Carroll County, MD Board of License Commissioners, 12 Jul 2023

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From YouTube: Board of License Commissioners July 12, 2024

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/boards-commissions/board-of-license-commissioners-liquor-board/

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This time I would call on our attorney mr dixon, if he will call our first case six. Four five.

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Four, please: okay: 6454! In the matter of a class c beer, wine and liquor license issue to leland.

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S schneider glenn, l, hallman and linda g hallman for the use of oak mount green.

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Inc trading is oak. Mount green golf course: 2290 golfview lane hampstead maryland 21074.

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Violation hearing sail to a minor and to follow this matter. We have the following documents:.

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Delivery of notice of hearing case 6454.

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Now his receipt dated june 2nd 2023, delivered by hand on june 7 2023. see by clay.

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Something there's a notice of intention to defend with the box check.

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I do not intend to contest the alleged violation signed by clay craft all right june, 7th 2023.

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This is june 2nd 2023 letter from joe vance to.

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Leland s, schneider glenn, l, holman and linda g, hallman.

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Then there's an alcohol compliance violation sheet uh dated, may 31st 2023.

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With the violation and that's signed by manager, uh clay, craft and inspector.

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Jim parr, then there's a notice violation for selling alcohol. The.

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Person's under 21, under the letterhead haven and shoemaker state's attorney.

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And it's signed by eric carson donaldson. I would ask that the file be entered into evidence.

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We'll accept that in the evidence this time I would ask all those who intend to testify.

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In a case, please stand raise your right hand and be sworn in by ms vance, gentlemen.

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Do you swear or affirm, under the penalties of perjury, that the testimony you're about to give.

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Is the truth, the whole truth is nothing but the truth. Thank you. It may be seated.

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I would ask that before excuse me, you offer testimony whoever it might be state your full name.

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And address it can be business or residence either one and spell your name for the record. Please.

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And gentlemen, all three of those microphones are on. So, if you speak, just pull them to you.

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And speak into them with that inspector pullen, you were on the present the case I am yes thank you.

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Good morning, uh inspector jim pullen board of license commissioners for carroll county.

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225 north court street sorry north center street westminster maryland.

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The case is on tuesday the 31st of may 2023 at approximately 2 50 pm. I.

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Sent an underage volunteer, who was aged 16 years of age, into the oakmont green.

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Golf course, with the intention of purchase an alcoholic beverage, the volunteer seated.

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Herself at the bar and was served with a can of lemonade smash, which is an alcoholic beverage.

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Upon my arrival into the bar area, I spoke to the server mr eric donaldson, who stated he did.

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Not ask for id, though he is not alcohol service trained and he did know it was a criminal offense.

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To server miner, mr dalton seemed very upset of this occurrence. I then spoke to the manager. Mr.

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Clay craft uh when he returned to the bar area, he said he'd been serving there all day and had just.

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Stepped out for approximately 10 minutes to take receipt of some new golf carts. So that was why the.

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The offense occurred. Apparently, uh I would like to make a motion to submit three photographs for.

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The record please, I have shown them to mr kraft and snyder- please we'll accept them.

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I have not done a recheck of the establishment due to it being summer and volunteers being.

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Hard to come by at the moment, uh all the above occurred in hampstead and cal county maryland.

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And from our previous records, this was the first underage violation since 2015.

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And prior to that, they have won in 2003 and that'll, be all at this time.

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Thank you, okay, who wants to tell us what happened or represent the course. I will do that so um as as.

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uh Mr pullen has um stated yes, sir. My name is clay craft c-l-a-y c-r-a-f-t. I am the general manager.

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At oakmont green, I'm also the food and beverage bar manager. It is my responsibility to not only.

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Train but to supervise the employees that are behind the bar. So on the day of the occurrence,.

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um Well, a couple things I guess: first, is we we don't intend to defend it. We don't need as far as.

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um Talking to somebody- or you know, facing the young lady who was there, I think that.

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um It's obvious by the pictures and from the day that I was there in that situation, that.

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She was under 21 and she should have been carded and she should have been denied sale of alcohol.

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Per our policy at oakmont green, and I think we have very good policies- they are posted, they are.

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We have employee meetings where we discuss this. I have agendas here where I can show you that I.

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Do talk about that on every meeting I meet every monday with staff. We talk about this.

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um So really we have good policies, I think. In the past we've we've had denied sales to.

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Cadets that have come through we've been pretty good at that. I think as far as.

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As an organization that should never happen, and it's me as a manager, I don't like to ever see.

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This happen, there's no point in purpose for our business to serve anyone under 21.. It is just.

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Bad business, so um I do have a copy here of our policies that are posted and I do have five tam.

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Trained employees that work for my staff myself when he laid heather, wareheim, holden, schmale and.

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Dylan walker, so I think we've um we've definitely trained staff. We can show that we've trained staff.

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To do this, and I say as far as mr donaldson's concerned, he still does have a job there, but.

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He is not bartending for us and he will not bartend for us, so eric's been working for us for.

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Six years and he's been a ranger starter for us, he did express some interest in getting.

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Some more hours this year so um so I did train him on cooking and food and I was just starting.

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To move him into the bar area on the day of the um violation I was the bartender on duty was my.

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Responsibility we had an outing on the course I did not expect anybody to come into the clubhouse.

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We had a delivery of golf carts that I needed to go take care of, so I did step out of the clubhouse.

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Ask the eric to cover the bar for me: that's when this violation happened, but again, where the very.

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Place that he pulled the alcohol from has a sign on it. Please card. If you do not know this person.

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Please card them, so would I try and get my staff to do is know their know? Our customers know our.

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Regulars know the people that are there and if they don't know them, they should card them.

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And that's the best way to get to know somebody and to get into a conversation with them about.

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Golf or whatever it may be, but that is what I encourage my staff to do.

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So I do have training materials. I do have some other things here. You know alcohol policies, yep.

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There's that and then um two other things that mr benford did uh suggest for future.

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That I am going to implement is a um alcohol training for bartenders barback servers and.

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Have them sign a policy knowing that they have been at least made aware of.

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Our policies and that they will go through a training program and that they should.

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um Basically agree to that with us so that I've got a copy of that.

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And then another thing that mr benfer uh suggested we do was a rewards program. So if anybody's caught.

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Serving somebody under 21, we are going to give them a 200 bonus for denying the sale and that.

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Will be a policy that's implemented and posted and talked about every week in our employee meetings.

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Any questions how many employees do you have all together, so I have a total at oakmont green of.

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42 employees and how many of them will have the opportunity to serve, I would say a total.

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Of eight okay- and that includes the five that are attempts that are certified. Yes,.

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um And do you have a vertical id policy? We do yes, and is it posted.

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uh It is yes and it's in this packet, okay, that is one of the sheets that is.

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um In two places where, where our employees sign in and on top of our beer, coolers.

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Do you have a which is a confusing thing to me, a minimum age policy like oh, this guy looks 40.

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So we're going to card them, so that has not been our policy and the reason it is not is my policy.

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Has always been if I want our employees to get to know the people playing there as a golfer. I.

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Mean it's not a membership course, but the people playing are regular and we know a lot of them.

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So um what my policy is is, if you do not know them, they should be carded. Okay, so.

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Kind of a car at all the person yes and a good. It's a good good way to start conversations.

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And get to know people and ask them if they're interested in you know, starting.

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Tabs so that it's just a good way in for our bartenders, that's what I encourage is.

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Ask them who they are card them, and that gives you a lot of information on them.

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We did not, I bring in martin bernura for id training and that's going to be a yearly.

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Occurrence with all of my staff, so you do bring email or you're going to no. I have. He was in last.

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Year he trained my entire staff, whoever was active in there, and he will be coming back again. This.

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Year and who is he, it's called id training keith actually recommended him to me. He does a specific.

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Tam seminar for your staff- and I just feel that in that situation my staff is a lot more open.

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And a lot more comfortable about asking questions and becoming more involved than the you know. The.

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County tam seminars and I think that he's really good and um it's just a one-on-one with my staff.

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And it's been a really good good for them and good for me, you said martin benoor did you mean martin.

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Johnson or martin johnson, yes, I'm sorry, I did both of them yeah. No, it's yeah you're right that yeah.

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I was getting him confused with one of my golf tournaments but um yeah some martin johnson for.

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Id training llc, and that is one of the oh and our tam certificates. You will see that listed.

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You encourage your people to card when they don't know somebody, yes,.

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So what happens at an outing? They do a lot of carding and adding because there's a lot.

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Of parting, it outings. Yes, it's a and and typically in an outing situation,.

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um Depending on the size, but there's three to four bartenders behind the barn and an outing yeah.

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I mean and we get comments all the time like I've been carded four times today, you're here for five.

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Hours we don't and if we, if I don't remember you, I'm gonna card you so the beverage cart today.

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Card beverage carts card, yes, they are my people and they are trained and they do they do card.

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um And even in uh outing situations, um you know, that is something that I worry about, so I mean.

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We're really I've got two rangers out on the course during outings, one of our things that we.

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Always tell an outing: is we reserve the right to look in any coolers today if you have any outside.

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Alcohol we were going to ask you to leave, so we do try and be very proactive with people.

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Bringing their own alcohol to the course, because that's something that I can't control what those.

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People are drinking if they're bringing their own in. So I think it's. We have a very strict policy.

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um It's listed on our golf carts um when you come in our rangers, our starters, that's their spiel.

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When they talk to people in the first tee is, if you have outside alcohol, we're going to ask you.

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To take it back to your vehicle at this point and if we catch you with it, you will be asked to leave.

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What is an outing, an outing is a get-together of what we would consider a minimum of 32 people.

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And everybody tees off at the same time and then typically it's for a corporate.

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um Fundraiser or it could be also a company outing, it could be a family.

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Reunion, but it is a group of people that tee off at the same time. Thank you.

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She mentioned that how many rounds are played a year. Last year we did 27 000., so in essence,.

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You're talking a hundred thousand people. Well, I think it's hard to quantify that just because.

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Some people might play 50 times a year, I mean so. Every one of those rounds is counted, so I would.

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Say a unique 50 000 people would probably be a more accurate number. That's my point. Okay! Yes, sir.

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Technically there could be that many people, whether it's two or three times or five times or.

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Your legs that you have and so on and so forth. So what I'm getting at.

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Is possibly there's a hundred thousand times.

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To serve somebody, alcohol that is correct,.

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Is this mr donaldson's, first time serving, um it was his second time behind the bar.

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And was he the only other employee there to my point being until someone is more familiar.

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With it and or alcohol management trained, although you do bring in marty so there's that.

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um It may be a different choice in the future. No, I agree 100. That was my um my poor decision, but at.

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The same time, I was kind of in a situation where I needed to step out. um It was a busy day that.

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Day and I had carded a lot of people, there was a lot going on. It was our first real lol of the day.

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I had had two new beverage carts delivered three four hours before this, and that was my.

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First opportunity to step out of the building and of course mr jim comes in at that time, so.

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I don't think I don't think he was had. The binoculars like like keith, says down the street.

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But so normally adding you have several behind the bar. Oh at least three 21 year olds, behind the bar.

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At least but this was also an outing. There was no outing. That day we had group league play like.

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um I had my senior league out that day I had a couple like I don't consider like.

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Golf clubs and outing necessarily like so you get like 12 retirees and they'll.

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Come play every two three weeks, so that's the kind of stuff we had going on that day.

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It's my mistake, I I thought you said well, it was it was a league play. It was group group play.

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um And in a in a golf course situation, it's typically very predictable when your people.

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Are going to come in, I mean about eight every eight minutes. You have a group coming in the.

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Door and that's because our tee times go off every eight minutes off of number one.

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So when they come off of nine, they typically will stop in the clubhouse to get something.

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To drink, get a hot dog go to the bathroom um and then eight minutes later. The next group comes so.

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That's kind of it's a very predictable way of you know bringing your customers in the door so so in.

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Your exhibit number one on the last page there is this uh graphic. Yes, uh what is this in a packet.

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Is this given to each employer? No, I have that on our walls. I have that taped to our beer. Cooler. Yes,.

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And I know one of the things that we've trained on this year is.

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um Something martin brought up was that they are issuing ids now.

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For under 21 that are not vertical, so that's something that I've been really pushing. Staff is.

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To learn, you know, look at birth dates and not just look and make sure it's vertical or horizontal.

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So you've got to know where the birth date is and you've got to be proactive about that because they.

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Will issue licenses now a week before your 21st birthday that are not vertical, so that's something.

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We've worried about this year and trained on, but very few people actually know that and that's why.

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Bringing in id training gives us an advantage. I think that not everybody knows about so.

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Because it takes a while because you can't get a license that has to be sent to you.

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In the mail, you don't pick up your license the day. You turn that's correct, so they're saying.

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So your policy and and is to card customers that you do not know. Yes, maybe it's better.

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Spoken or maybe better written card customers who I do not know their age.

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No just a suggestion, uh you know you can see someone regularly and.

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Mistake them for being of age, I guess right or it got served by somebody else who didn't card.

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And use and you think when they come back again an hour later, that they work hard.

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Okay, just a thought: no, I get it.

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All the questions group.

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Anything else you'd like to tell us. um I would just say that I think I have a really good staff.

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They've been trained several times on ids, we talk about it every monday, in a staff meeting.

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We do try and be proactive. I think, as far as what.

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I put eric in a bad position and I put ourselves in a bad position and I'm 50 years old and I'm.

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Still learning lessons in life so um but I I am a very proactive manager. I am an on-premise.

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Manager who is involved in everything, so I have a really good relationship with staff.

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They're really good. I have good confidence in my staff. I think what happened with eric was.

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Unfortunate and there's things we've learned that we're going to do to not have that happen again.

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So I did have a question: if you don't mind, did he say why he didn't card her? um As far as I know, he.

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Said that he she he thought she could have been 21.. So really. I was wondering if you're going.

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To say he thought he knew her, because I think we required people we don't know. I think I know that.

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Clearly did not follow our policy, I mean, and that's going to be. I just wondered if he had.

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A line that I told because he did not follow our policy, she really did not, and we have good.

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Policies that should prevent this so following our policies will prevent underage serving.

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You have a question, you know the gentle, mr snyder, you know the gentleman you want to say anything.

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I know that we've had some training. Yesterday I think. Yesterday you went.

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To you went to catherine's cause yesterday and and did complete his catherine's cause um that.

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Was one of the things that um as a server- and I'm sure you guys know this, it's just something that.

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He was asked to do and he did complete that yesterday, so that is have you have. You talked to.

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Him since he went to that today, um yeah we talked this morning. Yes didn't. What do you say about it.

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Very touching very moving and it's really affected him. It brought tears to his eyes when he left.

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It's it's a very emotional thing and it drives the point of drinking and driving across very.

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Well, that's the reason I asked that is when I first came on this board. I attended one of those.

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Sessions- and I just wanted your reaction- it just happened to run in to captain mulligan and cindy.

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Yesterday and they said that they were having a session last night, and it's uh if you go, if you.

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Go there it's about two hours two hour and a half you don't get upset, sometimes doing that thing.

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You're a pretty stone face, I can tell you that's the only reason I asked that.

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I'd just like to add that I feel very confident in the policy and the enforcement of underage.

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Serving at our golf course, I know that they make a good effort. I think this was just kind.

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Of a very unusual situation, he'd lacked training, he lacked experience and we were caught at a bad.

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Time we made a mistake and we admit that we made a mistake, but we try our very best, and I know that.

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Clay takes it very serious or alcohol policy, and I have all the confidence in the world in our staff.

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What's your name leland l-e-l-a-n-d, snyder, s-n-y-d-e-r,.

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There are no other questions.

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Testimony is now closed and we will have final summation and remarks. Mr.

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Jim, do you have any final comments? uh Just briefly, uh it was the first time I'd use this volunteer.

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And I said she came from directly from school and I said let's go to the golf club because.

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You won't get served in there. I just want to show you go through the process. They're very tight and.

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You're not going to get served, and this seems to be a thing which I jinx myself. Every time.

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Because every time I say that someone, we always get an alcohol violation. So uh I'm not going to.

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Use that term anymore, but I was very surprised it happened um both mr mr kraft was very ups, not.

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Upset but you could tell he was disappointed. The curtains had happened, uh mr donaldson, you could.

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Tell he was upset, he's a he's former member of the u.s marine corps and you could tell it's like.

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I'm I've been in the military he felt like he'd sort of like failed, so yeah. I think.

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I think the message got was was delivered on that day and that's all I've got to say.

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Grab you excuse me, you want to make any final comments. um No, I think I've said everything I.

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Have a good staff and um it was an unfortunate situation. We are going to put more policies in.

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Place to prevent it, I think the bonus programs, the staff, knowing about that.

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um Is definitely going to put it in their head and it's going to be something that I continuously.

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um Talk about I mean every day I remind my staff to card people, so I will not relax.

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Policies going forward- that's all I can say thank you for listening to us today.

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Thank you excuse me. Thank you very much uh before we deliberate on the.

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Conditions of the sale I'd just like to say I haven't, played golf for six or seven years, but I.

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Used to play three four times a week and any time that uh I ever had the occasion to play whether it.

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Was a outing or uh [music] mr roth mentioned uh 15 or 20 guys playing over there, the facilities and.

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The reception that management has always presented in this I'm going back years ever since snyder.

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First started the golf course which now you know how old I am the teenager. I.

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Guarantee you that they've always been very professional. So with that said,.

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You know closed testimony and number eight case. Commissioners.

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It's very obvious to me that mr kraft is is extremely dedicated to the facility.

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um Just looking at your pictures, I got to commend you for hanging a picture of a vertical license.

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Because it's amazing to me sometimes when we ask the people in front of us about vertical license.

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Like they act like they've, never seen one, so they don't know what it means. So that is great in my.

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Book, um it's obvious that you've tried everything you can do. It was an unfortunate circumstance.

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um It's commendable that moving forward you've already put policies in place that will hopefully.

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Further and you know imposing people's minds that you know we are not going to serve a minor.

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So they said I just want to give you kudos for running the establishment. The way you do.

G

Well, um policies that you had in place are good better than a lot of licensees.

G

It seems that your training is generally good. Having martin johnson come in is.

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It's always a good thing for a licensing. I think I think it does a very good job of training.

G

Your employees and and licenses, if they're there and I'm glad you now have an incentive program.

G

There may have been something that was suggested by maury johnson or not. I don't.

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Know, but it's 200 is a good incentive, so do you do you want to? The testimony was that I made.

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That suggestion to him he did he did. I know I said, I'm glad, I'm glad that he's doing it.

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But you didn't you, we gave it to marty johnson, it made you suggestion.

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No, I said I don't know if marty johnson made a suggestion about uh an incentive program during.

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His training, but I'm glad that I'm glad that mr benfer stepped in and gave you that information.

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Because mr benford, as we all know, is an excellent source for information on alcohol and management.

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Sales and service, I'm glad you have the incentive program at any rate, um and I think you you have.

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A good staff, I agree with you um and I agree with your closing frankly everything you said.

G

um And I know oakmont green, I actually know oakmont green is a very well run. Golf club.

G

Having said that, it's we do have a violation here and it's a it's a failure and part of the licensee.

G

uh Now there have been some in the past, but not the recent past.

G

2015 is generally outside the window that that we look at to determine whether there's been a repeat.

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Violation, so this falls outside of that all your past violations are of age. I guess you can say.

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um However, it's it's your so I consider to be your first violation for underage sales and um what we.

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Do almost always when there's a first violation is to impose a 300 fine, and uh so I'm going to make a.

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Motion, if it's okay with the commissioner at this time, unless anyone else wants to make any comments.

A

Motion would be in order and I'll make a motion that um the licensee is found. Coppable.

G

In this case, six, four five four and that a fine of 300 be assessed.

A

Washington's been properly made in as they're a second second.

A

Most has been properly made and seconded. Is there any excuse me any further discussion on the motion.

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Carrying none all those in favor signify by saying aye, aye aye opposed no. So word.

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Gentlemen, the commission finds you culpable and assesses a 300 fine, which you will have 30 days of.

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Upon official notice from our office to satisfy the phone, any questions.

E

No questions. Thank you. Thank you very much. We wish you the best and continued success.

I

Thank you for your time and we appreciate what you're doing for us and it's good to.

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Hear that we're running our business the way it should be run. Thank you for the comments that.

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You guys made that's what we strive. We strive to help the community and be a good citizen.

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One thing: if you can pour eight nine damn few ain't, getting it good.

A

So, thank you. Thank you, john good luck. You didn't have any damage from water.

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That's right: you've seen me in the city, didn't have any water damage in the last no no storms.

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Or anything we're good good. Unfortunately, we need. Oh, it's been wet, yeah yeah thanks.

D

Gentlemen, nice meeting you yeah, I think, take care everybody. Thank you. Keep your head down.

H

Okay, thank you. Let's get one, hey gentlemen: hey clay.

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Let's get one thing straight before we all leave yes,.

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Then, for may have suggested to you the incentive.

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But ben forgot the insanity from johnson originally.

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Just want to clarify that I'll ask marty when I see him well, I'm sure he'll tell you.

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Thank you see ya,.

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Okay at 10 45, it's only 25 or 26 up so.

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Yes, 10 35., we'll take a 10 minute recess, nope.

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Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we're back in session. Our next item on a schedule is bylaws changes.

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I think basically, all we have to do is approve the change in the date of the last.

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Mission is that correct, mr attorney? Yes, that's correct.

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I'm gonna make a motion to approve it. I I assume we need a motion to approve, go right ahead. I.

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Move that we approve that change that was just discussed in our bylaws. I second that.

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Motion, the aces is properly moved and, second is that we approved the bylaws changes present.

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Any further discussion hearing- none all those in favor signify is saying I pose no so orders.

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Okay, that's the.

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Scheduled agenda now we'll move into the business.

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First item is approval of the minutes from june the 14th.

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What did I see that said april.

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huh Make sure the the crowd is controlled outside? We don't want them to miss that last text. Okay,.

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uh Additions or corrections to the minutes as nailed, no, no, they stand approved as well.

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How did we get this on two schedules, however? The next item we have just voted on.

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Request request requests from keith watson of 7556 main street to have outdoor seating with pictures.

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Is that inspection yes main street sexual yeah right across from uw backs? They want two tops.

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Along the front of the building, there's they've got pictures of the tables that they they say.

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When or they want it all the time, if four tops four, they say win or is it for summer.

H

Just I mean I would think just be for summertime and.

H

There's no cover there's no just some seating on the outside sidewalk.

F

Rope, yes, so they're going to put a rope on the outside of the tables whoa and the town.

G

Is okay with that I'm waiting for a letter from the town um the town was on vacation last week.

H

He told me he said everybody all decision making were on vacation, so um he has put a request into.

H

A town for a letter, I would think so since they already approved locomotive, has it has it so.

G

I would think they'll be fine with it. There you go to decipher and then I'll look at it.

A

What a rope yeah like a barrier, a rope barrier, so people don't walk past. I understand, but.

H

Is that what locomotive does that would change like a very ching chinchy chain, and does it.

F

Block off half of the sidewalk, is it still like handicap accessible going through there.

F

Okay, I haven't yeah the sidewalk's, probably six, seven feet wide yeah, so this photograph.

H

Okay, yes, oh there's already tables and chairs, but he's not he's not used right. He was just has.

H

Him set up to show us a picture. He has not used yeah. This is just for demonstrations right, yep,.

A

Yep, oh okay, so we don't have drive up.

A

That'd, be the next thing somebody I have actually.

H

Some high pressure, someone called me about doing a drive-through beer, beer.

G

I'm okay with it as long as the towels, okay, with.

H

It yeah that's what I was pending. I was thinking pending the town's letter.

A

Apparently they took this photograph, what it had just rained and the tables are still dry so.

A

Yeah well, I walked out of sergios the other day.

A

Next to the building- and I was dry, but it was raining.

A

Apparently it was raining here when he took these. Yes, it doesn't.

A

At least it's a pretty straight line.

G

I've heard good things about the uh this restaurant.

G

I've heard that the food is pretty good.

G

Yeah they gotta have well, it could still be small because yeah probably two credit for me.

D

Four: five: eight five dublin road near brewer's house; okay, so we have no objections. Other than.

A

We need the authorization from the town, the town approves it: okay, okay,.

A

Notice from matt zuriaga esquire that oakland mills liquors llc is taking george r harrison off.

A

The license with attached assignment of membership interest, who is oakland mills, llc, oakland mills,.

H

Liquors down ellsberg on liberty, road way down the other end. That's before you go across the.

G

Just pretty good across the bridge, you go back to oakland yeah been there for years. Basically taking.

H

Their resin county carroll county resident off the licensing since they live in the state, so.

G

So they have two people on the license then, and he was the other person on the license.

G

Tell mr patel yeah: is he on, I know, he's he's somehow a known him. Is he on the license.

H

I believe so I I think so too, but you don't have to. I don't have my document in front of me. I'm.

H

But there are two they're, basically taking off the it should stay on it.

H

Should be the name because they've done they talk about 100 interest to so, and so oh yeah.

F

um Yes, patel the entirety of his right title and interest, and and.

F

What doesn't say that he's on the license? It just says that they're switching it over to him. I like.

F

George, so I guess we're okay with it as long as there's another human being yeah, there's.

H

There's, yes, there's probably is, but you would think that it would be put out in a letter. Well.

G

So all we require for someone getting off the license is a first of all. Let a resignation right.

H

Yes and that maryland resident be on the license.

H

And whatever membership percentages change all right now, why didn't you pronounce the first.

A

Name I passed, I don't know if it's required, I mean because the corporation could change. I mean yeah.

G

But doesn't have to, I don't think right, yeah, you can still own part of the corporation and.

G

Just say I I want my name off the license. I I would think right, yeah, you probably right. Yes,.

A

So you transfer the stock to you know you have to transfer, you can keep it as well as long as.

G

As long as the guy who's on the license owns ten percent right or five thousand dollars, um okay,.

F

You'll just double check and make sure there is another name jim. If you sell your ten percent.

A

How could you keep the shares, you've done, sold them.

D

Sorry, you couldn't.

A

Laughs until the two attorneys aren't paying attention to me.

G

It's a rabbit, hole [laughter] again, condensing the media.

A

Any objections not as long as there's someone else on the license.

A

Next item is a one day: liquor license request for an outdoor event by john cullum for mission.

A

Believe hold a fundraiser at 4585, babylon road, taneytown, maryland august. The 19th.

A

What mission belief they benefit the police department, police officers, kind.

F

Of explains bring awareness to and raise money for, a non-profit organization that helps veterans and first responders suffering through ps, ptsd.

F

Through therapeutic apiary activities, since we have too long forms ex-officers in here do.

A

Either one of you belong to that no yeah never heard of it just the first time. I've heard of it.

H

I actually, when I first saw it, I thought it would be like honeybees it is, it is a puree. So yes,.

F

I I googled it and and looked to see what they did, what I'm saying but fundraisers. I.

H

Don't know but then they say: law enforcement, oh not for the bees yeah. I thought right.

C

First responders and all training them to do beekeeping is part of the therapy.

G

You're hurting his head. I can doubt.

A

One of you yeah, one of us, will be hat.

H

There we have actually two events that day so.

H

Find your purpose down at sykesville fire department.

A

Okay, no, I don't think he's asked me what I said. We have two events that day and he asked me what the.

H

Second, one, oh so, where I got the address, I know where that's at on paper: where is it at actually.

A

Is it on a farm or something yeah? It look, it looks like a big farm. Yes,.

F

There's a drawing- and it looks like a lot of outbuildings and.

H

Are there any in buildings? So this is the initial request. Right. You've never had wait. Listen. We.

H

Never had this one before have you talked to these people about. Actually I've not talked to these.

H

People, but I will be there before they set up and never fill the figure out. I saw that so we don't.

G

Have any information about alcohol management? Yes, it should be the narrative in there. Okay,.

F

We have a facebook page.

D

It's actually mentioned.

H

H

To the left or right by the way, there's a road, isn't there a road it's on the road.

H

It might be these buildings here, yeah, it's gonna, be somewhere around here on my channel yeah.

H

No that's abandoned nope, not that building. That's on the construction.

H

Google go back to other buildings, you do have a facebook page and then it looks.

F

Like they do the beekeeping in the barn I'll tell you one thing: my daughter-in-law.

A

A

And that these the first year there's nothing. The second year was fine.

A

The third year, half one of the whole house died.

A

From last year, both of them died, yeah, there's a very there's a lot b flu going to.

A

Be problem he flew, I mean I don't know what they call it, but there's a lot of stuff going.

H

Around killing honeybees yeah there's a like a bacteria or something yeah flu, but I know it's.

H

Not flu, but you know what's your pleasure, ladies and gentlemen, if keith is going, I certainly have.

G

No objection, he'll he'll uh scope, it out and correct anything it's. He feels not in order.

F

Okay, do you have any objections? No there's a description of the event on on their facebook.

F

Page, okay, then the next one is a similar thing. One day, liquor license requests for.

A

An outdoor event by billy williams for find your purposes inc for a firehouse ferry at.

A

Sykesville freedom, fire department on august, the 19th sexual freedom, fire department. What.

H

Is that so that's on the carnival grounds, yes, on the corner ground behind the fire department.

G

um How do you pronounce f-a-I-r-e, keith, fair, okay, is that the british version.

C

Uneducated version shut up like old english, I said I would uneducate old people old. I pronounced.

D

English, traditionally again a new new event. I've been talking to a lady about it. um It should be.

H

Well prepared, but again I'm gonna check on before they set up and what's find your purpose. What was.

H

That question find your purpose. What type of organization is that it's? uh I think it's for.

F

Younger people, they they fall under the care. The community foundation of carroll, county.

F

And they are so they're using their uh number yep.

F

Inspires to elevate and empower individuals of all ages through mentorship.

G

H

Which is a good word, she tries to promote ellsberg businesses. She helps small businesses. Do.

H

Different things, what like entrepreneurship, nah, she's.

H

More like, like a social media, yeah, that's good influencing them in social media yeah.

G

And and host events that you know bring people together host events is this her event, she's.

H

One of persons involved in the yes she's, local, ellsberg, okay, so she's a eldersburg influencer. Yes,.

A

So they're only going to be served me or juan. If that's what the boxer checked. Yes,.

H

I know they're gonna be sir. I know I never looked at that. I'm reading it.

A

Says the package includes two tickets that can be redeemed for beer or wine selection.

A

Boxes check beer, wine and liquor.

A

Check yeah, I read that sentence right there, yeah.

H

I'll look into it.

A

Let me just read myself, [music] but the beer wine liquors checked on the phone yeah.

G

Billy williams, a man or woman, don't know man, a devin deals, a woman yeah. Yes, yes,.

F

I think billy also. Doesn't he also go by like billy live at times? He's like a local.

H

We know it through devon's deals, that's our facebook page. Does she sell stuff.

G

Like deals like here's a deal, you can get these adidas someone somewhat yes and then.

H

She also puts brings business, brings an event at someone's business host, some in someone's.

H

Business and she sits there and hosts it. This is a pretty big enterprise. According to this diagram.

G

They want to have like uh almost 60 vendors.

G

That sound, yes, like a minute miniature renee renaissance fest! That's what she's.

D

Yeah ryan, advanced fest festival, maybe that's why she spelled it with the e. Yes,.

C

It's like a village fate, that's right, routine, crumpets,.

G

So there's going to be a distillery there and I assume that.

G

Are they serving beverages for consumption? Yes, so.

H

If it listed the story, it hasn't distillery, it has a blue brothers ridge cider. It could be hard cider.

G

Which which the story is listed because she said what twin valley, distillery, okay,.

G

So that's more than beer and wine yeah.

G

Two tickets can be redeemed for beer or wine selections.

G

Maybe the tickets, don't include distilled, maybe no they pay for that yeah and I mean I think.

H

She's fine, um she said the licensure is true just before beer and wine, the the stories are.

H

Used in an off-site permits for the tastings, so the distillery is going to be doing tastings. Yes,.

G

And they're, using what permit the off-site permit they're off-site payment.

G

And and where did they get their offside permit or is that a system yep.

H

They can do so. Many off-site permits a year. Okay and and uh they're not carol, can distillery right.

H

No, we only have two in canada, one, that's not one of ours and the beer garden is where.

G

People go to take their drinks, wine, okay, that's what I'm gonna post.

H

We've we've talked: she wanted to do it a little bit bigger.

H

But this is going to be in the first event, I want to keep it closed to small beer garden.

H

But eventually she wants to make it for the whole whole event area. If she's, not the one.

F

Asking for the license now, because she her she, she does not have a non-profit billion billion.

F

Right, non-profit.

G

But to find your purposes under the um the umbrella right.

F

I looked that up yesterday when I saw the the business agenda.

F

Because I knew you would ask so I found out good. Thank you. Thank you.

H

And it disturbers are not selling drinks. She said.

F

Or they're just having tastings yeah, which makes no sense: okay, well, you'll, be there.

G

To make sure everything's straightened and narrow wow, I you'll be there for the setup. Yes,.

A

Jim had to dance at the last one he went to so I think you'll be.

A

There and participate in any games that they have.

F

So, just let me just I'll be ellie williams is the font, but then the the devon pirro is.

F

The authorized chairperson, so it doesn't matter that the chairperson is not part.

F

Of the non-profit, no okay, I'm just clarifying for my own information.

G

Although often the the chair is the one who applies on behalf of non-profit, but this is an.

G

Umbrella situation they're using yeah, so I don't think now, usually the name on the.

H

Name on that, the second name on that where it says chairperson, that's the person who is.

H

Going to be will be there the whole time. Okay, sometimes the person applying for it will not.

H

Be there the whole time, so we want to know who would be? Who should I go contact or who.

H

Should jim go contact, that's going to be there gotcha and devin's the one's going to be there.

H

Now, billy williams might be there, I don't, but I don't know who that person is.

H

Carroll county rapper.

C

So is it an okay.

G

Yes, uh I mean, I have no objection if keith is going to show up in the beginning and scope it out.

A

A

Two applications for outdoor events for a one-day license by mount airy main street association.

A

For a wine and cheese tasting on august 17th, 2023 and oktoberfest on september, 23rd 2023.

G

Area main street association- okay, this is ongoing event. They've done this in the past.

G

Right and but but is this where they close off the street or not? Yes, they do close offices from.

H

Basically, from the brewery with an old bank right to upper deck parking lot: okay, so yeah.

H

And then that whatever that railroad parking area, yeah yeah that last one didn't have came.

F

And attached, but you have that right: no, they don't have to pay okay, gotcha gotcha.

F

I always see it attached yeah a lot of people send it with, but some don't you.

G

Think it's that's persuasive. I think that's persuasive what to attached.

F

A

Another request attached to this, I should be, should be two should be one for.

H

The wine cheese tasting one for oktoberfest.

A

There's a letter here from superfuzz cafe and market: oh super fruit, yeah the.

H

um They want to be able to participate for their patrons to go freely with open containers. You.

H

Should be, we should be receiving basically letters from all the restaurants in that area. In that.

H

Footprint I want to allow people to come and go from their establishments with alcohol or or sell.

H

Alcohol from their established out upon a is that how it went last year we we approved the event and.

G

Then individual parties, your proximity, came in and if you notice that layer is going pretty similar.

H

From all of them, there's one from crying johnny's liquidity, ale works they've been over here.

H

She, when I last time I talked to her.

H

She's still waiting for a couple more, but you will have them all so at this time.

G

We're not considering the letters or are we I mean I I didn't realize they were.

H

In the packet yeah last time, I think the letters came after we approved the events.

G

And and uh and then we addressed each letter as it came, you know I mean either way you can.

H

Do it we can resubmit next, because we still have time next board meeting well. The next meeting is.

G

Pretty crowded dock it right right, but we you know yes well, there's different ones. They're.

A

Probably all here, but liquidity ale works is in both of them. Well, here is the upper deck.

A

A

Lorenzo wood fired cafe.

A

Superfoods in both of them.

H

Crazy, crazy, not crazy.

H

That's the only alcohol.

A

And johnny's, that's that sounds like all of them. Then.

A

These are the ones I just excuse me. Just read are for the oktoberfest and not all the same ones.

A

Or in the yellow yeah, so so I have the wine and cheese in front of me. Okay,.

G

And dave has the oktoberfests right? Is it the same footprint? It should be yes, okay,.

A

Yeah, it's the same yeah from the from the brewery through upper through upper deck.

A

We've got these letters they're dated june. The second.

H

Yes, I mean I from these establishments at least that one is upper decks due to.

A

The second- and these are july, 7th june 2nd june 2nd june 2nd hello june, 2nd for the oktoberfest.

A

So why wouldn't we there's one crying johnny is july. The 7th.

H

I mean, I think you, you probably can't approve them. I just it just was. I didn't realize they.

H

Were in the packet at the time, okay, when I talked to her, she was still sitting waiting for letters.

H

All the letters come in well, all these left correct, it's what I have here and- and this.

A

Letter all refers to the oktoberfest and they're all dated june, except one that's day july, 7th.

A

Right, so why could we not approve them or disapprove.

A

Because they're addresses carroll county government board of license. Commissioners.

A

So why can't we approve or disapprove? I think you can. I just usually in the.

H

Past we've done it separately, not, but I didn't realize they were in the packet.

H

To list them on here I mean, basically, you would have seen the one day, application and.

H

You were seeing these five listed on the on the business right and the application.

G

They're able to do with it.

A

What have that one we'll find it? Maybe it's in your lap.

C

After you're, not looking for it anymore, you'll find it.

G

Okay, so for the wine and cheese tasting in addition to the application of the.

G

Mount airy main street association. There are three separate requests: okay,.

G

And the requests are from superfoods liquidity, ale works.

G

And crying johnny's and there and they're all a form letter and they're all asking.

G

For permission for their customers to freely walk around with open containers.

G

In the footprint correct, okay and they've been, but all of them been instructed plastic cups.

H

From their when they leave their establishment, okay and you're probably will probably next.

H

Month, we'll probably see the other five other three places apply for.

J

A

We can't approve the event and also approve them in a separate motion, separate motion, yeah.

G

Yeah I mean yeah, I agree that makes sense. Okay, I just see that stuff. I was going to write down all.

F

Of the ones, oh good, now, if you're not finished with it, no no go ahead. Who's, the third one on.

F

That one I've wrote down super foods and crying dramas. I thought he said one more thing: liquidity.

F

At work, what it is thank you so this one has the wood-fired cafe: that's not on cheese and wine.

H

Also, vfw liquidity at work and also upper deck and the vfw yeah okay,.

G

So I need a motion to approve the.

A

When it starts wine and cheese tasting it's first in august and and the attached.

J

Requests are the licensees right, which is superfoods, grind, johnny's and liquidity.

G

Okay, well, I will make a motion to approve the request of mount airy main street association.

G

For the uh one day, liquor license event.

G

On for a wine and cheese tasting on august, 17 2023, along with the requests of the.

G

Of three licensees, which are super superfoods, ryan, johnny's, brian johnny's, and liquidity.

F

Liquidity ale they're allowed to participate their customers can.

G

Walk the footprint that's approved with open containers. Second, that motion this has been.

A

Properly baited seconded that we approved the application for the cheese testing and so.

A

Forth any further discussion on the motion very non-all is in favor signify is saying aye. No, so.

G

Here's this free, if you make this motion tina, go ahead, you do it! So I'm going to make a motion to.

F

Approve the october fest for the mount airy main street association one day, liquor license for.

F

September 23rd 2023 and to include permission for the attached licensees to go free for the event.

F

For their customers to go freely with open containers, and that is liquidity, air works.

F

The upper deck sports bar and grill cw4 vfw uh lorenzo wood, fired cafe, superfood, cafe and market.

G

And crying johnny's, I'm sorry they're at the end.

G

Motion this has been made in properly, second, that we approve the application and individual business.

A

Owners to participate in mount mary's, oktober festival in september 23rd, all those in favor.

A

If there is no further discussion, all those in favor signify the saying aye suppose no so order.

A

Request from robert graves of the united.

A

Permission to have beer at an outside event for their 100th year celebration.

C

It's just an email, so it's not a one day application. No, they have. They have a beer license.

H

But just inside their property, oh okay, inside the building, they would do outside like a beer garden.

G

Thing right- um and this is, I know- we've done this in the past and I need to talk to them too.

H

Would you be willing to approve outdoor usage? Are there like? We do for the vfws and american legions.

H

If they make a for year-round anytime, they want to do instead of having to send a requests. Each time.

G

What exactly is the organization on [ __, ] club road? I know but united kingdom hunters.

H

United club, this is a social return organization, or are they actually out killing animals? It used.

D

To it was originally set up to be a raccoon hunter's association, but now it's mainly.

D

Country sports and I do a lot of training down there for like hunter safety and shooting, and I.

D

Have uh trap shoots, I don't have like equestrian stuff there too. No, no! No purely like you used.

A

To have good dancers sure, so they beer and wine, or beer wine and liquor yeah beer. Yes,.

F

Just beer yeah! So that's what they're asking for here just beer, but I'm asking what what is their.

G

License they just have a beer, they have a beer license, so they're asking for just beer outside.

H

Are they just beer or they beer wine.

H

We need to bring food, we need to bring, I think, they're beer.

C

Wine, because north carol run gun, I think, is beer yeah, they're beer, wine.

H

um But I was just thinking we've approved in the past clubs, an outside area and we approved.

H

That so we're going to keep on doing each so just expand the footprint of the license. I.

H

Just and I but have not talked to them about it, but just so they have done this in the past. Yes,.

G

And they usually have outdoor bands, sometimes.

H

Yes, I know it would be yeah, it would be a drawing and everything I just okay.

G

G

So this is how we have expanded a footprint in the past like going to a parking lot or.

G

Something just by a verbal request. At the uh yeah I mean like harney, american legion.

H

um More technically tony town, but they have a outside pavilion that they use. Occasionally we.

H

Have proved you guys have proved that in the past that they get you year round. Oh now, I'm.

G

Not talking about that I'm talking about this is this is just a one day, one one-time event.

H

But I'm just thinking and be nicer to approve down the road and I agree with you, but I'm just I'm.

G

Just sorry asking a question about the the process so and when we expand the footprint of a licensed.

G

Establishment into like the parking lot or to outside we in the past, we have done that by simply.

G

Having them make a request by email and discussing it at the business meeting rather than having.

G

Diagrams and things like that, yeah they would do they would do a drawing of what the location.

H

They're going to have it at which we don't have, no, I don't think it's going to email. I didn't. I.

C

Haven't seen this, he hasn't sent a drawing yet, but we we requested from all the clubs that they send.

C

Us a drawing so that they could get that blanket approval, and only one or two of them responded.

G

I've been in for a one-day license; they have to give us a, I mean I mean not for monday lesson or.

C

One day, event yeah: we have to have a drawing, but we don't have a drawing in this case, but.

G

But they're asking to ask us to agree to expand the footprint of the license only for this one.

F

Day yeah only for this one day, yeah I understand, but we don't know it could be 10 acres right. We.

H

Don't they need to submit a they need to submit it? That's my question. The map. We need a map to tell.

H

You where they went okay well, I have no problem with that as long as they give us a map to keep.

G

Getting ready, we know what date this is going to occur. I was gonna, say the date's not on the agenda.

J

As well, saturday august 12th.

A

A

40 years since I was in here- and I can't picture what the heck it even looks like it's, if you drive.

H

Down you, you drive down to [ __ ] club and you turn on the the property. You go past a house.

H

And then there's a small little bridge, it's like in a valley and then there's a clubhouse.

H

On the right parking's on the right and then behind, it is a big where they do trap, shooting.

H

Area behind it, when they do these outside events, they don't do trap shooting they have that area. So.

H

It's a natural buffers for the woods you, you know you had to walk up a hill to get out of the place.

H

Yeah, so I would think in the essence of time and so forth, as if, if you just call in.

A

And get them to give you a drawing. And if it's approved by use god. Because I can't see.

A

Hell or back there he drive past that road and not know where to get there.

A

Yeah and they don't trap shoot when they're, um okay.

H

I don't think they captured that often either like some places. We.

H

Had that yeah, you see, I've been there for years.

A

Yeah there you go so that little building off to the side. That looks like that. You.

F

Said, that's that's their clubhouse or hey. I bet it was yeah because I don't have that pavilion.

J

Overhang right in front of the event yeah, because there's a residential house at the.

H

Entrance and then you go back to lane and there's a bridge, you can't caught the crossover and then.

H

Is the secluded back there yeah yeah? It's definitely.

F

Yeah there's no the membership club, yes, but they do um open for dances and bands.

D

They have like dances like heavy friday nights. Don't the key, because when I was.

D

Down there, they gave me a flyer, so it's his pretty regular. They have events there.

H

I can't figure why they can't get up here.

H

Why can't they get up here? One liquor, I don't think they got electric, I don't think they.

C

Asked for it, I don't think they got a liquor license. I don't have liquor. I know I just don't.

H

Know why there's something reason they can't get it, and I can't remember because we've had.

H

This disc I've had this discussion before, don't have a kitchen. No, they have a kitchen.

H

I think I think they don't want it. Actually, I think that's.

H

A little too crazy! This goes back to the the old days and them old guys. You know, approve the.

A

Issued and stuff like that, they probably didn't want, but we think right in our bottles. We think.

G

That yeah, the liquor was in their back pocket in a flask. I think they're, the oldest licensed.

H

To continuous license establishment, we have in carroll county, that's what mr graves says.

G

How old is it 100 years old? I mean the license. We don't license. Canada go back.

A

We can't we, I don't think we don't have to forward if I'll go about that.

H

Back that far, it was beyond the history of the establishment, so when they got there yesterday.

G

I don't think there was liquor license because I thought.

A

I can tell you when the when the liquor license were issued in carroll county.

A

And- and this is back then- and this is in the 60s when you applied- you had to pay taxes.

A

From fifth one on the property, the building had to be taxes paid on fifty thousand dollars.

A

In order to get a liquor license, so the building had to you had that much in tax revenue and to.

A

Have that much in tax revenue and blah blah this and blah blah, and this never changed.

A

I mean well that's what we've been told by one in licensee, there they're the oldest active liquor.

H

License I'm talking about liquor now yeah yeah well license I mean alcohol license 1949 a beer.

F

License transferred into their name at the old pit beer license: yeah, okay, 49 active beer, that's funny.

A

Because there was only a dave was on the board: no hell. No, there was only a handful of.

A

A full license that were were issued because not that many.

A

Qualified now this is back then what would 50 000 be? Then, today, half million yeah.

H

Okay, get laptop down, so we can so we have no objections to that. Right, no object.

G

As as long as they send keith a yeah, he can monitor joe. Do you have anything else.

A

You got one other item before we go keith you got anything. I do not have anything so. Okay,.

A

I've talked in the past, and, and some of you agree with me.

A

That and we've discussed it and keith and I've discussed it several times.

A

That, in order to have a license, the law now says that one person has to be alcohol trained.

A

I think there should be somebody on the premises when it's open for alcohol sales.

A

To have a person who is certified to be trained and george, let me defer to you and.

A

Tell us what we have here and what your research should. Well, I handed out packets.

G

To uh the commissioners and to keith and he's going to make a copy for our attorney. Oh thank you.

G

um These are just copies of this state statute. The first page is the state statute, which.

G

Governs licensee conduct regarding alcohol awareness program.

G

And unless a jurisdiction, a county, has a specific uh section in their law different than this, every.

G

County will default to this, and the state law says that a holder of any alcoholic beverage.

G

License or employee designated by the holder shall complete training and improve alcohol.

G

Awareness programs so carol kenny defaults to the state law on that issue, whether our licensees.

G

Need alcohol management training, and so our licensees only need to have somebody.

G

Either the licensee is trained or someone that designate is trained.

G

It's a it's bare bones. In the past, the chairman has brought up and others have brought up, that it.

G

Might be a better policy uh for public safety to have someone on the premises of an establishment.

G

That's selling alcoholic beverages to have them alcohol management trained on the premise at all.

G

Times and um I looked at other jurisdictions and I found I think, 10 other counties that do require.

G

Presence of someone who is alcohol management trained at the licensees premises at all times,.

G

At least one either the licensee or designated employee or some counties require a designated.

G

Supervisory employee, so the supervisor in some counties require more than that. Some counties.

G

Allow an absence for a family emergency of two hours, but that absence has to be documented.

G

So in those counties the license the license, establishment has to have someone on premises.

G

Who was trained, but they can be absent for two hours due to certain emergencies, but it has.

G

To be documented and in other counties, they have penalties for violating those counties, uh statutes.

G

So we have discussed going to our delegation in the past and asking them maybe to uh request.

G

A statute that we approve of in that regard, having or requiring our licensees to have.

G

Someone on premises who is trained at all times, and these are various counties.

G

There are different approaches and it's a little packet of the alcoholic beverage code.

G

And a lot of counties just have just copied each other there's several counties that.

G

Just have the exact same language in their state, alcoholic beverage section.

G

And some have more detailed requirements and I think they all have penalties for non-compliance.

G

So I just passed that out for the commission to read and see what other counties are doing.

A

A

The state law now just requires somebody, as you just pointed out, and so on so forth, to have it well.

A

Let's use the applicant we had in here this morning. They have.

A

I think he said four or five other people beside the manager. Well, the manager was here.

A

The establishment is open and they probably got. I don't know 100 people there.

A

Somebody should be on duty who is certified in alcohol awareness.

A

Questions this question, as as I asked keith.

A

A bartender asked me that she was presented with a phone id.

A

And she didn't accept it well that phone id as I understand it, is okay for tsa. If.

A

You want to fly somewhere, but it's not acceptable as identification for alcohol.

A

So you said: correct yeah, so.

A

A point being [music] if you're not trained in alcohol awareness and so.

A

On so forth, you should not be serving alcohol and there's too many I'm sure.

A

With the training that that those two have been doing, there's a lot more certified now than it was.

A

In the past, and since we say we carroll county, has their own approved training program now.

A

We can't really use the excuse that it's not convenient to go somewhere else to get the.

A

Training where the cost is prohibited, or they can't find one somewhere else when we have it.

A

Here- and I think it's too many- you know too many situations come in here and you've all heard me.

A

Talk, I just can't believe somebody will look at a vertical license and go ahead and serve.

A

And you can you can train them and train them and train them, but somebody should be trained.

A

For many of the pitfalls that are presented by serving alcohol, not only serving it yourself.

A

Or the person there, but for things to look for if somebody comes in there and.

A

And I hate to say it, but we just created another problem. In my opinion on july, the first.

A

The two don't mix.

A

So I thought we need to discuss it and present.

A

Legislation to present to our delegation, to see and to the commissioners upstairs.

A

Just like we did with the previous two things that went into effect july, 1st.

A

The question was this: keith asked the question: if you remember at.

A

The seminar and only one person popped up and they don't even have a license yet so.

A

Am I correct? No, I actually found out who that was. They do have a license in okay.

A

Because we, I thought we thought might be the. I was wrong for manchester, but anyway.

G

Now there is, I did add one thing in here in this packet that I thought was interesting.

G

Dorchester county has a law as a section in their alcoholic beverage law for the state.

G

And alcohol awareness program certificate of completion held by an employee or an.

G

Employee's employer may not be used at more than one license: establishment.

F

But that was interesting, so you can't work at more than one place well. Well, you can't.

G

You can't have one person certified and then have three stores under that one person's certification.

G

uh And I kind of then we have a recent thing with.

G

A a catering hall who was going to use a license outside of the county.

H

Yeah martin's was using their state got approved to use their state catering relations to serve.

H

Stay open in westminster, so this is kind of analogous this is, but this is regarding to alcohol.

G

Management training- I just I don't want to be the opposite and say what what tina was saying. If I.

H

Got certified and I got three different bartending jobs. I have to get certified three different times.

H

That's how I read it too, like tina right and I'm held by an employee, he may not be used what he.

A

Means is okay. You can have three license now: okay, right that guy in hampstead was just in here, yeah.

H

Antonio antonio, no eric oh eric, if he's certified okay at whatever his liquor, store's name, he can't.

A

Use that certificate he can't be this person, that's certified on camp tina or whatever it is.

G

Right: okay, yeah someone else yeah somebody, someone else has to be certified for that establishment. So.

G

Each establishment right shooting a certified person you can have one well he's had to be. He.

H

Has to be two places at once, because if we change the rule, the law right now, he can be.

H

Because there's no restrictions on that eric can be right now, as a law state laws. Well he's.

C

Not the licensee, but he but he works there. There's an example, because you know right.

H

But he works there, so yeah he could write as of right now. He can do that if we do state change.

H

Or state law you're right, it should be he he had to set someone separate because the whole.

G

Purpose of this is to have someone on premises. If there's a question by another employee, employee.

G

Saying I'm not sure if I can accept this or I can do this at least there's someone on.

G

Premises, they can turn to and get an answer who theoretically has been trained and hopefully by.

G

You guys and a couple questions I had a couple of thoughts I have is, I know a lot of them say.

H

Supervisory, but we have some liquor stores that have three employees only one working at a time.

H

Then technically not they're, not a supervisor, just they just work four hours or they work. One shift.

H

So we would have to have some kind. I I personally think we should need some kind of.

H

If they're working by themselves, they are considered, are they concerned they're the.

G

Supervisor, okay, I guess every store needs a supervisor right yeah I mean that would be.

H

You know the thought, that's only that's the only thing I because j g's liquors has three employees.

H

Yeah yeah right and they got all three trained, but technically I mean if you're working by yourself. I.

H

Guess you are a supervisor supervising yourself, the boy. You know. That's one thing: the board has.

H

To determine is um interesting yeah. Maybe we all look into that when we send you two out to.

A

These events, or it's like who's supervising you and another thing, is when our joe's not going.

H

To be happy with this is we need to add our local law rules and regulations to this also.

H

I believe we should have something saying that they, the certificate, should be posted.

G

Yeah, the uh the alcohol management training certificate yeah, and I I like that idea because.

G

It helps you yeah, so it would be easier and then we could get into with our local law. We could.

H

Get him to, can it be gone? Can they be missing two hours yeah at some counties deal with that.

G

Right and that's and some counties, don't I think, with our county. I think we're small enough that.

H

If I get there and no one's there, I can come back in 50. I can come. You know, where's.

H

The person who's supposed to be here and who's the alcohol management- where is he at.

H

They went to lunch all right I'll, be back in 15 20 minutes from lunch, we're small enough.

H

That we can do that kind of stuff. I don't think we need to have a time period set.

H

Or- and I'm we're both smart enough to say he got called away his wife's had an accident that makes.

H

Sense yeah so, for instance, there's there are several counties that do this. This is a typical.

G

Statute and several candies, this is caroline county. The individual certified by an approved.

G

Alcohol awareness program may be absent from the licensed premises for an emergency.

G

If the absence lasts for not more than two hours and the board shall require the license holder to.

G

Keep a log book on the license premises that documents each temporary absence. Now. That's.

G

I don't think that's one of the more um I want to say onerous, we're burdensome of these laws that.

G

I've I saw I'm at the I I understand why they do that. It's a big account. I just don't think we need.

H

To do that, I think caroline county is is kind of I mean, but I think both jim and I are smart enough.

H

To say yeah: if it's, why is he missing? Do you run out to get lunch or did his wife have an accident.

H

That's we, we understand, that's emerging, we don't. I just think we're asking them to do a lot of.

H

Keeping track of stuff- and I I don't mind, relying on your discretion either one I think I I don't.

H

Think we need that wording in ours. Okay, but again boy, that's my opinion. um Jim! You have any thoughts.

D

We already we already recommend they have that shift change over book, so.

D

If you mandate you've got to make a note of it, they can just write it in that ship book.

H

The bar book- yes, we they could do it that way too. um Okay, but we can't be as stringent as to.

F

Say if you're serving you must be certified, we can actually that's what, when you started in the.

F

Beginning, that's kind of what that was. I heard the chairman has has proposed in the past and.

G

I didn't find any other county doing that anybody else doing that because say a small patrick says.

A

50 of them have to be hmm frederick county says so. Yes, we're talking about that. uh The um at the.

G

Seminar, uh a liquor board member for frederick county told us that when this discussion came up.

G

That in their county, 50 percent of those on premise have to be like have to have.

G

To have certification for alcohol management training, but in the carroll county carol and.

G

The frederick county code in here that that ratio is not there, so I'm guessing it's in.

G

Maybe here uh that's just that's or I don't know and I believe tava county is 100 percent.

F

Yeah see, I don't know why you would let someone serve alcohol without being trained, since it's.

F

So accessible now, but that's what I was wondering: can we 18 year olds can do it now yeah, but they.

F

Can also take an alcohol management class yeah, but I'm just saying 18 year olds can take it to.

A

The table now and take it yeah serve it to a table, but I don't think they cannot open it right. Yeah.

G

Yeah and and only a bartender can actually make a drink at 21. right, but they can card the person at.

F

The table too yeah right so I mean I mean a waiter. Waitress can basically do a whole transaction.

F

Right, regardless of age, I think they still should have they just pop out in the computer. That comes.

H

Up to bar, they pick it up at the bar, they pick up the bar and they serve it, and then they charge.

H

They write, they pay it bill at the end of the night. um I just think you can have a if we do.

H

100, I think that's a lot I think. um But again I rely on what the board decides too and and I'll.

H

I just think if you don't, I wouldn't think this would create a problem or.

A

I'm gonna say 85 to 90 percent of the licensees.

A

A couple not a couple, I don't have any liquor stores we've got but to hear you know 39 here.

A

From sunday's wine liquors, you know, he's only got three employees blah blah blah well,.

A

You know there might be a couple others with a similar story, but most of the restrooms.

A

Has got you know right now, who's in here not too long ago, with the thing and the.

A

The person that was certified was the cook was little cooking right, yeah. That was.

F

Yeah, you know, I mean yeah.

H

Small, your smaller liquor stores might have a hard time with it, especially the.

H

One employee only works four hours a week or something I think if we do 100.

H

um But- and they won't have to they're gonna have to you know, I would necessarily be in.

A

Favor of 100- I I just think somebody ought to be there correct. I, I urban, alcohol or.

A

Selling alcohol somebody ought to be certified by that place is open.

A

And if they work four-hour shifts tough get both of the guys working. The four-hour shift.

A

Certified well again like a county line. It was the cook, so he wasn't serving, but he was there. Okay.

F

What so, so, I guess what that's a perfect example, the poor lady, who had no training.

A

Whatsoever and not even wait, waitressing and so on and so forth. Here's a guy supposed to.

A

Know about the the laws and so forth, he's in the kitchen. He don't even know who's out there.

A

Look, I I just think it. Somebody should be certified. That's open when they're.

A

When they're open for alcohol sales- and I agree especially now that it's easier carroll county.

G

Has made it easier uh for that to happen? There was a time where recently, where it was kind.

G

Of difficult for licensees to get everyone that they wanted to have certified certified.

G

Now we have an excellent program, that's readily available to anyone who wants to take advantage.

H

Of it, since, since we started in january, we've had probably 12 classes that we've done 180.

G

Yeah, that's, you know now a success. A small amount has been outside the county.

H

But there people that go outside the county get certified, also yeah.

A

So what do we do from here put together something or study these things and come.

A

Back because if we want this introduced what they always say, the commissioners wanted in august.

A

Well, they're not going to get it in august, but asap yes, if that's what we want to do.

A

G

Well, but there's so many choices here, tim doesn't know what our choices are.

A

I just looked caroline county is here right now, but as george as you pointed out, a lot of these.

A

Counties pretty much say the same thing with one or two specific items covered in the counties, but.

A

It's pretty much a it's very simple. You know it's only three sentences. Basically, so I just.

G

You know as we're just tossing ideas around anne arundel county. I looked at that. I thought okay.

G

The license holder or an individual designated by the license holder, who is employed in a.

G

Supervisory capacity shall be certified and present at all times and then first offense 100.

G

Subsequent 500., so that's that's pretty bare bones, but that's requiring a supervisor right, which I.

G

Think is kind of the reason the supervisors are supposed to be. Supervising employees.

G

So if you have a supervisor and an establishment and their jurisdiction is, is the behavior of the.

G

Employees, they really should be trained to answer employees questions. So I think that's the purpose.

G

Of anne arundel county's law again like he said, though, like like it's on these supervisors or the.

F

Owners then, if they're not there, then there's no supervisor yeah but then but keith wouldn't.

G

Wouldn't violate them if, if, uh if there's a, but they should still reach alcohol management,.

H

Trained they still yeah, you know, but that's the board. If the board can determines saying.

H

If the board tells me if they're by themselves, they're considered supervisor gotcha, I usually.

D

Say if I go out, let's say who's got the key. Something goes wrong. Who's got the key to lock.

D

The establishments up that to be the supervisor, because they've got the power to lock and unlock.

H

But you when, when you get to liquor, store, there's one person staying there, the other.

H

Person in charge- and I look at it as and like howard county- has- has blended some of these other.

G

What the other counties are doing you know they're saying that the license holder.

G

Is certified or a supervisor is certified and if either one of those people are absent.

G

From the premises for more than two hours and there's a log book that has to be entered.

A

uh Montgomery montgomery is pretty simple license, holder or an individual.

A

Designated by the license holder, who is employed and a supervisor capacity, shall.

A

Be one certified by an approved alcohol awareness program and two.

A

Present on the license premises during the hours in which alcoholic beverages may be sold.

G

Yeah- and that is a license holder who violates this action- is subject to a first defense, a.

A

Hundred dollars and there after 500., that's it yeah and that's pretty similar to. In fact it.

G

Might be exactly the same as anne arundel county, this there's several counties that have that same.

A

Thing but this is just doesn't say anything about any absences or anything like that. Yeah.

G

So so some counties want to put it into the law about an absence and others don't. I think.

H

We can use our discretion as inspectors to say, there's a reason, he's a good reason he's not there.

H

And if we think it's about, then you know yeah well, I agree: you're you're, basically, enforcement.

G

And uh discretion that always pops up for you guys so so let me ask you this, though, because I put.

F

That two hour in so say you show up and they're. Like. Oh sorry, he's not here right now you go back.

F

Four hours later, no one is still there. You could actually say in an eight-hour period or they're at.

F

An emergency- and you know so then you're kind of skirting the rules by not having somebody.

F

There right, I would just think, just if you don't, if you don't, have the two hour limit and we get.

H

There and we make a check and oh they went here. He went out to lunch. Okay right all right, we'll.

H

Be back in half an hour, he should be back from half an hour if he's not back in half an hour.

H

Then it's a violation yeah and I kind of like that, because it's simpler, there's no log book, there's.

G

No looking at the clock, the two-hour thing, yeah and you're, leading it up to the inspectors to to.

G

Evaluate the situation, but if we, if he says wife, was in a car crash, oh yeah, it's not going to be.

F

Two hours that could be two hours, you know yeah and I think that's the discretion. We you giving.

H

Us as as inspectors to say, that's a good excuse again you guys, if, if we bring it in you guys.

H

Get fined on you know, and they can explain better when they're sitting here and if I mean we had an.

H

Indian restaurant that couldn't put up us up their license because there was no manager on duty right.

G

Well, I I can't agree with the chairman that um is montgomery county you're. Looking at yeah.

A

I just said that goes: it's got no, if ands or buts yeah, and that's it. It's also other counties use.

G

The exact same work, yeah yeah, so it's uh I just happened to turn to that and read.

A

The thing that's why I said it plus the fact I used montgomery county montgomery about a big.

A

Time, operations in montgomery county, so here's what they do for two hours: yeah and that's where.

A

Mr trone is from who has all the liquor stores all over there. Wine store all over the country.

A

So we can say to some people: hey, I don't care's what montgomery county done and.

A

They got to pass the problem over there correct yeah, I mean it's we're small county size, wise.

H

If we need to get back and check on some place a second time in the afternoon or.

H

You know we can do that, it's not good, it's they say, it'll be back an hour. We come back in an.

H

Hour you know, I would think that if anybody had any problem with it, it would be this.

A

And they got it there, which one's that wooster, oh yeah, I know how many part-time people they.

A

Got down there, you know for six months, four months: whatever it is, they got it there.

A

Anyway, that's my consents and mr dixon, you have queer, make any comments. Nope.

H

And then and then once mr dixon finalize it, you know, I think we should also look into.

H

Having it in our red book and a rule about posting the certifications.

H

um You know what do I do that? What we can do that yeah in our in our in the red book yeah.

H

Joe I'm going to evolve from joe, but yeah we're gonna have to and we're putting you just.

C

The spinal skin.

G

No, we just we don't remember enough processes, at least judging from this morning. We do our.

H

Amendment well, we can do the bylaws the same time. We do the book too. We're gonna. Add it to the book.

F

Yeah, no, I said jose. I know the consensus is that we will ask mr dixon to.

A

Draw up something for the next meeting based on montgomery county.

G

I would, I would say so, but there are several counties that have the exact same thing and.

A

You may have, when you peruse all these, if you find so many things better, tell us something.

G

In there well, okay, let us know it really is: we'll have to have a public hearing right.

G

It's actually the simplest language is montgomery. County yeah.

H

You have to have a public hearing, we got to go to the commissioners, they have to go.

H

To the state delegation and then because then it gets approved and then july july, 1st 2024.

G

Okay, we've been talking about it for years.

J

Wow, I don't think so, since I've been here yeah chairman's chairman's been talking.

H

About it now, so I gave you we have a reason why now, since we're doing the training week,.

H

Yeah exactly yeah, because that was always yeah. Well, we can't get them trained. We couldn't get in.

A

This they're not having a class for six months, but how about this blah blah all right? Anything else.

A

All right before we make a major decision, there's nothing else to be brought before this less body.

A

We are adjourned until.