Carroll County, MD Board of County Commissioners Open Sessions, 5 Jun 2023

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: Police Accountability Board June 5, 2023

Description

https://www.carrollcountymd.gov
Agenda: https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/commissioners/board-of-carroll-county-commissioners-weekly-agenda/

A

Especially calling the pab meeting to order there's my gavel, bang. So I'm going to start.

A

Off by saying um we're working we're going to be recorded today, so I have my marching orders from.

A

The I.t department here at the county make sure that if you're going to be speaking that you're.

A

In front of a mic, so it can pick you up and also bear in mind that this room, unlike vegas anything.

A

That you say is also getting picked up. So if you have any fun comments, maybe save them until you're.

A

Out of the building um okay good morning, everybody thanks for being here. I just want to get started.

A

Quickly, I've got tom baird here from the acc and I'm very glad he is here because he's going.

A

To help me, when I start telling you about our recent training that we had so I'll get to that.

A

In a minute- but I just want to uh first of all establish a quorum so I'll have the pab members.

A

Just state your name for the record and and we'll go from there. Oh stephen miller, thank you ian shaw.

B

Lisa knight, stacy, schaefer and absent, is jeremy willett, who is out of the country currently.

A

And not available for the meeting, so we have established our quorum and I would like the pab.

A

Members to take a look at the minutes that we had from the march 6 meeting. Are there any corrections.

A

Any additions, any comments any needs to modify those in any way from any of you that you observed.

A

C

I think they looked good to me all right, make a motion to accept the.

D

Minutes is printed. Thank you second, thank you very much. All in favor.

A

Aye aye all right minutes are approved from the last meeting um before we uh before. I turn to the.

A

You know the the on and off of the glasses. Just excuse me, because I can't see anything close up.

A

And then, when I look out, I can't see any of you, so I'm going to be doing that all day.

A

um I just wanted to kind of bring the law enforcement agencies and the pab up to speed.

A

As to what the charging community has done since our last quarterly meeting, so we have uh had our.

A

Training down at the state police academy, training facility down in sykesville, so I'll talk about.

A

That in a minute- and we have also had our first case review- and that was a case from the that was.

A

Generated from the sheriff's department, so I'll talk very briefly about that without any salient.

A

Details so that all the law enforcement agencies know- and I know sheriff deweese- knows this- and and.

A

Colonel hart knows this because I'm sure they've contacted had some contact with um with lieutenant.

A

Devil best with regard to that first case, but our training was I I don't know, I can't speak.

A

For the other members of the acc, but when I was first confronted with the you've, got a 40 hours.

A

Of mandatory training all week long, you know it's like, oh god, what's this going to be like because.

A

I've been through plenty of legal seminars that you know by the end of the day, you're kind of like.

A

But I was very pleasantly surprised um and so I'm going to share some of my reflections.

A

And then I'll ask tom to kind of jump in and give us some of his impressions from.

A

It, but they did a very nice job of first of all, it was incredibly well organized.

A

Just the logistics of it, which I'm sure now we we had the benefit of not being among the.

A

First group that they had trained. I suspect that was a process of working all that out, but it was.

A

It was just very well handled from the get-go. The communication back and forth was good. They.

A

Let us know the expectations. They were open to any comments that we had. So it was. It was a good setup.

A

All of the folks that were trainers were excellent. They all first of all, they knew.

A

How to talk to a group of people and keep it keep them engaged, but the content. It's clear.

A

That they knew what they were talking about and they were able to convey that information.

A

In the confines of that 40 hours in a way that was very helpful, at least from my perspective.

A

So we had each day we had like a different setup, so the first day was kind of focused on.

A

um Sort of the rules of the road comar regulations, the trial board process. We had a speaker present.

A

On internal affairs from the law enforcement agency standpoint, the next day we worked on.

A

um Some de-escalation tactics that are taught you know to the through the academy process, so we were.

A

Made aware of that, we did. We took a look at some body, worn camera footage, and then we.

A

Talked discussed that that was parts of that were kind of fun um and they made an effort.

A

To make it enjoyable as well as while you were learning, because you know that's just a smart.

A

Way to do it anyway, so the third day we talked a lot about, we did some crisis intervention.

A

Discussion implicit bias, discussion and that was very helpful. The fourth day we did the uh the lab.

A

Portion of the week- and we did- we had a virtual reality- yeah we had virtual reality, but before.

A

We did that we did. We had these headphones on, that were designed to kind of give us.

A

The experience of what it's like from the standpoint of someone who has schizophrenia.

A

So we were literally hearing the voices in our head, while we were trying to do other.

A

Things and navigate the world. That was, I mean, I'm pretty tuned into mental health stuff. Just.

A

Through my job and through being a mediator and all of that, but but that was a real eye-opening.

A

Experience and I thought it was a very well done one and then the virtual reality was.

A

Again, really interesting, so they put us each one of us individually in the shoes of an officer at.

A

The scene of some incident and they gave us a little breakdown as to what was going on.

A

And then they just let us work through that scenario and it was fascinating.

A

um And then we did, we each came back and immediately wrote down our impressions of.

A

It I'll share with you my funny story, but I'll. Let tom talk after I'm done, yammering here um and then.

A

The last day we got together in our individual acc groups and they gave us two different cases.

A

To review- and we had to work through that and come up with our recommendation so by the end of.

A

The week we and we all spent the five of us from carol spent lunch basically together every day, so.

A

While, while the training itself was fabulous, the other part that was really fabulous was we got.

A

To know each other really well and figure out our strengths and our weaknesses and what we bring to.

A

The discussion as an acc, so so overall, I have nothing but glowing reports for that training.

A

Process- and I I the only thing that concerns me is going forward when they start having acc members.

A

Kind of rotating on and off boards, they won't have that same degree of everyone being there.

A

At the same time- and I think that's that's an added benefit, so that's just my little.

A

A brief review of that training session, I'm going to swing back to tom in a minute.

A

When I, when I go through some other stuff um further updates, we had our first monthly acc.

A

Meeting- um and we had one case that was presented by lieutenant double this- that process is going.

A

To kind of it will evolve over time as we get more tech um support through the county, as we.

A

Get individual email addresses to make it easier to disseminate information, and that sort of thing.

A

But I thought and and I'll let tom speak to this too. I thought that first case went really well.

A

um Lieutenant doubled this did a great job presenting it. He had all the video footage.

A

From the cameras that was very helpful, you know to add in, and so we were pretty.

A

Pretty um well prepared and came to we've reached our our decision. You know as a collaborative.

A

Effort and- and I think that whole process went pretty well and then we of course, through tim.

A

Sent that information back to the sheriff's department to to then decide whether they were.

A

Going to add to or decrease- and I don't know the answer to that- but I don't need to know the answer.

A

To that so that went very well. um The next monthly meeting of the acc is the 21st at nine o'clock.

A

If none of the other law enforcement agencies, if well I'll poll you all later and see if.

A

Anybody's got anything in the hopper, um but if we don't actually have a case to review, even if we.

A

Do have a case to review we're going to have an administrative meeting where we polish up.

A

Our rules of policy and procedure and get those kind of formalized we're working on formalizing.

A

The confidentiality agreement that we're going to have available to all the agencies, as you know so.

A

That we can ensure, from your perspective, that all the documents and information that you're.

A

Sharing with us during those case, reviews are kept secure, so so those are all working parts of.

A

The acc involvement, so I'm going to let tom give us his impressions of our training and.

A

Our our first meeting and and fill in the homes that I'm undoubtedly left yeah, I had the same.

E

Impression you know when, if you've served in the military or in government agencies, there's always.

E

Training you hear about and usually it's boring and right. I agree. You know 40 hours of sitting in.

E

A classroom is a lot, but um the instructors were all you know, experienced police officers, state.

E

Police, county police, other agencies, so they all were had dealt with this stuff for quite.

E

A while plus they had the experience of running about three or four classes, so we literally had.

E

I think three kind of different counties represented around the state, so it was good as we.

E

Got into the to the training a little bit further um from the first couple of days. You know, I think.

E

At the last meeting here I recall that there was a lot of concern about every little thing that.

E

Happens has to come to the acc and I think we found that. That's not really the case, because.

E

The cases that come to us are the ones that involve police misconduct, as defined by some.

E

Violation of the u.s state constitution, state law, regulations that involves a member of the public.

E

So it has to meet those two tests before it comes to us and the other situation we found.

E

Is that simple cases, even if they do involve a member of the public, could go to mediation.

E

If that's the decision of a local agency, so there there's ways to dispose of saying we.

E

Were I think we were all concerned about every little thing coming to us and that's not really.

E

The really the situation, I think, the other thing you know when you think about this.

E

There's no there's no case law because it's all new there's no real precedent. So the.

E

Thing they've drowned in us were three points that I haven't forgotten. Is you got to be fair.

E

You got to call balls and strikes and you got to be consistent, so I could look any of you in the.

E

Face and we might disagree, but if you know in my heart that I'm doing the best I can hopefully we.

E

Come up with the right decision, but that really really stuck with me. The other thing that that.

E

Impressed me was the you know how de-escalation and escalation goes both ways. It's not always the.

E

Officer, certainly sometimes it's the other side, so you have to understand that you have to understand.

E

Going in about the biases that we all have- and you have to deal with that stuff, it's real.

E

um I thought the uh the virtual reality scenarios were awesome and I think the the point of that.

E

Was to put you into the position of what a police officer has to deal with very quickly.

E

Sometimes it's split. Second, the one case was split. Second stop, but I don't want to.

E

Get into them because you know they told us not to talk about it, a lot, but the one just.

E

A guy going for his cell phone that was stuck in his back pocket and you got to react like that.

E

No, I didn't shoot anybody, so I thought I did okay, but um but the uh it was. uh It was good.

E

uh The instructors had had a sense of humor. They were actually obviously had a lot of experience.

E

The other thing is, you know, they're there as a resource, so we've had questions. I don't know you.

E

Guys know probably know wayne silver, he was a main guy and he did a. He did a really good job.

E

um The experience of friday was good because we got to to kind of work through cases as a group.

E

We knew we were going to have a case and, as it came out, we came up with our answer and we kind.

E

Of were you know, kind of in the in the norm of what the decision should be. So you know overall.

E

I came out of it with a lot of I'm, certainly no expert, but probably more than 99, of the people.

E

That haven't been through it because you know it's it's all new. It's it's a maryland's kind.

E

Of like in the spotlight of the country, because this is really a new process- and you know you've.

E

Got every county has they're folks and if you don't have good folks doing it, making decisions.

E

For the right reasons you know you can it can be, uh it could be not so good right. So hopefully we.

E

Have I think, a good group of people that are, you know having gone through the first case together.

E

It was a good, honest, open discussion and we ended up with a decision that we all could live with.

E

And uh I I feel I feel like it was a productive training and- and you know, dealing with it for the.

E

First time you know worked out really well agreed agreed, so one funny. Here's the just a little funny.

A

Story so the we had two scenarios in the virtual reality. I just like to tell stories so that's.

A

Really why you're I'm forcing you to listen to me, but um the second one was the one that tom alluded.

A

To where someone had a cell phone- and you know you couldn't really see what he was doing and then he.

A

Whipped it out, and so of course we all had our you know now here I am I've. Never like I, the last gun.

A

I shot was when I was a kid in 4-h and we did bb gun training. I still have an nra trophy for that.

A

Which you know, but so that was the last time, so they give us these. These um yeah, like a glock and.

A

So you start before they hit you with the scenarios they have you on the gun range.

A

Oh and the target has come it's kind of like okay aim at the center of the target, so I've got my gun.

A

Up and I'm like pulling the trigger and dave in my ear- says: okay stacy. I can hear that you're pulling.

A

The trigger, but you have to pull a little harder, so I'm like so I really pulled and it kicked back.

A

And a fake shell was out and I just went whoa and he was like yeah yeah and I said, oh okay, now I get.

A

It so you know, but but that's just a little window. I had no idea that it was that you know the gun is.

A

Heavy that's a heavy gun so anyway, that was for me personally a little entertaining and then in.

A

The scenario when we got together so the groups that we were with, we had a batch from cecil county.

A

We had a batch from washington county and then we had a few other random folks from.

A

Other jurisdictions in our collective large group- and um I don't know what other jurisdictions did.

A

Although there was a lot of um joking about you know who shot the guy and who didn't shoot, the.

A

Guy but we had to write these narratives, so in my narrative I wrote because the scenario from from.

A

My own individual experience was, I had my weapon drawn, but as soon as I saw it was a cell phone.

A

I dropped my weapon, but I'm over the top, I'm like I'm a grandma so and this was.

A

A person that was having a mental health crisis, and so he said, I have every right.

A

To film you, and so I said, you know what you're absolutely right, you're absolutely.

A

Absolutely right at which point he then sat down and said: okay, I'm ready to go to the hospital, but.

A

um From my perspective, when I was writing it out, you know I wrote out the narrative like I, you know.

A

I lowered my weapon, um he sat down and said he was ready to go to the hospital and I said to.

A

Him look, I'm really sorry. I drew my weapon on you and wayne silver was reading it and he just kind.

A

Of chuckled- and I said what are you laughing at and he said you're just adorable, so that was my.

A

Fun that was my fun takeaway moment from that, but what that training did was really give us.

A

um Just a tiny little taste of what it's like to try and make those decisions when you've got.

A

A lot of visual and auditory stimulus coming at you and you've got to make those choices.

A

In the moment- and so um from that point it was, I thought it was good. It was. It was helpful, helpful.

A

Okay, so enough about that, um so turning to on my agenda on our agenda today, really what I wanted to.

A

To bring you up to date on acc matters so that everybody knows kind of where we are with that.

A

We've got our next meeting and so now I'll turn to the agencies and hear from you in terms of.

A

What has happened since we had our last meeting if you've had any incidents that came up, that.

A

um If you've got anything in the hopper for the acc, let me know that, and I can that'll give us the.

A

Heads up so that we know we've got a case coming and also I wanted to let you know that we've kind.

A

Of we're working, obviously sheriff's department is kind of the biggest agency, and so we've got.

A

Some we've had some dialogue back and forth in terms of just the logistics of how do we do this.

A

You know how do we present this information and how do we disseminate it to the members.

A

Of the acc and all that so I just want to let the other municipal agencies know that we've had that.

A

Conversation and we're happy to kind of bring you in to the loop on that. If you have questions about.

A

How do we, you know just like how does this work, um let us know, and- and we can you know, chat with you.

A

About that either on the record off the record and I'm sure lieutenant double bliss will have his own.

A

um You know information from his end of things. You know, since he's the one that's putting it.

A

Together, what does it look like from his end to do that and present that case to us, so just know that.

A

You know we're here as like a resource for you, so I'll just go down the line and um chief ledwell.

A

Thank you for this, so chief level has presented us with basically a list of everything. That's gone on.

A

Since the last meeting from your agency standpoint, this has really helped thankful to me when I go.

A

To put together the annual report for the pab, because it gives me a little bit of statistical.

A

Analysis which, as we know, people always like to have statistical analysis as to what happens so.

A

um To the extent that you have the capacity within your agency to do like a little bullet point great.

A

If you can't, I understand, because everybody's tapped out so, but I just throw that out there.

A

So I'll let you go first and kind of bring us up to date on anything that you have. That might be.

A

Coming you know down the pipeline for acc as well sure, so we do have one okay and it's listed on.

F

Here as internal investigation, okay, so once we complete the investigation, we'll be in contact.

F

With the acc great for that process, we also are in the process of scheduling a trial board in case.

F

That was from last year right and um that's not an acc case, but it will obviously utilize going.

G

Into the trial board, so all the logistics have been worked out on that trial board and I know.

F

um E-Prosecuting attorney for um our department is working on scheduling it. At this point, great.

F

As you can see from our statistics, uh it's been a busy quarter, yeah um I'll actually start at.

F

The bottom section, that's just something that we do administratively, we track our arrests.

F

When we don't chart or book somebody, we track all of our investigative detentions and then.

F

We track all of our searches that uh involve one of the warrantless search exceptions, so.

F

That's really all that is in addition to the police report, that the officer completes the.

F

um Supervisor then initiates an administrative review. That goes all the way up through me and it.

F

Just makes sure that we're policing best practice we like can identify an issue if it occurs and.

F

Take corrective action before it becomes something. So that's what the final section is in there.

F

Above that, our use of four supports this is a an unusual number of use of force incidents.

F

um All within policy following review, um uh and one thing that you mentioned with.

F

Looking at the body, worn camera footage with the sheriff's office case, uh you know, I think.

F

The the footage is very telling, and I think our review of the cases that we've looked at with.

F

These uses of force, our officers, are using extraordinary patience, de-escalation skills.

F

um I think they're doing a exceptional job with with all of that, um if you look at how we have.

F

It listed on the left of the sequential order. That's our tracking mechanism. The data occurred.

F

The type of force that primary type is listed there for you, then our finding would be either.

F

It's within policy or not within policy right and then a few notes uh regarding what what the.

F

Facts of the the use of force involved, um the the second to last one involved. Multiple agencies.

F

That was the one that occurred in the hospital er waiting room, but the gentleman actually showed up.

F

There with a shotgun, a loaded shotgun, so uh we responded as a backup agency to that, but.

F

If you have any questions about any of these uses of force, I'd be happy to answer them yeah. This is.

A

Helpful, okay, very good and then the top section. We not only track our internal investigations.

F

But we track everything, both an inquiry and a complaint that we get and we keep a sequential.

F

uh Tracking mechanism of that and the reason we do that is so that we can provide answers if anybody.

F

Questions us or says: hey, you didn't do this or you did that with our our issue. We can go back and we.

F

Can say: okay, here's how it was handled and and here's what actually happened and right. um So we.

F

We keep that um so you'll see that I'll write that it was either externally generated or internally.

F

Generated and whether it was just an inquiry or whether we considered it a complaint of misconduct.

F

So that's what those are and then under the finding um you'll see the outcome. Several of these.

F

Involved are dispatchers. um The only external complaint that is an investigation is the final.

F

One and that's the one I spoke of okay, so that's the one that will be coming to the acc once we.

F

Complete that okay, uh finding okay and then the the I think, it'll be at the at our june meeting.

A

Or later we should wrap it up quickly. It's not a complicated okay. All right thanks great! Thank you.

F

And so a couple other real quick points. We have the apex virtual reality system.

F

That you guys used at mptc okay, so we acquired that so that we could put our officers through.

F

Scenario based training, there's a mandate now in the maryland legislation that we have to do.

F

Shoot don't shoot scenario based training annually and so we're going to accomplish that. In addition,.

F

To our in-service training, with with those apex, so mptc staff is coming up. I believe this month.

F

To train our firearms instructors on some of their experience using that system, so we're.

F

Going to be using it, and the second thing is the the headphones schizophrenic hearing is actually.

F

Something called hearing voices right, yes, which is a block of instruction that all of our crisis.

F

Intervention team training officers go through. It was interesting, so yeah, fascinating stuff.

A

Yep, so unless you have any questions for me, that's no. Thank you. Thanks for the updating, I.

E

Forgot one yeah: uh this is just food for thought. Something to think about um is when we get a case.

E

Whether the uh either the sheriff or the or the chief of the agency wants to make.

E

A recommendation along with it, in other words, you do the investigation and you say.

E

This is what I recommend right. It doesn't mean we have to do that, but certainly it would be.

E

Helpful yeah we would find that helpful and what our intent is. It'll probably depend on.

A

The circumstances, but generally we're just going to keep that recommendation off the table until.

A

We make our own decision and then we'll see if we, you know how far off the mark, we are.

A

um Just for our own sort of we were, you know we weren't too far. We were pretty close to everybody.

A

Else when we did our two case, studies in the at the um training, some of the other jurisdictions.

A

That it was fascinating, there was one that was like whoo, they went off the rails and down a.

A

Road and to the you know beyond, it was very interesting to see, so I think we're in good.

A

Shape all right, so one question: if I can so is there efforts within all the departments.

C

To expand the crisis, intervention training to all officers, I mean, I think, that's probably something.

C

We should be thinking about because it seems to me to be there's a huge mental health crisis.

C

In many of these events, and and I know, we've had department where individuals are trained and and.

C

They've made I mean it's, it's been a difference, it's been a game changer, so I didn't. I just had.

H

To get a block of it in the police academy, but yeah I mean the health department works with us.

H

Every year to put on a full-scale class even down to the detention center deputies, because they're.

H

Dealing with these folks that we bring in so yes, there is, but um we're all down manpower and it's.

H

Not easy to send someone for an extended period of time, so we do the best we can to get everybody.

H

Train the way they should, if a police academy type of training situation is good, but then you need a.

H

Little bit of experience, understanding what you're looking at for this training to really set in, but.

H

uh But yeah story is a concerted effort and I don't know how many I think we've got quite a.

H

Few yeah we've had a lot of turnovers, so a lot of our. Unfortunately, our cit trained officers.

F

Have moved on, but our goal is to train everybody in cit. It's it's a well. You have to have mental.

F

Health first aid: that's a prerequisite right and you should have some policing experience before.

F

You go through that and it's a 40-week course so 40 hours yeah, I'm sorry 40-hour course. Sorry! I.

A

Was going to say, that's, that's yeah, there's a lot yeah. Did you get a degree after that or something.

A

Maybe some rotating effort to you know. I know it's a challenge, I'm not minimizing that, but.

A

Yeah, I think the more officers we can get just because of shifts like then your cit guys might.

C

Not be available when things are going on and as far as bringing in the instructors, so we have to.

F

Have specialized instructors who conduct that and as sheriff's talking about a lot of them work for.

F

The health department, so what they've done is they schedule an annual cit entry level which.

F

Is the full course okay and then they do a monthly refresher where they bring in our officers, because.

F

We have to go research on it right, so they they're constantly rotating our officers through the.

F

Monthly research training, which is a smaller block of instruction, but we have to coordinate that with.

F

Not only the health department but there's some non-profits that bring in individual instructors.

F

And people with experience and individuals suffering from some of the mental health.

F

Disorders, so it takes a lot of logistics to put it together, but we try we're trying to get everybody.

F

Trained on right, well, whatever we can do to help advocate for that, if you need more resources.

C

I mean you know by all means: let us we were the first case and I've spoken with most of the chiefs.

H

um The first acc case, so uh our experience was um excellent. I thought lieutenant devopas does.

H

A good job with preparing the cases, the style and manner which we presented the case, I think.

H

Was appropriate, it was more of a like a grand jury style of of presentation, a good question.

H

And answer back and forth: it's all there for you, some of the discussions that we had before that.

H

First case was how to secure the files they're they're, very personal investigations, there's a.

H

Lot of information in there about about individual or individuals, and we wanted to make sure that we.

H

Just didn't hand over an entire case file and then all of a sudden, we don't know where it's at after.

H

That so we had discussions, and I appreciate the fact that you guys went back and forth with us to.

H

Make sure we laid the groundwork down for future cases that that come before you, so we're going to.

A

Work on that company financiality agreement too at our next meeting, so yeah we'll have something.

A

Like a tangible form, but overall and and it was mark that presented it- um I don't know that there.

H

Was anybody else here? I think it was just mark and yeah it was, and he presented the case for you and.

H

um The decision that you guys made was exactly what we we thought should have taken place and so.

H

um Our experience overall, I think, was- was really good. um I think for us just the you know, it may.

H

Seem, I guess, monotonous for you to sit here and explain how your training went, but I think it's.

H

Important that you, you tell us what you went through, because it tells us that you're serious.

H

About this, because these are people's lives that you're dealing with- and there are so many people.

H

That I've heard horror stories around the state. Some of my colleagues about advocates sitting.

H

On these, these boards that are advocating for one thing or another, and we just want smart.

H

People that that understand how to process this stuff make a good quality decision and then and.

H

Then we move on so I appreciate the fact that you guys took it seriously and you're right. You can't.

H

Replicate what you went through ever again, because all five of you went through it and together.

H

um Yeah and that's just gonna well and you know I can tell you that the.

A

um Just my personal opinion of the five of us working together, it just really couldn't have.

A

Worked out better because everybody brings their own sort of skill set to this group, and you know.

A

This one has gotten in on the weeds and so he's looking at our rules of procedure and and policy.

A

Which is fabulous and dean has an I.t. You know mind so he's cued into those security concerns.

A

um Timbre's, a fabulous leader she would have been here this morning, except she actually had.

A

To work she had to go to work today so um uh and judd, and I have kind of that legal component and.

A

So it just it's a nice team, so I feel very fortunate to have the acc that we have so I.

E

Think the I think the confidentiality focus that you guys brought to us sheriff was really good.

E

Because we took that basically and are building it into a confidentiality agreement that we.

E

Signed right, but if you go further, the the law on regulation say that if confidentiality is violated.

E

The commissioners can dismiss us right, it's that serious, so you have to go into this. Knowing that.

E

You're talking about personal stuff, you're talking about people's livelihoods and you got to take it.

E

That way, if you don't, you shouldn't, be doing this job right, you shouldn't and we I think that that.

H

This board and the current set of chiefs that we have um work so well together. I I think that the.

H

The language that the opportunity to write uh policies and procedures that that uh can stand.

H

The test of time, regardless of who's sitting in your positions and in our positions, to make sure.

D

This is done fairly is, is extremely important. Yep keep it consistent yeah, absolutely so, but I.

H

Appreciate you guys taking the training seriously the way you handled our first case. um It wasn't.

H

Earth-Shattering, it was a right, it was a case that really was a good case for us and sift through so.

H

um An appropriate the deputy accepted it and we're all moving on and that's kind of the way it should.

H

Be handled exactly yeah, I have nothing for you. That's coming. um I do have a case that um other.

H

Counties working on for an intern, a trial board, but um that's nothing that the acc um has any.

H

Any worry about, but overall I appreciate right now how this has been handled up to up to this.

H

Point I don't expect anything different moving forward. Any questions of you have a question.

C

Here sure, so one of the one of the things that it says here is to on a quarterly basis, review.

C

Outcomes of disciplinary matters considered by the charging committee. So what is our role in that.

A

Good question right so well, the outcome was we made our recommendation as to the appropriate.

A

Level of disciplinary action and we forwarded it to the states or to the sheriff's department.

A

And they, then you know either did was there any up or down modification. So I think the.

H

Efficiency in how you handle it is equally important right, there's going to be times.

H

When you're going to have to sit through very complex and difficult places, the efficiency in.

H

Getting us, the outcome is very, very important and then that's presented right to the deputy.

H

After I look at it and colonel hart looks at it and we're fine with with that decision, we don't.

H

Increase it then we move on so the sheriff's office did not increase that disciplinary.

A

Level so and the officer apparently accepted that disciplinary action so there's no trial.

A

Board so there's like on that, there's like a there's, a disciplinary matrix that yes.

C

Right and you know, f is serious and a or common matters right. So when the decisions.

E

Made is within one of those categories, you know a b or c or whatever, and then within that same.

E

Category, the chief or sheriff may decide well, you know, maybe they weren't tough enough right.

E

So they're all you know you can't take an a in making an f, but you can make it tougher right.

E

So right now I understand that I'm thinking from this board's position is, would we be seeing those.

C

uh Outcomes! No because then how are we going to review that? That's? My question is: what is.

C

Our role here, because since we're just starting this out, I'm just trying to be clear. Well, the.

C

Way it says in the maryland code, it says on a quarterly basis, the p, a b right will review the.

C

Outcomes of disciplinary matters- I'm assuming this is an outcome of a disciplinary matter.

C

Correct right, so would we review that? That's I'm just asking I'm not going to review the the.

A

Pab does not review the case, not the case, but the outcome, and I guess what the point of that.

C

Is is to see trends in the outcomes of these cases, and I have no idea if that's accurate.

C

I'm we're all learning this on the fly here, so I'm just asking mr burke got any opinions.

C

Yeah we do the same thing in internally mike and I came from the state police, so you could have a.

H

Miracle in the shore that's disciplining one way and a barrack out west, that's giving the.

H

Same exact case that comes in front of them, so we, the matrix, we've been working with, since I don't.

H

I can a long time a long time, so we we've understood matrixes since the beginning of.

H

Time they were a through e, not f, um and we knew dnes were the most serious. A b and c was called.

H

Summary punishment we could handle the summary punishment, but what was the consistency? Part.

H

Of that was a guy or a girl that was doing what this deputy did. If the exact same case.

H

Existed on the eastern shore, were they given a a a written reprimander? Were they given a day and.

H

Was there consistency and punishment, consistency and findings, and I think, ultimately, tim. I think.

H

That's what your legislative charges to make sure there is consistency in how these things.

H

Are are being dealt out right? I think that that's true, and also the uh the board should be aware if.

D

Every one of these cases end up in in exonerated I mean that's something: the police, accountability.

D

Board would be interested in, I think so. From that standpoint I think the information is is relevant.

D

To the accountability board well, and also so you know, frankly, the review of disciplinary actions.

A

Like we see you know, the acc is going to see this amount. The rest of them are going to be.

A

Handled within each department, because they're not matters that come before the the acc as a.

A

Body so when we get this kind of information, this is helpful too right, because then we this allows.

A

Us to kind of so that's why, like a little bullet point, is helpful that allows us to kind of see.

A

Like oh, is there a certain thing, that's popping up, or is there a certain you know to identify.

A

Those patterns, but from from so from this case the the officer was administratively charged.

A

And then so so that was the other part of the training that was extraordinarily helpful in.

A

Terms of like keeping the flow and the flow chart by the way for the municipal agencies, if you don't.

A

Already have it on your website: we've got it on the county website now. So you know kipp county.

A

Attorney's office, a call we can put in touch with the I.t department and probably get that.

A

Information to you quickly, but you know once once an officer once we review the case, the acc reviews.

A

The case we have to decide are we charging? Are we not charging if we're charging, then we go to.

A

The matrix to determine what is the appropriate level of disciplinary action, then we send our.

A

Recommendation to the agency to then either bump it up if they feel it's appropriate or or go with.

A

It and then the officer gets the opportunity to say okay, I accept this or I want to trial, for it.

A

We don't administratively charge, then we have various options in that scenario, which are are.

A

We going to exonerate that officer. Are we going to find that those? What are the three there's.

A

Three there's a number I mean yeah right, and so there are often nuances of situations where.

A

There's no doesn't rise to the level of charging, but there might have been something going on there.

A

So it it allows a little wiggle room for us to kind of give that information to the agency when.

A

We send back the decision if we're not charging. We weren't charging, because that person didn't have.

A

Appropriate, you know officer supervision, and that officer was just following what he or she thought.

A

Was the appropriate thing, and that was the failure in that scenario, and so that's information that.

A

Then the agency can take and go oh okay. Maybe we need to think about how we address that particular.

A

Situation, but it's going to be, you know, each situation is so unique that it's hard to always.

A

Say this is going to happen here, and this is going to happen here, but so we did in that particular.

A

Case administratively charged and recommended what was the level of disciplinary action that.

A

We recommended do you can reprimand. It was okay, the b or c. Was it b? Was it a b level? I was. I can't.

H

Remember it would have been a b. It happened to be a b or c if it was a good reprimand yeah. So we did.

A

A we recommended a represent, but the grand jury style of being able to present. I suspect that not.

H

The prince george's counties, montgomery county's, baltimore cities different. They won't be able to.

G

Do that right, because there's so few cases that come through here we're able to sit and mark knows.

H

The case or your detectives or your investigators would know the case inside and out. It's presented.

H

To the to the acc and we're able to then go through a thumbnail of hey chronologically, this is.

H

What happened this is what we learned judd being a defense attorney was able to grill, mark and and.

H

So hearsay is admissible. In these these cases we were able to get opinions out what we had seen.

H

So there was a really good picture of not only what took place but also of the deputy themselves.

G

Yeah, what we knew about the deputy and the back story and how this all took place so that you.

H

Could have the information, then you had all the information that you could sift through and and.

H

Review and then give us the decision. I can tell you there's no doubt my mind. That's going to be.

H

Different, probably not the majority of the counties throughout the state. What they're.

A

Probably going to get so when we did the training, the two scenarios that we did or the two cases.

A

That we reviewed in the training for one we just had a written report right. We just went from work.

A

And then the other one, we had a written report that and we also had a video camera worn. You.

A

Know footage so that was it there was no now we we could ask questions. Well, you know the.

A

Interesting thing about that case was: without the camera. You would have thought differently.

A

You write the report and you see the body camera and it brought a whole new perspective in case.

E

Of a guy who was, for example, was smoking on on translate property yeah, so the the officer's.

E

Response in this was I'm going to come over there and kick your ass. That was the first words out of.

E

His mouth and it just went from there, but you didn't. You wouldn't get the flavor of that from.

E

Reading the report right, it was totally different. It was fascinating. It was really fascinating. The.

E

uh Funny the other thing about the results- and this was kind of drilled into us- that.

E

Officers are concerned because they can't have these records expunged like they could in the past.

E

Right, so when you, when you make a finding either four charge them or not, charging them, it's there.

E

So even unfounded cases, it's the most asinine thing. I've ever seen. It is what it is right.

E

What we heard, what the feedback they're getting is officers are really concerned about this, so it's.

E

Important that if we don't charge that we actually, you know, put that on the record, so somebody that.

E

Asked for that record or can get it get access to it at some point can see. Okay, the the right.

A

Exactly I said this didn't happen right, so that's all along circuitous route. To answer the question.

A

So that didn't answer the question that didn't answer the question. So my point so my point being.

C

Is we are going to see? I think we need to see the outcome of these based on what this is saying.

C

So once this outcomes determined, then it will be sent to the accountability board and say we don't.

C

Need all the details of the case, I don't think I don't think we're entitled to that. Based on what.

C

I'm seeing here, but it says, but it says that on a quarterly basis we will review the outcomes of.

C

Disciplinary just the outcome right doesn't say about the whole case or whatever how we came to.

C

That outlet, but I don't know how that gives you a true picture of what's going on in the police.

C

Department, I totally agree if the only thing you're seeing now tom's giving you everything that.

H

Happens in his police department, yeah, I'm an open book and I had I don't know rich- will tell you how.

H

Many cases I give it all to you and you can sit there and look at the outcomes of all my cases if.

H

The law is saying only the outcomes of acc cases, that's it and it's very short-sighted and what's.

C

Going on that's exactly so, I'm trying to distance understand what is our role here and in the.

C

Absence of some training for this particular board is avoid right. So I'm thinking, if we're trying to.

C

Figure this out as we go. This might be something this may eventually develop into one board. I can.

C

See, I'm not sure that there's a need for two to be quite honest with you p a b and an acc, but.

C

Well, then, we got to determine those separate roles absolutely, but as process goes by so all I'm just.

C

Trying to do is identify what is my role in this process and right now. This says here to review.

C

The outcomes of disciplinary matters considered by the charging committee so like to your point.

C

It would be very difficult to understand how this came, but to tennis point I guess we want to see.

C

These as because, once we start to see at least a pattern will develop like, like you were saying.

H

I guess it's is your legislative charge overall accountability of police agencies when it comes.

H

To disciplining, or is your legislative charge only matters that deal with the acc and those.

H

Are two different terribly different things when it comes to looking at a police department right.

C

And I think I'm trying that's, I'm really trying to figure out what our role is here. If that's, okay,.

C

I mean because it just you know and again, like I highlighted these, the next one is identifies any.

C

Trends in the disciplinary process of police officers in the county and then two makes.

C

Recommendations on changes to policy that would improve police accountability in the county, yeah.

C

Right so I'm just these are kind of our three main things beyond appointing a civilian.

C

Charging committee right and then to receive the complaints, but I think I'm kind of trying.

C

To just figure out what our, what our options of review, how do you actually do this job in terms.

A

Of reviewing from this quarter, that's that's it one case, but will we get that like in writing or.

C

Something we don't actually have like. I don't. I mean I kind of got your thing, but I'm not going.

C

To remember this a month a quarter from now: no, we can put it in the minutes yeah. So that's the only.

C

Way we're going to get it, are we going to get it and then it'll be something like I mean we'll just.

C

Keep all the minutes and we'll go through that way, because I'm guessing at some annual point.

C

You're going to look at these things and say: well, this happened and this happened and this.

C

Happened so it would be kind of nice to maybe start creating a major development instead of.

A

Just in the minutes, because if it's just in the minutes, we're going to have to go back through and.

C

Scour the minutes for all these things, if we could get like a thing started by the end of the year, my.

A

Suggestion to going forward- because this is a work in progress, yeah right so yeah yeah. So this is my.

A

Suggestion that would be helpful from our ends. To then have a little summary from each agency. You.

A

Know so think about this for our next quarterly meeting, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna make you give.

A

It to me in between real, quick stacy. This is just yeah. You have to understand that yeah from your.

A

Department, if I, if I'm not mandated to give that to you, I'm not giving it to you. So so what what.

H

Are and I'm not I'm not saying that I'm going to do that right, I'm just saying if we don't put what.

H

What they're supposed to be doing and what overall, is supposed to happen in some sort of policy, an.

H

Agreement amongst us all, I'm just going to give you what I'm, what I'm mandated to give you I'm not.

H

Mandated to give you all this yeah just what what is acc matter, I'm gonna tap. Mr burke. Let's work on.

A

Figuring out from a legislative intent perspective and maybe other jurisdictions, what are they.

A

Collecting in terms of information from the agencies- yes, just a note: I've met with some.

D

Other county attorneys and one of the complaints of their police accountability boards is, we don't.

D

Have anything to do so, everybody's struggling with uh yeah? What the roles are between the two bodies.

D

And the the duties of the police accountability board yeah are and again, as you read, the the law.

D

Is not particularly enlightening in this area right they they didn't answer all the questions.

A

Clearly before they passed the statute, and so what I would like to do is instead of having the.

C

Individual departments I'd like to create kind of our own one of these versions for.

C

um For us just right for us to track it, so when this disciplinary matter, this will be our first.

C

One it'll be boop right, 2023 right this, and this is what the outcome was yeah. That's all this says.

C

Beyond that, I don't know what that means right, and I don't know what value it'll be we'll figure that.

A

Out as we go through, obviously the legislation again, this is just starting so yeah and we're.

A

A small jurisdiction carroll county is a smaller jurisdiction, so we're not going to have the same.

A

Level of uh review that anne arundel county is going to have correct and I'm guessing as.

C

The legislative intent develops: that's when we could figure out what was their intent of this.

C

Then we'll at least have the stuff yeah. You were in this business a little bit yeah finding what.

H

Their intentions absolutely awesome, I'll talk to some legislators and try to figure out what.

C

On god, screen earth, were you what do you? What do you want from us? Well, they said they were getting.

E

Feedback because people thought the pabs supposed to do what the acc does correct a lot of people.

E

Put their hand up and said, I want to be on the pab right when they got appointed to the b.a.p.

E

It was like buyers remorse. I didn't really want to do that. I really wanted to do what bear just did.

E

Right right, so I think what you're saying is is um that I talked about earlier. It's it's all new.

E

There's no precedent, there's no case law, there's no nothing. So what we create is something that has.

E

To work with all these people right, I don't think we're going to have a lot of cases. No acc cases.

C

Here, no, no, oh and I'm perfectly happy not having any less work to do right. So don't misunderstand:.

C

That I'm just making sure I'm actually doing what I'm supposed to. Because I don't want somebody to.

C

Come up later and say you know, you were supposed to review that and I'm like what I mean. Somebody.

E

If you go to some of the pabs they're they're, I'm not suggesting this, so don't misread me.

E

They're they're going out and doing public hearings and they're doing all this stuff. They.

E

Have very high paid staff right. It's a different scenario. They haven't done one acc case.

E

But there's an annual report requirement for the pab to report kind of trends and recommendations.

B

Into ian's point, it's very difficult to do that with one case a year that comes, of course, to the.

B

Question you know, I think the intent thing needs to be answered because you, if we have a form where.

B

It's like okay, it didn't come before, but we see a trend in right, dispatcher issues or something.

B

Then at least there's another trend: it's not an ac station, and so maybe one way we can do that.

A

Is to make it a summary, I don't know we'll work on it we'll work on it. I think also the law is.

F

um And I I think we're you're not going to see it in carroll county as much is that.

F

Citizens can can complain directly to the pab sure. I think that occurs when there's a lack of trust.

F

Within the police agencies, so if they feel like, I can't go to chief ledwell and make.

A

It and have a response, so I'm going to get to the pab and make a complain and then there's a.

F

Process for how that's handled it goes to the acc et cetera, so we haven't had any of those.

F

Occur here, so that's probably why there's a lack of yeah yeah activity right all right.

A

I'm gonna let sykesville go next. Tell us what's happening down there good morning. Yes, not too,.

I

Much just a couple, quick updates. uh We realized we had a glitch in our ia pro, which I think is.

I

What tom uses for many of the other departments use it for our internal affairs tracking and.

I

Within our public portal, okay, we set it up so that myself and my lieutenant would receive an.

I

Email anytime, somebody went on the public portal and made a complaint or a compliment, and we found.

I

Out that that wasn't happening and the reason we found that out was we had two compliments on our.

I

Portal, as well as one complaint about a parking violation that we hadn't addressed and we're like.

I

Oh, my god, when they've been on there for like a month or two right, so we fixed that glitch. So.

I

Now we've already tested it now, anytime. Somebody goes on the public portal and makes a complaint.

I

Or a compliment yeah and we'll get notified of it. That'll allow us to address it in a more timely.

I

Fashion, so that's a good thing uh in terms of of discipline, really nothing significant. We had a.

I

Few minor in-house incidents that we dealt with one involved: employee grooming, once the trooper.

I

Always a trooper right, you know somebody didn't shave when they were supposed to, and so we dealt.

I

With that internally and another complaint or internal review of employee patrol vehicle.

I

Operation that we dealt with internally so empty push-ups, I think yes, 50 push-ups and some burpees.

I

But no, that's really all all that I have from beautiful downtown sykesville all right, great.

A

Well, that's always good all right good morning, good morning, how's everybody this morning, good.

G

What's the safest to say right now, we've had no citizen generated complaints right and we hope.

G

To keep it that way, um I have something under review and I'll be probably talking to some of.

G

You folks, later okay in reference to that, okay um for a little guidance; okay. But besides that.

G

That's about it, okay, good, any other disciplinary actions that are happening. Okay,.

F

Yeah, I have no updates and nothing to bring forward. Okay, okay,.

I

Nothing to report right right, all is quiet. Okay, great any questions from any of you as to.

A

Anything we're doing either acc or pab things that we can help you with.

A

General, yes, for the pending case that we're going to be submitting to the acc. Yes, logistically, how.

F

Is that sound? I know you've worked on some right flow charts, so um we do not have secure emails.

A

Yet the acc members, so I I'm gonna, tap lieutenant double best to maybe talk to you about what he did.

A

And how he he came and did a presentation, so it was grand jury style where he had. He had reports.

A

He had the video footage he gave us insight as to additional witness testimony that was given.

A

To him- and that was very helpful because he was there- we could, you know pick his brain. Ask him.

A

Questions about things that were not necessarily written word for word in the report, but that were.

A

Information that was helpful to us and coming to a decision. So I don't know if you have us like.

A

Do you, you have an internal affairs investigator correct for a city? Okay, so maybe have that person.

A

So that was that's scheduled at your, so our next right. Our next meeting is june 21st. So.

A

If your investigation is completed and ready to go, that's when we'll that's when we'll you know.

F

I'll just shoot you an email and let you know whether that's going to occur or not, then you.

F

Can plan for it right then right? Is it okay right and the county sets us up in a room where we've.

A

Got you know, we've got the tech equipment, so we can, you know, we'll, have a screen to display if.

A

There is any video footage that goes along with it or audio for that matter, um because some of it we.

A

Had was audio recorded so anything that you need in terms of tech support for that just you know.

A

I'll communicate with mr burke, but you know, keep us in the loop in that and we can get that set.

A

Up for you, okay, thank you all right. Anybody else have any other matters for the good of the order.

H

That's for maybe my my folks mark or anybody yeah.

H

Okay, mr burke, anything to add yes, I wanted to give the chiefs and the sheriff an update on the trial.

D

Board process the county assigned the contract with the office of administrative hearings in hunt.

D

Valley they're, going to provide the administrative law judge for for these trial boards. We looked.

D

And looked for a retired judge there just aren't any so they charge 200 an hour. The county picks.

D

That up the trial boards will be in probably hunt valley. Remember we used to do the traffic.

D

Tickets and all that stuff there, they have all the equipment that probably makes sense. They probably.

D

Have all the equipment you need in video, so I I signed the contract and I contacted them last.

D

Week and they're going to get me back this week, a signed contract I'll get a hold of you two. I.

D

Guess you have stuff pending and I'll get you the contact information for mr frye who's, our county.

D

Trial board member- and I guess you guys- can work with oah and get it set up. Does that make sense.

D

So again, it's 200 an hour so be brief.

A

Well and the other part of the other part of what we can do as a pab. Now that I've got a.

A

Better handle on all this jazz is the next time we have a budget hearing with the county.

A

I went mr burke asked me to come and sit in so I I went. I had my grandson with me.

A

Because I was on grandma duty that day so hopefully he won a few points, but.

A

um You know the county commissioners need to understand that all this stuff takes money.

A

And from the agency's perspective, especially the smaller agencies, they don't have the money.

A

To come up with all the tech and all of the you know, paying of the of the. If there's a mediation.

A

Fee, even if you use the mediation now that state is apparently working on coming up with some free.

A

Mediation programs, but if it doesn't rise to the level of going to the acc, but you need a mediator.

A

You still gotta, you know, so I think that that's going to be an ongoing conversation that we as.

A

The pob can be in the role of saying hey: how about creating a pool of funding so that when they need.

A

Additional you know: crisis intervention, training, there's a there's, a pot of money there that the.

A

Agencies, the law enforcement agencies can tap into, and you know make those make those programs happen.

A

So I mean that's kind of where I view our role frankly as resource support as well yeah. Let's.

A

See what what what those on the ground need to make their jobs better so that then it you know.

A

The accompanying benefit to that is that allows the citizens to go. Oh okay, now we've got some.

A

Folks, who get this mental health thing great, you know it's challenging and that's that is not just.

A

Carroll county that is countrywide in terms of law enforcement, so um I've been doing a lot of reading.

A

Lately and all this stuff, I think the board needs to understand that these, when these go to a trial.

H

Board yeah, they look a lot like a district court or a circuit court hearing, whether it's a dui, a.

H

Murder case, or whatever it's just, that the rules of evidence are slightly different than what.

H

Is allowed but like tom's got a hit, the city of westminster has to hire an attorney to prosecute.

H

It exactly um tim has to hire an attorney or he's got an attorney internally. That prosecutes my case.

H

Right then, the aho gets their their money because even beforehand, there's motions of of things that.

H

Are acceptable statements, those sort of things that a defense attorney can challenge litigation.

A

There's a lot that goes on before the actual hearing takes place and it is expensive, yeah.

H

And, and what happens a lot is a deputy officer. Troop knows that these things take an awful.

H

Lot of time to put together and maybe up until the day of the case, they'll walk in and resign.

H

And we've already spent thousands and thousands of dollars getting it to this point and then.

H

They resign and in some cases, they'll they'll go forward. I have not had a trial board in this in.

H

Almost nine years I've been sheriff, I don't think any of these guys have had a trial board they're.

H

Just few and far between, but what has happened with all this legislation that has taken place.

H

Is that deputies officers troopers will now all but seek a trial board? We were surprised that.

H

After the acc case that our guy even took the the discipline and not going to right and not.

H

Going to a trial board, but but it is not an easy process for any of us to put together, and it's.

H

Going to cost a lot of money, so you're right on my end, so the county is paying for the aho.

H

But it's not paying for their attorneys when they've got a prosecuted case of one of their.

H

Their officers they're going to have to find an attorney externally to prosecute that case.

C

Well and one of the mandates was for the county to create a budget for this. That was one of the.

C

Legislative mandates, I'd ask you when I first started like hey: what's what's the budget and.

C

We don't have yeah, we so they're supposed to create a budget. Obviously they may have created.

C

One at zero, but that's obviously that did create the budget like stacy, said and put right: 160 170.

H

000 a year employees in there yeah, but they did not create budgets for prosecuting or even looking.

H

At these cases they have no clue. I think that's. A very important point is for our role to be to.

C

Find out like because personally, in my opinion, if we can get some mental health additional crisis.

C

Intervention training and you guys could use that resource. But if you needed the money to facilitate.

C

That I mean that's where that's one of the things that should be on the radar saying: hey more more.

C

Crisis trading could happen if we had more dollars. So I don't know, but that's one of the things.

C

um You know great, so they need to get a budget. There needs to be some funds for this thing, so.

A

Yeah so think about that too, for maybe the next quarterly meeting are there programs.

A

And how much would you need so that we can begin kind of putting together an idea of.

A

The next budget cycle, what we would want to present to the commissioners, not that almost.

C

Needs to be at the next meeting, because the way budgets work right, mr burke, has a we actually.

D

Will have a budget in july of fifteen thousand dollars the board members will get a stipend of.

D

Was it 125 dollars right yeah? I think that's right we're meeting uh so we're getting there.

D

Right but in terms of you know from our standpoint may be working to to.

A

Request, you know, like a pot of money pot of money, you know a fund of some sort that could.

A

Be set aside, for maybe grants to individual municipalities. I don't know we can talk about.

A

That we can think about that, but that would be the next question is: when would you need that? Because.

C

I know from our perspective you needed budget items in like september. They usually address.

H

All that around december, but but so it would have to be, unfortunately tim's office yeah. It makes the.

H

Budget request, it wouldn't be me or it wouldn't be hr or anything like that. It would have to come.

H

Through right, yeah, that's absolutely that's why I was asking: when would you need that for your for.

C

You next year next meeting I mean preferably okay, all right so yeah. If you guys can think of stuff.

A

Where so, you know if there are certain things that are out there, that would be helpful. Let us know.

A

We're happy to happy to work on it.

A

Anybody else have anything. I just got two other quick things so you're saying the county. Has this.

C

Citizens, you go to the police, accountability, board, you'll see or the charging committee.

A

Either one you'll see that there are um the the flow chart is on there. There are links back and.

A

Forth all the minutes are on there, so yeah check up check the the county website. That's the carroll.

B

County website, yeah and then last of all last question for me, is the is the process for filing.

C

Complaints in the time frame of outcomes posted on all your guys, uh websites and stuff- I guess well.

A

We uh before we started, I let everybody know that if they need that flow chart and the flowchart is.

A

Pretty good in terms of it's pretty basic, I think it's helpful from a citizen standpoint to see what.

A

Actually happens when they file a complaint. So if you don't have it on your website and you want it.

A

Mr burke's office know- and they can put you in touch with it and get get that so that you can.

A

Adopt that the complaint forms I know we talked about that the last time you know all I and I.

A

Reviewed the ones that everybody sent me, they all have the basic information and that's all you need.

A

Is really just the basic information? You don't need a lot of detail and so I'm less concerned.

A

About there being one complaint form for all, you know like a universal complaint form. I think what.

A

All the municipal forces have in place currently is is, is adequate, I mean it meets it's just like.

A

The one that we have in the website right, yeah, I'm just trying again this one yeah. I just wanted to.

C

Follow up on what this thing said, and it said the process for filing complaints and a time.

C

Frame for outcomes will be posted in a public area of each agency and on the agency's website. If it.

C

Maintains one right boom: yeah john, I was just asking if everybody's thinking all required to.

I

Have our policies on on online as well, and all of our policies contain that information that.

I

Information yeah, and so if you go on the websites, because I did, I went through the exercise, so I've.

A

Got it in my handy dandy, folder, but yeah you can find that's awesome. Okay, I think that's all. I got.

B

An update on how to communicate to hate to is it just those that happen to go on the.

B

Website and look around or is there going to be any other form of communication or.

B

Education, not that I'm aware of unless anybody has a specific plan. What that might look like.

A

Okay, I hear a motion to adjourn, make a motion when you turn a second. Second, all in favor.

C

Aye aye. Thank you all very much yeah. Thank you guys appreciate everything. Yeah.

A

I'll see you in a few months, our next meeting, oh yeah. Our next meeting is.

A

Next pab meeting is september 11th 10 o'clock, this room, I'm sorry september.