Carroll County, MD Board of County Commissioners Open Sessions, 1 Jun 2023

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From YouTube: Board of Carroll County Commissioners Open Session June 1, 2023

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov
Agenda: https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/commissioners/board-of-carroll-county-commissioners-weekly-agenda/

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Okay good morning, commissioner, ed rostian, it is thursday june 1st. I hope everyone had a good.

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And healthy long weekend um and ready to get back to business before we do.

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Get back to business as always: let's stand for pledge of allegiance and a moment of silence.

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Thank you pledge allegian pledge allegiance of the united states of america and to the.

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Republic, for which it stands under god, individual invisible with liberty.

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We have a handful of things to get through. We have a couple of.

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Priority excuse me um proclamations towards the end of our priority carol. So why don't.

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We start with, uh what's on our mind, uh commissioner figliotti, what's on your mind,.

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Thank you very much, commissioner rothstein. um So I uh last weekend I had the really exciting.

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Opportunity to visit uh union bridge for their annual dream. Big union bridge duck derby over a.

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Thousand ducks were launched in two separate races down little pipe creek union bridge councilwoman.

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And county development review technician, sherry, thompson, who's, heavily involved with the event and.

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Group was there on hand and the proceeds from the duck. Derby not only benefit dream. Big union bridge.

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But also reads across america and, as we know it's coming up in december, so this past weekend I had.

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The honor of speaking at the new windsor memorial day ceremony that was capably hosted by mayor neil.

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Roop and attended by members of boy scout troop 582.. I also had the really awesome opportunity.

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To meet new windsor resident angelica prestia, who personally volunteers throughout the year.

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To maintain that memorial, she does everything from pulling weeds to painting the planters and.

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You can see how beautiful that memorial is. I also wanted to take a brief moment to apologize to the.

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Residents of pleasant valley due to a scheduling mistake, I missed the opportunity to attend their.

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Memorial day celebration on sunday, I take total responsibility for that and I apologize from the.

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Bottom of my heart and I'm looking forward to attending next year. On monday, I had the.

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Honor of speaking at the memorial day ceremony in memorial park in taneytown, which is well.

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Hosted by newly elected mayor, christopher miller, members of the city council were on hand for that.

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Including councilwoman judy fuller, who personally volunteers to maintain their war memorial down to.

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Painting the the plaques, so this picture here is really uh really awesome. So during the ceremony.

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Mayor miller presented a state citation from delegate boucher to mr fred steinwedahl, who.

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At 94 years old is tawny, town's oldest living veteran, the guy is a class act, he's a good guy.

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He's a gentleman uh mr simadol enlisted in 1946 at the age of 18, served in the army air force married.

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His wife janity and had a family thereafter. It really was an honor to meet this gentleman.

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um Of course, I was also able to participate in the parade through tawny town, where our.

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Awesome delegate chris tomlinson and his awesome wife molly also made an appearance and there you.

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Can see uh newly elected mayor miller on the far left, newly elected councilman chris tillman to his.

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Left councilwoman judy, fuller, delegate, tomlinson myself and newly elected councilman, jim mccarron.

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uh And then this past wednesday and I'll, let others speak about this. I had the honor of joining.

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uh My fellow oh- and there is a I'm sorry, there's councilwoman diane foster in that last picture.

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uh Wednesday I had the honor of joining some of my fellow commissioners in bidding farewell to.

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Certain members of the board of elections and again I'll. Let them go into that and also as a.

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Brief reminder that it is carnival season for our volunteer fire companies, uh union bridges.

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uh uh Fireman's carnivals going on from today through this weekend. uh So if anybody is able.

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To get out to any of these carnivals, I strongly recommend doing it. It is a it's really, an awesome.

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Community event, but it's also the lifeblood of a lot of these volunteer companies. They absolutely.

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Depend upon community participation in these carnivals and that's how they're.

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Able to afford equipment and maintenance, and all these different things in order to help.

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Safeguard the the public, and that is it for me for today. Thank you, uh commissioner. Kyler.

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Yes, thank you um on a personal note, this past sunday over the holiday weekend, I had.

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Two grandchildren confirmed a church and it was just great, um not just them, but the other.

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Children, young adults that were being confirmed in the families and it's just great hampstead,.

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Memorial was monday and a great crowd that closed the street. So we spilled out onto the street and.

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Unfortunately, hampstead police had to remind us that they they eventually had to open the street.

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And we should probably get out of the way, but it went great. The board of elections that went great.

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um John woodley couldn't be there due to some family issues and I'm going to meet him and.

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Make sure he gets uh his paperwork and then you mentioned carnivals. You mentioned a bunch of.

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Other things graduations have started. We we all got to attend the community college. Graduation.

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That that that were available and could go to it, and that was great last night- was gateways.

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Which is um they're a smaller group, so they can do some things. The other.

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Graduate graduations cannot and- and it makes it really special- they have.

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Each graduate introduced come up on the stage with a faculty member who speaks for a minute and.

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A half two minutes on how they did throughout the process. It was very personable and it's.

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Interesting because some of the students, I think, almost appear nervous on stage. But when you think.

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About it, the average graduate in carroll county has about 30 seconds on the stage these guys had.

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Had maybe up to two minutes, so it was it's, it makes it a really interesting. Graduation.

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They do a great job with that school and all our schools, and then for um chris swam and and our.

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Other guys, uh I need to say I love carroll county. I love that we're recognizing some veterans today.

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I think they had to put that into the last meeting because I didn't say it and I'm I'm.

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Not sure I trust them with dubbing things and adding things nor with some of their.

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Photos, I think they're, it all leads to blackmail. Eventually, you need to keep them very close to you.

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Already have a folder on each one and nice, seeing you guys sitting in the back and we'll talk about.

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That a little bit more in a minute, I think I just had my photo taken watch what you asked for and.

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Be careful be careful with your hands where they go, so um I'm not sure uh gordon. Thank you um well.

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First, on uh monday, I attended the 156th annual memorial day, parade in westminster uh very heavily.

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Attended, as always, was great to see everybody turn out for that. uh We were very fortunate to have.

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Troop to 2007, as well as a number of other scouts, and also the westminster road runners, joined in to.

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Assist in carrying the american flag that has been seen for for decades uh previously with troop 381.

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So it was nice to see that tradition continued and very happy to to see that also on uh memorial day.

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I attended the memorial service at the westminster cemetery following the parade and it was. uh It was.

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An honor to meet brigadier general burkhead and talk to her briefly, as she also was one.

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Of the guest speakers at the event yesterday, as commissioner kyler had mentioned, the commissioner.

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Kyler commissioner vigliotti commissioner rossi and I were in attendance at the board of elections.

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Recognition event uh was quite a testament to the three uh outgoing gentlemen uh griffin manahan had.

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Served 20 years on the board of elections and as a volunteer position. I thought that was a.

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True testament to his concern and care for carroll county uh harvey tegler was there for eight years.

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And john woodley for four- and I think you know we have to really truly appreciate not only these.

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Three individuals, but the board of elections as a whole, given the fact that all of these individuals.

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The volunteers and the staff are dedicated to protecting the fundamental rights to voters.

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In carroll county- and I greatly appreciate all of their hard work and that's all I have today great.

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And a couple things just to share first and I'll hand it over to commissioner and garen is um had a.

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Wonderful memorial day over at the american legion in 223, uh the salute battery did a great job.

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Recognizing those that paid the ultimate sacrifice in wars uh uh all the way up until uh the most.

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Current, so that was that was a good event um to attend and uh mayor link- and I were both at that.

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um Last night attended the board of education uh facility brief, and this had to do with the board.

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Of education's decision-making process on two real actions, one has to do with redistricting and.

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Where the sark or the southern area, redistricting committee had made their recommendations and then.

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Also on potential um facilities and changes to facilities, the board of education decided to not.

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Move forward with redistricting at this time and not move forward with potential recommendations.

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But also, at the same in the same breath praised the um redistricting committee for all of their.

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Hard work, those that were volunteer from the community and also from our government staff.

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So I appreciate that they did make recommendations on changing facilities in both freedom, elementary.

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And sykesville middle school to accommodate the community as growth is happening in the southern.

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Part of the county um and their timelines and we're going to have to work through this, but their.

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Timelines was basically fy 25 through 29 or 30, but much more to follow on that. As things get, you know.

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Cleared up tomorrow, I will no, I apologize saturday, I will be attending. I appreciate you mentioning.

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General burkhead, because it reminded me I will be attending um the change of command between major.

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General tim gowan are actually in general to uh now major general burkett, and she was selected by.

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Mayor moore so uh I'll be attending that at the fifth armory in baltimore. The last thing I want.

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To share- and chris do you have that picture? So this is a picture it's actually a while ago um and.

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I had the opportunity to throw out a ball at camden yards. I've done it a couple times, but.

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This time was the initial one, and the focus should be on the young soldier to my right.

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Lewis and I'll just leave it as his first name, who is missing an arm and a couple of legs and uh what.

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I did was I found lewis there and I gave him the baseball and he threw it out to me and I threw it.

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To that's johnson uh to his right um and then we all came back and I gave lewis the baseball and.

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um The next year, when I was throwing the ball out, camden yards, they said, okay, what are you gonna do.

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Next, I'm, like I don't know, let me figure it out, but this was pretty special to me because I was.

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Like they're not going to say no to me they're going to, let me do what I wanted and I did this. I.

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Had my son sam with me, um and we had a great day, you know he was on the field and he got to meet.

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All the players and was in dugout for a while. We had a great time at the baseball game and driving.

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Home I asked him I said sam. You did all of these incredible, wonderful things. That day, you know for.

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Memorial day, what was the best part of memorial day? What was the best part of your day, and he said.

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Without hesitation, you know meeting lewis and it had nothing to do with the food. Had nothing.

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To do with the game, it had nothing to do with anything it had to do with a young man who put.

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Himself in harm's way and came back fortunately resilient enough to do the things he's doing.

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um Not to you know lie I did shed a handful of tears away from sam, so he didn't see, but I'm.

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Driving down 95- and I was like I- you know that that's what it's all about um you know memorial.

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Day, you know is not about those that survive, but those that do give the ultimate sacrifice.

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um But it was just a great reminder that you know um brothers and sisters in arms. It's a team effort.

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You know soldiers for life and, as I always say, like you say about carroll county, I always say.

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Life is good, and this is just a great reminder of that, so I just want to share you know kind of like.

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I said what's on our minds uh for the morning with that, let me hand it over to uh commissioner garen.

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And share with us what's on his mind right now, so commission again, thank you.

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Commissioner rossi, and thanks for allowing me to carve out a little extra time this morning,.

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um So good morning, carroll county, so one of the one of the the best, the best part of being a.

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Commissioner, is you get to meet the people and you get to get to know them and you get to know.

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That the work, what work they do, the programs they run, the volunteer groups and the community.

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The amount of work that really goes on here in carroll county, it's uh it's extraordinary and.

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That's for me, that's my favorite part about being a commissioner and it's also being exposed to the.

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Different programs and things like that that are out there to assist with the county uh and and.

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The 988 helpline, as we're calling it now is no exception. I was first exposed to it as a member.

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Of the opioid policy, uh I hope the old senior policy group, but I know it's been around for.

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For a while now, but it's really up and running quite nicely and I wanted to get involved with.

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It I took some training uh what they call people in the community in the county who are assisting.

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With 988 trying to get the word out there about it or carl ambassadors, and we actually have quite.

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A few in carroll, county and they're very active, so I commend them for that, but I want to take a.

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Couple minutes this morning just to talk about 988 and I've got the flyers out here in the front and.

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We've got a slide deck added, but the bottom line is is very simple. I just want people to understand.

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What 988 is how useful it can be and the more I get to understand what they're doing and talk.

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To the people that run the regional centers, it is truly impressive, so 998 it's a suicide.

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And crisis lifeline and, to be honest, there really trying just to get people to understand something.

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Very simple that it's a helpline: it is a helpline, it is a national network of local responders and.

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988 is a local responderal in central maryland and you can see down there at the bottom. What I meant.

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By regional there's, a regional conglomeration, it's baltimore city, baltimore, county carroll,.

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County and howard- and I have a slide for that as well, so you can go to the next one.

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Oh and there it is what's interesting about 988. Is it started out as a national network, but this.

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Is truly a regional network which I think makes it even more effective the calls I've been on it is.

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Truly, a regional effort: there are people from the state, I think there might even be people from the.

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Federal level on these calls, but the people that you're calling you're talking to when you call 988.

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Are part of what is called the greater baltimore regional integrated crisis system? It's called g.

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Bricks for short- and you can see there, how it involves baltimore city, baltimore, county howard,.

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And carroll county and when you're on the calls talking to the people who are running this program,.

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And you're talking to ambassadors, they truly are regional. They are in the communities they're in.

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The churches they're going to different events and they're trying to get the word out on 988. That's.

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Their sole goal, that's their goal, is to get people aware of this incredible service. That's available.

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To anybody with a phone all you got to do is hit 988, so you can go to the next slide. For me, chris.

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So the national network is uh again, I mentioned it's local helplines, providing.

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Free confidential support it's been around for a while, but as I mentioned, the g-brick.

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System and the 988 regional support is fairly new and what they're really accomplishing on.

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A very local levels: pretty astounding, uh it's staff, 24 7, for an immediate response.

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Callers are routed to their local call center and the calls are answered typically within 30.

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Seconds that number is actually lower. The last call I was on they had gotten those.

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Calls down to nine seconds so that just shows you how serious they're, taking this particular.

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Service they're also in the process, the people that are running this call center, regionally.

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They're now, finally, getting a lot of data they're, sifting through it um they're going.

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To be making what changes are needed and uh to the to the system itself, as the data comes in.

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Maryland has an 85 percent in-state answer rate, so that accounts for people who maybe call and hang.

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Up and things like that, so uh it is, it is pretty extraordinary service and again that's what this.

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Talk is about is to get people to be aware of it. It's 988. go to the next slide, for me is that it.

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I think it was okay yeah. So again, um what's and again, when you call 988 what you'll immediately.

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Get is a prompt to go to uh you know if you're, a veteran you can hit one, uh they have a spanish.

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Speaking uh uh number, if you're a spanish speaker, they have instituted a third number for uh lgbtq.

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Sub network for people that are calling in crisis uh or people who are wanting to speak about that.

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uh That issue in their lives and again uh this is truly an amazing service. The people.

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In the carroll county, health department have been working on this for quite some time again. We have.

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Ambassadors out in the community trying to raise awareness to get the 988 number out there and as.

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Usual, uh you know, as commissioners, we will always do whatever we can to help a good cause, and if.

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This isn't a good cause, I don't know what is I mean? It is saving lives, they're, getting a lot.

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Of phone calls, we all know that it's uh not tough, being a young person out there. Nowadays, it's not.

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It's not easy being a parent either, so that 988 number is available for anybody in crisis. Anybody.

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Who's dealing with issues of suicide. Anybody who needs help dial, 988, let your family know.

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About it, let your kids know about it. Grandkids relatives, it's an available service and I think.

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We're what we're all here to tell you is that it works and uh we're taking an active role in it. So.

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Again, commissioner rossi, thanks for the extra time absolutely, I appreciate it very much yeah.

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I I appreciate it and uh now I understand number one, because when I call the va for appointments.

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You get the automated call and it says if there are thoughts of suicide. Please hang up call 988.

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Star one now I know, and so every time I call the va, that's the first thing they say so and what's.

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Really interesting- and you see this last uh uh and thanks chris for leaving this up 988 is part.

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Of a community effort to reduce the region's historic reliance on law enforcement and ems.

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For behavioral health emergencies, I applaud the people who initially set this service up because.

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That is key. That is key number one. You want to get the best help you can, so this number is going to.

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Do it for you, but we all know what's also going on with our police departments and firing ems they're.

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Always there to assist, but this is the right number to call and again I appreciate the time.

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Absolutely thank you. Okay. um We have a couple of proclamations. I want to share this morning.

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Let's start with uh commissioner vigliotti, I think you have won on dealing with national trails day.

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Proclamation and jeff, if you want to come up to the table and bring whoever you'd like feel free.

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And go ahead. Thank you, commissioner. Rothstein.

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Mr jacobs, did you want to introduce everybody before I read the proclamation? Do you want to.

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Wait till after the proclamation, I could do it real quick for you and we have several people.

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From the carroll county, equestrian council, who are being very shy and not joining me at the table,.

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Thank you next to me is miss carolyn garber joe dragon is behind me, which worries me a little bit.

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And darlene welsh is here also lisa. Carroll is our bureau chief of recreation here this morning and.

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Jamie noel, who is recreation coordinator jamie, is our staff liaison to the equestrian council.

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Awesome so well, good morning to everybody. I will only read one, whereas this morning.

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To put everybody's minds at ease, proclamation national trails, day june 3rd 2023, whereas the.

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American hiking society's national trails day is june. 3Rd 2023 and national trails day is dedicated.

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To hometown trails and the people who love them and each year the carroll county equestrian.

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Council joins other organizations across the nation to recognize american hiking society's.

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National trails day and to showcase and celebrate carroll, county's, beautiful trails and in 1993.

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The carroll county equestrian council was one of 10 organizations nationwide and the only.

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Equestrian organization, recognized with the trails for tomorrow award from the american.

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Hiking society and carroll county appreciates the importance of recreation and active living.

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By providing places for people to spend time together in the great outdoors carroll, county's.

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Multi-Use public trails are available in every corner of the county, making trails part of our.

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Daily lives, our beautiful trails and parks, attract visitors and tourists create healthy.

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Opportunities for exercise and travel, as well as to stimulate economic developments and the board.

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Of carroll county commissioners recognizes the carroll county equestrian council for 30 years.

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Of participation in national trails day and thanks them for partnering, with carroll county.

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Recreation and parks to promote and care for multi-use trails in carroll county now, therefore,.

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We, the board of carroll county commissioners, do hereby proclaim june 3rd 2023 as national.

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Trails day in carroll county maryland and invite all citizens to observe this occurrence adopted.

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This first day of june 2023 signed to the entire board of carroll county commissioners.

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Okay, jeff: what's on your mind with all that said I'll I'll, be very brief and then I'll let carolyn.

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Talk about this a little bit, we were both involved in 1993 with this with the first submission and.

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The first national contest for that and I had the opportunity and the privilege to go out to.

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Reno nevada to accept the award on behalf of the equestrian council and, first of all, for.

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A county this size and an organization this size to be considered and to compete, and then.

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Ultimately, to win that award was a pretty special thing and being the only equestrian group, there.

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I had to learn a lot about a question related issue, so I didn't sound like an idiot when I went.

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Out there and just the importance of promoting trails and all the good things that come from.

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Trails really was a special experience. It was great recognition for the equestrian council. We.

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Were extremely proud of them, then we remain proud of them now and with that I'll turn it over to.

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Carolyn and you don't sound like an idiot, so keep going. Okay, 1993! Maybe please thank you for thank.

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You for this recognition, um the equestrian council has been active with reckon parks for quite some.

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Long time it's hard to believe, we've been doing trail work for 30 years. But if we as volunteers.

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Didn't continue to provide that volunteer effort, the trails would not be accessible in some areas.

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The trails that we maintain are the ones that are not the paved walking trails that are in.

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The sports related sports fields parks, I would say, they're the more natural areas. So thank you.

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For the recognition we we appreciate it and we appreciate the support of all of the volunteer.

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Recreation councils and- and you started when you were what six seven okay, just you know: okay,.

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um Yes, now I appreciate you know all the things you do so. Thank you. Any thoughts, comments.

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No okay, hey the backbenders, want to say anything or just they're. Looking strong, oh okay, they're the.

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Ones that started it they're, the ones that are the brains behind the organization and without them it.

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Wouldn't be here so you're not calling jeff a girl you're, not calling jeff a girl, no, no, no! No! No! Okay!.

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Okay, while we uh come down, get a proclamation, get a picture. Matt will come out from the magic door.

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J

Thank you. Congratulations.

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Okay, the uh the next proclamation, um if you're, going to 79th anniversary of the d-day landing.

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By the 29th infantry division, so whoever wants to come on up please come on up, have a seat.

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um And just let you know I am wearing the blue and gray, so you should be seeing that at least.

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Now I know you're all ain't, just a humble gentlemen, so you want to keep coming. You think.

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You can take one more sheets if you want we'll sit down. I thought you wanted me up there eventually.

C

So, who outranks? Who right now doesn't matter we're not in uniform.

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That was actually a good answer from top, so he he outranks and just tells him all where to go and.

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How to do it so, but uh this is a proclamation for the 79th anniversary of the d-day landing by the.

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29Th infantry division, whereas the 29th infantry division was founded in 1917, with regiments from.

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Maryland virginia for services in world war, one and fought bravely in alcase and muse.

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Argonne campaigns in france and 29th infantry division was again called into federal service.

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On february 3rd 1941 for world war ii and world war ii, the 29th infantry division played.

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A decisive role when it became part of the first and second wave of the u.s assault forces on omaha.

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Beach normandy, france, on june 6, 1944 known as d-day, the d-day landings turned to tide of world.

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War ii and marked the beginning of the end of nazi germany and the 29th infantry division fought in.

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Campaigns through northern france, rhineland and central europe until final victory on may 11, 1945.

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And as america marks the 79th anniversary of the d-day landing in world war ii, many.

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Of the veterans and their families will visit normandy, american cemetery. The final.

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Resting place for over 9 300 united states service members for commemorative services.

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And hundreds of veterans of the 29th infantry division reside in carroll county as well as.

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Many more who form the present day: 29th infantry division, association.

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Who've served in the global war on terrorism, we we honor those who've served and those who.

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Are still serving communities in carroll, county maryland and their nation at home and overseas.

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Now, therefore, we, the board of carroll county commissioners, do hereby proclaim june 1st 2023.

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To be 29th infantry division day in recognition of the 79th anniversary of the 29th infantry d-day.

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Landing in carroll county and urge all citizens to honor the services and sacrifice of these veterans.

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Adopted this first day of june 2023, signed by all commissioners and just share with you, my personal.

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I can send professional experiences being side by side with brothers and.

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Sisters in arms, in both iraq and afghanistan, wherein the 29th infantry division patch.

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You know it's it's one of those things it it doesn't matter uh if you're active duty or if.

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Your guard, or, if you're whatever, if you're there, carrying a weapon and putting yourself in harm's.

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Way, you just want to have confidence in left and right of uh those that you serve with you, didn't.

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Care if it was a d or an r, an I or anything else, you cared that they were well trained.

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And well positioned and I never had anything but the utmost respect and confidence that they were.

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At all times, and uh especially with some of the very difficult roles that um you collectively were.

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Were given um in both iraq and afghanistan, while I was there, so I remember it very distinctly.

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um So, thank you and again I'm wearing the blue and gray as I'm supposed to so, but any uh any thoughts.

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Comments beforehanded off I'd like to say someone quickly, great great, seeing so many familiar.

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Faces and uh donald graff and junior fisher and I actually served together and I know, donald they're.

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Not going to believe this because junior's so much younger than we are, but he was there with us.

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So anything else, gentlemen. What's on your mind, first off, commissioner, I can't believe.

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You own up to knowing junior fisher that comes as a shock. I just want to take this.

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Opportunity to thank each and every one of you, um as the commissioner said,.

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Tuesday will actually june 6, where max mark the 79th anniversary, but it's it started long.

K

Before that, you know many of these youngsters and that's what they were left home two years.

K

Before that and trained in trained in europe, you know they left the farms in the factories. uh You.

K

Know their neighborhoods and their families, and many many of them never made it home and.

K

As as the current commander of post 48 here in carroll county, which which I got by default,.

K

um We're just uh we're, just uh as you can see we're just a bunch of old veterans. um There's.

K

Not a there's not a whole lot that we're going to do to change anything politically or in the nation.

K

But we're just all we're trying to do is just keep the spirit. uh The 29th infantry division, alive.

K

um And I think most of you as you, as you know, we just dedicated a bridge on route.

K

32 down in between sykesville and gamber to uh joe farenholt, who was a four-time silver star.

K

Winner, who was a long time resident of carroll county and was here, was actually the original.

K

um Founder of post 48 here in carroll county, so we're just we're just trying to keep the as we in.

K

Society today, as we seem to want to erase history, we're just we're trying to keep it alive so again,.

K

Thank you very much. I appreciate it I'd like to uh thank the commissioners also for this proclamation.

L

um It's very appropriate not only to the d-day invasion but memorial day and I speak from.

L

Personal experience my mother came from a family of 13. out of hampstead maryland and her brother.

L

Who probably could have gotten a waiver to get out of the military? Because he was a farmer along with.

L

My grandfather and they were raising food and milk and joined the unit here in carroll, county.

L

And they went away to training in 1940. and then we're getting out. They were actually only.

L

In for a year and getting out when pearl harbor hit and of course we were taken back in uh he.

L

Was over in went over for training in england, while I was in england, he got a promotion and.

L

I guess you would say luck of the draw. He ended up out of the unit locally and ended up in the 116th.

L

Which was the first unit to hit the beach he survived the beach but later on in june.

L

He was, he was a machine gunner and he was killed in france serving in the 29th.

L

He was temporarily interned in france, but after the war they gave the family's opportunities to.

L

Bring back so charles wesley singer, uh pfc private first class charles wesley singer is now interned.

L

Or buried in wesley at wesley church, which is the family plot, and I just want to say that.

L

We appreciate the commissioners honoring, the many from carroll county who not only served.

L

But gave their lives in the service to their country. Thank you, gentlemen. I I appreciate it.

A

um Just a couple, quick things just to follow up, I mean it's a true testament to citizen.

A

Soldiers, you know, there's lots of books and you know you get the opportunity to to read.

A

um About citizen soldiers that have to put down the the work they're doing and do it selflessly.

A

um At all different ages, you know we, we hear a lot about the young kids that enter and lie.

A

About their age to get in, it also went the other way. You know there was. You know the elders that.

A

Went in and committed themselves um as citizen soldiers, uh four silver stars people. You know it.

A

Rattles off the tongue, but don't recognize and understand a silver star is given for heroism.

A

And only given in conflict um and to receive four of them is remarkable um and it's it's.

A

Third, maybe third highest award given for heroism. It is not just a service award and to receive four.

A

Of them is just a remarkable feat to say the least, and uh and lastly again just as commissioner kyler.

A

Highlights carroll county often about being proud of being carroll county and, as we all.

A

Are I often like to highlight veterans and veteran services, and um when you talked about.

A

Being temporarily interred and then moved most recently, a lot of folks know my my.

A

Dad passed july 4th this past july 4th and I went through veteran affairs and ordered.

A

A marker, a gravestone and you're allowed and you're authorized again. It is another.

A

um Opportunity for our veterans that are out there, because it's not all about you! It's about the.

A

Family to get your your uh your va card and your benefits that you deserve in your family deserve.

A

um I got a call yesterday from the va and they said it should be there within six weeks. So it's.

A

Not like it's years and years in its making, we've come a long way with the veteran affairs we've.

A

Come a long way with our community veterans programs, so I can. I will always continue to.

A

Highlight take opportunities that are deserving for you and your families as our veterans, so.

C

um And, commissioner, if I could just add one other thing, I so both of my grandparents were.

C

Both my grandfathers are world war ii veterans, thomas joseph spindler and anthony vigliotti.

C

And uh you know growing up with with them and growing up or I did and knowing this board of.

C

Commissioners and all the people in this room, you know when veterans speak, and I really do.

C

Mean this: when veterans speak, it's it's like thunder and it is uh it reverberates, because.

C

It's a kind of living history in a way, and you remind us of what we have, and I really cannot.

C

Thank you enough for what you did for us and for continuing to speak out about things that matter.

C

And and really thank you from the bottom of my heart for being here today and for doing this.

A

You are including uh mr shoemaker as well right yeah, I guess. Okay, no definitely just want to.

A

Make sure the state's attorney is you know in that mix? So if I can, uh if I can say one things.

L

um When I came back, I was on uh and enlisted on active duty and I came back and joined the 29th.

L

And I can tell you that uh when uh lieutenant kyler left the twilight division, it was the.

L

29Th division's loss. He was a come on now he was um he was uh they ran him out. I was behind.

L

Him when I commissioned became a commissioned officer, I was behind him going out to fort sill.

L

And they were still talking about his exploits at fort sill when he went through officer basic for.

L

Field artillery and he and he can't hear a damn thing now, so I was going to say, as as commissioner.

D

Rosting was saying: is it true, they tried to keep you out there as an instructor yeah. What what I.

D

Would like you guys to do, and I know you feel like you're here representing so many others.

D

um And we've been talking very familiar with you, because we know you guys, I think each of you I'm.

D

Going to introduce yourself say a couple words about yourself for the public watching this please.

M

Even though people can hear you go ahead, when I do him, I went in july 17 1944.

M

Two hitches in the navy, then, from the navy 1949 come back. They made the national guard reorganized.

M

Company h came back, so I helped with the 28th h to get back organizing the national guard.

M

They didn't call it national guard, then they called the minuteman back in 49.

M

Saved men and man for a couple years, then they transferred to the 28th division in pennsylvania.

M

About three years- and it goes back to westminster and they were under the 29th division, and that was.

M

Pikesville then, from pikesville they had b battery here in westminster and a battery in pikesville.

M

So then they ended up, convert a battery to westminster and took b battery down to bikesville.

M

Then they changed everything all around again.

M

Actually, I stayed well when he come in I'll, try to teach him everything, but he was half time.

M

He wouldn't want your mind. You you've done a good job fantastic, so it don't disappear.

M

He got out so I stayed in, I said. Well, I got 15 years and my mother will stay on in.

M

15 years I said health's getting easier, but then I say to 80 86.

M

So then, from 1944 to 86. wow, I said then they put me out 60.

M

Years old, when it comes 68, 60 years old, you got to go.

M

But they sent me to germany for two weeks come back, you got to go. I said good [laughter].

J

I already go back wow. I said okay, I left in 60 years at when I was age. 60. spent 40 years.

M

But ain't very much money. Well, I appreciate it. I appreciate you going from the bloody bucket to.

A

Blue and gray so right now, I'm 97 years old. God bless him. You know you don't look a day over 96.

A

Good morning, I'm bill nash. My memory is not as good as juniors. Well, when you come up to.

A

The mic it'll be easier, we won't go back uh for any history, but I am currently.

B

Chairman of the veterans council for carroll county advisory council- and that is an honor.

B

And a privilege, and hopefully that I can continue to do that for some additional time. But thank you.

B

Very much for the proclamation and thanks to all the veterans. Well, thank you, mr shoemaker.

M

10 minute break yeah no kidding very briefly, very briefly, so uh I served in an infantry unit with.

N

The maryland army national guard in catonsville, which was right next to umbc, where I went to.

N

School I shipped out for um basic the fort benning four days after graduation. uh I never had to get.

N

Activated or deployed we were on alert a couple of times, because stuff was going on with libya.

N

And iran, but uh you know we were, we were told, to stand down and I was kind of happy about that to.

N

Be perfectly frank, so uh by and by and large those I think I never had to uh deploy, because you know.

N

Reagan was president in those days and not many people messed with us. So uh I did my hitch and.

N

And got out that's what I did. I didn't stay in 40 years, like junior.

N

But he's my hero, I I appreciate and I'll tell you whether it's a day, sir who's next.

L

I'll be brief, I just I started out as enlisted man and then figured came off of active duty. I.

L

Did a enlisted hitch in germany and then came off active duty and joined the maryland guard.

L

I was in the 175th infantry out of the fifth regiment armory and we were training one day.

L

And these guys came riding by with these big mortars hanging on the back of their trucks.

L

And all of them hollering out the back. You suckers, walk you suckers. That's that's! My first sergeant.

L

I said who are those guys and they say? Oh that's, the artillery they're out of westminster. I said.

L

Wait a minute I live in westminster and I love the ride, so I ended up up in a battery.

L

I went to ocs got commissioned because I figured if I was going to make it a career I might as well.

L

To be all I can be, and that's where I met kenny and miss. Excuse me, commissioner, collard and I'm.

L

Serious about that, commissioner kyler was one of the from what I understand or what.

L

I can remember, was one of the few people that maxed gunnery in at fort sill oklahoma, a very.

L

Smart gentleman and a loss when he got out of the national guard you're going to ruin my reputation.

L

Okay, so that's it, I uh I did a hitch in the artillery. I also did. I was commander of a separate.

L

Infantry brigade, as commander of the company 255 men and women, and that was an experience.

L

And then I ended up for as the ig for the state of maryland spectra general's office, cool, okay, top.

K

um Thank you uh first sergeant, william rosier. I did um um I'll make this brief. I um was.

K

Actually, a uh when I went to high school, I was the smartest person there, smarter, my teachers, smarter.

K

And arrested students, so I decided not to say stay in school. I would not. I wouldn't recommend.

K

That to anybody when I went off to I enlisted in the navy when I went off the basic training.

K

um My I thought when I quit school, I thought the time my mother said was going to come off and my.

K

Father, who was a world war ii veteran just told my mother, said just sign the papers because he's he's.

K

Not getting an education now, but I can promise he's about to get one and- and he was so right.

K

So I wound up doing three years: the united states navy had a five-year breaking service.

K

um Ran into frank rosenberg, who was a at the time he was a fire investigator for for the state of.

K

Maryland and he was actually pretty slick- knew he was going to see a bunch of young volunteer.

K

Firemen around the county, um kept a uniform hanging in the back of his vehicle and knew it.

K

Would strike up a conversation and it actually struck up a conversation with me. I wound up.

K

Joining alpha battery in 1977 and stayed until 2010 when, when we folded our guidance, I served.

K

In different capacities in the battery deployed numerous times met a lot of good friends. A lot of.

K

Good soldiers, some good and some bad had some good times bad times, but I would I would be remissed if.

K

It's not it's not all about the veterans either if it wasn't for my lovely bride. None of this.

K

Would be possible- and I think any soldier that ever ever put on the uniform, if it if it wasn't.

K

For their bride, who had to become mother and father housekeeper cook, you know lawn maintenance.

K

um We we couldn't do what we do, so you know big shout out to the wives so again, thank you very.

K

Much yeah no kidding right actually absolutely. Thank you, sir. I really I appreciate it and just.

A

I mean we, we can go on for a long time about this.

A

um But there's a couple things that are really important and not to be so profound about it. But.

A

Whether you serve a day or 30 plus years whatever it is, you raise your right hand and you willfully.

A

Give up certain inalienable rights by doing that by serving selflessly to allow all of us to have.

A

Those inalienable rights, so when somebody thanks us for our service, I turn around and.

A

Thank them for giving me the reason to serve um people. Don't recognize that that we do that.

A

You know so if you deployed or not deployed or regardless you give up, you know you give up those.

A

Inalienable rights every time when you raise that right hand and uh and you do it willfully.

A

That should never get lost on uh on what we do. um I appreciate talking about. um You know the.

A

Families, without a doubt, you know we did marry very far up and uh the joke in the house was. I.

A

Don't remember that, well, you were deployed, you miss a lot and uh you know with my kids.

A

um Mental health- you know, as commissioner gering you know spoke about, is so important.

A

You know, let's crush the stigma that exists with our veterans and with our community, that it's okay.

A

To seek help and get it before things go awry, so it all kind of ties right back together. So.

A

I really appreciate this opportunity. I wanted to go as long, but I think again we can talk.

A

About this for a long long time, we do it well in carroll county with our veterans council.

A

um And uh mr nash, you are doing just a great job. Our citizen services does a great job. All of the.

A

Community, the legions and all those that are supporting our veterans uh just phenomenal, but.

A

Today is about you collectively and recognizing the 29th infantry division. So with that, why don't.

A

We get ourselves a photo and go from there. Let me say a little more without you be quick.

M

My navy career goes when I went in 1944. I was signed the amphibious. Of course. I made landings.

M

49., I forgot that in a minute of it dan pictures man, I was the boots of meat.

M

I drove in lcps, you know.

J

Yeah, I'm surprised in remembering her name. You can just call me any name. You want.

J

D

A

Mr shoemaker, I made no comments about that that.

A

Suit just I mean I made no comment: it's not summer time, it's after memorial day.

N

I won't repeat what commissioner rothstein said to me when I showed up in one of those suits better for everybody.

I

It's a southern thing.

A

A

Tickets, why don't you come on up here and talk about fy 2024.

A

Program open space allocation so back to work huh back to work.

A

And who are you bringing up with you with me this morning? I have miss lisa carroll. Lisa is.

G

The bureau chief of recreation, she oversees the programming side of our department and.

G

Even though we're going to be talking about town pos projects, a lot of these facilities.

G

Are used by our rec councils and our programs so there's a very definite connection to lisa.

G

Just quickly to review for you and for the people at home every year we take.

G

25 percent of the program open space funds that are allocated to carroll county and we designate.

G

Those for municipal projects, 50 percent of the amount, goes to land acquisition. I'm sorry 25 goes.

G

To land acquisition, the remaining 50 percent can be used as we see fit. Acquisition or development.

G

So this morning we're talking about the fy 2024 municipal projects of the eight municipalities.

G

We actually have a rotating basis where four will get the funding one year. The other four would get.

G

The funding the following year, the allocation for fy24, the total amount, is 2 million. Four hundred.

G

Fourteen thousand seven hundred and three dollars so with 25 going to the towns, that's a total of.

G

Six hundred and three thousand six hundred seventy five dollars. We then divide that equally among the.

G

Four towns, as was the recommendation from the local chapter of maryland municipal league. It.

G

Results in a hundred and fifty thousand nine hundred eighteen dollars for each of the four.

G

Towns to receive the money this year just to run through the projects very quickly, so you know.

G

Where that money is being spent and for what the town of new windsor at atlee ridge walking path,.

G

They will be adding a half court basketball court there to address some requests from the community.

G

They will also be using money to add lighting to their skate park.

G

And then doing some improvements to the sulfur springs spring house. That's a historic structure.

G

And they've had some drainage issues there that they'll be looking to improve the city of tawny.

G

Town, tawny, town high school park, they will be adding athletic field lighting to two out of.

G

The three fields there, those fields are used by youth girls, softball baseball in the community.

G

Has had lights for years up at taneytown memorial park, so this equals the playing field literally.

G

uh Tiny town memorial park also will be replacing a tot lot there. So they'll use some of the money.

G

Towards that as well, union bridge community center will be making some much needed improvements to.

G

The community center itself, this includes flooring, hvac lighting, etc, and then last.

G

But not least, city of westminster will be making some improvements to westminster city park. They.

G

Have two tennis courts there now they're going to convert one of them into exclusive pickleball.

G

Courts, the other one they're going to resurface, it'll be used for both pickleball and tennis.

G

So that's the extent of the projects we would be, including these projects.

G

Along with the county projects using program open space funding,.

G

In our annual program, which will be submitted to the state prior to july, 1.

G

Happy to answer any questions about any of the projects that you may have.

C

Not just to say very quick, I mean coming from a municipal background myself. I mean it's.

C

This partnership with the county and open space funding is, is really critical for small towns.

C

Because they just simply do not have the the funding to to be able to contend with certain.

C

Projects or to do certain things and, and these end up benefiting thousands of our of our residents.

I

It's broken up evenly, not equippedly, evenly across municipalities. Yes, should it be that's a decision.

G

Or recommendation that we have left to the local chapter of mml, maryland municipal league, more.

G

Often than not, that is how they choose to proceed. In some cases, this dollar amount may be all of the.

G

Funding that's going towards those projects. In other cases it contributes to it. We recognize.

G

That not all of the towns are the same. Not all of their resources are the same. Some of the larger.

G

Towns may have larger projects right, so they're kicking in additional funds themselves yeah. I.

A

Just I mean it, I I don't know the last time it was discussed. You know, as far as how it is divided up.

A

You know it makes it easy to look at it this way when it's all the same numbers four times, but.

A

Should it be where you know, like commissioner bigley, I said I mean this is.

A

Crucial to tony towns, you know opportunities growth opportunities without it, it would have.

A

Been a really difficult time, whereas in westminster it may not be as crucial with.

A

This dollar amount or other locations, um but yeah with requesting the input from mml each.

G

Year they have the opportunity to make a recommendation different than dividing it.

G

Equally, or even, to go outside of the rotation with the four one year and a four another year.

O

So it's addressed every year. Basically, yes, yes, that opportunity and that discussion is.

G

There every year- and I can't recall a year when they've come back with something where we didn't.

G

Agree with the projects or didn't feel that there were necessary projects in there. Okay, I.

A

Apologize, commissioner, karen, it's okay, just a few questions just trying to understand the process so.

F

The uh the maryland municipal league, obviously they're working with the municipalities to come.

F

Up with this with this list, and once we approve it, if we approve it, there's no state involvement at.

F

This point, these funds are then thus approved and just dispersed out to the municipalities in this.

F

Amount, well, it's actually a reimbursable grant. So what we need to do each year for all of our.

G

Program open space projects is to complete, what's called an annual program, that annual program will.

G

Include the municipal projects, it will also include the county projects once we submit the.

G

Annual program, then there's additional paperwork: there's an application for each individual project.

G

Once that is approved, we're able to move forward with the projects and then basically we do the.

G

Expenditures we pay for the projects and then get reimbursed for them. Okay and program open.

G

Space for the most part pays for 90 percent of the projects. Then there's a 10 percent match.

G

For the county projects, we pay the full 10 percent for the municipal projects. We split.

G

That 10 percent the town pays five percent. We pay five percent, that's per a town county agreement.

G

And the total amount available does how? How widely does it vary from year to year? Is it typically.

F

The same amount of money that's allocated for the it's never been the same amount two years in a row.

G

We had a 10-year period where the high was 2.6, I'm sorry, 3.6 million and the low was 166.

G

000.: okay, that's where ted and his staff earn their money trying to.

G

Budget on what you think the state is going to give you all right. Thank you.

C

Motion to approve the recommendation of the local chapter of the maryland municipal league for fy 2024 municipal program, open space projects; second,.

A

I have a motion. I have a second any discussion. It's in here, not all in favor all right.

P

Thank you very much. Thank you.

A

Okay: let's talk about critical farms, program application to.

A

Levi fisher maddie fisher and jacob fisher.

A

We've got the entire team: okay.

P

Good morning, everybody good morning.

Q

How do I do this every day, far left far left yeah, because I'm always looking at the line.

R

Above good morning, commissioners how's everyone this morning morning. How are you.

R

Thank you. We're doing well glad to be here in front of you today today I'll requested.

R

Final approval for critical farms, program for levi fisher, maddie fisher and jacob fisher on.

R

The critical farms program is a program we have that helps people purchase farms. We.

R

We help with 52 and a half percent of the purchase price or the appraised value. Whichever is lower.

R

And this is a very popular program. It is our our we're most proud of this program in the county.

R

um Levi maddie and jacob fisher are purchasers of 40 30, francis scott key.

R

Highway in tawny town, it's a 150, acre farm. We will be retiring, 17 lot, rights.

R

This is a picture of the farm right off of route 194.. This is in district one. The.

R

Appraised value was one million, seven hundred and thirty thousand four hundred dollars and.

R

The purchase price is two million 500 000.. The cost is 908 thousand four hundred dollars, which.

R

Is 52 and a half percent of the appraised value because that is lower than the purchase price.

R

Here's how the farm fits in other preserved properties in the tontitown area.

R

So a picture of the farm off of 194.

R

Again, we're here for levi fisher, maddie fisher and jacob fisher contract purchasers of 40 30.

R

Francis scott key highway in taneytown 150 acres, 17 law rights in district, one.

R

At a cost of 908 400 dollars.

R

Any questions about the property or anything are you seeing uh appraised values.

D

um Pretty much less than what the purchase prices are right now in in carroll, county or back and.

D

Forth, um as far as the purchase price for this farm, which was at sixteen thousand six hundred.

R

Dollars the appraised value was much lower. I think uh a lot of the a lot of the properties.

R

That have been sold seem to be higher and should have a higher appraised value but they're, given a.

R

Lot of value to the improvements on the farm, and once you take that out, then the value of.

R

The land is a little bit lower and we only pay based on the appraisal of the land only but the.

R

Appraisals are lagging a little bit, but it's not keeping um the demand for the land yeah.

E

With the with the generational shift economically, are we seeing more estate.

E

Related farms coming into the programs, there seem to be a lot of estate settlements, okay,.

C

Motion to exercise the option to purchase for levi fisher, maddie fisher and jacob fisher.

C

Through the critical farms program in the amount of nine hundred, eight thousand four hundred sixty.

C

Dollars second, okay, again: motion. Second, a more discussion or questions on this one.

A

Seen here, none all in favor all right, okay! Thank you. Commissioners. Thank.

C

You very much okay. Let's talk about purchasing some freightliner trucks.

H

Morning, everybody come on.

S

um Good morning, the office of procurement, in cooperation with the bureau of fleet.

S

Management and the maintenance center request, your approval to purchase the vehicles listed.

S

Below from national auto fleet group and the total amount of one million one hundred eighty.

S

Eight thousand one hundred fifty six dollars this purchase is being made through a source.

S

Well, contract number: zero: six, zero, nine, two zero dash naf that was competitively bid.

S

The amount is within the adoptive fyi 23 budget, and no additional funds should be necessary. It's.

S

Going to be two 2024 freightliner 108 sd model 108-14-32 for a total of 669 210 120 24, 114 sd.

S

Model 174-20-40 for 279 246.1, 2024, 108, sd dump body with a hoist for 239 700.

T

I'd like to run through some slides to help us break the request down.

T

First, we have a single axle dump truck. The new unit will be identical to what.

T

You're looking at here and it will replace an existing unit in the fleet.

T

Next, we have the request of two single axle hook: lift trucks. These will also replace two.

T

Dump trucks in the fleet and the reason for that request is the hook. Lift trucks will.

T

Allow the bureau of roads to expand their road brine operations. Currently, there are only two.

T

Hook, lift trucks in the fleet so having four total will allow one for each quadrant of the county to.

T

Better prepare the roads for inclement weather during the winter months, um in addition to the.

T

Vehicles, the salt, brine tank and spray system, as you see, pictured, is included as well as a v hopper.

T

Body for spreading salt, a flatbed platform and a dumpster body for transporting various materials.

T

And then, lastly, we have the tandem axle hook, lift truck the new unit will look identical.

T

To what we're looking at here, it will replace one of those two current hook: lift trucks that.

T

We have in the fleet, we are not requesting the purchase of any body platforms for this.

T

Truck and the reason is the current body platforms are in sufficient condition and.

T

We will reuse them to help. Keep calls down on. The left is a picture of the v hopper for.

T

Spreading salt and on the right is the brine tank for spring road brine. The last slide.

T

Is just some pictures of the current units in the fleet to show the condition of them.

T

I'll point out, the bottom right picture is an engine replacement that we had to perform in a dump truck back in november and there's frequent.

T

Costly repairs are why we're looking for the board's approval to replace them.

T

The new units- sadly, I do not expect them to arrive for about a year and a half and other.

T

Than that, if you, if the board, has any questions uh myself and mr coker here to answer them.

A

The um the additional vehicles, the two addition I mean not replacements, but additional they are.

A

Replacements everything here is a replacement correct, so purchasing for replacing four.

A

Oh, the two: I saw a single axle hook, lift trucks will be replacing dump.

T

Trucks, though, so there's a transition from the dump to the to the hook, lift truck.

A

hmm Are the vehicles ever being replaced gonna last a year and a half good questions.

T

If you know, if one of the trucks needs an engine replacement uh in the near future,.

T

We'll have to go ahead and commit to that to that repair to get us through until the.

T

New trucks come if it's something that happens, maybe a few months prior to the.

T

New trucks coming in if we have the ability to we'll hold off on on those costly repairs.

A

Did we wait too long before executing this and ordering so for fy 23? I know we're coming down.

T

To the wire this, we were finally able to secure those four order. Slots there's also a lot of.

T

Limitations, I don't believe we would be able to order any more if we wanted to um and the the.

T

Trucks of this caliper that were ordered in 2021, we have two of them that are just about finished.

T

Being built and one that is going to take a couple more months, so we still have trucks.

T

Coming in from all the way back then, but we're doing what we can yeah with the situation. Okay,.

D

You um and you've probably done this before so I apologize. So how will you dispose of.

D

The vehicles being replaced and and is that market going up down or about the same so in.

T

General we're seeing about a 35 percent resale value increase in vehicles across.

T

The board the dump trucks- they are tricky, it's a very specific market, um but but each vehicle.

T

Will be auctioned through public surplus and anyone has the ability to bid on those vehicles.

C

Motion to award the purchase of the above vehicles, the national auto fleet group in the.

C

Amount of one million one hundred eighty eight thousand one hundred fifty six dollars. Second,.

A

Okay, I have a motion. I have a second any further discussion on this seen here, not.

A

All in favor aye aye. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Let's talk about new guard rail installation.

S

um The office of procurement, in cooperation with the department of public works bureau of.

S

Roads operations requests that your approval to have a long fence company incorporated install.

S

New guard rail in the amount of 54 352.50, this work per the maryland state highway.

S

Administration contract number 477d 71424, which was competitively bid. This amount.

S

Is within the fiscal year 23 budget and no additional funds should be necessary.

Q

Any questions how many, uh how many different guardrail contractors do you guys tend to use.

D

Right now it's just just current one. I was going to say it gets long fans.

A

And you've had no problems with them yet not at.

Q

This time yeah so far, so good, not yet so far, so good yeah.

C

Okay, you guys want to make the motion it's in. I think both of your districts doesn't matter.

A

I'll move the board of commissioners approve the installation of new guard rails, long fence.

A

Company in the amount of fifty four thousand three hundred fifty two dollars, fifty cents.

A

A second, oh okay, I got a motion a couple seconds I'll be at delayed seconds. uh Any.

A

Discussion seen here, none all in favor, aye, aye. Okay! Thank you, mr gentlemen. Thank you. Okay,.

A

I'm gonna go into a recess in a second, but does anybody have anything for open admin at this time.

A

Might I make a suggestion that we do the agenda review and all that now? Oh.

A

Okay, I will but okay does anybody have anything for open admin? Oh no.

O

Just the minutes from we had it closed yeah. So um what I'd like you to do is.

A

Take a look at the closed minutes from may 25th. Recording land acquisition.

A

And if we can reach out to wanda for uh agenda.

A

C

Motion to approve closed minutes from may 25th 2023 land acquisition. Second, okay: I.

A

Have a motion: I have a second any discussion on that being here, not all in favor, aye, okay,.

A

We will be going into closed after we go into the next topic regarding.

A

Egg zoning, but uh what we can do now is we can go through agendas.

A

And ms wanda had her fast shoes on and she was able to get here. I appreciate that.

A

Flexibility um monday june 5th, it is high school graduation week westminster high.

A

School graduation at 9 a.m and then south carroll graduation at 3 p.m. Commissioner gordon will be.

A

Attending the first in commissioner karen will be attending the second, both in all high school.

A

Graduations will be at mcdaniel college on tuesday there's a liberty high school graduation at 9.

A

00 a.m and winners mill at 3 p.m, I'll be attending the morning, and commissioner, gordon and kyler.

A

Will be detenting at 3 pm on wednesday june 7th commissioner kyler will be attending the.

A

Manchester valley, high school graduation at 9am and commissioner vigliotti will be.

A

Attending the francis scott key graduation at 3 p.m. There is a huff barn celebration.

A

At the carroll county farm museum at schedule at 3 p.m, and commissioner kyler will be attending.

A

I will be participating in the governor's workforce development board.

A

Over at the community college in baltimore county at 3, 30 pm and commissioner gordon will.

A

Be participating in a virtual planning and zoning commission meeting at 6 pm on thursday june 8th.

A

We have uh both mr sanderson and county executive from howard, county calvin. Ball we'll be attending.

A

At 9 15 in the morning to talk through manko and hear from us on our mako or our priorities.

A

But also have a healthy discussion on what the mako priorities are for the upcoming legislative.

A

Season and in preparation for um the summer conference, which will be happening in august.

A

um We'll have a second public hearing regarding the community development block, grant feasibility.

A

Study for the carroll county youth services, bureau, miss steckel from citizen services and then she.

A

Will still be with us to talking about submitting housing and urban development youth homeless.

A

Demonstration project application.

A

Then um dpw will be talking to us about a 2023 hot mix asphalt, paving project.

A

And then office of wrecking parks we'll be talking about the westminster veterans, memorial sidewalk.

A

um I will be attending the century high school graduation at 1 pm.

A

That afternoon and then that later afternoon, there's a bwi partnership, annual meeting and.

A

Award ceremony I'll be attending over at lithicum heights at bwi airport.

A

um Friday june 9th commissioner kyler will be attending the racial justice conference over at.

A

The carroll community college and at 4 30 p.m. There's a municipal pool ribbon cutting where.

A

Commissioner, gordon and kyler will be wearing bathing suits and jumping in a pool in westminster.

A

On june 11th, commissioner kyler has the podcast.

A

Tuesday june 13th therapeutic recreation day.

A

Commissioner, kyler is scheduled to attend over at the farm museum and then there's a the special.

A

Olympics torch run where commissioner gordon kyler vigliotti and myself will be participating in.

A

There's a joint board and esac meeting at 2pm on tuesday june 13th, where all five of us will be.

A

Attending and then 7 pm the ag board meeting will occur and I'll be attending that at the.

A

Attic center on wednesday june 14th farm museum board meeting, commissioner figliati will be.

A

Participating in the morning and then there's a board of education meeting board meeting at 5 pm.

A

So if there's any takers at this time, let us know if not, please consider it and then we'll go from.

A

There at 6 00 pm that evening there's a flag day ceremony over at the farm museum. I believe.

A

It's also a time where we have the opportunity to properly dispose of flags. It's a ceremony as well.

A

So if anybody has flags to be disposed of appropriately, you can bring them there out.

A

To the community, you can bring them there, but also understand that I know in american legions.

A

Across the county, there are disposal areas and you can just walk into the american legion and.

A

Bring the colors put them in the box and they will appropriately dispose of them.

A

They are not to be thrown in the garbage on thursday june 15th. We have open session and.

A

Our planning department will have the public hearing regarding the.

A

Water and sewer triennial update and then later that evening there is a mml.

A

Event, which is a combined event between carroll, county and frederick county, to be held in links.

A

Of shaladon mount airy and right now we have commissioner garen and kyler attending that friday.

A

Saturday, nothing scheduled- and commissioner gordon has excuse me the podcast for sunday, the 18th.

D

um Yes, just a word on the mml, I don't know if others have time to attend it, it should be.

D

Interesting because of all the elections, it's going to be some new faces at this one right.

D

I'm going to check to see if I can make that wanda. If you could, could you uh put me down for.

U

The mml event on the 15th and then also the flag day ceremony on the 14th, please, okay, thank you.

A

And then joe, don't we have something during flag day. I thought there was a cell there's something.

A

In tony town that I'm participating in something was it at the at the memorial park. You and I are.

A

I thought it was, then I will double check. That is it. Maybe is it with the is the legion? Maybe.

C

That's doing it! No, I think I think it's at the memorial park we'll check yeah I'll double check.

A

um Okay and that's off of my memory, which is not uh you know, always as clear as it should be,.

A

um What I need now well, first off mom, did I do okay for you? Yes, okay,.

A

What I need now is a motion to recess for about 10 minutes. We can uh reconvene at.

A

10 45 they're, going to uh reconfigure the room. Allow us to go into a work session.

A

So a motion to recess till 10 45. so moved. Second, all in favor, aye.

M

One okay: I appreciate the uh delay of a couple minutes, but let's uh get.

A

Started on the agenda is a work session, recording um a discussion.

A

And all the decisions regarding uh zoning agricultural properties across carroll, county.

A

um We have there's eisenberg and mr hein and resource management and planning.

A

To facilitate and lead us through the discussion, also, in addition to this, we have mr titus and.

Q

Avoid yeah, I know mr boy jay, um here's um price price all the time he looks like a.

V

Pierce we're gonna start calling him pierce his real name's walter.

V

I can do this change his name. He should he would.

A

Second, third time, I called him pierce anyway price to get us through the conversation I apologize.

A

If you can't take your self so seriously um so with that said,.

A

uh Lender or chris, why don't you walk us through kind of where we've been.

A

um uh What got us here today and some suggestions and moving forward sure.

V

So I'll go ahead and stuff bad, um so I'm recycling a presentation we gave to the.

V

Commissioners about a year ago, with the briefing of the ag conservation districts so starting with.

V

The adoption of the 2014 carroll county master plan and subsequently the freedom master plan.

V

Under the direction of the board of county commissioners, at that time, planning was tasked.

V

With not only re-codifying the zoning code itself, but also looking at properties for reasoning to be.

V

In conformance with the master plan, so typically of the general planning process that lays out the.

V

um Land use types for the entire county that we have land use authority over and then lays out.

V

Recommendations that would be under the different goals and objectives for implementation. For this.

V

In this case, we did recodification of the entire zoning code and what I mean by that is, we looked.

V

At each and every district in the county under county purview, we went through the definitions of.

V

What all the different things that are defined in the zoning code is from uses to intent to.

V

Everything then we looked at uh you know for commercial, industrial unemployment, campus, creating.

V

What the intensities would be of each we looked at densities of the residential districts and then.

V

Finally, we wrapped it up with the agricultural and conservation zoning districts which was completed.

V

In december of 2 2022 part of this effort was we mailed, 60 000 households in carroll, county.

V

Letting them know that we were undertaking this effort as part of the implementation process.

V

From the plan, so you lay out your plan what the policies are and you implement it through the.

V

Regulation, so this is implementing the plan which follows, after the adoption, typically.

V

um So with that, we I'm not going to go over the other districts but add conservation. One of the.

V

Things that we did was we convened a work group, mr wagner's here today, because he was the lead.

V

Planner, who helped create the work group and followed the work groups program, work program.

V

And the recommendations that eventually came to the board of county commissioners, so the process.

V

For, as you know, for changing zoning text, is we come to you, the board of county commissioners.

V

For direction on, if you would like to have text reviewed and if so, then you need to forward it.

V

Per our code to the planning and zoning commission for their review and recommendation, they do the.

V

Review and recommendation for the back to the board of county commissioners. For you all to.

V

Have discussions we do typical work sessions like this host a public here and then you have.

V

Discussion decision and adoption, um so what we did with this effort is we convened a work group to.

V

In addition to having public outreach and consensus and discussion with planning, commission.

V

We wanted to have a work group of um people in the agricultural community from all different parts of.

V

The ag community from farmers to businesses etc. So um let me just kind of back up and go over.

V

The presentation just a little bit is that we displayed you know how much agricultural.

V

Conservation and then other types of land we have in the county- and I think this still pretty holds.

V

True today, maybe a couple a couple digits off, but we have 185 655 acres of agriculturally zoned land.

V

In carroll county, not including the municipality, so the bulk of the zoning in carroll county as.

V

You can see from the map in front of you on the screen and the ones that mr heim presented to.

V

You is agriculturally zoned, then we have 57 000 acres of our conservation district. So the little.

V

Bit of history behind that is when the county initiated zoning in the 60s. We didn't really do ag.

V

Zoning per se at that point in time, then we um do conservation, zoning, which was the most restrictive.

V

Zoning at that time, which was one unit per three acres agzone was rural subdivision, was allowed up.

V

To one acre lots, but there wasn't this kind of formula we used today of like a basically a one.

V

Unit per 20 acre agricultural zone. So that's why you can see from one of the maps mr heim presented.

V

um You see the proliferation of residential homes and communities spread throughout the.

V

County, that's just naturally grew up out of our ag zone and, typically you know what one would.

V

Say good farms to make good houses go good houses because farm soils are very suited to residential.

V

Development for all sorts of reasons, so then at some point in time the decision was made to make.

V

The agricultural zone more restrictive in terms of residential units, then in 2011 2012, the state.

V

Of maryland, as part of the sb 236 senate bill, 236 initiated a law that was called septic tears and.

V

What the tears did and carroll county did not adopt tears. We just changed other parts of our.

V

Code, but if you were outside of a sewer service area and no planned service, you were considered.

V

Tier four and that automatically doesn't matter what your zoning is limited you to seven.

V

Maximum subdividable lots, no matter what that was, you could have 200 acres. You only get seven.

V

No matter what, no matter, what the constraints are, the or the openness of the property, so that.

V

Further restricted our agricultural ability to subdivide and what the state said at that time was.

V

um Anything in your planned sewer service area, s1, s2 s3- you could build as long as you were hooking.

V

Up at some point to the base density of the zoning and what it was allowed, if you were in tier.

V

Four, you could only do that. Seven lot um minor subdivision. We, our majors, were considered for and.

V

Over we changed that lost part of the code to make it seven and under as a minor subdivision sort.

V

Of over four, so that gave us greater flexibility, but beyond that, um so for the last 11 years we've.

V

Never really adopted a tier platform, meaning we don't have a tier three designation in the county.

V

And what the tier 3 does allow you to do is to have residential subdivision large lot on well and.

V

Septic of a major subdivision and there's a whole process to do that. So that's kind of a little bit.

V

Of the background of exoning and conservation and and kind of that whole uh tears methodology, yeah.

A

Pause you for a second again, a lot of information. I don't see you speaking too fast, but I'm trying.

A

To catch up- and I feel like I've done this a handful of times with you, but I'm trying.

A

To not just write my notes but comprehend, because it's a lot to comprehend um from the changes that.

A

Have been made to everything you've described. Can we go back a second the ag work group? Okay,.

A

um Who was on the ad work group yeah? So um the the work group um and we also had.

V

A concept team approach, so the mission of the agricultural work group was to review.

V

um The research prepared by the department of planning which price was the lead of.

V

um And how it relates to our zoning chapter and subdivision code and what we really wanted.

V

To look at was to identify challenges within our ag zone. Discuss emerging trends such as.

V

um Agritourism, solar things like that with an agricultural lands.

V

um You know the winery brewery issue and find out what would make sense to move.

V

Forward within the ag conservation zone, and so um what we did was we had input and advice.

V

From an interagency concept team, which was internal to the county, so it was planning.

V

It was landing resource management staff, it was ag pres, it was public works, economic development.

V

Etc, all part of that county attorney's office and then the work group consisted of people from the.

V

Agricultural community, soil conservation, district, the legal community, the real estate community.

V

um We had uh kevin attics, who is now the secretary of agriculture was part.

V

Of our work group to represent the farm alcohol producer industry, so we really did try to make.

V

This all-encompassing and bring the experts in their fields and in carroll, county's, agriculture,.

V

So here's what we did was we didn't pick specific people, we went to groups themselves and they.

V

Designated the person they felt was best suited. So, as you can see here, here's the list of the various.

V

Groups, so we had um our president, our pres board ag press farm bureau bar association that grown.

V

Fortified that mr addicts was a part of economic development, specifically, we had diana hair, who.

V

Does the agricultural outreach for economic development and then all of our internal people.

V

um Including actually the county health department came to, we thought it was.

V

Important to have them because they helped regulate our wells and septics in the county.

V

um So from this group and and from planning staff, we identified major trends and challenges.

V

um Within the ag and conservation districts, things that we had heard from elected officials.

V

Things that we had heard from the public at large from staff things that we had seen go.

V

To bza time and time again that needed to be, we felt, discussed and addressed. So we looked.

V

At mainly contractor equipment, storage country inns, which we now have changed to.

V

Event: banquet facilities, commercial kennels, solar energy, agrotourism, temporary seasonal.

V

Uses commercial camping was a big one and not so much commercial camping with the site plan for.

V

um So many campsite type of thing, but hip camping, which is kind of a trend. I don't even know if it's.

V

Still a trend, it was a trend a couple of years ago, where you would be basically pop a squad on.

V

Someone's property essentially and pitch your own tent or they would provide like a glamping.

V

Yurt for you to use on their particular property, but it would not be on a specific.

V

um Campsite and may not have some of the amenities that a campsite has and we allow.

V

Those in and please correct me if I'm wrong uh jay, we allow up to three of this kind of random.

V

Or two, no um so you're allow one a one, I'm sorry and, and the discussion was to allow more than one.

V

And what would that mean without a real site plan um to know what your road infrastructure would be?.

V

To get people into the campground, where would your um you know uh facilities be for uh camping users.

V

um And then we looked at accessory dwelling units, meaning um we allowed accessory dwelling units in.

V

Our agricultural zone, but they had to be attached to the primary unit and we're looking at a way.

V

To increase uh frankly, affordable housing in the county, but not change the composition of what the.

V

County looked like by allowing detached within the ag zone of the same like as the attached.

V

So the challenges with contractor equipment- storage yards were the number of variances.

V

Meaning kind of the distance, we have a certain base that we allow, but you can go and ask for.

V

Additional, so we looked at the number of variances um that were being requested. We looked at minimum.

V

Lot sizes, because a lot of these are on smaller lots, but the contractor equipment, storage yard.

V

Facility itself cannot be greater than one acre in size, but we noticed there was a lot of creep.

V

Meaning that a lot of them were one acre, but now they're, junk or contractors equipment or whatever.

V

You want to call it is well beyond that one acre threshold. So looking should we have a minimum lot.

V

Size then so at least, if they have that creep and we're not suggesting that or looking for those. But.

V

It would be um less obvious to the surrounding community that may have a conflict with that.

V

Prepared maps of looking at where we had variances and then we looked at various.

V

Property sizes around the county- I'm not going to go over this in detail, I'm just pretty much showing you this, so you can see the research that went into everything.

V

On the next was country inns again, this was under uh defined under our zoning code um and we wanted.

V

To have a clear distinction between countries and bed and breakfasts, because a country in in order.

V

To have that which allows you to have your kind of event facility and ag land at the time where.

V

She had to have a room available for overnight stay where how is it really different than a.

V

Better breakfast, where you have to have a place for people to sleep and a breakfast offered in the.

V

Morning um as part of that, but bed and breakfast did not have the event ability. um So should we.

V

Have created a should, we create the question was a standalone um definition for event facilities.

V

Because we were getting a lot of these requests, especially over the last few years, with the trends.

V

Of um you know, firm rural wedding event, type of thing, um so that was considered in this process.

V

The next we looked at was commercial kennels. We get a lot of commercial kennel requests, probably.

V

Under behind contractor equipment- storage yards- I don't know they might even be tied for first.

V

Place with them or but we get a lot of commercial kennels people love their animals and there's a.

V

Lot of animals everywhere, which is great as an animal lover, but there also can be some issues.

V

So we wanted to evaluate where they were in the county and what type of lot size they were on.

V

um Agritourism, we looked at the challenge of agritourism and seasonal uses within the zoning.

V

Code, the state um defined agritourism specifically, and we aligned our definition to be with them and.

V

Correct me, if I'm wrong day like in 2019-2020 and we followed, along with the state definition.

V

For that, when you have a chance later, could you email us? I believe chris also is posting it so.

V

um He typically does, but yes absolutely we can get this to you. Thank you very much. I'm just.

C

I'm trying to look at some of the smaller words and symbols on this. It's quite interesting um so.

V

Kind of you know, we mapped out where things were located and we just thought the barn quotes was.

V

Really cool and the little symbology is the actual barn quit on the side of the barns in those areas.

V

Solar, um we just had a very brief discussion because, as you know, from your recent solar.

V

Discussions a couple of years ago, um chris's team, brenda denny, leading it did an in-depth.

V

Review with the eac over community solar, when that became legal in the state of maryland,.

V

um So we didn't really touch this too much other than the question.

V

um Would we want to make it um we want to expand its allowance even more so.

V

um And then, finally, as I said, the accessory and dwelling units defining and allowing detached and attached as opposed to just the attached.

V

Discussions that we have with the board and decisions were made and.

V

um Here was the timeline, as I had talked earlier, about how things progress from 2014.

V

To 2022, with that completion of the adoption of the agricultural conservation district revisions.

V

So this is a really interesting chart. I want to share with you.

V

um It it is basically the decisions that were made and whether they were more or less restrictive.

V

Also in front of you, I took the an excerpt from our zoning district explainer and apologize. We.

V

Only did the ag zone, which tells you what the um primary principle uses are with the accessory.

V

Uses that are allowed and then what are the uses that require a board of zoning appeal approval.

V

So in most cases across conservation, especially and ag, we made them more restrictive. We made.

V

The agriculture district more restricted and we made the conservation district more restrictive.

V

In terms of the uses and the number of uses and the allowances on agricultural remainders,.

V

um Prior to the code being adopted in december of 2022, you were allowed to have basically.

V

um Unlimited development of non-residential uses on um agricultural remaining portions.

V

Meaning you know we had certain allowable uses on those remaining portions. You could.

V

Do a school you could do a daycare, you could do a religious establishment. All of these different.

V

Things but we didn't have a stop measure. So if you had 20 acres you could fit essentially 20.

V

Different of those uses, we limited that, based on acreage to a maximum of three where it is under.

V

I think like zero to twenty, I apologize on the code in foreign. It's two two, I'm sorry to two.

V

Zero to twenty, you get one use over 20, you get two uses, and so you could do a church or a religious.

V

Establishment and a daycare together or you could do a school and a religious establishment. But.

V

You couldn't add the third thing, a daycare, then, on top of that, so we really restricted.

V

um The agricultural remaining portions, so some of the main highlights of what was done.

V

um Was agritourism we did a new definition uh to be similar to the state of maryland's definition.

V

um We deleted the definition of country in and replaced it with banquet facility again.

V

To follow trends that are happening to modernize the code, um one of the things that the use will.

V

No longer require or allow or have to have rooms for rent for overnight guests, and it is.

V

No longer permitted in the conservation district making that more restrictive.

V

um We amended the purpose of the districts to now be more in agreement with the zoning code itself.

V

We looked at daycare, centers, private schools and religious establishments as conditional.

V

Uses and we made them more restrictive. Many of these were permitted by right and now.

V

Added minimum lot sizes and made conditional use requirements for many for all of those.

V

And the ag zone and in some cases prohibit them in the conservation zone.

V

um uh Accessory dwelling units um this was always allowed, but instead it had to be attached so.

V

Just creating the allowance for the detached under um the same parameters as the attached.

V

um Other types of accessory uses for two districts into I'm sorry.

V

I'm sorry um additional restrictions were placed on home occupations, private, stable.

V

Storage modules, lawn and maintenance services, uh production of firewood and mulch, which is a.

V

Really big topic along with sawmills, um so look looking at those and made those more restrictive.

V

Contractor equipment, storage yard, both indoor and outdoor will be allowed conditional use in the.

V

Ag district and will have separation requirements, minimums um and contractor equipment storage will.

V

Be more restrictive in terms of it will only be allowed now on districts of at least five acres.

V

As opposed to what we had it before so again, to make it more restrictive and have less conflict.

V

With the residential houses that are commonly found in the agricultural zone and then the.

V

Same thing with commercial kennels, as well as having that minimum acreage requirement as well.

V

um So that's the major changes to 158, which is your zoning code.

V

um 155, a subdivision and um the two things that changed there one I already mentioned.

V

The agricultural remaining portions limiting the amount of those on agzone land and then cluster.

V

Development and what happened here was we made it the same as we have cluster subdivision in.

V

The residential districts as well and what we had done in the residential districts in laura, but.

V

Ties can explain this much better than I can, but basically, when you came through the site planning.

V

Process and you had a cluster subdivision, you had to show two plans: a conventional and then.

V

The cluster plan and you had to show that you could do the conventional and how the? How that.

V

Would transfer into the cluster we just followed that same premise over into the agricultural.

V

um And and conservation district for clustered subdivisions, what is a cluster subdivision so.

V

um It is the same amount of lots allowed as in the regular subdivision, but to conserve more.

V

Open space, especially open space that may be, you know, has some environment our restrictions.

V

You cluster the lots together. You make them closer together to preserve more open space.

D

What restricts how closer together you can do just so, it depends on what district you're in it varies.

V

But the ag district- um two things, uh I would say, are rural subdivision requirements. We require.

V

One acre minimum in the ag system, but I think more importantly, as the health department has.

V

Changed their standards for septic we're really under two acres. It's really hard to have your.

V

Primary and your backup secondary septic drain field that you would eat in case of a failure.

J

So it's not just um it's not just uh allowing it's more, taking advantage of open space opportunities.

A

Isn't it for, when you cluster property, right, you're, creating permanent open space with that.

V

But I mean it's: it's a good thing, yeah! Absolutely it's a very good thing. I think community you're.

V

Allowing for parks and other opportunities for common use in this area, particularly if I remember.

F

Correctly, particularly if some of that land, you couldn't build a house on, so it's just going to.

F

Sit there anyway, so it was an opportunity for the clustering to maintain the yellow lots. If you will.

F

That was often the case when I remember my time on the bcc, so that is all I have prepared for.

V

You, I wasn't quite sure the direction you wanted to go and I just want to delay the groundwork for.

V

What what was done over the last several years and what some of the major changes were and then the.

V

Outcome, obviously, is in the zoning explainer that you have in front of you. Thank you.

A

I appreciate you gave us a lot of information.

A

um Appreciate the maps really it's: uh what we've done in the past is just kind of opening up.

A

Where we want to take it, what are your concerns, your our concerns or questions or questions to.

A

Either peers and the others or you know, here's morgan, [laughter].

A

But uh yeah, could you very briefly go back into tier three again, oh the tears, so the tears.

V

um So you know it's basically uh de facto land use control from the state.

V

um Where, if you are in the, if, if we had designated a tier three, it would.

V

Allow for a large lot subdivision on well and septic, essentially.

A

An argument being made down in the freedom district is the one piece of property disabled.

A

Property that um you know it's currently not on um well, no, no, but it actually isn't approved water.

V

And syria, no no, but but currently it is unwell and septic. It's an improved out sewer and water and.

A

Silver sorry yeah correct that is there a I don't even know. If there's a dwelling on that property.

V

There's no dwelling so it's vacant yeah, but right now it's well inceptive, but it's for our planning.

A

It is planned for ordering silver. I would just clarify, because there is no development, so it.

V

Doesn't matter even if it was in the like the baby property, let's just say: okay, you could that house.

V

Is on well and septic on the baby property, but it's in the service area. So I I wouldn't confuse.

V

The two because it's it's not developed, it's raw land, there's not even a house on it and it could.

V

Be developed on while it could be developed on water and sewer. Okay, so actually cannot be.

V

Developed on one septic at autumn, because it is in the sewer service area, the health department will.

V

Not allow it so the argument or discussion that's been brought up from the community that only seven.

A

Lots to be built on that isn't a true argument. No, that is not back if water and sewer had not been.

V

um If the category had not changed to priority with the last tri-annual update five years ago,.

V

Because we're a little behind, um then that would be true. So in the last plan the 2001 plan, it was.

V

Not recognized to be on water and sewer, but in the 2018 freedom plant it was recognized to be.

V

In water and sewer and the water and sewer master plan was updated to conform with that. So therefore,.

A

The whole discussion about seven lots is not valid. Correct discussion, oh correct.

A

I appreciate that, because that that's the important point of clarification as we're.

A

Talking about these properties and growth of these properties in the desmond growth areas.

A

Now, regarding the baby property, currently, is it allowed to be more than seven lots that puts on.

V

Water and syrup, so it's all on water and sewer, so they're, actually sewer lines and water lines.

V

Actually run through that the county used to extend to other communities surrounding it. Okay,.

A

Okay um yeah, I just want to I kind of knew some of the answer. I just wanted to get out there that.

A

You know people are saying: oh we're going to have seven lots because they're looking at tier four.

A

But it's not a true statement if it's on wooden sewer and or it's in the master plan, if it's in.

V

Their party and actually the health department, will not allow subdivision and development to.

V

Occur on wall and septic, if you are in a priority or a future service category, you can't they won't.

V

Allow you have to build on water and sewer, or else we would have to go back through the.

V

Process and amend the plan. Okay, I just want to make sure that's clear with everybody that okay.

A

um So what uh what do we want to go with this? Well, I have a couple thoughts and since I'm sort.

F

Of mostly partly responsible for us gathering here, I thought I'd come with a statement, but.

F

Again, I appreciate the briefing because you know one of the pitfalls of getting new four.

F

New commissioners in you just did the study. If it looks it was it march 2022 when you completed it.

F

So thanks for bringing that to our attention and letting us learn about that, it's pulling a lot of.

F

Work into it, I've got a couple comments. Maybe it'll help us move forward and it'll. Certainly.

F

Relay my concerns uh so wrote a couple things down. All zoning ordinances include a list of.

F

Defined terms, a list of a list of defined zones with statements of purpose, separate.

F

Use tables for each zone and a list of uses contemplated within that given table.

F

When we evaluate a particular use, we first ask if it is appropriately defined. If not, we need.

F

To craft a proper definition, we then ask in which zones that use should be permitted by.

F

Right conditionally resource prohibited to answer that question, we need to understand.

F

The purpose of each zone, which brings us to this this work session today, if the purpose.

F

Of the zone conflicts with the proposed use, we suggest that it should be prohibited.

F

If the purpose of the zone might conflict with the proposed use, that's when it becomes conditional.

F

I say we because the condition commissioners, under the commission or form of government.

F

The legislative powers that determine these overreaching principles does in fact lie with us.

F

It's my opinion that the carroll county's owning ordinance- and I know a lot of work- was recently.

F

Done this particularly zoning, but it's my opinion that the zoning ordinance in particular to those.

F

That pertain to agricultural zoning order and still needs and needs some updates and some more.

F

Relevant definitions: there are a lot of examples of this. Obviously we just went through a very.

F

Long solar debate- and that is still ongoing- you mentioned agritourism- the the definition.

F

Of agritourism continues looks like it sort of continues to evolve. We've had a couple of public.

F

Hearings regarding that and that word has been used. We have had issues where you know. There's an.

F

Agricultural use and things I use the term mission creep, but things have sort of evolved or I'll just.

F

Use the term evolved into something else. You know things like you know, some of the things that are.

F

Listed here, what is a treatment, a retreat facility, uh I'm proposing and again I know this was just.

F

Done last year, but I'm posing a review of this use table to identify where uses are permitted.

F

By right, there's accessory uses permitted by conditional use or things should be prohibited.

F

The purpose of the zone directly reflects the proposed use. We suggest it should be permitted.

F

By right, if the purpose of the zone conflicts with the proposed use, then of course it should.

F

Be prohibited and again it starts with simple definitions, and that was my biggest concern.

F

And that's one of the reasons I wanted us to be sitting down today. Let's not forget.

F

We, the commissioners, have a duty to protect our precious resources. That's children, neighborhoods.

F

Our schools, families and our agriculture, and what does that mean exactly right out.

F

Of the citizens guide, it lists three specific things that we should be doing and I think, as.

F

Commissioners, it's our duty that we provide for continued farming activities that we can.

F

Serve agricultural land and that will reaffirm agricultural use activities and operations as.

F

Their preferred dominant use of that land, except in certain circumstances, so I want to be clear.

F

There are 14 approved principal uses, there's 19 accessory uses and there's 37 conditional uses and.

F

Those require bca approval. The discussion for me is not about restrictions. It's about definitions.

F

And some of the unforeseen problems we're going to face and will face if we're not proactive with a.

F

Couple of these evolving definitions, particularly in the conditional use, so that that's why that was.

F

My impetus, if you will for wanting to sit down and have this discussion today, because we've only been.

F

In office for about six months, but we've spent a lot of time on issues in the agricultural zone.

F

And uh you know, hopefully none of us are going anywhere for a while. So.

F

I thought it was something that would be worth taking a look at, but for me it really.

F

Comes down to define terms, I mean what are these definitions and do some of them need to be updated.

D

I'm looking at.

D

Conditional but many of those uses have further restrictions.

V

This is not meant to be. Let me be clear: the zoning code I have the zoning code pulled up so.

V

With all of the definitions that we reviewed and updated, yep, yes yeah, so so, um whatever a wedding.

D

Facility in that facility it has restrictions of cattle, it's hard to sit on a property, a.

D

Commercial channel, it's a lot of restrictions and, like our solar companies, just did there's.

D

People out there looking for property that would potentially have account, and it's not it's more.

D

Definitions and more qualifications restrictions, I think, than than a lot of people think there are.

D

So I don't know obviously yeah you don't we don't want to look at everyone today, but I.

D

Don't is there a, is there one, that's a good example to show how it's further.

D

Or not really because we think every everyone has so let me just hold on really quickly so.

V

Really quickly, so you have zoning code which is regulates the use. Then you have your other.

V

Chapters 155 and 156 that regulate the bulk requirements, the setback requirements, the.

V

Distance requirements so that even further restricts, if you think of it, this way, master.

V

Plan kind of general guiding, then you kind of get into your regulations and then even zoning's, less.

V

Specific than the site and subdivision, because that gets really into the nitty-gritty of where.

V

Things can go, enlar mathias can speak to that, but you're right. So each it's kind of like a funnel.

V

And then finally, the building perm and then the once you build the building structure. That's a.

V

Whole nother, you know issue and and restrictive of what the building itself can and can't be so.

A

I didn't know about this work session until it came out on the account- and I mean nobody.

A

You know, I said, hey what do you think about, so I'm not sure why. But I wasn't.

A

Work, we did in the last board of county commissioners and really just last year.

A

Was outstanding again the work group that price led with the community.

A

And the staff was really outstanding, um the definitions that we all participate in once.

A

It was presented to us, you know, I mean it's very clear. We sat around this table.

A

And did exactly what you're saying so my my question is one: is there an expectation.

A

To do this every four years in a development process or review process which is fine, you know.

A

um If there are specific questions on definitions, because because we all participated in definitions,.

A

Let's bring them up, let's say here are the definitions and go through them. I mean.

A

I don't know I just I want to be pragmatic about this. You know this is not political.

A

This is not throwing you know, interest to the community saying I don't want growth.

A

Here I don't want that; no, what is what do we want to do? How do we define it and how do we.

A

Move forward I mean we've got too much on our plate to run for office right now and.

D

Yeah yeah, a lot of it. I objected to to solo and and uh like, for instance, and you've, explained.

D

Some of it already today, because I look at everything we will not watch hours if you.

D

Guys sitting here doing it, but like I, I was miffed that uh equivalent storage yards got.

D

The acreage got larger because there's so many small septic companies that have trouble finding.

D

One in carroll county, so they end up going to another county for a yard and it seemed like we.

D

Made it harder, but, like you described, there was creep and there was again we talked this morning.

D

I guess I can say we talked this morning, but we've talked in prior times. You know we're complaint.

D

Driven you know that always comes up, and so, if somebody creeps to double the size, they're allowed.

D

We don't have the luxury of having 45 people that ride around carroll county and look for that stuff.

D

um And- and I think that's a lot of the issues is, is I I talked to somebody yesterday that has an.

D

Event site and that person you know I joked about it said if, if they're limited to 100 people, every.

D

Time I come to her house, she goes I'm sorry. We already have 100 people, you have to leave, but.

D

She is that strict with it others flat out cheat on everything and- and uh we we probably can't make.

D

Enough rules to make sure that doesn't happen. But but it's hard and and like I say it's.

D

It's it's learning, I'm I'm learning a lot more. Just listening to this yeah. I still object to.

D

Someone, I think you guys did, which is learning more. Why yeah, but but no but but that's that's.

A

Fine, you know disagreeing with decisions made yeah. I have no problems, I'm just saying.

A

If we're sitting here, let's do it, I mean: let's what topic? What definition do we want.

A

To define do we want to say this makes sense? Let's move forward to the next definition.

A

um So you know that that's my point is: I just want to get something done.

A

um And if it's, if we're good with it, then let's move on to the next. um So, commissioner, carlos.

V

Earlier point really quickly, this is just an example of the use table. We didn't have.

V

Use tables before this code revision, but what is in here is what is the description? The land use.

V

Category, if it's permitted or conditional and then additional regulation so for ag it's permitted, but.

V

158002 158.035 158.040 and then we even have for any greenhouse heating plant or any building.

V

Or feeding pens in which farm animals are kept, there's even additional on top of that, so each use.

V

Has additional regulations where they are permitted for the most part, so you can see just.

V

Going through that swing one through each one of these topics, individual word by word page by page.

V

And just yeah, because because this is what we did, this is how we create this, which I thought was.

A

And I still believe, is user friendly? um It's a quick access. I was not um in favor as much.

A

Conditional usage- I was much more of a black and white type of guy, either allow it or not allow it.

A

I got you know being down, I was uh you know not in the majority of many of those conversations.

A

Because my colleagues, at that time, who were more familiar with agricultural communities,.

A

um Said that they should have that conditional, you know that that you know were let's say above.

A

140- and that was fine- I mean again- it's not. It went against the green of me, I'm much more.

A

Of a black and white guy, but but we had those conversations, so I just recommend: let's pick.

A

I'm a little one if it's low-hanging fruit, that is the most concerned. um You know of all these. Let's.

A

Start and and move forward. Well I so I appreciate your comments because I mean I do think we're not.

F

Going to have one of these reviews every year, I think that would be asking too much and- and you.

F

Use the term pragmatism. I would agree with that now, of course, you know that probably drives the.

F

County staff a little crazy, but I think it's the probably the right way to proceed and for people.

F

Watching you know we're talking about these ordinances and definitions. Well, the commission.

F

Can the commissioners change those things? Yes, we can that's part of our job. I mean I've mentioned.

F

A couple times to remind people, you know we have legislative and executive powers and that's and.

F

We should be using them once those are there. We might have little. uh We might have a little power.

F

To change things, but it is within our right and our duty to constantly taking a look at these. You.

F

Mentioned solar, that's obviously a big one. uh The issue with the storage facility over in eldersburg.

F

That's another one. I mean with it's within our right to take a look at the bulk requirements.

F

Which are the difference? You know the spatial requirements and everything to see, if maybe those.

F

In particular, areas uh are, um you know proper or not, and again I mentioned, we've had a couple.

F

It seems like just the list of bro is growing of certain projects or businesses in agriculture or.

F

Zoning, where you know there's that creep involved, um you know for me, there is one glaring example of.

F

Something that's wrong uh so down in my district district. Four. There was a case recently involving.

F

A nursing home, any agricultural district that was surrounded by residential homes. This is a nursing.

F

Home with about 60 plus beds, that is the proposals to make it into a plus 64 bed treatment facility.

F

Drug treatment facility, for I think it was level 3.2 to 3.5 uh people requiring treatment in there.

F

The argument and the definition for nursing homes allowed for that treatment facility to happen.

F

It is my view- and I know the webster's dictionary changes year to year, but it was my view.

F

That I'm sorry, would you pull up the definitions again. Oh sorry, sorry, I'm sorry! I could not.

V

Understand don't worry about it. That's fine, yeah! That's fine! I appreciate it. It was. It was.

F

My it was my strong view that a drug treatment facility in agricultural, which is a conditional.

F

Use is not a nursing home, I mean that's where everybody felt that was sitting in that room.

F

The appeal was approved, the nursing home, which is actually going to become a 60 plus bed treatment.

F

Facility is going to be approved and I feel that that's wrong and that severely is impacting people.

F

That live in that residential neighborhood. Now this is being repeated all across the county.

F

Then and there's certain uh projects taking place in residential neighborhoods and I know we're not.

F

Here to talk about that today, but what really was concerning for me was to sit there during.

F

Summation and have a member of the bza say well when people move into that neighborhood in 1990.

F

The nursing home was approved there, so they knew what they were getting into.

F

Okay, that that is 43 50 33 years ago, in the comment being made well nursing home means.

F

Treatment facility and the people live that live. There should have known what they were getting.

F

Into I think, as commissioners we got to do a little better than that. I don't think that's.

F

A good answer, so that was one of my main impetuses, for you know trying to get this meeting today, but.

F

Also, recognizing the fact that we are spending a lot of our time as commissioners talking about.

F

Conditional uses in particular in the ag, so I think something does need to be done and.

F

It's I'm glad we're having the discussion yeah. It sounds really well said and I'll tell you.

A

I know where I was yesterday that made a comment that the enemy has a vote and time.

A

The environment has a vote and it changes um so yeah. What was allowed 40 plus years ago is that.

A

Something that should be allowed today if the environment has changed, and so in the community.

A

So I I appreciate that, and I agree with you on that um you know absolutely now that may.

A

Be a good conditional usage, I I don't know I mean what we can definitely look at and then.

A

You know, is the bca structured appropriately taking in all of the issues to be considered is.

A

Their recourse from a decision made from the bca, because we know that there's it's you know it's.

A

Very difficult you know, um and uh that also may be something that we should be looking at as well.

A

I think that's set out in state law. I understand that I get it, but it's still some I mean.

A

If it's state law, that's fine, if we don't agree with it, but we can talk to the legislators at.

A

State and say you know, this is becoming way too restrictive and it's overreach, like you say, of.

A

You know government doing this, so it may be something to consider because you're.

A

Absolutely right, we have a responsibility to define and to make what right looks like both.

A

Executive and legislative, going back to your point, is if we create something that's legislative and.

A

We don't have the ability to really govern it, you know, and everybody takes advantage.

A

Of it, then, we also have an issue, because you know it's a law that nobody listens to.

A

um And- uh and we got to be careful of that again not to overreach on.

A

I won't say silly laws, but legislation that doesn't necessarily uh get enforced.

O

So a nursing home is a conditional use in the ag zone. I don't know about conservation, but in the.

O

Egg zone and here's the definition if the board wants to look at it, I think you can close, though.

O

Move you close the left hand yeah, so it's maybe easier to read or bigger. I don't know that helped.

F

That's it. Is there some words to me: do you want to read it? It says.

V

Oh, I thought that made it easier, so you couldn't have to look for it. Okay, so a.

V

Residential healthcare facility, which provides institutional, lodging nursing care, personal.

V

Care and supervision to aged chronically ill, physically and firm or convalescent.

V

Patients who are not related to the owner or administrator of the facility so again I don't.

F

Want to belabored this particular point, but you know the the story. I just told for all the other.

F

Commissioners sitting around here- hopefully you- hopefully you can empathize with the situation.

F

Down there, but if we want to call something a nursing home and let's call it a nursing home.

F

If we want to call it a drug treatment facility, let's call it a drug treatment facility. Let's not.

F

Start off with definitions of definitions and that's that's the pitfall we run into.

D

A large percentage of the people that don't want something next door didn't do their dow jones.

D

Don't understand what the law is and they don't want a damn thing. Next door.

D

To them, including, probably a house, we can't fix that, um and I understand this.

D

We've all been touched by people that need recovery.

D

I don't know that I think of a recovery facility in that building is much worse than a nursing.

D

Home, I don't understand the fear of having that next door and I think I shared this story before.

D

In the 70s I bought a lot and one of the things we talked about, and I said that farm behind us.

D

Is going to be indexed into manchester, it's going to be five houses to the acre. Our choice is: don't.

D

Buy this lot buy that farm or watch it happen and it took 20 25 years, but it happened and I objected.

D

To one lot because they tried to pull one out of our subdivision and violate the covenants on.

D

Our subdivision, but I never objected to the the development that happened because and you hate.

D

My expression but ray charles could see that was going to happen sooner or later and if somebody.

D

And and I had neighbors that wanted to object to it, and I'm like I was here five years before you.

D

Were um I'm sorry, you know, that's that's totally legal and gonna happen now. I do have a problem.

D

With some of the things I've been involved with, where.

D

um We'll say: okay, well, that nursing home it doesn't need a legal driveway. It doesn't it.

D

You know that's just going to make them have to do more store management and sediment control. We.

D

Want to save them money. Well, I think that's wrong. I think they got to have everything legally right.

D

To maintain that facility, but it's allowed there and and I feel much more strongly.

D

About the mini storage, um you know it's if, if I bought that lot next to commercial property,.

D

I would have had the same discussion with my wife and family and said this this this.

D

Could be whatever whatever you know? If I bought on meadow branch road and said, cj miller might build.

D

A blacktop plant there, then I can't complain when they do. You know I I it's. I think we got to watch.

D

Do we want to have good definitions? Do we want to make sure people understand we got to do our best.

D

You know, and I argued about um recovery facilities in particular.

D

We have 170 000 people in carroll county if six of them get up in arms about something I'm not.

D

Sure we need to change it, um we're changing too much for a small minority of people that don't.

D

Understand the definitions and I feel for them, but you know so it's and understand what you're.

D

Saying we need to educate everybody and that's one of the things I like about this. I don't know.

D

How many people pay attention to what we're doing today, but um people need to understand you know.

A

I I appreciate the discussion and I appreciate the point of education.

A

Not everybody is listening to us. Not everybody reads the carroll county times, not everybody.

A

Goes on social media and looks at certain sites or whatever it is. So how do we capture as much of.

A

This information, as best as possible, looking at, is many different ways. These definitions.

A

To to spew out to get out to as much of the community, because um I'm just going to tell you.

A

Being a jew helps because during passover, there's four kids, it's the wise kid right.

A

Linda and uh you know the the faultless or the mean kid- the kid who's very simple.

A

And the kid who doesn't even know how to ask the question and we so our responsibility to.

A

Provide the answers to those that are not that are that are wise, that are nasty that are simple and.

A

They don't even know how to ask the question: how do we do that from our community from our approach.

A

We're not going to hit everybody, but that's part of the challenge because, like you said there, there.

A

May be this small group of eight people that are yelling and what about the wider, then don't even.

A

Know this is going on. You know um we just had this situation last week with um the westminster.

A

Mission mission, okay: I was really upset that we turned down that block grant for the right.

A

Reasons because she couldn't get there, but I'm like what a perfect piece of property to support.

A

A community that needs that support- and I was really just frustrated that it was a few people.

A

That didn't care for that, and I just I don't know if we didn't do enough due diligence to.

A

Get it around to everybody, but if we think of it that way again not being parochial about this.

A

How do we get these definitions out? So it's not a surprise. So it's not wait. A storage facility.

A

Is being built here, how can that happen? It's because that property was zoned, commercial and.

A

Being zone commercial, it out it allowed for this type of bulk. You know growth to happen.

A

um Should that have changed the environment changes changes? You know we should look at.

A

This, but I just again, I want to get back to being not so theoretical, but pragmatic.

A

Let's look at some of these definitions: what are the ones that are really popping out at us that.

A

We want further clarity um to answer those type of questions and and let's figure it out well to.

E

Your point on that, if I might um linda, could you I can't read the entire uh text there for a nursing.

E

Home, I know it says personal care and supervision and then it cuts off. I can't say the rest of that.

V

Supervision, two aged okay: that's fine, actually yeah just stop right there, so so, just for.

E

Everybody's uh information- I just spent the last minute of that uh googling. What is the term aged.

E

The term age did refers to elderly people who have reached an advanced age. This is.

E

Multiple sites that state this now aging is the process of growing older. So I'm not debating.

E

You know treatment, I think it's a definitely needed kenny and I've had that conversation a.

E

Multitude of times within the community, I think my question is: if we're going by definition, the.

E

Word aged is incorrect. Well, no! No! This is an or after that, okay there's an or after that, so.

E

But if we're talking about aged age, by definition, is not anybody in their 40s, it would be according.

E

To this it says or yeah. Well, no, so it says what it says is residential health care facility would.

V

Provides institutional lodging, nursing care person, personal care and supervision to aged.

V

Chronically ill people, physically infirm people or convalesce in patients who are.

V

Not related to the owner or administrator of the facility, so drug treatment patients could.

V

Be considered chronically ill and they do follow yeah. So that's and I think back to commissioner.

E

Rosting's point about the uh the unfortunate situation the other week with that that grant.

E

um What I do find really interesting, and none of us have the answer and none of us can solve this.

E

But from the grant perspective they needed the neighbor's approval and I find that intriguing.

E

In that they need the neighbor's approval for a grant, be it federal state whichever, but then.

E

On the flip side, if someone wants to set up a residential treatment facility, not saying.

E

They're wrong not saying they're right: they can do that without any yes, without any discussion.

E

Within the neighbors you know whereas- and that obviously is state related. So that's.

E

Not something we have control of, but it's quite a variance between those two. It's quite well. The.

A

Grant was just to give them money; they could still build it yeah if they didn't have if they, if they.

A

Had their own money, they could build it sure, but because, like you, I I found that horrible.

D

Yeah, but I think they we didn't, kill it, they were pulling it because they knew they'd have trouble.

D

Getting there right right, correct and and but like you say if, if yuda said, hey I'll give you.

D

The money they could have said: okay, I'm doing it absolutely and it wouldn't have been stopped, but.

D

Yeah yeah, it's it's tough, so I agree with you the age it makes it look funny, but there's an.

D

Or after it, so it doesn't have to be you know um and and and it's it's it's tough and, and I think.

D

When we either want to do something- or we want to oppose something, we try to look at it and uh and.

D

Harder than we would normally and and it's it's tough and and I think we got to watch.

D

What changes we make and I'll use solar as an example like I say, I objected to that.

D

And I've always been a lands rights person, but all those houses all of those streets. All that.

D

Stuff was there way before that rule got changed a couple years ago, and so I had more empathy.

D

For them than I would for somebody with a mini storage, that's been, and you can quibble about the.

D

The wording on the zoning, but it's essentially been okay to build it there long before most of.

D

Those people moved there and and that that gives it a different perspective for me. So I think well.

D

Well, I agree, commissioner garen there's things probably need to be changed. We have to be very.

D

Cautious about that, we don't so many times when you make a change because of one or two instances.

D

Five years later, you regret it because, oh my gosh there's other special cases.

D

There's other unintended consequences and then you have non-conforming use.

A

Then you have non-conforming use exactly which, yes, you want to minimize. Yes, I mean yeah. You also have.

D

That as an unintendent consequence yep, so so a couple of why do I sound so much louder than.

C

Everybody else you're actually talking into your microphone, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do right.

C

So uh so three points uh so first of all to commissioner rothstein's idea about how.

C

Do we disseminate information to residents about where they uh where they live and what surrounds.

C

Them I know we have the app this. The c click reporter click see click record, c-click report.

C

um Is there some kind of an app or some kind of of uh I know gis or gps app where I can put in.

C

My address yes and I can see what the zoning is around absolutely yeah. It's awesome. You can have.

V

It on your mobile phone is there a way that we can. I don't know, put that out on our social media or.

C

Somewhere easily identifiable on the website um is that that might help, because it is on social.

A

Media- and I know uh some of these um blogs have promoted it. um You know, or you know, dark gis yeah.

A

And it's definitely available, so it is maybe some marketing as far as that's concerned. um So yes, I'm.

C

Sorry yeah, please no, no finish your points, I'm sorry, I didn't realize. No, that's okay! I mean if.

C

You're gonna talk about that go ahead, commissioner, okay, so uh so the second thought, commissioner,.

C

Guern with the the nursing home uh and the drug treatment facility uh dichotomy, the difference.

C

There I think it is a valid point, and while I understand that there is an argument to be made.

C

For someone who is addicted uh to be identified as being chronically ill, I think it's also important.

C

To recognize that there is a difference between somebody who may have alzheimer's and they have.

C

Addiction and then out of respect for somebody who needs one treatment or the other. There has to.

C

Be some kind of distinguishing uh definition made between the two? uh You know the kind of treatment.

C

That somebody who is dealing with drugs or drug addiction is going to be something completely.

C

Different than somebody who is dealing with with diseases that come, naturally with with age, so I my.

C

Suggestion would be that if we are going to talk about definitions for nursing homes, we may have.

C

To create a separate category for a drug treatment facility, um and uh so my my third point uh would.

C

Be that uh something that I would like to see in the future, I know I don't want to drag things out.

C

Today or whatever, but uh something I'd like to see for the future- and this goes back to some.

C

Of the the points that have been raised earlier as well I'd like to see- and you can make something up.

C

I I think, I'd given an example in an email about maybe a church being converted into a coffee shop.

C

um You know two uses two design, two uses that are uh ontologically distinct from each other.

C

How I, if I was the owner of a former church, how I would go about from converting that church.

C

Into a coffee shop as an example, okay or or on that note, uh relatedly, an evolving use that is.

C

um That is very similar to what I have now so, for example, if I was to develop, say a mini golf.

C

Course into a full-fledged golf course, or if I was to uh convert a, I think it was a country in.

C

Into a bed and breakfast um because I think those are the sorts of uses that you may be referring to.

C

Commissioner, garen about that that evolving set of uses of the evolving kind of evolving kind of use.

O

So before we go there, yes, you don't mind. Can you can? I speak to your second point.

O

Yes, because that's exactly where I was going so there, there are federal restrictions on.

O

um You know on on federal, fair housing law that prohibit um basically discrimination in housing.

O

um And but um um I've been communicating with our legal advisors and um if the board were interested.

O

We could look into we'd have to do some research to make sure that we wouldn't be running a foul.

O

Of those kinds of of laws but they're, um for we think that it's possible, we could distinguish.

O

Nursing homes from large drug treatment facilities, they're very restrictive rules.

O

On small drug treatment facilities or small homes at a a organization made by and place, you know.

O

Less than a certain number of people, so like small, like eight people or something like that, we can't.

O

Regulate those situation, but um but for these large we think there might be so if the board.

O

Had an appetite to I, we do not have a definition for drug treatment facility. No, we treat it as.

V

Assistant living or nursing home right, so, if the board wanted to, I would suggest then the next step.

O

Would be to send this to the planning commission? Is that correct? For I mean eventually I mean it.

O

Doesn't have to be today, but so if the board were interested, it would be the planning commission who.

O

Would take up the idea of of looking into that right? Okay, so, but if I could suggest, I think.

W

um Further clarification from the county attorney's office regarding.

W

How far and how? What are our limit limitations? Because we certainly don't want it before we'd.

O

Go there yeah for sure, because we definitely don't want to run across a foul of fair housing. So all.

A

Right yeah, I mean, I think, first of all thank you and if there are other so in terms of process.

F

Side effect in terms of process, if there were other concerns, the commissioners had in terms.

F

Of these definitions, because the definitions are important- I mean that's where everything.

F

Starts that's where the zoning administrator I've seen him in these bza meetings. He's got.

F

His definitions in front I mean that's where he's working off of so, if we have additional.

F

Concerns I'd like for us to have the opportunity to raise those within the next week or two and.

F

Commissioner, ross- and you mentioned, you know, conduct commercial industrial, and that is a.

F

Little stickier you're, absolutely right. If you live in a residential, neighborhood and.

F

You're adjacent to a commercial or industrial area, you got to know something might be coming.

F

Down the pike, however comma, if you live in a residential neighborhood and there's a sliver.

F

Of agricultural land and this use is about to take place on it where people are unsupervised.

F

Unsupervised not unobligated to stay right there and within walking distance to krim gold park.

F

You'll start to pay attention and that's what I'm doing we dealt with this with solar. We.

F

Started getting tons of emails you've had your own fun with the storage facility in eldersburg.

F

You get 250 people to show up at a meeting so also freedom park, because you have yeah.

A

um Rss right there across the street and on buttercup, and they also have.

A

um The uh the prison but the correction facility, but the rss you would have people well and you.

J

Have shoemaker as well yeah it's a little far down but or but they would walk over to freedom so same.

A

I mean it's: it's like identical to what you're just describing yeah, it's it's where it's, where.

F

You know what's going on in the community and what you're hearing meets pragmatism and then you.

F

Start as a commission sometimes so I start working these issues, so I I don't want to belabor things.

F

I mentioned that before, but I think that might be the way forward, yeah so yeah. So if I may suggest.

O

um We'll have legal counsel, look at the the issue here to see whether we would.

O

Have we're on firm legal footing by by creating a different, separate definition.

O

um And then we can bring that information back to you. Are there while we're dealing.

O

With definitions and I'm not going to forget your accessory use question while.

O

We're dealing with definitions are there other definitions, you'd like.

O

um To to potentially modify to look at to explore and then we'll turn it over to jay, to explain.

O

Accessory uses and or change and use I should say, and I guess I'd be curious- I mean we all.

D

Need to look at it because again, we're complaint driven, but I'd be curious. What staff thinks too.

D

Because you have tweaked things because you've seen issues that happen more than once and then.

D

One thought before, like the contractor equipment storage yeah before we get into the accessory use.

D

The other thing is communication, and- and I don't know how far you go with it- young families always.

D

Ask the realtor what school, right now, I've never heard anybody say, and they could have said it to.

D

Last four years: well, right now it's hampstead elementary school, but the commissioners are.

D

Strongly pushing that we redistrict you know um and- and I know again I I've told people okay well,.

D

You're hampstead elementary, but you're kind of right on the line. Yeah, you know it it. It could.

D

Be tough, but is there any kind of information we could give to uh home buyers realtors whatever.

D

That that would say you know: okay. Well, I'm on 42 in hampstead across the road is all.

D

Commercial property, but no and- and we certainly can't make a call it's all available to them. Oh.

D

It's all available, but people don't look. I mean I didn't look. You know again to go back to your.

D

Mini storage there's people that even actually said no you're wrong. It wasn't zone, they don't.

D

Believe it after they look at you, but I don't know how we fix that. But the more communication.

O

um So are there other can? Can we identify other other definitions and then.

F

I I want to take a look. I want to continue to take a look, so I may have others or is there anyone.

F

Else as we go forward, and I think commissioner austin brought up an interesting point too, about.

F

The cold conditional use issue, I mean I'm kind of a black and white person as well, so I mean just in.

F

Terms of and again I'm talking about, agricultural zoning, folks, not commercial and not residential.

F

But do we need to consider that there's 37 and is that appropriate again it's about definitions, not.

F

Restrictions, but that may be something we want to consider and to me no, I appreciate because.

A

It's expectation, management of the property owner and when you put in conditional use, is your.

A

Expanding the expectation management- and you know I'd rather them he or she understand this.

A

Is what they can and cannot do? um I, like I said honestly, I was voted down but, and I understand.

A

That properties have the uniqueness in different properties. That's why conditional uses were.

A

You know more inclusive or added in more um than I would have liked, but.

A

Let's say I feel like we did a very good job. I think taking another look at the definitions.

A

Wordsmithing them taking away any of the subjectivity you know, so it doesn't put.

A

People in a bind, especially when they go into the bza, uh is important. um You know if we can.

A

Split definitions uh like nursing, home and large drug treatment facilities- that's fine! I.

A

Well, the rss is in sykesville proper, so I don't know what that's on springfield.

A

It's a it's federal property, yeah or state property. I'm sorry, yes, yeah yeah.

O

But it's still, I guess it's state because we own it right, it's ours, but I don't know what the.

A

Property is itself except state. I think it's out in the spring. It's on spring campus yeah. So, okay.

A

um But yeah, uh uh I I tell you when I bought the house.

A

I was clueless, I still am clueless, but I was clueless in buying a house and.

A

um You know, fortunately it worked out. I had great neighbors. I have great neighbors.

A

um You know in a great community where I'm living, um but it could have gone sideways because I just.

A

Didn't know um and so yeah, so it sounds like the board wants to convey, look again at this and.

O

Convene again, maybe in another couple weeks um and actually with respect to my question, I apologize.

C

I I would much rather have that, in the form of like a presentation that I could look at and write.

C

On, rather than just have, the question responded to now, if that's okay like if some, if you could.

C

Create something that just says: okay, well the create like an informational presentation which.

C

Would give me like an illustrated example of how one business or how one use becomes another use.

C

Rather than just trying to answer it off the cuff here today, if that's okay, can we.

O

Can we brief, except everybody, has a little understanding before they leave and then.

O

We'll follow up with more detail. Thank you, okay uh to your question, commissioner, about.

Q

um Changing a church to a coffee shop if it was in the agricultural district that could not happen.

Q

Because a coffee shop is a retail business which is not allowed in the ag zoning district.

Q

However, if you took an existing church- and there are a few of them in the county that have been.

Q

Converted to a residence, that's going from a conditional use or actually a church principle.

Q

Used to another principal use, which perfectly fine, you can do that as long as it's changing from a.

Q

Principal use to principal use: it's perfectly fine if it's changing from a principal use to possibly.

Q

A conditional use: well, they have to go before the board is earning appeals, but if they're changing.

Q

From a church to something that's prohibited in the ags earning district flat out can't happen.

O

So similar to situation that commissioner garen referred to a nursing home is a conditional use.

O

In the ag zone, so they had to go even though they were staying a nursing home. They went to the board.

O

Of zoning appeals for a modification of their conditional use. Basically, I think that's a proper.

Q

Way, basically, what they were doing they don't, they were told that they were a nursing home before and.

Q

It was approved as that, and they didn't have to go to the bza to get that changed. It was a nursing.

Q

Home and they fit that definition, they decided to go before the board of zoning appeals just.

Q

To get it out in the open and get a confirmation vote from the board that, yes, it's a nursing home.

Q

So that was the reason for for that hearing. Thank you for the clarification since you're.

D

On that hearing, thank you very much. Is that appealable, if you appeal a decision on the.

Q

Borders owning appeals. You have 30 days from the written decision um to appeal it to court.

D

Yeah, so they can take the next, so it is appealable. It involves expensive.

D

Attorneys but yeah beyond that. Well, there's some cheap ones out there. Please tell me so.

A

um Cheap in stature yeah right right; no, so so, um unless there's something else yeah one one.

D

More thing, since uh at least two of us are very concerned about conditional uses and.

D

I don't know how easy or hard this is. um Yes, there's a number of them, I'm not sure.

D

And I'm in an ag area, I'm not sure that a rebel landfill or slaughterhouse is going to go in next.

D

Door to me, you know, there's a lot of restrictions on the conditional uses. They can't go every place.

D

And uh um I I don't, I don't know how we qualify that or or so are you you're saying you want.

A

The conditional uses staying in place you're fine with conditions, but I'm saying if we're.

D

Concerned that there's so many yeah there's like I said even uh yeah,.

D

A golf course a kennel, it's very there's very few properties in carroll county. They fit on right.

D

um So they're not gonna. You know 20 of them aren't going to pop up in your neighborhood because even.

D

Though they're conditional use because they don't fit, but I don't know how you yeah. Oh, I understand.

A

Better communicate that we just caution to as we review these and you're looking at the definitions.

V

And you're, looking at the use tables, I know it's only going to the ag zone, but it has a ripple.

V

Effect on the other zoning districts, first and foremost, if it is a legal use, you cannot zone it.

V

Out of existence, so, if we make it prohibited in the ag zone has to go somewhere and if it's not.

V

Anywhere else in the county, you've got to put it somewhere else. So where would that somewhere else.

V

Be so as you go through that there's a domino effect with each change that you make, and I.

V

Would want to be curious to hear from the legal team whether assisted living, nursing, home and.

V

Drug treatment facility would have to be treated differently so even though you're creating a new.

V

Definition, I think, under the federal, fair housing act, you can't treat them differently. So if you.

V

Say drug treatment facilities are prohibited, but nursing home and assisted livings are permitted.

V

You got to make them all prohibited, so you just can't discern one from the other, so I just be very.

V

Careful as we look for this, and so even though you're defining them differently, that's great.

V

But would it be treated any differently and that's the standard that we're going to be held to don't.

A

Put everything in the industrial area because we have very limited industrial space and properties.

A

That go into industrial, especially if they are tax exempt we're losing opportunity. You know of.

A

Revenue coming into the county, so uh sometimes we say: oh, let's just put in industrial- well we're.

A

Very limited in industrial right now and unfortunately, some of these small recovery.

D

Facilities are giving a bad name to recovery facilities and the large ones I'd be curious.

D

I know springfield has one right: yes, yeah! That's what we're talking about shoemaker and rss yeah.

D

Is it a nuisance to the neighborhood? No, no, it's welcome, and so a large one. I I'd be more.

D

Comfortable with, unfortunately than the little ones, because, like you say they don't seem to be.

D

Very regulated and they all seem to cheat. You know I dealt with half a house, some and they're.

J

So concerned, if they're restricted to five people- and somebody wants to come there, they say no right.

D

Some of the others, I think they do five people until they get all their inspections and then it's.

D

10. and we're completely driven. So unless somebody calls up and says, go go check them, they get away.

D

With it- and I don't know what we do about that stuff- you're right there, but also, unfortunately,.

A

Most of them are in westminster where you live, so the orange is, I mean, just being, you know, truth to.

A

The fact is it's in an area that is not surrounded a community, it's kind of set to the side, and you.

A

Know uh and they do a great job, but you uh have have had wanderers go into freedom park and yep.

A

You know it's it's a challenge, sometimes because it does make some people uncomfortable that are.

A

Walking the path and freedom, at least I haven't dealt with that in a long time, but um it is in a.

A

Area, that's set aside so yeah. If, if I could ask or provide one additional clarification, there's been.

W

Some discussion about conditional use and and so on in the bza process, what I'd recommend is.

W

um If you, when you have time, take a look at section, 158, 133, subsection g, that defines what.

W

The prescribed list of items that the bza needs to look at when they're looking at a conditional use.

W

And so there's there's a, I think, a tendency to look at um principal permitted conditional and not.

W

Approved as a yes, no maybe really conditional use is is a yes also. It is allowed, but there's this.

W

Extra level of of scrutiny, as it were, from the bza as far as what can go there and so there's a very.

W

Prescribed list in code and that's the section I gave you at 158 133g, which lists what the bza.

W

Is required to look at from a conditional use perspective, so just that clarification.

W

Welcome further discussions about what should be allowed as conditional what should be allowed as.

W

Principal permitted and so on, but just for that clarification it'd be helpful to look at that.

O

Yeah, thank you chris. Thank you, yeah, just just out of cure just for curiosity's sake that um so the.

O

The sort of the rule for conditional uses comes directly out of carroll county. It was a case many.

O

Many years ago, schultz versus pritz is to funeral homes arguing with each other. I don't know what.

O

The underlying thing was, but the the standard by which the border zoning appeals is judging.

O

um Is sorry I know my little legal lesson for the day is, um is the use that is proposed going to.

O

Be worse in this zone is the impact these impacts that are up here on the screen dust noise, traffic.

O

Et cetera, going to be worse in this area than elsewhere within the same zoning category so.

O

Is the impact on you know? I think you know of a third asphalt plant in the same area.

O

um You know worse than if that asphalt plant were put where there aren't any other asphalt plants.

O

For example, um so that's just the way it works. So that's an interesting point so that so it looks.

F

Like the final decision was to not allow those as conditional use in the act, the funeral homes.

F

uh Because they're, not in here.

O

And that was 30 years ago, okay, but I understand, but I understand your point: it's important to.

F

Note the the issue of impact, that is the whole purpose really and then it's a permitted use.

V

You actually have to say why it can't be there when you're those two. It's already automatically.

V

Allowed basically right, it's a it's a really low bar for the applicant to get over to prove.

O

That it's that it should be allowed there, that the burden of proof, basically based with that schultz.

O

Versus prince test shifts the burden of proof to the um protestants, the people who don't want it.

O

um There to prove that it should not be there that these impacts that are listed.

O

Up here are going to be worse because of some situation that third asphalt plant.

O

Within you know, a very close proximity to two others, um you know could be worse. Noise, dust.

O

Etc, for example, it's a weird example, but it's one that actually came up at one time.

W

And I would say from a process perspective, though, it also adds that extra layer of public.

W

Involvement, public knowledge and input, because this is a bca hearing- is a public meeting and.

W

Then you advertise it to the surrounding neighbors and so on, so that they're, aware of what's going on.

W

So those issues can be made light to the developer, so the developer can be more conscious about what.

W

They're proposing so and that's exactly what happened with the nursing exactly.

O

For right or wrong at least the public was was very well aware or hopefully was very well aware.

O

Of the situation, yes, any other comments, I think we all have some homework to do, and maybe uh we.

A

Can get this back on the calendar for two or three weeks, we'll get our legal team working.

O

On the question we go with that yeah, I just want to say thank you to everybody. Thank you. Everybody.

C

Thank you I need now is a motion to recess and go into closed for land acquisition so moved. Second,.

A

And then adjourn after that, so move to adjourn after second okay.