Carroll County, MD Board of License Commissioners, 12 Apr 2023

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From YouTube: Board of License Commissioners April 12, 2023

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/boards-commissions/board-of-license-commissioners-liquor-board/

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All our april meeting of the carroll county board of license commissioners order.

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In a tradition for many many years that we begin our meeting with pledge to the flag and observe a.

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Moment of silence and memory of those who have gone before us to make our country as free and.

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Great as it is, and also I would like to recognize the passing of our former chairman.

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Very recently, colonel roland mirror, with that.

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Bye by the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands.

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One nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

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Thank you very much baby seated.

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This time I would ask our attorney mr dixon, if he will call our 10 o'clock case 6438, please.

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All right, k-6438, in the matter of a class b beer, one and liquor license issued to.

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Brian zuber for the use of a a entertainment, llc trading as stratosphere 1332 londontown.

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Boulevard suite 103 eldersburg maryland 21784 violation, hearing sale to a minor.

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If all this matter, we have the following documents.

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A february 17 2023 letter from kelly, safer miller to the board a notice of attention.

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To defend with the box checked, I do not intend to contest the alleged violation.

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Dated february 14 2023.

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A february 13 2023 letter from joe vance to brian zuber,.

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And alcohol compliance violation sheet, my inspector pullen dated february 9th 2023.

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And a notice of violation for selling alcohol to persons under 21 under the letterhead of.

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Brian l d, leonardo state's attorney, and it was signed by a david ford ii.

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I would ask that the file be entered into evidence. You'll accept that in evidence.

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This time I would ask all those who intend to testify in the case they stand, raise your right.

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Hand be sworn in by ms vance: do you swear or affirm under the penalties of perjury.

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That's a testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

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Good morning miss kelly, I believe you were going to presents case yes. Thank you good morning, mr.

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Chair members of the board, kelly schaefer miller, 73 east main street westminster maryland 21157.

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I'm here today on behalf of stratosphere, which is owned by mr brian zuber, who is present and seated.

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To my left, um I appreciate mr dixon's introdu introduction of the file jim has shown us all the.

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Photographs and as our notice indicates, we are not and intending to contest this violation, but we are.

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Here today, to just explain a little bit about the situation a little bit about the establishment and.

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In an effort to offer some mitigating information for this board to consider in its decision of any.

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Penalty, so with that, I will just offer a little bit of information. I also have mr zuber here to.

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The extent the board has any additional questions of him and I've put together some documents that.

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I'm going to just refer to so I'm going to pass a copy of these up to the board as well.

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uh After you do that, can we hear from inspector poland first? Yes, sorry! Yes,.

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Okay, I apologize that's my mistake.

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Vector pullen good morning, jim pullen carroll, county board of licensed.

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Commissioners, inspector and address is 225 north center street westminster maryland.

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Case is on the 9th of february 2023 at approximately 7 55 p.m. In the evening, I sent a.

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Underage volunteer, who was 18 years old into the stratosphere social.

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With the intention of them purchasing alcoholic beverage, the volunteers sat.

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At the bar area and purchased a truly, which is a hard celtzer type of alcoholic beverage.

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And she was served by david allen, ford ii, the bartender. I was then called into the.

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Bar and asked mr and I asked mr ford if he checked id, and he said he did not.

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Recognize it to be a vertical, and he acknowledged that it was an offense to survey miner with an.

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Alcoholic beverage- and he is alcohol service trained. uh The volunteer confirmed that the.

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Id was checked and I then contacted the owner, mr brian zuber, whose licensee and.

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Informed him of the incident uh all the above occurred in ellsberg cowell county maryland,.

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And I'd like to make a motion to.

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Submit some photographs for your consideration they'll accept that in evidence. Please.

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You may proceed. Thank you very much. So just briefly I'll say that I I met with mr zuber and mr.

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Ford, the bartender on duty that night in preparing for this- and I was also the representative at the.

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Initial hearing for stratosphere, so this is not my first time meeting with mr zuber and I can.

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Pretty confidently say that this establishment does more training in-house training than I've.

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Seen of any uh establishment in in my career, mr ford, the bartender on duty has been bartending for.

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Over 20 years he was tip certified he's worked at stratosphere for about one and a half years.

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At that, at the time of the violation, this was the first violation that he's ever received in.

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Carroll, county or other surrounding counties, he has knowledge of passing over 12 compliance.

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Checks in other counties over the history of his career, he was incredibly genuine in.

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Understanding that a severity of what happened and emphasized to me personally, that it was an.

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Oversight and not indicative of his training upon employees training mr zuber requires that.

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They sign a written statement of the company policies, which is one of the things you will.

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See in this packet that I've handed forward, mr ford actually signed that acknowledgment twice.

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As a result of retraining over the course of his employment with stratosphere, so he reaffirmed.

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These policies and I'll get into those in just a minute, but after as a result of this incident,.

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Mr ford was written up by mr zuber and put on notice that any future violations may result in.

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His termination, he was also re-certified through the county's certification program, a copy of that.

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Certificate is also included in this packet marked, as exhibit 2, that I've passed forward.

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I I offer this not as an excuse, but just as some surrounding information that mr ford had.

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Been diagnosed with cancer and had just started treatment prior to this violation, so it was his.

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Kind of statement to me that this was just an oversight on that day that he greatly regrets as a.

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Result of that I he was also unable to be here and speak to this board because of his ongoing health.

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Issues and treatment that he's going through right now he is still employed at stratosphere. He was.

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Given, like I said, the final warning and retrained generally speaking, stratosphere has pretty uh has.

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A very well developed in-house training protocol, so I've included some of those documents in here.

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For you to see the materials that they actually use in their training, but just to kind of briefly.

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Walk you through it all stratosphere does have an in-house training program for all.

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New employees- and they have presentations and study guides on the training, a lot of which is.

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Targeted at the service of alcoholic beverages, so you'll see in here at mark does exhibit three one.

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Of the training presentations and also a study guide, that's provided to all of their staff for.

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The in-house training they have also recently adopted a learning, or I shouldn't say, adopted.

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Purchased a software program that comes with a pretty hefty monthly fee of like six to seven.

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Hundred several hundred dollars- let's put it that way, and this also allows them to input quizzes and.

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Some training cleaning materials into the software program so that they can then can almost like a.

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Continuing education, sort of which they had been doing previously just in person in-house but now.

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It also offers them the ability to kind of do this. Retraining and re-certification in-house.

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But through the software where they can offer quizzes and have these graded and see, you know.

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The the sort of weaknesses that certain staff might be having in certain areas and address.

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Those individually they do they, as you hear, with almost every restaurant type establishment, there's.

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Pretty high turnover at stratosphere and it's also a large establishment. If any of you have been.

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There so they have quite a number of employees and high turnover, but they do um try to have quarterly.

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Tips or tams certification of all employees, they recently sent any employee who wasn't certified.

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Through the county program, we appreciate by the way, that being offered because that's making it.

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Much more accessible for establishments to send staff to be trained as well, so that all of all.

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New employees who hadn't been trained yet went through that certification program. That's only in.

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Addition to the in-house training, though that's not a substitute for that, mr zuber also hosts.

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Pre-Shift trainings and kind of reinforcement of policies- and he does um this- is where I say.

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He goes above what I've heard anyone else doing. He has an app that allows him to quiz all of his.

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Employees at the those pre-shift meetings- and he hosts those at least eight times a month and the.

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Quizzes two example: quizzes are included in this packet, as exhibit four and so the way and mr zuber.

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Can answer any specific questions you have because I'm not a tech expert, but the way that works is.

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That he's able to input specific questions into this app all of the employees participate, and it's.

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Sort of an interactive reaffirmation of policies and laws as well, not just like internal policies,.

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But also the laws of the state of maryland and then he can see how each employee answered and.

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If they answered incorrectly or correctly, and then he can assess whether you know it's an issue with.

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The way the question was worded whether that person needs to be retrained on certain things.

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um Whether they need to make some policy changes that sort of thing, so that's a like. I said that.

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Happens, there's these pre-shift meetings happen at minimum eight times a month with his staff.

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um His existing policies, which were in place at the time of this violation, are.

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That no verticals are accepted, uh they have a card all policy at stratosphere.

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They do have existing signage. That says all of these things that I just said, and they also have.

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A scanner that's available for employees to use to scan ids, and so I've also included, as exhibit.

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Five in this packet that I've passed forward just some photographs of the signage that is around.

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Around the establishment saying exactly those things: no acceptance of verticals cardall policy.

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um This is a licensee who takes his license incredibly seriously. He has a history in.

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Baltimore, county baltimore city, sorry, uh police department, and so he is, I think, you kind of see.

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That exemplified in his training policies and procedures for his employees, but this is really.

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This was a an unfortunate incident that happened with an employee on one day. This is not a an.

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Indication of the seriousness with which mr zuber takes his license or trains his employees, these.

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Employees are rigorously trained on the policies, and dave was very well aware that the policy was.

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We do not accept verticals and we card everyone. There was no question of that when I spoke with.

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Him, and and uh nor through mr zuber's training. um I will also just briefly point out that not.

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I don't, I don't know that this board has any role in this, but on april 4th there was an incident at.

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Stratosphere where mr zuber's bartender um successfully spotted a fake id refused to.

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Service and then, where a manager also observed someone trying to consume alcohol that they had.

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Brought in off-premises the police were called the police resolved the situation, those people.

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um Were ordered never to come back to stratosphere, I think that's a better example of generally the.

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Oversight that you're seeing at stratosphere I mean I don't I'll speak for myself- that that.

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Requires a lot of oversight to have spotted that situation in an establishment like that.

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And I think it's a it's a great nod to their training there. There was some confrontation too.

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With these patrons, which is why the police were also called, but it was resolved nicely and well.

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um And all service was refused as a result of that incident. I also understand that there was a.

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Past compliance check yesterday was that yesterday, okay, yesterday there was a past compliance check.

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Conducted by this board, um so I would ask you to take all of these things into consideration.

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I would I would formally ask that you enter these five exhibits. I guess we should call them.

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um That I've passed forward, but they're really for you to just take a look through and to show.

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To you, the seriousness with which this license, he takes his responsibility in.

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Training, his employees and and consider those factors in in your decision today and as I.

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Said mr zuber is here and able to answer any specific questions that you may have.

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Unless you have any questions.

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Can I give you some information that might.

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Aid questioning, there's a violation sale to minor uh march 17 2021 fine suspended 300.

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Fine suspended, there is a violation sale to a minor april. 14 2021 find 800 dollars.

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Along those lines, I ask our inspector take a look at the wave sheet that we use.

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um And tell us how many compliance checks have been made and how many have passed and.

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How many have failed? According to the stocking from our records? Mr barnhart, we've done five.

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Checks since uh 2020 and out of those five checks, there's been two recorded failures.

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Two recorded failures: I see from our statistics, yeah.

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You just heard mr dixon. I know I need to check that's not on our records.

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Have you had, this would be the third. This would be because there was the initial then.

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There was the recheck right around covid right time period, and then this would be the third.

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Third, okay yeah, as our records or our records, are wrong then about two years ago, as I recall.

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On your on the first compliance check, failed, we suspended the sentence.

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Basically, in recognition, it's not the sentence to define in recognition of.

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Your investment in the community, what you're up against, and and also the timing of, the opening.

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And uh and we and we appreciated your efforts at that time, so it was suspended and on the.

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Second violation: it was the reject yeah. I think he brought it back in and the fine was 800 does.

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That sound right, it does yes, okay and this. This would be a third and uh that's three and a half.

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Years does that sound right yeah, because the first two were like back to back yeah and then.

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There was a two-year break and then dave's. The first was new year's eve of 20.. So and then this.

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The second one was march 5th of 21. right; okay, that's because what mr dixon gives you is the.

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Hearing dates right right: okay, the violate and the wave chart is the violation daily right. Okay, yeah.

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So there they are two violations there. Yeah yeah was.

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The first violation, not at the previous location,.

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This has never changed location. This has always been the same location. You you weren't in the.

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Old mole or whatever they called it down there. No, mr browning, you must go to too many uh bouncy.

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House establishments, because there is one in the mall yeah, I don't know I'm talking about.

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The there used to be one in south carroll- that was smaller version, but this is not.

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It: okay! That's what I'm thinking of what you're talking about yeah this your life.

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Before stratosphere, this establishment in the uh right in the industrial area right there right.

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um And we've been there, we've we visited stratosphere um as a board to uh to look at.

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How you're setting up the ax throwing correct so we're all aware that it's it's a uh it's.

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Quite a large operation and uh I'm thinking pretty successful and it's a great amenity.

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um And you have a huge investment, and I know that you'd like to protect that investment.

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I also know that he'd like to serve the community by having these amusements available too.

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So I guess I guess the question would be now that we've established that this is the third violation.

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Within a three and a half year period, what have you done? I mean your council has violation and.

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Recheck explained very well what you do now. It's pretty comprehensive and it's appreciated really.

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Between the last violation of this violation, what changes did you make in your operation? Yeah a lot.

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I would say um the frustration I was having as um council pointed out, it's the high turnover so.

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None of the employees are with me that were there before, except for a couple managements all the.

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Bartenders the servers they're all new and we were spending a considerable amount of time with paper.

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And sit down and training, and our frustration was how to keep that consistent. So that's.

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Why, between last time and this time, I made the investment twofold, so the one piece of software is.

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um It's 558 a month and what that allows us to do is standardize testing not only with the from.

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A liquor board perspective and alcohol training and everything that goes into that. But it's also.

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Our internal policies and procedures, so that's something that I can duplicate people can do from.

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Their phone, they can do it from home, it doesn't require me gathering nearly 70 employees and then.

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Paying them all, and then we sit down, we train for three hours. They have nearly 70 employees, correct.

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um The very labor intensive, very expensive and very very difficult.

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To try to get that consistency, so that was a frustration. How many serve alcohol.

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uh Nearly about 30-ish yeah um and then you know you guys can attest to that that we have.

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The training, actually we- I was already talking with the inspectors about having stratosphere.

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Do a large training prior to that was another way I was looking at. How do I do more training.

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So, prior to this violation, I was already in talks with conducting more training and certification.

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So that software allows us to to maintain that level and then, additionally, every so.

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Twice a week we have the kahoots training, which is an interactive uh game. All your high schools.

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Colleges, middle school they'll use this software as well as part of their training tools, so we'll.

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Input the questions, alcohol from ram training from tips, whatever happens to be our internal and.

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Then we quiz the staff twice a week and because no two shifts are the same, I do it twice a week.

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To try to constantly catch as many team members as possible, while they're on the clock, because.

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To try to get 30 to 40 people gathered at one time is possible, so I made those investments.

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For the consistency, and then I can look to see, if is somebody just not understanding? Is it an.

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Individual, I can go back each quarter and go what were the you know, top five or ten questions that.

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Most people got incorrect. Maybe there was a sixty percent pass rate on one question. Then we can.

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Devise whatever that question and have a special here here, were the lowest uh correctly answered.

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Questions and then just have one about that, so we can reinforce whatever lack of learning is taking.

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Place, we have a small bar area, as I recall, and then there's tables near the bar area.

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Can people sit at the tables order, food and also order drinks and the drinks.

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Are brought to them correct? Yes, we do full service like a restaurant, so you have like.

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Wait: staff correct in addition to a bartender, I have eight bartenders 25 30 servers.

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I guess that means that you're doing fairly well. As far as yeah I mean we're out of the traffic.

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Flow and correct yeah we're still digging out of the cove at expenses, but the volume is definitely.

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Up it's reputable people really enjoy it. We do get our pushback on the car at all for sure. There have.

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Been some times where people have got up and left and walked out and refused because it, how dare.

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We clearly I'm over, I'm not showing you my id and we've. We've lost some customers in that regard, but.

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um I think we do our training to try to explain people. It's just our policy. It's no offense.

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And mr ford um kelly, you told us that he had many successful compliance checks with.

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Other establishments is that what yours said? Yes, that's correct. He has 20 plus.

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Year, history in the industry and had 12 plus successful compliance checks in other counties.

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And the city, I'm sorry, I think it's like baltimore county and baltimore city, predominantly.

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He's strictly a bartender uh bar manager now he's trying to get out of the bartending because of.

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The cancer it's a little bit hard in his body he's got um repetitive elbow injury from heavy.

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Serving of 20 years, so we were just having those discussions. um He just had a treatment on monday.

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You have any questions, yeah would you say um the packet is. Is that something most of those things.

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Were established from your first violations to now this one, I I think that's what you were saying.

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That, once you had this first violations and you're like well, we have to yeah start to think. Yes.

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We have to do something to, and it was successful until this unfortunate circumstance, which you know.

J

Hearing everything it just sounds like it was just a lapse in judgment being distracted. Unfortunately,.

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um Because what it said he didn't recognize it as being vertical, but on the test he recognizes.

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A vertical license, so it yeah- I I feel for you having owned a business in the past, that the.

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Employees, you can't monitor all of them all of the time, but unfortunately it comes back to you as the.

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License e correct, um but you say up to this point: it seems like what you were doing was absolutely.

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Making a difference is what was going on now. Do you have an incentive if someone does deny.

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Serving yeah, we we give them a meal coupon, so they can use and buy whatever they want. At some point.

H

In time we do have a lot of um it's interesting, there's a culture change and I think the culture.

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Change is stemming from us making this interactive and fun because they think it's a competition now.

H

So there's a lot of hooting and hollering at a pre-shift when we give these quizzes about who's.

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Getting what right and there's a whole podium bronze over gold like and they stand up and.

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They'll make fun of somebody if they get something wrong, so it's actually brought the team together.

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um And we're finding and just want to, let you guys know the book that you gave us. We.

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Did identify a new jersey, fake the other day because they're like this feels a little weird.

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They pulled it out and it's like yeah we're, not we're not dealing with it, so they jumped right.

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On that and right away, everybody wants to tell everybody how guess what I did so, I think the.

H

Culture has changed a lot too as a result of some of these, and I would anticipate that that culture.

H

Would continue to change I've seen. Did they abandon the id? They did not. They hightail it out.

H

Otherwise, I would have given it to you. We had another one where it was literally.

H

um Wasn't even plastic, it was paper that they tried to pass, but point in that is they're they're.

H

Taking it seriously- and I think the awareness is much higher because we do have the black.

H

Light, we have the scanner, we have the training um and I think they like to tell each other now.

H

Who spotted one right? It's interesting, I I find that very impressive that you have engaged.

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Your employees as such that it now has become something that they're owning that they're feeling.

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Your feeling, as an owner they're kind of taking that onto themselves and and like.

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I say I find that very impressive, that you've created that that atmosphere in your business.

J

Yeah thank you and I think I also try to share the business side of that within two. So it's.

H

Not just an individual level, but let's say if they are lackadaisical or do make a mistake. It.

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Not only affects potentially their job, but it affects their paycheck. It also affects.

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Everybody's paycheck, because if we don't have a liquor license, we lose a large amount of our.

H

Customers, the businesses, the events, the deposits that have come through we'd, have to refund those.

H

Because they like it's a whole mess and to getting them to think not just like an hourly.

H

Employee, but what is the bigger context of that? You know. You've got friends that you work with.

H

And they've got kids to feed, so it like that affects everybody. So I'm trying to instill that.

H

Type of mentality in there too, and I think that's helped the culture change a lot as well. Are you in.

J

There often every day I my staff often tries to kick me out, because I'm there a lot and you say.

J

He's going to move into a management position yeah his body just can't handle the pace of a bartender.

H

And he's very good with numbers and pls and mixology he's won contest in.

H

The past and other states about secretions- and he took this yeah- he took this. I think.

H

Very seriously in the fact that he wound up in the hospital the next day. So after um he got.

H

Served he was up all night. It affected one of his treatments. His doctor pulled him back into hopkins.

H

They wired him up to try to reset stuff, because not sleeping and making yourself feel over this.

H

Wasn't good for him, so I'm trying to keep his stress level down he's a really good guy.

A

A

What's the percentage of alcohol sales versus food.

H

uh I'd say: where's price 60, food, 40 alcohol in there somewhere.

A

Getting pretty close that doesn't include the amusements if I include total sales in.

H

There it's like 20 talk about food sales versus alcohol, 60, 65, food.

A

What's the average age you're a patrons.

H

We market it mainly to 25 to 45, but I couldn't specifically say I mean we have people that will.

H

Celebrate uh their 50th birthday parties, 70th we've had a 90th, we've had a wedding.

H

um Yeah, it's we. We get everybody from all kind of demographics. uh We we even have.

H

um A group of ladies and they're, probably 65 and older, and they come in once a month, ax, throw.

H

Like that's, that's, throw that's that's their thing, they love it and they usually get one.

H

Drink each and they giggle and hoot and holler, and they come and have some food at the table.

H

And that's been there every four to six weeks and they take their drinks to the ax story. Gary.

H

uh We'll serve them back there as part of the last bowling alley on the lanes.

A

You serve there too. We do full service, it's a full-service restaurant anywhere, as it is.

H

I'm sorry: how do you, how do you monitor, for instance, in on the bowling lanes.

A

If I buy a drink and take it back to bowling lanes, how do you know or how do you monitor.

A

Whether I'm drinking it or my 18 year old, son's drinking it. So I answer that twofold. So when you.

H

Go to the lanes to bold you're assigned a server so that server is responsible for that lane. Just.

H

Like a table because there are tables there, so we treat the lanes like a restaurant table.

H

um And that so, if these were three lanes, I'd be the server, and this is my area of responsibility.

H

So I know who I'm serving and what they're doing. uh There was a time your year and a.

H

Half ago a dad did do one of the over to his son and the server picked up on it and our general.

H

Manager went over and asked for the sun's id and he said I don't have it and she said well.

H

You know you, you can't do that or you're going to have to leave and that's where it.

H

Stopped so they they do monitor and we do pay attention to that kind of stuff.

A

On average weekend, how many people would you have in there at any one time.

H

um Like it varies from hour to hour evening is busier, but we could have.

H

uh Busy trivia nights, probably 200 people playing trivia at one time- how many would be under 25.

H

Hi not that many we have a couple college teams that play. But again it's that's each section.

H

Gets a server so the server cards each person and then they're sitting there playing for two hours.

A

How about from four to six in the afternoon.

H

We typically don't. It also depends if it's week, night or weekend, but we don't typically pick up.

H

Till about six six, thirty and then that's for about an hour and a half a lot of people come.

H

In to eat dinner, but it's not like a party type atmosphere. It's dinner bowling they'll play some.

H

Arcade games, some families will come in. We have a bookcase of board games and card games, sometimes.

H

They'll sit there and they'll, let you know foreign er city policeman. Yes, sir early 90s, have you any.

A

Experience with restaurants or bars in baltimore city, not back then I worked eastern. It was.

H

Mostly narcotics, heroin, crack cocaine guns violence. What subsequent to being an officer.

A

You have any other alcohol experience, I was homer city or baltimore county.

H

So yeah I was um dui certified like I went through that training. I was recognized as an expert in the.

H

Field of narcotics in terms of training, I did my training with lateral dover to anne arundel county.

H

I did some more dui training there as well. I made the irs before uh testified in court under dui.

A

Subsequent to being an officer after that, no I you have no another experience with the restaurant.

A

Than any other subdivision just stratosphere, you have any idea what the violation of three within.

A

Two and a half years would result in baltimore city. I do not that wasn't good thing. You don't.

A

This is, this is a great idea. When did you institute this procedure.

H

When you say this procedure, you're referring to the packet, it's manual, the exhibits one and two.

D

Are dave's acknowledgment of training and then his recertification exhibits through exhibit three are.

D

The in-house training that we talked about so he might answer that specifically exhibit four- are.

D

Those quizzes he was talking about the interactive quizzes that were implemented in between and.

D

Then exhibit five and the pacific: when did you begin to have your employees sign this statement.

A

About alcohol so that started, the alcohol has always been a thing and, as we've moved from.

H

uh Payroll providers like adp or aps that was a digital signature. So it's a new hire you'd sit.

H

At home you fill out your paperwork, and part of that process is with cell phone policy, an alcohol.

H

Policy and a bunch of other stuff that you sign digitally, so we moved from a company called aps.

H

Which is just a payroll service that integrates with our system to adp, which we just did in.

H

January, a lot of that historical stuff didn't port over because they were at attachments. So we had to.

H

Go back and redo in january, so from an actual like what's digital and what's paper, that's a little.

H

Messy in there just because of that conversion in terms of the tv that was a matter of well, I've had.

H

To duty [music] um six months and then probably another three months building it because it's.

H

Not out of the box, you have to build it. Like you buy the software, you have to customize. It.

H

You have to create it all. You have to make your own videos, you have to import your own questions.

H

It's not like you can just turn it on, so that was probably 90 to 120 days of just testing and.

H

Building it before you could release it. Cahoots was a little easier and we started that. I think.

H

uh uh October november last year, there's another way to kind of ramp that up.

H

So maybe a year year and a half about a year total.

A

Do you have any explanation with all the questions that you asked and so on and so forth?.

A

To me, these violations are all coming back. Basically, the same.

A

We either look to the vertical license or we didn't ask for an id.

A

And the most troubling thing to me is when we looked at the vertical license and served anyway.

A

I don't care how thick this book is, or whatever is in there.

A

Alcohol 101 check the id, and, if it's vertical, it's out, um tell me how we can get this across.

A

To all the people that serve alcohol, because just about every case that we get for a violation to a.

A

Minor today is a result. We either didn't check the id or we checked it. It was vertical and we served.

A

Them, anyway, what can we do three violations in less than three years, you're, probably in.

A

The top two percent of licensees and it's a serious problem. So what what can we do.

A

What can you all do as licensees to prevent that you can train your employees.

A

All day, if they don't pay any attention to it, you, the licensees are the ones that stuck with it.

A

What can we do? I agree and it's it's very frustrating I was having this conversation.

H

With with my wife talking about what do we do and- and she made the comment to me and she's like well.

H

It's not like, you can stand there next to them and like elbow them every single time like no I've got.

H

30 people 365 days of year that are looking for and asking for licenses and um well our first.

H

One was new year's eve 2020. We had barely been up and running right. So definitely not a lot of.

H

Training and iteration, and that should have never happened, never happened because you just opened up.

H

Correct- and I think it went back to, um I think, the excitement and just people.

H

Coming out of covet and what are we doing and worried about all kinds of stuff right.

H

um So our frustration, I think, is all licensees and we talk about it is we beat the staff over.

H

The heads we give negative reinforcement, we give positive reinforcement, we let them know it's a.

H

It's criminal, so it's significant for them. We let them know that sorry. It affects everybody's.

H

Pocket that you're going to have to hire a lawyer if you get criminally charged, it's very expensive.

H

There isn't a day that doesn't go by that. We don't talk to our staff about it to to.

H

Nauseum we have my dishwashers answer. These questions like they know the process. They know.

H

um The answers to the alcohol questions: they have absolutely nothing to do with alcohol. I can tell.

H

You right now ben who works in the game. Room he's one of the fastest ones he's just quick on these.

H

Games, he knows all the answers the dishwasher knows them. That's the extent that we do this.

H

But in those moments where people are having a a bad like even dave, he after he served that.

H

He told me he's like I was questioning myself in that moment. What did I just look at like in that.

H

Moment after doing it, he was like walking it back through his head and he's done it for 20 years.

H

um So other than trying to create a culture change where it's uh almost like an internal competition.

H

With team members and they're looking out for one another and you're positively and rewarding them.

H

I don't have a great answer to say: I can always force somebody to do the right thing. All the time.

H

We all know not the speed, and occasionally I look down and go. I I didn't mean to be going that fast.

H

But I was, let me take my foot off, but if there was a trooper sitting there, I'm getting a ticket in.

H

That moment I made a mistake and I was speeding and I think sometimes in those moments they.

H

Honestly, just space out, like dave, he's going through cancer treatments, maybe he was thinking.

H

About that in the moment and wandered off our general manager, her house just burned down two.

H

And a half weeks prior and it's been a strain on everybody working a lot of hours. I I wish.

H

I had the silver bullet because I'd share it with everybody, like here's, the magic wand. Just do this.

H

It is incredibly frustrating we talk about it, a lot and I try to convey to them it's it's not a.

H

Small deal, it impacts everybody and that's why I made the investment we spent. Thirteen hundred.

H

Dollars on training to get everybody trained, whether 18 and over, because you can it's 18 and.

H

Over everybody got trained, they might not even touch alcohol but they're 18 and over so they.

H

Got trained the software that I pay for the subscription for the cahoots. It's a constant.

H

Weekly thing that we do every week um so just you're asked this question: I'm sorry to interrupt.

G

If I missed it, I was looking at something about incentives to employees who successfully.

G

Prevent underage sale, yeah, we tried the gift card route and they were like yeah, but you feed them.

H

Give meals and that's that's through their stomach, like that's the little.

H

Thing that says here: here's your ticket or whatever you do have an incentive program of.

G

Of sustenance, correct and they seem, we tried different things and it's not really necessarily.

H

What we think works, but what do they respond to so we sometimes we tried lessons, use money.

H

It's interest some of personally, so this is my establishment only.

H

A really good group of people they're not comfortable taking money.

H

I flat out a couple of them said it's kind of our jobs anyway, and it's that's a lot of a lot.

H

Of money that I'm going to be giving away so we went the food route and that was their idea.

G

Well, you wouldn't be giving away a lot of money because it would be a great investment that you.

G

Prevented an underage sale, and so I I'm hoping that there's not a lot of underage people going.

G

In there trying to get served, we do the fakes like any time we have to do refusal it just.

H

Doesn't count like oh somebody came in, it was underage. It may be, like the new jersey fate.

H

That we had or the cardboard one or anything without an id diesel of some kind of stuff.

H

um So we're just not trying to pass this we're trying to look at the bigger bigger concepts. Well,.

G

I agree it's it's basically impossible for you to completely monitor every one of your employees.

F

Yeah, what? What is your refresh my memory of everybody, makes mistakes.

A

The word knows: I made enough of them. What what's your card policy now we id all.

A

Everybody yeah and that's why we've had people walk out on us and you don't accept vertical.

G

Ids, the only way we'll accept the vertical is we. It has to be escalated to management if it's out.

H

Of state, because some out of state I mean they're, they're older, you don't say that very often, though,.

H

um Not very often so it's easy for to go hang on. This is out of state. Let me go talk to somebody.

H

And then they get out the books. They like there's a whole process that we go through.

H

um We have one from new jersey and she's and we said let me she's.

H

Like no, this happens before say it's fine I'll just take some water. Okay,.

A

Any other questions if there are no other questions, uh testimony is.

A

Now closed, we'll move into the final stage before.

A

We do that inspector pull on. Do you have any comments you'd like to make.

E

When this violation occurred, I was actually very shocked because, whenever I've been into.

E

Stratosphere before it's well managed and it's tight establishment for alcohol serving, I could.

E

Confirm that mr ford, he was extremely upset and he did tell me that he was taking uh some.

E

Strong cancer-based medication, so I don't know if that clouded his judgment or whatever. But I.

E

Can confirm what mr zuber does has said about his health state and he I'll say he was very.

E

Disappointed in himself, that being said, miss kelly. Would you like to make any closing remarks I'll, be.

D

I'll be brief because I think you've you've heard all of mr zuber's explanation, but you.

D

Hit the nail on the head, which is if we had an answer as to how to prevent this, you wouldn't.

D

See your agenda would be much lighter, because no licensee um is is not doing all they can to.

D

Prevent this from happening, as mr zuber said, this is the this is a huge part of his business and.

D

So he has gone and I'll assert to you he's going above and beyond and trying to do what he can to.

D

Prevent this from happening, but unfortunately it happens, and so I think all I would ask this board.

D

Is to take into consideration the efforts that mr zuber has made to prevent this from happening.

D

um And and just consider that uh in your your fine or penalty in this case.

A

Any final comments or summary from spectrum pull them. Oh sir,.

A

That being testimony and evidence uh has been presented.

A

Oh is now closed and we will deliberate the merits of the case and come to hopefully a resolution.

G

Mr chairman, I'd like to make a motion to take a brief recess to discuss the merits of this case.

J

Second, dimension: motion's been properly made and seconded that.

A

This commission recess to discuss the merits of the case and receive legal.

A

Advice all those in favor signify by saying aye, aye, close no water. We will take a recess.

A

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we are now back. I make a motion to go back into regular session.

G

I second ocean's been made and, secondly, that we convene and go back into regular session.

A

All those in favor signify by saying aye aye opposed no so ordered. uh We talked about for.

B

Legal advice uh right some of the consequences of uh the potential penalties uh in the case.

B

Thank you. You beat me to it.

A

Now that we're back in session, uh as our attorney mentioned, uh some legal.

A

Questions as to penalties and severity, and so on and so forth, we required some legal.

A

uh Advice with that being said, we'll continue to the resolution of the case.

G

uh Mr zuber, I.

G

I am sure that we all agree on this board that you have done a.

G

Magnificent job trying to prevent this sale to underage patrons your attorney's right.

G

I have not seen any licensee who has made a greater effort, we're going to greater.

G

Expense than you have to prevent this from happening, and we appreciate that.

G

And we recognize it and- and we feel that well, public safety is our top concern that we feel.

G

It's also one of your top concerns, if not the top concern and- and we take that into consideration.

G

Your attorney has very clearly laid out all the mitigating factors that we should consider and.

G

There I think there were many.

G

Under normal circumstances,.

G

We generally follow kind of a guideline about assessing fines based on compliance failures.

G

We use a window of time a number of failures in the window, time and so forth.

G

Generally, since I've been sitting here on a first offense generally fine.

G

Licensee 300 for first failure of a compliance check and we have historically just double that as.

G

The failures accumulate, so a three hundred dollar fine with the second.

G

Violation would be a six hundred dollar fine and you get a twelve hundred dollar fine.

G

um Now this is not a hard and fast rule in this board. There are always mitigating.

G

Circumstances, there's always aggravating circumstances that every case stands on its own.

G

Your case stands on its own um for the reasons that your council has put into record.

G

And then I just did not see it. I I think that you really the best you can and I don't think.

G

That it's possible for a licensee to completely prevent these type of things from happening.

G

Having said that, the the law is, the licensee is responsible, sure, amen. Having said.

G

All that I'm prepared to make a motion, mr chairman,.

G

Unless any other uh board members wish to make comments, no, I think you've said what.

J

Needed to be said, all the comments, if you would make the motion please to move on.

G

Okay, uh I would move mr chairman, that we find the licensee culpable.

G

And, rather than assess twelve hundred dollar fine, that says a thousand dollar fine.

G

In recognition of your efforts, we appreciate it and it's two hundred dollars is not going to make.

G

Or break you, but it's it's our appreciate. You know us showing our appreciation for.

G

The effort you make okay, I appreciate that, uh in addition, we are hoping um that you're able to it's.

G

In some manner through council, if you wish come back to this board and show us some plans on maybe.

G

Delineating the bar area a little bit clearer, you know where uh patrons get their drinks and where.

G

They sit down, have their drinks. It seems to be like your establishment, a little amorphous how the.

G

Flow traffic flow can just go through where people are drinking, and uh I imagine that young people.

G

Are constantly going back and forth through that area and I think it's the sense of the board.

G

That we, we would prefer, if maybe somehow, maybe a little rope barrier or some something to kind of.

G

It might not be possible in your layout, but we like you to think about it and maybe come back.

G

To us, with council's suggestion that something you might do to kind of delineate that for us.

G

um Mr chairman, that would be my motion. Is there a segment of the motion? A second the motion.

A

Motion's been excuse me properly made and seconded that we find the license z, culpable.

A

And assess a thousand dollar fine and suggest that maybe the bar area b uh a little bit more.

A

To find uh for one of the better words, if possible, to channel people to the the area where most of.

A

The alcohol is served where a better view of the customer would be more easily identified.

A

All those in favor of any further discussion on the motion.

A

Hearing on all those in favor signifies saying, aye aye oppose no so order.

A

Mr zuber, we find you culpable and assess a thousand dollar fine, which must be paid.

A

Within 30 days, upon official notification and as I mentioned, suggest that maybe you can.

A

Define the particular bar area and seating area at the bar a little bit more.

A

Any questions, no sir. Thank you very much. Good luck. We hope we don't see you back.

A

Here again and for god's sake, stay hell away them axes. I will thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Attorney mr dixon to call k6439 please.

B

All right, k6439, in the matter of a class, a beer wine and liquor license issued to benny.

B

R kirkner and miss shalice patel for the use of hr ventures. Llc trading is total discount liquors.

B

1438 liberty, road eldersburg, maryland 21784 violation hearing sailed to a minor to follow.

B

This matter, we have the following documents: a notice of attention to to defend with the box.

B

Checked, I do not intend to contest the alleged violations uh sign and dated march 7th 2023.

B

A notice, the delivery of the hearing on february 16 2023.

B

A february 13 2023 letter from joe vance to to benny, kirkner and mitch, hillish patel.

B

And alcohol compliance violation sheet, completed and signed by inspector pullen.

B

February 9 2023 and a notice of violation for selling alcohol to persons under 21 under the.

B

Letterhead of brian l d, leonardo state's attorney and signed and completed by jeremy, then benziger.

B

I would ask that the file be entered into evidence, we'll accept that in evidence, this.

A

Time I would ask all those who intend to testify in this case. Please stand raise.

A

Your right hand be sworn in by ms vance: do you swear or affirm under the penalties of perjury.

C

That the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

A

Maybe seated inspector pullen, I believe you will present this case on behalf.

E

That's correct inspector jim pullen carroll, county board of licensed commissioners inspector.

E

225 north center street westminster maryland. The case would be that on the 9th of february 2023 at.

E

Approximately 7 28 pm I sent a underage volunteer age, 18 years of age, into total discount liquors.

E

With the intention to purchase an alcoholic beverage, the violation it's like the volunteer was.

E

Sold a six pack of busch-like beer, an alcoholic beverage by a jeremy, thomas benson, the clerk.

E

Upon my arrival, I spoke to mr bensing, who admitted serving the beverage to the miner. He told me that.

E

He knew it was a criminal offense to serve a minor with alcoholic beverage and he told.

E

Me that he failed to check the id at all, because the volunteer quote looked older than 21 years of.

E

Age to him he said he was tips or tams alcohol beverage certified. uh I then contact the duty.

E

Manager of the establishment to mr jake marcico and told him of the violation and presented.

E

Him with the uh the paperwork uh all the above occurred in eldersburg carroll, county maryland,.

E

I'd like to make a motion to the board to uh submit or photographs for evidence.

A

They've been shown to they have yes, they'll accept them into evidence.

A

A

A

Okay, this time, mr curtner, you want to tell us what happened.

A

Before you do before, you testify state your name and address for the record. Please and.

A

Spell your lesson spell your last names. The name last name is kirkner k-I-r-k-n-e-r.

K

Mentholation um last name is patel p-a-t-e-l.

A

Your address 7969 blue stream, drive oak ridge maryland two one: zero, seven, five.

A

Are you going to tell us what happened or yes, sir, um set the night up? um Mr jeremy was at.

K

The register and um you feel to um ask for an id for an underage person that was sent.

K

To the store sold them as expected beer um plain simple and check the id, he should have.

A

What's your policy for checking ids.

K

We initially when we were here for the license, transfer that's at 35 and under.

K

Should be required to you know, should be id'd post the violation. I've changed that to 40.

K

And under just to be on the safe side, because someone looking um you know a 40 year old, might.

K

Or a 30 year old might be closer to 20. If that happens, but a 40 to a 20 is a big difference. So.

K

Try to implement that as far as vertical ids. That's a no, but in this case it was just. He.

K

Didn't ask for id, otherwise it would have been none now. So vertical ideas have always been no.

K

Right yeah, it's always been no um and post that now we we have put in systems where we're doing.

K

Id scanning every single register, even my front door as a signage stating that we scan ids at this.

K

Location, all the point of sale systems has the same signage, every single item that is scanned.

K

Through the registers, the system automatically pops up with a scan driver's license prompt which.

K

The cashiers have to either ask for id and scan so they have to hand them over physically for it to.

K

Scan and the system automatically detects if it's 20, mil or under at the same time.

K

They're required to look at the date of birth and everything else and match the picture, so is that.

G

Every customer I'm sorry for interrupting, that's every customer, so we initially did that in a way.

K

um Where it would not let any of the cashiers bypass it whatsoever, we ran into issues where.

K

They were elderly customers and it was just taking too much time so now we made it to a way that.

K

um You do it, you can bypass it with a password, but you still try to do it as much as possible as.

K

Long, if, if you feel like they're 40 up to you, know younger than 40, then just scan it. So you can have.

G

A customer and you can bypass the scan the cashier scan yes with a password, but they still have to.

K

So the way it happens is even if you bypass it, it's every single item. So if they're buying 10.

K

Bottles of wine, then it would ask them 10 times to bypass that, so I've made it to a point that it's.

K

Really annoyance, to a point that they're being you know, presented to do that at least 10 times.

K

If, if that's what the transaction is put it on the wireless scanners, I'll put it on the receipt paper.

K

It's all printed nice and white paper. Don't forget to check id same message: we've had the whole team.

K

Go and get recertified, regardless of where they were with the dam and tips. So they've done that.

K

The entire team whatsoever, even the guy filling up the coolers and non-customer facing they all.

K

Are required to do that? We are using um radio systems now so, with headsets on I've been telling.

K

The team to sort of look out for each other and if they see something you know or someone, that's.

K

Coming either young or what not try to get on the headset and just alert someone else in the.

K

Store so everyone's on the lookout, so we've been trying to do that as an incentive. It's always been.

K

That way that we have, from the day we took over the store, I've said that we have incentivized.

K

If you successfully card, you know, cadet, you get rewarded, 150 gift cards, so that's already in place.

K

um Bill I'm working on another another system upgrade which will require.

K

Deal basically so they will have to scan it at first. So that's like first layer and.

K

If it, if it passes that you have to punch in the date of birth manually, which would force.

K

The cashiers to automatically read the license and not be in a rush, because they'll have to.

K

Know the date of birth to punch it in there, so that kind of builds. A second layer of you know.

K

Protection for us, are you also going to allow a bypass on that one? No, that won't be was this. It.

J

Was this in place when the sale happened? No, the original one was not in sale. No, the scanner, okay,.

G

um Tell us about the signage that you have regarding vertical ids.

K

um Sign is what some vertical ideas is a nail, and we basically have the wii scan id signs at.

K

All the registers, so they just say that we scan ids but what it goes and now across the board and.

K

That's always been that way, since you know I've been in there. What I'm thinking of is signage.

G

um Like uh some licensees have it at the door, we do not accept vertical ids, sometimes that.

G

Heads off a problem, it also reminds the employees right because it's a sign, but I think it's really.

K

Small, so it might not it's customer facing it's by the atm, so there is there, but it's.

K

Not at the registers now might be a good idea, yeah sure, yeah and we've also you know all the.

K

Registers are now equipped with those booklets which has every single id in the united states.

K

Across all the states, so they can identify all the latest versions. So if, if it's an out of state and.

K

They're not sure about it. They'll still go through the book just to kind of cross check if it matches.

K

So those are the steps that we've done so far. Thank you. What um what did the server say when.

G

You questioned him or her about it. um He knew from a moment, mr jim walked back in the store. This.

K

Is an individual that strives to be in the law enforcement he um he's being a manager for years.

K

And it was the server we're talking about. Yes, he was a previous manager and um he's been there. So.

K

He knew what to do. It was just he apologized, and he said it was just a slip from his end.

A

You say he's a previous manager yeah, um so he used to be a manager up until we took over. He.

K

Went to work for the correctional facility, I believe county lock up here. He was a guard.

L

But he wanted to work part-time, so he came back to mickey and asked and he put him on.

L

This really is some of our best people, um I'm afraid to say, but there's been no.

A

With the previous establishment, with with the employee, there was no problem prior, no.

L

He opened closed the store he he managed. He was under underneath the general manager, but he was.

L

Motivated college graduate, no, no, not disgruntled, he just we looked looked at the film. He just lost.

L

Focus, I guess I don't know, I don't know if you can ever get an answer, why they serve him, but.

G

So he worked at the store before the change of ownership years years, yeah and as a manager. So.

G

As far as you know, he's never had any problems before.

A

Another one of those cases would amazes everybody. You know.

A

Just make mistakes was this your first compliance check since you took over? Was it the first one? Yes,.

J

And do we have any records of the previous owner like if it's possible that I did it.

E

I did a compliance check prior to the transfer of the license and they were successful uh that time.

I

It would be, it would be in the fall of tim. Dixon has.

L

We had one in 22 years previously. I thought they had just done a compliance check a couple days.

L

Ago, what did a recheck yesterday at lunch time and they they were successful in that.

B

Well, the license was transferred october 12 2022 yeah, but before that there was a.

B

Violation in 2018. it was a violation: 2018 fine 300 suspended 300.. So that's the first violation.

A

That they had for years right, yeah, that's that store, has always been on top of things.

A

Any other questions: do you have any type of employee manual where you ask your employees to.

G

Read and review your policies regarding the sale of product and they sign acknowledging that we do.

G

Not accept vertical licenses, uh all those things are part of your policy. Do you have something in.

G

Writing for them to look at inside. Yes, that's the same one. I continued. I have not changed any.

K

Of that, since they were really successful with the entire setup, the way they had it.

K

We're using the exact same copies right now, you didn't bring a copy for us today. Did you.

K

No, but that's okay! I I believe you I just I just.

A

Any other questions no.

A

There are no other questions.

A

Iranian evidence is now closed. um Would you like to make any final comments.

K

No, don't come inspector pullen, any final comments other than they were successful.

E

With the recheck yesterday, I actually told the volunteer on the 9th of february when we did.

E

The initial comply check, I said you'll, never, you won't get served in this place. So when.

E

They did it, I was like wow, so it was obviously a little breakdown in communication. That night.

E

And that's all I've got to say: okay, if there's no other testimony.

A

Or comments now closed, then we will deliberate the validity of the case.

G

Mr chairman, total discount liquors has historically been, as I mentioned earlier,.

G

A store that was run very well a very few compliance violations in the past. This is.

G

Essentially, almost like a carryover, since you have the same employee and you're using the same type,.

G

Of employee manual same regime that has been successful in the past, you, I think at your last.

G

Last time you hear you said you're going to try to keep and employ those type of things going forward.

G

And it looks like you might have added a few layers of protection. um On the other hand,.

G

Technically this, you are a new licensee and this is your first compliance check and it's a failure.

G

Never good failures are never good, but first checks are maybe a little worse.

G

The good news is, you passed your follow-up, your recheck.

J

I agree with commissioner barnhart um the first check. It's been six months since you opened and.

J

You would think following the same history of the previous owner, that.

J

You would have passed and- and we realized that things are beyond.

J

Your control, but unfortunately there are consequences to actions when minors get sold.

J

And said I'd be prepared to make a motion. Please do.

J

That we find in case for 6439 total discount liquors culpable.

J

Of sale to a minor violation and impose a 300 fine.

A

Well is there a second has been properly made and seconded that we find the.

A

License z, culpable of a violation hearing for sale to a minor and assess a fine of 300 dollars.

A

Is there any further discussion on the motion.

A

Hearing none all those in favor signify the saying aye aye opposed no. So word.

A

Dr kirkner, it's unfortunate as of 22 years uh of successful business that.

A

This establishment that we find you culpable and assess a fine of three.

A

Hundred dollars, which must be paid within 30 days of official notice from this board,.

A

A

We assess, as I mentioned, a fine of three hundred dollars.

A

And find you couple point: do you have any questions.

A

Thank you very much continued success at the location. Good luck! We hope they don't see. You.

A

Back here, mr patel hope not it's always a pleasure to have mr curtner here, but.

A

Not under these circumstance, thank you. Thank you. Gentlemen. Good luck have a good day guys. Thank you.

G

A

I would ask our attorney mr dixon to call k6440 thank you question.

A

We do this one at a time one at a time. Yes, sir.

B

Hey 6440 in the matter of a class, a bear wine and liquor license issued to jessica, brook smith and.

B

Brian brooke for the use of new carriage house liquors inc trading as new carriage house liquors.

B

113 west main street westminster maryland 21157 violation, hearing cell to a minor in the file.

B

Of this matter, we have the following documents: a notice of intention to defend with the box checked.

B

I do not intend to contest the alleged violation dated march 14 2023, signed by jessica smith,.

B

uh Delivery of notice of hearing uh february 17 2023, delivered by.

B

Hand uh march 9th 2023 received by jessica smith.

B

It is february 17 2023 letter from joe vance to jessica, brook smith and brian brooks.

B

There is a alcohol compliance violation sheet, completed and filled up by inspector pulling.

B

Designed by manager, jessica smith and there's a notice of violation for selling alcohol to.

B

Persons under 21, under the letterhead of brian l de leonardo state's attorney.

B

And it was completed and signed by a ryan thorne.

B

I would ask that the file be entered into evidence, we'll accept that in evidence this time I would.

A

Ask all those who intend to testify in this case stand to be sworn in by miss vance. Yes,.

C

Do you swear or affirm, under the penalties of perjury, that the testament testimony you're.

C

About to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing, but the truth. No, you may be seated.

A

Inspector pullen.

A

Presenting this case, I shall be please proceed.

E

Inspector jim pullen inspector for the carroll county board of license.

E

Commissioners, commissioners, 225 north center street westminster maryland on the 16th of.

E

February 2023, at approximately 5 30 pm I sent an underage volunteer into the new carriage house.

E

Liquors with the intention to purchasing an alcoholic beverage, the volunteer exited the store.

E

With a six pack of mike's hard strawberry lemonade, an alcoholic beverage upon speaking to the clerk.

E

Who made the sale a ryan thorne? He told me, the volunteer was 22 years of age, which was actually.

E

20 years of age, when he checked her vertical id told me he knew it was an offensive survey minor.

E

And alcoholic beverage, he said he was tips or tams trained. I then spoke to the licensee duty.

E

Manager uh miss brooks and told of the incident all the above occurred in westminster carroll.

E

County maryland and I'd like to make a motion to uh supply three photographs which I have shown to.

A

Before you do that, sir, the date of your inspection was when.

E

16Th of feb 16th of february I put december on here for some unknown reason.

E

It says february, at the top I'm gonna put december down here.

E

I was oversight on my part, okay, we'll accept them into evidence. Thank you.

A

They'll remind you that those of you who testify in this case, please state your name and address.

A

For testifying and spell your last name with that, miss kelly welcome back.

D

Thank you good morning, kelly schaefer miller, 73 east main street westminster maryland 21157.

D

um Quickly, can I just clarify to mr poland: did you enter both sets of photos.

E

No just the first just the first case. Okay, should we talk about them both.

D

I think separate two separate things: two separate cases: okay, all right.

D

um I am going to give you all of my information as part of this initial case and follow up with.

D

Any additional questions as part of the second- um I will do what I did for my earlier case and.

D

Yeah excellent.

D

We have prepared a packet of documents that I'll discuss during some of my presentations.

D

So I wanted you to have them at the inception to have them in front of you, so I do have.

D

Seated next to me, miss jessica smith, to my left, mr brian, brook one down to my left. They.

D

Are the owners and licensees of new carriage house liquors? I've worked with them since.

D

Gosh prior to contracting, I guess, to purchase this business and I'm well aware of the efforts that.

D

They've made to kind of establish themselves in the community and get to know their fellow.

D

Business owners and uh the commitment that they have to this license so I'll. Just briefly refresh.

D

This board's recollection from their initial licensing hearing that miss smith manages.

D

This store predominantly and that she also is responsible for the property management side of.

D

The other business that they have together as well. She runs that from this location she has.

D

An office in the liquor store where she also has cameras a camera view of the actual liquor store.

D

And the clerk area of the liquor store um at the initial time that they opened, they had three other.

D

Employees, aside from miss smith, all employees go through a background check as part of their.

D

Process prior to hiring and all employees were trained in-house and also tip certified prior.

D

To starting their employment exhibit one as part of this packet that I've presented.

D

To you is the initial tip certificate from ryan, the clerks training initially.

D

um At the time that they applied for their license, the policy that they testified to as.

D

Part of their hearing was that they do not accept verticals and that everyone over 4d is carded.

D

um They do also train on the diversion program and they require employees to.

D

Sign an acknowledgment page that walks them through that policy as well exhibit three.

D

Of this packet is ryan's signature, employee signature on the acknowledgment page about.

D

The diversion program and the policies of this board as well, that's exhibit three. The.

D

After the first violation, it's hard for me to talk about all of this without talking about both.

D

So excuse forgive me for that, but the after the first violation they did. They had purchased a pos.

D

System prior to the first violation, but received it after the first violation. So that also has been.

D

Implemented and has a mandatory birth date entry and is fully installed in scans and all of those.

D

Things that had been ordered, like I said, prior to the first violation, but was not installed until.

D

After the first violation, the first violation that mr poulin spoke to occurred on february 16th.

D

um They had the evening before that violation.

D

Coincidentally, they had an all-employee staff meeting, they went through policies.

D

They re-emphasized all of the training that had occurred prior to hiring um and yet here.

D

We are on february 16th when a violation occurs with the clerk, whose name was ryan.

D

um Ryan was given a written warning, that's also included in this packet, for you exhibit four.

D

That kind of outlined the steps that he needed to take in order to continue employment. One of those.

D

Steps was to retake the tip certification, so that recertification is also included in this packet. As.

D

Exhibit two: he was also required to observe this board's hearings to just get an understanding of.

D

The seriousness that he needed to take this license. He was also notified that any future.

D

Instances would result in termination- and I will talk about this in just a minute but exhibit seven.

D

Here at 7 and 8., this establishment does something that I know we we wish everybody did, but I don't.

D

Know that everybody does, which is they keep a daily log of everything that happens even if it's.

D

Nothing happened, it's it'll say the date and it'll say who is working and it'll say no issues that.

D

Day some of the issues are related to the serps of alcohol. Some are just like. We had a um a drop off.

D

Of inventory, from this distributor this day, so that log is a notebook, that's kept at the front.

D

Desk and it's required that every employee fill it out during their hours on shift that day, what.

D

I have done, as exhibit seven is compile a summary of that log. That shows you all of the refusals.

D

Of service that have occurred since they took ownership and the employees that um that refuse.

D

Those services and why it why those services were refused. So I will note, interestingly, that ryan.

D

Appears to have learned something after his first violation, because he has two successful compliance.

D

Checks that he notes in the log of refusing service unbeknownst to anyone as to why ryan.

D

Didn't follow the train, the policies? He then had a second violation in between the two instances.

D

On february 26th there was actually an all staff meeting, brian brook one of the owners hosted the.

D

Meeting with all staff they ran through all of the policies they did effectively. Another in-house.

D

Training- and he had a guest speaker appear, who is a well-known manager of another restaurant, not in.

D

Carroll, but um to kind of reinforce the importance of alcohol service, and so they had that meeting.

D

And then, unfortunately, on march, 16th ryan committed a second violation and he was.

D

Terminated immediately upon that violation, so ryan is no longer employed with this establishment.

D

I want to overall, from the establishment perspective note that one of the changes.

D

That they've implemented is that now there's a card, all policy not a card over 40 years old.

D

um They have updated some signage to that effect and just re-emphasizing that.

D

That they do not accept verticals, so I've included in this packet before you exhibit.

D

Five is the signage that existed previously and exhibit 6 is the signage that was updated.

D

um Or excuse me some of the signs that were updated, so none of them were taken down.

D

Just to be clear, it's just some of them were updated with additional information.

D

Like I said, exhibit seven and eight are that incident log. um I think that this.

D

My my personal assertion to you is that this is an incredibly unfortunate situation with.

D

An employee who fully disregarded all of his training. um There was no indication that he.

D

Was going to disregard that training, obviously, otherwise he would not have stayed in employment.

D

At this location, these owners, and and jessica being there almost on a daily basis, overseeing.

D

um Have done just about all, they could have to have prevented this situation from occurring.

D

And unfortunately, we're looking at an employee who, without having him here, to explain just completely.

D

Disregarded all of his training, um I know that these license holders are incredibly upset by.

D

The situation they take it very very seriously, and they are you know just as this board always.

D

Emphasizes looking for every possible opportunity to train an employee for this not to happen so.

D

um You know with that. I do have mr brooke and miss smith here to answer any specific.

D

Questions that this board has, but I do think this is an example of a very small establishment. Three.

D

Employees who are trained uh about as much as they could be, and unfortunately we had.

D

One employee who had to be terminated because that was not that was not sinking in for him.

D

A

Questions of this kelly or the licensees, and may I remind you that we are.

A

Only involving the february 16th violation at this time. I have a question from miss smith.

G

When our specter came to you and and told you what happened, what was the conversation between it did.

G

What did you say to him? um Well, first, I think I'm supposed to say my name and address so it's.

M

Jessica smith, s-m-I-t-h and the address is 2801 manchester road westminster, 21157.

M

um That ryan, I believe I said that ryan knew that we don't accept vertical ideas.

M

I don't understand why he would do it and you were on premises at the time I was or I was.

M

In the office, okay, so you're watching by closed circuit, yes, okay, yeah, miss smith. Can you tell mr.

D

Barnhart, just briefly what you told me about that, I could hear I can hear from the office. What's.

M

Kind of going on and I looked up at the camera and saw the girl and as soon as she left, I went out.

M

And asked him, I said: did you card her and he said yes, he did not tell me that it was a vertical id.

M

Until the inspector came in and I found out that it was a vertical id okay, so that leads me to my.

G

Next series of questions you spoke with brian after you saw her leave this. This is before he.

G

Even spoke to yes, our inspector, yes and you asked if she had been carded. Yes, he said she had. Yes.

G

When you learned that it was a vertical id that she presented, did you speak with ryan.

G

After that and asked him what the story was, I did and he said that he thought that she was.

M

Old enough- and I said, but we don't accept vertical ids- I'm sorry was the response.

G

um Did he acknowledge that he recognized it was a vertical id? Yes, he did.

F

I also met with him three times hold on just a second. Would you like to yeah? Yes, thank you.

I

My name is brian brock and I put down the business address on the sign-in sheet. It's.

I

Fine is that okay, fine um and I'm the co-license with jessica, but uh afterwards I was called within.

I

10 minutes of this incident, and then I met also with ryan, twice individually with him and then.

I

Once in a uh staff meeting- and I think kelly, you mentioned uh an all-person staff meeting, we.

I

Actually had three of those I had one jessica held, held at least two and hold someone ongoing basis.

I

But I immediately got on ryan and spent time with him. As a coach, I would say that I don't know what.

I

He's thinking or what has happened with him, but um his just. I have some history here. His mother.

I

Was our nanny from our 28 29 year old, son and ryan was a baby and his mother watched my son.

I

And him 29 years ago, so I've been able to watch this family and watch him. But I don't know: what's.

I

What's happened with that, I I weighed them very carefully before they hired him. He had worked at a.

I

Burger king for eight years with customer service and without complaints from customers coming in.

I

And out of a retail establishment, um I don't know what he's done and what he's thinking upstairs.

I

At his head to have this uh happen, and when did you take ownership again? Our hearing here was.

I

December 15 a day I will never. I will never forget december fifth december 14, 2022., okay, 2022 and.

I

Then we settled on the business um january, 17 2023., I I was unavailable from december 12th.

I

Who, literally just very very recently I've not been able to my wife, was in a serious automobile.

I

Accident december 12th: that's why she was not here december of 14., I'm lucky she's, walking and and.

I

Alive glad to hear that, but she is walking and I'm in a lot lot more in the in the business. Now.

G

But so when was your uh approximately, when did you first open up this business january 17? We.

I

Settled on the the actual business and the real estate and was our first day of operation. Yes,.

G

And when did you hire uh mr thorne? Is it mr thorn? Is that the list? Yes, yes, uh ryan, was hired.

M

So ryan is my stepson, um so he we had talked about it for a very long time for him to come in.

M

um When we took over uh and he started his training.

M

um He did the tip certification prior to us taking over the business and he actually worked a couple.

M

Shifts with the previous owner before we took over the business, so it had been a conversation we had.

M

Had with ryan for months leading up to taking over, we don't just hire somebody and put them.

I

On there, we, this is a pre-planned pre-thought through we both meet them individually and.

I

Then separately and then together and and did he shadow the previous owner before you took.

G

Possession, yes, you, he worked a couple shifts with the previous previous owner. Also.

G

So you've known him for a long time. Yes, um 28 going on 29 years. Yes, sir.

G

And you said: he'd worked at burger king before this. Yes, he was an assistant manager. There.

G

How many employees do you have uh as of as of today, we now have four I've. Does that include.

M

Yourself or not, not including myself, so myself makes five um they're all part-time. I just.

M

Recently brought um two ladies in part-time that have worked in um a local bar restaurant, okay,.

J

Did the vertical license did it seem like he understood what he had done wrong or.

J

Like the consequences of his actions, or was it kind of just ambivalence, or he seemed to.

M

Have been very sorry about it, um he he did. We went over which kelly gave you a copy of that.

M

um I I wrote him up and told him that if it were to happen again whether it.

M

Be tomorrow or three years from now, this isn't his file and it would be immediate termination.

M

um He uh redid the training the next day, while I, while in the store, so I knew that.

M

He sat in the office, he was in the office for about two and a half hours, so I know he was.

M

In there working in that on that training, because I was there waiting on the store.

M

He seemed to take everything seriously. I I, if I could add, I think, our our watching him.

I

Increased obviously, after the the first, the first incident, so she watched him a lot lot more. I kept.

I

Watching them and talking to him and kind of had some father-son got conversations he's very.

I

Formal with me very quiet, very respectful and you'd- never think this one a thousand, but but.

I

Obviously, not very smart and and then uh but he's very respectful and very formal, not december, to.

I

What what we're doing now he's he takes things when you talk to him seriously,.

J

Did I under remember understanding hearing you say you now have a car at all policy.

J

Since that happened, I mean it wouldn't affects this, because, yes, the person was carded, but you.

J

Have a car at all policy? Yes- and I saw some signage for no vertical ids correct.

M

And our system requires a birth date to be entered or a driver's license to be scanned in order for the sale to go forward.

G

And when did and when did you get that system, the scanner was installed so the driver's license.

M

Scanner was installed. um I think it was two days after that's right: okay, yeah! I had ordered it, but.

G

Smith, smith, you're always there. Yes, I mean at least on the on the premises I am and watching.

G

On close circuit or present in store, I am, I am usually in the store. Yes, there's occasions.

M

Where I'll have to go out for something for the apartments, and I do occasionally.

M

Go home but for the most part I am there about, I would say, probably six days a week.

I

You know and I would add, 50 to 65 hours a week. You know she'll run out but come right back.

G

So on the log that your attorney has provided us of, uh I guess daily activity at the at the.

G

Counter or the point of service or whatever I see uh like here's, an entry on 2, 4, 23.

G

Brandon miller no issues was that was that his entry did. He write that by hand is that him.

G

February 4th, yes, yes, so the log is, is your people actually writing in there and they're writing? What.

M

Happens, yes, they're writing their own information. What they're there any issues during their shift.

M

um You know I agree. I agree with your attorney that this is a really good idea. It helps us.

G

Understand a little bit better, it actually approached this problem in the tips, training.

I

They they took, they mentioned specifically to keep a log in the tips, training and then in my prior.

I

Career in the insurance industry, uh documentation and logs from incoming mail, outgoing mail returned.

I

Mail phone calls: we had a system of tracking things with great great detail, you'll see in.

I

There in one page that I made notes that I want a lot of detail written down on a the note taking.

D

I also think it provides interesting data that we don't often have the ability to see for other.

D

Establishments because I I can't I'm not sure what your initial perception is, but my initial.

D

Perception was that I was a little bit shocked by the amount of refusals to serve that they were.

D

Being encountered with in such a short period of ownership of this establishment, and so I think and.

D

This is a small establishment, so I think this would be interesting, not necessarily relevant.

D

To this case, but interesting to compare with some other establishments, because I think this is more.

D

Of a you know, I would like to think that you'd see a lot of people who are doing great compliance and.

D

Do have one employee who doesn't internalize their training and fails an inspection, but.

D

Overall, you can see an establishment that really is doing their due diligence to refuse service.

A

Go location, location, location well that too there's a lot of independent factors. How big.

D

They are where they're located all of those things, but I was, I was very interested to flip through.

D

Their log and see some of this information as I'm flipping through it, I'm looking for the.

G

Date of the first violation- and I don't see it probably missed it- 216.. Yes, it was 216.

D

Oh you're right, though,.

D

I don't put everything.

A

A note in the right up the gentleman said that he thought that's a good point. That.

A

Was 22 when he looked at her vertical license? Well, her birth date is 2002.. 2 and 22 is four.

A

So how can you uh really think that she was 22 when she had to be 22 in 2024.

D

Mr browning, I think that if our clerks could do math, we would never be here before you.

D

Which is why we've adopted the no vertical policy, because they can't do math and so.

F

Therefore, that's a safe way, the vertical that's a typical thing, look at that still serve them.

G

So on 316 I do see an entry, it looks like. um Maybe it was your hand. Mrs smith ryan came.

G

In at 12 p.m, and talks about underage sale sent ryan home. That was probably you writing that. Yes,.

A

A

We go through this list.

A

If I can get the right page.

A

A

When did uh you first take over january, 17 was our settlement.

I

And we had to leave the settlement table and get right to the 23 of 2023. Yes, sir,.

A

This violation was february, the 16th.

A

There is only uh one two three four entries: uh if this refused and so on and so forth here.

A

Ryan, emily and brandon and emily again.

I

I'm sorry for what you're doing and let me just well, let me just clarify one thing as well: that.

D

I didn't point out, which is this log up until the end of this log there, with the three employees.

D

Were emily, brian and I'm sorry emily, brandon and ryan, so those are the names and then, as you're.

D

Aware ryan's been terminated, and then you just heard miss smith testify that there are now two.

D

New part-time clerks as well, so you won't see their names on here yet. um But that's why you.

D

See those three and then I think, actually you see jessica's name on here once well concerned with.

A

The first case that net goes prior to the 16th of february and there's only four entries here so.

A

uh We'll wait until the next case uh for some questions about some of the others.

I

Is he asking why there's so few entries.

A

No, I'm not asking why there's a few entries because he already had a few days a couple.

A

Weeks is all you had, I'm sticking to that with the number of refusals that were there.

I

Thank you any any other questions.

G

We're kind of considering the evidence up to the first uh violation to.

G

Assimilation of evidence separate.

D

Actually, yeah and you're in a different, a difficult spot, trying to tell us the whole.

G

Picture when we're kind of allowing you to tell as part of something I turned my mic off by accident.

G

So um but I appreciate I appreciate what you're saying thank you.

A

Any other questions.

A

Vector pullen: do you have any questions before we move on.

E

uh This is just a personal observation of mr thorne.

E

As the board knows, I was undercover narcotics detective for a while, and I don't know if mr.

E

Thorne's got a medical problem, he's got a one of the marijuana dispensary cards or something.

E

But he did portray a very heavy odor of burnt marijuana coming from his purse, but I don't.

E

Know if that influenced him or made him under the influence and wasn't thinking correctly.

E

At the time, but that was just a personal observation and that's all I have to say.

A

If there are no other questions at this time, uh evidence.

A

Is closed and we will move into final comments or arguments miss kelly. Thank you, mr chair members.

D

Of the board, I think that you have seen through this packet in my oral description, the seriousness.

D

With which these licensees take their license and have really tried to do all of the training that.

D

They could and are you've heard a little bit of it from them, but let me tell you they are.

D

Just as befuddled as you are about how a clerk could be trained like this and still um serve.

D

On a vertical id and so to the extent that they had any power in stopping that to happen, I think.

D

They did almost everything they could have and unfortunately we had an employee who disregarded.

D

All of his training, so I would just ask that you take that that the training, the policies of.

D

The store and the overall management you know into consideration when you assess any finer penalty in.

D

This case, because I think you are looking at two very responsible licenses- is done what they could.

D

I

May I add something yeah I I would like to add that I'm personally uh uh mortified and.

I

Embarrassed this, this is new to me, meaning being before a board such as this with to be.

I

To be reprimanded for not having something something going wrong, I sat in here on.

I

December 14 and gave my word- and my word is- is everything to me: it's my honor. It is everything.

I

uh At the end of the day, jessica and I are totally responsible, totally accountable- we believe in.

I

Being accountable, we know the rules were not stupid um and we're respectful and responsible.

I

Managers, we did do everything we could with tips beforehand and and uh training beforehand with.

I

Jessica, physically in the store with improving the technology with the pos and the scanner.

I

He's her pre-employment training of the employees and, um at the end of the day, ryan thorne failed us.

I

Misrepresented to us and and let us down horribly and terribly, it is terribly uh embarrassing for.

I

Me personally and and completely out of my background and my and my and my family from.

I

Where I come from and what our values are, I'm an eagle scout and I may be an old man to say that.

I

But I say it frequently because those values they matter to me and I still live by those. My son- is.

I

An eagle scout both of my brothers are an eagle scout and jessica's son is an eagle scout and.

I

We still volunteer in scouting to to this day my wife spent her career in the attorney general's.

I

Office- and we don't disobey rules like this, so I can tell you the seriousness that we take. It.

I

And how remorseful we are, but thank you special problem. Do you have any final comments? No sir.

A

That being said, testimony and evidence is closed and we now deliberate the.

A

Case as presented.

A

It's obvious that a violation occurred. There's no question about that. um The unfortunate thing.

A

Is it was the first time that you were checked after a license was issued and while you have.

A

Done an animal job of training and so forth. Unfortunately, as.

A

Your attorney miss kelly, knows from her expert.

A

Representation of cases it's unfortunate that the license z or the management of an establishment.

A

Has done everything possible to prevent these type of things, but they still happen so.

A

With that said, lady and gentlemen comments, I'm, mr chairman, my comments and we're on the.

G

We're addressing simply the 6440 only yeah the violation of.

G

February 16 2023, which is first compliance check, and it's it's a failure. So that's! That's always.

G

A a bad thing in our eyes, all failures are bad. uh First time you're checked a failure is.

G

It's uh even maybe a little more bad. um However, um I do accept your attorney's characterization. That.

G

You two are very responsible people uh and that you care deeply about.

G

Not serving people underage, and I accept mr brooks comments to the board. I believe.

G

That they are very sincere and they are authentic and thank you thank you.

G

A lot of times licensees, don't speak to us from the heart, or they just say pro forma.

G

Statements, but I I think that you've conveyed how you feel about this case to us very well.

G

um It's it's good that all your employees have alcohol management.

G

Training, I think you said you started that from a get-go, very good policy. Obviously.

G

And unfortunately, in this case it was all for naught. Sadly- and this is your first violation.

G

I do appreciate that you keep a log.

G

Showing the things that happen at your store on a daily basis, because that helps us understand.

G

The nature and extent of your efforts to prevent underage sales. Thank you for that.

G

Point I will make a motion, but I would like to hear from the other commissioners.

J

I would just reiterate everything he said. Sometimes there are things beyond your control.

J

um But ultimately, violation occurred.

G

I'm prepared to make a motion, mr chairman, if he's.

A

A chair, yes, sir emotion, would be in order in the case of six six, I'm sorry, six, four, four zero.

G

Regarding a violation of sale to a minor, I find the licensees are culpable.

G

And I, uh but I move that we assess a fine of 300 for this first violation.

A

Is there a second to the motion, a second that motion this has been properly made in second.

A

And that we find the licensee culpable of selling to a minor, a violation of.

A

The rules and assess a fine of three hundred dollars any further discussion on the motion.

A

Hearing none all those in favor signify is saying. Aye aye opposed no sow order.

A

We find you culpable and assess a fine of three hundred dollars, of which you.

A

Will be required to pay within 30 days upon official notice of the action of the sport.

A

Any questions, no sir, thank you. If not, we will now ask our attorney mr dixon. The call k6364.

B

All right: okay, 63 64 in the matter of a class, a beer one and liquor license issue to jessica.

B

Brook smith and brian brooke for the use of new carriage house liquors inc trading as new carriage.

B

House liquors 113 west main street westminster maryland 21157 violation, hearing sale to a minor.

B

And if all this matter, we have the following documents: notice of attention to defend with the.

B

Box checked, I do not intend to contest the alleged violations signed march, 20th 2023 by jessica smith,.

B

uh Delivery of notice of hearing.

B

March 17 2023, delivered by hand to and received by jessica smith.

B

February 17 2023 letter from joe vance to jessica, brooke smith and brian books.

B

And the alcohol compliance violation sheet.

B

Signing completed by inspector pullen uh dated march 16, 2023.

B

And the notice a violation for selling alcohol to persons under 21 under the letterhead haven.

B

And shoemaker states attorney and signed and completed by ryan thorne.

B

I would ask that the file be entered into evidence, we'll accept that into evidence.

A

uh Is it necessary that we race war or re-sware yes, just time, I would ask all.

A

Those who intend to testify please stand raise your right hand and be sworn in by him as vance.

C

You swear or affirm under the penalties of perjury, that the testimony you're about to.

C

Give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing, but the truth. I do I do. Thank you. You baby seated.

A

Inspector poland, are you presenting this case also, yes, sir, you may proceed please thank you.

E

Jim pullen inspector for the cowboy county board of license commissioners.

E

225 north center street westminster maryland 21157.

E

The case is that on the 16th of march to 2023 at approximately 5 55 p.m. I sent to underage.

E

Volunteer into new carriage house liquors with the intention to purchase alcoholic beverages.

E

The volunteer emerged having been served with a six pack of smirnoff, pink lemonade and alcoholic.

E

Beverage I took possession of this and made contact with the clerk a ryan, adam thorne,.

E

uh Mr thorne is aware of all regulations and knows that serving a minor is against the law.

E

Mr thorne uh is alcohol service trained and he told me he did not check for the id. uh The.

E

Volunteer was 18 years of age and all the above occurred in westminster, carroll county maryland,.

E

And I'd like to make a motion uh to.

E

Present three photographs which have been shown to the licensees and council.

A

We'll accept them into evidence.

D

A

Okay, with that kelly good afternoon, kelly, schaefer miller, 73 east main street westminster maryland.

D

21157, I'm here today on behalf of new carriage house liquors. I have seated next to me to my.

D

Left miss jessica smith and one down mr brian brook the two licenses and owners of carriage.

D

House, and I would also like to ask that this board incorporate the testimony and evidence presented.

D

In case 6440, if they'd be willing, we will accept that testimony. Thank you. uh You heard a lot of.

D

Things that I think were relevant in case six, four, four: zero as well. This second violation.

D

Occurred on march 16th and as a reminder, mr thorne was terminated immediately thereafter.

D

um Despite all best efforts at training and judging character and thinking that this had.

D

Really made an impact on mr thorne, apparently it did not, or at least again I can't speak for him.

D

But apparently it didn't because there was another violation you will. I will point out that in that.

D

um In the compliance or the incident log, if you will there were some successful checks by mr.

D

Thorne ryan thorne in between the two violations so had one been. You know closely examining that.

D

You would have also thought that mr thorne had learned his lesson and, had you know, increased.

D

His efforts at those sorts of compliance, things for lack of a better word, but apparently he just.

D

Again, disregarded training and that's when it became inherently apparent to the licensees.

D

That mr thorne could no longer work at their establishment, and so therefore he was terminated.

D

um And again, my clients are here and available for any questions at this board may have. I will.

D

Say the same thing that I said in case 6440 um again, you have very responsible business owners.

D

Who really are invested in this community and take their license seriously and take this business.

D

Seriously, this is not the only business that they have and they want to maintain and have a good.

D

Reputation with this community, unfortunately, this was a I'll I'll call it a rogue employee situation.

D

um Where they encountered an employee who disregarded all training- and there was no coming.

D

Back from that, so he's been terminated and, as I spoke to in case 6440, there were several steps.

D

That were taken after that initial first violation, increased signage and those sorts of things, staff.

D

Meetings, so I would ask that you take all of that into consideration all of the evidence and.

D

Testimony that you heard that was relevant to this as well in case 6440, in assessing your penalty in.

D

This case, thank you who is emily emily. She works part-time and her daughter. I like that ad also.

A

Well, my comment about uh the summary of the compliance log is.

A

She's on the ball.

A

She not only doesn't take vertical ids, but when two people are present or more people.

A

And they only present one id, she knows what to do hit the door.

I

Emily sharp, yes, sir, and I see you better say that I know the only two uh items on here on the.

A

22Nd of february, and the 3rd of march by ryan, who refused service, is because they didn't have an id.

A

So it raises a question in my mind: how many times, maybe he didn't check ids.

A

During that extensive period of time,.

A

Anyway, my congratulations to emily. She certainly was well trained. Thank you.

A

Lady and gentlemen, have you had any other kind of violations? Is this your your only like I.

J

Know that the two alcohol violations has there been any other issues that you guys have had.

M

um Brandon did have an issue with a cigarette sale. Like the second day. We were open because.

M

He did not realize that there was a difference in age that that the age had changed to 2018, to 21.

I

It was, it was the the very second day that we.

I

It was very, very busy uh january, not so much for sales, but just doing all the paperwork that.

I

They have settlement january, 17 and and also january 18 and 19. The first couple days were.

I

Trying to figure out how the keys work and the alarm- and it was very hectic.

I

But but I will say that we we, after the first violation, we the oversight and watching this.

I

Has uh substantially increased with you know, from the signage to the point of sale, I I remain.

I

Embarrassed even more so than I was with with the first hearing and again I gave my word and.

I

My word is, is everything is everything to me? I'm responsible, I believe in being accountable and.

I

Not blaming other people at the end of the day the buck stops here with us too, when we're accountable.

I

And responsible and uh were respectful for the rules and the regulations, and we have worked very.

I

um Hard to try and improve westminster as a whole, this kelly mentioned the word we've.

I

Invested in the community, but what we have it's not just in this store, let's face it, this store.

I

Is not a beauty, but we are trying to improve it, make it more neighborhood friendly. We, you can't.

I

Change it all in the first 30 days, it's going to take a a year, but I've purchased many buildings.

I

In downtown westminster in the city and have improved them and fixed them up, working with.

I

The community groups, with hsp with mark depot with city housing with the city police, I meet.

I

With all of them before I purchase a building or a business, I go and introduce myself to ask them.

I

What I should know what we should, what they'd like to see, what problems does this building.

I

Or this business cause for the city, and how can we correct it and prove it? You want to get along.

I

With community groups and help you know fix up the city. I meet each mayor from from mr oddsden.

I

Dominic to the current mayor, I go and introduce myself and have a proactive meeting. You know once.

I

They're in I don't get involved in any though politics, but I want them to know I'm here and.

I

And what I do and what I'm trying to do and what they'd like to see and take their suggestions. The.

I

Same thing is true: with this, with this store, I had many conversations with other business owners.

I

um I had called mrs vance for a long a long time before and we'd like to you just can't.

I

Go fix something without going through the city planning and going through, what's called a site.

I

Plan- and there are a lot of things we want to do that over the course of a year we plan to. I will.

I

Say, ryan thorne has created a real, I'm glad he's gone and I feel very much uh misled and betrayed.

I

By him to be to be frank, because you know he's he's unresponsible, but he has set us up here.

I

But it's really part of why we're we're not just doing this for a business to go.

I

Make money and and while while we break even or make a little money with the store, it's not like.

I

Total wine, you know- or one of these you know 10 million dollar sales. This is a store that has very.

I

But nonetheless it's we take it absolutely serious and want to improve it for the.

I

Neighborhood and the community and make it more of a community place for all people in.

I

Westminster can use it not just people that come in to buy a can of beer or a.

I

Miniature, but for families and for everybody that can come in and and uh uh be a patron.

I

And we did have uh ryan, he did thorn, he did retake the tips, we did install the point of sale. I think.

I

I mentioned all this before kelly mentioned. It jessica is absolutely actually increased.

I

Her time on site uh we are we've had we have the signage I did bring in a third party guest speaker.

I

That has helped manage restaurants and liquor licenses in baltimore, county and baltimore.

I

City for years he came in after the first, the first event and, and we held several meetings.

I

After the first event, just so this never happens again, I'm shocked that it happened. I'm shocked.

I

It happened the first time, I'm more shocked that it happened the second time and we you.

I

Know we go we we do try and operate under what I call best best practices, if that makes sense.

D

G

As evidence been closed, no.

A

Well, you're thinking uh I I agree with you, uh mr brook on your philosophy of getting a community.

A

Involved as a I have experienced some situations uh over the years that when the community is.

A

Behind you, it's much easier to accomplish and and serve the people of that community. So.

A

I applaud you for that. Thank you. That's that's our history. We have a. We have buildings, apartment.

I

Buildings and I think, if you call on any of the agencies in the city or in the county that deal.

I

With fixing up buildings from from uh for repairs to problem tenants to the police, where a plus plus.

I

A1 on their list for uh for cooperation, for repairing something and the police would say.

I

Every police officer would say this in the city and um we've even lent our apartments to I'm not.

I

Sure that when they've had um observations, secret observations to observe drug deals or crime going.

I

On in the city, we've actually learned our units for outposts, so they can do observation. We've lent.

I

Our units, when there have been bad snowstorms and they somebody can't get home from the city that.

I

Works for the city, we're definitely team what I would say, team players and that's the way you want.

I

To be in a small in any community, really that's the right thing to do right. It's one last question.

G

um Am I correct that in the second case.

G

Mr thorne did not ask for an id, but he asked for an id in the first case, correct.

G

And when you went to terminate mr thorne, was there an explanation for that? Did you feel.

G

That he might have been under the influence, so I had left the store to go home. I immediately got.

M

A phone call from ryan that it had happened. I believe jim might have heard my response.

M

Wasn't too pretty, I left and came back to the store and immediately terminated him.

M

um He had no good reason, except for I'm sorry and you're, going to kill me so the very beginning of.

G

His tenure at your store, he had a tobacco violation. No, it wasn't him. Wasn't him yeah.

G

But he was the employee for both of you for both of these incidents. Yes,.

A

You have any further questions. There are no other further questions.

A

Testimony is now complete and we will move into any closing arguments. It's kelly. I would submit to.

D

You that my summation remains the same as k-6440 and ask that you take that into consideration.

D

And your decision, thank you. Can you repeat that I missed a third sentence? No, I'm not a kid inspector.

A

Pullen, do you have any final comments? Yes, sir, uh just to confirm, uh miss smith was not in store.

E

When the second violation, when this violation occurred, uh mr thorne did phone her up and yes, she.

E

Was uh it made me blush some of the words that she was using towards? No, I didn't realize: hey. Do you.

A

Blush, yes, I don't believe that I think mr thorne knew his time was up at the establishment. uh Also.

E

Yesterday we did a recheck and that compliance check was a success for the establishment.

A

I can believe you were. [music] I was blushing, a seasoned police officer right now.

A

The smith, I don't believe you said words like it that he's referring to I'm sure.

M

I'm sure I was mortified when I reviewed the camera and realized. I was on speaker.

F

I'm sure he's back at the store in 10 minutes.

M

She just I had just walked in my just left, I mean literally, I don't know, was.

I

It 10 not even my dog, had gotten out so I left a little bit earlier than I.

M

Normally normally do found the dog on the way home and dropped him off at the house.

M

Right back with that uh evidence and testimony is closed and we will deliberate the question at hand.

A

Colleagues, I don't have any words, I'm sorry. I guess that you know the integrity that you.

J

Tried to put forth was violated by an employee, as I said, one of the earlier ones that having.

J

Been a business owner in this city in the past and it's hard and having had fired family members.

J

Myself, I'm just going to say I feel for you, but ultimately again a violation occurred.

G

um So this was a follow-up compliance check.

G

And uh which was failed so there's some interesting dynamics here, same person.

G

Family member, um in the past, what we tend to do is.

G

When there's a failure of a follow-up compliance check, we feel like the licensee.

G

Perhaps isn't taking our role in the community and looking for public safety all that seriously.

G

And we have sometimes actually often in that circumstance, we've enhanced the second violation.

G

Fine, it's usually three hundred dollars more than the first violation, so we double it so.

G

600 for a second violations, what we've done in the past, except when it's a follow-up.

G

um That's very bothersome to the board that there are failures begin with, but then back-to-back.

G

Failures and one of those failures is our our recheck and that's what this was.

G

um On the other hand, those are the aggravating circumstances of this case.

G

And we're not bad. Our hands are not tied to treat every case the same. In my opinion, and I'm going to.

G

Incorporate my comments from case 6440 when I made a motion regarding how I felt about.

G

The licensees in this case and their.

G

And their diligence and looking out for underage service. I still feel that way. Obviously, and I feel.

G

That the mitigating circumstances in this case outweigh the aggravating circumstances in this.

G

Case so, mr chairman, I'm prepared to make a motion uh motion is in order. Mr chairman, I would move.

G

That we find the licensees culpable of this second violation in uh case six, three, six, four and.

G

Following our past practices, note that it's a follow-up violation and enhance the fine.

G

By three hundred dollars to make a fine of nine hundred dollars, but I was suspended three hundred.

G

Dollars of that fine of the 900 fine, as long as there are no violations within a 12-month period.

G

Following this hearing any further violations, so any essence, it's a I'm! I'm moving that the.

G

Enhancement be made because it's a follow-up and we and to be consistent with our past practices.

G

But because I do feel that uh your efforts deserve.

G

Our you know, as us are noting that uh suspend the enhancement and just have an actual payment.

G

At this time of six hundred dollars as long as you don't have any violations over the next 12 months,.

G

That's my convoluted motion, mr chairman, is there a segment of the motion a second the motion.

A

Motion has been properly made and seconded that we find the license z, culpable nk6364.

A

Of violation, hearing sale to a minor and issue, a fine of 900, of which 300 is suspended if there.

A

Are no violations in the next 12 months? Is there any further discussion on the motion.

A

Hearing none, those in favor signifies saying aye aye opposed no, so orders. We find you the.

A

Licensees culpable and assess a 900, fine of which three hundred dollars will be suspended if there.

A

Are no violations within the next 12 months? You have 30 days in which to satisfy this fine upon.

A

Official receipt of the notice of the action of this board today are there any questions.

A

Hearing none thank you very much and we're sorry for the inconvenience that it has caused.

A

To you and I'm sure that you are sincerely embarrassed and we hope not to see you back.

A

Here again in this position, best wishes for you for a continued business success.

A

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, mr chairman.

A

Miss kelly. I bet there were two little ones happy at last sunday.

D

Spring break right now, so I'm going straight is that right take care of.

A

Him yep. Okay! Thank you. Good luck. Thank you sure.

A

All right, the next item to john thank you item for my agenda, says lunch whatever. That is.

A

We are adjourned the 12 15 2, 15, 2, 15 p.m.