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A
Okay,
good
evening,
everyone,
it's
four
o'clock
and
I-
want
to
welcome
you
to
the
June
8th,
2023
meeting
of
the
Baltimore
County
plating
board.
It
is
now
called
the
order.
My
name
is
Nancy
kafford
I'm,
the
chair
of
the
board,
and
we
will
now
start
the
meeting
with
the
Roll
Call
Mr
array
here.
Miss
Brophy
here
here
miss
German
here,
Mr
Hafer,
Mr,
Heckman,
Mr
heinel,
here
Mr,
Hinton,
Mr
halipka.
Here.
B
C
A
A
I
think
we
have
our
microphone
situations
effects
this
week.
Thank
you
very
much.
That's
good
news!
Miss
Bensley!
Are
there
any
changes
to
the
tentative
agendas
published
no
changes.
Madam
chair,
okay.
Tonight
the
planning
board
is
meeting
in
a
work
session
to
further
deliberate
on
the
master
plan
2030..
This
item
was
first
introduced
to
the
board
May
4th
2023
and
a
virtual
public
hearing
was
conducted
on
May
18
2023
on
June
1st
2023.
The
board
began
deliberation
and
will
continue
tonight.
A
D
Yes,
thank
you,
madam
chair.
Just
a
couple
of
items.
First
is
really
not
related
to
the
master
plan,
but
last
Monday,
the
County
council,
at
the
request
of
the
administration,
introduced
legislation
that
enables
the
county
executive
to
compensate
members
of
the
planning
board.
This
came
initially
as
a
result
of
legislation
introduced
in
April
as
part
of
an
employment
and
Executives
compensation
package,
and
part
of
that
was
to
compensate
members
of
The
Fairly,
recently
appointed
police
accountability
board.
D
What
that
led
to
as
a
recognition
that
Baltimore
county
is
on
par
with
almost
every
other
jurisdiction
of
of
our
size.
When
you
think
about
Frederick
Howard,
Hartford,
Anne
Arundel
regarding
most
of
the
boards
and
commissions
and
the
one
that
is
not,
is
the
planning
board
most
other
jurisdictions
compensate
the
planning
board.
So
bill
was
introduced.
It's
Bill
37-23,
which
enables
the
can
Executives
provide
compensation
for
the
planning
board.
D
The
money
is
in
this
year
this
coming
Year's
operating
budget,
and
so
should
the
county
Executives
already
made
the
commitment
that,
should
the
legislation
pass
when
it
goes
to
the
council,
which
will
be
it
was
introduced
past
session,
so
it
would
be
July
3rd
that
money
would
be
available
for
this
compensation.
Unfortunately,
I
don't
know
what
the
implication
is
for
the
financial
disclosures
I'm
sure
there
is
some,
whether
that
has
any
impact
on
the
decision
that
any
of
you
are
not
going
forward.
D
So
I
didn't
want
you
to
hear
about
it
in
the
paper
not
know
it
was
coming,
I'm,
not
sure
how
many
of
you
were
even
aware
of
the
bill
had
been
introduced,
but
they,
the
account
executive,
takes
very
seriously
the
work
the
planning
board
does,
and
it
was
at
the
excuse
me
at
the
initial
meeting
when
actually
it
was
chairman
Jones
who
asked
about
the
planning
board.
Specifically,
he
suggested
that
look
at
compensation
for
the
board,
knowing
what
other
jurisdictions
do
now
we're
not
Montgomery
County.
E
D
So
I
think
again
as
a
reflection
and
recognition
to
work
with
the
board
is
as
engaged
in
would
be
expected
to
engage
in
going
forward.
I've
it'll
be
led
by
the
administration
chief
administrative
officer,
Stacy
Rogers
will
be
carrying
those
forward
to
the
council.
Their
work
session
actually
will
be
next
I
believe
next
week.
D
D
Yeah,
the
other
two
things
I'll
I'm
in
on
Madam
chair-
is
that
two
questions
were
posed
for
us
to
look
into
a
research
and
we
did
and
I
think
Taylor
and
Courtney
as
well
as
people
in
the
county
executive's
office,
Anne
Arundel
County
has
had
four
comprehensive
zonings
since
1972
the
last
was
in
2011,
so
that
and
they've
just
started
a
new
one
this
year.
So
that's
12
years
without
a
comprehensive
plan
with
without
renewing
the
comprehensive
plan.
Baltimore
city
has
what
they
call
a
six-year
strategy.
D
Carroll
County
does
its
comprehensive
plan.
Excuse
me
it's
a
conference
plan.
This
is
I'm
talking
about
czmp
the
comprehensive
zoning
process.
I'm,
sorry
comprehensive
zoning
process
in
Anne
Arundel,
like
12
years
without
rezoning,
Baltimore
City,
looks
at
it
every
six
years.
Carroll
County
is
every
six
years.
D
Frederick
County
does
it
in
conjunction
with
small
area
plans.
They
don't
have
a
routine
or
regular
cycle
Harford,
as
Mr
perlow
pointed
out
before
is
every
eight
years
and
in
Howard
County
it's
approximately
every
10
years,
so
our
cycle
is
very
different
than
anybody
else's.
We
also
had
a
meeting
with
the
county
attorney
and
she
is
one
of
the
County
attorneys
and
she's
indicated
that
there
is
no
set
format
in
which
the
the
master
plan
or
comprehensive
plan
has
to
be
presented.
D
We
do
have
cycle
zoning
here
in
the
county
as
well.
It
is
basically
put
on
hold
during
the
comprehensive
zoning
process,
but
it
also
it
is
specified
in
in
the
code
my
understanding
and
I'm,
not
exactly
sure
but
I
think
the
standards
are
mistake
or
change.
So
there's
there's
a
fairly
High
bar
for
actually
seeking
a
change
even
in
the
established
cycle
and
I'm,
not
sure
if
in
Baltimore
City
they
have
a
different
standard
premises.
A
B
And
a
couple
of
the
other
planning
staff
they
were
able
to
answer.
You
know
great
many
of
my
questions
that
I
had
sort
of
laid
out
one
of
the
issue,
one
of
the
things
I
couldn't
wrap.
My
head
around
was
this
idea
of
what
was
the
sort
of
unit
that
I'm
used
to
thinking
in
terms
of
census,
tracts
or
some
unit
like
that
and
I
couldn't
quite
figure
out
how
they
were
assigning
numbers
to
anything?
B
And
what
was
explained
is
you
got
to
think
of
this
in
terms
of
of
a
map
that
you're
taking
a
math
and
you're?
Taking
some,
you
know,
you're
going
to
Overlay
census,
tracts
and
so
you've
got
one
set
of
boundaries
and
then
you're
going
to
Overlay
another
set
and
every
time
you
do
that
you're
sort
of
slicing
these
boundaries
into
smaller
and
smaller
or
different
segments.
Some
of
them
will
be
large.
B
Some
of
them
could
be
smaller,
but
I
think
what
we
said
was
like
they're
like
when
you
start
when
they
did
that
with
all
of
their
criteria.
You
wound
up
with
like
9,
000,
polygons
or
so
across
the
county.
So
every
one
of
those
polygons
then
has
a
score
attached
to
it,
based
on
the
ranking
that
you
know
that
they
discussed
for
that
overlay,
and
so
the
overlay
may
go
over
several
polygons
with
you
know.
Each
polygon
will
get
that
score.
B
B
E
B
So
you
start
with
those
and,
like
I
said
those
could
be
of
different
sizes
with
different
populations
and
those
scores,
I
think
range,
I,
think.
Theoretically,
they
could
go
up
to
70
something,
but
in
practice
it
was
like
40
somethings
and
you
know,
there's
they.
You
know
they
were
showing
me.
It's
got
a
pretty
normal,
somewhat
skewed
distribution.
So
then
the
question
is:
where
do
you
divide
and
to
do
that?
They
use
a
type
of
cluster
analysis.
Now
the
challenge
with
any
of
the
cluster
analyzes
I
mean
I've
done
my
fair
share.
B
B
They
did
some.
They
came
up
with
some
cluster
scores
and
you
know
those
were
the
scores
that
then
led
to
the
place
maps
that
they
had
so
in
terms
of
the
underlying
metrics
I
mean
it
sounds
like
that
was
sort
of
based
off
of
just
the
you
know.
The
current
planning
field,
Doctrine
I,
think
I'm,
saying
that
right
now
in
terms
of
what
kinds
of
of
things
are
important
and
also
to
try
and
identify
and
I
think
one
of
the
big
things
and
I'm
sure
this
will
be.
B
Your
sort
of
point
of
discussion
is
to
what
degree
are
we
trying
to
identify
where
any
change
can
occur
versus
to
what
degree
are
we
trying
to
identify
where
we
would
like
to
recommend
growth
to
occur?
Those
aren't
the
same
thing.
You
know
you
can
recommend
certain
places
that
still
allow
it
elsewhere,
which
is
how
I'm
now
understanding
the
process,
and
so
given
all
that
you
know
you
then
come
up
with
these
various
scores
and
yeah.
They
were
talking
about
I.
B
Guess
one
of
the
cluster
one
of
the
ways
that
they
cluster
that
I
think
Jenny
said
the
only
place
that
popped
out
was
Towson.
That's
clearly
not
a
good
good
enough.
It's
the
only
place,
you're
going
to
recommend
is
just
this
area,
so
they
have
to
play
around
with
that.
So
yeah
so
I
think
they
were
able
to
to
address
a
lot
of
the
questions
and
issues
I
had
so
I,
don't
have
any
problems
there.
I
did
see
the
more
recent
email
from
the
available
people.
B
This
came
from
and
I
saw
that
they
had
some
questions
about
some
of
the
scoring
whether
the
scoring
was
done
consistently,
and
you
know
whether
there
were
and
as
a
result
whether
there
were
polygons
in
essence,
that
should
have
been
identified
that
weren't
I
had
not
gotten
into
that
level
of
detail.
So
I
don't
have
an
answer
to.
That
certainly
seems
like
a
valid
question,
but
but
in
terms
of
the
questions
that
I
had
posed,
I
thought
that
we
had
a
good
conversation
and
I
thought
they
addressed.
Some
to
my
satisfaction.
G
A
C
H
B
C
C
C
C
C
C
Is
probably
around
depending
on
where
in
the
county
about
15
to
16.?
Well,
the
lowest
is
Baltimore
Highlands
at
1200,
or
so
again
these
are
average
numbers.
So
if
you
want
the
amenities,
I
could
so
I
just
want
to
say
what
does
that
mean
for
that
happen,
so
there,
if
a
person
makes
twenty
dollars
an
hour,
they're
going
to
have
a
household
of
dollars
if
I
apply
the
base,
taxes,
which
is
a
social
security
Medicare
and
a
minimum
attachment
tax
returns
around.
C
A
H
So
we
sent
an
updated
copy
of
the
chart
that
we
used
last
time
and
again
it's
just
to
try
to
help
you
work
through
any
any
recommendations
or
changes
you
want
to
make.
As
far
as
your
vote
next
week,
I
can
go
through.
It
I
think
a
lot
of
it.
We've
already
discussed
and
a
lot
of
there
are
a
couple
Pages
just
for
planning
board
member,
so
I
don't
need
to
go
through
those
I
think
we've
indicated
that
they're
good,
so
I'll
just
note
through
here.
H
So
there
was
a
recommendation
by
Miss
Monero
to
make
some
changes.
So
I've
noted
here
on
the
charts
that
we've
made
those
proposed
changes
again
it's
up
to
you
to
decide
whether
you
like
them
or
not.
If
we're
just
trying
to
help
you
along,
so
you
don't
have
to
stick
with
us
or
not,
but
they're
in
the
word
document.
H
So
if
you
wanted
to
see
where
and
the
content
that
change
would
fall
and
how
it
would
fall,
it's
just
giving
it
to
you
as
something
just
to
look
at,
so
you
can
see
a
little
bit
easier.
So
there
was
a
note
here
about
a
statement
in
the
growth
framework
for,
and
so
we've
added
that
in
here,
where
it
talks
about
adding
some
language
about
section
32
4102a.
H
So
we've
added
that
in
the
second
one
was
there
was
a
note
about
some
of
the
definitions
that
we
cited
in
a
commonly
used
terms.
We've
gone
in
and
made
some
possible
edits
to
that,
and
so,
if
you've
been
given
a
copy
of
an
updated
copy
of
that,
if
you
want
to
look
at
those,
so
you
can
see
if
you
feel
that
that's
sufficient
or
if
that
needs
to
be
looked
at
again
in
some
other
way.
H
I
E
H
Yeah,
so
the
next
piece
was
in
the
vision
framework
on
page
two
on
the
chart,
there
was
a
suggestion
that
staff
had
made
at
the
last
meeting
to
make
an
a
revision
to
add
the
words
and
housing
to
goal
one
action,
one,
and
so
that's
indicated
there.
In
the
word
document,
there
were
no
additional
changes
that
we
proposed.
H
If
that's
you
know,
meets
what
you're
looking
for
in
the
growth
framework,
the
next
piece
was
another
staff
recommendation
where
we
changed
some
language
from
we'll
likely
continue
to
is
permitted
and
outside
these
areas
will
continue
based
on
the
market.
To
that
one,
let's
see
what
else
Place
types
growth
framework,
five
add
language.
At
the
beginning
of
roughly
word
framework
five
clarifying
the
purpose
of
the
core
retrofit
areas.
H
Let's
see
same
for
the
next
one:
revise
the
definitions
in
gf5
of
established
neighborhood
and
connected
neighborhood
we've
drafted.
What
that
could
look
like
the
only
change
that
we
made.
It
was
suggested
that
industrial
be
added
into
the
primary
land
use
and
we
did
not
feel
on
our
part
that
that
fit
in
the
existing
I'm,
sorry,
the
established
or
the
connected
neighborhood.
So
that
was
the
only
difference
from
what
was
proposed
as
to
what
is
shown
there.
H
H
H
The
rest
look
like
mostly
comments.
We've
already
covered.
As
far
as
general
discussion,
we
did
have
an
item
that
was
added
by
planning
board
member
holupca
at
the
last
one
requesting
that
a
new
process
to
review
the
erdle
on
a
regular
basis
be
added.
We
did
not
add
that
information,
but
if
that's
something
you
want
to
propose,
obviously
you
can
you
do
that,
but
I
did
want
to
note
that
in
this,
so
we
have
a
comprehensive
list
of
everything.
H
That's
come
up
same
the
same,
our
same
approach
to
the
recommendation
for
some
changes
to
the
development
process
and
growth
framework,
seven
that
came
from
planning
board
member
Panero.
That
would
be
up
to
the
board
to
maybe
suggest
some
recommendations
for
that.
One
and
I
think
the
rest
of
it
is
like
I
said
mostly
questions
that
councilman
our
planning
board
member
help
that
came
up
with
or
that
we've
addressed
already
in
other
ways.
D
D
D
Least
in
the
contemporaneous
framework,
Mr
Warren,
the
county
has
hired
a
actually
a
Agricultural
Development
specialists
in
the
most
recent
budget
that
the
council
adopted.
They
actually
added
positions
in
Economic
Development
to
help
stand
up
more
aggressive,
I'll
use
the
word
aggressive
focus
on
agriculture,
the
tourism
office
there
so
they're
all
sort
of
intertwined
now
and
trying
to
figure
out
how
they
can
sort
of
marry.
That
up.
D
One
of
the
recommendations
here
in
the
plan
is
to
look
at
what's
called
equine
Legacy
area
that
actually
came
from
the
valley
planning
Council
to
look
more
holistically.
The
equine
industry
in
the
county,
which
it
partly
has
partially
has
a
tourism
element
to
it.
So
the
executives
already
committed-
that's
not
to
say
it
should
mean
the
plan
long
term
for
the
next
executive
could
reverse
all
that.
But
there
is
a
commitment
already
to
focusing
more
attention
in
the
agricultural
Community
than
what
we've
seen
up
to
this
point.
J
J
D
D
A
I
And
complete,
of
course,
to
harm
what
is
raised
there
and
how
your
food
and
things
are
raised.
But
then
the
problem
has
been:
is
people
taking
advantage
of
it
and
move
to
the
next
level
and
it
becomes
a
commercial
operation?
So
there
is
they're
still
working
on
with
ag
preservation,
they're
still
working
on
rules
on
how
to
curb
that.
So
I'll
just
answer
that.
A
A
D
D
D
Is
that
it's
supposed
to
be
of
a
higher
quality?
What
we've
been
seeing,
though,
is
many
of
the
development
mimic
other
developments,
it's
not
necessary
and
we
often
we
always
are
pushing
say
you
have
to
have
a
higher
quality
of
the
product
because
you're
going
outside
what
will
the
established
bounds
if
you
will,
by
going
where
the
zoning
was
not
intended
to
be?
D
Actually,
there
was
conflict
in
the
between
the
zoning
regulations
and
the
code
which
the
council
supplement
would
address
by
because
we
were
reading
it.
Clearly
as
saying
that
you
were
Bound
by
the
underlying
zoning
as
to
what
number
of
units
you
could
construct,
the
council's
changed
that,
but
that's
how
we
were
interpreting
the
conflict
between
the
code
and
it
said
basically,
there's
only
regulations
would
would
prevail.
D
There's
one
PUD,
that's
been.
It's
been
approved
over
off
of
Reisterstown
Road.
That,
basically,
is
a
bank
I.
Don't
think
that
that
Huds
were
intended
to
create
necessarily
a
single
structure.
That
was
not
the
intent
of
the
HUD
process
to
eliminate
the
underlying
zoning,
so
you
can
build
something
else,
and
so
that
that's
been
part
of
our
concern.
D
We
have
not
we're
not
convinced
either
that
the
council
met.
Members
have
adequately
taken
into
account.
County
agency
comments
before
they
issued
their
final
report,
and
so
those
are
the
kind
of
things
we
would
suggest
have
to
be
evaluated,
not
trying
to
do
away
with
puds,
because,
frankly,
I
think
we
need
to
see
a
lot
more
mixed-use
development
accounting.
We
need
to
see
some
more
creative
development
activities,
and
that
means
the
underlying
zoning
has
to
be
altered
to
drive
it.
That
way,
then
I
think
that's
what
we
have
to
take
into
account.
D
The
outcomes
that
we're
looking
at,
but
the
process
that
we're
hearing
from
a
lot
of
people
who've
participated
in
the
process.
Community
members
field
needs
to
be
re-examined,
so
I'm
not
trying
to
kill
we're,
not
trying
to
kill
putts
I'll
tell
you
that
the
community
members
generally
become
anti-development
as
soon
as
they
own
their
home.
G
Of
developments
I
think
the
one
you're
talking
about
at
Reisterstown
Road
is
the
books
Lane
for
a
Chase
Bank
is
an
absolute
proper
use
for
the
property
where
it
is
on
a
commercial
artery.
I've
had
made
the
argument
many
times
in
commercial
development.
One
of
our
major
Partners
happens
to
be
approved
and
redeveloped
and
has
to
take
place
so
we're
we're
going
to
be
a
very
stagnant
County
in
another
20
years.
J
Which,
which
is
needed
because
of
the
affordability
as
Todd's
talked
about
and
I've
talked
about
for
years,
that
that's
important
to
me,
but
we
can't
rezone
something
that
belongs
to
be
an
affordable
housing
project
that
a
church
wants
to
have
and
those
discussions
recently
again
with
Council
people.
That's
a
major
concern.
J
So
if
they
wanted
to
bring
that
in
as
a
giving
the
people
the
opportunity
to
discuss
that-
and
maybe
still
not
you
know
getting
their
their
voices
heard,
if
that's
what
you're
trying
to
suggest
I
think
that
it's
really
the
concern
for
us
to
be
making
these
changes
again,
especially
with
the
10-year
comprehensive
rezoning,
but
even
more
so
I.
Just
think
that
we're
going
to
need
to
take
some
of
this
land
that's
out
there
and
you
know
whether
it's
LaFarge
or
not,
I
mean
this
is
landing.
J
If
it's
can't
be,
you
know
an
industrial,
you
know
warehousing
site,
then
it
needs
to
have
a
bud.
That's
going
to
allow
it
to
be
developed,
it's
residential,
that's
the
answer
sometimes,
and
that's
what
the
neighborhood
people
are
going
to
be.
Looking
for.
I
understand
it's
a
community,
but
you
know
I
think
that
there's
some
thought
that
has
to
go
into
that-
and
you
know
I'm
concerned
that
that's
not
going
to
be
available
to
us
on
board
in
this
County
I
spent
my
whole
life
in
real
estate.
J
So
it
is
a
concern
to
me
personally
at
that
point.
So
what
are
you?
What
are
you
saying
Howard?
We
should
just
keep
everything
the
same.
I
don't
want
to
be
the
same,
but
I
do
think
that
you
know
I
think
it
has
worked.
I
think
that
I
can
name
10
projects
that
have
been
well
designed,
new
construction.
That.
G
I
think
excuse
me
a
long
time
ago,
freakedown
houses
and
they
don't
look
so
great,
but
I
can
go.
Look
at
Valerie,
I
know
the
project,
but
I
can
look
at
Ballard,
green
and
I
can
look
at
the
party
on
Greenspring
Avenue
and
see
just
a
wonderful
developments
that
have
been
done
and
I'm
sure
there's
another
10
or
15
I
could
name
yeah.
J
A
We
put
this
document
together
and
what
we
needed
to
do
is
decide.
Are
we
going
to
go
issue
by
issue
and
vote
which
way
we
want
the
one
because
honestly
I
think
no
disrespect
anybody,
but
we're
we've
had
these
discussions.
We
all
know
it,
but
just
the
only
way
we
get
to
the
end
you
want
to
do
that.
Do
you
want
to
take
issues
I
think
you
need
to
have
it
now
discussion
then,
and
it
could
be
a
long
discussion.
No,
that's
absolutely
fine.
Yeah.
B
So
then
the
question
is:
does
it
have
the
right
underlying
zoning,
which
is
a
zoning
question
which
isn't
really
touched
and
if
you're
getting
rid
of
the
Pod
process-
and
we
go
to
a
10-year,
then
the
question
is:
is
there
some
other
mechanism
sort
of
what
you
were
suggesting
some
other
jurisdictions
in
and
or
should
we
be
trying
to
foreign
the
zoning
so
that
there's
more
flexibility
in
those
zones
and
that's
not
really
discussed
either?
You
know
so
I'm,
not
sure
this
is
where
I'm
after
what
happened.
B
So
you
get
some
piece
of
of
some
strip
shopping
center
along
one
of
the
major
quarters.
Some
developer
comes
in
and
says
they
want
to
do
something,
but
it
doesn't
have
the
right
Zone.
Let's
say
it's
two
years
from
now:
what's
the
process
to
change
that
I'm,
not
quite
sure,
I
understand,
what's
being
proposed
versus
I
mean
right
now
it
would
be
a
PUD.
G
Inn
I
disagree:
okay,
the
vp's
along
Reisterstown
Road
a
bowling
alley,
a
Target
lots
of
things
that
are
not
they've
lived
residentially
there.
At
that
point
we
don't
want
to
have
that
argument.
My
point
is
it
didn't
have
as
it
had
the
zoning,
but
it
didn't
have
as
and
one
of
the
gas
stations
Wawa
Royal
Farm,
whichever
one
you
want
to
pick,
would
like
to
put
a
station
there.
G
Okay,
there
was
that
discussion
to
have
a
Wawa
on
the
other
side
or
another
gas
station
where
the
men's,
warehouses
and
Freddie
Brown's
Jewelry,
Store,
okay,
to
tear
it
down
and
put
something
there
I
understand
that
people
don't-
and
maybe
we
won't
need
gas
in
another
20
years,
because
our
governor
passed
a
bill
that
says
we'll
have
to
have
electric
cars
by
2035..
That's
a
good
thing:
okay,
I'm!
Okay
on
that,
but
whatever
the
development
might
be.
G
This
is
a
major
Carter
and
it
needs
to
happen,
and
it
can't
happen
without
a
zoning
cycle
because
the
as
can
only
happen
in
the
in
the
zoning
cycle,
and
that's
my
concern
of
what
we're
going
to
do
to
our
major
Carters.
Even
if
you
want
to
do
Residential
on
an
old
shopping
center,
okay,
they
built
it
behind
Foundry
Road,
there's
450
units
there.
You
know
how
I
pay
attention
to
whether
or
not
they're
least
or
not.
I
haven't
called
the
developer.
G
It's
Avalon,
but
I,
look
to
see
how
many
chairs
are
on
their
porches
and
every
time
I
drive
by
there.
That's
what
I
look
at
how
many
of
them
have
Sitting
chairs
on
their
porch
and
they're
very
substantially
leased
at
this
point.
So
people
do
want
to
live
like
that,
but
that's
not
available
again
without
a
zoning
cycle
and
maybe
without
puds,
so
I'm
very
concerned
about
those.
Those
two
issues
is
what
I'm
focused
on,
not
all
the
little
words
and
things
that
you
all
might
do.
C
Oh
Scott,
I
I
would
say
that
I
agree
that
I
struggle
with
the
same
thing
I
would
love
there
to
be
a
system
where
people
could
come
on
a
monthly
basis
and
apply
for
zoning.
The
community
would
go
apoplectic
and
it's
not
fair
to
the
community.
It's
not
fair
to
the
community.
They
couldn't
they
couldn't
mobilize.
They
couldn't
so
that
that's.
B
C
C
Personally,
four
versus
ten:
it's
like
what
is
the
reasonable
amount
of
that,
and
then
we
have
to
have
some
ability
in
that
four-year
cycle
to
make
adjustments
again
because
the
communities
are
the
needs
of
the
community
are
going
to
change
dramatically
in
that
period
of
time
in
a
four-year
cycle.
The
community.
You
know
it's
going
to
change
the
world's
just
changing
so
much
faster
and
it.
B
Did
yeah
but
I,
don't
think
we're
disagree,
I
guess
the
other.
The
other
thought
that
we
have
not
discussed
and
what
I
was
trying
to
raise.
I
know
that
there
are
lots
of
jurisdictions
around
the
country
that
are
basically
saying
they
are
getting
rid
of
the
single
family
zoning
that
they
will
allow
some
increase
in
density
anywhere.
Anybody
wants
to
propose
it,
which
doesn't
mean
that's
going
to
happen
everywhere,
but
you
at
least
have
that
ability.
The
question
is
so
that
was
sort
of
my
question.
B
C
Think
that's
the
problem
that
I
I
see
with
this
is
we'll
meet
for
a
gazillion
hours,
we'll
we'll
recommend
rezoning.
The
community
will
come
out
with
certain
councilmen
and
they'll
say
we're
not
going
to
have
any
growth
in
our
communities
and
growth
needs
to
be
driven
to
other
communities
in
our
usually
based
on
social
economic
issues.
The
developments
moved
out
of
those
communities.
C
That's
how
our
system
set
up
as
a
county,
so
no
one
goes
against
councilman
courtesy,
so
it
just
doesn't
happen
and
so
as
a
county
as
a
board
for
the
county.
We
need
to
think
about
that,
and
and
I
would
love
that
I
think
that
would
be
ideal
if
we
could
change
the
Zoning
for
some
strip
centers
to
allow
them
to
have
multiple
uses.
But
we
tried
that
with
the
Triple
C's
and
they
were
all
turned
down-
am
I
wrong
on
that
I.
Don't
think
I'm
wrong
with
that
properties.
E
Right
learning
is
comprehensive.
Zoning
not
ccmp
I,
get
that
so
like
like
chairman
halfway
was
saying
so,
but
if
we
go
through
and
everybody
like
vote
no
on
10
years
easy
and
be
great,
then
we
stick
with
four
years
right,
but
my
other
kind
of
like
Panera
said
too
like
so.
But
how
do
we
move
forward?
Like?
Yes,
all
understand,
everybody's
opinions
on
a
certain
sections,
but
unless
we're
gonna
actually
suggest
the
planning
board
and
then
the
language
specifically
in
certain
sections,
my.
L
E
A
G
L
G
L
I
Know
go
ahead,
go
ahead,
go
ahead,
say
on
the
amount
of
time
between
different
changes.
Major
changes,
the
average
person
who
invests
in
a
nice
house,
a
nice
neighborhood,
even
a
five-year
or
a
four-year
thing,
is
pretty
short
for
them
to
have
to
worry
about
some
major
development
right
next
to
them.
So
that's
the
reason
that
some
are
proposing
a
longer
interim
in
between
any
major
changes.
C
C
D
No
I
I
just
wanted
to
sort
of
step
back
and
reestablish
the
context
that
this
is
a
work
session.
A
voting
session
that
specific
the
intent
is
soon
presumably
next
week.
But
if
it's
not
next
week
when
the,
when
the
board
reconvenes
to
actually
go
through
and
offer
specific
amendments,
it
does,
as
Ms
Brophy
said,
requires
specific
language,
whether
it's
some
tourism
or
housing,
or
you
know,
changing
what
is
in
document
regarding
czmp
or
puds.
D
D
Thank
you
well,
I,
guess
to
your
comments
in
the
Mr
perlows.
Yes,
it
is
it's
your
document,
but
the
question
is:
what
changes
do
you
make
to
the
document
you
have
in
front
of
you
and,
if
you,
but
you
need
to
have
a
process
by
which
the
majority
of
you
say
this
is
a
change
that
we
want
in
the
document
and
so
whether
it's
a
hand
boat
or
an
eye
vote
of
something.
But
then
we
need
to
have
the
specific
language
that
you
either
want
to
strike
or
you
want
to
add.
D
C
F
C
We
want
to
amend
it,
but
it
should
be
a
working
session
where
we
work
on
it.
First
and
I
appreciate
it.
Chairman
and
I
don't
mean
to
talk
over
you,
but
I'm,
not
a
planner,
so
I
may
not
have
the
proper
wordage
of
the
language.
The
staff
is
here
to
help
us
with
that.
So
we
can
talk
about
what
we
want
in
there
and
then
they
can
put
it
in
the
proper
language
that
supports
what
we.
D
Want
to
have
we
need
to
ensure
we
accurately
reflect
what
it
is
you
want,
and
unless
you're
able
to
articulate
what
you
want,
don't
want
to
go
back
to
sort
of
what
Mr
perlow
is
suggesting
that
it
has
all
come
from
the
planning
staff.
This
has
got
to
come
from
you
and,
if
you
say,
I
want
a
statement
in
there,
it
says
the
county
should
invest
resources
to
promote
agritourism.
D
J
D
A
B
Ahead
is
this
just
procedural,
the
documents
that
you
guys
handed
us
today,
so
this
is
sort
of
a
non-mappy
version
of
what
it
was
and
the
highlights
are
the
changes
that,
based
on
the
comments
that
we've
already
had
right.
So
if
we
were
just
to
go
through
this,
that
would
give
us
sort
of
a
first
pass
of
some
of
the
issues.
H
That's
correct,
that's
that
was
just
you
know,
just
the
straight
text
in
a
Word
document
that
would
give
you
an
opportunity
just
to
see
it
if
you
were
going
to
make
amendments
to
it
kind
of
where
it
falls
within
the
content
of
that
section.
Just
to
give
you
a
little
tool
to
use
when
looking
at
that.
D
L
Go
over
the
changes
privately
at
home
and
then,
since
we
cannot
vote
this
evening,
we
have
to
come
back
next
week
and
vote
anyway,
so
everybody
takes
some
time
go
over
the
changes
that
have
been
made.
Not
everything
has
been
changed.
Think
about
what
you
want
to
change,
amend
whatever
we
want
to
say,
and
then
we
vote
on
that
line
by
line
next
week,
we're
not
voting
tonight.
So
that's.
We
know
that.
D
D
G
Possibly
have
problems
you
know
getting
to
served
because
I
won't
be
able
to
say
that
I
might
have
invested
in
some
point.
It's
a
volunteer
position
and
that's
why
I
sometimes
think
that
I
can
talk
whether
somebody
else
in
the
county
might
not
want
me
to
the
money.
Isn't
that
important
to
me
I
know
other
counties
they
substantially
more
than
that.
G
A
H
H
I
E
And
I
know
I
kind
of
mentioned
this
before
so,
and
I
know
director
Lafferty
mentioned
so
my
thing
is
I.
Do
feel
that
the
Dynamics
of
the
demographics
and
the
communities
do
change
more
often
than
every
10
years,
so
we're
just
going
on
working
with
a
framework
I
mean
I
would
basically
strike
the
language
that
moves
the
comprehensive
zoning
map
process
to
10
years
instead
of
four
years
in
whatever
sections
I
mean.
Obviously
we're
not
voting
on
it,
that's
just
where
I
would
start.
E
The
discussion
is
that
unless
we
review
underlying
cycle
zoning
processes
and
other
ways
to
go
about
off-cycle
zoning
changes,
as
other
board
members
have
mentioned.
I
would
strike
all
language
in
the
plan
that
has
it
shifted
to
10
years.
So
that
would
be
what
I
would
suggest
to
you
guys,
and
then
we
can
vote
on
an
Excel.
L
The
rezoning
is
is
Paramount
to
Redevelopment,
and
if
we
go
every
10
years,
it's
going
to
completely
destroy
Redevelopment
anyone
who
works
in
commercial,
real
estate.
Anybody
who
has
anything
to
do
with
commercial
real
estate
at
all
it
to
wait.
10
years
will
just
be
absolutely
crushing
to
the
development
community.
E
Six
years
so,
and
that's
why
I
said
I'm
I'm
not
saying
like
I'm
dead
set
on
four
years,
I,
don't
really
know
how
that
four
years
was
set
right,
Miss
Wolfson,
because
others
are
six
eight,
whatever
mine's
more
just
if
there's
no
underlying
process
in
between
those.
That's
my
concern.
I,
don't
know
if
we
can
change
language
of
it's
like
one.
F
Think,
or
makes
a
lot
of
sense
in
this
scenario,
because
council
members
serve
in
four-year
terms,
you're,
giving
there's
no
guarantee
that
any
particular
council
member
gets
a
chance
to
serve
again.
They
have
to
run
for
reelection,
I,
think
the
opportunity
for
each
one
of
them
and
sees
EMP
being
one
of
their
biggest
opportunities
to
make
an
impact
on
their.
B
F
I
A
I
absolutely
believe
it
should
be
for
the
Fords
I
think
that
six
and
eight
just
takes
too
long
and
just
causes
delays
of
projects
that
then
need
six
or
eight
years.
I
would
say
to
you
Mr
Lafferty,
if
you
would
like
us
to
as
a
board,
consider
a
motion
to
ask
the
county
executive
now
and
in
the
future
to
make
sure
your
budget
carries
enough
weight
because
I
read
the
paragraph
here,
where
the
possibility
of
a
streamlined
workflow
is
difficult.
A
I
understand
that
if
you
need
more
staff,
I'll
see
you
as
a
member
of
the
planning
board,
that
the
planning
department
has
enough
staff
to
do
it
every
four
years.
If
it
has
caused
those
issues
which
I
understand
that
again
I
see
how
much
work
it
is
I've
seen
the
meetings
we
all
have
as
volunteers,
maybe
not
someday,
but
right
now.
A
I.
Just
think
that
it's
it's
the
proper
time
frame.
I
think
you
know
Steve's
comments
as
to
the
council
if
they
really
mess
it
up.
The
councilman
when
they're
elected
they'll
be
out
of
office
the
next
time
by
the
voters
in
that
District.
If
they've,
really
screwed
up
the
the
zoning
in
their
District,
yeah
I
would
like
I
think
we
should
strike
both
the
ccmp
and
the
Pod
changes
from
the
plan.
A
A
D
Might
allow
some
spot
zoning
if
it's
needed
you
know,
do
you
not
want
to
have
a
Foundry
row
happen
if
it
was
really
good
for
the
county
and
they
needed
one
little
piece
in
the
middle
done
so
I
think
giving
the
council
some
ability
to
come
back
and
do
certain
things
that
gives
you
some
flexibility
in
between
the
four
years
now.
Does
everybody
understand?
What's
just
my
name?
D
Is
those
are
two
different
things
because
the
council
can
amend
the
master
plan
anytime,
you
want
right
now,
I
mean
they
have
that's
when
you
adopt
a
community
plan
and
it
becomes
an
amendment
to
a
master
plan,
for
instance,
the
land
preservation
plan
that
the
board
endorsed
was
adopted
by
the
council
as
an
amendment
of
the
master
plan,
so
they're
currently
able
to
they're
not
changing
the
zoning,
they
are
changing.
The
master
plan,
which
is
Mr,
lift,
has
said
earlier.
A
H
A
J
A
E
E
J
K
C
A
A
E
G
You
all
want
to
look
into
it
and
take
four
years
to
you,
know,
look
at
it
and
to
discuss
it
and
see
ideas.
If
that's
what
we
really
our
job
is.
Is
the
planning
board
okay
to
direct
apartments
and
really
come
back
with
it?
I
feel
that
the
pugs
have
worked
for
the
last
15
years,
I've
seen
major
discussions
at
the
hearings.
G
Maybe
there's
a
better
way
than
that,
but
I
do
feel
that
there
are
many
very
successful
planned
unit
developments
in
our
County
that
have
been
accepted
as
great
projects
until
the
people
were.
Somebody
somebody
losing
I,
don't
want
to
make
it
just
presidential,
because
there
are
some
very
successful
puns
on
Valley
and
others
in.
L
G
L
I,
don't
disagree
with
what
Mr
Lafferty
said
earlier,
that
they
should
be
creative,
but
that's
part
of
the
Pud
process
is
the
creativity
of
those
involved,
the
developers
involved
and
also
with
the
input
from
the
community.
So
it
gives
people
you
know
everybody
gets
involved
with
that
with
that
process.
Well,
I
remember
when
we
looked
at
the
Liberty
Road
stuff
and
all.
G
G
You
know
that's
not
a
bad
thing,
then
at
that
point
and
if
we
say
no
to
it
because
we're
the
planning
board
and
we
want
changes.
The
city
does
that
with
their
architectural
committee,
all
the
time
in
their
apartment
houses.
Every
architect
knows,
I
was
with
one
this
morning.
He
knows
he's
going
to
get
kicked
back
every
time.
He
comes
in
the
first
time,
so
somebody's
looking
at
that.
G
B
So
that's
to
be
clear.
So,
what's
in
the
current
Drive
of
the
master
plan,
it
sounds
like
exactly
what
we're
talking
about.
I
mean
what
it
says
is
the
Pod
process
should
be
reviewed
comprehensively,
along
with
the
impacts
of
the
admission
of
the
planning
board
and
the
approval
process.
A
PUD
task
force
should
be
created
to
study
existing
processes
and
make
recommendations
to
make
it
easier
for
retrofitting
communities
as
suggests
and
the
growth
growth
framework.
B
G
Do
we
need
the
council's
permission
to
direct
the
planning
staff
that
we
would
like
to
look
at
it
not
to
look
at
our
own
but
again
investigate
other
parts
of
the
country
that
and
I
look
I've
always
said:
bully
Rock
up
in
Hartford
County
is
just
an
unbelievably
wonderful
development
and
golf
course
clubhouse
pools
everything
that
you
want
to
see
in
a
Bud.
Okay,
it's
2
000
units,
I,
don't
think
we
have
a
2
000
unit
Club
in
Baltimore
County.
G
You
know,
maybe
that
is
a
great
senior
kind
of
project
to
live
in
you'd,
go
up
into
Pennsylvania
now
and
you
see
all
of
these
senior
projects.
There's
one
Amber
Brooks
we're
doing
a
lot
of
settlements
in
now.
So
maybe
that
is
a
good
thing
that
we
should
be
looking
at
it
and
saying
that's
what
we
need
for
our
seniors
and
it
isn't
high
rise
of
you
know
for
seniors.
G
I
guess
I'm,
just
not
clear
as
to
why
you
don't
want
it
in
there,
I
mean
why
we
want
to
get
out
I'm,
not
saying
against
it.
I'm
just
trying
to
understand
why
you
want
to
take
it
out,
just
don't
know
that
it
belongs
in
the
master
plan.
I
just
I,
just
think
that
you
know
you're
saying
that
there's
a
problem
with
the
plugs
and
we
need
to
evaluate
it.
J
But
puds
are
part
of
the
development
process
and
that's
what
this
section
is
talking
about,
because
different
pieces
of
the
process
and
to
me
the
language
is
pretty
benign,
I
mean
if
it's,
it
is
part
of
all
what
we're
talking
about
the
puds
and
the
czmp
are
all
part
of
looking
the
process.
So
if
we
want
to
say
we
want
to
look
at
it
and
see
if
there's
ways
we
can
improve
on
it,
I'm.
Okay,
with
that
and
I,
think
that's
what
this
says
well,
I'm,
not
sure
that.
G
J
C
C
J
C
K
G
K
C
G
K
A
E
E
E
G
Discussion,
a
larger
discussion
about
what
this
I
don't
think:
it's
changing
anything
any
of
the
costs.
Any
of
the
current
processes
I
can
live,
I
can
live
with
it
if
it
comes
back
at
the
planning
board
is
in
charge
of
that
so
to
speak,
and
the
decision
will
be
made
by
the
planning
board,
not
by
the
County
Council.
G
Okay
I
mean
I'm
just
trying
to
take
it
out
of
their
hands
at
this
point,
because
I'm
not
happy
with
what
they
did
here
without
a
discussion
with
us
and
are
we
just
not
useful
at
all
or
not
that's
what
I'm
looking
for
is
that
they
don't
have
the
ability
to
continue
to
change
it
and
get
rid
of
it
without
us
and
it
might
be
a
year
project.
I
can't
sort
of
obey
could
be
longer
yeah.
It's
going
to
be
a
football,
the
communities.
G
So
then
that's
what
our
job
is
supposed
to
be
is
to
give
these
Council
people
their
their
cover
and
we'll
take
on
the
responsibility
of
having
the
hearings.
If
that's
what
it
is
not
and
it
might
not
be
till
after
zoning's
done,
but
maybe
the
following
year,
we
make
that
a
project
for
us
as
a
planning
board
so
that
we
do
we
hold
up
at
all.
G
A
Time,
that's
what's
going
to
happen,
so
it's
going
to
slow
the
process
down
for
every
development,
but
when
you
get
the
board
feels
comfortable
about
it
as
a
whole.
So
we
should
ask
from
everybody:
that's
here
how
you
feel
about
that
that
we
make
it
wherever
the
planning
board
is
the
source
of
the
process
ity.
To
do
that,
they
can
make
I
thought.
He
said
that
the
council
had
the
ability
to
change
it,
but
they
always
can
yeah,
but
I
mean
so
I
mean
the
process.
We
can
each
individual
project.
D
So,
instead
of
just
saying,
create
a
task
force
to
Mr
perlow's
point:
it's
that
the
planning
board
sort
of
owns
the
study
of
the
process,
and
this
was
intended
to
look
at
the
process
not
to
review
any
given
specific
HUD.
The
planning
department
does
that
now
in
our
normal
course
of
development
review,
we
look
at
Bud
applications
and
those
don't
come
up
to
the
planning
board.
D
G
Think
that
I'm
necessarily
looking
for
us
to
include
departments-
okay
for
us
to
be
able
to
look
at
this,
and
it's
not
the
council
I
hate
to
use
the
word.
I'll
get
yelled
at
by
a
few
of
them,
I'm
sure
dictating
to
them
that
they
can't
pass
what
they
just
did.
Okay
without
some
discussion,
I
think
that
that's
very
unfair
to
the
business
community.
G
G
What
frequency
I
think
we're
going
to
look
at
it
in
the
next
in
a
couple
years.
I
can't
tell
you,
with
zoning
that
they're
going
to
have
time
to
do
it
until
that's
finished,
but
I
think
that
it
leaves
it
for
us
to
begin
an
investigation,
a
task
force,
and
it
might
mean
some
additional
hearings,
and
you
know
a
year
from
now
or
a
year
and
a
half
from
now
to
look
at
the
HUD
process.
There
could
be
better
things
that
we
could
add
to
the
flood
process,
not
always
negative.
Okay.
G
Maybe
there
are
some
things
and
I
I
just
feel
that
we'll
hear
from
the
community
on
all
sides
and
then
hopefully
we
can
look
at
it
and
it's
maybe
because
it's
one
issue,
then
not
this
whole
master
plan
that
we're
trying
to
get
approved.
But
it's
one
issue
that
we
can
now
have
a
major
review
of
and
Kathy.
If
you
think,
there's
things
wrong
with
it,
then
we'll
bring
it
up.
A
E
D
D
D
H
H
D
D
D
J
D
And
I'm
sure,
if
I
may
I
mean
there
may
be
some
Middle
Ground
here
really
the
links
were
added
or
included
to
provide
additional
information.
If
people
wanted
to
drill
down
further
into
a
specific
issue
or
definitions
and
things
of
this
nature,
but
a
substantial
number
of
the
links
are
from
federal,
state
or
local
government,
and
we
also
have
a
link,
for
instance,
to
sustainable
places,
which
is
the
basis
for
this
plan
structure.
D
We
have
a
link
to
lean,
which
is
the
U.S
Green
Building
Code,
and
that's
the
lead
standard.
So
we
have
like
different.
If
you
will
categories
of
links
that
are
in
this
document
and
I,
don't
my
own
personal
thought
is
if
it
comes
not
that
we're
from
the
government
we're
here
to
help
you,
but
you
know
it
comes
from
federal
EPA.
If
it
comes
from
Baltimore
County.
If
it
comes
from
the
state
of
Maryland,
then
those
have
a
different
status
Maybe
and
that
eliminating
all
links
is
not
necessarily
the
best
way
to
proceed.
D
D
We
have
these
challenges
all
the
time
in
the
County
government,
even
though
we
have
a
terrific
security
system,
so
it
may
be
that
we
could
stratify
the
links
in
that
way,
because
I
think
we
have
to
have
a
link
to
the
APA
American
Planning
Association,
sustaining
places,
because
that's
people
say
what
the
heck
does.
All
that
mean
you
know
unless
we're
going
to
summarize
it
entirely
within
the
document
which
is
not
viable.
D
D
D
D
D
D
D
J
D
I'll
speak
for
the
staff.
You
know,
we
appreciate
the
dialogue,
you
know
it's.
This
is
important.
It's
a
very
important
business
for
the
board
and,
yes,
the
staff,
as
I
think
done
some
really
overtime
efforts
to
bring
the
information
to
you
and
we're
glad
it
helps
better,
inform
the
vote
and
makes
a
better
document.
I
D
H
D
This
has
been
in
discussion
for
a
while
and
while
I
knew
that
there
was
some
discussion
about
doing
this,
that
this
sort
of
dropped
real
quickly
and
she
was
very
apologetic
for
not
having
a
chance
to
talk
to
me
or
talk
with
the
board
members
about
I.
Don't
know
that
she
controlled
the
timing
of
women's
chairman
was
going
to
drop.
D
D
D
Well,
yeah
and
I,
you
know,
there's
like
I
said
the
bill
just
got
introduced
so
I,
don't
know
if
there's
conflict
of
interest
issues
or
if
there's
ethical
issues
for
any
individual
or
collectively
or
the
right
to
refuse
to
accept
I,
mean
I
or,
like
I,
said
earlier
in
any
impact
on
your
financial
disclosures,
which
probably
puts
you
in
a
different
category
than
what
you
currently
have
to
file.
So
those
things
I
just
don't
know
I,
can
try
and
find
out
as
much
as
I
can
and
share
with
all
of
you.
D
D
It
initially
started
because
the
police
accountability
board
and
request
from
the
executive
to
compensate
those
members,
and
so
they
looked
at
started
looking
at.
They
were
asked
them
to
look
at
other
boards
and
commissions
because
there
was
concerned
by
a
couple
of
council
members
that
well
why
just
them,
and
not
everybody.