►
Description
No description was provided for this meeting.
If this is YOUR meeting, an easy way to fix this is to add a description to your video, wherever mtngs.io found it (probably YouTube).
A
Welcome
to
the
September
2021
2023
meeting
of
the
Baltimore
County
planning
board.
It
is
now
called
to
order
I'm,
Nancy
Hafford,
the
chair
of
the
board
and
I'll
now
start
this
meeting
with
a
roll
call
of
our
planning
board
members
that
are
present.
When
you
hear
your
name,
please
say:
aye
Mr
array,
Miss,
Brophy,
aye,
Mr,
Mr,
German,
I,.
C
A
A
A
A
A
A
First
on
the
agenda,
we
have
a
presentation
by
Mr
Steve
Lafferty,
director
of
the
Department
of
planning
and
miss
Sally
Nash,
the
the
deputy
director
of
the
Department
of
permits,
approvals
and
inspections
on
electric
vehicles
charging
stations.
This
matter
comes
to
the
planning
board
as
a
result
of
the
council's
resolution,
14-23,
which
asks
the
board
to
review
the
public
electric
vehicle
charging
stations
and
consider
recommendations
for
possible
legislation
to
integrate
this
relatively
new
technology
as
a
permitted
use
in
Baltimore
County
zoning
regulations.
After
Mr,
Lafferty
and
Miss
Nash
have
finished
their
introductions.
A
E
Next
slide,
please.
So,
as
the
the
chairwoman
indicated,
this
comes
to
you
based
on
resolution
1423
that
comes
from
the
County
Council.
This
review
included
benchmarking
of
various
laws,
policies
and
best
practices,
not
only
for
Maryland
entities
and
jurisdictions,
but
also
from
other
places
in
the
in
this
country.
We
also
have
recommendations
regarding
safety
and
sighting
standards
to
be
considered.
I'll
provide
some
of
the
background
then
turn
this
over
to
Ms
Nash
to
go
through
the
key
recommendations.
E
Greenhouse
gas
emissions
coming
from
the
combustion
of
fossil
fuels
are
really
driving
so
much
of
the
climate
change
that
we
are
seeing
in
this
country.
In
fact,
Transportation
tends
to
be
one
of
the
leading
causes
of
greenhouse
gas
emissions,
and
the
county
has
demonstrated
its
commitment
to
addressing
these
through
a
number
of
executive
orders
from
the
county
executive
since
January
2021
just
a
little
over
two
years
ago,
EV
sales
actually
have
tripled
in
this
country,
with
the
available
public
charging
ports
actually
growing
as
well.
E
The
total
number
of
EVS
has
also
increased
just
exponentially
really
in
just
over
a
year,
and
this
means
that
we
need
to
ramp
up
our
how
we
are
going
to
address
the
infrastructure,
demands
and
needs
that
exist
for
electric
vehicle
charging
stations
next
slide,
so
just
to
come
a
few
common
definitions
that
you
will
be
referencing
and
using
throughout
the
report
versus
evse,
which
is
electric
vehicle
Supply
equipment,
that's
a
little
bit
broader
than
simply
the
charging
stations
itself.
It
has
to
do
with
the
broader
sense
of
the
infrastructure.
E
We
also
then
talk
about
electric
vehicle
being
capable
ready
or
installed
with
different
kind
of
Standards.
If
it's
EV
ready
that
I'm
assuming
EV
capable,
then
obviously
the
capacity
and
conduit
is
already
in
place,
EV
ready,
then
there's
full
circuit
installation
and
then,
if
it's
installed.
Obviously
that
means
there's
a
parking
space
or
facility
that
is
fully
installed
with
all
the
electrical
panels
to
service
that
particular
parking
space.
E
Next,
please
and
I
think
this
is
one
of
the
keys
to
to
the
whole
issue
really
regarding
electric
vehicle
charging,
there
are
three
different
types
levels,
one
and
levels
two,
and,
as
you
can
see
from
this,
if
you
can
read
the
slide
level,
one
is
what
you
get
at
your
regular
outlet
at
home
and
a
lot
of
people
plug
in
at
home.
E
The
charging
time,
though,
is
only
about
increasing
the
range
two
to
five
miles
for
every
one
hour
of
your
charging,
a
level
two
is
using
220
volts
and
that
which
you
use
like
for
your
your
washer
dryer
and
other
Home
hardwired
equipment-
and
this
is
usually
at
a
public
station
and
you
can
get
10
to
20
miles
of
range
increase
for
every
hour
of
charging.
E
It
is
the
DC
fast
charger,
that's
the
the
largest,
often
as
big
as
like.
A
gasoline
pump
and
you'll
see
these,
as
only
usually
in
the
public,
and
the
charging
time
is
very
quick.
You
can
get
60
to
80
mile
range
increase
for
every
20
minutes
of
a
charge.
This
is
what
you
often
see
now
with
Tesla,
where
Tesla
has
installed
a
lot
of
DC
chargers
at
various
State
various
places.
E
We
are
also
asked
to
look
at
the
health
and
safety
issues.
There's
some.
There
was
some
concern
whether
or
not
there
are
dangerous
by
having
these
particularly
the
level
threes.
The
DC
fast
Chargers,
but
scientific
research
really
does
not
bear
this
out.
There's
no
legitimate
public
research.
That's
actually
shown
to
be
caused
by
the
electric
vehicle,
Supply
equipment
and
even
nits
of
the
national
traffic
safety
administration
said
the
propensity
for
severity
and
severity
of
the
fires
and
explosions
really
are
compatible
comparable
to
gasoline
and
Diesel
vehicular
fuels.
E
Next,
please
So,
currently
in
the
county,
evscs
are
used
both
in
public
and
private
use.
They
can
be
found
in
public
rights,
away
if
they're
approved
by
Pai
through
a
franchise
agreement
and
you're,
not
obstructing
the
the
right-of-way
itself,
there's
also,
they
also
are
treated
as
accessory
uses.
Now,
if
someone
applies
and
wants
to
install
a
charging
station
at,
for
instance,
a
a
new
Walmart
or
someplace,
they
can
get
that
as
an
accessory
use
and
then
lastly,
they're
not
considered
to
be
the
same
as
a
fuel
service
station.
E
There
was
a
recent
case,
development
on
York
Road,
and
this
is
part
of
the
discussions
whether
or
not
should
be
treated
as
a
fuel
service
station.
The
county
does
not
do
so
right
now,
I'd
like
now
to
turn
this
over
to
Ms
Nash
who's
going
to
go
through
see
some
of
the
key
recommendations
that
we
have
and
then
we'll
turn
it
back
over
to
you,
madam
chair.
F
Steve
good
afternoon,
Sally
Nash
permits
approvals
and
inspections
I'm,
going
to
briefly
touch
on
the
key
recommendations
in
our
report,
we'll
be
going
into
more
detail
at
the
public
hearing,
so
I
don't
want
you
to
have
to
listen
to
me
twice,
but
to
start
off
with
our.
Our
main
key
recommendation
is
that
if
we
are
going
to
regulate
EV
charging
stations,
let's
make
it
clear
about
where
they're,
where
they
go
and
tie
that
to
land
use
next
slide.
F
If
we're
going
to
be
more
restrictive
in
terms
of
where
they
go,
I
think
it
would
be
appropriate
to
focus
on
those
no
other
jurisdiction
that
we
could
find
currently
does
differentiate
these
types
of
chargers,
but
I
wouldn't
be
surprised
to
see
similar
regulations
coming
out
soon
we'll
go
into
more
detail,
but
we're
basically
proposing
tying
it
to
certain
zoning
districts
next
slide.
F
We
would
also
like
to
make
the
process
a
little
bit
easier,
both
for
putting
EV
charging
stations
into
public
spaces
for
public
use
and
also
for
people
who
want
to
use
County
right
of
way.
The
franchise
agreement
is
a
very
cumbersome
process.
It's
not
really
designed
for
EV
charging
stations,
it's
designed
more
for
utilities,
but
it's
it
was
the
best
mechanism
we
had.
We
think
we
could
probably
simplify
that
and
make
it
easier
next
slide.
F
The
next
recommendation
has
to
do
with
site
design
considerations
and
considering
the
whole
context
of
where
the
EV
charging
stations
are
going
to
go,
especially
considering
things
like
signage.
We
don't
want,
you
know
to
junk
up
sites
with
additional
advertising,
or
things
like
that.
So
we
want
to
make
sure
we
consider
the
whole
site
context
when
we're
regulating
charging
stations
next
slide.
F
So
we're
making
sure
that
all
the
home
builders
are
aware
of
that,
because,
as
of
October,
1st
they'll
need
to
make
sure
that
that's
included
in
their
in
their
buildings
next
slide
and
we're
extending
this
idea
to
think
about.
What
would
we
want
to
see
in
multi-family
developments?
Would
we
want
to
require
a
certain
percentage
of
those
parking
spaces?
Are
either
evsc
or
EV
ready,
capable?
F
You
know
at
some
level
at
some
percentage,
we're
kind
of
moving
into
a
new
era
where
we're
actually
going
to
be
requiring
these
people
next
slide,
and
we
want
to
make
sure
we
don't
forget
the
importance
of
considering
Ada
when
we're
planning
these
things
a
lot
of
times.
We
get
a
lot
of
questions
about
things,
just
like
chords
going
across
sidewalk.
Can
the
cord
go
across
the
sidewalk?
Well,
no,
we
don't
want
cords
going
across
sidewalks
we
want
cords
being
trenched
under
the
sidewalk
is
what
we
require
now.
F
Let
me
make
that
clear
that
that
is
a
consideration
both
for
Ada
accessibility
around
the
EV
charger,
and
they
also
have
parking
spaces
that
have
Ada
accessible,
EV
Chargers.
So
anyone
can
drive
a
car,
that's
an
EV
car.
Anyone
can,
you
know,
find
a
place
to
charge
their
vehicle
next
slide,
so
I
want
to
thank
planning
for
their
contribution
and
oga
Seth
did
a
great
job
as
well
as
office
of
sustainability,
for
helping
put
together
our
report
and
this
presentation,
and
we
will
be
back
next
month.
Thank
you.
G
So
when
you
mentioned
that
it's
potentially
well
tier
one
and
tier
two
are
accessory
and
then
tier
three,
it
could
be
potentially
like
a
zoning
into
zoning.
Are
you
talking
about
like
adding
it
to
certain
overlays,
or
are
you
talking
about
like
adding
a
specific
link
to
BL
or
BM
or
whatever.
F
F
Do
we
know
I
think
it
is
through?
Is
it
30?
No,
it's
less
than
30
percent
I,
don't
know
what
it
is
at
this
exact
three
Steve
thinks
three
I
I.
Think
that
might
be
is
that
in
our
report
I
know
I've
seen
that
number,
but
that
could
be
a
number.
F
F
Right,
you're,
you're,
absolutely
right:
the
infrastructure
isn't
there
today.
You
know
we
need
to
keep
building
it
out
and
by
requiring
EV
ready
and
EV
capable
spaces.
You
know
that's
working
to
improve
and
Implement
more
infrastructure,
so
gradually
it
can
be
expended
to
the
rural
area,
not.
F
Could
be
it's
just
like
wireless
wireless
Broadband,
you
know
it
didn't
get
deployed.
A
I
One
and
two
I
understand
the
three
you're
talking
about
making
it
involved
with
zoning
in
various
levels.
What,
if
a
person
with
a
residential
single-family
home,
wants
to
put
the
level
three
in
there?
Is
that
something
they're
going
to
have
to
comply
with?
You
know
residential
zoning
and
come
in
and
get
a
permit
or
have
to
pay
for
a
permit
pay
for
the
an
annual
fee.
Do
we
have
any
thoughts
on
that?
Whether
you
are
going
to
expect
to
collect
a
fee
like
yearly.
F
Those
I
mean
that's
a
good
question.
We
can.
We
can
get
back
together
as
a
group
and
think
about
that
before
the
public
hearing.
My
thought
is,
you
could
make
it
something
like
a
special
exception
where
you
have
to
go
to
the
alj
to
get
approval,
but
maybe
that's
too
restrictive.
Maybe
we
don't
want
to
be
that
restrictive.
This
is
your
report
to
make
to
County
Council.
You
know
you
you
don't
you
can
ignore
that
idea
and
say
everyone
should
have
to
have
a
level
three
charger
at
their
house.
You.
I
Know
what
I
mean
you
don't
want
the
level
three
that
can
afford
it?
You
have
to
bring
that
much
more
power
into
your
house.
You
have
to
pay
BGE
to
bring
it
in
at.
I
F
We
Noodle
around
the
idea
of
having
it
where,
after
five
or
something
like
that,
you
have
to
get
a
special
exception.
Where
there's
some
cut
off,
because
the
concern
was,
you
have
Royal
Farms,
it
has
12
level
three
charging
stations.
We're
in
Pai
is
treated
like
a
gas
station,
but
is
is
the
impact
in
terms
of
people
coming
in
and
out
of
that
site,
essentially
the
same
as
the
impact
of
a
gas
station.
In
which
case
do
we
want
to
regulate
that
in
some
way?
Maybe
we
don't?
F
Maybe
we
do,
but
that
was
the
impetus
for
the
concern
and
the
question,
but
we
we
never
found
another
jurisdiction
that
had
a
number
or
10.
If
you're
gonna
have
more
than
10
of
these,
then
it
then
you
have
to
do
X,
Y
and
Z
there's
most
jurisdictions.
Don't
it's.
I
I
J
F
If
there
are
publicly
available
right
now,
they
are
allowed
in
they're,
they
are
around
in
public
Baltimore,
County,
public
facilities,
the
library,
senior
centers,
etc.
Those
are
not
currently
managed
by
the
revenue
Authority.
J
Know
that
the
CE
is
I
mean
I'm
like
I'm
thinking
about
you
know,
we
came
up
with
this
10
solar
facility
per
District
plan,
even
though
district
one
doesn't
have
enough
room
to
put
10
solar
facilities.
But
you
know
that's
that's
what
I'm
wondering
is
there
a
quantity?
There's
your
goal
to
put
throughout
the
district,
sir.
B
Know
they
consider
equity
in
future
Grant
funded
opportunities
for
EV
charging
stations,
so
the
funding
is
tied
to
social
measures.
We
don't
have
a
really
scientific
analysis
of
where
we're
working
on
a
demand
model
where
the
prime
stations
where
the
service
need
would
be
at
this
point,
BGE
is
just
selected
tried
to
spread
throughout
the
geographic
territory
as
much
as
possible.
We're
going
to
work
on
getting
a
little
more
scientific
with
that,
and
the
equity
is
tied
to
financing
around
grants
that
we're
attaining
as
well.
So
that's
two.
A
K
Question
slash
comment:
a
number
of
my
clients
are
starting
to
think
about
this,
especially
in
small
strip
centers.
They
have
restaurants.
F
And
they
can
regulate
that
as
the
shopping
center
owners.
It
is
actually
you
weren't
supposed
to
leave
your
car
parked
there.
If
you're
done
charging.
F
K
The
other
thing
that,
because
of
the
restriction
on
parking,
is
there
a
thought
that
I
would
ask
that
we
think
about?
Maybe
you
know
changing
some
of
the
restrictions
on
on
parking
to
allow
for
this
issue
of
People
parking
for
two
hours
or
whatever.
That
time
frame
is
that
people
would
be
parking,
so
I
guess
utilizing.
B
K
Public
space
is
one
way
to
to
try
to
mitigate
some
of
that,
but
if
you
have
to
take
so
many
handicapped
parking
spots
and
some
of
them
have
to
be
available
for
for
electronic
charging,
the
impact
I
just
don't
think
that.
F
I
mean
we
do
as
far
as
zoning
concerns.
It
counts
that
spot
as
a
parking
spot,
so
you
aren't
penalized
for
providing
an
EV
charging.
You
don't
that
you
don't
have
to
subtract
that
from
your
total
parking
count,
zoning
doesn't
necessarily
look
at
utilization
of
the
parking
lot
or
we
probably
have
a
lower
parking
requirement.
But
zoning
does
just
say:
okay,
your
restaurant
has
50
seats.
You
have
to
provide
this
many
spaces,
so
it
wouldn't
really
be
taking
that
into
consideration.
F
F
Think
you
can
yes,
I,
think,
there's
a
lot
of
different
options
for
how
you
charge
people,
how
the
timing
of
of
that
kind
of
thing-
and
you
know
who
has
access
to
the
electricity.
I
Mr
Perlo
I,
guess
I'm
concerned
with
BG
e.
We
all
deal
with
them
with
Public
Service.
They
can
raise
their
rates
pretty
much
anytime.
They
want,
they
seem
to
get
what
they
want.
I'd
like
to
know
that
the
county
really
has
focused
on
what
the
costs
are.
We
are
always
concerned
about
the
price
of
gas
going
up
and
down
all
of
a
sudden.
The
prices
of
this
get
this
electric
that
we
need
to
run.
E
E
We'll
be
back
for
the
public
hearing
and
get
a
little
more
details
to
you
and
also
then,
if
you
have
any
further
questions,
we
can
pick
them
up
there,
but
also
just
want
to
remind
the
board.
This
is
a
recommended
report
to
you
that
you,
then
in
turn
will
recommend
or
send
to
the
County
Council.
So
if
this
report
does
not
meet
the
goals
that
you
see
is
important,
this
is
up
to
the
planning
board
than
to
work
with
the
staff
and
come
back
then,
with
a
report.
That's
really
more.
A
H
E
H
A
A
M
A
N
Yes,
I
I
work
at
the
department
in
public
works
in
the
sewer
design,
section
and
I'm
going
to
be
introducing
the
water
supply
and
sewage
plan,
2023
triannual
review
of
the
planning
board
to
the
planning
board
to
try
and
fine.
Thank
you.
The
triangle
review
is
a
comprehensive
master
plan
document
that
is
updated
every
three
years,
as
required
by
the
Maryland
environmental
code.
N
Section
9-503,
the
triennial
review
of
The
Water
and
Sewer
plan
must
be
consistent
with
approved
land
use,
master
master
master
plan
and
demonstrate
adequate
water
supply
and
sewage
throughout
the
county.
The
triennial
review
examines
the
current
flow
data.
The
current
the
current
and
future
Water
and
Sewer
needs
based
on
population
projections
to
to
2050
provided
by
the
department
of
planning
the
Baltimore
County
Department
of
planning
per
requests
of
the
planning
board.
I
will
present
a
more
detailed
information
regarding
the
2023
trianium
review
at
the
public
hearing
scheduled
for
our
October
5th.
A
D
D
A
A
Nine
guidelines,
the
public
hearing,
is
now
called
the
order.
I'm
Nancy
Hafford
the
chair
of
the
Baltimore
County
planning
board,
and
we
will
now
start
with
the
roll
call
of
our
board
members
that
are
present.
When
you
hear
your
name,
please
say:
aye
Mr
array,
Miss
Brophy,
aye,
Mr,
German,
I,
Mr,
Hafer,
aye,
Mr,
Heckman,
all
right,
Mr
heinel's,
not
here,
Mr
Hinton,
hi,
Mr,
halipka,
aye,
Mr,
Johnson,
Mr,
McGinnis,
aye,
Mr,
Perlo,
aye,
Ms
Panera's,
not
here,
Mr,
Warren,
aye,
Miss,
Wolfson
aye.
Thank
you
all.
A
At
the
September
7
2023
meeting
of
the
planning
board.
Mr
David
birkenthal
of
the
Department
of
planning,
introduced
the
greater
Middle
River
design
guidelines
to
the
board
tonight.
Mr
birkenthal
is
here
to
further
present
the
guidelines
to
the
board.
Following
his
presentation
board,
members
will
have
a
chance
to
ask
questions,
and
then
members
of
the
public
will
have
an
opportunity
to
speak
on
the
matter
immediately
after
the
public
hearing,
the
poured
will
reconvene
for
discussions
and
a
vote
on
the
matter.
Please
join
me
in
welcoming
Mr
birkenthal.
O
Hello
again,
Madam
chair,
my
name
is
David
bergenthal
and
I'm.
The
Eastern
sector
lead
planner,
with
our
community
planning
division,
I'm
going
to
go
present
I'm
going
to
be
presenting
an
overview
of
the
greater
Middle
River
design
guidelines.
This
presented
presentation
will
be
similar
to
our
last
meeting
and
after
I
finish
up
my
presentation.
I'll
turn
it
over
to
Cecily
Bedwell
from
design
Collective
to
provide
testimony
and
answer
any
of
your
questions.
O
So
let's
do
a
quick
overview.
First,
these
are
new
design
guidelines
and
you
can
see
the
boundary
of
the
gmr
area
here
on
the
right.
They
will
be
incorporated
into
the
comprehensive
manual
development
policies
or
cmdp,
which
is
used
by
the
county
to
help
steer
commercial
and
residential
development
within
the
goals
of
the
master
plan.
Council
resolution
223,
passed
by
Council
on
February
21st
2023,
authorized
creation
of
the
new
guidelines
and
allowed
Essex
Middle
River
Civic
Council
emrcc
to
lead
this
new
effort.
Let
me
go
to
the
next
slide.
O
Thank
you,
darling.
All
right,
so
I
want
to
go
over
a
timeline
and
process
behind
the
proposed
guidelines.
Emrcc
met
with
Community
organizations
and
similar
groups
of
stakeholders
over
the
last
few
years,
they've
been
informing
folks
of
what
design
guidelines
are
and
why
they
might
be
a
good
idea
for
Middle
River
emrcc
then
work
with
design
Collective
to
prepare
the
initial
drafts
of
the
design
guidelines,
these
same
Community
organizations
and
reviewed
the
initial
draft
of
the
guidelines.
The
draft
was
then
reviewed
by
planning
last
December,
then
in
January
planning
met
with
emrcc
and
design
Collective.
O
O
Okay,
then,
in
April,
the
department
of
planning
received
a
new
draft
of
the
guidelines
that
had
been
updated,
based
on
the
conversations
with
planning
staff
in
January
over
the
summer,
Department
of
planning
staff
conducted
a
more
in-depth
review
of
the
proposed
guidelines
and
in
early
August
sent
emrcc
a
detailed
letter
with
requested
changes.
Emrcc
returned
an
update
draft
in
late
August,
along
with
two
explanatory
letters.
This
draft
and
these
two
letters
are
what
was
shared
with
each
of
you
prior
to
the
September
7th
planning
board
meeting,
during
which
today's
public
hearing
was
scheduled.
P
As
David
mentioned,
we
were
brought
on
by
the
Eastern
sorry,
the
Essex
Middle
River
Civic
Council,
to
work
on
their
behalf
to
put
together
design
guidelines.
This
was
after
some
of
our
work
at
Greenlee
and
other
sites
within
Baltimore,
County
and
the
level
of
execution
they
saw
there
and
wanted
to
see
maintained
for
future
developments
and
other
major
Renovations
within
their
Community
to
maintain
a
level
of
characters.
P
Reviewing
the
guideline
drafts,
giving
input
having
us
revise
them
and
then
putting
them
together
to
the
drafts
that
we
presented
in
I
guess
it
was
fed
January
of
this
year
and
move
forward
with
the
process.
So
I
want
to
go
over.
Just
a
brief
outline
I
might
highlight
just
a
few
I
know:
you've,
probably
all
seen
this
and
gone
through
the
guidelines.
P
I
just
want
to
highlight
a
few
of
the
important
criteria
that
may
address
some
of
the
questions
that
we've
heard
and
also
you
know
to
try
to
answer
in
advance
some
of
the
questions
that
we've
had
given
to
us.
So
if
we
could
go
to
just
the
table
of
contents,
I
don't
know.
Are
you
driving
I'm?
Sorry,
yeah?
Okay,
thank
you!
P
Of
course,
the
first
part
is
just
the
introduction
the
background.
The
purpose
of
them
importantly
I'll
focus
in
on
one
key
criteria
for
the
purpose,
but
we
really
go
through
site
design.
What
we
would
typically
call
Urban
Design,
but
it
has
to
deal
with
you
know
the
overall
layout
of
the
site,
some
broad
General
recommendations
for
that
street
design.
P
Looking
at
how
new
streets
can
be
both
well-serving
of
vehicles,
but
also
not
neglecting
pedestrians
and
cyclists,
really
just
good
principles
very
much
like
the
complete
streets
document,
but
keeping
in
that
same
vein,
with
a
little
bit
more
information
on
how
to
actually
execute
those
Street
design
standards,
architectural
design
that
gets
into
the
building
facades.
You
know
the
different
design
measures
massing
but
also
materials
and
how
those
materials
may
be
best
used
the
landscape
guidelines.
P
Similarly,
the
with
landscape
in
the
same
way
materials
as
well
as
how
to
best
use
those
and
then
signage
guidelines
for
any
entry,
monumentation
or
other
signage
that
may
accompany
a
project.
These
are
foremost
geared
towards
new
development
projects.
However,
the
community
did
want
to
see
that,
if
anybody's
making
major
renovations
to
their
home
that
they
also
try
to
follow
these
importantly,
these
are
guidelines
they're,
not
development
standards,
they're,
not
regulations,
they're.
What
the
community
would
like
to
see
everybody
reach,
you
know
the
bar
is
set.
P
They
would
like
people
to
reach
for
that
bar,
but
in
no
way
is
mandatory
as
development
standards,
or
you
know
any
type
of
Regulation
they're.
Really
the
community
saying
what
they
would
like
to
see
come
to
their
Community
okay.
So
if
we
could
go
to
the
purpose
section
and
I,
don't
know
if
we
can
zoom
in
on
the
first
paragraph
of
that,
no
the
next
yeah
there,
and
that
first
paragraph
would
be
great.
P
So
again,
these
are
really
geared
towards
new
construction.
If
somebody
is
renovating
more
than
50
percent
of
their
primary
structure,
meaning
their
house
versus
their
garage
or
some
other
you
know
accessory
building,
then
these
would
apply
if
they're
doing
renovations
more
than
50
percent
of
their
facade,
they
would
apply.
We
are
not
trying
to
unduly
burden
I.
Think
you
know.
One
of
the
examples
was
a
senior
homeowner.
Who
would
like
to
install
a
ramp
on
their
house?
P
These
would
not
apply
if
they,
if
somebody
would
like
to
retrofit
their
Windows,
install
new
windows
or
change
their
shutters.
These
would
not
apply
if,
for
some
reason,
I
mean
usually
fenestration
in
a
residential
structure
takes
about
about
20
percent
of
an
elevation.
P
P
The
other
thing
I'd
like
to
point
out
is
and
I
think
this
is
a
great
question.
You
know
what
are
the
impacts
to
affordability
on
on
units
that
would
be
developed
here.
Well,
you
know
for
Greenlee,
for
example,
that
was
even
a
higher
bar.
For
example,
we
require
Builders
to
put
in
a
masonry,
meaning
stone
or
brick
water
tables
at
the
foundation
line.
We
require
cementitious
siding,
there's,
not
a
a
wish.
M
P
Guideline
it's
a
requirement.
Those
things
do
drive
up
costs
of
the
home
and
you
know
Greenlee
has
Rossford.
Neil
will
speak
more
of
that,
but
you
know
there
is
a
cost
associated
with
those
increase
in
design.
However,
I
can
say
that
you
know
as
an
Architecture
Firm
and
me
personally,
I've
been
involved
in
affordable
housing,
design,
we've
designed
hope,
six
and
other
affordable
housing
projects
to
standards
very
similar
to
this.
P
In
that
case,
vinyl
siding
in
one
project
in
Akron
Ohio,
but
the
the
the
care
that
we
took
was
to
use
the
proper
detailing
of
that
vinyl
siding.
So
instead
of
you
know
having
at
the
bottom,
you
know
no
finish
to
that.
We
put
a
skirt
Board
of
a
of
a
nicer
material.
We
did
Corner
trim
so
things
that
actually
people
point
to
and
say
that's
a
beautiful
development.
Q
P
In
there
it's
like
well,
these
are
affordable
housing
units.
You
know,
if
you
meet
these
standards,
you
can
go
in
of
income,
but
I
guess
the
point
is
I've
I've
been
designing,
I've
been
with
design
Collective
Now
26
years,
I've
been
in
the
profession
27
years,
I've
written
and
had
to
design
by
as
well
as
administer
design
guidelines
for
all
different
levels
of
incomes
and
communities
across
the
country
and
I
would
say
that
these
do
not
necessarily
impact
the
affordability
of
the
units.
P
So
you
know-
and
we
wouldn't
want
to
impose
that
you
know
I-
think
what
we
would
like
to
see
is
new
development.
That's
geared
towards
you,
know:
middle
income
and
higher
incomes
that
they
reach
further
right.
G
P
P
Let's
see
I
think
there
were
a
couple
scenarios
and
I
think
I
addressed,
but
I'd
like
to
turn
it
over
I.
Think
I've
gone
through.
Most
of
those
I
will
just
say
that
Bob
provided
Bob
bendler
provided
a
list
of
the
meetings.
P
I
know
that
was
another
question
in
a
in
a
letter
to
the
planning
director
that
highlighted
when
those
meetings
occurred
who
attended
and
you
know,
and
the
what
the
outcome
or
the
focus
of
those
meetings
was
and
the
outcome
of
those,
but
with
that
I'll
turn
it
over
to
Neil
and
then
I'll
be
happy
to
answer
any
other
further
questions
that
you
might
have.
R
Most
days
we
come
to
work
and
we
go
home
at
night
and
say
that
was
a
tough
day,
we're
all
trying
to
do
good.
You
know
you're
here
trying
to
make
a
better
world
Steve's
here
trying
to
make
a
better
world,
and
you
know
often
we
fail
what
we're
doing
today
and
what
we're
here
to
talk
about,
and
let's
just
talk
about
what
it
is,
we're
making
a
better
world
we're,
making
a
better
community
big
words.
Let
me
back
up
and
do
it
from.
R
M
R
I'm,
not
a
merchant
Builder
I
build
for
multi-generational
ownership
of
my
own
and
my
families
and
I
don't
come
into
a
community
and
make
money
and
leave
the
community
I
stay
in
the
community.
I
become
a
good
corporate
citizen,
a
good
member
of
the
community
and
contribute
to
the
community
in
the
Middle
River
Community
right
now,
I'm
developing
A
Thousand
Acre
Community.
It's
about
nine
million
square
feet
at
completion.
R
We
have
about
six
and
a
half
million
square
feet
built
today
and
we've
changed
the
community
for
the
better,
a
couple
things
we
we
can
all
have
different
tastes,
but
I
think
we
can.
The
majority
of
us
can
agree
upon
what's
good
architecture
and
what's
good
development,
not
talking
about.
R
So
the
community
came
to
us
and
said
we
really
like
what
you're
doing
we.
You
know
the
the
price
of
the
homes
were
the
opposite
and
I'm
going
to
say
it
we're
the
opposite
of
affordable
housing,
we're
work,
the
prices
we're
getting
on
our
homes,
the
rents,
we're
getting
on
our
apartments
in
Middle
River.
You
can't
see
the
water,
you
can't
smell
the
water
or
you
know
stratospheric.
You
know,
Baltimore
County
has
three
main
growth
areas:
middle
River's
always
been
Eastern.
Baltimore
County
has
always
been
the
ugly
stepchild.
R
We
all
know
the
stories
and
we're
leading
in
Baltimore
County
with
the
development
we're
doing
right
now,
Community
came
to
us
and
said:
why
are
you
doing
so
well
and
why
can't
the
rest
of
the
community
do
the
same?
Why
can't
the
rest
of
the
community
benefit
from
what
you're
doing,
and
we
said
they
can
and
we
had
a
discussion
about
what
we're
doing
different
than
everybody
else
and,
like
I,
said
earlier,
what
we're
doing
different
than
everybody
else
is
we're
remaining
in
the
community.
We're
not
leaving
the
community.
R
A
A
R
12
million
square
foot
project
in
Anne,
Arundel
County,
and
we
had
a
national
Builder.
It's
building
all
the
homes.
In
one
section,
it
was
a
400
unit
section.
This
project
started
in
2005..
We
dictated
a
set
of
guidelines
like
this,
and
the
guidelines
we're
talking
about
tonight
are
what
we
did
at
Greenlee,
but
very
light.
The
guidelines
we
had
that
were
required
to
abide
by
with
Baltimore
County
are
significantly
more
stringent
than
this.
For
these
guidelines
we
started
with
the
Greenlee
guidelines,
watered
them
down,
and
so
we
call
them
Greenly
light.
R
We
did
that
because
of
the
stakeholders
weren't
willing
to
build
to
the
level
we
agreed
to
build
to
2005
National
Builder
400
units
section
of
this
12
million
square
foot
project.
We
demanded
what
we're
talking
about
tonight,
but
the
full
version,
not
the
light
version.
One
of
the
requirements
we
had
was
Hardy
cementitious,
citing
brand
name
of
Hardy,
but
any
brand.
R
They
negotiated
back
on
us
and
said
it's
too
expensive.
We
can't
afford
it,
so
we
required
it
running
all
the
main
roads,
but
not
internal.
So
when
you
drive
through
the
community
you're,
seeing
the
higher
building
materials
so
interior
to
the
community,
the
first
five
homes
they
built,
they
built
with
vinyl
siding,
but
all
the
homes
along
the
main
road
were
built
with
Hardie,
Siding
or
cementitious
signing
of
the
400
units.
Only
those
five
homes
had
vinyl
siding
because
all
the
homeowners
wanted
to
pay
the
upgrade
costs
for
it.
R
So
those
are
the
type
things
we're
talking
about,
so
the
people
who
would
be
against
doing
this
are
the
merchant
Builders,
the
home
builders,
don't
want
to
do
this
because
costs
our
full
package
is
about
twenty
thousand
dollars
more
per
home.
This
light
package
is
probably
five
to
ten
thousand
dollars
more
Builders.
Don't
want
to
do
it
besides,
ten
thousand
dollars
more
and
I
think
we
all
know
in
a
market
there's
a
ceiling
on
what
you
can
charge
for
a
home
or
for
a
product.
But
what
does
it
do?
R
A
a
merchant
Builder
to
save
twenty
dollars
will
and
end
up
costing
that
homeowner
thousands
and
thousands
of
dollars
of
Maintenance
and
repairs,
Ten
Years
Later
15
years
later,
so
the
homeowner,
given
the
choice
when
they
see
the
product
next
to
each
other,
chooses
the
nice
their
product,
which
is
why
we're
doing
so
well
in
Greenlee,
because
we
have
no
competition.
Okay,.
R
R
The
single
family
homes,
which
are
very
small
Lots
in
the
mid
eights
we
have
home
selling
for
that,
have
sold
for
over
a
million
dollars
the
town
homes
in
the
mid
sixes
we've
been
to
about
eight
hundred
thousand
dollars,
I
mean
big
numbers.
Oh.
K
Affordable
housing
in
Baltimore
County,
so
the
average
household
income
in
Baltimore
county
is
around
90
000
right
now,
so
you
can
afford
around
three
and
a
half
to
four
times
your
household
income.
They
can't
afford
the
houses
that
you're
building,
so
we
can't
have
that
be
20
of
a
community
that
that's
it's
honest:
it's
unattainable
for
the
majority
of
our
community.
So
to
do
this,
you
say
ten
thousand
five
thousand.
You
know
we're
already
at
and
Beyond
the
capacity
of
the
average
homeowner
to
be
able
to
buy
a
house
in
our
community.
K
R
I,
don't
need
to
take
it
under
consideration.
It's
absolutely
true.
What
you're
saying
Greenlee
is
not
for
everybody.
We
do
not
have
housing
for
all
demographic
ranges.
Middle
River
does.
What
Middle
River
wants
to
know
is
when
they're
building
you
know
the
gamut
of
housing
types
that
it's
done
with
good
architecture
and
good
quality
building
materials,
not
taste.
So,
yes,
you
know
at
the
bottom
of
the
price
scale.
It
would
just
be
a
little
nicer.
R
It
would
be
a
little
better
architecture,
it
would
cause
the
person
I
think
we
all
know
people,
don't
most
people
don't
properly
maintain
their
homes
because
it's
expensive.
So
if
we
give
somebody
a
maintenance,
free
exterior
and
it
costs
them
another
five
or
ten
thousand
dollars
which
they
can
put
into
their
mortgage,
maybe
if
they
can
afford
it
they're
going
to
save
multiple
times
at
in
maintenance
down
the
road.
And
then
this
is
yes.
Affordable
housing
is
a
major
problem
everywhere.
Today,
it's
a
poli.
The
only
solution
to
affordable
housing
is
political
in
nature.
R
C
A
lot
of
what
you're
talking
about
filth
sounds
like
it's
geared
towards
new
development,
and
so
my
question
is
how
much
within
the
area
that's
being
considered,
how
much
of
it
is
like
is
potentially
developable
versus
how
much
that
I
guess.
This
is
some
of
the
concerns
we
had
at
the
last
one.
How
much
of
this
is
being
it
almost
felt
like
sort
of
a
retroactive
HOA,
you
know
existing
homeowners
will
now
have
to
will
they
have
to
follow
or
what
will
the
guidelines
be?
C
How
any
of
this
be
enforced?
Like
I
said
it's
one
thing:
if
you're
a
development-
and
you
say
here's
what
we're
going
to
do-
that's
fine,
then
the
people
who
are
buying
into
your
project
are
going
to
buy
into
it.
It
sounds
like
you're
trying
to
apply
this
to
other
potential
developers.
Okay,
I
can
sort
of
see
that
and
I
guess.
The
concern
is
for
the
people
who've
already
bought
a
house
or
already
have
land.
Why
should
they
be
beholden
to
the
guidelines
that
you
set
for.
R
Well,
first
of
all,
I
just
want
to
be
clear.
I'm
here
at
the
request
of
the
community.
Everything
I'm
doing
is
at
the
requests
of
the
community
I'm,
not
the
leader
here,
I'm,
just
being
a
good
foot
soldier
and
a
good
member
of
the
community
I'm,
not
I
care
about
what
I
do
and
I'm
here
on
as
a
a
good
member
of
the
community.
But
to
answer
your
question:
no,
it's
it's
not
meant
to
really
apply
to
existing
homes.
P
To
what
I
was
saying,
I
mean
there
is
a
a
clause
in
the
guidelines,
that's
specifically
geared
towards
that,
so
it
wouldn't
impact
someone
who
is
doing
other
than
a
major
renovation
on
their
home.
It
wouldn't
impact
them.
We
would
hope
that
they
would
still,
you
know
want
to
do
you
know
good
by
the
community
what
the
community
has
unanimously.
You
know
asked
for
and
approved,
but
it's
not
a
requirement.
Nor
is
again,
these
are
only
guidelines.
P
There's
no
mandatory
nature
to
any
of
this,
so
I
understand
the
concerns,
but
you
know
if
if
there
is
an
affordable
housing
project
that
wants
to
be
built
and
says,
there's
no
way
we
can
do
cementitious.
It
even
says
you
know:
vinyl
siding
is
not
encouraged,
but
if
you
do
it,
please
detail
it
correctly.
That's
all
it
says
so.
I
think
some
of
the
ideas
of
the
affordability
are
a
little
misconstrued
in
terms
of
these
being
guidelines,
and
you
know
the
allowances
for
materials.
P
I
will
say
that
I
comb
through
the
guidelines
again
recently
and
the
only
other
thing
I
I
saw
in
there
that
would
cause.
You
know
again
talked
about
the
cementitious
versus
vinyl,
siding.
There's
you
can
do
Foundation,
that's
just
a
stamp
foundation,
concrete
foundation.
You
don't
have
to
do
masonry.
The
only
thing
that
I
saw
and
be
happy
to
to
change.
It
would
be
the
architectural
asphalt
shingles.
We
could
change
that
to
be
just
dimensional
shingles,
really,
that's
the
only
large
cost
implication.
Go
ahead.
Sorry.
S
A
S
Yeah
I
have
two
quick
questions:
I'm
a
little
confused,
maybe
I'm
the
only
one,
a
little
confused
on
the
area
that
the
guidelines
are
supposed
to
apply
to
I.
P
S
This
is
from
the
guidelines
because
it
looked
like
there
was
a
smaller
area
in
within
this
portion
that
it
specifically
applied
to
and
then
made
reference
that
it
would
could
possibly
apply
beyond
the.
P
S
R
This
area
really
comprises
the
Essex
Middle
River,
civic
association.
My
number
could
be
slightly
I
think
represents
24
Community
groups.
The
presidents
of
the
24
Community
groups
are
on
the
board
and
I
this
area,
I'm
pretty
sure,
encompasses
the
area
of
those
24
groups.
Are
there
other
groups
in
the
area?
I
I,
don't
know
the
answer
to
that.
I
I,
don't
know
why
anyone
wouldn't
be
part
of
the
Civic
Council,
but
this
was
presented
and
voted
on
unanimously
by
the
Civic
Council.
Okay,.
S
Thank
you.
My
next
question
is
you
say
very
clearly
tonight
that
it's
a
guideline
I'm,
not
sure
it
reads
so
clearly
in
the
document,
because
I
didn't
read
it
that
way
when
I
first
read
it
it,
and
you
gave
the
example
of
Toll
Brothers,
maybe
wanting
to
come
in
and
holding
them.
You
know
to
a
higher
standard
than
maybe
they
would
typically
want
to
do.
S
R
S
I
I
think
that's
what
leads
to
all
the
attorneys
getting
involved,
because
it's
not
clear
and
whether
it's
a
requirement
or
not,
and
then
we
say
that
it's
going
to
be
used
by
Baltimore
County
Planning
when
a
developer
comes
in
and
they're
going
to
look
at
the
guidelines
and
compare
what's
being
proposed
to
the
guidelines.
S
You
know:
that's
that's
just
natural
because
it's
part
of
you
know
the
documents.
But
if
somebody
says
I
don't
want
to
comply
with
the
guidelines,
you
know
I'm
I'm
building.
What
I
think
is
the
appropriate
for
the
demographic
I'm
building
to
there's
nothing
that
we
can
say
that
would
keep
them
from
doing
that.
If
it's
truly
a
guideline
and
I'm,
not
sure
it
really
reads
as
a
guideline
I.
R
I
think
the
community,
the
24
Community
groups,
don't,
but
that
that's
that's
a
political
question.
I
can't
answer
that.
That's
up
to
the
County
Council
one.
R
T
A
clarification
so,
according
to
the
report,
this
is
a
map
of
the
greater
Middle
River
area.
The
greater
Middle
River
design
guidelines
area
is
actually
much
smaller
than
that,
it's
smaller
than
that,
it's
still
large
but
smaller.
This
is
the
whole
Middle
River
area.
These
guidelines
are,
according
to
page
page.
Three
are
page,
two
second
column:
it's
a
area
bounded
by
Martin,
Boulevard,
Pulaski,
Highway,
Ebenezer,
Road
and
then
I
guess
up
along
the
railroad
tracks.
T
R
P
S
T
P
So
that's
just
sorry
to
be
confusing,
but
that's
just
an
area
referring
to
the
pass
plan.
So
if
you
look
at
the
past
plan
on
the
previous
page.
P
Is
the
same
area?
That's
at
that
Central
graphic
that
is
referring
to
a
previous
document.
We
were
just
indicating
we
can
change
that
if
that's
confusing
or
causing
confusion,
I
don't
want
it
to,
but
we
were
just
showing.
That
is
the
area
that's
represented
from
that
past
planning
project
we're
still
in
the
background
area.
P
M
P
U
P
U
P
U
U
You
have
said
that
you've
indicated
so
many
things
is
not
binding.
You
want
first
class
material
to
be
used
during
construction
right,
so
I'm
very
confused
right
now.
We
want
to
approve
it
confused.
P
Guidelines-
okay,
that's
a
great
question,
so
a
major
renovation
would
be.
If
you
were,
you
had
a
single
story
house
and
you
wanted
to
add
an
addition
that
was
more
than
half
the
current
footprint
of
your
house.
It
could
be.
You
know
there
have
been
cases
where
somebody
wants
to
raise
the
roof
and
add
a
second
story
to
their
home.
That
would
certainly
apply.
P
You
know
a
major
addition
for
an
in-law
suite
that
was,
you
know,
bedroom
kitchen
Etc.
It
would
have
to
be
fairly
large
more
than
50
percent
of
the
existing
primary
structure
footprint.
So
a
major
renovation,
not
just
upgrading.
P
You
know
a
porch
that
wouldn't
comply
that
wouldn't
be
required.
Adding
a
handicap
ramp
to
the
front
would
not
be
required,
so
that
would
be
the
type
of
renovation
that
would
be
required.
A
All
right,
Mr,
Right,
I,
know
I,
know
planning
board
members,
you
have
other
questions,
but
this
is
really
a
public
hearing
too
to
let
the
public
speak
and
then
we're
going
to
reconvene
afterwards
and
we
can
have
questions
or
comments
so
I'm
just
asking
for
the
people
that
have
signed
up
to
speak.
If
you
have
a
few
more
questions,
you
want
to
ask:
will
you
be
here
afterwards
when
we,
when
we
reconvene
so
if
any
of
the
board
members
have
any
questions,
they
can
ask
you?
Yes,.
A
V
V
According
to
the
National
Association
of
Home
National
Association
of
home
builders,
2022
estimates,
a
one
thousand
dollar
increase
in
the
median
price
of
a
home.
Nationwide
price
is
out
117
932
people.
The
estimate
of
the
income
level
needed
to
afford
the
median
house
in
the
state
of
Maryland
is
over
one
million
dollars
for.
V
A
M
Q
I,
usually
I'd
live
when
I
get
up
here,
but
I'm
gonna
read
a
lot
good
evening
for
those
of
you
who
don't
know
me,
my
name
is
Steve
Smith
and
I
am
with
Gaylord
Brooks
realty
company,
a
local
real
estate
development,
brokerage,
firm,
I've,
been
doing
development
work
in
the
county
for
the
past
40
years,
I'm
also
a
life
board.
Q
Several
in
the
Baltimore
County
chapter
board
I
have
serious
concerns
about
the
greater
Middle
River
design
guidelines
that
are
being
proposed
by
the
Essex
Middle
River
Civic
Council
I
have
a
project
that
could
be
impacted
by
these
guidelines.
My
first
concern
is
the
design
guidelines
will
discourage
creativity
and
innovation
in
future.
Developments
in
the
area
guidelines
closely
copy.
The
Greenlee
at
Crossroads
pattern
book
about
Greenlee
is
an
impressive
development.
The
principles
applied
there
do
not
translate
to
smaller
development
Parcels.
Q
Q
Maryland
vernacular
architecture,
I,
don't
even
know
what
that
means.
These
guidelines
constrain
design,
including
dictating
what
materials
are
allowed
to
be
used
on
the
homes,
the
color
of
shutters
window
screens
and
railings,
and
even
mandating
what
color
mulch
homeowners
are
allowed
to
use,
although
just
guidelines
at
this
point,
they
are
intended
to
be
enforced,
otherwise
they
have
no
meaning.
This
level
of
control
is
unnecessary.
Several
layers
of
Regulation
already
exist
through
ensure
quality
developments,
including
a
requirement
to
comply
with
Section
260
of
the
Sony
regs
and
the
comprehensive
manual
development
policies.
Q
Q
Of
regulatory
review,
the
design
guidelines
would
also
place
an
unburdened
and
undue
burden
on
existing
homes.
There
clearly
have
been
little
consideration
of
how
these
guidelines
would
impact
new
construction
and
rendering
should
cost
in
a
county
that
continues
to
price
prospective
buyers
out
of
the
market.
Many
houses
in
the
area.
Q
A
B
A
There
are
no
other
questions
from
the
our
planning
board.
We
will
conclude
the
public
hearing
and
then
we
will
immediately
reconvene
for
discussion
on
the
matter
and
then
have
a
vote.
May
I
have
a
motion
to
adjourn
the
public
hearing
motion
all
in
favor
all
right.
Thank
you
all
right,
then.
We'll
start
again
good
evening
again,
public
meeting
of
the
Baltimore
County
planning
board
is
now
reconvened
and
called
to
order
I'm
Nancy
half
for
the
chair
of
the
Baltimore
County
planning
board,
and
we
will
start
with
another
roll
call.
Mr
array.
A
A
Yeah,
thank
you,
Mr
Warren.
The
board
now
has
an
opportunity
to
discuss
and
then
vote
on
the
greater
Middle,
River
design
guidelines.
Mr
birkenthal
is
here
to
answer
any
questions
of
the
board
that
may
have
to
discuss
before
going
to
the
vote
and
all
the
other
speakers
are
here.
Also,
if
there's
any
other
questions,
so
are
there
any
questions
or
comments
right
now,
okay,
we'll
start
miss
Mr
Warren,
the.
K
K
It
increases
the
overall
cost
of
development
dramatically
and
these
guidelines
we
say
their
guidelines,
but
they're
used
as
weapons
to
prevent
development,
and,
that's
by
me
it's
more
of
a
comment
than
it
is
a
question
but
I've
seen
it
over
11
years
and
it
so
it's
not
simply
a
guideline.
It's
going
to
be
used
as
a
tool.
I
P
I
Way,
I
read
it
I
felt
like
it
is
doing
that
and
that's
a
concern
just
needed
that
clarification
from
you.
You
know,
I
have
some
major
problems
with
this.
I
do
feel
that
it
is
Overkill
deal
no
deference
to
you.
Greenly
is
unbelievable,
so
is
maple
long,
so
is
Arundel.
Mills
I
know
what
you've
done
and
it
has
brought
the
level
of
our
development
in
the
state
of
Maryland
to
a
higher
level
and
I'm.
Okay,
with
that,
if
you
can
afford
it,
there
is
so
much
our
county
has
become.
I
You
can
sit
back
down.
Sorry,
that
was
the
only
question
I
had
to
ask
you,
but
I
do
have
some
some
major
problems
with
this
overlay.
I
think
that
we're
going
to
find
that
Middle
River
is
going
to
do
it
and
I'm
not
100
sure
that
everybody
that
you
reference,
the
24
people
are
all
in
favor
we've
been
made
aware
that
there's
a
couple
that
aren't
in
favor
of
it
now
or
didn't
know
about
it.
I
I
am
concerned
about
affordable
housing.
Our
county
has
become
a
minority
County
over
the
last
10
years
or
so,
if
you
look
at
the
numbers
that
are
projected
out
in
census
and
other
things
at
that
point,
you
know
when
you
have
great
projects,
you
can
go
up
to
Harford
County
and
see
bully
Rock,
and
you
know
it's
a
wonderful
project
that
continues.
I
A
lot
of
it
is
the
religious
Jewish
community
in
that
development,
in
that
neighborhood
and
they'll
want
some
type
of
overlay
as
well,
and
you
look
at
you
know
wherever
you
want
to
pick
in
the
County,
it
could
be,
you
know
out
in
Reisterstown
it
can
be
in
Owings
Mills,
which
I
think
that
a
lot
of
the
projects
have
been
built
are
very,
very
nice.
Every
one
of
the
builders
that
you
know
that
build
here
in
the
county
have
to
go
through
the
planning
department.
I
I
I
You
know
you've
got
Martin,
the
state
airport
I
think
is
maybe
in
it
do
they
tell
them
that
when
they
need
to
redo
the
hangers
that
they
have
to
do
it
prettier.
You
know
at
that
point
you
know,
but
you
say
that
you
shake
your
head.
No,
but
we
don't
know
that.
Okay,
it's
it's
a
concern
that
this
becomes
the
edict
and
maybe
gets
enforced
by
the
planning
department
when
it's
not
what
maybe
the
people
really
want
in
the
county,
your
community
associations,
you
know,
there's
leadership
there.
I
I
It
took
my
wife
three
years
to
make
everybody
happy
for
what
they
wanted
in
that
development,
which
has
a
very
strict
Covenant
on
it,
I'm,
not
sure
that
the
covenants
shouldn't
be
left
to
the
actual
Community
neighborhoods
rather
than
to
this
large
group,
because
I
am
concerned
that
it
is
going
to
be
spread
over
the
county.
At
that
point,
the
landscape,
you
know
to
tell
somebody
that
you
like
them
to
plant
yellow
flowers
instead
of
blue
flowers.
I.
I
Don't
really
think
that
that's
you
know
the
neighborhood
association's
decision
to
make
you
know
coming
to
signage.
You
talked
about
signage,
so
that's
where
I
got
the
commercial
feel
on
this
at
all,
I
understand
it's
entrance
sign
as
it
says,
but
it's
entering
signage
to
you
know
a
shopping
center
or
something
at
that
point.
We
did
have
this
discussion,
maybe
in
the
last
year
about
Liberty
Road
and
they
wanted
us
to
build
big
brick
walls,
okay,
all
up
and
down
Liberty
Road
to
block
the
shopping
center.
I
So
you
had
to
come
in
and
that's
not
what
I
think
the
community
wants.
I
think
people
want
to
know
that
there
is
a
an
Audis
in
that
development
or
something
at
that
point.
So
these
are
the
concerns
that
we
deal
with
here
on
the
planning
board.
We
don't
make
the
final
decision.
We
know
that
we
understand
we're
here
to
discuss
it
and
try
to
give
our
suggestions
to
the
council,
but
this
is
truly
something
that
I
understand.
A
huge
amount
of
time
went
into
this
okay.
Getting
design.
I
Collective
I
have
great
respect
for
your
work.
You
know,
especially
in
the
city
I,
see
you
all
the
time.
I
know
what
you
do.
I
know
you're.
You
know
your
partners
and
all
I
understand
the
neighborhood
leadership
would
like
to
see
this,
but
I'm
not
sure
that
everybody
that's.
There
is
going
to
be
able
to
afford
to
renovate
their
houses
in
20
years.
The
way
that
these
design
standards
are
going
to
require
it's.
S
Just
a
couple
of
comments,
I
already
expressed
my
concern,
you
you
kept
calling
them
requirements
and
they're
as
I
understand
them.
They're,
not
requirements.
S
Two
I
totally
disagree
with
the
suggestion
that
nice
design
and
nice
neighborhoods
or
the
purview
of
wealthy
people
and
I,
and
what
some
of
the
comments
are
making
it
sound
like
you
know,
we
don't
want
these
guidelines
that
people
have
expressed
that
they
like,
because
you
know
only
rich
people
can
afford
to
build
a
house
there.
S
Or
you
know
the
a
lot
of
the
90
of
the
guidelines
are
not
about
the
materials
of
the
houses
and
and
not
about
you,
know
the
color
of
the
you
know
daffodils
you'd
plant,
it's
it's
about
good,
traditional
neighborhood
design,
planning
and
that
could
be
for
rich
people
and
it
could
be,
for
you
know,
people
who
are
not
so
wealthy
and
so
I
just
want
to
make
that
comment,
because
a
lot
of
the
comments
are
suggesting
that
you
know
that's
going
to
make
the
entire
County
now
unaffordable
and
I.
C
C
It's
or
is
there
would
there
be
some
problem
with
applying
these
guidelines
to
the
entire
County,
because
I
think
the
concern
with
some
of
us
is
that
in
some
way
shape
or
form
it'll
become
the
guideline.
You
know,
as
I
said,
other
communities
will
want
it
either
they'll
do
this
or
they'll
change
it.
Would
the
county
be
better
off
if
the
entire
County
had
to
follow
these
guidelines?.
P
So,
thank
you
for
the
debating
conversation.
You
know
I
I,
won't
answer.
You
know
the
question
that
you
put
on
the
table.
Would
the
county
be
better
off
with
it?
I
know
this
community
would
like
it
I
I,
don't
see
it
as
a
burden.
I
see
it
as
a
community
saying
this
is
what
we
would
like
to
see.
They.
They
want
to
have
an
expectation
that
their
Community
is
well
received
and
and
is
well
cared
for.
P
I,
don't
see
that
as
a
negative
I,
don't
see
it
as
unduly
burdening
low-income
people
I
personally
would
never
as
a
design
professional
implement
or
be
part
of
implementing
anything
that
would
just
to
state
that
very
clearly,
we've
designed
I
know
Mr
Heckman
and
his
firm
have
as
well
affordable
housing
that
has
to
apply
higher
standards
than
some
of
the
mid-level
income
homes
that
people
buy
peop.
You
know,
but
would
the
county
be
better
off
with
good
design?
P
P
Say
that
we
are
not
trying
to
impact
the
affordability
of
of
homes
within
Baltimore
County,
would
it
be
great
if
you
know
if
people
had
expectations
of
good
construction,
good
material
use,
good
design,
I.
C
P
P
Sure
so,
I
think
what
comes
to
my
mind
just
on
you
know,
answering
that
question
off.
The
cuff
is
a
small
house
that
is
garage,
prominent
meaning.
The
garage
is
pulled
forward
of
the
house
as
vinyl
siding
is
using
Trim
in
bizarre
ways
and
applying
shutters
haphazardly
and
has
no
just
to
answer
the
question.
All
that
Maryland
vernacular
architecture
means
is
architecture
that
responds
to
the
environment
in
Maryland,
meaning
it
has
pitched
roofs
that
are
appropriate
for
our
climate.
That
has
overhangs
that
are
appropriate
for
our
climate.
P
That
has,
you
know
Harkens
back
to
how
we
used
to
build
things,
because
we
used
to
build
things
that
responded
to
climate.
That's
all
that
means
so
I'm.
Sorry,
someone
doesn't
know
the
meaning
of
that,
but
it's
really
critical
that
we
all
kind
of
think
about
where
we
are
on
this
planet
and
where
you
know
how
we
respond
to
the
climate.
That's
here
in
Maryland,
that's
all
that
means.
So
you
know-
and
that
is
what
the
guidelines
are,
are
trying
to
point
to.
Thank.
R
I
think
yes,
a
really
important
question
and
we're
here,
because
one
community
Through
representative
government,
so
are
there
homeowners
and
communities
that
may
not
support
this
I'm
sure,
but
your
representative
government,
the
24,
homeowners
or
groups,
did
unanimously
consent
to
this
and
they're
requesting
this
for
their
community.
If
it's
successful
and
if
it's
good
whatever
that
means,
yes,
it
will
spread
and
if
it
spreads
it
means
it's
making
something
better.
If
it,
you
know,
for
lack
of
a
better
word
quote:
unquote
is
bad,
not
good,
it
won't
spread.
T
First
I'd
like
to
thank
the
speakers
for
coming
out
and
providing
their
presentation.
It's
interesting
to
me.
You've
used
the
word
Community
Support
many
many
times
during
the
presentation,
yet
you
all
are
basically
Hired
Guns
Who
and
the
Community
Association
seem
to
have
left
it
to
you.
So
I
think.
That's
just
interesting
to
point
out
also
for
the
record.
Community
associations
are
not
part
of
the
elected
government
in
Baltimore.
County
Community
associations
are
Community
associations.
T
In
Council
resolution
2-23,
the
council
charged
the
planning
board
with
a
critically
important
function,
as
it
relates
to
these
guidelines,
subjecting
the
guidelines
to
Board
review
and
to
quote
to
such
further
modifications
as
deemed
advisable
and
eventual
adoption
by
the
planning
board.
So
where
do
things
currently
stand?
T
We've
been
provided
with
what
is
represented
as
simply
design
guidelines
that
will
lead
to
better
quality
housing
stock
in
an
extremely
large
geographic
area.
These
design
guidelines,
however,
do
not
appear
to
be
about
quality.
Instead,
they
focus
on
appearance,
Aesthetics,
uniformity
and
conformity.
T
T
In
addition,
no
information
has
been
provided
to
the
board
concerning
enforcement
or
the
due
process
rights
of
County
residents.
That
will
be
impacted
by
this
new
policy.
So
where
does
that
leave
us?
Is
this
good
or
bad
public
policy?
I
don't
know?
Will
it
meet
its
goals?
I,
don't
know
what
even
are
the
goals?
Are
they
simply
HOA
standards
or
class-based
redlining
I,
don't
know
at
what
cost,
how
many
people
will
be
impacted?
Has
this
been
a
transparent
development
process
for
the
very
first
time
in
Baltimore,
County
history?
T
Let
me
reiterate,
for
the
very
first
time
in
Baltimore,
County
History,
through
an
administrative
process,
a
Community
Association
is
proposing
a
policy
that
impacts
Baltimore
County
residents
in
what
I
originally
thought
were
over
3
000
current
owner
occupied
units,
but
according
to
the
to
the
map
that
we
were
appointed
to
today,
that's
actually
11
000,
current
owner-occupied
housing
units
that
this
would
apply
to,
and
it
deprives
these
owner-occupied
residents
of
the
basic
Freedom
that
they're
that
they
currently
possess.
T
Specifically
current
homeowners
and
landowners
would
be
deprived
of
their
right
to
lawfully
do
with
their
property
what
they
want.
Whenever
anyone
proposes
a
policy
that
threatens
to
deprive
an
individual,
in
this
case,
an
entire
class
of
individuals
of
any
of
their
rights.
We
need
to
take
that
very
seriously.
We
need
to
be
fully
informed.
We
must
be
extremely
cautious
and
we
have
to
be
extremely
diligent.
A
L
I
think
you
know
everyone
had
very
interesting
and
good
comments
when
it
comes
to
affordable
homes.
I.
Don't
necessarily
think
it's
at
this
point
in
Baltimore
County
that
it's
a
minority
majority
problem
I
mean
most
people
just
can't
afford
a
new
construction
home,
regardless
of
what
they
look
like
unless
they
have
some
sort
of
generational
wealth
and
tons
of
Equity
somewhere.
L
A
U
I
think
where's
Miss
deep.
This
deal.
U
U
Right,
yes,
yes,
so
did
you
did
you
think
of
maybe
providing
copies
of
those
approved
guidelines
to
these
Community
groups
for
their
review?
Because
what
I
see
here
is
that
yeah,
multiple
groups
still
represented
the
Maryland.
U
For
me,
I
don't
know
about
anyone
else.
Maybe
we
could.
You
know
request
that
they
come
here
to
talk
about
the
conversation
with
us.
Instead
of
just
you
know
approving
this,
because
you
approve
this
even
though
you're
going
to
guideline
I
agree
with
everyone
here
you
need
to
reinforced.
So
you
know
someone
else
so.
K
I
just
want
to
clarify
what
we're
talking
about
the
word.
Poor's
been
used,
something
that
makes
ninety
thousand
dollars
a
year
is
not
poor.
That's
not
a
poor
person.
Poor
person
in
our
community
makes
36
000
a
year.
We're
saying
that
a
person
that
makes
ninety
thousand
dollars
a
year
can't
afford
a
house
think
we
can't
lose
focus
of
that.
I
think
that
needs
to
be
part
of
every
conversation
that
we
have
and
I
think
you're
right.
It's
not
a
black
white
thing.
This
isn't
a
poor
Rich
thing.
K
This
is
just
plain:
affordability.
Affordability
is
not
a
bad
home
or
a
bad
Community.
Affordability
is
if
I
go
to
work
every
day,
work,
40
or
60
hours.
I
should
have
the
ability
in
the
United
States
to
buy
a
house
in
the
community
that
I
lived
in
I
drive
to
Pennsylvania
I
drive
to
West
Virginia
should
be
able
to
live
and
work
in
the
community
that
I
choose
to,
and
that's
I
think
important
to
be
said.
Thank.
J
Concerned
that
you
know
you
you've
built
this
Greenly,
that
is
for
median
to
above
average
incomes.
So
is
that
correct
and
and
then
then
we
have
now
we
have
guidelines
the
complement,
your
investment,
so
I
just
see
a
disconnect
there.
You
know
that
now
this
your
design
is
going
to
be
imposed
on
all
the
other
residents
in
this
community
and.
J
Why
didn't
you
include
affordable
housing
in
your
design?
I
can
tell
you
that
in
Randallstown
and
District,
three
four,
we
have
plenty
of
affordable
housing.
We
have
enough
and
by
not
designing,
affordable
housing
into
your
community.
You've
increased
the
pressure
on
the
other
communities,
so
I,
don't
just
don't
see
that
it's.
It
addresses
Baltimore,
County's
commitment
to
equity.
A
T
See
it
moved
that
the
Baltimore
County
planning
board
remands
the
greater
Middle
River
design
guidelines,
as
presented
to
the
EMR
CC
for
a
period
of
12
months,
to
enable
the
emrcc
to
gather
analyze
and
Report
scientifically
sound
data
and
information
necessary
to
address
the
board's
questions
and
concerns
regarding
fair
housing,
equity
and
cost
impacts
on
new
home
construction
and
inform
consent
of
existing
homeowners
and
land
owners
on
the
impacts
of
these
guidelines
on
their
homes
and
or
property.
The
answers
to
which
will
enable
the
board
to
make
an
informed
data-driven
decision.