscal
framework.
I
know
we're
running
short
on
time,
but
I
do
want
to
get
into
that,
because
I
honestly
believe
that
that's
that
sets
up
the
skeleton,
the
framework
and
the
bones
for
other
administrations
to
follow
so
I
Heard
lots
before
that
on
the
doors
talking
to
people
at
my
constituency
when
we
were
prior
elected
that
we
were
spending
well
beyond
our
means,
nobody
understood
what
the
heck
we
were
doing
and
it
showed
in
our
our
credit
ratings.
C
Obviously
so,
with
that
we're
not
spending
like
drunken
Sailors
we're
have
a
fiscal
framework,
we're
going
to
make
sure
that
there's
you
know
definite
guidelines
along
there,
so
not
to
put
you
on
the
spot.
But
if
the
government
kept
up
dismending
I
think
you
already
mentioned
that
before
we'd
be
about
66.5
billion
dollars
lower.
C
D
But
now
that
we've
brought
our
spending
down
to
sustainable,
more
sustainable
levels,
now
I
believe
it's
the
appropriate
time
to
bring
in
fiscal
rules.
The
you
know,
the
the
fiscal
rules
are
a
layering
of
rules
that
I
believe
will
really
result
in
more
responsible
fiscal
management
during
what
we
believe
could
be
some
years
of
higher
revenues.
Number
one
we're
going
to
require
balanced
budgets
with
exceptions,
important
exceptions,
exceptions
that
will
accommodate
a
revenue
structure,
an
economy
that
still
has
a
large
resource
based
component
to
it.
D
So
an
exception
is
there
for
very
material
drops
in
Revenue,
there's
an
exception
for
expenses
related
to
disasters
and
emergencies,
Beyond
government's
control.
We
need
to
have
those
exceptions.
There's
also
included
in
the
fiscal
rules,
is
going
to
be
a
limit
on
spending
increases
year
over
year.
That
limit
will
be
effectively
inflation
and
population
growth
and
again,
that's
critically
important.
D
If
I've
looked
at
the
analysis,
had
we
back
in
Ralph
Klein's
day
or
even
the
day
of
Ed
stelmack
had
had
we
had
that
rule
in
place
in
real
per
capita
terms,
our
spending
would
not
have.
It
would
have
been
flat
if
governments
spent
right
up
to
that
limit,
it
would
have
been
flat
in
in
real
chain
dollar
terms
on
a
per
capita
basis.
We
would
have
not
had
that
10
billion
dollar
differential
back
in
2019.
That's
why
that
rule
I
believe
is
critically
important.
Thirdly,
we
have
a
rule.
D
It
will
also
prioritize
reinvestment
of
earnings
in
the
Heritage
savings
trust
fund,
but
it
will
also
allow
for
additional
flexibility
for
additional
deposits
in
the
Heritage
savings
trust
fund,
and
it
will
allow
a
portion
of
surpluses
to
be
used
for
one-time
non-recurring
expenditures
related
to
strategic
government
priorities.
Now
that
those
expenditures
are
still
subject
to
an
Appropriations
Bill
and
a
fiscal
plan
and
the
budget
process.
C
Could
we
get
off
of
doing
that?
It's
kind
of
like
the
kid
taken
from
the
cookie
jar
you
know
and-
and
you
kind
of
told
me
at
the
time
we
we
couldn't-
we
couldn't
afford
it
at
the
time.
You
know
the
the
financial
situation
so
to
see
us
turn
around
within
four
years
to
be
able
to
make
sure
that
that
framework
is
in
place
to
make
sure
that
trust
fund
can
still
grow
and
to
make
sure
that
we
can
keep
our
spending
flat.
C
D
Are
there
are
fiscal
rules
of
a
various
form
held
by
some
provinces,
but
based
on
the
information
I've
received,
there's
no
province
that
has
this.
You
know
layering
of
comprehensive
fiscal
rules
that
we're
proposing
right
now
in
the
house
and
no
other
province
with
a
balanced
budget
to
date
this
year
to
interrupt.
B
Minister,
that
concludes
the
government.
Members
First
block
of
questions.
We
now
move
to
five
minutes
of
questions
from
the
official
opposition,
followed
by
five
minutes
of
response
from
the
minister.
As
mentioned,
members
are
advised
as
the
chair
at
the
beginning
of
the
rotation,
if
they
wish
to
combine
their
time
with
the
minister.
Is
that
the
case
I.
H
G
H
So
the
way
this
legislation
reads
to
me
and
the
way
it
reads
on
the
page
is
that
after
that,
a
projection
happens.
The
minister
can
make
a
projection
at
any
time
after
the
budget
passes,
and
then
the
responsible,
Minister
May
allocate
from
the
Alberta
fund
any
amount
to
debt
repayment.
So,
even
after
the
calculations
are
made
at
the
initial
debt
repayment,
you
can
go
back.
That's
fine
with
the
approval
of
T
treasury
board.
H
H
If
the,
if
the
minister
can
just
spend
extra
money
first
of
all
project,
whatever
it's
going
to
be
and
then
spend
it
with
treasury,
board
approval
and
spend
it
inside
a
or
75
days
out
of
an
election
window.
What
what
is
even
the
point
of
a
budget
process,
this
does
not
seem
like
something
that
inspires
confidence
for
albertans
and
I.
Think
albertans
would
at
least
want
to
see
that
these
new
powers
to
spend
this
so-called
Alberta
fund
will
not
be
used.
H
You
know
on
April
15th
right
before
an
election
and
I
think
we
need
a
guarantee
to
the
people
of
Alberta
that
those
that
these
funds
will
not
be
allocated
on
an
interim
basis.
Just
a
few
days
after
the
budget
passes
in
a
few
weeks
before
an
election
day
and
I
think
we
need
an
ironclad
assurance
that
that
will
not
not
happen
so
I'm.
Looking
for
a
pretty
clear
answer
on
that.
D
Chair
guaranteed
this
spending
is
spending
of
the
government
of
Alberta
is
subject
to
an
Appropriations
Bill
and
is
subject
to
the
oversight
and
diligence
of
the
budget
process.
And
so
again
any
funds
held
in
the
Alberta
fund
have
to
be
you.
You
noted
it
accurately
prioritize
debt
repayment,
at
least
50
percent
of
any
surplus-
has
to
go
to
debt
repayment.
That's
maturing
in
the
year
any
amounts
not
designated
to
debt
repayment,
go
into
the
Alberta
fund
and
again
to
be
held
for
future
debt.
D
Repayment
transfer
to
the
Heritage
savings,
trust
fund
or
one-time
non-recurring
expenditures
consistent
with
strategic
government
priorities,
but
those
expenditures
are
subject
to
an
Appropriations
bill.
Now
we
do
with
within
an
Appropriations
Bill
the
the
bill
that
you
know
we're
working
on
right
now
on
the
floor,
we
have
a
contingency
amount,
1.5
billion
dollar
contingency,
which
is
necessary
with
these
new
fiscal
rules.
So
we
can
accommodate
an
unforeseen
event.
D
A
disaster,
drought,
fire
flood
Lord,
let
it
not
happen
this
year,
but
we
have
to
make
sure
that
we
can
accommodate
it
if
it
does
within
our
contingency.
But
any
spending
out
of
the
Alberta
fund
is
subject
to
an
Appropriations
bill
and
the
budget
process
effectively
what
this
Alberta
fund
does.
It
would
allow
the
government
to
perhaps
fund
an
infrastructure
project
again
go
write,
a
project
that
goes
through
the
Appropriations
Bill
process,
but
it
would
allow
the
government
to
fund
a
strategic
infrastructure
project
from
something
other
than
borrowed
money.
D
H
D
Well,
the
contingency
fund
is
kept
set
aside
for
disasters
and
expenses
that
relate
to
emergencies
that
can't
be
anticipated.
It
can
also
be
used
for
again
unanticipated
pressures
for,
for
instance,
in
our
Health
Care
system
that
that
could
arise.
We've
come
through
a
few
years
where
that's
been
necessary
and
that's
what
a
contingency
fund
is
is
for
and
that's
what
a
contingency
fund
would
be
used
for.
So.
H
Can
Alberta
fund
funds
be
expended
or
be
expended
and
then
an
Appropriations
Bill
be
brought
in
after
the
fact?
That's
the
first
question
I
have
that
on
that,
and
can
anyone
point
me
to
the
section
of
the
ACT
where
it
requires
the
expenditures
from
Alberta
fund
are
required
to
go
through
an
Appropriations
act
process
because
I'm,
seeing
in
section
11
that
the
responsible
Minister
made
with
approval
of
treasury
board
in
finance,
make
interim
allocations
based
on
projection
of
surface
Surplus
for
that
fiscal
year?
D
It's
absolutely
necessary
and
any
spending
out
of
the
Alberta
fund
also
is
subject
to
the
fiscal
rules
which
these
fiscal
rules
will
bring
in
much
more
discipline
and
diligence
to
in-year
government
spending,
and
that's
one
reason
why
we've
increased
the
contingency
to
1.5
billion
because
effectively
there
are
only
a
couple
of
exceptions
for
spending
beyond
the
the
the
the
budgeted
Appropriations
Bill
and
those
exceptions
are
if
there
are
disasters
and
emergency
expenses,
as
declared
by
an
order
in
council
beyond
the
contingency,
that's
an
exception.
We
have
to
have
it.
D
We
can't
predict
that
we
won't
have
another
2021
style,
drought
right
across
the
province
and
have
afsc
insurance
crop
insurance
Indemnity.
So
we
have
to
have
that
exception.
Another
exception
is
for
again
spending
related
to
the
Alberta
petrochemical
incentive
program
again,
that
that
would
be
an
exception
and
for
spending
related
to
Dedicated
Revenue.
In
other
words,
in
the
event,
the
federal
government
sends
a
lot
of
funding
in
year
to
the
province
of
Alberta.
This
fiscal
rule
will
allow
the
province
to
actually
increase
spending
for
that
project,
specifically
because
of
the
dedicated
Revenue.
B
F
Please,
if
we
go
back
and
forth
continue
that,
thank
you.
You
have
10
minutes.
Okay,
thank
you.
Mr
chair
and
thank
you.
Minister
I
want
to
pick
up
where
I
left
off
in
your
business
plan.
Your
mandate
and
structure
I
find
it
interesting
that
the
first
bullet
starts
talking
about
your
department,
leading
governments,
fiscal
planning
and
creating
an
environment
that
attracts
investment
and
job
creators.
F
My
goodness
we
we
hear
continually
about
how
ottawa's
values
don't
match.
Alberta's
values.
We
hear
continually
how
the
high
taxation
and
the
and
the
money
Printing
and
the
big
spending
in
Ottawa
actually
harms
harms
all
of
Canada,
and
we
also
hear,
on
the
other
side,
that
26
American
states
are
actually
looking
at
reducing
their
tax
burden
right
now
on
their
businesses
and
their
and
their
citizens,
so
that
that
will
make
things
things
tougher.
F
So
then,
the
next
three
bullets,
your
mandate,
I
find
very,
very
important
and
I'd
very
much
like
to
hear
you
know
what
your
plans
are
and
I.
We
ended
the
last
session
with
talking
about
reviewing
and
providing
recommendations
to
collect
Alberta
taxes.
Of
course,
we
already
collect
our
corporate
taxes.
Quebec
collects
Quebec's
personal
taxes.
I
still
find
it
amazing
that
that
a
couple
of
federal
elections
ago
Quebec
asked
if
they
could
collect
Ottawa
share
of
the
taxes
and
Andrew
Scheer
who's
running
for
the
conservatives.
F
D
Well,
chair,
that's
that's
a
really
appropriate
question,
because
this
was
part
of
my
mandate,
letter
from
the
premier
and
and
that's
of
course,
one
reason
why
it.
It
appears
in
our
business
plans
where
the
work
is
ongoing.
Right
now,
within
the
department
around
analyzing
the
costs
and
opportunities
related
to
an
Alberta
Revenue
Agency
as
chairs
the
member
appropriately
have
pointed
out.
We
do
this
corporately
and,
and
so
the
question
is:
should
we
be
doing
it
provincially
now,
I
I
would
want
to
draw
a
distinction.
D
There
I
believe,
there's
a
significant
distinction
between
perhaps
the
opportunity
of
collecting,
all
of
the
personal
income
tax,
Court
of
federal
and
provincial
versus
collecting,
just
the
the
provincial
Quebec
would
be
an
ally
of
Alberta
on
collecting
all
of
the
personal
income
tax
and
and
and
so
they
would
be
a
natural
Ally
of
Alberta's,
but
with
respect
to
collecting
just
the
provincial
portion.
These
are
some
of
the
considerations
that
we're
weighing
out
again.
There
will
be.
There
will
be
a
further
report
in
the
future,
but
the
considerations
around
a
cost.
D
This
no
doubt
would
have
a
cost
for
Alberta.
It
would
re
result
in
increase
and
increased
bureaucracy.
In
fact,
our
initial
work
shows
you
know
thousands
of
additional
staff
in
in
a
tax,
Revenue
Agency
Alberta
Revenue
Agency
around
the
collection
of
personal
provincial
income
taxes
again,
but
not
necessarily
mean
we
shouldn't
do
it,
but
it
would
be
a
consideration.
D
We
would
also
have
to
consider
the
costs
of
systems.
Our
expectation
is,
the
cost
would
be
in
the
billions
for
systems
and
that
we
would
have
to
set
up
right
now,
I.T
systems
to
appropriately
collect
and
manage
in
Alberta
income
tax
and
have
an
a
personalized,
Albert
income
tax
structure
out
there
I
think
like
we
might
all
envision.
Of
course,
the
other
requirement
would
be
that
albertans
would
have
to
file
two
tax
returns,
which
we
do
corporately.
D
F
Thank
you,
I
agree,
Minister,
that's
three
or
four
things
that
your
Department's
reviewing
from
a
return
to
our
flat
tax
to
eliminating
the
two
percent
small
tax.
To
reviewing
this,
as
you
start
to
answer
the
next
question,
do
you
have
any
timelines
for
when
these
reviews
will
be
done,
but
I
just
want
to
jump
ahead
because
time's
limited
over
62
percent
of
albertans
voted
to
end
Equalization?
F
Of
course
this
was
a
huge
promise
in
the
2019
or
campaign,
and
it's
been
very,
very
quiet
since,
if
not
totally
quiet,
what
efforts
has
your
department
made
to
to
actually
end
the
you
know
the
25
billion
dollars
a
year,
plus
the
albertan
sent
to
Ottawa,
where
a
large
part
about
his
Equalization
and
what
successes
have
you
had
and
do
we
have
a
time
frame
where
we
might
expect
some
results?
Thank
you.
D
Yeah,
that's
chair.
That's
that's
a
great
question
and
I
I
can
say
at
a
high
level
that
there
is
policy
work
going
on
right
now
with
respect
to
options
around
our
options
and
an
approach
around
ending
Equalization.
Obviously
that
that's
going
to
be
a
really
challenging
task,
but
because
other
provinces
will
have
something
to
say
about
that.
As
you
would
expect.
D
However,
there
is
policy,
work
being
done
right
now
and
there's
a
strategic
plan
being
put
together
around
that
whole
question,
but
in
the
in
the
meantime
there
are
there's
progress
that
we
need
to
make
because
in
the
meantime,
we
have
an
equalization
program
with
a
formula,
that's
absolutely
unfair
and
with
a
with
an
equalization
program,
Federal
fiscal
transfer
program
that
provides
disincentive
for
every
Province
to
maximize
investment
attraction
and
grow
their
economy.
There's
some
mileage
that
we
need
to
make
there.
D
We
of
course,
as
a
province
broadly,
have
a
goal
of
ensuring
that
any
federal
fiscal
transfer
program
doesn't
provide
a
disincentive
for
every
province
to
maximize
investment
attraction
and
economic
growth
and
fiscal
capacity
right
now,
Equalization
I
believe
gets
in
the
way
of
that
objective.
I
can
share
through
you
tell
the
member
that,
when
we
last
met
as
Finance
ministers
in
Toronto
I
raised
the
greater
questions
and
issues
that
albertans
consider
around
Equalization
and
the
whole
issue
of
a
program
that
D
incentivize
provides
a
disincentive
for
economic
growth.
D
There's
a
few
things
that
we
could
change
number
one.
We
would
want
to
change
the
way
Quebec
includes
or
values
their
Hydro
industry,
the
income
effectively
that
they
generate
the
wealth
that
they
generate
from
their
Hydro
income.
We
believe
that
it's
not
Market
based
and
our
expectation
was
that
if
it
could
be
market-based,
it
would
greatly
reduce
the
size
of
the
equalization
program
and
the
amount
that
is
is
going
to
come
back.
D
We
have
we're
pushing
policy
right
now
around
changing
that
mechanism
to
either
eliminate
the
floor
or
to
ensure
a
much
more
equitable
distribution
of
Equalization
funds
beyond
the
average
of
fiscal
capacity
in
the
country,
so
we're
in
the
interim
we're
making
we're
making
some
progress.
We
Believe,
certainly
as
we
advocate
for
Alberta's
position
around
Equalization,
but
in
the
in
the
longer
term,
there's
some
work
done
on
fundamental
changes.
Okay,
thank
you.
F
Minister
yeah,
it's
I,
guess
it's
more
than
frustrating
that
Equalization
has
been
in
effect
for
60
years
and
and
the
problems
are
well
understood,
but
but
it
never
changes
and
I.
Think
it's
important
to
I
think
it's
crucial
to
push
for
results.
In
the
last
minute.
That's
left
I'm
just
going
to
try
to
take
30
seconds.
F
Alberta's
pension
own
Pension
Plan
would
be
five
billion
dollars
a
year
plus
in
benefits
for
all
albertans,
whether
you
know
particularly
higher
premiums
for
our
seniors
and
our
retirees
or
lower
costs
for
our
our
companies
and
our
employees.
How
good
would
that
be
absolutely
believe
that
the
Alberta
Government
needs
to
take
this
to
a
referendum
for
albertans,
because
pensions
are
crucial,
but
I
also
absolutely
believe
that
your
government's
been
very,
very
quiet
about
the
benefits
and
the
results.
What
are
your
plans
about?
An
Alberta
pension
plan.
D
G
Thank
you
very
much
chair
and
through
you,
chair
to
the
minister,
I,
want
to
ask
you
a
few
questions
that
you've
already
talked
a
little
bit
about,
but
I
want
to
ask
them
in
a
way
so
that
people
who
might
be
watching
and
others
who
might
watch
this
on
on
on
their
computers
later
on,
might
have
a
better
understanding
of
a
few
things
contained
in
budget
2223
or
23
24.
Rather
so,
on
page
19,
when
you're
talking
about
in-ear
expense
growth,
can
you
explain
to
the
folks
out
there,
foreign.
G
D
D
Firstly,
if
it's
really
government's
responsibility
to
deliver
most
efficiently
year
in
year
out
to
respect
to
have
the
utmost
respect
for
Alberta
taxpayer
dollars
that
we
collect
through
the
tax
system
I
for
one
believe
that
as
much
as
possible,
a
government
should
be
leaving
albertan's
money
in
albertan's
pockets
and
so
any
any
tax
income
that
we
would
generate,
which
we
need
to
to
deliver
government
programs.
We
need
to
treat
with
the
utmost
respect
and
deliver
most
efficiently.
D
This
rule
will
ensure
that
our
spending
remains
contained
and
defensible
again.
We've
worked
hard
as
a
government
to
bring
our
per
capita
spending
in
line
with
other
provinces
over
the
last
three
years
on
a
per
capita
basis
mission
accomplished
now,
I
believe
we
are
at
the
opportune
point
to
limit
spending
increases
for
population
growth,
which
is
defensible
as
more
people
move
to
Alberta.
We
have
to
have
a
bigger
Health,
Care
System.
We
have
to
fund
enrollment
growth
in
education
and
the
other
metric,
of
course,
is
inflation.
D
Of
course,
as
we
Face
inflation,
the
costs
of
everything
go
up
and
we
have
to
recognize
that
we
have
to
adjust
government
spending
for
both
of
those
factors:
inflation
and
population
growth.
This
rule,
though,
I
believe,
will
ensure
that
Alberta's
government
expenditures
remain
sustainable
in
the
long
term
and
that's
critical.
G
So
in
the
past
we
know
that
at
times
Alberta
has
you
know
in
a
boom
economy
has
had
both
population
growth
and
inflation
rates
higher
than
comparator
provinces.
How
do
we
deal
with
that?
We've
talked
a
lot
in
in
the
last
four
years
about
comparator
provinces
and
where
we
rank,
how
do
we
deal
with
that
sort
of
going
forward
when
we
recognize
that
you
know
Alberta's
been
calling,
people
are
coming,
economic
growth
is
happening.
D
D
It
really
bodes
well
for
the
future
of
the
province,
but
with
that
come
comes
an
increased
requirement
for
government
services,
whether
it's
in
our
Health
Care
system
or
education
system,
and
that's
why,
having
effectively
an
allowance
for
increases
in
population
growth
and
inflation,
to
have
that
kind
of
spending
increase
allowance
that
is
critical
again,
there's
also.
There
will
also
I
believe
in
many
cases
in
some
cases,
be
an
economies
of
scale
benefit.
In
other
words,
we
can
deliver
even
more
efficiently
as
the
volume
of
our
delivery
increases.
D
D
However,
I
believe,
if
we
keep
our
spending
increases
to
populate
growth
and
inflation,
we
will
provide
defensible
spending
levels,
defensible
spending
ceiling
for
albertans
now.
Lastly,
chair
through
to
the
member
are
spending
ceiling.
If
you
will
is
a
ceiling,
it's
not
a
Target.
We
will
also
be
measuring
Alberta's
per
capita
government
spending
with
that
of
comparative
provinces.
That
will
remain
a
fiscal
anchor
that
will
remain
a
a
measurement
stick
if
you
will
to
ensure
that
Alberta
continues
to
deliver
efficiently,
but
on
top
of
that
we
will
identify
a
spending
ceiling
in
this
fiscal
rule.
G
Very
good-
and
thank
you
very
much
through
your
chair
to
the
minister
for
that
explanation
and
I-
think
I
think
that
is
a
really
critical
piece.
I
think
it
it
might
be.
The
most
important
piece
in
this
entire
budget
is,
is
that
framework
that
you're
putting
in
place
for
the
future
and
so
I'm
appreciative
of
that
absolutely
I
want
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
some
of
the
exceptions.
You've
talked
about
it
a
little
bit
before,
but
again
for
the
benefit
of
those
out
there
who
are
going
to
watch
this.
G
G
We've
you've
talked
a
little
bit
about
apical
you
with
the
other
member.
You
talked
a
little
bit
about
sort
of
the
mechanism
around
this,
but
just
explain
perhaps
for
the
audience
out
there
had
the
contingency
fund,
which
was
a
great
idea
at
the
beginning,
because
too
often
we
had
emergencies
that,
through
our
budget
right
out
the
window,
well
not
right
out
the
window,
but
it
certainly
made
it
difficult
to
come
in
on
budget.
So,
can
you
just
explain
a
little
bit
about
how
this
is
going
to
work?
D
Jerry
appreciate
the
quest
question.
Firstly,
we
have,
we
are
increasing
Alberta's
contingency
amount
in
this
budget
and
and
it's
really
reflective
of
the
contingency
pressures
that
we've
had
over
the
last
number
of
years.
You
know
back
in
2021
are
just
the
cost
of
crop
insurance,
which
was
a
government
obligation
because
of
the
province-wide
drought,
just
that
cost
alone
was
about
2.4
billion
dollars,
2.5
billion
dollars,
so
very,
very
significant.
This
last
year,
even
though
we
had
crops
that
in
many
areas
were
average
or
even
better,
we
had
significant
hail
damage
and
with
elevated
crop
prices.
D
Our
agriculture
Insurance
Indemnity
projection
is
a
is
over
a
billion
dollars
even
this
next
year.
That's
one
reason
why
we've
increased
that
contingency
to
1.5
billion
now
in
terms
of
exceptions
to
these
expenditure
rules
again
number
one.
Any
expenses
that
are
incurred
because
of
a
disaster
or
an
emergency
and
the
disaster
or
emergency
have
to
be
events
that
are
declared,
such
by
an
order
in
council
by
cabinet.
So
there's
going
to
be
some
real,
strict
guidelines,
there
number
one
and
again
we
we
have
to
have
that
exception.
D
Otherwise
we
couldn't
deal
with
with
a
you
know:
province-wide
drought
or
perhaps
a
fire
or
flood
like
we've
had
over
the
last
decade
or
15
years.
Of
course,
another
exception,
as
I
noted
earlier,
is
our
payments
under
the
Alberta
petrochemical
incentive
program.
Sometimes
we
can't
you
know
a
project
might
finish
sooner
than
was
scheduled,
and
so
that
would
be
an
exception.
A
defensible
exception.
D
Another
exception
would
be
a
dedicated
Revenue.
In
other
words,
there
could
be
revenue
from
a
third
party.
Source
you're
marked
for
a
specific
project,
and
we
don't
want
to
not
be
able
to
participate
in
that
project
because
of
these
fiscal
rules
so
again
for
dedicated
Revenue,
we
can
increase
spending
in
your
spending
Beyond
the
budgeted
amount,
there's
also
exceptions
for
non-cash
accounting
adjustments
because
of
changes
in
accounting
rules
and
right,
right,
Ops
or
write
Downs
on
investments.
Those
those
are
important
exceptions
to
make
these
rules
durable
in
the
long
term.
G
D
Sure
so
that's
a
that's
a
great
question:
we're
not
going
to
have
a
lot
of
time
to
to
get
the
full
answer
out.
Ultimately,
in
2324
we're
projecting
again
a
2.4
billion
dollar
Surplus.
Now,
that's
not
necessarily
a
cash
Surplus
that
will
get
confirmed
converted
to
a
cash
basis.
There
are
many
non-cash
adjustments
in
a
surplus
calculation,
but
at
least
half
of
sorry.
H
H
And
then,
if
the
minister
can
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
reins
on
this
projections.
Piece
because
we
know,
projections
are
volatile.
The
minister
has
first
hand
experience
with
this.
We
missed
our
projections
by
16
billion
dollars
in
2020,
given
the
the
economic
shocks
in
this
province,
both
on
oil
prices
and
due
to
covid.
That's
why
we
ran
a
24
billion
dollar
deficit,
the
largest
in
30
years
in
Canada.
So
there's
no
question
that
volatility
in
projections
is
a
tough
business
here
in
Alberta.
H
So
if
we
don't
need
to
go
before
the
legislature
to
allocate
the
Alberta
fund
which,
right
now,
we
don't,
what
are
the
other
reins
on
that?
It
used
to
be
that
that
we
would
get
this
information
to
the
public
through
the
quarterly
reporting.
But
this
allows
us
to
issue
projections
outside
the
quarterly
reporting
process.
D
Good
share
the
good
questions
and
personally
I
want
to
just
ensure
that
we
correct
the
record,
while
at
one
of
our
fiscal
updates
during
those
days
of
darkness,
with
the
Triple
Black
Swan
event,
we
were
projecting
a
you
know:
a
deficit
north
of
20
billion
our
deficit
that
year
came
in
I,
believe
it's
16.9
billion
dollars.
My
department
can
just
yeah
they're
nodding,
16.9
billion,
so
it
came
in
you
know
significantly
lower
than
than
our
mid-year
fiscal
update.
D
So
fortunately,
the
deficit
was
not
as
high
as
as
the
member
noted,
with
respect
to
the
first
line
of
questioning
on
the
Alberta
fund.
Again,
this
act
is
subject
to
and
it's
subject
to
our
financial
Administration
act
and
that
Financial
Administration
act
requires
all
government
spending
to
be
subject
to
an
Appropriations
Bill
unless
it's
statutory
in
nature,
and
so
this
this
will
ensure
that
again,
the
legislature
votes
on
any
expenditures
out
of
the
Alberta
fund.
D
Again,
the
Alberta
fund,
with
respect
to
this
one
eligible
use
of
funds,
one-time
expenditures
that
are
non-recurring
simply
allows
a
government
to
go
to
a
fund
where
there's
cash
instead
of
going
to
Capital
markets.
To
borrow
that's
effectively
what
this
accomplishes,
all
the
spending
is
still
subject
to
all
the
oversight
of
the
budget
process
and
an
Appropriations
Bill
and
all
the
debate
that
goes
with
that
bill.
D
D
That's
important
to
me
number
two
governments
can
choose
to
transfer
more
funds
to
the
Heritage
saving
stress
fund
I'm,
going
to
look
forward
to
the
conversation
around
the
decision
and
debate
around
the
tension
between
further
investment
and
debt
repayment
and,
of
course
the
third
option
is
for
one-time
non-recurring
expenditures,
but
again
those
expenditures
completely
subject
to
the
budget
process
and
Appropriations
Bill.
All
the
requirements
of
the
financial
Act.
H
I
H
Sorry,
it's
the
second:
it's
the
this
business
of
an
Alberta
Revenue
Agency,
so
Economist
Trevor
tomb
estimated
the
cost
of
an
Alberta
Revenue
Agency
at
500
million
annually
and
based
on
the
CRA
scale.
Some
preliminary
preliminary
analysis
shows
an
increase
in
5000
ftes
for
the
core
Public
Service.
Roughly
a
20
increase
CRA
is
the
largest
Department
in
the
core
Federal
service,
a
civil
service,
it's
possible
that
the
Canadian
Forces
are
larger,
but
they
aren't
considered
core
public
service
and
ottawa's
accounting
documents.
D
D
We
understand
what
the
opportunities
would
be
as
well
as
what
the
impact
would
be
on
albertans
and
so
again,
we're
going
to
be
very
pleased
to
share
that
work
with
certainly
all
members
of
the
chamber
and
with
albertans
broadly,
but
we
need
to
complete
the
work,
but
but
I
want
to
point
out
an
Alberta
Revenue
Agency
to
collect
and
manage
the
full
collection
process
and
the
full
Administration
process
of
an
Alberta
Tax
return.
If
you
will
is
a
very,
very
significant
effort.
H
Be
an
irritating
effort,
if
not
significant
so
doing
it
twice,
I'm,
not
sure
if
that's
the
best
retail
politics
that
we
can
choose
to
do
75
days
out
of
an
election,
but
so
there's
some
analysis
that
shows
an
increase
in
5
000
ftes
for
the
core
public
service
for
such
an
undertaking.
Is
that
about
right,
too
high
too
low.
D
H
D
Chair,
firstly,
I
with
respect
to
an
Alberta,
Revenue
Agency
and
an
Alberta
pension
plan.
You
know
in
in
both
cases,
We
Believe
doing
the
work's
important
with
edible
Revenue
Agency.
We
we
are
quite
confident
we
can
get.
This
work
done
largely
internally
at
not
significant
cost,
and
we
think
it
would
be
important
for
albertans
to
understand
again
what
the
costs
and
opportunities
are
in
an
Alberta,
Revenue
Agency.
So
to
do,
the
work
I
think
is
entirely
defensible
and
I
won't
speculate
on
the
outcome.
D
I
think
you
know
the
members
noted
perhaps
some
of
the
challenges
that
exist
with
an
over
a
Revenue
Agency,
but
it's
important.
We
do
the
work
and
we
also
understand
what
the
opportunities
may
be
as
well
with
an
open,
a
pension
plan,
really
the
same
premise
supplies
we
believe
it's
important
that
we're
transparent
with
albertans.
D
We
believe
it's
important
that
we
look
at
every
opportunity
that
may
Advantage
Alberta
within
this
confederation-
and
you
know,
there's
been
work
done
by
you-
know
a
number
of
entities
that
would
point
to
the
fact
that
an
Alberta
Pension
Plan
may
offer
real
opportunity
for
the
people
of
Alberta.
That's
that's.
Why
we've
taken
on
this
project?
In
fact,
the
Fair
Deal
panel
recommended
that
the
Alberta
Government
do
a
deep
dive.
Do
the
analysis
and
share
the
works
complex?
There
is
so
much
complexity
to
do
the
Actuarial
work
related
to
an
Alberta
pension
plan.
D
We
need
to
understand
of
the
you
know,
hundreds
of
billions
of
dollars
that
cppib
is
managing.
You
know
what
would
be
Alberta's
share
in
the
event
we
chose
to
go
on
our
way
and
that's
that's
one
question.
Obviously
we
would
have
to
ensure
that
we
can
deliver
on
the
investment
function
which
I'm
confident
we
could
thank.
B
G
D
Sure
so
we're
forecasting
a
2.4
billion
dollar
Surplus
for
this
upcoming
year
and
we're
forecasting
cash
availability
of
about
2.9
billion.
As
a
result
of
you
know,
after
you
do
all
the
non-cash
adjustments
and
non-surplus
adjustments
that
in
fact
affect
cash
and
so
again,
based
on
the
requirements
in
terms
of
framework
fiscal
framework
affecting
Surplus
at
least
half
of
that
Surplus
would
have
to
be
applied
to
debt,
that's
maturing
during
the
year.
D
So
in
this
case
it
would
be
a
minimum
of
1.45
billion
would
have
to
be
allocated
to
debt
maturing
during
the
course
of
the
year.
Now
we
have
over,
we,
we
have
several
billion
dollars
of
debt.
That's
maturing
this
upcoming
year
and
I
mean
I
can
tell
I
can
tell
you,
my
preference
in
Surplus
management
is
to
PR,
you
know
be
deferential
to
debt
repayment,
and
so
again
a
minimum
of
50
of
any
surplus
has
to
go
to
debt
repayment.
D
Governments
can
choose
to
put
all
of
it
towards
that
repayment
if
they
would
would
choose
that
option
and
I
personally
think
that
would
not
be
a
bad
option,
given
the
fact
that
creating
additional
fiscal
room
is
essential.
The
best
way
to
create
fiscal
room
is
to
pay
down
debt.
However,
the
government
could,
after
making
the
minimum
debt
repayment
of
1.45
billion,
could
put
the
remaining
1.45
in
the
Alberta
fund
and
again
the
that
cash
would
sit
in
the
fund.
G
Let's
move
on
to
some
affordability
measures:
it
isn't
a
secret
at
all
that
this
government
is
pretty
committed
to
making
life
more
affordable
for
albertans.
I.
Think
we've
shown
that
during
this
period
of
inflation,
which
we
haven't
seen
for
a
very
very
very
long
time,
you
know
people's
cost
of
living
are
rising.
I
I,
hear
often
on
the
doors
about
the
price
of
lettuce
and
how
much
a
red,
pepper
costs
and
all
those
sorts
of
things.
G
D
Sure
share
through
you
would
like
to
thank
the
member
for
the
question,
because
affordability
is
a
great
concern
with
so
many
households
right
now.
We
are
at
a
time
where
you
know:
we've
not
seen
these
kinds
of
inflation
rates
for
decades.
Quite
frankly,
and
we
came
out
with
a
very
comprehensive
affordability
package
approach
again
made
it
made
possible
because
of
real
fiscal
discipline
and
strong
financial
results
in
the
previous
couple
of
years,
but
what's
new
in
this
budget?
Well,
we
there's
a
number
of
items
that
are
new,
but
not
number
one.
D
I'll
start
with
additional
support
for
our
post-secondary
students
in
this
budget.
We
are
reducing
our
interest
rate
on
student
loans
down
to
Prime,
so
that's
both
a
one
and
two
point
reduction
in
interest
rate,
which
will
have
a
real
effect
on
for
students
repaying
their
student
loan.
The
second
thing
we're
doing
for
our
post-secondary
students
is
we're
extending
the
grace
period
and
that
that
is
the
period
when
interest
doesn't
accrue
and
when
repayment
on
student
loans
is
not
required,
we're
extending
that
period
from
six
months
to
one
year.
D
We
think
that's
important
so
that
new
graduates
can
get
their
feet
under
them
that
they
don't
have
to
be
looking
over
their
shoulder
at
a
student
loan.
That's
you
know
increasing
in
interest
costs,
and
they
can,
you
know,
get
started
on
their
career,
ideally
get
settled
in
their
community
and
before
they
have
to
start
worrying
about
the
repayment
of
student
loan.
We're
also
increasing
the
threshold
for
the
repayment
assistance
program
and
that's
an
assistance
program
where
that
that
supports
students
who
are
paying
back
student
loans.
D
Historically,
the
threshold
to
be
eligible
for
that
program
was
25
000
per
year
in
terms
of
annual
income,
we're
moving
that
up
to
40
000
a
year
again,
just
given
inflationary
pressures.
If,
if
there
are
graduates
that
are
earning
less
than
forty
thousand
dollars
a
year,
they
can
receive
assistance
through
this
repayment
assistance
program
with
respect
to
student
loans.
But
you
know
there's
you
know
there
are
other
things.
D
One
thing
we're
doing
in
this
budget
of
course-
and
this
was
announced
earlier,
but
it
Bears
repeating
it's
it's
reflected
in
this
budget
is
the
fact
that
we're
re-indexing.
You
know
many
many
social
programs
programs
that
were
paused
earlier
and
we
are
indexing
our
personal
tax
system
and
again,
firstly,
to
be
complete.
You
transparent,
that's
a
commitment
we
made
to
albertans
when
we
paused
indexing.
We
said
when
we
got
our
fiscal
house
in
order.
We
would
be
re-indexing
the
programs,
as
well
as
our
personal
tax
system,
so
that's
number
one
but
number
two.
D
It
comes
at
a
very
appropriate
time
at
a
time
when
we
see
significant
inflation
and
here's
the
good
news
about
our
timing.
Our
indexing
decision
will
capture
that
big
inflationary
year
of
of
six
percent.
So
you
know
in
terms
of
payments
to
Ace
recipients,
they're
going
up
by
six
percent
this
year,
which
is
a
hundred
dollars
a
month
or
Alberta.
Seniors
benefit
is
going
up,
family
and
child
tax
credit
is
going
up
and,
of
course,
our
personal
tax
system
is
being
indexed
to
accommodate
this
big
rise
in
in
inflation
and
CPI.
G
D
D
July
on
our
indexation
of
the
personal
tax
system
is
going
to
provide
additional
tax
savings
for
albertans
of
676
million
dollars.
The
supports
for
post-secondary
students,
just
in
that
in
this
upcoming
year
alone,
is
going
to
be
38
million.
It
will
be
70
million
thereafter,
every
fiscal
year,
our
our
electricity,
natural
gas
rebates,
are
projected
to
be
48
million
dollars
and
I
have
to
say
those
rebates
over
the
course
of
the
last.
D
This
fiscal
plan,
including
last
year,
have
been
close
to
a
billion
dollars,
so
very
significant
support
for
utility
rebates,
again
indexation
of
social
programs,
almost
200
million
dollars,
the
direct
affordability
payments.
These
are
direct
support
payments,
we're
making
to
families
with
children
we're
making
to
Alberta
seniors.
Many
who
are
on
a
fixed
income
and
making
two
are
most
vulnerable,
will
cost
547
million
dollars
we're
increasing
wages
for
those
who
work
in
our
social
sector,
and
this
was
again
very
necessary.
Given
the
inflation
pressure,
that's
going
to
be
costing
110
million.
D
G
G
So
but
here's
a
question
for
you:
how
long
do
you
expect
that
albertans
are
going
to
require
inflation
and
affordability
relief
measures
like
the
ones
that
have
been
talked
about,
especially
you
know,
utilities,
gas,
tax,
Etc?
We
know
that
the
gas
tax
reduction
or
I
guess
right
now.
It's
an
elimination.
Thank.
B
H
Is
it
not
the
case
that
sometimes
some
ideas
are
just
not
worth
spending
millions
of
dollars
of
new
analysis
on?
Are
we
doing
analysis
of
publicly
funded
flights
to
the
Moon
deep
sea
education,
delivery
for
K-12
education
like
at
some
point,
we
have
to
dismiss
ideas
because
they
are
expensive
and
probably
unrealistic,
so
was
where.
Why
are
we
not
at
that
point
with
this
work,
and
why
is
it
still
in
the
the
business
plan
as
Point
number
two,
when
it's
clearly
just
incredibly
expensive
and
inefficient.
D
So
so
chair,
this
work
is
going
to
be
done
at
very
low
cost
within
our
department,
and
it's
not
reflected
in
that
increased
budget
line
that
the
member
raised.
It's
actually
that
this
work
is
being
done
in
another
department
and
will
will
not
be
particularly
costly
at
all.
But
the
reason
we're
doing
the
work
is
albertans
have
the
question
this.
This
was
a
question
that
came
up
at
the
Fair
Deal
panel
and
and
as
the
parallel
panel
traveled
around
the
province.
Many
albertans
had
the
question.
D
You
know
what
are
the
opportunities,
what
are
the
costs
with
an
Alberta
Revenue
Agency,
and
so
that's
why
we're
doing
the
work?
We
can
do
the
work
at
it
at
you
know
a
much
lower
cost
than
understanding
what
public
flights
cost
to
go
to
the
Moon
I
can
I
can
tell
you
that
so
we're
going
to
get
this
work
done.
Albertans
have
the
question
and
it
will
be
important
that
that
albertans
again
can
understand
the
costs
and
opportunities
with
respect
to
an
opener,
Revenue
Agency.
That
would
effectively
administer
a
personal
Alberta
tax
system.
H
So
this
idea
has
been
circulating,
as
the
minister
points
out
for
some
time
through
Fair
Deal
panel
and
and
what
have
you
it's
been
circulating
even
before
that
for
many
years,
I
remember
when
Ian
McClellan
chaired
a
little
panel
on
some
of
these
sort
of
firewall
adjacent
ideas
back
in
the
was
it
late.
90S
early
2000s
and
government
dismissed
him
at
the
time.
Some
of
these
things
have
been
around
a
long
time.
So
clearly,
the
minister
has
the
answer
to
this
one.
H
Why
is
it
still
then
appearing
in
a
business
plan?
It
was
here
last
year
as
or
it's
been
around
for
a
while.
It
was
certainly
a
recommendation
of
the
Fair
Deal
panel
and
the
minister
said
that
it's
a
low-cost
low
resource
work
to
do,
and
he
was
fairly
unequivocal
about
how
expensive
it
is.
So
why
haven't
we
just
said
to
albertans
yeah?
This
is
super
expensive,
we're
not
doing
it
next
topic.
H
Why
won't
we
just
rule
it
out
and
use
governments
limited
time
and
resources,
I
always
used
to
say
I
in
government
that
after
money,
the
most
scarce
resource
is
a
a
Minister's
time
and
government
time.
So
why
are
we
still
sort
of
perennially
studying
this
recommendation
that
is
really
really
Bonkers
expensive.
D
Again,
chair
we're
pulling
we're
pulling
our
work
together.
It's
not
going
to
be
particularly
expensive
to
pull
this
body
of
work
together
and
and
to
be
transparent
with
albertans
many
albertans
have
the
question
around
an
Alberta
Revenue
Agency
and
our
own
tax
system.
They
see
what
Quebec
does
and
I
think
that's
what
piques
the
interest
of
of
many
albertans,
and
so
we
owe
it
to
them
to
do
the
work
and
and
we're
intent
on
doing
it.
D
It
wasn't
in
my
business
plan
last
year,
so
we're
just
doing
the
work
now
and
and
we
we
will
get
this
work
completed.
The
Fair
Deal
panel
considered
this
question.
They
didn't
make
the
recommendation
to
pursue
it,
but
they
considered
the
question
and
I
think
the
fact
that
the
question
was
there
is
indicative
of
the
fact
that
many
albertans
have
the
question:
what
are
the
opportunities
and
costs
of
an
Alberta,
Revenue,
Agency
and
and
personalized
Alberta
tax
system?
We're
going
to
do
that?
Work.
D
H
Well,
I
mean
asking
questions
that
we
know
are
expensive
and
time
consuming
to
answer.
But
let's
move
on
to
the
CPP
question,
it
was
reported
that
there
would
be
a
referendum
in
2024.
So
why
not
in
2023
when
we
are
doing
an
election
exercise
anyway,
and
can
we
expect
the
CPP
report
before
that
or
not?
What
is
the
expectation
here.
D
So
so
I
guess
in
terms
of
timing.
Firstly,
we
received
this
data
set
in
December
and
the
work
that
our
actuary
is.
Our
actuary
is
used
to
build
our
to
put
together
the
report
to
date
was
a
data
set
from
2018,
and
so
we
were
really
pleased
to
receive
this
current
data
set
and
the
work
will
be
done
in
May.
So
realistically,
this
report
will
be
released
sometime
after
the
end
of
May
and
I
know.
Many
albertans
are
looking
forward
to
the
results
of
the
report.
D
One
one
thing
that
will
be
important:
it
will
be
important
that
when
we
release
the
report
there,
you
know
many
albertans
will
have
lots
to
say
about
about
the
concept
of
an
Alberta
pension
plan.
I,
believe
you
know,
the
conclusions
drawn
in
this
report
will
be
pretty
compelling.
That's
my
expectation,
but
we
need
to
ensure
that
we're
offering
significant
time
for
albertans
to
really
look
at
all
the
information
in
front
of
them
so
to
speed
this
thing
up.
D
Try
to
do
it,
you
know
all
before
the
election
in
May
I
think
would
be
disingenuous
and
irresponsible.
We
think
albertans
need
to
have.
You
know
sufficient
time
to
evaluate
this
important
question
and
again:
I
will
say
this
in
a
word
of
pension
plan.
I
believe
holds
great
promise
for
albertans
in
the
future,
but
we'll
let
the
report
speak
for
itself.
B
Well,
thank
you
very
much
if
there's
no
further
questions,
I
apologize
for
the
interrupting,
but
I
must
advise
the
committee
that
the
time
allotted
for
this
portion
of
consideration
of
the
ministry's
estimates
has
concluded
I'd
like
to
remind
committee
members
that
we
are
scheduled
to
meet
next
this
afternoon
at
3
30
pm
to
continue
our
consideration
of
the
estimates
of
the
ministry
of
Treasury
board
and
finance.
Thank
you.
Everyone.
This
meeting
is
adjourned.
B
A
A
A
A
A
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A
A
A
A
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A
A
L
L
Hello
and
welcome
to
the
Alberta
legislature's
online
tour.
My
name
is
Matt
and
I'm,
one
of
the
historical
interpreters.
That's
going
to
show
you
around
now
to
start
the
tour,
we're
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
history
of
the
legislature
grounds
themselves.
Now,
strangely
enough,
this
spot
by
the
North
Saskatchewan
River
has
actually
been
used
for
thousands
and
thousands
of
years
as
a
place
of
democracy
and
celebrations.
You
see
way
before
Europeans
ever
stepped
foot
in
this
land.
It
was
used
by
many
different
First
Nations.
L
In
fact,
the
nahiawak
had
a
word
for
this
stretch
of
land
that
they
called
pejon,
which
roughly
means
a
place
to
gather
or
a
meeting
place,
and
when
they
would
meet
here
they
would
hold
marriage
ceremonies.
They
would
have
annual
celebrations
like
sun
dances,
they
would
discuss
politics
and
they
would
trade
with
one
another.
L
Now,
speaking
of
trade,
eventually,
when
the
fur
trade
would
move
this
far
west,
the
Hudson's
Bay
Company
would
establish
their
Fifth
and
final
rendition
of
Fort
Edmonton
in
a
spot,
just
south
of
where
the
legislature
building
sits
today
and
in
its
Heyday
Fort
Edmonton
was
a
hub
of
trade
between
the
European
fur
Traders
and
the
First
Nations
and
metis
peoples.
In
fact
the
nahiwa
came
here.
So
often
they
had
a
word
to
refer
to
Fort
Edmonton,
and
that
was
amiscochi
waska
Hagen,
which
roughly
means
Beaver,
Hills
house.
L
It
belonged
to
the
Northwest
Territories
of
Canada,
and
only
after
years
and
years
of
campaign
for
prophethood,
that
the
federal
government
finally
Grant
the
request
and
on
September
1st
1905,
the
provinces
of
Saskatchewan
and
Alberta,
were
formed
now
in
Alberta's
case.
They
needed
a
capital
city.
So,
a
few
years
later,
in
1907
they
started
construction
of
the
legislature.
Building
in
1912
they
officially
opened
the
building
and
ever
since
then,
this
spot
has
been
the
center
of
provincial
democracy
here
in
Alberta.
L
Hello
and
welcome
inside
the
Alberta
legislature
now,
when
you
visit
the
legislature
as
a
guest,
the
first
thing
that
you're
going
to
do
is
walk
through
our
security
and
when
you
do
you'll,
look
up
and
you'll
see
the
statue
of
this
lovely
woman
right
here
now.
This
is
Princess
Louise,
Caroline
Alberta
and
she
is
who
our
province
is
named
after.
She
was
the
fourth
daughter
of
Queen
Victoria
and
a
member
of
the
British
royal
family.
Now
Louise
wasn't
your
typical
Royal.
In
fact,
in
those
days
she
was
known
as
a
bit
of
a
rebel.
L
She
believed
in
women's
rights
and
shared
her
opinions
publicly
becoming
a
bit
of
an
activist.
She
also
rebelled
against
the
Royal
Norm
when
it
came
time
for
her
to
pick
a
husband
for
Royal
standards,
it
was
expected
that
she
would
marry
a
prince
or
someone
else
with
Royal
Blood,
although
none
of
the
suitors
at
the
time
really
met
her
standards
for
a
match.
So
she
married
a
man
named
John
Douglas,
Sutherland,
Campbell,
The
Marquis
of
Lauren.
L
He
wasn't
a
commoner
by
any
means,
but
he
definitely
wasn't
someone
who
would
be
suitable
to
marry
a
princess
like
her
so
to
help
Elevate
his
status.
He
was
given
the
title
of
governor
general
of
Canada
and
he
served
with
that
title
from
1878
until
1883.,
while
John
Douglas
was
governor
general.
He
helped
name
parts
of
this
country.
In
fact
he
came
to
this
part
of
the
country,
saw
the
Rocky.
L
Now,
if
you're
sitting
there
thinking,
that's
a
terrible
name,
well,
you're
right
and
the
government
at
the
time
agreed
with
you.
So
they
said
no,
no
John
Douglas.
We
don't
like
that
name,
try
again
and
Princess
Louise
was
actually
the
one
who
got
involved
and
said.
If
you're
going
to
name
it
after
me,
can
you
use
Alberta?
Because
not
only
does
it
honor
me,
it
honors
my
father
Prince
Albert,
who
she
was
very
close
to
and
who
died.
M
This
is
the
main
rotunda
of
the
legislature.
Building
this
is
the
first
space
you
come
into
once
you're
finished
with
all
the
security.
It's
also
where
we
hold
lots
of
events
and
ceremonies
throughout
the
year,
including
celebrate
the
season,
which
is
a
number
of
weeks
in
December,
where
choirs
and
other
musical
groups
can
come
into
the
legislature
and
perform
right
on
our
grand
staircase.
M
Now,
you'll
also
see
right
behind
me,
a
fountain
which
was
first
installed
in
1959
to
celebrate
the
first
official
visit
of
Queen
Elizabeth
II
and
above
our
heads
in
the
Rotunda.
You
can
see
a
bunch
of
flakes.
These
flags
are
regimental
standards.
They
represent
different
military
units
from
here
in
Alberta,
but
what
is
the
actual
purpose
of
the
legislature
building?
M
M
These
are
the
people
elected
to
represent
everyone
across
the
province
of
Alberta,
and
they
do
all
of
this
work
right
up
the
grand
staircase
and
inside
the
chamber
which
we'll
be
seeing
later
on
today.
The
legislature
didn't
exist
until
1912,
but
the
Legislative
Assembly
wanted
to
start
meeting
as
soon
as
1906..
So
there
was
a
number
of
years
where
they
had
to
find
other
places
to
hold
session.
M
M
They
covered
up
the
ice
with
sawdust
and
carpets,
and
that's
where
the
elected
members
sat
and
3
000
people
from
across
the
province
came
to
watch
and
receded
up
in
the
bleachers
part
of
why
they
chose
such
an
unconventional
location,
because
it
could
accommodate
that
many
people
who
were
excited
to
see
their
government
in
action
for
the
first
time.
So
our
assembly
moved
from
hockey
rink
to
Schoolhouse
and
then
finally
around
November
of
1911.
M
They
started
meeting
here
in
the
legislature
building,
but
we've
already
said
that
the
legislature
wasn't
completed
until
1912.,
so
they
actually
moved
in
a
little
bit
before
it
was
ready
to
go,
and
so,
during
one
of
those
first
few
months
here,
a
bit
of
plaster
actually
crumbled
off
one
of
the
pillars
in
the
chamber
and
fell
right
next
to
Premier
sifton's
head.
He
wasn't
hurt,
he
did
try
to
claim.
M
Despite
that
setback,
the
legislative
assembly
of
Alberta
has
used
this
legislature
building
for
session
ever
since,
and
it's
also
a
place
where
members
of
the
public
can
come
in
either
to
watch
session
in
action
or
to
come
for
a
tour
with
myself
and
my
colleagues.
Now
we
have
one
more
statue
to
check
out
here
on
the
main
floor
before
we
start
moving
up
to
check
out
the
rest
of
the
building.
N
Hello,
everyone,
my
name
is
silverius
and
I'll,
be
telling
you
all
about
our
statue
of
Chief
Crowfoot.
Here
Chief
Crowfoot
was
a
head
chief
of
the
nitsatopee,
as
well
as
his
signatory
of
treaty
number,
seven,
the
nitsatopee
or
in
English
the
Blackfoot
Confederacy,
is
a
government
or
Alliance
of
several
First
Nations
found
here
in
the
province
of
Alberta,
it's
very
similar
to
how
a
country
might
have
several
provinces,
States
and
territories.
N
The
Blackfoot
Confederacy
is
made
up
of
the
kainai
or
blood
Nation,
the
sixth
sikka
or
Blackfoot
nation,
and
the
picani
or
the
northern
and
southern
Pagan
Nations
an
on-chief
Prophet
statue.
You
can
see
several
items
that
are
very
important
to
traditional
nitati
ways
of
life,
so
in
his
left
arm
there
he
is
holding
a
pipe
bag
which
likely
would
have
held
a
pipe
and
a
stem
as
well
as
a
little
bag
of
tobacco.
N
This
is
because
in
itsatopee
culture,
it's
a
very
common
practice,
both
historically
and
today,
to
exchange
a
small
gift.
At
the
very
first
time
you
meet
someone
like
how
you
might
shake
hands
the
very
first
time
you
meet
someone.
So
the
fact
that
we
see
Chief
Crawford
with
his
pipe
bag
likely
shows
that
he
was
welcoming
to
and
willing
to
work
with
new
people
and
because
his
statue
is
here
in
the
Alberta
legislature
rotunda.
N
It
shows
that
the
building
and
the
people
who
work
here
are
also
welcoming
to
and
willing
to
work
with
new
people
in
his
right
arm.
There
he's
holding
a
riding
crop.
This
is
because
horses
in
traditional
nitati
culture
are
a
sign
of
wealth
and
status
and
as
an
older
man,
Chief
Crowfoot
held
very
high
status
in
his
Nation,
owning
several
hundred
horses
at
once,
and
it
was
this
status
as
well
as
some
of
his
diplomatic
qualities
as
a
person
that
eventually
led
him
to
becoming
one
of
the
head
Chiefs
of
his
people.
N
This
is
a
little
bit
in
contrast
to
his
life
as
a
younger
man.
As
a
younger
man,
we
know
Chief
Crowfoot
as
a
very
intelligent
and
brave
Warrior.
By
the
time
he
was
20
years
old.
He
had
fought
in
19
battles
and
had
gained
several
injuries
and
Honors
that
helped
establish
that
Prestige
later
on
in
life,
and
it
was
this
mix
of
qualities.
N
It
was
the
fact
that
he
was
both
a
warrior
and
a
diplomat
that
eventually
led
him
to
becoming
one
of
the
head
Chiefs
of
his
people
and
persuading
them
to
take
treaty
number
seven
speaking
of
treaty
seven.
In
the
center
of
his
chest
there
we
can
see
Crawford
wearing
a
treaty
medal.
This
was
given
to
him
when
he
decided
to
Mark
treaty
7.
and
treaty.
N
Seven
is
one
of
the
three
major
treaties
found
throughout
the
province
of
Alberta,
the
other
two
being
treaty,
eight
in
Northern,
Alberta
and
treaty
number
six
right
here
in
central
Alberta,
which
includes
the
land
the
legislature
building
is
built
on
now.
At
the
time
of
their
signing,
there
was
a
lot
of
reluctance
and
hesitancy
from
a
bunch
of
different
First
Nations
Chiefs
about
whether
or
not
they
thought
it
was
a
good
idea
to
take
treaty.
N
But
a
few
years
before,
marking
Trudy
seven
Chief
Crowfoot
met
and
became
friends
with
a
man
named
James
McLeod,
who
was
an
assistant
commissioner
for
the
Northwest
Mounted
Police
James
McLeod,
as
well
as
a
few
other
officers
from
the
Northwest
Mounted
Police
helped
the
knitsatopee
chase,
those
American
traders
back
to
the
United
States,
and
so
it
was
crowfoot's
good
feelings
towards
the
Northwest
Mounted
Police
and
the
fact
that
he
knew
his
world
was
gradually
changing.
That
led
him
to
ultimately
take
treaty
seven
and
convince
his
fellow
head
Chiefs
to
do
the
same.
N
The
fact
that
we
have
Chief
Crowfoot
statue
here
in
the
Alberta
legislature
rotunda
reminds
us
that
in
Alberta
we
all
live
on
and
benefit
from
treaty
land.
He
also
reminds
us
of
the
incredibly
complicated
histories
of
the
treaties.
These
treaties
helped
with
the
foundation
a
very
important
institutions
like
our
very
own
government
system.
N
There
is
work
being
done
to
reconcile
these
histories
and
make
living
in
Canada
a
more
Equitable
place
for
everyone,
including
the
Truth
and
Reconciliation
commission's
94,
calls
to
action
to
learn
more
about
these
initiatives
as
well
as
the
histories
of
the
treaties.
You
can
look
them
up
online
or
hopefully,
you'll
eventually
be
able
to
take
a
tour
of
the
Alberta
legislature
from
a
Heritage
interpreter.
Just
like
me,
at
one
of
Alberta's,
prominent
First
Nations
leaders
we're
going
to
take
a
deeper
look
at
the
leader
of
Alberta's
government
system.
The
premier
e.
M
Along
this
half
of
the
third
floor,
we
have
our
gallery
of
former
premiers
of
Alberta.
This
Gallery
is
set
right
in
front
of
the
premier's
office,
which
stretches
off
through
the
East
wing
of
the
building.
These
portraits
are
done
as
a
way
to
commemorate
a
person's
time
as
head
of
the
provincial
government,
so
traditionally
they
aren't
started
until
a
person
has
finished
their
time.
M
So
how
does
a
person
become
premier
of
Alberta?
Well,
first,
you
have
to
be
made
leader
of
a
provincial
political
party,
and
then
that
party
needs
to
win
the
most
seats
in
the
election.
Of
course,
it's
also
important
that
a
premier
run
as
an
MLA
in
a
specific
constituency
of
Alberta,
although
it's
technically
possible
for
a
person
to
be
Premier
without
being
a
member
of
the
legislative
assembly,
makes
it
very
difficult
to
do
the
job
when
you're
not
able
to
sit
in
on
the
chamber
during
session.
M
In
Alberta,
we
don't
set
a
maximum
limit
on
how
long
a
person
is
allowed
to
be
in
the
role
of
Premier.
Although
we
hold
elections
every
four
years
or
so
as
long
as
a
person
maintains
the
confidence
of
their
party
and
their
party
keeps
winning
the
elections,
sometimes
a
person
can
manage
to
stay
at
Premier
for
a
very
long
time.
This
is
what
happened
with
Premier
Ernest
Manning.
He
was
in
the
role
from
1943
to
1968.,
that's
25
years
as
head
of
the
provincial
government
before
he
decided
to
step
down.
M
N
N
N
The
lieutenant
governor
is
appointed
by
the
governor
general
of
Canada,
based
on
recommendations
from
the
prime
minister
of
Canada
and
the
lieutenant
governor
can
come
from
all
backgrounds.
But
what
matters
most
when
picking
a
person
for
this
role
is
the
positive
impact
they've
had
on
the
province
and
its
people?
N
What
exactly
does
this
person
do
in
our
government
structure?
First
and
foremost,
they
represent
Queen
Elizabeth,
even
though
Canada
is
an
independent
nation.
Queen
Elizabeth
is
still
technically
our
head
of
state
she's
at
the
very
tip
top
of
our
government
structure,
even
above
the
prime
minister
of
Canada.
N
This
means
that
all
laws
created
in
Canada,
as
well
as
its
provinces
and
territory,
need
the
Queen's
approval
before
they
can
become
official.
Obviously,
this
isn't
really
possible,
given
the
fact
that
Queen
Elizabeth
lives
halfway
across
the
world.
So
the
lieutenant
governor
stands
in
for
the
queen
and
approves
the
laws
created
in
the
legislature.
N
Beyond
this
they
hold
a
bunch
of
ceremonial
duties
in
the
legislature,
such
as
speech
from
the
throne.
This
is
a
really
Grand
ceremony
where
the
lieutenant
governor
is
allowed
to
enter
into
the
chambers
now,
because
the
lieutenant
governor
isn't
elected
by
Alberta
citizens,
they're
technically
not
allowed
into
the
chambers
without
permission
once
they're
inside
they
read
a
speech
written
by
the
current
government
that
outlines
that
government's
goals
for
the
upcoming
session.
N
N
N
That's
also
why
you
see
them
carrying
a
sword
and
no,
they
never
use
the
sword
in
any
of
their
ceremonial
duties.
You
probably
also
noticed
the
gold
embroidery
here
that
embroidery
is
made
with
real
gold
and
even
though
these
people
represent
the
queen
herself,
they
have
to
buy
this
uniform
all
on
their
own.
N
His
regalia
includes
a
full
Buckskin
suit,
a
beaded
tie
and
a
feathered
headdress,
and
it's
thanks
to
the
honorable
steinhauer
that
today's
Lieutenant
Governors
get
to
choose
whatever
they
want
to
wear
and
whatever
they
feel
is
appropriate.
He
also
shows
that
the
lieutenant
governor
can
be
a
royal
representative
and
a
representative
of
the
people
of
the
province.
N
L
Next,
up
on
our
tour
of
the
Alberta
legislature,
we're
going
to
look
at
some
objects
that
play
an
important
role
in
our
daily
proceedings.
First,
up
we're
going
to
look
at
Alberta's,
mace
now,
I
know
what
you're
wondering.
Why
do
we
have
a
big
fancy?
Gold
Club
I
mean
yes,
it
looks
nice,
but
what
purpose
does
it
serve
the
legislature?
Well,
the
mace
believe
it
or
not,
is
actually
an
incredibly
powerful
symbol.
L
So
since
it
represents
all
of
us
as
a
province,
we
wanted
to
make
it
as
nice
as
possible.
In
1956,
we
commissioned
this
mace
for
a
budget
of
around
three
thousand
dollars
in
1956.
That
would
be
like
buying
a
new
car.
It's
made
out
of
silver
and
gold.
It
has
our
provincial
flower,
the
Wild
Rose
carved
into
the
handle
bison
heads
carved
into
the
side
and
on
the
very
top
we
have
Canada's
national
animal,
the
beaver.
L
But
what
has
to
be
my
favorite
part
are
the
gemstones
along
the
crown
when
they
made
this
mace.
They
wanted
to
do
something
very
fun
and
unique,
so
they
created
a
secret
code
with
these
Stones.
If
you
take
the
first
letter
of
each
Stone,
you
spell
out
the
province's
name,
so
we
have
an
amethyst
lazarite,
Bloodstone,
Emerald,
Ruby,
topaz
and
egg.
It
Alberta
pretty
fun
hey!
L
L
L
Eventually,
someone
realized
that
they
needed
a
mace
two
weeks
before
they
were
going
to
meet
for
the
very
first
time.
Now,
that's
not
a
lot
of
time
to
make
something
as
beautiful
and
well
crafted
as
a
mace.
The
gold
one
took
six
months,
but
they
eventually
found
a
man
named
Rufus
e
Butterworth.
He
was
a
carpenter
by
trade
and
he
thought
that
he
could
do
the
job
now.
Butterworth
did
not
have
gold
or
silver
or
gemstones,
so
he
had
to
improvise.
He
used
whatever
scrap
materials
he
could
find
to
get
the
job
done
now.
L
So
yes,
our
first
mace,
our
symbol
of
authority
and
power,
was
made
with
scrap
materials,
pretty
ingenious
if
I
say
so
myself.
The
last
item
that
we're
going
to
look
at
is
the
black
Rod.
Now,
if
we
were
a
bicameral
legislature,
meaning
we
had
two
houses
like
a
senate,
then
we
would
use
the
black
Rod
instead
of
the
mace.
But
since
we
are
a
unicameral
legislature
with
one
house,
we
use
the
black
rod
for
a
very
specific
purpose
when
the
queen
or
her
provincial
representative,
the
lieutenant
governor,
wants
to
enter
our
provincial
chamber.
L
A
L
M
Here
we
have
our
main
chamber
doors.
As
we've
mentioned,
the
chamber
is
the
room
where
the
Legislative
Assembly
meets
to
debate.
All
of
the
laws
that
govern
the
province
of
Alberta
on
and
around
the
chamber
doors.
You
can
see
lots
of
our
provincial
symbols,
including
a
few
versions
of
our
provincial
Crest,
that
Shield
shape
that
you
also
see
on
our
flag.
The
crest
features
the
Saint
George
cross
on
top
an
English
flag
that
served
lots
of
different
purposes,
but
here
it
was
used
as
a
symbol
by
the
Hudson's
Bay
Company,
underneath
the
cross.
M
M
You
can
see
another
version
of
our
Crest
up
above
the
doors
as
part
of
our
coat
of
arms
surrounding
the
crest.
We
have
three
different
animals
up
top
under
the
crown
we
have
a
beaver
symbol
of
Canada
and
representing
our
history
with
the
fur
trade
to
the
left.
We
have
a
lion
representing
the
British
Monarchy
and
to
the
right
representing
the
province
itself.
We
have
the
pronghorn
antelope.
M
Now
they
are
a
native
species
to
the
province
of
Alberta,
but
you
don't
find
them
running
around
the
legislature
grounds
here
they
live
a
little
bit
further
south
closer
to
the
U.S
border.
One
fun
fact
about
the
Pronghorn,
although
this
doesn't
really
relate
to
the
province,
is
that
although
it
may
look
like
a
deer,
the
Pronghorn
is
actually
related
to
the
giraffe.
M
So
there
you
go
our
Alberta
equivalent
of
the
Majestic
giraffe.
Underneath
these
animals
we
have
another
big
provincial
symbol,
that
is,
the
Wild
Rose,
our
provincial
flower.
That's
another
image
that
you'll
see
throughout
the
legislature
building,
including
right
above
our
heads
on
the
ceiling
in
this
Alcove
finishing
off
the
coat
of
arms.
We've
got
our
Latin
motto
for
the
province
Fortis
at
Lieber,
which
means
strong
and
free.
It's
something
we've
taken
from
the
national
anthem
and
it's
also
sort
of
a
hope
for
the
province
and
now
the
moment,
you've
all
been
waiting
for.
N
This
is
the
room
in
the
Alberta
legislature,
where
all
the
action
happens,
it's
really
the
heart
of
the
building.
We
have
a
lot
to
show
you
in
here.
So
let's
get
started
while
a
law
is
being
debated
and
before
it
is
given
Royal
Ascent
by
the
lieutenant
governor,
we
call
it
a
bill.
The
process
of
debating
and
refining
a
bill
is
called
session
to
make
sure
that
session
runs
smoothly.
We
have
a
position
called
the
speaker
of
the
house.
N
This
person
sits
in
the
chair
at
the
head
of
the
room
and
acts
as
a
kind
of
moderator
or
a
referee.
Essentially
they
make
sure
that
everybody
in
the
chamber
follows
the
rules
for
more
detailed
information
about
the
Speaker
of
the
House.
Their
role
and
responsibilities
check
out
the
video
section
dedicated
to
that
position.
N
N
The
opposition
can
actually
be
made
up
of
multiple
political
parties
depending
on
how
the
votes
fall
during
an
election,
but
the
political
party
that
wins
the
second
most
votes
overall
forms
the
official
opposition.
The
current
official
opposition
is
formed
by
the
new
Democratic
Party.
This
long
table
in
the
center
is
where
the
clerk
and
table
officers
sit.
N
N
They
come
from
all
regions
of
the
province
as
well
as
all
backgrounds
and
because
it
would
be
impossible
for
every
single
albertan
citizen
to
come
to
this
building
to
create
laws
together.
The
mlas
act
as
representatives
for
every
individual
in
their
region
because
the
mlas
represent
you.
You
are
always
more
than
welcome
to
watch
session
and
you
can
do
that
in
one
of
the
two
galleries.
N
The
gallery
above
the
opposition
is
called
the
members
gallery
and
The
Identical
gallery
on
the
opposite
side
of
the
chamber
is
called
the
public
gallery.
If
the
assembly
is
in
session,
these
galleries
are
always
open
to
the
public.
You
don't
need
to
call
ahead
and
reserve
a
spot.
You
don't
need
to
pay
and
you
can
come
and
go
as
you
please
so
long
as
you
remain
quiet.
N
Keep
in
mind,
however,
that
you
are
only
allowed
to
watch
in
these
galleries.
Things
like
heckling
and
Applause
are
not
permitted
from
information
about
hours
that
the
assembly
is
sitting.
You
can
check
out
our
website
if
you
can't
make
it
to
watch
session
in
person.
You
can
watch
it
on
TV
on
various
social
media
platforms
or
through
our
website
the
cameras
you
see,
recessed
into
the
walls
record
session
from
start
to
finish
every
single
day.
N
Also,
every
word
said
in
the
chamber
is
recorded
and
then
typed
up
into
an
official
document
called
Hansard,
which
is
also
released
to
the
public.
There
are
a
couple
other
galleries
in
the
room
here
above
the
speaker's
chair.
We
have
the
media
gallery.
This
is,
of
course,
reserved
for
media
representatives
and
journalists,
so
they
can
take
notes
during
session
on
the
opposite
side
of
the
room
above
the
sergeant-at-arms.
We
have
the
speakers
gallery.
N
N
The
two
pieces
of
art
you
see
hanging
in
the
speakers
gallery
and
the
media
Gallery
are
the
newest
additions
to
the
chamber
in
English.
They
are
called
sunrise
and
sunset
and
they
were
commissioned
from
the
renowned
Alex
janvier,
a
Denny
suing
artist
from
the
cold
lake
First
Nations.
One
of
the
things
we
believe
they
highlight
is
the
fact
that
treaties,
6,
7
and
8
are
legal,
binding
agreements
so
long
as
the
sun
shines,
the
Grass
Grows
and
the
river
flows.
N
The
other
prominent
piece
of
art
we
see
in
the
chamber
is
the
stained
glass
of
Princess
Louise,
the
woman.
Our
Province
was
named
after
for
more
detailed
information
about
the
princess
check
out
the
video
section
dedicated
to
her
from
here
we're
going
to
move
on
and
learn
a
little
bit
more
about
a
role.
I
touched
on
briefly
in
this
video,
the
Speaker
of
the
House.
L
Next,
we're
going
to
talk
about
an
important
figure
in
the
Alberta
legislature,
the
speaker
of
the
house.
Now
behind
me,
you
can
see
some
past
speakers
of
our
Province
and
in
their
portraits,
you
can
see
that
they're
wearing
traditional
court-styled
robes.
This
is
because
their
role
is
actually
similar
to
that
of
a
judge.
L
L
L
However,
only
a
select
few
will
ever
get
this
honor
and
after
the
list
of
nominees
is
approved
and
they
accept
their
nominations.
Then
every
MLA
participates
in
a
secret
ballot
vote.
This
means
that
no
one
knows
who
you
voted
for
so
you're
free
to
vote,
for
whoever
you
think
will
be
the
best
speaker
of
the
province.
L
L
This
tradition
comes
from
a
time
in
British
history,
when
the
role
of
the
speaker
was
not
necessarily
a
safe
one.
You
see
the
speaker
used
to
actually
have
to
report
the
proceedings
of
parliament
directly
to
the
king
and
if
the
king
didn't
like
what
the
speaker
told
him
well,
let's
just
say
that
this
is
a
time
when
you
didn't
want
to
make
the
king
angry.
So
it's
said
that
speakers
of
old
used
to
hide
in
their
homes
only
going
to
the
chamber
when
they
are
forcibly
dragged
to
do
so
now.
L
Luckily,
today,
the
role
of
the
speaker
is
a
safe
one
and
they
are
free
to
approach
the
position
with
the
respect
and
honor
that
the
title
deserves.
Next
we're
going
to
show
you
a
place
that
you
normally
don't
get
to
see
on
tour
shown
to
you
by
the
speaker
of
the
assembly
himself,
The
Honorable,
Nathan,
Cooper,.
O
Hi
speaker,
Cooper
here
and
I
hope,
you're
enjoying
the
tour
of
Alberta's
legislature.
Building
right
now,
you're
in
room,
400
and
room
400
is
actually
the
speaker
suite
and
when
legislatures
were
built
all
across
the
country,
often
it
was
very
difficult
to
travel
to
the
capital,
and
so
one
of
the
benefits
of
being
the
speaker
is
that
they
provided
a
permanent
residence
for
the
speaker
and
that's
the
room
that
we're
in
right.
Now.
O
It's
not
currently
used
as
a
permanent
residence.
Certainly
I
don't
use
it
as
that
and
the
last
permanent
residence
was
actually
in
the
1990s
early
90s.
When
speaker
Carter
was
the
speaker.
He
in
fact
was
the
last
permanent
resident
here.
The
other
very
unique
thing
that
happened
here
is
Speaker.
Dawson
he's
the
longest
serving
speaker
over
26
years.
He
actually
died
right
here
in
the
suite.
O
It
said
that
the
then
Health
Minister,
who
was
an
actual
doctor,
attended
to
him
here
in
the
suite
some
believe
that
he
still
visits
the
suite
late
at
night
when
it's
very
quiet
that
he
can
be
seen
sitting
at
this
very
table.
I,
don't
know
it's
conjecture
and
hearsay
to
me.
I've
never
seen
speaker
Dawson,
but
some
say
that's
the
truth.
O
This
is
a
great
space,
one
of
the
things
that
we
also
use
it
for,
because
it's
not
a
permanent
residence,
is
that
the
speaker
actually
has
a
bunch
of
official
duties
and
they
are
often
hosting
dignitaries,
often
ambassadors
from
other
nations
or
Council
generals,
and
that
they
want
to
build
a
trade
relationship
here
with
the
province
of
Alberta,
and
so
they
want
to
have
an
official
visit.
Sometimes
they
have
that
with
the
premier
or
the
lieutenant
governor,
but
if
they
are
unable,
then
often
the
speaker
will
fulfill
that
duty
to
have
that
first
official
visit.
O
They
then
go
on
to
have
meetings
with
other
government
officials
after
that's
taken
place.
That's
the
primary
purpose
of
this
space
right
here
is
hosting
dignitaries
and
others
who
are
visiting
the
province
of
Alberta
thanks
so
much
for
joining
us
on
the
tour,
not
too
many
people
know
about
this
space,
but
I'm
glad
that
we
were
able
to
share
it
with
you
today
on
the
tour.
M
M
There
was
a
time
when
the
only
people
who
legally
counted
as
persons
were
white
men
over
the
age
of
30
who
owned
a
certain
amount
of
property.
This
meant
that,
among
other
things,
people
outside
of
that
definition,
including
women,
were
not
eligible
to
be
appointed
to
the
Canadian
Senate
Emily
Murphy
was
the
first
female
police
magistrate
in
the
British
Commonwealth.
She
was
appointed
to
that
job
in
1916,
which
happened
to
be
the
same
year.
That
women
in
Alberta
won
the
right
to
vote
in
provincial
elections,
but
because
Murphy
was
not
legally
considered
a
person.
M
Her
appearance
in
court
was
often
challenged
in
1922.
A
group
of
activists
were
pushing
for
Emily
Murphy
to
be
appointed
to
the
Canadian
Senate,
but
this
compelled
the
government
to
come
forward
and
say
that,
due
to
the
definitions
in
the
British
North,
America
Act,
essentially
the
Canadian
Constitution
Emily
Murphy
did
not
count
as
a
qualified
person
and
therefore
couldn't
be
appointed
in
1927
Emily
Murphy
gathered
together
a
group
of
women
later
to
be
known
as
the
famous
five.
This
group
included
herself
Henry
Adam
Weir
Edwards
Irene,
parlb,
Louise,
McKinney
and
Nellie
McClung.
M
No
now,
the
Supreme
Court
is
the
highest
court
within
Canada.
So,
in
order
to
take
this
case
any
further,
these
women
actually
had
to
travel
to
England,
to
speak
to
a
group
known
as
the
privy
Council.
This
isn't
an
option
anymore
for
Canadian
citizens
as
we've
gained
more
independence
from
England,
but
at
the
time,
if
you
were
turned
down
by
the
Supreme
Court,
the
privy
Council
of
the
United
Kingdom
was
your
last
chance
in
1929.
M
Yes,
in
fact,
Lord
John
Sankey,
who
is
the
head
of
the
privy
Council
mentioned
that
the
days
when
women
were
excluded
from
these
public
offices
is
a
relic
of
days,
far
more
barbarous
than
ours,
and
to
those
who
ask,
why
should
we
include
women?
I
say
why
should
we
not
so?
Finally,
the
famous
five
had
won
their
case.
What
later
came
to
be
known
as
the
person's
case
and
women
were
eligible
to
be
appointed
to
the
Canadian
Senate?
In
fact,
the
year
after
the
case
in
1930
Karine
Wilson
became
the
first
Canadian
female
senator.