Carroll County, MD Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission, 19 Sep 2023

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From YouTube: Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission September 19, 2023-Recorded

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A

Good morning I will call the planning and zoning commission meeting to order.

A

Today is september 19 2023. I'd like to welcome everyone today.

A

Madam clerk, may we start by establishing a quorum good morning.

B

I'm here, mr here here, mr kane here, mr smith, here mr robinson here, mr swisson here, commissioner.

C

Gordon here secretary mine here, madam chair, please let the record reflect the seven members.

D

Are present and we do have a quorum? Thank you. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance.

A

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america.

A

Under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

A

Mr secretary excuse me: are there any changes to the agenda that was sent to us? No, there are not.

A

Okay, thank you. Do I hear a motion for the approval of the agenda? A motion to approve.

E

The agenda, a second okay, there's, a motion in a second all in favor signify by saying.

A

Aye please aye aye. Okay, the agenda is approved.

A

um Has everyone had a chance well with that we'll move.

A

For the approval of [music] um the minutes from august.

A

15., thank you. Do I. Has everyone had a chance to review them.

A

Instead of two, are there any edits or changes proposed for these minutes? No.

F

They're not okay. Thank you, if not I'd, be happy to accept emotion in a second.

A

For approval a move, we proved the minutes, a second okay. We have a motion and a second novel in favor.

A

And ashley approved, thank you. We will vote into item six. um I do not have any reports.

A

Commissioner, I do not have anything, but thank you. Anybody else have anything. No, no.

A

Okay, all right number, seven, administrative reports. Yes, good morning all so I have a couple of items.

F

To to go over first, you should have before you uh the draft copy of the transportation master.

F

Plan, so we will not be going over that today we're just providing you with a copy to review.

F

At our next scheduled meeting october 17th, we will begin the process of going through.

F

Reviewing that with you all and this most of everything that you see in here, should.

F

Look familiar because over the past year, or so as we've been working through this, everything should.

F

Look familiar, but we will begin the process on october 17th to review that with you all.

F

um Wanted to let you all know about some reorganization changes here. So, as you know,.

F

um Back about three months or so ago, linda eisenberg left the county as she was director.

F

Of the planning department at the time the county commissioners made me acting director.

F

The commissioners about two weeks ago decided to recombine the two departments, so those of.

F

You who may remember back about eight or nine years ago, we used to be one department, so the.

F

Department of planning and the department of land and resource management was all one department.

F

It was the department of land use, planning and development, so about eight or nine years ago. The.

F

Planning department was separated out by the then board of county commissioners. They have decided.

F

To recombine the department- and we are now known as the department of planning and land management.

F

So back eight or nine years ago our department had both a director and.

F

A deputy director, so we were beginning the process of going out and searching.

F

For a deputy director to assist myself in the further administration of the new department.

F

um Also in conjunction with that, our administrative assistant, who serves as.

F

The clerk who denise has been sitting in for we have found someone and she will be starting.

F

On september 28th, so next, uh our next regular meeting denise will still serve as clerk while.

F

Our new employee will will observe and get up to speed, but then the following meeting our new.

F

Employee will will take over those duties, so any questions about the reorganization so on I don't.

F

Think it'll affect the day-to-day operation of of your board, but I just wanted to make you aware.

A

Thank you and congratulations. Congratulations! So um one of the things that we have been.

F

Doing a little bit differently, the past couple meetings has been distribution of the project.

F

Plans electronically and I wanted to open that up for discussion with you all. It is certainly.

F

Much easier from our perspective to share those digitally, rather than producing the paper copies.

F

The past couple meetings we've been doing both so as not to have to abrupt a transition, but.

F

I wanted to throw that out for discussion as to whether you would be amenable to us going.

F

Fully digital and sharing those with you all digitally, rather than producing the paper copies.

A

I like it electronically, but um what about the rest? No electronically he's fine with me.

E

Fine with me yeah, I have no issues with it. Yeah fine with electronic as well, gentlemen,.

B

Paper [laughter].

G

Richard and I'll get together and try to work it out.

F

So uh I mean certainly if there are certain projects that are I'll, say, contentious or or.

F

Or need like more in-depth review? If you let us know, we can make paper copies available for.

F

You then, on a case-by-case basis, but if it's all right with with you all, we will proceed.

F

With simply providing electronic copies, and please let us know if there is a need for.

F

For some paper copies as we, we move forward. Okay, thanks. Thank you very good. Thank you.

F

Speaking to schedule, then, for future meetings. Our next regularly scheduled meeting is october, 4th.

F

Which would be a night meeting? We do not have any agenda items that are pressing, so our plan is to.

F

Cancel that meeting so no meeting on october 4th the night of october 4th. So then we will have a.

F

Regularly scheduled meeting on october 17th, please note for yourselves that I think we will have a.

F

Number of items for that agenda, so that will be a longer agenda than say, for instance, today.

F

As I mentioned, we will begin the process of discussing the transportation master plan and.

F

We anticipate that that will take two or three meetings to to get through, so we would like to.

F

Get this resolved and and finished up, so we have a scheduled november 1st night meeting.

F

And we would like to hold that in person rather than virtually because virtual is, is difficult to.

F

Hold discussions and we, it is a working meeting to discuss the transportation master plan and.

F

We also, maybe if we have time, maybe getting into other topics such as county proposed county code.

F

Changes related to adult use, marijuana, and so on so um november. 1St is a night meeting and we'll.

F

Have that in person and then just for your notes, the next meeting will be november 14th, which is.

F

Earlier in the month than normal because of thanksgiving, so we will reflect all of these.

F

Dates and so on in the meeting minutes, but just wanted you all to be aware. So the news usually the.

E

In-Person meetings are on tuesdays november. 1St is a wednesday, but that will still be in person.

E

On a wednesday: yes, yes, 9 a.m; uh no it'll be an evening meeting. Oh, oh, I'm, sorry november 1st.

F

Will be a night meeting, but it will be in person rather than virtual, so 6 p.m. November. 1St, yes done.

F

Yes and all of those dates will and all the information will be conveyed in the meeting.

F

Minutes so you'll have it okay, a record there great thank you right and I believe.

F

That's all I've got for today. Okay, all right! Thank you. Any extensions uh extensions. Yes,.

H

Good morning, good morning, do you have two extensions uh this month, the first.

H

One is hudson forest estates. Four, this is a subdivision plan. It's p12006.. This is the.

H

Sixth extension for this project, it is 17 lots of subdivision located in commissioner district four.

H

And the second one is a site plan carol station professional office park. It's.

H

S 150014 and it's the fourth extension for this project and that's in commissioner district five.

A

Thank you, you're welcome. Thank you.

I

Good morning good morning, so just to update you guys on last most bza cases that I presented.

I

Those two were approved, and that was case six, four, five, five nk-6465 and the cases I had for.

I

This month were 6469. This request is for a conditional use for a contract contractors.

I

Equipment, storage yard and multiple variances on a tiny ton, property off of croswell road.

I

Planning staff found this request for a conditional use in multiple variants.

I

Experiences is consistent with the 2014 carroll county master plan, as amended in 2019, and would.

I

Have no adverse effects on current use of the property and surrounding areas? The next case.

I

Was 6470? This request is for conditional use to manufacture wine on an existing barn within the.

I

Property within the applicant's property and multiple variances on a wood bond property.

I

Off of gillis, mill, road or gillis, road, sorry and planning staff finds this request for conditional.

I

Use and multiple variances is consistent with the 24 2014 carroll county master plan, as amended in.

I

2019 and would also have no adverse effects on the current use of the property and surrounding areas.

I

And the last case was 6471. This request is for conditional use to utilize the current manor.

I

House as a private school facility and variants on a westminster property off of stone, chapel road.

I

This planning staff finds this request for conditional use and variance is also.

I

Consistent with the 2014 carroll county master plan, as amended in 2019, and would have no adverse.

I

Effects on current use and surrounding areas, and all three of these cases were.

I

Scheduled tentatively to be heard september, 26 in front of the bza. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Any anything else nope, okay, all right, then um we will go to.

A

Number eight: the concept site plan for s, 210024, major property, rico, welding.

A

C

Good morning my name is amy barcroft, I'm here with the bureau of development review. I have.

C

Some representatives for the project with me: could you introduce yourselves yes good morning, kelly.

J

Schaefermiller 73 east main street westminster maryland 21157, I'm here this morning on behalf.

J

Of the applicant brian cooney, the property owner is far over to my left and then john.

J

Lemerman from rtf and associates is here who prepared the plan for today. Thank you. Thank you.

C

Again, this is a concept site plan. No action is required. This is s 2124 major property, bricco.

C

Welding we are located on the. Let me get my slideshow going here. We are located on the.

C

South side of wakefield valley, road, which is east of new windsor road. This is commissioner.

C

District one outside of new windsor, the acreage of the property, is 5.1 acres, and this is in the.

C

Agricultural zoning district- the property- is lot one of an existing subdivision. The major.

C

Property subdivided in 2009 and an existing storage building and contractor equipment.

C

Storage yard are operating on site. This site plan brings the property into compliance.

C

The property is accessed by a gravel driveway onto wakefield valley, road, the.

C

Surrounding properties, along with this property, are private, well and septic.

C

um On march 30th 2021, the owner developer, took the first step of bringing this property into.

C

Compliance by going to the board of zoning appeals and receiving the approval for the conditional use.

C

For the contractor equipment- storage yard that was operating, there were some conditions put on the.

C

Board put on the property by the board, including hours of operation being seven to five monday.

C

Through friday, there's no welding on site except personal vehicles and the use is not transferable.

C

With the property so again, this is a conditional use and requires a site plan approved by your.

C

Commission and that's this is the concept review for this plan today. I am stressing that there is.

C

No additional use or intensification of the use being proposed. There is no proposed disturbance.

C

The existing conditions are being brought into compliance by the approval of this plan, so the.

C

Plan proposes to keep the existing structures and operations on site and address the technical codes.

C

The aggregate agricultural zoning district allows contractor equipment storage yards to.

C

Be limited to one acre in size, the one acre is depicted in the southwest corner of the.

C

Property on the plan in the center of that yard is a 60 by 80, one-story, metal, storage building.

C

This building is used for storage and there is a gravel parking area that surrounds the building.

C

A note on the plan indicates that employees are dispatched from their homes and the owner has an.

C

Office space which is off-site so additionally, no public would come to this facility. It is strictly.

C

For storage and employee drop off and pickup and that results in not needing any designated parking.

C

Area in that gravel area, the zoning code does not have parking requirements associated with this use.

C

There's an existing dumpster located on site and the plan does not propose.

C

Any signage or lighting there is some building mounted lighting, but.

C

A note on the plan indicates that it's not utilized due to the daytime operating hours.

C

The plan addresses storm water management by proposing two grass swales and non-roof top.

C

Disconnects except storm water management, approval has been granted, forest conservation was uh proved.

C

Through the subdivision of the property and does not need to be addressed by this plan,.

C

Water resource management, grading zoning, floodplain and roads have approved the plan.

C

The site is outside of the bureau of utilities. The plan was found to be consistent with the.

C

Carroll county master plan by planning and the health department has approved the plan.

C

In review, the following agencies have comments that need to be addressed on the final plan.

C

Submittal and those include landscape fire protection, engineering site compliance, they.

C

All had comments that need to be um fleshed out in further planned submittal submittals.

C

The concept plan was originally submitted in september of 2021 and was discussed at.

C

The technical review committee meeting in october 25th 2021, we did receive comments from a citizen.

C

um Who had concerns regarding noise operating outside of the approved.

C

Hours of operation and industrial operations, the zoning administration is the arm of the.

C

County that enforces those conditions, and they have had several investigations to.

C

Enforce those concerns in those matters and have been out onto the property.

C

um The most recent investigation was closed in february of 2023. The final site plan would be.

C

Tested for adequacy of public facilities and again this is a concept planner review. No action is.

C

Required of you today, thank you. Thank you. Oh I'm, sorry, I forgot to show you my pictures of the site.

C

Here we have the storage building and the gravel area of storage area for the storage yard.

C

And we have the access drive a view from both wakefield valley. Excuse me.

C

From wakefield valley, road and from the site looking out onto.

C

Excuse me a view from the site looking out to the access drive.

C

Thank you I'll. If there's any questions, I have uh representatives here from the.

C

Project, if you have any concerns or comments, thank you miss miller. Do you have anything.

J

Thank you. I'm gonna scooch over here, no problem just so that I'm in the microphone good morning.

J

Planning, commission um just a few brief comments in relation to amy's staff report. I appreciate.

J

The staff report, just as some background for you all mr cooney, purchased this property with all of.

J

Everything existing on it. It had previously been used for something similar. So that's why you heard.

J

One of the comments about there was existing site lighting. That's not really used, that's because he.

J

Wasn't the one to put up this existing structure when he learned that he needed to go through the.

J

Approval process: that's what initiated the bza process and now the subsequent site plan.

J

In relation to some of the zoning complaints that have been issued, I did check in yesterday with the.

J

Zoning office there have been no zoning violations on this property. They have come out to do.

J

Compliance checks with the conditions related to the bza case. They have not found any violations on.

J

This property, some of those visits, have actually been initiated by mr cooney himself, calling zoning.

J

And saying hey, can you come check and make sure that I'm doing this correctly? I think it's a fair.

J

Representation and you're welcome to ask zoning themselves, but that mr cooney's been nothing but.

J

Cooperative with the zoning office and maintaining his compliance with that bza decision, so I I think.

J

It's fair to say and amy can disagree if she wants to that this plan. We do not anticipate.

J

Any changes substantive changes to this plan before it comes back for final, so we would.

J

Request that, if you're comfortable with granting the chair the authority to sign the final plan.

J

We would ask that you do that today. Like I said, if there are any substantial changes, we will be.

J

Back before you for final, but I don't believe that there will be, I think, we're far enough in.

J

This process, where we're confident in saying that there will not be substantial changes to.

J

The layout or this plan before it comes back for final. We are here and happy to answer any further.

J

Questions that this board has, but with that I will hand it back to you. Thank you, mr thank you.

A

All right questions so just some clarification with this with the process, so this property.

E

Had to get conditional use approved year after year after year, it looks like, or it sounds like.

J

It had it, it had to get one conditional use approval by bza the bza. The the code requires that.

J

Within six months of a bza decision, if a site plan is required, a site plan must be submitted so that.

J

What that is what occurred this case went before the board of zoning appeals received conditional.

J

Use approval and then, within that six-month window a site plan was submitted and now that's what.

J

You're, that's what we're exactly so! Is there actual um uh welding that occurs on this site.

J

No, mr cooney's business is welding at industrial sites. So that's why you see the name and the title.

J

Is bryco welding because that is his build his business, his employees go off-site the employees.

E

Are dispatched and they're fixing equipment and doing things of that nature off-site at the quarry.

J

For example, other big industrial sites and what? What type of uh you guys jump in I'm kind of no.

E

You're good you're, going to where I was gonna, go. uh What kind of contractor equipment is stored on.

E

Site, I will I will let mr cooney speak to the specifics, because I don't speak that language, but.

J

I think that those photographs that you saw were representative of the types of equipment you're.

J

You're going to see large tractor excavator type equipment, maybe I shouldn't use the word.

J

Excavating, um what does my son call these diggers, as my son would like to say or bulldozers, but.

J

Then also some smaller equipment for him to just work on parts and things as needed for his jobs.

J

Brian, if you want to chime in with some specifics there, we work for, like lehigh metro, quarry savage.

K

Stone sw barrack, the big quarries and their equipment's, the large that they can't. You know.

K

Move it even to the facility, so I have to go to them. So what is located on site is steel. You know.

K

I may have steel on site. I have four trucks that the guys get and they travel to the quarries to do.

K

The welding jobs there is drill, presses, you know their equipment that they can all carry on the.

K

Trucks, you know, that's what's kept in the building, um you know that type of stuff and there aren't.

E

Any welding repairs performed on those vehicles on site on my vehicle on the equipment, that's being.

E

Stored there is there any any repair occurring on those vehicles. There's repair occurring on some of.

J

Those things but not welding, because that was part of the bza's decision is that all of the welding.

J

For the businesses occurs at the site, which is what mr cooney had been doing anyways, but he.

J

Does occasionally fix his own equipment as well, and what kind of repairs would those be you mean.

K

On the trucks yeah just typical maintenance brakes every now and then there's welding.

K

um uh Some of the some of the trucks are mine. You know, of course, I stretch them. There's one in there.

K

I don't think it's in a current picture, but it's my truck. I've stretched it, um which means I had to.

K

Weld the frames together that type of thing there is some welding that occurs there. Is there a.

E

Welding, I'm assuming is associated with potential fire. Is there uh any kind of.

E

Rude right now, it's gravel driveway. Is there any kind of driveway improvement.

E

That would need to be that would need to occur, to facilitate emergency vehicles getting in and.

E

Out of the property john can answer that. Good morning john loverman tf associates.

L

So the the width of the driveway is adequate for emergency services. I think we did have one.

L

Outstanding comment from emergency services to put some kind of sign related to the business at.

L

The end of the driveway, and uh but that was it so that was their only concern as far as.

L

Emergency services and I'm I'm asking because I'm not complete- I guess I'm assuming we have.

E

A lot of gravel driveways in carroll county, I'm assuming fires, okay, with gravel versus paved.

L

Okay, the only other concerned with access drives at emergency services would have as a to make.

L

Sure, like the branches, are trimmed, you know if it was a wooded driveway, which this is not the case.

M

I'm sorry, johnson, that's okay! I guess I'll jump in and and in reading through the notes from the bza.

M

Case it sounded like it appeared to me, like one of the concerns of your neighbors, was noise and was.

M

The noise that was emanating from the property was that primarily due to covid, you were doing more.

M

Things on site- and this has been reduced since the the pandemic, or do you see that periodically.

M

Because of the your workflow, it might be something that happens again or I would I wouldn't want to.

M

Set you up to fail, you know in terms of being a good neighbor and your neighbors, uh so I don't.

M

Know how to how to ask that question other than to say the hours of the operation that are shown in.

M

Here and noise-wise we're we're good with the con. The conditions that have been placed placed on you.

K

Yes, sir, I'm fine with how things are um the noise complaints would be uh from a guy's come.

K

Back with steel chunks and they throw them in a dumpster, you know how that sounds. Obviously,.

K

That you're going to hear that um I do adhere to the seven to five. You know no matter what.

K

What they're saying I do not work before that in that building and I do not um stay later. I may.

K

Stay later, but it's just me in the building um the you know when I left off steel, that's sent.

K

To go to a job site, you know, forks are going to slide under the steel plates to unload them.

K

Off the steel truck, you know it's going to make a sound right. um Lehigh is just over the berm from.

K

Where I am, I hear them more and I hear anything I'm doing, but that's neither here or there, but.

K

um You know it's, you know, I'm not trying to upset people yeah and I'm not trying to I'm not trying.

M

To put you on the spot, I just want to understand what I read and what your perception of that is.

M

And and make sure that we've asked the question on behalf of the citizens, I've got nothing else.

G

Does the plan allow for expansion of your business, I'm not going to expand I'm 58 years old, I'm just.

K

Gonna, but if someone else came in no one, no one came out for another building or anything at.

K

All actually, in the plan that says anything about expansion, I would say that one of the conditions.

C

Is the use is non-transferable by the board of zoning appeals and additionally, the use is limited.

C

To one acre in size, so again the plan highlights that one acre area and there there are no.

C

um Foreseeable ways to intensify the use without.

G

Process to correct okay, that's what I was wondering.

G

Okay, thank you question. I would have um you know, as it is a lot it's an ag zone, um I mean.

N

Could they build a house on this eventually? Could someone build a house on this lot also.

N

At some point, it is approved residential life. Also, yes, as I see it, has two existing wells on.

N

It are they both for that building. Basically, right now is one of them for an adjoining.

N

Property, or is it existing well for one's for a home and one's for the building? Okay, yeah, that.

E

Was one of the odd things I when I was reading through this it? It seems to be an industrial use.

E

um But it's agricultural zone, so I I thought that was a little odd and there is a section in the.

C

Zoning code that is specifically for contractor equipment storage yard in the egg zoning district.

J

That's what I was going to say it's one of the many uses in the accident.

O

And one we see almost monthly at bza these contractors equipment storage yards in the.

J

Ag zone just by virtue of our county and the small businesses in the county.

A

You guys ask all the questions.

A

um So your question is: would they be comfortable with it coming directly to the chair, correct.

A

um Rather than any thoughts any comments from the community before we do that.

A

A

um Is there any public comment for this.

A

Okay, seeing none then um I would ask the question again I'll make.

N

The motion that we allow you to sign off on this at a later date. A second.

A

All in favor aye and thank you, thank you. Okay, thank you. Thank you.

A

Number nine.

A

All requirements for commercial districts.

A

We're going to discuss and possibly decide, possibly possibly.

D

Okay, good morning, planning commission um very familiar with this. By now, this was.

D

First introduced to you all in july and hoping for a official recommendation from you all to the.

D

Board of county commissioners at today's meeting so as discussed multiple times the direction given.

D

From the board of county commissioners was to examine the bulk requirements in the commercial.

D

Zoning districts when directly adjacent to residential districts, so this map displays.

D

In red all of the commercial zoned properties that are abutting a residential district, so any.

D

Recommendation that you give would be affecting these properties that are shown on this map.

D

So the main topic of discussion these past couple months has been building height, so we wanted to.

D

Offer you the definition. That's in our zoning code building height is the vertical distance.

D

From grade plane to the average height of the highest roof surface, so it is not from ground.

D

To the highest point of the building, it is the average height of the highest roof surface. So.

D

Just some clarity there, so at the august meeting we said that we would bring back some proposed.

D

Language to you all, and we offer that in the red writing so for the purposes of this section.

D

Adjoining means two or more parcels that share a common property line or point of intersection of.

D

Two property lines, and then here is the bulk requirements. We are offering the following.

D

Requirements shall be observed for properties in the commercial districts that are adjoining a.

D

Property in a residential district, so, as you can see, we kept the same front yard side, yard, rear.

D

Yard setbacks and then lowering the height from the 50 foot maximum to a 40 foot maximum. And if.

D

You'll remember in august there was an agreement upon you all of the 40 feet due to that being.

D

What it was previously in the bnr districts before the comprehensive resoning updates.

D

So also at the august planning commission meeting there was some citizen feedback.

D

Given about examining the other setbacks and we'd researched this a little bit and we found.

D

That, prior to the 2019 comprehensive zoning code updates the side, side, yard setbacks for properties.

D

In commercial zones, when they are adjacent to a residential district were 15 feet. So if there.

D

Was any want on the planning commission's part for increasing those setbacks? Maybe 15 would be.

D

A comparable number since that's what it was previously, but that's up to your discretion.

D

And then again also at the august planning commission meeting, we had a little bit.

D

Discussion on grandfathering, it's the staff's recommendation that we include some language.

D

Specifically grandfathering existing buildings to prevent the creation of any non-conforming.

D

Buildings in the county and then, if it is your want to include any more discussion.

D

Language on grandfathering, perhaps looking at these options, we've listed whether it's.

D

Grandfathering projects with a number assigned in the development review process, whether they.

D

Have planning commission concept, review or planning commission final site plan approval.

D

So some things for your discussion today and I'm here for any questions.

A

A

Questions pete.

A

You know, first of all, I appreciate you all kind of I. I heard a comment that um we did. I think janice.

M

You said, let's table this, because one of our more vocal members is not here, so I appreciate that I.

M

Guess that was me um yeah the the 40 feet, foot height, the height thing is the is what I would.

M

Focus on today, if I could for a second, I think grandfathering, is an easy, is an easy thing. I.

M

Think the the side yards um and the rear yards we can get to. I I would ask us to to contemplate.

M

What this looks like when you've got a two-story home residential property, that and again this is.

M

The property that's adjacent when it's we're only talking about commercial property, that is.

M

Adjacent to residential, if it's a two-story home, a 40-foot average height building adjacent to it.

M

Is pretty dominating visually and I I would be more inclined to something you know in that 30.

M

That 30 foot range um that that's where I that's where I am mentally on this, and I know that y'all.

M

Had discussed it, I watched it. um I I just want to ask you to kind of contemplate. You know what this.

M

Looks like visually, um you know in terms of um of how something that's 40 feet tall would appear.

M

um You know when somebody has made an investment. Now I've heard it said.

M

And it's not it's not entirely wrong. If you bought the property, you knew it was adjacent.

M

To a commercial piece of property- and you knew what could have been developed there, so this is.

M

To some degree, you know on the person who bought the property. At the same time, it is a neighborhood.

M

We're talking about one of the things we want to do, I think, is preserve the neighborhoods. The.

M

In our bedroom communities, so I would just push back here: I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna.

M

Die on this wall, but I'm thinking 30 feet ought to be the number that's where I am on this middle.

N

The piece I would add is you know it was 40 feet before so it got changed. So you know I'm fine with.

N

40., um just because that's what was there before when anybody would have bought it in the past.

N

But uh one thing to think about is you know not all the time these buildings are going to.

N

Be built right next to the property line. I don't know if it's some way they can put some kind of.

N

Scale in there, the farther they are away from the residential area, they can build higher because.

N

Really, it's just the fact that you look out of your house and here's this 40-foot building you.

N

Know 25 feet away from your bedroom window. That's very all-star! I don't know if there's any way that.

N

Can be changed so because you know some of some of your commercial properties that are next to.

N

Residentials are larger pieces of property exactly right, and if we just, I guess they can always come.

N

For a zoning variance, but if it's, if it's in there they're going to have a hard time getting around.

N

You know the fact that we're saying okay can only be 40 foot. I don't care if it's a quarter.

N

Mile, well, it's not gonna, be a quarter mile, but 100 yards away. Sure from the residential houses.

N

So and and that's an interesting thought because- and I don't think we don't know, we all know which.

N

Property got all this started and that's in a very resident, it's commercial residential.

N

But it's right there along 26, but there's houses right behind it. That's right and so to your point.

M

And I think it's a good. It's worth us slowing down for a second and talking about because.

M

Again, I don't have a problem if there's a 50 acre parcel and there's a residential parcel that that.

M

Is contiguous that first building would be 30 feet yeah and the next one could be 40 50. I mean you.

M

Know because again it's further away like you're saying because it's a it's a it's a it's a multi.

M

Parcel to some degree development so we're talking about the parcel, that's immediately adjacent to.

M

Contiguous to the residential property, I don't have a problem at all with what you're describing.

M

Matthew, I think that was totally reasonable to allow for those higher buildings the further away.

M

You are from that property line, so I agree with that and I'm not sure how to do that.

M

um Yeah yeah it it would be difficult because we'd be coming from a place.

P

We're not sure for every so many feet of setback, how much extra height should you.

P

Get we, I hate to say, we'd, be pretty much guessing at what's reasonable for that.

P

um I also just did want to point out. I didn't want to leave you with the wrong impression. It.

P

Was not 40 feet before the 2019 comprehensive rezoning for all commercial properties? The bg.

P

District, which was most commercial properties and the bnr district or the two business districts.

P

Then we went to c1, c2 and c3, so the bnr was 40, the bg was 50.. We made all three of them 50. the.

P

Commissioners made all three, so there would still be some that have previously been bg. That would.

P

I don't want to say, they'd be hurt, but they would be affected because they did come in under the 50.

P

Feet I just want to I'm not saying other than I just want you to have that information. Oh good.

A

Richard I I tend to like peter's idea of the 30 feet from the first. You know.

B

Adjacent to that the house it sounds like it would be difficult to do that.

P

You're talking about a sliding scale, basically so for every so many feet of setback, then you get some more height and some more.

D

I'll also add that the commercial properties in the county aren't that large, like as you.

D

Said the property, that's being that brought this whole discussion on is not very big, so.

D

Not sure how much it would help might help some properties may not affect other properties, so.

E

Height does not include any signage built on top of the top of the building. I think the example.

E

From the last time was the royal farms building or you know, whatever it was, or the rite aid.

E

Is there a way that we could put language in the code to limit.

E

Cap it at 40, regardless of signage or not, and you figure out you know as an earner.

E

You know a franchise, whatever you figure out how to put your signage within that 40 feet.

E

Signage isn't facing the residential, though so the signage is probably not the problem.

P

Because the signage is facing the road, it's not typically going to be facing.

P

The residential property right! But if I'm, if I'm a homeowner and it's 10 feet from my home.

E

Which is allowable, I'm going to see 50 feet or 55 feet yeah, so it does become part of it.

E

In my mind I agree so then so the difficulty here is is trying to put together code language that.

F

Can cover all these different scenarios, and so I mean there are some guide rails that are in.

F

Place right, so, if a developer wishes to construct something that um that's say, the the threshold is.

F

50 feet and there's some additional equipment or signage or whatever, that takes a little bit higher.

F

They would have to discuss that with the zoning administrator to see if it's allowable, then, when.

F

It becomes for you all, you have the discretion to provide additional guide rails or additional.

F

Guidance that that would allow or disallow that so you have the the authority to to look at that as.

F

Well concept: yes, yes, yeah and then, but you know chris part of the the pushback on that that I.

M

Would offer is that, so we do things here and we've had it happen to us once where we made suggestions.

M

To a developer and the developer totally ignored them, he went to the bza and the bza being um you.

M

Know a de novo hearing, they didn't hear anything about what we talked about. They didn't see the.

M

Give and take or the I don't know, maybe it was just take on our part. I don't know, but um they.

M

Didn't whether they would have benefited from that or been hurt harmed by it again, the guy had a.

M

Hearing and uh you know so so what we tried to do was ignored so so then you know we we fall back to.

M

What is the code and and that's where the code provides a level of protection.

M

To the citizens and and the code should reflect.

M

We as citizens want for our county. I guess I would go back to you know if, if it's too hard to do.

M

Don't do it other other municipalities have to be they. They have to have done something like.

M

This and I would suggest to us that there is a minimum size- commercial lot, that we allow right.

M

There's not a minimum.

P

We did find that your average seats to zoned district- I don't know if you talked about this.

P

Before it came in is 1.3 acres, that's the average. So there's some that are huge. But there's if you.

P

Look at that range there's some that were much smaller, but the average is only 1.3 acres, which.

P

Is where we run into excuse me a little of the difficulty in what you were talking about, because.

P

If what chris you, you figured this out, it's like that's 200, yeah, 130, yeah, yes, 43, 560., yeah! So.

M

Again, it would seem to me that we that there could be a minimum.

M

Commercial lot size of let's call it a half an acre. That's you know so so if somebody.

M

Wanted to subdivide to someday, I don't know if I'm using the right terms here.

M

But if somebody wanted to subdivide, you know and build a small building and then build an.

M

Another building, next to it, you know the first building would be one the one height and that.

M

Would transition to a taller building? It would seem to me that there would be or, like you know,.

M

What we're saying is again there's some sort of uh a sight line that we're looking for.

M

Or the height of a building the further it gets away from the property line with residential.

M

That's, I think, what we're looking for or what I would be looking for. um Peter, are you thinking.

E

Like 1.3 acres, you know anything, 1.5, acres or less commercial could have a height of I'm just making.

E

Numbers up we're making 20 feet, you know 1.5 to 5. Acres could be 30 feet over 5 to 10. Could.

E

Be 40 feet so nothing like that but yeah, but I think we're back to, and this is where again I I.

M

Don't disagree with you. This is not easy. We're getting back to the distance from the property.

M

Line right, that's yeah! That's I think where we are. That's all all that matters. It's a good neighbor.

G

Hood, I think I think, before we get into these deep weeds we're in now, I think we should get.

G

Back to who are we trying to protect here and I'm thinking about the neighborhood, the people.

G

Who own the houses, the residential people who are concerned about this? I I don't like uh building.

G

That high right next to residential properties, I can understand why the people are upset about this.

G

And someone mentioned well, this is too hard to do. I don't think anything is too hard to do so. If.

G

If we want to try to protect the neighborhood and make the quality of life as good as possible, which.

G

Is what the neighborhood has expected from day one then, if we need to lower those heights, we do it.

G

And the farther, if you want to go 60 feet, 70 feet on out in the middle of the field, I'm okay.

G

With that, but having these high buildings next to a neighborhood in a neighborhood, it changes.

G

The quality of life and the expectations of that neighborhood. So if you want to go.

G

30 feet: I'm okay with that I'd be okay with 25.! It's next to a neighborhood.

G

Or a housing project or houses that have been there forever, with people's expectations of.

G

Quality of life, if, if my house is under a shadow half the day because of a big building next to me,.

G

That I never expected to be I'd be upset about it. So I think that's the overriding question we can.

G

Talk about all this other stuff, but I think that's the overriding question here: what do we do about.

G

Tall buildings next to housing houses that have been there forever. I that's that's my overriding.

G

Concern here yeah I mean and it's one thing: if there's no neighborhoods there and the building.

Q

Is there first and then you build houses next to a budget? Absolutely because I I think I know what.

Q

Case you're, referring to where there was a lot of input from the community and everything we brought.

Q

Up we took that in consideration and, like you said there was absolutely no no discretion. I think from.

Q

What we had recommended when it went to bza, and so now you have all these neighbors that are.

Q

Upset because their concerns weren't even heard at the end of the day so well, I think.

N

Where we failed on that was, is the fact that that concept right we made comments, but not.

N

The comments we did at final- that's right and that's kind of where we were a little.

M

Too polite, so I don't. I was too green yeah, so so I would say that definitely you know. I agree with.

N

Raffle I mean what is the maximum height doing a residential house? I'm not sure there is one. Is it.

N

Pretty much everywhere there is it's like three stories, plus a gable yeah, probably down.

A

The apartment buildings um or townhouses.

A

Three levels- they're, probably at least 35, maybe.

P

I'm sorry it's right here. I just I'm not looking at it.

P

Thank you um so for ag conservation, our 40 or 20, our 10 and our 75.. It is 35 feet.

A

We thank you, I think two things I think the height is subjective to the topography.

A

um I think in some instances a 30-foot high building could be extremely high, because the.

A

Land is higher, um so I think it's hard to decide where to go and we talk about.

A

um You know maybe grading it to different size, but often properties are parallel to residential.

A

So if the first property is said, it could be 30, 35 feet and the next one's 40. If it's parallel.

A

We're not not working correctly on that theory and the other thing I totally understand. I would.

A

Not want to be with buildings that overshadowed me down the beach look at condominiums and they.

A

Have little houses- and you know you can't get your son bathing in, however,.

A

um There also is property rights on both sides of the fence. Here.

A

So while we don't necessarily like at all, we do have to be cognizant of another person's right.

A

So I'm not sure what the answer is, but I agree that it's probably higher is not better well, you.

Q

Bring up a good point too, about the topography, because I work in the commercial construction.

Q

Industry and a lot of times to you see an engineer to maybe get away with in spring, or you have a.

Q

Standpipe, well, that has to be a certain level. So what they'll do is to eliminate that they'll move.

Q

The fire department connection up the hill, so then the height of the building is less than it really.

Q

Is so if you you know, we'd almost have to put in saying it's 30 feet from the lowest point of the.

Q

Grade or or whatever it might be, because there's always ways to cheat and still be code compliant.

Q

And it happens all the time I mean that's the industry. I work and I see it all the time.

O

So richard have you weighed in I'm still with 30 feet for the first building and higher after that.

F

So if I may mary, you said that residential maximum height is 35 feet, so my recommendation would be.

F

Not to go below the 35 if the resident, if, if from a residential perspective, that's the height, then.

F

Reducing commercial bulk requirements lower than that doesn't seem to be in line with with the.

F

Current code, the other thing is, it sounds like there's some interest in in looking at the size.

F

Of the property, as some guidance towards that, so are you suggesting that perhaps a certain.

F

Acreage would have one maximum height and then, if you were over another acreage, it would be a.

F

Greater height, I think chris, what I'm saying is it's the distance from the property line yeah. I.

O

Mean you know, let's face it, I mean it could be. It could be a really long, thin piece of.

M

Property but because there's not any distance between the the con, the property line, that is.

M

Contiguous with exist and again we're talking about existing residential there's, no residential.

M

There, the the world's his oyster, because he's there first, but when a new development is.

M

Built on property that is contiguous to existing residential, the height should not exceed 35 feet.

M

And the further the building is away from that contiguous property line. The building could get.

M

Taller, based on some sort of slope that y'all to help us to help us okay figure out, does that make.

F

Sense, yeah: no, I got what you're saying um I think to simplify matters. Maybe we come up with with.

F

Two criteria and- and we can figure out what those would be, but, for example, if it's a certain setback,.

F

Then 35 feet is the maximum height. If it's another setback and we can come up with a recommended.

F

Distance than it would be 40 feet, and if we want to have three data points or, however, however, you.

F

All would like to make the recommendation, but that would be simpler than than a sliding scale where.

F

If it's now 11 feet now, it's 12 feet, the height is that makes so much sense. It's not even funny.

M

That's great and the other part of that is and I'll say this too, your your notion of topography.

M

You're exactly right and I didn't even think of that. But again I don't think.

M

That I don't think that should be part of it. I really don't because again like we're.

M

Saying if, if you're higher up, if your personal is higher from a topographical standpoint than.

M

Your adjacent property you're, getting it with a 20-foot building; no, no! No! No! No! I.

M

Don't think that's right either right, so I I think topography is not the issue and.

M

I'll say something else here that that that still sticks in the crawl of a lot of people.

M

In the freedom district- and I know this is more than the freedom district, okay.

M

Is that multi-family? You know over 50 thing that was built that I still don't believe we have a lot.

M

More hook and ladder truck that can get to the top of that darn thing. If it catches on fire, I'm told.

M

What we do I'll shut up about it, but I'm just saying that thing is tall. It is really up there.

M

And again, you've got homes adjacent to it. We don't want to have anything even.

M

Remotely like that ever happen again in in in and that's just plopped into the middle of a.

M

Neighborhood, a bedroom community, so um I'll get off my soapbox, um I'm done! Thank you. Okay,.

A

um See when, when we're talking about, if the houses aren't there, but.

A

I guess a good attorney would argue if there's um a property in the queue- and you know we have.

A

Multiple subdivisions out there they aren't bet yet, but if it's been approved and they've just.

A

Delayed it, for whatever reason would they have say, then in you know the building getting.

A

Taller so I I can see a lot of questions with that and jim I did notice. You had a.

A

Look like you did have a scale. Did you have something you wanted to.

P

uh No, I'm not here to comment on the wisdom of the policy just to make sure you guys are. uh You know.

I

Staying out of trouble wisdom is what it is yeah, so sorry go ahead when we're talking about the.

P

Houses and how they're affected the way this is written currently and the way we usually write it.

P

Is it's from the property line of the residential district? So that's going to factor in too.

P

um I I just don't I I personally wouldn't recommend changing that, because it's very.

P

Difficult then, to do those measurements and enforce that. But I just wanted to point that.

P

Out that that is what we're talking about property, I do think that makes a total sense.

M

Too yeah yeah, let's keep it the same yeah and if I could comment on on just on two items that were.

F

Brought up first of all, I completely agree on the topographic question, because you also have.

F

To look at the flip side, so if a building is down in a valley, does that mean that they could then.

F

Be even taller right, it's yeah, the topography of the of the lens needs to be taken out of it.

F

The other issue with regarding to projects in the queue, I think, the primary concern that everybody.

F

Is is worried about are the established houses that are in the ground? People have lived there.

F

For a while, and then something comes in so if a residential neighborhood were in the queue and.

F

Then a a commercial property we're in the queue also, I think, there's not that established I've.

F

Lived there for 10 15 years didn't know it was didn't understand what was the zone next to me and.

F

So on, I don't think that issue is quite um as dire so okay, so what I'm hearing is 35 feet instead.

F

But yes, and we can come back with a recommendation for a an increased setback for a greater height.

F

And- and I think what I think we'll do is come back with three data points so say.

F

35 40 and 50, with associated setbacks that would allow for those heights to get that.

F

Slope idea of if it's a greater setback from the property line than the height.

F

Of the building could be higher and we'll we'll look into that and see what's what's uh what we.

F

Think is, it makes sense and bring that back for discussion. This is all based on established and.

F

April, yes, established right, established, neighborhoods, yes, okay! This is commercial.

M

Property adjacent to existing residential right. Thank you. Y'all have been great and I.

M

Appreciate it, I've been a pain in detail on this thing. No, no, no! No, we knew you'd have comments.

O

Oh yeah, so um you can't help yourself all right. So if everybody here is done.

A

I know that we have some public out there that would like to speak. I want to remind you that.

A

um First, you should have signed in in order to speak. um Please talk into the microphone.

A

To facilitate the audio and video we we do have people watching, so they would like to.

A

Hear what you have to say as well comments are going to be limited to three minutes.

A

um The citizen testimony is not a question. An answer session.

A

If you have any specific questions, you can direct it to the staff after the meeting and should any.

A

Individual fail to comply. The planning commission zoning chair may call the person out of order.

A

And require him or her to leave the building. So with that, is there any public.

A

Please come up state, your name and your address, although I think we probably.

A

Are familiar good morning, nancy lynch we live at 6503 carroll highlands, road.

R

um I especially appreciate mr robertson's comments about considering the citizens.

R

Who live there? Could you pass it um when we had the town hall with commissioner rothstein.

R

Many residents talked about complying with the freedom comprehensive plan and he said.

R

There should be a careful balance between the county code and the freedom comprehensive plan.

R

And I printed out a few excerpts from that. It is the framework for land use growth management for.

R

The greater eldersburg sykesville area and it states government will not fundamentally.

R

Transform communities against the will of existing homeowners and residents and.

R

Then further down it says, citizens, rights and property are respected, protected and sustained.

R

I think you know we live right next to where that carroll, highland storage was proposed and.

R

You probably know we filed a lawsuit against it and they did withdraw their application.

R

Part of the reason they withdrew, it is because there's a deed restriction on part of the land.

R

That goes back to 1955 when our house was built. It prohibits commercial building on the corner.

R

Lot, it's a deed restriction residential only and we believe the developer did not want to litigate.

R

That so we feel that you're, bored and other county officials should take these d restrictions into.

R

Account when you're going through the approval process, the dual developer first met with county.

R

Officials in july 2021 and it's been barreling through the approval process for two years now,.

R

When this deed restriction was not going to really allow any commercial, driveway or sidewalk built on.

R

That that was the access to the property, so it's just something I think you should take.

R

Into consideration also, regarding the setbacks, we really feel that distance should be more farther.

R

Away than I looked at those six properties that we discussed last time, and most of them were about.

R

At least a hundred feet from any residential lot and several were several hundred feet so.

R

I know my time's almost up, but that's the gist of what I wanted to say. Thank you. I.

A

Do you all look at deeds? I know engineers do when they meet often they may look at a deed which.

A

Would kind of give that, but so I can answer that so deed restrictions are that's a legal.

F

Restriction established between the property owner and the people that then move into the.

F

Neighborhood, the county does not get involved with those, and we wouldn't speak to the legality of of.

F

Any of those types of restrictions, there's, if you go back through old deeds, there's some.

F

There's some very questionable deed restrictions um going back 70 years or so that there's no way.

F

That that we would get involved in these sorts of those discussions, so it's really a legal issue.

F

For the property owner too, and to get into the county would not be involved and enforced. Yeah.

A

Okay, oh any other! Yes,.

S

Good morning my name is audrey novak. I live at 6505 carroll highlands road. I am two houses.

S

Away from from the lot that has stirred this whole pot, I just have one comment, I'm I know.

S

You've all heard you've, hopefully you've read you've seen you know all the meetings that we.

S

Have discussed and discussed and discussed, but one thing I want to comment on if you could put.

S

The slide back up again about the setbacks that are currently and mr hein at the last meeting.

S

You made a comment that you said that um it's it's really a it's really not an issue because.

S

um People don't usually build. You know that close, but my feeling is never say. Never, never.

S

Say never 10 feet is probably I used to do vision, screening of young children and we tested them at.

S

10 feet, so I pretty much know what 10 feet is it's from where I stand, probably to the end of.

S

That chair just imagine that from your property line to a huge, so I think setbacks are equally.

S

As important as the height of the building, when you're talking about in a residential area such.

S

As carroll highlands and as far as those of us who bought the property, I've been a property.

S

Owner there for 33 years, and that's always been commercial, yes, but the commercial endeavor was.

S

Liberty, plumbing and then a small strip mall that um was there not a huge humongous building.

S

So I appreciate all of the time and energy and effort that have gone into this, but we have also.

S

Put time and energy and thousands of dollars in legal fees to bring this matter to where.

S

We want to have concise restrictions that can't be dickered with. Thank you very much. Thank you.

A

A

T

Chris to the point about um your name: oh sorry, jill lynch, um 6503 carroll highlands, road.

T

um To the point about the deed restriction, the.

T

County invested a lot of man hours with this developer over a two-year period.

T

Looking at it evaluating it inspecting it, the all the disciplines in the county looked at this.

T

Project, I'm just throwing it out there, wouldn't it make sense to have a developer just testify.

T

To the boards, it is my understanding that this project, this project can be built.

T

Without any covenants or restrictions, I sue hereby testify to you guys. The boards.

T

Before project goes forward, it's a simple piece of paper.

T

That they have taken the time to look at it and are honestly evaluating whether it needs to be.

T

You need to be notified that there could be a problem with it, because you've invested time.

T

And resources man hours into this project, just an idea. Before this meeting, I took the time to write.

T

My ideas on on restricting commercial property that is going to be so close to residential.

T

This this building that was almost almost happened, was shoehorned really into total residential area.

T

I mean 50 feet, my house is a one-story ranch and this thing is on an elevated lot to start with.

T

And it looks down on other properties, the shadow, as you pointed out,.

T

Is a factor- and I just wanted you guys to to hear our impressions of what would be.

T

Allowable in our point of view, so 30 feet to me sounds great commissioner. Lester.

T

It really should be no higher than the tallest building within that residential area. Whether.

T

It's 30 feet 40 feet whatever it shouldn't be any taller than that. That's our take.

T

And the distance from a property line should also take a consideration, noise and lighting that can.

T

Be affected that will interrupt the tranquility of the peace and quiet that is enjoyed by the.

T

Neighborhood, so I don't know whether you got this, but I would ask you to just read it and.

T

See if I'm all wet or there's some points we can agree on. Thank you for your time. Thank you.

A

I will say from a past developer standpoint: um well, we may, and I always had deeds and even as.

A

A real estate agent, I always look through deeds. However, deeds can go back many years and sometimes.

A

You miss that um so I I don't know what um and and some developers currently today do their.

A

Homework and they do look at zoning, they look at deeds. They look at everything, others just kind of.

A

Do it quickly, so I don't know that there's a good answer there for that.

A

um I don't disagree with the distance from property. I think 10 feet is probably too close.

A

Especially in as an enjoy area, so we need to look at that. Did we look at what maybe.

A

Some other jurisdictions do like that. Well I mean this was cocked at and you all did it.

P

Yeah several of you were here in 2017-18 and then the commissioners did it in 2019 and we.

P

Didn't make many changes to the commercial districts because we were on par with what.

P

Other jurisdictions do for commercial. Now, that's not to say specifically regarding when they're.

P

Adjacent to residential, most of them didn't have that. um But as far as we didn't consider.

P

Them increasing them in general because it didn't seem necessary and it didn't seem like that was.

P

Trend in any of the other jurisdictions we looked at.

A

I don't have the answers, I'm hoping you all do yeah so yeah. So we'll we'll come back at.

F

Next meeting and have some suggestions regarding setbacks and how that relates to building height.

F

For your consideration, chris, everyone on staff. Thank you. I really do appreciate.

M

Your attention to this, thank you so much. We have another public sorta. Thank you.

J

Shafer miller, 73 east main street westminster maryland 21157, as many of you have witnessed, I've.

J

Also been observing all of these efforts as well. um You know I'm commenting here today because now.

J

We're kind of working with some tangible text that we can look at and have some feedback for, and I've.

J

Shared a lot of my feedback with staff already, so this won't be news to them. I speak here today.

J

Generally and on behalf of several clients who have commercially zoned property throughout the.

J

County, not just in the freedom district, I would just generically say to you, as you recognize this.

J

Impacts, the entire commercial district: this is not specific to freedom. This impacts all.

J

Commercial zoning districts and I would also say that, because the bulk requirements for all.

J

Commercial zones were combined in that most recent comprehensive text. Amendment we're now looking at.

J

Impacting the height regulations for c3 property, as well as c1 and c2, that's our highest intensity.

J

Commercial district and our 75 residential 75 allows for a maximum height of 40 feet so to.

J

Provide a maximum height, that's lower in c3. Zoning just does not seem cohesive with our goals for.

J

Some economic development in this county. I would also say that if you take a look at the use chart.

J

Again, c3 proposes some of the most intense commercial uses in the county, so I do think.

J

It's appropriate and it matches to have a higher height regulation in our commercial districts.

J

Specifically, c2 and c3, those are the places where it should happen. I recognize, and I appreciate the.

J

Comments that have been made and the the goals of this planning commission to focus on where.

J

This adjoins residential properties and I'm not overlooking that component, but I do think that.

J

When you look at the zoning maps, this impacts a lot of properties, we're not talking one or two.

J

We're talking swaths of properties and that's because a lot of the more intense commercial.

J

Zoning districts are on state highways and then in the rear of them are residential. Zoned.

J

Properties, [music] you know I took a look back at the county code because, thanks to my um nice.

J

Bookshelf in my office we have codes dating back to the inception of zoning in carroll, county and.

J

There did used to be some scaling component to some of the commercial districts and including.

J

The setbacks and including some topography, which was an interesting to me, and I don't know that.

J

That's something that most people would be opposed to, but it did provide for greater height and again.

J

At that point in time, bg allowed for 50 feet and the scaling allowed for greater height depending.

J

On some of the setbacks, the topography, other considerations and specific uses on the property.

J

I know I'm I'm at my time, but I do also just want to say briefly that mission of building.

J

Height is in the code and that's what the zoning administrator has to look at in interpreting.

J

This, but keep in mind please that some of the architectural designs that you would like to see.

J

Include some roof structures and things that might go above that feat and therefore a developer would.

J

Not be able to achieve that and maximize what they need to make the development feasible on the.

J

Property- so I think perhaps as you've identified here today, just a more comprehensive look at.

J

All of this is valuable to at least understand those impacts going forward. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Any other comments.

U

uh Robert binnick 6513 panorama drive eldersburg and we were all part of the carroll highlands.

U

U

But we were in the shadow of that building. It was not only the height of the building.

U

It was the use of the building and the birth of the building, because the building was going to.

U

Be 200 feet long, 100, foot wide and 50 foot tall on the hill so and it was a bulk storage facility. So.

U

We had a lot of reservations about putting a warehouse next to our residential area.

U

And looking at other jurisdictions, prince george's county limited the bulk storage.

U

Facilities to commercial areas only, I don't know how other jurisdictions did it either, but.

U

Yeah, we were very opposed to something that big.

U

A warehouse for better terms to be put in our neighborhood and we appreciate the comments.

U

Of all the board members- and one comment was that we know what we were getting into when.

U

We brought the property that that's not what we understood the eldersburg community is was.

U

And is a mom-and-pop neighborhood and that's what was on the property and all the buildings in the.

U

Neighborhood conformed that consistency. We had a a bank which is what's now a kitchen uh facility.

U

Which is a house and it blends in the neighborhood, the dunkin donuts, which transformed from not a.

U

Commercial building to more of a residential building to fit in the neighborhood.

U

The title company was the same way. It looks like a big rancher.

U

So, to put something in a neighborhood that looks like a warehouse is, was to our opinion, not.

U

Not very good, so we thank you very much. Thank you. Any other comments.

V

My name is joyce bennett. I live at 6513 panorama, drive, eldersburg, maryland and.

V

First, truly, I appreciate many of the comments. I appreciate that you seem to have an understanding.

V

Of how of what we invested in of what carroll county means to us of what our neighborhood.

V

Our community means to us so to hear so many of you say that 20 you're, fine with 25 or 30 feet.

V

High you know truly, there is an appreciation that you seem to have a sense of neighborhood.

V

All the reasons that we all moved to carroll county and what carroll county means to us.

V

Personally, we've been there 28 years and again there was the comment about to buy in.

V

You may be aware of the zoning and other areas. Well, there is.

V

To me a very huge misunderstanding, because the property we thought and understood the property.

V

Where the proposed storage facility unit was going to be built, we thought that had been zoned bnr.

V

And then change to c2 recently last years, so there's confusion on our garden to be.

V

Educated on how it fits to be changed and how it now fits to be deemed too.

V

Criteria for c2 so that that's sort of like a whole can of worms in itself.

V

But um before my time runs out, I appreciate that you're looking at height restrictions that as many.

V

Have said it's the total picture of how close to the property line will the building be? How.

V

Wide will it be and I'm reiterating what light and noise will the business generate that will affect.

V

Again, everything that we invested in for our homes to be and that we now have- and I also understand.

V

You know businesses and their rights and um I'm running out of time now it almost seems that every.

V

Thought of land like this should be looked at or zoe. I don't know how many you have or how massive.

V

um But but it almost seems that there needs to be a re-evaluation of property.

V

And zoning and I'm always rooting for a win-win in every situation,.

V

So again, my appreciation and thanks and um I I I think I just keep asking for fairness. Thank you.

A

um I will say, um and I'm sure everybody is aware of it once the property does come to.

A

Us as the commission, it has been through a number of channels and of course we do.

A

Ask questions so it's not um it. It isn't just thrown at us and we say.

A

Here it is we'll we'll approve it because, as you know, we haven't always approved something, so um it.

A

Is a process and we do take it seriously, so any other comments.

A

Okay, um so we are, you are going to give us some more um guidance, one thing and okay, all right.

A

I think that is it for today I would um entertain a motion for adjournment I'll make a motion that.

E

We adjourn, second, all in favor all right, okay, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.