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From YouTube: BasingstokeGov 25/07/2022 - Audit and Accounts Committee
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A
Good
evening,
everybody
welcome
to
the
audit
and
accounts
committee
meeting
fire
evacuation
procedures
for
this
evening.
There
are
no
fire
alarms
scheduled
for
this
evening.
Therefore,
if
the
fire
alarm
sounds,
please
evacuate
the
building
immediately.
A
A
A
That's
it
do
we
have
any
under
item
two
declarations
of
interest?
No,
we
have
no
urgent
matters
to
consider
on
item
three
so
on
to
item
four
minutes
of
the
meeting
held
on
the
27th
of
june.
C
A
Fair
reflection
of
that
which
went
on
yup,
yes,
okay,
agreed
all
right
item
five.
This
is
the
response
to
the
ernst
and
young
assurance
letter.
This
is
part
of
the
annual
audit
process
procedures,
so
we
receive
this
letter
from
the
auditors
to
which
we
have
then
replied
so
that
this
committee
is.
Does
this
committee
agree
with
the
the
draft
leicester
as
it
now
sits
councillor
cubic.
C
Yeah,
I
don't
know
before,
have
you
had
assurances
from
senior
management,
mr
chairman
and
vice
chairman,
that
all
of
the
statements
in
this
letter
are
accurate?
It's
my
first
question.
C
Okay,
one
of
the
areas
that
I
had
some
concerns
about
were
in
section
six,
where
it
says,
is
the
audit
and
accounts
committee
aware
of
any
organizational
management
pressures
to
meet
financial
operating
targets,
and
I
didn't
know
whether
and
I
would
be
interested
in
what
our
officers
have
to
say
in
relation
to
a
couple
of
things.
Firstly,
performance
panel
has
not
met
despite
many
members
asking
to
meet
since
january.
2020
is
the
chairman
aware
of
that,
and
is
the
officer
sue
curtin
aware
of
that.
D
So
at
the
beginning
of
the
last
so
last
may
it's
not
the
current
may.
The
previous
may
scrutiny
committee
tried
to
convene
the
performance
panel.
There
was
only
one
member
that
came
from
us
from
the
committee,
so
the
group
leaders
were
asked
if
they
wanted
to
put
forward
other
panel
members
and
unfortunately,
the
the
scrutiny
committee
took
the
decision
not
to
call
the
performance
panel
because
there
weren't
enough
members.
D
So
obviously
we
are
convening
one
now
and
we're
going
out
to
group
leaders
for
members
because
we
didn't
get
enough
members
of
the
scrutiny
committee
with
the
intention
of
it
meeting
again
in
september,
but
this
this
is
the
performance
information
that
would
otherwise
have
gone.
Performance.
Information
still
went
to
scrutiny,
just
didn't
go
to
performance
panel
instead
of
scrutiny,
but
obviously
all
of
the
monitoring
information
goes
to
cabinet
and
council
as
appropriate.
C
So
my
recollection
varies
with
yours,
because
I
have
been
on
the
performance
panel
pretty
much
most
of
my
career.
Obviously,
as
a
counselor
and
I
contacted
sadie
regularly
from
march
2020
onwards,
asking
how,
when
a
performance
panel
would
be
convened,
I've
not
never
sat
on
scrutiny,
but
I've
always
been
on
performance
panel
and
she
kept
on
telling
me.
I
don't
know
why
it's
not
happening
for
the
benefit
of
the
public
said
he
is
a
former
member
of
staff.
C
I
spoke
to
other
group
leaders
and
I
certainly
was
not
asked
to
attend
a
meeting
and
also
in
terms
of
recollections
varying.
I
was
told
by
an
officer
last
week
that
the
scrutiny
committee
had
decided
to
get
rid
of
performance
panel
altogether.
So
it
sounds
like
there's
various
recollections
and
all
I
would
like,
mr
chairman
to
say,
is,
as
a
councillor
elected
to
represent
the
residents
of
beijing
stoke.
I
think
it's
extremely
important.
A
B
So
I'm
a
reserve
on
the
scrutiny
panel
and
I
sat
on
it
last
week
or
the
week
before
I
can't
remember
and-
and
there
was
a
request
for
this
performance
panel
to
be
set
up.
I
believe
there
are
some
sp
places
for
it.
So
if
council
of
cuba
wants
to
warn
that,
I'm
sure
it's
just
a
matter
of
asking.
C
C
Secondly,
I
wonder
whether
this
document,
given
the
concerns
about
our
relationship
and
our
evaluation
of
meeting
kpis
with
regards
to
partnerships
in
my
since
I
haven't
been
here
for
a
year,
is:
does
this
document
deal
with
some
of
the
many
partnerships
that
we
have
problems
with
and
are
have
not
got
successful
outcomes
at
the
moment,
and
I
know
that
this
was
flagged
up
with
our
auditors
a
couple
of
years
ago,
I'm
fully
cognizant
of
the
problems
with
serco
and
whether
they're
meeting
their
contractual
obligations.
A
I
I
don't
interpret
it
that
way
in
terms
of
this
assurance
letter.
I
this
assurance
letter
is
looking
at
the
organization.
It's
not
looking
down
into
the
depths
of
the
individual
items.
A
C
With
great
respect,
mr
chairman,
I
suppose
what
what
I
would
like
to
know
before
I
say
to
you,
I'm
happy
for
you
to
sign
this.
Is
this:
is
it
a
fair
reflection
of
the
current
status
of
the
council?
So
I
would
like
us
to
ask
the
question
of
sue
in
view
of
the
fact
that
our
auditors
highlighted,
as
one
of
the
very
areas
of
concern,
was
the
partnerships
and
the
evaluation
of
the
partnerships
and
whether
they
performing
in
the
way
that
they're
supposed
to
sue?
C
Are
you
happy
that
all
of
the
partnerships
that
we
currently
have
significant
agreements
with
are
performing
to
the
degree
they're
supposed
to
be
performing.
D
So
I'm
not
going
to
answer
that
question,
but
I
am
going
to
answer
the
fact
that
this
question
is
talking
about
the
organization's
financial
management.
It's
not
talking
about
partnership
arrangements,
not
about
evaluating
partnerships.
That
certainly
is
picked
up
as
a
an
operating
activity
under
the
external
audit.
They
will
look
at
any
impact
on
the
financial
statements
in
terms
of
has
any
of
our
relationships
with
our
partners
impacted
significantly
or
materially
on
the
statement
of
accounts.
D
In
my
opinion,
as
it
currently
stands,
we
we
don't
that
when
I'm
not
aware
of
any
situation
where
I
think
that
our
accounts
have
been
misstated
due
to
our
partnership
plus
the
fact
they
ordered
us
pick
it
up
under
our
value
for
money.
So
it's
one
of
the
things
they
look
at.
They
look
at
partnerships
under
value
for
money.
So
this
this
is
an
assurance
letter
in
terms
of
what
has
the
committee
seen.
Have
you
been
made
aware
of
any
of
these
things?
D
So
it's
a
statement
of
fact
in
terms
of
have
you
seen
any
of
this
at
the
committee,
and
this
particular
one.
In
fact,.
D
So,
obviously,
in
discussion
with
the
auditors
in
understanding
what
they're
trying
to
ask
through
this
question-
they're
talking
about
have
any
of
us
as
senior
managers,
for
example-
instructed
an
individual
to
do
management
override,
for
example,
and
you're
being
asked.
Have
you
been
made
aware
of
any
of
these
situations,
and
what
this
is
talking
about
in
terms
of
the
monitoring
goes
to
cabinet
you're.
Absolutely
right.
In
this
scenario,
it
would
not
be
appropriate
to
reference
performance
panel
because
the
performance
panel
functionality
was
undertaken
by
the
scrutiny
committee.
D
So
we
can
take
that
those
two
words
out,
but
this
is
not
talking
necessarily
about
kpis
it's
about
talking
about
in
order
to
get
to
those
targets.
Having
any
office
has
been
put
under
pressure
in
order
to
mis
represent
the
information
etc.
And
the
statement
here
is:
have
you,
as
a
committee?
Are
you
aware
of
any
of
the
any
such
issues.
C
I'm
I'm
not
I'm
not
implying
that
there
are
misstatements
in
connection
with
the
accounts,
I'm
not
asking
about
the
accounts
or
misstatements.
I'm
not
implying
this
statement.
I'm
talking
about.
A
Full
so
I
will
just
read
them
out,
so
it's
page
15.
E
A
F
Yeah
we
seem
to
be
on
a
bit
of
a
long
debate
on
this
letter
and
it's
just
really
asking
us
to
note
it
and
comment
on
it.
I
think
going
back
to
the
point
about
the
performance
panel
and
whether
it
meets
or
doesn't
meet,
I'm
sure
it
would
back
up
and
running
soon,
but
I
think
that
it's
really
an
instruction
for
you
chat
or
request.
Perhaps
this
plighter
I'm
more
likely
to
win.
If
something
came
up
on
the
performance
panel,
I've
sat
on
scrutiny.
F
I've
sat
on
every
committee
apart
from
dc
and
and
licensing
and
when
the
performance
panel
tends
to
be
wedged
right
at
the
end
of
the
agenda,
so
you
have
a
performance
panel
meet.
They
have
an
in
good
discussion
about
various
issues
and
it
kind
of
goes
to
scrutiny
and
then
sort
of
glides
away,
and
I
think,
if
there's
anything
that
occurs
on
that
performance
panel,
that
is
finance
related.
F
It
should
be
highlighted
to
you,
as
the
chairman,
to
bring
a
favor
before
this
committee
to
deep
dive
the
issue
rather
than
going
to
scrutiny
or
the
performance
scrutiny
where
it's
forgotten
in
a
busy
agenda
or
the
performance
panel,
where
you've
got
a
very
small
number
of
people.
We
are
the
audit
and
accounts
committee.
F
We
have
the
right,
I
think,
to
request
to
look
at
anything
that
we
feel
we
want
to
look
at,
and
it
seems
to
me
that
performance
panel
report
will
be
the
one
that
highlights
the
kpi
measures
will
highlight
any
issues
we
want
to
look
at
if
they've
not
already
come
through,
as
a
report
already.
Obviously
we're
going
to
duplicate
ourselves,
but.
A
That's
the
way
it
works
in
our
constitution.
You
know
I've
always
thought
that
would
be
a
debate
to
be
had
of.
Should
you
rejig
that,
but
that's
the
way
we
currently
operate.
C
So,
mr
chairman,
we
we
had
a
training
session
just
before.
Actually
the
current
officers
sue
curtin
arrived
and
we
spent
a
lot
of
money
as
a
council
having
a,
I
think,
a
five-hour
training
session
with
a
top
accountant,
and
it
was
very
clear
at
that
meeting
the
training
that
we
were
given
that
our
remit
is
much
wider
than
that
which
you've
just
described.
It
is
our
responsibility
to
ensure
that
that
that
you
know
we
are
sufficiently
comfortable
with
both
the
order
and
the
governance
of
this
council.
C
The
clue
is
in
the
name
and
the
clue
is
in
the
government
statement,
so
it's
not
exclusively
and
solely
the
accounts.
That
is
our
responsibility.
In
my
opinion,.
D
So
the
remit
of
the
audio
accounts
committee
obviously
is
governance
of
the
organization,
whether
that
be
internal
audit,
whether
that
be
the
treasury
management
stuff
that
has
actually
been
delegated
from
council.
The
annual
audit
plan
that's
been
delegated
from
council
and
obviously
the
annual
statement
of
accounts.
It
is
not
responsible
for
looking
at
the
corporate
monitoring,
it's
not
looking
at
performance
and
it's
not
looking
at
budget
setting,
etc.
That
is
the
remit
of
scrutiny,
cabinet
and
council.
A
Thank
you
back
to
this
letter.
Do
any
other
counselors
have
any
comments
on
it.
I
mean
your
your
comments.
C
C
Is
there
any
actual
or
potential
litigation
we
should
be
aware
of.
Have
we
asked
that
question
of
the
officers,
because
I'm
not
proud
to
agree
to
this
letter
until
an
officer
has
publicly
said
to
me?
No,
that
committee
does
not
need
to
be
aware
of,
because
there
are
none.
Do
you
see
what
I'm
saying
I
mean
I'm
not
proud
to
say
I'm
unaware
of
something
and
therefore
it
doesn't
exist.
D
I
can
confirm
that
I
separately
have
to
send
a
an
assurance
letter
as
well,
which
is
very
similarly
worded
to
the
document
that
you're
being
asked
to
sign
as
a
committee,
and
I
can
confirm
that.
I'm
not
aware
of
anything
that
you're
not
aware
of.
A
Okay
can
notwithstanding
the
comments
that
we
will
note
in
the
minutes,
agree
that
that
this
letter
should
be
sent
to
ernst
young
signed
by
me
yep.
Thank
you.
A
Okay.
So,
on
to
agenda
item
number
six:
the
regulation
of
investigative
powers
act,
2000
ripper,
the
annual
report
and
annual
review
of
the
river
policy.
So
how
is
that
too?
Yeah.
G
G
G
H
Just
going
to
ask
whether
the
does
my
magistrate
give
the
authorization
or
the
authorizing
officer
who
can
do
renewal
and
cancellation
at
this
is
3.3,
I'm
looking
at
where
we
have
got,
because
I
do
remember.
The
thing
is
that
we
have.
We
had
a
different
setup
when
I
was
in
the
courts,
and
this
one
is
different.
So
can
I
have
a
some
clarification
regarding
that
for
the
at
3.3.
G
If
we
were
ever
to
need
an
authorization,
yes,
we
have
to
go
through
the
magistrates
court
to
get
one
and
it
has
to
be
signed
off
by
the
authorising
officers
at
the
council
of
either
the
chief
exec
or
the
director
prior
to
doing
that.
In
fact,
we
haven't
applied
for
a
reauthorization
for
a
good
number
of
years,
because
we
don't
normally
do
covert
surveillance.
A
D
Thank
you
chair.
So,
yes,
as
you
know,
a
new
strategic
asset
management
plan
was
approved
by
council
in
february
and
within
that
plan.
Obviously
there
is
an
updated
annual
property
plan
which
obviously
the
this
committee
receives,
updates
and
the
annual
report
against
that
plan.
D
That
plan
notes
the
committee's
previous
request
for
benchmarking
information
and
that
will
certainly
be
included
in
future
monitoring.
But
what
it
also
identifies
is
the
fact
that
the
old
property
investment
strategy
has
ceased.
It's
now
part
of
our
business
as
usual,
and
focuses
on
the
new
property
investment
strategy
which
operates
in
a
slightly
different
manner.
D
So
and,
as
the
chairs
already
noted,
this
is
in
relation
to
2122,
which
was
still
operating
under
the
old
property
investment
strategy
which,
in
in
money
terms,
was
the
32.5
million
pounds
that
was
spent
on
a
handful
of
assets.
Those
are
now
part
of
our
business
as
usual
and
we
have
a
new
property
investment
strategy,
so
this
is
looking
at
the
previous
year,
not
the
new,
updated
strategic
asset
management
plan,
so
I'm
going
to
hand
it
to
martin
who's
going
to
take
you
through
the
report.
I
Thank
you
sue.
As
I
said,
it's
a
look
back
at
2021
to
2022
and
we're
working
under
the
old
property
investment
strategy.
There
have
been
no
further
purchases,
as
you
will
sort
of
gather.
We
spent
32
million
pounds
in
the
sort
of
previous
years.
I
I
Jll
have
developed
a
new
asset
management
plan
which
was
signed
off
by
a
cabinet
and
council
in
sort
of
february
this
year
and
for
the
period
2021
to
2022.
I
It's
been
really
about
asset
management,
maximizing
the
as
the
returns
we
can
get
through
the
properties,
sort
of
managing
the
issues
and
the
fallout
from
coved
and
working
with
a
lot
of
the
tenants.
I
The
industrial
market
has
been
sort
of
particularly
strong.
Our
portfolio
is
sort
of
more
or
less
70
industrial
industrial
and
has
performed
very,
very
well.
Retail
has
been
sort
of
challenging
as
as
well
as
the
food
and
sort
of
beverage
sort
of
sector.
I
A
big
area
of
success
during
last
year
has
been
the
sort
of
entry
gears
on
the
various
sort
of
properties
we've
undertaken
and
there's
an
annex
sort
of
in
the
in
the
pack,
which
sort
of
points
out
some
of
those
successes.
I
I'll
just
pick
out
a
few
by
sort
of
exception,
the
same
mod
wins
deal,
which
is
the
old
motorola
itt
site
in
exceptionally
sort
of
good
return.
There
managed
to
sort
of
get
a
tenant
for
the
whole
development
and
the
cutting-edge
sustainable
industry.
I
Normandy
house
is
some
more
or
less
been
will
be
completed
this
year,
but
the
agreement
was
completed
in
20
21
22
in
order
to
sort
of
convert
those
that
space
into
residential
units
and
get
a
non-income
produce
assets
into
sort
of
a
positive
income
producing
situation,
and
they
produced
quite
substantial
sort
of
the
capital
gains
on
book
value.
I
So
there's
sort
of
many
successes
that
are
listed
there.
Additionally,
a
massive
focus
on
sustainability
and
ensuring
another
portfolio
is
resilient
sort
of
going
forward,
and
we
continue
to
undertake
a
number
of
work
streams
on
on
sort
of
on
those
areas,
sort
of
ensuring
that
the
buildings
are
compliant
going
forward.
I
As
there's
many
regulations,
we've
got
to
sort
of
meet
in
addition
on
the
operational
portfolio,
we've
sort
of
secured
sort
of
latins
as
well
on
that
sort
of
parklands
bringing
in
as
some
income
as
well,
so
that
that's
a
sort
of
a
quick
sort
of
counter
through
the
sort
of
progress
to
date.
And
if
there's
any
questions.
A
F
That's
weird:
okay,
yeah,
the
first
one
is
annex
one
sample
of
significant
transactions.
I
don't
like
the
word
significant,
because
I
appreciate
from
a
property
management
point
of
view.
Significant
is
probably
set
as
a
value
as
a
counsellor
level
kind
of
point
of
view.
Significant
swan
street
would
not
be
significant
financially,
but
I've
sat
in
a
pub
in
king's
clear
and
he
had
a
lot
about
the
street
and
that
property
there.
So
I
think
it
would
be
good
to
get
a
fuller
list.
I
appreciate,
then
we
drift
onto
pink
papers.
F
I
could
accept
that
because
another
thing
I
bring
up
eli
lilly
amazing
view
now
followed
that
from
its
original
shops
going
in
fact
nearly
a
conservative
council.
A
lot
he's
shopping
that
so
the
summary
you've
got
here
million
pounds
of
year,
rent
absolutely
spot
on,
but
actually
hides
the
original
complexity
of
the
deal,
which
involves
an
old
property,
a
significant
investment
from
the
lep
in
to
the
development
of
the
building
in
the
first
place.
F
So
until
you
can
see
a
full
picture,
it's
very
hard
for
me
as
a
counselor
to
say
and
that
one
I
actually
think
was
a
really
good
deal.
I
think
it's
you
know
grade
8
office
space
15
year
lease
you
know,
we've
got
to
even
when
they
go
we'll
have
our
money
back
and
a
really
good
office
block,
but
it
I'd
like
to
see
the
fuller
picture
on
some
of
these.
F
These
other
deals
that
we
are
doing
or
expecting
to
do
at
some
point
in
the
you
know,
on
a
regular
basis,
get
an
update,
so
it
doesn't
have
to
be
a
committee
topic,
but
I
need
to
look
at
it,
particularly
as
my
award
includes
obviously
viables,
and
it
includes
amazing
view,
I'm
quite
interested
in
some
of
the
commercial
property
deals
we
do
as
well
as
the
community
ones.
E
Chair
another
question
from
councillor
basham
on
page
52
at
gender
item:
7
item
2.9,
it's
a
fairly
blunt
question:
what
does
this
mean
specifically?
Could
we
have
some
examples
of
the
type
of
obligations?
Relieved?
E
I
Yes,
sorry,
if
I've
gone
into
sort
of
jargon
there,
what
are
we
trying
to
do
with
the
community
strategy?
I
It
covers
community
centers,
wc
accommodation,
for
example,
where
we
want
to
transfer
to
the
parishes
in
some
cases
where,
where
agreement
can
be
reached,
it
can
be
where
community
centers
want
to
take
care
of
a
more
hands-on
approach
to
their
community
centers
themselves
and
to
into
agreement
with
ourselves
and
appropriate
leases
covering
covering
those
points.
I
E
So
those
would
be
the
costs
that
are
being
avoided
by
handing
them
over.
Yes
right,
okay,
that's
fine!
If
I
may
just
a
question
on
section
three
sustainability:
do
we
have
an
assessment
of
all
the
properties
we
own
that
show
and
demonstrate
the
potential
for
its
contribution
to
zero
carbon
targets.
I
Yes,
this
this
is
work
that
is
sort
of
presently
underway.
We
we
have
sort
of
most
of
the
information-
I
won't
say
all
of
it
and
we've
appointed
a
company
recently
called
tactec
to
carry
out
an
energy
audit
of
all
those
buildings,
focusing
particularly
on
the
council
occupied
and
run
buildings.
So
we
can
closely
track
energy
costs.
E
On
the
last
page
of
annex
one
sample
of
significant
transactions,
20
21
22.
under
mount
baton
house
under
the
third
column
pounds,
it
says
a
5
million
pound
receipt
received
from
the
council.
What?
What?
What
does
that
mean.
E
A
B
J
Very
much
chair
I
just
wanted
to
ask:
do
you
feel
that
we're
getting
value
for
money
with
the
investments
we've
made?
Are
we
getting
good
returns?
For
that
and
another
thing
I
would
like
to
ask:
how
is
the
new
system
going
to
be
different
to
the
old
one?
How
does
it
work.
D
So,
in
terms
of
the
overall
receipt,
yes,
we
continue
to
exceed
the
original
five
percent
requirement
in
terms
of
the
internal
rate
of
return.
Sorry,
the
initial
rate
return
in
terms
of
how
the
previous
property
investment
strategy
works
and
how
the
new
one
works.
D
If
you
like,
that
was
a
close
sum
of
money
which
was
looking
at
an
alternative
investment
strategy
which
was
looking
to
achieve
a
higher
return
than
we
could
get
otherwise
under
treasury
management
and
once
the
funding
was
spent,
it
was
spent,
and
it
wasn't
about
active
asset
management
or
strategic
asset
management
of
our
current
portfolio.
It
was
about
investing
money,
further
money
in
property
to
effectively
achieve
a
higher
rate
of
return
than
we
were
getting
on
that
money.
Whilst
it
was
going
through
treasury
management
activity,
so
it's
part
of
our
alternative
investment
strategy.
D
The
new
property
investment
strategy
has
a
different
focus,
in
my
opinion,
as
151
officer,
I
think
we've
reached
a
limit
or
a
ceiling
of
the
amount
of
money.
We
should
be
investing
in
property
at
the
current
time
and
therefore
working
with
jll.
The
proposal
is
that
we
concentrate
on
our
underperforming
assets.
D
They
may
well
just
be
things
that
you
know:
we've
got
an
opportunity
to
sell
strategic
sites
etc,
but
the
plan
being
is
that
actually
we
dispose
of
underperforming
assets
to
then
actually
invest
in
assets
of
the
same
value,
but
actually
gets
a
greater
return
for
the
council,
and
that
will
be
a
rolling
program.
So
we
have
this
continuous
cycle.
That's
built
into
the
capital
programme
of
a
30
million
pound
scheme,
with
a
10
million
pound
form
for
better
word,
starter
amount
if
we
do
any
investments
in
advance
of
any
disposals.
D
K
D
So
the
property
investment
strategy
only
covers
properties
that
we
hold
for
property
investment
purposes,
so
it
doesn't
include
operational
or
community
assets.
Thank
you.
J
Okay,
you
said
underperform
and
say:
okay,
we
saw
down
before
underperforming
asset,
and
you
just
mentioned:
we've
reached
our
limit
on
actual
housing
or
property
investments.
J
When
we
sell
the
actual
underperforming
assets,
is
it
do?
Can
we
buy
other
property
because
you
said
we've
got
to
the
maximum
or
are
we
going
to
invest
in
other
sort
of
sort
of
investments.
D
So,
let's
say
for
arguments
say
we
have
a
300
million
pound
property
portfolio.
We
sell
a
10
million
pound
asset.
We
can
buy
another
10
million
pound
asset,
so
we're
looking
to
not
necessarily
exceed
our
kind
of
ceiling
if
you
like,
but
obviously,
if
we
dispose
of
an
asset,
we
can
then
use
that
money
and
reinvest
it
to
try
and
get
a
better
return.
If
you
like.
I
The
value
of
the
investment
portfolio
is
345.,
340
million
and
the
previous
year
it
was
295
and
that's
partly
a
result
of
the
performance
of
industrial
property,
which
is
performing
very
well
and
nationwide
and
through
sort
of
a
number
of
the
least
three
years
that
have
been
undertaken.
C
Result
of
the
revaluations,
following
on
from
our
commissioning
of
jl,
whatever
it's
called
calculations
on
the
values
of
our
underlying
assets,.
I
No,
it's
it's
it's
a
case
of
one
certain
sectors
of
the
market
performing
very
well,
and
secondly,
a
number
of
the
least
three
gears
which
were
presently
income.
Notting
can
produce
and
sort
of
generating
significant
value
to
the
portfolio
when
the
leases
were
re-geared.
C
So
I
mean
that's
amazing
outcome.
I
I
mean
I'm
looking
at
previous
years
and
the
information
we're
given
versus
the
information
that
you've
chosen
to
give
us
today-
and
I
I
think,
just
for
the
benefit
of
the
committee
and
I've
always
felt
passionately
about
it.
It's
it's
good
to
have
comparisons
that
are
enable
us
to
know.
What's
happened
last
year
versus
this
year,
so
I
don't
know
what
the
chairman
thinks,
but
I
think
going
forward.
C
It
would
be
extremely
useful
to
have
the
value
repeated
and
the
annual
rental
income
repeated
each
year
and
the
sums
of
the
acquisitions
and
the
re-gearing
etc.
D
C
Thank
you
very
much
now
going
on.
I
am
on
record
as
saying
when
we
took
the
30
million
out
of
the
treasury
portfolio
and
allowed
the
council,
through
a
council
motion,
to
put
it
into
property
to
increase
the
yield,
because
interest
rates
were
historically
at
an
all-time
low.
C
I'm
dismayed
that
that
has
now
disappeared
into
this
fungible
legacy:
commercial,
real
estate
portfolio,
because
what
that
means
is
that
we'll
not
be
able
to
evaluate
whether
those
assets
that
were
invested
in
acquired
estate
actually
ended
up
being
a
good
investment
in
the
long
term,
because
we
all
know
that
when
you
buy
secondary
commercial
real
estate,
you
can
get
great
return.
C
But
your
initial
investment
goes
down
significantly
and
can
end
up
being
substantially
less
I.e.
Your
front-ending
revenue,
but
your
overall
investment
ends
up
being
considerably
less
than
the
initial
investment.
And
now
with
you
advising
us
that,
apparently,
we
all
agreed
a
little
bit
like
the
smarter
ways
of
working.
When
we
didn't
really
understand
that
we
were
all
agreeing
to
the
staff
working
for
three
days
a
week
forever
more
at
home.
C
Were
the
council
aware
that
they'd
agreed
to
that
30
million
investment
disappearing
into
a
bunny
rabbit
hole,
and
we
now
won't
be
able
to
evaluate
whether
it's
still
worth
30
million
or
it's
worth?
32
million
or
it's
worth
36
million
in
five
years
time.
D
And
so
it
was
obviously
quite
transparent
and
detailed
in
the
new
property
investment
strategy,
so
it
was
referred
to
and
it
was
picked
up
as
the
point
that,
from
an
operational
point
of
view,
I
appreciate
it
is
monitored
in
the
same
way
as
all
of
our
other
properties.
So
we
don't
just
monitor
it
as
one
lump.
We
monitor
every
individual
property.
D
So
if,
as
part
of
the
annual
report,
you
would
like
us
to
include
an
update
in
terms
of
how
those
particular
properties
are
performed,
I'm
more
than
happy
to
do
that,
because
we
can
still
look
at
it
on
an
individual
basis.
But
but
as
from
a
monitoring
point
of
view,
the
deal
was
done.
The
money
is
there,
it's
been
invested
and
we're
getting
over.
We
monitor
the
portfolio
as
a
whole,
but
we
can
certainly
include,
as
part
of
the
annual
report
on
the
annual
property
plan,
an
update
on
how
those
particular
buildings
are
progressing.
D
C
Really
grateful,
I
know
that
historically
fellow
colleagues
specifically
said
that
they
wished
for
that
sheet
of
paper
which
detailed
the
five
assets
that
were
invested
from
conversion
from
treasury
into
commercial
real
estate
and,
as
you
will
and
you've
made
reference
to
it,
how
we
have
to
rebalance
our
investments.
You
will
also
recall
that
I've
always
been
extremely
concerned
about
the
fact
that
so
much
of
our
investment
is
in
commercial
real
estate.
When
I
come
from
a
background
where
you
should
be
diversifying
your
portfolio,
so
I'm
delighted
to
hear
that
you're
looking
to
diversify.
C
But
nonetheless,
if
I
could
carry
on
asking
some
questions,
I'd
be
very
grateful.
In
2.8,
you
make
a
reference
to
the
revenue
generated
from
the
leasing
to
the
nhs.
C
What
was
your
predicted
revenue
from
parkland
when
the
sw,
when
the
small
ways
of
working
project
was
put
forward,
and
does
that
include
money
that
we
had
to
spend
to
get
it
to
a
certain
quality?
Is
a
net
figure
or
is
it
a
gross
figure?
And
how
much
do
we
have
to
spend
it
before
we
actually
rented
it
to
the
nhs.
D
So
if
I
take
that
one,
so
the
assumption
was
that
we
would
raise
circa
180
000
pounds
by
renting
out
the
building,
as
you
can
see,
we're
actually
getting
270,
so
we've
managed
to
exceed
what
we
expected
and
the
the
occupier
took
the
building,
as
is
so,
we
did
not
have
to
spend
money
and
they
also
took
our
redundant
furniture
that
we
would
have
otherwise
had
to
dispose
of.
So
actually
so
that
is
a
is
a
gross
figure,
but
actually
there
was
no
cost
or
set
against
it.
C
Excellent,
thank
you
very
much
great
news.
Well
done
so
in
in
in
in
in
in
kind
of
conclusion,
I
would
very
much
appreciate
that
sheet
of
paper
which
evaluates
those
investments
because
they
were
specifically
supposed
to
be
ring
fence.
C
Secondly,
I
would
like
considerably
more
information
on
the
performance
of
this
portfolio
at
this
meeting
annually
and
I'd
like
it
to
go
back
to
what
it
used
to
be
like
under
your
predecessor,
where
we're
told
what
the
value
is
each
year,
what
the
annual
rental
income
is
each
year
and
and
the
numbers
that
make
up
the
success
stories
that
you've
clearly
had-
and
I
congratulate
you
on,
but
I'd
like
in
future
for
us
as
a
committee
to
see
more
of
the
information
that
feeds
that
information.
Thank
you.
A
Okay,
good
councillor,
james.
F
Only
to
my
recollection
of
the
history
is
actually
very
similar
to
only
hubitz
until
she
started
talking,
and
then
it
went
about
the
30
million
that
went
into
the
original
property
investment
strategy.
F
I
think
that
was
to
create
a
vehicle,
because
we
realized
that
if
you
want
to
move
quickly,
one
thing
councillors
aren't
very
good
at
is
moving
quickly
when
it
comes
to
decision
making
and
sometimes
in
the
property
market.
If
you
want
to
shift
something
or
gain
something
or
take
an
opportunity,
you
kind
of
need
an
answer
fairly
quickly
and
there's
a
vehicle
to
do
that.
Clearly,
once
you've
spent
that
money
and
acquired
good
properties,
why
would
you
have
two
different
management
regimes
managing
long-term
investment?
It
was
supposed
to
be
that
short
term.
F
If
you
gain
something
you've
got
it,
you
then
swap
it
into
the
council's
mainstream
stuff.
If
we
found
a
way
around
the
making
quick
investment
decisions
without
having
to
go
through
the
sort
of
process
that
councillors
have,
then
we
don't
really
need
it
at
all.
I've
got
no
problem
with
investing
money
in
property.
I
think
it
helps
us
shape
the
economy
of
the
borough.
F
Clearly,
we're
very
wise,
we
know
not
to
expose,
and
I
saw
some
of
the
reports
that
came
out
when
you
know
various
other
children,
business,
genuine
shopping
centre
came
up
and
we
ran
a
mile
because
we've
got
some
exposure
to
retail
already.
So
I
think
sensible
decisions
are
made.
I
think
long.
Should
we
continue
it.
I
don't
really
understand
why
diversification
I
mean
we
own
office
blocks,
we
own
retail,
we
own
warehousing,
we
own
lots
of
property
that
is
diversified,
whereas
of
course,
if
you've
got
money,
it's
not
really
diversified.
F
A
banking
crash
kills
money.
Whatever
you
do
so
it
doesn't
mean
we
can't
change
strategies
for
many
years.
Money
was
useful.
Financial
investments,
pathetic
returns.
To
be
honest,
wasn't
even
keeping
pace
with
inflation.
It's
actually
losing
us
money.
By
having
cash
investments,
we've
moved
migrated
to
property.
It
may
come
a
time
to
migrate
back,
but
I
don't
think
we
should
knock
property
investments
because
I
think
actually,
for
the
borough.
Money
is
fairly
useless
to
us
because
we
can't
spend
our
assets.
C
It's
an
update
from
martin,
if
possible,
on
beijing
view
please
and
where
we're
at
there,
because
obviously
I
drive
past
it
every
day
and
it
just
for
I
mean
you
know
about.
I
think
it's
eight
years
ago,
lovely
glossy
picture
before
you
even
turned
up
saying
basically
the
best
connected
most
affordable
business
destination
in
the
south.
And
how
are
you
going
to
do
all
these
amazing
things
and
obviously,
there's
still
a
lot
of
vacant
property
there
10
years
later,
yeah
there
is
but
I'd
love
an
update
possible.
Please.
A
A
Later
committee-
because
this
is
a
report
on
last
year
up
until
march
20
of
this
year,
so
the
points
you're
making
would
really
be
in
this
year's
strategy.
D
D
C
So
so,
just
just
for
my
well
for
the
benefits
of
the
public
as
well
martin,
it
does
does
basically
view
sit
underneath
your
responsibility,
or
is
it
separate
to
your
responsibility.
I
It's
it's
sort
of
split
with
sort
of
myself
and
kate
that
there
are
a
lot
of
good
news
stories
coming
coming
up
on
sort
of
base
and
view
a
number
of
them
are
actually
in
annex
one
as
well
and
there's
a
sort
of
further
news
to
sort
of
developing
which
are
is
in
the
early
stage.
At
the
moment.
I
The
leisure
park
is
dealt
with
by
kate
exclusively.
We
do
the
management
of
the
existing
tenants
within
the
sort
of
leisure
park,
the
and
sort
of
works
to
the
awkward
room
as
as
is
but
not
the
new
development
plans,
and
so.
C
D
And
so
just
picking
up
that
point
obviously
number
of
the
items
you're
raising
are
regeneration
and
they're
dealt
with
by
kate
dean
as
the
regeneration
manager,
the
assets
on
basing
view
that
are
obviously
already
let
etc
are
included
in
the
valuations,
but
obviously
the
update
in
terms
of
what's
happening
on
bayesian
view.
The
strategy
amazing
view
et
cetera,
comes
under
kate
dean.
C
So
so,
just
I'm
not
being
very
intelligent,
so
of
the
345
million
that
you
referred
to.
A
large
percentage
of
that
is
actually
to
do
with
bayesian
view,
leisure
part
and
many
down.
Then.
C
I
would
like
circulated
afterwards
if
possible.
Mr
chairman,
the
actual
list
of
the
sites
are
some
that
add
up
to
345,
because
obviously,
here
what
we
have
for
investment
property,
existing
investment,
property,
272
property
investment
strategy,
30
investor,
grow
investment,
many
down
service
based
loans
and
that
all
came
to
an
estimate
in
2020
of
330
333
million.
C
And
then
the
estimate
of
those
same
assets
by
2021
was
336
million
and
then
by
2022
345
million,
which
is
great
because
it
means
that
basically,
this
paper
in
2019
has
got
its
estimates
accurate
with
your
345
million.
But
it's
just
useful
to
have
the
breakdowns.
I
think.
D
So
so,
obviously,
as
part
of
the
annual
statement
of
accounts,
we
do
provide
that
breakdown
by
by
the
groupings.
So
we'll
be
happy
to
provide
that
to
you.
H
Thank
you,
chairman.
No,
no
worries.
I
have
got
just
two
quick
questions.
This
is
to
do
with
square
or
beijing
view
and
the
quantum
house
with
regards
to
the
lease
regear
and
it
says,
completion
is
due
july
22.,
our
both
of
these
been
completed.
Now
we
are
in
july.
H
I
We
marked
in
the
property
we're
getting
sort
of
interest
from
a
variety
of
sort
of
retailers,
but
we
haven't
got
heads
of
terms
agreed
with
anybody
yet,
but
we
are
marketing
quite
aggressively
as
it's
one
of
the
few
vacant
units
we've
got
in
the
portfolio.
H
When
the
frankie
little
frankie's
entered
the
creditor's
voluntary
agreement,
is
there
any
money
owing
or.
I
J
Three
questions
sorry
we're
talking
about.
You
were
talking
about
diversity
of
our
investments,
martin.
What
sort
of
investments
are
we
looking
at?
Are
there
medium
risk
investments
where
we
get
better
returns
and
are
we
looking
at
more
industrial
estate
property
than
retail,
as
retailers
not
are
giving
us
good
returns
in
the
future?.
I
Yeah,
when
we
assess
sort
of
investments,
they've
got
to
conform
to
a
matrix
of
sort
of
criteria,
so
the
return
on
investments,
the
unexpired
term
of
the
lease.
If
there's
a
break
clause,
you've
got
kind
of
you
sort
of
assess
things
like
that.
The
quality
and
sustainability
in
particular,
there's
beginning
to
be
a
little
two-tier
market
on
sustainability.
I
So
we've
got
to
push
that
really
hard,
not
only
on
existing
portfolio,
but
on
properties
we
buy
in.
We
are
looking
to
diversify
sort
of
uses.
You
know
from,
for
example,
the
the
life
science
sector,
the
you
know
we
heavily
weighted
in
industrial
at
the
moment,
but
we
might
get
rid
of
some
of
the
underperforming
industrial
units
and
buy
some
newer
ones.
So
those
are
the
sort
of
things
we're
looking
at
and
the
general
trends
in
in
the
market
as
well.
A
Or
we're
asked
to
note
the
report.
I
think
some
of
the
points
been
very
useful.
I
think
we've
the
performance
for
last
year
has
has
been
extremely
encouraging,
so
well
done
on
that.
I
think
for
for
next
year.
Taking
some
of
the
points
here
more
detail
in
next
year's
report
would
probably
be
of
great
interest
to
the
committee.
A
G
A
Oh,
it's
not
going
to
be
such
a
big
meeting.
The
hanson
young
initial
warning
report.
Are
we
looking
at
november
yeah,
I
mean
with
the
general
situation
with
the
audit
of
the
borough
district
councils,
etc.
That's
everywhere
has
been
pushed
back
to
november
statement.
Accounts
will
be
very
interesting
and
that
will
have
a
lot
of
the
information
that
has
been
mentioned
this
evening,
summary
of
investment
income.
Are
there
any
other
items
not
on
here
internal
audit
progress
report
quarter
one
treasury
management
report
yeah.
So
that's
for
the
26th
of
september,
okay.