Boston City TV, MA City of Boston Parks Department, 24 Feb 2021

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From YouTube: Clarendon St Tot Lot Design Meeting #2 2-24-21

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Clarendon St Tot Lot Design Meeting #2 2-24-21

A

This evening, I'm going to give it- I just did give it a few minutes before we started um so welcome back if you were able to attend the first meeting and welcome uh if this is your first one, my name is nathan frazee, I'm the project manager from the boston parks and recreation department, overseeing the improvements to clarendon tot lot.

A

We have a few necks, please we have a few housekeeping items. First off tonight's meeting, it will be recorded and it will be available on the project website within a week. So please feel free to share that link in and remind any neighbors or friends that weren't able to attend tonight during the presentation portion. We ask that you keep your video and mic off.

A

However, when we open it for a discussion period at the end, uh we're going to ask that people, uh if you're comfortable, to turn your your cameras on and try and have it be as more as personable and you know, replicate a in-person meeting as much as possible uh next.

A

So with that being said, we want to ensure that this conversation tonight is a pleasant experience for all uh community members and that everybody is comfortable sharing their comments, questions and feedback, so please be respectful and mindful of each other's time, as we have only have an hour and a half together tonight. So let's keep questions and comments, project specific and on point uh and wait till all. Attendees have had an opportunity to ask question or provide comment before we get to a second one, I'm also providing my contact here.

A

So if there's any additional information or conversation that you want to have certainly feel free to reach out to me and that contact will also be put later on in the presentation next, so a few zoom tips. uh As I mentioned, we are asking participants if they're comfortable comfortable to turn on their cameras. You can simply do that by clicking on the camera icon shown on the left hand, side of the screen.

A

The same goes for the microphone.

A

When we get to the question uh and answer portion in the discussion portion, you can raise your hand, which is shown with the little blue kind of high five hand, so click on that and we'll be calling on people uh in order that we see them and uh christine will give you the opportunity to unmute yourself so once you're called on that's when you unmute.

A

um So uh if you are joining by phone, which I don't think I see anybody joining by phone. But uh if you were doing that star 9 raises your hand through the the phone so that that kind of takes care of all the housekeeping items. So next, so our agenda tonight is again to go over the project team.

A

What we heard from the first public meeting present conceptual plan, alternatives listening and discussion and then we'll do a closing remarks and next steps next.

A

So, as I mentioned, my name is nathan frazee, I'm the project manager overseeing this on this slide. You have my email and phone line number. We also have christine brandeo on the call she's, given a good wave there, but she's our outreach coordinator in external affairs she's. A great resource for friends groups, but also anything else that may be happening that you know on adjacent parks or anything like that uh from our design team we have westin and sampson with us tonight is sherry rowan, also given a good wave and cassie bethany next.

A

So this is our project schedule and funding, which consists of a capital funding commitment of 1.53 million dollars. uh Tonight is our second meeting and uh with the first having taken place on january 7th, we anticipate uh the third meeting, uh maybe at the end of march, which will conclude our uh outreach uh for this process.

A

But we've got a lot of feedback on the first meeting that uh about concern about when construction occurs, especially since this park is heavily used by schools. So we're working on setting up a meeting with those schools and the friends group here to discuss how we can you know, adjust that this schedule somewhat to lessen the burden on any particular group. So I'm hoping by the next meeting we'll have it had a chance to have that meeting and we'll update uh everybody um about any changes in how that schedule will be taking place next.

A

So, just a recap on that on our first meeting there's uh four primary primary primary elements that go into park: design for the city. The first is city of boston priorities. uh Then we have safety guidelines and regulations.

A

We have parks and recreation goals and then we have community input like what we're getting tonight. So the city of boston initiatives and park recreation goals are in that first presentation.

A

We went in a little bit more detail on those in that presentation, so if you're interested in those feel free to reference that uh previous presentation next so uh because we're looking at a playground, we're concerned about the five elements of play, which are physical, cognitive, sensory communication and social next, so this slide uh goes into a breakdown on what uh examples of those each of those are both from a type of development, but also what type of elements physical elements within the park contribute to that um again, I'm going to let you it's a lot of text, a lot of writing on this, so if you're interested in that, definitely feel free to look at that following the meeting.

A

The one thing I do want to know is that, throughout the first public meeting, the notion of sensory play in materials that kids could interact with was very apparent. Unfortunately, sand is a material that we've been removing from our playgrounds due to multiple issues.

A

Oftentimes, we see sand migrate around the playground and it fills the voids of the rubber surfacing, making the material not as safe for when kids fall. We also see feral cats, often using them as outdoor litter boxes, which uh can can uh introduce some hazardous materials to kids, but also it's a sometimes a hiding spot for sharp and dangerous materials that kids can come in to interact with so because of those issues as a department city-wide.

A

We have been working to remove this material during construction projects, but, as I said, we we definitely heard that sensory play is a very important part of this playground and how people are using that. So we have some elements of that incorporated into each of the concepts tonight. So we're definitely excited to see what you guys have to say and some discussion about that.

A

So with that being said, I'm going to turn it over to sherry and she's going to go over what we heard from our first meeting.

B

C

Nate, so I'm going to run through these quickly and then we get into some images that start to really illustrate some of these themes. Preserving the flavor of the playground was a big theme. People really loved the aesthetic and wanted it to continue to fit into the neighborhood, so the natural colors, and making sure that there's a lot of leafy green space, making sure that kids of all ages use the park and acknowledging, as nate pointed out that local schools use it and also just being able to handle really rigorous use from all ages.

C

So um acknowledging the year-round, uh the school year's schedule, but also neighborhood, kids um and being a little bit more of a dynamic place for for more ages to come, then open play is, has been identified as an important component um central to the space sort of fleet free flow. Excuse me free form, play and community space.

C

You know where there might be neighborhood events that can take place there, so really making it more of just a playground more than a playground and more into a community park, and then city, kids, just acknowledging that they have little access to nature so keeping natural elements. The vegetation tactile play really front and center in the design. Next,.

C

So a couple of things: we know that the plantings are going to have to be very resilient for both active play, but also maintenance, considerations and sight lines from the street into the park and the park out to the street really making sure we've got stroller parking closer to the play, but a designated area off the main route and acknowledging that there's a memorial plaque to reposition and also making use of the materials that are already there that make the place really feel so. Special like the granite blocks, was really important. Next.

C

The tree canopy we want to. We want to maintain that we probably will do some pruning and crown cleaning just to make sure these trees remain healthy, making sure we incorporate the etched stones from the learning project into this redesign really being sensitive to the abutters 109 comm ave and making note that drainage is substandard in some of these places. But the benefit of having flat open space is significant and then seating for parents, caregivers, teachers, etc.

C

In close proximity to the play and, with frankly, a vantage point of as much of the park as possible. Next.

C

Just making sure that we acknowledge that accessible play, elements and swings are going to be important, and that means not only the play features themselves, but also roots to get there and the ability for parents and caregivers to support kids that need it or frankly, kids, who have adults and caregivers who may be using a mobility assistance device, make it easy for them to engage, making sure that play surfacing is compliant, and you can see in some of these images. The fiber mulch often gets moved and settles and is falls out of compliance fairly quickly.

C

Each piece of play equipment really can provide a lot of different play value so making sure that it's multitasking for different age groups and reusing a lot of the site elements, as we mentioned, and also acknowledging that sensory play, um are obviously a free and open form of play and they're an important component. But we also want to be mindful of sort of maintenance and and other considerations.

C

A

C

More nope, I lied, but I did want to um say. I saw in the comment that somebody noted there were several people that gave feedback they'd like lighting for the early evening. So it's something that we definitely um can take a look at and make sure that maybe there's lighting at the entrance way or there's a way to incorporate lower lighting just at a pedestrian level, but also understanding that um a butter sensitivity and the naturalized feel of the park is something that wanted to be maintained.

C

So I just wanted to acknowledge that comment and I'm gonna pass it off to cassie.

D

Thanks, sherry, so I'll go through some overarching ideas and then dive into the concepts.

D

I did want to note that when you look at the concepts, think of them as almost items on a menu that can be mixed and matched um so that when we come back to you with the preferred plan, we're gonna take everything that you heard, that we heard and put it together into a preferred plan that incorporates all the best elements and so take that as you review each uh as individual components and then I this slide just speaks to how there are a few elements that are overarching and will be continuous through all of the concepts.

D

The first being, the edge planting will be strengthened with hardy understore understory vegetation. We heard last time that the plantings take a beating as sherry had mentioned, and we'll just have to be very careful about the particular plants that we choose and where to locate them the synthetic turf we're proposing for open play areas. We want to make sure that that looks and feels like real grass, and it doesn't have that real bright color to it. There are so many options now uh and new technology that we can really make it feel like it's.

D

A natural um natural lawn really provide a wide variety of seating options. We everybody of all abilities. We want to provide a space for them to sit so we'll have options for backed benches and places with arm rests, feet, walls granite blocks and make sure that those uh seating options are near play and important place. Rubber. The the color options are endless.

D

I think we heard loud and clear at the last meeting, the the color scheme should really fit in with the natural feel and seamlessly with the neighborhood, and so we would select colors that have that. um Have that aesthetic so diving into the first concept, and we have three um overall for this concept. The the big idea is that we wanted to test how having a exterior perimeter loop path would work here. um The play value for having a perimeter path is really high.

D

It's a great cycle track for kids they'll, be able to go through all the different play areas uh and can be able to run continuously in a loop which is hard to come by in the city.

D

The other kind of big change in this concept is that um open play and the play structure designated for five to twelve year olds is actually switched in this concept, and uh we thought it would be an interesting test to see what it would feel like to have the 5 to 12 play structure in that lower zone against the the neighboring building, as almost like a kind of an adjacency and almost kind of filling up that large space that large brick wall.

D

So it's an uh was an interesting option to look at and understand that opens up the opportunity to have play elements where the amphitheater seating is now and actually make use of that embankment and so I'll go through a few uh images of what that looks like next. But there are so many opportunities for embankment play in the lower left corner.

D

We've we've worked on parks in the past, where we build an embankment, slides and have hand holds where kids can climb up and down. We can incorporate boulders and seating and so on, to make that slope really activated and I think just to go back for a second. I meant to mention that, in all of three schemes we are hoping to maintain all the existing trees. So all the schemes moving forward you'll see our preserving all the existing planting.

D

So just a few main elements when you come into the park at the same location that is now there's this little. This concept brings us the idea of a foyer, almost an entry seating where a circular bench would wrap around the existing tree. In that location it would be elevated and then the loop path would connect to that.

D

The swings would be in a similar location to where they are now.

D

We also wanted to incorporate an option that had a basket swing and then open play on in the upper northern side, uh with 5 to 12 ply connected to it a few more detailed elements just to get a sense of some of the texture that we're thinking about for the space in the sensory play area up by where the existing shed is- and I think this option would keep the existing storage shed in its location, but actually expand it to incorporate stroller an area for stroller parking.

D

um This would include some playhouses and maybe a deck, um some climbing some logs that have hand holes attached to them, and this could be a mulched area that has opportunity for that. Textural element.

D

The arch the at the entrance as well, we could incorporate an arched bridge that brings some texture to your feet as you're walking over it um and I'll I'll speak to that in a moment on the next slide um and then in the embankment in the embankment area, making sure that there's caregiver seating in the middle um while it seamlessly fits into the aesthetic of that area and then in the open play um incorporating music actually, which is a um which is a play element that is currently not in the park.

D

So I'd be we'll be interested to hear if that is something that you all are interested in pursuing and then just to wrap up on this concept.

D

A few of the other textual elements we're thinking of incorporating the sensory path, um we're thinking of including a sensory path which would be almost like either granite blocks or wood that would be built into the ground plane. That could be a really interesting little discovery zone. uh Climbing boulders throughout that could be spots with without sharp edges, but spots for kids to scramble up onto, and they could also retain so that we can get some of these pathways to work from an ada compliance perspective.

D

And then, in this game we would maintain the existing sea wall and not disrupt that planting in the middle.

D

We're also looking at ways to screen that are a little more um aesthetically, pleasing and and natural, and maybe have some play value in them.

D

So concept b we're calling the enchanted forest this one is similar in that it maintains a loop path right here, it's a little more angular, as you can tell, and it it incorporates a kind of ramp and seating amphitheater in the open play area.

D

This maintains open play and the 5 to 12 play area in their same locations, but it does modify the younger kid play area in the upper northern corner of the of the playground.

D

This is a concept where we're actually considering the idea of doing almost like a little river, um and um that is in this image here on the middle left side, where it could be like a cast um runnel. Almost that has fixed elements integrated into it and kids can put put toys and things in there and see how the water moves it can be activated by a bollard and there's a few examples around the city where this has been really successful.

D

So we think it could be a really exciting addition to the space we could also bridge over it, and so that becomes another interactive element in this scheme. We are kind of starting to dismantle the sea wall a little bit and incorporate boulders into the edge that could be used to seating and also play elements as well.

D

The scheme also really plays up the community aspect where open play is flanked by a seat almost like a terrace seating, and this ramp can actually become seating as well uh with seat walls alongside it. So this becomes really a central core community zone and really amps up, what's been what's out there currently um and then we're also calling for some freestanding play elements like the spinner and different kinds of play, structure, options for both the younger kids and the older kids.

D

Just to note too, here this scheme- just only that includes one bank of swings just to clarify between the two schemes that we've seen so far and then the third um sorry, the I had a few other details to to just talk about in the two to five and in the bigger kid play area we have in the past, done some um done a few areas where we play with undulations and rubber, and this could really be really interesting ways to make the port and place rubber a little more exciting and interactive, and so in the younger kids zone.

D

We could do a little hill that kids can scramble up onto in the bigger kids zone. We can do um some undulating mounds, say in a zone that doesn't necessarily have a spot for or have room for a play, uh actual play piece, but we can incorporate some play value in other ways.

D

We'd also want to make use of seat walls from the dismantling the existing black walls that are there. So there's lots of opportunities to do that with seating, flanked around the sensory play area and in some other spots around this. This concept um and then this sensory zone, just making use of different ways to orient logs and stepping in um and climbing, to incorporate, play value and and not necessarily a play structure.

D

And then concept c um we're calling the landing, and that's really because in this scheme, there's we're um incorporating a deck in this open plays area that almost acts like a um actually we're harnessing the idea of the back bay and the back bay's history and having um of uncovering fish weirs way down in um during archaeological dicks. And so we, um while we're not overt about that kind of concept. Idea in this. There are some elements that play into that idea.

D

um The biggest being this fishweir play edge along the younger kids play zone that almost acts like a.

D

I imagine it as in this image. There's these these almost reeds that are coming out of the ground that are wood and you can build them together and make what used to be a fish, weir and kind of mimic that idea with logs and boulders and so on.

D

So in this blue zone, where that's just indicating a different color of rubber that could almost be like the water um and then the landing in the middle um being that community zone, but also of playing into the history of this area of the city.

D

This scheme departs to kind of overall circulation wise from the the loop um that just has this one just has a connection from the main entrance through just the surfskate, and here some of the other bigger moves are reorienting the swings so that they're in a different location than they are currently swapping.

D

The younger kid play area, adding in a more robust sensory play area, that's wrapped with boulders and logs and fallen logs, and things like that play play huts and locating the 5 to 12 year old play structure in the um kind of street side section.

D

So these three schemes just generally are testing out different locations of where play structures can go where open play and so on and so forth can be located.

D

This scheme also incorporates a small sensory garden where the current stroller parking pull-off zone is and would maintain the existing walls that are there and then incorporates a circular bench here and some seating. Some stroller parking, some of the textures that we're thinking about are our timber wall edge rather than the seat wall. So this changes that material, but it adds a new texture.

D

There are different ways to have retaining walls along edges, so we are looking at different options for orienting granite blocks.

D

Seating can be a really beautiful and interesting way to integrate texture and the decking is something another opportunity for seeding and texture as well.

D

So with that, I will pass it back to nate to just wrap up and open up for questions.

A

Great, thank you um so with that. I want to open it up for discussion, uh we're going to start with one question: each uh we'll work our way through the groups uh just being conscious of time, so uh we're going to leave this three images up just for the first round of questions. Just I imagine, a lot of the questions are going to be referencing those.

A

uh So I think that will be helpful following uh kind of that first round of questions, then we'll we'll open it up for for second questions, um I do want to acknowledge that counselor bach uh is on the call, so I appreciate uh her being here tonight as well as representative livingstone.

A

So um if either one of you want to start and then following, if either of you do want to speak, I know we have several kids on the call. So I would love if any of the kids are interested and want to speak. I know I've gotten some great letters and comments from kids, so if any of the kids want to take the first round of questions or comments, we'd love to hear from them got to figure out a way. So I can see everybody raising that.

E

Block you can go ahead. Oh great um thanks! Thank you so much. um I just wanted to thank the whole parks team for being here and all the neighbors um and say this one is very personal to me.

E

This is the playground that I grew up playing in the most um and uh uh and and my grandfather back in the day was involved in in the fight to get this to be a playground um and, as were many of the long time neighbors who who are who remain invested in it to this day, and I spent a lot of time, jumping off that retaining wall um and uh playing on that tire swing and bopping around.

E

So it's very much um it's very much the landscape of my childhood imagination and obviously now I'm the counselor- and I'm really much more here tonight to um to hear what other people have to say than to uh impose my my comments. But I just what I appreciated about what the team articulated at the start here was. I do think that this playground has always had that dynamic of being kind of a landscape to discover um and having that kind of broad.

E

um That broad spoke for imagination, and I know that's something that my mother gave me that I see and like I see a lot of vocal designs tonight. So I just want to repeat that and say that I'm looking forward to.

F

E

To get feedback from all the neighbors, and if people have big things on this, you can reach out to my office.

E

Call as well and we'll distract you just closely and in touch with parks and just are excited that the city's got this in the capital budget and that we can um do something wonderful here. So uh so thanks so much to everyone for being here and uh parks for putting the process together.

G

Thank you, councillor, um representative livingston. You can go ahead.

G

I think I lost him, so I'm going to let carla.

E

You can unmute yourself.

H

Thank you um thanks, jay livingstone state representative for the area- oh hey, I live in back bay, are you you may hear. I knew it myself um because you may hear my two-year-old and five-year-old in the background. uh We are regular users of this park in normal times.

H

You know in the last year we haven't as much- um and I'm also like kenzie, uh really here to hear what everyone else has to say. um I'm really excited about this project and and to see what the final result is. uh I I would say that my kids are most excited about the water feature.

H

um The possibility of that. So thank you.

G

Thank you thank.

H

You everyone for coming and participating.

G

uh Yeah, I have a couple questions, but jax wanted to say something.

F

G

Just a couple questions looking at concepts a b and c. If I could ask, because I'm not fully understanding if, like the elevation, is going to be around the um open play space and the open play space, a lot of kids are down there, playing soccer playing baseball and like, for example, when I look at contact a um you know. I picture like with this path around it.

G

You know people getting kind of hit with balls and um so forth, but it might be because these I'm misunderstanding and these paths are elevated- I don't know there was just a concern that jumped out at me. It's finding a way to contain that that play area, because this um so much play that involves balls happening there.

D

Yeah, I can share more on the thinking behind that, so in concept a we were imagining that's at the current grade that it is um so it's like street level, and so the pathway is imagined to be at grade there in the other two they're at the current grade, they're, actually maintaining more or less the current grades out there. So in concept, a the 5 to 12 play area is actually lower in concept b. The open play zone is lower and concept c, as well.

F

So it's a good point.

D

About the perimeter path and the potential.

G

um Okay yeah, so that was just that was just one concern and then I'm sorry, if I missed this, I'm not as visual as all of you who designed this, um but in terms of the stroller parking.

G

I think it says last meeting that originally um you think the intention of that um you know the wall on the left-hand side you first come in is probably was probably for stroller parking, but everyone, just you, know, kind of brings their strollers in and usually um parks them in front of a bench um which isn't um always ideal because sometimes then they're away from the bench for like an hour. um But you don't want to sit there because there's a stroller park there.

G

But I think that I know when my son was younger um and we had a stroller. I didn't feel comfortable leaving it um on the um left-hand side, as you enter right by the um the opening, because I couldn't I couldn't keep an eye on it.

G

You know- and I have my wallet and everything in there, so I think that that's just something to keep in mind when you are considering strolling stroller parking, where uh folks would actually feel a little more comfortable being away from their stroller, because they can visually see it and that's not really the case with it being on the left hand, side as you first walk.

I

A

F

A

That's great feedback, um and one thing to note uh where these play areas are shown uh in that kind of salmony color. That is a completely accessible material as well, so uh you know stroller uh stroller locations, you know, could be dispersed throughout that do not mean they need to be right up against benches, and so that you know some of those nooks in in parallel areas to the pathways could be used for that as well.

D

Great yeah yeah, and I would add too, that I think we'd want to make sure that we have a few. You know two or so spots that are designated around the park that aren't just in the front like in concept day that could be next to the storage shed. It could also be um next to that arched bridge as well, um but I agree with nate's comments that with the cord in place servicing it's all one surface and it makes a much more open and more opportunity for parking.

F

A

You thank you, and just to clarify did your little one. He liked the tire swing. Is that what he was saying.

G

Yeah and it's gone, and there was a zip line and it's gone and he we just want to find out what happened with that.

A

All right: well, one of the concepts, did have a dish swing which is somewhat similar to a tire swing. So we'll definitely note.

G

He'll he'll love anything he'll love the water, I'm I'm not switch. I'm gonna love the water, but he's gonna love. It hey.

A

Good deal um uh christine: are you able to see other hands.

G

Yes, um I'm sorry, if I can't pronounce it, I did on youtube.

J

You nailed it. Thank you kristen good evening and uh thank you nathan and casey cherry. I mean it's exceptional you're doing such a wonderful job. So congratulations. I think I I just have like four quick points. I I wanted to to pass around and bounce back. uh First like my first was about the historic aspect of the neighborhood and I think you nailed it like it's. I think it's really going to blend, and that was something that in the first video I was able to see people express. So congratulations.

J

Let me segue then, to the design part and on the design. um I just have one quick question about the fence. I think someone writes the question that the fence is not up to code and I haven't seen any any any idea for the fence. I know I mean that's just my pure anecdote, but out of my three daughters, we live just across the park. uh Two of them were like three and uh I mean four and two now um they can go through the through the fence, because it's it's wide enough.

J

uh So that's just like a piece of thought about the fence um and really uh all the designs are spectacular, but I wonder if how much thought you put about how robust and low maintenance uh these items are they so appealing new?

J

uh But as uh carla mentioned about the tire, the tire swing was such an appealing uh feature of the park and it's gone now and I so I'm just wondering like any thought about, like the how robust the uh these equipment is going to be. uh I also had a point. Sorry, that's my third and uh point, but um my third point was about water and electricity. Some people requested it I'm just as a neighbor. It's very selfish, but I wonder like how like what would be the type of views like are.

J

We gonna have like open body whose birthday and like uh music or it's just like for like cleaning, and so that was just like an open question here, and the last point was the fourth point and as a taxpayer, I'm very happy with the work you've done, but I'm just thinking like. Should you also like pass the message to the neighborhood because I'm sure, like some options, gonna be more expensive than others and it would be like a miss if you're gonna spend 1.2 million?

J

If you have to spend like a tiny bit more to have something really exceptional, because that piece of equipment is more expensive, should we keep that open? I I mean I'm sure like did you have a fantastic organization like the n-a-a-b-b, the garden club? Obviously the friends of the playground are probably very involved, so I don't want to step on anyone's shoes, but I mean we neighbors.

J

We use it all the time like if there is like, if at the end like to move the needle like you need some help, I think it will be important to put that out there for the neighbors.

J

A

Yeah, no, those are those are all great points, so I'll um I'll. Let cassie address some but uh I'll hit uh the discussion about uh the cost and everything so uh the concepts they're showing will be flushed out with full cost estimates to be within a a budget that will meet the goals, so we're full we're anticipating that you know. Yes, we have a healthy budget, but construction costs are increasing, um and so we we will be utilizing that budget oftentimes.

A

um What we do to ensure that we utilize the budget as best as possible is sometimes we list certain elements as alternates, whereas when we go out to bid because we have to do public bid process, you know we want to make sure it's it's within a a price that can be built and constructed.

A

But then, if there is that kind of above and beyond item you're talking about, sometimes you know that may be on the fence on if we can or can't afford it, we'll list that as an alternate and if we get a favorable bid, then we're able to really kind of maximize that, um and also to note on the fence it's. It's is a ornate metal fence. That's around this one of the things that we do is that's incredibly costly to replace.

A

So one of the things that we've done in the past to make sure they meet up to code is, you know, obviously measuring the spacing distance and making sure we're we're within code. But um you know, and if we're not, we then weld a you know a thin picket that closes that gap to ensure that it is safe. um It allows you to maintain a you know, an attractive nice fence, well uh meeting uh newer codes, since it was first installed and now cassie.

D

A

You uh remember some of the other comments.

D

Yeah, I don't, I don't have a whole lot more to add. I think you covered it. I would I. The only thing I would say is that um we have a short list of play: equipment manufacturers that we do use, because we know that they're tried and true and of really high quality, and so everything that you've seen here is from that approved list in there within those that grouping there's a wide range of options.

D

So I wouldn't say it's it's limiting in any way, but the companies that we do want to work with are tried and true and we would stand behind those products. So in that sense I would I wouldn't worry about quality of product.

A

C

See your comments too yeah. Definitely, that was great.

B

A

Megan's hand up.

B

Yes, you can immute yourself now. I.

A

Was going to say, I see a little guy at megan's, you know on megan's hand up so when.

F

You're here I like the open play.

A

Awesome which all three of them have open play, which one do you like the best.

K

Which one do you like best absolutely.

F

F

A

F

I mean I, I mean c.

K

You like, b and c.

A

No c you, like c okay did. Did I see that your mom posted that you are excited about the water play?

A

Are you excited that there might be water to play in in the park?

A

Maybe maybe not.

K

What's up what's up.

K

Now, all right! Well, it's very well! Thank you! He's.

A

Very excited perfect: do you, uh uh as a parent? Do you wanna have any comments?

A

No, I think she just muted uh you're, muted again.

G

I'll mute her.

K

Okay, hi, sorry about that. um No I I think these are all beautiful ideas and I think the water play ideas is gorgeous. I think that um there's one some someone who mentioned something about the change in elevation and the ball play area, and I think that's an excellent point, because one thing I've noticed is that sometimes, when the schools are using the playground with the older children, sometimes the toddlers, it can be a little bit scary for the toddlers um who were there at the same time who are sort of running it.

K

While the older kids are playing balls, if the ball sort of land right right right by the toddlers that can be problematic and a little bit dangerous for the little kids, so I think having the elevation change where the open play area is there's some barrier between the open play area, where the elementary kids are playing balls um between where they and the toddlers are playing, would be very valuable too.

A

Great good point.

L

B

Hi everyone um again, I certainly would like to echo. I I think these sketches so far. Look really great and you have some some great ideas.

B

I know a couple of teachers from john winthrop school are participating tonight and um I'm the director by the way, um but we did have a chance to to chat- and I know after seeing these plans we'll again kind of sit down and and discuss them a little bit, but a couple of things that you touched upon that, I think, is worth bringing up that um I came to the you know came tonight to potentially keep an ear out for uh one was water play, which I think is sounds like several other people are really excited about it.

B

We had in doing a little bit of research. We had pulled up some photos from the cambridge common um that has some water play tables um that my guess is. It would be seasonal, so someone would come in and turn it on and off. um You know as as needed, um so you know something like that and potentially that could be. um You know used in the off season like rather than in in the winter snow could go in there and they could kind of play.

B

I know that would be very engaging for the kids and, and probably parents would have a tough time tearing them away from any kind of a water feature, so certainly want to put our vote of approval in there and we'd love to hear more a little bit more about the river concept, but the other item that we really liked.

B

The idea of is- and I think you had mentioned it in slide in concept- a was the use of the um it sounded like potentially using um slides and a climbing structure, so you utilize that incline for little ones to climb.

B

We really like that idea, because it's it's great for just gross motor play and to you know, use all their their muscles so using that incline for for a purpose I think, would be really great um and then possibly, I think that's what you had mentioned in terms of the um ample theater area.

B

You know working in some um play opportunities there. I didn't know if, from the from the photo, I can't tell if that is potentially some um like wood decking, potentially there, that there are some photos that we had seen that we had actually think you know using the trees that were there potentially putting some wood decking around the trees in that amphitheater area.

B

So I can't really tell from the image there, um but those were a couple of ideas that that we had had so, but we'll we'll continue to kind of brainstorm and and review review these plans, but again we're we're excited.

A

Great, thank you. um So one thing yes, you're completely correct. uh The water play is a seasonal element. um So keeping in mind uh you know, a water table like you mentioned, could be used multiple times in the year. One of the things, if you notice in these concepts, is uh the one concept b where we do have the water table.

A

We do not have the mulch area play and that's because oftentimes we see that even if you put it on the opposite corner of the park, kids grab it and they it gets there instantly, which is it's awesome together uh for play, not so much for maintenance and and keeping it as a functioning water play. So uh we do kind of substitute kind of what the element of sensory play is for that.

A

um Some of our other parks that we do have runnels in uh when it is not being utilized uh and- and it's not activated for water play- kids- are oftentimes running through it and still engaging with that element. So it's it becomes a usable space all year, long versus you know single single use. So uh I that's one thing to certainly keep in mind. uh Cassie. Do you want to talk about some of the slope and elevation elements.

D

Sure I can go back to that. Just for the visual.

D

So in there's room to do a number of different things and here we're just testing out the options, but it sounds like if it's endorsed then we'll continue to explore it and developing a preferred plan to show you next time. But in this scenario here we're making use of um boulders um poured in place rubber on slope, um climbing, ropes and granite block seating for parents and caregivers and teachers, and so on and so forth and slides as well.

D

So there's many ways to go down and go up either through climbing or sliding or scrambling, and I totally agree that the gross motor skill development in doing those activities is really high and we have elevation to work with in this park. So why not kind of play up that in play value?

D

So I think there's great opportunity here to really build that in and make it awesome here.

A

Great, I think sue uh has her hand up carla.

G

First sorry, she florida hamper I'm good.

A

Oh you're, good carla.

G

Yeah, okay, thank you. Yep.

A

And now sue, do you have a chance.

A

And then after sue asked her question, I'm gonna get to one of the questions in a few of the comments that were asked as well. There you go sue you're good to go all.

L

Right, good um yeah- uh I was involved in this years ago, as you may may know, or may not, um and I think the the strongest impetus that we had at that point, which I think has been carried through, is to keep as much natural material as we can and to keep as much open space as we can, um and uh I hope that we can continue to to do that here.

L

um I wonder if it was was any thought given to leaving the the wall in place. I see a concept c. Does that uh if that is the existing wall, um because I think that level change is very interesting for kids, who live in basically a flat neighborhood and it would be nice to have it explored.

L

The other question I had was about the edge trees. Are those going to be preserved as well? The big ones are okay, that may I had trouble getting on so you may have talked about a lot before I got on, um but those those are my initial comments and uh I know uh sue baker has an excellent group of people who are interested in reviewing this, and hopefully we can all work together on it and make it really terrific.

D

A

Definitely- and I just want to say you know the work you guys did before this is clearly a well-loved park and and has uh uh has a lot of people that support it. So the work you guys did previously definitely shows still and- and I appreciate that yeah.

L

I think I think the the idea of keeping the kids separate, which some other people have talked about is really important here, because you do get an awful lot of kids of very different ages, all in there during the lovely summer spring and fall mornings, um and so I I have. I have a tendency to like the idea of either b or c, because it keeps the kids down down low, uh where they don't get into trouble with the little ones. But that's just a very initial reaction. We'll spend some more time on it.

A

Thank you, thank you, and now I think uh uh sue uh baker now has her hand up christine. Are you able to get her.

G

I

She can admire herself now perfect. Okay, great. Thank you um again. Thank you so much for these great plans. We're really excited- and I think this is one of the most exciting and important things. That's happened to our neighborhood in a long time, so this is wonderful.

I

um I love that you're keeping the tree canopy and the and the good uh robust plants around the edges. I think that's fantastic.

I

I also agree with what we're hearing over and over in that and that I think, maintaining the lower elevation of the open play area is very important so that the older kids, when they're down playing soccer or playing ball, are kind of separated from the younger kids.

I

I do have a question, though, and it's just about the size of the open play area, I'm trying to figure out from the schematics here. Is it going to be about the same size or has it been reduced in size, because I think we want to keep it as large as we possibly can, because it's a it's a really great and important feature, and I know that the schools use it a lot.

I

um I love the idea of water play and I saw your answer nathan that if you do the river, as in concept b, that it kind of self drains, which is great because then you don't have to worry about you know what happens with all the standing water.

I

um So I think that's a really intriguing idea that I hadn't seen before um and then my other comment was. I know you were interested in uh talking to some of the the reps from the schools about their ideas and I had emailed you that the neighborhood association had asked us to form a working group and we're going to meet at the end of the week to kind of review these concepts.

I

And if you would like to set up a meeting and meet with the working group, we have some of our current co-chairs of the the playground, some of the the past and founding members of the playground, as well as a rep from every school on the working group. And we would really welcome the opportunity to work with you on this. And thank you again for everything.

A

Yeah, absolutely that's it's. It's definitely helpful uh to to build off of the knowledge you all already have here, so we definitely would be interested, and I I referenced uh your email and I sent it on to the design team.

A

um So I think when we you know when we're able to meet, we can discuss kind of the impacts on the schools and everything and how that may impact schedule to try and reduce uh impact to the school programs that happen here, but also you know acknowledging that the busiest use of this uh from a resident standpoint is during the summer. So you know looking to see if we can kind of do a fine median of you know as little impact to each group as possible. So that's all that's.

I

Great for discussion and I'm sorry, I had one other question and that was that, had you been able to um discuss anything with the director butters at um at 109.com, I.

A

Was about their concerns, I I called his uh work office that I was able to uh that. I was provided. I did not get a call back, um so I was really hoping. I had it fully prepped that if I saw mel jump on here that we were gonna, you know each stop the meeting immediately and try.

F

H

Troubleshoot to get him.

A

If um would that be.

I

He said we could definitely circle around and talk to him. Also. Yes,.

A

Exactly if anybody can make sure he gets my either my phone number or my email um or you know, if he's comfortable, providing that form of contact to you to share with me.

A

That would be great because you know we definitely want to make sure we're looping in into this one of the things we tried to do was you know- and we mentioned at the beginning, being sensitive- that this park is literally his the edge of his his home um with windows right there at the park, so uh concept a was actually trying to soften that edge, pull it a little bit away from his home to provide uh some buffer.

A

um So I'm curious to see what his his thoughts would be on that as well, so any if anybody can get me in contact with mel I'd appreciate it.

A

um So I'm going to I I don't know if I see any hands right now, so I'm just going to hit a few of the comments we had in the chat. um One was about lighting. I know that came up in the and I know sherry mentioned it earlier too. um That lighting came up in the first meeting. I think there was comments both in favor and against one of the. I think one of the things that we can certainly investigate is the you know, soft lighting, that sherry mentioned more pedestrian scale.

A

um You know not lighting this up, like uh you, know, fenway park, and we can certainly ensure that there's either timers or sensors in that, so it does elongate the play uh in the winter months when it gets darker sooner, but it doesn't become a nuisance. Then it's lit to you, know 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock at night, or anything like that. So we can certainly look into that and kind of investigate how that works into these designs.

A

um And then there was another question from elizabeth about this: the swing elements that we were showing so the swings that are shown there was a couple different options. Some are what we call belt swings which is kind of your traditional uh swing. Then you have your toddler swings, but then we also had one that had uh what's called a dish swing, that's the kind of the newer version of what tire swings were, and you can kind of see just kids pile on to them.

A

um It allows a swing to expand the amount of users and people that can use that swings often take up some of the the most uh play area in parks, and so when you're doing a single belt, it's obviously one kid on that swing versus a dish uh can can definitely expand the amount of uh kids that are using that in that space. um So I'm just curious what people's thoughts are on swings. I know my daughter is very opinionated on them, so I'm sure some of your kids might be as well.

A

So I'm curious to see what some thoughts are on that and I see carla's hand is, is raised hold on carla, you're, still muted.

E

G

Carla, oh I'm sorry, my my comment was actually about the lighting, but I know you've moved on to another question. So do you want me to hold off.

A

Nope nope, you can go for it now.

G

um Sure so you know I live directly behind um on marlborough street directly behind the park and you know. Obviously the idea of it being like lit up at night is kind of a bummer to me um and I don't know of any other parks. I've been looking around that are that are lit up. That said, you know, if that's what the community wants and that's the direction we move in.

G

um I like the idea, better of them being on a timer rather than on a sensor, because then people can go in at 10 o'clock at night. If they're on a sensor and boom, they have lighting.

A

Sorry, just to clarify the sensor is solar oriented, not park user.

G

Okay, so what does that mean? I didn't understand.

A

Based on how much sunlight is out so once the sun goes down, it's a combination of two. So is that the sun goes down the yes, not motion, okay, but even with that that would then have a timer. Then it you know it turns off at six.

G

And the other thing would be that it would look, it would look pretty it would match. You know, maybe a smaller version of the street lighting or something that kind of fits contextually with the neighborhood.

G

So it's not this beautiful space that you, like tack, some you know: fluorescent lights up on poles to shine down on the park um and and that's what I want to share.

D

And so far I did want to um just chime in for a moment, because I realized we didn't address one of sue's questions um about the field size, and I see it was a comment from a few folks in the chat so we're maintaining generally the same dimensions, given the shape and orientation in the different schemes that shift slightly, but I'm totally here that most of you all want, you know, open play open play, and so our intent would be to maximize that as much as possible and we would move forward.

D

You know continuing with that thinking for the preferred plan.

A

And I see uh another question came in uh about the music elements that would be uh than our proposed. I think what we were looking at are um kind of musical chime type type elements. They are not super loud in any way, so um they don't become. You know they don't reverberate through the community, so um it doesn't. I've seen them as we've installed in other parks, and they don't tend to be as nuisance as uh kind of the preconceived notions associated with them are.

D

Yeah I mean, I think if, if folks are interested in music, then we can explore what options there are, because there are some there's. You know the drums and things that could be off the table totally, but we could.

D

um There are some artful, more artful, chimes and things that are a little bit more aesthetically pleasing and our um our play elements as well. So uh we have options to consider. I guess the question here for tonight is more. Is this a play element that we even want to consider and if so then, we'll um dive into it a bit more.

A

And sue, I believe that was your question, so I'm gonna, uh if sue, can on on on mute herself.

M

A

L

M

L

To be a grinch, but I I do think that it's a very close area there very close to the people's back back walls uh and I've seen the chimes. I love them in large, open spaces where people kind of wander by and hit them and they're lovely.

L

But this is going to be a situation where you have a lot of kids coming in going and going and going, and I would assume that they would be going most of the day which would be driving me around the. So uh I would I'd be.

F

Very cautious about.

L

Music, the other question, the other comment I'll go on to the next issue about the the swing I love. Those group swings, I think, they're, absolutely wonderful. They take up an awful lot of space um and I don't know whether I think we need to think about whether we can sacrifice that much space to it. I hope we can, or maybe there's a smaller version of it that could fit in, um but then.

A

Sure, yeah and- and those are those are great points. One thing to consider with those is that we could incorporate them um onto an uh one of the swing sets, so uh those are are rated for five to twelve year olds, so the toddlers obviously shouldn't go on them.

F

A

Don't tell my wife, but my kid goes on them all the time.

F

A

But but it could be that we have two of the toddler swings and then the baby side it, which is when I say bay, that's where the two two swings are within the posts uh post supports. So there is an option that that we replace the two belts with a dish swing and we keep a swing set in in relatively the same size footprint that then it currently has.

H

I

L

A

L

A

Thank you. Thank you, um so I don't see any other hands up. I think at this point, one of the things I would um think would be best uh is if we actually bring the concepts back up and if people can kind of give our design team which of the three um you know general consensus, I don't think we need to open it up for voting, but um just out of these three, obviously we got a lot of feedback about certain elements in each one of them. So we're going to be looking at.

A

You know, taking all of that feedback and incorporating that into one design, um but I'm just curious which one we should uh the community feels we should build off from.

A

So um if anybody just kind of wants to speak to any of the cons, whichever concept they feel uh is most in line with what the community wants but again keep in mind, we will, you know, pick and pull elements from each to incorporate in a final design.

G

E

Has her hand raised.

G

um Can you hear me, I would say, uh b or c I mean they're, all wonderful, um but I keep going back to that concern about the path going around the open play area and um the points that people made about sort of keeping that space a little separate from the toddlers and not having people sort of crossing over where balls might be going um and that's the thing that concerns me about a, um and you know I I think b and c are the ones you know to me that are are most appealing um in terms of you know how the playground's used now um anyway,.

G

Yeah you thanks.

A

Anybody, uh I think I I see jenny.

M

And I yeah thank you. um Well I wanted to chime in because I'm really loving bee as well. I think the water feature is a huge thing for the kids, but also that open play area being recessed, because my daughter is two and it's it's a nice way to contain them as well, in a way because I can sit down for a little and see her while she runs back and forth. So I love how the open play is down.

M

The water feature um a bummer about the sandbox, but I totally get it and as long as we really pick great sensory play toys, I think that could be a wonderful. You know replacement for that so and thank you for all of the thought that's going into this. It's wonderful.

A

Great thank you, so I I see a couple comments in there, so what I want to reiterate is uh you know when I'm asking your opinion on which of these concepts we're not narrowing in.

F

N

A

It's not everything on just that concept and that's it. I just wanna get uh provide with the design team kind of the framework for taking all of the feedback and those elements and starting to put that together in more of a preferred plan and then we'll come back and show that plan, and we can continue to discuss that at the next meeting.

A

So I see counselor bach has her hand up.

E

Yeah, I was wondering um if maybe maybe we could ask sort of so it seems like in a lot of ways what's at stake here between the concepts I mean. Are questions of circulation and then also, I would say, questions of like where parents are going to hang out um and so maybe for people who don't want to pick between the concept. Letters.

E

I'm sort of curious for a little more feedback from the group about that, and- and I also just wanted to clarify the kind of is the is the image of the kind of stage area on the edge of the open play and see um that that would be a likely place where you'd have a lot of sort of parents sitting on the edge. Is that kind of yeah.

D

Absolutely yeah, I think we imagine that, as like the hangout spot for caregivers, while kids are playing.

E

And then you imagine, can you sort of specify where you sort of imagine the hangout spots in a and b being.

D

Sure, um so, in a we're thinking that part of the embankment area is seating for parents, but it would be more in like a granite block scenario, um so a little bit rougher. We have done before, where we actually like put benches on top of granite block. So that's an option, so parents would be right there with their kids at the play zone.

D

The seat wall would be maintained in that one as well, so parents can hang out while their littlest kids are playing at the younger spot um and in the sensory zone as well. We can wrap a seat wall around that edge and parents can sit there or caregivers or teachers, and so on can sit there as well.

D

I think in most um of the elements we're trying to put supervision right at the play in concept b between the swings and the sensory play zone is a seat wall, and then we have spots for benches along the claridin side, um kind of iteratively air every every a few feet, and then at the two to five we aren't showing one, but I think we need to um so. That is a spot where we need to build in some some seating.

E

Got yeah it. I saw tony put something in the chat and it might just be good to get other folks reaction and- um and the other thing I would just say, is I'd love to. I think I know, there's an aim to kind of um have a meeting with the schools anyways, but I know justin um is on from a learning project. I'm just wondering whether there are circulation aspects for the schools and other users. I was thinking even sue about kind of for the community events that we have in the playground like.

E

Where are the tables going to go in each of these um each of these setups, because it is such a? It is such a like heavily used kind of community gathering space, and I guess the sort of current model is sort of closest to c in some ways um in the sense of a path kind of taking you just one way and sort of bifurcating the space but anyways.

E

I mainly wanted to raise that for other people to react to, um and while I am unmuted I will also just express my strong agreement with them was sue that as many repurposing as many of the sort of natural things as possible. I I really think is important to the feel of the playground, so.

A

Hi great those are good points and, and certainly things we should keep in mind and and and again I you know, I open uh and appreciate any feedback people have on what type of circulation hand gathering they feel is important to them. I I do see pete's hand up, but then I do want to acknowledge that margaret in the chat mentioned, uh she can't get her hand up, but she she'll we'll call on her next.

N

Thanks nathan thanks everybody, uh my name is pete zetlin and I work at kingsley montessori school down the street, and so we typically use this uh for recess time during the school day and a little bit during the summer with our summer program, but obviously that's going to be a little bit different this year. So these look great. Thank you for sharing these. um You know, I I put the question I you know. I guess I wonder.

N

Obviously the the neighbors feelings um with the open play. Our kids are, you know the kids who use it. The most at our school are first through sixth grade, so six to 12, roughly um and the field gets used a lot as sort of like a soccer ball thrown. So you know, I always feel bad for those neighbors, because balls are always like hitting off the side of their house.

N

um So I'd love to hear from them, and I wonder you know if there was a big push of the the field not being on that side. Are the other concepts movable at all? Like so say, people are married to the idea of concept c, but the field doesn't work next to the house. Is there? Is there ability to move that like move the five to 12 with the open play or the sort of situated the way they are.

D

So um these concepts are all sort of I had outlined it or laid it out initially to say think of all the concepts as almost like um ingredients in a recipe and that we're taking. We want to hear what you all like through the three and we'll take elements of each and try to mesh them together to make a preferred plan.

D

um So that's next meeting and to me it feels like the idea of be as like a starting point, makes sense and then play up the open play, make sure parents and caregivers and supervisors are at play um work in the river. Those are the things I'm hearing flat and clear, maintain circulation and some other notes I'm taking too on some of the more specific items.

D

But um that's sort of the approach that we're taking is that it's we're not tied to the orientation necessarily on each of these, but we're more testing out the range of options.

N

Great. Thank you so much.

A

Thanks now, I think uh uh margaret yeah.

O

Can you hear me all right? Yes,.

A

O

um I couldn't figure out how to raise the little blue hand.

A

That's all right totally fine. We got you.

O

I think the first uh concept- a is the most problematic to me, partially because of how the change in grade is handled in the front and also the the path and everything that people have said before about separating that play area from the other. The more younger play areas. So to me, keeping the open play area at a lower grade is very important, and I think the concept c is the closest to what we have now in terms of the actual layout because of the retention of the stone retaining wall.

O

In the front, it's unclear to me exactly how this amphitheater version would go from the grade at the sidewalk to the grade at the open play area in concept b.

O

So it also opens it up visually and it doesn't really separate its activity from the rest of the playground um in concept c, in terms of maintaining some of the materials that are there, and I know you showed that the vision cassie of the log sort of retaining thing around the up upper edge of the mound area as a potential seating thing that didn't really look very inviting to me to sit on. So you might want to it's not as inviting as this as the granite wall. That's there now.

O

uh My other question is, and you didn't really talk anything about this is the landscaping um and I noticed in every version, there's look you're, showing significant planting around the entire perimeter of the playground, and did you anticipate those to be in raised beds or at grade as shrub plantings and where there are trees in the playground? And there are some particularly at the alley- edge, big trees that are in mulch beds?

O

Are you going to retain the mulch beds, because I know you've been talking about the problem of mulch, especially if there's a water feature- and I think water features are so fantastic, but I think we have to remember that we couldn't even keep the the drinking fountain operating in this playground.

O

So it's really um a maintenance issue and also what it looks like and how it's used when it's not operational for six months of the year, which is essentially what happens when the water gets turned off so that I know people really love that and it would be wonderful to try and figure out a way to do that. But it isn't. It is an issue. My other question is the alley access.

O

um It looks to me in all three of these that that's maintained in the same fashion that it is now which is probably really important for maintenance, um but it would be a locked gate, I'm assuming it wouldn't be an uh openable gate.

O

So I guess the landscaping questions are are ones that you you haven't really talked about a little bit. Thank you.

D

I can handle that one name if you want so the short answer is that we haven't gotten there yet the we know that we want planting and we know there's planting there, that's hardy, and we heard you loud and clear at the last meeting that it's you've really gone through the iterations of finding planting that works and is hardy and stands up to kids running through it, and so we um we need to dive into it in our next iteration and really understand what um what that looks like how it's held held in what the edge conditions are, all the things that you raised, um what the treatment is um mulch-wise and what that means from a maintenance and play perspective.

D

So um we we are showing a quite a bit of planting as you observed- and this is great we need to. We need to just get a better. We need to take more time to really get into that and study. It.

A

Yeah and I and again just to echo that we'll we'll build on ural's knowledge there. I know in the first meeting um there was a lot of talk about cycling through plants that did well and didn't do well. So we're not going to try and reinvent the wheel in any way we're going to rely on the knowledge that you all bring to the table your experience on the park and make sure that we work with you to ensure that we have successful planting um in regards to the maintenance gate.

A

Yes, that that the intent and based on feedback in that first meeting is that that is still a maintained access. But it will be locked, so it will not be uh utilized for the public um and then it sounds like a lot of people are in favor of the water play so for our next meeting. Cassie and her team will work out a much more flushed out uh uh detail in that. So we can actually look at kind of what they're proposing and and how that reflects uh on what the community wants.

A

Those those were all great comments, though,.

O

I also think when you get down into the fine fine details of this, there should be a community bulletin board which there is now in the playground and that should have a place to somewhere and yep apply. Sure.

A

Those are, those are definitely we'll take note of that.

O

And it sounds to me like you're, intending to leave the mound, as it is with the learning project stones there and the pear tree planting as it is. It doesn't look any different in any of these.

A

Yeah just because they, you know they're well established trees, so we obviously want to do as little disturbance to those as possible. Okay,.

A

And I see justin has his hand up now. I don't think.

E

Justin you're good to go.

A

P

um I think I'll be outnumbered in this one, but I'm not a huge fan of the water feature. um I do want to say that, um because just because of the seasonality of it and it takes up space- and so you know like sue said- maximizing space is pretty crucial. um Year-Round space is pretty crucial, so I don't know, I think, maybe once we get a little more information on what it looks like and how much space it'll take up.

P

I think that will be helpful to better gauge how how beneficial that space will be um just commenting on kenzie's question about circulation and how much space there is for adults as well. I think it's just really important to keep in mind that it's we don't want to fill the entire space. We want to make sure that there is space for community events and for parents just kind of to mingle throughout the space and that we're not filling the space with with play, play, structures and also sensory features.

P

One question I had around that was, I guess it's related to margaret's question around landscaping is how much of this space is kind of that poured rubber and and the turf and how much of it is just natural dirt. Is there any natural dirt anywhere?

P

I know you said we can't have sandboxes, um but where do you see, um I guess the natural services? If any.

D

um So I can go concept by concept, um so the concept, a and c are both showing a mulch area in the sensory play zones so that, like deeper brown, color is mulch.

D

um So the rest of the play areas are shown as poured in place rubber right now um and then the the brighter green is the synthetic turf. um The deeper green in each scheme is indicating a planting area or an understory planting, so like low shrubs and ground covers so across the three. um It's essentially like a perimeter of planting and then that central core mix of uh haven't fully worked out. You know what the learning, how the learning project stones are integrated with, with planting potentially or not so hopefully, that clarifies.

P

Okay, thank you um and then my only other comment was on the open play space. I think not only is. um Is it important to have it in the lower space because of the balls that are flying, but also to be away from the street?

P

So I know that is a problem for the neighbors, but even as it is, we do have balls flying over the wall, sometimes over the fence. It's very rare, but I could see that if, if the field was anywhere near the fence, they would be flying over the fence. Pretty often that was it and thank you.

A

It's uh good insight on the on the balls, and- and so I appreciate that um I so I see a couple comments. um I thought in our first communion there was general consensus on on not having the um maintenance gate become a secondary entrance. I know there were some concerns that again, as as as a usable entrance for the public, um with it being an alley and one more location that parents have to just keep their an eye on their kids uh escaping so there's a few comments just about uh you know the safety aspect.

A

Of that one thing we were trying to do is maintain visual. You know uh all the way around the park uh to reduce some of the safety concerns of that there was a comment about a panic, potentially incorporating a panic bar on that gate. um We can certainly look into that. I can say a lot of times. I've seen them not be successful, um long term because again, they're out in the weather, and so typically panic bars.

E

Are an interior.

A

Element that when they are outside, they sometimes can become problematic. um I know there's uh in in this latch at the the main gate here also uh is definitely in need of repair.

A

So one option is adding you know the actual latch to this much higher, so that only you know, only a a parent or an adult would be able to actually use it. So you it would reduce the impact of uh or the potential of kids utilizing it. I'm just curious what uh kind of the community's impact, because, obviously you guys have experience with kids in the space. um What the thoughts are about that and.

F

I want to be cognizant when we.

A

Are getting close to the end here, so um you know if, for whatever reason you weren't able to get your comments or you have additional feedback, certainly can send uh send additional comments to me as well.

A

And I see sue baker has her hand up and then carla.

I

Okay, um thank you yeah. I just wanted to comment on the on the back gate. When we had, we did have several requests from the schools about uh having access to get out in case of an emergency, and we had talked about putting in something you know way high up so that it would hopefully not be accessible to kids so that, in case of emergency, a grown-up could open the back gate and get people out safely.

I

And then my question was about: um oh the poured rubber surface. If you did the the open play area in the in the current location, where it is now, we've had several issues with drainage in that area. So if we switched it from the mulch to the to the poured rubber um does that have drainage issues or you know what? What kind? What kind of thing could we expect when there's heavy rains, because right now you know when it rains really heavily there?

I

We just get a giant puddle there and it's really annoying and then the kids can't play there. So I just didn't know if, if the poured rubber would be a better alternative for that play area or not, thank you.

D

I could take that one um so for open play, we're um thinking about synthetic turf actually and um for all of the areas that have uh poured in place rubber. We do include under drainage under it and the same would go for the synthetic turf. So the intention is to correct the drainage issues that persist out there now um through through these improvements.

I

Fabulous. Thank you.

A

And I see counselor bach has a couple comments just about uh the possibility of of the the back gate, maybe only opening from one side as a method of of egress there. So I think we'll we'll investigate some of the options there and potentially bring that to the next meeting to discuss on you know. How can we ensure that it is secure, but- and you know again, during an emergency- uh it's usable for for anybody that may need it. So we'll we'll investigate that see what kind of options uh there are.

A

Great and I think carla had her hand up.

G

Yeah, actually, I think someone just commented um perhaps combining the suggestions with an emergency exit only sign. I don't think parents are going to naturally want to come in and out that way, because they can't stay on the sidewalk. There's like a big um street light there, so they have to actually like go out into the alley and the sidewalk is at an angle.

G

So it's not a natural place where I think it's easy to come in and out, but nonetheless um it has to open in the event of an emergency, and I like the idea of a sign, you know just indicating it's an emergency exit only. I think that those two things um are important.

G

You know, I think it's definitely a workable solution. Sure.

A

All right: well, I don't see any other hands up and I I see that we have uh past 7 30.. I appreciate everybody taking your time tonight and and providing feedback, definitely appreciate that, um as cassie mentioned, we're going to uh really kind of sit down and go back over the feedback that we've gained and then we're going to look to be scheduling.

A

A third meeting that we're going to present an option that we feel combines a lot of that feedback and then we'll be looking uh to get your feedback to ensure we are all on the same page and and uh going in the right direction. So look uh for that to be. um You know that meeting typically happens within you know, four to five weeks. um This meeting, as I mentioned, will be, is being recorded, so this will be posted on the project website.

A

So please share that with anybody that couldn't attend, um and we will also be posting uh written notes for that. My uh contact is on the project website and so uh definitely be sure to send any feedback or other comments that we weren't able to get to tonight or if you didn't want to speak for whatever reason and please anybody that has mel's contact, if you can get it to me or get mail in contact with me uh any way possible, because my next option is knocking on his door.

A

So uh we're definitely gonna gonna get him involved in this, though. So. Thank you for coming and I appreciate all the feedback.

G

Thanks a lot, thank you. Everyone.