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From YouTube: July 13, 2022 - Rebuilding Better Workshop #2: Materials and Equipment for a Resilient Rebuild
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A
B
C
E
E
G
B
Good
evening,
everyone
thank
you
for
joining
us.
My
name
is
kayla
bentzel
and
I'm
the
sustainability
coordinator
with
the
city
of
lewisville,
I'm
here
tonight
with
alyssa
bogan
over
here
in
the
corner.
Alyssa
is
the
sustainability
analyst
with
this
town
of
superior,
and
this
is
a
joint
effort
with
also
boulder
county.
B
That
are
here
from
boulder
county
who
will
introduce
in
just
a
minute.
This
is
the
second
workshop
of
three
scheduled
currently
in
the
rebuilding
better
workshop
series,
and
we
do
have
information
here
tonight
from
workshop
one,
if
anyone's
interested
as
you
all
walked
in
and
for
those
that
are
with
us
on
zoom.
You
should
have
received
the
workshop
handout
this
afternoon
and
for
those
of
you
that
are
in
person,
you
also
have
a
copy
of
that.
B
So
here's
a
look
at
our
agenda
tonight.
As
you
can
see,
we
have
a
really
packed
agenda.
We
have
quite
a
few
speakers
actually
11
different
speakers
tonight,
so
lots
lots
of
information,
and
so
we
are
covering
a
wide
variety
of
topics.
We're
kind
of
splitting
up
the
agenda
tonight
into
two
different
sections.
So
we'll
start
with
rebates
and
incentives,
then
we'll
talk
about
induction
cooking,
then
we'll
take
a
break
q
a
so.
B
If
you
have
questions
about
rebates
incentives,
anything
like
that
or
induction
that'll
be
in
the
first
break
for
questions
and
we'll
also
make
sure
to
answer
questions
from
our
virtual
attendees
as
well.
Alyssa
is
monitoring
our
zoom
over
in
the
corner
and
then
we'll
move
into
the
second
portion
of
the
agenda,
which
is
heat,
pumps
and
we'll
bring
up
a
panel
of
experts
that
will
answer
questions
about
heat
pumps
and
then
we'll
have
some
additional
time
at
the
end.
B
B
B
Like
I
mentioned,
this
is
a
hybrid
meeting,
and
so
we
are
monitoring
the
chat
as
well,
so
we'll
be
kind
of
speaking
for
the
virtual
attendees
throughout
the
night,
and
I
did
want
to
mention
again
the
comment
card,
so
we
should
have.
You
should
have
all
gotten
a
paper
comment
card.
As
you
came
in,
there
is
also
a
virtual
comment
card
if
you
would
prefer
to
fill
one
out
that
way
and
all
of
the
people
on
soon
should
have
just
seen
that
link
come
through
on
the
zoom
chat.
B
I
think
that's
everything
for
our
introduction.
We
do
have
drinks
available
in
the
back.
So
if
you're
thirsty,
we
have
coffee
tea
and
water
available
and
we
will
get
going
with
our
presentations.
B
Our
speakers
chapter,
two
of
the
rebuilding
better
website,
is
building
a
resilient
home,
and
so
this
talks
about
firewise
building
and
there
has
been
some
great
webinars
that
have
come
out
recently
from
the
colorado.
B
B
So
I'd
like
to
welcome
rob
buchanan
rob
is
the
portfolio
product
manager
for
excel
energy,
he'll,
be
speaking
to
you
about
the
excel
energy
rebates
and
incentives
for
rebuilding.
Then
we
have
christine
berg
after
that
from
the
colorado
energy
office.
She's,
a
senior
policy
advisor
she'll,
be
speaking
about
the
colorado
energy
office
funding
and
then,
after
that,
we
have
rick,
garcia
and
dave
bowman
here
from
the
colorado
department
of
local
affairs.
I
B
J
Thank
you
everybody
glad
to
be
here
tonight.
My
name
is
rob
residential
new
construction
product
manager
for
excel
energy.
So
I'm
going
to
actually
turn
my
head
because
of
the
monitor
up
here.
So
this
is
a
list
of
our
incentives
for
rebuilding
homes.
These
are
live
during
market.
If
we
had
to
pay
one
today,
we
could
but
you'll
notice,
there's
five
tiers
here.
J
The
first
here
is
for
homes
that
are
built
to
built
in
built-in
places
where
iecc
2021,
which
was
recently
adopted
by
both
communities
where
iecc
2021
is
enforced,
and
you
build
with
that
code.
All
you
have
to
do
is
to
make
it
a
code
compliant
home
and
you
will
receive
an
incentive
of
7
500
from
us
when
the
home
is
finished.
J
If
you
exercise
that
opt-out,
even
if
you
build
iecc21
and
only
21
the
the
7500
rebate,
is
not
going
to
be
available
to
you,
and
so
that's
that's
the
first
threshold
we
want
to
make
sure
that
iecc
2021
is
is
required
where
it's
built.
J
Above
that
is
for
energy,
star
version
3.2,
the
department
of
energy
recently
published
a
new
energy
star
standard
that
is
discretely
better
than
the
old
version
it's
about,
and
and
so,
if
you
build,
if
you
build
find
a
builder
who
is
going
to
build
that
admission,
star
version
3.2
and
we
get
documentation
of
that-
that's
a
ten
thousand
dollar
incentive.
So
we
will.
J
When
the
house
is
finished,
we
get
all
the
documentation
we'll
give
you
10
grand
and
what's
what's
unique
about
all
these
advanced
performance
tiers
beyond
code
compliance
is
even
if
you
opt
out
of
the
iecc
2021
and
achieve
one
of
these
higher
performance
standards.
J
You
are
going
to
be
eligible
for
the
advanced
performance
tiers
beyond
energy.
Star
version
3.2
we're
stepping
into
the
next
one.
Is
the
department
of
energy's
zero
energy
ready
standard,
that's
another
one,
that's
been
recently
updated
and
as
that,
if
that's
the
standard
that
that
the
houses
meet,
that
is
a
rebate
of
twelve
thousand
five
hundred
dollars,
and
so
that's
where
we're
that's,
where
we're
headed
with
this
one,
that
one
is
based
on
energy.
Star
version
3.2
and
has
some
additional
requirements.
J
Has
some
some
additional
requirements
around
it
related
to
improving
indoor
air
quality
and
making
sure
that
the
home
is
ready
for
pv
pv
is
not
like
rooftop
solar
is
not
required
for
any
of
these
standards
so,
but
for
the
zero
energy
ready,
it
has
to
be
ready
for
ready
for
rooftop
pv
at
some
point
in
the
future.
J
The
next
standard
is
a
brand
new
one
from
the
department
of
energy
from
energy
star.
It's
called
energy
star
next
gen
and
that
one
was
introduced
last
october
and
we
moved
quickly
to
become,
I
think,
we're
the
first
utility
in
the
united
states
to
offer
incentives
for
meeting
that
standard.
The
requirements
around
that
again
it's
based
on
energy,
star
version
3.2,
but
there
are
four
components
to
that
that
you
have
to
meet
to
go
for
to
achieve
that.
J
The
first
is
your
primary
heating
system
has
to
be
an
air
source
heat
pump.
The
second
is
that
you
need
to
have
a
heat
pump
water
heater.
The
third
is
induction
cooktop,
which
we're
going
to
see
a
demonstration
on
later
today
and
then
the
fourth
requirement
is
for
ev
charging
in
in
the
garage.
J
If
you
meet
those
standards
again
at
the
end
of
the
day,
when
we
get,
we
get
all
the
documentation
that
everything's
been
met,
seventeen
thousand
five
hundred
dollars
and
then
the
the
last
standard
that
we're
asking
for
that,
we're
looking
for
is
is
passive
house.
That
is
a.
There
are
two
governing
bodies
within
passivhaus.
We
accept
either
of
them.
One
of
them
is
fies
p-h-I-u-s,
and
that
is
the
passive
house
institute
of
the
united
states
and
the
other
is
phi.
J
The
passive
house
institute.
They
made
it
really
easy
for
us,
the
if
you
meet
either
of
those
standards,
if
you
get
it
designed
and
built
to
those
standards,
and
you
get
to
a
point,
the
historically,
the
actual
certification
has
been
very
challenging
to
get
for
either
of
those.
But
if
we
get
we've
worked
directly
with
fiesta
and
phi
to
define
kind
of
an
earlier
hurdle
that
we're
confident
everybody's
going
that
we're
confident
that
it'll
qualify
or
achieve
certification.
J
If
we
get
the
documentation
of
that,
that's
thirty,
seven
thousand
five
hundred
dollars,
and
so
that's
the
the
dollar
value
we're
putting
out.
There
is
reflective
of
the
difficulty
of
getting
that
standard.
I
wanna
make
that
really
really
clear.
Okay,
we
can
go
to
the
next
slide.
J
The
process
is
to
you
know,
pick
a
pick.
A
performance
standard
and
a
review
amount
that
you
that
you're
interested
in
achieving
and
find
a
builder
who's
willing
to
do
that.
We're
still
working
on
putting
together
a
we're
working
on
branching
out
our
builders,
making
sure
we
can
find
enough
to
make
sure
to
meet
the
demand
for
all
the
houses
we
have
pre-qualification.
J
We
do
have
we
just
finished
a
registration
claim
form
the
other
day.
I
brought
copies
of
that
with
us
today.
I
would.
The
the
registration
form
is
something
you
I'd,
encourage
you
to
work
on
with
with
your
builder
and
their
raider
or,
if
you're
going
past
the
house
with
a
consultant
to
get
us
ready
to
provide
the
documentation
around
that
registration.
J
As
far
as
when
you
should
register
the
registration
probably
like
get,
I
would
encourage
you
to
get
to
get
to
a
point
where
you're
pretty
settled
on
your
home's
design
and
the
standard
you
want
to
meet
before
you
submit
that
that
that's
just
me
encouraging
you
to
make
sure
that
we're
that
what
you
want
is
what
we're
going
to
deliver,
and
so
that's
strongly
encouraged
the
pre-qualification.
The
registration
is
optional,
but
strongly
encouraged
for
every
standard,
except
for
passive
house.
J
We
are
requiring
it
for
passive
house
because
again
we
really
don't
want
people
to
be
up
to
be
disappointed
if
they
try
to
achieve
that
standard
and
then
fail
to
because
it
is
different
and
then
the
when
the
house
is
complete,
the
submission,
the
aggregation
of
all
the
documents
and
the
submissions
should
be
handled
on
the
builder's
side.
In
my
mind,
ideally
at
the
end,
when
your
home
is
finished,
you
sign
your
claim
form.
All
the
documentation
is
already
there
give
it
back
to
your
bill.
J
Give
back
to
your
raider
they'll,
give
it
to
us
and
we'll
be
able
to
pay
out,
and
so
we're
working
on.
Getting
that.
That
piece
finalized
as
well
and
then
the
we've
I've
had
a
lot
of
questions
come
back
to
us.
The
first
is
that
the
rebates
do
not
stack
if
you
go.
If
you
elect
to
find
a
builder
who's
going
to
do.
Fies
theos
requires
energy,
so
3.2
and
zero
energy
ready
as
part
of
their
standard.
J
So
you
do
not
get
ten
thousand
plus
seventeen
thousand
plus
thirty
seven
thousand
you
you,
you
get
the
height.
The
the
rebate
will
be
reflective
of
the
highest
standard
achievement.
Okay,
the
other
thing
is.
We
want
to
be
really
clear
that
rebates
may
not
cover
the
full
cost
of
others.
We
didn't
design
them
that
way.
We've
I've
had
a
conversation
with
a
homeowner
two
weeks
ago
now,
and
we
want
to
be
really
clear
that
we
we
don't
if
you
find
a
builder
for
whom
that
covers
the
full
cost.
J
Congratulations,
but
we
didn't
design
it
to
do
that,
and
we
want
to
make
sure
we're
really
clear
that
that
that
shouldn't
necessarily
be
an
expectation
and
then
the
last
one-
and
I've
mentioned
this.
A
couple
of
on
a
couple
of
occasions
is
that
phi
and
fies
they
can't
be
met
without
additional
designer
and
builder
training.
J
J
So
you
can
find
most
of
these
are
going
to
link
to
information
that
bylar
is
going
to
be
relevant
for
for
your
builders,
your
raiders,
but
it's
a
resource
for
you
to
be
able
to
for
for
you
to
put
it
on
the
table
and
say
these
are
the
boxes
that
you
need
to
check
to
build
the
house
that
I
want.
So
that's
what
these
that's!
What
these
links
are
all
for
and
I'll
hand
out
to
christine
for
having
some
water
real,
quick.
I
Sorry,
I'm
gonna
jump
in
real,
quick,
I'm
robbie
schwarz,
I'm
the
new
home
building
advisor
for
boulder
county
and
I
just
wanted
to
add
two
things
to
what
rob
said.
One.
If
you
have
questions
about
what
these
programs
actually
mean.
You
can
reach
out
to
me
and
to
rob
mentioned
that
it's
it's
hard
to
meet
some
of
these
above
code
programs,
but
if
you're
shooting
for
those
above
code
programs,
you're
you're
going
to
already
meet
the
2021
icc.
I
So
you
should
be
permitting
under
the
2021
iacc
to
lock
at
least
lock
in
the
potential
of
getting
that
7
500.
Then
you're
shooting
to
get
the
other
incentive
payment
there.
But
but
you
want
to
make
sure
that
you
permit
under
that
that
that
code,
in
order
to
at
least
fall
back
and
potentially
get
that
reader.
J
L
That
thank
you
thank
you
for
holding
off
for
questions
till
later
sorry,
kayla
yeah,
I'm
christine
I'm
christy,
burke,
I'm
from
the
colorado
energy
office.
I
just
live
down
the
road
in
lafayette.
It's
really
been
such
a
pleasure
to
be
able
to
figure
out
a
way
for
the
state
to
help
support
you
in
your
rebuilding,
particularly
this
week.
I'm
going
to
steal
this
term,
it's
like
building
back,
but
it's
also
building
forward
and
making
sure
that
you
have
homes
that
really
can
be
climate
ready.
L
So
we
did
pass
the
colorado
disaster,
preparedness
and
recovery
resources
built
very
wordy
and
you're
going
to
hear
more
about
the
second
component
of
that
bill
from
the
department
of
local
affairs
tonight,
but
it
does
cover
all
state
declared
disasters
from
2018
and
into
the
future.
We
received
20
million
dollars.
So
that's
wonderful
and
there'll
be
additional
programs
coming
from
our
office.
L
A
L
Rental
reviews-
that's
kind
of
a
distinction
there
that
are
built
to
the
2021
international
energy
conservation
code
and
or
older
counties
build
smart
standards,
so
whatever
the
current
building
standard
is
and
neeps.
So
these
are
there's
three
requirements,
so
I
didn't
want
to
purse
this
out
got
to
do
these
three
things
which,
I
must
say
is
very
similar
to
the
excel
rebate
for
energy,
smart,
energy,
star,
sorry,
new
certification,
so
those
three
components
are
the
same.
L
Essentially
so
an
electric
resistant
or
induction
stove
heat
pump,
water
heater
and
a
neat
certified
cold
climate
heat
pump.
L
We
want
to
make
sure
that
the
heat
pump
you're
putting
in
is
the
most
efficient
and
makes
the
most
sense
for
the
climate,
and
you
don't
have
to
think
about
backup
right
so
can
be
combined
with
any
excel
rebates,
which
is
exciting,
we're
working
on
the
the
application
and
then
just
as
an
addendum
incidental
gas
use
is
permitted.
We're
not
saying
you
can't
have
any
natural
gas.
We
understand,
you
might
want
a
gas
stove.
Excuse
me
a
gas
fireplace
or
an
outdoor
grill.
L
We
understand
that
and
that's
incidental
use
those
don't
use
a
lot
of
energy
right,
so
they're
kind
of
seasonal,
so
that's
kind
of
where
the
program's
at
we
are
going
to
work
to
get
the
application
live
and
we're
working
very
much
in
partnership
with
the
jurisdictions
to
ensure
that
that's
a
again
a
streamlined
process.
Imagining
that
you
might
go
into
the
permitting
office
and
you'll
just
fill
out
one
quick
form
that
says:
yes,
I'm
going
to
do
these
things
and
we'll
get
that
check
after
your
house
is
built.
G
L
This
is
the
beauty
of
this
because
you
can
actually
use
the
excel
rebate
along
with
this,
for
this
particular
the,
like,
I
said,
the
energy
star
new
certification
piece:
that's
17,
500
in
addition
to
the
10
000,
it's
27
500,
I'm
good
at
math.
So
that's
what
I
think
a
beautiful
incentive
for
you
to
think
about,
and
certainly
as
we
develop
a
program.
Let
me
know
if
you
have
questions
but
we're
excited
and,
like
I
said,
there's
there's
other
funding
that
we
can
be
looking
at
as
well.
L
So
if
you
have
other
ideas
about
things
that
for
high
performance
homes
that
make
sense
that
the
state
can
help
support,
please
let
me
know-
and
I
think
that's
it
hand
it
over
to
caleb.
B
F
Skl
indicated
I
am
the
executive
director
of
the
college
of
department,
local
affairs.
Our
role
is
working
with
local
governments
throughout
the
state.
One
of
those
many
roles
is
working
with
local
governments.
Post-Natural
disasters
we've
worked
with
many
post-fire
floods,
tornadoes
in
the
natural
disaster
space.
I've
been
here
before
I'll,
make
it
a
short
presentation.
Dave
bellman
is
actually
a
program
manager.
F
We've
been
involved
with
the
marshall
fire
response
and
recovery
since,
since
the
time
it's
impacted,
all
of
you,
as
christine
burke
just
indicated,
we've
been
part
of
the
senate
bill
206
legislative
process,
there's
a
piece
of
the
bill
that
is
related
to
resiliency
and
rebuilding,
and
that's
the
portion
that
dave
is
going
to
talk
about
tonight.
In
fact,
just
this
morning,
we
released
a
press
release
outlining
how
this
program
is
intended
to
work
to
benefit
the
households
that
they've
impacted,
primarily
those
who
have
been
under
insured
or
need
additional
resources
to
build
that.
E
Here
so
I
can
kind
of
see
the
slides,
but
I'm
going
to
start
by
giving
an
overview.
This
first
slide
is
about
the
grant
portion,
but
there's
a
grant
portion,
there's
a
loan
proportion
and
we're
actually
going
to
be
coordinating
with
the
colorado
energy
office
and
the
community
foundation.
The
idea
is
that
all
of
these
resources
will
be
available
at
one
stop,
so
you
may
be
eligible
for
some
of
them
and
interested
in
some
of
them
and
not
others.
E
So
none
of
these
grant
requirements
limits
you
from
accessing
the
ten
thousand
dollars
from
the
colorado
energy
office
or
limits
you
from
requesting
an
additional
loan,
and
we
also
recognize
that
you
know
we
only
have
15
million
dollars
for
the
state
funding
we're
going
to
leverage
that
with
some
federal
funding
we
know
that's
not
enough
to
fill
out
the
gap.
So
really,
the
purpose
of
this
money
is
is
twofold:
one
it's
for
those
that
are
kind
of
on
the
fence
and
they're
going.
E
Can
I
rebuild,
or
do
I
have
to
to
back
up
and
sell
my
life,
we're
hoping
to
incentivize
as
many
people
as
we
can
to
get
those
extra
resources
and
make
that
decision
to
stay
and
rebuild
their
home
and
then
for
some
of
you,
this
will
just
be
a
little
extra
relief
if
you
can
either
get
a
grant
or
a
loan
and
make
it
easier
to
to
do
that.
Rebuilding
and
not
have
to
you
know,
take
as
much
of
the
savings
as
well.
E
E
So
we
have
five
different
levels
depending
on
your
area
needed
income
and
if
you're
at
the
80
of
the
median
income,
then
you're
eligible
for
a
full,
fifty
thousand
dollar
grant
and
then
it
sort
of
tapers
off
from
there.
100
percent
gets
75
of
the
grant
if
you're
120,
which
means
you're
over
the
median
income
for
boulder
county,
then
you're
down
to
50
and
then,
if
you're,
between
120
and
150
percent,
then
you
get
25
if
you're
150
percent
or
over
you're
not
eligible
for
the
grants.
E
However,
everybody
is
eligible
for
the
while
and
that
leads
to
the
next
slide,
so
the
rebuilding
run
is
available
all
income
levels.
We
recognize
looking
at
the
sba
data
that
a
lot
of
people
either
didn't
apply
or
they
were
denied
or
they
didn't
complete
the
process.
E
So
this
loan
instrument
is
very
similar
to
the
sba
that
it's
about
1.5
interest
over
30
years,
so
it's
much
more
favorable
than
you
can
get
on
the
market,
and
so
you
can
access
those
loan
funds
to
help
you
in
your
rebuilding.
E
This
one
is,
of
course,
captain
at
50
000,
and
that's
primarily,
you
know.
If
you
take
15
million
dollars
and
divide
it
by
the
number
of
people
impacted,
we
just
you
know:
don't
have
the
money
to
fill
that
entire
gap,
some
additional
eligibility
considerations.
This
is
not
just
for
marshall
fire.
The
way
the
bill
was
written
is
for
every
disaster
between
2018
going
forward,
we're
hoping
that
those
funds
will
revolve
so
there's
future
disasters.
E
It
is
not
available
for
second
homes,
vacation
homes
and
at
this
point,
because
of
the
limited
resources,
we're
not
opening
it
up
to
landlords
at
this
point
in
time,
if
we
don't
have
a
lot
of
use
of
these
funds
or
falls
back,
we
may
open
it
up
later,
depending
on
the
demands
are
available.
E
E
With
this
information
as
people
make
decisions,
it's
not
too
different
from
the
energy
office
idea,
except
instead
of
energy
efficiency,
we're
talking
about
mitigation,
fire
resistant
materials,
vents
windows,
those
sorts
of
things
and
we're
modeling
it
off
a
program
that
oregon
has
where
they
essentially
have
roughly
6
000
worth
of
eligible
incentives
based
on
a
kind
of
a
menu.
So,
if
you're
thinking
about
well,
I
want
to
do
those
double
paying
windows,
but
I
can't
afford
it.
E
This
might
give
you
the
extra
incentive
to
help
you.
You
know,
do
that
extra
fire
resistance
measure,
but
you'll
see
on
here
that
we
do
have
a
link
to
the
website,
which
has
frequently
asked
questions
of
an
overview.
E
And
again,
I
want
to
emphasize
that
we
are
trying
to
make
this
as
easy
as
you
as
possible
and
have
sort
of
one
door
where
you
can
apply
for
all
of
these
funds,
including
the
grant
the
loan,
the
community
foundation
dollars
the
ceo
dollars
and
we'll
be
putting
information
out
soon
and
I'm
sure
everybody
wants
to
know
the
timeline
over
the
next
month
or
so
we're
going
to
be
finalizing
contracts,
and
we
expect
to
have
all
the
the
application
available
in
august
and
september
and
we're
expecting
the
funds
to
start
to
be
available
september
october.
E
G
B
B
She
was
one
of
our
speakers
from
our
last
workshop,
so
you
might
remember
her
from
our
june
workshop
and
andrew
four
lines
he's
the
culinary
director
from
chef
af
consulting,
and
so
he
will
be
rachel
b,
starting
us
out,
giving
us
an
overview
of
induction,
cooking
and
talk
about
boulder
county's
program,
and
then
andrew
will
be
showing
us
what
an
induction
cooktop
can
do.
So
with
that,
I
will
turn
it
over
to
rachel.
E
L
L
We
have
affordable
induction
lending
program
that
you
can
sign
up
for
to
try
it.
I
will
admit:
portable
induction
cooktops
are
slightly
different
than
what
you're
going
to
have
installed
in
your
home,
but
it's
a
great
way
to
see
how
it
works
and
really
see
how
it
compares
to
natural
gas,
smoking
and
really
I've
got
materials
back
there.
So
once
we're
done,
you
guys
can
take
a
look
at
what
you
could
actually
check
out
and
also
sign
up
for
the
program.
I've
got
some
qr
codes
to
do
so,
and
it's
just
some
handouts
as.
M
Well,
thank
you
everyone
for
having
me
here,
I'm
chef,
andrew
foreign.
I
run
my
own
consulting
chef,
af
dot
com
business,
where
I
teach
people
about.
D
M
Residential
appliances,
not
just
induction,
but
all
the
others
that
are
coming
out
and
how
to
select
and
then
use
them,
but
today
I'm
focusing
on
induction.
Well,
you
all
know
that
it
works
and
it
works
really.
Well,
I
will
say
that
I've
had
induction
in
my
home
for
the
last
several
years,
we've
used
induction
in
restaurants
and
hotels
for
years
put
some
cold
water
in
so
the
induction
is
different
than
the
resistant
electric
that
which
gets
blowing
red
hot.
M
F
M
M
This
to
me,
induction
has
made
the
old
electric
obsolete
in
that
this
is
90
efficient.
The
glowing
red
hot
electric
is
75
efficient.
You
have
to
remove
the
cookware
to
stop
the
cooking
process
right
and
then
all
that
heat
is
going
to
go
into
the
house.
Gas
indoor
residential
gas
is
40
efficient,
so
60
of
the
gas
you
bought
and
are
burning
goes
right
around
the
metal
before
that's
gonna
impact,
your
air
quality
you've
got
a
lot
of
you
know
pollutants
there.
M
The
other
thing
that
you
don't
realize
is
that
we're
in
a
lot
of
these
showrooms,
like
mountain
high
appliance
ferguson,
specialty
and
I
do
consultations,
people
come
in
and
I
think
that
gas
is
the
best
when
they
ask
me
what
you
know,
what
the
best
appliances
and.
M
You
for
your
lifestyle
and
how
you
engage
your
kitchen,
so
you
do
want
to
approach
it
thinking
and
being
curious
about.
What's
going
to
match
you
best,
there's
some
appliances
that
are
very
high-tech
that
are
having
touch
screens
and
automation
and
then
there's
some
that
are
going
to
be
more
straightforward
or
manual
transition,
transmission
kind
of
style.
So
I'm
just
going
to
put
cold
water
in
here
and
we're
going
to
go
to
a
high
boil,
and
it
will
turn
it
off
to
show
you
how
responsive
it
is.
M
So
the
complaint
with
electric
is
that
it's
not
responsive
right.
This
one's
got
a
fan
built
in
to
keep
the
electronics
cool.
All
of
your
residential
ranges
will
have
that
as
well
as
this
induction
comes
now,
30
inch
ranges
slide
in
cooktops,
30
inch,
36
48
inch
ranges.
We're
even
saying
ranges
that
mix
both.
So
you
can
get
induction
and
gas
there's
a
big
difference
between
commercial
gas
and
residential
gas,
and
what
we
see
on
tv
is
commercial
restaurant
grade
in
gas
cooktops
and
ranges
the
btus
on
those.
M
M
So
gas
is
very
underpowered
in
the
residential
space
with
different
building
codes.
All
the
manufacturers
are
different
from
residential
to
commercial,
because
they're
so
much
different
kind
of
be
able
to
follow.
You
can
only
have
so
much
heat
coming
out
of
your
appliances,
so
that
means
that
residential
gas
really
is
lower
power.
Induction
is
35
000
bt
equivalent,
so
almost
150
percent
more
be
so.
When
I'm
using
this,
I'm
usually
about
three
quarters.
Power
is
my
height.
Unless
I'm
doing
a
pot
of
water
which
is
thermally
dense,
you
can
go
really
high.
M
M
So
when
ski
towns
gases
will
take
30
minutes
of
boiling
pot
of
water
longer,
whereas
induction
is
going
to
be
really
quick,
I
really
encourage
people
to
think
about
induction
indoors
for
the
air
quality
as
well
and
ventilation
needs
your
ventilation
requirements
for
your
cooking
is
on
how
much
open
flame
gas
you're
combusting
in
the
home.
Okay,
it
doesn't
have
to
do
with
the
smells
of
particulates.
M
You're
still
going
to
want
some
with
induction
just
for
the
smells,
but
you
might
have
a
much
lower
fan.
If
you
get
a
big
range
with
a
lot
of
btu,
you
have
to
have
a
ventilation
that
matches
that
if
you
get
over
400
cfm,
it
depends
on
the
counting,
but
usually
it's
around
400
you've
been
leaving
the
house.
You
have
to
have
air
coming
in
the
house,
that
air's
going
to
be
heated
and
treated
and
that's
a
whole
other
hvac
system
right
process.
M
So
you
can
snowball
by
getting
a
big
range
and
the
ventilation
requirement
is
based
on
all
the
gas
b2
that
you
had
all
the
burners
on
which
I
don't
know
how
often
it
works
actually
number
one,
but
that's
the
requirement.
So,
with
induction
downdraft
is
much
more
forgiving
than
it
would
be
with
gas.
So
down
draft
allows
for
island
cooking
without
alcohol
right
over
you,
you
can
have
it
built
into
the
cabinet,
treat
the
counter
and
just
pull
the
air
down.
M
We
can
have
a
pop
up
so
we're
starting
to
get
our
boiling
here,
and
someone
mentioned
that
the
plug-ins
are
going
to
be
a
little
underpowered
compared
to
your
ranges,
because
the
plug-in
is
plugging
into
a
110
outlet,
whereas
induction
is
220
and
then
you're
going
to
entire
amperage.
M
Already
the
cookware
needed
for
induction
people
are
worried
that
it
has
to
be
induction
specific.
It
just
has
to
be
compatible
any
metal.
That's
magnetic
the
metals
magnet
sticks
through
it's
going
to
work
so
iron.
Anything,
that's
fair,
so
aluminum
and
copper
do
not
work.
Personally,
I
don't
like
cooking
on
aluminum
because
it
doesn't
hold
heat.
Well,
it's
very
spot,
but
a
lot
of
your
entry
level
or
non-stick
pans
are
going
to
be
illuminated.
M
I
don't
know
where
I
was
sliding
so
we'll
talk
briefly
on
this
specific
model
with
testing
q.
That's
what
this
system
is
called.
M
The
pan
actually
has
a
bluetooth
thermometer
built
into
the
handle,
which
means
the
pan
and
the
burner
can
synchronize
and
will
actually
adjust
the
temperature
accordingly,
so
you
can
actually
cook
to
temperature
instead
of
low
medium
high.
I
can
set
it
to
say
350
degrees
or
400
degrees,
so
you
can
really
get
that
precision.
The
next
step
of
that
is
that
there's
an
app
with
guided
recipes,
so
you
can
actually
say
hey.
M
I
want
this
pre-programmed
recipe
and
it's
going
to
guide
you
through
it
step
by
step
and
prompt
you
to
flip
food,
so
really
high-tech
but
very
informative.
So
it's
learning
as
people
are
cooking,
some
of
the
younger
generation
almost
sat
in
the
kitchen,
so
anything
to
help
is
great
and
then
that
technology
is
about
to
throw
shade
that
technology
is
licensed
in
ge
appliances.
So
we're
starting
to
see
some
of
this.
You
know
startup
technology
getting
put
into
the
appliances,
so
gpe's
got
that
and
each
one
is
a
little
different.
M
I
will
say
that
induction
across
brands
is
very
similar
when
you
know
they're
all
competing
for
the
same
customer.
So
it's
really
not.
What
brand
is
best?
It's
really.
What
bracket
do
you
want
to
spend
to
get
into
it
better?
The
best
and
across
across
brackets
and
very
simple,
the
induction
coils
are
sourced
by
one
or
two
large
manufacturers,
so
the
brands
are
all
sourcing
the
same
components.
M
It
really
comes
down
to
the
finish
interface
and
aesthetic,
so
you
can
rest
assure
that
you're
going
to
get
a
good
induction,
regardless
of
when
you're
going
to
get
anything.
I
missed
on
induction
think
so
yeah,
so
I
have
cards
here
and
in
the
back
I
do
consultations.
I
do
webinars
on
my
website
as
well
doing
technology
in
the
home,
kitchen
and
backgrounds
and
fine
dining
I
trained
and
brought
more
came
up
through
there.
So
a
lot
of
experience
with
that
and
I
think.
B
We
did
it
and
I
will
have
you
stay
up
here:
yeah
yeah,
if
you
want
to
take
one
of
these
chairs.
Thank
you
to
andrew
for
that
presentation
on
induction
cooking
and
that
concludes
part
one
of
our
program
so
we'll
take
some
questions
from
the
audience.
This
is
anything
in
part,
one
so
I'll
bring
up
our
speakers
rob
and
christine.
B
Version
sure,
okay,
first
question
we
have
and
so
I'll
either
repeat
the
questions
or
we'll
have.
If
the
speaker,
one
of
the
speakers,
could
repeat
the
questions.
That
would
be
helpful.
First
question
is:
can
you
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
oven
portion
of
induction
protein.
M
Sure
so
induction
is
the
surface
cooking
the
burner
right
when
we
look
at
electric
ovens,
we're
looking
at
you
know:
convection
we're
not
seeing
built-in
probes.
So
I
can
have
a
pro
thermometer
and
I
can
see
the
internal
temperature
of
what
I'm
cooking,
so
you
can
put
it
in
and
you're
cooking
to
temperature,
not
just
by
time.
So
induction
does
refer
to
that
electromagnetic
coil.
So
it
is
more
of
the
burner
aspect.
But
electric
ovens
are
you
know
even
your
gas
ranges
and
a
range
is
when
the
cooktop
and
the
oven
are
in.
M
M
Usually
less
expensive,
so
that's
one
thing
to
consider,
but
yeah
so
abductions.
Definitely
the
cooktop-
and
one
thing
I
forgot
to
mention
was
I
appreciate
that,
as
we
said,
grilling's,
okay.
So
what
I
do
a
lot
with
clients
is
recommend
the
induction
indoors
for
all
the
safety.
We
talked
about
and
efficiency,
and
then
we
can
do
gas
outdoors.
So
when
you
go
outdoors,
you
don't
need
ventilation
unless
you're
under
overhang,
and
you
don't
have
that
btu
restriction.
So
you
can
get
the
best
of
both
it's
just
about
how
you
provide
it.
B
Rebates
take
that.
B
B
The
incidental
gas
usage
and
how
do
the
xl
rebates
affect
incidental
gas?
There
are.
K
Yes,
you
mentioned
that
you
could
get
an
induction
brains
or
a
cooktop.
B
E
N
Is
the
state
looking
to
kind
of
help
off-balance
those
the
burden
that
the
residents
of
louisville
have
to
incur
to
rebuild,
or
is
there
something
that
we
can
apply
for
to
kind
of
help
offset
those
thousands
of
dollars
and
fees
rebuild
fees
that
we
have
to
take
that
the
other
counties
don't
or
the
other
places
do
not.
N
Yeah
but
those
fees
get
distributed
evenly
between
the
counties.
So,
since
we're
being
burdened
more
burdened,
the
people
of
louisville
are
being
more
burdened.
Should
we
get
more
get
more
of
those
incentives?
I
mean.
Why
is
it?
Why
is
it
we
have?
The
residents
of
louisville
have
to
incur
that
burden,
while
the
other
residents
don't
have
to
of
superior
and
boulder
county.
F
J
L
E
And
then
right
here,
yes,
we
talked
about
the
rebates
here
excel
on
your
website.
It's
not
clear
as
you
go
through
those
is
there
anything
that
does
a
bullet
point
for
this.
You
need
all
of
this
next
step.
You
need
to
have
these
four
so
as
we're
working
with
a
builder.
This
is
what
we're.
J
By
and
large
they
stack
on
each
other.
So
so
it's
a
question.
If
the
question
is,
is
there
a
codified
list
of
the
requirements
of
their
crimes
for
each
of
the
levels?
The
answer
to
that
is,
yes,
we
haven't
quite
we
haven't
published,
we
haven't
it's,
it's
available,
it's
finished,
and
but
it
isn't,
I
mean
to
be
to
be
really
blunt:
it's
not
prettied
up
yet
so
we
have
the
list,
we
have
the
list
done
and
we
can
absolutely
provide
that
to
you.
It
would
help
in
sparing
us.
H
J
J
Our
throughput's
gonna
be
most
if
you're
rebuilding
better
so
we'll
be
on
the
excel
website,
but
we'll
find
a
way
to
get
our
remarketing
yeah.
Absolutely.
B
K
E
Fire
issues
there's
a
there's,
a
whole
variety
of
there's
more
than
one
way
to
document
your
income.
So
it's
not
necessarily
from
your
tax
records
and
typically
the
way
it
works
is
at
the
time
of
application.
E
J
Yet
it's
not
it's
not
online,
you
could,
I
asked
very
nicely
for
it
to
be
put
online
today.
That's
the
best
I
could
do
is
ask
nicely,
but
we
have
just.
We
have
sent
it
out
older.
The
rebuilding
veterans
got
it.
We're
gonna,
be
distributing
it
to
our
builders
and
raiders
momentarily
rachel
looks
like
gs
on
that.
B
Well,
the
50
000
loans
put
a
lien
on
the
house.
Someone
read
that
fba
puts
a
restriction
on
a
second
lien
being
put
on
a
house
and
they're
wondering
if
they
could
get
both
an
sba
loan
and
this
loan.
E
E
B
Okay,
we'll
follow
up
with
that
one.
Next
one
are
the
income
levels,
gross
income
or
agi.
E
It's
going
to
be
gross
income
and
in
most
cases
it's
not
based
on
your
tax
forms.
There
are
some
cases
where
that's
the
best
route,
but
in
most
cases
it's
going
to
be
just
you
know
what
you
make
on
a
monthly
basis
just
to
follow
up.
B
Does
the
gross
the
question
for
those
of
you
on
zoom
is?
Does
the
gross
income
include
dividends,
or
is
it
purely
just
income
based.
E
B
M
There
are
already
supply
chains
issues
with
all
appliances,
so
order
them
early
and
often.
M
You
know
work
with
the
retailer.
I
recommend
the
the
specific
retailers
like
mountain
high
or
burgers,
and
especially
they
specialize
in
these
the
appliances,
something
people
don't
realize
is
box
stores.
When
you
buy
appliances,
the
install
delivery
is
a
third-party
contract,
whereas
these
premium
or
retailers
are
going
to
have
their
own
certified
technicians
and
installers,
who
are
certified
by
the
manufacturer.
75
of
the
failures
in
the
first
year
of
our
client
are
due
to
improper
install.
So
it's
worth
maybe
that
little
bit
more
to
spend.
B
B
Can
excel
talk
about
how
the
raiders
coexist
with
the
builders
some
of
the
higher
level
rebate,
sections
need
a
writer.
So
can
you
speak
to
that?
A
little
bit.
J
Yeah
raiders
and
raiders
are
very
raiders,
are
typically
contracted
with
the
builders.
It'd
be
you'd,
be
very
hard
pressed
to
find
a
builder
that
does
not
already
work
with
the
hers
raider,
so
so
they're.
The
requirement
for
our
raiders
should
not
be
hurdle
because
builders
are
buying
we're
already
working
with
them.
Does
that
adequately
answer
the
question?
Okay,.
K
J
Effectively,
if
I'm
interpreting
your
question
correctly,
please,
if
someone
wants
to
basically
do
their
own
gc,
do
they
so
call
five
to
three
base,
absolutely.
F
M
Question
so
through
the
cost
of
induction,
where
is
it
compared
to
other
versions,
so
I
would
say,
generally
induction
the
price
has
been
coming.
G
M
The
more
market
share
gets
the
more
the
manufacturers
invest
in
providing
quality
equipment.
I
would
say
the
induction
is
about
in
line
with
gas
with
nice
gas
ranges
and
cooktops,
it's
going
to
be
a
little
bit
more
expensive
than
electric,
but
when
we
think
about
the
efficiency
and
the
lower
electricity
used
in
the
long
run
that
that's
something
that
they
can
consideration.
K
Actually,
I
have
a
few
questions,
one
for
the
state
and
one
for
excel.
So
when
you
were
going
through
that
slides
for
the
loan,
you
said
you
can't
opt
out
of
building
codes.
So
does
that
mean
that
we
have
to
build
to
the
2021
code.
L
L
L
L
What
the?
What
is
the
appendix
essentially
yeah,
yeah,
so
louisville
when
they
passed
their
codes?
I
think
it
was
in
october.
It
included
what
we
called
stretch
codes,
so
additional
codes
for
solar
radiation,
although
like
group
yeah,
but
we
do
believe
because
this
is
something
the
state's
working
on
anyways
is
standardized
building
codes
and
we
do
have
legislation
to
pass
that
we're
gonna.
You
know
start
asking
communities
to
start
thinking
about
those
2021
energy
codes.
L
So
every
three
years
generally
there's
a
new
there's
new
building
codes
that
come
out
from
it's
the
iecc,
and
so
it
really
does
matter
because
it
is
increased
energy
efficiency.
It
is
long-term
cost
savings
and
the
difference
between
the
2018
and
the
2021,
regardless
of
what
you
may
have
heard,
is
a
little
under
5
000
and
that
does
include
inflation
of
about
20
because
of
the
pandemic
and
all
the
other
things
that
have
been
going
on.
So
it
is
worthwhile
because
you.
L
K
Yeah
and
then
my
other
question
for
excel,
so
we're
thinking
of
a
ground
source
heat
pump
and
for
your
17
500.
You
have
to
have
a
ground
source
water,
heater.
J
K
J
H
J
Was
that
the
superhero
superhero
is
required
for
the
federal
tax
credit,
that's
for
the
ground
source
heat
pump.
Only
right,
yeah
we're
the.
G
Did
you
want
to
answer
yeah
just
she
had
mentioned
earlier
that
she
had
a
2021
code
for
state
benefits,
but
for
those
of
us
who
are
in
an
incorporated
boulder
county.
G
L
G
L
J
I'm
hoping
I'm
loud
enough.
I've
never
been
accused
of
being
quiet.
So
I
hope
you
guys
even
can
hear
me
if
it
hasn't
been
sent
to
you.
That's
that's
our
fault,
but
it's.
The
unincorporated,
bold
accounting
code
has
the
same
opportunities
as
ibcc21.
B
Yes,
thank
you.
We
do
need
to
move
on
right
now.
Hold
your
question
write
it
down.
We
might
have
time
at
the
end
for
more
general
questions
or
else
anything
that's
written
on
any
of
the
comment
cards.
Questions
will
be
answered
in
a
follow-up
communication
after
this,
so
for
for
the
moment,
we'll
have
our
first
part
of
our
session
speaker
sit
down.
Thank
you
all.
G
D
B
Robbie
is
the
new
homes
new.
G
B
Advisor
with
energy,
smart
he's
gonna
be
giving
us
a
quick
overview
of
heat
pump
basics
and
then
we'll
bring
up
some
heat
pump.
Experts
for
questions.
K
I
Camping
trip,
so
I
have
to
get
my
brain
back
into
this,
so
the
basis
of
a
heat
pump-
and
the
big
thing
to
remember
is
that
heat
pumps
move
energy.
They
don't
create
energy,
which
is,
is
a
big
big
difference
here.
So
what
we're
doing
is
we're
talking
about
how
energy
moves,
energy
moves
from
higher
concentrations
to
lower
concentrations
from
hot
to
cold
is
in
essence,
what
you're
doing,
and
it's
always
that
direction
it
never
never
does
never
moves
the
other
direction
unless
you
add
more
energy
to
the
equation
there.
I
So
that's
that's
a
big
thing
to
think
about,
and
so
we
wonder
often
how.
How
are
we
getting
energy
out
of
really
cold
air?
It's
negative
10
outside
what
does
that
really
mean
and
there?
The
reality
is
that
there's
energy
in
that
air,
when
it's
really
really
cold
we're
just
not
measuring
it.
The
the
system
that
we're
using
to
measure
it
doesn't
take
that
into
account.
I
So
when
we're
talking
from
a
scientific
perspective,
we
use
the
kelvin
scale
there
and
if
you
look
at
this,
this
little
picture
up
here,
you'll
see
at
fahrenheit
at
32
degrees
fahrenheit,
which
is
freezing
point
celsius.
It's
zero,
but
at
kelvin
the
kelvin
scare,
there's
273
degrees
kelvin
there
at
32
degrees
freezing
point.
So
it's
just
an
indication
that
there's
there's
a
significant
amount
of
energy
in
that
air
there
and
it's
just.
I
How
are
we
going
to
get
that
energy
out
of
that
air
and
transfer
that
energy
from
outside
to
inside,
to
be
able
to
heat
our
house?
You
know
in
the
winter
time
there
so
there's
this
basic
this
this
refrigerant
cycle
out
there
that
lewis
carrier
created
or
invented
that
gives
us
to
do
it.
So
it's
basically
moves
that
energy
from
one
location
to
the
other
location
using
the
refrigerant.
That's
inside
of
these
systems.
I
Here
this
maybe
goes
through
a
little
bit
more
detail,
and
one
one
thing
to
realize
is
that
a
refrigerator
is
a
heat
pump.
You
already
have
a
heat
pump
in
your
house.
A
refrigerator
is
a
heat
pump
and
it
works
by
moving
energy
across
the
boundary,
which
is
the
boundary
of
the
walls
of
the
refrigerator
the
door
of
the
refrigerator,
and
it's
it's
cooling
that
unit
there.
So
this
is
is
really
kind
of
the
basis
of
the
slide
that
we
really
want
to
talk
about
is
what's
happening
out
there.
I
So
if
I
have,
this
is
a
real
basic
air
conditioning
or
refrigerant
cycle
here,
where
you
have
an
inside
coil
and
an
outside
coil,
and
you
have
this
compressor
in
the
evaporator.
So
if
it's
115
degrees
outside
you
know,
the
question
is:
how
am
I
going
to
cool
my
house
because
I've
got
to
take
I've
got
to
take
energy.
I've
got
to
transfer
the
heat
from
inside
my
house
to
outside
my
house
in
order
to
cool
that
that
house,
so
the
magic
happens
at
the
compressor
and
the
evaporator.
I
So
if
I
all
I
have
to
do
is
make
that
refrigerant,
hotter
than
115
degrees
in
order
to
move
that
energy
from
inside
the
house
to
outside
the
house.
So
it's
not
115
degrees
inside
the
house
right.
So
I'm
pulling
I'm
pulling
a
cold
fluid
across
the
heat
exchanger
inside
the
house,
so
it's
picking
up
some
energy
and
then
I
have
to
then
I'm
going
to
compress
that
that
fluid
and
as
I
compress
it
it's
going
to
raise
the
temperature
above
115
degrees
and
that
energy
is
going
to
go
from
hot
to
cold.
I
It
always
goes
from
hot
to
cold
or
more
to
less
right
and
the
same
thing.
When
I'm
taking
energy
from
the
outside.
Let's
say
it's
10
degrees
outside.
I
need
to
make
that
that
that
refrigerant
colder
than
negative
10
degrees.
So
I'm
going
to
expand
it.
If
you
ever
use
that
liquid
air
or
canned
air
to
clean
your
computer
or
something
if
you,
if
you
hold
that
nozzle
down
that
can
gets
really
cold
right.
I
So
if
I
expand,
if
I
let
that
air
expand
or
let
let
that
coolant
expand,
I'm
going
to
drop
the
temperature
of
that
coolant
below
negative
10
degrees
and
so
that
energy,
that's
in
that
negative
10
degrees,
air
is
going
from
higher
concentrations
to
lower
concentrations
and
it's
going
to
go
into
that
refrigerant.
Come
into
the
house
and
you're
going
to
be
able
to
heat
that
house
on
a
really
cold
day.
So
it's
it's!
It's
it's
a
great
technology.
It's
super
efficient
because
it's
just
transferring
air.
It's
not!
I
Actually
I
mean
energy,
it's
transferring
energy
from
one
location
to
the
other
location,
and
it's
super
efficient.
It's
in
fact
it's
more
than
100
percent
efficient.
When
you
think
about
a
furnace,
for
example,
a
gas
furnace
for
heating,
your
house,
if
I
the
highest
I
can
get,
is
about
a
98
furnace.
That
means
90,
roughly
98
of
the
of
the
energy
is,
is
being
transferred
into
the
house,
but
I've
got
two
percent
of
that
energy.
I
That's
going
out
up
the
flue
in
essence
to
the
atmosphere,
but
a
heat
pump
can
be
a
coefficient
of
performance
is
the
way
that
we
measure
it
and
it's
basically
over
one.
If
it's
one,
it's
a
hundred
percent
efficient.
If
it's
over
one,
it's
it's
two,
it's
200
percent
efficient.
It
is
three
it's
three
percent
300.
G
I
Efficient,
so
these
systems
average
at
around
three
cops
so
they're,
roughly
on
average
about
300
percent
efficient
at
transferring
the
energy,
because
it's
not
actually
burning
something
or
or
trend
you're,
taking
the
the
energy
from
an
electric
cable
into
the
system
and
trying
to
transfer
that
into
the
air,
which
is
really
an
efficient
way
of
doing
it.
So
because
we're
just
moving
energy
from
one
location
to
the
other
location,
we're
able
to
heat
or
cool
your
house
with
one
device
and
we're
able
to
do
it
in
a
very
efficient
efficient
way.
B
B
Few,
like
we'll
just
do
it
that's
similar
to
what
we
did
matthew
baker.
He
is
the
manager
of
electrification,
utility
and
government
programs
for
dyke
and
comfort
technologies.
Next
we
have
brian
fowler.
He
is
the
owner
of
geosource
distributors,
and
so
he
is
an
expert
in
the
ground
source
heat
pumps.
Next,
we
have
sean
lemons.
He
is
the
performance,
construction
manager
with
mitsubishi
thanks
for
coming
and
lastly,
we
have
bill
lucas
brown,
who
is
the
vice
president
of
zero
energy
solutions
and
I
believe,
we'll
be
our
expert
on
the
heat
pump
water.
F
B
C
So
the
question
is
how
a
a
heat
recovery,
ventilator
or
an
energy
recovery
ventilator
will
work
with
a
heat
pump
in
a
whole
home
system.
I'm
guessing
correct,
so
ventilation
is
part
of
hbac,
it
is
the
hvac,
and
so
it
really
should
be
an
integrated
or
included
topic
right.
It
hasn't
been
for
a
long
time,
but
as
we
improve.
C
Shells
and
as
these
buildings
get
much
much
better
than
they
were
10
20
30
years
ago.
We
also
have
to
think
about
how
that
air
comes
into
the
house,
how
it
moves
around
the
house
and
how
it
leaves
the
house
and
there's
opportunities
to
recover
energy
from
that
outgoing
air.
So
an
erv,
for
example,
brings
in
fresh
air,
it
warms
up
in
the
winter
it'll
warm
up
to
closer
to
indoor
air
temperature
and
and
then
as
it
as
that
fresh
air
benefits
the
house
and
takes
care
of
the
people
and
ventilates
pollutants.
C
Then
the
exhaust
air
will
leave
and
it
will
leave
at
room
temperature
if
you
will
and
that
room
temperature
energy
will
be
the
energy
that
goes
in
to
help
bring
up
the
incoming
air
temperature
in
the
summer
time.
It's
reversed,
so
it's
90
degrees
outside
we're,
going
to
drop
that
temperature
down
to
say
82
degree
or
82
degrees,
or
something
like
that
to
recover
some
of
that
energy.
B
N
Okay,
my
question
has
to
do
with
how
how
seer
ratings
relate
with
heat
pumps
and
air
conditioners,
how
they
interrelate
with
each
other
and
what
would
be
a
good
seer
rating
to
kind
of
look
at
you
know
a
baseline
and
a
good
above
baseline.
I
So
the
question
was
around
seer
ratings
and
how
they
correlate
between
air
conditioners
and
heat
pumps,
and
that
would
be
a
good
one
and
what
would
be
a
good
one?
So
I'll
start
off
by
saying
an
air
conditioner
is
a
heat
pump.
It's
a
heat
bump
that
works
in
just
one
direction,
though,
whereas
a
heat
pump
as
we
use
the
term
now
is
bi-directional:
both
heats
and
cools
your
home.
So
in
essence,
the
rating,
the
efficiency
rating,
the
seasonal
energy
efficiency
rating,
is
what
steered
cyr
stands
for
is
applicable
to
both
technologies.
I
Equally,
there
are
some
new
there's,
some
nuance
to
that
in
terms
of
how
how
the
system
operates.
If
it's
a
single
speed,
two
speed
or
a
variable
capacity
or
variable
speed
system,
there's
some
nuance
to
that,
but
essentially
the
the
the
criteria
works
just
the
same
for
both
of
them
when
it
comes
to
selecting
your
seer
rating,
the
higher
the
rating.
Obviously
your
price
point's
going
to
go
up
and
that's
where
your
incentives
from
from
your
utility
company
come
into
play.
I
So
I
encourage
you
to
look
at
the
ratings
from
excel
is
a
great
example.
If
you
have
excel
as
your
service
provider,
look
at
the
ratings
that
they're
that
they're
incentivizing
you
to
code
minimum
is
establishes
that
the
minimum
efficiency
that
you
can
purchase
for
your
home.
That's
federally
mandated
the
energy
codes
in
our
state
or
in
our
in
our
local
jurisdictions.
Here
in
colorado,
stacked
from
there,
your
minimum
efficiency
is
going
to
be
what
is
it
14,
13
seer?
I
It
will
be
14
seer
next
year,
so
anything
above
that
is
going
to
be
better
than
the
than
the
worst
that
you
can
install
right
now.
A
good
target
is
generally
in
that
17
to
18
tier
18.
Seer
range.
That's
going
to
get
you
well
above
the
minimum,
but
not
up
into
the
really
expensive
equipment.
So,
but
again,
it's
really.
I
I
think,
what's
most
important
for
air
source,
heat
pumps
in
particular,
or
ground
source
heat
pumps
is
not
so
much
the
sear
value,
it's
more
that
what
robbie
was
talking
about
that
coefficient
of
performance
because
we're
in
a
heating
dominated
climate
and
so
we're
sizing
these
systems
to
meet
the
heat
loads
of
your
home.
So
let's
say
it's
50
000
btus
on
a
zero
degree
day
you
lose
that
much
in
an
hour.
You
need
a
heat
pump.
That
gives
you
that
much
so.
C
I
I
You
know
both
daikon
and
mitsubishi
have
really
good
cold
climate
performance
canvas
heat
pump,
and
this
is
her
air
source
on
the
ground
source,
constant
50
degrees,
down
there
more
efficient,
more
expensive
to
install,
but
if
we
can
get
good
cold
climate
performance,
meaning
it's
zero
degrees,
that
system
can
still
put
out
that
50
000
btus
and
still
have
a
decent
coefficient
of
performance
that
200
300
number.
That's
what
you're
looking
at.
C
O
O
O
And
normally
for
a
decent
geothermal
unit,
you'll
see
an
eer
of
about
20
to
25,
so
that
would
be
considered
a
good
number
for
a
geothermal
unit.
Geothermal
units
are
rated
in
cop,
that
is,
the
heating
efficiency
for
a
decent
geothermal
unit.
They
typically
about
a
cop
of
four
to
five,
so
they're
400
to
500
efficient
and
again,
that's
not
seasonal.
That's
not
average!
That's
at
a
worst
case.
O
O
H
O
What's
the
cost
difference
between
a
traditional
say,
gas,
forced
air
with
a
traditional
air
con
air
conditioner
compared
to
a
heat
pump
a
lot
of
variables.
There
depends
on
the
efficiency
that
you're
comparing
but
let's
say,
let's
take
a
kind
of
a
basic
generic
air,
conditioner
gas
furnace,
90
furnace.
Let's
say
a
13
serial
air
conditioner.
O
Compare
that
to
a
maybe
a
mid
to
upper
grade
air
source
heat
pump,
you're,
probably
going
to
be
about
20
percent
higher
20
to
25
higher
for
this.
For
the
heat.
C
Pump,
that's
on
that
and
there's
there's
lots
of
variables
in
that
in
terms
of
equipment
costs
in
terms
of
technician,
skills
and
the
multipliers
that
they
need
to
operate
their
business
at
so
there's
a
wide
wide
range
of
numbers
there.
So
it's
really
hard
to
compare
apples
to
apples
on
it,
but
yeah
heat
pumps
are
typically
more
expensive,
but
they
there
are
savings
there
that
are
higher,
there's
also
different
tiers.
As
we
talked
about
so
it's
a
it's.
K
C
Yeah
I'll
start
and
then
I'll
hand
it
back
over
ground
source
is
the
more
efficient
system.
There
are
additional
costs
in
there
and
I
would
also
say
it
is
dependent
on
the
ground,
the
nature
of
the
ground
that
it's
going
into,
and
so
and
also
the
the
skill
of
the
designer
and
the
technician
as
well.
If
it's
not
designed
or
drilled
properly,
there
can
be
challenges
in
the
same
way
that
there
could
be
challenges
with
badly
designed
air
source
heat
pumps.
O
F
O
With
a
stable
ground
temperature,
where
the
temperature
of
the
earth
never
changes
from
50
degrees,
once
you
get
down
about
60
feet,
so
that's
the
advantage
would
be
you
know
from
the
homeowner
perspective,
it
would
be
energy
savings
and
getting
rid
of
that
outdoor
unit,
but
they
are
significantly
more
expensive
because
of
the
cost
of
the
loop,
what's
called
the
ground
to
get
that
pipe
in
the
ground
to
to
use
that
crown
as
a
heat
exchanger.
That
is
expensive.
So
more
to
your
question,
what's
the
difference
in
price?
O
K
O
Mean
if
you
factor
in
what
the
cost
of
ownership
is,
you
know
your
energy
savings
will
typically
offset
the
additional.
So
if
you're
gonna
take
that
geothermal
system
throw
it
onto
a
mortgage,
if
you're
going
to
amortize
the
cost
of
that
over,
say
a
15
or
30
year
mortgage,
your
energy
savings
every
month
are
going
to
be
greater
than
the
additional
that
was
added
to
your
mortgage.
So
you
basically
start
from
a
positive
cash
flow
from
day
one
because
of
those
energy
savings.
K
I
The
critical
thing
when
building
anything
is
to
build
efficiency
efficiency
into
the
system.
First
right,
the
most
efficient
system
out
there
isn't
geothermal,
it's
not
air
source,
it's
not
some
magic,
anything!
It's
the
system,
that's
not
used!
That's
the
most
efficient
system,
so
build
your
homes
right
first
and
codes
already
requiring
you
to
do
that,
but
to
spend
a
little
bit
extra
and
tighten
it
up
and
beyond
what
code's
requiring
for
air
sealing
use.
A
good
contractor
use
a
use,
a
good
energy
radar
that
really
is
helping
with
that
so
you're
reducing
those
loads.
I
We
install
mostly
air
source
and-
and
I
have
nothing
against
brown
source-
it
is
the
most
efficient.
But
if
you
spend
money
on
insulation
and
air
sealing
and
good
quality
windows
making
that
shell
envelope
tight,
getting
an
energy
recovery
ventilator
to
make
sure
you
have
good
indoor,
air
quality
and
a
good
filter.
I
Your
loads
are
typically
so
low
that
an
air
source
can
easily
meet
those
loads
and
it
really
doesn't
cost
that
much
more.
It
costs
twice
as
much
monthly
as
a
ground
source,
but
are
we
talking
25
a
month
you're
talking
50
a
month?
So
it
depends
on
the
square
footage
of
the
house,
so
you
just
have
to
do
your
math
and
talk
to
someone
who
knows
what
they're
doing
but
ground.
F
D
I
K
I
Just
wanted
to
add
is
that's
exactly
why
excel
energy
has
the
homeowner's
incentives
each
of
those
programs
that
they're
incentivizing,
including
the
code
minimum
there
that
which
isn't
a
minimum?
It's
it's
a
good
performing
house
at
the
2021
iecc
is
giving
you
a
guideline,
a
a
checklist
in
essence,
for
how
to
build
a
house
that
bill
just
described
there.
So
you
just
need
to
pick
your
level
and
understand
what
it
needs
to
needs
to
happen
and
really.
O
D
I
To
understand
that
they're
working.
F
I
Like
I
think
rob
mentioned,
energy
raiders
are
usually
contracted
through
your
your
builder
there.
If
their
fees
vary
by
an
energy
rater,
but
in
general
they
they
touch
the
house
at
generally
four
different
points.
They
begin
with
an
energy
model
to
help
you
qualify
for
code
or
programs
and
whatnot,
and
try
to
understand
where
your
base
specifications,
those
things
are
going
to
perform
if
they're,
projecting
that,
through
an
energy
model
and
you'll.
I
That
energy
model
in
order
to
qualify
to
pre-qualify
for
these
incentive
programs
and
and
the
code
in
essence,
there
then
they'll
touch
the
house,
though
they're
always
available
for
consulting
and
whatnot,
but
they'll
actually
touch
the
house
in
terms
of
an
inspection
usually
beginning.
A
O
I
would
say
anytime:
you
get
that
unit
indoors,
it's
going
to
be
probably
more
reliable.
It's
probably
going
to
last
longer
there's
been
some
studies
done
on
that.
You
know,
with
geothermal
units
lasting
20,
30,
sometimes
40
years,
there's
a
lot
of
geothermal
units
out
these
mountain
planes
that
were
installed
in
the
early
90s
that
are
still
running.
O
So
the
the
maintenance
and
reliability
costs
not
necessarily
factored
in
up
front,
but
that's
part
of
what's
called
your
life
cycle
cost
and
really
that's
what
matters
right.
How
much
is
that
system
going
to
cost
you
over
the
life
of
the
system
or,
however
long
you
live
there,
so
generally
maintenance.
C
Here
I
would
say
both
companies
standing
up
here
have
very
long
track
records
of
quality
manufacturing
as
well.
So
it
goes
back
to
the
engineering
quality
et
cetera,
you're,
going
to
see
warranties
in
the
5
to
12
year
range,
depending
on
what
and
who,
but
we've
got
equipment
running
for
30
years
as
a
company,
we
test
our
equipment
for
30
years.
You
know
their
systems
running
from
the
80s
as
well.
So
it's
not
a
comparison
thing.
It's
just
look
for
a
quality
piece
of
equipment.
I
Just
just
one,
you
asked
about
the
different
streams,
ground
source
and
a
heat
pump
just
to
be
really
clear.
A
ground
source
heat
pump
is
a
heat
pump
as
well.
It's
the
difference
is
really
the
medium
that
you're
drawing
that
energy
from
one
is
from
the
ground.
The
other
is
from
the
air
that's
outside.
So
I
just
wanted
to
be
really
crystal
clear
about
that.
Thank
you
right.
In
the
back,
we've
heard
you
talk
about
efficiency.
We've
heard
you
talk
about
a
front
cost
which
can
be.
B
I
So
there
are
a
number
of
recently
released
studies
on
cost
effectiveness
of
heat
pumps,
both
for
air
source
and
ground
source
that
have
been
released
fairly.
Recently,
I
can't
draw
on
those
immediately
and
give
you
a
you
know.
I
It
really
comes
down
just
like
we
can't
give
you
a
cost
for
any
generic
system,
because
there's
so
many
things
that
that
factor
into
it,
but
there
I
will
say
that
there
are
a
number
of
research
papers
from
bodies
such
as
southwest
energy
efficiency
projects
sweep
just
released
one
a
few
months
ago
that
gets
into
exactly
that
sort
of
thing,
and
I'm
happy
to
share
resources
with
the
team
here
on
that
after
this
call
that
can
be
distributed
as
well,
but
I
can't
speak
specifically
to.
O
What
we
do
with
geothermal
and
air
source
is
models
we
model
every
project
individually,
because
there
are
so
many
variables.
What's
the
load,
what
size
system
do
you
need?
What
are
your
rates?
What
are
you
paying
for
all
those
things
come
into
play,
so
you
know
they're,
like
I
say
there
really
isn't
one
generic
answer.
C
C
I
probably
could
I'll
I'll
say
this:
there's
there's
lots
of
variables,
but
let's
pick
a
few
right,
you
have
to
replace
because
it's
been
destroyed,
the
furnace
and
air
conditioning
if
you
had
to
replace
it
in
an
existing
home
and
you're,
counting
that
cost
towards
towards
the
initial
expense
it's
drastically
lower.
H
C
Years
you
just
save
2
000
right
now.
You
just
get
the
factor
in
the
cost
of
money.
You
know
cost
of
financing
cost
of
energy,
your
ability
to
fluctuate.
You
know
when
and
how
you
run
that
system
like
previous
effect.
Well,
if
you
can
see
how
much
energy
you're
saving,
then
you
might
actually
use
more
power,
and
actually
it's
not
a
comparison,
so
there's
so
many
variables
that
go
into
this,
but
the
reason
it's
kind
of
critical
and.
D
I
I
But
we
remember
all
these
inefficient
houses
in
grand
lake
and
these
houses
up
in
evergreen
that
were
heated
with
electricity
when
electricity
was
too
cheap
to
meter.
That
was
fine,
but
then
electricity
are
really
expensive
and
all
of
a
sudden,
these
electric
big
giant
toaster
heated
homes,
were
for
500
a
month
to
heat,
so
electricity
got
a
really
bad
wrap.
I
I've
installed
hundreds
and
hundreds
of
high
efficiency
gas
units,
but
the
only
way
we
stop
digging
up
fossil
fuels
and
the
stored
carbon
there
is
to
switch
to
electric.
Why
I
can't
create
natural
gas
or
propane
or
coal.
It
is
a
fossil
fuel,
it's
all
fossil
fuel,
you
dig
it
up.
You
burn
it.
It
releases
the
carbon,
that's
an
issue.
We
think
we
can
see
some
numbers.
We
get
some
feelings
that
maybe
things
aren't
quite
right.
Electricity
can
be
produced
from
wind
and
solar
renewables
excel.
D
I
I
I
want
you
to
look
into
this
with
excel
and
we
have
someone
from
here
from
excel
right
now.
Electrification
is
the
only
way
we
can
continue
to
live
the
lives
we
want
to
drive
the
cars
we
want
to
live
in
homes
that
are
heated
with
nice,
hot
water
that
are
warm
and
lower
our
carbon
footprint.
And
so
that's
why
we're
talking
about
electricity?
So
that's
the
context.
I
know
that
I
opened
up
a
little
can
of
worms
here.
I
B
Okay,
I
know
we
have
a
lot
more
questions,
so
please
write
your
questions
on
your
comment
card.
We
have
about
30
minutes
till
the
rec
center
closes,
and
so
I'd
like
to
leave
some
time
for
networking
our
heat
pump.
Experts
will
stay
up
here
so
that
you
can
ask
your
questions.
We
have
rob
in
the
back
from
excel
energy
andrew's
in
the
back.
If
you
have
questions.
B
G
On
your
comment
card,
if
you
want
more
time
for
questions
at
our
next
workshop,
make
sure
you
write
that
down.
B
Outside
the
room
or
in
the
back,
thank
you.
We
have
a
really
good
team.