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From YouTube: Planning & Economic Development – September 11, 2023
Description
Regular meeting of the Asheville City Council's Planning & Economic Development Committee.
Access the agenda and other meeting materials at the City of Asheville website: https://www.ashevillenc.gov/government/city-council-committees/planning-and-economic-development-committee/
Participate before and during the meeting on our public engagement hub: https://publicinput.com/L0226
A
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Q.
If
you'd
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and
at
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time,
I'd
like
to
go
through
the
roll
call
and
introduce
all
of
the
committee
members
and
staff
who
are
participating
virtually
Council
and
staff
as
I
say
your
name,
please
say
a
quick
hello,
councilwoman
Maggie,
Olman
assistant
city
manager,
Ben
Woody,
good.
B
Here
with
you,
okay,
thank
you
and
councilwoman
Sage,
Turner,
okay,
and
at
this
time,
what
we'll
do
is
we
will
call
the
meeting
to
order,
and
the
first
thing
we
like
to
do
is
get
an
approval
of
the
minutes
of
August
minutes.
B
B
Okay,
roll
call
okay,
I'd
like
to
do
Maggie
Allman.
D
B
Councilman
cert
Sage
Turner.
B
And
myself,
I
and
the
motion
passes.
Okay,
we
have
a
couple
of
things
on
the
agenda
today.
We
have
a
light
agenda.
First
thing
we
have
is
the
number
two
item
is
the
Outdoor
ordinance
update
that
will
be
given
by
Dana
Frankel
who's,
a
downtown
project
manager
and
what
she'll
be
doing
is
reviewing
the
proposed
changes
to
the
outdoor
dining
ordinance
and
program,
and
this
will
be
something
that
the
council
we
will
move
on
to
council
if
they
pass
this
with
us,
so
so
at
this
time,
Dana.
Thank
you.
G
Great,
thank
you
vice
mayor
good
afternoon,
Council
I'm
happy
to
be
here
today
to
present
the
proposed
updates,
we're
making
to
the
outdoor
dining
program
and
Chris.
Collins
is
also
joining
me
and
will
present
a
few
slides.
We
also
have
our
Urban
designer
David
Hazard
available.
Should
there
be
a
standards,
questions
specific
to
standards
at
the
end,
so
you
could
go
to
the
next
slide.
Please
so,
starting
with
our
key
takeaways
updates
are
being
made
to
the
city's
outdoor
dining
program
as
applied
to
public
space.
G
G
G
Access
and
Mobility
are
being
prioritized
in
our
new
standards,
along
with
maximum
maximization
of
utilization
of
public
space
and
encouraging
greater
public
benefits
whenever
possible,
and
administrative
management
of
the
program
is
also
being
clarified
and
improved
next
slide.
Please
so.
G
So,
specifically,
what
is
being
updated?
We
have
a
new
outdoor,
dining
ordinance.
We
have
an
expanded
outdoor
dining
program
where
previously
it
just
applied
to
sidewalks.
It
will
now
also
apply
to
utilization
of
public
on-street
parking
spaces,
we're
proposing
updated
fees
and
we'll
be
rolling
out
an
outdoor
dining
guide
that
has
clear
standards
as
well
as
best
practices
and
provides
really
detailed
guidance
for
businesses
next
slide,
please.
G
So
some
key
elements
we're
going
to
dig
a
little
bit
further
into
with
you
today
are
a
new
approach
to
maximizing
use
of
these
spaces
to
in
order
to
encourage
maximum
public
benefit.
We'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
fees
that
we
are
proposing,
some
of
the
key
updates
to
standards,
as
well
as
our
plan
moving
forward
for
process
and
management.
G
Next
slide,
please,
but
first
just
to
take
you
back
a
little
bit
and
talk
about
some
of
the
engagement
we've
done.
That
has
informed
where
we
are
at
this
point
really
prior
to
2019,
but
very
specifically
in
2019
staff
began
working
with
downtown
public
Space
Management
task
force
to
do
a
lot
of
Engagement
around
how
people
experience
public
space
in
the
downtown
environment.
There
was
a
public
survey
done
and
I
just
wanted
to
call
out
two
of
the
things
we
learned
in
that
survey.
G
We
asked
people
what
contributes
to
a
positive
experienced
Hometown
and
the
second
most
rated
thing
people
said
was
outdoor
dining,
so
generally
something
that's
positive.
At
the
same
time,
we
asked
folks
what
was
most
important
to
having
to
their
experience
downtown
and
they
said
unobstructed
sidewalk
space
for
Mobility.
So
these
are
just
examples
we
can
see
how
sometimes
uses
of
public
space
can
with
each
other,
and
it's
why
we
want
to
be
able
to
encourage
maximum
utilization
whenever
possible
and
kind
of
balance
these
uses.
G
So
during
2020
we
responded
quickly
to
enable
businesses
to
utilize
additional
outdoor
spaces,
businesses
and
organizations.
Anyone
located
on
public
streets
and
sidewalks
could
expand
Outdoors
through
an
expedited
process
and
through
this
new
ability
to
use
parking
spaces,
we
did
public
engagement
during
those
programs
in
2020
and
2021.
We
received
and
really
con
continued
to
receive
positive
feedback
about
those
additional
outdoor
dining
areas.
G
In
2021
we
kind
of
took
the
things
we
learned
and
worked
on
some
public
Space
Management
guidelines.
We've
been
continuing
to
work
with
this
task
force
to
look
at
the
different
trade-offs
of
how
different
uses
of
public
space
have
both
you
know
pros
and
cons,
but
also
to
think
about
what
could
and
should
be
prioritized
for
improvements
in
the
future
and
outdoor
dining
has
continued
to
be
prioritized
as
something
that
needs
updates.
G
In
late
2021,
we
had
a
work
session
with
the
downtown
commission,
multimodal
Commission
and
some
of
the
key
questions
that
we
asked.
We've
dug
real
deep
into
outdoor
dining
and
we're
going
to
go
over
some
of
the
the
feedback
that
we
received
at
that
time,
which
has
informed
what
we're
proposing
in
these
updates
and
the
last
time
that
we
engaged
with
Council
on
this
specifically
was
was
with
this
Committee.
In
June
of
2022.
G
So
a
couple
of
the
questions
that
we
got
feedback
on
heading
into
this
process
to
make
updates
is,
is
six
feet
in
clear
space
on
sidewalks
enough.
That's
what
we
require
now
and
and
for
the
most
part,
it's
like
yes,
but
it
depends
because
sometimes
things
kind
of
encroach
into
that
six
feet.
But
if
six
feet
can
be
maintained,
then
yes
should
an
outdoor
dining
permit
fee
be
based
in
part
on
the
amount
of
space
being
used.
Yes,
should
parking
spaces
be
able
to
be
privatized
for
dining
for
the
most
part?
G
Yes,
this
has
been
something
that's
been
popular
and,
for
the
most
part,
very
much
supported
should
permitting
standards
encourage
businesses
to
remove
items
from
the
sidewalk.
When
the
business
is
closed,
it's
kind
of
a
more
Innovative
question
we
heard
yes,
should
there
be
a
cap
and
limit
to
the
number
of
straighteries
downtown,
we
kind
of
heard
no,
you
know,
probably
not
to
start
and
should
parklets
or
straighteries
be
open
to
the
public
when
the
business
is
closed.
We
heard
yes
so
next
slide.
G
So
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
our
approach
to
kind
of
balancing
some
of
these
public
and
private
uses,
we
would
like
to
offer
a
few
options
to
businesses
moving
forward
with
their
new
permits.
They
can
make
the
space
available
outside
of
business
hours.
So
when
they're
closed,
maybe
that's
picnic
tables
that
stay
out
all
the
time
and
there
would
be
signage
indicating
that
they
could
consolidate
I
swapped
option
number
one
at
number
two,
but
they
could
consolidate
the
their
dining
Furniture.
G
So
maybe
you
know
moving
tables
and
chairs
just
adjacent
to
the
storefront
when
the
business
is
closed
and
then
that
sidewalk
opens
back
up
for
busking
or
other
or
Mobility
or
other
uses
option.
Three.
The
space
remains
privatized
for
used
by
that
business
all
the
time,
even
when
the
business
is
closed.
That
is
how
the
outdoor
dining
program
works.
G
Now
we
are
proposing
a
new
annual
fee
of
500
for
that
and
that
that
that
Revenue,
that
would
come
in
could
be
used
in
the
future
towards
supporting
businesses
to
build
streeteries
or
some
other
public
space
improvements
to
be
determined.
But
it's
something
that
we've
been
getting
some
input
on
as
well
and
next
slide.
Please
and
I
think
this
will
be
Chris
talking
about
our
proposed
fees.
E
Everyone
Chris
Collins
with
the
planning
and
Urban
Design
Department
city
of
Asheville
and
Dana,
has
mentioned
the
public.
History
is
a
great
segue
into
talking
about
how
we
went
about
establishing
new
fees
for
this
program,
so
fees
are
being
updated
in
order
to
align
with
the
values
of
the
program
and
in
enable
improved
operations,
and
we
have
been
researching
staff.
We
have
been
researching
fees
and
related
cities
to
create
a
benchmark.
You
see
some
of
that
in
front
of
you
now.
E
I
won't
go
line
by
line
on
this,
but
the
main
idea
here,
what
you
see
is
fees
that
are
granular
granularly
based.
So
it
shows
an
easier
word
to
say
on
square
foot
used
rather
than
blanket
fees
or
categories
of
square
feet
being
utilized
by
the
restaurant
or
permittee
go
to
the
next
slide.
Please
in
developing
our
streetery
fee
development.
This
is
an
entirely
new
animal
for
us
there
were
no
fees
for
this
during
the
the
pandemic
and
the
coveted
response,
so
the
temporary
program.
E
So
what
we've
looked
at
is,
of
course,
those
benchmarks
that
we
saw
before
we've
also
looked
at
things
like
the
cost
of
the
city.
To
provide
the
service
and
Market
rates
for
that
retail
space
that
will
be
occupied
by
dining
areas
and
without
going
through
this
in
detail,
you'll
see
that
if
you
were
to
add
all
these
fees
up
to
be
very
enormous
fees,
but
they
did
help
us
inform
help,
inform
us
on
how
to
develop
fees
for
this
new
program
next
slide.
Please.
E
E
Next
I'm
going
to
talk
to
you
about
the
key
updates
to
the
standards
we're
looking
at,
so
we're
looking
to
create
a
clarification
on
the
aspects
of
site
design
and,
as
we
saw
from
the
information
that
was
gathered
part
of
this
program,
we
want
to
create
clear
space
for
mobility
and
access
to
utilities,
as
well
as
ensure
that
things
such
as
Transit
stops.
Pedestrian
ramps
and
safety
features
can
operate
correctly
and
some
of
the
highlights
of
those
include
an
additional
18
inch
buffer
between
six
foot,
clear
space
and
adjacent
movable
seating.
E
Just
to
keep
that
zone
clear
and
an
additional
18
inch
adjacent
to
roadways.
We're
also
proposing
signage
to
make
the
operation
of
these
spaces
clear
to
pedestrians
and
customers
of
the
businesses
and
for
straighteries.
It's
key
that
we
would
be
requiring
platforms
to
be
built
rather
than
stepped
in
off
the
curb
and
placed
tables
within
the
parking
space.
E
Another
thing
that
we
are
proposing
to
do
differently
is
that
new
structures
are
not
to
be
bolted
or
permanently
affixed
to
the
sidewalk
or
public
infrastructure.
Although
I'll
add
an
asterisk
there
that
those
with
an
existing
encroachment
agreement
with
the
city
would
be
allowed
to
remain
as
a
part
of
that
agreement,
all
right
next
slide,
please.
E
E
Restaurant
operators,
not
people
who
are
often
obtaining
permits
for
things
from
the
city,
and
we
do
want
to
make
this
an
easy
process
and
a
clear
process,
but
it's
also
important
that
we
get
the
information
we
need
so
as
a
whole,
we'll
be
looking
at
a
zoning,
coordinated
review
of
applications,
an
inspection
process
which
will
be
new,
just
a
quick
inspection
to
make
sure
what
goes
on
the
ground
is
what
has
been
approved
and
standards
are
being
met
and
some
proactive
compliance
downtown
through
the
development
services.
Compliance
division
next
slide,
please.
E
This
chart
is
a
little
much
to
look
at
on
a
presentation,
because
there's
a
lot
going
on
here,
but
I'll
summarize
that
we'd
be
looking
at
one
application
for
streeteries,
sidewalk,
dining
and
renewal.
That
would
streamline
the
process
and
take
our
applicants
through
an
easy
to
use
process
design
for
each
one.
E
A
staff
level
review
for
sidewalk
dining
a
renewal
process
that
will
involve
really
no
review
as
long
as
nothing
has
changed,
just
a
verification
of
standards
and
with
a
straight
array
being
a
more
intensive
application
involving
a
structure
within
the
city
right
away
and
more
detailed
standards.
Honestly
than
sidewalk
dining,
those
will
be
reviewed
by
the
city's
technical
Review
Committee,
which
is
again
an
administrative
review,
but
it
is
made
up
of
for
viewers
from
the
city,
including
fire,
zoning
special
events,
Public
Works
Transportation,
among
others,.
G
So,
as
I
mentioned,
we've
been
doing
a
lot
of
Engagement
about
downtown
public
space
use
kind
of
generally,
and
what
we've
tried
to
do
as
part
of
this
project
is
to
build
utilize,
what
we've
done
and
and
build
on
that
and
learn
from
that
also,
obviously,
during
covid,
when
we
learned
a
whole
lot
so
using
what
we
learned
through
engagement,
but
also
through
kind
of
opening
up
a
whole
new
thing
during
covet,
it
kind
of
helped
us
realize
some
of
the
things
that
we
had
been
doing,
maybe
could
use
some
some
improvement,
and
so
we've
been
learning
a
lot
over
the
past
many
years
and
we've
really
been
focusing
mostly
on
kind
of
impacted
stakeholders
to
go,
go
discuss
these
updates
and
get
some
feedback
and
and
ask
folks
a
bunch
of
questions
to
see
if
we're
kind
of
getting
this
balance
right
and
for
the
most
part,
we've
gotten
really
good
feedback
to
this
point
next
slide,
please,
and
so
just
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
timeline
we've
engaged
with
different
stakeholder
groups
since
the
spring.
G
We
are
with
you
today
and
we
plan
to
go
to
the
policy,
finance
and
HR
committee
with
the
proposed
fee
updates
in
October,
and
we
plan
to
go
to
city
council
with
those
fee
updates
and
the
new
ordinance
October
24th
again,
as
Chris
mentioned,
we've
designed
we're
designing
the
the
guide
to
be
able
to
be
updated,
and
we
expect
to
learn
alongside
the
community
during
this
first
year
of
rollout.
Are
there
things
that
need
to
change?
Are
there?
G
You
know
this
program
is
going
to
evolve
just
like
programs
all
across
the
country
in
the
same
way
are
being
tried
and
are
evolving,
and
so
we
will
open
the
application
process.
November
1st
we're
going
to
set
up
information
sessions
to
walk
businesses
through
what
this
new
process
looks
like
specifically
for
those
streeteries,
it's
a
it's
a
more
intensive
process
and
we'll
start
a
new
permit
period
in
January
2024,
which
will
run
with
the
calendar
year
next
slide.
G
Please
so
again
with
our
key
takeaways,
we
are
making
updates
to
the
city's
outdoor
dining
program
as
applied
to
public
spaces.
This
includes
a
new
ordinary
ordinance,
updated
fee
structure
and
an
outdoor
dining
guide
that
details
standards.
We're
applying
lessons
learned
during
the
attempt
during
the
temp
lessons
learned
during
the
temporary
initiatives
and
the
ongoing
work
we've
been
doing
with
the
community
to
try
to
manage
our
active
spaces
better.
G
It
includes
the
use
of
on-street
parking
spaces
moving
forward
through
a
long-term,
permitting
program.
Access
and
Mobility
are
being
prioritized,
as
well
as
greater
public
benefits
whenever
possible,
and
administrative
management
of
the
program
is
also
being
clarified
and
improved,
and
next
slide.
Please,
with
that,
we
would
welcome
any
feedback.
Any
questions
that
you
have.
B
A
job
for
all
the
work
you've
done
on
this
and
the
people
that
helped
you
and
I
I
think
it's
something
that
can
actually
actually
change
the
complexion
of
what
astral
really
is
I
I
could
see
that
actually
growing
into
something
special
here.
One
question
I
would
like
to
ask:
you
is
how
many
dining
outdoor
dining
areas
do
we
have
presently
or
during
the
covet
at
that?
You
know
how
many
did
we
have
at
that
time
and
moving
forward
I
was
just
concerned
about
moving
forward.
B
Maybe
it
would
be
even
more
and
how
would
we
handle
the
increase
of
requests?
Go
out
to
a
daddy.
G
So,
since
January
2022
we
so
we
made
the
sidewalk
dining
process
easier
during
covid
and
in
January
2022.
We
required
that
folks
go
through
the
pre-existing
permitting
process
again,
and
we
have
26
businesses
that
have
sidewalk
dining
permits
and
all
I
think
every
single
one
of
those
as
in
downtown,
but
it
doesn't
mean
it
only
applies
to
downtown.
G
We
had
about
22
businesses
have
parklets
during
covid
and
we
have
13
businesses
now
that
have
the
parklets,
and
so
even
though
we
haven't
charged
fees
and
the
standards
we
do
have
standards,
but
we
intentionally
made
it
pretty
easy.
You
know
relatively
easy
to
be
able
to
do.
Some
businesses
have
decided
not
to
continue
to
to
have
that
outdoor
space.
It
just
becomes.
You
know
too
much
to
manage
or
doesn't
make
sense
for
whatever
reason.
Maybe
the
structure
needs
more
investment
than
they're
able
to
make.
G
So
with
the
new
standards
that
we're
proposing,
we
are
requiring
that
a
structure
be
built.
We
are
requiring
fees.
These
fees
are
very
much
in
line
with
what
other
cities
are
charging
but
com
compared
to
not
having
a
fee.
This
3,
000
or
4
500
fee
is
significant.
We
don't
anticipate
and
we've
only
we've
gotten
two
inquiries
since
the
temporary
program,
since
we
stopped
taking
new
applications
during
the
temporary
program,
so
that
was
fall
of
2021
we've
just
gotten
two
inquiries,
so
we
don't
anticipate
a
flood
of
businesses
wanting
to
utilize
the
parking
spaces.
G
But,
of
course,
the
first
year
I
think
will
be
a
time
of
learning
for
all
of
us
and
if
there
needs
to
be
certain,
you
know
limits
per
block
or
per
area
or
or
other
layers.
I
think
we
can
look
at
that
together.
G
F
Yeah
Tina
quick
question
because
I
this
came
up
after
our
last
meeting,
where
I
heard
this
presentation,
I
would
love
to
know
how
many
total
parking
spaces
we
have
in
use
for
these
I
heard.
You
say
it
was
like
19
now,
but
I'm,
not
clear
if
that's
19
businesses
or
38
spaces,
because
sometimes
they
have
two.
F
The
other
thing
is
what
happens
when
a
conflict
arises
like
the
bike
lane
patent
experience
is
teaching
us
that
some
of
the
concerns
we're
hearing
is
that
we're
losing
parking
spaces
and
then,
if
you
look
in
that
area,
you've
got
restaurants
with
outdoor
dining
and
dining
and
parking
spaces.
So
the
question
that
came
to
me
was
you
know:
if
why
does
a
business
get
to
have
both
outdoor
dining
space,
that
is
on
the
sidewalk
and
a
parking
space
while
we're
going
through
this
change?
That's
going
to
take
so
much
parking,
so
I
guess.
F
G
Thank
you.
It's
that's
a
really
good
question
to
your
first
question
about
number
of
parking
spaces,
so
20
on-street
parking
spaces
are
currently
being
utilized,
but
that
doesn't
include
the
spaces
on
Wall
Street,
which
used
to
be
majored
spaces,
but
will
not
be
parking
spaces
anymore.
G
There's
only
loading
and
Ada
spaces
on
Wall
Street
now
so
total.
If
you
include
those
it's
24
or
25.
Regarding
future
changes
to
corridors,
there
is
language
that
that
states
that,
if
changes
to
the
site
I
mean
maybe
sidewalk
expansions
will
happen
and
and
that's
a
public
investment.
These
streeteries
are
removable.
It's
very
different
than
a
permanent
privatized.
G
G
We
are
prioritizing
that
clear
space
be
maintained,
and
so
we
have
a
couple
new
tools
for
that
in
the
standards.
At
this
point,
we
aren't
proposing
that
businesses
have
to
pick
between
one
or
the
other
so
long
as
they
can
achieve
both.
But
if
it's
problematic,
it's
that's
exactly
the
type
of
thing
that
could
be
updated
later
or
we'd
welcome.
You
know,
feedback
that
you
have.
F
Thank
you,
I
guess
it
came
up
because-
and
we
went
over
this
more
the
downtown
commission-
how
the
restaurants
that
can
have
the
adjacent
seating
in
these
spaces.
It
has
to
be
like
adjacent
to
their
property.
It
can
be
the
in
front
of
the
restaurant
or
you
can
be
one
of
the
next
door,
restaurants,
so
I
guess
the
concern
came
up
about
Equity
like
if
all
businesses
can't
access
them,
then
what
happens
when
one
is
utilizing
both
and
they're,
both
just
about
a
chance.
They
asked
first,
their
neighbors.
Now
can't
get
any.
F
You
know
what
I'm
saying
like
I
just
know.
This
has
come
up
recently
and
I'm
talking
about
Tupelo,
Honey
I,
don't
mean
to
be
so
vague,
but
they
have
the
pretty
significant
outdoor
dining
that
is
enclosed
and
on
the
sidewalk,
and
now
they.
F
G
I
will
offer
one
thing,
and
that
is
that
if
you
know
parking
spaces,
don't
align
exactly
with
frontages
generally,
if
a
portion
of
the
proposed
streetery
is
in
front
of
another
business,
we're
asking
for
consent
from
the
impacted
business,
and
so
that's
one
way.
We
there
may
be
conflicts,
but
we
want
to
create
tools
to
at
least
try
to
avoid
those
and
I.
I.
Also
think
that
this
could
be
one
of
the
things
that
we
learn
in
time.
G
H
And
it
seems
like
given
you've
built
into
this,
an
annual
cycle
that
should
a
new
business
come
in,
they
show
up
and
they're,
like
oh
I,
want
in
on
this,
like
that
annual
cycle
could
trigger
renegotiations
new
conversations
if
businesses
are
changing
or
having
different
changing
needs.
So,
however,
you
design
that
process,
maybe
the
consent,
is
annual
but
yeah.
It
sounds
like
building
in
a
structure
to
flag
for
what
you're
saying
Sage
of
changing
priorities
amongst
neighboring
businesses
is
a
good
idea.
E
You
yeah
and
then
I
can
add
just
speaking
to
what
councilwoman
Oldman
said
that
this
is
not
a
zoning
provision.
This
is
in
the
municipal
code
under
a
public
space.
So
it's
not
really
a
non-conforming
situation,
so
it
is
that
annual
permit
situation,
so
should
something
arise
the
permit
may
or
may
not
be
or
renewed.
You
know.
H
Had
some
thoughts
and
a
question
I
spent
some
time
with
the
proposed
fee
fee
because
I
want
our
downtown
businesses
to
be
healthy
and
public
space
is
so
valuable
and
so
competitive,
downtown
and
I
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
close
to
market
rate
or
comparisons,
and
so
it
I
didn't
like
pull
out
my
spreadsheets
I
trust.
E
Yeah
I
can
take
a
stab
at
this
Dana
and
jump
in
anywhere
I
leave
a
gap,
but
we
spent
a
good
deal
of
time
looking
at
other
cities,
so
that
was
definitely
a
consideration
right
and
and
they're,
not
small
fees,
especially
when
we
get
into
Street
reasons
generally
a
substantial
fee.
E
So
then
we
kind
of
dug
into
well.
What
would
those
bees
look
for
the
City
of
Ash
look
like
for
the
city
of
Asheville
and-
and
there
was
a
slide
with
a
lot
of
numbers
on
it,
but
it
really
went
over
what
what
kind
of
meter
Revenue
are
we
actually
losing
by
closing
the
space?
So
what's
the
hit
on
that
parking
services
fund,
and
we
tried
to
get
a
handle
on
staff
time
as
well,
and
that
includes
like
hey
how
much
time
does
it
take
to
process
an
application?
E
Do
a
quick
inspection,
but
also
how
much
time
does
it
take
to
staff
the
appropriate
people
to
ensure
compliance
right
enforcement
or
whatever,
and
then
we
also
took
the
approach
of
looking
at
kind
of
market
rate.
What
would
what
would
a
restaurant
pay
for
this
space
if
they
were
renting
extra
leasable
area
for
the
restaurant
and
really
like
a
lot
of
those
numbers,
came
to
the
same
place
individually?
But
if
you
added
them
all
together,
it'd
be
an
astronomical
fee.
E
So,
honestly,
yeah
there's
probably
some
cost
to
the
city
to
provide
the
program
under
the
current
fee
structure,
and
then
it's
really
just
about
how
those
fees
get
distributed
right.
How
much
of
that
goes
to
compensate
the
parking
fund
versus
how
much
goes
back
into
a
general
fund
to
compensate
the
staff
time
being
used,
and
we
I
don't
think
we've
really
designed
that
aspect
of
where
the
fees
go
yet,
but
we've
had
conversations
for
sure.
G
I'll
just
add
that
we
tried
to
look
at
other
cities
that
have
very
active
Urban
environments,
there's
quite
a
range
in
fees.
Some
places
charge,
basically
nothing
they're
still
encouraging.
You
know
trying
to
revitalize,
and
so
we
tried
to
look
at
the
areas
where
this
is
being
more
actively
managed
and
part,
and
so
we
got
a
little
bit
more
granular.
Charging
per
square
foot
really
encourages
people
to
think
about
the
space
that's
being
utilized
so
for
businesses
downtown
now
that
are
taking.
You
know,
have
a
couple
tables.
G
They
may
actually
be
paying
less
for
businesses
that
have
very
large
outdoor
dining
areas,
they're
going
to
be
paying
significantly
more
so
charging
on
that
per
square
foot
basis
is
also
just
it's
something.
We
saw
other
cities
that
that
you
know
face
similar
types
of
circumstances
as
us,
something
that
they're
doing
some
of
them
charge
per
table
and
per
chair,
we're
we're
going
with
per
square
foot,
but
we
hope
it.
It
encourages
thoughtfulness
on
utilization,
yeah.
H
I
really
like
the
switch
from
how
we're
currently
doing
it
with
the
tiers
to
the
square
foot
for
sidewalks.
That
makes
a
lot
of
sense
with
with
the
streeteries.
Are
those
feet
yeah?
They
are
annual,
they
say
annual.
So
that's
it's
a
pretty
substantial
investment
for
a
business,
but
then
again
they're
increasing
their
square
footage
and
if
they
can
get
five
more
tables,
they
can
turn
that
or
you
know
so.
It's
a
business
calculation
so
we're
giving
everybody
really
clear
guidelines
to
plan
business
expansions
or
planning
whatever
they're
going
to
do
yeah.
H
That
seems
pretty
thoughtful.
My
other
question,
well,
I,
guess
not
a
question.
Just
like
a
thought
to
share
is
that
I
love
this
program
before
I
was
on
Council
I
volunteered
on
the
committee.
You've
been
leading
Dana
like
I
think
this
is
really
good
for
our
economy.
Good
for
our
community
I
also
know
that
having
been
a
downtown
worker
for
years
that
we
always
have
these
conflicts,
where
there's
just
not
enough
space
on
the
sidewalks
to
house
how
vibrant
our
community
is,
and
so
I
really
value.
H
G
I
think
the
short
answer
is
no
and
I
I
could
ask
Janice
because
I
think
there's
some
legal
basis
for
that.
But
this
program
is
really
specifically
about
creating
Active,
safe
environments,
supporting
the
local
economy
through
in
this
particular
way
more
eyes
on
the
street.
It
creates
a
place
where
people
feel
comfortable
and
people
want
to
be,
and
we've
heard
that
time
and
time
again
and
so
the
nature
of
this
use
and
having
people
utilize,
the
space
is
different
than
having
the
space
be
utilized
for
parking.
D
No
I
think
you're
right
absolutely
right.
Dana.
We
can't
convert
a
public
parking
space
into
a
private
parking
space,
but
we
can
choose
to
convert
a
public
parking
space
into
some
other
use
for
the
for,
even
though
it's
private,
but
it's
a
sort
of
publicly
motivated
to
to
serve
the
public.
So
yeah
you
can't.
You
can't
convert
public
private
private
parking
so.
H
Private
parking,
isn't
a
public
use
or
public
benefit,
and
so
it
wouldn't
justify.
Just
I
could
see
people
saying
that,
considering
how
right
often
that
conversation
comes
up
and
then
the
third
bucket
of
conversation
is
kind
of
reflecting
gain
on
your
point
that
we
saw
a
flood
of
these
needs
during
covet
and
kind
of
a
tapering
off
demand.
H
We
might
be
at
a
point
where
it's
not
like
we're
going
to
see
a
tripling
by
any
means
of
these
things,
but
as
we
get
to
just
more
clear
guidance,
I
could
see
as
businesses
decide
which
route
they're
gonna
go
for
the
street
or
for
the
outdoor
dining.
If
they
have
the
option,
one
space
becomes
publicly
accessible
option:
two
option:
three
I
guess
what
I'm
getting
at
here
is
I
could
imagine
if
I
were
a
downtown
business
and
I
wanted
to
expand
and
start
doing
something.
H
I
would
say:
yeah
I
really
want
to
do
this
and
I'm
going
to
put
out
this
furniture
and
I
might
tuck
it
up
or
I
might
chain
it
up.
But
what
are
you
gonna
do
city
government
to
ensure
that
no
one
cuts
the
chain
and
steals
my
chairs,
or
that
no
one
is
sleeping
on
the
Fortified
bench
and
causing
problems
or
whatever,
whatever
so
I
guess
when
we
were
talking
about
fees
and
we
were
looking
at
Cost
recovery,
we
talked
about
staff
timing
for
processing.
H
Did
we
account
for
a
potential
increase
in
public
safety
support
because
the
use
is
just
going
to
be
different?
And
it's
not?
You
know
we're
used
to
what
it
looks
like
to
protect
vehicles
that
are
locked
up
and
we
don't
see
a
lot
of
car
breakings
downtown,
but
we
just
might
see
the
use
being
different.
Have
we
thought
about
if
there's
any
potential
unattended
consequences.
G
Yeah,
it's
a
really
important
Point
and
we
haven't
Quantified
exactly
what
that
will
look
like
I.
Think
that
we
are,
you
know,
trying
trying
to
be
Innovative
and
testing
this
out.
It's
something
that
other
cities
do.
We
know.
San
Francisco
has
had
a
park
blood
program
for
decades.
G
It's
something
they
do.
There's
definitely
going
to
be
things
to
learn
along
the
way.
We
don't
hear
a
lot
of
issues
currently
with
how
outdoor
dining
spaces
get
utilized,
even
though
they're
considered
privatized
all
the
time.
Of
course,
things
happen,
so
I
think
it's
yeah.
It's
it's
going
to
be
a
time
of
of
learning
for
us,
and
you
know
if,
if
Furniture
gets
stolen,
I
think
that
would
be
handled
consistently
with
someone's
private
property
crime,
stolen
I
mean
I.
G
Think
inevitably,
there's
a
role
of
the
police
department
in
some
of
this
or
a
lot
of
this,
but
so
yeah
I
think
we
will
have
to
see
how
it.
H
Goes
that's
helpful
even
just
hearing
it
like
your
response
to
that
could
have
been.
Oh,
that's
the
number
one
problem
we
hear
from
other
cities.
It
becomes
this
big
pre
like
that's,
not
what
I'm
hearing
at
all
I'm
hearing
things
can
come
up,
we'll
be
agile
and
adaptive,
but
it
hasn't
been
a
major
flag
that
you've
seen
in
your
research,
so
that
that
alone
is
pretty
useful
in
reassuring.
So
I
appreciate
that,
thanks
for
letting
me
hit
up
a
bunch
of
questions,
even
though
I've
seen
this
before
it
keeps
making
me
think
thanks.
G
And
I'll
just
add
again
really
cities.
You
know
some
cities
were
early
and
rolling
out
these
long-term
programs.
Other
cities
are
still
trying
to
figure
out
what
that
looks
like.
So
there
is
a
lot
of
you
know,
learning
to
do
across
the
country
and
seeing
what's
working
and
what's
not
so
we're
in
good
company
with
this.
B
Do
we
have
any
other
questions
or
concerns
a
lot,
then,
if
someone
would
like
to
make
a
motion,
have
this
sent
over
to
council.
H
B
Councilwoman,
Oliver,
aye,
councilman,
Charter
and
myself.
I
emotion,
passes
so
we'll
be
looking
forward
to
full
Council.
Taking
a
look
at
this
I'm.
Quite
sure,
it's
going
to
be
I
I.
Think
it's
going
to
be
well
taken.
I
truly
do
believe
that
so
I'm
looking
forward
to
it.
Okay,
thank
you,
David
great
great
job,
Dana.
Thank
you,
Chris.
Thank
you.
Chris
very
much,
I
appreciate
it.
Thank
you.
Okay,
okay,
but
next
item
on
the
agenda.
It's
the
FY,
24
work,
planned
follow-up
and
the
resource
will
be
dead
Woody.
B
This
is
the
final
review
of
the
fiscal
year.
2024
committee
work
plan,
and
this
is
for
information
sharing.
Only
thank
you.
C
Thank
you,
council,
member
Kilgore
and
other
members
of
the
committee,
so
we
we
did
go
over
this
at
your
last
meeting.
So
this
is
really
the
follow-up
and
to
try
to
finalize
the
ped's
work
plan.
I'll
I'll,
give
the
caveat
that
work
plans
are
fluid
documents,
so
this
is
final
for
now,
but
it
doesn't
mean
that
we
will
have
adjustments
as
we
go
through
the
fiscal
year,
so
Katie.
C
If
you
can
go
to
the
next
slide-
and
this
will
be
a
really
brief
slide
deck
and
I'm
going
to
stop
at
a
couple
of
slides
and
get
some
feedback
from
Council
Members.
As
we
go
again.
Annual
work
plans
are
just
a
tool
to
help
you
organize
the
work
in
this
case
of
the
PED
committee.
C
Typically,
your
work
plan
is
going
to
focus
around
your
city,
council
goals,
strategic
priorities
and
even
some
of
the
scope
of
your
committee
as
it
as
it
exists,
paid
work
plans
are
a
combination
of
updates
and
administrative
items.
We'll
show
a
couple
of
those
in
a
minute
as
well
as
policy
considerations
and
again
we'll
go
through
a
few
of
those
projects
as
well.
C
But
the
other
piece
for
the
PED
committee
to
consider
is
your
work
plan
is
also
an
opportunity
for
you
to
work
with
advisory
boards
and
to
even
ask
those
boards
or
committees
to
do
things
for
you
in
terms
of
shaping
or
or
discussing
or
researching
potential
policies
and
then,
finally,
as
I
mentioned,
these
are
dynamics.
So
it's
what's.
Today's
work
plan
may
look
different
a
few
weeks
from
now,
depending
on
policy
objectives
and
things
that
the
committee
wants
to
accomplish.
So
it
is
a
fluid
document
Petty.
If
you
can
go
to
the
next
slide,.
C
So
today
we're
going
to
try
to
finalize
this
generally
for
now,
I
want
to
get
some
feedback
from
Council.
But
again
we
can
come
back
to
this,
as,
as
you
identify
new
projects
or
anything,
we
want
to
take
a
look
at
generally.
What
we'll
do
is
try
to
have
regular
updates
from
advisory
boards.
I
did
meet
with
the
Department
directors
prior
to
the
day
to
try
to
identify
some
of
the
projects
that
are
forthcoming.
Those
are
things
we
like
to
have
the
project
managers
come
to
you
and
present.
C
We
just
have
one
with
Dana
and
Chris
here
to
give
an
update
on
the
dining
ordinance,
our
outdoor
dining
ordinance
for
a
winter
Council.
So
that
was
a
great
example
and,
of
course,
anything
else
that
the
committee
may
want
to
see
on
their
work
plan.
So
if
we
can
do
the
next
slide,
Katie.
C
So
these
These
are
really
what
we
identified
as
the
annual
update
items
we've
got.
A
couple
of
these
scheduled
we've
had
something
that
have
happened
in
the
previous
months,
so
again,
I'm
going
to
keep
working
with
Department
directors
and
Advisory
Board
chairs.
To
try
to
get
these
regular
updates
to
the
PED
committee.
You
can
see
the
six
Council
appointed
advisory
boards.
Those
are
the
ones
that
are
created
by
city,
council
and
I.
Think
at
a
minimum.
C
We
want
to
have
each
of
those
come
once
a
year
to
give
it
an
update
on
on
their
work
and
their
efforts.
The
other
are
really
more
community-based
or
partnership
organizations
EDC,
that's
one
that
we're
trying
to
get
on
the
calendar
in
the
near
future.
You
can
see
the
Mountain
Community
Capital
fund,
that's
another
one.
We
want
to
try
to
schedule
and
of
course,
at
the
last
committee
meeting,
Council
woman
Holman
suggested
that
having
the
French
Broad
River
NPO
come
for
occasional
updates.
Don't
have
that
scheduled
yet,
but
we'll
work
on
getting
that.
C
Somebody
from
that
agency
here
as
well,
those
are
pretty
I,
would
say,
informational
type
bodies.
That
would
come
to
you,
but
these
also
could
be
particularly
your
advisory
boards.
These
are
also
boards
that
can
serve
as
a
resource
for
your
committee
work.
If
you
wanted
to
ask
them
to
do
something
so
I'll
stop
here,
just
for
a
second
to
see,
if
there's
any
questions
on
this
slide
and
how
we
kind
of
have
represented
it
here,
as
perhaps
annual
update
items.
C
So
this
really
represents
a
little
more
of
the
policy
items.
So
what
I
did
before
this
meeting
is
went
to
the
different
departments
that
would
ordinarily
bring
business
items
to
this
Council
committee
and
really
got
a
list
of
the
items
that
they're
either
projects
that
are
underway
or
they
plan
to
begin
in
the
next
fiscal
year.
C
So
you'll
should
recognize
several
of
these,
because
a
lot
of
these
are
on
the
organizational
work
plan
and
align
directly
with
your
Council
priorities,
again
I'm,
going
to
show
a
schedule
on
the
next
slide,
but
real
quickly
just
wanted
to
give
Council
a
minute
to
look
at
some
of
the
policy
review
items
that
we
have
in
the
queue
and
have
any
discussion
about.
What's
on
here
or
maybe
what
we
missed.
What
could
be
missing
from
here
and
I'll?
Stop
there
and
I'll
turn
it
over
to
councilman
Oldman.
C
That's
a
good,
that's
a
good
question
and
it
is
new
that
was
one
of
the
items
that
our
new
planning
director,
Steph
Monson
doll,
suggested
and
about
five
years
ago
our
comprehensive
plan
was
adopted
and,
ordinarily,
you
know
you
want
to
it's
a
matter
of
practice
update
those
about
every
five
years.
Steph
has
asked
a
staff
person
to
kind
of
go
into
that
document.
Do
a
deep
dive
and
try
to
identify.
C
Yeah,
like
a
progress
report,
it's
not
going
to
be
yeah.
I
guess,
maybe
clarify
it's
not
going
to
be
I,
don't
think
it's
actual
updates
to
the
plan.
But
it's
going
to
be
like
a
progress
report.
It
could
be
plan
yeah.
H
Don't
see
this
up
here,
which
we
also
talked
about
last
month,
and
you
know
if
we're
having
to
choose
between
recommending
updates
to
the
pump
plan
like
I'd
rather
just
start
getting
done
on
that,
and
then
also
we've
kind
of
emailing
staff
about
the
multi-family
housing,
streamlined
process
and
potentially
an
overlay
and
I
feel
like
pet
is
a
really
good
place
for
that,
and
then
also
there's
been
a
lot
of
changes
in
short-term
rental
policy
around
the
state
and
in
other
municipalities
and
that's
another
thing:
we've
kind
of
been
emailing
with
Council
or
Council
and
staff
about.
H
So
those
would
be
things
that
I
feel
like
this
would
be
a
great
committee
to
work
with
on
that
and
are
timely,
so
I,
don't
know
if
other
councilwoman
have
reactions
to
those
like
the
right
place
for
this
or
your
thoughts
on
this.
C
So
councilwoman
only
just
make
sure
I
heard
that
so
Udo
update,
which
I
know
is
also
in
one
in
our
Council
priorities,
so
having
more
information
about
moving
that
forward.
I
think.
The
second
thing
we
mentioned
was:
was
the
idea
of
Expediting
or
somehow
having
policies
in
place
to
expedite
or
support,
affordable
housing
developments
or
policies
am
I
getting
that
one
right.
One.
H
Is
that
an
idea
that's
been
batted
around
from
councilwoman
for
quite
some
time
and
then
recently,
just
over
emails
in
the
last
several
weeks
is
a
not
a
is
a
multi-family
housing,
Community
benefits
and
I
mean
the
the
video
updates
and
that
might
go
hand
in
hand
to
some
extent
like
what
do
we
need
to
do
chapter
seven,
but
I.
Think,
however,
you
want
to
Stage
those
but
having
some
type
of
multi-family
housing
overlay
is
a
conversation
that
we've
been
talking
about
and
then
the
short
term
rental
regulations,
I.
B
Was
just
wondering
Maggie
when
we
talked
about
the
housing
situation,
I'm
just
wondering:
will
there
be
some
type
of
conflict
with
the
housing
committee
as
to
Pope,
as
opposed
to
what
they're
doing
and
I
don't
want
to
get
into
the
weeds?
Where
we'd
have
you
know
us
discussing
what
middle
housing
and
what
we
think
it
needs,
and
then
you've
got
the
housing
committee
that
actually
have
the
agenda
to
what
they
need.
B
So
I
I,
don't
I'm
just
really
concerned
about
that
particular
area
being
something
that
okay,
the
sage
is
on
that
committee,
so
she
chime
in
okay,
Sage.
F
Yeah
I,
just
think
similar
to
you
know,
like
the
street
areas
going
to
downtown
and
ped
I
think
the
housing
stuff
would
come
to
both
housing
and
ped,
because
it
will
have
a
pretty
big
impact
on
our
planning
and
as
Maggie
staying
even
chapter
seven,
so
I
think
it
makes
sense
to
come
to
both.
They
don't
need
to
be.
You
know
mutually
exclusive
or
at
the
same
time
I
mean
we
can
hear
from
housing
and
take
their
input,
take
it
to
ped
and
then
on
to
council,
if
needed
or
as
needed.
B
B
F
C
Katie,
if
you
can
go
to
the
next
slide,
I
feel
like
that'll
help
a
little
bit.
We
can
come
back
yeah,
so
we're
taught
of
really
trying
to
plan
out
your
fiscal
year
with
with
items
we
want
to
schedule
for
you
to
consider
so
just
to
take
those
three
suggestions
that
were
just
presented
so,
for
example,
I'm,
actually
really
glad
you
brought
up
Str
regulations
because
I
know
we
have
a
program
in
place.
C
I
know
the
County's,
considering
one
lots
of
places
do
lots
of
different
things.
There
was
a
Court
decision
in
Wilmington
that
had
some
impact
even
to
our
program.
So
that's
an
easy
one.
That's
something!
I
can
probably
get
on
your
agenda.
The
next
meeting
or
two
like
we
could.
We
could
do
that
pretty
quickly.
That's
a
great
piece
of
feedback
from
this
committee.
So
let
us
like
that
one
I
can
commit
to
right
away.
We
can
bring
you
back
an
update
on
the
Str
environment
not
only
in
Asheville
but
across
the
state.
C
So
yes,
councilman,
Turner
I
think
we're
trying
to
take
what
we
know
needs
to
come
to.
You
plan
that
out
because
again
there
are
other
projects
on
the
previous
slide
that
haven't
even
started
yet
so
I
can't
plug
them
into
a
date.
Yet,
but
I
know
that,
like
so,
for
example,
when
the
patent
Avenue
Corridor
study
starts
I
know
I
want
to
come
to
ped
early
in
that
process
and
get
you
up
to
speed
on
that.
Is
that
helpful?
A
little
bit
councilwoman
Turner.
F
Very
helpful
and
I
just
thought:
maybe
it
helped
us
all.
Also
Brad
is
working
on
something
related
to
the
Str,
so
you
may
want
to
check
with
him
before
we
throw
it
on
an
agenda.
C
C
Obviously
that
would
need
to
come
forward
as
like
a
budget
request
from
the
planning
department.
So
again
maybe
beginning
discussions
on
that
can
be
something
we
can
do
as
you
move
into
the
budget
process
this
year
may
be
a
good
Advisory
Board
to
have
some
input
on
that.
So.
H
I
think
it
would
be
great
and
that
timing
would
work
too,
because
I
think
part
of
the
way
that
we
were
given
the
feedback
during
the
council
retreat
was
that
no
one
wants
to
update
the
full
Udo.
No
one
even
wants
to
update
every
single
letter
in
chapter
seven.
So
can
we
have
a
strategy
conversation
with
ped
around
where
our
priorities
would
be
and
what
our
goals
would
be
for
updates,
and
if
we
do
that
this
fiscal
year?
That
then,
would
allow
you
to
scope
out.
H
H
H
And
then
the
the
multiple
overlay
we
talked
about,
we
gotta
get
the
right
name
for
that,
but
I
think
that's
also.
Brad
Brad
has
a
lot
in
that
Court
as
well,
but
I.
Think
ped
is
a
good
resource
for
him
and
planning
in
that
one.
So
I
don't
know
if
y'all
thought
any
further
about
the
timing
on
that
one.
But
you
know
timings
of
essence
and
all
these
promos.
A
B
H
Yeah
and
then
that
gets
kind
of
standard
to
your
point
of
like
there's
going
to
be
parts
of
it
that
are
going
to
be
really
housing
focused
that
dovetail
and
it's
like.
Okay,
once
we
prioritize
what
parts
of
chapter
seven
then
maybe
there's
some
handing
off,
but
there's
just
so
much
in
chapter
seven
and
there's
so
many
goals
we're
achieving
it's
not
just
about
housing.
It's
about
Economic,
Development!
It's
about
neighborhood
resilience.
Whatever
so
doing.
C
So
this
was
my
last
blog
other
than
the
key
takeaways
again,
but
that's
helpful.
C
That's
a
couple
of
items
that
and
just
you
know-
I'll
of
course
want
to
go
back
and
talk
to
planning
staff
because,
as
they
work
through
their
sequencing
of
projects
and
workload
and
everything,
we
want
to
make
sure
that
they're
in
a
position
to
be
responsive,
so
they
it
may
be.
A
question
today
for
this
committee
is
what
is
what
is
the
format
that
you
want
to
talk
about
your
work
plan
moving
forward
or
how?
How
would
you
would
you
like
me
to
best
share
information
with
you?
C
F
F
So
we
made
sure
their
calendars
were
in
sync,
we
even
had
some
like
outcome
goals
like
is
it
a
policy,
change,
Etc
but
I
think
making
sure
we
dial
in
the
other
committees
that
will
layer
into
these
processes
like
housing
or
multimodal
we're,
probably
the
biggest
helpful
thing
in
making
that
timeline
at
hcd
we
were
able
to
say
okay
well
in
three
months.
We
need
to
know
the
feedback
from
ahac
on
this
item,
so
let's
get
them
queued
up.
H
For
me,
something
that
would
be
useful
is,
as
we
keep
a
clear
Lane
between
the
policy
and
the
operations
and
how
it
can
easily
get
blurry
in
these
sequencing.
Getting
clear
when
we're
having
kind
of
a
a
goal.
H
We
get
money
more
updates
on
like
how
staff
is
doing
this
and
what
the
design
is.
But
it's
not
really
always
clear
when
the
strategy
setting
is
coming
to
us.
B
Word
time
update:
if
not
the
next
thing
on
my
agenda
will
be
public
comments
and
also
want
to
check
with
Katie
to
see
if
we
have
anyone.
Let
me
check
one
moment.